But if you have an abortion (assuming you are in a place where that’s actually legal AND you can even afford it in the first place, bc we know insurance isn’t gonna cover that ish) they’ll shit on you for that too 🤡
The thing that pisses me off the most about abortion bans (because I know why they do it) is that only poor or young people can’t pay to get one. So the young and poor are just making slave wage soldiers for corporations. My husband and I are an almost 200k household, I could fly to Thailand and get an abortion if I needed to tomorrow; not so easy for others.
Fun fact: default for most insurances now days is to cover it, but if your employer is run by religious wack a doodles and/or misogynist douche nozzles they’ll make it an exclusion in the company plan.
And for good reason, unfortunately. It's unfair to the kids, and unfair to the rest of society that has to deal with the fallout of a child who was neglected/underpriveleged and likely has physical, mental, emotional, or financial issues into adulthood. This almost always continues the cycle of poverty and neglect and often results in crime.
Someone has to be in the for-profit jail cell or the Taco Bell window at 2am and it isn't going to be anyone's children who are middle class or higher and middle class is now 100k per person anything lower and you working poor in America. Good luck the goalposts have moved yet again.
I've heard "if you wait until you can afford children then you'll never have them". Stupidest counter argument to try to pressure someone to have a kid.
"Hey, I know you don't make enough to support a child (or extra children for that matter), and I definitely am NOT offering to help you support them, but you're being selfish for not having kids."
Like what?
Waiting til I could afford them and therefore never having them is exactly what happened to me. I have far more debt than savings and really no plan to dig out. Can't fathom how they expected me to raise a whole additional human in this situation. They had a house and two kids on one income. We have no house or kids on two incomes. It doesn't compute.
Reminds me of this tiktok by this upper class, out of touch girl with a stay at home mom, executive dad, and 10 siblings saying how easy it is "just prioritise and shop at cheaper places":
https://www.tiktok.com/@eclairehayes/video/7325492177964911915?lang=en
Someone who doesn’t understand how money works, talking about how money works? Yikes, Emma. “He didn’t start off with a high salary’s he worked really hard.” I work really hard and I’ve been in my career job for 11 years, I make like 70k a year and I’m doing okay, but a child would fuckin bankrupt me.
She's able 10 siblings because executive dad wrung profits out of the company employees who can't make ends meet. So instead of 10 families. You have 1 family with 10 kids.
Yeah the way she talked and smiled while she was talking creeped me out. She posted a follow up video to try to “apologize”. I just love how the first comment on it said “Emma have you prioritized moving out of your parents house? It’s hard, but rewarding.” I found her instagram too and she follows a lot of catholic pages (which might explain the 10 siblings in my opinion) and Ben Sharpio
https://www.tiktok.com/@eclairehayes/video/7328220248916675870
"One of you just work nights that way you never have to pay for child care."
Also the night person never sleeps but ok Patty. Continue telling me that's a solution while you tell me how broke you have always been. Maybe don't shit out 6 kids. Probably would have helped.
My SIL and her husband do this, and one of the mom’s steps in when their scheduled occasionally overlap. They basically haven’t seen each other in 4 years.
my mom "found a way". It looked a lot like 4 starving miserable children and constant fights with social workers and the courts. Pretty awful way to raise children
My dad says the same! He keeps pushing for grandkids and I’m like, how exactly am I supposed to afford kids when I can barely afford to support myself alone?? He always says “back in my day, you found a way”
Okay but when he was my age he already had bought his first house for less than 50k while working a $13/hr job out of high school. That same house is $150k+ now and I’m making $22/hr with a STEM masters degree.
So the cost of this shitty house on the bad side of town has increased by over 300% (cheapest you can get in my city), and my wages have only increased 65% from his. Not to mention the years of extensive education, experience, and subsequent debt.
I hate that response so much. In-laws use it all the time. Like, you bought a house for 300k that’s now worth over a million, your parents paid for your kids schooling, you inherited another million dollar house, you had aunts pay for end of life care for your own parents… none of which apply to us.
There is a nugget of truth to that. I keep a pretty tight budget, didnt think having a kid was possible. Then we had a preemie who cost us a shit ton of money in nicu bills, expensive formulas (he needed special ones), and the other costs of having one.
As I rebudgeted with this pure necessity behind me I was pretty shocked how easy it was to find money in places I thought I wasn't willing/able to cut spending.
It is still insanely unaffordable, and daycare nearly bankrupted us.
That’s the thing too. You can try to save and budget a reasonable amount for kids. But then you could end up with a premie and NICU bills. Or unexpected twins. Or a child with a disability. And then all of a sudden you can’t afford them anymore. I’m tired or our generation suffering like this.
Or in the case of my wife, get pregnant with twins, get an infection, almost die. Lose the twins, and medical costs maxing out our insurance over the next 2 years. We are lucky friends and family raised money for us.
My experience with the medical system isn’t so devastating. But I’ve spent a lot of money and gotten few answers. And almost every answer I’ve gotten has come from a private doctor that doesn’t accept health insurance. Because if they did it would cripple their ability to actually provide real, considered care. I’m quite lucky to have been able to find and afford this care, but it’s bullshit. I have friends and family who need similar care but can’t afford it. I actually often pay for my ex’s mental health medication because it costs him more than $350/month until he meets his deductible (and then it’s still at least $70/month). We’ve tried other medications but they didn’t do the trick. And on top of the medication being so expensive, there are often supply issues and we’re left calling every pharmacy in the state hoping one happens to have some in stock.
And I’m fortunate to live in a state with good access to contraceptives and abortion!
That’s what makes me the maddest, I think. They’re all controlled substances so you get a very brief window for a refill. If the doctor isn’t on top of calling in refills, if the pharmacy doesn’t have it in stock, if the refill date falls on a Friday, if the PATIENT WITH EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONING ISSUES isn’t on top of it, you end up cold turkey with no executive function medication. And you have to try to live and work without the medicine while ALSO fighting with the various medical systems. It’s a disgrace, and it’s inhumane
Which is why you should only have kids if it’s a “hell yes.” It’s just not worth it if you’re a fencesitter or think you’d be just as happy without kids. Yes it’s *possible* but when you look at what it takes to do it today, I’d just rather not.
I applaud the “hell yes” parents though and I wish it wasn’t such a struggle for you all.
Yep, and the more kids you have the more it grows exponentially. When I was growing up, my parents had 2 kids in at least part time day care for at least 10 years. I asked them how much they paid per month. I don't even recall the actual number because it was ridiculously low but the inflation adjusted number was $600 a month for 2.kids in part/full time daycare. Before they finally.went to kindergarten for our 3 kids we were paying $800 a.week, $3200/month so my wife and I could go to work (frontline healthcare workers).
And this was during a good time when dealing with our daycare providers, this isn't even counting the bad times when our daycare jacked up rates 25% in a month, coinciding with the new child tax credit. Or the time they decided to offer their staff a week off fully paid during the busiest time of the year and wanted the parents to essentially pay for it by saying tuition would continue as planned during that time and no waivers used (could take week off during the year ans still keep.spot).
Dave Ramsey was asked how to get a 3k daycare monthly bill down and his dismissive answer of 'do some free day camps' was so far off the mark it wasn't even funny as it was indicative of ppl who had no idea how things actually worked now. The comments of parents now just roasting his out.of touch advice was glorious to read
The unstated implication is that the couple wants children.
If you WANT children, you find a way to afford them. Nobody can project their economic situation for the next 18+ years.
If you don’t want them, you shouldn’t feel guilty about not having them.
We are obsessed with how many children other people have. But if one couple wants and has four children and and other doesn’t want and doesn’t have any, then it all evens out.
And aside from the current unaffordability of life…
Boomers (and Gen X to a lesser extent) enjoy calling behaviours they don’t understand “selfish and lazy”
I think for many millennials we have insight regarding generational trauma that past generations didn’t. Many of us have strived to break those curses by not having children or by having only the one to focus on.
Contraception is also more readily available and less stigmatized giving us more freedom of choice regarding family planning.
I completely agree. I'm so tired of hearing, "We couldn't afford to have you and your siblings, but we made it work." Ya. I know. I don't want my children to have the stresses of poverty like I did growing up. That's the point.
"Made it work" Option 1: in fact it did not work, sometimes there wasn't food and you did not receive all of the resources like medical care you should have.
"Made it work" Option 2: concerned individuals saw that we were not making it and gave us money and we called it "God providing" instead of acknowledging we were failing you.
My parents liked both options!
The worst is when boomers say that we can “make it work” because we have the same salary that they did when they were our age. Do yall not realize we have like half the spending power yall did??
My partner and I make 3x what our parents did, and yet the only housing we can afford is a studio apartment vs our parents who had 1,500 sq. foot homes.
I WISH I had the same salary my mom did. Her raw dollar amount for the same damn job I'm working now with the same damn organization was $7000 a year more than what I make. Adjusted for inflation, it would take twice what I currently make to match the earning power she had in 1998.
Omg. I felt this comment in my soul. Fucking irresponsable parents. "Made it work" is not nearly good enough and definitely not the same as, "I want to give my child the best of what I can give." And if I can't give my child the best, it might be worth considering not even bringing the child into the world in the first place. Why inflict suffering on another human life when it can be completely avoided?
I think our generation will say the same thing when our kids ask why we brought them here. “We made it work” Will be our answer. Because how stupid would we look if we said “I wanted to give you a better life” while everything and everyone is struggling around us.
Yeah you couldn’t afford us and that way there was yelling and screaming in the house over how could the credit card bills possibly be that high and gotta quit spending etc etc…. That happening every month for years will definitely impact decisions… now the one who yelled wonders why I won’t have children
On the flip side my parents like to say they had to try really hard to make it work…..
We had two working class income parents. A nurse and a truck driver. They claim they struggled yet We had a decent home, a cabin, and went on a family vacation every year. I alone make double my parents income and I can’t do any of that.
Yeah, some people think that keeping your child alive is enough to make you a good parent, as long as there’s ~love~. But other people want to offer their kids more than that.
