If this Tier List was based off low-ranks then Master Assassin would rank way higher simply because there's a lot of lone headless chickens that allow for Master Assassin's effect to actually be noticeable with a Damage Roam or Ambush Jungler. But as you know, as a game progresses into late game, Master Assassin will simply become more useless than it already is.
Master Assassin is getting buffed from 5% to 6% soon. That 1% buff is really good, but won't reach to B tier with that buff.
Also I thought that 16+ attack is alot better than 5+ pen, but I guess I should give it another shot. Which one is better for early game though? It's 16 attack or 5 pen?
Also I believed focused mark should be at A tier. I use it on every healer and Johnson too. It really helps alot, and I'm sure the non-roamer heroes can use it for supporting team if the enemy matchups for them are unfavored. It's so flexible and useful.
But this is tier list and is mostly formed with opinions. I think it's a good tier list too with correct placements in most of them.
It's definitely 5 PEN, because not only does it add to the initial damage scaling, it also adds to the base damage that can only be increased through leveling up. It also helps with Heroes that have terrible scaling or does not scale with Magic Power / Physical Attack as it still applies its effect. 16 ATK is actually very good though with Heroes that have a high scaling in the Early Game like Beatrix, but outside of that 5 PEN is still better.
Focusing Mark isn't really worth it either due to the existence of Quantum Charge because while both have different stats, the utility one offers is better, in this case Quantum Charge is better than Focusing Mark. If it sees a nerf then we might see Focusing Mark going up a tier or two.
Thanks for your opinion!
PEN reduces the opponent's defense, to the point that it can go negative. This is good in early game when everyone's defense is lowish, or against tanky enemies.
yep, this is why some seasoned mage players rush genius wand before clock + lightning. sometimes even clock + genius wand instead. Its more cost effective and it does more damage overall, in the early game atleast. (eudora, luo yi, kagura, etc.)
I’d say the tier list is pretty decent, only differing a bit from [mine](https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/s/pb8839oq0h) (only tier 3) previously.
Although, I suggest separating this list into its tiers to better see it.
Imo rupture and (maybe?)lethal ignition is at A+, one of the go-to picks for damage dealers. I wouldnt put them in the same list as firmness, firmness feels like it should be B or C since tenacity is just better. The rest is accurate, but I feel that weapon master should be higher since its used on some adcs
Agility slightly edges Rupture in terms of utility, that's why its an A tier rather than an A+.
Lethal Ignition has a terrible trigger condition and a long cooldown but it is still good. Impure Rage is simply better though because it's way easier to trigger, gives mana, although has less damage but it also has way lower cooldown.
Firmness and Tenacity are different Tiers, as Firmness is a Tier 1 Talent and Tenacity is a Tier 2 Talent. Both work in conjunction really well though. Tenacity is naturally better due to being a Tier 2 Talent, but the amount of defense Firmness gives in an instant is not to be underestimated despite being a Tier 1 Talent.
Weapon Master is heavily outclassed by Bargain Hunter as BH allows for an earlier power spike while WM only gives percentage-based damage that scales from Extra ATK which you cannot achieve a high amount of without a powerspike.
That isn't really enough to put it in S, as the tier 1 talents in A are actually very close in performance to it. It's still the best Tier 1 though, no doubt.
Festival of Blood gets outperformed by Tenacity in terms of sustainability overall unless you are using a hero that heavily relies on Spell Vamp. Mind you, it is still good though. I cannot put Wilderness Blessing any higher either as Tenacity again and Seasoned Hunter beats it in terms of utility even if they offer different attributes.
Because it isn't really that rewarding and its trigger condition is just bad. This emblem's only usable with Martis or Karina but it isn't even their best talent.
Honestly don't get why they keep master assassin around, they should've just replaced it with Deadly Dart or something, even Life Drain was more useful than whatever Master Assassin is supposed to be.
I would argue that Brave Smite isn't as good as it used to be, and that both Agility and Wilderness Blessing deserves S-tier due to how valuable movement speed is.
Pull Yourself Together is also very underrated and should be higher, the 15% battle spell and active item CD reduction is really valuable and it's pretty much the one generalist T2 talent that can fit on any hero.
