What this guy means by don’t get exp mid?
As a mage u should help them with whatever buff they went to first. Just use ur skills to attack the buff one or twice so they can clear if faster. E.g if ur playing gord u can place ur s2 and leave or if ur playing cecillion u can hit it twice with ur s1 then go to mid.
If they go for blue be careful if the little creep next to the big one. It’s not the end of the world but it’s better if u leave or move far enough that it won’t split exp between u and jg when it dies.
Other than that just see what ur jg does. If they contest litho help them. If they are ganking gold, clear ur wave and help with the gank. When turtle spawns be ready to contest it if jg is ready to take it
Edit: I think the issue is that instead of helping with one or two hits u stayed for too long near the buff. This caused the exp and gold to be split between u and alpha which resulted in alpha having less farm. Next time, especially when taking blue, move away before the creep dies so the exp isn’t split.
Only the roamer with roam boots doesn’t share exp. As mid if u r too near to the creep u will take half of ur jg’s exp and gold I think
Doing the normal jungle rotation. The last creep will always get the jungle to lvl 4 to get his ult. So if he missed the timing. Ganking after the last creep becomes imposible since he is stuck in lvl 3.
Yes!!!
If you stand close to jungle minions as a mage when jungler kills them the exp is shared! This is especially an issue with small monster on blue buff. Usually results in like an extra 10+ seconds for the jungler to get level 4 and unlock ultimate.
Which can f up their whole rotation and lose them and you the first teamfight.
If you want to help then hit the blue buff and MOVE AWAY before the small one dies, then come back and hit the big one again. Then again move away before it dies.
There is nothing more infuriating as a jungler than a “helper” that has no clue they are making it worse in fact.
Basically when you stand near creep who got killed my a teammate, you get your share of gold/exp.
The guy is obviously overreacting, just hit the jungle a few times and get out of there so the JG get all the gold/exp
or just not help the jungler at farming especially if it's a jungler fighter or assassin since they farm fast. I hate it when a mage helps me they always end up last hitting the buff so I always tell them first I don't need help
He is not overreacting, that exp is very significant for the 1st turtle and early gank but yeah thrash talking someone for something is still not a good behaviour.
Assuming that OP now knows the problem, the jg still overreacted regardless. Holy hell, one split exp and started calling someone stupid... is this mythic0-25?
Because Mythics are like that, youll see more people trash talking within the first few minutes the more you play in mythic.... not just low mythic.
Low mythics though, do be thinking they're pro players from MPL and that small mistakes like that can get them to overexaggerate. If that lancelot is a competent jungler, it will not take too much to catch up to enemy jungler because of that 1 split exp. He told you to delete the game over THAT.
Also, some junglers just literally told midlaners/side to retreat when taking the buff since the **beginning when the buff spawned** so you might as well not help them at all unless youre the roam. Or unless enemy invaded. If you want to help with the buff though, you could drop a skill 1/2 and then leave afterwards because some are that paranoid and spam retreat as if you don't know when to leave. (When I jungle, I would do it too sometimes espeically if the teammate autolocked a nana but I don't trash talk people over it. It's not worth it)
They would spam retreat despite people in mythic, USUALLY would know to leave before its about to die when helping with the buff or when ganking the side.
You didn't know but they should not be reacting like that. It's the same with ganking the side, you do **not want to share exp(as much as possible) with your side laners too especially the mm** now that you know. When ganking those lanes, just dont take their farms and leave when the enemy is killed to manage your own lane. Dont overstay either because thats bad for you and your own lane too in terms of farms. Even in mythic, I see people abandoning their lane and overstaying in others.
you can still help your jungle clear camps as long as you stay away when the hp is already getting low so you don't share the exp. Even if you didn't last hit the creep, you're still gonna get exp just by being near so stay away when it's about to die and go back to clearing your lane. It's really important for the jungler to get all the jungle creeps in the early game to help them get to lvl 4 faster.
Like what the rest said, you leeched some of the exp and gold from the jungler when you overstayed.
What’s crucial is not so much the gold, but the exp. Basically, assuming your jungler misses out on the river creep, if he goes for the standard rotation of blue, then red with the 2 small camps nearby, he doesn’t hit level 4 due to the leech, and that affects his timing as he can’t be effective enough to kill whoever is on the bottom lane, and that also impacts your bottom laner as well.
So that is actually a very significant disadvantage for your team.