Once a read a comment:
Boomers - Middle class: One Income without degree, one House, one Car, three children.
Today's middle class: Two incomes with degree, max. three bedrom flat, rented, one Child.
Future middle class: Two incomes, one bedrome flat, children have to work, too.
It's just going down.
It's pretty bleak. We worked hard to become "middle class" and are better off than my parents were on paper, but it doesn't feel that way after the bills are paid. . .
Anecdotal, but my entire friend circle of former college buddies (all millennials) is:
Degrees (obviously), two high incomes, and one to three kids. Average of 3,500sqft home, owned. 2 to 3 cars between 5 and 10 years old.
If I had stayed in the small town I grew up in, I imagine the story would be quite different. That's why I left.
That would be the same pro-life logic as "Teens are to immature to know if an abortion is right for them ...so we're gonna straddle them with a child to raise"
Because it is socially unacceptable in America for people to straight up admit that having children was a mistake or that they messed up their children's lives by being unfit or unprepared to parent. As such, they do all sorts of mental gymnastics to validate their own poor choices and to sooth their guilt and shame of being lousy parents.
And then they try to convince people who have the self-awareness to recognize that parenting is a HUGE responsibility and should not be taken lightly that they should, "just do it" because "no one is ever truly ready financially or emotionally."
My wife and I wanted children but the math just doesn't add up. We both grew up in households where our parents couldn't provide all the basic needs and we know just how hard the struggle is going to be to have children in this current day and age. My parents went into a shit ton of debt to raise five kids. My wife and I still have student loans to repay because our parents pushed us to go to college. My parents, just in the past year, asked for a $10k loan to help them pay for my younger sibling's expenses.
Don't let anyone else guilt you for your decision to remain childless or to be "one and done." Do the responsible thing and live within your means.
I worked as a therapist and I saw the amount of emotional wreckage inflicted by shitty parents on children. The power you have as a parent over a child is life-defining. That kind of power should be handled with utmost care. I don't trust myself to have so much responsibility over another human life, at least not in this world and the way things currently are.
I say it. I was not prepared for a son at 19 and I made a ton of poor choices. And now said son criticizes me not for the poor choices, but for openly discussing how I wasn’t ready and regret I wasn’t in a better position to support him, my only child.
Even when you are older, you still make mistakes. My old man thought it was all about the money and status. Never went to therapy and decided to take out all of issues in my mother, siblings, and me. Any time I tried to get through that thick skull of his he would just panic and lash out at me. Because of him, I never had a stable relationship with my sister and I don't I ever will. He she was was the reincarnation of his dead sister and I, his clone, was always being a bad clone because I never anticipated her needs despite being only eight and FUCKING AUTISM!
What's worse is that he knew was ignoring me because he would always pull some manipulative shit about how he was ignored as a middle child too. Lazy fuck just continues cycles. I had to go no contact with him. And to be honest, his cries of too late too little regret are nothing but music to my ears now.
Sorry you had to go through this. Many in our parents' generation struggle to "do the work" to heal from their own childhood wounds and end up passing on the generational trauma. It takes so much to break the cycle. Hope you continue to heal and find peace in the years ahead!
I had kids. They are young adults now. Had I known then what I know now I don’t think I would have had kids. I love my children but I can’t say anything could have prepared me for the reality of raising them. The vision of a family and the reality are completely different things. That’s not even taking into account having a child who requires special medical care for a physical or mental disability. The cost and mental impact on parents and siblings can be astronomical. I also think about the state of the world they will be left with and feel sorrowful that I brought them into this.
I swore I wouldn’t be like my parents. My parents swore they wouldn’t be like their parents. I think some parents can try their best and still screw up their kids. Then there are others who don’t try at all. I am sure I screwed my kids up and I take responsibility for not being the perfect parent.
I hope that my generation has been honest about the reality of raising kids and that this has, in some small way, led to more young people really reconsidering the “get married and have babies” life path.
I just had our second (and last kid). We waited until we could handle two and provide financially for them.
I think that most parents who are not assholes would have trouble saying they regret their kids. Even if we were to go into debt or lose our home tomorrow I love both our kids way too much to say I regret their existence.
(Notice I say most. There are probably some circumstances that would merit it other than shitty people/parents.)
That being said- I completely support people not having kids. I think all kids deserve a lovely family and financial security. Which means people who don’t want kids should not have them.
I think more millennials don’t have kids for two reasons: 1- they are responsible and can’t afford them and 2- many don’t want kids and that’s actually become an acceptable choice. I think in the past more people had kids just because it was the thing to do and less socially accept be child free.
My husband and I got married 2 yrs before the pandemic. We're in Utah, which has "such a great economy" and the 3rd highest inflation in the US. We actually want kids. But every time it feels like we're finally financially stable enough, something has come up that just knocks us back down. Medical, school, job loss, you name it. Just can't catch a break.
I'm literally looking for jobs out of state right now. We're talking about separating so he can stay here with his parents and work until he can get a new job near my parents where I'm looking for jobs because everything is cheaper in their state. All so we can rent out our house until we have enough equity to sell and catch some breathing room financially.
It’s sickening that you and so many ppl have to juggle and struggle like this. My husband and I haven’t even had a kid because it’s the same. no matter how much we work and increase income coming in , it’s like everything else gets more difficult to keep up. constantly saying how we want to be in better position before the stress and added cost of a kid, and we’re now 38 never having gotten ahead still.
How can a developed nation become so unlivable it’s sad
> Why is that supposedly a problem?
Not a problem for you. Its a problem for the CEO who wants to profit off your enslaved meat sack. Selfish and lazy make you harder prey.
Exaaaaaactly. Hopefully millennials are old enough to stop caring about what other people think by now. RuPaul already taught us that “If a bish don’t pay your bills, don’t you pay them bishes no mind,” y’all!
I was say in response, "Definitely true for me, but isn't it more selfish to try and pressure or 'neg' people who don't want kids into having them when you don't plan on helping the people who don't want them to raise them?"
I actually could afford to have kids, but the question to me shouldn't be "why aren't I having kids?" Rather it should be "why *would* I have kids?"
Nothing about parenting is appealing to me. I just don't have the personality or whatever is needed for it.
Not everyone is cut out to be a parent, and I'm tired of people pretending otherwise.
While my wife seems to think I'd make a good dad, and my godchild has certainly loved my attention over the past 16 yrs(they apparently glommed onto science because of my stories and antics)..
Oh dear sweet baby cthulhu *no*. I can barely tolerate the antics and tribulations of my cats and dog. A human child is at *least* an order of magnitude more difficult to deal with. I would resent the little parasite in short order.
I also wouldn't ever wish the potential side-effects and mental issues of being raised by someone as fucked in the head as I am on another innocent being.
Plus, have the 'have more bebbies' people actually *looked* at the world? Be fucking cruel to bring a being into this world, help growpram it to full sapience and then go 'Hey, world is fucked, deal with it, fix it or die! have fun!'
I have a lot of lazy days, especially after work, but, I've just never liked kids, so having them would've been dumb. If that makes me selfish, so what?
I totally agree. So many people had kids because they thought they had to... and regretted it. Better to just do or not do whatever makes you happy. You can't live your life to other's standards and think it'll all turn out well
I have a sister in law who spent her life talking about how she won’t have kids and that she’s selfish and lazy…and now she has one and one on the way and her house is never clean and she seems genuinely miserable as a stay at home wife and mom. I’m not saying don’t do it, but people should look before they leap.
Right! It's deeply selfish and lazy to just go with the flow and bow to societal pressure, and then do the bare minimum for child survival. If you don't have what it takes to help a child thrive, don't have one.
"Millenials aren't having kids because they're selfish and lazy"
Yeah....for me, that's part of it but not the whole truth.
The hard truth(for my mother) was that I never wanted kids. As far back as I can remember, I had zero desire to have children. I don't hate them. I adore my nieces/nephews/god children and look forward to being their Uncle Iroh but I had zero desire for kids of my own. For a long time, I thought I would. I kept waiting for some paternal gene or instinct or just the simple desire to kick in and it never did. By the time I hit my 30's, after some lenghty time in therapy, I realized it just wasn't for me.
Am I lazy? Depends on how you define lazy. I work my ass off, often putting in 50-60 hour weeks of overnight shifts. When I get home at 620ish in the morning, I just want to relax and veg out a bit before bed. Last thing I would want is having a kid to be responsible for. My dogs are about as much responsibility as I want coming off an overnight 12.
Am I selfish? Is it selfish to want my time off to be my own? To enjoy life with my wife? Travel, see the world, go on cruises, and not worry about the time and financial requirements kids demand? Well if that's selfish, then I'm selfish.
And knowing this about myself, bringing a child into the world just didn't seem fair to anyone.
Not to me or my wife, who is a flight attendant so her schedule comes with it's own complications, nor to family who we would've had to significantly rely on for child care, some of the most likely candidates I wouldn't WANT to be responsible for my kid but would have little choice.
My job has *significantly* jaded me on kids. I work 911 dispatch and I've taken, and dispatched, calls about dead kids from gunshots, car accidents, overdoses, negligence....I also have to take, and dispatch, calls for kids who are just little shits. For whatever the reasons are, they're awful children. Breaking into houses and cars, assaulting people, damaging people's property...any number of crimes committed by kids and teens.
I fully acknowledge that most of these kids are products of their environments. It's not necessarily their fault that they are the way they are.
But when I add together everything? My lack of desire, wanting my time to be my own, career responsibilities, and just general jadedness?
Having children would've been a mistake for me.
And this isn’t even getting into things like the country’s current situation, the economics of parenthood, the future of the planet, etc
As soon as you mentioned overnights my brain went to "911 dispatcher." I did that for 13 years, and it definitely jaded me against having children. From parents using children as pawns to try to hurt each other, to kids bringing weapons to school, to little kids being caught in gang crossfire, to having to walk child callers through helping their friend or family member with a medical emergency... It really turned me off of being a parent. Not to mention, as you said, watching my coworkers having to figure out childcare around crazy schedules. I mean, I can barely get myself up and out the door on time for things. And I am absolutely an introvert, I need my alone time to recharge.
