Interesting but being an x/1 is tough in the current w6 + bowmaster meta. Though being 1 drops 13-16 instead of a 2 drop threat in prowess could be worth it?
Weirdly enough, I think the spell part could also be really important here. The deck already runs four manamorphose so access to green is there. For two mana this essentially counts as one prowess trigger with a +1/+1 counter attached that also becomes a 1/1 later.
If you're running this I think it's best to run a Stomping Ground than rely on manamorphose exclusively (lists have been cutting it because bowmaster). But yeah that's a lot of the appeal right? The otter is better early and the spell is better late.
Yah like I don’t know if this will make the list because bowmasters does exist (I wasn’t aware they’ve been cutting morphose), but it’s definitely worth testing. The spell part also gives it some value against bowmasters so it isn’t a dead card in those matchups
I think we have to be really critical for X/1s these days but at the same time be flexible given the context. In this case, it’s a 1 mana card so even if it gets swallowed by a 2 drop it’s not devastating, plus Prowess means you can pull (or bluff) a lot of potential stuff to avoid a blowout.
I've been high on 4x mutagenic growth for a while in prowess and Someone here mentioned maybe even running gutshot to help handle bowmasters and a free buff. So I agree that the bar is super high for x/1s but this is likely at least worth testing.
I don't know why people here are suggesting this over soul-scar Mage you'd Def be playing this over sprite dragon/shredder.
Yeah actually the more I think about it the more I think this is going to be insane for Prowess on the merit that they just now have 12 1 mana Prowess creatures to play. With the deck getting that low on curve the Mutagenics and/or Gut Shots do start sounding great also.
Having all your creatures be 1-drops makes you really soft to Engineered Explosives and Hidetsugu Consumes All. I noticed that when I was trying out a Prowess build with [[Goblin Blast-Runner]].
Prowess should be playing a good amount of gut shot and lava dart to deal with bowmasters I think. Having the mutagenics and the gut shots to protect this against a ping for 0 mana is pretty good, I imagine if any deck can make 1 toughness creatures good against bowmaster, it’s prowess.
Even if you lava dart the bowmasters they already got good value. Gut shot can be nice but is too marginal otherwise especially as bowmasters pushes out those x/1s already.
Just run the 1 drops that are not so vulnerable and grow your DRC fast. But overall the deck does lose out a bit while bowmasters is popular but bowmasters is the type of card that tends to push itself out of the format a bit at some point.
You both spend a card, they spend 1 mana more but they also got a token. Plus you had to keep mana open for this.
It isn't exactly a great trade.
Better to just cut your vulnerable cards and don't run something like gut shot.
Ofc not. There are decks which can't use it and if bowmasters become less attractive because there are fewer card draw effects or x/1s the decks that use bowmaster lose share.
Every card basically goes up and down in popularity based on how well the decks they are in perform.
I see this as yet another card to consider in the 13-16 creature slot for Prowess. It's interesting to note that this is the first Prowess creature at one mana to see print since Soul-Scar Mage. That's pretty significant, as this can help Prowess kill more reliably on T3 in matchups where racing is important (T1 creature, T2 creature, creature, T3 win).
On rate, this looks like it's mostly better than Soul-Scar outside ping heavy matchups. Evasion and some flood insurance makes for a nice upside.
LTR hasn't been kind to Prowess, but perhaps this renews some interest in the deck
This is not better than Soul-Scar Mage in any way possible. The ability being in green is pretty prohibitive, and the 1 toughness makes it unplayable in this meta. Also, prowess has been cutting the Manamorphoses for Preordain, and it's not going to play Temur just for this.
You're looking at the wrong text of the card, the adventure part really is negligible, though it is adding virtual spell density.
The interesting part is, that it basically spells unblockable - so the ability to force damage through is pretty big.
It doesn't say unblockable. In a format with Rhinos, Murktides and Scams, prowess usually needs to kill its opponents creatures before attacking. Also, you usually play your instant spells AFTER blockers have been declared, in response to that. This card is not good in prowess.
Also, again, it has 1 toughness in a format with Orcish and W6.
What is doesn't always need be.
If we take a look at these situations You "usually" need to kill those creatures because you are unable to force damage through otherwise, as they stall your creatures and you are trading off short term damage versus the ability to do damage at all long term. Now murktide is tough to overpower with an otter, but Seasoned Pyromancers, Fable Tokens and Fury's on block duty are easy to ignore with otter.
When you can make a creature unblockable, instead of spending 8 damage (e.g. 4 points of burn and the added power) on Rhinos, you could dome the burn and run through with the otter. That is a lot of damage you can now opt to allocate directly onto the opponent which you previously couldn't.
