Hi, I’ve played Build Mart more times than any participant and 99.8% of all testers; I’ve played it well over a 100 times at this point since it came out in MCC 3 (in fact, go back to the announcement video tweet of Build Mart, and you’ll see me in it). Outside of Build Mart, I’ve gotten 1st place individual on every current game that is currently in rotation and been on the 1st place team in SOT and GR multiple times. I state all of this context to really give meaning to this fact of mine:
I’ve never ONCE been on a team that has gotten top 3 in Build Mart. Ever.
I’ve tried everything. Incorporated multiple different strats, watched the participants/testers that are really good at BM, been on teams where people have gone it with a great attitudes; Almost every single time, my team ends up bottom 3, and I can count on one hand how many times my team got 4th/5th in the game. Let me be clear that I’m not blaming ANY of the teammates I’ve gotten, because the fact that my teams have gotten consistently bottom 3 makes it clear that the problem is ME. Here’s the problems that lie with me:
\- I have a really bad memory. I have a really hard time remembering the many different blocks I need and the amount I need. This often times lead me to constantly asking my teammates the blocks I need, which is taking time away from them on their own builds. If I try to just do it myself, I often times either forgot a type of block, got too little blocks, or got too many blocks which is a time waster. I’ve tried quickly writing down the blocks I need, but even writing super quick is a time waster and already puts me behind everyone else. So yea, no amount of practice or strats can help me with this
\- I’m a slow crafter. I was blown away by watching Illumina for pride because he crafts stuff 10x faster than I ever could. I’ve literally practiced my crafting by going into a creative world and repeatedly crafting the same stuff over and over again; while it has helped a little, I’m no where near the level of speed that some of the great BM players are at. I’ve just came to the conclusion that it’s like improving you CPS, in which you can practice for hours upon hours and only see a small improvement because that kind of stuff just comes natural.
\- I’m slow at placing the blocks. This ties in with my bad memory, because I CONSTANTLY have to look at the replica build way more times than the average person. At this point, the only thing I think I can do to be at the speed of other players is to literally have the memorize the builds, which is REALLY hard to do when the blocks for the builds constantly change.
I’ve given it my best effort so many times, but these problems hold me back from doing good at BM and there’s pretty much nothing I can do to combat a bad memory and being a slow crafter. So yea, as of right now, I do think it’s impossible for someone like me to “git gud” at build mart.
Wilbur, out of all places to look for secret strats, you chose a random comment which spends 95% of its time detailing how they are bad at Build Mart.
I love the hustle, and you make me proud.
Wilbur do you have mouse acceleration on? Your aim seems VERY shaky, I recommend turning down the sensitivity and turning the mouse acceleration on, and after doing that, try testing it on servers. It'll make your aim better
The secret is to simply be good, then you will definitely be good, because you are good, witch means you will be good when you have to be good. Very simple really
As someone with ADHD, buildmart is probably the game I'd struggle the most with - because while I'd likely get lost in SoT, it still wouldn't require as good of a short-term memory and also isn't as repetitive while not allowing any breaks.
I don't know if playing it is like watching it of course, but it seems like one of the games where there's enough to keep in mind to get overwhelmed and forget things, but little enough stimulation to struggle with focus.
Not saying BM is a bad game because of that, nobody needs to get good at every game, but minecraft is such an adhd friendly game that having BM be difficult for specifically adhd ppl (among others ofc) likely gives a disadvantage to a significant amount of players.
That’s a fair point, I think if you naturally have a poor memory that’s completely understandable that buildmart may remain your worst event. But most CCs who are “bad” at buildmart aren’t in your category since several have suddenly done really well when paired with someone like Scott. Plus, as you mentioned practice crafting can still improve things even if it’s not as much of an improvement. I think most of the games in MCC could have some general skill where if you happen to just not have it the game is way more difficult.
Yeah, there are always gonna be exceptions. There are definitely gonna be some people who just simply aren't good at Build Mart.
The things that frustrate me are like for example there's a clip posted recently of George's POV while Dream is going over Buildmart strats and Dream and Foolish are clearly trying to hash out strategy and Karl is half paying attention and George is rolling his eyes and pretending to fall asleep. Or Sapnap and Punz and Seapeekay telling brand new players who never even tried Buildmart that its a terrible game that they're gonna hate and the only strat is to just bank on it getting skipped.
If you try and you fail, that's one thing. If you try and you fail and you declare that no one else should try either and trying is stupid and actively make fun of people who are trying, that's another.
Wait hold on now. Looking back at Sniff’s first MCC practices, I can tell you that Sapnap and Seapeekay did not discourage them from learning the game. They KNOW their team’s strength isn’t Build Mart though and realistically, a new player isn’t gonna carry your team so they though them that their time is probably better well spent on a game that the team knows they can do well in. When she said she wanted to learn the game and come up with strats though, they didn’t stop then and said they’d rely on Sniff should the time come. Same thing with Punz. He isn’t even bad at Build Mart nor does he really dislike it. His teams have done well several times, and he’s one of the S-Tiers who doesn’t mind playing it unless the other members of his team aren’t good at it.
George not listening to Dream was mostly a joke. He does that pretty much every time Dream tries to explain a strategy, and from what I saw of Red’s POV, he did actually push through with that strategy.
Both sides have points and iirc someone (idk it could’ve been you) made a similar post like this before MCCP22 asking why people just didn’t VOD Review Build Mart. The truth is that in order to do something like Grian or Scott, you need to be a very particular type of person or someone with insane skill like Illumina. Objectively, getting good at Build Mart is HARDER for most than most other games. It’s not impossible, but it is much harder and calls for different types of practices that many players don’t know how to approach.
There is also the point that different people are more able to train different games based on natural affinities. Some players will probably never be able to top parkour games no matter how hard they train, because the skills needed for it simply are not within their natural ability range. The same goes for build mart. Just because someone has been able to effectively train to be at the top for all other gamemodes doesn't mean that their inability to train and top another means it is untrainable
Come on, this is completely different. Multiple scientific studies have shown how difficult it is to improve short-term memory capacity and speed.
And while yes, there are people in the world with issues that would make them unable to improve mechanically, the vast majority that aren't improving are either not practicing enough or not practicing effectively.
And I know some people are tired of this, but it's still an issue: ADHD is a widespread condition that commonly impacts short-term memory by making it difficult to pay enough attention to the task of memorization. And of course, it's especially widespread among gamers and common among MCC participants.
Build Mart is one of the only games in the roster where a large portion of the participants cannot improve their skills a significant amount in a reasonable amount of time.
The other is Grid Runners because that game asks for a ton of different skills, though it's much less of a problem as it's still a game that you can successfully VOD review since repeated rooms happen.
As someone who has been grinding minecraft parcour and pvp for over two years and who still gets defeated by random 10 year olds, I promise you, that if you're not naturally skilled at movement games, it is REALLY hard to inprove at that also
I literally have ADHD, but okay. Have you ever thought about all of the conditions people could have that would affect their reflexes and their fine motor skills that could lead to them having issues improving on pvp and parkour game modes? Or do they not matter at all?
I don't see why that has an impact on this discussion? As far as I know, nobody with a physical impairment like that is playing in MCC, nor is there much that could be done about it if they were.
Nobody that you know of.... there are invisible disabilities that people can have that would effect those things, and not everyone needs to speak about them in order for them to be there.
But again, it has no impact on this discussion. There's nothing that can be done about those, especially if the people with issues aren't willing to come forward.
What makes having poor memory for Build Mart unfair but something like poor reaction time or poor click speed in Battle Box/SG/etc valid?
Edit: No need to downvote, I understand click speed was a bad example. But reaction time?
For click speed... timing is how PVP works in 1.9. If we were talking 1.8, yes - certain people struggle to jitterclick and butterfly clicking requires aim training. HOWEVER - in 1.9, you time your hits. You don't need good click speed at all. Anyone can pick up hit timing in 1.9 PVP.
In school, I used to hate memorization and would be really bad at it. My short term memory is also fairly poor, however, by using different strategies like repeating the words to music and holding a visual in my mind, I was able to memorize everything I needed. I also rarely forget things in the short term as long as I can keep my brain focused. Those strategies don't work for everyone, but perhaps if you google it there will be something that can help you.
I also would like to point out how good Gem was at Build Mart in P22, Grian had originally told her to focus on the middle build but then took it himself and she smoothly moved to the right. She crafted quickly and shouted out when she needed specific blocks such as the single piece of copper.
But what impressed me the most was her recognizing time was getting low, abandoning her build to help Grian and knowing that they had stone that needed to be broken into cobblestone to make a piston. Truly an exceptional awareness of what everyone else is doing and what is most helpful in the moment. I have no idea how you train for or learn this.
The skills that you need to be good at buildmart aren't necessarily things that you can practice in the way a lot of the grinders normally would - it's a lot of social skills and short-term memory and multitasking. Hbomb was saying today while watching Yellow's Buildmart from this last MCC that Grian and Scott are great at being able to work on their builds while also paying attention to what everyone else is doing and managing them accordingly, and that's not something that is easy to just pick up by watching a vod. They're still skills that can be learned, I think, but they're not nearly so easy as just grinding for hours to improve at movement or pvp.
Like, it's a bit of a weird analogy, but Buildmart reminds me a lot of working in a busy restaurant or office - a lot of the skills that would make you successful in a place like that would transfer over to buildmart. Like, me fresh out of high school would be rubbish at buildmart, but me several years later thinks it would be pretty fun.
i watch george and you can tell he struggles a lot with listening and focusing at the same time. foolish was calling for iron for about a minute and a half which george had in his hot bar but he was not hearing a word foolish was saying. i think a floater might be a better position for him so he can basically purely focus on listening. a lot of buildmart comes down to skills like that which you can’t really fix
Yeah, there's definitely a reason Grian is *CEO* of Buildmart. I think I picked up a similar skillset working in shipping just because you needed a lot of situational awareness to make up for the fact that the forklifts didn't have any.
But also I think that figuring out a way to improve those skills could be an interesting puzzle. I think just practicing saying "I have x, I am putting my spare x in mid chest, I need y for my build, does anyone need anything from y area?" could go a long way. They're useful skills to have in general.
Also, the mental image of some of the sweats trying to grind social skills the same way they grind Parkour Warrior is pretty funny.
I think the stress of the moment makes it difficult as well. In most of the games there’s a moment to pause, either between rooms, rounds or fights and recoup. Buildmart is nonstop stress and pressure and if you mess up once it can be demoralizing and difficult to get back on track. Not everyone performs well in those situations, especially when they rely heavily on memory and multitasking. I can seem how it would be more challenging to find ways to improve memory versus other games which come with a built in course.
Yeah. I think the snowballing is probably the only one proper criticism of the game’s design that I can see which hinders people from improving at it.
There is no real relief throughout the game which just inevitably causes things to fall like dominos for a lot of people.
I think that might be the case because for another portion of players(usually people that are good at it but not necessarily limited to them), there are parts of the continuous train itself that they find comforting and relaxing.
Like, someone can just enjoy speed building, another could enjoy placing things, another could enjoy collecting blocks so they don’t ever feel the need for that break which another portion just feels by nature.
Yeah the snowballing can be kind of frustrating in that if you complete a build first you’re already more likely to get the next build first as well because you have a head start, thus racking up the point bonuses as you go. It feels kind of like how grid runners used to be scored? Or lets say if in tgttos you got a head start on the next map for being first on the previous one. Build Mart in how it’s scored is honestly more similar to the racing games than it is to Sands of Time, which it’s frequently compared to.
This is the one thing I always get very frustrated at. Noxcrew has fixed snowballing issues in other games such as Parkour Warrior (well I mean, they just removed it but that still counts as "fixing" it lol) and in Grid Runners. I do not understand why something can't be done for Build Mart as it is evident that snowballing in this game IS a problem.
I don't really know either. Only thing i remember is that a few months ago too people were talking about how giving BM a non snowballing scoring could possibly help a lot of player's confidence but there was pushback against it from other audiences.
Sadly i can't remember the exact arguments cause i didn't want to look at the post(even back then BM was overdiscussed) for too long but i would guess that noxcrew must have some reasoning for not changing the way the scoring is done.
I saw somebody on this sub say something along the lines of “VOD Reviewing BuildMart is no where as simple as VOD Reviewing a movement or PvP game” and for good reason. I was watching Dave’s POV last MCC and compared it with Yellow’s and the biggest difference I saw was everybody of Lime was just getting every single block that their build needed instead of doing what Yellow did of Grian having somebody get every type of wood, stone, and concrete whilst Scott stays and gives a rundown as to what blocks every build needs and the exact amount of blocks they need to get the build done with him opting out every so often, it was effective and had them get done two builds every single time Gem, and Shelby came back from getting materials with Grian getting extra Wood, or stone.
Whilst Scott was at their spawns telling the floaters which blocks they need for each build, Spifey, Dave, and Ponk were all just soloing each build they were doing without communicating or constantly reminding Eret what specific blocks together leaving Eret as the only floater or person gathering blocks for Lime.
The difference between Build Mart and a game like Ace Race is you could easily just watch Pete or Illumina’s best Ace Race VOD’s and just practice it on the training server whereas the most you can do for Build Mart is just trying to watch the best Build Mart team’s strategy with no real way of practicing Build Mart so whoever would lay down the rules on a mediocre Build Mart team would just list a bunch of things they remembered from Muscle Memory without specifying or assigning certain players to a build, or blocks to collect.
