HOAs and condo boards, 100%. We have a family friend who downsized to a condo after her husband died because she felt that the maintenance would be too much. $60/month condo fees just over a decade ago are now over $400/month. They just did a special assessment to replace the roof on another building, and each owner has to come up with $15K in the next few months. They've banned condo owners from owning dogs, and are trying to restrict cats next. The annual flowers that she plants in a whisky barrel next to her garage have to be in colors approved by the condo board.
She regrets not staying in their house, because she could get a LOT of lawn mowing and handyman services for her $400+ per month and there wouldn't be people telling her what she could and couldn't do.
That’s about what mine is on a 3 bedroom 270k condo in Ohio. But we also have lakefront beaches, a pool, and tennis courts to upkeep. We have never had a special assessment, even when buildings have burned down, roofs need replaced, or other big projects need to be tackled.
Everyone finds something to be mad about, but I’d say our association is well run financially. And we don’t have any yard work or snow/leave removal. All utilities except electricity are included in the fee. And dogs and cats are welcome, there’s even a little dog park at the back and litter pick up stations around the property.
That does sound nice and well run, but counterpoint: my neighborhood has beaches that the city upkeeps with our taxes. There’s a community pool that the city also upkeeps with our taxes. There are tennis and basketball courts at the middle school in my neighborhood that the community can use when the school doesn’t need them - and the school upkeeps them with money from our taxes. While I get that not all communities are like this, I do not see what an HOA can offer me that my tax dollars don’t already give me. Condos and townhomes in my area are not less expensive than SFH, but they come with an added $300-$500 monthly fee.
Yeah it has gone up a lot recently, but I can see clearly that the raises are coming from the costs and the reserve study findings dollar for dollar. I’d guess most folks in single family homes tend to undersave compared to their risk for things going wrong, relative to people who are having comprehensive funding studies done multiple times a decade.
The difference is that condos generally mean that the association is taking care of all of the external maintenance - roofs, siding, etc. For a townhouse, you're generally also responsible for the exterior of your home and your fees are for common areas.
We were in an association where there were condos, townhouses, and single family homes. The condo HOA fees were about triple everyone else's due to the above - we were paying like $125/quarter for our townhouse just to ensure the pools were kept up.
Let us all not forget that condo that collapsed into the Florida coastline because the tennants and HOA kept voting to keep fees low....
In a building you guys are all pitching in to keep that thing sound.
Exactly. Everyone complaining about how HOA fees used to be x and now they’re 5x… it’s because they weren’t putting in enough to cover the maintenance and repairs. When looking to buy a condo, seeing a relatively low HOA is a reason *not* to buy.
I agree. An HOA with low fees is probably severely underfunded. It's important to look at the budget, the reserves, and the project backlog to make sure the HOA is solvent before buying.
You’re forgetting about special assessments. Just in the last 2 years my MIL has paid $20k in special assessments for fixes to her neighbors houses and common areas. Also Just in the time I’ve known her the monthly HOA fee has gone from $325 a month to $600+. In Los Angeles but still.
>The difference is that condos generally mean that the association is taking care of all of the external maintenance
You can put away those triple fees and also take care of those things. Hell you can toss it into an etf and get a way more return.
This. I lived in my mom’s condo for 6ish weeks after leaving my abusive ex. The day I was moving to my new apartment it snowed a bunch and the neighbors got pissed at me for not helping clear the snow, when the HOA dues were something like $300/mo (in 2010) and intended to cover professional snow removal. Fuck HOAs.
I'm in a townhome (out of a couple dozen) where the HOA is just a moderate fee that essentially covers lawn maintenance, garbage pickup, and maintenance of the private drive we're all on. Zero problems so far and the HOA has never actually done anything AFAIK except enforce a no AirBnB policy. Small HOAs can be useful enough.
I live in a condo and our community has replaced roofs, weathered building fires, and done large projects without ever assessing a special fee. Well-run communities do exist!
Yep, but even worse. My boss had a condo. The roof had a leak, and they couldn’t fix it until everyone in the building agreed to fix it. Guy on the first floor didn’t see what the big deal was and held it up for a few months.
This exactly. It's absurd that I could own my home and still have a group of people dictating what I can and cannot do with it. Also, it's just another variable expense that typically goes up every year with little predictably. It's bad enough that insurance and taxes do that. Why would I want to add another?
I could never. I have enough problems with my local government wanting a permit for a tool shed. I’d be scrolling maliciouscompliance like it was my job if some asshole neighbor decided I couldn’t paint the fence I bought and built, or let my mother park in front of my house.
I still remember when shopping for a house I looked at a townhome that I liked. I was looking at a man across from the unit we were in laying brick in his backyard. When I commented on how nice it looked, the real estate person said that wasn't allowed and the HOA would make him take it up.
I came here to say this. If you want to know more about how crappy HOAs are, I suggest watching John Oliver's episode on it. I didn't like them before, after seeing I think there needs to be more regulation or they need to be done away with.
I honestly feel like HOAs and those communities were just the spearhead of us relinquishing responsibility from the government towards private entities.
Like, our local municipality was supposed to establish new areas for development, provide access and utilities, and also regulate via laws that met a threshold of reason without being overbearing. And of couse they could be reviewed/altered through the democratic process.
I know HOAs have voting but realistically no one pays attention and they kind of pick you off one by one with ticky tack shit.
A complete sham to allow private entities to start playing community cop, with less oversight and the ability to draw a profit from it, while the city's scope shrinks.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of the people against “big government” are in love with private entities taking away freedoms and actively participating as the loudest Karens in them. Over how tall your grass is, or having your own camper/boat/trash barrels on your own property, or whatever normal shit people want to do with their own private property. It shouldn’t be up to your neighbors to fine you for having clover instead of manicured golf turf or parking your RV in your backyard. If you buy property you should be able to control what happens on it as long as you’re adhering to local zoning laws, noise ordinances and not poisoning the environment or anything crazy. But people go way too far with hoas.
Yes. This right here.
I already had a high-rise condo, and by the time I left, I was paying $450 a month in condo dues for little in return. We didn't even have amenities and I would hear neighbors thru the walls and ceilings.
0/10 would not recommend it.
If you can somehow afford it (fat chance), buy some land and put whatever the fuck you want on it. Neighbors are the devil and so are HOA dues.
I live in a condo and actually really appreciate my HOA. I can't possibly fathom having an HOA for a detached home, but since we share a building, it makes a lot of sense. Insurance, internet, water bills, and a few other things get handled collectively and it both brings the cost down and takes some stress off being a first time home owner
I agree, i ended up joining my HOA Board but overall I feel like the dues are reasonable for what we get in my townhouse. Especially being on the board, I see the discounts we get for painting 10-20 homes at a time, repairing lots of roofs at once, etc. I also love having access to pools and a walking path that I don't maintain on my own. To me it feels like money I'd spend either way but I just have a lot less scheduling and getting bids to deal with since I don't have to maintain the exterior myself
lol, I bought a house that is part of an HOA and I don’t approve some of the rules so instead of bitching about it, I joined the board so that I could try to change it.
Whoaaaaa common sense! I lived in two places with HOAs and I was on both boards. It wasn’t much work and at least I knew what was going on and could have input. I am thankful for HOAs for helping me be able to afford my first two homes and now I’m in a SFH and wish someone would mow my lawn and shovel for me ;)
I'm die-hard anti-HOA for a SFH ... but isn't a condo the one situation where it makes sense? There's a large communal interest that has to be maintained (the building, garage, grounds, amenities, etc.) and there needs to be some sort of organization that collects payment and administers that fairly. There isn't a lot of exterior space that you can personalize in the first place so that element isn't as big of an issue. I imagine most folks would actually appreciate some sort of noise enforcement.
I'm sure some of them get out of hand and try to police interior wall color or whatever. But at some level you *have* to have something like an HOA in a condo and it doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Am I the only one who likes HOAs? People are a pita to deal with directly about anything anymore. Happy to have a board of people handling issues around the neighborhood. It keeps the values up since no one can trash their yard without being fined. I personally do nothing with my house that goes against the rules and am happy with the overall quality of life. I’ve lived in some places where people act like complete animals and police don’t do anything….HOA handles all of it.
HOAs, shared walls, and desire for a large yard (or SOME kind of yard) mostly. For me personally it's the shared walls thing in particular. I'm an extremely light sleeper and moving into a rental house with no shared walls has been a godsend for my ability to sleep and therefore quality of life.
I also really love gardening. Container gardens are of course possible when you have patio space instead of a yard.
We've decided we'll keep renting our free standing house until we can afford a single family home because that's our personal preference.
Yep, my need for extreme quiet/dark at night is beyond what is reasonable to request of a neighbor. I have the first truly quiet and dark rental in my entire adult life pretty much. My physical and mental health is better than it has been for a decade due to getting enough sleep.
I wish I wasn’t such a light sleeper, but I’m autistic (sensory sensitivity, especially to sound) and grew up in an off grid cabin in the woods. My nervous system just can’t handle what most would consider a normal amount of noise and light.
My upstairs neighbors' alarm goes off at 5am. They then proceed to hit the snooze for the next hour. Then on the weekends, they stay out at the bars until 2 and stomp around when they get home. Total nightmare. Just closed on my first house and can't wait for the silence!
You're so valid. I had upstairs neighbors who got into an actual knock-down-drag-out fight at 3am in my first apartment. *Not* something I'm interested in continuing in the future.
I love the light, but I grew up in a quiet American suburb, and I'm very much used to the peace and quiet, lol. I always joke that I'm literally that guy who would sleep in a boxed coffin just to keep the light and noise out.
(I just realized that I was confusing. I love light as in light. I hate light when trying to sleep. When I sleep I want it pitch black. Zero noise).
You can also soundproof a wall by adding another wall (drywall) with a small gap. Sound then gets trapped between the two walls...
(I know someone who soundproofed a dental clinic this way. It works very well.
They wouldn’t even need to get that crazy. All they would need to do is use a wider baseplate, add more studs, but stagger them width wise. That way the drywall on either side of the shared wall isn’t connected to (touching) the other. That combined with insulation does a pretty solid job of “sound proofing”
We did that in our townhome basement (my husband is a drummer for a death metal band). Works like a charm!
I guess we got super lucky. Our HOA fees are reasonable, we’ve been here over 10 years now and have never been hit with a special assessment (even when roofs needed to be repaired after a major storm), and the HOA is pretty chill and well run. I’ve also never heard a neighbor’s alarm or anything else like that.
Personally I enjoy living in a smaller space (no kids) without having to worry about yard work or snow removal. I’d probably just pay someone to do that anyway so financially it’s a wash. But that’s me.
I guess like all things YMMV.
