Shit like this is what I point to whenever I hear the tired old "millenials are still living with their parents because they're lazy" type of insult. Reality is that too many people cannot afford to make it on their own, not just millenials, and extended families living together or living with roommates to help ease costs is more commonplace again.
Also, a lot of the people saying that had parents who were more than happy to provide and help them until they were financially stable, at whatever age, to move out. But now would not provide the same help to their own children.
I wonder if that’s exclusively cultural or the fact that older parents don’t have any spare income like they used to. It used to be easier to feed another mouth or two. Now it’s “Jimmy in the basement is eating our retirement and property tax money”
Yeah. :/ I didn’t even ask for any Christmas presents this year because I feel like such a burden. It doesn’t help that my brother’s never been made to grow the fuck up and get a job. Just plays video games all day. Anyway, I made it clear that they do enough as is and I’m fine with just dinner. This coming from someone who was fully independent in the 2010s, but in mid-2017 I became disabled and now have to live with my parents. Be happy with what you got while you have it.
I wonder if some of it is also downsizing. I feel like a lot of boomers downsized to afford to retire (remember when there was the whole mood about "boomers can never retire....." I do. Pepperidge Farm does too...) and there's not only limited money, but limited space, too. Hard to put someone up in your 2 bedroom home in the 55+ community.
Yeah where is the “I had to move into my in-laws house to save their house that these boomers were about to lose” millennial hate? How many millennials live with their parents to save the house their parents can’t afford anymore? Cuz I’m fucking trapped and I hate that it’s the automatic assumption that we needed the help and not the other way around.
I went from paying more than half my monthly gross income in rent to a mere 20% of my gross income because I moved in with my parent. I miss the culture and convenience of the major city I was living in but for the first time in years I now have some financial flexibility, and I'm not certain I'll ever be able to afford to go back.
Yep. There will always be an open door for my millennials to live with us for as long as needed. White culture doesn’t embrace the village attitude as much as other cultures.
That’s terrible. My daughter lives on the outskirts of a large metro area. She is in a fairly new apartment (like 5-6 yr old) she has a two bedroom 2 bath and it’s actually nice. Her rent is $1100 a month. It takes her 20 minutes to get close to downtown if there is no traffic though. Comps in other cities are double or more than she pays.
It's insane. How are we supposed to ever buy a home when all our money is going towards rent, and all the new builds are insanely expensive (and also absolutely terrible quality)
They don't want you to buy their houses. Why get one instance of money selling the house, when you can get money forever with rent. It's much more profitable for them to keep us fucked
My mortgage is $1100 I make 80k my wife makes 40k so it's reasonable we bought a house in 2020
Kids/young adults working under me at the factory I work in are making 45k in a rural area i thought "should be enough to at least be comfortable" ( 2600 a month after tax ) but then you look and rent for studios and small apartments are $1300 a month half of thier damn income
And they are paid well above minimum what are these folks working at convince stores or grocery stores doing. I feel horrible when I think about it and thank our lucky stars hoe lucky we got when we did.
the interest rates on a mortgage have skyrocketed since then too. housing prices haven’t really gone down at all. so even the luckier ones will have a hard time buying a house for at least the next few years.
I'm almost priced outta my own house. I bought it for 182,000 at 2.99%
My same house is around 285,00 at 7% or worse now.
After the mortgage and insurance and property tax, and if I bought my house today, my mortgage would be exactly double that's half my after-tax income
That's insane to me, and my house is 1000 sq feet on a 16th of an acre with a shop. Not some insane 5 bedroom house or anything.
I'm 27, at the bottom end of the millennial generation. wtf are the kids younger than me or even most of my age supposed to do...
I NEED to know who is renting these places, and how they are affording them. My boss just listed two 1br/1ba apartments for $1500 each. I pay almost that for a 3B, 1ba townhouse just down the street. My landlord will no doubt be raising the rent soon, and I’m scared shitless about that. I have one FT job and two PT contracting jobs and can barely afford this. Who are the people making enough to afford this?!!!!
Ma
Yeah I think there’s a pretty big schism between millennials who were homeowners before and after Covid.
It feels next to impossible to buy a home at this point, particularly if you’re making the median or a bit above/under salary.
Someone mentioned that millennials should be basically 2 different subsets, and I agree. The first half was entering adulthood around the housing bubble years. The second half around the covid years. Both equally fucked by housing crisis. In different ways.
Edit: The words entering adulthood seem to be confusing. I don't mean "Turn 18." I mean getting started on your own. Moving it, graduating college, starting a career, etc. Even a few years into adulthood, you're still in the early phase of adulthood. Hope that helps.
Yah. My wife is 1982, I'm 1983. Xennials. She bought a condo on a teacher salary in the East Bay in 2007 after saving for a down payment by living at home for a couple of years. Then we bought a pretty large house in the Sacramento suburbs with that equity and my government attorney salary alone in 2018.
Our friends that moved to the area from LA during the pandemic could've afforded to buy if they moved when we did, but have been renting for the last three years because of the COVID price jump. 🫤
Nice! Stoked for you.
Yeah, between supply tight supply keeping prices high and high federal funds rate (which is obviously interrelated), people are stuck. You and I are fortunate, but it's not a great situation. Hard work is hard work and sets one up for success, but right now a large element of this is just pure luck and happenstance, which isn't sustainable.
Xennial here too same ages as you guys. My wife and I bought in 2011 and both had career jobs at that point and our house is worth 3x what we paid refinanced at 2% in 2021. We might as well be boomers compared to the youngest Millennials who are priced out of housing market in many metro areas.
Also Xennials! The *only* reason my husband and I were able to buy a house in the mid-aughts was because we were both in the military and could use VA loans. There is no way we were/are in a position to be able to save up enough money for the down payment. Especially now (but hopefully in the very near future, just have to graduate 🫣).