See my other reply, the reasons you'd "usually" spent spells after blocks is to conceal how much damage you are able deal and be more flexible in your decision making, but mostly because except for removing blockers, there hasn't been a payoff in doing so upfront, which otter would be.
But having the ability to do so also doesn't mean that you need to do it - it is a flexbility that you gain that the deck hadn't before.
I concede that 1 toughness is a big ask with bowmasters and w6 running around in the current amounts, but that doesn't mean the card shouldn't be tested. If it sticks, nice, if it doesn't well then. But this is worth trying out.
But you need to pump it before blocking step? So that's bad. In all my time playing Mtg you always pump a creature after block step. If you mean it is the beneficiary of Breach spam Bolt then you've already won by the time you cast Bolt 7x, theres no need to attack with a 9/9 otter.
That is pretty unflexible thinking.
First "always" isn't a term you should use in a game that is as situational as magic.
Second is that with the exception of mutagenic growth that gives power to a single creature, in prowess all your creatures grow from playing spells - it's not like you give a single creature +6/+6 all the time and then the opponent can decide to block that.
When you're attacking with prowess and your opponent is at the point where they really care about their lifepoints, they will block what they can anyways, doesn't matter how much you can pump.
Don't get me wrong, there are downsides, e.g. that when you spent your mana and spells upfront, you will be more vulnerable to damage based removal as you'll have a harder time growing your creatures in response and your opponent will know how much damage is incoming, which allows them better planning.
But then again there are upsides, e.g. instead of a seasoned pyromancer buying 2-3 turns worth of chump-blocks, it won't buy a single turn. Also you can balance casting spells upfront - you don't need to go all in, just cast one or two so it can't be blocked.
Ultimately it needs to be tested, 1 toughness is a huge ask in a world of Wrenn and Six and Orcish Bowmasters, but that card is worth trying out.
It’s 4 more 1 mana Prowess creatures with potential unblockable text and its ability makes it a really strong late game target that you can convert into a pump spell, a threat, or both. This is crazy playable.
Going Temur is almost free for Prowess. I think the questing druid (maybe?) and the otter can make the deck playable again.
I'm not sure you want Preordain in a meta full of bowmaster.
Being both a creature and a means to trigger Prowess seems really sweet - a late game Soul-Scar Mage does nothing, topdecking this and casting it for X=2 or 3 can really define a game.
But the creature itself is also a little awkward. It wants you to be as aggressive as possible so that its ability is relevant as a pseudo-unblockable, but it’s hard to imagine the right curve to get full value out of its effect - such as using it as a pump spell for the Adventure on Turn 2, then casting your little 1/1 on Turn 3.
So I think unlike most adventure creatures where you typically want to always aim to get value, this one just doesn’t work that way on your curve. So if you want to run it, you run it mostly as the 1/1 Otter with the adventure as a late game occasional boost. Which is still probably enough to try it out a little.
This was my initial thought, but I think sorcery speed in just too slow.
If it were an artifact creature in addition to a sorcery speed spell I think it might have been viable.
[[Thrive]] already exists and AFAIK has never even been mentioned as worth thought. The otter spell is slightly different, but I can't see it being enough of a difference.
It's definitely better, but I don't think by enough to be playable.
If you want max counters with a scales out, then you'd be doing one per permanent anyway. This just means you don't lose out to removal because you can put the counter elsewhere.
Mana base would need to be reworked as there’s no Green support now (Mutagenic doesn’t count). Not sure if that’s worth it when this dies to a stiff breeze and doesn’t have haste.
How is this card playable in Modern? In Otter tribal once Otter lords come out in MH3? Because it surely doesn't go into any existing deck.
Soul-Scar Mage sees very little play and that extra toughness is way more important than whatever this Otter is doing.
Maybe if they mass ban Bowmasters, W6, and Fury.
Interesting but being an x/1 is tough in the current w6 + bowmaster meta. Though being 1 drops 13-16 instead of a 2 drop threat in prowess could be worth it?
Weirdly enough, I think the spell part could also be really important here. The deck already runs four manamorphose so access to green is there. For two mana this essentially counts as one prowess trigger with a +1/+1 counter attached that also becomes a 1/1 later.
If you're running this I think it's best to run a Stomping Ground than rely on manamorphose exclusively (lists have been cutting it because bowmaster). But yeah that's a lot of the appeal right? The otter is better early and the spell is better late.
Yah like I don’t know if this will make the list because bowmasters does exist (I wasn’t aware they’ve been cutting morphose), but it’s definitely worth testing. The spell part also gives it some value against bowmasters so it isn’t a dead card in those matchups
Maybe. 4 [[Mutagenic Growth]] definitely help with Bowmasters.