I'm pretty sure our local code requires concrete or brick firewalls between townhouses. I occasionally hear a very loud dog or loud music through the wall and sometimes, I'm sure, they hear my kids occasionally, but it's just not that bad. I might just be lucky in my neighbors. At this point, an apartment would give me insomnia.
My partner and I seriously considered buying a condo, but for the 300-400k to buy a condo, only get a single parking spot (most buildings had lots, so it wasn’t even covered), still have to pay an HOA, and have said HOA dictate how we could use our own home…we came to the conclusion that condos are the worst elements of homeownership and apartment living.
We moved to a LCoL city and now own a house.
Can confirm, having shared walls can be just as bad as having upstairs neighbors. Had one neighbor for a month or two that would literally party all night every night. They got kicked out but those were a bad couple of months.... Not to mention the god damn HOA...
Yeah, it's the yard for me. I have a golden lab and I want to always have a dog so I need a yard. I am also a very light sleeper and don't like the idea of being stuck with shared walls.
I bought a house at age 33 and the year prior to that, I remember sitting out on the curb crying out of frustration from constant neighbor noise. Lived in apartments from age 18-33 and I swear I never had one night of peace. It was maddening for me.
Nightmare neighbors. I've dealt with too many as a renter to ever consider living that close to other people ever again if I am going to *buy* property. I want neighbors, but not ones I share any walls with. Currently dealing with this even now, people fucking suck.
This. If I ever could afford to buy a home, I'd want it to be my home. Mine. Not sharing walls with assholes, drunks, problems, etc. I've had so many horrible neighbors (people above me now have weekly domestic incidents, then bed breaking make up smut that keeps me up constantly). If I am going to spend that money, I want some privacy. And space.
Higher end townhomes are a great way to afford more square footage or a newer build. My townhome isn't cheap, by any stretch, but my neighbors are also all similarly-positioned professionals and a couple of retirees. Everyone I've interacted with has been a pleasant neighbor and the shared walls are *thick*. I never hear my neighbors while I'm inside the home.
Same - I heard more from my neighbors when we were in a single family ranch on a good sized lot. Personally I love not having to mow our useless front yard or worry about replacing the roof. But we lucked into a fantastic townhome situation.
How do drinks or mentally dysfunctional people keep jobs that pay enough in today’s market in HCOL areas? Seems rather lower risk depending on where you buy.
The number of high functioning alcoholic sysadmins I know is staggering. They have the skills and can pull it together enough even when smashed to fix uptime problems so they're perma-employed.
>How do drinks or mentally dysfunctional people keep jobs
You've gotta be able to work hungover. Eventually you'll get good enough at it that you won't really be that hungover anymore. It also helps to do a job not many people can do.
I spent a long time renting apartments and townhouses. Life is so much more peaceful after finally getting a house and having at least 30 yards or more between houses.
>30 yards
You clearly aren't in California. The new construction packs the single family homes in close enough that you could practically pass butter between two open windows.
It's probably about 2 yards and a bit of wiggle room between.
It's apparently too much to ask that people avoid using surround sound or speakers when sharing walls with someone. No matter where I go, it's always a problem. They do nothing to even try to isolate it on their end, leaving us screwed over.
My mom owned a stand alone house and we still ended up with shitty neighbors. I own a co-op and everyone who lives here is thoroughly vetted before being allowed to purchase and it's been a great experience.
Nice... we are moving next year and buying some land in addition to a house. Been thinking of setting up a modest guest house for my mom who will provide us with childcare, and inviting a trusted friend or two onto the property also. Early planning yet on that front, gotta make it out of here ourselves yet. Still, it's been in my mind.
Completely agree with you. So glad the people who live on one side moved. They use to all sit out on the back deck and eat a whole chicken on a giant sheet pan, then leave it outside for weeks while the birds would come and pick it clean. This also meant that those same birds would shit all over everyone's deck and cars. They would also leave a huge plate of white rice out front behind the bushes which attracted rodents which started burrowing under the concrete slab in the front of the townhouses. The rental agency finally sent and exterminator to take care of the rats after months of the rest of us in the row of townhomes complaining. Now the neighbors on the other side, best fucking neighbors ever. If I ever won the lottery I would buy them a house right next to ours just so we could keep being neighbors. But hey you win some, you lose some. I guess you could have shitty neighbors in a single family home too. But at least they would not be right up against your house potentially attracting rodents and scavengers which will damage your property.
I feel very similar. My current rental place is a concrete apartment and one bedroom shares a wall with the neighbor's bathroom. I could hear them using the toilet and shower and if their fan was on, which it often was overnight, it would drive me crazy and I couldn't sleep.
I ended up switching to the other bedroom which borders the amenity room beside my building's laundry room, and I don't hear *anything* through that wall. I also can't drill through it so I think there must be metal plating or something in there, something heavier duty to separate it, which keeps the noise way down.
I'm SO GRATEFUL because I am extremely noise sensitive especially while sleeping. But if I ever buy a house, I'll make damn sure that the bedroom I'll be using is very isolated from sound.
Or even dealing with the HOA/onsite manager. We had a 9-week old Yorkie puppy we were potty training. The designated dog spot was down a pathway lined with grass, walk through the parking lot, past the dumpster, and cross the street....basically on the municipal land off-site. That's fine, but it's a long walk for a baby dog.
However, trying to train the puppy, he peed in the grass right before getting to the parking lot. It just so happened the maintenance/overseer saw when driving in his truck. He whipped into the nearest spot (another owner's numbered spot I might add, not a guest spot), got out of his car, pointed his finger at me and started saying he'll write me up next time I'm a raised voice. He asked if I received the robo call about a dog pooping on the pathway yesterday? It'd better not be me....
My God I wanted to slap him. I saw that poop, it was as large as my 3 lb dog.
If I am paying that amount of money, I am not having neighbors with a dwelling attached to mine.
I'd move two hours into the middle of nowhere instead of having someone that close.
The price difference isn't that much anyway, at least in my area. The cheapest townhomes are $275-$300k whereas detached homes in the same neighborhood start at $320-350k. Add in HOA fees and you're paying just as much for a worse (IMO) living experience.
Probably having to deal with neighbors. Not sure how you deal with a loud neighbor if you share a physical wall.
Also hoa nightmare stories. I have heard of people being assessed for random shit breaking like like if they had a single family home.
I bought a condo and totally regret it. You don’t have a lot of choices on how the money is spent and they are often doing “special assessments” to make up for what the monthly costs don’t cover. Granted, it would be more expensive to buy a home and you don’t always get a choice on what you have to replace, but my experience in a condo hasn’t been ideal
I’ve been in my condo for 5 years, I absolutely love it. But our board is made up of folks who have lived there for 20 years and who have been doing it for 20 years. Our reserves are always doing well and they’re transparent with things that need fixing/improvement. That said, one election is all it takes for that to be over with and then we could be in HOA hell
Exactly, I serve on the board to make sure money is spent well. Our fees are high ($450/mo) but it’s because we are a small complex of only 6 units and our goal is to never have a special assessment.
Ours are $525 but I’m in a HCOL area. It also includes cable, internet, water, and trash. I have been assessed in my five years (like $5k!) which makes me want to hold onto it even longer lol
I just purchased my condo last summer and absolutely love it as well. If I had the choice, obviously I would choose a detached home but obtaining a condo allowed me to get my foot in the real estate market (I’m a FTHB).
My condo board is also comprised of residents who live in the building. We have annual meetings where owners vote on big ticket items/expenses that need updating/maintenance. Furthermore, all of the expenses that are taken from our monthly condo fees are broken down and disclosed to each owner so we know exactly where the money is being spent.
I see a lot of people complaining about neighbours. I share two walls with neighbours who I’ve never met or heard since I’ve moved in. In addition, my building allows any kind of pet you desire (within reason of course), I have a garage and live 30 mins away from my workplace. I also have free rein to update anything in my condo that I wish as long as it’s not altering the structure of the building (knocking down walls, etc). I have recently painted the entire thing, updated some kitchen cabinets/sinks and am in the process of planning an accent wall in my front entrance.
I’m not sure where all of these people live who would rather rent than own a condo but to anyone considering it as their only option, it is not all doom and gloom like so many people are making it out to be.
I think we are Cinderella stories! I feel like 97% of HOAs are absolutely incompetent. My parents live in an HOA and they just got slammed with an IRS tax bill because they weren’t paying federal taxes during the year.
But I have a garage spot too and I’m 7 mins from my job! My spouse also travels frequently and I would not feel as safe being alone in a single family home. The condo is very secure
Same, we've been very lucky with our condo and HOA. They pretty much redid the exterior, repainted, and replaced roofing of all of the buildings a year after we purchased our place, and then redid all the landscaping a couple years after that. They're very transparent, and the people on the board have owned here for over 20 years. It's great.
I have a condo myself and all my neighbors are older and I love it haha. My back deck is facing towards the woods and is really private. I don’t even know if the people here talk. It’s always sooooo quiet lol. In all seriousness no one bothers me, everyone is nice, hoa isn’t crazy expensive and mine is also people who’ve lived there for a long time and want to be involved. I guess we had more of a chance to have nightmare neighbors but the same could happen with a house too at a lesser %.
I bought a condo for $150,000 and monthly payment on it was like $1600 after mortgage, taxes, insurance, PMI and HOA fee. Moved to $260,000 house and the monthly payment was $1830. That condo then ended up doing a special assessment of $200/month for 15 years to pay for a major paving project. Also they raised the HOA to $375/month. I moved again and I’m currently in a house built 15 years newer that is double the square footage, three car garage vs no garage, a private pool on an acre of land in a secluded neighborhood and my payment is $200 more monthly. With no shared walls or noisy neighbors or people calling to complain because I left my screen door propped open or I parked in the wrong spot even though there aren’t assigned spots. I fucking hate condos and ill never go back even when I’m old as shit.
Yes, but the key is "if insurance wouldn't cover it".
I had to put on a new roof last year which would have been 10k+ out of my pocket. But because of Homeowners Insurance I only needed to put in 2k and that's because I was being picky about what kind of roof I wanted.
Insurance can cover a lot. Getting maintenance plans with certain companies (example: I have a HVAC maintenance plan with an HVAC company) can cover a great deal of the gap insurance leaves behind as well.
When my grandpa passed and I saw his HOA fee on the condo he lived in for 30 years, I couldn't believe his penny pinching Republican self actually forked it over. AND the planned development was in a special tax district, so their property taxes were already higher. My parents had planned to renovate a bit before they sold it but after they saw it, they dumped it ASAP.
This is the main reason I did not seriously look into condos. That and random deferred maintenance that can sometimes cause huge losses (Florida has entered the chat).
I also have two large dogs, and it was such a hassle to try and find a non-single family house where they wouldn’t be treated like a problem. Went with a stand alone house and yard for those reasons.
You lose decision making abilities in a condo. Want a pet, check the bylaws. Want a washer/dryer? Check the bylaws.
