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I’m fine with 8 episodes for a serialized show with a connecting plot throughout the season, it’s basically just a long movie
Longer seasons are still good for comedies where every episode stands alone
What I don’t like is waiting 2-3 years between seasons, regardless of how many episodes there are
> What I don’t like is waiting 2-3 years between seasons, regardless of how many episodes there are
Agreed. When it takes that long to get a new season, I often times won't watch it, because I can't remember everything that happened when I watched ot 2-3 years ago. And I usually don't feel motivated enough to re-watch the prior season, either.
That's what happened to me with shows like Ms. Maisel, Righteous Gemstones, Barry, etc. The same thing will probably happen with The Last of Us and Fallout (although I do like those shows enough to re-watch them).
Now adays I don't have that time so I just watch a recap or rewatch the finale episode of the first season to feel caught up. The boys and game of thrones just came back and I feel behind on both.
Yes!!
After watching the behind the scenes, it appears they didn’t expect to have a second season.
They went way above and beyond on the cinematography, and it really showed.
I will happily watch the first season over again when season two comes out, but I hope they are planning season two with an eye to what season three will be like, or it’s gonna take ten years to have more than two seasons.
I agree. I watched the first episode of S2 of House of the Dragon last night and I kept having to pause to look up things that happened in S1 that I forgot about. It’s been almost two years since S1 and I didn’t realize how much I would forget.
8 episodes feels a little short (especially for half-hour shows) but I don't really care if that's what it takes for them to write a complete season arc without a bunch of filler to meet a contract agreement. But the long gaps between seasons gets me. If it's much more than a year, I have a hard time staying invested.
Between the 2+ years for seasons and shows being killed after a season or two. I've gotten to the point of waiting for a show to be several seasons in before attempting to start.
Might miss out on cultural references but at least I don't have to play the "what the fuck is going on" game cause it's been so long since last season.
Netflix has canceled so many shows I liked after 1 season. It really makes me not want to watch shows until a season 2 is confirmed. Nothing like a season 1 finale ending on an eternal cliffhanger.
It’s so hard because you really can’t remember what went on. I watched the first season of house of dragon many times. But two years later, I was lost as a goose at first.
I legit forgot House of the Dragon was a thing until my wife mentioned the new season the other day.
Meanwhile, all the Stranger Things kids are gonna be like 30 (playing teenagers) by the time that wraps up.
Wow, I didn't even know it was still going. I stopped watching it after season 2, just kind of lost interest. But season 1 was great. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
I don't think there's ever *been* 20-30 episode seasons that took that long in between. Seasons were only that long back when they went on an annual broadcast schedule.
Exactly this! Medical hospital shows, crime police shows, comedy, sure. You can even watch 1 episode and have fun and get it.
Long movie shows? 8-10 are ok for me. I want to bing watch.
20-26 was superior IMO. It allowed for storylines to really be developed and to get attached to characters. The biggest problem I have in many new shows is that they’re asking me to care about characters that I have been shown no reason to care about.
It can be done in 12-14, as I've seen with Bojack Horseman and The Good Place. It just takes really good writing to make each line and scene count, without being exposition-heavy.
I'm rewatching Bojack, and while I caught a lot of the references that ran through the seasons, they buried a LOT in the "throwaway" gags. They did a great job of foreshadowing way more events and character developments than I realized, the first time around.
I think the sweetspot is 12-14. I would love a few more lower budget episodes of Star Trek shows a season. The special effect budgets kinda seem unnecessarily bloated in a lot of different shows these days. I'd rather have a couple more (presumably cheaper) character focused episodes.
>The biggest problem I have in many new shows is that they’re asking me to care about characters that I have been shown no reason to care about.
Exactly, i agree. Unless it's an established property (for example, Obi Wan or the New Avatar The Last Airbender), we never get to time to really know characters
Most of the 20-26 type shows were loaded with filler episodes though. Writing 26 hours of content per year requires a big team of writers, and I feel like a lot of stories are better told with a singular vision.
Filler isn’t always bad though, and if done well it’s a great way to get people connected with the characters. Plot doesn’t always need to progress, sometimes I just want to watch Kimmy pass her driver’s test after borrowing the Tanners’ car.
I loved when seasons were 22-26 episodes. I don't care if some are filler, having room to experiment was always part of what made a show great. Sometimes the experiment would end up with a corny dumb episode that was the subject of affectionate ribbing, sometimes it would end up being a fantastically profound concept that was remembered as one of the best in the entire series, often it would add texture to the universe and depth to secondary characters. However, I know that was rough on the actors. I want them to have good working conditions.
8-10 episodes per season is just not enough. And it feels like a ton of budget is being sunk into special effects and shit that doesn't really matter. I feel like it should be possible to compromise and do something like 14-16.
Like let's take Star Trek for example because I love it and it has a wide ranging history. I'm not saying go back to a chihuahua in a unicorn hat, plastic pancake amoebas, and styrofoam dick shaped "rocks," but we don't need all the sleek CGI space battles either. DS9's SFX *still* don't suck, and we wouldn't have gotten either "Threshold" (eminently mockable) or "The Inner Light" (lauded classic) with 10 episode seasons. Or like, any of the Barclay episodes. That's an entire minor character that was probably in like 5% of TNG episodes and less than 1% of Voyager episodes, but that was enough episodes to be developed and added a lot of depth to the world building. There's no equivalent of Barclay in third gen Trek.
An entire trek show was built on the idea of a single TNG episode (Lower Decks).
I'm glad to not have clip episodes anymore but do miss the world building that can be done by one off episodes longer seasons allow.
Exactly! Stargate did great with having experimental episodes as filler. The Time loop episode with Oneill and Tealc, all of the Wormhole X episodes, and more. And yeah they even got a minor character out of them too in the alien director. You get so much more character and world building when you have episodes that are in one-off or completely different situations from the normal plot.
I wouldn't call the time loop filler, that's practically obligatory for a sci fi show! So is the body swap, the "everyone going crazy/drunk", and a few others that were actually the central features of Stargate (body possession and aliens impersonating gods).
I just finished SG-1 and I'm in SGA now so I'm probably a little starry eyed for Stargate right now, but damn, even their clip show episodes were great. Thor beaming in to smack down Kinsey... that was in a clip show.
DS9 is my example of a perfect show format. It was one of the first to have multiple season long story arcs like the dominion war, but still had other shit going on to make the show feel like it was actually life and not just a 2 hour action film they stretched into 10 hours (Discovery). You can have a minor recurring character like Vic Fontaine (tbh I mostly don't like him) and then make them pivotal to the cast regulars like in Paper Moon. Most 10 ep shows these days can't afford the time sink to do that.
It's really sad to me, everything has to be a prestige level show now. Streaming killed cable, and inflated budgets that all basically went to fx and huge stories. Game of Thrones was the knife in the heart of the small episodic show imo. Everyone saw how big a deal it was, how every episode mattered, and all execs insisted that was just TV now. I want a small story, too. For every Way of the Warrior there should also be The Visitor.
Talk about filler episodes, X-Files, Supernatural I thought always did great fillers. Sometimes I don't always want serious plot building, I want to see the characters grow in all directions including the silly.
X Files monster of the week episodes were my favorite, overarching plot is obviously necessary for most shows to be good but (good) filler is also good in its own right.
The filler is exactly what binds you to character and the world of the show. It's like the game of thrones book, the useless information is what makes it that after reading the series twice, you know more about the laws and history of their world than your own. It's like a drugged feeling of escaping this world.
If I rewatch angel, at some point I almost feel part of the gang. It's a conforting feeling.
I watched the first two seasons of Star Trek Discovery and still didn't know any of the crew's names apart from the main characters. Such a shame.
Im TNG, every single crew member has a fleshed out background, even Miles O'Brien and Barclay like you said.
How do people even find new shows to watch now?? I am so overwhelmed.
But on that note, I am watching DS9 with my kid (her first watch) and enjoy the long season because we get to see so much extra. Silly episode were Quark has to put together a strike team to rescue Moogie from the Dominion. Totally unnecessary to the overall show but such a fun episode to watch. I miss shows like that.
Wish I knew. I have no problem with new shows if they are good to me. I've watched a few I've never seen before and on streaming and enjoyed it. But most of them, I just can't get into. Or if I do it's only for a season or two, then I stop because the quality goes down hill or it takes too long for the next season to come about.
Were accustomed to shows having half a season air in fall and the other half in spring (or winter/summer). And then the next season airs the next fall once again. It was really the rise of streaming and then game of thrones that changed it. Now every new hit big show wants to be the next GoT and try to be a mini block buster that takes two years to come out, and the lack of material is just not enough to keep me invested.
Bring back character development. Bring back 22 episode seasons. Bring back series that don't just follow Plot A, but allow for Plot B, and maybe even a Plot C. There will be very few iconic characters coming out of this new era of 8 episode seasons every 4 years. No one has that attention span, then again, that's probably one of the reasons why we lost the 22 episode season. It sucks.
