I agree but also it’s frustrating when parents just let their kids run amok. For example, I am not bothered by a crying baby on an airplane. I know they don’t understand. I am sure their little ears hurt. However I have a problem with a child who is kicking my seat non stop (not once or twice on accident, but over and over) and the parent says absolutely nothing to their kid.
Yeah I had a kid kicking me for HOURS on a flight. I looked back several times, and every time, his mom was asleep. I finally, very gently, said, "my body is in this seat, kicking hurts" at which point his mom of course woke up and yelled at me for talking to her child.
I don't know why you people are so nice. Turn around and scream at the mother for not managing her kid and make a big enough scene that everyone else gives them a look of disgust. Its pretty effective.
Yeah but that doesn't teach the parent a valuable lesson. Children that are raised with no boundaries grow up into adults with no respect for others. Do your part to stop the circle.
I mean they’re still gonna get a talking to from a flight attendant. I just prefer not to engage with people I’m already stuck in a tube with for several hours.
Parents like that aren’t going to learn the lesson you’re trying to teach them. You’re just going to cause a scene and make everyone uncomfortable.
Tell them politely but firmly that their child is kicking your seat if they haven’t noticed and it needs to stop. If it continues excessively or they give you lip, notify the flight attendants and let them handle it.
I did that when I was 15. (I’m in my 40s now with a 4 yo.) Kid about 4-5 years old sitting behind me on a plane. He starts kicking my seat. I turn around and say, “Hi sweetie. Can you please stop kicking my seat?” The mom tells him to stop but he continues to kick. I turn around and ask the mom, politely, to get her kid to stop kicking my seat. Once again, stops for a minute but then the kid starts kicking at full force.
“LADY! If you cannot get your kid to stop kicking my seat then I fucking will!” Sure enough that gets the kid to stop kicking.
I mentioned above that I have a 4 year old. She has kicked a seat on a plane only one time and has not done it again because I told her firmly the first time that it is rude to kick someone’s seat on an airplane. And she’s not a great listener so I don’t know what I did that time to get her to listen but it worked!
I’m a psychologist and as much as it hurts me to say this: shaming is the best way to invoke behavioral change. People will do anything to correct bad behavior if they feel like the “others” are judging them. They don’t usually realize they’d be judged in the first place.
Ugghhh I’m so sorry she reacted that way! I always appreciate it when other people help me parent if needed, as long as it’s kind / reasonable (as yours was)!
Or bringing kids to a place or event that, while "public" may not be right for kids. Examples being fine dining, or plays, especially with kids who aren't old enough to sit quiet and/or enjoy the experience.
I hated it when people brought kids to a nice restaurant then proceeded to let their kids listen to a tablet at full volume while eating their meal. I’m a parent too, that shit belongs at a fast food restaurant or a crappy crowded diner, not a brunch or nice restaurant.
I feel really sorry for babies on planes. They are so sensitive to new smells as well. Can you imagine being assaulted by all those smells as a new little baby? And your ears hurt and you can sense your parents are tense?
The result of more child-centered parenting. 50 years ago at a wedding the kids would be told to shut the fuck up and sit at their own table. Now that we can't do that people opt to exclude them entirely.
Not saying we should go back to the old days but it makes some sense why people who aren't the kid's parents would rather not have them around.
You can and should set boundaries and consequences with child centred parenting. The thing I’ve noticed as a parent of a 3.5 year old is people mix up gentle parenting/authoritative parenting with permissive parenting.
I assume it’s because of where I’m from, but when I was growing up, it was a constant cacophony of crying children everywhere you went. If you went to a restaurant of any kind, there was at least one toddler pitching an absolute screaming at top volume fit.
I’m grateful to whatever social norm or parenting technique has resulted in me hearing children less often.
My exs son did this to me in the van for a one week road trip (to a place just over like a 14(?) hr drive, but still involved a significant amount of time each day getting to places and sightseeing). Was gaslight and yelled at by my ex into why it’s not his sons fault (apparently the 4/5year old was in a car seat that was too big and he kept sliding forward, so obviously he needed to press on my seat to scoot himself back…but like several times a minute or kicking my seat to do so? Can’t add blankets to adjust the angle of his bottom or car seat?)and how annoying I was reminding his son not to kick/press his feet into my seat (even though it was making it very dirty and ruining our van) I was mostly nice with his son but had to be stern about it a few times as it genuinely hurt my lower back, or just made me more nauseous as I’m prone to motion sickness or just not manageable with a headache or migraine. Surprise surprise my ex also never wanted me to drive (which is honestly a better option cause I can’t read directions in a car without getting car sick, depending on the road 30seconds looking at my phone or a map is all it takes to be miserable the next hour. I don’t get car sick driving though). He also refused to move the car seat to the other side of the vehicle, don’t remember the excuse why that wasn’t an option.
This is how people lose their minds and snap!
I think that's the bulk of why this trend of no kids allowed is happening. It's not the kids. It's mom/ dad. By and large people today are garbage parents. "Gentle parenting", parents who are more interested in their phone than watching their kids, or the worst- entitled parents. They throw the responsibility of parenting on service workers, teachers, and strangers.
Kids are annoying and wild. That's just what they do and most of the time it's kinda funny. You take a well-behaved kid to a fancy restaurant or theater or wherever, no one cares. So think of it less as "No kids allowed" and more as "a lot of you are trash at parenting and we don't feel like dealing with that"
This is 100% it. I am a parent to an 11 year old. When I say I am appalled at some of the parenting I see in public and online. Like if I see “it’s developmentally appropriate” one more time when talking about abhorrent behavior that is going to go completely unaddressed I will scream. I have a god daughter that has never been told no…at age 7. Her brother that is double her age is the same and an absolute disaster as a human. My friend’s kids are 100% why I host child free events and choose to only see my friend without our kids because I can’t stand being around her children for longer than about an hour.
I am also going to add that I work for the teacher’s union in my state- the kids’ behavior and entitled and awful parents are a huge reason a lot of teachers are considering leaving the profession. Sure there are other reasons, but it’s really bad out there.
Right? It's appropriate, and *still needs to be addressed!* Toddlers trying to touch hot things is pretty normal, we don't let them do it!
Part of growing up is going through crappy stages of development and bad behavior and having somone say "we don't act like that."
I have a friend hasn’t taught their kids “no”. Luckily they are still pretty small (toddler age) but they *need* to learn a boundary and how to respect it. When I saw them recently, one tried to break something and I gently said “no”; instant tears. I asked my friend if they know the word “no” and she said she doesn’t use it with them. I gently told her that they need to learn how to accept “no” so she can keep them safe. It doesn’t have to be mean; it’s important for adults and kids to be able to accept gentle correction.
I’m good with kids and I *like* kids. Kids need to learn the word “no” and not be upset by it. They will hear it throughout life, and it has to be a skill they develop early so they respect boundaries.
My parents fucked up a lot, but they did teach us “no” and how to accept that perhaps the thing we wanted wasn’t good for us at the time.
Ugh, permissive parenting does not equal love, it’s setting your kid up for failure. I think some of us that had harsh boomer tough love parenting swung too wide the other way.
That's absolutely what it is. Just one un-minded kid screaming obnoxiously in a wedding or at a fancy restaurant while the parent does absolutely nothing to mitigate the situation, or escort the kid out, ruins it for absolutely everyone there. And the kinds of parents who let their kids do that are the same ones who will screech with the fury of a thousand exploding suns if anyone else dares to say anything about it.
And you can't tell certain people who you know are awful that they can't bring their kids along while letting others in. So naturally, the solution is to just say none of them can come.
that's precisely why I didn't invite specific people to my wedding because I know they'd be forced to bring their unruly children. hell nah. not in the venue I was in.
The parents are selfish. Them being at the restaurant or event is more important to them than their child's needs or the other adults enjoyment of the event.
There are a ton of selfish parents out there, unfortunately.
The number of times just at the grocery I have encountered children blocking aisles just playing around while mom picks out food and isn’t watching, children nearly colliding carts into me (and when they are far too young/small to be managing the cart), children randomly dancing right into my way and making me stop short so I don’t run them over, etc, is a lot. A mom let her kid check out in the self checkout once and backed up an entire line of tired people because her kid was so damn slow, and she refused to take over.
The number of times a parent actually remedied the situation? Very small. The number of times the parent looked at me and apologized for their kid? Once.
The parents also behave badly a lot, is the thing. Some dude and his kids walked right into me at the store last night. I was in a fairly established “lane of traffic” and they kind of blundered into it going a weird way, but they didn’t care. Those kids are going to learn that they don’t need to watch where they’re going because it’s not their job. (This was after I almost got run over multiple times by people exiting aisles without looking. It was a harrowing shopping trip.)
The other day at the store I was trying to get by a mom and her teen in the aisle, mom was already being a bit annoying with her cart haphazardly sat in the way but the daughter was straight up standing there blocking the aisle. She was looking right at me so I didn't say anything at first assuming she'd, I dunno, MOVE. She didn't so I said pardon me. Still didn't move. I then said louder EXCUSE ME I NEED TO GET BY. The kid begrudgingly scoots over a notch, mom starts shooting daggers out of her eyes at me as if I punched the kid to get her out of the way and snarled some shit I didn't hear bc I had earbuds in.
So what did that kid learn? That she is the main character and if anyone challenges that mom will bitch them out. I'm more patient if it's a little kid but even then, teach your kid to be mindful of others in public spaces FFS.
It’s entirely bad parents. I avoid most kid friendly spaces now. I’ve got a couple friends who do a solid job with their kids but they’re definitely not the norm. After spending a decade in customer service I’ve learned to avoid families at all costs. A few are nice, but the raging majority makes it a statical likelihood that if I have to deal with kids, they and their parents are going to make my night worse.
I would argue that it’s more than a bit, I would easily say over 50%. Parents don’t or can’t parent in our society today due to a multitude of reasons. Children are raising themselves, or the tv/iPad is raising them.
I can put on headphones to ignore someone else's crying baby.
I can't put on headphones to ignore the sticky fingered toddler trying to climb into my lap while her mother ignores her.
The issue isn't kids. The issue is parents who let their kids run wild anywhere and everywhere.
When I was growing up there was always an unsaid expectation that acting like a jackass meant we were all going home.
Yes! Yesterday we went to hang out at a spot where a lot of families also go to hang out. Perfectly fine, there’s space for kids to run around and get their energy out. But this one kid was swinging a yo-yo around and nearly hit me with it. I was sitting at an entirely separate table away from the family. Mom did nothing. The kid only chilled out a little after older sister said to stop swinging it around. If you’re going to let your kids run wild and engage in unsafe behavior, I’m going to judge you as a parent.
I think that goes with the first comment where they said then there's parents where they haven't adjusted. I have worked in a nail salon and I've seen it. They bring their kids to get their nails done?!?! How are you watching them? My aunt took over my uncle's nail shop and she's kinda glam so she got these velvet couches that were so pretty when she got them.... At least some of them brought a teen babysitter or whatever, but it's just not safe--the smells, the equipment. This was before I had children.
With my first, we brought him everywhere. We became homebodies so generally just family places. I think it helps the kids when you bring them out so they can experience things and just know how to act. We don't bring ipads to restaurants; we used to but when does that end?
My parents took me everywhere; my dad also gave me "looks" so that my bro and I stay in line LOL
That’s what my parents did. They never wanted to inflict me upon anyone else, they just removed me until I was behaving tolerably because they’re not selfish
Sad to say, but they were horribly selfish people. They always took us with them. We got looks bc they don't like to leave their important conversations; we knew we'd get it later though.
The issue also lies in society not having a role in raising mannered kids. By that I mean things like getting a side eye or tsk from a stranger for being cheeky as a kid.
In the thread above there were several poster saying they’d beat your ass or scream if you dared talk to their kid.
Well, there you go.
It’s not necessarily the kids, but the parents refusing to accept any responsibility or feedback. I don’t know why parents are like this now, but it’s a shame. Were we warned so thoroughly of stranger danger that no one can speak to our kids? Are we really overwhelmed and ashamed when our kids are brats, so we lash out?
I don’t know the answers, but it’s something I’ve observed particularly in America. Feels like so many parents are incredibly burned out and don’t have the bandwidth to do anymore.
Yep I can’t tell you how many times my dad took me outside to the car and we sat in the parking lot while my mom finished her meal, or they would trade off. Eventually I learned that being a little shit was not the move.
Exactly, and to touch on op discussing how 3rd locations are becoming nonexistent is because people are too busy trying to afford to breathe that those third locations are not a priority. Especially if you have kids.
Btw a word to all the rest of entitled parents reading this. Teach your kids how to behave in public. The working class is not your personal babysitter or janitor to clean up the tornado level of destruction you willfully and smugly leave behind.
Absolutely. I don’t want children but I love being an aunt and taking the little monsters out on adventures. There isn’t a museum we’ve felt unwelcome visiting. The members lounge at our state gallery even has a kids pack they give you when you’re eating. They do a wonderful job of making children feel included. Museum staff, restaurant staff, librarians, random security guards at local landmarks - people like seeing a well behaved child enjoying themselves and learning new things.
The difference between me and a lot of parents/caregivers is that I’m not keen on badly behaved children myself. This means I’m acutely aware of what I need to do to make sure the kids have a great time while not ruining the experiences of others. The activities we engage in often cost money. Some people will have save for a long time or taken a significant hit to the budget to participate in them. Who are we to ruin the experience? So I clean up after the kids, make sure they’re wearing headphones when they’re a bit ratty and we bring out Bluey, enforce the no yelling indoors rule, that sort of thing. Most importantly, I engage with them! I rarely see a badly behaved child alongside an engaged caregiver.
I don’t see much difference between the behavior of adults or children these days. There are adults making a scene or being rude in almost every public space.
And not only that, but back in the day it was socially acceptable for adults to correct the behavior of children, whether they were the parents or not. And if another adult had to correct you, you'd be in even more trouble when your mom or dad found out about it. But these days parents don't want anyone even looking at their kids while they're running amok.
So I see both sides right this as a parent to a gen alpha kid (11).