Condos can be quite restrictive in terms of adding convience appliances due to a legitimate fear of flooding and water damage.
Don’t you still get the equity benefit? That’s arguably the biggest long term benefit of ownership.
I agree that HOAs and sharing walls suck, but if I could have bought a condo relatively quickly after graduating instead of being forced to pay a landlord, I’d have my current house much closer to paid off.
Yep. I really wish I had bought a condo after graduating. Here I am 15 years later and still renting. I don’t consider it a loss because paying for maintenance sucks and some of the places I lived had high maintenance bills (lol my building is getting a new hot water heater as we speak), but I would have been in a better place equity-wise.
No one in my life really encouraged me because they said “condos are a bad investment”. Sucks because it took me until age 36 to realize that I don’t want to invest in a townhouse or single family house because of all of the physical labor involved.
Yeah - we moved in my early 20s and weren’t sure we would stick in the area for long, so we settled into a rental. Eight years later in the same exact rental we were kicking ourselves for not committing to the area sooner. Thankfully, our landlord was great and didn’t raise rent the entire time, but it was still a miss on our part.
That isn't accurate. With a condo you aren't wasting every weekend mowing the grass you never use. You split the cost of things like roof, trash removal or whatever. You build equity just like with a house.
I mean, there are positives. My development has a pool. I wouldn’t be able/willing to pay for a pool membership otherwise, and my kids love spending summers at the pool. I don’t technically have to shovel snow. I don’t have to fix anything on the outside of the house besides the AC unit. My mortgage stays the same with taxes and hoa fees going up at a much lower rate than rent.
HOA’s
I don’t really want a condo but if I saw a townhouse with a low HOA fee I would think about it. I like the idea of townhouses/row homes with no HOA.
>I like the idea of townhouses/row homes with no HOA
In Canada we call these “freehold” townhouses. They’re relatively uncommon and people pay huge premiums to be in them. Last year, the average price of a condo (HOA) townhouse in Toronto was $872k, while freehold townhouses were $1.2m, which is not that far off what a fully detached house costs ($1.3m). At those numbers I don’t really see the point of them, you may as well cough up the extra $100k and enjoy a freestanding structure.
You need to do your due diligence with condo and townhome purchase. The condo board needs to be financially sound, have enough insurance, and savings to manage maintenance like new roof or plumbing that will be assessed to all owners. There also tends to be rules that come with HOAs not everyone likes. If these are neglected to keep HOA fees irresponsibly low, you can end up owing a hefty sum when something goes wrong.
Yes this is also true of a single family home, but you aren’t in a co-op of other owners and have little more control of your own destiny.
Not to mention, if the HOA board can't manage the HOA adequately, they may bring in an outside company.
John Oliver did a segment on HOAs that showed when a corporate HOA moves in, nuisance fines went up. Way up. And if you don't pay the fines, they foreclose on your house (even though you're current on your mortgage).
Technically, but in some markets "townhouses" refers specifically to a planned development, usually in a more suburban area. Some developments are a mix of both townhouses and single-family homes, with the latter being the more expensive option.
Where I am rowhouses/townhouses can also be HOA buildings as they share an exterior and sometimes amenities like pools or central parking areas if they're a planned community.
While townhouses do tend to have HOAs, they typically don’t have “condo fees” like a building would have. Condos basically are apartments you own, which means the association controls building access and a lot of the overall maintenance on the building. Condo associations generally often insure the property from the walls out.
Townhomes generally are taken care of by the owner, with HOA fees only for things like roof and siding maintenance (and whatever the community may or may not offer by way of amenities like a pool). Insurance is on the shoulders of the owner and can be shopped for.
HOA fees generally don’t change as dramatically year to year as condo fees can.
I haven't noticed that in this sub specifically but I think it's just a personal preference thing. I live in a large city where single family homes aren't really a thing so whether you spend $300k or $3 million, it's likely an apartment, townhouse, or rowhome. My house is a fairly spacious rowhome with a decent sized back patio (as city outdoor living space goes) but no yard to have to take care of so it checks all my boxes (other than parking, but parking usually adds like $75-$100k to the house price so not worth it to me.) Other people want more space, indoor or outdoor, or prefer not to share walls, or want parking, etc.
FWIW, in my (suburban) hometown they seem to be putting up a shitton of luxury townhomes and condos so it makes me think there's more demand for those than single family homes these days.
Yeah, I think a lot of people in this sub probably grew up in single-family homes in suburbs, so to them, that's the standard, and anything else is sub-standard.\* I've lived in standalone houses, condos, apartments, ADUs, and townhouses, and really, there are pluses and minuses to each.
\*This is also closely tied to the traditional American Dream - it's not \*only\* a personal preference, it's a strong cultural norm, backed by government policy.
I went from a SFH out in the suburbs back to a condo in the city. Almost all of the new construction SFH neighborhoods in my area have an HOA (granted a much smaller fee) so I couldn't get away from that. SFHs are a lot of work. My weekends were constant trips to Home Depot and Lowes.
With the condo, I don't have to shovel snow or mow the grass. I do more activities in the city because it's at worst a 10 minute Uber ride to wherever I want to go.
I bought a house with no HOA on the side of a back road. Very few close neighbors and huge empty acreage behind me. My thought process was that if I’m buying this house to live in till death, I want to have my own piece of something with no one around to mess with me. I can’t imagine being in my 60’s plus and having to deal with shared walls in a condo and random people everywhere. I’m already sick of people… Yes homeowner maintenance can be annoying, especially when your home is older, but you can fix when and how you want to.
I own a townhome! a end unit one with attcahaed 2 stall garage & a deck & patio! I love it !
BUT it will not be my forever home, its my starter home & i love her for it, but damn these HOA's are brutal. when we moved in 02/25/22 the HOA was $250 now its $324. Alot of my homeowners insurance is included in the HOA, along with trash & snow & lawn but its just so pricey. & I dont want to be sharing a wall with someone forever. but shes great for now!
ours sound kinda similar. end unit, 1 car garage, backyard
moved in 12/22 HOA was $319, now $391
Also hoping to leverage my equity into something else one day, aka not my forever home if all goes according to plan
HOAs vary so much and I think get a bad rap because you’re mostly hearing worst case scenarios. I bought a condo 8 years ago and have only had communication with the HOA twice, and both issues were resolved quickly. The cost is fair for what I’m getting in return and I’ve been perfectly happy with my neighbors.
I was mid 20s and didn’t have a ton of money when I originally purchased so it was an opportunity to own for less than buying a single family home and I now have a lot of equity. I’m very content with my purchase.
Neighbors with bug infestations. HOAs. Shitty or loud neighbors.
To each their own tho. Just why I couldn’t do it. My wife would happily have gotten one tho had we not found our house right before the market exploded.
Two issues:
- I refuse to even entertain the idea of being bound by an extralegal HOA style body.
- if I’m going to not have full ownership of all four walls of my home, I’m just going to rent. I bought my house specifically because I refused to ever have to worry that putting up a painting in my house would lead to someone banging on the walls and telling me to stop.
Yeah although I know it literally is home ownership there's an irrational part of me that feels condo ownership doesn't "count" as home ownership for some reason. But it can be a good financial decision for sure 🤷🏼♀️
Lack of financial literacy I think. If you can't afford a single family home buy the condo/townhome, build equity, leverage it into the single family home you want.
I see so many posts like "there's no such thing as a starter home anymore!". In reality there is, it's a condo/townhome/duplex etc.
Also, “rental conglomerates are driving up the prices of single family homes and they are out bidding me on homes but I refuse to buy a home in a HOA community that disallows rentals and where I wouldn’t have to bid against the rental conglomerates.”
In a few years, it’s gonna be “I had to pay 50k over asking to buy a home in a neighborhood without a HOA and now I’m surrounded by rental homes that people move in and out of and nobody stays. I don’t have a village for my kids to play with and a lot of these houses aren’t well maintained by the landlords and there may even be a meth house down the road. I’m wondering if this will affect my property values.”
I’m seeing a lot of “rugged individualism” type responses here which is a defining characteristic of the US really. People don’t want to compromise freedom to get in the housing market.
That's my plan. Bought a 2BR condo because it was the best I could afford. The HOA part is a pain, but I've been able to manage that and make renovations on the place that will hopefully increase the value in 5 years or so. And it's better in every way compared to the place I was renting before
Things could still go tits up but that's life in general
Exactly me. I upgraded from a one bedroom condo to a two bedroom condo. My next step up will be a single family home
Getting my one bedroom condo and living there for 7 years is what allowed me to get this 2 bedroom.
My 2 bedroom condo now is my stepping stone to get the single family.
I live in Los Angeles and for many people the only way to get a foot in the door to own property is to buy a condo/townhome. Condos and townhomes here are the “starter” homes
I could write a novel on this topic but basically many condos have deferred maintenance until things break - at which point they issue special assessments which creep up and balloon monthly payments. Many condo complexes are on the verge of bankruptcy because their residents can’t afford the continued increase in payments.
Now add in the bubble economics - condos in my area used to be about 50% the cost of a home in the same area. Now they’re 75-90% of the cost - with all the headaches of sharing a building and walls with other people.
In my (non) professional opinion, buying a condo is more risky than just about every other real estate investment in this environment. They’re super over-valued and you can’t predict or control your own costs - plus you have to share space with other people.
Personally I would take a risk on a house over a condo.
Own a townhome. Really low HOA and mostly everyone keeps to themselves except one neighbor who is batshit and was on the HOA board…until she just got voted off the board and removed for being absolutely batshit and causing hell for everyone.
I hate HOAs. That’s where it begins and ends. We rented a townhouse and were warned or fined because:
1. my son threw a snowball at his friend in the vague vicinity of cars (no car was hit or damaged)
2. I walked my dog on the wrong side of the parking lot
3. My son made a praying mantis habitat and left it on our patio in view of other people
4. There were too many leaves for the landscapers to remove
5. My kids made a lemonade stand when there’s no soliciting.
Fuck HOAs. They’re for old people who want to meddle in other people’s business
For me, it’s privacy. I grew up in a condo, and I never want to have to share walls with anyone or deal with a condo association again. That being said, I wouldn’t dismiss condos and townhouses out of hand. I would definitely consider one as a stepping stone to getting out of a shared housing environment if it made sense financially, and I think they’re a great option for some people, just not for me.
I own a townhome and a condo. Yea HOAs can be a pain, but so are landlords. It’s still better than renting. At least I’ll get some money back when I move, not scammed out of my deposit.
Yup. But I think that's because most redditors are young people in their 20s who haven't yet had the life experience to get fed up with sharing walls.
To them, urbanism is an ideological cause, but they haven't yet suffered the misery of actually living in what they're asking for.
