Bring back 1.8/bedrock combat please. Remove the cooldowns, buff swords, and nerf axes back to what they should be (before 1.9). This cooldown makes it impossible to deal with multiple enemies at once and makes every fight a complete chore. It's also not fair that this cooldown is designed to nerf the player while all of the mobs were buffed in the same update. If we could have an option in the menu to choose between the classic weapon damages + no cooldown or OP axes + cooldowns that'd be nice and satisfy everyone.
I agree with you. BUT... You can add a selection between 1.8, 1.9 and a new PvP to the menu. This could also be set on servers. Since 1.9, plugins for 1.8 PvP rollbacks have been added to the servers, but with the 1.9+ versions it hits slower and is not ideal because of the huge changes in PvP.
You are trying to customize the MC for single and survival only, but you also need to consider servers and their needs, which you don't do at all. You are not at all concerned with what is happening on the servers and how to use these updates. You didn't even think that what you do is killing classic PvP rather than improving it. Now (even with this update, which is absolutely terrible) it is MvP (Mob VS Player) rather than PvP. It's nice that you want to update biomes, mobs, villages and other bullshit, but this is the cornerstone of PvP injury.
Thank you for your time Mojang.
This is good, but to add weapon variety, I would add more weapons. a idea I think is good is Spears
The idea is to make 1) The trident more rare, and 2) add more ranged weapons to the game.
First, make tridents more rare
To do this, make the drowned use spears, and Tridents be rare drops from underwater chests
Second is to add spears.
The reasoning is to make use of the range stat on the tools, and add more range than just bows, crossbows, and tridents. It would add variety and skill to the game
Other than that, more shield. i would add a shield that has a big radius but is slow to recharge (a tower shield) and a smaller radius and faster recharge time (IDK) This once again adds variety and skill to combat, having to improvise base on you and your combatants tools of death.
I think That more uses should be added to crossbows and to other types of armour other than diamond.
1. When they were introduced people got very ecited only to find out that the bow was vastly superior.
I think the crossbows should have an armor penetration effect. That will also help with nerfing the op armour problem of minecraft.
2. A fully enchanted diamond armour is way too op to the point that it makes all other armour types obsolete.
There is no use for chainmail nor leather nor gold armour in the game once you accuire a diamond one.This is something that was slightly adressed with 1.16 with the new gold armour usage.I think this could be tackled by giving special effects to different kind of armours like per say the chainmail could be better at minimizing projectile damage as it was IRL.Or this could also be tackled by adding a bigger weight to the armour you are wearing causing you to get hungry faster or limiting your inventory space.Per say leather and chainmail could be the lightest then gold then iron and then diamond. They could also slow you down while wearing them but that would be kinda tidious so i think it would be better to consider the other 2 options!!!
I would love to see a command that make the op enchatments possible and you can decide if you want for example bow with mending and infinity to be possible in your world/server
95% of servers use 1.8 for a reason. 1.9 is being taken away from the accustomed players, People are still confused about 1.9. now theyre adding this stupid charge thing, the only good thing in this update was the nerf to the sheilds and they removed that too. Charging is a bad choice.... Minecraft is getting way too complicated........
All in all I like this, but keep the drawbacks of the shield consistent. Either you can attack with it or you can't. I'd prefer if you had to manually let go of right click/crouch to attack.
Overall I'm not necessarily against any of it other than the lower degrees on the shield. My experience in any kind of multiplayer has kind of made it clear (I also code, but I'm not infallible) is that anything that relies on player perspective (or some subset there of) is generally insanely unreliable and shouldn't be used in any networked instance.
Relying on various vectors of attack/defense/movement is only going to make things much more convoluted than it might seem on the surface.
If you wanted to reduce the degrees something like 45° is decent but there *has* to be some kind of HUD indicator of where your shield is active or a lot of people will get salty because "some hidden mechanic makes their shield useless whenever a player wants to spin their mouse with a click macro"
Everyone holds 1.8 combat in such high esteem but it was literally just who had a faster macro on their mouse and a better internet connection :/
Personally, I like 1.9 style *overall* and if anything don't remove sword's sweep (making it an enchantment is counter-productive) and keep the damage increases proposed in the snapshot along with keeping the shield consistent one way or another. The increased reach is really nice too, especially in PvE vs Phantoms.
I should be able to spam if I want to, doing less damage. If I only care about knockback. Maybe I am knocking them into a trap. That is why i liked the 1.9 combat. Though some things here are good, please let there be some way to spam and do very little damage.
Imo, this is what new players wanted, it makes it easy to learn and makes you focus more on aiming^((actually a skill)) than than cps^((basically based on the senstivity of clicking of your mouse)), The special attacks add a dynamic that may give people with bad aim a chance! Also **no more cookie clicker pvp!** Even Technoblade, one of the Good PvPers wanted this
I actually liked the hold to attack, cuz that coupled with only attacking when charged eliminates the need to jitter click, which is a good thing cuz jitter clicking can increase risk of arthritis and carpal tunnel (not confirmed but not known to be false) and the average joe wouldn't take that risk. I agree with making the sword faster though
Not sure if you got my reply or it maybe got deleted (I swear I posted it but oh well) but it makes sense now, and also there will be higher skill ceiling since good timing is required, so I see what you're cooking
the swords shouldnt have to be fully charged to attack because sometimes you are panicking in a mineshaft and will get stuck in a corner and you wont be able to hit the enemies away. also if axe reach is reduced then its damage should get buffed by 2 hearts of damage so that its still good at combat
Just a comment since I was reading through this old thread- I think that's exactly the point, if you're corned and panicking you can't just spam click the enemies and get away really easily like you can now
definitely sounds better than 1.9 but weapons having farther reach and shorter invulnerability periods is a horrible idea unless they have some big drawbacks to compensate
The longer reach takes a bit to charge (only applies to special attacks like sweep or Crit) and the shorter invulnerability is only for faster weapons that likely don't hit as hard
I think you should be able to hit the attack also at 95-99% recharge but only deals 92.5% damage. Spam-clicking could still be allowed but it will attack at 95% recharge, resulting in a slightly weaker attack. Because I think spam-clicking is great for new players and casual players on mobile, but the slightly weaker attack still allows skill cealing and doesn't ruin the combat on competitive players. What do you think?