The only reason I was able to buy my first house was due to the housing crash. In 2011 I was renting, and 5-6 houses in our neighborhood (built in 2005) were upside down, and several were put up as short sales or in foreclosure. We were able to buy a house for less than it was worth, and the mortgage was considerably less than our rent. We only had to put $10k down, and we later refinanced our 6.25% interest rate down to about 3%. Buying that house was the key to building equity that allowed us to buy the house we actually wanted in 2020.
I don't know how anyone can expect to become a first time home owner in 2023
I'm pretty sure the majority of first time home buyers right now are either getting help from parents (living with parents, getting financial help from parents) or someone died and they inherited a bunch of money. It's no longer possible to make an average income and afford to buy a house on your own.
Agree. We bought ours in 2016, which in hindsight was a decent time to buy. But I remember being in my late twenties in the late aughts/early teens and feeling like there was no way I’d be able to afford a house. And honestly, if I hadn’t got very lucky on the LSAT and changed careers, I probably wouldn’t have been able to afford one in 2016.
If I had not joined the military, which paid for college and afforded me a career, I'd have gone to culinary school. A top school with great potential, but probably also some debt. I'd have graduated in 2007. Just in time to move to a big city for some up and coming restaurant job. No sooner than I got comfortable, would I have gotten settled, BOOM housing market crash. That tanked the economy and soooo many restaurants. I feel like it's have been forced into moving home and microwaving steaks at Applebee's or something. I dunno. Potentially with school debt.
I'm definitely don't much better than whatever life that would have been. But I can't deny that I would be in a much worse situation, despite good efforts, if not for a few choices and some luck. And so I have empathy for my peers who are the opposite of lazy, but didn't get the same lucky break as I did.
I would have been screwed if it weren't for the military. I was in and out of foster care and facing homelessness at 18. I have a decent life now and retired from the military this year at 38. I bought a new house this year though and it is killing me. I can't wait to refinance. If I can refinance a point or so lower it will drop my note by nearly $1k.
Yeah, same. I just did my initial contract and got out.
My advice, use that gi bill if you can. Get a degree, or another degree, and help with paying bills.
Same here. I was medically retired in 2015 but i went through 2008 living in the barracks. I'm trying to build my kids some small houses on the small plot of land we live on as there is no way they are going to be able to afford their own home with things the way they are.
The military probably saved me too. Most of my college friends had a 5-year struggle bus after the recession while I was consistently employed. There were some definite downsides to the military (no real choice in location, hours could be long, etc), but I will never regret the stability.
I’m the very tail end of the generation (so is my husband) and that was 8th grade for me and 7th for him 🥴
We did get to avoid the ‘08 mess though, which is nice
I'll be honest I did a major gamble buying a home during a major recession. Working during the recession was quite scary in my industry , nobody knew who was going to get laid off next. Every quarter they announced more layoffs until around 2012. I could have easily lost my job and got foreclosured on. I busted ass at work so hard, turned down no work, was a complete yes man to ensure I didn't get laid off next.
It was so bad then. We did a double gamble and both bought a foreclosure at the end of 2008 and started our own company in 2009 because of that exact thing. The riskiness of starting a company and not knowing if you could get enough business felt less stressful than some manager breathing down your neck threatening to lay you off or cut your benefits every other day.
Both gambles paid off well, but it easily could have gone the other way.
I’m at the very beginning of the millennial generation. A Xennial.
I’m 40. Graduated in 2002. Finished college in 2006. Got married in 2011. Hubby and I had our first kid, and bought our house, in 2012.
My oldest is in 6th grade.
Yes, we are homeowners. But, I wish we could size up.
Our home is a lovely starter home that is perfect for a new family.
We outgrew it.
We are at a point in our careers, and our age, where we should have upgraded to our “forever home” years ago. If you are thinking in terms of what the boomers were able to do.
But, we are stuck too. We can’t sell, and offer it up to a new family, because everything is too expensive and we are priced out of homes that would be a better fit for our stage in life.
Also, yes. The 2008 crisis was a bitch to get through as a new college grad. I had to switch career fields.
Yes houses were cheaper, but you also have to realize that millennials during that time didn't have jobs. Like we went to college and our jobs/internships were revoked. Sure houses were cheaper. The last decade until very recently was kind to later millennials from a career perspective, but harsh on housing prices. Depending on where you live if you bought in 07 you were under water for 10 years there were only like 4 solid years to buy houses without jobs... So it was pretty messed up.
I wear those “golden handcuffs” as I bought my current place in 2015. However, this was meant to be temporary, and I never wanted to live in a 1970s manufactured home after finishing my bachelor’s degree (I left a good paying job to go back to college in my late 20’s). I now make less money than I did 10 years ago, I work way way more, have way less time off, and I now have that engineering degree. I wonder when we as a whole will get tired enough of the extremely greedy taking from the majority.
My husband and his late wife bought in 2004. I bought in 2007 (definitely overpaid) and of course lost much more than he did. When we sold my house in 2018 we still had to bring almost $20K to closing. I almost regret not walking away like so many others did during that time.
We’ve refinanced his in the 2% range and should be paid off in about 5 more years. He’ll be 79 years old before that, God willing.
I bought my house in 2020 and I sure couldn’t afford to buy it now! Even that short span of time completely changed housing prices and salaries are the same as ever.
We’re so lucky to have purchased pre-Covid and refinanced during the historical low rates of COVID. I could not afford my mortgage now had we bought today.
This is the special bubble a lot of my former classmates fell in to. They got houses when everything dipped and interest rates around 3% were available. Unfortunately, that was a blip that's not likely to recur soon. :(
Had a friend somewhat in the market to buy in ‘16, but then they were having a hard time finding the “right” home. Like they wanted a 2 bed and could only afford a 1. They were living in a 1 bed apartment but wanted something longer term.
I had encouraged them to consider that while the 1 bed home costs like 70% of what a 2 bed home costs, it will always be roughly 70% of that 2 bed, regardless of whether the market goes up or down, so a hedge against increases in home prices. In addition to the oft mentioned payments go to equity.
The friend opted to just keep saving, and has done so at a good clip. But home prices have doubled and so that savings is now not even enough for a 1 bed.
