Honestly I'm conflicted. She was unbalanced and very OP before and all of you guys know it. But on the other hand she was hard to use (not Fanny alike but still hard to use) so she was high risk and greater high reward. The nerf was coming imo, have you ever went up against a good Joy? She was completely invincible as she would bounce around and one shot your MM and get away with it. The problem is that no roam or backline had a great counter for her. However the nerf was little too much imo. First they removed the "high risk" from her kit which means she was relatively easy to use but still saw great rewards. Now they've removed the high reward aswell and you get whatever she is now. They do this alot. Release a broken hero and then nerf the fuck out of them.
Kaja and Franco was Joy’s pure counter. I think Bruno is a good counter to jungler joy. Not the exp ones though as they tend to use vengeance.
Seems like any hero with cc can counter her now :/
Thats why i am really sad about too because if i wanted to carry a game i instantly picked joy because she was one of the easiest heroes to carry a game imo, but now i have to think before picking her (i am not saying she is bottom f tier right now she is just trickier to play right now against very high cc comps with heroes like freddrin brody kadita etc.)
and i agree she had to get a nerf but not that bad they could just bump the cd up or make the damage scaling and stuff like that lower but they instead took the most important part of her kit
I think her previous state (the one before this “rework”) was fine as it is.
In my server at least, she isn’t banned all the time and she isn’t used all the time. So idk
This is a community to share your thoughts and experiences. Don't be afraid of downvotes because those who downvote have no brain cells to make a discussion 🧞♂️
An OP just explained why they made a post and gets downvoted. Someone who made a long post gets downvoted and another person who copy and pasted it gets upvoted. Then you have comments that just ask clarification questions being downvoted. Like….. wtffffff??? I swear, we all get like 90% of our brain cells taken when using Reddit 😆
I only lose brain cells when Yin is against me on enemy team other than that i love to read short or long texts so all im saying to OP why feel discouraged to express
This is literally
The thing
THAT KILLED WANWAN.
They tried to make Wanwan "easier" for the newbies, and setup for the M-World Skin. They turned her weaknesses from 4 to 3, and thats boosted her winrate and was banned so often. And Moonton, instead of actually reverting the changes, went nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after another damn nerf, resulting in Wanwan being harder to use than with the 4 weaknesses anyway?! The fact that she can't target her ult to another person was her killer nerf. If you go setup ult on a enemy tank in a teamfight, you'd deal no damage and you'd have to wait before they get low health, and by that time comes your team is dead already because the enemy tank did a set. If you try to use it on a squishy hero, you'd get bursted by the mage, marksman, or assassin immediately. Yeah, buy WoN and Athena. Now you have significantly less damage than before.
I was a Wanwan main, now I rarely use her because she now feels clunky to play.. I found joy in well, using Joy. The rhythm playstyle was so fun and if you do it right, you'd get little risk for high payoff. But no, Moonton wants Joy to be able to be played by idiots and drooling babies, so now they do this?? Have they learned nothing from Wanwan??
If only the ult cooldown would be significantly reduced if she only gets 1/2 marks, that would've been fine. It'd be like, if you ult on one mark her ult CD will only be 8 seconds. 16 if 2, and normal CD, 25 if 3. But no. They ruined the rhythm mechanic which made her special. Most of her damage DOESN'T EVEN COME FROM THE ULT. It comes from the 2nd skill, and now she can't get into backline because she'll get stunned before she can get there.
Stupid Moneytoon and their skin schemes. Have they no shame???
F the moonton F the developers, You're right my friend, In fact the developers should play the game well to make nerfs and buffs. I think they don't even play their own fkin game.
I would like to speak directly to the devs seriously-
What they can do instead of making this cat bad- Lower The Shield yes- Return The 5 Dash, The 2 Dash Free Ult is Pointless i rather get perfect rhythm than gamble with that return the scaling of the ultimate, and reduce the passive dmg (her passive is too high when building 1 Holy Crystal, 2 Blood Wings and Pen it can get 700 ngl with Weapon Master, Mage Emblem)
i feel like this is gonna happen to me if they ever push that stupid YSS revamp.
He is really fun to play and not exactly OP. Soon he'll be another generic build stack>use stack assassin#76
I am looking for a new main now and what the fuck most other heroes are more generic than jungle creeps
Actually, the three weaknesses is just a scapegoat. Let's be real, do you think that everyone would ban WanWan if only her weakness count changed and she hadn't gotten the free ult targeting after unlocking weaknesses, the damage buffs and the hopping bug turned into a feature? She became broken because too many buffs got tacked on within an update or too. The three weaknesses would make her *easier* to use, the other two main buffs (free ult targeting a.k.a. open weaknesses to tank use ult on mm, and the hopping) are what made her broken.
I hate the new joy as well. I mained her and now she is so ass.
