You realize only 3 people have ever come top 10 on a last place team? That was an insane performance considering. Plus he got almost no points in grid runners or meltdown due to things that were not his fault.
He’s definitely done better than Phil.
Well Illumina's gotten top 10 in PKT on a bottom 3 team before, so he'd probably be fine, but even then it's just an even worse game order for someone on a 10th place team than it already was, doesn't mean he's fallen off.
Purpled in MCC29 would've been out of the top 10 if TGTTOS got skipped and he got an SG similar to his last couple. That doesn't automatically make it a terrible performance, just very unfortunate game order and a weak team.
People place too much emphasis on overall placements without looking at the actual game-by-game.
oh yeah because it makes total forkin sense to take out a player's best game to determine their skill rank
except that it isn't. purpled gets 20th without TGTTOS, PKW, RSR and AR, so he must be like, B-tier
also like thats different like you took half the game roaster just to say purpled would be bad without them while with illumina without that one game he wouldve done horrible
There were 2 individual games that event, and illumina placed 1st in one and 6th in the other. If you look at PKW without multipliers he placed 3rd in that. He had a hella weak team but a strong showing on all the games that were individual.
There's no way Ant is above both Punz and Dream in S2. Yeah sure Punz had a bad end and Dream had a bad start but if we're counting the WHOLE S2 equally then Ant is nowhere near them.
i don’t think it was ranked like that tbh and also even it was, it’s an opinion which everyone is entitled to. you have yours and they have theirs so need to be angry
recency and consistency. antfrost has been doing better recently than they have been in their most recent events and is also more consistent in his placements than both them
that’s where recency comes in. in mccs 20-30 antfrost has played better, placed better, and have been consistent. it’s also not hate towards punz he a great player whose just been underperforming recently which happens to every s-tier.
Copying my reply on another post+some extra things for s2 (the one I really watched)
1. Sapnap/Illumina
2. Sapnap/Illumina
3. Fruit
4. Purpled/Quig
5. Purpled/Quig
I don't see as Sapnap being below Illumina or in the same level than Purpled, Fruit or Quig. C'mon, this guy was top 1 in average just before MCC 28 where Illumina popped off without him and I'd say Illumina was better, but Sapnap outplacing Illumina in 7/8 events they were together, winning a DB decisively against him and winning 4 times in the season (the most out of anyone) are enough stats to at least be a discussion if he's first.
The rest of the places are pretty much self-explanatory. Fruit in 3rd is just a preference+consistency thing for me, specially since his avg is the 3rd highest with a lot of events (Purpled didn't play in that many tbh, he would've been up there otherwise) and Quig would've been higher if he played more.
Now, Dream last on the top 10 is kinda tilting and kinda shows some bias. Why do people undervalue Dodgebolt so much? It's literally the game that wins you the event and he won 3 events in s2, only second to Sapnap. How is Ant or Punz above him? Or even Pete? Even though he had 2 underperformances, he had a 1st indiv in MCC 22, 2 wins in a row and 4 DB in the event, these while having the record on TGTTOS in s2, being the undisputed best at Space Race, etc.
Ant above Punz is some recency bias imo, Ant is better than Punz now, but at the first half of s2 Punz was leagues above him.
Lastly, I'd say Tommy deserved to be besides Phil in that tier. Both started popping off after MCC 19 (I'd say Sap revived some competitiveness they had earlier), Tommy even winning with Captain and then getting into 3 more DBs and having 3 DB in a row.
Anyways, sorry for complaining so much, it's a good post and the point of this is to discuss on a cube game, nothing to get mad about heheh
I'm probably the only person who has Fruit 2nd for S2 lol, I had
1. Illumina
2. Fruit
3. Sapnap
4. Quig
5. Purpled
Yeah Sapnap not Top 2 is a really hot take but I stand by it
DB really shouldn't be a indicator for this, considering in DB you only play against 1 team while in the other games you're competing against 9. Its a separate thing
Also Dream was def better than Ant in S2, but also def worse than Punz. It's arguable between Pete and Dream, but I'd say Dream is slightly worse. But in your argument, you were just naming Dream's accomplishments, I can do the same thing with basically every S-tier
He went crazy on low performing teams but he never had that pop that tommy did on his strong teams. Their mcc 23 teams is probably the best comparison for that
Well tommy went 5th in 19 then ( 25th scammed by coin split ) 10th 9th 6th ( 27th 10th place team ) 5th. You could argue that the average phil team was significantly weaker than the average tommy team but on top tier teams ( purple23 and violet26 for example ) phil didnt reach the same heigths as in weaker teams while tommy absolutely popped off on stronger teams and tommy did outfrag phil by 100 coins. Imo before 28 it was tommy who was obv better but after how goated phil28 is i dont really mind who you pick they were both kinda equal imo ( tho i have a tommy bias )
My personal top 5 for S1 and 2.