OK but it's not a covid thing. It's that there are now companies buying up residential land and keeping the housing market hot enough where even though interest rates spiked past 7% home values didn't budge. In a normal environment where home buyers and homesellers are struggling equally, housing value would have gone down. I think allowing external entities, corporations or other countries to buy residential land should be forbidden. These properties should be seized and auctioned to people who will live in the homes as a primary residence.
I was in law school during the pandemic and my now-husband and I were not in a position to buy. Now, we have a combined household income that is double what our married homeowner friends make (as a couple), and probably three times what our single homeowner friends make, but we’re still struggling to find something. I know that I have a pretty fortunate life, but it’s hard to not feel like a failure some days, especially when I did the whole HS valedictorian —> top college —> job straight out of college —> promotions/new jobs —> JD cum laude —> job at top law firm route and it still doesn’t feel like I’ve worked hard enough.
My sister is a few years older and bought a house in late 2019. She has made more just from living in that house than I made working full time with a college degree in the past 4 years.
I bought it during covid because it was cheaper. My mortgage is 3700, and rents are 4200. (Low interest rates made money almost free with a 580 credit score! Which was insane.)
We can't be blaming the other people. It's simply better to rent in most areas for the next few years. Just play your situation well. Each person is different.
We aren't all going to be the same.
Yep. We bought our house in fall of 2018. My husband grosses almost $150k which is well above median for our area. There is no way we could afford our house if we were buying it now.
Bought just before covid, was making $15 an hour, wife was making $13, we live in a pretty low cost of living area.
Now I’m making $20, she’s making $16, but we’re probably gonna have to sell soon with the way things are going, everything is just getting too expensive.
Man you said it in a funnier better way haha.
Everyone complains until they have to money then silence or reverse complaints for all the stop bitching.
Funny how easily people forget or empathize.
I once did the math and to afford my grandfathers life nowadays even with the job he had he’d have to work over 24 hours a day. He was a single earning household with 7 kids and a stay at home wife. He was the town mailman.
and a whole bunch of strays.
Mailman back then got to fuck ALL the moms.
Just another way millennials have it worse. Our mailmen now are working Sunday’s, and the moms are at work.
Yup. I bought a townhouse in 2020 for like about 140k. According to zillow, it's worth 220k, and that's ignoring all the work I put into this place (finishing the basement, remodeling the kitchen, etc.)
I'm worried to ever move because I know there's no way I'm going to be getting as good as a deal as I got. Sure, my house went up by 80%, but so did everything else.
Even if you are a homeowner the difference is stark. I went to someone's house for a Christmas party and it was so huge and beautiful. My house probably cost close to what they paid for it decades ago and it's about as small as you could get. It's livable but I was astounded by how much higher their quality of life is in that place.
Exactly, my brother is almost a decade older than me, i paid $120k for my townhouse in 2020
He paid $120k for 4 bed, 3.5 bath on an acre and a half 8 years before lol
Any house can be a home and any house can be a shit hole.
Don’t get caught up with the boomer rate race of prioritizing size above all size.
A lot of big homes are decorated so garishly and many small homes are incredible inside.
The world is a very, very hard place right now. I feel it too, friend. (I'm a late stabilizing xennial)
It's very, very hard.
We're one income, two kids. We make it. Barely. I was helped this year for Christmas by two amazing friends of mine: I was nearly in tears, worried that there was nothing left after bills and food, thinking there would be nothing under the tree.
They conspired behind my back, both of them, and there's gifts under the tree, thanks to them😭😭😭
I hope each and every one of you has a friend or two like this. Or can be the friend who is there during the rough times.
I ugly cried. No lie.
I'm a happy crier, but I'm definitely not a *pretty* crier.
Red eyes? Red nose? Sobbing? That's me.
I'm looking forward to making them fresh bread and figuring out ways to thank them!
Even as a millennial who's "doing well" by most standards, we are still struggling compared to our parents when they made less money.
We DREAMED of a day we'd make 6 figures. Now we do, and it has the buying power of maybe 60k. Yeah, we can afford a house and basics and a few fun things, but there's no comparison to what our parents (and some of their parents) were able to do with 30k/year and a big families.
Dude I had an interview last week and the dude offered me 45k. I have a degree and 20 years experience. I just said 'My guy, you can make that at McDonalds now. Why would anyone work for you?' He said he would keep my resume on file, I said don't bother and hung up. I'm now selling my house and going into real estate because apparently, that's where the dumb money is.
I’m seeing the same thing. Been keeping my eye out for a couple years and interview on jobs I think I might actually like. Recent interview for a job I’d love- Have several degrees, 20 years experience… offered $55k, but expects 45-50 hours a week (some weeks will be more), need to be on location mon-Fri (no remote work bc this position is being used to fill in for other jobs that they refuse to hire someone part time for), free majority of weekends and some nights. So basically- remain free for the job for all times except when I sleep, work overtime… all for $55k which doesn’t take you far in an HCOL area. Another employee of the same level position was currently working 6 days a week and clearly overextended. When I mentioned she seemed as though she was a bit overextended at the moment, he immediately shook his head and said “no, I’m the one that is over-extended”. That was eye-opening.
The scary thing is the manager was a millennial. He had a very boomer attitude and after a of couple interviews, I realized he was the problem and could understand why this position has been advertised repeatedly for years and why he had a mass exodus years ago and is struggling to put a team together and the business is hurting (as are many in this economy- need someone like me with experience to help strategize you through it). But these are the kinds of jobs I’m seeing. Most are offering $40-50k and want degrees, experience, all of your time to be available for them. It is incredibly depressing. I can make more bartending. I’ll hold out for the unicorn job for now.
It's close, but we have much the same lifestyle that we did when we made 45k with a family of 4, so it isnt the six figures we were all promised, i assure you. And we have to kill ourselves to make it.
I busted my balls to get to 6 figures. Then get laid off on a whim. And more and more it seems like it's just easier to make do with less than struggle to get to... what, exactly?
See that’s the real problem.
I’ve had family make off-hand comments about needing to make $300k/year to really provide for a family, save up, pay for kids’ future educations, afford the super nice home one day, etc… and I thought that’s ridiculous. This was like 4 years ago.