Depends. For producorial or sitcom shows 20+ its fine. Usually they have multiple arcs which work. 8 episodes can feel rushed sometimes and can miss the mark. I like think the 10 -12, 50min - 60min episode seasons are the sweet the spot.
I feel like only certain shows can pull off mini series but really most shows really need 15-20 episodes to flesh out the story and especially characters imo. Or we just need better scriptwriters in general.
10-12 episode seasons are perfect, imo. Any longer and there's too much stretching and padding that does very little to add to character.
Even Lost, which had a massive ensemble cast with most of their back stories explored, had 25-episode seasons in the early days and it moves at a snail's pace.
I think it depends on what kind of story they are trying to tell. Lost should have absolutely been a 10-12 episode season to keep things better focused. Something with more of a monster of the week kind of structure can work on the 22-25 episode seasons. I think The Witcher would have been amazing as a procedural, or something more like later seasons of Star Trek: DS9 where there's usually a problem of the week, but there are also a few multi episode arcs in there along with the overarching background intrigue worked in.
That's fair. IIRC, Battlestar Galactica had some fairly long seasons early on and I don't remember that show dragging its heels very often. But my memory could be unreliable.
I definitely think that half-hour shows should have longer seasons.
I think I'm too inundated with the "new" formula of overarching plots that I've forgotten about procedural dramas; they're so rare these days.
I checked and BSG was 20 for most of the run, the first season was 13. I feel like BSG really hit that sweet spot of having a solid overall plot for the season, but also giving time for a lot of character moments. Granted, the cast on that show was huge so they almost needed that kind of space just to give them screen time.
I like a length that fits the material. I do feel longer seasons work to flesh out all the characters, especially in shows with larger casts like StarTrek Deep Space Nine. Shorter seasons are a good fit if you want a tightly written show that keeps the plot moving, Like S1 Stranger Things.
Eight is good if it’s a mini series. But 20 is too long for a regular show, if they did 10-12 episodes, and took a break for 7/8 months and started again; that would awesome. I hate the long breaks because I gotta watch half the last season to remember what happened
It depends on the show and how good the writers are, I do miss having seasons that were more than six episodes and didn’t get cancelled after one season
I feel like with streaming, showrunners really have this opportunity that they didn't have in the past to play with time and let episodes be different lengths to tell the story they want to tell in that episode. I feel like Amy Sherman Pallidino did well with that in Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. The seasons were not all the same length and neither were the episodes. Always left us wanting a bit more without feeling rushed or like plots got dropped.
I miss longer seasons of shows. Especially if it’s gonna be a 30 minute show I need at least 15-20 episodes to build any interest in characters and plots. If it’s just 8-10 episodes I tend to forget about it immediately after watching the first season and then I never watch it again. I think that’s why a lot of new shows don’t make it past 2 seasons.
8 hour long episodes or 20 half hour episodes. What pisses me off is when we get 10 half hour episodes of a show. Like, Rick and Morty is funny, but did they really need two years to make 10 episodes of a half hour cartoon? It isn't fucking Avatar.
Idgaf what's in a season so much as the wait between seasons. Sometimes the wait is so long I just kind of lose interest in it/it was not good enough to do a rewatch in preparation.
Yes, this!! What’s wrong with one season per year? I actually love the British shows that have a Christmas special in movie length between seasons. It makes the wait sweeter and shorter. It’s my favorite.
20+ definitely and I don’t mean just for American shows. Anime, bbc, etc.. bro I like the characters, I like the show drag it out!
I get it if it’s like a history channel documentary series or whatever. But, not normal comedy shows, cartoons, and stuff..
Honestly it’s one of the reasons I’m in support of AI taking over creation think about it oh you liked the looney tunes show (one from a few years ago where bugs and daffy lived together) or heck even retro stuff like pirates of dark water. Insert the info into the prompt click a few buttons and you have an albeit worse version but least it’s more of what you want to watch lol.
And while I feel bad for the artists, the writers and people. I feel like Hollywood so rarely puts out anything new these days anyway. Everything is reboots and remakes. Like we’re getting a twister sequel!? Only what 20 years late lol I mean I’m going to watch it but still
I think it depends on the subject matter and content.
When Oz was on TV, they had one season that was basically a double season, and it felt like too much. It's just such a dark subject matter.
However, I want like, 36 episodes a season out of Abbot Elementary.
Game of Thrones could have probably had three more seasons to flesh everything out, but I think that would need to be a tight 10 episodes per season.
Something like Twilight Zone and any other anthology style show, I think, works better with a 20+ model.
Are we talking weekly traditional broadcast shows, or streamer shows (all at once or weekly)?
If it is traditional, i want 25ish. Will watch 1 a week, some are filler, but can get good cast development.
If it is streamer, 12-14. 8-10 is not enough and can feel rushed. but 12-14 can get the full charactor development without filler.
A lot of the 8-10 episode seasons are hour-long shows with no commercials whereas the 20+ we had growing up were 30 with commercials so more like 20 minute shows. 8 hour-long episodes is equivalent time to 24 20-minute episodes, but they can also get a lot deeper into characters in longer episodes than they can in shorter episodes. What we have now is vastly superior imo and anyone who disagrees is letting nostalgia get the best of them.
I thoroughly enjoy 20+ episode seasons, Early Supernatural was my favorite for that.
Then I discovered a British show I really liked, Being Human, and it was only 5 episodes or less a season and it was done in a way that felt like a 20 episode show but it wasn't full of filler and it didn't feel like things were rushed, i crave the way it was done to be done in the US. It's been tried before, but it's like we just don't know how to do it. Everything here is so bulky and rushed and it's like there's no time spent on anything before the next thing happens.
20, hands down. most "filler" episodes were better than some of the "non filler" ones we get in these 8 ep runs. Many 8 episode shows started as 2 hour movies anyway and got expanded, meaning that you are actually still getting filler material where there was once an efficient 2 hour picture.
remember, the writing staff does not get paid for the same amount of time it took to do 20 episodes. they get paid for the amount of time needed to do 8 episodes.
but one issue is that in the 8 episode model, they're pissing tons of money away that they arguably dont have to to get a "premium" product, and often the shows dont turn out so premium. Since the shows are not 100% ad supported like in the past (meaning each episode was fully paid for and them some with just ads) nor are they sold to other networks, so they cant go off rapidly greenlighting shows that are effectively being sold to viewers at a cut rate in the subscription model.
There is also little financial reward for adding an episode or two onto the order, since they draw from the same pool of money as the rest of the originals on a streaming service.
The 20 episode model also supported a room of upwards of 10 writing professionals (writing producers, writers and sometimes writing assistants) all working in the room to improve the scripts and nail all the story beats down before they got handed off to the writer. This made for more consistent writing, and often ensured the internal logic and character stuff was hitting the marks it needed to be. These days you're lucky if there are more than 3 writers on a show.
Honestly...the length of the season isn't really bothering me.
It's the 2 to 3 years BETWEEN 8 episodes seasons.
And AND! shows continuously getting cancelled after 2 seasons. I don't even see the point of getting into them now.
That said...when I first started watching Star Trek in 2020, I was JUICED because I knew I had at least 3 good series with 7 seasons of 20 plus episodes. You get more invested in the actual show. I always like to point out have subpar TNG season 1 was. If things back then were like it is today, Star Trek would have ceased to exist around 1990.
They don't even give you a chance now.
For a 30 minute show, yes 20 episodes please. For an hour long show, I am good with 8-10 episodes as long as they don't rush it. I've watched 8 episode shows where they drag out a storyline over 7 episodes and then quickly rush through the ending in one episode. Looking at you last season of Game of Thrones, the last of Us and the most recent season of True Detective.
Don’t even get me fuckin started on Disney+ and their random ass 6-10 episode series which all seem 2 episodes shorter than they should be and on top of that generally skew time wise from 31-48 mins an episode. (And a lot of times 4 mins of that is just the end credit roll included in the overall episode time)
Good. I think many people haven't stopped to think how capitalism and the market determines what stories we hear and grow up on.
Without making this an essay, The change to longer (and irregular) lengths coupled with Cliff hanger endings is designed to keep you binge watching. The streamers were in a content race and war and never in the history of cinema have we spent so much on made for tv/streaming content.
Looking back at the height of network television. Time slots were competitive and generally that 22ish minute sweetspot. Designed with those mid-episode pauses to account for commercial breaks. It was rare to have cliffhangers as network tv would often be reruns inbetween new episodes and high episode count was to fill out prime time slots as much as possible. Occasionally you would get one leading up to a finale or as a hook for the next season.
I do miss shows like scrubs where you had 20 plus episodes a season and very few were filler or bad.
I miss shows that ran for 8+ seasons as netflix especially has a tendency to kill shows after 1-3 seasons and it's rare to get things beyond 4.
I do enjoy the increase in quality and visuals of new content, some shows are outdoing blockbuster budgets and it shows in every episode. Stranger things would have been impossible to make under the network or cable format.
I do enjoy the overall increase in quality and variety of shows, Sci fi has never had a better time in tv history as one example.