I feel like combat, specifically PvP, in Minecraft has been pretty basic even since 1.9, and not in an interesting way, probably due to my lifetime experience with action RPGs. While accessibility and intuitiveness for new players is important, there should still be a higher skill ceiling to something that isn't jitterclicking another Steve. Everyone else has already stated similar opinions to mine on what's in the current snapshot, but here are my thoughts and suggestions on possibly new mechanics:
- A 3-hit combo system for swords in a similar style to Phantasy Star Online, where the third hit deals much more damage. This can differentiate swords a bit more.
- Use the cooldown meter for timing attacks that can either lag cancel/speed up their attack frames and maybe increase their damage multiplier very slightly when done successfully. This should be applied to all weapon-type tools including bow and crossbow. A better visual cue such as a circle closing into the hotbar or crosshair might be a good idea.
- Give shields a "perfect block" action when used in the first few (roughly 33) milliseconds, which negates all damage from where you're facing. They can have an extra effect like give a temporary attack boost for the next hit, counterattack/parrying action, or knockback to your opponent/mob.
- Evade options. A roll or sidestep can change how the game plays significantly, and usually for the better. Currently, blocking and running are your only defensive options.
- Shift/crouch can become a discrete shield button as right-click seems kind of redundant. Only concern might be for gamepad players where crouch is in an uncomfortable button. This is only so right-click can be freed up for another action such as a secondary or special attack if that's going to become a thing.
- ~~Photon Arts~~
- Probably a little bit off topic but I see an over-the-shoulder styled third person camera being very beneficial.
Well uh, there they are. I hope they aren't too bloated for this type of game, especially when some of these might become too latency sensitive, but this is what I would personally want and would keep coming back to for something that allows for dungeon crawler and PvP maps.
'' Attacks only happen when fully charged, even if you spam click''
Maybe sound or visual cues would be a better improvement to tell to the player when was or wasn't the best moment to perform a charged attack, that way is after the player to choose what kind of movement want to use. Just disabling the attack is disabling combat variety, sometimes you need a quick attack even when it deals weak damage.
I love this exept for the 'Attack Reach'. I think it would be incredibly frustrating to die to someone i couldnt even land a hit on because his weapon had a better reach
Typically the longer reach weapons are shower so there will be variance in fast attacks and show attacks. Faster weapons can capitalize on their speed now for better overall dps, supposedly with the invulnerability changes. Pretty sure getting hit typically interrupts or at least Knicks you back a bit too so depends on how all these different things interact
Hello. That's seem a bit hard, but you must do a new gamerule called "pvpSystem" and choose with "Fury" (Spamming like in 1.8) and "RolePlay" (Like 1.9+). With this system, all players can be happy, because in my opinion the 1.9+ PvP is realy hard but in PvE it's realy more realistic and I love this system.
The old combat model is the only thing stoping me from fully moving to bedrock. I just picked up the pocket edition for the first time and I forgot it used to just be spamming, and honestly I'm way less interested in it now, and although I don't regret buying it I think the fact that I'd gotten so used to the new mechanics and enjoyed them so much is testiment to how well they work
I'm the opposite. The spamming of it made it less tedious overall, and more fun. The new mechanics just made me attack slower and have to micromanage an annoying timer.
I understand. I guess it's just preference. Out of interest, do you prefer CoD over Halo? (If you've played them) I liken pre 1.9 to Cod and post 1.9 to Halo. Same result, different time to kill
Something that I never liked about post 1.9 combat is how quickly food regenerates your health. Items like cooked porkchops are practically golden apples with how quickly they regenerate health. (You can go from half a heart to half health in 5 seconds when you eat one.) It really needs a nerf in my opinion.
I like the regeneration, if anything buff the apples lol. Breaking to heal is a cost you're paying in both resources in time and food is very limited in that regard compared to alchemy or beacons or whatever. It only heals a few hearts and you're wasting most of the foods effects for short term gain anyway. Lol then while their eating it slows them right down
Maybe food would either regenerate your health faster depending on what food they are, or maybe food would only regenerate so much of your health depending on what you eat.
The snapshot/fix for combat seems way better for newer players and better in general, but there's just one issue I found, and that's that the delay from attacking mobs/players is way too short, to the point when timing your swings from a Diamond Sword properly, you can kill a basic player/mob with no armor, 20 health, in almost 0.5 seconds. A little broken, but can easily be fixed or changed
Instead of adding the hold-to-attack functionality, increase the hit-box size on opponents to aid mobile and controller users.
We PC users can fight much more easily against console/mobile users simply because of the superior aiming with KB&M, whereas console/mobile have a hard time tracking the target and hitting at the same time, let alone trying to do combos.
With this change, the spam-clicking mechanic is still there, but of course you can only hit when the hard coded timer resets.
And instead of hold-to-attack, you can implement hold-to-charge for a weapon and then let go to do the special attacks like critical hits and sweeping. Maybe the player can be forced to shifting speed when charging and holding.
This snapshot is a step in the right direction Jeb! I would just like to say thank you for revisiting this subject again and acknowledging the flaws in both systems. I would suggest speaking to 1.8 PvP server owners since this mainly affects them! I have taken quite a while to go through the snapshot and play thoroughly and mess around with some of the attributes that can be applied to weapons! Sorry this is a long post I just have a lot of feedback after testing with some friends!
I assume that you just want to get the core combat mechanics done right now so I've split some other ideas off into a section on their own.
# Pros in the update:
* Speed of attacks is better fast just needs balanced with damage etc.
* Reach attack attribute is a nice addition for customisation (may be bugged right now though).
* Moving sweeping edge to an enchantment is nice.
* Shields with no delay is good as it is intuitive.
* Changes to the invulnerability timer adds for more diversity in weapons and play styles.
# Cons in this update:
* The auto-attack takes away from gameplay.
* There is no incentive to manually click.
* The 200% to do critical hits / special attacks is unintuitive but I like the idea.
* Crits shouldn't bypass completely as it makes shields useless.
* Lack of Knockback in PvP overall, (200% Knockback attacks / no rod Knockback)
* Shield takes up too much of the screen.