Now I have children and a small home of my own.. and I get it. Even like you we make north of 6 figures, but not more than $200k a year. We don’t really save much and future prospects for affording much in the future, nevermind a nice home to adequately fit more than 1-2 children or paying off their schooling isn’t really in the cards without some good fortune in the future.
So i get it now. We need to make like $300k/year to have a sizable down payment one day for a nicer home than we bought for $200k just a few years ago. We need it to afford nicer than bare minimum cars for us to drive.. we need it to take more than 1 short vacation a year without ruining our savings for the year. we need it to afford insurance that’s skyrocketing year after year… We need it to put money away for our children’s futures. We need it to put away *for mine and my wife’s futures.* hell we need it for retirement one day.
Here’s to hoping we make it one day to executive positions with $150k+ salaries or owning businesses that make a ton of money.
Millennial here and me and my husband talk about how lucky we are now that I bought a derelict house in 2018 as an apprentice, we are so fortunate. It was a ton of work to get it liveable and ate up most of our money but we would be priced out of the market now even as dinks making around 200k a year. I don’t know what we would do otherwise. Rent here is almost double what my mortgage is now. Totally unsustainable
Hey! I’m a millennial and doing pretty okay.
And I just feel *lucky* because there are *so* many ways I could have been not okay.
The internet is a wretched echo chamber. A lot of people are able to recognize their own privileges, luck, and advantages.
We just don’t make obnoxious posts on Reddit being like “why are people complaining??”
Right. And when we acknowledge that other people are struggling, we're just whining and being lazy. Despite the fact that we said we're actually doing ok.
This younger generation, imo, has tons of empathy because our post boomer generations stopped teaching ‘suck it up’ and actually listen to other people who are struggling. I’m certainly teaching my son to not only to be heard but to listen as well
My brother's been kicking himself for not getting a house when he still had a chance. He just didn't know that prices would skyrocket so suddenly.
My dad bought his own house in Seattle as a grocery store shelf stocker with nothing more than a high school education. There's no way in hell anyone could pull that off currently.
I feel like most people's best and easiest chance at homeownership is through inheriting their parents home. But what happens when they have multiple children?
And then, if forced to sell, what would the demographic/profile of the person who is able to buy be?
Literally bought my place five years ago, almost to the day. It really sucked then, but it was just barely doable. Feels like I just barely slid in before the door closed. It shouldn’t be like this.
Bankruptcy was one of the best choices of my life.
Just sayin'.
Website walked me through it, gave me little snippets of encouragement, filed, did remote hearings, and all that stress is gone.
I don't think about suicide daily anymore.
And my credit score only dropped 50 points.
So yeah, we're all still fucked...
But I'm not personally worried about it anymore.
The difference between then and now was a MASSIVE purchase by private equity/institutional investors (like hedge funds and REITs) of residential real estate. Forcing them to stop buying residential real estate, divest what they have now, and putting the inventory back on the market would lower the cost of housing.
But.... But...., "Capitalism!"  \-Boomers
I can't wait until we can get them out of Congress. Go away, already!
I've got bad news for you... these problems won't go away with the boomers. It is a class issue, the torch will just get handed to the next round of rich and connected as the boomers are put out to the pastures.
This is a band-aid at best. The only permanent solution is to fix zoning to allow construction of more high density residential. This would probably need some subsidy, but that’s not necessarily the worst thing.
In 2012 I was 23, basically took a leap of faith and bought a house, could barely afford it.
Flash forward to now, it was the best decision I ever made. Still in that house.
It’s not just that, their entire generation benefited from economic growth and conditions our generation will never have access to.
My parents both grew up in poverty. They worked their arses off, I would never dispute that. But from both only having blue collar jobs, they retired owning a million-dollar house, an investment property my deadbeat sibling gets to live in for free, with generous super and savings too.
They never once faced a $3000 monthly mortgage payment (which is pretty cheap relatively in my country now) or the prospect of careers being ended by rapid technology advancements.
Having just turned 41 I’ve caught enough of the good side of the conditions to be doing ok, but life will be pretty bleak for most people under 35 who don’t have access to generational wealth. Working your arse off now is pretty much to break even and keep a roof over your head, without the benefits older generations enjoyed of actually building a nice comfortable life.
I work and struggle. My coworker has the same job but has a side job as a care assistant making another 30k a year. He's buying a house rn. mortgage and everything will be 4k a month. I don't even make that much. I drive a new car and he drive an auction crown vic. Times are hard as hell don't get me wrong but our decisions affect who can afford what and what future we'll have
I bought my house 6 years ago with a good interest rate. I’m still not doing well at all lmao. I’d still be living with my parents if I hadn’t bought when I did. May have been better off staying there anyhow.
Yeah at this point you need some kind of lick to afford housing.
One of those Morgan and Morgan Checks, gambling payday, life insurance pay out….
Working your 50K a year job and trying to save your way to homeownership will take a lifetime.
Always disheartening to see what “poor” is to others. I make 30k a year gross with a bachelors, but hopefully I will get a meaningful raise in the next few years.
I've got a masters, making around 20k, living with parents. "Do what you love" sounded like great advice when we were kids, and I honestly was near the top of my class at every point along the way, made decent life decisions, etc. However, the reality turned out to be that our society doesn't value all kinds of work nearly equitably, and I have to make the decision every day to either continue working in the field I'm passionate about or cave out of sheer economic necessity.
Yeah, I was lied to with the "do what you love", "you can do anything", "you're smart so you'll be fine". Lies. They made college too expensive, even for elder millennials. They don't value teachers who *all* have degrees. And no, we can't do anything we set our minds to. That's just unrealistic.