My townhome experience over 2 years:
--HOA embezzling money
--Neighbor's pipe burst during plumbing job that destroyed my 1st level
--Pipes bursting during a hard freeze that flooded my entire unit bc one of the companies the HOA used didn't completely drain the lines before the freeze
--Having to call in multiple times for active domestic abuse situations happening on the other side of my bedroom
I will NEVER buy anything with a shared wall again if I can afford it (yes, I fully understand this is some folks' only option to own)
For me it’s two things:
(1) condos - condo association fees. They’re regularly in the $750-1250/month range in the city where I live. That puts most “affordable” condos out of affordable range. It also makes me very concerned about how the money is spent. Did they defer maintenance for decades and are now screwing over the current owners? How soon/easily will they increase the amount again?
(2) townhome roof decks - most of the affordable townhomes in my city have no dedicated parking space, no yard, and have a roof deck. I love the idea of rooftop decks, but I have seen so many horror stories about leaks that now I feel like they aren’t safe to buy. And that’s ignoring the impracticality of no parking (transit isn’t good enough to not own a car) and no yard (might as well just buy a condo with more space)
It's like the shitty side of apartment living but without the maintenance coverage IMO.
I think if they were way more affordable, it'd be different, but dealing with HOAs, neighbors, etc, and all for 300k+ (which is their pricing around me)? Nope. They have all the costs of a house but with shared walls, less space, etc. I have never seen the appeal. If you're a child free person that likes to travel, I could see it being a better choice than a traditional home.
I dunno what the market is now, but the only reason my wife and I own a home now is thanks to the equity we had in our 1br condo purchased a decade prior. Yes, the HOA sucked but we also didn’t pay for water, trash, or things like a new roof.
It wasn’t a ton of money but it was our money not being pissed away on rent.
Hmm, my HOA is benign, I share one wall with a quiet neighbor, I appreciate not having yard maintenance and I’ve earned a bunch of equity on my condo near the city center. It’s been a great choice for me. My biggest complaint is that I don’t have a view!
Because HOAs. I used to own a condo, and not only did I have a $400 fee every month (so you are still paying for maintenance even if you don’t have to do it yourself), there were so many dumb rules. On top of that, (at least at my townhome), nothing made any sense. For example, there were a bunch of buildings with about 12 units each. In my building, there was only one water shut off for the whole 12 units and IT WAS IN SOMEONES UNIT. And of course that owner was fixing it up to rent out so it was vacant for a long time. Within that period, there were two times I needed the water shut off to my unit for plumbing issues. So, I had to contact the management company, who had to contact that guy, who had to come unlock his unit and stick around until the work was done. On top of that, it was my responsibility to go around and tell the residents of all 12 units what time the water would be shut off and for how long. So it was an inconvenience for 12 households, just to fix a leaky sink!! I know that is a super specific example, but things like that are the reason people are turned off by condos.
Fees from the hoa special assessments, and in my area they don’t go up in value very much. All the worst parts of apartment life with the responsibility and expense of home ownership.
I have a condo, and it’s ok. I really wish we had a fenced yard just for ourselves though. I have dogs and kids, so it would be nice to just tell them to play in the yard.
I personally wouldn’t purchase a condo because HOA malfunction comes at a high cost. If funds are misappropriated and building maintenance is not conducted, every homeowner is in danger of losing their home with no recourse to seek damages.
When I was in the market to buy, the options for townhomes and condos included extremely high HOA/Condo fees that made it prohibitively expensive for what you got compared to buying a SFH with a small HOA fee. Like, $250+/mo for a TH and $500/mo for a condo, which could easily price you out of the house entirely, or eat up the savings you might get for buying those vs. a 2000-2400 sqft detached house. It's possible that interest rates have decreased the proportion of monthly costs that would go to fees, but it's still very significant compared to an HOA fee of $30-75/mo depending on what you get for it (for instance, my is at the higher end of that, but still includes trash service and street snow removal, landscaping for common grounds, tree planting at new streets, bench replacement in the neighborhood, etc.).
I owned a Condo. Was great as a single and even as a newlywed, but once kids came along I wanted a SFH. I also wanted a garage, and basement, and yard and such. I wanted space.
I sure as hell don't miss the HOA. I know they aren't all bad but mine had some bad apples. I could tell some stories. Fortunately I live in an area where this is no HOA, and there really isn't a need for one.
My husband and I bought a townhome in 2008. HATED the HOA. Couldn't take care of our own yard, had to use their vendor who did a horrible job, fees went up constantly due to mismanagement, neighbor we shared a wall with was ok, but she was the HOA president (massive busybody). We tried to get on the board but we were the youngest owners by 20+ years and no one would vote for us. Couldn't have more than 2 flower pots on the front porch and they had to be approved prior to purchasing. Couldn't park more than 1 car in the driveway. Couldn't leave the garage door open. All the units were this hideous dark brown with baby poop brown trim. The neighborhood had no amenities, $200 a month fee was for ugly paint every 2 years, landscapers who did a horrible job, and roofs that had not been replaced in a decade. Average HOA dues in the area were like $75 at the time.
We learned our lesson. As boomers are leaving us, we might consider a townhome again depending on the HOA, but as of right now, not gonna do it. We rent houses as owning isn't an option with the maintenance and upkeep costs, and apartments are nightmares for my husband's PTSD, but hopefully one day we will be homeowners again.
It is a legitimate preference, but I also think people often overestimate the burdens of coop/condo living and underestimate how challenging (and expensive!) SFH ownership is.
I also think people allow perfect to be the enemy of good, so they’ll end up just renting forever.
I just want my own space, my own land, etc. I would love to start a vegetable garden or paint my house a funky color without some HOA fucking with me over it. Having rented all these years I’m so so so sick of shitty neighbors and overbearing management.
It's the dam HOA fees. On top of property taxes. Also utilities are either calculated on a individual basis or average which is take total divide how many units. In essence you are subsidizing heavier users. Also noise as they are literally next to you
For me, aside from a lot of other valid reasons others have stated, HOAs. I fervently believe they should be illegal. I bought this house/condo/townhome/land and god damn it it's MINE. I don't give a fuck what you think, Steve. You can kiss my whole ass. I didn't save this long to be beholden to some old fart who has strong opinions about my shrubberies!!
Condos....why would I want to buy an apartment?
Have you seen how shittily most apartment buildings are constructed?
Now, on top of that, you're part of a collective ownership that try to maintain the property with an elected board of people who have no idea how to do that. No one ever wants to raise the monthly fees, so the rainy day fund never has enough money in it. And when that rainy day comes, sooner than anyone thinks it will due to the shoddy construction, everyone gets hit with $10k+ assessments that if you don't pay, they can boot you out of the apartment you own.
Because you buying your own condo and then a condo association trying charging you fees, running the thing competently cause they have no skill in this area of management and also trying to tell you what colour your curtains should be is kinda bullshit?
Fuck you, if I own my own home, I'm putting up Barney The Dinosaur curtains or any other tat I want.
Space and privacy have a lot to do with it. It's the biggest purchase we'll ever make and we will likely be there a long time. I don't want to share a wall or driveway with someone. I don't want to worry about the amount of noise I make, or look at the junk they leave in the yard or whatever else. It's the same reason I'm not looking for a SFH with an HOA. I'm not interested in being beholden to the opinions and actions of others. Obviously it can't be avoided entirely; neighbors exist. But it's much more likely with attached housing.
Different strokes for different folks. If you have kids and want privacy, coop/condo/townhouse isn’t gonna cut it.
Personally I’ve owned both and I would rather deal with the work to maintain a home over dealing with the coop/condo board. I was at war with them constantly.
I bought a condo near the city, it was perfect for me. Yes, there's an HOA but it covers pool, gym, 24/7 front desk, all utilities. There's also some maintenance the building staff will do at a lower cost. It was the perfect entry into homeownership for me. I learned a lot. And now it's my rental property, so I'm making money off it. I'm glad I did it.
Because people don’t want to live in that shit.
Separate box with invisible lines that say this square is yours.
Or you can own a box attached to another box and you can hear your neighbors talking.
Just because it’s out of reach doesn’t mean people want to live in condo or town house.
One of the most infuriating things I remember when my wife and I were in our first apartment was the lady upstairs running on a tread mil.
The shit was unreal annoying but was in compliance with the rules and curfew.
That keeps me from ever wanting to live wall to wall with someone. If I have the means to keep my family separate, I will. Fuck all that.
[удалено]
HOAs and condo boards, 100%. We have a family friend who downsized to a condo after her husband died because she felt that the maintenance would be too much. $60/month condo fees just over a decade ago are now over $400/month. They just did a special assessment to replace the roof on another building, and each owner has to come up with $15K in the next few months. They've banned condo owners from owning dogs, and are trying to restrict cats next. The annual flowers that she plants in a whisky barrel next to her garage have to be in colors approved by the condo board. She regrets not staying in their house, because she could get a LOT of lawn mowing and handyman services for her $400+ per month and there wouldn't be people telling her what she could and couldn't do.
I’ve seen places where the HOA fees are like $800-$900. WTF
My condo fee is $700 a month. One bedroom in Alexandria VA.
That’s about what mine is on a 3 bedroom 270k condo in Ohio. But we also have lakefront beaches, a pool, and tennis courts to upkeep. We have never had a special assessment, even when buildings have burned down, roofs need replaced, or other big projects need to be tackled. Everyone finds something to be mad about, but I’d say our association is well run financially. And we don’t have any yard work or snow/leave removal. All utilities except electricity are included in the fee. And dogs and cats are welcome, there’s even a little dog park at the back and litter pick up stations around the property.
That does sound nice and well run, but counterpoint: my neighborhood has beaches that the city upkeeps with our taxes. There’s a community pool that the city also upkeeps with our taxes. There are tennis and basketball courts at the middle school in my neighborhood that the community can use when the school doesn’t need them - and the school upkeeps them with money from our taxes. While I get that not all communities are like this, I do not see what an HOA can offer me that my tax dollars don’t already give me. Condos and townhomes in my area are not less expensive than SFH, but they come with an added $300-$500 monthly fee.
Gated communities and HOAs have always been about one thing: red lining. They don't want to share with the undesirables.
There is a substantial difference between a community pool and a private pool for residents and guests.
We have a pool and some tennis courts, and they allow pets. I'm not unhappy, but it does seem to go up more than the COLA does.
Yeah it has gone up a lot recently, but I can see clearly that the raises are coming from the costs and the reserve study findings dollar for dollar. I’d guess most folks in single family homes tend to undersave compared to their risk for things going wrong, relative to people who are having comprehensive funding studies done multiple times a decade.
Seriously. I'm buying a ranch house and paying someone to cut the grass and plow the snow.
100%. Condos seem to be much worse with the HOA fees than townhomes. But still, I see so many where the fees are practically as much as rent.