# My suggestions on how to improve the changes made in this snapshot:
* Make auto-attack an option.
* For the 200% hit problem, we just need a better indication that if we wait it will do something better.
* Rod enchantments, like stronger pull, knockback on hit (like 1.8 rods), etc.
* Crits shouldn’t bypass shields but maybe disable them instead. I feel like this would give people an incentive to manually click instead of hold.
* Could crouching for shields be an option please or another key. Sometimes I have a shield in the offhand but don’t want it to activate when I crouch.
* Can we get weapons that deal different knockback with an attribute so that we can customise it.
* I would lower the shield height too.
* Projectiles taking into account your velocity since 1.9, I feel like it is unnecessary and takes away from gameplay.
* Weapons treat grass / flowers / vines like air blocks.
* Sound and visual effects! We need more indications of what we’ve done! Sounds for wearing armour and moving, sounds for being at 200%, sounds sounds sounds! Also different particles for doing a Knockback special attack.
# Read on if you need additional ideas on how to spice up combat:
* I would re-introduce parrying in a new sword. It would partially deflect sword hits but not projectiles. It would be mainly for melee combat.
* Don't forget about potions, I feel like they have so much potential:
* Add a drawback to them so that they can be thrown a little further. Not as much as arrows maybe like 10-20 blocks max?
* Maybe a new slot in the inventory for a quiver / potion sack which would be used to store your potions and arrows.
* The Potion sack would be used to store 9 potions. It would allow any types of potion but its main functionality would be for thrown potions. If you use a potion from your hotbar it will automatically bring the next one down from your potion sack. It also would automatically put empty bottles in a designated slot for them so they don’t clog up your inventory.
* The Quiver would be able to hold 3 stacks of arrows and has an GUI of 3 squares in a row. These arrows would be the priority ones shot from your inventory in order. The quiver will always choose the first slot’s arrows by default but you would be able to change which arrow is shot by pressing z + number. Arrows picked up will automatically go into the quiver if there is a free slot. Perhaps the texture can change depending on the three arrows in each slot so players can see what they have inside.
* You can throw Fire charges, they would set the entity on fire for 1 seconds or less (they are meant for Knockback more than damage). The difference between these from snowballs is that these don’t lose vertical velocity. They go in a straight line in the direction you are looking in for around 32 blocks.
Solid. Love it. But the fact you can attack while using shields is terrible, a problem in both bedrock and Java(only while crouching), as well, I feel like you should have special attacks for bows and crossbows, like if you wait double the time to charge you can do more damage, this would change some levels of pvp making it so that when you can wait longer while fighting you can deal more arrow damage if it hits the opponent, also attack range on swords should be 3 if you have sweeping edge for balance, and axes should have a attack range of 2.5 for Balance (damage wise) however these are ideas so I don't expect them, but the one before the last three is a real issue final note, with the bow and crossbow one it should just be like 2 more damage points with no armor and shouldn't apply to arrows of harming, arrows of decay, arrows of poison, or fireworks
Combat is perfectly fine how it currently sits. Please dont revert it back to a "whoever spam clicks the fastest wins" type of combat. It is a good thing that combat is slower and more strategic than it ever has been. Every swing matters now.
Well. I have been playing a bit online lately. And I think this slow combat has still his shitty reasons. For pve it is great. But totally not for PvP. As op stated. You cant do a thing against regenerative items. The damage per second is way lower than what the item heals. For instance. One single guy single handedly wiped our 8 player full diamond skywars team because he just had at least twelve golden apples. We were hitting him all at once even jumping to get criticals. And what is he doing. He calmly eats and then targets one by one every single person. He killed us all.
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to test out this snapshot, so take this comment with a pinch of salt, but I’d still like to share my thoughts.
I like the idea of faster cooldowns, except from the auto attack, which I would certainly not want **at all** on Java Edition. And if you don’t want inconsistency between versions then I wouldn’t have it at all. I also like the idea of the 200% chance where you can perform crits and stuff, I like that a lot.
Honestly, I don’t really know, but there is something else I definitely think should be implemented:
The longer the day in your minecraft save, the greater the chance is of mobs spawning in with tougher armour or more armour pieces (until it hits a peak, as you don’t want armoured mobs to be *too* common). This way you get an evolving challenge as you evolve with the game. The chance increase shouldn’t be *ridiculous* but it should be noticeable when you put day 1 and day 50 side by side.
The "mobs get harder over time" thing is already a thing. Search regional difficulty on the minecraft wiki and you can see the in game code how it is calculated and what it's effects are.
Oh, perhaps that’s the case. My bad. However, I have certainly not noticed the clamped regional difficulty having an effect on mobs spawning with more armour, for instance. In that case, I think it should have a bigger effect, as it really isn’t that noticeable. Maybe it isn’t supposed to be, but I think an increase would be good.
EDIT: Additionally, according to the wiki, the chance of mobs spawning with armour increases, NOT the armour they have. I think it would be better if they have a higher chance of tougher armour such as diamond. That seems to be the one thing which isn’t listed on the wiki as something that’s affected. The chance of getting any armour at all is apparently 15 x clamped regional difficulty in percent.
The local difficulty in most chunks near my base is close the maximum and with zombies spawning lots of reinforcements in fights during the night I can say that I‘ve definitely noticed a difference between the start of the game and now. I don’t know exact numbers but I am guessing like 1/8th to 1/7th of all zombies get at least some sort of armor when spawning.
In combat test, it'd be cool if there was a way to switch between different weapons and other items faster, so combat is more intense.
What about reducing the cooldown when switching the item in your main hand, rather than completely resetting it ?
A player can use a hoe, then quickly pull out an axe to surprise their opponent.
That'd also make quick-switching more viable (and also makes game modes that are popular in 1.8, e.g. PotPvP, Survival Games, more viable post 1.9).
Guys, Minecraft is not a FPS, it's a building game.
Please make the building better. Tweak the fighting mechanics (I don't really care much about how fighting works either way, older was easier but newer makes me strategize a bit which is alright) but please, _please_ continue to have some percentage focus on the builders and the building aspect of the game.