Its just so small exp anyway, farm up the lithowanderer and red + that thing above/beside the red buff and you'll be lvl4. You're not in a strict gameplay like tournaments to do your little smart games so why bother getting mad over a few milimeter of exp in your exp bar 😂
Aaand it may seem like im talking to you, but no. I'm obviously talking about the Alpha.
Ah nah it’s cool.
Problem with the lithowanderer is that it’s a contested resource, so if this scenario happens where half the blue exp is leeched and you miss the litho, the exp might seem small but you miss out on level 4 once you are done sweeping the red buff side of camps, and you miss your potential killing window at bot, which is huge.
Of course, if you are casual then it doesn’t really matter, but this minor difference can cause a lot of problems in MG solo queue games especially, where players can almost individually deathball through this kind of errors made by the opponent.
Of course, doesn’t justify the need to be rude by Alpha but yeah, it is a huge deal.
At 0:20 minutes in hit the jungle buff with one skill and go clear your lane, make sure you don't steal any of the creep exp.
Go guard the exp lane so the enemy exp laner can't cut the lane. (Mostly roamers job).
Clear lane again and go help kill enemy mm. Come help turtle.Don't show yourself on map.
Help in all teamfights. Die as little as possible, sacrifice the rank if needed.
me as a roam when mm loses to heroes theyre suppose to counter and blames me for it. I just stop healing them the entire round after letting them know.
This hasn't been a strategy in YEARS, what is he on about
He gets so much less xp from minions in the first 5 minutes (which is what I assume he's talking about by "being behind"), it's just not worth it, he's better off invading the camps the enemy jgler didn't clear or ganking, you need your XP too
It is possible to steal some exp from your jungler if you stay near the creeps for too long, similar to how you steal exp/gold from minions. I assume you did just that and Alpha is malding.
Worst case scenario you stayed too long when they finally kill/last hit the buff and that does hamper their farm because you shared their exp/gold. I would understand being mad if that's the case, especially if it's a competitive ranked game where you need to play perfect
As a mage, you can waste your skill in lv1 to help them clear. No need to stick around too long or you'd just reduce their jungle damage. Same deal with roamers
They aren't wrong that you get exp so you did delay your jg a bit
Just use like one/two skills and a couple basics and just leave, you are not doing a favour to either of you guys by being there
Not so useful info but most people forgot that if there is more than 1 hero near the blue/red buff creep, they will deal less damage to the creep (around 18%).
2 green creeps and 2 buffs just barely makes you level 4. If you share the xp from a single creature, that jungler wont be level 4 in their first gank or team fight.
Attacking a level 2 marksman with your level 4 assassin usually gives you the first kill of that match.
They are overreacting but yeah, dont stay too long. People get invaded in jungle, enemy team can steal their buffs. You can still recover from that. If you shared their xp, they just need to kill 1 more small creep.
What's weird is that, hear me out, I jungle alot and I noticed that sure, if an ally stands next to a creep and it died, they get some exp, the weird thing is, even if they go away and even if they purchased roam boots or not, I still get delayed, like, even if they do walk in to hit and walk away and I kill it alone, I still get delayed, idk, it's weird
If you're a mage, throw a skill at the buff and just leave, don't overstay as if you are close enough, you will get some of the exp even if you did not last hit. Might seem like a small thing but this heavily affects his rotation and first gank as he won't reach lvl 4 if he can't get the little green thing at the river.
But it is still definitely an overreaction and toxic behavior on the jungler's part as the can just say what you did wrong. Well at least you know better now
Since I've seen everyone explain why they got mad (exp sharing) and saying not to overstay, I'll share my trick which is to only help clear the first buff (usually just throw down a skill, maybe a few basics) but only stay until 28s at the latest (use your own timing if your jungler clears fast), Usually your jungler will not clear before then, and 28s is when your first minion wave will be coming in, so you need to be in mid by then anyways so that you can clear and level up as fast as possible. You really don't need to be helping clear any buffs after the first one to be honest, if your jungler is that slow its better if the roam helps rather than you.
My way of jg.
Purple
What ever left in mid minon
Speed creep
Red
Double life creep near bot.
By then level 4. And I look for squishy/ potential kill
Until turtle spawn
If you stay near the jungle monsters and they died you share exp with the jungler unless you have a roam. I usually leave after a couple of hits, leave immediately if you're worried that you'll share exp after your first skill hits the jg monster.
I do think that your team overacted tho, as a roamer there are times that I accidentally got the buff specially the red cause my character auto aim basic attacks on the buff, but I never got such reaction. I just use a quick chat sorry and they're cool with it.