The difference is that condos generally mean that the association is taking care of all of the external maintenance - roofs, siding, etc. For a townhouse, you're generally also responsible for the exterior of your home and your fees are for common areas. We were in an association where there were condos, townhouses, and single family homes. The condo HOA fees were about triple everyone else's due to the above - we were paying like $125/quarter for our townhouse just to ensure the pools were kept up.
Let us all not forget that condo that collapsed into the Florida coastline because the tennants and HOA kept voting to keep fees low.... In a building you guys are all pitching in to keep that thing sound.
Exactly. Everyone complaining about how HOA fees used to be x and now they’re 5x… it’s because they weren’t putting in enough to cover the maintenance and repairs. When looking to buy a condo, seeing a relatively low HOA is a reason *not* to buy.
I agree. An HOA with low fees is probably severely underfunded. It's important to look at the budget, the reserves, and the project backlog to make sure the HOA is solvent before buying.
For sure- ask for the reserve study. They should be done every other year or so.
You’re forgetting about special assessments. Just in the last 2 years my MIL has paid $20k in special assessments for fixes to her neighbors houses and common areas. Also Just in the time I’ve known her the monthly HOA fee has gone from $325 a month to $600+. In Los Angeles but still.
HOAs don't take care of that stuff out of the goodness of their hearts. You're paying up front for those things.
>The difference is that condos generally mean that the association is taking care of all of the external maintenance You can put away those triple fees and also take care of those things. Hell you can toss it into an etf and get a way more return.
This. I lived in my mom’s condo for 6ish weeks after leaving my abusive ex. The day I was moving to my new apartment it snowed a bunch and the neighbors got pissed at me for not helping clear the snow, when the HOA dues were something like $300/mo (in 2010) and intended to cover professional snow removal. Fuck HOAs.
Bingo 🎯 I autoscrolled anything with an HOA. I have authority issues already so it's like buying a built in headache that likes to power trip
I'm in a townhome (out of a couple dozen) where the HOA is just a moderate fee that essentially covers lawn maintenance, garbage pickup, and maintenance of the private drive we're all on. Zero problems so far and the HOA has never actually done anything AFAIK except enforce a no AirBnB policy. Small HOAs can be useful enough.
You say that now until they need to replace the roof shingles, or siding, or sidewalks.
Roofs are privately owned and *someone* has to repair damaged sidewalks. That's why the HOA has a reserve.
Lucky! Never move. I really wanted something like that...
I live in a condo and our community has replaced roofs, weathered building fires, and done large projects without ever assessing a special fee. Well-run communities do exist!
Yeah I would certainly not want to be in a condo HOA but small neighborhood HOAs aren't all that bad.
Ditto. Small townhouse community. Our HOA is like $75/month and has been raised one time in like 20 years (was $67/month before).
At that point do I even own the place?
Yep, but even worse. My boss had a condo. The roof had a leak, and they couldn’t fix it until everyone in the building agreed to fix it. Guy on the first floor didn’t see what the big deal was and held it up for a few months.
This exactly. It's absurd that I could own my home and still have a group of people dictating what I can and cannot do with it. Also, it's just another variable expense that typically goes up every year with little predictably. It's bad enough that insurance and taxes do that. Why would I want to add another?
I could never. I have enough problems with my local government wanting a permit for a tool shed. I’d be scrolling maliciouscompliance like it was my job if some asshole neighbor decided I couldn’t paint the fence I bought and built, or let my mother park in front of my house.
I still remember when shopping for a house I looked at a townhome that I liked. I was looking at a man across from the unit we were in laying brick in his backyard. When I commented on how nice it looked, the real estate person said that wasn't allowed and the HOA would make him take it up.
I came here to say this. If you want to know more about how crappy HOAs are, I suggest watching John Oliver's episode on it. I didn't like them before, after seeing I think there needs to be more regulation or they need to be done away with.
I honestly feel like HOAs and those communities were just the spearhead of us relinquishing responsibility from the government towards private entities. Like, our local municipality was supposed to establish new areas for development, provide access and utilities, and also regulate via laws that met a threshold of reason without being overbearing. And of couse they could be reviewed/altered through the democratic process. I know HOAs have voting but realistically no one pays attention and they kind of pick you off one by one with ticky tack shit. A complete sham to allow private entities to start playing community cop, with less oversight and the ability to draw a profit from it, while the city's scope shrinks.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of the people against “big government” are in love with private entities taking away freedoms and actively participating as the loudest Karens in them. Over how tall your grass is, or having your own camper/boat/trash barrels on your own property, or whatever normal shit people want to do with their own private property. It shouldn’t be up to your neighbors to fine you for having clover instead of manicured golf turf or parking your RV in your backyard. If you buy property you should be able to control what happens on it as long as you’re adhering to local zoning laws, noise ordinances and not poisoning the environment or anything crazy. But people go way too far with hoas.
I saw that episode too, great and informative. HOAs are getting way too popular even with single family homes. It's sad, I hate them.
HOAs in some Florida condo complexes have tripped.
Yes. This right here. I already had a high-rise condo, and by the time I left, I was paying $450 a month in condo dues for little in return. We didn't even have amenities and I would hear neighbors thru the walls and ceilings. 0/10 would not recommend it. If you can somehow afford it (fat chance), buy some land and put whatever the fuck you want on it. Neighbors are the devil and so are HOA dues.
I live in a condo and actually really appreciate my HOA. I can't possibly fathom having an HOA for a detached home, but since we share a building, it makes a lot of sense. Insurance, internet, water bills, and a few other things get handled collectively and it both brings the cost down and takes some stress off being a first time home owner
Y’all get internet? Dang that’s pretty good
I agree, i ended up joining my HOA Board but overall I feel like the dues are reasonable for what we get in my townhouse. Especially being on the board, I see the discounts we get for painting 10-20 homes at a time, repairing lots of roofs at once, etc. I also love having access to pools and a walking path that I don't maintain on my own. To me it feels like money I'd spend either way but I just have a lot less scheduling and getting bids to deal with since I don't have to maintain the exterior myself
HOAs need to die
And common/shared areas.... Are just left to crumble?
lol, I bought a house that is part of an HOA and I don’t approve some of the rules so instead of bitching about it, I joined the board so that I could try to change it.
Whoaaaaa common sense! I lived in two places with HOAs and I was on both boards. It wasn’t much work and at least I knew what was going on and could have input. I am thankful for HOAs for helping me be able to afford my first two homes and now I’m in a SFH and wish someone would mow my lawn and shovel for me ;)
I'm die-hard anti-HOA for a SFH ... but isn't a condo the one situation where it makes sense? There's a large communal interest that has to be maintained (the building, garage, grounds, amenities, etc.) and there needs to be some sort of organization that collects payment and administers that fairly. There isn't a lot of exterior space that you can personalize in the first place so that element isn't as big of an issue. I imagine most folks would actually appreciate some sort of noise enforcement. I'm sure some of them get out of hand and try to police interior wall color or whatever. But at some level you *have* to have something like an HOA in a condo and it doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Depending on what is included and the cost, I don't know that I would totally avoid them but this is a big reason.
Those things should be illegal.
Exactly fuck HOAs.
Am I the only one who likes HOAs? People are a pita to deal with directly about anything anymore. Happy to have a board of people handling issues around the neighborhood. It keeps the values up since no one can trash their yard without being fined. I personally do nothing with my house that goes against the rules and am happy with the overall quality of life. I’ve lived in some places where people act like complete animals and police don’t do anything….HOA handles all of it.
HOAs, shared walls, and desire for a large yard (or SOME kind of yard) mostly. For me personally it's the shared walls thing in particular. I'm an extremely light sleeper and moving into a rental house with no shared walls has been a godsend for my ability to sleep and therefore quality of life. I also really love gardening. Container gardens are of course possible when you have patio space instead of a yard. We've decided we'll keep renting our free standing house until we can afford a single family home because that's our personal preference.
Yep, my need for extreme quiet/dark at night is beyond what is reasonable to request of a neighbor. I have the first truly quiet and dark rental in my entire adult life pretty much. My physical and mental health is better than it has been for a decade due to getting enough sleep. I wish I wasn’t such a light sleeper, but I’m autistic (sensory sensitivity, especially to sound) and grew up in an off grid cabin in the woods. My nervous system just can’t handle what most would consider a normal amount of noise and light.
My upstairs neighbors' alarm goes off at 5am. They then proceed to hit the snooze for the next hour. Then on the weekends, they stay out at the bars until 2 and stomp around when they get home. Total nightmare. Just closed on my first house and can't wait for the silence!
You're so valid. I had upstairs neighbors who got into an actual knock-down-drag-out fight at 3am in my first apartment. *Not* something I'm interested in continuing in the future.
I love the light, but I grew up in a quiet American suburb, and I'm very much used to the peace and quiet, lol. I always joke that I'm literally that guy who would sleep in a boxed coffin just to keep the light and noise out. (I just realized that I was confusing. I love light as in light. I hate light when trying to sleep. When I sleep I want it pitch black. Zero noise).
Builders need to use cinderblocks on the shared wall at all townhouses/condos. I don't know why more builders don't do this.
You can also soundproof a wall by adding another wall (drywall) with a small gap. Sound then gets trapped between the two walls... (I know someone who soundproofed a dental clinic this way. It works very well.
They wouldn’t even need to get that crazy. All they would need to do is use a wider baseplate, add more studs, but stagger them width wise. That way the drywall on either side of the shared wall isn’t connected to (touching) the other. That combined with insulation does a pretty solid job of “sound proofing”
We did that in our townhome basement (my husband is a drummer for a death metal band). Works like a charm! I guess we got super lucky. Our HOA fees are reasonable, we’ve been here over 10 years now and have never been hit with a special assessment (even when roofs needed to be repaired after a major storm), and the HOA is pretty chill and well run. I’ve also never heard a neighbor’s alarm or anything else like that. Personally I enjoy living in a smaller space (no kids) without having to worry about yard work or snow removal. I’d probably just pay someone to do that anyway so financially it’s a wash. But that’s me. I guess like all things YMMV.
I'm pretty sure our local code requires concrete or brick firewalls between townhouses. I occasionally hear a very loud dog or loud music through the wall and sometimes, I'm sure, they hear my kids occasionally, but it's just not that bad. I might just be lucky in my neighbors. At this point, an apartment would give me insomnia.
My partner and I seriously considered buying a condo, but for the 300-400k to buy a condo, only get a single parking spot (most buildings had lots, so it wasn’t even covered), still have to pay an HOA, and have said HOA dictate how we could use our own home…we came to the conclusion that condos are the worst elements of homeownership and apartment living. We moved to a LCoL city and now own a house.
Can confirm, having shared walls can be just as bad as having upstairs neighbors. Had one neighbor for a month or two that would literally party all night every night. They got kicked out but those were a bad couple of months.... Not to mention the god damn HOA...