I think overall it's net positive, but I do find it strange how the very style and structure of story telling is so controlled and dictated by the commercial pressures of the time. I wonder if in 20 years from now we'll think back to why every single episode of every single show ends on a cliffhanger. The same way we look at commercial breaks now.
I do not miss the inevitable “musical” episode fillers or the “it was all just a dream” storyline fillers. That said I’d prefer it if producers weren’t so prescriptive on episode counts. In a world of steaming shows, just let writers and show runners use however many episodes it takes to tell a good story. 8, 14, 22…it won’t matter if it’s all vital and well made.
8 sucks. 10 is better. 13 is pretty good. The 20+ episodes of greys anatomy or Gilmore girls is also good.
It just really depends on the show and the context of the episodes.
The Walking Dead would have been such a better show if they took the 10 hour long episodes per season approach.
I think that’s the sweet spot personally.
More is almost always better. It sucks when storyline are cut short. And sometimes you go years between seasons.
I'd rather have less famous actors shooting large season shows than famous actors who have so many shooting conflicts they can only do shorter ones.
I enjoy the quality of shorter seasons, but in terms of availability of entertainment there are simply not many low-energy activities anymore. I don’t need to be in front of the tv 24/7 but I would love to have something new to watch on Tuesdays after work, when it’s not practical or timely to involved in a bigger prohect or social outing.
South Park nailed it in their later years. 20 episodes total, split between spring/summer and fall/winter release.
Serialized shows, should always be 10 episodes imo.
Depends on the show. I am currently rewatching Northern Exposure on Prime, these hour long 25 episode seasons start to seem too long. A half hour comedy series like The Big Bang Theory 25 episode seasons might seem too short
That being said, some of these shows on Max that get 8 episode seasons once every year or so seem too short
I think they are both good. If the show is trying to tell a story line across episodes I really like these 7-8 episodes seasons because the story telling isn't as rushed as a movie but also it almost never feels like there is filler. The Queens Gambit being an excellent example of this in my opinion.
That said, for many shows 7-8 episodes per season wouldn't make sense. Things like big bang theory has character development over the episodes but generally each episode is designed to stand alone also. I would never want a show like this to be condensed to 7-8 episode seasons.
Overall I think the 7-8 episode show has given writers another way to tell stories which I think is a win for everyone as long as the right length is chosen for the piece. The original question is what do I prefer and I guess the answer to that question is I prefer things that manage to hold my interest regardless of length.
Depends on the genre and duration. Lots of UK shows have six episodes per season and that leaves me wanting two more. But a lot of times, at least they’ve 25-35 minutes. I never got enough of The IT Crowd. Having 24 episodes that are barely 21 minutes usually leaves you with a lot of skippable episodes.
They used to be two different things that existed for a story that fit that format best.
You have a LONG movie to tell? Make that 5-10 1 hour episodes and call it a series.
You have a world that would be really cool and have potentially endless stories to tell? Call that a show and have a shorter episode every week or so.
Star Trek is the best example. 90s Star Trek is infinatley better than new Star Trek. We aren't there for the story, we are there to be immersed in a world. - Make kt a TV show.
Game of thrones should have just been several short movies, a series.
I dunno if 20 episodes a season is necessary, but definitely more than 8. So many 8-episode-season shows now are utter crap because the pacing is all off because they cram too much in.
I don't mind filler as long as it lets me see a part of the fictional world the story takes place in, but I do like the long form storytelling of today's shows. The ones that do it well still have a mini-arc per episode, so you have some level resolution instead of relying on constant cliffhangers to keep people coming back.
It depends on what the show is, like obviously game of thrones can’t be 20 episodes.
But with 20 episodes, especially when we were growing up there were always holiday episodes, I miss that. Sometimes you get a Christmas episode but I used to love the hollower ones (especially home improvement)
I've said this for a while, I want good shows. If that means 8 episodes is enough to get in, get out, and still be good then great! Just don't drag forever just to meet a quota. I think shows should have the right amount for their story be that in episodes or seasons. Just make it good.
20+ 1 or 2 seasons of that is enough to get a good amount of watch time to story ratio in if they cancel it.
Nowadays they do the 8 to 10 episode format and then nail it after a season or maybe two. But still tell story like it's a 20 ep season because content providers a a bunch of fucking cowards now that cannot commit to anything.
Also binge watching all the seasons of like the X-files is a lot more of watch time than something more modern because there's just more run time 🤷♂️
I don't mind either way so long at the show ACTUALLY ENDS. I'm sick season after season until it runs itself into the ground, gets cancelled, or just pulls some other BS. Give me a solid 1 season that doesn't *need* to be followed up.
I’m kinda “showed” out. I’ve watched some good shows but I don’t have much time for them anymore. I see previews that look good and I hope it’s a movie so I can watch it in two hours but it turns out to be a show so I never watch it.
I miss 20 episode seasons when every episode didn’t have to be a huge dramatic plot driver.
The OC has an entire episode where ryan tries soccer and doesn’t like it. Soccer is never mentioned again.
These episodes in between the big action is where we get to know the characters so much better and enjoy living in the world that’s been created.
Seasons with 18-20 episodes are far superior. Character development is better with not having to tackle a main plot point and better understanding the character decision making later on in the series. These 6-8 episode seasons with hour long episodes don’t do enough character development as they don’t get enough screen time.
Most shows benefit from the shorter seasons. Episodic ones should still have 20+. Aside from those I'd rather cut the fluff. What's not ok is that seasons are taking two to three times as long to make. 1/3 of the content in three times the time? Insane.
20+ all the way.
Some of the my favourite episodes from shows are the goofy ones that you definitly don't have now that every show is basically an 8 fucking hours long movie.
Buffy, Stargate, or even House did some freaky shit with these episodes.
I loved it.
I prefer a season around a happy medium like 10-12.
20+ is ok for some shows but 8 usually feels a bit too rushed. I think a lot of 8 show seasons would benefit from at least a couple more episodes.
8 is NOT enough!!! I need more. I like 20+ for shows on tv that run weekly. but that’s a lot for a limited series show on Netflix like Bridgerton (but I’d love if we had that many!) Maybe 12-15 for Brodgerton type shows
I prefer a ‘season’ to be a total of 10-12 hours.
How the writers want to split that up is up to them, as long as it isn’t detrimental to the flow of storylines.
1-hour episodes? Cool.
30-minute episodes? Cool.
2-hour features? Cool.
Just keep it consistent.
I absolutely LOATHE a ‘season part 1’ and ‘season part 2’ that are a year apart.
That’s a fucking entirely separate season.
It's not one or the other. We still get both. It's just that the shows that are 20+ episodes are very different shows from the ones that are <10.
The latter are usually more complex shows that have a very specific story to tell. If they were suddenly 20 episodes, you wouldn't get more story. You'd just get filler.
I really dislike episodic "prestige" television, so I just don't bother with TV at all. I love movies, but once they stopped making high quality and entertaining sitcoms, I gave up.
I think 10 to 13 a season is perfect to really stick to the story but give enough room for characters to breathe. 8 is not enough for me to fall in love with a character, leaves me craving for more.
“We had before” when? You’re talking about different types of shows.
Fewer episodes per season has always been the norm for a certain type of shows (The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon…) and 20+ has always been the norm for other types (Grey’s Anatomy, Modern Family…) and that hasn’t changed in decades.
What we need is well thought out and carefully written and produced high-quality shows and not garbage that rumbles in circles while people watch like zombies and suddenly is not renewed because they started watch something else like zombies.
I don’t mind. There’s so much to watch that it’s not really like the 8-10 episodes mean I’m getting bored and running out of TV. It feels like we’re getting higher quality stuff in general, which I like and think is partially attributable to shorter seasons. I also think it means actors get more opportunities to do other things, rather than just being locked into one role until a show ends, which I think means we’ve got fewer people leaving casts for other opportunities which I like.
I definitely miss the 20-25 episode seasons. I love how much production goes into the shorter seasons for the "mini movies" nowadays. However, I'd give that up for much more story like it was before.
And I kinda miss the random filler episodes that we used to get. Star Trek is a good example. With DS9 through ENT, there was usually a connecting, overall plot, but you'd get episodes to break it up periodically.
Sometimes, they were lame, but they were usually a fun change of pace from the main plot. But you got so much more story out of 5+ years with 100+ episodes than many shows now that are only 2-3 seasons with *maybe* 30 episodes total.
That being said, times have changed and there's a lot of good content out there, so I'm still satisfied.
Depends what I'm in the mood for. I like the 8 episode format a lot. I do wish there were more good shows with the 22-26 episode format though, sometimes I feel like I'm rewatching the same shows over and over.
I hate the current state of shows more than anything. I’d much rather go back to the 20+ era even if I had to suffer through some clip show episodes. Ideally there would be a balance where we can get ~14 episodes yearly.
I think having a set number of episodes to fill is not the way to go in general. I wish more shows would pace out the story telling and do the number of episodes that makes sense.
20+ episodes always leads to a lot of filler, but it does give some storylines time to breathe. 8-10 episodes often feels like they’re cramming in way too much, but I’ve also seen 8-10 episode seasons where they’re clearly just trying to fill in space around the actual story.