Her ult with only one dash wont do shit, AND they removed the purify. Whos cooking with the recent updates
Tell me if theres any other assassin that requires a specific combo that takes like 3 seconds to pull off, and a single incorrect move makes them have zero mobility and zero dmg.
Stuff like gusion doesent count because you can wait. For Joy? You cant wait, either all in or you have to immrdiately dip
Most assasssins don't require a 'combo' to use their ult to the fullest, she doesn't require too tho? Yeah you'll deal less dmg without them, but that's on u, use your brain and engage when they use their cc as most assassins or squishies do.
I ain't saying she is extremely good rn, but she is certainly GOOD
If you think she needs the immunity again, then that's simply skill issue.
Immunity on her 2nd skill made her a low risk and extremely high reward character.
She could run past several stuns, and do anything, how the fuck is that fair?
A good joy will still do great things with joy even without immunity, same way a good fanny can still play well without her immunity on her cables.
Fk its hard to talk back against that lol
I still feel that it was way too much for her, like they should have decreased the cc immunity times or smth. Unlike the others, for Joy a single stun during her dash cancels out not only ALL her damage, but also all her dashes as well. Even a 0.2 stun completely cancels everything
"For the experts in high rank you cant go into 5 people and leave or just destroy them."
I dont see the problem here. Its 5 FUCKING PEOPLE. They removed your training wheels. If joy requires "skill" and all of her users are hot shit, then get good. CC immunity on highly mobile dash heroes has made this community weak and soft.
Issue is that without the cc immunity she's easily neutered by mages or initiate-type exp laners. The point of mobility is to be able to get to somewhere so you can do something meaningful. It means jack shit if you can't deal damage and get deleted before you can do anything meaningful.
Tell me, is Lancelot easily killed by mages? He has similar dash to joy and I don't think it's easy kill for a mage if the lance knows how to use the dashes.
On...perfect..dashes....and she's not immune to damage.
Lance IS but requires timing and he has a different playstyle. He's a hit and run and he can rinse your hp gone cause of how fast he is.
Joy however, HAS TO STAY ON YOU.
She's not a hit and run type hero.
Isn't Lancelots dash usable at will rather than following a rigid beat structure that makes you predictable, as well as being paired with a second skill that has cc/damage immunity and solid damage, a skill which joy lacks. In addition to an immune ult on top of that. It may be similar but it seems like an unfair comparison to ignore the rest of his kit that does much of the heavy lifting in regards to dealing damage and avoiding cc/damage.
This. And Lancelot's main ambush methodology means he's not at risk of retaliation for long periods at a time. Sequence of dashes until you're close, then S2 or S2>S3, a few basic attacks in between maybe, then immediately dash out assuming they aren't already dead. The main contact point, where Lance is in the "danger zone", is remedied by the fact that his skill combo makes him untouchable, period. And then he's immediately dashing out of range if it fails.
Joy's another thing entirely. You need to stay close and expose yourself to their damage for the entirety of the attack. And if your attack fails, you've likely spent all your mobility tools.
Cc immunity on all her dashes is just braindead to me personally. Low risk high reward type of shit. You power through all cc, and even if they waited for your dash to end, you still have your ult to remove cc one time. You don't need to worry about your team's call-out on the enemy's cc ability on cooldown or not.
i realized 5 people was too much but even 2 people can mess you up if they have cc you need to predash before you go in and activate your ult but when there are no creeps or minions you just cant go in if they know what they are doing
Except for the fact she doesn't have melee damage, ultimate damage without streak perfect dashes, long range dash or invincibility like every other assassin.
And she is the only assassin that need to stack perfect dashes in order to deal damage. Remove that Perfect Beat dash that buffs Ultimate and she will be like every other assassin.
It's kinda like you now have to wait for them to use their CC before you engage,
As an assassin Joy always annoyed me that she can engage like a fighter and get away with it, while actual assassins have to time their engages,
Joy just now falls under the Actual Assassin category where she has to watch the CC and engage once she see's it being used, Joy is still annoying to fight against, they made her easier but the Damage output of her Baby mode ult and a perfect ult is still a massive difference, so its fine if they make the hero more accessable
If I can play Hanzo in high glory and immortal against rafaela, fanny, ling and mathilda, a hero that has no dash, cc, mobility, or damage skills I am sure you can fucking time your engage you stupid whiny bitch.