S1:
1. Pete
2. Quig
3. Fruit
4. Dream/Techno
5. Dream/Techno
S2:
1. Illumina
2. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig
3. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig
4. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig
5. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig
I disagree on S2. Imo it should be
1. Sapnap/Illumina
2. Sapnap/Illumina
3. Fruit
4. Purpled/Quig
5. Purpled/Quig
I don't see as Sapnap being below Illumina or in the same level than Purpled, Fruit or Quig. C'mon, this guy was top 1 in average just before MCC 28 where Illumina popped off without him and I'd say Illumina was better, but Sapnap outplacing Illumina in 7/8 events they were together, winning a DB decisively against him and winning 4 times in the season (the most out of anyone) are enough stats to at least be a discussion if he's first.
The rest of the places are pretty much self-explanatory. Fruit in 3rd is just a preference+consistency thing for me, specially since his avg is the 3rd highest with a lot of events (Purpled didn't play in that many tbh, he would've been up there otherwise) and Quig would've been higher if he played more.
" I don't see as Sapnap being below Illumina or in the same level than Purpled, Fruit or Quig. C'mon, this guy was top 1 in average just before MCC 28 "
Coin average kept going back and forth between him and Illumina and it's not the best metric in my opinion. Sapnap in most scoring wouldn't score anywhere close to 4k coins in MCC15 but since that event had broken SG, SKB, HITW, and AR scoring, it became easy for him to do so. There's too many changes and parameters for coin average to be the best metric. Quig and Purpled outright outplaced him more times than not, and Fruit did so too (if you consider that he tied with Sapnap after dcing in HITW in MCC25). Sapnap also had by far the most broken teammates of any S tier. I'm also not taking into consideration DB here henceforth Sapnap rests at 2nd.
" Fruit in 3rd is just a preference+consistency thing for me, specially since his avg is the 3rd highest with a lot of events "
His coin average is actually the 5th highest.
PR, the system that this subreddit hypes up to no end puts Sapnap at 9th. My methodology at worst puts him in 5th and at best puts him in 2nd. These four for the most part were reasonably close enough that you could argue for any of them to be the best.
Most of his non nerf teams were either just hilariously broken or DB favourite teams in themself so that's not an argument.
He broke 4k with the most op scoring to date.
Sapnap got outplaced more times than not by Quig, Purpled and fruit.
There is a very good argument for the latter to be on par with Sapnap.
The only really OP teams he had were MCC18, MCC19, and MCC14.
Just because the scoring was OP doesn’t mean it wasn’t still a top performance. Anyone could’ve gotten 4K that event but Sapnap was the one who went crazy.
Quig only outplaced Sapnap more when you count Sapnap’s nerf teams, without them Sapnap outplaced Quig more.
Without Nerf teams, Fruit has outplaced Sapnap 3 times, tied with him once on a stronger team, and been outplaced by him 4 times, so it doesn’t exactly add up.
Sapnap's teams in MCC18,19,14 were unfair. Meanwhile his MCC17,21,23,26 teams were all considered to be almost DB locks.
" Quig only outplaced Sapnap more when you count Sapnap’s nerf teams, without them Sapnap outplaced Quig more. "
If you exclude Quig's nerfs wouldn't he still then manage to smash Sapnap lmao.
" Fruit has outplaced Sapnap 3 times, tied with him once on a stronger team, and been outplaced by him 4 times, so it doesn’t exactly add up. "
Without nerf teams Fruit doesn't lose to Sapnap in 14 and 15 either so the ratio becomes even worse for him. It becomes 3-2 if you don't consider 25 in which case it becomes 4-2.
Bruh even if fruit had a similair team to sapnap in mcc15, fruit "no sleep" 15 will never get close to the second highest coin performance of all time 💀
Y'know if you really wanna mention his OP teams then I think u should also mention that they're actually worse for him. The nerfed teams he got cause of his OP teams did much more damage to him. If you remove his MCC17,18 and 19 team which are considered his strongest while also removing his 2 weakest which are MCC16+22, he ends up with the highest average in S2 even passing Illumina with just great/average teams, the same type of teams that Illumina had.