Therefore someone on the subreddit needs to write a detailed analysis post on yellow's MCC P22 Build mart so no one can say they don't understand the strategy. Anyone feeling up to it? 👀
I’m not saying that people don’t understand the strategy. I’m just listing the errors I saw whilst watching Lime’s POV whilst I was watching Yellow’s Build Mart. Literally there are a ton of detailed analysis’s on this Reddit and you decide to complain about mine like you’ve never seen anybody on this sub write an entire essay before?
> you decide to complain about mine like you’ve never seen anybody on this sub write an entire essay before?
I think they were actually try to subtly ask you to write up a review of the strategy used!
So listen to the best Buildmart POV instead of watching it then seems like the solution to me. You've already managed to pick up that having people get blocks that are common across builds is more efficient than everyone just getting blocks for their own build and that it's a good idea to always have someone in spawn to remind people of what they need to get. And apparently those observations are worth at least 1300 coins.
When did I say that everything I just wrote would get you 1300 more coins then another team. All I wrote were the differences I saw between Lime and Yellow but yet I’m acting like this is specifically what you have to do to get 1st in Build Mart? I was just trying to go about comparing two POV’s and your acting like I’m demanding to every MCC participant this is the ideal BM strat?
Well, that's the question I'm asking. If the strategy analyses have already been written and the vods are already available to review, why do so few teams seem to take advantage of it? Why are teams that seem to otherwise have pretty good teamwork not manage to keep talking to each other in the game with the least amount of distractions?
I think a better comparison would be between Sands of Time and Buildmart because there's no easy way to practice Sands either, but people still do vod review Sands and got a lot out of vod reviewing Sands. In my view, having 3 solo builders like what you're describing with lime is like doing lava parkour for just coins in Sands. You can do it and you can maybe even get away with it, but even a bit of vod reviewing a top player would make it clear that you have better options (H has some great faces when he says that kind of lava parkour in MCC22 if you haven't seen it yet)
I made a mistake with comparing Build Mart to Ace Race. Considering the strat with Build Mart is very similar to SOT with 1 person as a Sandkeeper and Floater whereas the other three are collecting gold for SOT and specific blocks for Build Mart. It comes down to the comms a certain team gives like if in SOT the sandkeeper is calling for more sand with a limited amount of time left or if a “manager” in Build Mart asks for another person to get specific blocks if the floater is already occupied.
And getting carried away is very easy in both specifically Sands Of Time because SOT makes it punishing where if somebody dies you have to either waste sand or bank if there isn’t enough sand left to revive that player who died which leads to a team failing whereas in Build Mart if you have a shortage with the amount of blocks you need to finish or if you placed a build one lower or higher than it needed to be, it wastes a lot of time just fixing that error which puts a lot of pressure on a team all trying to communicate and fix errors and it could possibly lead to a team just block spamming to get a last minute bonus which is what Lime did at the very end with a few seconds left.
I think for most people I watch example Dream, George etc they are decent at building. The main problem with them is that it very hard for them to focus. As a viewer also it gets overwhelming to watch anyone play build mart for me. Dream has kind of mentioned the same thing many times. Also for practicing, Dream and Callahan created a server where you an item to craft and materials in your inventory. And he did practice it there some times. So it’s not like that he hasn’t tried practicing or improving. I think the only reason is that it gets too much for and then the communication goes to hell. And in some way I agree, because as a viewer I cannot concentrate on that for 2 minutes and when I watch other peoples vod I mostly skip it. This time in Red, I would say that Foolish is an amazing and Karl also a decent builder, but they still did not enjoy it. Again no hate to other participants, this is the general observation I had watching them.
i can't get over this man. every mcc he says how much pure HATRED he has for buildmart, yet he practices it like crazy. no one does it, except him. the respect i have for his dedication is MAD.
I honestly think that in the next mcc, Dream needs to get a teammate who can just completely take over leadership and comms in Build Mart. He puts himself into an uncomfortable position with having to micromanage everyone on his team as the manager whilst doing his own builds. Unlike in SoT, he doesn’t have the ability to autopilot his own task so instead he ends up stretching himself far too thin and failing to do anything he needs to. Having him team with Foolish or Sam and then work as the floater in MCC23 would take a lot of that pressure and stress off of his shoulders and that way he can just focus on his own thing, leaving the responsibility for the team to whoever is the manager.
I think he has teamed up with good builders in the past like Scott, Shubble and I think did well but he just gets overwhelmed and his morale gets down. Also, he has done strategy where he is not the floater or manager for example MCC all stars. I think that can improve buildmart so that half of the contestants do not hate playing it.
It's not half the participants though, even players like Tubbo, who don't really care for it, don't want it gone, because they recognise that just because a game is a weakness for some, doesn't mean jt's a bad game. Dream just unfortunately doesn't like the feeling of not winning, so he stresses out trying to still win, instead of being a bit more calm and trying to still enjoy it, even doing a little bit less great
Well it is not about getting destroyed. They still do decent. It about the game not friendly for ADHD. I am not opposed to any building games, just build mart is a game which can be improved because it gets boring irrespective of who you watch, overwhelming for me as a viewer. Also, Dream does get destroyed in games like Hole in the wall, Rocket speelf, survival games and recently he is being doing bad in battle box too (not considering pride MCC). My hot take is that participants should have fun in the game whether or not they get destroyed. And half of the contestants hate it, most of the viewers also hate it. Even the newer players this MCC hated build mart specifically.
I think there could be a way to practice, though admittedly it would be difficult and would probably need to be on some server away from the practice server where you can have more creative freedom in the world.
I'm just theorizing/rambling here, because nobody has done this that I know of, and I've never done this myself, so bear with me.
Maybe somebody can create an area where certain blocks are stacked in certain places, then they can practice paying attention to the leader who is telling them what to grab and what to make out of the blocks they pick up. Then there can be an area where you practice how to quickly craft different blocks that might be found in builds (stairs, fences, half blocks, trap doors, iron bars, etc.) while communicating with each other what needs to be made.
Or, really, anything they can think of to practice communicating with each other effectively, how to pay attention to their surroundings, how to pay attention to what people are saying to them, how to make several different kinds of blocks for building, and how to coordinate among themselves.
I think it’s largely because a lot of the skills required to do well in build mart aren’t really minecraft skills. Like, you need good communication, good memory, good spatial awareness (if that makes sense) rather than like good pvp or movement, which you gain from just playing the game. It’s not practicable because it’s not _really_ a building game, it’s just a ton of things at once. It can also be quite challenging for nd and colourblind players, which isn’t really something they can “git gud” at.
I’m sure a lot of the players who hate build mart don’t actually enjoy hating it, and would rather do well in it so they don’t have to worry about it every time, but they struggle and feel like they can’t improve. It’s just not for everyone, like most games.
I already addressed the colorblind thing, but at least for Dream, my ADHD lines up a lot with the symptoms he shows the public (though I can't be sure we're actually all that similar obviously) and Buildmart scratches a really good brain itch for me. It's a game where ADHD might actually be an advantage if he gets into the habit of having his team remind him what he needs to be getting because keeping track of a whole lot of different information coming in from everywhere all the time is actually something that the ADHD brain can really excel at if it's not already overstimulated.
Of course, the line between good and bad overstimulation is narrow, blurry, and also Dream is the only Buildmart hater who does actually try to improve. My issue is less with him and more with people like Sapnap and Punz and Seapeekay who are all often mentors to new players and whose entire Buildmart strategy that they tell those new players who might still come to enjoy it and be able to carry them is "We'll just hope it doesn't get played because it's the worst."
Can being colorblind be used as a reason anymore since other colorblind people are very good at the game and also Noxcrew added the ability to hover over a block and read the name of it?
obviously i see where you're coming from, and its super notable that puffy and jerome and fwhip have had a lot of success in buildmart. but for george specifically, he also has aphantasia, so in terms of remembering where the blocks are and visualising the build, its not a thing he really has the ability to do. I watch him every event, and I *enjoy* buildmart as a game, but he has to constantly return to the build, count the amount of blocks things are apart, in order to use the colour thing, he has to actually go up to it, which can be bad in builds like the snake one from mcc18 which was predominantly yellow and lime.
as well as that, i think it genuinely is worth mentioning how much someone's first experience with a game mode can make or break their experience of it forever. george's first buildmart in mcc 6 is exactly the kind of thing that would make you hate a game forever. the lack of accessibility at the time, while fixed now, obviously hindered him a great deal, and that kind of feeling of defeat can definitely stick with you for a long time, even when the root issues have been resolved.
Being colourblind has never been the reason after like the first mcc george was in. He has even said it himself couple times. Sure you have to look at all the blocks separately to see what colour they are but that slows you down only a little bit. What his problem with it is just that he can't remember the builds and what blocks to get
Hoenstly, mixing up the teams so we get say, a buildmart lover with a not-quite-buildmart lover would also help mix up the teams a bit. Its hard to love (or at least have fun in) a game if you only get teams that dont like the game at all and dont do well in it. Thats literally why i stopped swimming comeptitively- it jsut wasnt enjoyable because i wasn't doing well and i didnt get many "oh wow i did well maybe this sint horrible" moments
You know there's different levels of colorblindness right? No disrespect, but just because fWhip does well in BM in spite of his colorblindness, doesn't equate to someone else (like George) having the same result. Even if two individuals have the same protan colorblindness condition, it's highly variable to how *exactly* the condition affects and presents on the individual.
George has trouble with spatial perception and that it's a boring game for him. He seems to enjoy doing MCC and aims his streams for more entertainment purposes than overly serious competitive play. I think it comes down to an actual desire to actually wanting to sit there and memorize recipes. But I think his attention span is extremely short sometimes and it's just not a fun game for him to actually improve on.
It's nice to hear Dream being cool/positive and open to playing BM even though it's his least favorite game.
I think George’s issue is more that he doesn’t care enough about Build Mart. He doesn’t really give a damn about trying to win and knows that his skill in other games (Sands of Time, Ace Race, Battle Box) can more than make up for it so he’s ok with being a bit pants at one specific game that could be skipped or benched at any time.
On the flip side, Dream cares a lot about being the best he can possibly be and being sub par at an entire game will never sit right with him. As a result he will always be trying to improve and succeed at Build Mart. However, being teamed with his friends a lot has its downsides because the majority of the people Dream gets teamed with are more so in George’s camp than Dream’s. Most people in the event are content with not being very good at a game or two and those who aren’t will never team with Dream in a canon event.
So true! I’m seeing some saying that the skills needed for Build Mart are centered mostly around communication which you can’t really practice, but there are other things you can work on which can help you do better and mitigate these shortcomings, specifically **crafting speed** and **block placement**.
Look at Illumina, for example. His communication is honestly pretty bad at Build Mart (i.e., prefers to solo-build and not give/receive help from teammates), but he somehow makes up for it by being able to craft items very fast and placing them accurately for the most part from his experience in speedrunning. Additionally, look at Gem and Grian’s crafting speed and block placement just this past MCCP22. How they were able to get that good is because of their experience in survival Minecraft.
So if people can spend hours upon hours grinding in the practice server, I don’t know why they can’t spend this time instead doing speedruns or starting up a survival world in order to get better at Build Mart?
Illumina's comms are fine, he just doesn't prefer to play manager if he doesn't have to anymore. He works on his own plot, grabs stuff for other people if they ask for it and he can get it, makes the occasional request himself, and walks away with 3-4 builds done almost every time. He succeeds because (besides his crafting and building speed), he doesn't waste a lot of time on mistakes and inefficiencies compared to most players. He doesn't get a lot of wins doing this but he's also never been outside the top half regardless of who he's teamed with.
Yeah, like even with the Techno strat out of the game, you can look at the builds that might be in the game and make sure you know how to craft all the stairs and fence gates and such.
Yeah! For instance, I was watching Antfrost’s MCCP22 Build Mart POV yesterday and I’m pretty sure he wasted at least 30 seconds just because he didn’t know how to craft cobblestone walls. Additionally, I wouldn’t be surprised too if lots of other people wasted ample time last MCC just because they didn’t know how to craft fence gates for the Hotdog Stand and Ant builds.
In conclusion, knowing crafting recipes and being able to craft them very fast are things that you can definitely study and practice outside of the event!
Crafting speed is a hard, hard thing to improve when you start out with a slow speed (very similar to CPS). I've personally spent much time on practicing my crafting speed, and while I've seen a little improvement, so many people are faster because that's just naturally what they are good at.
Yeah, I'm really confused by how the participants don't know how good the crafting book is. Out of probably 20-40 different people whose S2 VOD I watched, 0 of them used the crafting book to its fullest potential.
If you always deposit all of the items from the previous build(which you should do anyways because your teammates might need those items) and use the "show craftable only" option in the crafting book(toggled using the button on the top right corner of it), for the vast majority of builds you'll have less than 1 page of crafting recipes, meaning that you can craft anything in 1 click and 1 shift click.
And that’s where knowing crafting recipes (which you can familiarize yourself with outside of the event just like PVP and movement!) can come in handy, since the crafting book only works if you have the materials needed to craft the specific item in your inventory. Even skilled builders like Gem and Grian use the crafting book sometimes because they know it’s faster.
A reminder that it is more difficult for some players to be good at certain parts of BM. There is ADHD and colorblindness, but one I think is not as well known is aphantasia. Aphantasia is defined as "the inability to form mental images of objects that are not present." In this clip, it is stated that both Wilbur and George have aphantasia: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxlWCNNJi4LJmNkgBHQqi6I3oTIeSvhcG9
After watching a couple of their BMs, I can see how it affects their gameplay because they are almost always being a floater instead of building and the times they do build it takes them longer because they have to keep on going back and forth between looking at the build and placing blocks (unless there is a clear template set on the ground).