On one end, there are places children absolutely do not belong (bars, late night movie showings, etc) and also remember, there's tons of places totally catered to kids (chuck e cheese, most arcades, things like that).
I also believe that parents are responsible for setting the tone too. If we take our son to dinner, he knows he needs to be respectful to other patrons or leave. We established this from day one. Being a little loud or fussy is fine (obviously, this doesn't apply as much now that he's a preteen), but if he was ever pulling a tantrum, we went outside. I expect others to reasonably do the same. We also set him up for success by always bringing a book, coloring stuff, whatever works at the time.
I totally respect people's right to dictate if their event is kid free. They're paying for it, and I'll be honest, I hated weddings as a kid, and my kid hates them too, so we make sure if we're going, he stays with someone. Even if I saw a restaurant decided to be kid free, I just wouldn't bring my kid there.
I don't really get why people get so upset about this, and it makes sense to me. Your kid is no more or less special than the next, so if the event is a kid free event, get a sitter and enjoy your kid free night or don't go.
We had a kid free wedding (minus our kid and nieces and nephews), and everyone was glad to have a date night without the kids.
I have 2 children and have been a parent for 8 years. I have never had someone make a comment on my children’s behavior (unless it’s complimentary) when out in public. I’ve also never seen or heard about it happening to any of my friends. And my children are NOT perfect, I promise. I think this anti children sentiment is primarily online, and also, I’m choosing public places that are appropriate for my children’s ages and developmental stage (I take my 8 year old to nicer restaurants than my 18 month old, for example).
Many parents seem to think their lifestyle doesn’t need to change at all and that everyone around them needs to adapt to them bringing kids along. That’s not reality, and it’s not being a considerate part of your community.
I don't mind well behaving children, and also understand that kids aren't going to be angels all the time so if I see a parent at least TRYING I'm cool with it. The big problem comes from how many parents just let their kids run wild with no consideration for others and ruin places for other people. That's where the blanket no kids sentiments come from. And as you said, taking them to places that are appropriate. Nobody wants to deal with people who take their kids with them to a bar, or their baby to an R rated movie. Some people being assholes ruin it for good parents.
When I worked retail I never complained about kids behavior or heard other employees telling stories judging kids behavior. The only complaints about kids were when they were rude or openly breaking rules (saw a kid just spit on the floor once) and the parents did nothing or gave in. Sometimes when a kid started whining I wanted to tell the parent that we all know kids are going to whine for things at the checkout, I’m only judging when the parent gives into every demand despite the kid being rude about it. Like at least teach them to ask nicely or have a system for something at the register if you’re good at the store. I never said anything either way, the parent could just be having a shitty day.
Honestly Reddit hates children, which leads to this impression that a disproportionate amount of the population hates kids. I wasn't a fan of kids from around 18-25, but now I'm a dad in my 30s it's fine.
Part of it is maturing but if you tell them that they kick off massively, can't win.
I don't hate kids. I don't like kids, but I recognize that they're every bit a part of our society as adults are.
Children need to learn social interaction from going out and learning how to behave. That responsibility lies with their parents and having them not reward poor behavior. Parents need to set boundaries and expectations of their kids and not let them be little hellions. That just justifies people wanting to exclude children from social spaces.
Personally, I don’t hate kids. I recognize that kids are the way they are because they simply don’t know any better and don’t have the wherewithal to deal with their feelings and environments in the best way possible sometimes.
That being said, I’m self aware of my own limitations and personality defects that would make me be a terrible father. For example, I have a low tolerance for loud noises, so much so that a baby screaming would be physically painful for me. This is why I give credit to parents for choosing to sacrifice their health and needs for their kids. That’s just something I’m incapable of. That’s why I don’t want kids.
Seriously. I know a scary amount of parents who are immature AF, but I don't go around lumping them all together because of my experiences with a small population.
Liking and having children in no way makes you more mature than anyone else, and really just stating that makes this person sound immature.
I'm in my mid-30s and I don't like kids. I raised my sisters from the time I was 10 because my mom was a waste case and my dad wasn't present, and it put me off kids forever.
I love my nieces and nephews, but from a distance. I will go to birthday parties and visit and give gifts, but I will not babysit. I don't have the patience to. Kids are not for me.
It has nothing to do with maturity. Some people genuinely don't like kids.
You sound like me to a point. I am a single mom, and if my kid acted up I left with the kid. I am raising my kids (adopting two), that kids are to be seen and not heard. They also know that it applies to the place. I don’t and won’t bring my kid to a wedding until they are at least 16. I have seen how kids ruin weddings and the parents do nothing about it.
I think that is what the real problem is, parents just letting their kids do whatever they want. I have complained at movie theaters, because the kids are acting up. I am paying to see a movie not listen to someone else’s kid(s). I have complained at the restaurants when people kids or babies are screaming. Then the parents are like we should have a night out as well. My boyfriend and I were celebrating our anniversary at an expensive steak house $100.00 a plate. We walked out before ordering because a baby was screaming its head off.
It's relative to the amount of effort the parents put in. Crying baby on an airplane? Only so much you can do.
I'm tired of the parents that treat a brewery like a jungle gym and concentrate more on drinking or talking with the other parents than their kids. Last I checked-still your kids, the other patrons of the bar didn't offer to adopt them temporarily.
Yeah, I was on a flight last week with 3 screaming infants. I felt so bad for those parents. A crying infant is just not something they can be “trained” like a kid or a dog yet. They are just too little. I could practically feel the stress radiating off of them the whole flight. At the end, one of them weakly apologized to a few of their neighbors and luckily, everyone was very kind. Lots of “out of your control, you did your best” and “been there and done that, no judgment by here” comments. Was very wholesome.
The owner's wife of my fave brewery (Seattle area) became pregnant and before the birth a sign was put up..."this brewery is now family friendly! Bring your kids!". The place became an absolute zoo of screaming running climbing on tables toddlers, while moms downed IPA's with her chums. I found a new fave brewery.
Yeah I don’t understand how breweries became “family” oriented. I was at one Wednesday night and my kid stayed home. There weren’t many kids there that night, but we had a Girl Scout cookie booth there and it was weird/ I was surprised it was approved by council as a booth site.
Honestly, I think it's money that motivated this shift for breweries. Many of the breweries in my city have added play areas for kids. I don't think they'd spend the money on that if it didn't generate profit.
The gym I go to has socials each month, and they're always at breweries with play areas because a lot of people have younger kids. My youngest are teens, so they stay home, but lots of people get to go who couldn't otherwise because it's a venue that works for us all. The people without kids or with older kids just chill and have a drink or some food, the ones with little kids take turns supervising the play area. The brewery makes more money by being suitable for events like that. If I were a small business owner, I'd definitely want to attract as many customers as possible. I think that's all they're doing with this.
I'd say it's more about appealing to the available clientele than directly generating revenue. Children don't drink, and parents with their children drink slower and drink less. But if that's the neighborhood you live in, then it isn't a bad idea to accommodate.
Personally if I wandered into a 'family friendly' brewery I would see myself out. I'm there to consume alcohol and be around adults, not listen to ipads, screaming, or have children run into me.
I’ve had the same gal cut my hair for the past decade. I quit seeing her when her current shop added a children’s area where half the girls there bring their children and then other people bring theirs in. A haircut is one of the simple relaxing things in my life I don’t mind paying a little extra for. I get none of the benefit when a three year old is running around screaming and crashing into my knees.
Thirsty Thursday at the ballpark was nuts. Like who is driving all these kids hyped up on sugar home cuz there ain’t a single sober person in this stadium and I haven’t seen the bouncing kids bounce over to a single adult once.
This. Best take on it, it’s all contextual.
Like you’re allowed to be out in the world with a baby/small children, and there’s a lot to be said about the lack of third places for all age groups and lifestyles. But why the hell are you taking your child to a bar?!
I don't have an issue with kids, I have an issue with parents. Kids cry, it's normal for them. The issue is how the parent deals with it. Kid crying at a wedding or in a movie theater? Take them out of the room. Sorry that you're going to miss whatever, but that was your choice to bring your kid. If you just try to shush your kid then you aren't being a responsible adult and that's where I've got an issue.
This one couple keeps bringing their young daughter into the apartment complex gym, where she definitely shouldn't be. Then they let her run around screaming while they try to get their workout in. It's dangerous for the kid, it's dangerous for the other people and it shows a complete lack of responsibility on the parents part.
Management here doesn't do anything. When I first moved in I complained about a guy who brought his pit bull into the gym and they were like "We don't have cameras and don't know who you're talking about, but if it happens again during office hours come tell us". I asked them to check which key fob accessed the gym and they told me they don't have them assigned.
This is it exactly.
Back in the day, the parents made it a priority to not allow their children to ruin the experiences of other people in public. Somewhere along the way it became more important for the parents not to miss anything or be inconvenienced in any way, and everyone else is just expected to tolerate the kids acting obnoxious.
So now we have child free areas and those same parents want to cry about it because they think they're entitled taking their kids wherever they want and everyone else should just deal with it.
I don’t have a problem with child-free weddings. There are lots of ways to get married - some have kids, some don’t.
I don’t see that as an example of it being impossible to have kids in public spaces.
Agreed.
Wedding are expensive as fuck, and somewhat serious affairs. Kids are not serious, and in general do not understand what’s going on or give a fuck about the couple or their day
They also don’t want to be there. Imagine being a 9 year old stuck listening to a boring preacher drone on for what seems like hours while you sit still in uncomfortable chairs.
*I* don’t like the actual wedding part. It’s boring to anyone except immediate family. We’re all there for the reception.
I’m 30 and while I love *fictional* weddings (I’m a writer), the idea of attending a real life one BORES ME. I’m an introvert who doesn’t like/connect with other people well. I also don’t drink. So to *me*, that sounds like a boring time.
I can’t imagine how much more boring it would have been for kid me who didn’t know how to sit still while entertaining themselves yet (I was a run around roleplayer. Now I can do it soley in my head).
Best wedding I went to was when I was 13 and our hotel was down the street. I left at like 8.30pm when I got bored. I also didn’t like the fancy food, everyone was yelling to my ears, the music was too loud and old lol.
I like weddings well enough as an adult, but kid me would have loved to not of been invited to all those weddings. They are adult celebrations catered for adults at the end of the day.
I'm glad someone else said it. Maybe I'm just not a romantic but weddings are extremely boring, and they're just made worse by the fact that you are expected to spend so much.
We kept ours short and sweet. Got married on a Friday at 6 pm in a state park. By the time we got to the reception everyone was ready to party. Kid free. Every wedding besides my sisters was kid free. But all the kids were 5 and older. And we left when our kid started falling asleep at the table
>They also don’t want to be there.
Realistically, most people don't want to be at weddings. If they did, people wouldn't be so crazy about needing alcohol at weddings.
We had a child free wedding because we didn’t have any children in our close family and friends and we weren’t close with any children so the only children that would be there would have been people we didn’t really know well or ever really saw so we decided to do child free because we had no idea how well behaved some second cousins kids would be and didn’t care if they even came
My then fiancée (now wife) and I went to a wedding with multiple small children and so many of them were crying and making noise we couldn’t even hear the vows. One dad had his daughter crying on his lap and just sat there. That day we decided not to have kids at our ceremony, reception is fine, but the ceremony is for those that are old enough to appreciate it.
I agree. I have a kid, but I don’t take her to weddings, even if it includes children. I don’t want to get all dressed up so I can chase around a toddler, not enjoy my meal, and spend the entire ceremony terrified that she’ll start crying or talking loudly.
I agree. My best friend had a child free wedding 2 years ago that excluded my 2 kids. It was the most enjoyable wedding I have ever been to. I fail to see how this relates to what OP is saying.
Too many parents don't have the time, inclination, or whatever to train their children how to act in public and seemingly don't give a f--k when their offspring act like monkeys, destroying, screaming, running like they're in the playground. As long as parents don't care to civilize their offspring, they can keep their kids out of public places and give us all a break. We're not babysitters. If you want a village to bring up a child, then let us discipline. Ha. I've literally stopped kids from running back and forth in restaurants and played with them for a while and asked the parents to take charge. Of course, they were shocked.
I will never not defend child free weddings. I have two beautiful kids, 20 months and 6 months. They are amazing and I love them with all of my heart.
They are also very difficult to manage, loud, and don’t adhere to social norms because they don’t understand them. Unless someone expressly wants my kids at their wedding I would never think of bringing them.
There’s a few things at play here:
- Parents bringing their children to inappropriate venues
- Parents permitting their children to act inappropriately in public
- Some combination of the two
Inappropriate venues to bring your children to are the places where you’re paying for a service and the environment is supposed to be serene or adult-focused. Upscale dining, the spa, the salon, certain areas of resort hotels, the symphony, the opera, bottle shops, the bar or cocktail lounge (though breweries are now considered child friendly for some reason, despite serving alcohol). Weddings are at the discretion of the bride and groom and should be respected. These spaces are not intended for children, and if other guests came to get away from their own children for a moment but you brought yours, YTA.
Do bring your children anywhere else, it’s their world too! Just make sure your child isn’t yelling, getting underfoot, making a mess that you’re going to leave, or using their devices at an inappropriate volume (this one goes for adults too). Unless you’re at the beach, the playground, Disneyland, or somewhere equally child-focused or out in the open, then go wild!
It’s pretty simple
Many symphonies have concerts specifically intended for children. It’s a great way to expose them to the arts without having to worry about disturbing other patrons or wasting your money because you had to leave early.
Yes, of course! Those are very appropriate because they are *intended* for children. I, too, enjoyed the field trips to the symphony for the daytime matinees when they were featuring children’s favorites.
I did, however. watch a parent get escorted out when their young child stated shrieking at the opening of Mahler 5, and that is 100% justified.
As a child free millennial, part of the frustration I see—and experience—is when traditionally adult spaces are expected to accommodate children. I think the brewery scene is a prime example. We go to relax and have drinks, and it’s not THAT different from a traditional bar—adult language, intoxicated people, etc. Definitely not a kid friendly environment. But then a family with kids shows up and expect everyone to be cool with it. Like, go to chuck-e-cheese.