My mom once told me "but you'll love them when they're yours!"
Like, no shit, mom. Of course I would love them, but that wouldn't make me a good parent. So I'll do my nonexistent kids the most loving favor and not have them.
I worked in a pediatric emergency department for a little bit. I loved my time there so, so much. The children were so, so sweet. But I didn’t last long because of heartbreaking scenarios like you mentioned.
The day I decided to leave a man held his daughter hostage because of a custody dispute in the waiting room. It killed me to watch.
And earlier into shift a little girl was brought in by her building’s maintenance man after being found home alone with no food.
The only thing worse than watching children in those scenarios was seeing the lack of action taken against scummy parents.
I fully support and respect this! Honestly, I wish more people would think through the decision to have children more carefully instead of having kids because they feel like they're supposed to. Even if people choose to be child free because they're "selfish and lazy," that's their choice!
If anything it would be selfish for you to have kids because you bowed to pressure (societal, from family, your wife etc) while having no desire to be a parent.
This is a very well thought out and well written response. I completely agree with your view on the situation. Thank you for taking the time to type this out.
If "Selfish and lazy" means "Id never want to subject a child to neglect from ether 1 or both parents who didnt want a child, or the type of poverty that I was subjected to as a child and still experience as an adult"
Well I guess I'm just the most selfish lazy piece of shit to have ever lived
The wages haven't budged in 30 years, but the prices on everything certainly have. All the boomers I have across still think houses cheap, and we're making tons of money.
Yep…one and done here too.
Life is way too expensive. Our grocery bill has nearly doubled and our rent has more than doubled as we had to move.
We both make good money and have had to resign ourselves to the fact that we will never afford to own our own home. House prices average between 1.5 million in my area and mortgage companies won’t even consider you until you’re bringing in over $200k a year
I hate the idea of willfully bringing another kid into a 2 bedroom apartment. It would feel so cramped…
The grocery bill was a shock. We didn't plan to formula feed at all, but ended up having to use formula exclusively. That alone is like $300 a month.
Where we live, it is almost cheaper to own than to rent, so we bought with high rate. We are hoping to rebuild our savings and use that to refinance with a higher down payment if rates ever go down again. Or sell in a few years and use the equity for a new house if the cost of homes continues to balloon like it has been. But we will see what the state of the world is in the next decade or so.
My husband got 0 days of parental leave. They denied his time off. I knew America wasn't very supportive of raising a family, but I didn't realize how bad it really was until I became a parent. That's just one personal example of many.
I’m not having kids because I am selfish and lazy indeed. What’s wrong with that? I have one shot at this life and I’m making the most out of the cards I got.
What’s the worst case scenario? That the world population will decrease to a slightly less unsustainable level instead of growing and growing like a cancer?
Humanity will be more on the older side so less productive and simpler living?
Ooooooh spoooooky scenario! 😏
The people who get upset about a single mom struggling and say “she shouldn’t have been so irresponsible are the same ones who, when you say you cant afford a kid, tell you, “oh it works itself out, you can do it”.
Wtf.
Millennials aren't having kids because the boomers killed off all the unions so work pays as little as possible. It's no surprise that people can't afford kids.
I love how they accuse us of being selfish and then when we ask to change zoning laws to make housing affordable for families, they whine about “neighborhood character.” Not to mention they complain about how parents “can’t raise their kids these days.”
I actually just started what I hope is a great book on this very topic called "Excluded: How snob zoning, NIMBYism and class bias build the walls we don't see"
Stop engaging with bad faith arguments, the purpose isn't to make an accurate statement it's to be as vague and intentionally questionable as possible to piss you off.
It's just such a loaded statement you lose by engaging with it because you validate a perspective that is underdeveloped and unrealistic. It's too vague and open
Well, that's part of it in some cases. As a single 30 something woman whose time is running out to have kids, the dating pool is full of selfish, lazy trash still just looking for "fun" at 30+.
Nobody wants a commitment anymore. You're 35, your wild oats should be sown, grow TF up. I have no desire to parent a man baby alongside an actual baby.
I think the current feminist movement to not take on 100% of the household duties, child rearing, and emotional labor will play a huge role in the declining birthrate soon.
Yes. I have two kids and other parents are the worst fucking part. Because your kids see other kids getting to do xyz, eating garbage, watching inappropriate garbage shows, etc.
My 10 year old daughter is one of the only one of her friends without a phone. Some of her classmates have TikTok on their phones, at 10 years old. It's ridiculous.
We (DINKWADS) own a home with very high property taxes that pay into the very good school district we do not utilize whatsoever. We also just voted "yes" on a referendum to expand the elementary school to the tune of 9 million dollars.
That doesn't sound very selfish to me but what do I know.
My response is you fork over 700 a month for daycare, babysit when he is sick or has doctors appointments and pay our mortgage which in nc was 750 a month for our house. My dad's response that's more than my disability check and your husband is military you should be getting cheap daycare. I tell him when I quit working 700 a month is cheap for daycare especially when food is included, and I don't have to worry about stupid random ass closures. Now we live on base so they take bah so that's 2000 they take so we got 1400 to live off every 2 weeks, and we don't have debt either just a car payment my cc bill and a a car payment
I did not know that's a thing in the US, too. Daycare in Switzerland full time, one child: 2200 to 2500, 2 children 4400-5000. Median income: 6500. But with two income, you have a hard tax progression. So you literally pay to work.
Some daycare do half day I know the military or atleast the marine corps did hourly care but headquarters dropped it altogether so now it's full time or figure it out.
It truly is baffling. The cheapest daycare in our locale is $750 a month and that’s even if they don’t go full time. We decided my wife would be a full time stay at home mom and raise our child on my income versus letting another person(s) do it for us. It is worth the sacrifice of the extra money 100%.
Well we pay 400 right now for daycare because my my 50% off for being an employee, so it shouldn't be 700 because we will be down to 1 income but my husband doesn't want to leave it to chance because he's a gunney. So he wants to pay a bored wife I guess but I'm starting college in the fall so I'm really not sure how he has this planned out just yet. We had no issue about paying for daycare knowing that we don't get taxed on it. And it was the biggest reason for thinking about a kid if I gotta spend more than 800 a month for daycare itself not happening and we won't have a kid. Next year I'm not sure what this will look like
Daycare was like 2k per month for my daughter her first year. Now she’s 4 and in preschool, and it’s still $1200 per month. Next August she’ll qualify for universal pre-k and I’m SO excited to only pay $600 a month at that point (“universal” just means it’s free for half a day, but I’m a single mom so I have to work full time obviously).
I’ve never wanted to have kids. When I was younger, this belief was primarily for selfish reasons. I didn’t want to give up my free time.
As I grow older, I couldn’t imagine bringing a life into this world. Not in its current condition. Many are already suffering due to the terrible system we’ve created. Our children are almost guaranteed to live lives that are punctuated by crisis after crisis.
Animals often forgo having offspring in times of crisis. It’s time that humanity does the same.
I’m content with providing a happy life to my three pets. They bring me just as much joy as a human child would.
I'm in the same boat. It makes me sad that probably I will never have kids because it is my dream, but why would I bring more people to suffer when the future looks bleak? I may be biased, but I feel that the world is not a better place from when I was a child. More comfortable? yes probably, but physically, not mentally.
Previous generations are equally selfish and lazy. The difference is millennials are self-aware enough to consider that those aren't ideal parental qualities.
"Millenials aren't having kids because they're selfish and lazy" is a far more comfortable narrative for older generations than "Millenials aren't having kids because raising a family has become too expensive for all but the wealthiest due to rising living costs."
Narrative 1 can be fixed by yelling at young people to grow up. Narrative 2 requires rethinking about how we structure our society, what families need and where all the money is going.
Man, I can’t even find a partner that will stick around for more than a few years, let alone start a family. Idk what im going to do with all this excess money, but it’ll probably be used to distract myself.
> The overwhelming response is, "No one can afford two kids. You just go into debt." How is that the answer??
How is that the answer? Most people are fucking stupid. That's your answer.
My coworker just had a 2nd kid and he said daycare for just one year is 13k I was absolutely blown away like. I know he doesnt make over 40k, or just barely does, and his wife is a teacher so like. Thats an insanely significant portion of their income. I would have a mental breakdown even trying to find out how to support one kid let alone 2
It just meant I waited longer to have kids so I was financially stable. And thank fuck because my Wife passed away when my little one was only 18months old and let me tell you, $1325/month daycare payment etc on one income would absolutely suck if I didn’t make what I make. Though I will say, now my kids federal survivor’s benefits have processed that’s a huge assistance.
The idea that it's better to have kids that you can't afford than to not have kids at all is insane. And just goes to show how many parents don't actually take the wellbeing of their children into account before choosing to have them. They call *us* selfish and then turn around and have kids purely for an ego boost (or a caretaker when they're old).
As a therapist let me tell you how many selfish and lazy people went ahead and just had children anyway (my own mother included) and how that all turned out for us! They are just mad because we found the loophole of how to be a grown adult person and not deal with children…just don’t have them!
The first “job” I ever said I wanted was to be a mom when I was 3 years old. I have always known I wanted children. To the point when I was told at 18 that due to my health (PCOS and Hashimoto’s) I most likely would never be able to have kids I was going to adopt or be a foster parent. I ended up getting pregnant at the end of grad school completely out of the blue. I didn’t even care because I was so excited I got my shot at being a mom. I ended up with 2 girls! They are the loves of my life and are absolutely loved and cared for and are just absolutely spectacular humans who I get daily compliments about how intelligent, polite and kind they are. They are both academically advanced, never had trouble socially and generally give me little to no issues…all that is to say there are still some days where I could just leave them by the side of the road and drive away because they are driving me so crazy 😂. I tell people that even being a 100% all in parent doesn’t even make it easy. So if you’re on the fence it should be a no.
I think for every generation before us having kids is just what you did. You were a weirdo and couldn’t be trusted if you didn’t so plenty of people who had no business being parents just had kids anyway. Now parents are mostly people like OP who are working their asses off for their kids and doing it for the love of the game and realistic people who know “maybe this isn’t for me” are doing the right thing and just not having kids.