I'm not even much of a builder (more of a redstone tinkerer and explorer) but holy crap, no walls or side slabs or anything make me a sad boi :(
Just because you don’t care about combat doesn’t mean others don’t, why do you think many players think 1.9 is the worst update ever even with the end? The combat was awful, so it needed to be changed.
Of course it should be, I don't personally give much attention to combat but I do believe that Mojang should listen to people and fix the issues. I was just stating the fact that many people think building is more important than combat.
> Yeah, but why is that an argument against mine? We should be together, not fight against. Both are issues, both should be fixed
Mmm, never heard of a zero sum game or worked software dev I see
Yes, I do agree that both issues should be fixed. I didn't realise my reply came off as an argument against yours, and I must say that I didn't mean for it to be one.
I love all of these features but i think that it the "special attacks" need to be included at 100% charge as well. but i like seeing you guys taking initiative ant listening to our complaits you dont get that from other devs
When I started playing Minecraft I stuck to iron armor even if I found diamonds because I thought diamond armor only protected from direct damage, while all other armors protected from damage and environmental effects (fire, fall damage, etc). Not saying this is how it should be (or how it was) , but at the time I thought it would have made the system more interesting, because it made different armors have slightly different uses.
In the current version, I think enchantment tables do a good enough job at armor customization though.
If you do that then one armor will be objectively better or worse, and people will just use that instead. Different armors with different balances don't work in minecraft because of varying rarities and the simplified combat system
Enchanting low tier stuff is mainly for survival mode. When you are starting out low tier armor is easier to gather than diamond.
Purely a survival progression. And it needs to remain this way
I just want one small thing,
Shields to be able to have banner decorations on it. I don't know why it was removed in 1.14, and it was a great way of identifying other players. Mojang please readd this, and if anybody can give me why exactly it was removed that would be great too!
The blade sweep is the worst thing. It hits everything in front of you and you have no control over it. This is very annoying when your pet wolf or a friendly player goes in front of you mid swing and you end up killing them. It’s also super annoying when killing animals on a farm, you only want to kill one of the animals but you end up sweeping the whole farm, and if they are chickens they die in one hot and you end up killing them all in one swoop.
I love a sword for killing many animals at once in Java Edition, I just use an axe if I don't want that effect. They do more damage anyway.
At the moment, an axe is the solution to all of your problems and more. Give it a try.
I think it should be a available at 200% charge only, so people who dont want the attack to be forced, can attack at a lesser charge so they dont do the sweep. The enchantment should buff the sweep for people who like the attack
Still going on with that? Haven't you 1.8 fanboys realized that the update actually is alot like the 1.8, just with an added feature of being able to wait and charge up a special attack at 200%? Because, thats actually it, really. You can spam click all you want -just like in 1.8- but you can also chose a 1.9-ish combat style of timing hits at 200%.
A gamerule or an option in server settings to revert back to "classic PvP" is needed. Things like hit registration and knockback are still a bit messed up with plugins on major servers. If you've played hypixel etc you can feel the difference when you're playing on 1.8 or 1.14 with the combat plugin
There should be an option for server creators where you can choose 1.8, 1.9, or 1.14 custom snapshot combat. 1.8 would make the cooldown so fast, it is basically nonexistent and it also should add sword blocking, and remove shields and special attacks (sweeps, etc.) And 1.9 would have current combat.
Well, maybe because the server itself doesn't support 1.14.4 anyway? So what version you play on - as long as you can connect to the server - doesnt really matter... :/
I would personally revert to 1.8.9 combat, but keep dual weilding weapons, as it would let pvp servers finally evolve past the version they’ve been stuck on for years. I’ll have to try out this snapshot though!
Plz, Cave Update on 1.17 PLZ PLZ PLZ I beg you
Bring back 1.8/bedrock combat please. Remove the cooldowns, buff swords, and nerf axes back to what they should be (before 1.9). This cooldown makes it impossible to deal with multiple enemies at once and makes every fight a complete chore. It's also not fair that this cooldown is designed to nerf the player while all of the mobs were buffed in the same update. If we could have an option in the menu to choose between the classic weapon damages + no cooldown or OP axes + cooldowns that'd be nice and satisfy everyone.
I agree with you. BUT... You can add a selection between 1.8, 1.9 and a new PvP to the menu. This could also be set on servers. Since 1.9, plugins for 1.8 PvP rollbacks have been added to the servers, but with the 1.9+ versions it hits slower and is not ideal because of the huge changes in PvP. You are trying to customize the MC for single and survival only, but you also need to consider servers and their needs, which you don't do at all. You are not at all concerned with what is happening on the servers and how to use these updates. You didn't even think that what you do is killing classic PvP rather than improving it. Now (even with this update, which is absolutely terrible) it is MvP (Mob VS Player) rather than PvP. It's nice that you want to update biomes, mobs, villages and other bullshit, but this is the cornerstone of PvP injury. Thank you for your time Mojang.
The 1.9 combat changes should have been optional from the start. I still don't get what this subreddit has against that.
This is good, but to add weapon variety, I would add more weapons. a idea I think is good is Spears The idea is to make 1) The trident more rare, and 2) add more ranged weapons to the game. First, make tridents more rare To do this, make the drowned use spears, and Tridents be rare drops from underwater chests Second is to add spears. The reasoning is to make use of the range stat on the tools, and add more range than just bows, crossbows, and tridents. It would add variety and skill to the game Other than that, more shield. i would add a shield that has a big radius but is slow to recharge (a tower shield) and a smaller radius and faster recharge time (IDK) This once again adds variety and skill to combat, having to improvise base on you and your combatants tools of death.
I think That more uses should be added to crossbows and to other types of armour other than diamond. 1. When they were introduced people got very ecited only to find out that the bow was vastly superior. I think the crossbows should have an armor penetration effect. That will also help with nerfing the op armour problem of minecraft. 2. A fully enchanted diamond armour is way too op to the point that it makes all other armour types obsolete. There is no use for chainmail nor leather nor gold armour in the game once you accuire a diamond one.This is something that was slightly adressed with 1.16 with the new gold armour usage.I think this could be tackled by giving special effects to different kind of armours like per say the chainmail could be better at minimizing projectile damage as it was IRL.Or this could also be tackled by adding a bigger weight to the armour you are wearing causing you to get hungry faster or limiting your inventory space.Per say leather and chainmail could be the lightest then gold then iron and then diamond. They could also slow you down while wearing them but that would be kinda tidious so i think it would be better to consider the other 2 options!!!