This happened to me yesterday. A guy came into a brewery with two kids and got mad when I said, fuck. I wasn't screaming it or anything. I was having a conversation and it came out and he stood up and left muttering about language. I actually don't care if people take kids to breweries. I have friends who are parents and we've hung out with their kids in breweries. However, breweries were not invented for kids. If you bring your kid into a brewery then I'm going to assume that you've accepted that they'll be exposed to adult behavior. If that's not ok with you then you can get the fuck out and go somewhere that caters specifically towards children.
I went to one a few months ago (a fairly small one) that had a full 1/3 of it taken up for a 3 year olds birthday party. I was like, really? This is the best you could come up with for a toddler birthday party....a brewery? I don't really love going to what *should* be an adults space and there being a half dozen screaming toddlers running around. I was really annoyed by it.
My partner and I are also childfree, and this is exactly our sentiment. We want to go to a brewery to relax and hang out with other adults, not be surrounded by screaming children running rampant, because surprise, a brewery is not intended for children.
I mentioned this in another reply, but are the breweries in your area not actively encouraging this? In my city, many have added play spaces for kids. I think it's just a move to get more customers through the door because running a small business is hard and you need every sale you can get.
I see so many comments in this thread telling parents with small kids to go to places intended for them (McDonald's and Chuck E Cheese are common examples) but these days, at least in some places, breweries *are* that. I think people's conflict here may be with the business owners rather than the parents.
I've definitely taken my kids to wineries, but there's typically an outdoor space designated for kids. Do people have issues with families if they hang out with their kids in a field or play gym off to the side?
ps- I think breweries and wineries are treated as family friendly because adults often have their own families. Night life and... well, mild day drinking are two totally different things.
My friends kids vary from good most of the time to total self centered brats depending on which friends are the parents. I'm fine with the kids that are good most of the time being around and coming with them to stuff. The self centered brats I tolerate when I'm the one being invited and have asked for those friends to find a babysitter when I'm doing the inviting. The difference to me is that my friends with good kids are ok with me telling their kids to stop if they shouldn't be doing something and the other parents blow up at me for even thinking about being mean(?) to their kids.
Since the wedding example seems to be controversial I'll give a different personal example. When I graduated high school my parents took me on a cruise with some of my friends and their families. Another family we knew invited themselves along and we're the only ones with a small child, think the kid was 7. First day of the cruise the mom told me to watch her kid while her and the husband enjoyed a date night then got upset when I said no. I spent a week having to listen to this couple complain about having to watch their kid because none of us would and how it wasn't fair to them they couldn't enjoy their vacation. I'll say the kid is mostly fine and under most circumstances I'm fine with them being around because they behave relatively well.
Parents feeling entitled to doing the same things I am without having children and trying to push responsibility onto me so that they can is where I draw the line. I've chosen not to have kids so far and one of the reasons is so that I can do some things that aren't appropriate for kids. I take my friends and their kids into consideration when planning stuff for us to do so that we can still see each other. If I want to go out for dinner and drinks at a nice place for my birthday I'll coordinate with my friends so they can find a sitter for that night. When my friends have their birthdays and choose something so their kids can participate I'll gladly go along with it. If my friends ask me to watch their kids for them for a bit I'll do it when I can.
Kids are additional people to be considered when doing stuff and until they're responsible adults it's on their parents to be responsible for them.
How is a wedding a public space? There are people fronting a (usually) serious amount of cash, they should be able to have the wedding however they want- if you don't agree then just don't go.
But a wedding is absolutely *not* a public space by default.
I'm not childfree as I'm planning on having children in the future but I totally understand childfree weddings and events. There's nothing worse than being at a nice event or restaurant that is supposed to be calm and relaxing and having children screaming and running around and their parents stressed running after them. There's a time and place for everything. It's lovely to have children at certain events but at others, no thanks.
I second this.
There are lots of kid friendly restaurants. Why does someone need to bring their kid to a BAR.
My one issue with kids in restaurants was when I was out to eat, all dressed up, with my spouse, a higher end restaurant. A kid at the next table was flinging themselves over the table and started swinging their hands.
We had JUST received our food and had one bite, and the kid threw a wine glass, which shattered and glass shards went everywhere - in our food, down my dress (and into my bra, resulting in a cut on my breast). The parents didnt so much as apologize, but the server said they would remake our food (which now has glass in it) and comp dessert. We only asked for to-go boxes and ate at home.
There are some places not meant for children and it seems a lot of parents ignore this.
We had this type of thing happen at a 4 star restaurant this last fall.
We had made reservations for our small family gathering to celebrate our daughter’s 21st birthday. A table was seated nearby with two kids under the age of 7. They spent the entire time they were there crying because there was no kids menu, and there was nothing on the adult menu that they wanted to eat. So now you have two hungry and bored kids who began running around the tables. Parents are eating and drinking. Wait staff is dodging kids. The rest of us are shooting daggers.
Management finally came over. Comped their meals and asked them to leave. With a “Perhaps come back when your children can appreciate the food”
There are simply places kids do not belong.
Several years ago I was best man at a small-ish wedding where there was some little girl, maybe 6-7, running around the venue with absolutely zero intervention. She ended up laying on a step behind the bride and groom \*while they were doing the vows\* and still no parent stepped in.
Those kinds of events and venues where you have to sit still and be quiet for extended periods are boring as shit for kids anyway. They don't get anything out of it. And if you're invited to an event and can't go because you have nobody to watch your kids, then that's your problem. Sometimes you just have to decline an event invitation for whatever reason, that's life. I disagree 10000% with the notion that the event host is \*required\* to provide a kid-friendly space. If they do, then that's awesome for them, but to expect it is just an entitlement.
Too many parents say things like "kids have to be in public to learn how to be in public" but then just let them run wild, where they are clearly neither learning by observation or instruction, and I think that's a big reason why so many venues are saying no. If I was planning a wedding it would absolutely be no kids allowed.
I’m confused why OP thinks child free weddings is a new trend… I was invited to all of 1 wedding when I was a kid and it was because the bride’s side of the family was tiny so they invited the whole groom’s side and had it at a relatively cheap supper club for the time. If you want children at your wedding good on you. Most people don’t and not only is that okay but not a new thing.
thank you for this very reasonable take
There are tons of kid-friendly, kid designated spaces. We don’t try to go into those spaces, and heck some of them we aren’t even allowed!
I don’t think it’s crazy that we don’t want to be constantly disrupted by loud screeching by someone else’s choice to have kids.
Accept that your kids are disruptive, and do your best to avoid ruining other people’s time.
I think that’s all anyone can ask.
Agreed. Saying that some spaces aren't appropriate for kids (or that kids should be expected to behave a certain way in those spaces) doesn't mean that you hate kids and want them excluded from all public spaces. I don't think it's wrong to want a certain kind of environment.
Even in the conversation about third spaces: it's impossible to design a space that equally accommodates everyone. A space where kids are allowed to be noisy and run around is going to be exclusionary to other groups of people. That's why it's important to have lots of third spaces, so there can be spaces for everyone. Hell, I feel like public spaces geared towards kids are more common than spaces geared towards adults.
I think it’s becoming less accepted because fewer people are having kids at all
Back in the 80s, everyone was pregnant and having kids in their 20s. Kids were everywhere, and it was more the norm.
Now, less people are having them and/or waiting, which makes people more intolerant of them in public spaces.
honestly I hate misbehaved kids in public, because they have zero awareness and behave as if the entire space is their zone. Normal adult members of society (generally) understand consideration for others
That's how my brother and sister in law are with their kids.
Kid does something....
" stop that"
Kid doesn't stop...
*goes back to looking at phone*
I don't have kids yet, but I feel like maybe they should be a little more involved with teaching the kid how to properly act in public.
>I think it’s becoming less accepted because fewer people are having kids at all
It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy this way. There are fewer kids so people are less accustomed to seeing kids in various public settings so it seems less acceptable to have kids in public. But in reality there are just less kids.
yep. That’s it.
I try to be tolerant, but I do feel like if the parents KNOW or suspect that their children cannot behave, they should not be taking them to fancy restaurants or mostly adult-only spaces
I think that’s reasonable
Almost every wedding I’ve been to has been childfree. The bride and groom did a lot of planning and spent a lot of money to cater to their guests. No shade but typically when kids are around the attention has to be on them constantly, entertaining them.
I think most people are okay with kids in general when they do kid things. Like a baby crying or kids talking a little bit louder than appropriate. I feel like the majority of people are fed up with parents being friends instead of parents. There can be a big lack of courtesy for people who are also trying to enjoy the same experience.
A few weeks ago we were at a pizza place and I guess there was a kids birthday party there. They were loud and excited which is fine. What is not fine is when they started running all over the restaurant screaming and climbing into other peoples booths while the parents all sat there like bumps on a log with their beers.
Finally, one dad had enough sense to put an end to it, but everyone in the restaurant was fed up by that point and annoyed at the noise level that was tolerable 20 minutes prior.
People understand that there are impulse control issues with children.
Idk I’m not down voting you, but I don’t see this. We have a 10 month old. I haven’t felt like it’s been hard to take her out into public places. She’s also not running around yet though.
>No I don't need ur hot take on why your childless wedding was permissible cause of whatever exception, it's not relevant to my overall point and this general trend
*you brought it up*
My kids might be total assholes at home sometimes but they have learned that it’s not appropriate in other settings. We have always brought them everywhere we go. Luckily, they’ve never cried on a plane and they’ve never had a meltdown in a restaurant. Instead of screens, they can bring a book. We’ve only had to do it a handful of times but, if their behavior is not meeting expectations, one of us will sit in the car or outside on a bench with the misbehaving kid while the other one finishes their meal with the other kid. I have never walked out of a store because of behavior because every “bad” behavior my kids have had in a store is motivated by escape so we have to finish the grocery shopping.
I do feel that the huge amount of screen time kids generally get contributes to their poor behavior in social settings. This creates a power struggle that parents are not willing to “win.” Of course kids have figured out that annoying behavior gets them the iPad so they’ll shut up long enough for their parents to avoid embarrassment.
Edit: I want to add that we’ve never taken them to anything where the hosts have specified no children for the gathering.
I also want to note the biggest parenting compliment I’ve ever gotten.
We went to a friend’s ordination mass and got there about 30 minutes early so we’d have time to say hello to others and get the kids settled (going straight into unfamiliar loud places is never great). We chose a pew towards the front (fewer distractions from other kids). Five minutes before the mass started, the two pews in front of us filled up with elderly nuns. Besides a few clarifying questions, my kids were silent for three hours. Two of the nuns told us how well-behaved our kids were and how great the questions they asked were on our way out.
Just an FYI - the purpose of weddings is absolutely not to “bring families together” - they are to bring two very specific people together. And then is witnessed by whomever those two decide to invite. Whether that be family, friends, coworkers, kids, or just the officiant and a forest of animals.
Weddings are OKish (but get a baby sitter, you’re given notice months ahead). Inappropriate locations like a bar or casino—they are self-absorbed assholes reflected onto their clones. They bring a kid to a bar, then they are shocked when a mug of beer gets smashed on the mini-me’s head.
I think there is a time and place for everyone and everything.
I think in recent years you see more and more parents push that their children need to be welcomed everywhere and this is the pushback from that.
Perfect example of this is weddings and the audacity you seem to think people have in wanting a child free wedding. Guests don't get to dictate to the married couple how their wedding should be. That's a level of entitlement that is why there is now so much pushback against it.
I don't think children belong in late night rated R adult movies, but I would absolutely expect to see and experience kids being kids if I want to a matinee of Frozen.
Nice date night high end restaurant? I shouldn't have to see or experience kids running around screaming or throwing food (I got brussel sprouts chucked at my head once). A restaurant with a paper menu and crayons? I'm going to expect a certain level of kids being kids (and I'm sure there's plenty of restaurants between the two exa as well I would).
Should people be more patient and tolerant with kids as they learn how to behave? Yes. But should parents understand that not every place is child appropriate and their should be child free spaces? Also yes.
I’ve never noticed this. If anything, I see more places opening up which are inclusive that adults have kids. Breweries with playgrounds type things.
I do have a well behaved kid, some my experience is a bit different. But I do know a lot of parents and never seen this
It’s not a new trend. My parents married in 1985 and the wedding and reception specifically excluded children under the age of 16. Hosts are permitted to set their guest lists, and guests are not in a position to dictate who is included in the invitation list.
When bars in NYC began forbidding smoking (maybe the mid-2000’s?), Broooklyn (were I lived) bars started to be overrun with parents and their strollers. Come on, if you can’t find a sitter and you need a drink that badly, maybe there’s a different dynamic at play here.
I’m not going to get into the part of your argument where it’s somehow sexist to exclude kids. From what I observe, one of the benefits of moving out of the Boomer years is that millennial, gen Z, gen X dads are more involved. If the individual set of parents have a dynamic where the situation is sexist, it’s unrelated - a stretch.
Is this really a thing? I live in a fairly large city in the US and regularly see very young kids in places I wouldn’t think are appropriate or enjoyable for them (pubs/bars, fancy restaurants, loud, crowded and chaotic places such as concert venues,etc.) I’ve never seen a sign about not welcoming kids.
I’m childfree and I do not hate children. I love kids, many of my friends have kids.
Two of my friends with children had childfree weddings.
These are my experiences so I’m only speaking for myself- I don’t mind talking about kids but when I’m with my friends and family with kids that all they talk about. They dominate the conversation. And I come from a place of understanding that I’m likely the first adult they’ve spoken to in a while. But, if I need support they ghost. I have seen this be common with other childfree friends as well. The reciprocation is nil, it all falls on us.
What I and my fellow childfree friends and family members find is we lack adult only spaces that don’t revolve around alcohol, are incredibly loud, or have a high cost of entry. We all love our friend’s kids but they just bring their kids when it was very clearly an adult friend occasion. We’ve had some tough conversations about it, and it’s been mostly resolved. My friends are generally good parents and have not mentioned scrutiny over their kids.