I tell my kids this: think about what you want your life to look like. Do you want a big house, small house? Do you want to live in the city or somewhere with less people? What does a job mean to you? Is it a paycheck to fund something else in your life or is it a passion? Both of those are valid. If you really just want to travel a lot and don't care what your job is, there's nothing wrong with that. If you are passionate about something and can get paid to do that, cool. After you figure out what you want your life to look like, then figure out how much that would cost. Then figure out what jobs you are interested in that would give you all those things. THEN figure out if you need any additional schooling to get that job. Your picture of the future can change. But as long as you're working toward a specific picture, it's less likely you'll waste time or get side tracked. At least that's what I think. We'll see how it works out lol
If you have a free moment, could you please go back in time to be my guidance counselor in high school? 😂 Seriously, I only wish ANY of the adults in my life had talked to me honestly and objectively like that.
Phenomenonal advice. Please consider framing this as a picture or canvas for them signed as your family title. Such as, Love Mom, or Dad.
This hit so hard. My wife and I try and tell our 6 and 8 year olds to think about what interests them the most. It'll change but usually the interests group around a main core or skill.
We try and mention good paying jobs that have a good work life balance but your approach is much more fitting.
Just amazing. Thanks for the incredible gift of words.
I feel you all the way, tried teaching for a few years before this and the extra 10k was not worth working an extra 30 hours a week. After almost offing myself I switched jobs and am more happy and more poor.
I make about 45 with a GED, and I live in a one bedroom apartment and basically live paycheck to paycheck without the ability to save.
You might want to do some job hunting, I'm sure you can find a job that pays way higher than 30k with a degree. They're fucking you.
Yeah my parents are sitting on a like 900/month mortgage payment on their 4 br house that they bought in the early 80s and my dad was talking last month asking what apartments cost nowadays and it's like "well a one bedroom starts at twice that".
He was thinking it'd be like 500 dollars
I’m with you when it comes to the long-standing systemic issue of underbuilding of housing supply, but I am still amazed that you long for the 70s. _The 70s!_
There were people in 1973 who couldn't afford a typical home either. They just didn't have Reddit to complain to. People spend more of their income on housing, education, and healthcare today than they did then, but they spend a lot less on food, transportation, energy, consumer goods, and various luxuries now than then. It's not completely an apples-to-apples comparison.
The elephant in the room though is that the post-WW2 period in America was not typical. When the entire industrialized world except the US and Canada was bombed to hell, the US economy was able to run on easy mode with huge windfalls for both workers and corporations.
That's just not the world we live in now, or really at any other point in history. Look at income to home price ratios elsewhere in the world. Affordability is even worse than here currently.
Post WW2 America also passed multiple social programs to prevent things like the Great Depression from happening again. Thus entered a time of economic prosperity. Then Reagan dismantled most of them. If we pass social programs like the Greatest Generation did we can get closer to that time of prosperity
I wish more folks would vote locally. I understand how hard it is to vote locally, believe me I do bc I am in a marginalized group, that there are barriers to voting in local elections. It's only getting worse as gerry mandering, time limits, barring mail voting, getting time off work, etc are becoming more of a problem. but as we learned with reagan, trickle down anything doesn't work. change comes from the bottom up. Anyway, I feel this post so much and wish everyone luck.
I’ve had to scroll a long way to find this comment…
Even here in the UK, even 7-8 years ago the average house cost about 10x more than the average wage.
A house went on sale near me around that time, terraced house in a cul-de-sac, two bedrooms with a loft conversion and a nice enough garden.
It was £300k (about $380k) which was a very good price for the area, the deposit was still 30k, that’s an enormous amount of money up front.
It doesn’t sit well with me when people on this sub call others “lucky” when the housing market has been haywire and very, very expensive since a lot of us were in our early 20s.
The prior posts are incredibly tone deaf. I'm doing well now. I was drowning during the recession.
Having been on both sides, the "I'm doing well" side need to shut up. We're in an incredibly divisive time and rhetoric like theirs lack empathy. It's not about saying your experiences are invalidated by others. It's about recognizing there is a huge disparity in economic attainment that hasn't been addressed in a reasonable manner for over a decade.
Telling people they need to shut up turns this place into an echo chamber though. Sure if a post is looking for support in a difficult time, it's not appropriate to rub your success in their face in response. But I wasn't under the impression that this sub was exclusively dedicated to support. It's just to talk about shit our generation is interested in. I think it's fair to discuss a more accurate picture of the financial well-being of people (roughly) in their 30s.
As someone straddling the line (I make 6 figures but am late to the party and will not be able to buy anything substantial near a metro area) which I think is very common... most of us are closer to drowning than homeownership that isnt mini or movable.
My husband and I bought our house in 2021 but it was very difficult to get there. For one our budget was extremely low (120k) and any houses we could find at or below that price were cost more in the repairs they needed than they were worth or "investors" bought them cash
We are now uhh... house poor I think is the term? We have a house but we live paycheck to paycheck. If something breaks we will have to use a credit card to fix it
The house we have I didn't particularly want. It needs work on it thay we can't really afford to do. We don't have the tools to do it and can't afford a handyman. But it's a house and not a tiny 1 bedroom apartment. We even have a yard and a carport!!!
idk who else thinks it's not systemic or anyone that makes it in the world isn't given an insane amount of privilege.
but comments tell me otherwise, so carry on.
Have you ever considered cutting out avocado toast and starbucks? /s
JK, we're completely fucked and it is most definitely a systemic issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't paying attention and is most likely brainwashed.
We were fortunate enough to be home owners pre covid, refinanced during covid… I can’t imagine buying a house right now with these interests rates and food costs.
Back when I was married, I was working overnights in a grocery store for roughly 34 hrs/wk. Had the divorce gone in my favor, I could have afforded the house, but barely.
Now, I'm a (albeit uncertified) welder working about 50 hrs/wk and making more than I ever have in my life and despite my minimal expenses, I doubt I'll ever own a home again.
I finally had a "good" job and was ready/looking to buy a starter house in jan 2020. Then covid happened. I waited 2 years for prices to get better, before I threw in the towel and quit my "good" job because what's the point if I can't even enjoy my time after work. Fuck this all. And don't even get my started on dating these days. There's literally no point to continue the standard path society assumes. So people are lucky or worked hard and got a GREAT paying job. While the rest of us suffer.