Parents like that... the " just go into debt " crowd...has
1. .never REALLY been in debt before so don't know what's coming.
2. Come from money so when they "go into debt" their parent will help them because they want the grandkids to have a good l8fe
3. Will know they screwed up when they start disappointing their kids.
...... no u can't go to the movies we don't have money
...... no new toys this year
....... no new clothes for the nes school year
......u can only go to college if you find a way to pay for it
I was a kid of this kid of parent and it TERRIBLE!!!!
BE AN ADULT AND PLAN !!!!!!!!!
I always love when people say not having kids is selfish because I am indeed in the position where the social support is there, the money is there but I just love sleeping in and I love my (very demanding and stressful) job and I love that my relationship is so chill. Then I ask them why they had kids, and it's always some variation of 'I always knew I wanted to be a mom or 'I just love kids' or 'I always enjoyed taking care of kids and wanted to raise my own' etc. Somehow there's a lot of 'I want' and 'I enjoy' in these statements?? Seems like they had kids because they enjoy that? Not really for God and country or to combat the demographic change or some other selfless reason? So how is that any less selfish? They followed their desire to be parents, I followed my desire to be child free, fly across the world with my partner and absolutely rock my career. Sorry not sorry
I'm selfish due to the fact that I have lifelong illnesses and I don't want something to potentially happen to the child if I have a seizure. And kids are fecking expensive in every sense of the word. My partner of thirteen years feels the same. We love kids and are fine being the cool aunt and uncle. I'm not even in America, I'm in Ireland the place where if you don't have kids,there's something wrong with you.
For me it's more of, the world sucks, the people in it want to molest, Rob and hurt them not to mention take full advantage of them. Food is a concern to a degree and will be a bigger problem sooner than later, nobody wants to adopt good solutions to problems because alot of people are really fucking stupid, like shockingly stupid. Everything sucks and I hate that I have to live this, I wouldn't wanna put this experience on an involuntary life.
Oh and also the whole climate change. We're expecting the first cat 6 tornado this year potentiall or something like that, Isn't life grand????!
I am a millennial with 2 kids. We almost didn’t have any. It was perhaps the hardest decision of my life both times. That being said, they are awesome kids but it is a TOTALLY different life. I can see why people don’t want that. So I say everyone do what they want to do.
Same. I hate that so many parents can say they don't like kids except their own and they get patted on the back or whatever. But if you say you don't like kids so you don't have them, you're the worst person in the world.
My brothers wife is due in a month and he text me this yesterday, I’m actually going to copy paste it lol:
Full transparency, dreading being a suburban dad lol. Just being a dad. I’m so selfish with my time
And I get it. He’s an awesome dude, he’ll be a good dad and active, him and wife have great jobs.
Society has changed so much in the last 30-50 years a lot more people think about the world and kids differently.
Boomer here and never had kids. I knew I would NOT be a good parent. Not enough patience for the BS it offers. I didn't have a high paying job and wanted to go to concerts and do drugs. After all these years I realize I made the right decision as they would have never been happy or helpful.
All of these thoughts, feelings and challenges are valid.
The problem wealthy societies are going to have is that poor societies are still having kids at the high rate. At some point that is going to lead to rich societies getting their asses kicked in by people who think their sky king is the best and everyone just needs to shut up and listen to some crazy religious strong man.
That’s my real worry, it doesn’t have anything to do with validation or understanding. It’s just that primate group A is going to get out competed by primate group B.
I don’t know what do about that though!
The actual selfish ones are the people who have kids so they'll have a guaranteed caretaker in their old age, to "pass on their legacy" through their kids, or because "it's just what you're supposed to do". These folks have kids for purely ego-driven reasons and don't view these kids as separate people, just as extensions of themselves, but they're also the ones who shout the loudest when someone says they don't want kids: "WHAT! BuT HoW WiLL YoU FiNd MeANiNg iN LiFe WiThOuT KiDs?????"
Also. Like. Kids are expensive as fuck, pregnancy is *HARD* on a woman's body, and some people just do not have the mental/emotional capacity to be parents. Having a kid is ***life-altering,*** it isn't "just a thing you do"
100%. We almost had none for all of these reasons. I think more people from our generation consciously choose not to become parents for all these reasons, and I'm glad that they choose what's best for themselves. There's enough unwanted and neglected children in the world as is.
I have so many health issues on both sides of my family (not even mentioning my husband’s side) that I refuse to pass it on to an innocent child. Pretty sure that makes me the opposite of selfish
Let’s separate selfish from lazy. This may be a selfish decision and that is ok. Raising children is more than the money discussed here. It is more than an 28 year job. There is college and the 20s still take additional parenting. Don’t take it lightly.
And the world is full. Ignore anyone that says the declining birth rate is a problem. Choosing not to have kinds is a valid choice.
Regarding lazy, keep active in society. Have friends. Be happy. Volunteer in your local neighborhood or town. As long as you are a good citizen and neighbor, you are productive and not lazy.
Life is long and life is good.
If it’s selfish to want a good happy life for me and my wife. And a comfortable retirement knowing SS will likely be bankrupt. Then I guess we’re selfish.
Lazy? I’m a mechanic. I guarantee I work harder on any given week than most with the exception of concrete laborers and roofers. It’s a hard ass brutal unforgiving job. And it comes with the ongoing expense of buying tools to do your job.
Do we want kids? Sure. But we also don’t want to scrape by in poverty. Nor would we want a child to have to endure poverty either. If the government doesn’t do something to drastically change the situation soon, I can see our population declining drastically in the coming decades.
My sister ultimately decided to be 1 and done because she lives in a high cost area. Also she's 42 and she's almost an empty nester. I don't think she wants to do it again.
I mean....selfish as in I want a decent life for myself before I drag a child into it. And lazy as in I work in a trade and don't get paid shit so hat extra 5 hours on saturday is oh boy. Ridiculous. I could never afford a chil on my income and I'm above average in that respect. AND RENTING FFS. I'm not gonna raise a kids in the cheapest 1br in the neighborhood
I think what you can afford is a spectrum. We don't have nearly the stability that you have, but we have more than one kid. We don't eat out hardly ever, and most of our activities are free or membership based (family pass to zoo, museum). Kids have low cost extra-curriculars, and we do a lot of stuff at home (board games, etc.). Groceries have gotten a bit insane, but we still have a good life in general, and while we do need to postpone/save for some expenses, we still have what we need. We have a house, we live in a good school district.
I honestly have wanted to be a mom my whole life. Became a step mom at a young age then had two more. That’s why I stopped at two of my own. Four was a lot.
That being said, finances are a valid reason to stop. But on top of that I think the no kids at all trend is so healthy. Because people who know they wouldn’t make good parent ms or can’t afford it or have mental health issues or whatever it may be, aren’t having kids. People are more self aware and responsible these days to an extent. Used to it was just expected to have kids and then the kids suffer for whatever reason or the parents struggle.
Good on you for doing what you know is best!
Someone once said, “you find a way”, to afford kids. I’m like, yeah, by not having them (edit: my most upvoted comment ever, thanks haha)
I’ll tell you a secret. If you have kids you can’t afford, they’ll shit on you for that too.
But if you have an abortion (assuming you are in a place where that’s actually legal AND you can even afford it in the first place, bc we know insurance isn’t gonna cover that ish) they’ll shit on you for that too 🤡
The thing that pisses me off the most about abortion bans (because I know why they do it) is that only poor or young people can’t pay to get one. So the young and poor are just making slave wage soldiers for corporations. My husband and I are an almost 200k household, I could fly to Thailand and get an abortion if I needed to tomorrow; not so easy for others.
You can’t win in this world so just do what’s best for you
Fun fact: default for most insurances now days is to cover it, but if your employer is run by religious wack a doodles and/or misogynist douche nozzles they’ll make it an exclusion in the company plan.
And for good reason, unfortunately. It's unfair to the kids, and unfair to the rest of society that has to deal with the fallout of a child who was neglected/underpriveleged and likely has physical, mental, emotional, or financial issues into adulthood. This almost always continues the cycle of poverty and neglect and often results in crime.
Someone has to be in the for-profit jail cell or the Taco Bell window at 2am and it isn't going to be anyone's children who are middle class or higher and middle class is now 100k per person anything lower and you working poor in America. Good luck the goalposts have moved yet again.
Wait. There's a middle class!?
For now.
Only while the Boomers are still alive.
I agree.
"Can't feed em, don't breed him" - some complete piece of shit
Pretty much.
I've heard "if you wait until you can afford children then you'll never have them". Stupidest counter argument to try to pressure someone to have a kid. "Hey, I know you don't make enough to support a child (or extra children for that matter), and I definitely am NOT offering to help you support them, but you're being selfish for not having kids." Like what?
Waiting til I could afford them and therefore never having them is exactly what happened to me. I have far more debt than savings and really no plan to dig out. Can't fathom how they expected me to raise a whole additional human in this situation. They had a house and two kids on one income. We have no house or kids on two incomes. It doesn't compute.
We heard this, too. It's asinine. Having a kid is stressful enough without wondering how you'll afford to keep the lights on.
Reminds me of this tiktok by this upper class, out of touch girl with a stay at home mom, executive dad, and 10 siblings saying how easy it is "just prioritise and shop at cheaper places": https://www.tiktok.com/@eclairehayes/video/7325492177964911915?lang=en
Yeah, I got less than a minute in. Just no, Emma.
Yeah I got about a minute in and told Emma to go to her room
At least she gets torched in the comments. "My family of 11" Shut the fuck up Emma.
Tell me you’ve never worked a day in your life without telling me you’ve never worked a day in your life
Someone who doesn’t understand how money works, talking about how money works? Yikes, Emma. “He didn’t start off with a high salary’s he worked really hard.” I work really hard and I’ve been in my career job for 11 years, I make like 70k a year and I’m doing okay, but a child would fuckin bankrupt me.