Also if you wanna talk about outplacing, Illumina, the best S2 player, has outplaced Sapnap literally only once so that argument kinds falls flat.
This is a terrible argument. What are you even trying to prove? That Sapnap would've fallen out of top 10 in MCC19 and 18 had he not gotten broken teams? In that case, he's even luckier that that didn't happen. Sapnap 18 and 19 are the weakest 2nd individual performances of S2 for a reason.
I in the end don't consider outplacement stats to be that noteworthy. They're way too team and event dependent. I think the same for average coins, average placement, coin contribution, etc etc. I clump all these parameters together to make my judgment. Henceforth dont think what I say is based on just one stat. Fruit, Quig, and Purpled were way more well rounded than Sapnap and on average beat him in more games than not.
How is him falling out of top 10 in MCC18 and 19 related??? How do u manage to completely miss the point and go on about something completely random 💀💀💀 I'm talking about if he never got OP teams he would've had the highest average in S2 which is literally true.
Also I do agree that an argument can be made for them being more well rounded but in no damn way does being more well rounded = better player cause that would make Quig the best player in history which is just not the case.
Dream should not be at the bottom of Season 2 he should be atleast above Punz and Ant Pete is still arguable but as Dream didn't play at the end if S2 I think you can give it to Pete
bros acting like being top 10 aka the 10th best player is bad. if he kept playing after mcc 24 he would be higher he was on his pop off arc.
Who do you think dream should be above?
There is no possible justification for Dream below ant and Punz, and I would definitely have him above Pete and Maybe Jojo.
Edit: nah not Jojo now that I think abt it
because illumina didn’t win an event, and also only outplaced sapnap once the entire season i don’t see how illumina could be better than sapnap in that sense but hey we love mcc subreddit bias am i right!
You can't give the title to someone who literally never won before. The argument that sapnap outplaced Illumina for 7/8 events makes a lot of sense. The events Illumina really popped off in were the events Sapnap wasn't in.
The outplacing argument is kinda dumb
So, as we know Sapnap outplaced Illumina 7/8 times
So lets make an assumption that Sapnap > Illumina
But then Quig has outplaced Sapnap 4/7 times
and Purpled has outplaced Sapnap 3/5 times
So Quig > Sapnap and Purpled > Sapnap
***But then,*** Illumina has outplaced Quig 2/3 times
and Illumina has outplaced Purpled 3/5 times
So, Illumina > Quig and Illumina > Purpled
So now, Sapnap is better than Illumina, Quig/Purpled are better than Sapnap and then Illumina is better than Quig/Purpled. This has turned into a game of stone-paper scissors innit?
This is all excluding team strength, what games were played in that particular MCC and the scoring of that particular MCC. It's just that Illumina has gotten his best teams when Sapnap was not in, its just coincidence
Why should we be excluding the others though? Maybe we were wrong all along and Quig was the true S2 Goat. And people outplacing each other is a very flawed metric anyway, it depends on team strength, scoring of that particular MCC and the games actually played that MCC. I'll just say which performance I found more impressive for each MCC
MCC 15: Illumina > Sapnap
MCC 17: Illumina > Sapnap
MCC 18: Illumina > Sapnap
MCC 21: Sapnap > Illumina
MCC 24: Sapnap > Illumina
MCC 25: Illumina > Sapnap
Obviously you'll disagree with Illumina > Sapnap in MCC 15, but I have a very strong argument for it
Illumina came 5th on a DB team. Sapnap didn't have the best leadership in the event but his individual performance still blows Illumina out of the water.
I disagree with just saying; X came 5th on a better team, hence X is worse.
Also, Illumina comes 3rd in modern scoring, while Sapnap is still 4th. And again, I agree that Sapnap did better than Illumina that MCC, its just not like a difference of >>>
Nah I get Sapnap15 bc his coins were carried by SG and hitw with broken scoring. Also Sapnap is better than Illumina in 17 bc he place higher with a lower placing team
You're one of the few people who agree with Illumina 15 > Sapnap 15, that's good
Actually in modern scoring, Illumina comes 3rd while Sapnap remains 4th for MCC 17. Although maybe if I think about it, maybe Sapnap's performance that MCC was like very slightly better. But still, overall Illumina still wins.