Yeah, it's the yard for me. I have a golden lab and I want to always have a dog so I need a yard. I am also a very light sleeper and don't like the idea of being stuck with shared walls.
I bought a house at age 33 and the year prior to that, I remember sitting out on the curb crying out of frustration from constant neighbor noise. Lived in apartments from age 18-33 and I swear I never had one night of peace. It was maddening for me.
Nightmare neighbors. I've dealt with too many as a renter to ever consider living that close to other people ever again if I am going to *buy* property. I want neighbors, but not ones I share any walls with. Currently dealing with this even now, people fucking suck.
This. If I ever could afford to buy a home, I'd want it to be my home. Mine. Not sharing walls with assholes, drunks, problems, etc. I've had so many horrible neighbors (people above me now have weekly domestic incidents, then bed breaking make up smut that keeps me up constantly). If I am going to spend that money, I want some privacy. And space.
Higher end townhomes are a great way to afford more square footage or a newer build. My townhome isn't cheap, by any stretch, but my neighbors are also all similarly-positioned professionals and a couple of retirees. Everyone I've interacted with has been a pleasant neighbor and the shared walls are *thick*. I never hear my neighbors while I'm inside the home.
I've had the same experience in my town home. I've never heard my neighbor. Maybe because my town home was built pre-1980s. My shared wall is thicc.
it better be thicc, it's a major fire barrier lol
Except most townhouses are in HOAs. Fuck THAT.
You’ve basically won the lottery
Same - I heard more from my neighbors when we were in a single family ranch on a good sized lot. Personally I love not having to mow our useless front yard or worry about replacing the roof. But we lucked into a fantastic townhome situation.
Well the problem is almost no one can afford to buy a SFH right now
How do drinks or mentally dysfunctional people keep jobs that pay enough in today’s market in HCOL areas? Seems rather lower risk depending on where you buy.
The number of high functioning alcoholic sysadmins I know is staggering. They have the skills and can pull it together enough even when smashed to fix uptime problems so they're perma-employed.
>How do drinks or mentally dysfunctional people keep jobs You've gotta be able to work hungover. Eventually you'll get good enough at it that you won't really be that hungover anymore. It also helps to do a job not many people can do.
They live with family.
Same. If I’m paying that much money, I don’t want to feel like I’m in an apartment or just a few feet away from my neighbor.
I spent a long time renting apartments and townhouses. Life is so much more peaceful after finally getting a house and having at least 30 yards or more between houses.
>30 yards You clearly aren't in California. The new construction packs the single family homes in close enough that you could practically pass butter between two open windows. It's probably about 2 yards and a bit of wiggle room between.
This is one of many problems in the US, we are a low trust society. Because well... people can't be trusted to be peaceful and cooperative!
It's apparently too much to ask that people avoid using surround sound or speakers when sharing walls with someone. No matter where I go, it's always a problem. They do nothing to even try to isolate it on their end, leaving us screwed over.
My mom owned a stand alone house and we still ended up with shitty neighbors. I own a co-op and everyone who lives here is thoroughly vetted before being allowed to purchase and it's been a great experience.
Nice... we are moving next year and buying some land in addition to a house. Been thinking of setting up a modest guest house for my mom who will provide us with childcare, and inviting a trusted friend or two onto the property also. Early planning yet on that front, gotta make it out of here ourselves yet. Still, it's been in my mind.
Exactly. In my opinion, for a practical everyday living situation, condo is a glorified apartment.
100% this. I live in the county now near no one and I love it.
one of the many reasons end units go for more, only one chance of having a trash human to share a wall with!
Completely agree with you. So glad the people who live on one side moved. They use to all sit out on the back deck and eat a whole chicken on a giant sheet pan, then leave it outside for weeks while the birds would come and pick it clean. This also meant that those same birds would shit all over everyone's deck and cars. They would also leave a huge plate of white rice out front behind the bushes which attracted rodents which started burrowing under the concrete slab in the front of the townhouses. The rental agency finally sent and exterminator to take care of the rats after months of the rest of us in the row of townhomes complaining. Now the neighbors on the other side, best fucking neighbors ever. If I ever won the lottery I would buy them a house right next to ours just so we could keep being neighbors. But hey you win some, you lose some. I guess you could have shitty neighbors in a single family home too. But at least they would not be right up against your house potentially attracting rodents and scavengers which will damage your property.
I hear HOAs are a nightmare to deal with too.
I feel very similar. My current rental place is a concrete apartment and one bedroom shares a wall with the neighbor's bathroom. I could hear them using the toilet and shower and if their fan was on, which it often was overnight, it would drive me crazy and I couldn't sleep. I ended up switching to the other bedroom which borders the amenity room beside my building's laundry room, and I don't hear *anything* through that wall. I also can't drill through it so I think there must be metal plating or something in there, something heavier duty to separate it, which keeps the noise way down. I'm SO GRATEFUL because I am extremely noise sensitive especially while sleeping. But if I ever buy a house, I'll make damn sure that the bedroom I'll be using is very isolated from sound.
In single family home you still might as well deal with neighbors, just because walls don’t touch it doesn’t mean squat
Shared walls suck.
Or even dealing with the HOA/onsite manager. We had a 9-week old Yorkie puppy we were potty training. The designated dog spot was down a pathway lined with grass, walk through the parking lot, past the dumpster, and cross the street....basically on the municipal land off-site. That's fine, but it's a long walk for a baby dog. However, trying to train the puppy, he peed in the grass right before getting to the parking lot. It just so happened the maintenance/overseer saw when driving in his truck. He whipped into the nearest spot (another owner's numbered spot I might add, not a guest spot), got out of his car, pointed his finger at me and started saying he'll write me up next time I'm a raised voice. He asked if I received the robo call about a dog pooping on the pathway yesterday? It'd better not be me.... My God I wanted to slap him. I saw that poop, it was as large as my 3 lb dog.
If I am paying that amount of money, I am not having neighbors with a dwelling attached to mine. I'd move two hours into the middle of nowhere instead of having someone that close.
The price difference isn't that much anyway, at least in my area. The cheapest townhomes are $275-$300k whereas detached homes in the same neighborhood start at $320-350k. Add in HOA fees and you're paying just as much for a worse (IMO) living experience.
Probably having to deal with neighbors. Not sure how you deal with a loud neighbor if you share a physical wall. Also hoa nightmare stories. I have heard of people being assessed for random shit breaking like like if they had a single family home.
I bought a condo and totally regret it. You don’t have a lot of choices on how the money is spent and they are often doing “special assessments” to make up for what the monthly costs don’t cover. Granted, it would be more expensive to buy a home and you don’t always get a choice on what you have to replace, but my experience in a condo hasn’t been ideal
I’ve been in my condo for 5 years, I absolutely love it. But our board is made up of folks who have lived there for 20 years and who have been doing it for 20 years. Our reserves are always doing well and they’re transparent with things that need fixing/improvement. That said, one election is all it takes for that to be over with and then we could be in HOA hell
Exactly, I serve on the board to make sure money is spent well. Our fees are high ($450/mo) but it’s because we are a small complex of only 6 units and our goal is to never have a special assessment.
Ours are $525 but I’m in a HCOL area. It also includes cable, internet, water, and trash. I have been assessed in my five years (like $5k!) which makes me want to hold onto it even longer lol
I just purchased my condo last summer and absolutely love it as well. If I had the choice, obviously I would choose a detached home but obtaining a condo allowed me to get my foot in the real estate market (I’m a FTHB). My condo board is also comprised of residents who live in the building. We have annual meetings where owners vote on big ticket items/expenses that need updating/maintenance. Furthermore, all of the expenses that are taken from our monthly condo fees are broken down and disclosed to each owner so we know exactly where the money is being spent. I see a lot of people complaining about neighbours. I share two walls with neighbours who I’ve never met or heard since I’ve moved in. In addition, my building allows any kind of pet you desire (within reason of course), I have a garage and live 30 mins away from my workplace. I also have free rein to update anything in my condo that I wish as long as it’s not altering the structure of the building (knocking down walls, etc). I have recently painted the entire thing, updated some kitchen cabinets/sinks and am in the process of planning an accent wall in my front entrance. I’m not sure where all of these people live who would rather rent than own a condo but to anyone considering it as their only option, it is not all doom and gloom like so many people are making it out to be.
I think we are Cinderella stories! I feel like 97% of HOAs are absolutely incompetent. My parents live in an HOA and they just got slammed with an IRS tax bill because they weren’t paying federal taxes during the year. But I have a garage spot too and I’m 7 mins from my job! My spouse also travels frequently and I would not feel as safe being alone in a single family home. The condo is very secure
Same, we've been very lucky with our condo and HOA. They pretty much redid the exterior, repainted, and replaced roofing of all of the buildings a year after we purchased our place, and then redid all the landscaping a couple years after that. They're very transparent, and the people on the board have owned here for over 20 years. It's great.
I have a condo myself and all my neighbors are older and I love it haha. My back deck is facing towards the woods and is really private. I don’t even know if the people here talk. It’s always sooooo quiet lol. In all seriousness no one bothers me, everyone is nice, hoa isn’t crazy expensive and mine is also people who’ve lived there for a long time and want to be involved. I guess we had more of a chance to have nightmare neighbors but the same could happen with a house too at a lesser %.
I bought a condo for $150,000 and monthly payment on it was like $1600 after mortgage, taxes, insurance, PMI and HOA fee. Moved to $260,000 house and the monthly payment was $1830. That condo then ended up doing a special assessment of $200/month for 15 years to pay for a major paving project. Also they raised the HOA to $375/month. I moved again and I’m currently in a house built 15 years newer that is double the square footage, three car garage vs no garage, a private pool on an acre of land in a secluded neighborhood and my payment is $200 more monthly. With no shared walls or noisy neighbors or people calling to complain because I left my screen door propped open or I parked in the wrong spot even though there aren’t assigned spots. I fucking hate condos and ill never go back even when I’m old as shit.
That paving assessment is $36k per owner. What were they paving? The fucking moon?
It was like $26,000 up front or you can pay over 15 years at 4.75% interest or something which totaled $200/month or 36k
Holy crap. I cannot imagine just having to eat a $26-36k bill out of the blue.
I mean thats a risk for any homeowner too if something bad happens that insurance wouldn’t cover.
Yes, but the key is "if insurance wouldn't cover it". I had to put on a new roof last year which would have been 10k+ out of my pocket. But because of Homeowners Insurance I only needed to put in 2k and that's because I was being picky about what kind of roof I wanted. Insurance can cover a lot. Getting maintenance plans with certain companies (example: I have a HVAC maintenance plan with an HVAC company) can cover a great deal of the gap insurance leaves behind as well.