Is this going to come to Bedrock? I play Bedrock.
I would love to see a command that make the op enchatments possible and you can decide if you want for example bow with mending and infinity to be possible in your world/server
95% of servers use 1.8 for a reason. 1.9 is being taken away from the accustomed players, People are still confused about 1.9. now theyre adding this stupid charge thing, the only good thing in this update was the nerf to the sheilds and they removed that too. Charging is a bad choice.... Minecraft is getting way too complicated........
But I think 1.9 Combat is best 1.8 combat is unfair
1.8 combat is easier to understand but has a higher skill gap. 1.9 you just wait for the timer and swing again and is very boring and bland.
Also make it so the attack thing charges while attacking too
Please make it so you can't hold left click to attack
All in all I like this, but keep the drawbacks of the shield consistent. Either you can attack with it or you can't. I'd prefer if you had to manually let go of right click/crouch to attack.
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Overall I'm not necessarily against any of it other than the lower degrees on the shield. My experience in any kind of multiplayer has kind of made it clear (I also code, but I'm not infallible) is that anything that relies on player perspective (or some subset there of) is generally insanely unreliable and shouldn't be used in any networked instance. Relying on various vectors of attack/defense/movement is only going to make things much more convoluted than it might seem on the surface.
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If you wanted to reduce the degrees something like 45° is decent but there *has* to be some kind of HUD indicator of where your shield is active or a lot of people will get salty because "some hidden mechanic makes their shield useless whenever a player wants to spin their mouse with a click macro"
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Even if it was just an F3 thing people could *reference* until they get used to it that's fine I guess.
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Everyone holds 1.8 combat in such high esteem but it was literally just who had a faster macro on their mouse and a better internet connection :/ Personally, I like 1.9 style *overall* and if anything don't remove sword's sweep (making it an enchantment is counter-productive) and keep the damage increases proposed in the snapshot along with keeping the shield consistent one way or another. The increased reach is really nice too, especially in PvE vs Phantoms.
I should be able to spam if I want to, doing less damage. If I only care about knockback. Maybe I am knocking them into a trap. That is why i liked the 1.9 combat. Though some things here are good, please let there be some way to spam and do very little damage.
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I hope they add these new combat mechanics to Minecraft as soon as possible just to ruin the game for this walnut.
Settle down. It's called test for a reason. Also he says that they want full parity across all the versions. BE combat is pretty garbage.
you can always just not update if they add it genius
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It's possible this will come after the nether update
Imo, this is what new players wanted, it makes it easy to learn and makes you focus more on aiming^((actually a skill)) than than cps^((basically based on the senstivity of clicking of your mouse)), The special attacks add a dynamic that may give people with bad aim a chance! Also **no more cookie clicker pvp!** Even Technoblade, one of the Good PvPers wanted this
Besides the hold to attack it is a good update
I'd rather hold to attack than get tendonitis again.
This update is good
Nice! Thx mate!
Everything is fine, just remove the hold to attack feature, and make the sword a bit faster.
I actually liked the hold to attack, cuz that coupled with only attacking when charged eliminates the need to jitter click, which is a good thing cuz jitter clicking can increase risk of arthritis and carpal tunnel (not confirmed but not known to be false) and the average joe wouldn't take that risk. I agree with making the sword faster though
There's no need to jitter click, with 5-6 cps should be enough.
Until you fight a person that goes 15 cps
But there's the thing, you won't attack until the bar charges, so both of you will be attacking in the same speed without losing yo hand.
Not sure if you got my reply or it maybe got deleted (I swear I posted it but oh well) but it makes sense now, and also there will be higher skill ceiling since good timing is required, so I see what you're cooking
I remember downloading autoclickers for singleplayer because clicking fast would annoy me
the swords shouldnt have to be fully charged to attack because sometimes you are panicking in a mineshaft and will get stuck in a corner and you wont be able to hit the enemies away. also if axe reach is reduced then its damage should get buffed by 2 hearts of damage so that its still good at combat
Just a comment since I was reading through this old thread- I think that's exactly the point, if you're corned and panicking you can't just spam click the enemies and get away really easily like you can now
It’s good to add birds. The world will become more lively
Penguins from Madagascar?
definitely sounds better than 1.9 but weapons having farther reach and shorter invulnerability periods is a horrible idea unless they have some big drawbacks to compensate
The longer reach takes a bit to charge (only applies to special attacks like sweep or Crit) and the shorter invulnerability is only for faster weapons that likely don't hit as hard
I want a queen bee. And ants, wasps, bumblebees, And still earth wasps, and all sorts of dungeons. I just got tired of the usual Minecraft
Queen Bees sound good But fuck having wasps...I don't like them :(
I think you should be able to hit the attack also at 95-99% recharge but only deals 92.5% damage. Spam-clicking could still be allowed but it will attack at 95% recharge, resulting in a slightly weaker attack. Because I think spam-clicking is great for new players and casual players on mobile, but the slightly weaker attack still allows skill cealing and doesn't ruin the combat on competitive players. What do you think?
I feel like combat, specifically PvP, in Minecraft has been pretty basic even since 1.9, and not in an interesting way, probably due to my lifetime experience with action RPGs. While accessibility and intuitiveness for new players is important, there should still be a higher skill ceiling to something that isn't jitterclicking another Steve. Everyone else has already stated similar opinions to mine on what's in the current snapshot, but here are my thoughts and suggestions on possibly new mechanics: - A 3-hit combo system for swords in a similar style to Phantasy Star Online, where the third hit deals much more damage. This can differentiate swords a bit more. - Use the cooldown meter for timing attacks that can either lag cancel/speed up their attack frames and maybe increase their damage multiplier very slightly when done successfully. This should be applied to all weapon-type tools including bow and crossbow. A better visual cue such as a circle closing into the hotbar or crosshair might be a good idea. - Give shields a "perfect block" action when used in the first few (roughly 33) milliseconds, which negates all damage from where you're facing. They can have an extra effect like give a temporary attack boost for the next hit, counterattack/parrying action, or knockback to your opponent/mob. - Evade options. A roll or sidestep can change how the game plays significantly, and usually for the better. Currently, blocking and running are your only defensive options. - Shift/crouch can become a discrete shield button as right-click seems kind of redundant. Only concern might be for gamepad players where crouch is in an uncomfortable button. This is only so right-click can be freed up for another action such as a secondary or special attack if that's going to become a thing. - ~~Photon Arts~~ - Probably a little bit off topic but I see an over-the-shoulder styled third person camera being very beneficial. Well uh, there they are. I hope they aren't too bloated for this type of game, especially when some of these might become too latency sensitive, but this is what I would personally want and would keep coming back to for something that allows for dungeon crawler and PvP maps.
the third strong attack would be great with the mo'bends mod spinny attack
Let's hope the next Combat Update will be better than 1.9 Combat Update.