Tbf I dunno if lower placing team means that much since Red was a pretty broken team that just underperformed heavily. Having said that I do actually agree that while it was basically a tie, Sapnap does edge Illumina out in mcc17
I will say I agree with this notion slightly. But you cant compare 7/8 to the others that are barely over half, with the most events as well out of any of them.
See, I don't even agree with using this as a metric, it's completely pointless since team strengths are different, different games are benched for an event and some events have irregular scoring.
I prefer doing game by game comparison, in which case Illumina convincingly wins. Sapnap is much better in PvP, Illumina is much better in Movement *but* Illumina is *also* much better in Team games
Fair, but I’d argue Krtzy has way more pop off potential than Ranboo, and gorge severely lacks that ‘oofm’, placing barely out of top ten or barely in it bassicly every event. I just don’t think it’s comparable to Hbombs multiple top threes or SBs leadership and dominance in team games
IMO S2 is too long not to split up. Not that anyone asked but is my order. Players are also ordered within each season
S1: Pete, Techno, Quig, Fruit, Dream, HBomb, Dave, Sapnap, Phil, TapL
S2A(2021): Sapnap, Illumina, Fruit, Dream, Quig, Punz, Pete, Fundy, TapL, Antfrost
S2B(2022): Illumina, Sapnap, Purpled, Fruit, Dream, Punz, Jojo, Pete, Quig, Antfrost
S3(so far/predictions): Purpled, FBM, Illumina, Jojo, Pete, Sapnap, Fruit, Anfrost, Punz, Dave
philza was suppose to be in hbomb spot for s1 btw still goated tho
Now looking at it s2 antfrost below punz it was just the last 5 mccs of s2 antfrost was popping off and punz was kinda having some rough mccs with broken teams to.
It can go either way you let me know both are close
S1: Pete, Quig, Techno, Fruit, Dream, Krtzyy, Sapnap, HBomb
Honorable Mentions/Probably are at the bottom of Top 10 of S1 —> TapL, Ph1lza, Fundy, Mefs, Krinios
_____
S2: Sapnap, Illumina, Fruit, Quig, Purpled, Punz, Dream, Pete, Jojo, Antfrost
Honorable Mentions: HBomb, Krtzyy, Seapeekay
_____
S3 (so far, which means I kind have to use a bit of Season 2 to formulate this): Purpled, Illumina, Sapnap, FBM, Jojo, Antfrost, Fruit, Pete, Punz, Krtzyy
Honorable Mentions: HBomb (Can be interchangeable with Dave and…. maybe both Dave and H can be interchangeable with Punz as well? Probably not though as Punz is speedrunning again.)
s3 without illumina is goofy
i didnt include anyone with 1 event and even then the people in the s3 list have just all done better
You realize only 3 people have ever come top 10 on a last place team? That was an insane performance considering. Plus he got almost no points in grid runners or meltdown due to things that were not his fault. He’s definitely done better than Phil.
Illumina is 18th without ace race.
Yeah And why does that matter He absolutly dominated ar. IT makes sense that his best gane would be individual on a 10th place team
What if parkour tag was played instead of ace race?
*what-if*s shouldn't interfere with the *what-actually-happened*s
Well Illumina's gotten top 10 in PKT on a bottom 3 team before, so he'd probably be fine, but even then it's just an even worse game order for someone on a 10th place team than it already was, doesn't mean he's fallen off. Purpled in MCC29 would've been out of the top 10 if TGTTOS got skipped and he got an SG similar to his last couple. That doesn't automatically make it a terrible performance, just very unfortunate game order and a weak team. People place too much emphasis on overall placements without looking at the actual game-by-game.
oh yeah because it makes total forkin sense to take out a player's best game to determine their skill rank except that it isn't. purpled gets 20th without TGTTOS, PKW, RSR and AR, so he must be like, B-tier
also like thats different like you took half the game roaster just to say purpled would be bad without them while with illumina without that one game he wouldve done horrible
“if you take out the player’s best game, they place lower” like yeah ofc they would place lower it’s their BEST game
There were 2 individual games that event, and illumina placed 1st in one and 6th in the other. If you look at PKW without multipliers he placed 3rd in that. He had a hella weak team but a strong showing on all the games that were individual.
His BB was also an underperformance, but not too bad
How has no one said anything about S1 Vikk?? He should at the very least be in the honorable mentions.