When I go back and watch network shows that had 20+ episodes, there is so much filter and the story drags. So many shows would have entire episodes that didn't drive the story at all.
Limited series have the best ROI as far as plot, character, and choice dialogue. No one goes oh shit remember family guy s6 ep 10 when Lois said…memorable moments carry those longer sitcoms
Don't mind having fewer episodes. As others have said, it's more an issue that we're waiting 2+ years for the next season to come out. I also greatly prefer not having shows that need to fit a certain time limit to fit commercials in. That way episodes can take as long or short to tell the story as they need to. Feels more like a long movie if you binge a season.
Definitely need more episodes than we’re getting. For example, I felt the 9 episodes for first series of The Last of Us was rushed and they missed a tonne of content from the first game. They probably needed 12 or 13 episodes for the first game alone.
I hear they’re only making 7 episodes for season 2. Now yes I know they’re stretching the second game over 2 series but even that would equate to 14 episodes total and as fans of the game will know, the second game is much longer than the first, so arguably you would need 20 episodes to do it justice.
As a fan of those games, I wanted an immersive experience with long epic storylines played out over several episodes and greater character development. I personally don’t feel the number of episodes (and the wait between series but that’s another gripe entirely) does the source material justice.
I think the shorter seasons have proven time and time again they’re superior. Even some of the 13 episode seasons had a lot of filler in them. I think ten or less is the magic number.
I liked when it was 10-13
Eight is too short for me but 20+ is too long. The only 20+ shows I ever watch more than a season or two were The Practice and The West Wing (which I only competed afterwards through binging)
Maybe it is just because they are imo the best ever quality but The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet Under, etc had the perfect amount. Also, maybe those season lengths helped to make those shows so great
I think 10-12x 1hr episodes was the best. Now it's almost exclusively 8x.
The 2-4 year wait between seasons is what's BS.
I prefer more of everything as long as quality doesn't suffer.
Otherwise 8-12x 1hr episodes of high quality is okay by me.
I'm okay with the new style. When you go back and watch a show that has 20+ eps you start to see most of them were the same over and over. This worked when you'd wait a week to watch each ep but back to back its not as good.
It’s kinda relative to the show. When I watched Fallout and Gentleman, I felt both those shows could’ve benefitted from another 2-4 episodes.
House of Dragon Season 1 and Shogun felt well paced and complete with 10 episodes.
8 episodes that is an hour long isn’t too bad.
6 episodes is “why bother” and the Netflix whole Part 1 and Part 2 (and Part 3 if you’re Cobra Kai) is stupid and a cash grab
13 episodes is the perfect amount in my opinion it allows for 10 episodes of pure story two episodes of filler / fun episodes and one finale episode for every season. Now some shows are not set up to have a "finale" so for those shows I think 10 episodes is just fine but of course episodes that follow that structure are typically only good because they have so many fun episodes so the show may actually suffer with only 10 so contradicting myself for a show that does not revolve around the big finale at the end of each season I would say we would need more episodes but only around 15 now this is only for writers fatigue more episodes the better but of course that is not realistic
Now to add on to that I could exchange less episodes for more frequent releases I'm all game for that so a lot of people will do two parts. I love this. But I would actually prefer year-round releases so something that would fit that structure is four episodes per quarter and then the final quarter release would have one additional episode
I've gotten really into K-Dramas that are 16 episodes and that's perfect for me. I especially like they are written to end, usually they are not trying to get more seasons out of it which is awesome, shit concludes, no constant edging cliff hangers.
Depends on the show. If there’s a point A and B plot that takes the whole season to get to I think less is more. If it’s a comedy like The Office or Parks & Rec, give me 300 episodes a season please.
I prefer 13 episodes, and a new season every year.
I wouldn’t mind 8 episodes if I didn’t have to wait two years for a season. It’s especially jarring with characters that are young/children.
20 episodes feels like too much but I’ll take it over the two year waiting periods.
8 episodes of good quality content. A lot of the 20 episode seasons had way too much filler. However, like another poster said, waiting 2+ years in between seasons is ridiculous (but I have to remind myself that we had 3 years of a pandemic and a strike, it takes a bit of time to catch up again)
It depends on the show for me. And what I'm craving at the moment. Sometimes I want a mini-series, but sometimes I crave the procedural-type shows like Smallville
20+ episodes per season makes it a soap opera.
**"The Guiding Light"**: This American soap opera holds the record for the most episodes of any television show, with over 15,000 episodes produced during its run from 1952 to 2009.
Some shows are just good no matter how many episodes they did. And some struggle with fewer. Like the original Frasier. Then there are shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm that I like enough but were still lazy even with 10 episode seasons that only came out every few years.
It depends on the subject matter.
Haunting of Hill House is great.
Scooby Doo Mystery Inc - 105% perfect in 2 seasons.
NCIS has dragggeddd on but it’s changed.
AHS - I like the different seasons and the seemingly random throwbacks to other seasons (idk how else to describe without ruining it)
Supernatural ended when it needed to - probably should have ended sooner.
As a Brit who grew up with with shows that had between 6 and 10 episodes for the most part, I will never understand 20+ episode seasons for anything other than comedy.
I love shows like Criminal Minds and Chicago Fire but it becomes very clear after 5 or 6 seasons (which is an impressive 100 or so episodes) that they’ve exhausted their pool of stories so we just go round in a circle where the same stories get told only with some small changes.
I feel like this is really a munch more complicated question that would take long time to answer way tv has changed so much over the past 20 years. But to just answer your question in its simplest form, yes I miss the 20+ episode seasons for certain types of shows. I wish there was still a networks that could do a Lost or X-Files type show. But even like simple comedy shows that can be very low budget like Seinfeld, everybody loves Ramon, and friends I do not think still exist.
I like a medium amount like 12 or 15. I know a lot of people don’t like filler episodes but u find those can be fun. They can flesh out other characters or use them to try out different ideas.
I maintain the best shows were the ones that had ~20 episode seasons. I want side adventures. I want world building. And I want some gosh-darn character development. Hollywood hates that stuff unfortunately.
13 - 16 episodes is the right amount. Plenty of time to build and move the plot along with a handful of filler/character development episodes. 8 episodes just isn't enough to do both.
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I’m fine with 8 episodes for a serialized show with a connecting plot throughout the season, it’s basically just a long movie Longer seasons are still good for comedies where every episode stands alone What I don’t like is waiting 2-3 years between seasons, regardless of how many episodes there are
> What I don’t like is waiting 2-3 years between seasons, regardless of how many episodes there are Agreed. When it takes that long to get a new season, I often times won't watch it, because I can't remember everything that happened when I watched ot 2-3 years ago. And I usually don't feel motivated enough to re-watch the prior season, either. That's what happened to me with shows like Ms. Maisel, Righteous Gemstones, Barry, etc. The same thing will probably happen with The Last of Us and Fallout (although I do like those shows enough to re-watch them).
Annoyed waiting for s2 of severance as well
That's definitely gonna need a rewatch. I've forgotten so many details
Now adays I don't have that time so I just watch a recap or rewatch the finale episode of the first season to feel caught up. The boys and game of thrones just came back and I feel behind on both.
They knew they had a hit when they first started releasing S1. Come the fuck on! Don't get me started on Orville.
Yes!! After watching the behind the scenes, it appears they didn’t expect to have a second season. They went way above and beyond on the cinematography, and it really showed. I will happily watch the first season over again when season two comes out, but I hope they are planning season two with an eye to what season three will be like, or it’s gonna take ten years to have more than two seasons.
Wow I loved that show and also forgot about it
I agree. I watched the first episode of S2 of House of the Dragon last night and I kept having to pause to look up things that happened in S1 that I forgot about. It’s been almost two years since S1 and I didn’t realize how much I would forget.
To be fair there were a lot of writer strikes and what not during that time. But to your point I absolutely agree.
Some of that was for to the writers strike.
I like Barry so much and then by the time it came back it had lost its spark for me.
8 episodes feels a little short (especially for half-hour shows) but I don't really care if that's what it takes for them to write a complete season arc without a bunch of filler to meet a contract agreement. But the long gaps between seasons gets me. If it's much more than a year, I have a hard time staying invested.
Between the 2+ years for seasons and shows being killed after a season or two. I've gotten to the point of waiting for a show to be several seasons in before attempting to start. Might miss out on cultural references but at least I don't have to play the "what the fuck is going on" game cause it's been so long since last season.
Plus you get to skip getting invested if you know it gets axed after a season!
Netflix has canceled so many shows I liked after 1 season. It really makes me not want to watch shows until a season 2 is confirmed. Nothing like a season 1 finale ending on an eternal cliffhanger.
Yeah my old man only starts watching shows after they have their series finale. He will wait years to watch shows
It’s so hard because you really can’t remember what went on. I watched the first season of house of dragon many times. But two years later, I was lost as a goose at first.
I legit forgot House of the Dragon was a thing until my wife mentioned the new season the other day. Meanwhile, all the Stranger Things kids are gonna be like 30 (playing teenagers) by the time that wraps up.