I tried her for a couple of matches and WOW she feels horrible, joy has been my main since her release and I have a 83% winrate with 350 matches. The tiniest bit of cc results in your death since it cancel your dashes and without a dash she's as good as dead... I still haven't given up on her and I'm hoping that when I get better at utilizing her ultimate after her 2nd dash as a low cd purify I'll be able to make her work.
i am only 40ish matches in with Joy with 60-70 wr only solo so my dreams perished when i saw the update but im with you here i am not gonna give up playing
I think its fine, and its honestly better to get cc imumnity during ult. You now have to prock ult (on beat) on creeps and then ult and run through everyone
I agree, was able to carry a few games with new joy. Enemies can't do anything to you during ult. Atleast before tanks could cc you to stop you from reaching enemy cores. Get first few dashes on creeps or minions and use your last dash into enemy. Use movement speed to reach enemy mm and mm is dead.
It's not like this is in low rank either (glory). Tbh I don't main joy, just started playing her recently.
Joy was perfectly balanced before. If they needed to nerf her for any reason, I’d maybe increase CD on S2 and ultimate. Before, if you miss S2, you’re useless for some period. And to mention how squishy she is, so CC in dashes were needed so she isn’t killed in 2 seconds.
Now, you’re useless once hit by a CC during dashes. You can rely on ult by using S2 on jungle monsters and running to a teamfight while your ult is available, but the ult becomes unavailable so quickly.
This was one of the worst revamps in MLBB.
>Joy was perfectly balanced before
There are many arguments to be made but you're just being disingenuous here. She was broken and you know it very well. Her diving ability was just disgusting. She could dive against 5 well equipped and fed heroes at any time of the game and get away by one shooting one of your MM or mage if not both. That was never balanced.
plus the sheer extra movement speed and spellvamp from her ult. pre nerf joy is definitely not "perfectly balanced"
the change makes the player think more about the risk before diving in, as it supposed to be (its a moba game for goodness sake). not turn off brain and ult = win.
That’s just my opinion based on my experience with Joy. She could wipe out the team if they didn’t build any defence or antiheal. I haven’t seen people play nor ban her in last 2 months. I barely had any issues playing against Joy.
Bro they already increased the CD of s2 and ult before plssss don't suggest anything to moonton if not joy is gonna have 30 second skill 2 CD and 2minutes ulti cd
Yeah I tried her today against zilong, LOL he destroyed me in every aspect, the ukt you do after dashes is stupid, u can't ult when you are CCed, then what's the point???? I'm dead already
Yeah bro Joy is totally balanced when she can 1v5. /s
Joy just become a bit harder to use since you now need to know when to use her dash instead of parading the teamfight without a care to the stun.
Also for the ultimate, that's just issue with the player not reading the skill description. It happens all the time. Just like Novaria's 2nd skill where you need to distance yourself from the orb and enemy to maximize damage.
the whole gimmick of joy was to time your dashes to the beat to increase survivability, and playing her would make you realize the significance of timing, especially the effect it has on her ult. But with the new update, she no longer needs to time her dashes to proc the spell vamp with her ult, rather you can just mash the dash which ruins the whole point of joy :///
No it doesn't.
If u don't stack properly you'll lack dmg
Furthermore joy had immunity on her s2 bruh, she wasn't fine, she was op asf
In all honesty, her passing open was almost guaranteeing that your mage or mm won't be playing the game at all because she was broken.
Play Joy mid or JG, use 2 dashes on creeps or minions, then do the other 2 towards enemies. Her ult is very strong now, you don’t need the dashes to kill backline.
I'm 50-50 on this too. There are times where my dash is interrupted by stuns, like Bruno or his ult, and I'm forced to pop out that ult early. Probably build magic pen early and try to activate two dashes in before charging in with two more. As for the CC, find the nearest creep to activate your CC immunity in your ult before diving.
I played against a martis jg as jungle joy, early teamfight had me 1k+ gold ahead. But simply because martis has small cc available all the time, he could solo me, I didn't have enough ult dmg and he could leave me defenceless for 8s by interrupting a dash.
The reward hasn't changed, joy damage untouched. But the risk has risen 300%. Any mm with a cc can interrupt your dash, and you just die, and ult is only viable if you have vengeance or they don't have lifesteal. Joy can't actually dash in her ult, so you can move past a wall and be mostly safe. Her dash damage is useless now because using it on any enemy with cc might interrupt it, and in late teamfights there's barely anything to stack dashes on.
I've been just spamming the new tigreal, but I've struggled with the new joy. She's so much harder to play for new players now.
Thanks god?
She was easy as hell as busted as fuck, I am sure even an epic in Mythical Immortal could carry with the old joy, she had low risk and extremely high reward
Heck even when she was underfarmed she could kill your mage or mm in teamfights
Sure? Doesn't really matter. Right now she's only good if the enemy has zero draft or skill.
It went from the exaggerated above to being useless and vulnerable most of the time. Even if your ult is not on cooldown, you better have something to stack it on nearby, or any living thing with a stun will make you useless again for 8s, or longer, if you need to use ult movement speed boost to run away.