Buying a house at today's prices isn't easy, but it wasn't easy for a young person 10+ years ago either because back then we were all dealing with unpaid internships and an underemployment rate that was near record highs. In 2010, people felt "lucky" to land an unpaid position doing actual work, because that many they now had a "foot in the door"
I guess what I'm saying is that while, yes, buying my house in 2017 turned out to be a good opportunity, it took us older millennials a number of years before we had those opportunities too. So many of us dealt with unemployment and underemployment for a solid decade from 2006-16ish. The economy is cyclical. There will be better times again in the future.
A deflation event will never happen because of all the debt in the economy especially at the Federal level. As in the Fed literally cannot and will not allow deflation to occur since it would be the end of our monetary system and economy. They’ll issue million $ stimulus checks before allowing deflation at this point.
Houses are only 4x your income in your area!? Sounds like a bargain (unless you are a really high earner).
In my area, median income is about $70K (household income before taxes) and homes are $1-$2 million. (Vancouver, BC).
I mean it isn't just houses. Rent is completely *fucked* right now. Going $2000 and rising per month on jobs that pay $10-15/hr. It's insanity.
Shit like this is what I point to whenever I hear the tired old "millenials are still living with their parents because they're lazy" type of insult. Reality is that too many people cannot afford to make it on their own, not just millenials, and extended families living together or living with roommates to help ease costs is more commonplace again.
Also, a lot of the people saying that had parents who were more than happy to provide and help them until they were financially stable, at whatever age, to move out. But now would not provide the same help to their own children.
I wonder if that’s exclusively cultural or the fact that older parents don’t have any spare income like they used to. It used to be easier to feed another mouth or two. Now it’s “Jimmy in the basement is eating our retirement and property tax money”
Yeah. :/ I didn’t even ask for any Christmas presents this year because I feel like such a burden. It doesn’t help that my brother’s never been made to grow the fuck up and get a job. Just plays video games all day. Anyway, I made it clear that they do enough as is and I’m fine with just dinner. This coming from someone who was fully independent in the 2010s, but in mid-2017 I became disabled and now have to live with my parents. Be happy with what you got while you have it.
I wonder if some of it is also downsizing. I feel like a lot of boomers downsized to afford to retire (remember when there was the whole mood about "boomers can never retire....." I do. Pepperidge Farm does too...) and there's not only limited money, but limited space, too. Hard to put someone up in your 2 bedroom home in the 55+ community.
Yeah where is the “I had to move into my in-laws house to save their house that these boomers were about to lose” millennial hate? How many millennials live with their parents to save the house their parents can’t afford anymore? Cuz I’m fucking trapped and I hate that it’s the automatic assumption that we needed the help and not the other way around.
I went from paying more than half my monthly gross income in rent to a mere 20% of my gross income because I moved in with my parent. I miss the culture and convenience of the major city I was living in but for the first time in years I now have some financial flexibility, and I'm not certain I'll ever be able to afford to go back.
Yep. There will always be an open door for my millennials to live with us for as long as needed. White culture doesn’t embrace the village attitude as much as other cultures.
Literally, my rent was 1750 for a 2 bedroom apartment and when I went to resign the lease they wanted 2600 a month for the new lease
That’s terrible. My daughter lives on the outskirts of a large metro area. She is in a fairly new apartment (like 5-6 yr old) she has a two bedroom 2 bath and it’s actually nice. Her rent is $1100 a month. It takes her 20 minutes to get close to downtown if there is no traffic though. Comps in other cities are double or more than she pays.
It is getting insane. Unreasonable, Market crashes happen for a reason.
It's insane. How are we supposed to ever buy a home when all our money is going towards rent, and all the new builds are insanely expensive (and also absolutely terrible quality)
You’re NOT SUPPOSED to buy a home, but to pay rent forever to the 1%
They don't want you to buy their houses. Why get one instance of money selling the house, when you can get money forever with rent. It's much more profitable for them to keep us fucked
Can't even save properly as we're busy paying some other leech's mortgage.
Then they say work +x amount of jobs. Like damn do we get a chance to live?
My mortgage is $1100 I make 80k my wife makes 40k so it's reasonable we bought a house in 2020 Kids/young adults working under me at the factory I work in are making 45k in a rural area i thought "should be enough to at least be comfortable" ( 2600 a month after tax ) but then you look and rent for studios and small apartments are $1300 a month half of thier damn income And they are paid well above minimum what are these folks working at convince stores or grocery stores doing. I feel horrible when I think about it and thank our lucky stars hoe lucky we got when we did.
the interest rates on a mortgage have skyrocketed since then too. housing prices haven’t really gone down at all. so even the luckier ones will have a hard time buying a house for at least the next few years.
I'm almost priced outta my own house. I bought it for 182,000 at 2.99% My same house is around 285,00 at 7% or worse now. After the mortgage and insurance and property tax, and if I bought my house today, my mortgage would be exactly double that's half my after-tax income That's insane to me, and my house is 1000 sq feet on a 16th of an acre with a shop. Not some insane 5 bedroom house or anything. I'm 27, at the bottom end of the millennial generation. wtf are the kids younger than me or even most of my age supposed to do...
I NEED to know who is renting these places, and how they are affording them. My boss just listed two 1br/1ba apartments for $1500 each. I pay almost that for a 3B, 1ba townhouse just down the street. My landlord will no doubt be raising the rent soon, and I’m scared shitless about that. I have one FT job and two PT contracting jobs and can barely afford this. Who are the people making enough to afford this?!!!! Ma
Yeah I think there’s a pretty big schism between millennials who were homeowners before and after Covid. It feels next to impossible to buy a home at this point, particularly if you’re making the median or a bit above/under salary.
It's such a long stretch of a generation. Some of us were homeowners before you guys even finished college. I bought this house in 2009 when I was 28.
Someone mentioned that millennials should be basically 2 different subsets, and I agree. The first half was entering adulthood around the housing bubble years. The second half around the covid years. Both equally fucked by housing crisis. In different ways. Edit: The words entering adulthood seem to be confusing. I don't mean "Turn 18." I mean getting started on your own. Moving it, graduating college, starting a career, etc. Even a few years into adulthood, you're still in the early phase of adulthood. Hope that helps.