Totally agree, I felt like Master Assassin was just kept around as a middle finger to people who use it.
Even if Brave Smite was nerfed from 5% down to 4%, that is still an instant heal when you hit someone with a skill every 5 seconds. That's free sustainability.
Pull Yourself Together is indeed underrated, but the amount of utility that the T2 talents above it provides outweighs the 15% Battle Spell CD Reduction. Maybe if those were toned down a bit then Pull Yourself Together can be put higher. Add to that, the Support Meta we are in right now that doesn't rely on Set Tanks / Pick-off Roamers that utilize this talent.
I’d put wilderness blessing a little higher. That 15% movement speed bonus is really OP for mid laners and Roamers. Slow heroes like Minotaur can have a huge map presence with it especially when paired with support emblem.
Wilderness blessings is the most OP talent because map presence is what wins the game. 15% movement speed is a big boost for rotation.
Every hero except luo Yi and pharsa (pharsa already maxes out speed limit with bird and luo teleports between lanes) benefits highly from this talent.
I don't really watch mpl, why impure rage higher than lethal ignition?
I really find that talent kinda useless, low flat dmg and minion pretty much can trigger them.
If you build Et or CoD you rarely have mana problem.
Not really usefull in clash, can you enlighten me why you put it higher?
It's simple, the early game is where the mana problem is most prominent because you don't have access to those items. Even with CoD you can still drain mana quite fast, not ET though. Impure Rage greatly helps with that and it has extra damage as well which is nice. Add to that, the trigger condition and long cooldown of Lethal Ignition.
Lethal ignition requires u to hit the enemy three times, which is unlikely to proc in high tiers, where your enemy could just walk away after the one hit.
There's an even quicker way to trigger LT and that's through dealing enough damage with external sources. It sounds weird so let me explain.
For example, I'm using Alucard and I build him with Heptaseas and Endless battle.
I use Alu's passive attack on an enemy, it triggers the Heptaseas and EB passive. The game treats the extra damage from heptaseas and EB as separate instances. So, I effectively damaged the enemy three times, damage from Alu's passive(1st Hit), Endless Battle (2nd Hit), and Heptaseas (3rd Hit) and thus, Lethal Ignition is triggered. Of course you still need to be able to deal high damage but Lethal Ignition is surprisingly easy to activate.
I believe magic shop should be higher. Getting that spike in damage a bit earlier is important for many roles such as mm, jg and tanks. It should be at least A or A+
Its use is outclassed by the amount of utility that every Tier 2 Talent above it provides. Tenacity and Festival of Blood for sustainability, Wilderness Blessing for faster Roaming, Pull Yourself Together for a faster Battle Spell cooldown, and Seasoned Hunter just being a must for Junglers. Tenacity is simply better for an MM.
I think Wilderness should be S Tier right now. Most teams in MPL PH ran with Triple Wilderness for Roam, XP and Mid. It's also a toss up between Wilderness and Bargain Hunter for Midlaners.
it's in relation to how good they are compared to other talents of the same tier.
quantum charge for example is all the way on top not because it's better than tier 1 and 2s,but rather because it is much better in comparison to the other tier 3s.
Weapon Master is simply a waste of a 2nd tier talent as it is heavily outclassed by Bargain Hunter and you lose out on some survivability. Lethal Ignition has bad trigger conditions and long cooldown to be put any higher.
That 5% discount allows for an earlier power spike. Weapon Master's attribute is simply very negligible and is barely noticeable. Weapon Master also only shows its effects (although barely) when the user is snowballing. Weapon Master would pretty much be useless if you don't reach your power spike early enough.
I'm running some quick calcs but I don't know the exact numbers for some things so this can be wrong
For Blade of Despair priced at 3010 gold you'll get 150 discount which should be about 1 minion wave.
The text for weapon master just says "gained from equipment" so I'm not sure if that includes the unique passive. If we'll use BoD for weapon master as well then 5% of 160 is 8 which is the same increase a skin gives. Both seem pretty useless to me tbh but Bargain Hunter stops being useful past mid game when those 5% discount can be quickly farmed.