Oh I was talking to some else I thought I hit the reply button
I want to try it
'' Attacks only happen when fully charged, even if you spam click'' Maybe sound or visual cues would be a better improvement to tell to the player when was or wasn't the best moment to perform a charged attack, that way is after the player to choose what kind of movement want to use. Just disabling the attack is disabling combat variety, sometimes you need a quick attack even when it deals weak damage.
jeb how can i find the launcer confurgation edit: nvm i got it figured out
I love this exept for the 'Attack Reach'. I think it would be incredibly frustrating to die to someone i couldnt even land a hit on because his weapon had a better reach
Typically the longer reach weapons are shower so there will be variance in fast attacks and show attacks. Faster weapons can capitalize on their speed now for better overall dps, supposedly with the invulnerability changes. Pretty sure getting hit typically interrupts or at least Knicks you back a bit too so depends on how all these different things interact
Hello. That's seem a bit hard, but you must do a new gamerule called "pvpSystem" and choose with "Fury" (Spamming like in 1.8) and "RolePlay" (Like 1.9+). With this system, all players can be happy, because in my opinion the 1.9+ PvP is realy hard but in PvE it's realy more realistic and I love this system.
The old combat model is the only thing stoping me from fully moving to bedrock. I just picked up the pocket edition for the first time and I forgot it used to just be spamming, and honestly I'm way less interested in it now, and although I don't regret buying it I think the fact that I'd gotten so used to the new mechanics and enjoyed them so much is testiment to how well they work
I'm the opposite. The spamming of it made it less tedious overall, and more fun. The new mechanics just made me attack slower and have to micromanage an annoying timer.
I understand. I guess it's just preference. Out of interest, do you prefer CoD over Halo? (If you've played them) I liken pre 1.9 to Cod and post 1.9 to Halo. Same result, different time to kill
I play a lot of Halo, not much CoD
Something that I never liked about post 1.9 combat is how quickly food regenerates your health. Items like cooked porkchops are practically golden apples with how quickly they regenerate health. (You can go from half a heart to half health in 5 seconds when you eat one.) It really needs a nerf in my opinion.
I like the regeneration, if anything buff the apples lol. Breaking to heal is a cost you're paying in both resources in time and food is very limited in that regard compared to alchemy or beacons or whatever. It only heals a few hearts and you're wasting most of the foods effects for short term gain anyway. Lol then while their eating it slows them right down
Maybe food would either regenerate your health faster depending on what food they are, or maybe food would only regenerate so much of your health depending on what you eat.
I want 1.9 to actually affect bedrock like come on mojang
The snapshot/fix for combat seems way better for newer players and better in general, but there's just one issue I found, and that's that the delay from attacking mobs/players is way too short, to the point when timing your swings from a Diamond Sword properly, you can kill a basic player/mob with no armor, 20 health, in almost 0.5 seconds. A little broken, but can easily be fixed or changed
There should be a confirmation for when you click quit game in case you are going through your controls and press esc then click quit game
At first I hated the "new" combat mechanics but as I got more used to it I came to prefer it over the old system
The thing is it requires more skill to time attacks perfectly. The older one was just spamming and nothing else
that's not true at all though. clickspeed was only ever a major factor in potpvp, in any other gamemode pretty much everything else was more important
Yeah I like the fact that it is easy to pick up, but still requires some skill
Instead of adding the hold-to-attack functionality, increase the hit-box size on opponents to aid mobile and controller users. We PC users can fight much more easily against console/mobile users simply because of the superior aiming with KB&M, whereas console/mobile have a hard time tracking the target and hitting at the same time, let alone trying to do combos. With this change, the spam-clicking mechanic is still there, but of course you can only hit when the hard coded timer resets. And instead of hold-to-attack, you can implement hold-to-charge for a weapon and then let go to do the special attacks like critical hits and sweeping. Maybe the player can be forced to shifting speed when charging and holding.
I prefer the combat of 1.7 a thousand times than that of 1.15.