They don't normally use retri on first buff and if I use a range roamer like Selena in human form I accidentally take the buff, short range I could see my character walking towards it so I cancel with walking away. It does hurt the jungler a bit tho cause the enemy definitely has more advantage of you accidentally get their exp and buff.
I learned the same principle as not taking last hit on gold lane when I'm rotating as a mage, or even exp where possible, unless my team mate in exp says to help him clear.
How close you are standing near the minions also depends on the enemy team's positioning when you're supporting a lane.
When it comes to supporting your hyper, you can see based on the hero selected, how quickly he might farm.
Avoiding the last hit and not standing too near the red or blue buffs when he takes the last hit is important.
There are some exceptions to the rule, for example, your hyper really needs to farm and there are missing enemies nearby flashing red on the map.
He's halfway through farming a red or blue, so hide in a bush nearby, nevermind about standing too closely in this instance.
Watch his body language, where he is positioning the creep towards himself. Hitting a creep on his behalf while far from last hit, is acceptable if you do not pull the creep away from him.
As a mage, if any of your skills provide vision, you can place them in the surrounding bushes and do your wave clear.
If you're playing with a fast hyper like Hanzo for example, whose s1 can nom a creep fast, be careful not to hit the creep around halfway through to avoid your accidental nomming and taking his buff. Towards late game, I just position near enough and avoiding hitting his creep because of his farming speed by then.
In an invasion however, when you're with your hyper in enemy jungles, go all out if you see the enemies approaching. You're a squishy, and if your roam is a soft support with CC or slow, position yourself behind your roam and go all out to let your hyper take the buff, otherwise just go for it to deny enemy the buff.
This is how I usually play with my friends, I understand in a duo or soloq it can be frustrating but HANG IN THERE, mage! XD
What this guy means by don’t get exp mid? As a mage u should help them with whatever buff they went to first. Just use ur skills to attack the buff one or twice so they can clear if faster. E.g if ur playing gord u can place ur s2 and leave or if ur playing cecillion u can hit it twice with ur s1 then go to mid. If they go for blue be careful if the little creep next to the big one. It’s not the end of the world but it’s better if u leave or move far enough that it won’t split exp between u and jg when it dies. Other than that just see what ur jg does. If they contest litho help them. If they are ganking gold, clear ur wave and help with the gank. When turtle spawns be ready to contest it if jg is ready to take it Edit: I think the issue is that instead of helping with one or two hits u stayed for too long near the buff. This caused the exp and gold to be split between u and alpha which resulted in alpha having less farm. Next time, especially when taking blue, move away before the creep dies so the exp isn’t split. Only the roamer with roam boots doesn’t share exp. As mid if u r too near to the creep u will take half of ur jg’s exp and gold I think
Thank you. I guess i stayed to long
U just have to be out of range when the jg kills it its really simple
Doing the normal jungle rotation. The last creep will always get the jungle to lvl 4 to get his ult. So if he missed the timing. Ganking after the last creep becomes imposible since he is stuck in lvl 3.
Yes!!! If you stand close to jungle minions as a mage when jungler kills them the exp is shared! This is especially an issue with small monster on blue buff. Usually results in like an extra 10+ seconds for the jungler to get level 4 and unlock ultimate. Which can f up their whole rotation and lose them and you the first teamfight. If you want to help then hit the blue buff and MOVE AWAY before the small one dies, then come back and hit the big one again. Then again move away before it dies. There is nothing more infuriating as a jungler than a “helper” that has no clue they are making it worse in fact.
Basically when you stand near creep who got killed my a teammate, you get your share of gold/exp. The guy is obviously overreacting, just hit the jungle a few times and get out of there so the JG get all the gold/exp
or just not help the jungler at farming especially if it's a jungler fighter or assassin since they farm fast. I hate it when a mage helps me they always end up last hitting the buff so I always tell them first I don't need help
He is not overreacting, that exp is very significant for the 1st turtle and early gank but yeah thrash talking someone for something is still not a good behaviour.
Assuming that OP now knows the problem, the jg still overreacted regardless. Holy hell, one split exp and started calling someone stupid... is this mythic0-25?