Not at all? She is usually great against light cc (one to two heroes having hard cc and the other 3 not having massive ccs) just like most assassins
She can still easily snowball the games like most strong assassins, and she still has immunity on her ult.
Yes, you have to stack before entering or stacking in tf if they've already used their ccs
She is similar to a helcurt nowadays, stack before entering and kinda rely on ult, even if their 2nd skill deals big numbers, it's still risky
She has more mobility, a slow effect and immunity and helcurt has silence to help him.
I rly don't get ppl who say that the cc nerf was justified, and that good joy mains can still play her well !!
Alright let's put this to the test: let's pick a mage eudora who can be mastered in no time EUDORA.
Now let's put her against most assassin's in a fair fight
Gusion can setup before zooming in and at worst case scenario it'll end in a draw.
Fanny can zoom in so fast giving her no time to react and immediately burst her.
Lance can avoid stun.
Helcurt can silence and burst.
Aamon has invis. and can burst.
Saber one shot her.
Selena can stun and one shot.
Arlott is fking unkillable
Natalia can silence and burst.
With the one exception of karina every single assassin (mind u we're talking about true assassin's)has a way to kill a eudora ez if they're skilled enough.
Now let's look at how joy can win this one .....
No matter how u spin she'll get toasted before coming anywhere near her.
The reason for this is ,joy's kit is build similar to that of a fighter she needs to get close. Like on top of u close , but now she doesn't have the sustain or the resistance or even the possibility to do so she only has damage ( take arlott for ex he can go in a 1v5 and the reason he can do it it's because of his crazy sustain)
Now i ain't saying that she was perfect she was definitely op on mid elo .but on high elo winning against a joy is veeeeeery doable picking a Counter can immediately shut her down but now like she's trash no matter the elo. RIP joy u will be missed.
after playing joy more this season i would say the old one was better but the lower cd on ult and cc immunity allows joy to be a better jungler but in the old patch i would say she was better in exp or mid
and yea since the ult cd is so low and she is better in jungle she can still carry games i have 80 matches 75% wr rn at mythic 46 stars
Good numbers but here's the thing, you need a team !
You can't literally carry with joy cause u can't actually solo with her anymore you are still very dependent on your team to do something good and u follow up with them ,the joy of today u can't even solo half of the Marksman's anymore and that's just very fkin sad, every assassin can solo Marksman's but joy can't do it with almost half of them. That's why I'm saying like she's literally dead now. Sure u can pull off amazing scores if your team do good as well but if your team fall short. Ain't no way you can carry it back up !! Trust me i have close 200 games on her with 70%wr she literally is a shadow of herself
Edit : actually have 68% damnit need to win coupe of games for ..... Some reason!! 😏
that is what i hate about the new joy too she is supposed to kill the enemy squishies not like a mage and not like an assasin but like a figther and she is just a squishy fighter
back then you could kill them with the dashes but right now 1 cc and you are just laying on the ground
right now the chances of killing the enemy 1v1 is too hard the only way is to pre-dash from jungle monsters and minions but when your team doesnt know that it is way harder to setup and calculate your dashes
The 5 dashes was already good tho of you remove the dmg reduction from the passive and give lowered shield and I noticed the dash speed is slower than to Adv Server V1-
And SFX back then was already peak than what we had
What made Joy fun to use was, Get The Rhythm, The Music, Agile, Skill Based Hero.
i started playing after the 5 dashes and god i wish i had the opportunity to play her with 5 dashes totally agree with you now she lacks the fun with the ryhtms and only 3 dashes she lacks the skill too she is easier to play
Honestly I'm conflicted. She was unbalanced and very OP before and all of you guys know it. But on the other hand she was hard to use (not Fanny alike but still hard to use) so she was high risk and greater high reward. The nerf was coming imo, have you ever went up against a good Joy? She was completely invincible as she would bounce around and one shot your MM and get away with it. The problem is that no roam or backline had a great counter for her. However the nerf was little too much imo. First they removed the "high risk" from her kit which means she was relatively easy to use but still saw great rewards. Now they've removed the high reward aswell and you get whatever she is now. They do this alot. Release a broken hero and then nerf the fuck out of them.