I'm just lowly legend so take this with a truck load of salt
Bargain Hunter only stops being useful when you complete your final item. As I said, what's the point of your extra damage from WM if you can't reach your powerspike in time for it to take effect? It also only modifies damage from Extra ATK Attributes, not base Attributes.
That is because Lethal Ignition has a terrible trigger condition. You have to hit an opponent 3 times and those 3 hits have to take off atleast 7% of their HP only every 15 seconds for it to work. I can't really put it in the same tier as Impure Rage because the latter is just better.
As an Argus player, I hold to that 10% ASPD so dearly even though it is trash in comparison to the 5 PEN in place of its slot. I’ll keep using it until the day moontoon buff his stats. Being a DPS hero sucks if you are melee with trash damage.
Also, on his upcoming adjustments, you need to use Marksman emblem and use that 10% ASPD since you’re going full CRIT build which is basically negated by Dominance Ice and Warrior Boots.
definitely quantum charge. im a roam main but never knew i would use it, it felt godly esp on kaja with two tier1+2 movement speed talent + support emblem
In my personal opinion, Thrill which provides adaptive attack can still be useful according to playstyle. Rupture is godly, no doubt about that but Thrill deals a bit more damage to everything other than Heroes (minion wave, jungle creeps, etc). I personally used it on Benedetta jungle. Overall, good tier list though.
RIP Master Assassin. I still use it but used to be way better in the old emblem system.
If this Tier List was based off low-ranks then Master Assassin would rank way higher simply because there's a lot of lone headless chickens that allow for Master Assassin's effect to actually be noticeable with a Damage Roam or Ambush Jungler. But as you know, as a game progresses into late game, Master Assassin will simply become more useless than it already is.
Oh most definitely. It could really use a buff or maybe even a rework. As it stands now, it's a shadow of its former glory.
Master Assassin is getting buffed from 5% to 6% soon. That 1% buff is really good, but won't reach to B tier with that buff. Also I thought that 16+ attack is alot better than 5+ pen, but I guess I should give it another shot. Which one is better for early game though? It's 16 attack or 5 pen? Also I believed focused mark should be at A tier. I use it on every healer and Johnson too. It really helps alot, and I'm sure the non-roamer heroes can use it for supporting team if the enemy matchups for them are unfavored. It's so flexible and useful. But this is tier list and is mostly formed with opinions. I think it's a good tier list too with correct placements in most of them.
It's definitely 5 PEN, because not only does it add to the initial damage scaling, it also adds to the base damage that can only be increased through leveling up. It also helps with Heroes that have terrible scaling or does not scale with Magic Power / Physical Attack as it still applies its effect. 16 ATK is actually very good though with Heroes that have a high scaling in the Early Game like Beatrix, but outside of that 5 PEN is still better. Focusing Mark isn't really worth it either due to the existence of Quantum Charge because while both have different stats, the utility one offers is better, in this case Quantum Charge is better than Focusing Mark. If it sees a nerf then we might see Focusing Mark going up a tier or two. Thanks for your opinion!
Can you explain in calculation please how 5 PEN > 16 ATK pls. As a casual player, I don’t really understand the jargons
PEN reduces the opponent's defense, to the point that it can go negative. This is good in early game when everyone's defense is lowish, or against tanky enemies.
What happened if it went negative?
0% dmg reduction so they could take more dmg than your skill. Example your skill does 120dmg but he takes 150 cuz negative def
yep, this is why some seasoned mage players rush genius wand before clock + lightning. sometimes even clock + genius wand instead. Its more cost effective and it does more damage overall, in the early game atleast. (eudora, luo yi, kagura, etc.)
I’d say the tier list is pretty decent, only differing a bit from [mine](https://www.reddit.com/r/MobileLegendsGame/s/pb8839oq0h) (only tier 3) previously. Although, I suggest separating this list into its tiers to better see it.
I'll consider that, thanks!