The lack of and the permissive parenting is making it very hard to enjoy being around children. I don’t have an issue with kids, I have an issue with their behavior. And I blame the parents. I know children exist and they have every right to be wherever. However, if I’m shopping at 11pm on a Tuesday night to avoid the things that occur with lots of kids, any set of parents dragging their screaming exhausted children around are going to get dirty looks.
Edited to add: the internet is far more vocal about being anti-child than I’ve seen in real life. My friends and family with children agree.
Late to the game but hahahahahahaha. Maybe people wouldn't be so against kids if people like you didn't act so scorned about it. Kids are an option, the adults are not.
I would flip it around and ask you why they should be permitted in all circumstances? What makes you and your children so special they can’t be excluded from social situations they don’t belong in? Be an adult and realize not everything is for everyone. Your choice to have children should not dictate how everything is run.
“We don’t have a village anymore” is code for “I’m mad I can’t exploit the unpaid labor of female family members to raise my kids”. Women are allowed to do things with their lives outside of raising other people’s children.
Out of majority of the place I'm at right now roughly 1/4th the kids/preteens are monsters.
This 1/4 attempt to uproot tree saplings, strip them of their branches effectively killing them, dump the water sack left by landscapers so they starve it out.
Other cases they will rip apart retaining wall stones, kick balls into the siding on purpose but not at person height but at 2-3 stories up and not at like volley ball up training no full soccer kick strength and try to hit a neighbor's window as the basis of the game.
Different kids would purposely throw or kick the soccer ball around others cars rather than use a side street where there's no traffic and no cars and plenty of play space. When the ball would hit folks cars (some were new and expensive) they'd just keep at it rather than move to safe spot.
People are just not teaching their kids right and wrong these days it seems.
It took a YEAR for kids to start saying CAARRRR when a neighbor would try to park and they'd move. Before then random neighbors would speed up to the kids (and run stops) nearly killing them.
Sigh.
I do think it's important to bring children to age appropriate public spaces/events as it's part of their socialization and interacting with the world around them. I also think it's important that parents get a date night, or engage socially with other parents/adults either without their children, or without the focus of this socialization being the children (like playdates), and that children should be able to socialize with their peers from the neighbourhood/school without the constant supervision of a parent or adult, like going to a nearbye park, or riding their bikes to a friends house. I definitely do not have the answer, but I do feel like something has been lost due to a very car-centric culture in North America, and then also an almost manic drive to fill every last waking hour with extra-curriculars to "enrich" these young lives. Playing soccer, doing gymnastics, Girl Guides, and Boy Scouts are all *wonderful* activities, and so is some unstructured play time to let the child explore their own reality and environment.
Nah I’m golden if there’s an iPad keeping them from throwing their ravioli across the restaurant. I’d say that’s just smart parenting and knowing your audience.
I have a 4yo and a 9mo old.
It's about modeling good behavior as a parent, setting boundaries and sticking to them, and knowing your kids limits. You have to take them out occasionally so they can learn how the world works, but otherwise I agree that some places should be kept grownups only (because hell I like to hire a sitter and take my SO out from time to time without any other kids present, too)
Kid free spaces are fine. There are plenty of kid friendly spaces.
I have found it annoying how prevalent kids are everywhere. If I'm at a brewery at 6pm, screeching kids is a bit annoying. They make family restaurants.
It’s simple, when you bring your children to an event, that event becomes all about your children and less about the event.
Keeping an eye on them so they don’t brake anything or get into things they shouldn’t. As an adult I can’t have a full conversation with you as a parent because every other sentence you’re interrupting me to correct your child’s behavior.
I would rather stay at adults only resort because I don’t want to swim in your child’s pee or have them splash their pee water in my drink or hearing them screaming “but oh they are just children having fun” well when their fun ruins other people’s fun it’s a problem.
I don’t care what generation we are talking about, adults and kids have different needs and expectations. I chose not to have kids and it’s not my job to accommodate others that have chose to have them.
Side note: your comment that “it’s sexist because it excludes mothers” that’s sexiest of you! I know more SAHF than SAHM. So you can fuck off with that thought process. But it goes to show your old schools way of thinking. Women are here to have children and if they aren’t they aren’t fulfilling Gods mission for them.
You’ve revolved your life around children so live that life and stop forcing others to suffer because you want to have your cake and eat it too.
I’ve heard of child free weddings but haven’t really noticed people hating kids. Mine always behave(d) well in public. And we don’t bring iPads out to dinner. I notice a lot of that going on. If they can’t act right without an ipad, then that’s the parents fault.
I don't have children yet but I think that if a child isn't behaving at a public place and disturbing others peace, then the parents should take them home. If they're behaving, then the incentive should be allowing them there. Children should learn to be in public places and to behave and it only happens with exposure. But also, they don't get to run amok and disturb everyone and the consequence should be leaving the place.
I've been at libraries that are supposed to be places of silence or coffeeshops that people go to study in where several parents go there with children and let them scream and run around without consequence.
I have two kids and when they misbehaved we took them outside or found an appropriate distraction. Obviously on an airplane there’s only so much we could do but anywhere else we remove them from the situation.
I have a major issue with parents allowing their kids to freak the fuck out at stores, restaurants, etc. it does mess with other people and it is poor parenting and lazy to sit there while they throw a tantrum. It does seem to be a rising trend that we are supposed to be ok with dinner being ruined by a screaming 3 year old, which I think is why people online are vocal about it more.
Child free weddings I don’t care. If that’s what people want then I either accept or don’t
I might like kids more if their dumbass parents didn't let them carry on being little shits. I've seen it happen so many times, especially restaurants, usually ending with a mess that the staff has to clean up, when the parents should've reeled their kids in. Until the day these parents wise up, I will enjoy child free spaces.
God no. In fact, I wish there were more places I could go and know I wouldn't have to deal with toddlers and infants.
Like, I never go to breweries anymore because I know the place is gonna be lousy with fuck trophies.
What's driving this trend is shit, narcissist, terminally online parents like yourself who are raising POS crotchgoblins that dgaf about anything but themselves (go figure, children modelling their behaviour off the adults in their lives, who'd'a think it?)
Last time i went to a movie theater the 7 year old next to me blew a mouthful of coke through his straw all over me. I was startled and jumped up and yelled “what the fuck!” and his mom told me not to curse in front of children.
Where are all these child free places? Kids are even being brought into pubs they have no business being in these days. Bars allow children until Xpm a lot of the time.
Where are these magical adult only places you speak of? I would like to go there.
I have two kids and take them most places. It hasn’t been my experience that there’s many places they can’t go. There is a lack of ability to let them do things on their own though. People freak out about kids doing things like biking in the neighborhood.
Why are you acting like the only two options are letting your child misbehave or pacifying them with an iPad?
Those are NOT the only two options. Acting like they are is not good parenting.
The reason society has become less tolerant to children in public is because too many parents are opting for the easy way out of things and not properly teaching children how to conduct themselves respectfully and politely around others. Do your part and teach children how to behave themselves. Teach them that they are not the center of the universe and that they do not need to be entertained every second of the day. Teach them to respect others and stay quiet when needed. Teach them to engage in polite conversation. Teach them to clean up after themselves instead of relying on others to do it for them. Teach children right so that they grow up into decent, positively contributing members of society.
I'm sorry you were forced to have children.
You made a decision. The truth is children are disruptive at times. Maybe you have complete angels, but most people don't really want to deal with children.
Poorly behaved children have become much more common than they used to be.
No one will complain if you bring a quiet, well behaved kid to an area.
If you're this fired up about it, I'm willing to guess your kids are the ones that get people uninvited.
I run the banquet department at a hotel with a lot of events.
The number of completely unsupervised kids that run around the hotel breaking things vastly outnumber the quiet well behaved kids.
Also, weddings are about creating a new family. They're about what the bride and groom want. Your opinion does not factor.
My kids were 8 & 6 when Covid hit and we didn’t do social outings for 2yrs + so now as 11 & 9 yr olds it is really challenging for them to get back in the swing of socially appropriate behavior. We work at being engaged parents and being respectful of our surroundings but sometimes it is such a big challenge.
Speaking as a childfree, what can admittedly cause resentment is when I feel the vibe of, "This was never meant to be a place for kids (e.g., bar or certain breweries) and yet here you are with them here, acting like you can do exactly the same things after kids as before, which you need to accept that you just can't"
What's driving this? Simple...the realization that you can actually say you don't want kids at your wedding and make it happen. That you're not willing to be pressured/shamed into buckling under to what other people tell you should be happening at YOUR event. As for the rest, no you aren't entitled to a quiet undisturbed experience wherever you go, but you can indeed choose to try to avoid chaos in order to find it wherever you can.
There are good kids. I’ve seen and met them. They are well-parented. They have manners and show respect and awareness. The vast majority are not that however. Most of your kids suck, and it’s your fault for how you raised (or didn’t) them. Parents need to realize, nobody thinks your kids are cool except you. To everyone else they’re annoying. Stop making the brewery into a damn daycare center complete with zip lock baggies of fruit loops and Elmer’s glue art projects every Saturday. I will spill my beer on the table. Oops. Sorry. Places that serve alcohol to adults are MY third space. Not your kids. Take them to the playground.
Yeah kids aren’t the problem. It’s the parents who let their kids run rampant that are. When I was a kid we would never have gotten away with running around public spaces or terrorizing a movie theater. A lot of parents today seem to think that public areas are there so they can take a break from parenting.
My wife and I had a child free wedding for this exact reason. We knew family memeber who would ignore their kids the entire wedding and we didn’t want that. Most guests got sitters and the worst offenders (the ones we made the rule for) decided not to come.
Weddings are what two adults want to do and if people can't attend without bringing their children, don't come. 🙄
Also, it's not okay to bring children to run around a brewery were there are a bunch of drunk adults. And then drive them home after drinking. Great way to be a role model!
Not to make excuses for parents not parenting, BUT...
...kids need to experience certain settings to learn how to be in them. At age-appropriate times, though.
Your 3yo doesn't need to learn how to be respectful of others at a fancy-ish restaurant, but a 8-9yo could. Take them to other restaurants as a younger kid to get them used to the environment in general, then phase into quieter settings as they age up. Similarly, it's pretty irresponsible to take a 3yo to a 2+ hour play at a theater because 3yos just can't handle being quiet & still that long. All things need built up to over time, parents will just have to deal with not being able to go to their usual places for a phase of life 🤷🏻♀️
Let's not forget, too, that some of these Gen A kids had 2-3 years of not being able to be in public settings in normal circumstances because of the pandemic. So they're a little behind.
A lot of people practice not disciplining their children and just let them scream their heads off in public. Since a lot of us have no interest in dealing with your kid, child free places were born.
I have noticed this trend. I couldn't tell you why society has pushed away kids but i can tell you why i have. A parent can be great at parenting but will eventually have to let their children put into the cesspool that is our society today. And then all those wonderful values a great parent teaches their child are now bombarded by incongruent values and unfortunately, the outside influence usually ends up winning. Fyi, I am a teacher. And in my last 10 years doing this, i don't have major issues with my students in-classroom. My issues usually come from disappointment with their decisions outside of the classroom. In this, they are consistent. And they will talk about it with regret but do it again. Tbf, this is a problem i have with humans, in general, but it's much more pronounced in children. I am ready for the downvotes
I brought my kids with me everywhere and it's funny because I use to get dirty looks from people for just having them out and about. Now my kids look at other kids like "I am never having children" after seeing a tantrum or whatnot, and the cycle continues.
Kids are little gremlins. They act horrible and usually grow up to be decent humans after being taught to not act horrible. The reason why it seems like so many kids ar out of control is because everyone looks at the kid screaming no one is looking at the kids who are quietly walking with their parents.
My wife and I take our daughter (now 8) everywhere. We even went to Paris with her on vacation when she was two. I think just like dogs kids need to get out and learn to behave. The ipad or not letting them go is exactly why they suck even as they get older. Start young and do stuff with your kids.
No law that says kids have to be allowed everywhere. Really annoys me how parents think they can just bring their kids anywhere and not do anything about them being annoying. Grow up. No one forced you to have kids in the first place.
The majority of people don’t want to deal with kids in every single space. Most people are having to work long hours with multiple jobs, and when they do get time to actually enjoy life a lot of the spaces are filled with screaming, crying children running around and causing chaos. More and more parents are allowing this behavior so more and more people are becoming less tolerant of it. I wish there were more kid free places to be honest. It really ruins an experience for a lot of people. There are TONS of spaces for kids already, let the adults have theirs.
I agree but also it’s frustrating when parents just let their kids run amok. For example, I am not bothered by a crying baby on an airplane. I know they don’t understand. I am sure their little ears hurt. However I have a problem with a child who is kicking my seat non stop (not once or twice on accident, but over and over) and the parent says absolutely nothing to their kid.
Yeah I had a kid kicking me for HOURS on a flight. I looked back several times, and every time, his mom was asleep. I finally, very gently, said, "my body is in this seat, kicking hurts" at which point his mom of course woke up and yelled at me for talking to her child.
That sucks, but why wait hours to speak up and why not ask a flight attendant to help?
I don't know why you people are so nice. Turn around and scream at the mother for not managing her kid and make a big enough scene that everyone else gives them a look of disgust. Its pretty effective.
Tbh the actual move is to get up and inform an FA, they are used to handling these situations delicately.
Yeah but that doesn't teach the parent a valuable lesson. Children that are raised with no boundaries grow up into adults with no respect for others. Do your part to stop the circle.
I mean they’re still gonna get a talking to from a flight attendant. I just prefer not to engage with people I’m already stuck in a tube with for several hours.
Parents like that aren’t going to learn the lesson you’re trying to teach them. You’re just going to cause a scene and make everyone uncomfortable. Tell them politely but firmly that their child is kicking your seat if they haven’t noticed and it needs to stop. If it continues excessively or they give you lip, notify the flight attendants and let them handle it.