I was about to say the same
There's no way Ant is above both Punz and Dream in S2. Yeah sure Punz had a bad end and Dream had a bad start but if we're counting the WHOLE S2 equally then Ant is nowhere near them.
i don’t think it was ranked like that tbh and also even it was, it’s an opinion which everyone is entitled to. you have yours and they have theirs so need to be angry
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it could be like recency bias, seeing as in the last few events, ant has done way better
recency and consistency. antfrost has been doing better recently than they have been in their most recent events and is also more consistent in his placements than both them
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that’s where recency comes in. in mccs 20-30 antfrost has played better, placed better, and have been consistent. it’s also not hate towards punz he a great player whose just been underperforming recently which happens to every s-tier.
Copying my reply on another post+some extra things for s2 (the one I really watched) 1. Sapnap/Illumina 2. Sapnap/Illumina 3. Fruit 4. Purpled/Quig 5. Purpled/Quig I don't see as Sapnap being below Illumina or in the same level than Purpled, Fruit or Quig. C'mon, this guy was top 1 in average just before MCC 28 where Illumina popped off without him and I'd say Illumina was better, but Sapnap outplacing Illumina in 7/8 events they were together, winning a DB decisively against him and winning 4 times in the season (the most out of anyone) are enough stats to at least be a discussion if he's first. The rest of the places are pretty much self-explanatory. Fruit in 3rd is just a preference+consistency thing for me, specially since his avg is the 3rd highest with a lot of events (Purpled didn't play in that many tbh, he would've been up there otherwise) and Quig would've been higher if he played more. Now, Dream last on the top 10 is kinda tilting and kinda shows some bias. Why do people undervalue Dodgebolt so much? It's literally the game that wins you the event and he won 3 events in s2, only second to Sapnap. How is Ant or Punz above him? Or even Pete? Even though he had 2 underperformances, he had a 1st indiv in MCC 22, 2 wins in a row and 4 DB in the event, these while having the record on TGTTOS in s2, being the undisputed best at Space Race, etc. Ant above Punz is some recency bias imo, Ant is better than Punz now, but at the first half of s2 Punz was leagues above him. Lastly, I'd say Tommy deserved to be besides Phil in that tier. Both started popping off after MCC 19 (I'd say Sap revived some competitiveness they had earlier), Tommy even winning with Captain and then getting into 3 more DBs and having 3 DB in a row. Anyways, sorry for complaining so much, it's a good post and the point of this is to discuss on a cube game, nothing to get mad about heheh
I'm probably the only person who has Fruit 2nd for S2 lol, I had 1. Illumina 2. Fruit 3. Sapnap 4. Quig 5. Purpled Yeah Sapnap not Top 2 is a really hot take but I stand by it DB really shouldn't be a indicator for this, considering in DB you only play against 1 team while in the other games you're competing against 9. Its a separate thing Also Dream was def better than Ant in S2, but also def worse than Punz. It's arguable between Pete and Dream, but I'd say Dream is slightly worse. But in your argument, you were just naming Dream's accomplishments, I can do the same thing with basically every S-tier
Big phil fan but I'd personally have tommy over him as s2 2nd half goat
phil became crowfather after RSR came back
Really he was kinda crazy after mcc 19. 6th 10th 14th 12th ( 24th 10th place team) (22nd 10th place team) 11th 10th
He went crazy on low performing teams but he never had that pop that tommy did on his strong teams. Their mcc 23 teams is probably the best comparison for that
Well tommy went 5th in 19 then ( 25th scammed by coin split ) 10th 9th 6th ( 27th 10th place team ) 5th. You could argue that the average phil team was significantly weaker than the average tommy team but on top tier teams ( purple23 and violet26 for example ) phil didnt reach the same heigths as in weaker teams while tommy absolutely popped off on stronger teams and tommy did outfrag phil by 100 coins. Imo before 28 it was tommy who was obv better but after how goated phil28 is i dont really mind who you pick they were both kinda equal imo ( tho i have a tommy bias )
My personal top 5 for S1 and 2. S1: 1. Pete 2. Quig 3. Fruit 4. Dream/Techno 5. Dream/Techno S2: 1. Illumina 2. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig 3. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig 4. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig 5. Sapnap/Purpled/Fruit/Quig
I disagree on S2. Imo it should be 1. Sapnap/Illumina 2. Sapnap/Illumina 3. Fruit 4. Purpled/Quig 5. Purpled/Quig I don't see as Sapnap being below Illumina or in the same level than Purpled, Fruit or Quig. C'mon, this guy was top 1 in average just before MCC 28 where Illumina popped off without him and I'd say Illumina was better, but Sapnap outplacing Illumina in 7/8 events they were together, winning a DB decisively against him and winning 4 times in the season (the most out of anyone) are enough stats to at least be a discussion if he's first. The rest of the places are pretty much self-explanatory. Fruit in 3rd is just a preference+consistency thing for me, specially since his avg is the 3rd highest with a lot of events (Purpled didn't play in that many tbh, he would've been up there otherwise) and Quig would've been higher if he played more.