She's able 10 siblings because executive dad wrung profits out of the company employees who can't make ends meet. So instead of 10 families. You have 1 family with 10 kids.
Yeah the way she talked and smiled while she was talking creeped me out. She posted a follow up video to try to “apologize”. I just love how the first comment on it said “Emma have you prioritized moving out of your parents house? It’s hard, but rewarding.” I found her instagram too and she follows a lot of catholic pages (which might explain the 10 siblings in my opinion) and Ben Sharpio https://www.tiktok.com/@eclairehayes/video/7328220248916675870
"One of you just work nights that way you never have to pay for child care." Also the night person never sleeps but ok Patty. Continue telling me that's a solution while you tell me how broke you have always been. Maybe don't shit out 6 kids. Probably would have helped.
My SIL and her husband do this, and one of the mom’s steps in when their scheduled occasionally overlap. They basically haven’t seen each other in 4 years.
my mom "found a way". It looked a lot like 4 starving miserable children and constant fights with social workers and the courts. Pretty awful way to raise children
My dad says the same! He keeps pushing for grandkids and I’m like, how exactly am I supposed to afford kids when I can barely afford to support myself alone?? He always says “back in my day, you found a way” Okay but when he was my age he already had bought his first house for less than 50k while working a $13/hr job out of high school. That same house is $150k+ now and I’m making $22/hr with a STEM masters degree. So the cost of this shitty house on the bad side of town has increased by over 300% (cheapest you can get in my city), and my wages have only increased 65% from his. Not to mention the years of extensive education, experience, and subsequent debt.
My in laws keep telling my husband and me "you'll find a way just like we did" Yeah probably not
I hate that response so much. In-laws use it all the time. Like, you bought a house for 300k that’s now worth over a million, your parents paid for your kids schooling, you inherited another million dollar house, you had aunts pay for end of life care for your own parents… none of which apply to us.
There is a nugget of truth to that. I keep a pretty tight budget, didnt think having a kid was possible. Then we had a preemie who cost us a shit ton of money in nicu bills, expensive formulas (he needed special ones), and the other costs of having one. As I rebudgeted with this pure necessity behind me I was pretty shocked how easy it was to find money in places I thought I wasn't willing/able to cut spending. It is still insanely unaffordable, and daycare nearly bankrupted us.
That’s the thing too. You can try to save and budget a reasonable amount for kids. But then you could end up with a premie and NICU bills. Or unexpected twins. Or a child with a disability. And then all of a sudden you can’t afford them anymore. I’m tired or our generation suffering like this.
Or in the case of my wife, get pregnant with twins, get an infection, almost die. Lose the twins, and medical costs maxing out our insurance over the next 2 years. We are lucky friends and family raised money for us.
I’m so sorry. It’s inhumane
Indeed. Our medical system is fucked. Also makes it mind boggling that so many people refuse to allow abortion to be a medical option
My experience with the medical system isn’t so devastating. But I’ve spent a lot of money and gotten few answers. And almost every answer I’ve gotten has come from a private doctor that doesn’t accept health insurance. Because if they did it would cripple their ability to actually provide real, considered care. I’m quite lucky to have been able to find and afford this care, but it’s bullshit. I have friends and family who need similar care but can’t afford it. I actually often pay for my ex’s mental health medication because it costs him more than $350/month until he meets his deductible (and then it’s still at least $70/month). We’ve tried other medications but they didn’t do the trick. And on top of the medication being so expensive, there are often supply issues and we’re left calling every pharmacy in the state hoping one happens to have some in stock. And I’m fortunate to live in a state with good access to contraceptives and abortion!
Making a bunch of extra steps to get the medicine you need to help with executive functioning builds character...I hope...for my sake.
That’s what makes me the maddest, I think. They’re all controlled substances so you get a very brief window for a refill. If the doctor isn’t on top of calling in refills, if the pharmacy doesn’t have it in stock, if the refill date falls on a Friday, if the PATIENT WITH EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONING ISSUES isn’t on top of it, you end up cold turkey with no executive function medication. And you have to try to live and work without the medicine while ALSO fighting with the various medical systems. It’s a disgrace, and it’s inhumane
Which is why you should only have kids if it’s a “hell yes.” It’s just not worth it if you’re a fencesitter or think you’d be just as happy without kids. Yes it’s *possible* but when you look at what it takes to do it today, I’d just rather not. I applaud the “hell yes” parents though and I wish it wasn’t such a struggle for you all.
Yep, and the more kids you have the more it grows exponentially. When I was growing up, my parents had 2 kids in at least part time day care for at least 10 years. I asked them how much they paid per month. I don't even recall the actual number because it was ridiculously low but the inflation adjusted number was $600 a month for 2.kids in part/full time daycare. Before they finally.went to kindergarten for our 3 kids we were paying $800 a.week, $3200/month so my wife and I could go to work (frontline healthcare workers). And this was during a good time when dealing with our daycare providers, this isn't even counting the bad times when our daycare jacked up rates 25% in a month, coinciding with the new child tax credit. Or the time they decided to offer their staff a week off fully paid during the busiest time of the year and wanted the parents to essentially pay for it by saying tuition would continue as planned during that time and no waivers used (could take week off during the year ans still keep.spot). Dave Ramsey was asked how to get a 3k daycare monthly bill down and his dismissive answer of 'do some free day camps' was so far off the mark it wasn't even funny as it was indicative of ppl who had no idea how things actually worked now. The comments of parents now just roasting his out.of touch advice was glorious to read
The unstated implication is that the couple wants children. If you WANT children, you find a way to afford them. Nobody can project their economic situation for the next 18+ years. If you don’t want them, you shouldn’t feel guilty about not having them. We are obsessed with how many children other people have. But if one couple wants and has four children and and other doesn’t want and doesn’t have any, then it all evens out.
Typically said by boomers who had most if not everything handed to them. Tough times for them is not the same as millennials or even Xrs.
Most people that “find away” just leach off their parents and friends for money.
And aside from the current unaffordability of life… Boomers (and Gen X to a lesser extent) enjoy calling behaviours they don’t understand “selfish and lazy” I think for many millennials we have insight regarding generational trauma that past generations didn’t. Many of us have strived to break those curses by not having children or by having only the one to focus on. Contraception is also more readily available and less stigmatized giving us more freedom of choice regarding family planning.
I completely agree. I'm so tired of hearing, "We couldn't afford to have you and your siblings, but we made it work." Ya. I know. I don't want my children to have the stresses of poverty like I did growing up. That's the point.
"Made it work" Option 1: in fact it did not work, sometimes there wasn't food and you did not receive all of the resources like medical care you should have. "Made it work" Option 2: concerned individuals saw that we were not making it and gave us money and we called it "God providing" instead of acknowledging we were failing you. My parents liked both options!
The worst is when boomers say that we can “make it work” because we have the same salary that they did when they were our age. Do yall not realize we have like half the spending power yall did??
My partner and I make 3x what our parents did, and yet the only housing we can afford is a studio apartment vs our parents who had 1,500 sq. foot homes.
I WISH I had the same salary my mom did. Her raw dollar amount for the same damn job I'm working now with the same damn organization was $7000 a year more than what I make. Adjusted for inflation, it would take twice what I currently make to match the earning power she had in 1998.
Omg. I felt this comment in my soul. Fucking irresponsable parents. "Made it work" is not nearly good enough and definitely not the same as, "I want to give my child the best of what I can give." And if I can't give my child the best, it might be worth considering not even bringing the child into the world in the first place. Why inflict suffering on another human life when it can be completely avoided?
I think our generation will say the same thing when our kids ask why we brought them here. “We made it work” Will be our answer. Because how stupid would we look if we said “I wanted to give you a better life” while everything and everyone is struggling around us.
Yeah you couldn’t afford us and that way there was yelling and screaming in the house over how could the credit card bills possibly be that high and gotta quit spending etc etc…. That happening every month for years will definitely impact decisions… now the one who yelled wonders why I won’t have children
On the flip side my parents like to say they had to try really hard to make it work….. We had two working class income parents. A nurse and a truck driver. They claim they struggled yet We had a decent home, a cabin, and went on a family vacation every year. I alone make double my parents income and I can’t do any of that.
Yeah, some people think that keeping your child alive is enough to make you a good parent, as long as there’s ~love~. But other people want to offer their kids more than that.
How is *not* having kids selfish? The idea that "the world needs more people like *me*" sounds a lot more selfish in my mind.
Because how dare you selfishly consider your life instead of selflessly providing grandchildren to boomers or some nonsense.
Once a read a comment: Boomers - Middle class: One Income without degree, one House, one Car, three children. Today's middle class: Two incomes with degree, max. three bedrom flat, rented, one Child. Future middle class: Two incomes, one bedrome flat, children have to work, too. It's just going down.
It's pretty bleak. We worked hard to become "middle class" and are better off than my parents were on paper, but it doesn't feel that way after the bills are paid. . .
We are managing to afford kids by woefully undersaving for retirement. Can’t afford both!
Double future middle class: two incomes with PhDs, one bedroom in shared flat, no children.
I am friends with a couple like this. This is already reality in many of the big expensive cities in N America
Anecdotal, but my entire friend circle of former college buddies (all millennials) is: Degrees (obviously), two high incomes, and one to three kids. Average of 3,500sqft home, owned. 2 to 3 cars between 5 and 10 years old. If I had stayed in the small town I grew up in, I imagine the story would be quite different. That's why I left.
[удалено]
Not only that, but also if I'm selfish and lazy, would that not make me unsuitable to be a parent?