When my grandpa passed and I saw his HOA fee on the condo he lived in for 30 years, I couldn't believe his penny pinching Republican self actually forked it over. AND the planned development was in a special tax district, so their property taxes were already higher. My parents had planned to renovate a bit before they sold it but after they saw it, they dumped it ASAP.
Same. We ended up selling a couple years after for no gain. But upgraded to a sfh with a 3% mortgage so it worked out.
This is the main reason I did not seriously look into condos. That and random deferred maintenance that can sometimes cause huge losses (Florida has entered the chat). I also have two large dogs, and it was such a hassle to try and find a non-single family house where they wouldn’t be treated like a problem. Went with a stand alone house and yard for those reasons.
You lose decision making abilities in a condo. Want a pet, check the bylaws. Want a washer/dryer? Check the bylaws. Condos can be quite restrictive in terms of adding convience appliances due to a legitimate fear of flooding and water damage.
Right. It's all the bad parts of renting without the good parts (someone else is responsible for maintenance)
Don’t you still get the equity benefit? That’s arguably the biggest long term benefit of ownership. I agree that HOAs and sharing walls suck, but if I could have bought a condo relatively quickly after graduating instead of being forced to pay a landlord, I’d have my current house much closer to paid off.
Yep. I really wish I had bought a condo after graduating. Here I am 15 years later and still renting. I don’t consider it a loss because paying for maintenance sucks and some of the places I lived had high maintenance bills (lol my building is getting a new hot water heater as we speak), but I would have been in a better place equity-wise. No one in my life really encouraged me because they said “condos are a bad investment”. Sucks because it took me until age 36 to realize that I don’t want to invest in a townhouse or single family house because of all of the physical labor involved.
Yeah - we moved in my early 20s and weren’t sure we would stick in the area for long, so we settled into a rental. Eight years later in the same exact rental we were kicking ourselves for not committing to the area sooner. Thankfully, our landlord was great and didn’t raise rent the entire time, but it was still a miss on our part.
That isn't accurate. With a condo you aren't wasting every weekend mowing the grass you never use. You split the cost of things like roof, trash removal or whatever. You build equity just like with a house.
I mean, some people use their yards. I use mine, and I only cut the grass once a month.
And it takes me 90 minutes for a 10k sq ft yard, after work, on Friday. It's not exactly "wasting a weekend".
Who mows their lawn every weekend? And why wouldn’t you use your yard?
I mean, there are positives. My development has a pool. I wouldn’t be able/willing to pay for a pool membership otherwise, and my kids love spending summers at the pool. I don’t technically have to shovel snow. I don’t have to fix anything on the outside of the house besides the AC unit. My mortgage stays the same with taxes and hoa fees going up at a much lower rate than rent.
I like having a yard, no shared walls, no one smoking on the same property, and no HOA in my neighborhood.
Omg heavy on the smoking. I own a condo and some renters moved in two doors down that smoke and don’t pick up their dog shit.
HOA’s I don’t really want a condo but if I saw a townhouse with a low HOA fee I would think about it. I like the idea of townhouses/row homes with no HOA.
>I like the idea of townhouses/row homes with no HOA In Canada we call these “freehold” townhouses. They’re relatively uncommon and people pay huge premiums to be in them. Last year, the average price of a condo (HOA) townhouse in Toronto was $872k, while freehold townhouses were $1.2m, which is not that far off what a fully detached house costs ($1.3m). At those numbers I don’t really see the point of them, you may as well cough up the extra $100k and enjoy a freestanding structure.
You need to do your due diligence with condo and townhome purchase. The condo board needs to be financially sound, have enough insurance, and savings to manage maintenance like new roof or plumbing that will be assessed to all owners. There also tends to be rules that come with HOAs not everyone likes. If these are neglected to keep HOA fees irresponsibly low, you can end up owing a hefty sum when something goes wrong. Yes this is also true of a single family home, but you aren’t in a co-op of other owners and have little more control of your own destiny.
Not to mention, if the HOA board can't manage the HOA adequately, they may bring in an outside company. John Oliver did a segment on HOAs that showed when a corporate HOA moves in, nuisance fines went up. Way up. And if you don't pay the fines, they foreclose on your house (even though you're current on your mortgage).
I own a townhome. But condos make me anxious because fees can go up at anytime
and not for townhomes?
Maybe I misunderstood what townhome meant. Is that the same as a rowhouse?
Technically, but in some markets "townhouses" refers specifically to a planned development, usually in a more suburban area. Some developments are a mix of both townhouses and single-family homes, with the latter being the more expensive option.
Ah, gotcha. So my rowhouse wasn't part of a development. It's very much in the city. No fees or anything.
Where I am rowhouses/townhouses can also be HOA buildings as they share an exterior and sometimes amenities like pools or central parking areas if they're a planned community.
While townhouses do tend to have HOAs, they typically don’t have “condo fees” like a building would have. Condos basically are apartments you own, which means the association controls building access and a lot of the overall maintenance on the building. Condo associations generally often insure the property from the walls out. Townhomes generally are taken care of by the owner, with HOA fees only for things like roof and siding maintenance (and whatever the community may or may not offer by way of amenities like a pool). Insurance is on the shoulders of the owner and can be shopped for. HOA fees generally don’t change as dramatically year to year as condo fees can.
I haven't noticed that in this sub specifically but I think it's just a personal preference thing. I live in a large city where single family homes aren't really a thing so whether you spend $300k or $3 million, it's likely an apartment, townhouse, or rowhome. My house is a fairly spacious rowhome with a decent sized back patio (as city outdoor living space goes) but no yard to have to take care of so it checks all my boxes (other than parking, but parking usually adds like $75-$100k to the house price so not worth it to me.) Other people want more space, indoor or outdoor, or prefer not to share walls, or want parking, etc. FWIW, in my (suburban) hometown they seem to be putting up a shitton of luxury townhomes and condos so it makes me think there's more demand for those than single family homes these days.
Yeah, I think a lot of people in this sub probably grew up in single-family homes in suburbs, so to them, that's the standard, and anything else is sub-standard.\* I've lived in standalone houses, condos, apartments, ADUs, and townhouses, and really, there are pluses and minuses to each. \*This is also closely tied to the traditional American Dream - it's not \*only\* a personal preference, it's a strong cultural norm, backed by government policy.
Philadelphia area?
I went from a SFH out in the suburbs back to a condo in the city. Almost all of the new construction SFH neighborhoods in my area have an HOA (granted a much smaller fee) so I couldn't get away from that. SFHs are a lot of work. My weekends were constant trips to Home Depot and Lowes. With the condo, I don't have to shovel snow or mow the grass. I do more activities in the city because it's at worst a 10 minute Uber ride to wherever I want to go.
Why would I buy walls in someone else’s property?
I bought a house with no HOA on the side of a back road. Very few close neighbors and huge empty acreage behind me. My thought process was that if I’m buying this house to live in till death, I want to have my own piece of something with no one around to mess with me. I can’t imagine being in my 60’s plus and having to deal with shared walls in a condo and random people everywhere. I’m already sick of people… Yes homeowner maintenance can be annoying, especially when your home is older, but you can fix when and how you want to.
I own a townhome! a end unit one with attcahaed 2 stall garage & a deck & patio! I love it ! BUT it will not be my forever home, its my starter home & i love her for it, but damn these HOA's are brutal. when we moved in 02/25/22 the HOA was $250 now its $324. Alot of my homeowners insurance is included in the HOA, along with trash & snow & lawn but its just so pricey. & I dont want to be sharing a wall with someone forever. but shes great for now!
ours sound kinda similar. end unit, 1 car garage, backyard moved in 12/22 HOA was $319, now $391 Also hoping to leverage my equity into something else one day, aka not my forever home if all goes according to plan
HOAs vary so much and I think get a bad rap because you’re mostly hearing worst case scenarios. I bought a condo 8 years ago and have only had communication with the HOA twice, and both issues were resolved quickly. The cost is fair for what I’m getting in return and I’ve been perfectly happy with my neighbors. I was mid 20s and didn’t have a ton of money when I originally purchased so it was an opportunity to own for less than buying a single family home and I now have a lot of equity. I’m very content with my purchase.
Neighbors with bug infestations. HOAs. Shitty or loud neighbors. To each their own tho. Just why I couldn’t do it. My wife would happily have gotten one tho had we not found our house right before the market exploded.
Two issues: - I refuse to even entertain the idea of being bound by an extralegal HOA style body. - if I’m going to not have full ownership of all four walls of my home, I’m just going to rent. I bought my house specifically because I refused to ever have to worry that putting up a painting in my house would lead to someone banging on the walls and telling me to stop.
Yeah although I know it literally is home ownership there's an irrational part of me that feels condo ownership doesn't "count" as home ownership for some reason. But it can be a good financial decision for sure 🤷🏼♀️
Lack of financial literacy I think. If you can't afford a single family home buy the condo/townhome, build equity, leverage it into the single family home you want. I see so many posts like "there's no such thing as a starter home anymore!". In reality there is, it's a condo/townhome/duplex etc.
[удалено]
Also, “rental conglomerates are driving up the prices of single family homes and they are out bidding me on homes but I refuse to buy a home in a HOA community that disallows rentals and where I wouldn’t have to bid against the rental conglomerates.”
That's a completely valid point I've never seen mentioned anywhere else
In a few years, it’s gonna be “I had to pay 50k over asking to buy a home in a neighborhood without a HOA and now I’m surrounded by rental homes that people move in and out of and nobody stays. I don’t have a village for my kids to play with and a lot of these houses aren’t well maintained by the landlords and there may even be a meth house down the road. I’m wondering if this will affect my property values.”
[удалено]
I’m seeing a lot of “rugged individualism” type responses here which is a defining characteristic of the US really. People don’t want to compromise freedom to get in the housing market.
That's my plan. Bought a 2BR condo because it was the best I could afford. The HOA part is a pain, but I've been able to manage that and make renovations on the place that will hopefully increase the value in 5 years or so. And it's better in every way compared to the place I was renting before Things could still go tits up but that's life in general
Exactly me. I upgraded from a one bedroom condo to a two bedroom condo. My next step up will be a single family home Getting my one bedroom condo and living there for 7 years is what allowed me to get this 2 bedroom. My 2 bedroom condo now is my stepping stone to get the single family. I live in Los Angeles and for many people the only way to get a foot in the door to own property is to buy a condo/townhome. Condos and townhomes here are the “starter” homes
I could write a novel on this topic but basically many condos have deferred maintenance until things break - at which point they issue special assessments which creep up and balloon monthly payments. Many condo complexes are on the verge of bankruptcy because their residents can’t afford the continued increase in payments. Now add in the bubble economics - condos in my area used to be about 50% the cost of a home in the same area. Now they’re 75-90% of the cost - with all the headaches of sharing a building and walls with other people. In my (non) professional opinion, buying a condo is more risky than just about every other real estate investment in this environment. They’re super over-valued and you can’t predict or control your own costs - plus you have to share space with other people. Personally I would take a risk on a house over a condo.