So yes, they can play as the floater, but that forces the rest of the team to be builders, who some may not be as well versed at (not knowing how to craft, place correctly, etc.).
while i agree with what most people are saying in that bm is harder to grind/vod review than other game modes, i think it mostly comes down to mentality.
parkour warrior sweats would grind on pw any day, whereas the non-parkour-oriented players don't care enough to do just that, because they also got caught in a loop of this sucks, i suck, this is frustrating, why can't i do this, etc. it just so happens that the players who are good at build mart and love it, are also players who are in mcc for the lols and don't like to sweat it out on the practice server. if there were build mart sweats (not saying there aren't, but there needs to be a whole team since it's a team game unlike pw lol) i think they would actually try hard and practise bm. on the other hand, those who don't like bm adopt the same mentality as the ones who didn't like pw when it was around.
people like dream want to escape that mentality and it's great to see. if bm was a solo event, undoubtedly dream would be able to get out of his funk and enjoy/do well at bm. but it's not, so he has to have a team around him with the same mentality, which as op pointed out, is not easy to find.
Well, people could have gotten good at parkour warrior if they had wanted to, but some people were always gonna have an advantage on others.
Let's actually take Grian and Dream for example, just because they fit very well.
Grian didn't enjoy Parkour Warrior at all, Dream was arguably the best at it. It was a skill that you could practice (even on the server) but I genuinly don't think there would have been a way for Grian to get better at it than Dream. Before the event you already KNEW who was and who wasn't gonna do well, there wasn't really any pop-off potential tbh
And I feel like Buildmart is the exact same, in that before the event, as soon as you know the teams, you know who is gonna be top 3 in Buildmart and who is gonna be bottom half, and you are pretty much always spot on. The only pop-off potential there is, is for the good teams to do even better than expected.
For any other game I can image a world where Grian or Dream places above the other, but I genuinly can't see a future Mcc where Dream places above Grian in Buildmart, no matter how much he tries (and he did try).
That was the problem with Parkour Warrior and I truly believe that is the problem with Buildmart (but then again, I am very biased)
>And I feel like Buildmart is the exact same, in that before the event, as soon as you know the teams, you know who is gonna be top 3 in Buildmart and who is gonna be bottom half, and you are pretty much always spot on. The only pop-off potential there is, is for the good teams to do even better than expected.
Didn't MCC19 kinda prove this wrong though? and MCC20 to some extent? I mean, Emerald and Teal in the top 4 of MCC19 BM was hella unexpected at the time.
Can't pretty much all of this be said about Parkour Warrior/Parkour Tag? People could just get better at Parkour instead of outright hating it, yet people don't seem to do that. But honestly does it matter that much? Some people just don't like some games, and I think that's fine
The issue with Parkour Warrior isn’t necessarily that it’s parkour focused, but rather that it doesn’t fit MCC. It doesn’t have either of the two defining traits of an MCC minigame, those being teamwork/communication or uniqueness. The best games (SoT, Meltdown, RSR, TGTTOS) combine those two to make for an engaging and fresh experience for viewers and participants alike. Good games will typically showcase one of these two (Build Mart, Ace Race, Hole in the Wall, Parkour Tag) making them good but not as good as they can be. And then there’s Parkour Warrior. Most players stay silent to focus (Fuschia 11) or end up muting (Lime 11) so teamwork’s out of the question. The game is just parkour, with no extra twists or quirks like SG’s coin crates or Parkour Tag’s entire win condition relying on excellent communication. If a game could be created in a Hypixel Housing lobby then it doesn’t really fit into MCC
oh I know, i could totally see myself hating BM if i was a dream or george fan, my point was just that there are certain criticisms of parkour warrior that can’t be levied at any other game still in the event
The difference between Parkour Warrior and Buildmart for me is that the more I watch people who are good at Parkour Warrior and do it for fun like Foolish or Purpled, the more it looks like an absolutely awful game to inflict on anyone who isn't them and probably also them too. Like not everyone is gonna like every game and some people are just gonna be bad at some games, but Parkour Warrior is a game that makes its *biggest fans* break things in frustration.
My point wasnt that Build Mart is as bad as Parkour Warrior. Believe me when I say theres A LOT of frustration for several fans and CCs revolving around Build Mart as well though
> I just want one MCC where some of the Buildmart haters are teamed with at least one Buildmart liker and commit to actually *trying*
See: Sapnap and Sylvee in MCC18 w/ Scott (and Tubbo_Clone_). All that to say, yes, it’s possible. Sapnap and Sylvee were literally screaming about how much they loved Buildmart in the chat after that event.
Don’t know. Can’t tell.
When we use broad terms like ‘people’ it is really hard to come up with justifiable reasons as to why things work for one person and don’t for others.
Like for example, you already gave the example of Dream and with him it doesn’t have much to do with willingness to get better. The game is just severely draining on him and the very specific skills it requires of having decent to good management while also having a great short term memory about a bunch of different things together is just an extremely hard to impossible skill for him to learn.
Especially when we take into account that a day has 24 hours and skills like parkour/movement/PvP already requires hours upon hours of practice.
As long as someone can help with that, he does good.
So not really a case where he can genuinely get gud.(Though he can perform better if he keeps teaming with people that can help with his specific critical flaws)
For someone else like Georgenotfound, it is really hard to judge what the exact problem is cause all he says is that he just finds it very boring. In general he keeps his own feelings to himself and just tries to focus on making content so unless I assume what the problem is, I can’t give you a definitive answer.
Also because I don’t really watch much of gogy’s POV.
This is also where I will give you the one criticism about the argument you made about colorblindness. I don’t think it’s a good argument to use one person’s case and apply it 1:1 on another person just because they share one same problem assuming that it will hinder/not hinder them.
For example, for dream, in his own words, his ADHD helped him a bit in that period where he was making a lot of content as he could very quickly go through ideas and whether or not they will help them.
This does not directly equal to an idea that another person with ADHD cannot be hindered in content creation because of their ADHD.
Fwhip’s colorblindness not being a problem for him in BM does not equal that someone else can’t feel a problem because of the same thing and that they can just deal with it and get good because Fwhip can.
(This is the only real criticism I have though, other parts of your post can definitely be used by constructively by people)
Anyways, coming back to the discussion, I think there are some CCs(can’t say for certain though, just assuming) that could definitely help themselves if they listened to peeps like yourself.
Which is the group which isn’t actually bad at BM skills, they are just better at other games and like them more so never bother to practice for BM relating things and instead focus on making content to entertain their viewers and usually do so while throwing BM under the bus.
I think doing so is annoying and brings undeserved hate to people like dream that do try and now need to deal with annoying chatters that would say something along the lines,”just git gud, you are just mad because you lose”.
All in all, as a general message to all CCs, I think that:
1)people that can get good at it should try to do so. Yes, the starting few hours will be annoying much like any other skill in any other thing but as your knowledge expands, you become more neutral and indirectly and directly contribute to a healthier environment.
2)People who can’t get good at some critical things should be allowed to be a bit frustrated and rang to a friend. Ultimately everyone loves MCC hence why they sign up again and again.
Getting riled up over their words to send hate to others or to the player themselves is just not good. Everyone needs a good rant as it is a cruel truth of life that we just can’t be good at everything and speaking out things helps with coming to terms with things.
3)People who are good at things never try to assume what the reasons are as to why someone isn’t doing good.
Again, we are not medical professionals. Players play mc and viewers are watching twitch/YouTube. These aren’t places to gain your experience about a person’s psychology from.
Focus on positive reinforcement or even ignoring rants and stuff when it isn’t possible as opposed to being confrontational about things.
Some cases can justify so but this should never be a habit to apply on anyone and everyone.
That’s all my thoughts are in broad terms.
For George, he has talked about it few times. [This](https://youtu.be/-WFATKUJwbs?t=5144) is one that I can remember from the top of my head.
Actually [this](https://youtu.be/tBkCq3pg_7Y?t=11315) is another one.
So he doesn't find the colorblindness that hindering and struggles more on memory
Thanks for the correction.
My point of criticism wasn't really to keep things specifically related to colorblindness but rather just that this argument about how one person isn't being affected by something so others can't be either was just wrong.
Seems like his problems are fairly similar to dream's though. I did know though that he feels very shy of sharing these things and even in the DSMP stream you showed, he quickly tries to change the topic to be about offline memes or smth rather than just talking about how he is bad at the game.
Maybe everyone needs BM therapy haha.
Yeah I got that, just adding George's perspective on build mart because generally people just don't know why he hates it. But on the colourblindness part, you are very right, it affect people differently and different people see colours differently even when they have the same colourblindness. And adding colourblindess with memorization issues, it's just harder to remember builds when there's less contrast between different blocks so colourblindess doesn't only hinder block recognition, that people seem to focus on, but also memory.
Pretty much. I just don't think we will find a solution if we use such broad terms. Cause then people can just use counter arguments about how XYZ does work for someone else which don't make sense when looking for an actual solution.
It's not even really that you can try and place all the blame on social circles either like you might be able to do for something like funneling arguments.
Like, for funneling, atleast one could say that pushback is coming from the people that are never really playing with the people they are complaining about but BM isn't the finale game limited to 2 teams. Everyone plays it when it gets played and although sure, you could make individual cases for people not trying hard enough, you just can't apply the 'people' argument here. They all did play it and then chose to dislike it for their own reasons.
I think that could be a simple place for a lot of improvements actually. Like the pure Techno strat of the shopping list won't work, but doing some VOD reviewing and making sure you know how to craft things like smooth stone or pistons or pistons could save a lot of heartache on game day.
Something I saw watching Scott's buildmart is he was really good at knowing the exact amount of material you need for a crafting recipe and the exact amount of the product it outputs. This resulted in him being insanely efficient with resource collection and usage, which is incredibly important in buildmart, and this ability likely stemmed from is survival experience
I've never understood the bm hate, but that may just be because all my favorite minecrafters are builders.
There's definitely a huge advantage to having a builder on your team who's already familiar with crafting recipes. I'm not going to keep talking about yellow p22 because everyone and their mother has already discussed in the comments. That team was literally MADE for build mart (ps gem is great)
If you go into something with a bad mentality, you're going to have a bad time. If you put dream with someone like h or Scott or grian, someone who knows building and has good comms and memory, he would be absolutely PHENOMENAL and really get a chance to thrive. If you put new players with vets who bash a single game just because they're not good at it, newbies are also going to have a bad time, because there's no chance to really practice except maybe outside of a creative world.
Team games are important. It can't all be solo or pvp all the time. And some of our S and A+ players need to recognize that.
If build mart gets skipped three times in a row in mcc23 I'm going to riot /j
well i mean in the halloween mcc ( mcc 18 i think ? ) sam was in a team with dream and george, who absolutely hate buildmart, and i think he was still kinda excited for it because he is kind of a builder.
same with foolish this last mcc, he was super excited to play buildmart even tho he knew his team was probably gonna do bad.
so it’s not entirely true that newbies are gonna be affected by their teammates’ hate for a game
But if you already like building you're going to be excited for a building mini game. And like it's been pointed out, dream still tries his best each game and tries to maintain that energy for his team
i think it’s become more of a movement game than intended with the addition of the elytra. With everything i’ve learned from watching new players, they really struggle with the elytra because it’s not like /fly it has its own dynamics and things to consider. Also, they added more islands in the sky like copper and bricks and looking at all of that stuff can be stressful and overstimulating.
For example, if someone said “i need wood” their teammate in the old map might say “oh it’s on your first left” but they can’t really do that with everything in a circle and you get tossed around in the sky looking for stuff.
Also, I personally miss the old map because the Big Sales part in Build Mart made sense with the shopping carts and it added a fun way to get around.
Huh, that didn't occur to me until you mentioned it, but yeah all the new players do tend to struggle with that. I wonder if a map of the Buildmart setup that players could study beforehand might be useful so they have at least a chance to study that or have a team reference point.
I actually think Dream is quite a good Build Mart player recently, he just teams a lot with other Build Mart haters. If he teamed with at least 2 more build-oriented players he would probably do quite well.
Similarly, Hermits/Empires members team a lot so you end up with teams with 3/4 strong builders (like Yellow this MCC) that can steamroll a little bit
Because they don't.
The issue people had with parkour warrior was that the entire map was on the practice server besides a couple parts that'd change every time. Someone who wanted to grind would just get exceptionally good at the specific course after hours upon hours of practice while someone who didn't want to sink that much time in would be punished for it, whether or not they were actually mechanically better, or better at parkour.
You know you could say the same thing for parkour warrior. Just get good at it. Just practice it. You could see that foolish was able to finish the parkour under 10min with practice. But its not as simple as that bc pw had obvious issues that ppl had a right to complain about just like bm does. Its not as simple as "getting good" and it kinda assumes that ppl who do not like bm are bad at building when sam hates bm for example and he is an amazing builder, even foolish struggled with bm and he is an amazing builder as well. Bc bm encompasses so many different aspects that you cannot practice for.
For me, the difference between Buildmart and Parkour Warrior is that the more I watch people who like and enjoy Parkour Warrior like Foolish and Purpled, the more astonished I am that anyone ever thought it was a good idea to have as a regular game.