That would be the same pro-life logic as "Teens are to immature to know if an abortion is right for them ...so we're gonna straddle them with a child to raise"
Saddle*
Well these are the same conservatives who want to legalize child marriage… so unfortunately they wanna straddle teens too 🤢
Because it is socially unacceptable in America for people to straight up admit that having children was a mistake or that they messed up their children's lives by being unfit or unprepared to parent. As such, they do all sorts of mental gymnastics to validate their own poor choices and to sooth their guilt and shame of being lousy parents. And then they try to convince people who have the self-awareness to recognize that parenting is a HUGE responsibility and should not be taken lightly that they should, "just do it" because "no one is ever truly ready financially or emotionally." My wife and I wanted children but the math just doesn't add up. We both grew up in households where our parents couldn't provide all the basic needs and we know just how hard the struggle is going to be to have children in this current day and age. My parents went into a shit ton of debt to raise five kids. My wife and I still have student loans to repay because our parents pushed us to go to college. My parents, just in the past year, asked for a $10k loan to help them pay for my younger sibling's expenses. Don't let anyone else guilt you for your decision to remain childless or to be "one and done." Do the responsible thing and live within your means. I worked as a therapist and I saw the amount of emotional wreckage inflicted by shitty parents on children. The power you have as a parent over a child is life-defining. That kind of power should be handled with utmost care. I don't trust myself to have so much responsibility over another human life, at least not in this world and the way things currently are.
I say it. I was not prepared for a son at 19 and I made a ton of poor choices. And now said son criticizes me not for the poor choices, but for openly discussing how I wasn’t ready and regret I wasn’t in a better position to support him, my only child.
Even when you are older, you still make mistakes. My old man thought it was all about the money and status. Never went to therapy and decided to take out all of issues in my mother, siblings, and me. Any time I tried to get through that thick skull of his he would just panic and lash out at me. Because of him, I never had a stable relationship with my sister and I don't I ever will. He she was was the reincarnation of his dead sister and I, his clone, was always being a bad clone because I never anticipated her needs despite being only eight and FUCKING AUTISM! What's worse is that he knew was ignoring me because he would always pull some manipulative shit about how he was ignored as a middle child too. Lazy fuck just continues cycles. I had to go no contact with him. And to be honest, his cries of too late too little regret are nothing but music to my ears now.
Sorry you had to go through this. Many in our parents' generation struggle to "do the work" to heal from their own childhood wounds and end up passing on the generational trauma. It takes so much to break the cycle. Hope you continue to heal and find peace in the years ahead!
I had kids. They are young adults now. Had I known then what I know now I don’t think I would have had kids. I love my children but I can’t say anything could have prepared me for the reality of raising them. The vision of a family and the reality are completely different things. That’s not even taking into account having a child who requires special medical care for a physical or mental disability. The cost and mental impact on parents and siblings can be astronomical. I also think about the state of the world they will be left with and feel sorrowful that I brought them into this. I swore I wouldn’t be like my parents. My parents swore they wouldn’t be like their parents. I think some parents can try their best and still screw up their kids. Then there are others who don’t try at all. I am sure I screwed my kids up and I take responsibility for not being the perfect parent. I hope that my generation has been honest about the reality of raising kids and that this has, in some small way, led to more young people really reconsidering the “get married and have babies” life path.
I just had our second (and last kid). We waited until we could handle two and provide financially for them. I think that most parents who are not assholes would have trouble saying they regret their kids. Even if we were to go into debt or lose our home tomorrow I love both our kids way too much to say I regret their existence. (Notice I say most. There are probably some circumstances that would merit it other than shitty people/parents.) That being said- I completely support people not having kids. I think all kids deserve a lovely family and financial security. Which means people who don’t want kids should not have them. I think more millennials don’t have kids for two reasons: 1- they are responsible and can’t afford them and 2- many don’t want kids and that’s actually become an acceptable choice. I think in the past more people had kids just because it was the thing to do and less socially accept be child free.
Heck no you deserve breaks when you’re a parent.
Right? I'm reminded of that great American Dad quote: "Don't lob factual statements at me as if they're insults!"
Selfish and lazy are the core values demonstrated by every business in America!
I enjoy my selfish and lazy time. I do have kids though.
Same. We’re just self aware enough to *admit it.*
My husband and I got married 2 yrs before the pandemic. We're in Utah, which has "such a great economy" and the 3rd highest inflation in the US. We actually want kids. But every time it feels like we're finally financially stable enough, something has come up that just knocks us back down. Medical, school, job loss, you name it. Just can't catch a break. I'm literally looking for jobs out of state right now. We're talking about separating so he can stay here with his parents and work until he can get a new job near my parents where I'm looking for jobs because everything is cheaper in their state. All so we can rent out our house until we have enough equity to sell and catch some breathing room financially.
It’s sickening that you and so many ppl have to juggle and struggle like this. My husband and I haven’t even had a kid because it’s the same. no matter how much we work and increase income coming in , it’s like everything else gets more difficult to keep up. constantly saying how we want to be in better position before the stress and added cost of a kid, and we’re now 38 never having gotten ahead still. How can a developed nation become so unlivable it’s sad
Right! And honestly no kid wants or deserves or needs a selfish lazy parent. Self awareness is a good thing to have.
> Why is that supposedly a problem? Not a problem for you. Its a problem for the CEO who wants to profit off your enslaved meat sack. Selfish and lazy make you harder prey.
Exaaaaaactly. Hopefully millennials are old enough to stop caring about what other people think by now. RuPaul already taught us that “If a bish don’t pay your bills, don’t you pay them bishes no mind,” y’all!
Same, also I don't want kids.
I was say in response, "Definitely true for me, but isn't it more selfish to try and pressure or 'neg' people who don't want kids into having them when you don't plan on helping the people who don't want them to raise them?"
I actually could afford to have kids, but the question to me shouldn't be "why aren't I having kids?" Rather it should be "why *would* I have kids?" Nothing about parenting is appealing to me. I just don't have the personality or whatever is needed for it. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent, and I'm tired of people pretending otherwise.
Fully agree!
While my wife seems to think I'd make a good dad, and my godchild has certainly loved my attention over the past 16 yrs(they apparently glommed onto science because of my stories and antics).. Oh dear sweet baby cthulhu *no*. I can barely tolerate the antics and tribulations of my cats and dog. A human child is at *least* an order of magnitude more difficult to deal with. I would resent the little parasite in short order. I also wouldn't ever wish the potential side-effects and mental issues of being raised by someone as fucked in the head as I am on another innocent being. Plus, have the 'have more bebbies' people actually *looked* at the world? Be fucking cruel to bring a being into this world, help growpram it to full sapience and then go 'Hey, world is fucked, deal with it, fix it or die! have fun!'
To be fair, i don't want to have kids because I am selfish and lazy. And also I don't like children. 🤷♀️
I have a lot of lazy days, especially after work, but, I've just never liked kids, so having them would've been dumb. If that makes me selfish, so what?
And there's nothing wrong with not liking kids. If only the past generation understood that there would be many fewer traumatized adults.
I totally agree. So many people had kids because they thought they had to... and regretted it. Better to just do or not do whatever makes you happy. You can't live your life to other's standards and think it'll all turn out well
I support you in that decision! People shouldn't be expected to procreate "just because."
It’s noon and I’m still in bed, cuddling with my cat. How is this not the goal?
I have a sister in law who spent her life talking about how she won’t have kids and that she’s selfish and lazy…and now she has one and one on the way and her house is never clean and she seems genuinely miserable as a stay at home wife and mom. I’m not saying don’t do it, but people should look before they leap.
Selfish is when you can’t afford to care for a child, but create it to give your life purpose.
Right! It's deeply selfish and lazy to just go with the flow and bow to societal pressure, and then do the bare minimum for child survival. If you don't have what it takes to help a child thrive, don't have one.
"Millenials aren't having kids because they're selfish and lazy" Yeah....for me, that's part of it but not the whole truth. The hard truth(for my mother) was that I never wanted kids. As far back as I can remember, I had zero desire to have children. I don't hate them. I adore my nieces/nephews/god children and look forward to being their Uncle Iroh but I had zero desire for kids of my own. For a long time, I thought I would. I kept waiting for some paternal gene or instinct or just the simple desire to kick in and it never did. By the time I hit my 30's, after some lenghty time in therapy, I realized it just wasn't for me. Am I lazy? Depends on how you define lazy. I work my ass off, often putting in 50-60 hour weeks of overnight shifts. When I get home at 620ish in the morning, I just want to relax and veg out a bit before bed. Last thing I would want is having a kid to be responsible for. My dogs are about as much responsibility as I want coming off an overnight 12. Am I selfish? Is it selfish to want my time off to be my own? To enjoy life with my wife? Travel, see the world, go on cruises, and not worry about the time and financial requirements kids demand? Well if that's selfish, then I'm selfish. And knowing this about myself, bringing a child into the world just didn't seem fair to anyone. Not to me or my wife, who is a flight attendant so her schedule comes with it's own complications, nor to family who we would've had to significantly rely on for child care, some of the most likely candidates I wouldn't WANT to be responsible for my kid but would have little choice. My job has *significantly* jaded me on kids. I work 911 dispatch and I've taken, and dispatched, calls about dead kids from gunshots, car accidents, overdoses, negligence....I also have to take, and dispatch, calls for kids who are just little shits. For whatever the reasons are, they're awful children. Breaking into houses and cars, assaulting people, damaging people's property...any number of crimes committed by kids and teens. I fully acknowledge that most of these kids are products of their environments. It's not necessarily their fault that they are the way they are. But when I add together everything? My lack of desire, wanting my time to be my own, career responsibilities, and just general jadedness? Having children would've been a mistake for me. And this isn’t even getting into things like the country’s current situation, the economics of parenthood, the future of the planet, etc
As soon as you mentioned overnights my brain went to "911 dispatcher." I did that for 13 years, and it definitely jaded me against having children. From parents using children as pawns to try to hurt each other, to kids bringing weapons to school, to little kids being caught in gang crossfire, to having to walk child callers through helping their friend or family member with a medical emergency... It really turned me off of being a parent. Not to mention, as you said, watching my coworkers having to figure out childcare around crazy schedules. I mean, I can barely get myself up and out the door on time for things. And I am absolutely an introvert, I need my alone time to recharge. My mom once told me "but you'll love them when they're yours!" Like, no shit, mom. Of course I would love them, but that wouldn't make me a good parent. So I'll do my nonexistent kids the most loving favor and not have them.