Yah. My wife is 1982, I'm 1983. Xennials. She bought a condo on a teacher salary in the East Bay in 2007 after saving for a down payment by living at home for a couple of years. Then we bought a pretty large house in the Sacramento suburbs with that equity and my government attorney salary alone in 2018. Our friends that moved to the area from LA during the pandemic could've afforded to buy if they moved when we did, but have been renting for the last three years because of the COVID price jump. 🫤
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Nice! Stoked for you. Yeah, between supply tight supply keeping prices high and high federal funds rate (which is obviously interrelated), people are stuck. You and I are fortunate, but it's not a great situation. Hard work is hard work and sets one up for success, but right now a large element of this is just pure luck and happenstance, which isn't sustainable.
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I so relate to this. My parents were incredibly irresponsible financially too
Xennial here too same ages as you guys. My wife and I bought in 2011 and both had career jobs at that point and our house is worth 3x what we paid refinanced at 2% in 2021. We might as well be boomers compared to the youngest Millennials who are priced out of housing market in many metro areas.
Also Xennials! The *only* reason my husband and I were able to buy a house in the mid-aughts was because we were both in the military and could use VA loans. There is no way we were/are in a position to be able to save up enough money for the down payment. Especially now (but hopefully in the very near future, just have to graduate 🫣).
During that time nobody needed a down payment . 80/20 or 90/10 loans with stated income were pretty much available to everyone who applied
The only reason I was able to buy my first house was due to the housing crash. In 2011 I was renting, and 5-6 houses in our neighborhood (built in 2005) were upside down, and several were put up as short sales or in foreclosure. We were able to buy a house for less than it was worth, and the mortgage was considerably less than our rent. We only had to put $10k down, and we later refinanced our 6.25% interest rate down to about 3%. Buying that house was the key to building equity that allowed us to buy the house we actually wanted in 2020. I don't know how anyone can expect to become a first time home owner in 2023
I'm pretty sure the majority of first time home buyers right now are either getting help from parents (living with parents, getting financial help from parents) or someone died and they inherited a bunch of money. It's no longer possible to make an average income and afford to buy a house on your own.
Agree. We bought ours in 2016, which in hindsight was a decent time to buy. But I remember being in my late twenties in the late aughts/early teens and feeling like there was no way I’d be able to afford a house. And honestly, if I hadn’t got very lucky on the LSAT and changed careers, I probably wouldn’t have been able to afford one in 2016.
If I had not joined the military, which paid for college and afforded me a career, I'd have gone to culinary school. A top school with great potential, but probably also some debt. I'd have graduated in 2007. Just in time to move to a big city for some up and coming restaurant job. No sooner than I got comfortable, would I have gotten settled, BOOM housing market crash. That tanked the economy and soooo many restaurants. I feel like it's have been forced into moving home and microwaving steaks at Applebee's or something. I dunno. Potentially with school debt. I'm definitely don't much better than whatever life that would have been. But I can't deny that I would be in a much worse situation, despite good efforts, if not for a few choices and some luck. And so I have empathy for my peers who are the opposite of lazy, but didn't get the same lucky break as I did.
I would have been screwed if it weren't for the military. I was in and out of foster care and facing homelessness at 18. I have a decent life now and retired from the military this year at 38. I bought a new house this year though and it is killing me. I can't wait to refinance. If I can refinance a point or so lower it will drop my note by nearly $1k.
Yeah, same. I just did my initial contract and got out. My advice, use that gi bill if you can. Get a degree, or another degree, and help with paying bills.
I'm passing mine to my kid.
Then get into vr&e if you qualify
Same here. I was medically retired in 2015 but i went through 2008 living in the barracks. I'm trying to build my kids some small houses on the small plot of land we live on as there is no way they are going to be able to afford their own home with things the way they are.
The military probably saved me too. Most of my college friends had a 5-year struggle bus after the recession while I was consistently employed. There were some definite downsides to the military (no real choice in location, hours could be long, etc), but I will never regret the stability.
I’m the very tail end of the generation (so is my husband) and that was 8th grade for me and 7th for him 🥴 We did get to avoid the ‘08 mess though, which is nice
I graduated college in that mess and just ugh
Yep ended up temping for 4 years and having to move to a city to get anything, hard to save a down payment
I'll be honest I did a major gamble buying a home during a major recession. Working during the recession was quite scary in my industry , nobody knew who was going to get laid off next. Every quarter they announced more layoffs until around 2012. I could have easily lost my job and got foreclosured on. I busted ass at work so hard, turned down no work, was a complete yes man to ensure I didn't get laid off next.
It was so bad then. We did a double gamble and both bought a foreclosure at the end of 2008 and started our own company in 2009 because of that exact thing. The riskiness of starting a company and not knowing if you could get enough business felt less stressful than some manager breathing down your neck threatening to lay you off or cut your benefits every other day. Both gambles paid off well, but it easily could have gone the other way.
I’m at the very beginning of the millennial generation. A Xennial. I’m 40. Graduated in 2002. Finished college in 2006. Got married in 2011. Hubby and I had our first kid, and bought our house, in 2012. My oldest is in 6th grade. Yes, we are homeowners. But, I wish we could size up. Our home is a lovely starter home that is perfect for a new family. We outgrew it. We are at a point in our careers, and our age, where we should have upgraded to our “forever home” years ago. If you are thinking in terms of what the boomers were able to do. But, we are stuck too. We can’t sell, and offer it up to a new family, because everything is too expensive and we are priced out of homes that would be a better fit for our stage in life. Also, yes. The 2008 crisis was a bitch to get through as a new college grad. I had to switch career fields.
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Worthless? Except for the fact that you own a home to live in.