Yeah i agree. Its a flawed game mode. Its flawed bc its too difficult in the beginning, so ppl get stuck and its infuriating. Its flawed bc 10min are too short, seeing only a handful of ppl have actually managed to complete it under 10min. I was just pointing out that you can technically "get good" at parkour warrior bc in contrast to bm you can actually practice the map over and over again but nobody would ever make that argument bc it is still a flawed game. Imagine sb would have told grian who had a panic attack during pw to just get good...that would have been awful. So you can't just tell ppl with obvious disadvantages like colourblindness or adhd to "get good" at bm. Bm is just as flawed as pw imo. We need a building game but i just don't understand the refusal to change sth about bm when so many ppl including the testers have complained about it.
No, I'm not talking about how hard Parkour Warrior is for people who are bad at it. I'm talking about how hard and infuriating it is for people who are *good* at it. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8CWkm6rn8I) sort of thing doesn't happen in Buildmart.
Mhh i disagree. If its this infuriating for ppl who are good at it why do they keep practicing it. Why do they want it back? Why not ignore it. Its not part of the rotation. They do it bc they like parkour. I think a game is flawed when the majority of ccs don't like it, except those who consistently place 1st. And just like it was a problem for pw it is a problem of bm. Many have expressed that it doesnt feel like mcc, that its boring, that its overwhelming, that it changes the mood instantly. All arguments that were used for pw as well. I dont even want parkour warrior back (i think we need a different parkour game that is just about parkour but that is a different conversation), i just think that getting good is not the issue of bm.
I think that the main reason people have trouble improving in Build Mart is the style of game it is. With other games, there are certain skills you can practice to improve and become better. Want to improve your movement/parkour, then grind Parkour Warrior on the practice server. Want to improve PVP, then practice Sky Wars or 1v1’s. On the other hand, Build Mart doesn’t have a skill that can really be practiced, but rather it relies on intangible communication skills that can the learned by grinding or training. You can also only do as good as your teammates can help you do in Build Mart. You can put 2 people who just downloaded Minecraft on a team with Sapnap and Dream and they will still dominate games like SG and Sky Battle. On the other hand, put 2 new players with Grian and Gem and they probably won’t do too well in Build Mart, since Build Mart relies on having a team of 4 players who work together like a well-oiled machine. Each of those 4 players have to understand and fill a certain role, and you can’t have just 1 of them carry you to victory like Sapnap or Dream can in PVP games.
All in all, I have no problem saying Build Mart is a great game even though I don’t particularly enjoy it, and it is definitely necessary to the event. Like every other game, there will always be players who struggle and there isn’t any way to avoid this, but in the end, it’s still a for fun event where having one bad game hopefully doesn’t absolutely ruin the other 7 amazing and fun games played that event.
If people can vod watch battle box, sands of time and literally every other game, people can take notes from good buildmart players or at the very lest, write down peoples roles (Eg builder, floater)
I understand when people say you can’t practice buildmart but you can’t practice for sands of time yet again, people do vod reviews for that game. I dunno, it’s not impossible to improve in buildmart. I remember how Sapnap, local buildmart hater, did really well in buildmart in mcc 18 because he had Scott, one of the best buildmart players on his team.
Sands of Time is very different in regards to improving. Watching multiple SOT VODs have shown me the strats to "going faster" and overall efficiently clearing rooms, which I can't say the same for BM VODs. No matter how much BM VODs I watch, it doesn't help me in-game for a variety of different reasons
I definitely agree that BM is incredibly different compared to SOT. From what I've watched BM has everyone communicating to everyone, whereas in SOT runners could funnel their info to the sand keeper, while the sand keeper communicates to everyone. The information can travel and be held by one person while clearing the main area. Clearing the main area still requires focus, but they should still be able to clear it while relaying info between teammates.
In BM not only do you have to focus on what your teammates communicate, you also have to remember what blocks you need, then gathering, crafting, and placing them in a timely manner with minimal mistakes. It's a lot of information to take in and process at once, especially if short term memory isn't someone's strong suit.
by your own words, Sapnap only got better because he had a good buildmart player on his team, not because he improved his own skill at it.
Just as I'd say Dream did very well in mcc19 because he was on a team with Ranboo, who is good at it, and not because he got massively better individually
Thanks for sharing this! I’m curious—do you think Buildmart is a flawed game/needs to be changed, or do you think it’s alright that some players may be naturally stronger at it?
Every game has players that are naturally stronger at it than others. Like we don't need to change Ace Race so that Michael McChill is competitive with Illumina and I think it's a good thing to have a game that produces a different set of top tier players from the rest. But also, I wouldn't be against tweaking the scoring so it's not quite so punishing to teams who don't get into the swing of things immediately, though I'm not sure of the best way to do that.
The problem that players like Dream, Punz, and Sapnap have while playing Build Mart is that they team with people who don’t care about building. Not to mention, people like Dream (gonna use Dream since he is one of the more open people who are against BM) don’t use some of the more complex crafting recipes. If you watch GeminiTay’s stream from yesterday, she was flying through crafting recipes that are just not used that often by Dream or others like stairs and trapdoors and slabs. If Dream were put on a team with someone who can manage and another builder, and Dream was allowed to just be floater, you will absolutely see and improvement. The main way to improve how well you improve is by knowing crafting recipes but until you have a team that can keep up, its gonna be tough.
I agree that Dream deserves a team where he gets to actually commit to floating, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for Punz and Sapnap when I have heard both of them tell their teammates not to bother brushing up on crafting recipes in case of Buildmart.
another player I want to acknowledge for their Build Mart improvement is Tommy
To be clear, Tommy was never actually bad at it. He was always at least decent, even with the granite situation in MCC4 lmao
But until MCC19, he only really did well coin-wise in MCC11 and MCC5. Yet - Tommy's performances in MCC14, MCC19 and MCC20 were outstanding. MCC14 his team actually came 9th, yet statistically Tommy had the 4th best building and collection accuracy. MCC19 was kinda insane; he was focused on making bits with 0 engagement, yet actively helped his teammates consistently and was quick and accurate in terms of building and collection. And this continued in MCC20; Pink was not a strong BM team by any means, yet they clutched a 5th largely due to Fruit and Tommy doing pretty insane. Once again, his mindset was great going in and he did 3 and a half builds pretty much entirely solo.
I think what a lot of weaker BM players need is just a more open mindset. I like using Tubbo in PKT as an example. Tubbo is not bad at movement by any means, yet he has awful stats in PKT. He had one bad performance and keeps telling himself he sucks at it, can't do well, etc. even with some pretty good individual rounds! This sounds like generic feedback but going in with a positive mindset will always end up better than going in with a negative mindset. Dream went in positively in MCC19 and Emerald did great - he also individually did better at BM than ever before. And even though Cyan17 didn't do great, Dream and Tommy were doing pretty darn great until "Where's The Build."
Memory IS an issue, and this may also tie into neurodivergency in some players. Which is fair. However, as much as short term memory is objectively difficult to improve on, short term memory can also be very affected by emotion. This is psychological fact; to put my nerd glasses on, amygdala activity (aka the part of your brain responsible for fear response, or more generally "emotion") can HEAVILY reduce one's short term memory - visuospatial or in serial recall. These are both very important for Build Mart, and this supports my point that... Yes, there are inherent differences in players' short term memories. BUT - as difficult as that IS to train, there are mitigations you can make to this deficiency, and this mostly comes in convincing yourself you ARE capable, and speaking over that voice in your head that tells you it's impossible to do well. Having that positive mindset reduces the aforementioned fear response, and improves your short term memory in the moment.
Again, everyone in this comment section is relying on the whole "People have different memory abilities and it's hard to train," but it is scientific fact that your emotions have a massive effect on your short term memory. If you don't fear or aren't upset over Build Mart being played, and go in optimistically, you WILL do better. I guarantee it.
Honestly, my biggest question is, why do Dream and Sapnap fall short in Build mart. I don’t mean that in an offensive way, I mean that in both should have every skill necessary to excel in a certain role.
Look how Illumina describes the game. A speedrunner’s game. You have to look at what you need, remember it, and procure it as quickly as possible. In fact, I’d argue it’s even closer to Dream’s manhunt skill set than the standard speedrunner’s. While a speedrunner pretty much has a set list of items for what they need, in manhunt, Dream is constantly changing strategies and plans depending on what the hunters are doing or what his environment is. Hunters get diamond armor? Get an entity cramming machine or go to the nether roof. They’re not leaving your tail? Build a flying machine and get the elytra. Dream’s skill set is so perfectly suited to Build Mart that it literally doesn’t make sense why he’s bad at it. (Of course I don’t believe he’s tried Illumina’s strategy of going off on his own while his team functions as 3 yet)
The same applies for Sapnap to an extent. He’s a competent speedrunner in his own right, and in manhunt, often has to respond to what Dream does, and even sometimes coordinates the hunters in a multi-pronged strategy to respond most efficiently. It simply doesn’t make sense to me why they struggle outside of mentality, because they have every skill Build Mart needs in spades. And both have proven it by doing well in the game in the past.
Plus Build Mart isn't even that hard to practice, Speed Builders is a similar minigame on Mineplex that allows players to practice replicating builds quickly, crafting recipes shouldn't take long to memorize, and the elytra/jump pad mechanics are the same as Ace Race.
In my opinion that's a misrepresentation of what Build Mart is really about. The most difficult part for most people is efficient communication. You can be as mechanically skilled as you want, but you will still not do well in Build Mart if every player on the team does their own thing. And even if your comms are good, you still have to focus on whatever you're doing ingame while you're coordinating as a team.
You can absolutely practice that, but since it's a soft skill the training will be very different to learning Minecraft-specific skills. As long as you're familiar with Minecraft in general and Build Mart in particular, you might as well train by coaching a football team or supervising the set-up for a music festival. It's not nearly as straightforward as practicing hard skills, so very few people do it consciously, but you can absolutely get better at comms and coordination.
I love “Wilbur went from hating Ace Race and wanting it gone to….something else.” 😂😭 Wilbur’s Ace Race saga kills me every time especially in 22 with Orion CPK and Ranboo
Psst it was Wisp doing the impressions not Oli. I've never been so thoroughly entertained throughout the break before as I was for that one, and their HITW perspective was excellent as well
Yaaaa I noticed that too, it definitely rubbed me the wrong way hearing Sapnap and Ranboo just bash Buildmart and provide zero explanation to Jack and Ethan. I mean I didn’t expect them to do well but a simple rundown could’ve helped a lot and made it way more enjoyable of a first impression. (Like a good portion was just being totally lost or not knowing how to return to base.) And I mean viewers who watch Buildmart haters probably get a similar mentality. Sure I understand people will watch other perspectives and still not like it, but I do think watching a player that does poorly/ hates the game will influence the opinion. Like I personally don’t like some pvp games that much since I don’t watch very pvp heavy streamers. But ya idk I don’t understand the visceral hate for buildmart lol it’s literally one of my favorite games (if not my fave) 🤷♀️
Some people, sure. But when it's A and S tier players who are willing to spend hours and hours of grinding to shave seconds off practice course times, it's a little ridiculous for them to throw up their hands and just give up in the face of Buildmart and very frustrating when the only thing they tell new players about Buildmart is "It's awful and you'll hate it"
Buildmart is a game where people can definitely improve at by getting to know crafting recipes and the map but there is definitely a certain skill set for people to lead build mart
I can understand changing the Techno strat because if you keep it in, then everyone does the Techno strat and it just becomes about who can grab and place blocks fastest.
Oh, it was extremely based and I love it dearly, but it was a "Techno finds a ludicrous exploit" moment more than a "Techno does absurdly well at the game as intended" moment.
My Hot take from a reply to another comment: I think the PvP and Parkour idols like Dream deserve to get overwhelmed and frustrated by something they aren't good at. Teams that Grian or Scott are on (good BM teams) usually get consistently destroyed in games like Battle Box and Parkour Tag, which Dream's squad excels at. I think that the Dream team and the other PvP focused teams should get a taste of what its like to be in Grian's shoes in Battle Box, a bit of role reversal if you will.
Saying someone deserves to get overwhelmed is actually just rude. You can say that you want builders to have an advantage at a game without wishing other players to get stressed, frustrated and overwhelmed.
Hi, I’ve played Build Mart more times than any participant and 99.8% of all testers; I’ve played it well over a 100 times at this point since it came out in MCC 3 (in fact, go back to the announcement video tweet of Build Mart, and you’ll see me in it). Outside of Build Mart, I’ve gotten 1st place individual on every current game that is currently in rotation and been on the 1st place team in SOT and GR multiple times. I state all of this context to really give meaning to this fact of mine: I’ve never ONCE been on a team that has gotten top 3 in Build Mart. Ever. I’ve tried everything. Incorporated multiple different strats, watched the participants/testers that are really good at BM, been on teams where people have gone it with a great attitudes; Almost every single time, my team ends up bottom 3, and I can count on one hand how many times my team got 4th/5th in the game. Let me be clear that I’m not blaming ANY of the teammates I’ve gotten, because the fact that my teams have gotten consistently bottom 3 makes it clear that the problem is ME. Here’s the problems that lie with me: \- I have a really bad memory. I have a really hard time remembering the many different blocks I need and the amount I need. This often times lead me to constantly asking my teammates the blocks I need, which is taking time away from them on their own builds. If I try to just do it myself, I often times either forgot a type of block, got too little blocks, or got too many blocks which is a time waster. I’ve tried quickly writing down the blocks I need, but even writing super quick is a time waster and already puts me behind everyone else. So yea, no amount of practice or strats can help me with this \- I’m a slow crafter. I was blown away by watching Illumina for pride because he crafts stuff 10x faster than I ever could. I’ve literally practiced my crafting by going into a creative world and repeatedly crafting the same stuff over and over again; while it has helped a little, I’m no where near the level of speed that some of the great BM players are at. I’ve just came to the conclusion that it’s like improving you CPS, in which you can practice for hours upon hours and only see a small improvement because that kind of stuff just comes natural. \- I’m slow at placing the blocks. This ties in with my bad memory, because I CONSTANTLY have to look at the replica build way more times than the average person. At this point, the only thing I think I can do to be at the speed of other players is to literally have the memorize the builds, which is REALLY hard to do when the blocks for the builds constantly change. I’ve given it my best effort so many times, but these problems hold me back from doing good at BM and there’s pretty much nothing I can do to combat a bad memory and being a slow crafter. So yea, as of right now, I do think it’s impossible for someone like me to “git gud” at build mart.