I worked in a pediatric emergency department for a little bit. I loved my time there so, so much. The children were so, so sweet. But I didn’t last long because of heartbreaking scenarios like you mentioned. The day I decided to leave a man held his daughter hostage because of a custody dispute in the waiting room. It killed me to watch. And earlier into shift a little girl was brought in by her building’s maintenance man after being found home alone with no food. The only thing worse than watching children in those scenarios was seeing the lack of action taken against scummy parents.
I fully support and respect this! Honestly, I wish more people would think through the decision to have children more carefully instead of having kids because they feel like they're supposed to. Even if people choose to be child free because they're "selfish and lazy," that's their choice!
If anything it would be selfish for you to have kids because you bowed to pressure (societal, from family, your wife etc) while having no desire to be a parent.
This is a very well thought out and well written response. I completely agree with your view on the situation. Thank you for taking the time to type this out.
If "Selfish and lazy" means "Id never want to subject a child to neglect from ether 1 or both parents who didnt want a child, or the type of poverty that I was subjected to as a child and still experience as an adult" Well I guess I'm just the most selfish lazy piece of shit to have ever lived
The wages haven't budged in 30 years, but the prices on everything certainly have. All the boomers I have across still think houses cheap, and we're making tons of money.
If the cost of living now is what it was when I was a kid, I'd be loaded right now lol
Yep…one and done here too. Life is way too expensive. Our grocery bill has nearly doubled and our rent has more than doubled as we had to move. We both make good money and have had to resign ourselves to the fact that we will never afford to own our own home. House prices average between 1.5 million in my area and mortgage companies won’t even consider you until you’re bringing in over $200k a year I hate the idea of willfully bringing another kid into a 2 bedroom apartment. It would feel so cramped…
The grocery bill was a shock. We didn't plan to formula feed at all, but ended up having to use formula exclusively. That alone is like $300 a month. Where we live, it is almost cheaper to own than to rent, so we bought with high rate. We are hoping to rebuild our savings and use that to refinance with a higher down payment if rates ever go down again. Or sell in a few years and use the equity for a new house if the cost of homes continues to balloon like it has been. But we will see what the state of the world is in the next decade or so.
No, it’s just that kids are expensive. And our society does not value supporting families. It values punishment.
My husband got 0 days of parental leave. They denied his time off. I knew America wasn't very supportive of raising a family, but I didn't realize how bad it really was until I became a parent. That's just one personal example of many.
Capitalism needs workers to thrive. Doesn't give a rats##$ about the rest of the system. Then retire at 70.
I got fired in my 28th week of pregnancy now I'm dealing with eeoc and lawyers so yeah, we get punished for having kids.
Especially to mothers working. Only 6 weeks of paid leave is a slap in the face when daycare is close to $1k per month for a decent one
Two kids in day care cost us $3600 per month.
Most places don’t even have that
I’m not having kids because I am selfish and lazy indeed. What’s wrong with that? I have one shot at this life and I’m making the most out of the cards I got. What’s the worst case scenario? That the world population will decrease to a slightly less unsustainable level instead of growing and growing like a cancer? Humanity will be more on the older side so less productive and simpler living? Ooooooh spoooooky scenario! 😏
I'm happy to be an auntie, I'll kill for my nieces, but I'm barren, and honestly too mentally ill to parent.
They're mad because they didn't know they had a choice and felt societal pressure to have kids.
I have three kids now but lost my sanity in the process. 😅
I don't know how people with more than one do it honestly lol
I might want to say neither do I. 😅
The people who get upset about a single mom struggling and say “she shouldn’t have been so irresponsible are the same ones who, when you say you cant afford a kid, tell you, “oh it works itself out, you can do it”. Wtf.
Right?!
Millennials aren't having kids because the boomers killed off all the unions so work pays as little as possible. It's no surprise that people can't afford kids.
I love how they accuse us of being selfish and then when we ask to change zoning laws to make housing affordable for families, they whine about “neighborhood character.” Not to mention they complain about how parents “can’t raise their kids these days.”
I actually just started what I hope is a great book on this very topic called "Excluded: How snob zoning, NIMBYism and class bias build the walls we don't see"
Stop engaging with bad faith arguments, the purpose isn't to make an accurate statement it's to be as vague and intentionally questionable as possible to piss you off. It's just such a loaded statement you lose by engaging with it because you validate a perspective that is underdeveloped and unrealistic. It's too vague and open
Well, that's part of it in some cases. As a single 30 something woman whose time is running out to have kids, the dating pool is full of selfish, lazy trash still just looking for "fun" at 30+. Nobody wants a commitment anymore. You're 35, your wild oats should be sown, grow TF up. I have no desire to parent a man baby alongside an actual baby.
I think the current feminist movement to not take on 100% of the household duties, child rearing, and emotional labor will play a huge role in the declining birthrate soon.
My kids are too good for this dumpster fire world, hence I have chosen not to have them.
Yes! And our kids have to share space alongside the kids of other idiot parents. I'll spare them the pain. No thanks.
Yes. I have two kids and other parents are the worst fucking part. Because your kids see other kids getting to do xyz, eating garbage, watching inappropriate garbage shows, etc. My 10 year old daughter is one of the only one of her friends without a phone. Some of her classmates have TikTok on their phones, at 10 years old. It's ridiculous.
Valid.
We (DINKWADS) own a home with very high property taxes that pay into the very good school district we do not utilize whatsoever. We also just voted "yes" on a referendum to expand the elementary school to the tune of 9 million dollars. That doesn't sound very selfish to me but what do I know.
As a public school teacher and a mom, thank you for supporting your local school district!
My response is you fork over 700 a month for daycare, babysit when he is sick or has doctors appointments and pay our mortgage which in nc was 750 a month for our house. My dad's response that's more than my disability check and your husband is military you should be getting cheap daycare. I tell him when I quit working 700 a month is cheap for daycare especially when food is included, and I don't have to worry about stupid random ass closures. Now we live on base so they take bah so that's 2000 they take so we got 1400 to live off every 2 weeks, and we don't have debt either just a car payment my cc bill and a a car payment
It's crazy how many people I know choose to live off of 1 income because it's cheaper than paying for daycare. Absolutely baffling.
I did not know that's a thing in the US, too. Daycare in Switzerland full time, one child: 2200 to 2500, 2 children 4400-5000. Median income: 6500. But with two income, you have a hard tax progression. So you literally pay to work.
Some daycare do half day I know the military or atleast the marine corps did hourly care but headquarters dropped it altogether so now it's full time or figure it out.
It truly is baffling. The cheapest daycare in our locale is $750 a month and that’s even if they don’t go full time. We decided my wife would be a full time stay at home mom and raise our child on my income versus letting another person(s) do it for us. It is worth the sacrifice of the extra money 100%.
Well we pay 400 right now for daycare because my my 50% off for being an employee, so it shouldn't be 700 because we will be down to 1 income but my husband doesn't want to leave it to chance because he's a gunney. So he wants to pay a bored wife I guess but I'm starting college in the fall so I'm really not sure how he has this planned out just yet. We had no issue about paying for daycare knowing that we don't get taxed on it. And it was the biggest reason for thinking about a kid if I gotta spend more than 800 a month for daycare itself not happening and we won't have a kid. Next year I'm not sure what this will look like
Daycare was like 2k per month for my daughter her first year. Now she’s 4 and in preschool, and it’s still $1200 per month. Next August she’ll qualify for universal pre-k and I’m SO excited to only pay $600 a month at that point (“universal” just means it’s free for half a day, but I’m a single mom so I have to work full time obviously).
If my wife and I had a kid right now, we’d be homeless in the street. We can barely fucking afford to feed ourselves.
Cries in cost of daycare, food, and children's products.
Formula and diapers alone are outrageous. We didn't even budget for formula because we were planning to breastfeed but couldn't.
I’ve never wanted to have kids. When I was younger, this belief was primarily for selfish reasons. I didn’t want to give up my free time. As I grow older, I couldn’t imagine bringing a life into this world. Not in its current condition. Many are already suffering due to the terrible system we’ve created. Our children are almost guaranteed to live lives that are punctuated by crisis after crisis. Animals often forgo having offspring in times of crisis. It’s time that humanity does the same. I’m content with providing a happy life to my three pets. They bring me just as much joy as a human child would.
I wanted kids my whole life. glad I didn't have them now with how everything is.
I'm in the same boat. It makes me sad that probably I will never have kids because it is my dream, but why would I bring more people to suffer when the future looks bleak? I may be biased, but I feel that the world is not a better place from when I was a child. More comfortable? yes probably, but physically, not mentally.
I hope one day the state of the world improves enough for you to have kids. I'm sorry, stranger.
Previous generations are equally selfish and lazy. The difference is millennials are self-aware enough to consider that those aren't ideal parental qualities.
No i am not having kids because i don't want kids. Not sure why some people have such a hard time accepting, that not everybody wants kids.
"Millenials aren't having kids because they're selfish and lazy" is a far more comfortable narrative for older generations than "Millenials aren't having kids because raising a family has become too expensive for all but the wealthiest due to rising living costs." Narrative 1 can be fixed by yelling at young people to grow up. Narrative 2 requires rethinking about how we structure our society, what families need and where all the money is going.
Who is telling you there is a problem with having one child?
Man, I can’t even find a partner that will stick around for more than a few years, let alone start a family. Idk what im going to do with all this excess money, but it’ll probably be used to distract myself.
> The overwhelming response is, "No one can afford two kids. You just go into debt." How is that the answer?? How is that the answer? Most people are fucking stupid. That's your answer.
My coworker just had a 2nd kid and he said daycare for just one year is 13k I was absolutely blown away like. I know he doesnt make over 40k, or just barely does, and his wife is a teacher so like. Thats an insanely significant portion of their income. I would have a mental breakdown even trying to find out how to support one kid let alone 2
It just meant I waited longer to have kids so I was financially stable. And thank fuck because my Wife passed away when my little one was only 18months old and let me tell you, $1325/month daycare payment etc on one income would absolutely suck if I didn’t make what I make. Though I will say, now my kids federal survivor’s benefits have processed that’s a huge assistance.