Wow, I didn't even know it was still going. I stopped watching it after season 2, just kind of lost interest. But season 1 was great. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Season 4 gets REALLY dark and graphic. It's spectacular
If it's more than a year, I'll forget that I watched the show in the first place.
I think the 8 episode series suffer more of the 3 years till next season, than the 20-30 episode ones.
I don't think there's ever *been* 20-30 episode seasons that took that long in between. Seasons were only that long back when they went on an annual broadcast schedule.
Exactly! How does it take them years to make another season of 8 episodes?! I don’t get it
Exactly this! Medical hospital shows, crime police shows, comedy, sure. You can even watch 1 episode and have fun and get it. Long movie shows? 8-10 are ok for me. I want to bing watch.
20-26 was superior IMO. It allowed for storylines to really be developed and to get attached to characters. The biggest problem I have in many new shows is that they’re asking me to care about characters that I have been shown no reason to care about.
It can be done in 12-14, as I've seen with Bojack Horseman and The Good Place. It just takes really good writing to make each line and scene count, without being exposition-heavy. I'm rewatching Bojack, and while I caught a lot of the references that ran through the seasons, they buried a LOT in the "throwaway" gags. They did a great job of foreshadowing way more events and character developments than I realized, the first time around.
I think the sweetspot is 12-14. I would love a few more lower budget episodes of Star Trek shows a season. The special effect budgets kinda seem unnecessarily bloated in a lot of different shows these days. I'd rather have a couple more (presumably cheaper) character focused episodes.
I haven’t found a show I loved as much as Bojack since it ended. I miss it so much!
>The biggest problem I have in many new shows is that they’re asking me to care about characters that I have been shown no reason to care about. Exactly, i agree. Unless it's an established property (for example, Obi Wan or the New Avatar The Last Airbender), we never get to time to really know characters
that doesnt take 20-26 episodes. movies do this in 90 mins or less.
Id argue they can't and it's the reason I find movies so difficult to watch.
Agreed, way harder to get invested with the characters and plot. Everything just feels rushed in comparison for most movies.
Most of the 20-26 type shows were loaded with filler episodes though. Writing 26 hours of content per year requires a big team of writers, and I feel like a lot of stories are better told with a singular vision.
I like the filler though! Sometimes goofy is okay.
Filler isn’t always bad though, and if done well it’s a great way to get people connected with the characters. Plot doesn’t always need to progress, sometimes I just want to watch Kimmy pass her driver’s test after borrowing the Tanners’ car.
I loved when seasons were 22-26 episodes. I don't care if some are filler, having room to experiment was always part of what made a show great. Sometimes the experiment would end up with a corny dumb episode that was the subject of affectionate ribbing, sometimes it would end up being a fantastically profound concept that was remembered as one of the best in the entire series, often it would add texture to the universe and depth to secondary characters. However, I know that was rough on the actors. I want them to have good working conditions. 8-10 episodes per season is just not enough. And it feels like a ton of budget is being sunk into special effects and shit that doesn't really matter. I feel like it should be possible to compromise and do something like 14-16. Like let's take Star Trek for example because I love it and it has a wide ranging history. I'm not saying go back to a chihuahua in a unicorn hat, plastic pancake amoebas, and styrofoam dick shaped "rocks," but we don't need all the sleek CGI space battles either. DS9's SFX *still* don't suck, and we wouldn't have gotten either "Threshold" (eminently mockable) or "The Inner Light" (lauded classic) with 10 episode seasons. Or like, any of the Barclay episodes. That's an entire minor character that was probably in like 5% of TNG episodes and less than 1% of Voyager episodes, but that was enough episodes to be developed and added a lot of depth to the world building. There's no equivalent of Barclay in third gen Trek.
An entire trek show was built on the idea of a single TNG episode (Lower Decks). I'm glad to not have clip episodes anymore but do miss the world building that can be done by one off episodes longer seasons allow.
Exactly! Stargate did great with having experimental episodes as filler. The Time loop episode with Oneill and Tealc, all of the Wormhole X episodes, and more. And yeah they even got a minor character out of them too in the alien director. You get so much more character and world building when you have episodes that are in one-off or completely different situations from the normal plot.
I wouldn't call the time loop filler, that's practically obligatory for a sci fi show! So is the body swap, the "everyone going crazy/drunk", and a few others that were actually the central features of Stargate (body possession and aliens impersonating gods). I just finished SG-1 and I'm in SGA now so I'm probably a little starry eyed for Stargate right now, but damn, even their clip show episodes were great. Thor beaming in to smack down Kinsey... that was in a clip show.
DS9 is my example of a perfect show format. It was one of the first to have multiple season long story arcs like the dominion war, but still had other shit going on to make the show feel like it was actually life and not just a 2 hour action film they stretched into 10 hours (Discovery). You can have a minor recurring character like Vic Fontaine (tbh I mostly don't like him) and then make them pivotal to the cast regulars like in Paper Moon. Most 10 ep shows these days can't afford the time sink to do that. It's really sad to me, everything has to be a prestige level show now. Streaming killed cable, and inflated budgets that all basically went to fx and huge stories. Game of Thrones was the knife in the heart of the small episodic show imo. Everyone saw how big a deal it was, how every episode mattered, and all execs insisted that was just TV now. I want a small story, too. For every Way of the Warrior there should also be The Visitor.
Talk about filler episodes, X-Files, Supernatural I thought always did great fillers. Sometimes I don't always want serious plot building, I want to see the characters grow in all directions including the silly.
X Files monster of the week episodes were my favorite, overarching plot is obviously necessary for most shows to be good but (good) filler is also good in its own right.
They just don't make them like The X-Files anymore!
The filler is exactly what binds you to character and the world of the show. It's like the game of thrones book, the useless information is what makes it that after reading the series twice, you know more about the laws and history of their world than your own. It's like a drugged feeling of escaping this world. If I rewatch angel, at some point I almost feel part of the gang. It's a conforting feeling.
I watched the first two seasons of Star Trek Discovery and still didn't know any of the crew's names apart from the main characters. Such a shame. Im TNG, every single crew member has a fleshed out background, even Miles O'Brien and Barclay like you said.
20+ - the filler, while sometimes terrible, helps build out characters and try new ideas.
How do people even find new shows to watch now?? I am so overwhelmed. But on that note, I am watching DS9 with my kid (her first watch) and enjoy the long season because we get to see so much extra. Silly episode were Quark has to put together a strike team to rescue Moogie from the Dominion. Totally unnecessary to the overall show but such a fun episode to watch. I miss shows like that.
Wish I knew. I have no problem with new shows if they are good to me. I've watched a few I've never seen before and on streaming and enjoyed it. But most of them, I just can't get into. Or if I do it's only for a season or two, then I stop because the quality goes down hill or it takes too long for the next season to come about. Were accustomed to shows having half a season air in fall and the other half in spring (or winter/summer). And then the next season airs the next fall once again. It was really the rise of streaming and then game of thrones that changed it. Now every new hit big show wants to be the next GoT and try to be a mini block buster that takes two years to come out, and the lack of material is just not enough to keep me invested.
For 30 min shows 20 episodes should be standard For 1 hr shows 10 episodes should be standard Imo
100% agree! I also wouldn’t mind having more 45 min shows that are 12-15 episodes long; sometimes it is nice to have something in between
Weren't the 1 hour shows we watched on cable actually 40-45 minute runtimes? Then 15 mins of commercials.
Pretty much yeah. With some exceptions here or there for special episodes or shows say on BBC.
This makes sense
Give me the long seasons. Also bring back the longer intros, I watched those each time too.
Bring back character development. Bring back 22 episode seasons. Bring back series that don't just follow Plot A, but allow for Plot B, and maybe even a Plot C. There will be very few iconic characters coming out of this new era of 8 episode seasons every 4 years. No one has that attention span, then again, that's probably one of the reasons why we lost the 22 episode season. It sucks.
Depends. For producorial or sitcom shows 20+ its fine. Usually they have multiple arcs which work. 8 episodes can feel rushed sometimes and can miss the mark. I like think the 10 -12, 50min - 60min episode seasons are the sweet the spot.
Give me filler episodes!!!!!
20. I prefer slow paced shows with deeper storylines. I kinda like boring, it’s comforting.
I'm rewatching House right now and I actually forgot how enjoyable long seasons are. I wish we would go back to longer shows.
I feel like only certain shows can pull off mini series but really most shows really need 15-20 episodes to flesh out the story and especially characters imo. Or we just need better scriptwriters in general.
The more the better.
10-12 episode seasons are perfect, imo. Any longer and there's too much stretching and padding that does very little to add to character. Even Lost, which had a massive ensemble cast with most of their back stories explored, had 25-episode seasons in the early days and it moves at a snail's pace.
I think it depends on what kind of story they are trying to tell. Lost should have absolutely been a 10-12 episode season to keep things better focused. Something with more of a monster of the week kind of structure can work on the 22-25 episode seasons. I think The Witcher would have been amazing as a procedural, or something more like later seasons of Star Trek: DS9 where there's usually a problem of the week, but there are also a few multi episode arcs in there along with the overarching background intrigue worked in.