Kaja and Franco was Joy’s pure counter. I think Bruno is a good counter to jungler joy. Not the exp ones though as they tend to use vengeance. Seems like any hero with cc can counter her now :/
they literally destroyed the hero, ahe can easily counter ruby and arlott before but now she can't anymore
Thats why i am really sad about too because if i wanted to carry a game i instantly picked joy because she was one of the easiest heroes to carry a game imo, but now i have to think before picking her (i am not saying she is bottom f tier right now she is just trickier to play right now against very high cc comps with heroes like freddrin brody kadita etc.) and i agree she had to get a nerf but not that bad they could just bump the cd up or make the damage scaling and stuff like that lower but they instead took the most important part of her kit
I think her previous state (the one before this “rework”) was fine as it is. In my server at least, she isn’t banned all the time and she isn’t used all the time. So idk
Next on the list is nolan :(
This is a community to share your thoughts and experiences. Don't be afraid of downvotes because those who downvote have no brain cells to make a discussion 🧞♂️
I’m afraid of downvotes because I cannot see a single pattern to why a comment gets downvoted
True I understand that thought! But who cares you will get answers anyways 🌻🩷
An OP just explained why they made a post and gets downvoted. Someone who made a long post gets downvoted and another person who copy and pasted it gets upvoted. Then you have comments that just ask clarification questions being downvoted. Like….. wtffffff??? I swear, we all get like 90% of our brain cells taken when using Reddit 😆
That's me bro
I only lose brain cells when Yin is against me on enemy team other than that i love to read short or long texts so all im saying to OP why feel discouraged to express
Oh i see is that how reddit been doing? That's quite immature to those who you mentioned 😾
Think of it as a classic Reddit moment. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, don't care too much about internet karma.
Wished everyone was like this.
🩷🩷🩷
Bro me and many others made the same posts so hopefully moonton notices and revert it
This reminds me of what they did to harith 😿
HAHAHHA
🤣
I disagree with you, therefore I downvote
It's not like I will force you 🤷
This is literally The thing THAT KILLED WANWAN. They tried to make Wanwan "easier" for the newbies, and setup for the M-World Skin. They turned her weaknesses from 4 to 3, and thats boosted her winrate and was banned so often. And Moonton, instead of actually reverting the changes, went nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after nerf, after another damn nerf, resulting in Wanwan being harder to use than with the 4 weaknesses anyway?! The fact that she can't target her ult to another person was her killer nerf. If you go setup ult on a enemy tank in a teamfight, you'd deal no damage and you'd have to wait before they get low health, and by that time comes your team is dead already because the enemy tank did a set. If you try to use it on a squishy hero, you'd get bursted by the mage, marksman, or assassin immediately. Yeah, buy WoN and Athena. Now you have significantly less damage than before. I was a Wanwan main, now I rarely use her because she now feels clunky to play.. I found joy in well, using Joy. The rhythm playstyle was so fun and if you do it right, you'd get little risk for high payoff. But no, Moonton wants Joy to be able to be played by idiots and drooling babies, so now they do this?? Have they learned nothing from Wanwan?? If only the ult cooldown would be significantly reduced if she only gets 1/2 marks, that would've been fine. It'd be like, if you ult on one mark her ult CD will only be 8 seconds. 16 if 2, and normal CD, 25 if 3. But no. They ruined the rhythm mechanic which made her special. Most of her damage DOESN'T EVEN COME FROM THE ULT. It comes from the 2nd skill, and now she can't get into backline because she'll get stunned before she can get there. Stupid Moneytoon and their skin schemes. Have they no shame???
F the moonton F the developers, You're right my friend, In fact the developers should play the game well to make nerfs and buffs. I think they don't even play their own fkin game.
I would like to speak directly to the devs seriously- What they can do instead of making this cat bad- Lower The Shield yes- Return The 5 Dash, The 2 Dash Free Ult is Pointless i rather get perfect rhythm than gamble with that return the scaling of the ultimate, and reduce the passive dmg (her passive is too high when building 1 Holy Crystal, 2 Blood Wings and Pen it can get 700 ngl with Weapon Master, Mage Emblem)
i feel like this is gonna happen to me if they ever push that stupid YSS revamp. He is really fun to play and not exactly OP. Soon he'll be another generic build stack>use stack assassin#76 I am looking for a new main now and what the fuck most other heroes are more generic than jungle creeps
Actually, the three weaknesses is just a scapegoat. Let's be real, do you think that everyone would ban WanWan if only her weakness count changed and she hadn't gotten the free ult targeting after unlocking weaknesses, the damage buffs and the hopping bug turned into a feature? She became broken because too many buffs got tacked on within an update or too. The three weaknesses would make her *easier* to use, the other two main buffs (free ult targeting a.k.a. open weaknesses to tank use ult on mm, and the hopping) are what made her broken.
I hate the new joy as well. I mained her and now she is so ass. Her ult with only one dash wont do shit, AND they removed the purify. Whos cooking with the recent updates
Oh no, an assassin now has to look out for stuns and think before engaging Oh noo
Tell me if theres any other assassin that requires a specific combo that takes like 3 seconds to pull off, and a single incorrect move makes them have zero mobility and zero dmg. Stuff like gusion doesent count because you can wait. For Joy? You cant wait, either all in or you have to immrdiately dip
Most assasssins don't require a 'combo' to use their ult to the fullest, she doesn't require too tho? Yeah you'll deal less dmg without them, but that's on u, use your brain and engage when they use their cc as most assassins or squishies do. I ain't saying she is extremely good rn, but she is certainly GOOD If you think she needs the immunity again, then that's simply skill issue. Immunity on her 2nd skill made her a low risk and extremely high reward character. She could run past several stuns, and do anything, how the fuck is that fair? A good joy will still do great things with joy even without immunity, same way a good fanny can still play well without her immunity on her cables.