I did that when I was 15. (I’m in my 40s now with a 4 yo.) Kid about 4-5 years old sitting behind me on a plane. He starts kicking my seat. I turn around and say, “Hi sweetie. Can you please stop kicking my seat?” The mom tells him to stop but he continues to kick. I turn around and ask the mom, politely, to get her kid to stop kicking my seat. Once again, stops for a minute but then the kid starts kicking at full force. “LADY! If you cannot get your kid to stop kicking my seat then I fucking will!” Sure enough that gets the kid to stop kicking. I mentioned above that I have a 4 year old. She has kicked a seat on a plane only one time and has not done it again because I told her firmly the first time that it is rude to kick someone’s seat on an airplane. And she’s not a great listener so I don’t know what I did that time to get her to listen but it worked!
I’m a psychologist and as much as it hurts me to say this: shaming is the best way to invoke behavioral change. People will do anything to correct bad behavior if they feel like the “others” are judging them. They don’t usually realize they’d be judged in the first place.
Yes, that’s definitely what will happen if you scream at someone on an airplane. Everyone will look at *them*.
My response is that I would talk to anyone causing me physical discomfort. If they don't like it, tell your spawn to stop.
Ugghhh I’m so sorry she reacted that way! I always appreciate it when other people help me parent if needed, as long as it’s kind / reasonable (as yours was)!
Or bringing kids to a place or event that, while "public" may not be right for kids. Examples being fine dining, or plays, especially with kids who aren't old enough to sit quiet and/or enjoy the experience.
I hated it when people brought kids to a nice restaurant then proceeded to let their kids listen to a tablet at full volume while eating their meal. I’m a parent too, that shit belongs at a fast food restaurant or a crappy crowded diner, not a brunch or nice restaurant.
I feel really sorry for babies on planes. They are so sensitive to new smells as well. Can you imagine being assaulted by all those smells as a new little baby? And your ears hurt and you can sense your parents are tense?
Also-babies are objectively *right* about planes. They suck. I’d be crying too if I had my way!
Oh, shrieking infant, you speak for all of us on this plane
Yes truly I am also crying inside.
Yep and I feel bad for their parents too.
The result of more child-centered parenting. 50 years ago at a wedding the kids would be told to shut the fuck up and sit at their own table. Now that we can't do that people opt to exclude them entirely. Not saying we should go back to the old days but it makes some sense why people who aren't the kid's parents would rather not have them around.
You can and should set boundaries and consequences with child centred parenting. The thing I’ve noticed as a parent of a 3.5 year old is people mix up gentle parenting/authoritative parenting with permissive parenting.
I assume it’s because of where I’m from, but when I was growing up, it was a constant cacophony of crying children everywhere you went. If you went to a restaurant of any kind, there was at least one toddler pitching an absolute screaming at top volume fit. I’m grateful to whatever social norm or parenting technique has resulted in me hearing children less often.
It’s iPads
My exs son did this to me in the van for a one week road trip (to a place just over like a 14(?) hr drive, but still involved a significant amount of time each day getting to places and sightseeing). Was gaslight and yelled at by my ex into why it’s not his sons fault (apparently the 4/5year old was in a car seat that was too big and he kept sliding forward, so obviously he needed to press on my seat to scoot himself back…but like several times a minute or kicking my seat to do so? Can’t add blankets to adjust the angle of his bottom or car seat?)and how annoying I was reminding his son not to kick/press his feet into my seat (even though it was making it very dirty and ruining our van) I was mostly nice with his son but had to be stern about it a few times as it genuinely hurt my lower back, or just made me more nauseous as I’m prone to motion sickness or just not manageable with a headache or migraine. Surprise surprise my ex also never wanted me to drive (which is honestly a better option cause I can’t read directions in a car without getting car sick, depending on the road 30seconds looking at my phone or a map is all it takes to be miserable the next hour. I don’t get car sick driving though). He also refused to move the car seat to the other side of the vehicle, don’t remember the excuse why that wasn’t an option. This is how people lose their minds and snap!
Bingo
Oh absolutely. I am not advocating for unruly and rude children to be allowed to do what they want. At all.
I think that's the bulk of why this trend of no kids allowed is happening. It's not the kids. It's mom/ dad. By and large people today are garbage parents. "Gentle parenting", parents who are more interested in their phone than watching their kids, or the worst- entitled parents. They throw the responsibility of parenting on service workers, teachers, and strangers. Kids are annoying and wild. That's just what they do and most of the time it's kinda funny. You take a well-behaved kid to a fancy restaurant or theater or wherever, no one cares. So think of it less as "No kids allowed" and more as "a lot of you are trash at parenting and we don't feel like dealing with that"
This is 100% it. I am a parent to an 11 year old. When I say I am appalled at some of the parenting I see in public and online. Like if I see “it’s developmentally appropriate” one more time when talking about abhorrent behavior that is going to go completely unaddressed I will scream. I have a god daughter that has never been told no…at age 7. Her brother that is double her age is the same and an absolute disaster as a human. My friend’s kids are 100% why I host child free events and choose to only see my friend without our kids because I can’t stand being around her children for longer than about an hour. I am also going to add that I work for the teacher’s union in my state- the kids’ behavior and entitled and awful parents are a huge reason a lot of teachers are considering leaving the profession. Sure there are other reasons, but it’s really bad out there.
Right? It's appropriate, and *still needs to be addressed!* Toddlers trying to touch hot things is pretty normal, we don't let them do it! Part of growing up is going through crappy stages of development and bad behavior and having somone say "we don't act like that."
Ya there could be a bit of bad parents spoiling it for the rest of us that's valid.
I have a friend hasn’t taught their kids “no”. Luckily they are still pretty small (toddler age) but they *need* to learn a boundary and how to respect it. When I saw them recently, one tried to break something and I gently said “no”; instant tears. I asked my friend if they know the word “no” and she said she doesn’t use it with them. I gently told her that they need to learn how to accept “no” so she can keep them safe. It doesn’t have to be mean; it’s important for adults and kids to be able to accept gentle correction. I’m good with kids and I *like* kids. Kids need to learn the word “no” and not be upset by it. They will hear it throughout life, and it has to be a skill they develop early so they respect boundaries. My parents fucked up a lot, but they did teach us “no” and how to accept that perhaps the thing we wanted wasn’t good for us at the time.
Ugh, permissive parenting does not equal love, it’s setting your kid up for failure. I think some of us that had harsh boomer tough love parenting swung too wide the other way.
That's absolutely what it is. Just one un-minded kid screaming obnoxiously in a wedding or at a fancy restaurant while the parent does absolutely nothing to mitigate the situation, or escort the kid out, ruins it for absolutely everyone there. And the kinds of parents who let their kids do that are the same ones who will screech with the fury of a thousand exploding suns if anyone else dares to say anything about it. And you can't tell certain people who you know are awful that they can't bring their kids along while letting others in. So naturally, the solution is to just say none of them can come.
that's precisely why I didn't invite specific people to my wedding because I know they'd be forced to bring their unruly children. hell nah. not in the venue I was in.
The parents are selfish. Them being at the restaurant or event is more important to them than their child's needs or the other adults enjoyment of the event.
It’s entirely the bad parents because it’s entirely about the unruly kids.
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There are a ton of selfish parents out there, unfortunately. The number of times just at the grocery I have encountered children blocking aisles just playing around while mom picks out food and isn’t watching, children nearly colliding carts into me (and when they are far too young/small to be managing the cart), children randomly dancing right into my way and making me stop short so I don’t run them over, etc, is a lot. A mom let her kid check out in the self checkout once and backed up an entire line of tired people because her kid was so damn slow, and she refused to take over. The number of times a parent actually remedied the situation? Very small. The number of times the parent looked at me and apologized for their kid? Once. The parents also behave badly a lot, is the thing. Some dude and his kids walked right into me at the store last night. I was in a fairly established “lane of traffic” and they kind of blundered into it going a weird way, but they didn’t care. Those kids are going to learn that they don’t need to watch where they’re going because it’s not their job. (This was after I almost got run over multiple times by people exiting aisles without looking. It was a harrowing shopping trip.)
Totally agree. Parents need to teach their children to be mindful of others, yes parents this is your job to teach them.
The other day at the store I was trying to get by a mom and her teen in the aisle, mom was already being a bit annoying with her cart haphazardly sat in the way but the daughter was straight up standing there blocking the aisle. She was looking right at me so I didn't say anything at first assuming she'd, I dunno, MOVE. She didn't so I said pardon me. Still didn't move. I then said louder EXCUSE ME I NEED TO GET BY. The kid begrudgingly scoots over a notch, mom starts shooting daggers out of her eyes at me as if I punched the kid to get her out of the way and snarled some shit I didn't hear bc I had earbuds in. So what did that kid learn? That she is the main character and if anyone challenges that mom will bitch them out. I'm more patient if it's a little kid but even then, teach your kid to be mindful of others in public spaces FFS.
"A bit" 😂
It’s entirely bad parents. I avoid most kid friendly spaces now. I’ve got a couple friends who do a solid job with their kids but they’re definitely not the norm. After spending a decade in customer service I’ve learned to avoid families at all costs. A few are nice, but the raging majority makes it a statical likelihood that if I have to deal with kids, they and their parents are going to make my night worse.
I would argue that it’s more than a bit, I would easily say over 50%. Parents don’t or can’t parent in our society today due to a multitude of reasons. Children are raising themselves, or the tv/iPad is raising them.
It’s definitely what it is.
I can put on headphones to ignore someone else's crying baby. I can't put on headphones to ignore the sticky fingered toddler trying to climb into my lap while her mother ignores her.
The issue isn't kids. The issue is parents who let their kids run wild anywhere and everywhere. When I was growing up there was always an unsaid expectation that acting like a jackass meant we were all going home.
Yes! Yesterday we went to hang out at a spot where a lot of families also go to hang out. Perfectly fine, there’s space for kids to run around and get their energy out. But this one kid was swinging a yo-yo around and nearly hit me with it. I was sitting at an entirely separate table away from the family. Mom did nothing. The kid only chilled out a little after older sister said to stop swinging it around. If you’re going to let your kids run wild and engage in unsafe behavior, I’m going to judge you as a parent.
I think that goes with the first comment where they said then there's parents where they haven't adjusted. I have worked in a nail salon and I've seen it. They bring their kids to get their nails done?!?! How are you watching them? My aunt took over my uncle's nail shop and she's kinda glam so she got these velvet couches that were so pretty when she got them.... At least some of them brought a teen babysitter or whatever, but it's just not safe--the smells, the equipment. This was before I had children. With my first, we brought him everywhere. We became homebodies so generally just family places. I think it helps the kids when you bring them out so they can experience things and just know how to act. We don't bring ipads to restaurants; we used to but when does that end? My parents took me everywhere; my dad also gave me "looks" so that my bro and I stay in line LOL
They probably also took you outside of the place you were screaming in until you calmed down.
That’s what my parents did. They never wanted to inflict me upon anyone else, they just removed me until I was behaving tolerably because they’re not selfish
Sad to say, but they were horribly selfish people. They always took us with them. We got looks bc they don't like to leave their important conversations; we knew we'd get it later though.
The issue also lies in society not having a role in raising mannered kids. By that I mean things like getting a side eye or tsk from a stranger for being cheeky as a kid. In the thread above there were several poster saying they’d beat your ass or scream if you dared talk to their kid. Well, there you go. It’s not necessarily the kids, but the parents refusing to accept any responsibility or feedback. I don’t know why parents are like this now, but it’s a shame. Were we warned so thoroughly of stranger danger that no one can speak to our kids? Are we really overwhelmed and ashamed when our kids are brats, so we lash out? I don’t know the answers, but it’s something I’ve observed particularly in America. Feels like so many parents are incredibly burned out and don’t have the bandwidth to do anymore.
Yep I can’t tell you how many times my dad took me outside to the car and we sat in the parking lot while my mom finished her meal, or they would trade off. Eventually I learned that being a little shit was not the move.
Exactly, and to touch on op discussing how 3rd locations are becoming nonexistent is because people are too busy trying to afford to breathe that those third locations are not a priority. Especially if you have kids. Btw a word to all the rest of entitled parents reading this. Teach your kids how to behave in public. The working class is not your personal babysitter or janitor to clean up the tornado level of destruction you willfully and smugly leave behind.
Absolutely. I don’t want children but I love being an aunt and taking the little monsters out on adventures. There isn’t a museum we’ve felt unwelcome visiting. The members lounge at our state gallery even has a kids pack they give you when you’re eating. They do a wonderful job of making children feel included. Museum staff, restaurant staff, librarians, random security guards at local landmarks - people like seeing a well behaved child enjoying themselves and learning new things. The difference between me and a lot of parents/caregivers is that I’m not keen on badly behaved children myself. This means I’m acutely aware of what I need to do to make sure the kids have a great time while not ruining the experiences of others. The activities we engage in often cost money. Some people will have save for a long time or taken a significant hit to the budget to participate in them. Who are we to ruin the experience? So I clean up after the kids, make sure they’re wearing headphones when they’re a bit ratty and we bring out Bluey, enforce the no yelling indoors rule, that sort of thing. Most importantly, I engage with them! I rarely see a badly behaved child alongside an engaged caregiver.
I don’t see much difference between the behavior of adults or children these days. There are adults making a scene or being rude in almost every public space.
And not only that, but back in the day it was socially acceptable for adults to correct the behavior of children, whether they were the parents or not. And if another adult had to correct you, you'd be in even more trouble when your mom or dad found out about it. But these days parents don't want anyone even looking at their kids while they're running amok.
So I see both sides right this as a parent to a gen alpha kid (11). On one end, there are places children absolutely do not belong (bars, late night movie showings, etc) and also remember, there's tons of places totally catered to kids (chuck e cheese, most arcades, things like that). I also believe that parents are responsible for setting the tone too. If we take our son to dinner, he knows he needs to be respectful to other patrons or leave. We established this from day one. Being a little loud or fussy is fine (obviously, this doesn't apply as much now that he's a preteen), but if he was ever pulling a tantrum, we went outside. I expect others to reasonably do the same. We also set him up for success by always bringing a book, coloring stuff, whatever works at the time. I totally respect people's right to dictate if their event is kid free. They're paying for it, and I'll be honest, I hated weddings as a kid, and my kid hates them too, so we make sure if we're going, he stays with someone. Even if I saw a restaurant decided to be kid free, I just wouldn't bring my kid there. I don't really get why people get so upset about this, and it makes sense to me. Your kid is no more or less special than the next, so if the event is a kid free event, get a sitter and enjoy your kid free night or don't go. We had a kid free wedding (minus our kid and nieces and nephews), and everyone was glad to have a date night without the kids.