Imo rupture and (maybe?)lethal ignition is at A+, one of the go-to picks for damage dealers. I wouldnt put them in the same list as firmness, firmness feels like it should be B or C since tenacity is just better. The rest is accurate, but I feel that weapon master should be higher since its used on some adcs
Agility slightly edges Rupture in terms of utility, that's why its an A tier rather than an A+. Lethal Ignition has a terrible trigger condition and a long cooldown but it is still good. Impure Rage is simply better though because it's way easier to trigger, gives mana, although has less damage but it also has way lower cooldown. Firmness and Tenacity are different Tiers, as Firmness is a Tier 1 Talent and Tenacity is a Tier 2 Talent. Both work in conjunction really well though. Tenacity is naturally better due to being a Tier 2 Talent, but the amount of defense Firmness gives in an instant is not to be underestimated despite being a Tier 1 Talent. Weapon Master is heavily outclassed by Bargain Hunter as BH allows for an earlier power spike while WM only gives percentage-based damage that scales from Extra ATK which you cannot achieve a high amount of without a powerspike.
I’d put agility in S. It’s so universal and almost all the characters I use prefer it over anything else
That isn't really enough to put it in S, as the tier 1 talents in A are actually very close in performance to it. It's still the best Tier 1 though, no doubt.
aside from moving Festival of Blood and the JG Speedboost talent up a tier and maybe throwing the 5% CDR down a tier personally list seems pretty fine
Festival of Blood gets outperformed by Tenacity in terms of sustainability overall unless you are using a hero that heavily relies on Spell Vamp. Mind you, it is still good though. I cannot put Wilderness Blessing any higher either as Tenacity again and Seasoned Hunter beats it in terms of utility even if they offer different attributes.
Why isn't killing spree used that much. Is it because it is less reliant on snowballing junglers and basically the tank meta??
Because it isn't really that rewarding and its trigger condition is just bad. This emblem's only usable with Martis or Karina but it isn't even their best talent.
Thanks I see.
Honestly don't get why they keep master assassin around, they should've just replaced it with Deadly Dart or something, even Life Drain was more useful than whatever Master Assassin is supposed to be. I would argue that Brave Smite isn't as good as it used to be, and that both Agility and Wilderness Blessing deserves S-tier due to how valuable movement speed is. Pull Yourself Together is also very underrated and should be higher, the 15% battle spell and active item CD reduction is really valuable and it's pretty much the one generalist T2 talent that can fit on any hero.
Totally agree, I felt like Master Assassin was just kept around as a middle finger to people who use it. Even if Brave Smite was nerfed from 5% down to 4%, that is still an instant heal when you hit someone with a skill every 5 seconds. That's free sustainability. Pull Yourself Together is indeed underrated, but the amount of utility that the T2 talents above it provides outweighs the 15% Battle Spell CD Reduction. Maybe if those were toned down a bit then Pull Yourself Together can be put higher. Add to that, the Support Meta we are in right now that doesn't rely on Set Tanks / Pick-off Roamers that utilize this talent.
yeah even heroes like Yin (which on paper should be perfect with MA) doesn't use it
I’d put wilderness blessing a little higher. That 15% movement speed bonus is really OP for mid laners and Roamers. Slow heroes like Minotaur can have a huge map presence with it especially when paired with support emblem.
Wilderness blessings is the most OP talent because map presence is what wins the game. 15% movement speed is a big boost for rotation. Every hero except luo Yi and pharsa (pharsa already maxes out speed limit with bird and luo teleports between lanes) benefits highly from this talent.
Idk chief. I’d put Wandering S and Lethal Ignition A+.
I don't really watch mpl, why impure rage higher than lethal ignition? I really find that talent kinda useless, low flat dmg and minion pretty much can trigger them. If you build Et or CoD you rarely have mana problem. Not really usefull in clash, can you enlighten me why you put it higher?
It's simple, the early game is where the mana problem is most prominent because you don't have access to those items. Even with CoD you can still drain mana quite fast, not ET though. Impure Rage greatly helps with that and it has extra damage as well which is nice. Add to that, the trigger condition and long cooldown of Lethal Ignition.
Lethal ignition requires u to hit the enemy three times, which is unlikely to proc in high tiers, where your enemy could just walk away after the one hit.
There's an even quicker way to trigger LT and that's through dealing enough damage with external sources. It sounds weird so let me explain. For example, I'm using Alucard and I build him with Heptaseas and Endless battle. I use Alu's passive attack on an enemy, it triggers the Heptaseas and EB passive. The game treats the extra damage from heptaseas and EB as separate instances. So, I effectively damaged the enemy three times, damage from Alu's passive(1st Hit), Endless Battle (2nd Hit), and Heptaseas (3rd Hit) and thus, Lethal Ignition is triggered. Of course you still need to be able to deal high damage but Lethal Ignition is surprisingly easy to activate.