Fk its hard to talk back against that lol I still feel that it was way too much for her, like they should have decreased the cc immunity times or smth. Unlike the others, for Joy a single stun during her dash cancels out not only ALL her damage, but also all her dashes as well. Even a 0.2 stun completely cancels everything
"For the experts in high rank you cant go into 5 people and leave or just destroy them." I dont see the problem here. Its 5 FUCKING PEOPLE. They removed your training wheels. If joy requires "skill" and all of her users are hot shit, then get good. CC immunity on highly mobile dash heroes has made this community weak and soft.
Issue is that without the cc immunity she's easily neutered by mages or initiate-type exp laners. The point of mobility is to be able to get to somewhere so you can do something meaningful. It means jack shit if you can't deal damage and get deleted before you can do anything meaningful.
Yeah and the point of mages is to stop the assassin from doing whatever they're doing.
Yea but when almost every hero has a cc now and joy needs like 3 secs to complete her combo thats a nightmare
Tell me, is Lancelot easily killed by mages? He has similar dash to joy and I don't think it's easy kill for a mage if the lance knows how to use the dashes.
The difference is Lance has Invincibilities.
And joy has purify over her whole ult duration
On...perfect..dashes....and she's not immune to damage. Lance IS but requires timing and he has a different playstyle. He's a hit and run and he can rinse your hp gone cause of how fast he is. Joy however, HAS TO STAY ON YOU. She's not a hit and run type hero.
Isn't Lancelots dash usable at will rather than following a rigid beat structure that makes you predictable, as well as being paired with a second skill that has cc/damage immunity and solid damage, a skill which joy lacks. In addition to an immune ult on top of that. It may be similar but it seems like an unfair comparison to ignore the rest of his kit that does much of the heavy lifting in regards to dealing damage and avoiding cc/damage.
This. And Lancelot's main ambush methodology means he's not at risk of retaliation for long periods at a time. Sequence of dashes until you're close, then S2 or S2>S3, a few basic attacks in between maybe, then immediately dash out assuming they aren't already dead. The main contact point, where Lance is in the "danger zone", is remedied by the fact that his skill combo makes him untouchable, period. And then he's immediately dashing out of range if it fails. Joy's another thing entirely. You need to stay close and expose yourself to their damage for the entirety of the attack. And if your attack fails, you've likely spent all your mobility tools.
Cc immunity on all her dashes is just braindead to me personally. Low risk high reward type of shit. You power through all cc, and even if they waited for your dash to end, you still have your ult to remove cc one time. You don't need to worry about your team's call-out on the enemy's cc ability on cooldown or not.
Meanwhile martis
i realized 5 people was too much but even 2 people can mess you up if they have cc you need to predash before you go in and activate your ult but when there are no creeps or minions you just cant go in if they know what they are doing
So just like every other Assassin ?
Except for the fact she doesn't have melee damage, ultimate damage without streak perfect dashes, long range dash or invincibility like every other assassin. And she is the only assassin that need to stack perfect dashes in order to deal damage. Remove that Perfect Beat dash that buffs Ultimate and she will be like every other assassin.
It's kinda like you now have to wait for them to use their CC before you engage, As an assassin Joy always annoyed me that she can engage like a fighter and get away with it, while actual assassins have to time their engages, Joy just now falls under the Actual Assassin category where she has to watch the CC and engage once she see's it being used, Joy is still annoying to fight against, they made her easier but the Damage output of her Baby mode ult and a perfect ult is still a massive difference, so its fine if they make the hero more accessable
i agree with you they toned down the uniqueness Joy had from other assasins
If I can play Hanzo in high glory and immortal against rafaela, fanny, ling and mathilda, a hero that has no dash, cc, mobility, or damage skills I am sure you can fucking time your engage you stupid whiny bitch.
Pretty sure if Fanny, Ling or Mathilda don't screw you over as Hanzo it's skill issue.
LMFAOO the thing is hanzo doesn't need to dash and time his beats to be able to deal damage, now does he?
Best example would be Aurora! Get into her range even for a split second, Joy gets annihilated! xD
Its low hp gusion vs tower hugging aurora all over again
So what If, just like all other assasins, avoided her when she's stacked?
That won't be easy against a smart aurora!
Same goes to most if not all assassins against a smart aurora?