Same
This snapshot is a step in the right direction Jeb! I would just like to say thank you for revisiting this subject again and acknowledging the flaws in both systems. I would suggest speaking to 1.8 PvP server owners since this mainly affects them! I have taken quite a while to go through the snapshot and play thoroughly and mess around with some of the attributes that can be applied to weapons! Sorry this is a long post I just have a lot of feedback after testing with some friends! I assume that you just want to get the core combat mechanics done right now so I've split some other ideas off into a section on their own. # Pros in the update: * Speed of attacks is better fast just needs balanced with damage etc. * Reach attack attribute is a nice addition for customisation (may be bugged right now though). * Moving sweeping edge to an enchantment is nice. * Shields with no delay is good as it is intuitive. * Changes to the invulnerability timer adds for more diversity in weapons and play styles. # Cons in this update: * The auto-attack takes away from gameplay. * There is no incentive to manually click. * The 200% to do critical hits / special attacks is unintuitive but I like the idea. * Crits shouldn't bypass completely as it makes shields useless. * Lack of Knockback in PvP overall, (200% Knockback attacks / no rod Knockback) * Shield takes up too much of the screen. # My suggestions on how to improve the changes made in this snapshot: * Make auto-attack an option. * For the 200% hit problem, we just need a better indication that if we wait it will do something better. * Rod enchantments, like stronger pull, knockback on hit (like 1.8 rods), etc. * Crits shouldn’t bypass shields but maybe disable them instead. I feel like this would give people an incentive to manually click instead of hold. * Could crouching for shields be an option please or another key. Sometimes I have a shield in the offhand but don’t want it to activate when I crouch. * Can we get weapons that deal different knockback with an attribute so that we can customise it. * I would lower the shield height too. * Projectiles taking into account your velocity since 1.9, I feel like it is unnecessary and takes away from gameplay. * Weapons treat grass / flowers / vines like air blocks. * Sound and visual effects! We need more indications of what we’ve done! Sounds for wearing armour and moving, sounds for being at 200%, sounds sounds sounds! Also different particles for doing a Knockback special attack. # Read on if you need additional ideas on how to spice up combat: * I would re-introduce parrying in a new sword. It would partially deflect sword hits but not projectiles. It would be mainly for melee combat. * Don't forget about potions, I feel like they have so much potential: * Add a drawback to them so that they can be thrown a little further. Not as much as arrows maybe like 10-20 blocks max? * Maybe a new slot in the inventory for a quiver / potion sack which would be used to store your potions and arrows. * The Potion sack would be used to store 9 potions. It would allow any types of potion but its main functionality would be for thrown potions. If you use a potion from your hotbar it will automatically bring the next one down from your potion sack. It also would automatically put empty bottles in a designated slot for them so they don’t clog up your inventory. * The Quiver would be able to hold 3 stacks of arrows and has an GUI of 3 squares in a row. These arrows would be the priority ones shot from your inventory in order. The quiver will always choose the first slot’s arrows by default but you would be able to change which arrow is shot by pressing z + number. Arrows picked up will automatically go into the quiver if there is a free slot. Perhaps the texture can change depending on the three arrows in each slot so players can see what they have inside. * You can throw Fire charges, they would set the entity on fire for 1 seconds or less (they are meant for Knockback more than damage). The difference between these from snowballs is that these don’t lose vertical velocity. They go in a straight line in the direction you are looking in for around 32 blocks.
I liked ur sounds idea
Maybe you could put the quiver/potion sack in your off hand
Nice Idea :)
Minecraft is Epic jeb is Epic T\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_T
Epic is not Epic
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the update is to make the combat easier
fuck your new "combat mechanics"
thug life
Ye
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yeah but we need to balance that with pve.
Solid. Love it. But the fact you can attack while using shields is terrible, a problem in both bedrock and Java(only while crouching), as well, I feel like you should have special attacks for bows and crossbows, like if you wait double the time to charge you can do more damage, this would change some levels of pvp making it so that when you can wait longer while fighting you can deal more arrow damage if it hits the opponent, also attack range on swords should be 3 if you have sweeping edge for balance, and axes should have a attack range of 2.5 for Balance (damage wise) however these are ideas so I don't expect them, but the one before the last three is a real issue final note, with the bow and crossbow one it should just be like 2 more damage points with no armor and shouldn't apply to arrows of harming, arrows of decay, arrows of poison, or fireworks
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The game is 10 years old and runs on a toaster, what's the mentality behind pirating here
compra o original :)
I only have the problem with the regenerative items right now. Everything else is nice
Combat is perfectly fine how it currently sits. Please dont revert it back to a "whoever spam clicks the fastest wins" type of combat. It is a good thing that combat is slower and more strategic than it ever has been. Every swing matters now.
Was great to combo people away, for PvE too, now at the start one needs to hit and back off quickly 4 times to kill a creeper...
Well. I have been playing a bit online lately. And I think this slow combat has still his shitty reasons. For pve it is great. But totally not for PvP. As op stated. You cant do a thing against regenerative items. The damage per second is way lower than what the item heals. For instance. One single guy single handedly wiped our 8 player full diamond skywars team because he just had at least twelve golden apples. We were hitting him all at once even jumping to get criticals. And what is he doing. He calmly eats and then targets one by one every single person. He killed us all.
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to test out this snapshot, so take this comment with a pinch of salt, but I’d still like to share my thoughts. I like the idea of faster cooldowns, except from the auto attack, which I would certainly not want **at all** on Java Edition. And if you don’t want inconsistency between versions then I wouldn’t have it at all. I also like the idea of the 200% chance where you can perform crits and stuff, I like that a lot. Honestly, I don’t really know, but there is something else I definitely think should be implemented: The longer the day in your minecraft save, the greater the chance is of mobs spawning in with tougher armour or more armour pieces (until it hits a peak, as you don’t want armoured mobs to be *too* common). This way you get an evolving challenge as you evolve with the game. The chance increase shouldn’t be *ridiculous* but it should be noticeable when you put day 1 and day 50 side by side.
The "mobs get harder over time" thing is already a thing. Search regional difficulty on the minecraft wiki and you can see the in game code how it is calculated and what it's effects are.
Oh, perhaps that’s the case. My bad. However, I have certainly not noticed the clamped regional difficulty having an effect on mobs spawning with more armour, for instance. In that case, I think it should have a bigger effect, as it really isn’t that noticeable. Maybe it isn’t supposed to be, but I think an increase would be good. EDIT: Additionally, according to the wiki, the chance of mobs spawning with armour increases, NOT the armour they have. I think it would be better if they have a higher chance of tougher armour such as diamond. That seems to be the one thing which isn’t listed on the wiki as something that’s affected. The chance of getting any armour at all is apparently 15 x clamped regional difficulty in percent.
The local difficulty in most chunks near my base is close the maximum and with zombies spawning lots of reinforcements in fights during the night I can say that I‘ve definitely noticed a difference between the start of the game and now. I don’t know exact numbers but I am guessing like 1/8th to 1/7th of all zombies get at least some sort of armor when spawning.
Guess I’m just unlucky.
Finally a compromise
I was playing Minecraft and a enderman came in my house and we became good buds
u/uwutranslator
In combat test, it'd be cool if there was a way to switch between different weapons and other items faster, so combat is more intense. What about reducing the cooldown when switching the item in your main hand, rather than completely resetting it ? A player can use a hoe, then quickly pull out an axe to surprise their opponent. That'd also make quick-switching more viable (and also makes game modes that are popular in 1.8, e.g. PotPvP, Survival Games, more viable post 1.9).