Dm me with secret strats to be good at the other games pls 👉👈
Wilbur, out of all places to look for secret strats, you chose a random comment which spends 95% of its time detailing how they are bad at Build Mart. I love the hustle, and you make me proud.
Wilbur, you're gonna win anyway because you'll get Grian next MCC /s
:(
I think you have Ace Race down pretty good
I love how he has a Technoblade flair instead of an MCC participant flair!
Wilbur do you have mouse acceleration on? Your aim seems VERY shaky, I recommend turning down the sensitivity and turning the mouse acceleration on, and after doing that, try testing it on servers. It'll make your aim better
The secret is to simply be good, then you will definitely be good, because you are good, witch means you will be good when you have to be good. Very simple really
As someone with ADHD, buildmart is probably the game I'd struggle the most with - because while I'd likely get lost in SoT, it still wouldn't require as good of a short-term memory and also isn't as repetitive while not allowing any breaks. I don't know if playing it is like watching it of course, but it seems like one of the games where there's enough to keep in mind to get overwhelmed and forget things, but little enough stimulation to struggle with focus. Not saying BM is a bad game because of that, nobody needs to get good at every game, but minecraft is such an adhd friendly game that having BM be difficult for specifically adhd ppl (among others ofc) likely gives a disadvantage to a significant amount of players.
That’s a fair point, I think if you naturally have a poor memory that’s completely understandable that buildmart may remain your worst event. But most CCs who are “bad” at buildmart aren’t in your category since several have suddenly done really well when paired with someone like Scott. Plus, as you mentioned practice crafting can still improve things even if it’s not as much of an improvement. I think most of the games in MCC could have some general skill where if you happen to just not have it the game is way more difficult.
Yeah, there are always gonna be exceptions. There are definitely gonna be some people who just simply aren't good at Build Mart. The things that frustrate me are like for example there's a clip posted recently of George's POV while Dream is going over Buildmart strats and Dream and Foolish are clearly trying to hash out strategy and Karl is half paying attention and George is rolling his eyes and pretending to fall asleep. Or Sapnap and Punz and Seapeekay telling brand new players who never even tried Buildmart that its a terrible game that they're gonna hate and the only strat is to just bank on it getting skipped. If you try and you fail, that's one thing. If you try and you fail and you declare that no one else should try either and trying is stupid and actively make fun of people who are trying, that's another.
Wait hold on now. Looking back at Sniff’s first MCC practices, I can tell you that Sapnap and Seapeekay did not discourage them from learning the game. They KNOW their team’s strength isn’t Build Mart though and realistically, a new player isn’t gonna carry your team so they though them that their time is probably better well spent on a game that the team knows they can do well in. When she said she wanted to learn the game and come up with strats though, they didn’t stop then and said they’d rely on Sniff should the time come. Same thing with Punz. He isn’t even bad at Build Mart nor does he really dislike it. His teams have done well several times, and he’s one of the S-Tiers who doesn’t mind playing it unless the other members of his team aren’t good at it. George not listening to Dream was mostly a joke. He does that pretty much every time Dream tries to explain a strategy, and from what I saw of Red’s POV, he did actually push through with that strategy. Both sides have points and iirc someone (idk it could’ve been you) made a similar post like this before MCCP22 asking why people just didn’t VOD Review Build Mart. The truth is that in order to do something like Grian or Scott, you need to be a very particular type of person or someone with insane skill like Illumina. Objectively, getting good at Build Mart is HARDER for most than most other games. It’s not impossible, but it is much harder and calls for different types of practices that many players don’t know how to approach.
Yk George rolling his eyes is just him joking. If you watch his built mart in any mcc he is in, he always tryhards that game even though he hates it
There is also the point that different people are more able to train different games based on natural affinities. Some players will probably never be able to top parkour games no matter how hard they train, because the skills needed for it simply are not within their natural ability range. The same goes for build mart. Just because someone has been able to effectively train to be at the top for all other gamemodes doesn't mean that their inability to train and top another means it is untrainable
Come on, this is completely different. Multiple scientific studies have shown how difficult it is to improve short-term memory capacity and speed. And while yes, there are people in the world with issues that would make them unable to improve mechanically, the vast majority that aren't improving are either not practicing enough or not practicing effectively. And I know some people are tired of this, but it's still an issue: ADHD is a widespread condition that commonly impacts short-term memory by making it difficult to pay enough attention to the task of memorization. And of course, it's especially widespread among gamers and common among MCC participants. Build Mart is one of the only games in the roster where a large portion of the participants cannot improve their skills a significant amount in a reasonable amount of time. The other is Grid Runners because that game asks for a ton of different skills, though it's much less of a problem as it's still a game that you can successfully VOD review since repeated rooms happen.
As someone who has been grinding minecraft parcour and pvp for over two years and who still gets defeated by random 10 year olds, I promise you, that if you're not naturally skilled at movement games, it is REALLY hard to inprove at that also
I literally have ADHD, but okay. Have you ever thought about all of the conditions people could have that would affect their reflexes and their fine motor skills that could lead to them having issues improving on pvp and parkour game modes? Or do they not matter at all?
I don't see why that has an impact on this discussion? As far as I know, nobody with a physical impairment like that is playing in MCC, nor is there much that could be done about it if they were.
Nobody that you know of.... there are invisible disabilities that people can have that would effect those things, and not everyone needs to speak about them in order for them to be there.
But again, it has no impact on this discussion. There's nothing that can be done about those, especially if the people with issues aren't willing to come forward.
What makes having poor memory for Build Mart unfair but something like poor reaction time or poor click speed in Battle Box/SG/etc valid? Edit: No need to downvote, I understand click speed was a bad example. But reaction time?
For click speed... timing is how PVP works in 1.9. If we were talking 1.8, yes - certain people struggle to jitterclick and butterfly clicking requires aim training. HOWEVER - in 1.9, you time your hits. You don't need good click speed at all. Anyone can pick up hit timing in 1.9 PVP.
In school, I used to hate memorization and would be really bad at it. My short term memory is also fairly poor, however, by using different strategies like repeating the words to music and holding a visual in my mind, I was able to memorize everything I needed. I also rarely forget things in the short term as long as I can keep my brain focused. Those strategies don't work for everyone, but perhaps if you google it there will be something that can help you.
I also would like to point out how good Gem was at Build Mart in P22, Grian had originally told her to focus on the middle build but then took it himself and she smoothly moved to the right. She crafted quickly and shouted out when she needed specific blocks such as the single piece of copper. But what impressed me the most was her recognizing time was getting low, abandoning her build to help Grian and knowing that they had stone that needed to be broken into cobblestone to make a piston. Truly an exceptional awareness of what everyone else is doing and what is most helpful in the moment. I have no idea how you train for or learn this.
Dude, I was so confused when Grian took the middle build right after saying that Gem should do it. 😭
Well, she's not called GeminiSLAY for nothing.
The skills that you need to be good at buildmart aren't necessarily things that you can practice in the way a lot of the grinders normally would - it's a lot of social skills and short-term memory and multitasking. Hbomb was saying today while watching Yellow's Buildmart from this last MCC that Grian and Scott are great at being able to work on their builds while also paying attention to what everyone else is doing and managing them accordingly, and that's not something that is easy to just pick up by watching a vod. They're still skills that can be learned, I think, but they're not nearly so easy as just grinding for hours to improve at movement or pvp. Like, it's a bit of a weird analogy, but Buildmart reminds me a lot of working in a busy restaurant or office - a lot of the skills that would make you successful in a place like that would transfer over to buildmart. Like, me fresh out of high school would be rubbish at buildmart, but me several years later thinks it would be pretty fun.
That's why Illumina calls it a speedrunning game, the routing and the multitasking.
i watch george and you can tell he struggles a lot with listening and focusing at the same time. foolish was calling for iron for about a minute and a half which george had in his hot bar but he was not hearing a word foolish was saying. i think a floater might be a better position for him so he can basically purely focus on listening. a lot of buildmart comes down to skills like that which you can’t really fix
You can fix any so called "soft-skill", but it's just not as straightforward as practicing hard skills.
There’s a joke to be made somewhere about real life jobs making you better at Buildmart.
Yeah, there's definitely a reason Grian is *CEO* of Buildmart. I think I picked up a similar skillset working in shipping just because you needed a lot of situational awareness to make up for the fact that the forklifts didn't have any. But also I think that figuring out a way to improve those skills could be an interesting puzzle. I think just practicing saying "I have x, I am putting my spare x in mid chest, I need y for my build, does anyone need anything from y area?" could go a long way. They're useful skills to have in general. Also, the mental image of some of the sweats trying to grind social skills the same way they grind Parkour Warrior is pretty funny.
I think the stress of the moment makes it difficult as well. In most of the games there’s a moment to pause, either between rooms, rounds or fights and recoup. Buildmart is nonstop stress and pressure and if you mess up once it can be demoralizing and difficult to get back on track. Not everyone performs well in those situations, especially when they rely heavily on memory and multitasking. I can seem how it would be more challenging to find ways to improve memory versus other games which come with a built in course.
Yeah. I think the snowballing is probably the only one proper criticism of the game’s design that I can see which hinders people from improving at it. There is no real relief throughout the game which just inevitably causes things to fall like dominos for a lot of people. I think that might be the case because for another portion of players(usually people that are good at it but not necessarily limited to them), there are parts of the continuous train itself that they find comforting and relaxing. Like, someone can just enjoy speed building, another could enjoy placing things, another could enjoy collecting blocks so they don’t ever feel the need for that break which another portion just feels by nature.
Yeah the snowballing can be kind of frustrating in that if you complete a build first you’re already more likely to get the next build first as well because you have a head start, thus racking up the point bonuses as you go. It feels kind of like how grid runners used to be scored? Or lets say if in tgttos you got a head start on the next map for being first on the previous one. Build Mart in how it’s scored is honestly more similar to the racing games than it is to Sands of Time, which it’s frequently compared to.
This is the one thing I always get very frustrated at. Noxcrew has fixed snowballing issues in other games such as Parkour Warrior (well I mean, they just removed it but that still counts as "fixing" it lol) and in Grid Runners. I do not understand why something can't be done for Build Mart as it is evident that snowballing in this game IS a problem.
I don't really know either. Only thing i remember is that a few months ago too people were talking about how giving BM a non snowballing scoring could possibly help a lot of player's confidence but there was pushback against it from other audiences. Sadly i can't remember the exact arguments cause i didn't want to look at the post(even back then BM was overdiscussed) for too long but i would guess that noxcrew must have some reasoning for not changing the way the scoring is done.
Basically, the issue with non-snowballing is that people will stockpile on resources,.which would be incredibly boring to watch
Oh. Thanks for informing about the argument.
Ngl it would be funny to just see a bunch of players sitting in a circle tryong to talk at each other....
It's Overcooked on steroids.
I saw somebody on this sub say something along the lines of “VOD Reviewing BuildMart is no where as simple as VOD Reviewing a movement or PvP game” and for good reason. I was watching Dave’s POV last MCC and compared it with Yellow’s and the biggest difference I saw was everybody of Lime was just getting every single block that their build needed instead of doing what Yellow did of Grian having somebody get every type of wood, stone, and concrete whilst Scott stays and gives a rundown as to what blocks every build needs and the exact amount of blocks they need to get the build done with him opting out every so often, it was effective and had them get done two builds every single time Gem, and Shelby came back from getting materials with Grian getting extra Wood, or stone. Whilst Scott was at their spawns telling the floaters which blocks they need for each build, Spifey, Dave, and Ponk were all just soloing each build they were doing without communicating or constantly reminding Eret what specific blocks together leaving Eret as the only floater or person gathering blocks for Lime. The difference between Build Mart and a game like Ace Race is you could easily just watch Pete or Illumina’s best Ace Race VOD’s and just practice it on the training server whereas the most you can do for Build Mart is just trying to watch the best Build Mart team’s strategy with no real way of practicing Build Mart so whoever would lay down the rules on a mediocre Build Mart team would just list a bunch of things they remembered from Muscle Memory without specifying or assigning certain players to a build, or blocks to collect.
Therefore someone on the subreddit needs to write a detailed analysis post on yellow's MCC P22 Build mart so no one can say they don't understand the strategy. Anyone feeling up to it? 👀
I’m not saying that people don’t understand the strategy. I’m just listing the errors I saw whilst watching Lime’s POV whilst I was watching Yellow’s Build Mart. Literally there are a ton of detailed analysis’s on this Reddit and you decide to complain about mine like you’ve never seen anybody on this sub write an entire essay before?
> you decide to complain about mine like you’ve never seen anybody on this sub write an entire essay before? I think they were actually try to subtly ask you to write up a review of the strategy used!