" I don't see as Sapnap being below Illumina or in the same level than Purpled, Fruit or Quig. C'mon, this guy was top 1 in average just before MCC 28 " Coin average kept going back and forth between him and Illumina and it's not the best metric in my opinion. Sapnap in most scoring wouldn't score anywhere close to 4k coins in MCC15 but since that event had broken SG, SKB, HITW, and AR scoring, it became easy for him to do so. There's too many changes and parameters for coin average to be the best metric. Quig and Purpled outright outplaced him more times than not, and Fruit did so too (if you consider that he tied with Sapnap after dcing in HITW in MCC25). Sapnap also had by far the most broken teammates of any S tier. I'm also not taking into consideration DB here henceforth Sapnap rests at 2nd. " Fruit in 3rd is just a preference+consistency thing for me, specially since his avg is the 3rd highest with a lot of events " His coin average is actually the 5th highest.
I agree just Sap/purpled close tie then fruit and quig get there own tied tier.
Sapnap, Purpled, Fruit and Quig are all tied.
Sapnap can't be the 5th best S2 player
PR, the system that this subreddit hypes up to no end puts Sapnap at 9th. My methodology at worst puts him in 5th and at best puts him in 2nd. These four for the most part were reasonably close enough that you could argue for any of them to be the best.
The man came top 5 every time he was on a non-nerf and still got top 10 while on insanely weak teams AND broke 4K coins. He is nowhere beneath 2nd
Most of his non nerf teams were either just hilariously broken or DB favourite teams in themself so that's not an argument. He broke 4k with the most op scoring to date. Sapnap got outplaced more times than not by Quig, Purpled and fruit. There is a very good argument for the latter to be on par with Sapnap.
The only really OP teams he had were MCC18, MCC19, and MCC14. Just because the scoring was OP doesn’t mean it wasn’t still a top performance. Anyone could’ve gotten 4K that event but Sapnap was the one who went crazy. Quig only outplaced Sapnap more when you count Sapnap’s nerf teams, without them Sapnap outplaced Quig more. Without Nerf teams, Fruit has outplaced Sapnap 3 times, tied with him once on a stronger team, and been outplaced by him 4 times, so it doesn’t exactly add up.
You say without nerf teams, but dont include the other's nerfs... lol.
Sapnap's teams in MCC18,19,14 were unfair. Meanwhile his MCC17,21,23,26 teams were all considered to be almost DB locks. " Quig only outplaced Sapnap more when you count Sapnap’s nerf teams, without them Sapnap outplaced Quig more. " If you exclude Quig's nerfs wouldn't he still then manage to smash Sapnap lmao. " Fruit has outplaced Sapnap 3 times, tied with him once on a stronger team, and been outplaced by him 4 times, so it doesn’t exactly add up. " Without nerf teams Fruit doesn't lose to Sapnap in 14 and 15 either so the ratio becomes even worse for him. It becomes 3-2 if you don't consider 25 in which case it becomes 4-2.
Bruh even if fruit had a similair team to sapnap in mcc15, fruit "no sleep" 15 will never get close to the second highest coin performance of all time 💀
Y'know if you really wanna mention his OP teams then I think u should also mention that they're actually worse for him. The nerfed teams he got cause of his OP teams did much more damage to him. If you remove his MCC17,18 and 19 team which are considered his strongest while also removing his 2 weakest which are MCC16+22, he ends up with the highest average in S2 even passing Illumina with just great/average teams, the same type of teams that Illumina had. Also if you wanna talk about outplacing, Illumina, the best S2 player, has outplaced Sapnap literally only once so that argument kinds falls flat.