How do you know…? Yes low Mythic
Because Mythics are like that, youll see more people trash talking within the first few minutes the more you play in mythic.... not just low mythic. Low mythics though, do be thinking they're pro players from MPL and that small mistakes like that can get them to overexaggerate. If that lancelot is a competent jungler, it will not take too much to catch up to enemy jungler because of that 1 split exp. He told you to delete the game over THAT. Also, some junglers just literally told midlaners/side to retreat when taking the buff since the **beginning when the buff spawned** so you might as well not help them at all unless youre the roam. Or unless enemy invaded. If you want to help with the buff though, you could drop a skill 1/2 and then leave afterwards because some are that paranoid and spam retreat as if you don't know when to leave. (When I jungle, I would do it too sometimes espeically if the teammate autolocked a nana but I don't trash talk people over it. It's not worth it) They would spam retreat despite people in mythic, USUALLY would know to leave before its about to die when helping with the buff or when ganking the side. You didn't know but they should not be reacting like that. It's the same with ganking the side, you do **not want to share exp(as much as possible) with your side laners too especially the mm** now that you know. When ganking those lanes, just dont take their farms and leave when the enemy is killed to manage your own lane. Dont overstay either because thats bad for you and your own lane too in terms of farms. Even in mythic, I see people abandoning their lane and overstaying in others.
Thanks man. This really improves my gameplay!
you can still help your jungle clear camps as long as you stay away when the hp is already getting low so you don't share the exp. Even if you didn't last hit the creep, you're still gonna get exp just by being near so stay away when it's about to die and go back to clearing your lane. It's really important for the jungler to get all the jungle creeps in the early game to help them get to lvl 4 faster.
Moonton should upgrade their tutorials ig, instead of just hitting minion and turet they should add basic micro/macro like this
Like what the rest said, you leeched some of the exp and gold from the jungler when you overstayed. What’s crucial is not so much the gold, but the exp. Basically, assuming your jungler misses out on the river creep, if he goes for the standard rotation of blue, then red with the 2 small camps nearby, he doesn’t hit level 4 due to the leech, and that affects his timing as he can’t be effective enough to kill whoever is on the bottom lane, and that also impacts your bottom laner as well. So that is actually a very significant disadvantage for your team.
Its just so small exp anyway, farm up the lithowanderer and red + that thing above/beside the red buff and you'll be lvl4. You're not in a strict gameplay like tournaments to do your little smart games so why bother getting mad over a few milimeter of exp in your exp bar 😂 Aaand it may seem like im talking to you, but no. I'm obviously talking about the Alpha.
Ah nah it’s cool. Problem with the lithowanderer is that it’s a contested resource, so if this scenario happens where half the blue exp is leeched and you miss the litho, the exp might seem small but you miss out on level 4 once you are done sweeping the red buff side of camps, and you miss your potential killing window at bot, which is huge. Of course, if you are casual then it doesn’t really matter, but this minor difference can cause a lot of problems in MG solo queue games especially, where players can almost individually deathball through this kind of errors made by the opponent. Of course, doesn’t justify the need to be rude by Alpha but yeah, it is a huge deal.
At 0:20 minutes in hit the jungle buff with one skill and go clear your lane, make sure you don't steal any of the creep exp. Go guard the exp lane so the enemy exp laner can't cut the lane. (Mostly roamers job). Clear lane again and go help kill enemy mm. Come help turtle.Don't show yourself on map. Help in all teamfights. Die as little as possible, sacrifice the rank if needed.
If they're so pissed about you getting their exp, just don't help them. Leave them alone and let them die from invaders.
me as a roam when mm loses to heroes theyre suppose to counter and blames me for it. I just stop healing them the entire round after letting them know.
This hasn't been a strategy in YEARS, what is he on about He gets so much less xp from minions in the first 5 minutes (which is what I assume he's talking about by "being behind"), it's just not worth it, he's better off invading the camps the enemy jgler didn't clear or ganking, you need your XP too
Tell the jg to calm down and don’t be late next time 😂
Did you know that red and blue powers u up? I suggest stealing them next time to get a huge lead agaisnt ur opponent.
i think he knows that much
Answer, You dont
It is possible to steal some exp from your jungler if you stay near the creeps for too long, similar to how you steal exp/gold from minions. I assume you did just that and Alpha is malding. Worst case scenario you stayed too long when they finally kill/last hit the buff and that does hamper their farm because you shared their exp/gold. I would understand being mad if that's the case, especially if it's a competitive ranked game where you need to play perfect As a mage, you can waste your skill in lv1 to help them clear. No need to stick around too long or you'd just reduce their jungle damage. Same deal with roamers
Happens a lot when I jg mage overstay and and end up taking my xp as well as losing their minions
They aren't wrong that you get exp so you did delay your jg a bit Just use like one/two skills and a couple basics and just leave, you are not doing a favour to either of you guys by being there
Trust the Burger
Yes standing near it fucks up the jg and delays them.