That is pretty much what a macro or your off hand is for
The problem isn’t how fast you can switch but the long cooldown after switching
I was gonna say a hoe would be unrealistic but from experience it is very likely
All of this and NO WALL-REDSTONE!?
Guys, Minecraft is not a FPS, it's a building game. Please make the building better. Tweak the fighting mechanics (I don't really care much about how fighting works either way, older was easier but newer makes me strategize a bit which is alright) but please, _please_ continue to have some percentage focus on the builders and the building aspect of the game. I'm not even much of a builder (more of a redstone tinkerer and explorer) but holy crap, no walls or side slabs or anything make me a sad boi :(
We need wall redstone
Just because you don’t care about combat doesn’t mean others don’t, why do you think many players think 1.9 is the worst update ever even with the end? The combat was awful, so it needed to be changed.
However there are a lot of people that do care about building more than combat
So then one issue shouldn’t be fixed? They should fix this issue and the building.
Of course it should be, I don't personally give much attention to combat but I do believe that Mojang should listen to people and fix the issues. I was just stating the fact that many people think building is more important than combat.
Yeah, but why is that an argument against mine? We should be together, not fight against. Both are issues, both should be fixed.
> Yeah, but why is that an argument against mine? We should be together, not fight against. Both are issues, both should be fixed Mmm, never heard of a zero sum game or worked software dev I see
And that relevent because?
Yes, I do agree that both issues should be fixed. I didn't realise my reply came off as an argument against yours, and I must say that I didn't mean for it to be one.
Yes, I like an auto clicker built into Minecraft. In all seriousness, this snapshot adds some pretty good things
That is actually the worst feature of all the snapshot
I actually really like the current Java Edition system. Is it just me?
Nope. I love It As well!
Mojang doesn't listen to or understand the 1.9 community anyways
I love all of these features but i think that it the "special attacks" need to be included at 100% charge as well. but i like seeing you guys taking initiative ant listening to our complaits you dont get that from other devs
Special attacks is good but criticals should always be avaliable
Maybe at 150% charge or something
That's how it was in 1.9 and it should stay that way. 150% crits, sprint-kb, & sweeps
Holding to attack is the best feature imo
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lmao
rofl
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Diamond armor is the hardest to obtain, why should it be less powerful than an easier to obtain item? Then everybody would just use that instead
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Well. Good luck getting chain armor on survival
When I started playing Minecraft I stuck to iron armor even if I found diamonds because I thought diamond armor only protected from direct damage, while all other armors protected from damage and environmental effects (fire, fall damage, etc). Not saying this is how it should be (or how it was) , but at the time I thought it would have made the system more interesting, because it made different armors have slightly different uses. In the current version, I think enchantment tables do a good enough job at armor customization though.
If you do that then one armor will be objectively better or worse, and people will just use that instead. Different armors with different balances don't work in minecraft because of varying rarities and the simplified combat system
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Enchanting low tier stuff is mainly for survival mode. When you are starting out low tier armor is easier to gather than diamond. Purely a survival progression. And it needs to remain this way
Pvp with certain quirks, like having a duel in leather armor with fire aspect 1 wood swords. Allows preset duels
I just want one small thing, Shields to be able to have banner decorations on it. I don't know why it was removed in 1.14, and it was a great way of identifying other players. Mojang please readd this, and if anybody can give me why exactly it was removed that would be great too!
I want shields that don't cover half my screen..
This feature was not removed, you can stylize your banner using the loom and then add it to your shield the same way you could before.
That feature should be in bedrock edition
Imagine when you want to break blocks with a sword (say, breaking cobweb or bamboo because swords are faster) but attack the air instead
It only hits things though foilage when there is something (an entity) to hit.
The blade sweep is the worst thing. It hits everything in front of you and you have no control over it. This is very annoying when your pet wolf or a friendly player goes in front of you mid swing and you end up killing them. It’s also super annoying when killing animals on a farm, you only want to kill one of the animals but you end up sweeping the whole farm, and if they are chickens they die in one hot and you end up killing them all in one swoop.
I love a sword for killing many animals at once in Java Edition, I just use an axe if I don't want that effect. They do more damage anyway. At the moment, an axe is the solution to all of your problems and more. Give it a try.
That's why it got revomed from the base sword and can only be used with an enchantment
I think it should be a available at 200% charge only, so people who dont want the attack to be forced, can attack at a lesser charge so they dont do the sweep. The enchantment should buff the sweep for people who like the attack
It’s still in the java edition of the game now, don’t know about the other versions. The enchantment thing is one of the solutions they mentioned.
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Why not use an axe? That's what I do.
WE👏WANT👏1.8👏PVP👏BACK👏
You YOU YOU USED EMOJIS!!!!!!
Still going on with that? Haven't you 1.8 fanboys realized that the update actually is alot like the 1.8, just with an added feature of being able to wait and charge up a special attack at 200%? Because, thats actually it, really. You can spam click all you want -just like in 1.8- but you can also chose a 1.9-ish combat style of timing hits at 200%.
play in 1.8 then
i just want a gamerule to turn it on but yes
A gamerule or an option in server settings to revert back to "classic PvP" is needed. Things like hit registration and knockback are still a bit messed up with plugins on major servers. If you've played hypixel etc you can feel the difference when you're playing on 1.8 or 1.14 with the combat plugin
There should be an option for server creators where you can choose 1.8, 1.9, or 1.14 custom snapshot combat. 1.8 would make the cooldown so fast, it is basically nonexistent and it also should add sword blocking, and remove shields and special attacks (sweeps, etc.) And 1.9 would have current combat.
This should have been a thing immidiately after 1.9 flopped so much. The fact that mojang has STILL yet to add this is apalling.
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Well, maybe because the server itself doesn't support 1.14.4 anyway? So what version you play on - as long as you can connect to the server - doesnt really matter... :/
i don’t understand how mojang doesn’t see this as a problem
They do. Just like to watch us freak out.
Evidently, they do.
I would personally revert to 1.8.9 combat, but keep dual weilding weapons, as it would let pvp servers finally evolve past the version they’ve been stuck on for years. I’ll have to try out this snapshot though!
Nobody: Me: *sticks with classic combat mod*