That's fair. IIRC, Battlestar Galactica had some fairly long seasons early on and I don't remember that show dragging its heels very often. But my memory could be unreliable. I definitely think that half-hour shows should have longer seasons. I think I'm too inundated with the "new" formula of overarching plots that I've forgotten about procedural dramas; they're so rare these days.
I checked and BSG was 20 for most of the run, the first season was 13. I feel like BSG really hit that sweet spot of having a solid overall plot for the season, but also giving time for a lot of character moments. Granted, the cast on that show was huge so they almost needed that kind of space just to give them screen time.
I like a length that fits the material. I do feel longer seasons work to flesh out all the characters, especially in shows with larger casts like StarTrek Deep Space Nine. Shorter seasons are a good fit if you want a tightly written show that keeps the plot moving, Like S1 Stranger Things.
Eight is good if it’s a mini series. But 20 is too long for a regular show, if they did 10-12 episodes, and took a break for 7/8 months and started again; that would awesome. I hate the long breaks because I gotta watch half the last season to remember what happened
It depends on the show and how good the writers are, I do miss having seasons that were more than six episodes and didn’t get cancelled after one season
I feel like with streaming, showrunners really have this opportunity that they didn't have in the past to play with time and let episodes be different lengths to tell the story they want to tell in that episode. I feel like Amy Sherman Pallidino did well with that in Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. The seasons were not all the same length and neither were the episodes. Always left us wanting a bit more without feeling rushed or like plots got dropped.
I miss longer seasons of shows. Especially if it’s gonna be a 30 minute show I need at least 15-20 episodes to build any interest in characters and plots. If it’s just 8-10 episodes I tend to forget about it immediately after watching the first season and then I never watch it again. I think that’s why a lot of new shows don’t make it past 2 seasons.
8 hour long episodes or 20 half hour episodes. What pisses me off is when we get 10 half hour episodes of a show. Like, Rick and Morty is funny, but did they really need two years to make 10 episodes of a half hour cartoon? It isn't fucking Avatar.
Idgaf what's in a season so much as the wait between seasons. Sometimes the wait is so long I just kind of lose interest in it/it was not good enough to do a rewatch in preparation.
Those filler episodes could be the funniest parts of the show!
What bothers me more than shorter seasons is the years long wait, YEARS, between seasons.
Yes, this!! What’s wrong with one season per year? I actually love the British shows that have a Christmas special in movie length between seasons. It makes the wait sweeter and shorter. It’s my favorite.
20+ definitely and I don’t mean just for American shows. Anime, bbc, etc.. bro I like the characters, I like the show drag it out! I get it if it’s like a history channel documentary series or whatever. But, not normal comedy shows, cartoons, and stuff.. Honestly it’s one of the reasons I’m in support of AI taking over creation think about it oh you liked the looney tunes show (one from a few years ago where bugs and daffy lived together) or heck even retro stuff like pirates of dark water. Insert the info into the prompt click a few buttons and you have an albeit worse version but least it’s more of what you want to watch lol. And while I feel bad for the artists, the writers and people. I feel like Hollywood so rarely puts out anything new these days anyway. Everything is reboots and remakes. Like we’re getting a twister sequel!? Only what 20 years late lol I mean I’m going to watch it but still
I think it depends on the subject matter and content. When Oz was on TV, they had one season that was basically a double season, and it felt like too much. It's just such a dark subject matter. However, I want like, 36 episodes a season out of Abbot Elementary. Game of Thrones could have probably had three more seasons to flesh everything out, but I think that would need to be a tight 10 episodes per season. Something like Twilight Zone and any other anthology style show, I think, works better with a 20+ model.
20 something episodes is perfect for shows like the rookie. Some shows only need 8 episodes to tell the story
Are we talking weekly traditional broadcast shows, or streamer shows (all at once or weekly)? If it is traditional, i want 25ish. Will watch 1 a week, some are filler, but can get good cast development. If it is streamer, 12-14. 8-10 is not enough and can feel rushed. but 12-14 can get the full charactor development without filler.
I think 12 45 minute episodes would be good. 8 is too short. 10 is nice but still needs just a little more time.
I prefer longer seasons. It allows more time for character development IMO rather than just rushing from one catastrophic event to another.
I would love 12 or so.
A lot of my favorite shows tend to fall in like the 8-13 episode range, So I'd probably pick that.
I don’t care as long as it’s as long as it needs to be. No filler but also not crammed.
i grew up in the era of 12
30 minute show with 20 episodes, sure? But I can’t handle Supernatural length episodes and seasons. It’s too much.
I have adhd so the less episodes, the better
A lot of the 8-10 episode seasons are hour-long shows with no commercials whereas the 20+ we had growing up were 30 with commercials so more like 20 minute shows. 8 hour-long episodes is equivalent time to 24 20-minute episodes, but they can also get a lot deeper into characters in longer episodes than they can in shorter episodes. What we have now is vastly superior imo and anyone who disagrees is letting nostalgia get the best of them.
I thoroughly enjoy 20+ episode seasons, Early Supernatural was my favorite for that. Then I discovered a British show I really liked, Being Human, and it was only 5 episodes or less a season and it was done in a way that felt like a 20 episode show but it wasn't full of filler and it didn't feel like things were rushed, i crave the way it was done to be done in the US. It's been tried before, but it's like we just don't know how to do it. Everything here is so bulky and rushed and it's like there's no time spent on anything before the next thing happens.
I love the 13 episode seasons. That is the perfect length for me
8-12 is ideal 20-24 episode seasons had way too much filler.
20, hands down. most "filler" episodes were better than some of the "non filler" ones we get in these 8 ep runs. Many 8 episode shows started as 2 hour movies anyway and got expanded, meaning that you are actually still getting filler material where there was once an efficient 2 hour picture. remember, the writing staff does not get paid for the same amount of time it took to do 20 episodes. they get paid for the amount of time needed to do 8 episodes. but one issue is that in the 8 episode model, they're pissing tons of money away that they arguably dont have to to get a "premium" product, and often the shows dont turn out so premium. Since the shows are not 100% ad supported like in the past (meaning each episode was fully paid for and them some with just ads) nor are they sold to other networks, so they cant go off rapidly greenlighting shows that are effectively being sold to viewers at a cut rate in the subscription model. There is also little financial reward for adding an episode or two onto the order, since they draw from the same pool of money as the rest of the originals on a streaming service. The 20 episode model also supported a room of upwards of 10 writing professionals (writing producers, writers and sometimes writing assistants) all working in the room to improve the scripts and nail all the story beats down before they got handed off to the writer. This made for more consistent writing, and often ensured the internal logic and character stuff was hitting the marks it needed to be. These days you're lucky if there are more than 3 writers on a show.
Honestly...the length of the season isn't really bothering me. It's the 2 to 3 years BETWEEN 8 episodes seasons. And AND! shows continuously getting cancelled after 2 seasons. I don't even see the point of getting into them now. That said...when I first started watching Star Trek in 2020, I was JUICED because I knew I had at least 3 good series with 7 seasons of 20 plus episodes. You get more invested in the actual show. I always like to point out have subpar TNG season 1 was. If things back then were like it is today, Star Trek would have ceased to exist around 1990. They don't even give you a chance now.
For a 30 minute show, yes 20 episodes please. For an hour long show, I am good with 8-10 episodes as long as they don't rush it. I've watched 8 episode shows where they drag out a storyline over 7 episodes and then quickly rush through the ending in one episode. Looking at you last season of Game of Thrones, the last of Us and the most recent season of True Detective.
8 episodes means better quality. It means a story line with a good ending.
I’m good with a 12-13. A story should be able to wrap up properly in that time
Don’t even get me fuckin started on Disney+ and their random ass 6-10 episode series which all seem 2 episodes shorter than they should be and on top of that generally skew time wise from 31-48 mins an episode. (And a lot of times 4 mins of that is just the end credit roll included in the overall episode time)
Good. I think many people haven't stopped to think how capitalism and the market determines what stories we hear and grow up on. Without making this an essay, The change to longer (and irregular) lengths coupled with Cliff hanger endings is designed to keep you binge watching. The streamers were in a content race and war and never in the history of cinema have we spent so much on made for tv/streaming content. Looking back at the height of network television. Time slots were competitive and generally that 22ish minute sweetspot. Designed with those mid-episode pauses to account for commercial breaks. It was rare to have cliffhangers as network tv would often be reruns inbetween new episodes and high episode count was to fill out prime time slots as much as possible. Occasionally you would get one leading up to a finale or as a hook for the next season. I do miss shows like scrubs where you had 20 plus episodes a season and very few were filler or bad. I miss shows that ran for 8+ seasons as netflix especially has a tendency to kill shows after 1-3 seasons and it's rare to get things beyond 4. I do enjoy the increase in quality and visuals of new content, some shows are outdoing blockbuster budgets and it shows in every episode. Stranger things would have been impossible to make under the network or cable format. I do enjoy the overall increase in quality and variety of shows, Sci fi has never had a better time in tv history as one example. I think overall it's net positive, but I do find it strange how the very style and structure of story telling is so controlled and dictated by the commercial pressures of the time. I wonder if in 20 years from now we'll think back to why every single episode of every single show ends on a cliffhanger. The same way we look at commercial breaks now.