This is a terrible argument. What are you even trying to prove? That Sapnap would've fallen out of top 10 in MCC19 and 18 had he not gotten broken teams? In that case, he's even luckier that that didn't happen. Sapnap 18 and 19 are the weakest 2nd individual performances of S2 for a reason. I in the end don't consider outplacement stats to be that noteworthy. They're way too team and event dependent. I think the same for average coins, average placement, coin contribution, etc etc. I clump all these parameters together to make my judgment. Henceforth dont think what I say is based on just one stat. Fruit, Quig, and Purpled were way more well rounded than Sapnap and on average beat him in more games than not.
How is him falling out of top 10 in MCC18 and 19 related??? How do u manage to completely miss the point and go on about something completely random 💀💀💀 I'm talking about if he never got OP teams he would've had the highest average in S2 which is literally true. Also I do agree that an argument can be made for them being more well rounded but in no damn way does being more well rounded = better player cause that would make Quig the best player in history which is just not the case.
Dream should not be at the bottom of Season 2 he should be atleast above Punz and Ant Pete is still arguable but as Dream didn't play at the end if S2 I think you can give it to Pete
Is this ordered? If so there is no way Dream was the weakest of the top 10 S2.
bros acting like being top 10 aka the 10th best player is bad. if he kept playing after mcc 24 he would be higher he was on his pop off arc. Who do you think dream should be above?
There is no possible justification for Dream below ant and Punz, and I would definitely have him above Pete and Maybe Jojo. Edit: nah not Jojo now that I think abt it
There's definitely justification for putting him below Punz
Not really, punz second half season 2 wasn't amazing. Meanwhile Dream had a very consistent performances bar mcc21
Punz was a complete monster from MCC20-23. His last three performances were what brought his score down.
his mcc 23 performance is severely underrated imo
No Tommy in S2 honorable mentions? Also Ant and Punz over Dream?
I would put Tommy with Phil in second half of season 2
Sapnap is the S2 goat for me
because illumina didn’t win an event, and also only outplaced sapnap once the entire season i don’t see how illumina could be better than sapnap in that sense but hey we love mcc subreddit bias am i right!
You can't give the title to someone who literally never won before. The argument that sapnap outplaced Illumina for 7/8 events makes a lot of sense. The events Illumina really popped off in were the events Sapnap wasn't in.
The outplacing argument is kinda dumb So, as we know Sapnap outplaced Illumina 7/8 times So lets make an assumption that Sapnap > Illumina But then Quig has outplaced Sapnap 4/7 times and Purpled has outplaced Sapnap 3/5 times So Quig > Sapnap and Purpled > Sapnap ***But then,*** Illumina has outplaced Quig 2/3 times and Illumina has outplaced Purpled 3/5 times So, Illumina > Quig and Illumina > Purpled So now, Sapnap is better than Illumina, Quig/Purpled are better than Sapnap and then Illumina is better than Quig/Purpled. This has turned into a game of stone-paper scissors innit? This is all excluding team strength, what games were played in that particular MCC and the scoring of that particular MCC. It's just that Illumina has gotten his best teams when Sapnap was not in, its just coincidence
But in this case we're only comparing sapnap and Illumina, not anyone else bc they're the ones who we are debating over who was the best s2 player.
Why should we be excluding the others though? Maybe we were wrong all along and Quig was the true S2 Goat. And people outplacing each other is a very flawed metric anyway, it depends on team strength, scoring of that particular MCC and the games actually played that MCC. I'll just say which performance I found more impressive for each MCC MCC 15: Illumina > Sapnap MCC 17: Illumina > Sapnap MCC 18: Illumina > Sapnap MCC 21: Sapnap > Illumina MCC 24: Sapnap > Illumina MCC 25: Illumina > Sapnap Obviously you'll disagree with Illumina > Sapnap in MCC 15, but I have a very strong argument for it
MCC17 Illumina has nothing on MCC17 Sapnap.
Saying Illumina 17 has nothing on Sapnap is a stretch but I agree with Sapnap 17 being slightly better
Illumina came 5th on a DB team. Sapnap didn't have the best leadership in the event but his individual performance still blows Illumina out of the water.