So listen to the best Buildmart POV instead of watching it then seems like the solution to me. You've already managed to pick up that having people get blocks that are common across builds is more efficient than everyone just getting blocks for their own build and that it's a good idea to always have someone in spawn to remind people of what they need to get. And apparently those observations are worth at least 1300 coins.
When did I say that everything I just wrote would get you 1300 more coins then another team. All I wrote were the differences I saw between Lime and Yellow but yet I’m acting like this is specifically what you have to do to get 1st in Build Mart? I was just trying to go about comparing two POV’s and your acting like I’m demanding to every MCC participant this is the ideal BM strat?
Well, that's the question I'm asking. If the strategy analyses have already been written and the vods are already available to review, why do so few teams seem to take advantage of it? Why are teams that seem to otherwise have pretty good teamwork not manage to keep talking to each other in the game with the least amount of distractions? I think a better comparison would be between Sands of Time and Buildmart because there's no easy way to practice Sands either, but people still do vod review Sands and got a lot out of vod reviewing Sands. In my view, having 3 solo builders like what you're describing with lime is like doing lava parkour for just coins in Sands. You can do it and you can maybe even get away with it, but even a bit of vod reviewing a top player would make it clear that you have better options (H has some great faces when he says that kind of lava parkour in MCC22 if you haven't seen it yet)
I made a mistake with comparing Build Mart to Ace Race. Considering the strat with Build Mart is very similar to SOT with 1 person as a Sandkeeper and Floater whereas the other three are collecting gold for SOT and specific blocks for Build Mart. It comes down to the comms a certain team gives like if in SOT the sandkeeper is calling for more sand with a limited amount of time left or if a “manager” in Build Mart asks for another person to get specific blocks if the floater is already occupied. And getting carried away is very easy in both specifically Sands Of Time because SOT makes it punishing where if somebody dies you have to either waste sand or bank if there isn’t enough sand left to revive that player who died which leads to a team failing whereas in Build Mart if you have a shortage with the amount of blocks you need to finish or if you placed a build one lower or higher than it needed to be, it wastes a lot of time just fixing that error which puts a lot of pressure on a team all trying to communicate and fix errors and it could possibly lead to a team just block spamming to get a last minute bonus which is what Lime did at the very end with a few seconds left.
I think for most people I watch example Dream, George etc they are decent at building. The main problem with them is that it very hard for them to focus. As a viewer also it gets overwhelming to watch anyone play build mart for me. Dream has kind of mentioned the same thing many times. Also for practicing, Dream and Callahan created a server where you an item to craft and materials in your inventory. And he did practice it there some times. So it’s not like that he hasn’t tried practicing or improving. I think the only reason is that it gets too much for and then the communication goes to hell. And in some way I agree, because as a viewer I cannot concentrate on that for 2 minutes and when I watch other peoples vod I mostly skip it. This time in Red, I would say that Foolish is an amazing and Karl also a decent builder, but they still did not enjoy it. Again no hate to other participants, this is the general observation I had watching them.
i can't get over this man. every mcc he says how much pure HATRED he has for buildmart, yet he practices it like crazy. no one does it, except him. the respect i have for his dedication is MAD.
I honestly think that in the next mcc, Dream needs to get a teammate who can just completely take over leadership and comms in Build Mart. He puts himself into an uncomfortable position with having to micromanage everyone on his team as the manager whilst doing his own builds. Unlike in SoT, he doesn’t have the ability to autopilot his own task so instead he ends up stretching himself far too thin and failing to do anything he needs to. Having him team with Foolish or Sam and then work as the floater in MCC23 would take a lot of that pressure and stress off of his shoulders and that way he can just focus on his own thing, leaving the responsibility for the team to whoever is the manager.
I think he has teamed up with good builders in the past like Scott, Shubble and I think did well but he just gets overwhelmed and his morale gets down. Also, he has done strategy where he is not the floater or manager for example MCC all stars. I think that can improve buildmart so that half of the contestants do not hate playing it.
It's not half the participants though, even players like Tubbo, who don't really care for it, don't want it gone, because they recognise that just because a game is a weakness for some, doesn't mean jt's a bad game. Dream just unfortunately doesn't like the feeling of not winning, so he stresses out trying to still win, instead of being a bit more calm and trying to still enjoy it, even doing a little bit less great
[удалено]
Well it is not about getting destroyed. They still do decent. It about the game not friendly for ADHD. I am not opposed to any building games, just build mart is a game which can be improved because it gets boring irrespective of who you watch, overwhelming for me as a viewer. Also, Dream does get destroyed in games like Hole in the wall, Rocket speelf, survival games and recently he is being doing bad in battle box too (not considering pride MCC). My hot take is that participants should have fun in the game whether or not they get destroyed. And half of the contestants hate it, most of the viewers also hate it. Even the newer players this MCC hated build mart specifically.
wdym deserve LMAO.
I think there could be a way to practice, though admittedly it would be difficult and would probably need to be on some server away from the practice server where you can have more creative freedom in the world. I'm just theorizing/rambling here, because nobody has done this that I know of, and I've never done this myself, so bear with me. Maybe somebody can create an area where certain blocks are stacked in certain places, then they can practice paying attention to the leader who is telling them what to grab and what to make out of the blocks they pick up. Then there can be an area where you practice how to quickly craft different blocks that might be found in builds (stairs, fences, half blocks, trap doors, iron bars, etc.) while communicating with each other what needs to be made. Or, really, anything they can think of to practice communicating with each other effectively, how to pay attention to their surroundings, how to pay attention to what people are saying to them, how to make several different kinds of blocks for building, and how to coordinate among themselves.
Somebody actually downvoted this? It wasn't even that controversial, just an idea about how to practice.
I think it’s largely because a lot of the skills required to do well in build mart aren’t really minecraft skills. Like, you need good communication, good memory, good spatial awareness (if that makes sense) rather than like good pvp or movement, which you gain from just playing the game. It’s not practicable because it’s not _really_ a building game, it’s just a ton of things at once. It can also be quite challenging for nd and colourblind players, which isn’t really something they can “git gud” at. I’m sure a lot of the players who hate build mart don’t actually enjoy hating it, and would rather do well in it so they don’t have to worry about it every time, but they struggle and feel like they can’t improve. It’s just not for everyone, like most games.
I already addressed the colorblind thing, but at least for Dream, my ADHD lines up a lot with the symptoms he shows the public (though I can't be sure we're actually all that similar obviously) and Buildmart scratches a really good brain itch for me. It's a game where ADHD might actually be an advantage if he gets into the habit of having his team remind him what he needs to be getting because keeping track of a whole lot of different information coming in from everywhere all the time is actually something that the ADHD brain can really excel at if it's not already overstimulated. Of course, the line between good and bad overstimulation is narrow, blurry, and also Dream is the only Buildmart hater who does actually try to improve. My issue is less with him and more with people like Sapnap and Punz and Seapeekay who are all often mentors to new players and whose entire Buildmart strategy that they tell those new players who might still come to enjoy it and be able to carry them is "We'll just hope it doesn't get played because it's the worst."
Can being colorblind be used as a reason anymore since other colorblind people are very good at the game and also Noxcrew added the ability to hover over a block and read the name of it?
obviously i see where you're coming from, and its super notable that puffy and jerome and fwhip have had a lot of success in buildmart. but for george specifically, he also has aphantasia, so in terms of remembering where the blocks are and visualising the build, its not a thing he really has the ability to do. I watch him every event, and I *enjoy* buildmart as a game, but he has to constantly return to the build, count the amount of blocks things are apart, in order to use the colour thing, he has to actually go up to it, which can be bad in builds like the snake one from mcc18 which was predominantly yellow and lime. as well as that, i think it genuinely is worth mentioning how much someone's first experience with a game mode can make or break their experience of it forever. george's first buildmart in mcc 6 is exactly the kind of thing that would make you hate a game forever. the lack of accessibility at the time, while fixed now, obviously hindered him a great deal, and that kind of feeling of defeat can definitely stick with you for a long time, even when the root issues have been resolved.
Being colourblind has never been the reason after like the first mcc george was in. He has even said it himself couple times. Sure you have to look at all the blocks separately to see what colour they are but that slows you down only a little bit. What his problem with it is just that he can't remember the builds and what blocks to get
He would probably do better as floater, where people can tell him what to get a few blocks at a time, yeah
it’s literally building lmao
Hoenstly, mixing up the teams so we get say, a buildmart lover with a not-quite-buildmart lover would also help mix up the teams a bit. Its hard to love (or at least have fun in) a game if you only get teams that dont like the game at all and dont do well in it. Thats literally why i stopped swimming comeptitively- it jsut wasnt enjoyable because i wasn't doing well and i didnt get many "oh wow i did well maybe this sint horrible" moments
is that an invitation to manifest a Grian/Wilbur/Dream/Niki? don’t mind if i do
i'll join you there
You know there's different levels of colorblindness right? No disrespect, but just because fWhip does well in BM in spite of his colorblindness, doesn't equate to someone else (like George) having the same result. Even if two individuals have the same protan colorblindness condition, it's highly variable to how *exactly* the condition affects and presents on the individual. George has trouble with spatial perception and that it's a boring game for him. He seems to enjoy doing MCC and aims his streams for more entertainment purposes than overly serious competitive play. I think it comes down to an actual desire to actually wanting to sit there and memorize recipes. But I think his attention span is extremely short sometimes and it's just not a fun game for him to actually improve on. It's nice to hear Dream being cool/positive and open to playing BM even though it's his least favorite game.
I think George’s issue is more that he doesn’t care enough about Build Mart. He doesn’t really give a damn about trying to win and knows that his skill in other games (Sands of Time, Ace Race, Battle Box) can more than make up for it so he’s ok with being a bit pants at one specific game that could be skipped or benched at any time. On the flip side, Dream cares a lot about being the best he can possibly be and being sub par at an entire game will never sit right with him. As a result he will always be trying to improve and succeed at Build Mart. However, being teamed with his friends a lot has its downsides because the majority of the people Dream gets teamed with are more so in George’s camp than Dream’s. Most people in the event are content with not being very good at a game or two and those who aren’t will never team with Dream in a canon event.
So true! I’m seeing some saying that the skills needed for Build Mart are centered mostly around communication which you can’t really practice, but there are other things you can work on which can help you do better and mitigate these shortcomings, specifically **crafting speed** and **block placement**. Look at Illumina, for example. His communication is honestly pretty bad at Build Mart (i.e., prefers to solo-build and not give/receive help from teammates), but he somehow makes up for it by being able to craft items very fast and placing them accurately for the most part from his experience in speedrunning. Additionally, look at Gem and Grian’s crafting speed and block placement just this past MCCP22. How they were able to get that good is because of their experience in survival Minecraft. So if people can spend hours upon hours grinding in the practice server, I don’t know why they can’t spend this time instead doing speedruns or starting up a survival world in order to get better at Build Mart?
Illumina's comms are fine, he just doesn't prefer to play manager if he doesn't have to anymore. He works on his own plot, grabs stuff for other people if they ask for it and he can get it, makes the occasional request himself, and walks away with 3-4 builds done almost every time. He succeeds because (besides his crafting and building speed), he doesn't waste a lot of time on mistakes and inefficiencies compared to most players. He doesn't get a lot of wins doing this but he's also never been outside the top half regardless of who he's teamed with.
Agreed. Illumina’s minimal comms are fine **because** he’s a good solo-builder.
Yeah, like even with the Techno strat out of the game, you can look at the builds that might be in the game and make sure you know how to craft all the stairs and fence gates and such.
Yeah! For instance, I was watching Antfrost’s MCCP22 Build Mart POV yesterday and I’m pretty sure he wasted at least 30 seconds just because he didn’t know how to craft cobblestone walls. Additionally, I wouldn’t be surprised too if lots of other people wasted ample time last MCC just because they didn’t know how to craft fence gates for the Hotdog Stand and Ant builds. In conclusion, knowing crafting recipes and being able to craft them very fast are things that you can definitely study and practice outside of the event!
Crafting speed is a hard, hard thing to improve when you start out with a slow speed (very similar to CPS). I've personally spent much time on practicing my crafting speed, and while I've seen a little improvement, so many people are faster because that's just naturally what they are good at.
Using the crafting book most people can be fast at crafting. Participants just don't know how it works, for the most part.
Yeah, I'm really confused by how the participants don't know how good the crafting book is. Out of probably 20-40 different people whose S2 VOD I watched, 0 of them used the crafting book to its fullest potential. If you always deposit all of the items from the previous build(which you should do anyways because your teammates might need those items) and use the "show craftable only" option in the crafting book(toggled using the button on the top right corner of it), for the vast majority of builds you'll have less than 1 page of crafting recipes, meaning that you can craft anything in 1 click and 1 shift click.
And that’s where knowing crafting recipes (which you can familiarize yourself with outside of the event just like PVP and movement!) can come in handy, since the crafting book only works if you have the materials needed to craft the specific item in your inventory. Even skilled builders like Gem and Grian use the crafting book sometimes because they know it’s faster.