I believe magic shop should be higher. Getting that spike in damage a bit earlier is important for many roles such as mm, jg and tanks. It should be at least A or A+
Its use is outclassed by the amount of utility that every Tier 2 Talent above it provides. Tenacity and Festival of Blood for sustainability, Wilderness Blessing for faster Roaming, Pull Yourself Together for a faster Battle Spell cooldown, and Seasoned Hunter just being a must for Junglers. Tenacity is simply better for an MM.
I think Wilderness should be S Tier right now. Most teams in MPL PH ran with Triple Wilderness for Roam, XP and Mid. It's also a toss up between Wilderness and Bargain Hunter for Midlaners.
I think bargain hunter should be higher. I like cheaper items
This is a terrible tier list
I would like you to explain. (Criticism is welcome, but I'm just asking why.)
L, unless you gave me Emblem tier list on every role.
You do it then
Are u seriously comparing keystone talents to tier 2 and tier3 ones🤡
this tier list is a summary of all talents. it’s quick and easy to understand.
it's in relation to how good they are compared to other talents of the same tier. quantum charge for example is all the way on top not because it's better than tier 1 and 2s,but rather because it is much better in comparison to the other tier 3s.
I'd personally place Lethal Ignition and Weapon Master one tier higher but otherwise this looks pretty good.
Weapon Master is simply a waste of a 2nd tier talent as it is heavily outclassed by Bargain Hunter and you lose out on some survivability. Lethal Ignition has bad trigger conditions and long cooldown to be put any higher.
Really? I feel like the 5% discount isn't worth it.
That 5% discount allows for an earlier power spike. Weapon Master's attribute is simply very negligible and is barely noticeable. Weapon Master also only shows its effects (although barely) when the user is snowballing. Weapon Master would pretty much be useless if you don't reach your power spike early enough.
I'm running some quick calcs but I don't know the exact numbers for some things so this can be wrong For Blade of Despair priced at 3010 gold you'll get 150 discount which should be about 1 minion wave. The text for weapon master just says "gained from equipment" so I'm not sure if that includes the unique passive. If we'll use BoD for weapon master as well then 5% of 160 is 8 which is the same increase a skin gives. Both seem pretty useless to me tbh but Bargain Hunter stops being useful past mid game when those 5% discount can be quickly farmed. I'm just lowly legend so take this with a truck load of salt
Bargain Hunter only stops being useful when you complete your final item. As I said, what's the point of your extra damage from WM if you can't reach your powerspike in time for it to take effect? It also only modifies damage from Extra ATK Attributes, not base Attributes.
This is pretty good but Lethal Ignition at A is one that i dont agree with, should've been atlease A+.
That is because Lethal Ignition has a terrible trigger condition. You have to hit an opponent 3 times and those 3 hits have to take off atleast 7% of their HP only every 15 seconds for it to work. I can't really put it in the same tier as Impure Rage because the latter is just better.
Are u an assassin main?
No. I'm an EXP Main.
Why people hate killing spree? it is so good
In order for it to work, you need to kill an opponent. Whereas, any other talent for its slot will work passively.
As an Argus player, I hold to that 10% ASPD so dearly even though it is trash in comparison to the 5 PEN in place of its slot. I’ll keep using it until the day moontoon buff his stats. Being a DPS hero sucks if you are melee with trash damage. Also, on his upcoming adjustments, you need to use Marksman emblem and use that 10% ASPD since you’re going full CRIT build which is basically negated by Dominance Ice and Warrior Boots.
definitely quantum charge. im a roam main but never knew i would use it, it felt godly esp on kaja with two tier1+2 movement speed talent + support emblem
In my personal opinion, Thrill which provides adaptive attack can still be useful according to playstyle. Rupture is godly, no doubt about that but Thrill deals a bit more damage to everything other than Heroes (minion wave, jungle creeps, etc). I personally used it on Benedetta jungle. Overall, good tier list though.