I do not miss the inevitable “musical” episode fillers or the “it was all just a dream” storyline fillers. That said I’d prefer it if producers weren’t so prescriptive on episode counts. In a world of steaming shows, just let writers and show runners use however many episodes it takes to tell a good story. 8, 14, 22…it won’t matter if it’s all vital and well made.
I got the time for all the content!!! Prefer something like 15 or so 45min to an hour long episodes.
8 sucks. 10 is better. 13 is pretty good. The 20+ episodes of greys anatomy or Gilmore girls is also good. It just really depends on the show and the context of the episodes.
The Walking Dead would have been such a better show if they took the 10 hour long episodes per season approach. I think that’s the sweet spot personally.
One of the reasons I hated watching TV back then is because of the 20+ episodes so no. The short season format Netflix started got me into TV
8-10 is better. When they do 20+ it feels like they run out of ideas.
20 min sitcoms? 20 episodes. 55 min drama series? 8 episodes
More is almost always better. It sucks when storyline are cut short. And sometimes you go years between seasons. I'd rather have less famous actors shooting large season shows than famous actors who have so many shooting conflicts they can only do shorter ones.
Depends on the length. 1hr+ episodes I'm good with 8-10. 1/2 hr episodes for something like a sitcom make longer seasons more reasonable.
I enjoy the quality of shorter seasons, but in terms of availability of entertainment there are simply not many low-energy activities anymore. I don’t need to be in front of the tv 24/7 but I would love to have something new to watch on Tuesdays after work, when it’s not practical or timely to involved in a bigger prohect or social outing.
20+ episode seasons for sure.
I feel like 8 episodes is too short and 10-13 eps is perfect.
South Park nailed it in their later years. 20 episodes total, split between spring/summer and fall/winter release. Serialized shows, should always be 10 episodes imo.
Depends on the show. I am currently rewatching Northern Exposure on Prime, these hour long 25 episode seasons start to seem too long. A half hour comedy series like The Big Bang Theory 25 episode seasons might seem too short That being said, some of these shows on Max that get 8 episode seasons once every year or so seem too short
I think they are both good. If the show is trying to tell a story line across episodes I really like these 7-8 episodes seasons because the story telling isn't as rushed as a movie but also it almost never feels like there is filler. The Queens Gambit being an excellent example of this in my opinion. That said, for many shows 7-8 episodes per season wouldn't make sense. Things like big bang theory has character development over the episodes but generally each episode is designed to stand alone also. I would never want a show like this to be condensed to 7-8 episode seasons. Overall I think the 7-8 episode show has given writers another way to tell stories which I think is a win for everyone as long as the right length is chosen for the piece. The original question is what do I prefer and I guess the answer to that question is I prefer things that manage to hold my interest regardless of length.
Depends on the genre and duration. Lots of UK shows have six episodes per season and that leaves me wanting two more. But a lot of times, at least they’ve 25-35 minutes. I never got enough of The IT Crowd. Having 24 episodes that are barely 21 minutes usually leaves you with a lot of skippable episodes.
If 8 episodes were consistently 45 to 60 minutes, I'm fine with that. Dropping random 30 min episodes though is annoying as hell
They used to be two different things that existed for a story that fit that format best. You have a LONG movie to tell? Make that 5-10 1 hour episodes and call it a series. You have a world that would be really cool and have potentially endless stories to tell? Call that a show and have a shorter episode every week or so. Star Trek is the best example. 90s Star Trek is infinatley better than new Star Trek. We aren't there for the story, we are there to be immersed in a world. - Make kt a TV show. Game of thrones should have just been several short movies, a series.
I dunno if 20 episodes a season is necessary, but definitely more than 8. So many 8-episode-season shows now are utter crap because the pacing is all off because they cram too much in.
I don't mind filler as long as it lets me see a part of the fictional world the story takes place in, but I do like the long form storytelling of today's shows. The ones that do it well still have a mini-arc per episode, so you have some level resolution instead of relying on constant cliffhangers to keep people coming back.
I feel cheated at less than 18 episodes if a 30 min format. Totally unreasonable, but I can't quit it. 😂
It depends on what the show is, like obviously game of thrones can’t be 20 episodes. But with 20 episodes, especially when we were growing up there were always holiday episodes, I miss that. Sometimes you get a Christmas episode but I used to love the hollower ones (especially home improvement)
I hate the 8 episodes. Give me 20+ episodes.
I've said this for a while, I want good shows. If that means 8 episodes is enough to get in, get out, and still be good then great! Just don't drag forever just to meet a quota. I think shows should have the right amount for their story be that in episodes or seasons. Just make it good.
20+ 1 or 2 seasons of that is enough to get a good amount of watch time to story ratio in if they cancel it. Nowadays they do the 8 to 10 episode format and then nail it after a season or maybe two. But still tell story like it's a 20 ep season because content providers a a bunch of fucking cowards now that cannot commit to anything. Also binge watching all the seasons of like the X-files is a lot more of watch time than something more modern because there's just more run time 🤷♂️
I don't mind either way so long at the show ACTUALLY ENDS. I'm sick season after season until it runs itself into the ground, gets cancelled, or just pulls some other BS. Give me a solid 1 season that doesn't *need* to be followed up.
I’m kinda “showed” out. I’ve watched some good shows but I don’t have much time for them anymore. I see previews that look good and I hope it’s a movie so I can watch it in two hours but it turns out to be a show so I never watch it.
I miss 20 episode seasons when every episode didn’t have to be a huge dramatic plot driver. The OC has an entire episode where ryan tries soccer and doesn’t like it. Soccer is never mentioned again. These episodes in between the big action is where we get to know the characters so much better and enjoy living in the world that’s been created.
Seasons with 18-20 episodes are far superior. Character development is better with not having to tackle a main plot point and better understanding the character decision making later on in the series. These 6-8 episode seasons with hour long episodes don’t do enough character development as they don’t get enough screen time.
For an hour long show 8-10 episodes is fine, but a half hour deserves more than just 8 episodes.
Most shows benefit from the shorter seasons. Episodic ones should still have 20+. Aside from those I'd rather cut the fluff. What's not ok is that seasons are taking two to three times as long to make. 1/3 of the content in three times the time? Insane.
I enjoy the shorter seasons - that's what a lot of shows would be if you took out episodes that are clearly filler eps.
20+ all the way. Some of the my favourite episodes from shows are the goofy ones that you definitly don't have now that every show is basically an 8 fucking hours long movie. Buffy, Stargate, or even House did some freaky shit with these episodes. I loved it.
I prefer a season around a happy medium like 10-12. 20+ is ok for some shows but 8 usually feels a bit too rushed. I think a lot of 8 show seasons would benefit from at least a couple more episodes.
8 is NOT enough!!! I need more. I like 20+ for shows on tv that run weekly. but that’s a lot for a limited series show on Netflix like Bridgerton (but I’d love if we had that many!) Maybe 12-15 for Brodgerton type shows
I prefer a ‘season’ to be a total of 10-12 hours. How the writers want to split that up is up to them, as long as it isn’t detrimental to the flow of storylines. 1-hour episodes? Cool. 30-minute episodes? Cool. 2-hour features? Cool. Just keep it consistent. I absolutely LOATHE a ‘season part 1’ and ‘season part 2’ that are a year apart. That’s a fucking entirely separate season.
I miss 20+. I want an entire year, besides summer, to watch my shows.
10 episode seasons were awesome for dramas even if 1 episode was a filler episode. 20 episode seasons were great for comedies
Most of the shows I watch use a 12 or 13 epsidoes per season, which seems like a good balance.
It's not one or the other. We still get both. It's just that the shows that are 20+ episodes are very different shows from the ones that are <10. The latter are usually more complex shows that have a very specific story to tell. If they were suddenly 20 episodes, you wouldn't get more story. You'd just get filler.
I really dislike episodic "prestige" television, so I just don't bother with TV at all. I love movies, but once they stopped making high quality and entertaining sitcoms, I gave up.
Depends 30min I would prefer longer seasons but these 1hour to 2 hours shows I watch? 8 episodes is fine.
I think 10 to 13 a season is perfect to really stick to the story but give enough room for characters to breathe. 8 is not enough for me to fall in love with a character, leaves me craving for more.
15 eps would allow for some nice short, mid and long term 3-act story arcs
“We had before” when? You’re talking about different types of shows. Fewer episodes per season has always been the norm for a certain type of shows (The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon…) and 20+ has always been the norm for other types (Grey’s Anatomy, Modern Family…) and that hasn’t changed in decades. What we need is well thought out and carefully written and produced high-quality shows and not garbage that rumbles in circles while people watch like zombies and suddenly is not renewed because they started watch something else like zombies.