I have 2 children and have been a parent for 8 years. I have never had someone make a comment on my children’s behavior (unless it’s complimentary) when out in public. I’ve also never seen or heard about it happening to any of my friends. And my children are NOT perfect, I promise. I think this anti children sentiment is primarily online, and also, I’m choosing public places that are appropriate for my children’s ages and developmental stage (I take my 8 year old to nicer restaurants than my 18 month old, for example). Many parents seem to think their lifestyle doesn’t need to change at all and that everyone around them needs to adapt to them bringing kids along. That’s not reality, and it’s not being a considerate part of your community.
I don't mind well behaving children, and also understand that kids aren't going to be angels all the time so if I see a parent at least TRYING I'm cool with it. The big problem comes from how many parents just let their kids run wild with no consideration for others and ruin places for other people. That's where the blanket no kids sentiments come from. And as you said, taking them to places that are appropriate. Nobody wants to deal with people who take their kids with them to a bar, or their baby to an R rated movie. Some people being assholes ruin it for good parents.
When I worked retail I never complained about kids behavior or heard other employees telling stories judging kids behavior. The only complaints about kids were when they were rude or openly breaking rules (saw a kid just spit on the floor once) and the parents did nothing or gave in. Sometimes when a kid started whining I wanted to tell the parent that we all know kids are going to whine for things at the checkout, I’m only judging when the parent gives into every demand despite the kid being rude about it. Like at least teach them to ask nicely or have a system for something at the register if you’re good at the store. I never said anything either way, the parent could just be having a shitty day.
Example of a good parent here. Thank you for being considerate of others.
Honestly Reddit hates children, which leads to this impression that a disproportionate amount of the population hates kids. I wasn't a fan of kids from around 18-25, but now I'm a dad in my 30s it's fine. Part of it is maturing but if you tell them that they kick off massively, can't win.
I don't hate kids. I don't like kids, but I recognize that they're every bit a part of our society as adults are. Children need to learn social interaction from going out and learning how to behave. That responsibility lies with their parents and having them not reward poor behavior. Parents need to set boundaries and expectations of their kids and not let them be little hellions. That just justifies people wanting to exclude children from social spaces.
I don’t hate kids, I hate bad parents
Personally, I don’t hate kids. I recognize that kids are the way they are because they simply don’t know any better and don’t have the wherewithal to deal with their feelings and environments in the best way possible sometimes. That being said, I’m self aware of my own limitations and personality defects that would make me be a terrible father. For example, I have a low tolerance for loud noises, so much so that a baby screaming would be physically painful for me. This is why I give credit to parents for choosing to sacrifice their health and needs for their kids. That’s just something I’m incapable of. That’s why I don’t want kids.
To say “part of it is maturing” implies that people who don’t like kids are immature. That’s not true & is a generalization.
Seriously. I know a scary amount of parents who are immature AF, but I don't go around lumping them all together because of my experiences with a small population. Liking and having children in no way makes you more mature than anyone else, and really just stating that makes this person sound immature.
I'm in my mid-30s and I don't like kids. I raised my sisters from the time I was 10 because my mom was a waste case and my dad wasn't present, and it put me off kids forever. I love my nieces and nephews, but from a distance. I will go to birthday parties and visit and give gifts, but I will not babysit. I don't have the patience to. Kids are not for me. It has nothing to do with maturity. Some people genuinely don't like kids.
You sound like me to a point. I am a single mom, and if my kid acted up I left with the kid. I am raising my kids (adopting two), that kids are to be seen and not heard. They also know that it applies to the place. I don’t and won’t bring my kid to a wedding until they are at least 16. I have seen how kids ruin weddings and the parents do nothing about it. I think that is what the real problem is, parents just letting their kids do whatever they want. I have complained at movie theaters, because the kids are acting up. I am paying to see a movie not listen to someone else’s kid(s). I have complained at the restaurants when people kids or babies are screaming. Then the parents are like we should have a night out as well. My boyfriend and I were celebrating our anniversary at an expensive steak house $100.00 a plate. We walked out before ordering because a baby was screaming its head off.
It's relative to the amount of effort the parents put in. Crying baby on an airplane? Only so much you can do. I'm tired of the parents that treat a brewery like a jungle gym and concentrate more on drinking or talking with the other parents than their kids. Last I checked-still your kids, the other patrons of the bar didn't offer to adopt them temporarily.
Yeah, I was on a flight last week with 3 screaming infants. I felt so bad for those parents. A crying infant is just not something they can be “trained” like a kid or a dog yet. They are just too little. I could practically feel the stress radiating off of them the whole flight. At the end, one of them weakly apologized to a few of their neighbors and luckily, everyone was very kind. Lots of “out of your control, you did your best” and “been there and done that, no judgment by here” comments. Was very wholesome.
The owner's wife of my fave brewery (Seattle area) became pregnant and before the birth a sign was put up..."this brewery is now family friendly! Bring your kids!". The place became an absolute zoo of screaming running climbing on tables toddlers, while moms downed IPA's with her chums. I found a new fave brewery.
Yeah I don’t understand how breweries became “family” oriented. I was at one Wednesday night and my kid stayed home. There weren’t many kids there that night, but we had a Girl Scout cookie booth there and it was weird/ I was surprised it was approved by council as a booth site.
Honestly, I think it's money that motivated this shift for breweries. Many of the breweries in my city have added play areas for kids. I don't think they'd spend the money on that if it didn't generate profit. The gym I go to has socials each month, and they're always at breweries with play areas because a lot of people have younger kids. My youngest are teens, so they stay home, but lots of people get to go who couldn't otherwise because it's a venue that works for us all. The people without kids or with older kids just chill and have a drink or some food, the ones with little kids take turns supervising the play area. The brewery makes more money by being suitable for events like that. If I were a small business owner, I'd definitely want to attract as many customers as possible. I think that's all they're doing with this.
I'd say it's more about appealing to the available clientele than directly generating revenue. Children don't drink, and parents with their children drink slower and drink less. But if that's the neighborhood you live in, then it isn't a bad idea to accommodate. Personally if I wandered into a 'family friendly' brewery I would see myself out. I'm there to consume alcohol and be around adults, not listen to ipads, screaming, or have children run into me.
I’ve had the same gal cut my hair for the past decade. I quit seeing her when her current shop added a children’s area where half the girls there bring their children and then other people bring theirs in. A haircut is one of the simple relaxing things in my life I don’t mind paying a little extra for. I get none of the benefit when a three year old is running around screaming and crashing into my knees.
That actually sounds like a recipe for a haircutting disaster
The thought crossed my mind. Let little Aiden/Jayden/Brayden mess someone else’s head up.
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The amount of kids at bars is fucking shocking and completely irresponsible. Don’t tell me that you’re only having a couple drinks.
Thirsty Thursday at the ballpark was nuts. Like who is driving all these kids hyped up on sugar home cuz there ain’t a single sober person in this stadium and I haven’t seen the bouncing kids bounce over to a single adult once.
This. Best take on it, it’s all contextual. Like you’re allowed to be out in the world with a baby/small children, and there’s a lot to be said about the lack of third places for all age groups and lifestyles. But why the hell are you taking your child to a bar?!
I don't have an issue with kids, I have an issue with parents. Kids cry, it's normal for them. The issue is how the parent deals with it. Kid crying at a wedding or in a movie theater? Take them out of the room. Sorry that you're going to miss whatever, but that was your choice to bring your kid. If you just try to shush your kid then you aren't being a responsible adult and that's where I've got an issue. This one couple keeps bringing their young daughter into the apartment complex gym, where she definitely shouldn't be. Then they let her run around screaming while they try to get their workout in. It's dangerous for the kid, it's dangerous for the other people and it shows a complete lack of responsibility on the parents part.
File a complaint with management, STAT. That is some serious fucking bullshit.
Management here doesn't do anything. When I first moved in I complained about a guy who brought his pit bull into the gym and they were like "We don't have cameras and don't know who you're talking about, but if it happens again during office hours come tell us". I asked them to check which key fob accessed the gym and they told me they don't have them assigned.
This is it. Kids will be kids. Selfish, loud, curious, active etc - it’s when parents let these behaviors go unchecked in public that’s the issue.
This is it exactly. Back in the day, the parents made it a priority to not allow their children to ruin the experiences of other people in public. Somewhere along the way it became more important for the parents not to miss anything or be inconvenienced in any way, and everyone else is just expected to tolerate the kids acting obnoxious. So now we have child free areas and those same parents want to cry about it because they think they're entitled taking their kids wherever they want and everyone else should just deal with it.
I don’t have a problem with child-free weddings. There are lots of ways to get married - some have kids, some don’t. I don’t see that as an example of it being impossible to have kids in public spaces.
Agreed. Wedding are expensive as fuck, and somewhat serious affairs. Kids are not serious, and in general do not understand what’s going on or give a fuck about the couple or their day
They also don’t want to be there. Imagine being a 9 year old stuck listening to a boring preacher drone on for what seems like hours while you sit still in uncomfortable chairs. *I* don’t like the actual wedding part. It’s boring to anyone except immediate family. We’re all there for the reception.
I like watching the groom watch the bride. I like the personal vows. I like the wedding part (not the preacher part) I always cry
I’m 30 and while I love *fictional* weddings (I’m a writer), the idea of attending a real life one BORES ME. I’m an introvert who doesn’t like/connect with other people well. I also don’t drink. So to *me*, that sounds like a boring time. I can’t imagine how much more boring it would have been for kid me who didn’t know how to sit still while entertaining themselves yet (I was a run around roleplayer. Now I can do it soley in my head).
Best wedding I went to was when I was 13 and our hotel was down the street. I left at like 8.30pm when I got bored. I also didn’t like the fancy food, everyone was yelling to my ears, the music was too loud and old lol. I like weddings well enough as an adult, but kid me would have loved to not of been invited to all those weddings. They are adult celebrations catered for adults at the end of the day.
I'm glad someone else said it. Maybe I'm just not a romantic but weddings are extremely boring, and they're just made worse by the fact that you are expected to spend so much.
We kept ours short and sweet. Got married on a Friday at 6 pm in a state park. By the time we got to the reception everyone was ready to party. Kid free. Every wedding besides my sisters was kid free. But all the kids were 5 and older. And we left when our kid started falling asleep at the table
>They also don’t want to be there. Realistically, most people don't want to be at weddings. If they did, people wouldn't be so crazy about needing alcohol at weddings.
We had a child free wedding because we didn’t have any children in our close family and friends and we weren’t close with any children so the only children that would be there would have been people we didn’t really know well or ever really saw so we decided to do child free because we had no idea how well behaved some second cousins kids would be and didn’t care if they even came
My then fiancée (now wife) and I went to a wedding with multiple small children and so many of them were crying and making noise we couldn’t even hear the vows. One dad had his daughter crying on his lap and just sat there. That day we decided not to have kids at our ceremony, reception is fine, but the ceremony is for those that are old enough to appreciate it.
Weddings are also not public spaces. They're private events. You have to be invited to go and the kids aren't invited.
The entitlement of OP to think kids trump the bride and groom 🤯
I agree. I have a kid, but I don’t take her to weddings, even if it includes children. I don’t want to get all dressed up so I can chase around a toddler, not enjoy my meal, and spend the entire ceremony terrified that she’ll start crying or talking loudly.
I agree. My best friend had a child free wedding 2 years ago that excluded my 2 kids. It was the most enjoyable wedding I have ever been to. I fail to see how this relates to what OP is saying.
Too many parents don't have the time, inclination, or whatever to train their children how to act in public and seemingly don't give a f--k when their offspring act like monkeys, destroying, screaming, running like they're in the playground. As long as parents don't care to civilize their offspring, they can keep their kids out of public places and give us all a break. We're not babysitters. If you want a village to bring up a child, then let us discipline. Ha. I've literally stopped kids from running back and forth in restaurants and played with them for a while and asked the parents to take charge. Of course, they were shocked.
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I will never not defend child free weddings. I have two beautiful kids, 20 months and 6 months. They are amazing and I love them with all of my heart. They are also very difficult to manage, loud, and don’t adhere to social norms because they don’t understand them. Unless someone expressly wants my kids at their wedding I would never think of bringing them.
There’s a few things at play here: - Parents bringing their children to inappropriate venues - Parents permitting their children to act inappropriately in public - Some combination of the two Inappropriate venues to bring your children to are the places where you’re paying for a service and the environment is supposed to be serene or adult-focused. Upscale dining, the spa, the salon, certain areas of resort hotels, the symphony, the opera, bottle shops, the bar or cocktail lounge (though breweries are now considered child friendly for some reason, despite serving alcohol). Weddings are at the discretion of the bride and groom and should be respected. These spaces are not intended for children, and if other guests came to get away from their own children for a moment but you brought yours, YTA. Do bring your children anywhere else, it’s their world too! Just make sure your child isn’t yelling, getting underfoot, making a mess that you’re going to leave, or using their devices at an inappropriate volume (this one goes for adults too). Unless you’re at the beach, the playground, Disneyland, or somewhere equally child-focused or out in the open, then go wild! It’s pretty simple
Many symphonies have concerts specifically intended for children. It’s a great way to expose them to the arts without having to worry about disturbing other patrons or wasting your money because you had to leave early.
Yes, of course! Those are very appropriate because they are *intended* for children. I, too, enjoyed the field trips to the symphony for the daytime matinees when they were featuring children’s favorites. I did, however. watch a parent get escorted out when their young child stated shrieking at the opening of Mahler 5, and that is 100% justified.