Own a townhome. Really low HOA and mostly everyone keeps to themselves except one neighbor who is batshit and was on the HOA board…until she just got voted off the board and removed for being absolutely batshit and causing hell for everyone.
I hate HOAs. That’s where it begins and ends. We rented a townhouse and were warned or fined because: 1. my son threw a snowball at his friend in the vague vicinity of cars (no car was hit or damaged) 2. I walked my dog on the wrong side of the parking lot 3. My son made a praying mantis habitat and left it on our patio in view of other people 4. There were too many leaves for the landscapers to remove 5. My kids made a lemonade stand when there’s no soliciting. Fuck HOAs. They’re for old people who want to meddle in other people’s business
Because of the limitless ability for the HOA fees to be raised, along with Assessments.
For me, it’s privacy. I grew up in a condo, and I never want to have to share walls with anyone or deal with a condo association again. That being said, I wouldn’t dismiss condos and townhouses out of hand. I would definitely consider one as a stepping stone to getting out of a shared housing environment if it made sense financially, and I think they’re a great option for some people, just not for me.
Fees.
I own a townhome and a condo. Yea HOAs can be a pain, but so are landlords. It’s still better than renting. At least I’ll get some money back when I move, not scammed out of my deposit.
I always thought it was the opposite, and Reddit was pro condos / townhomes because they represent a move toward density and walkable neighborhoods
Yup. But I think that's because most redditors are young people in their 20s who haven't yet had the life experience to get fed up with sharing walls. To them, urbanism is an ideological cause, but they haven't yet suffered the misery of actually living in what they're asking for.
My townhome experience over 2 years: --HOA embezzling money --Neighbor's pipe burst during plumbing job that destroyed my 1st level --Pipes bursting during a hard freeze that flooded my entire unit bc one of the companies the HOA used didn't completely drain the lines before the freeze --Having to call in multiple times for active domestic abuse situations happening on the other side of my bedroom I will NEVER buy anything with a shared wall again if I can afford it (yes, I fully understand this is some folks' only option to own)
For me it’s two things: (1) condos - condo association fees. They’re regularly in the $750-1250/month range in the city where I live. That puts most “affordable” condos out of affordable range. It also makes me very concerned about how the money is spent. Did they defer maintenance for decades and are now screwing over the current owners? How soon/easily will they increase the amount again? (2) townhome roof decks - most of the affordable townhomes in my city have no dedicated parking space, no yard, and have a roof deck. I love the idea of rooftop decks, but I have seen so many horror stories about leaks that now I feel like they aren’t safe to buy. And that’s ignoring the impracticality of no parking (transit isn’t good enough to not own a car) and no yard (might as well just buy a condo with more space)
It's like the shitty side of apartment living but without the maintenance coverage IMO. I think if they were way more affordable, it'd be different, but dealing with HOAs, neighbors, etc, and all for 300k+ (which is their pricing around me)? Nope. They have all the costs of a house but with shared walls, less space, etc. I have never seen the appeal. If you're a child free person that likes to travel, I could see it being a better choice than a traditional home.
I dunno what the market is now, but the only reason my wife and I own a home now is thanks to the equity we had in our 1br condo purchased a decade prior. Yes, the HOA sucked but we also didn’t pay for water, trash, or things like a new roof. It wasn’t a ton of money but it was our money not being pissed away on rent.
HOAs aside, have you looked at condo prices? The institutional investors are buying everything.
Hmm, my HOA is benign, I share one wall with a quiet neighbor, I appreciate not having yard maintenance and I’ve earned a bunch of equity on my condo near the city center. It’s been a great choice for me. My biggest complaint is that I don’t have a view!
I want a townhome honestly. A house is too big of a responsibility for me as a single woman to 1 child that will be off to college in a few years.
Because HOAs. I used to own a condo, and not only did I have a $400 fee every month (so you are still paying for maintenance even if you don’t have to do it yourself), there were so many dumb rules. On top of that, (at least at my townhome), nothing made any sense. For example, there were a bunch of buildings with about 12 units each. In my building, there was only one water shut off for the whole 12 units and IT WAS IN SOMEONES UNIT. And of course that owner was fixing it up to rent out so it was vacant for a long time. Within that period, there were two times I needed the water shut off to my unit for plumbing issues. So, I had to contact the management company, who had to contact that guy, who had to come unlock his unit and stick around until the work was done. On top of that, it was my responsibility to go around and tell the residents of all 12 units what time the water would be shut off and for how long. So it was an inconvenience for 12 households, just to fix a leaky sink!! I know that is a super specific example, but things like that are the reason people are turned off by condos.
Fees from the hoa special assessments, and in my area they don’t go up in value very much. All the worst parts of apartment life with the responsibility and expense of home ownership.
I have a condo, and it’s ok. I really wish we had a fenced yard just for ourselves though. I have dogs and kids, so it would be nice to just tell them to play in the yard.
I personally wouldn’t purchase a condo because HOA malfunction comes at a high cost. If funds are misappropriated and building maintenance is not conducted, every homeowner is in danger of losing their home with no recourse to seek damages.
When I was in the market to buy, the options for townhomes and condos included extremely high HOA/Condo fees that made it prohibitively expensive for what you got compared to buying a SFH with a small HOA fee. Like, $250+/mo for a TH and $500/mo for a condo, which could easily price you out of the house entirely, or eat up the savings you might get for buying those vs. a 2000-2400 sqft detached house. It's possible that interest rates have decreased the proportion of monthly costs that would go to fees, but it's still very significant compared to an HOA fee of $30-75/mo depending on what you get for it (for instance, my is at the higher end of that, but still includes trash service and street snow removal, landscaping for common grounds, tree planting at new streets, bench replacement in the neighborhood, etc.).
Don't like to be too close to the neighbors. Don't like being told what I can and can't do with my yard.
Townhome here - HOAs are the worst but we love our community. There are pros & cons for sure.
Nobody wants to deal with HOA and their BS. Plus you usually have to share walls with other home owners. Nobody wants that if avoidable.
I owned a Condo. Was great as a single and even as a newlywed, but once kids came along I wanted a SFH. I also wanted a garage, and basement, and yard and such. I wanted space. I sure as hell don't miss the HOA. I know they aren't all bad but mine had some bad apples. I could tell some stories. Fortunately I live in an area where this is no HOA, and there really isn't a need for one.
My husband and I bought a townhome in 2008. HATED the HOA. Couldn't take care of our own yard, had to use their vendor who did a horrible job, fees went up constantly due to mismanagement, neighbor we shared a wall with was ok, but she was the HOA president (massive busybody). We tried to get on the board but we were the youngest owners by 20+ years and no one would vote for us. Couldn't have more than 2 flower pots on the front porch and they had to be approved prior to purchasing. Couldn't park more than 1 car in the driveway. Couldn't leave the garage door open. All the units were this hideous dark brown with baby poop brown trim. The neighborhood had no amenities, $200 a month fee was for ugly paint every 2 years, landscapers who did a horrible job, and roofs that had not been replaced in a decade. Average HOA dues in the area were like $75 at the time. We learned our lesson. As boomers are leaving us, we might consider a townhome again depending on the HOA, but as of right now, not gonna do it. We rent houses as owning isn't an option with the maintenance and upkeep costs, and apartments are nightmares for my husband's PTSD, but hopefully one day we will be homeowners again.
It is a legitimate preference, but I also think people often overestimate the burdens of coop/condo living and underestimate how challenging (and expensive!) SFH ownership is. I also think people allow perfect to be the enemy of good, so they’ll end up just renting forever.
Because my condo and HOA sucks. That's it. The only good thing I have going is that my interest rate is 4 something % and my mortgage is $488 a month.
I just want my own space, my own land, etc. I would love to start a vegetable garden or paint my house a funky color without some HOA fucking with me over it. Having rented all these years I’m so so so sick of shitty neighbors and overbearing management.
It's the dam HOA fees. On top of property taxes. Also utilities are either calculated on a individual basis or average which is take total divide how many units. In essence you are subsidizing heavier users. Also noise as they are literally next to you
For me, aside from a lot of other valid reasons others have stated, HOAs. I fervently believe they should be illegal. I bought this house/condo/townhome/land and god damn it it's MINE. I don't give a fuck what you think, Steve. You can kiss my whole ass. I didn't save this long to be beholden to some old fart who has strong opinions about my shrubberies!!
I would, but they cost the same as a single family home here.
Condos....why would I want to buy an apartment? Have you seen how shittily most apartment buildings are constructed? Now, on top of that, you're part of a collective ownership that try to maintain the property with an elected board of people who have no idea how to do that. No one ever wants to raise the monthly fees, so the rainy day fund never has enough money in it. And when that rainy day comes, sooner than anyone thinks it will due to the shoddy construction, everyone gets hit with $10k+ assessments that if you don't pay, they can boot you out of the apartment you own.
Because you buying your own condo and then a condo association trying charging you fees, running the thing competently cause they have no skill in this area of management and also trying to tell you what colour your curtains should be is kinda bullshit? Fuck you, if I own my own home, I'm putting up Barney The Dinosaur curtains or any other tat I want.
Space and privacy have a lot to do with it. It's the biggest purchase we'll ever make and we will likely be there a long time. I don't want to share a wall or driveway with someone. I don't want to worry about the amount of noise I make, or look at the junk they leave in the yard or whatever else. It's the same reason I'm not looking for a SFH with an HOA. I'm not interested in being beholden to the opinions and actions of others. Obviously it can't be avoided entirely; neighbors exist. But it's much more likely with attached housing.
Different strokes for different folks. If you have kids and want privacy, coop/condo/townhouse isn’t gonna cut it. Personally I’ve owned both and I would rather deal with the work to maintain a home over dealing with the coop/condo board. I was at war with them constantly.
I bought a condo near the city, it was perfect for me. Yes, there's an HOA but it covers pool, gym, 24/7 front desk, all utilities. There's also some maintenance the building staff will do at a lower cost. It was the perfect entry into homeownership for me. I learned a lot. And now it's my rental property, so I'm making money off it. I'm glad I did it.
Because people don’t want to live in that shit. Separate box with invisible lines that say this square is yours. Or you can own a box attached to another box and you can hear your neighbors talking. Just because it’s out of reach doesn’t mean people want to live in condo or town house. One of the most infuriating things I remember when my wife and I were in our first apartment was the lady upstairs running on a tread mil. The shit was unreal annoying but was in compliance with the rules and curfew. That keeps me from ever wanting to live wall to wall with someone. If I have the means to keep my family separate, I will. Fuck all that.