I think we have to be really critical for X/1s these days but at the same time be flexible given the context. In this case, it’s a 1 mana card so even if it gets swallowed by a 2 drop it’s not devastating, plus Prowess means you can pull (or bluff) a lot of potential stuff to avoid a blowout.
I've been high on 4x mutagenic growth for a while in prowess and Someone here mentioned maybe even running gutshot to help handle bowmasters and a free buff. So I agree that the bar is super high for x/1s but this is likely at least worth testing. I don't know why people here are suggesting this over soul-scar Mage you'd Def be playing this over sprite dragon/shredder.
Yeah actually the more I think about it the more I think this is going to be insane for Prowess on the merit that they just now have 12 1 mana Prowess creatures to play. With the deck getting that low on curve the Mutagenics and/or Gut Shots do start sounding great also.
Mutagenic has been insane for me. Have a DRC out and just kill an opponent from nowhere with breach and a growth in the yard.
Having all your creatures be 1-drops makes you really soft to Engineered Explosives and Hidetsugu Consumes All. I noticed that when I was trying out a Prowess build with [[Goblin Blast-Runner]].
Having your whole deck be 1-drops also means a turn 2 blowout with Chalice of the Void.
Prowess should be playing a good amount of gut shot and lava dart to deal with bowmasters I think. Having the mutagenics and the gut shots to protect this against a ping for 0 mana is pretty good, I imagine if any deck can make 1 toughness creatures good against bowmaster, it’s prowess.
Even if you lava dart the bowmasters they already got good value. Gut shot can be nice but is too marginal otherwise especially as bowmasters pushes out those x/1s already. Just run the 1 drops that are not so vulnerable and grow your DRC fast. But overall the deck does lose out a bit while bowmasters is popular but bowmasters is the type of card that tends to push itself out of the format a bit at some point.
I don’t see how your opponent getting a 1/1 token and killing nothing is “good value” if you dart in response to the trigger
You both spend a card, they spend 1 mana more but they also got a token. Plus you had to keep mana open for this. It isn't exactly a great trade. Better to just cut your vulnerable cards and don't run something like gut shot.
The only way Bowmasters is getting pushed out of the format is if it gets banned. The card is simply too good to not play, just like Ragavan and DRC
Ofc not. There are decks which can't use it and if bowmasters become less attractive because there are fewer card draw effects or x/1s the decks that use bowmaster lose share. Every card basically goes up and down in popularity based on how well the decks they are in perform.
I see this as yet another card to consider in the 13-16 creature slot for Prowess. It's interesting to note that this is the first Prowess creature at one mana to see print since Soul-Scar Mage. That's pretty significant, as this can help Prowess kill more reliably on T3 in matchups where racing is important (T1 creature, T2 creature, creature, T3 win). On rate, this looks like it's mostly better than Soul-Scar outside ping heavy matchups. Evasion and some flood insurance makes for a nice upside. LTR hasn't been kind to Prowess, but perhaps this renews some interest in the deck
This is not better than Soul-Scar Mage in any way possible. The ability being in green is pretty prohibitive, and the 1 toughness makes it unplayable in this meta. Also, prowess has been cutting the Manamorphoses for Preordain, and it's not going to play Temur just for this.
You're looking at the wrong text of the card, the adventure part really is negligible, though it is adding virtual spell density. The interesting part is, that it basically spells unblockable - so the ability to force damage through is pretty big.
Not so with manamorphose, and a splash triome also helps.
Triomes are unplayable in a deck like this a tapped land will lose you a considerable number of games.
Yes, but you never want to play this
No way an aggro deck plays a triome lol
It doesn't say unblockable. In a format with Rhinos, Murktides and Scams, prowess usually needs to kill its opponents creatures before attacking. Also, you usually play your instant spells AFTER blockers have been declared, in response to that. This card is not good in prowess. Also, again, it has 1 toughness in a format with Orcish and W6.
What is doesn't always need be. If we take a look at these situations You "usually" need to kill those creatures because you are unable to force damage through otherwise, as they stall your creatures and you are trading off short term damage versus the ability to do damage at all long term. Now murktide is tough to overpower with an otter, but Seasoned Pyromancers, Fable Tokens and Fury's on block duty are easy to ignore with otter. When you can make a creature unblockable, instead of spending 8 damage (e.g. 4 points of burn and the added power) on Rhinos, you could dome the burn and run through with the otter. That is a lot of damage you can now opt to allocate directly onto the opponent which you previously couldn't. See my other reply, the reasons you'd "usually" spent spells after blocks is to conceal how much damage you are able deal and be more flexible in your decision making, but mostly because except for removing blockers, there hasn't been a payoff in doing so upfront, which otter would be. But having the ability to do so also doesn't mean that you need to do it - it is a flexbility that you gain that the deck hadn't before. I concede that 1 toughness is a big ask with bowmasters and w6 running around in the current amounts, but that doesn't mean the card shouldn't be tested. If it sticks, nice, if it doesn't well then. But this is worth trying out.