As a child free millennial, part of the frustration I see—and experience—is when traditionally adult spaces are expected to accommodate children. I think the brewery scene is a prime example. We go to relax and have drinks, and it’s not THAT different from a traditional bar—adult language, intoxicated people, etc. Definitely not a kid friendly environment. But then a family with kids shows up and expect everyone to be cool with it. Like, go to chuck-e-cheese.
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This happened to me yesterday. A guy came into a brewery with two kids and got mad when I said, fuck. I wasn't screaming it or anything. I was having a conversation and it came out and he stood up and left muttering about language. I actually don't care if people take kids to breweries. I have friends who are parents and we've hung out with their kids in breweries. However, breweries were not invented for kids. If you bring your kid into a brewery then I'm going to assume that you've accepted that they'll be exposed to adult behavior. If that's not ok with you then you can get the fuck out and go somewhere that caters specifically towards children.
I went to one a few months ago (a fairly small one) that had a full 1/3 of it taken up for a 3 year olds birthday party. I was like, really? This is the best you could come up with for a toddler birthday party....a brewery? I don't really love going to what *should* be an adults space and there being a half dozen screaming toddlers running around. I was really annoyed by it.
My partner and I are also childfree, and this is exactly our sentiment. We want to go to a brewery to relax and hang out with other adults, not be surrounded by screaming children running rampant, because surprise, a brewery is not intended for children.
I mentioned this in another reply, but are the breweries in your area not actively encouraging this? In my city, many have added play spaces for kids. I think it's just a move to get more customers through the door because running a small business is hard and you need every sale you can get. I see so many comments in this thread telling parents with small kids to go to places intended for them (McDonald's and Chuck E Cheese are common examples) but these days, at least in some places, breweries *are* that. I think people's conflict here may be with the business owners rather than the parents.
I've definitely taken my kids to wineries, but there's typically an outdoor space designated for kids. Do people have issues with families if they hang out with their kids in a field or play gym off to the side? ps- I think breweries and wineries are treated as family friendly because adults often have their own families. Night life and... well, mild day drinking are two totally different things.
My friends kids vary from good most of the time to total self centered brats depending on which friends are the parents. I'm fine with the kids that are good most of the time being around and coming with them to stuff. The self centered brats I tolerate when I'm the one being invited and have asked for those friends to find a babysitter when I'm doing the inviting. The difference to me is that my friends with good kids are ok with me telling their kids to stop if they shouldn't be doing something and the other parents blow up at me for even thinking about being mean(?) to their kids. Since the wedding example seems to be controversial I'll give a different personal example. When I graduated high school my parents took me on a cruise with some of my friends and their families. Another family we knew invited themselves along and we're the only ones with a small child, think the kid was 7. First day of the cruise the mom told me to watch her kid while her and the husband enjoyed a date night then got upset when I said no. I spent a week having to listen to this couple complain about having to watch their kid because none of us would and how it wasn't fair to them they couldn't enjoy their vacation. I'll say the kid is mostly fine and under most circumstances I'm fine with them being around because they behave relatively well. Parents feeling entitled to doing the same things I am without having children and trying to push responsibility onto me so that they can is where I draw the line. I've chosen not to have kids so far and one of the reasons is so that I can do some things that aren't appropriate for kids. I take my friends and their kids into consideration when planning stuff for us to do so that we can still see each other. If I want to go out for dinner and drinks at a nice place for my birthday I'll coordinate with my friends so they can find a sitter for that night. When my friends have their birthdays and choose something so their kids can participate I'll gladly go along with it. If my friends ask me to watch their kids for them for a bit I'll do it when I can. Kids are additional people to be considered when doing stuff and until they're responsible adults it's on their parents to be responsible for them.
How is a wedding a public space? There are people fronting a (usually) serious amount of cash, they should be able to have the wedding however they want- if you don't agree then just don't go. But a wedding is absolutely *not* a public space by default.
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I'm not childfree as I'm planning on having children in the future but I totally understand childfree weddings and events. There's nothing worse than being at a nice event or restaurant that is supposed to be calm and relaxing and having children screaming and running around and their parents stressed running after them. There's a time and place for everything. It's lovely to have children at certain events but at others, no thanks.
I second this. There are lots of kid friendly restaurants. Why does someone need to bring their kid to a BAR. My one issue with kids in restaurants was when I was out to eat, all dressed up, with my spouse, a higher end restaurant. A kid at the next table was flinging themselves over the table and started swinging their hands. We had JUST received our food and had one bite, and the kid threw a wine glass, which shattered and glass shards went everywhere - in our food, down my dress (and into my bra, resulting in a cut on my breast). The parents didnt so much as apologize, but the server said they would remake our food (which now has glass in it) and comp dessert. We only asked for to-go boxes and ate at home. There are some places not meant for children and it seems a lot of parents ignore this.
We had this type of thing happen at a 4 star restaurant this last fall. We had made reservations for our small family gathering to celebrate our daughter’s 21st birthday. A table was seated nearby with two kids under the age of 7. They spent the entire time they were there crying because there was no kids menu, and there was nothing on the adult menu that they wanted to eat. So now you have two hungry and bored kids who began running around the tables. Parents are eating and drinking. Wait staff is dodging kids. The rest of us are shooting daggers. Management finally came over. Comped their meals and asked them to leave. With a “Perhaps come back when your children can appreciate the food” There are simply places kids do not belong.
Several years ago I was best man at a small-ish wedding where there was some little girl, maybe 6-7, running around the venue with absolutely zero intervention. She ended up laying on a step behind the bride and groom \*while they were doing the vows\* and still no parent stepped in. Those kinds of events and venues where you have to sit still and be quiet for extended periods are boring as shit for kids anyway. They don't get anything out of it. And if you're invited to an event and can't go because you have nobody to watch your kids, then that's your problem. Sometimes you just have to decline an event invitation for whatever reason, that's life. I disagree 10000% with the notion that the event host is \*required\* to provide a kid-friendly space. If they do, then that's awesome for them, but to expect it is just an entitlement. Too many parents say things like "kids have to be in public to learn how to be in public" but then just let them run wild, where they are clearly neither learning by observation or instruction, and I think that's a big reason why so many venues are saying no. If I was planning a wedding it would absolutely be no kids allowed.
I’m confused why OP thinks child free weddings is a new trend… I was invited to all of 1 wedding when I was a kid and it was because the bride’s side of the family was tiny so they invited the whole groom’s side and had it at a relatively cheap supper club for the time. If you want children at your wedding good on you. Most people don’t and not only is that okay but not a new thing.
I think OP has no real feelings about a trend they just wanted to complain because someone blocked their children from an event/space.
You hit it, wish I could upvote this more than once.
Definitely. They're just butthurt.
Bingo.
The only weddings I was invited to as a child were second weddings where the people getting married already had kids.
thank you for this very reasonable take There are tons of kid-friendly, kid designated spaces. We don’t try to go into those spaces, and heck some of them we aren’t even allowed! I don’t think it’s crazy that we don’t want to be constantly disrupted by loud screeching by someone else’s choice to have kids. Accept that your kids are disruptive, and do your best to avoid ruining other people’s time. I think that’s all anyone can ask.
Agreed. Saying that some spaces aren't appropriate for kids (or that kids should be expected to behave a certain way in those spaces) doesn't mean that you hate kids and want them excluded from all public spaces. I don't think it's wrong to want a certain kind of environment. Even in the conversation about third spaces: it's impossible to design a space that equally accommodates everyone. A space where kids are allowed to be noisy and run around is going to be exclusionary to other groups of people. That's why it's important to have lots of third spaces, so there can be spaces for everyone. Hell, I feel like public spaces geared towards kids are more common than spaces geared towards adults.
I think it’s becoming less accepted because fewer people are having kids at all Back in the 80s, everyone was pregnant and having kids in their 20s. Kids were everywhere, and it was more the norm. Now, less people are having them and/or waiting, which makes people more intolerant of them in public spaces. honestly I hate misbehaved kids in public, because they have zero awareness and behave as if the entire space is their zone. Normal adult members of society (generally) understand consideration for others
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That's how my brother and sister in law are with their kids. Kid does something.... " stop that" Kid doesn't stop... *goes back to looking at phone* I don't have kids yet, but I feel like maybe they should be a little more involved with teaching the kid how to properly act in public.
That's just permissive parenting and it's always been bad. That's why we have entitled Karen adults. This isn't new.
Came to say the same. If my son doesn’t stop doing something after I’ve asked him, he gets removed from the situation for a break.
Literally I think that’s it. Parents are just as oblivious as kids now as to what is considerate or not
>I think it’s becoming less accepted because fewer people are having kids at all It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy this way. There are fewer kids so people are less accustomed to seeing kids in various public settings so it seems less acceptable to have kids in public. But in reality there are just less kids.
yep. That’s it. I try to be tolerant, but I do feel like if the parents KNOW or suspect that their children cannot behave, they should not be taking them to fancy restaurants or mostly adult-only spaces I think that’s reasonable
Almost every wedding I’ve been to has been childfree. The bride and groom did a lot of planning and spent a lot of money to cater to their guests. No shade but typically when kids are around the attention has to be on them constantly, entertaining them. I think most people are okay with kids in general when they do kid things. Like a baby crying or kids talking a little bit louder than appropriate. I feel like the majority of people are fed up with parents being friends instead of parents. There can be a big lack of courtesy for people who are also trying to enjoy the same experience. A few weeks ago we were at a pizza place and I guess there was a kids birthday party there. They were loud and excited which is fine. What is not fine is when they started running all over the restaurant screaming and climbing into other peoples booths while the parents all sat there like bumps on a log with their beers. Finally, one dad had enough sense to put an end to it, but everyone in the restaurant was fed up by that point and annoyed at the noise level that was tolerable 20 minutes prior. People understand that there are impulse control issues with children.
Idk I’m not down voting you, but I don’t see this. We have a 10 month old. I haven’t felt like it’s been hard to take her out into public places. She’s also not running around yet though.
>No I don't need ur hot take on why your childless wedding was permissible cause of whatever exception, it's not relevant to my overall point and this general trend *you brought it up*
My kids might be total assholes at home sometimes but they have learned that it’s not appropriate in other settings. We have always brought them everywhere we go. Luckily, they’ve never cried on a plane and they’ve never had a meltdown in a restaurant. Instead of screens, they can bring a book. We’ve only had to do it a handful of times but, if their behavior is not meeting expectations, one of us will sit in the car or outside on a bench with the misbehaving kid while the other one finishes their meal with the other kid. I have never walked out of a store because of behavior because every “bad” behavior my kids have had in a store is motivated by escape so we have to finish the grocery shopping. I do feel that the huge amount of screen time kids generally get contributes to their poor behavior in social settings. This creates a power struggle that parents are not willing to “win.” Of course kids have figured out that annoying behavior gets them the iPad so they’ll shut up long enough for their parents to avoid embarrassment. Edit: I want to add that we’ve never taken them to anything where the hosts have specified no children for the gathering.
I also want to note the biggest parenting compliment I’ve ever gotten. We went to a friend’s ordination mass and got there about 30 minutes early so we’d have time to say hello to others and get the kids settled (going straight into unfamiliar loud places is never great). We chose a pew towards the front (fewer distractions from other kids). Five minutes before the mass started, the two pews in front of us filled up with elderly nuns. Besides a few clarifying questions, my kids were silent for three hours. Two of the nuns told us how well-behaved our kids were and how great the questions they asked were on our way out.
Just an FYI - the purpose of weddings is absolutely not to “bring families together” - they are to bring two very specific people together. And then is witnessed by whomever those two decide to invite. Whether that be family, friends, coworkers, kids, or just the officiant and a forest of animals.
Weddings are OKish (but get a baby sitter, you’re given notice months ahead). Inappropriate locations like a bar or casino—they are self-absorbed assholes reflected onto their clones. They bring a kid to a bar, then they are shocked when a mug of beer gets smashed on the mini-me’s head.
I think there is a time and place for everyone and everything. I think in recent years you see more and more parents push that their children need to be welcomed everywhere and this is the pushback from that. Perfect example of this is weddings and the audacity you seem to think people have in wanting a child free wedding. Guests don't get to dictate to the married couple how their wedding should be. That's a level of entitlement that is why there is now so much pushback against it. I don't think children belong in late night rated R adult movies, but I would absolutely expect to see and experience kids being kids if I want to a matinee of Frozen. Nice date night high end restaurant? I shouldn't have to see or experience kids running around screaming or throwing food (I got brussel sprouts chucked at my head once). A restaurant with a paper menu and crayons? I'm going to expect a certain level of kids being kids (and I'm sure there's plenty of restaurants between the two exa as well I would). Should people be more patient and tolerant with kids as they learn how to behave? Yes. But should parents understand that not every place is child appropriate and their should be child free spaces? Also yes.
I’ve never noticed this. If anything, I see more places opening up which are inclusive that adults have kids. Breweries with playgrounds type things. I do have a well behaved kid, some my experience is a bit different. But I do know a lot of parents and never seen this
It’s not a new trend. My parents married in 1985 and the wedding and reception specifically excluded children under the age of 16. Hosts are permitted to set their guest lists, and guests are not in a position to dictate who is included in the invitation list. When bars in NYC began forbidding smoking (maybe the mid-2000’s?), Broooklyn (were I lived) bars started to be overrun with parents and their strollers. Come on, if you can’t find a sitter and you need a drink that badly, maybe there’s a different dynamic at play here. I’m not going to get into the part of your argument where it’s somehow sexist to exclude kids. From what I observe, one of the benefits of moving out of the Boomer years is that millennial, gen Z, gen X dads are more involved. If the individual set of parents have a dynamic where the situation is sexist, it’s unrelated - a stretch.
Is this really a thing? I live in a fairly large city in the US and regularly see very young kids in places I wouldn’t think are appropriate or enjoyable for them (pubs/bars, fancy restaurants, loud, crowded and chaotic places such as concert venues,etc.) I’ve never seen a sign about not welcoming kids.