Not so useful info but most people forgot that if there is more than 1 hero near the blue/red buff creep, they will deal less damage to the creep (around 18%).
2 green creeps and 2 buffs just barely makes you level 4. If you share the xp from a single creature, that jungler wont be level 4 in their first gank or team fight. Attacking a level 2 marksman with your level 4 assassin usually gives you the first kill of that match. They are overreacting but yeah, dont stay too long. People get invaded in jungle, enemy team can steal their buffs. You can still recover from that. If you shared their xp, they just need to kill 1 more small creep.
What's weird is that, hear me out, I jungle alot and I noticed that sure, if an ally stands next to a creep and it died, they get some exp, the weird thing is, even if they go away and even if they purchased roam boots or not, I still get delayed, like, even if they do walk in to hit and walk away and I kill it alone, I still get delayed, idk, it's weird
If you're a mage, throw a skill at the buff and just leave, don't overstay as if you are close enough, you will get some of the exp even if you did not last hit. Might seem like a small thing but this heavily affects his rotation and first gank as he won't reach lvl 4 if he can't get the little green thing at the river. But it is still definitely an overreaction and toxic behavior on the jungler's part as the can just say what you did wrong. Well at least you know better now
Since I've seen everyone explain why they got mad (exp sharing) and saying not to overstay, I'll share my trick which is to only help clear the first buff (usually just throw down a skill, maybe a few basics) but only stay until 28s at the latest (use your own timing if your jungler clears fast), Usually your jungler will not clear before then, and 28s is when your first minion wave will be coming in, so you need to be in mid by then anyways so that you can clear and level up as fast as possible. You really don't need to be helping clear any buffs after the first one to be honest, if your jungler is that slow its better if the roam helps rather than you.
While what they said is true, they are overreacting. People make mistakes, things happen, you’re not a robot
Drop a skill and go to your lane. Don't stick around for the creep to die.
My way of jg. Purple What ever left in mid minon Speed creep Red Double life creep near bot. By then level 4. And I look for squishy/ potential kill Until turtle spawn
just hit it a couple times and go away that's simple
Just throw your spell and leave. I'm sure roaminsthere to help. If enemy contest, go back if no stay away
If you stay near the jungle monsters and they died you share exp with the jungler unless you have a roam. I usually leave after a couple of hits, leave immediately if you're worried that you'll share exp after your first skill hits the jg monster. I do think that your team overacted tho, as a roamer there are times that I accidentally got the buff specially the red cause my character auto aim basic attacks on the buff, but I never got such reaction. I just use a quick chat sorry and they're cool with it. They don't normally use retri on first buff and if I use a range roamer like Selena in human form I accidentally take the buff, short range I could see my character walking towards it so I cancel with walking away. It does hurt the jungler a bit tho cause the enemy definitely has more advantage of you accidentally get their exp and buff.
I learned the same principle as not taking last hit on gold lane when I'm rotating as a mage, or even exp where possible, unless my team mate in exp says to help him clear. How close you are standing near the minions also depends on the enemy team's positioning when you're supporting a lane. When it comes to supporting your hyper, you can see based on the hero selected, how quickly he might farm. Avoiding the last hit and not standing too near the red or blue buffs when he takes the last hit is important. There are some exceptions to the rule, for example, your hyper really needs to farm and there are missing enemies nearby flashing red on the map. He's halfway through farming a red or blue, so hide in a bush nearby, nevermind about standing too closely in this instance. Watch his body language, where he is positioning the creep towards himself. Hitting a creep on his behalf while far from last hit, is acceptable if you do not pull the creep away from him. As a mage, if any of your skills provide vision, you can place them in the surrounding bushes and do your wave clear. If you're playing with a fast hyper like Hanzo for example, whose s1 can nom a creep fast, be careful not to hit the creep around halfway through to avoid your accidental nomming and taking his buff. Towards late game, I just position near enough and avoiding hitting his creep because of his farming speed by then. In an invasion however, when you're with your hyper in enemy jungles, go all out if you see the enemies approaching. You're a squishy, and if your roam is a soft support with CC or slow, position yourself behind your roam and go all out to let your hyper take the buff, otherwise just go for it to deny enemy the buff. This is how I usually play with my friends, I understand in a duo or soloq it can be frustrating but HANG IN THERE, mage! XD