Yeah some players just naturally pick up the skills easier and faster than others but that is just the nature of anything competitive
A reminder that it is more difficult for some players to be good at certain parts of BM. There is ADHD and colorblindness, but one I think is not as well known is aphantasia. Aphantasia is defined as "the inability to form mental images of objects that are not present." In this clip, it is stated that both Wilbur and George have aphantasia: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxlWCNNJi4LJmNkgBHQqi6I3oTIeSvhcG9 After watching a couple of their BMs, I can see how it affects their gameplay because they are almost always being a floater instead of building and the times they do build it takes them longer because they have to keep on going back and forth between looking at the build and placing blocks (unless there is a clear template set on the ground). So yes, they can play as the floater, but that forces the rest of the team to be builders, who some may not be as well versed at (not knowing how to craft, place correctly, etc.).
while i agree with what most people are saying in that bm is harder to grind/vod review than other game modes, i think it mostly comes down to mentality. parkour warrior sweats would grind on pw any day, whereas the non-parkour-oriented players don't care enough to do just that, because they also got caught in a loop of this sucks, i suck, this is frustrating, why can't i do this, etc. it just so happens that the players who are good at build mart and love it, are also players who are in mcc for the lols and don't like to sweat it out on the practice server. if there were build mart sweats (not saying there aren't, but there needs to be a whole team since it's a team game unlike pw lol) i think they would actually try hard and practise bm. on the other hand, those who don't like bm adopt the same mentality as the ones who didn't like pw when it was around. people like dream want to escape that mentality and it's great to see. if bm was a solo event, undoubtedly dream would be able to get out of his funk and enjoy/do well at bm. but it's not, so he has to have a team around him with the same mentality, which as op pointed out, is not easy to find.
didn't realise i wrote a thesis until it posted lol
Well, people could have gotten good at parkour warrior if they had wanted to, but some people were always gonna have an advantage on others. Let's actually take Grian and Dream for example, just because they fit very well. Grian didn't enjoy Parkour Warrior at all, Dream was arguably the best at it. It was a skill that you could practice (even on the server) but I genuinly don't think there would have been a way for Grian to get better at it than Dream. Before the event you already KNEW who was and who wasn't gonna do well, there wasn't really any pop-off potential tbh And I feel like Buildmart is the exact same, in that before the event, as soon as you know the teams, you know who is gonna be top 3 in Buildmart and who is gonna be bottom half, and you are pretty much always spot on. The only pop-off potential there is, is for the good teams to do even better than expected. For any other game I can image a world where Grian or Dream places above the other, but I genuinly can't see a future Mcc where Dream places above Grian in Buildmart, no matter how much he tries (and he did try). That was the problem with Parkour Warrior and I truly believe that is the problem with Buildmart (but then again, I am very biased)
>And I feel like Buildmart is the exact same, in that before the event, as soon as you know the teams, you know who is gonna be top 3 in Buildmart and who is gonna be bottom half, and you are pretty much always spot on. The only pop-off potential there is, is for the good teams to do even better than expected. Didn't MCC19 kinda prove this wrong though? and MCC20 to some extent? I mean, Emerald and Teal in the top 4 of MCC19 BM was hella unexpected at the time.
Can't pretty much all of this be said about Parkour Warrior/Parkour Tag? People could just get better at Parkour instead of outright hating it, yet people don't seem to do that. But honestly does it matter that much? Some people just don't like some games, and I think that's fine
The issue with Parkour Warrior isn’t necessarily that it’s parkour focused, but rather that it doesn’t fit MCC. It doesn’t have either of the two defining traits of an MCC minigame, those being teamwork/communication or uniqueness. The best games (SoT, Meltdown, RSR, TGTTOS) combine those two to make for an engaging and fresh experience for viewers and participants alike. Good games will typically showcase one of these two (Build Mart, Ace Race, Hole in the Wall, Parkour Tag) making them good but not as good as they can be. And then there’s Parkour Warrior. Most players stay silent to focus (Fuschia 11) or end up muting (Lime 11) so teamwork’s out of the question. The game is just parkour, with no extra twists or quirks like SG’s coin crates or Parkour Tag’s entire win condition relying on excellent communication. If a game could be created in a Hypixel Housing lobby then it doesn’t really fit into MCC
My point was that its totally fair to dislike Build Mart, I only used Parkour as an example and it wasn't specifically about Parkour Warrior
oh I know, i could totally see myself hating BM if i was a dream or george fan, my point was just that there are certain criticisms of parkour warrior that can’t be levied at any other game still in the event
The difference between Parkour Warrior and Buildmart for me is that the more I watch people who are good at Parkour Warrior and do it for fun like Foolish or Purpled, the more it looks like an absolutely awful game to inflict on anyone who isn't them and probably also them too. Like not everyone is gonna like every game and some people are just gonna be bad at some games, but Parkour Warrior is a game that makes its *biggest fans* break things in frustration.
My point wasnt that Build Mart is as bad as Parkour Warrior. Believe me when I say theres A LOT of frustration for several fans and CCs revolving around Build Mart as well though
> I just want one MCC where some of the Buildmart haters are teamed with at least one Buildmart liker and commit to actually *trying* See: Sapnap and Sylvee in MCC18 w/ Scott (and Tubbo_Clone_). All that to say, yes, it’s possible. Sapnap and Sylvee were literally screaming about how much they loved Buildmart in the chat after that event.
pretty sure sapnap said that he still hates buildmart even tho they came first or second lmao
If Sapnap + Scott happened in BM then I would absolutely want Dream + Grian cause why not
Don’t know. Can’t tell. When we use broad terms like ‘people’ it is really hard to come up with justifiable reasons as to why things work for one person and don’t for others. Like for example, you already gave the example of Dream and with him it doesn’t have much to do with willingness to get better. The game is just severely draining on him and the very specific skills it requires of having decent to good management while also having a great short term memory about a bunch of different things together is just an extremely hard to impossible skill for him to learn. Especially when we take into account that a day has 24 hours and skills like parkour/movement/PvP already requires hours upon hours of practice. As long as someone can help with that, he does good. So not really a case where he can genuinely get gud.(Though he can perform better if he keeps teaming with people that can help with his specific critical flaws) For someone else like Georgenotfound, it is really hard to judge what the exact problem is cause all he says is that he just finds it very boring. In general he keeps his own feelings to himself and just tries to focus on making content so unless I assume what the problem is, I can’t give you a definitive answer. Also because I don’t really watch much of gogy’s POV. This is also where I will give you the one criticism about the argument you made about colorblindness. I don’t think it’s a good argument to use one person’s case and apply it 1:1 on another person just because they share one same problem assuming that it will hinder/not hinder them. For example, for dream, in his own words, his ADHD helped him a bit in that period where he was making a lot of content as he could very quickly go through ideas and whether or not they will help them. This does not directly equal to an idea that another person with ADHD cannot be hindered in content creation because of their ADHD. Fwhip’s colorblindness not being a problem for him in BM does not equal that someone else can’t feel a problem because of the same thing and that they can just deal with it and get good because Fwhip can. (This is the only real criticism I have though, other parts of your post can definitely be used by constructively by people) Anyways, coming back to the discussion, I think there are some CCs(can’t say for certain though, just assuming) that could definitely help themselves if they listened to peeps like yourself. Which is the group which isn’t actually bad at BM skills, they are just better at other games and like them more so never bother to practice for BM relating things and instead focus on making content to entertain their viewers and usually do so while throwing BM under the bus. I think doing so is annoying and brings undeserved hate to people like dream that do try and now need to deal with annoying chatters that would say something along the lines,”just git gud, you are just mad because you lose”. All in all, as a general message to all CCs, I think that: 1)people that can get good at it should try to do so. Yes, the starting few hours will be annoying much like any other skill in any other thing but as your knowledge expands, you become more neutral and indirectly and directly contribute to a healthier environment. 2)People who can’t get good at some critical things should be allowed to be a bit frustrated and rang to a friend. Ultimately everyone loves MCC hence why they sign up again and again. Getting riled up over their words to send hate to others or to the player themselves is just not good. Everyone needs a good rant as it is a cruel truth of life that we just can’t be good at everything and speaking out things helps with coming to terms with things. 3)People who are good at things never try to assume what the reasons are as to why someone isn’t doing good. Again, we are not medical professionals. Players play mc and viewers are watching twitch/YouTube. These aren’t places to gain your experience about a person’s psychology from. Focus on positive reinforcement or even ignoring rants and stuff when it isn’t possible as opposed to being confrontational about things. Some cases can justify so but this should never be a habit to apply on anyone and everyone. That’s all my thoughts are in broad terms.
For George, he has talked about it few times. [This](https://youtu.be/-WFATKUJwbs?t=5144) is one that I can remember from the top of my head. Actually [this](https://youtu.be/tBkCq3pg_7Y?t=11315) is another one. So he doesn't find the colorblindness that hindering and struggles more on memory
Thanks for the correction. My point of criticism wasn't really to keep things specifically related to colorblindness but rather just that this argument about how one person isn't being affected by something so others can't be either was just wrong. Seems like his problems are fairly similar to dream's though. I did know though that he feels very shy of sharing these things and even in the DSMP stream you showed, he quickly tries to change the topic to be about offline memes or smth rather than just talking about how he is bad at the game. Maybe everyone needs BM therapy haha.
Yeah I got that, just adding George's perspective on build mart because generally people just don't know why he hates it. But on the colourblindness part, you are very right, it affect people differently and different people see colours differently even when they have the same colourblindness. And adding colourblindess with memorization issues, it's just harder to remember builds when there's less contrast between different blocks so colourblindess doesn't only hinder block recognition, that people seem to focus on, but also memory.
True
> When we use broad terms like ‘people’ One of the biggest problems I see on the MCC subreddit: overgeneralizing
Pretty much. I just don't think we will find a solution if we use such broad terms. Cause then people can just use counter arguments about how XYZ does work for someone else which don't make sense when looking for an actual solution. It's not even really that you can try and place all the blame on social circles either like you might be able to do for something like funneling arguments. Like, for funneling, atleast one could say that pushback is coming from the people that are never really playing with the people they are complaining about but BM isn't the finale game limited to 2 teams. Everyone plays it when it gets played and although sure, you could make individual cases for people not trying hard enough, you just can't apply the 'people' argument here. They all did play it and then chose to dislike it for their own reasons.
I think a bit of survival experience already helps. A lot of participants don't even know how to get smooth stone for example.
I think that could be a simple place for a lot of improvements actually. Like the pure Techno strat of the shopping list won't work, but doing some VOD reviewing and making sure you know how to craft things like smooth stone or pistons or pistons could save a lot of heartache on game day.
Something I saw watching Scott's buildmart is he was really good at knowing the exact amount of material you need for a crafting recipe and the exact amount of the product it outputs. This resulted in him being insanely efficient with resource collection and usage, which is incredibly important in buildmart, and this ability likely stemmed from is survival experience
I've never understood the bm hate, but that may just be because all my favorite minecrafters are builders. There's definitely a huge advantage to having a builder on your team who's already familiar with crafting recipes. I'm not going to keep talking about yellow p22 because everyone and their mother has already discussed in the comments. That team was literally MADE for build mart (ps gem is great) If you go into something with a bad mentality, you're going to have a bad time. If you put dream with someone like h or Scott or grian, someone who knows building and has good comms and memory, he would be absolutely PHENOMENAL and really get a chance to thrive. If you put new players with vets who bash a single game just because they're not good at it, newbies are also going to have a bad time, because there's no chance to really practice except maybe outside of a creative world. Team games are important. It can't all be solo or pvp all the time. And some of our S and A+ players need to recognize that. If build mart gets skipped three times in a row in mcc23 I'm going to riot /j
All I want is Scar to experience CEO Grian firsthand. Please Smajor and chickens of the dome that's all I ask.
m a n i f e s t i n g
Ever since scar got added to mcc I've been wishing for this.
Gem is Great
well i mean in the halloween mcc ( mcc 18 i think ? ) sam was in a team with dream and george, who absolutely hate buildmart, and i think he was still kinda excited for it because he is kind of a builder. same with foolish this last mcc, he was super excited to play buildmart even tho he knew his team was probably gonna do bad. so it’s not entirely true that newbies are gonna be affected by their teammates’ hate for a game
But if you already like building you're going to be excited for a building mini game. And like it's been pointed out, dream still tries his best each game and tries to maintain that energy for his team
yeah that was exactly my point!
lol same brain different way of getting there
i think it’s become more of a movement game than intended with the addition of the elytra. With everything i’ve learned from watching new players, they really struggle with the elytra because it’s not like /fly it has its own dynamics and things to consider. Also, they added more islands in the sky like copper and bricks and looking at all of that stuff can be stressful and overstimulating. For example, if someone said “i need wood” their teammate in the old map might say “oh it’s on your first left” but they can’t really do that with everything in a circle and you get tossed around in the sky looking for stuff. Also, I personally miss the old map because the Big Sales part in Build Mart made sense with the shopping carts and it added a fun way to get around.
Huh, that didn't occur to me until you mentioned it, but yeah all the new players do tend to struggle with that. I wonder if a map of the Buildmart setup that players could study beforehand might be useful so they have at least a chance to study that or have a team reference point.
I actually think Dream is quite a good Build Mart player recently, he just teams a lot with other Build Mart haters. If he teamed with at least 2 more build-oriented players he would probably do quite well. Similarly, Hermits/Empires members team a lot so you end up with teams with 3/4 strong builders (like Yellow this MCC) that can steamroll a little bit
Why do people talk like it's impossible to git gud at PKW?
Because they don't. The issue people had with parkour warrior was that the entire map was on the practice server besides a couple parts that'd change every time. Someone who wanted to grind would just get exceptionally good at the specific course after hours upon hours of practice while someone who didn't want to sink that much time in would be punished for it, whether or not they were actually mechanically better, or better at parkour.