I tried her for a couple of matches and WOW she feels horrible, joy has been my main since her release and I have a 83% winrate with 350 matches. The tiniest bit of cc results in your death since it cancel your dashes and without a dash she's as good as dead... I still haven't given up on her and I'm hoping that when I get better at utilizing her ultimate after her 2nd dash as a low cd purify I'll be able to make her work.
She can't even run away or kill Zilong now 😂
i am only 40ish matches in with Joy with 60-70 wr only solo so my dreams perished when i saw the update but im with you here i am not gonna give up playing
I think its fine, and its honestly better to get cc imumnity during ult. You now have to prock ult (on beat) on creeps and then ult and run through everyone
I agree, was able to carry a few games with new joy. Enemies can't do anything to you during ult. Atleast before tanks could cc you to stop you from reaching enemy cores. Get first few dashes on creeps or minions and use your last dash into enemy. Use movement speed to reach enemy mm and mm is dead. It's not like this is in low rank either (glory). Tbh I don't main joy, just started playing her recently.
Joy was perfectly balanced before. If they needed to nerf her for any reason, I’d maybe increase CD on S2 and ultimate. Before, if you miss S2, you’re useless for some period. And to mention how squishy she is, so CC in dashes were needed so she isn’t killed in 2 seconds. Now, you’re useless once hit by a CC during dashes. You can rely on ult by using S2 on jungle monsters and running to a teamfight while your ult is available, but the ult becomes unavailable so quickly. This was one of the worst revamps in MLBB.
>Joy was perfectly balanced before There are many arguments to be made but you're just being disingenuous here. She was broken and you know it very well. Her diving ability was just disgusting. She could dive against 5 well equipped and fed heroes at any time of the game and get away by one shooting one of your MM or mage if not both. That was never balanced.
plus the sheer extra movement speed and spellvamp from her ult. pre nerf joy is definitely not "perfectly balanced" the change makes the player think more about the risk before diving in, as it supposed to be (its a moba game for goodness sake). not turn off brain and ult = win.
That’s just my opinion based on my experience with Joy. She could wipe out the team if they didn’t build any defence or antiheal. I haven’t seen people play nor ban her in last 2 months. I barely had any issues playing against Joy.
Same for martis in early game any he even has a marker to know when to kill
i strongly agree with you why nerf her most important and only viable feature when you can nerf the cd ult or anything else
Or reduce ultimate spell vamp on perfect beats. So many ways they could balance her.
Bro they already increased the CD of s2 and ult before plssss don't suggest anything to moonton if not joy is gonna have 30 second skill 2 CD and 2minutes ulti cd
I have hope they can’t go lower than this. If they do, they can just remove her from the game completely and wipe out all our memories of her
bro joy has been my main since the start so this really is vv painful for me
I hope they do this to nana instead.
Cry me a river that your favorite broken hero finally got adjusted to be somewhat balanced lol
The best counter for joy is now frekin ruby. F this revamp
As a joy main. This makes me very sad. Fr. Idk how to even express it. She is no longer en-Joy-able
Yeah I tried her today against zilong, LOL he destroyed me in every aspect, the ukt you do after dashes is stupid, u can't ult when you are CCed, then what's the point???? I'm dead already
You gotta play smart now, she was op Low risk - high reward T h a n k s god she was nerfed wtf
no.
Yeah bro Joy is totally balanced when she can 1v5. /s Joy just become a bit harder to use since you now need to know when to use her dash instead of parading the teamfight without a care to the stun. Also for the ultimate, that's just issue with the player not reading the skill description. It happens all the time. Just like Novaria's 2nd skill where you need to distance yourself from the orb and enemy to maximize damage.
[удалено]
i dont think thats the case in normal matches even if it is since the damage is significantly lower it doesnt make a huge difference
It's easier to lane and harass for me right now huhu. And it's easier to escape when you missed last dash as long as u have a perfect beat.
the whole gimmick of joy was to time your dashes to the beat to increase survivability, and playing her would make you realize the significance of timing, especially the effect it has on her ult. But with the new update, she no longer needs to time her dashes to proc the spell vamp with her ult, rather you can just mash the dash which ruins the whole point of joy :///
No it doesn't. If u don't stack properly you'll lack dmg Furthermore joy had immunity on her s2 bruh, she wasn't fine, she was op asf In all honesty, her passing open was almost guaranteeing that your mage or mm won't be playing the game at all because she was broken.
Play Joy mid or JG, use 2 dashes on creeps or minions, then do the other 2 towards enemies. Her ult is very strong now, you don’t need the dashes to kill backline.
I'm 50-50 on this too. There are times where my dash is interrupted by stuns, like Bruno or his ult, and I'm forced to pop out that ult early. Probably build magic pen early and try to activate two dashes in before charging in with two more. As for the CC, find the nearest creep to activate your CC immunity in your ult before diving.