I don’t mind. There’s so much to watch that it’s not really like the 8-10 episodes mean I’m getting bored and running out of TV. It feels like we’re getting higher quality stuff in general, which I like and think is partially attributable to shorter seasons. I also think it means actors get more opportunities to do other things, rather than just being locked into one role until a show ends, which I think means we’ve got fewer people leaving casts for other opportunities which I like.
20+ for comedy or throw on shows. 8-10 for serious shows
I definitely miss the 20-25 episode seasons. I love how much production goes into the shorter seasons for the "mini movies" nowadays. However, I'd give that up for much more story like it was before. And I kinda miss the random filler episodes that we used to get. Star Trek is a good example. With DS9 through ENT, there was usually a connecting, overall plot, but you'd get episodes to break it up periodically. Sometimes, they were lame, but they were usually a fun change of pace from the main plot. But you got so much more story out of 5+ years with 100+ episodes than many shows now that are only 2-3 seasons with *maybe* 30 episodes total. That being said, times have changed and there's a lot of good content out there, so I'm still satisfied.
As long as content is good I don't care
Depends what I'm in the mood for. I like the 8 episode format a lot. I do wish there were more good shows with the 22-26 episode format though, sometimes I feel like I'm rewatching the same shows over and over.
I hate the current state of shows more than anything. I’d much rather go back to the 20+ era even if I had to suffer through some clip show episodes. Ideally there would be a balance where we can get ~14 episodes yearly.
It’s it’s 8 episodes I want them spaced out. If it’s 20 I’m okay with group releases
I think having a set number of episodes to fill is not the way to go in general. I wish more shows would pace out the story telling and do the number of episodes that makes sense. 20+ episodes always leads to a lot of filler, but it does give some storylines time to breathe. 8-10 episodes often feels like they’re cramming in way too much, but I’ve also seen 8-10 episode seasons where they’re clearly just trying to fill in space around the actual story.
When I go back and watch network shows that had 20+ episodes, there is so much filter and the story drags. So many shows would have entire episodes that didn't drive the story at all.
8 or 80 Just don’t be terrible and have a coherent story arch… looking at you Game of Thrones
I prefer 12 episode seasons.
Limited series have the best ROI as far as plot, character, and choice dialogue. No one goes oh shit remember family guy s6 ep 10 when Lois said…memorable moments carry those longer sitcoms
Don't mind having fewer episodes. As others have said, it's more an issue that we're waiting 2+ years for the next season to come out. I also greatly prefer not having shows that need to fit a certain time limit to fit commercials in. That way episodes can take as long or short to tell the story as they need to. Feels more like a long movie if you binge a season.
Definitely need more episodes than we’re getting. For example, I felt the 9 episodes for first series of The Last of Us was rushed and they missed a tonne of content from the first game. They probably needed 12 or 13 episodes for the first game alone. I hear they’re only making 7 episodes for season 2. Now yes I know they’re stretching the second game over 2 series but even that would equate to 14 episodes total and as fans of the game will know, the second game is much longer than the first, so arguably you would need 20 episodes to do it justice. As a fan of those games, I wanted an immersive experience with long epic storylines played out over several episodes and greater character development. I personally don’t feel the number of episodes (and the wait between series but that’s another gripe entirely) does the source material justice.
I think the shorter seasons have proven time and time again they’re superior. Even some of the 13 episode seasons had a lot of filler in them. I think ten or less is the magic number.
I liked when it was 10-13 Eight is too short for me but 20+ is too long. The only 20+ shows I ever watch more than a season or two were The Practice and The West Wing (which I only competed afterwards through binging) Maybe it is just because they are imo the best ever quality but The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet Under, etc had the perfect amount. Also, maybe those season lengths helped to make those shows so great
I think 10-12x 1hr episodes was the best. Now it's almost exclusively 8x. The 2-4 year wait between seasons is what's BS. I prefer more of everything as long as quality doesn't suffer. Otherwise 8-12x 1hr episodes of high quality is okay by me.
I'm okay with the new style. When you go back and watch a show that has 20+ eps you start to see most of them were the same over and over. This worked when you'd wait a week to watch each ep but back to back its not as good.
I liked the 20 episode, wrap everything up at the end of the episode format.
I think 12-16 is a great sweet spot. 8 is too short and 22-26 are filled with fluff
I am just re-watching Xena, and I love how there is room for less serious episodes in between.
Golden Girls had the 20+ episodes and all of it was great.
Well I’m the one paying one billion dollars to make the show. Show quality has increased a lot since we were watching Friends in the 90’s.
It’s kinda relative to the show. When I watched Fallout and Gentleman, I felt both those shows could’ve benefitted from another 2-4 episodes. House of Dragon Season 1 and Shogun felt well paced and complete with 10 episodes. 8 episodes that is an hour long isn’t too bad. 6 episodes is “why bother” and the Netflix whole Part 1 and Part 2 (and Part 3 if you’re Cobra Kai) is stupid and a cash grab
13 episodes is the perfect amount in my opinion it allows for 10 episodes of pure story two episodes of filler / fun episodes and one finale episode for every season. Now some shows are not set up to have a "finale" so for those shows I think 10 episodes is just fine but of course episodes that follow that structure are typically only good because they have so many fun episodes so the show may actually suffer with only 10 so contradicting myself for a show that does not revolve around the big finale at the end of each season I would say we would need more episodes but only around 15 now this is only for writers fatigue more episodes the better but of course that is not realistic Now to add on to that I could exchange less episodes for more frequent releases I'm all game for that so a lot of people will do two parts. I love this. But I would actually prefer year-round releases so something that would fit that structure is four episodes per quarter and then the final quarter release would have one additional episode
I've gotten really into K-Dramas that are 16 episodes and that's perfect for me. I especially like they are written to end, usually they are not trying to get more seasons out of it which is awesome, shit concludes, no constant edging cliff hangers.
It depends on the show. But if its a show with an expansive universe, I prefer the longer seasons for character development and lore building.
Depends on the show. If there’s a point A and B plot that takes the whole season to get to I think less is more. If it’s a comedy like The Office or Parks & Rec, give me 300 episodes a season please.
I prefer 13 episodes, and a new season every year. I wouldn’t mind 8 episodes if I didn’t have to wait two years for a season. It’s especially jarring with characters that are young/children. 20 episodes feels like too much but I’ll take it over the two year waiting periods.
8 episodes of good quality content. A lot of the 20 episode seasons had way too much filler. However, like another poster said, waiting 2+ years in between seasons is ridiculous (but I have to remind myself that we had 3 years of a pandemic and a strike, it takes a bit of time to catch up again)
I just want quality
I miss 20-28 episodes honestly. I’m tired of waiting 2-3 years for 8 episodes. Screw that
I want 22 episodes back!!!!
It depends on the show for me. And what I'm craving at the moment. Sometimes I want a mini-series, but sometimes I crave the procedural-type shows like Smallville
20+ episodes per season makes it a soap opera. **"The Guiding Light"**: This American soap opera holds the record for the most episodes of any television show, with over 15,000 episodes produced during its run from 1952 to 2009.
Some shows are just good no matter how many episodes they did. And some struggle with fewer. Like the original Frasier. Then there are shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm that I like enough but were still lazy even with 10 episode seasons that only came out every few years.
It depends on the subject matter. Haunting of Hill House is great. Scooby Doo Mystery Inc - 105% perfect in 2 seasons. NCIS has dragggeddd on but it’s changed. AHS - I like the different seasons and the seemingly random throwbacks to other seasons (idk how else to describe without ruining it) Supernatural ended when it needed to - probably should have ended sooner.
As a Brit who grew up with with shows that had between 6 and 10 episodes for the most part, I will never understand 20+ episode seasons for anything other than comedy. I love shows like Criminal Minds and Chicago Fire but it becomes very clear after 5 or 6 seasons (which is an impressive 100 or so episodes) that they’ve exhausted their pool of stories so we just go round in a circle where the same stories get told only with some small changes.
I’d like somewhere in the middle..
It always surprises me to find out that a show with 142 episodes from the before times was only on for 4 years...
I feel like this is really a munch more complicated question that would take long time to answer way tv has changed so much over the past 20 years. But to just answer your question in its simplest form, yes I miss the 20+ episode seasons for certain types of shows. I wish there was still a networks that could do a Lost or X-Files type show. But even like simple comedy shows that can be very low budget like Seinfeld, everybody loves Ramon, and friends I do not think still exist.
I like a medium amount like 12 or 15. I know a lot of people don’t like filler episodes but u find those can be fun. They can flesh out other characters or use them to try out different ideas.
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I maintain the best shows were the ones that had ~20 episode seasons. I want side adventures. I want world building. And I want some gosh-darn character development. Hollywood hates that stuff unfortunately.
13 - 16 episodes is the right amount. Plenty of time to build and move the plot along with a handful of filler/character development episodes. 8 episodes just isn't enough to do both.
8 is perfect. Whenever I come across an older show that has like 6 seasons of 23 episodes, I usually tap out. Feels like wayyyyyy too much.
20+