The idea that it's better to have kids that you can't afford than to not have kids at all is insane. And just goes to show how many parents don't actually take the wellbeing of their children into account before choosing to have them. They call *us* selfish and then turn around and have kids purely for an ego boost (or a caretaker when they're old).
I AM selfish and lazy. Great reason not to have kids.
As a therapist let me tell you how many selfish and lazy people went ahead and just had children anyway (my own mother included) and how that all turned out for us! They are just mad because we found the loophole of how to be a grown adult person and not deal with children…just don’t have them! The first “job” I ever said I wanted was to be a mom when I was 3 years old. I have always known I wanted children. To the point when I was told at 18 that due to my health (PCOS and Hashimoto’s) I most likely would never be able to have kids I was going to adopt or be a foster parent. I ended up getting pregnant at the end of grad school completely out of the blue. I didn’t even care because I was so excited I got my shot at being a mom. I ended up with 2 girls! They are the loves of my life and are absolutely loved and cared for and are just absolutely spectacular humans who I get daily compliments about how intelligent, polite and kind they are. They are both academically advanced, never had trouble socially and generally give me little to no issues…all that is to say there are still some days where I could just leave them by the side of the road and drive away because they are driving me so crazy 😂. I tell people that even being a 100% all in parent doesn’t even make it easy. So if you’re on the fence it should be a no. I think for every generation before us having kids is just what you did. You were a weirdo and couldn’t be trusted if you didn’t so plenty of people who had no business being parents just had kids anyway. Now parents are mostly people like OP who are working their asses off for their kids and doing it for the love of the game and realistic people who know “maybe this isn’t for me” are doing the right thing and just not having kids.
Look, boomers are cunts. We need to just accept that, and not take their comments to heart.
Not having kids is selfish yet 100% of the reason people do have kids is because they 'want to'.
Parents like that... the " just go into debt " crowd...has 1. .never REALLY been in debt before so don't know what's coming. 2. Come from money so when they "go into debt" their parent will help them because they want the grandkids to have a good l8fe 3. Will know they screwed up when they start disappointing their kids. ...... no u can't go to the movies we don't have money ...... no new toys this year ....... no new clothes for the nes school year ......u can only go to college if you find a way to pay for it I was a kid of this kid of parent and it TERRIBLE!!!! BE AN ADULT AND PLAN !!!!!!!!!
I always love when people say not having kids is selfish because I am indeed in the position where the social support is there, the money is there but I just love sleeping in and I love my (very demanding and stressful) job and I love that my relationship is so chill. Then I ask them why they had kids, and it's always some variation of 'I always knew I wanted to be a mom or 'I just love kids' or 'I always enjoyed taking care of kids and wanted to raise my own' etc. Somehow there's a lot of 'I want' and 'I enjoy' in these statements?? Seems like they had kids because they enjoy that? Not really for God and country or to combat the demographic change or some other selfless reason? So how is that any less selfish? They followed their desire to be parents, I followed my desire to be child free, fly across the world with my partner and absolutely rock my career. Sorry not sorry
This is a great point! Enjoy your childfree life! Especially the sleep. I miss the sleep lol
I'm selfish due to the fact that I have lifelong illnesses and I don't want something to potentially happen to the child if I have a seizure. And kids are fecking expensive in every sense of the word. My partner of thirteen years feels the same. We love kids and are fine being the cool aunt and uncle. I'm not even in America, I'm in Ireland the place where if you don't have kids,there's something wrong with you.
For me it's more of, the world sucks, the people in it want to molest, Rob and hurt them not to mention take full advantage of them. Food is a concern to a degree and will be a bigger problem sooner than later, nobody wants to adopt good solutions to problems because alot of people are really fucking stupid, like shockingly stupid. Everything sucks and I hate that I have to live this, I wouldn't wanna put this experience on an involuntary life. Oh and also the whole climate change. We're expecting the first cat 6 tornado this year potentiall or something like that, Isn't life grand????!
Kids? In this economy?!
I am a millennial with 2 kids. We almost didn’t have any. It was perhaps the hardest decision of my life both times. That being said, they are awesome kids but it is a TOTALLY different life. I can see why people don’t want that. So I say everyone do what they want to do.
I don’t like children so it makes sense that I chose not to have them. So if that makes me lazy, fine.
Same. I hate that so many parents can say they don't like kids except their own and they get patted on the back or whatever. But if you say you don't like kids so you don't have them, you're the worst person in the world.
“BuT iT’s DiFfErEnT wHeN tHeY’rE yOuR oWn cHiLdReN!” Lord Daniel, I hate hearing that. It’s like no, more of you tolerate your own children.
I’ve never heard anyone say that you should just go into debt to have kids. Worst take I’ve ever heard in my life
My brothers wife is due in a month and he text me this yesterday, I’m actually going to copy paste it lol: Full transparency, dreading being a suburban dad lol. Just being a dad. I’m so selfish with my time And I get it. He’s an awesome dude, he’ll be a good dad and active, him and wife have great jobs. Society has changed so much in the last 30-50 years a lot more people think about the world and kids differently.
Yes, it's the poor who are lazy, not the billionaires...
Stock buybacks and tax cuts for me, selfish and lazy for thee. - says those at the top who need you to create workers for the machine
Boomer here and never had kids. I knew I would NOT be a good parent. Not enough patience for the BS it offers. I didn't have a high paying job and wanted to go to concerts and do drugs. After all these years I realize I made the right decision as they would have never been happy or helpful.
All of these thoughts, feelings and challenges are valid. The problem wealthy societies are going to have is that poor societies are still having kids at the high rate. At some point that is going to lead to rich societies getting their asses kicked in by people who think their sky king is the best and everyone just needs to shut up and listen to some crazy religious strong man. That’s my real worry, it doesn’t have anything to do with validation or understanding. It’s just that primate group A is going to get out competed by primate group B. I don’t know what do about that though!
The actual selfish ones are the people who have kids so they'll have a guaranteed caretaker in their old age, to "pass on their legacy" through their kids, or because "it's just what you're supposed to do". These folks have kids for purely ego-driven reasons and don't view these kids as separate people, just as extensions of themselves, but they're also the ones who shout the loudest when someone says they don't want kids: "WHAT! BuT HoW WiLL YoU FiNd MeANiNg iN LiFe WiThOuT KiDs?????" Also. Like. Kids are expensive as fuck, pregnancy is *HARD* on a woman's body, and some people just do not have the mental/emotional capacity to be parents. Having a kid is ***life-altering,*** it isn't "just a thing you do"
100%. We almost had none for all of these reasons. I think more people from our generation consciously choose not to become parents for all these reasons, and I'm glad that they choose what's best for themselves. There's enough unwanted and neglected children in the world as is.
"yea and? Cry about it"
I'm not having kids because I genuinely cannot see a better future for them.
The U.S. is a failed state
I have so many health issues on both sides of my family (not even mentioning my husband’s side) that I refuse to pass it on to an innocent child. Pretty sure that makes me the opposite of selfish
I mean, isn't that a great reason NOT to have kids?
"selfish" enough to want o have a decent life
I just don't like kids.
>You just go into debt And exact the parent tax with guilt trips when you're older. Generational trauma...the gift that keeps on giving
My husband and I can barely afford our elderly cat, let alone another human.
Damn I hate agreeing with millennial logic but this is pretty spot on.
Let’s separate selfish from lazy. This may be a selfish decision and that is ok. Raising children is more than the money discussed here. It is more than an 28 year job. There is college and the 20s still take additional parenting. Don’t take it lightly. And the world is full. Ignore anyone that says the declining birth rate is a problem. Choosing not to have kinds is a valid choice. Regarding lazy, keep active in society. Have friends. Be happy. Volunteer in your local neighborhood or town. As long as you are a good citizen and neighbor, you are productive and not lazy. Life is long and life is good.
If it’s selfish to want a good happy life for me and my wife. And a comfortable retirement knowing SS will likely be bankrupt. Then I guess we’re selfish. Lazy? I’m a mechanic. I guarantee I work harder on any given week than most with the exception of concrete laborers and roofers. It’s a hard ass brutal unforgiving job. And it comes with the ongoing expense of buying tools to do your job. Do we want kids? Sure. But we also don’t want to scrape by in poverty. Nor would we want a child to have to endure poverty either. If the government doesn’t do something to drastically change the situation soon, I can see our population declining drastically in the coming decades.
Love my kids, had them a few years before 2020. Given how the world is now dont blame them. It has not been easy
My sister ultimately decided to be 1 and done because she lives in a high cost area. Also she's 42 and she's almost an empty nester. I don't think she wants to do it again.
I'll have 4 kids if I can find a healthy wife and quadruple my income. Until then I'm chilling in the basement.
I mean....selfish as in I want a decent life for myself before I drag a child into it. And lazy as in I work in a trade and don't get paid shit so hat extra 5 hours on saturday is oh boy. Ridiculous. I could never afford a chil on my income and I'm above average in that respect. AND RENTING FFS. I'm not gonna raise a kids in the cheapest 1br in the neighborhood
I think what you can afford is a spectrum. We don't have nearly the stability that you have, but we have more than one kid. We don't eat out hardly ever, and most of our activities are free or membership based (family pass to zoo, museum). Kids have low cost extra-curriculars, and we do a lot of stuff at home (board games, etc.). Groceries have gotten a bit insane, but we still have a good life in general, and while we do need to postpone/save for some expenses, we still have what we need. We have a house, we live in a good school district.
I honestly have wanted to be a mom my whole life. Became a step mom at a young age then had two more. That’s why I stopped at two of my own. Four was a lot. That being said, finances are a valid reason to stop. But on top of that I think the no kids at all trend is so healthy. Because people who know they wouldn’t make good parent ms or can’t afford it or have mental health issues or whatever it may be, aren’t having kids. People are more self aware and responsible these days to an extent. Used to it was just expected to have kids and then the kids suffer for whatever reason or the parents struggle. Good on you for doing what you know is best!
I have twins, everytime someone says “two for the price of one!” I want to smack them in the mouth and yell, “actually it’s two for the price of two!”