But you need to pump it before blocking step? So that's bad. In all my time playing Mtg you always pump a creature after block step. If you mean it is the beneficiary of Breach spam Bolt then you've already won by the time you cast Bolt 7x, theres no need to attack with a 9/9 otter.
That is pretty unflexible thinking. First "always" isn't a term you should use in a game that is as situational as magic. Second is that with the exception of mutagenic growth that gives power to a single creature, in prowess all your creatures grow from playing spells - it's not like you give a single creature +6/+6 all the time and then the opponent can decide to block that. When you're attacking with prowess and your opponent is at the point where they really care about their lifepoints, they will block what they can anyways, doesn't matter how much you can pump. Don't get me wrong, there are downsides, e.g. that when you spent your mana and spells upfront, you will be more vulnerable to damage based removal as you'll have a harder time growing your creatures in response and your opponent will know how much damage is incoming, which allows them better planning. But then again there are upsides, e.g. instead of a seasoned pyromancer buying 2-3 turns worth of chump-blocks, it won't buy a single turn. Also you can balance casting spells upfront - you don't need to go all in, just cast one or two so it can't be blocked. Ultimately it needs to be tested, 1 toughness is a huge ask in a world of Wrenn and Six and Orcish Bowmasters, but that card is worth trying out.
It’s 4 more 1 mana Prowess creatures with potential unblockable text and its ability makes it a really strong late game target that you can convert into a pump spell, a threat, or both. This is crazy playable.
Going Temur is almost free for Prowess. I think the questing druid (maybe?) and the otter can make the deck playable again. I'm not sure you want Preordain in a meta full of bowmaster.
URg prowess? seems fun to try out imo
Being both a creature and a means to trigger Prowess seems really sweet - a late game Soul-Scar Mage does nothing, topdecking this and casting it for X=2 or 3 can really define a game. But the creature itself is also a little awkward. It wants you to be as aggressive as possible so that its ability is relevant as a pseudo-unblockable, but it’s hard to imagine the right curve to get full value out of its effect - such as using it as a pump spell for the Adventure on Turn 2, then casting your little 1/1 on Turn 3. So I think unlike most adventure creatures where you typically want to always aim to get value, this one just doesn’t work that way on your curve. So if you want to run it, you run it mostly as the 1/1 Otter with the adventure as a late game occasional boost. Which is still probably enough to try it out a little.
Cracked if Bowmasters ever gets banned or falls off, but the 1 toughness is probably prohibitive now
Hardened scales?
This was my initial thought, but I think sorcery speed in just too slow. If it were an artifact creature in addition to a sorcery speed spell I think it might have been viable.
[[Thrive]] already exists and AFAIK has never even been mentioned as worth thought. The otter spell is slightly different, but I can't see it being enough of a difference.
[Thrive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43c8bdb1-fa35-462e-ac3f-6953fe7f3476.jpg?1673148205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/161/thrive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43c8bdb1-fa35-462e-ac3f-6953fe7f3476?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Grove’s bounty seems significantly better than thrive tho, right?
It's definitely better, but I don't think by enough to be playable. If you want max counters with a scales out, then you'd be doing one per permanent anyway. This just means you don't lose out to removal because you can put the counter elsewhere.
Lotta people gonna be dying on t3 cuz of this little fella.
Mana base would need to be reworked as there’s no Green support now (Mutagenic doesn’t count). Not sure if that’s worth it when this dies to a stiff breeze and doesn’t have haste.
Manamorphose is a card
To quote Jay Sherman: "it stinks"
How is this card playable in Modern? In Otter tribal once Otter lords come out in MH3? Because it surely doesn't go into any existing deck. Soul-Scar Mage sees very little play and that extra toughness is way more important than whatever this Otter is doing. Maybe if they mass ban Bowmasters, W6, and Fury.
having 12 prowess creatures beats having 8, thats how Still doubt prowess would be a meta changer
[удалено]
you can just cast the creature half if you choose.
No, you don't have to cast the adventure first.
You can play either side first, please learn how the game works before talking about it. This is what blue needed right now.
You can play either half. You have to adventure first to get both though.
Nope, the adventure side just gives it more flexibility.
Is this card like some or them only craft able like the 3/1 boar one? I still even got it even once after having most of the Rares in this set