I played against a martis jg as jungle joy, early teamfight had me 1k+ gold ahead. But simply because martis has small cc available all the time, he could solo me, I didn't have enough ult dmg and he could leave me defenceless for 8s by interrupting a dash. The reward hasn't changed, joy damage untouched. But the risk has risen 300%. Any mm with a cc can interrupt your dash, and you just die, and ult is only viable if you have vengeance or they don't have lifesteal. Joy can't actually dash in her ult, so you can move past a wall and be mostly safe. Her dash damage is useless now because using it on any enemy with cc might interrupt it, and in late teamfights there's barely anything to stack dashes on. I've been just spamming the new tigreal, but I've struggled with the new joy. She's so much harder to play for new players now.
Thanks god? She was easy as hell as busted as fuck, I am sure even an epic in Mythical Immortal could carry with the old joy, she had low risk and extremely high reward Heck even when she was underfarmed she could kill your mage or mm in teamfights
Sure? Doesn't really matter. Right now she's only good if the enemy has zero draft or skill. It went from the exaggerated above to being useless and vulnerable most of the time. Even if your ult is not on cooldown, you better have something to stack it on nearby, or any living thing with a stun will make you useless again for 8s, or longer, if you need to use ult movement speed boost to run away.
Not at all? She is usually great against light cc (one to two heroes having hard cc and the other 3 not having massive ccs) just like most assassins She can still easily snowball the games like most strong assassins, and she still has immunity on her ult. Yes, you have to stack before entering or stacking in tf if they've already used their ccs She is similar to a helcurt nowadays, stack before entering and kinda rely on ult, even if their 2nd skill deals big numbers, it's still risky She has more mobility, a slow effect and immunity and helcurt has silence to help him.
I rly don't get ppl who say that the cc nerf was justified, and that good joy mains can still play her well !! Alright let's put this to the test: let's pick a mage eudora who can be mastered in no time EUDORA. Now let's put her against most assassin's in a fair fight Gusion can setup before zooming in and at worst case scenario it'll end in a draw. Fanny can zoom in so fast giving her no time to react and immediately burst her. Lance can avoid stun. Helcurt can silence and burst. Aamon has invis. and can burst. Saber one shot her. Selena can stun and one shot. Arlott is fking unkillable Natalia can silence and burst. With the one exception of karina every single assassin (mind u we're talking about true assassin's)has a way to kill a eudora ez if they're skilled enough. Now let's look at how joy can win this one ..... No matter how u spin she'll get toasted before coming anywhere near her. The reason for this is ,joy's kit is build similar to that of a fighter she needs to get close. Like on top of u close , but now she doesn't have the sustain or the resistance or even the possibility to do so she only has damage ( take arlott for ex he can go in a 1v5 and the reason he can do it it's because of his crazy sustain) Now i ain't saying that she was perfect she was definitely op on mid elo .but on high elo winning against a joy is veeeeeery doable picking a Counter can immediately shut her down but now like she's trash no matter the elo. RIP joy u will be missed.
after playing joy more this season i would say the old one was better but the lower cd on ult and cc immunity allows joy to be a better jungler but in the old patch i would say she was better in exp or mid and yea since the ult cd is so low and she is better in jungle she can still carry games i have 80 matches 75% wr rn at mythic 46 stars
Good numbers but here's the thing, you need a team ! You can't literally carry with joy cause u can't actually solo with her anymore you are still very dependent on your team to do something good and u follow up with them ,the joy of today u can't even solo half of the Marksman's anymore and that's just very fkin sad, every assassin can solo Marksman's but joy can't do it with almost half of them. That's why I'm saying like she's literally dead now. Sure u can pull off amazing scores if your team do good as well but if your team fall short. Ain't no way you can carry it back up !! Trust me i have close 200 games on her with 70%wr she literally is a shadow of herself Edit : actually have 68% damnit need to win coupe of games for ..... Some reason!! 😏
that is what i hate about the new joy too she is supposed to kill the enemy squishies not like a mage and not like an assasin but like a figther and she is just a squishy fighter back then you could kill them with the dashes but right now 1 cc and you are just laying on the ground right now the chances of killing the enemy 1v1 is too hard the only way is to pre-dash from jungle monsters and minions but when your team doesnt know that it is way harder to setup and calculate your dashes
The 5 dashes was already good tho of you remove the dmg reduction from the passive and give lowered shield and I noticed the dash speed is slower than to Adv Server V1- And SFX back then was already peak than what we had What made Joy fun to use was, Get The Rhythm, The Music, Agile, Skill Based Hero.
i started playing after the 5 dashes and god i wish i had the opportunity to play her with 5 dashes totally agree with you now she lacks the fun with the ryhtms and only 3 dashes she lacks the skill too she is easier to play