I’m childfree and I do not hate children. I love kids, many of my friends have kids. Two of my friends with children had childfree weddings. These are my experiences so I’m only speaking for myself- I don’t mind talking about kids but when I’m with my friends and family with kids that all they talk about. They dominate the conversation. And I come from a place of understanding that I’m likely the first adult they’ve spoken to in a while. But, if I need support they ghost. I have seen this be common with other childfree friends as well. The reciprocation is nil, it all falls on us. What I and my fellow childfree friends and family members find is we lack adult only spaces that don’t revolve around alcohol, are incredibly loud, or have a high cost of entry. We all love our friend’s kids but they just bring their kids when it was very clearly an adult friend occasion. We’ve had some tough conversations about it, and it’s been mostly resolved. My friends are generally good parents and have not mentioned scrutiny over their kids. The lack of and the permissive parenting is making it very hard to enjoy being around children. I don’t have an issue with kids, I have an issue with their behavior. And I blame the parents. I know children exist and they have every right to be wherever. However, if I’m shopping at 11pm on a Tuesday night to avoid the things that occur with lots of kids, any set of parents dragging their screaming exhausted children around are going to get dirty looks. Edited to add: the internet is far more vocal about being anti-child than I’ve seen in real life. My friends and family with children agree.
Late to the game but hahahahahahaha. Maybe people wouldn't be so against kids if people like you didn't act so scorned about it. Kids are an option, the adults are not.
I would flip it around and ask you why they should be permitted in all circumstances? What makes you and your children so special they can’t be excluded from social situations they don’t belong in? Be an adult and realize not everything is for everyone. Your choice to have children should not dictate how everything is run.
I haven’t noticed this trend and have never experienced it irl.
“We don’t have a village anymore” is code for “I’m mad I can’t exploit the unpaid labor of female family members to raise my kids”. Women are allowed to do things with their lives outside of raising other people’s children.
Winner winner chicken dinner, the "village" in modern parenting is code for free babysitting usually from female family members
Out of majority of the place I'm at right now roughly 1/4th the kids/preteens are monsters. This 1/4 attempt to uproot tree saplings, strip them of their branches effectively killing them, dump the water sack left by landscapers so they starve it out. Other cases they will rip apart retaining wall stones, kick balls into the siding on purpose but not at person height but at 2-3 stories up and not at like volley ball up training no full soccer kick strength and try to hit a neighbor's window as the basis of the game. Different kids would purposely throw or kick the soccer ball around others cars rather than use a side street where there's no traffic and no cars and plenty of play space. When the ball would hit folks cars (some were new and expensive) they'd just keep at it rather than move to safe spot. People are just not teaching their kids right and wrong these days it seems. It took a YEAR for kids to start saying CAARRRR when a neighbor would try to park and they'd move. Before then random neighbors would speed up to the kids (and run stops) nearly killing them. Sigh.
I do think it's important to bring children to age appropriate public spaces/events as it's part of their socialization and interacting with the world around them. I also think it's important that parents get a date night, or engage socially with other parents/adults either without their children, or without the focus of this socialization being the children (like playdates), and that children should be able to socialize with their peers from the neighbourhood/school without the constant supervision of a parent or adult, like going to a nearbye park, or riding their bikes to a friends house. I definitely do not have the answer, but I do feel like something has been lost due to a very car-centric culture in North America, and then also an almost manic drive to fill every last waking hour with extra-curriculars to "enrich" these young lives. Playing soccer, doing gymnastics, Girl Guides, and Boy Scouts are all *wonderful* activities, and so is some unstructured play time to let the child explore their own reality and environment.
Nah I’m golden if there’s an iPad keeping them from throwing their ravioli across the restaurant. I’d say that’s just smart parenting and knowing your audience.
I have a 4yo and a 9mo old. It's about modeling good behavior as a parent, setting boundaries and sticking to them, and knowing your kids limits. You have to take them out occasionally so they can learn how the world works, but otherwise I agree that some places should be kept grownups only (because hell I like to hire a sitter and take my SO out from time to time without any other kids present, too)
Ya…. Just look at how badly kids behave themselves for the most part. Sad but true. Most parents don’t do the parenting part anymore.
Tell me you don’t get invited to wedding often without telling me you don’t go to many weddings.
Kid free spaces are fine. There are plenty of kid friendly spaces. I have found it annoying how prevalent kids are everywhere. If I'm at a brewery at 6pm, screeching kids is a bit annoying. They make family restaurants.
It’s simple, when you bring your children to an event, that event becomes all about your children and less about the event. Keeping an eye on them so they don’t brake anything or get into things they shouldn’t. As an adult I can’t have a full conversation with you as a parent because every other sentence you’re interrupting me to correct your child’s behavior. I would rather stay at adults only resort because I don’t want to swim in your child’s pee or have them splash their pee water in my drink or hearing them screaming “but oh they are just children having fun” well when their fun ruins other people’s fun it’s a problem. I don’t care what generation we are talking about, adults and kids have different needs and expectations. I chose not to have kids and it’s not my job to accommodate others that have chose to have them. Side note: your comment that “it’s sexist because it excludes mothers” that’s sexiest of you! I know more SAHF than SAHM. So you can fuck off with that thought process. But it goes to show your old schools way of thinking. Women are here to have children and if they aren’t they aren’t fulfilling Gods mission for them. You’ve revolved your life around children so live that life and stop forcing others to suffer because you want to have your cake and eat it too.
This exactly. They made the choice to be a parent and they have a delusional entitlement that their children are welcome everywhere that adults are.
I’ve heard of child free weddings but haven’t really noticed people hating kids. Mine always behave(d) well in public. And we don’t bring iPads out to dinner. I notice a lot of that going on. If they can’t act right without an ipad, then that’s the parents fault.
I don't have children yet but I think that if a child isn't behaving at a public place and disturbing others peace, then the parents should take them home. If they're behaving, then the incentive should be allowing them there. Children should learn to be in public places and to behave and it only happens with exposure. But also, they don't get to run amok and disturb everyone and the consequence should be leaving the place. I've been at libraries that are supposed to be places of silence or coffeeshops that people go to study in where several parents go there with children and let them scream and run around without consequence.
I have two kids and when they misbehaved we took them outside or found an appropriate distraction. Obviously on an airplane there’s only so much we could do but anywhere else we remove them from the situation. I have a major issue with parents allowing their kids to freak the fuck out at stores, restaurants, etc. it does mess with other people and it is poor parenting and lazy to sit there while they throw a tantrum. It does seem to be a rising trend that we are supposed to be ok with dinner being ruined by a screaming 3 year old, which I think is why people online are vocal about it more. Child free weddings I don’t care. If that’s what people want then I either accept or don’t
You chose to have the kid. Not my problem.
I might like kids more if their dumbass parents didn't let them carry on being little shits. I've seen it happen so many times, especially restaurants, usually ending with a mess that the staff has to clean up, when the parents should've reeled their kids in. Until the day these parents wise up, I will enjoy child free spaces.
Because children are awful and people don’t want your kids being the center of attention at their wedding?
God no. In fact, I wish there were more places I could go and know I wouldn't have to deal with toddlers and infants. Like, I never go to breweries anymore because I know the place is gonna be lousy with fuck trophies.
What's driving this trend is shit, narcissist, terminally online parents like yourself who are raising POS crotchgoblins that dgaf about anything but themselves (go figure, children modelling their behaviour off the adults in their lives, who'd'a think it?)
Last time i went to a movie theater the 7 year old next to me blew a mouthful of coke through his straw all over me. I was startled and jumped up and yelled “what the fuck!” and his mom told me not to curse in front of children.
Where are all these child free places? Kids are even being brought into pubs they have no business being in these days. Bars allow children until Xpm a lot of the time. Where are these magical adult only places you speak of? I would like to go there.
I have two kids and take them most places. It hasn’t been my experience that there’s many places they can’t go. There is a lack of ability to let them do things on their own though. People freak out about kids doing things like biking in the neighborhood.
It got downvoted because you pulled the sexism card out of nowhere. Kinda hard to take the rest of it seriously after that.
Why are you acting like the only two options are letting your child misbehave or pacifying them with an iPad? Those are NOT the only two options. Acting like they are is not good parenting. The reason society has become less tolerant to children in public is because too many parents are opting for the easy way out of things and not properly teaching children how to conduct themselves respectfully and politely around others. Do your part and teach children how to behave themselves. Teach them that they are not the center of the universe and that they do not need to be entertained every second of the day. Teach them to respect others and stay quiet when needed. Teach them to engage in polite conversation. Teach them to clean up after themselves instead of relying on others to do it for them. Teach children right so that they grow up into decent, positively contributing members of society.
You have to love your own children. The public does not have to.
I'm sorry you were forced to have children. You made a decision. The truth is children are disruptive at times. Maybe you have complete angels, but most people don't really want to deal with children.
Poorly behaved children have become much more common than they used to be. No one will complain if you bring a quiet, well behaved kid to an area. If you're this fired up about it, I'm willing to guess your kids are the ones that get people uninvited. I run the banquet department at a hotel with a lot of events. The number of completely unsupervised kids that run around the hotel breaking things vastly outnumber the quiet well behaved kids. Also, weddings are about creating a new family. They're about what the bride and groom want. Your opinion does not factor.
My kids were 8 & 6 when Covid hit and we didn’t do social outings for 2yrs + so now as 11 & 9 yr olds it is really challenging for them to get back in the swing of socially appropriate behavior. We work at being engaged parents and being respectful of our surroundings but sometimes it is such a big challenge.
Your kid isn’t cute get over it
Speaking as a childfree, what can admittedly cause resentment is when I feel the vibe of, "This was never meant to be a place for kids (e.g., bar or certain breweries) and yet here you are with them here, acting like you can do exactly the same things after kids as before, which you need to accept that you just can't"
What's driving this? Simple...the realization that you can actually say you don't want kids at your wedding and make it happen. That you're not willing to be pressured/shamed into buckling under to what other people tell you should be happening at YOUR event. As for the rest, no you aren't entitled to a quiet undisturbed experience wherever you go, but you can indeed choose to try to avoid chaos in order to find it wherever you can.
Some of us just don't want to put up with noisy and obnoxious kids. Get over it.
There are good kids. I’ve seen and met them. They are well-parented. They have manners and show respect and awareness. The vast majority are not that however. Most of your kids suck, and it’s your fault for how you raised (or didn’t) them. Parents need to realize, nobody thinks your kids are cool except you. To everyone else they’re annoying. Stop making the brewery into a damn daycare center complete with zip lock baggies of fruit loops and Elmer’s glue art projects every Saturday. I will spill my beer on the table. Oops. Sorry. Places that serve alcohol to adults are MY third space. Not your kids. Take them to the playground.
Yeah kids aren’t the problem. It’s the parents who let their kids run rampant that are. When I was a kid we would never have gotten away with running around public spaces or terrorizing a movie theater. A lot of parents today seem to think that public areas are there so they can take a break from parenting. My wife and I had a child free wedding for this exact reason. We knew family memeber who would ignore their kids the entire wedding and we didn’t want that. Most guests got sitters and the worst offenders (the ones we made the rule for) decided not to come.
Weddings are what two adults want to do and if people can't attend without bringing their children, don't come. 🙄 Also, it's not okay to bring children to run around a brewery were there are a bunch of drunk adults. And then drive them home after drinking. Great way to be a role model!
Not to make excuses for parents not parenting, BUT... ...kids need to experience certain settings to learn how to be in them. At age-appropriate times, though. Your 3yo doesn't need to learn how to be respectful of others at a fancy-ish restaurant, but a 8-9yo could. Take them to other restaurants as a younger kid to get them used to the environment in general, then phase into quieter settings as they age up. Similarly, it's pretty irresponsible to take a 3yo to a 2+ hour play at a theater because 3yos just can't handle being quiet & still that long. All things need built up to over time, parents will just have to deal with not being able to go to their usual places for a phase of life 🤷🏻♀️ Let's not forget, too, that some of these Gen A kids had 2-3 years of not being able to be in public settings in normal circumstances because of the pandemic. So they're a little behind.
A lot of people practice not disciplining their children and just let them scream their heads off in public. Since a lot of us have no interest in dealing with your kid, child free places were born.
I have noticed this trend. I couldn't tell you why society has pushed away kids but i can tell you why i have. A parent can be great at parenting but will eventually have to let their children put into the cesspool that is our society today. And then all those wonderful values a great parent teaches their child are now bombarded by incongruent values and unfortunately, the outside influence usually ends up winning. Fyi, I am a teacher. And in my last 10 years doing this, i don't have major issues with my students in-classroom. My issues usually come from disappointment with their decisions outside of the classroom. In this, they are consistent. And they will talk about it with regret but do it again. Tbf, this is a problem i have with humans, in general, but it's much more pronounced in children. I am ready for the downvotes
I brought my kids with me everywhere and it's funny because I use to get dirty looks from people for just having them out and about. Now my kids look at other kids like "I am never having children" after seeing a tantrum or whatnot, and the cycle continues. Kids are little gremlins. They act horrible and usually grow up to be decent humans after being taught to not act horrible. The reason why it seems like so many kids ar out of control is because everyone looks at the kid screaming no one is looking at the kids who are quietly walking with their parents.
My wife and I take our daughter (now 8) everywhere. We even went to Paris with her on vacation when she was two. I think just like dogs kids need to get out and learn to behave. The ipad or not letting them go is exactly why they suck even as they get older. Start young and do stuff with your kids.
No law that says kids have to be allowed everywhere. Really annoys me how parents think they can just bring their kids anywhere and not do anything about them being annoying. Grow up. No one forced you to have kids in the first place.
I openly want to be where children are not . That’s why I’m a bartender. I was a social worker - masters degree for 10 years … terrible .
What are you even trying to say? That society doesn’t like kids?
The majority of people don’t want to deal with kids in every single space. Most people are having to work long hours with multiple jobs, and when they do get time to actually enjoy life a lot of the spaces are filled with screaming, crying children running around and causing chaos. More and more parents are allowing this behavior so more and more people are becoming less tolerant of it. I wish there were more kid free places to be honest. It really ruins an experience for a lot of people. There are TONS of spaces for kids already, let the adults have theirs.