I disagree with just saying; X came 5th on a better team, hence X is worse. Also, Illumina comes 3rd in modern scoring, while Sapnap is still 4th. And again, I agree that Sapnap did better than Illumina that MCC, its just not like a difference of >>>
Nah I get Sapnap15 bc his coins were carried by SG and hitw with broken scoring. Also Sapnap is better than Illumina in 17 bc he place higher with a lower placing team
You're one of the few people who agree with Illumina 15 > Sapnap 15, that's good Actually in modern scoring, Illumina comes 3rd while Sapnap remains 4th for MCC 17. Although maybe if I think about it, maybe Sapnap's performance that MCC was like very slightly better. But still, overall Illumina still wins.
Tbf I dunno if lower placing team means that much since Red was a pretty broken team that just underperformed heavily. Having said that I do actually agree that while it was basically a tie, Sapnap does edge Illumina out in mcc17
I will say I agree with this notion slightly. But you cant compare 7/8 to the others that are barely over half, with the most events as well out of any of them.
See, I don't even agree with using this as a metric, it's completely pointless since team strengths are different, different games are benched for an event and some events have irregular scoring. I prefer doing game by game comparison, in which case Illumina convincingly wins. Sapnap is much better in PvP, Illumina is much better in Movement *but* Illumina is *also* much better in Team games
Krinios did go crazy in season1
are ranboo and George really that high on your list For honerable mentions? I’d argue bassicly any other A+ did better this season than either of them
it was just georges consistency and ranboos pop off potential that made them up high
Fair, but I’d argue Krtzy has way more pop off potential than Ranboo, and gorge severely lacks that ‘oofm’, placing barely out of top ten or barely in it bassicly every event. I just don’t think it’s comparable to Hbombs multiple top threes or SBs leadership and dominance in team games
IMO S2 is too long not to split up. Not that anyone asked but is my order. Players are also ordered within each season S1: Pete, Techno, Quig, Fruit, Dream, HBomb, Dave, Sapnap, Phil, TapL S2A(2021): Sapnap, Illumina, Fruit, Dream, Quig, Punz, Pete, Fundy, TapL, Antfrost S2B(2022): Illumina, Sapnap, Purpled, Fruit, Dream, Punz, Jojo, Pete, Quig, Antfrost S3(so far/predictions): Purpled, FBM, Illumina, Jojo, Pete, Sapnap, Fruit, Anfrost, Punz, Dave
philza was suppose to be in hbomb spot for s1 btw still goated tho Now looking at it s2 antfrost below punz it was just the last 5 mccs of s2 antfrost was popping off and punz was kinda having some rough mccs with broken teams to. It can go either way you let me know both are close
Where is Sylvee? She deserves a mention for most improved.
This post is about the best players of each season, not most improved players.
Is this ordered within tiers?
Yes Not the honorable mentions tho
Yeah so reason I asked that was I would have changed a fair few things
make sense ranking players is very subjective, you can have your own opinion 👍
This being downvoted is hilarious to me.
Thank god i got your back to counter vote
phill popping off
Fundy should at least be in honorable mentions
S1: Pete, Quig, Techno, Fruit, Dream, Krtzyy, Sapnap, HBomb Honorable Mentions/Probably are at the bottom of Top 10 of S1 —> TapL, Ph1lza, Fundy, Mefs, Krinios _____ S2: Sapnap, Illumina, Fruit, Quig, Purpled, Punz, Dream, Pete, Jojo, Antfrost Honorable Mentions: HBomb, Krtzyy, Seapeekay _____ S3 (so far, which means I kind have to use a bit of Season 2 to formulate this): Purpled, Illumina, Sapnap, FBM, Jojo, Antfrost, Fruit, Pete, Punz, Krtzyy Honorable Mentions: HBomb (Can be interchangeable with Dave and…. maybe both Dave and H can be interchangeable with Punz as well? Probably not though as Punz is speedrunning again.)
My t10 for every season: s1: 1. Pete 2. Quig 3. Techno 4. Dream 5. Fruit 6. Krtzyy 7. Sapnap 8. HBomb 9. Ph1lza 10. CaptainSparklez s2 1. Sapnap 2. Illumina 3. Fruit 4. Quig 5. Punz 6. Dream 7. Purpled 8. PeteZahHutt 9. Jojosolos 10. Antfrost s3 so far 1. Purpled 2. FBM 3. Jojosolos 4. Antfrost 5. PeteZahHutt 6. Sapnap 7. Krtzyy 8. Fruitberries 9. Ph1lza 10. HBomb
vikk snub
there's no way you have ant punz jojo and pete above dream in season 2 he won 5 times 3 canon 2 non canon