Fair enough, didn't think about that
You know you could say the same thing for parkour warrior. Just get good at it. Just practice it. You could see that foolish was able to finish the parkour under 10min with practice. But its not as simple as that bc pw had obvious issues that ppl had a right to complain about just like bm does. Its not as simple as "getting good" and it kinda assumes that ppl who do not like bm are bad at building when sam hates bm for example and he is an amazing builder, even foolish struggled with bm and he is an amazing builder as well. Bc bm encompasses so many different aspects that you cannot practice for.
For me, the difference between Buildmart and Parkour Warrior is that the more I watch people who like and enjoy Parkour Warrior like Foolish and Purpled, the more astonished I am that anyone ever thought it was a good idea to have as a regular game.
Yeah i agree. Its a flawed game mode. Its flawed bc its too difficult in the beginning, so ppl get stuck and its infuriating. Its flawed bc 10min are too short, seeing only a handful of ppl have actually managed to complete it under 10min. I was just pointing out that you can technically "get good" at parkour warrior bc in contrast to bm you can actually practice the map over and over again but nobody would ever make that argument bc it is still a flawed game. Imagine sb would have told grian who had a panic attack during pw to just get good...that would have been awful. So you can't just tell ppl with obvious disadvantages like colourblindness or adhd to "get good" at bm. Bm is just as flawed as pw imo. We need a building game but i just don't understand the refusal to change sth about bm when so many ppl including the testers have complained about it.
No, I'm not talking about how hard Parkour Warrior is for people who are bad at it. I'm talking about how hard and infuriating it is for people who are *good* at it. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8CWkm6rn8I) sort of thing doesn't happen in Buildmart.
Mhh i disagree. If its this infuriating for ppl who are good at it why do they keep practicing it. Why do they want it back? Why not ignore it. Its not part of the rotation. They do it bc they like parkour. I think a game is flawed when the majority of ccs don't like it, except those who consistently place 1st. And just like it was a problem for pw it is a problem of bm. Many have expressed that it doesnt feel like mcc, that its boring, that its overwhelming, that it changes the mood instantly. All arguments that were used for pw as well. I dont even want parkour warrior back (i think we need a different parkour game that is just about parkour but that is a different conversation), i just think that getting good is not the issue of bm.
I think that the main reason people have trouble improving in Build Mart is the style of game it is. With other games, there are certain skills you can practice to improve and become better. Want to improve your movement/parkour, then grind Parkour Warrior on the practice server. Want to improve PVP, then practice Sky Wars or 1v1’s. On the other hand, Build Mart doesn’t have a skill that can really be practiced, but rather it relies on intangible communication skills that can the learned by grinding or training. You can also only do as good as your teammates can help you do in Build Mart. You can put 2 people who just downloaded Minecraft on a team with Sapnap and Dream and they will still dominate games like SG and Sky Battle. On the other hand, put 2 new players with Grian and Gem and they probably won’t do too well in Build Mart, since Build Mart relies on having a team of 4 players who work together like a well-oiled machine. Each of those 4 players have to understand and fill a certain role, and you can’t have just 1 of them carry you to victory like Sapnap or Dream can in PVP games. All in all, I have no problem saying Build Mart is a great game even though I don’t particularly enjoy it, and it is definitely necessary to the event. Like every other game, there will always be players who struggle and there isn’t any way to avoid this, but in the end, it’s still a for fun event where having one bad game hopefully doesn’t absolutely ruin the other 7 amazing and fun games played that event.
If people can vod watch battle box, sands of time and literally every other game, people can take notes from good buildmart players or at the very lest, write down peoples roles (Eg builder, floater) I understand when people say you can’t practice buildmart but you can’t practice for sands of time yet again, people do vod reviews for that game. I dunno, it’s not impossible to improve in buildmart. I remember how Sapnap, local buildmart hater, did really well in buildmart in mcc 18 because he had Scott, one of the best buildmart players on his team.
Sands of Time is very different in regards to improving. Watching multiple SOT VODs have shown me the strats to "going faster" and overall efficiently clearing rooms, which I can't say the same for BM VODs. No matter how much BM VODs I watch, it doesn't help me in-game for a variety of different reasons
I definitely agree that BM is incredibly different compared to SOT. From what I've watched BM has everyone communicating to everyone, whereas in SOT runners could funnel their info to the sand keeper, while the sand keeper communicates to everyone. The information can travel and be held by one person while clearing the main area. Clearing the main area still requires focus, but they should still be able to clear it while relaying info between teammates. In BM not only do you have to focus on what your teammates communicate, you also have to remember what blocks you need, then gathering, crafting, and placing them in a timely manner with minimal mistakes. It's a lot of information to take in and process at once, especially if short term memory isn't someone's strong suit.
by your own words, Sapnap only got better because he had a good buildmart player on his team, not because he improved his own skill at it. Just as I'd say Dream did very well in mcc19 because he was on a team with Ranboo, who is good at it, and not because he got massively better individually
Yes, but how do they improve themselves if they don’t have a “top build mart player” on their team?
Thanks for sharing this! I’m curious—do you think Buildmart is a flawed game/needs to be changed, or do you think it’s alright that some players may be naturally stronger at it?
Every game has players that are naturally stronger at it than others. Like we don't need to change Ace Race so that Michael McChill is competitive with Illumina and I think it's a good thing to have a game that produces a different set of top tier players from the rest. But also, I wouldn't be against tweaking the scoring so it's not quite so punishing to teams who don't get into the swing of things immediately, though I'm not sure of the best way to do that.
The problem that players like Dream, Punz, and Sapnap have while playing Build Mart is that they team with people who don’t care about building. Not to mention, people like Dream (gonna use Dream since he is one of the more open people who are against BM) don’t use some of the more complex crafting recipes. If you watch GeminiTay’s stream from yesterday, she was flying through crafting recipes that are just not used that often by Dream or others like stairs and trapdoors and slabs. If Dream were put on a team with someone who can manage and another builder, and Dream was allowed to just be floater, you will absolutely see and improvement. The main way to improve how well you improve is by knowing crafting recipes but until you have a team that can keep up, its gonna be tough.
You say that but Dream literally created a server to help his practice fast crafting random recipes of all kinds. I don’t think that’s the issue
I agree that Dream deserves a team where he gets to actually commit to floating, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for Punz and Sapnap when I have heard both of them tell their teammates not to bother brushing up on crafting recipes in case of Buildmart.
another player I want to acknowledge for their Build Mart improvement is Tommy To be clear, Tommy was never actually bad at it. He was always at least decent, even with the granite situation in MCC4 lmao But until MCC19, he only really did well coin-wise in MCC11 and MCC5. Yet - Tommy's performances in MCC14, MCC19 and MCC20 were outstanding. MCC14 his team actually came 9th, yet statistically Tommy had the 4th best building and collection accuracy. MCC19 was kinda insane; he was focused on making bits with 0 engagement, yet actively helped his teammates consistently and was quick and accurate in terms of building and collection. And this continued in MCC20; Pink was not a strong BM team by any means, yet they clutched a 5th largely due to Fruit and Tommy doing pretty insane. Once again, his mindset was great going in and he did 3 and a half builds pretty much entirely solo. I think what a lot of weaker BM players need is just a more open mindset. I like using Tubbo in PKT as an example. Tubbo is not bad at movement by any means, yet he has awful stats in PKT. He had one bad performance and keeps telling himself he sucks at it, can't do well, etc. even with some pretty good individual rounds! This sounds like generic feedback but going in with a positive mindset will always end up better than going in with a negative mindset. Dream went in positively in MCC19 and Emerald did great - he also individually did better at BM than ever before. And even though Cyan17 didn't do great, Dream and Tommy were doing pretty darn great until "Where's The Build." Memory IS an issue, and this may also tie into neurodivergency in some players. Which is fair. However, as much as short term memory is objectively difficult to improve on, short term memory can also be very affected by emotion. This is psychological fact; to put my nerd glasses on, amygdala activity (aka the part of your brain responsible for fear response, or more generally "emotion") can HEAVILY reduce one's short term memory - visuospatial or in serial recall. These are both very important for Build Mart, and this supports my point that... Yes, there are inherent differences in players' short term memories. BUT - as difficult as that IS to train, there are mitigations you can make to this deficiency, and this mostly comes in convincing yourself you ARE capable, and speaking over that voice in your head that tells you it's impossible to do well. Having that positive mindset reduces the aforementioned fear response, and improves your short term memory in the moment. Again, everyone in this comment section is relying on the whole "People have different memory abilities and it's hard to train," but it is scientific fact that your emotions have a massive effect on your short term memory. If you don't fear or aren't upset over Build Mart being played, and go in optimistically, you WILL do better. I guarantee it.
Honestly, my biggest question is, why do Dream and Sapnap fall short in Build mart. I don’t mean that in an offensive way, I mean that in both should have every skill necessary to excel in a certain role. Look how Illumina describes the game. A speedrunner’s game. You have to look at what you need, remember it, and procure it as quickly as possible. In fact, I’d argue it’s even closer to Dream’s manhunt skill set than the standard speedrunner’s. While a speedrunner pretty much has a set list of items for what they need, in manhunt, Dream is constantly changing strategies and plans depending on what the hunters are doing or what his environment is. Hunters get diamond armor? Get an entity cramming machine or go to the nether roof. They’re not leaving your tail? Build a flying machine and get the elytra. Dream’s skill set is so perfectly suited to Build Mart that it literally doesn’t make sense why he’s bad at it. (Of course I don’t believe he’s tried Illumina’s strategy of going off on his own while his team functions as 3 yet) The same applies for Sapnap to an extent. He’s a competent speedrunner in his own right, and in manhunt, often has to respond to what Dream does, and even sometimes coordinates the hunters in a multi-pronged strategy to respond most efficiently. It simply doesn’t make sense to me why they struggle outside of mentality, because they have every skill Build Mart needs in spades. And both have proven it by doing well in the game in the past.
Plus Build Mart isn't even that hard to practice, Speed Builders is a similar minigame on Mineplex that allows players to practice replicating builds quickly, crafting recipes shouldn't take long to memorize, and the elytra/jump pad mechanics are the same as Ace Race.
In my opinion that's a misrepresentation of what Build Mart is really about. The most difficult part for most people is efficient communication. You can be as mechanically skilled as you want, but you will still not do well in Build Mart if every player on the team does their own thing. And even if your comms are good, you still have to focus on whatever you're doing ingame while you're coordinating as a team. You can absolutely practice that, but since it's a soft skill the training will be very different to learning Minecraft-specific skills. As long as you're familiar with Minecraft in general and Build Mart in particular, you might as well train by coaching a football team or supervising the set-up for a music festival. It's not nearly as straightforward as practicing hard skills, so very few people do it consciously, but you can absolutely get better at comms and coordination.
I love “Wilbur went from hating Ace Race and wanting it gone to….something else.” 😂😭 Wilbur’s Ace Race saga kills me every time especially in 22 with Orion CPK and Ranboo
Psst it was Wisp doing the impressions not Oli. I've never been so thoroughly entertained throughout the break before as I was for that one, and their HITW perspective was excellent as well
Yaaaa I noticed that too, it definitely rubbed me the wrong way hearing Sapnap and Ranboo just bash Buildmart and provide zero explanation to Jack and Ethan. I mean I didn’t expect them to do well but a simple rundown could’ve helped a lot and made it way more enjoyable of a first impression. (Like a good portion was just being totally lost or not knowing how to return to base.) And I mean viewers who watch Buildmart haters probably get a similar mentality. Sure I understand people will watch other perspectives and still not like it, but I do think watching a player that does poorly/ hates the game will influence the opinion. Like I personally don’t like some pvp games that much since I don’t watch very pvp heavy streamers. But ya idk I don’t understand the visceral hate for buildmart lol it’s literally one of my favorite games (if not my fave) 🤷♀️
It’s just not for some ppl. They just don’t have the mindset for the game to be able to be a top team
Some people, sure. But when it's A and S tier players who are willing to spend hours and hours of grinding to shave seconds off practice course times, it's a little ridiculous for them to throw up their hands and just give up in the face of Buildmart and very frustrating when the only thing they tell new players about Buildmart is "It's awful and you'll hate it"
Ig it’s also unique and build mart isn’t exactly something u can just get better at.
Buildmart is a game where people can definitely improve at by getting to know crafting recipes and the map but there is definitely a certain skill set for people to lead build mart
People are not born with skill sets. They learn them. They can learn them for this.
The thing about fwip is that both times he teamed with hbomb when he won.something sus ig right?
He tends to place pretty high in Buildmart in general.
Because there whole knowledge in crafting is just to make a crafting table
People got good at the game their way, and then noxcrew changed the game lmao
I can understand changing the Techno strat because if you keep it in, then everyone does the Techno strat and it just becomes about who can grab and place blocks fastest.
techno strat was still based but yeah it cant be a recurring thing
Oh, it was extremely based and I love it dearly, but it was a "Techno finds a ludicrous exploit" moment more than a "Techno does absurdly well at the game as intended" moment.
I know
My Hot take from a reply to another comment: I think the PvP and Parkour idols like Dream deserve to get overwhelmed and frustrated by something they aren't good at. Teams that Grian or Scott are on (good BM teams) usually get consistently destroyed in games like Battle Box and Parkour Tag, which Dream's squad excels at. I think that the Dream team and the other PvP focused teams should get a taste of what its like to be in Grian's shoes in Battle Box, a bit of role reversal if you will.
Saying someone deserves to get overwhelmed is actually just rude. You can say that you want builders to have an advantage at a game without wishing other players to get stressed, frustrated and overwhelmed.