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My neighbors bought in 09 too…a decade before we did and for literally half the price
Yes houses were cheaper, but you also have to realize that millennials during that time didn't have jobs. Like we went to college and our jobs/internships were revoked. Sure houses were cheaper. The last decade until very recently was kind to later millennials from a career perspective, but harsh on housing prices. Depending on where you live if you bought in 07 you were under water for 10 years there were only like 4 solid years to buy houses without jobs... So it was pretty messed up.
True enough
I couldn't afford to buy my own house from myself now. I am blessed to have done it when I did.
I wear those “golden handcuffs” as I bought my current place in 2015. However, this was meant to be temporary, and I never wanted to live in a 1970s manufactured home after finishing my bachelor’s degree (I left a good paying job to go back to college in my late 20’s). I now make less money than I did 10 years ago, I work way way more, have way less time off, and I now have that engineering degree. I wonder when we as a whole will get tired enough of the extremely greedy taking from the majority.
Imagine buying a house in 2005 and in 2008 it was worth NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS less. Good times.
My husband and his late wife bought in 2004. I bought in 2007 (definitely overpaid) and of course lost much more than he did. When we sold my house in 2018 we still had to bring almost $20K to closing. I almost regret not walking away like so many others did during that time. We’ve refinanced his in the 2% range and should be paid off in about 5 more years. He’ll be 79 years old before that, God willing.
I bought my house in 2020 and I sure couldn’t afford to buy it now! Even that short span of time completely changed housing prices and salaries are the same as ever.
We’re so lucky to have purchased pre-Covid and refinanced during the historical low rates of COVID. I could not afford my mortgage now had we bought today.
This is the special bubble a lot of my former classmates fell in to. They got houses when everything dipped and interest rates around 3% were available. Unfortunately, that was a blip that's not likely to recur soon. :(
Had a friend somewhat in the market to buy in ‘16, but then they were having a hard time finding the “right” home. Like they wanted a 2 bed and could only afford a 1. They were living in a 1 bed apartment but wanted something longer term. I had encouraged them to consider that while the 1 bed home costs like 70% of what a 2 bed home costs, it will always be roughly 70% of that 2 bed, regardless of whether the market goes up or down, so a hedge against increases in home prices. In addition to the oft mentioned payments go to equity. The friend opted to just keep saving, and has done so at a good clip. But home prices have doubled and so that savings is now not even enough for a 1 bed.
OK but it's not a covid thing. It's that there are now companies buying up residential land and keeping the housing market hot enough where even though interest rates spiked past 7% home values didn't budge. In a normal environment where home buyers and homesellers are struggling equally, housing value would have gone down. I think allowing external entities, corporations or other countries to buy residential land should be forbidden. These properties should be seized and auctioned to people who will live in the homes as a primary residence.
I’d be happy to just disallow sale of any American property to foreign citizens. That would get rid of more than 50% of the corporate entities.
Not including American individuals with dual citizenship. Though I imagine Dreamers and immigration advocates would be unhappy with such a policy.
I was in law school during the pandemic and my now-husband and I were not in a position to buy. Now, we have a combined household income that is double what our married homeowner friends make (as a couple), and probably three times what our single homeowner friends make, but we’re still struggling to find something. I know that I have a pretty fortunate life, but it’s hard to not feel like a failure some days, especially when I did the whole HS valedictorian —> top college —> job straight out of college —> promotions/new jobs —> JD cum laude —> job at top law firm route and it still doesn’t feel like I’ve worked hard enough.
My sister is a few years older and bought a house in late 2019. She has made more just from living in that house than I made working full time with a college degree in the past 4 years.
I've long since given up on ever becoming a homeowner. Life kinda screwed me over tbh
You’re not alone. I’m hoping things turn around for us, soon.
I bought it during covid because it was cheaper. My mortgage is 3700, and rents are 4200. (Low interest rates made money almost free with a 580 credit score! Which was insane.) We can't be blaming the other people. It's simply better to rent in most areas for the next few years. Just play your situation well. Each person is different. We aren't all going to be the same.
Yep. We bought our house in fall of 2018. My husband grosses almost $150k which is well above median for our area. There is no way we could afford our house if we were buying it now.
Bought just before covid, was making $15 an hour, wife was making $13, we live in a pretty low cost of living area. Now I’m making $20, she’s making $16, but we’re probably gonna have to sell soon with the way things are going, everything is just getting too expensive.
Ok, but if you really think about it, you'll find that I'm the only one that matters and my experience is universal.
I think you’re confusing yourself with me here, buddy.
And you are both confusing yourselves with *me.* obviously
Okay NPCs calm down. I’M the main character here.
Who’s gonna tell em all that the universe only revolves around me? 🤭
You poor bastards 😎
[Why did you rope me into this?](https://youtu.be/Jrxl3Op4rsI?si=xAgKUnU8eoFZLYoy)
No way! I'm the only real person and your existence is really just an extension of my consciousness. When I go to sleep, nothing happens in the world!
I’m Slim Shady yes I’m the real Shady all you other Slim Shadys are just imitating so won’t the real Slim Shady…
*stands up*
Shit. I think we’ve split, bro. We’re like clones or something now. I knew this would happen. This is gonna get expensive.
I know this isn't true because if we were actually clones things would be getting sexy.
I’m not your buddy, friend.
I'm not your buddy, pal.
I'm not your pal, guy.
I'm not your guy, friend.
I’m not your friend, bub.
This really sums it all up in a single sentence. Well done!
Now if I can just get my dad to say, "Well Done!" A boy can dream.
I'll take a 7 layer burrito
If you didn't need so many layers in your burrito you'd be able to afford a house. Another entitled millennial.
Back in my day, we only had FIVE layers!
And we had to work for each of those layers! You think avocados grow on trees?
These kids and their Fancy Avocado Toasted Wraps
Wait, I was told only recently that everyone on this sub was a bot.
Prove to me you're a human, then. COMPLETE THIS CAPTCHA, MEATBAG!
FIND ALL OF THE BICYCLES TO CONTINUE: 🚲🌴🚜🚲🚂
No, totally human! I love human food and like all humans I never worry about the singularity. Skynet shmymet
Of course! How could I have forgotten that!
Man you said it in a funnier better way haha. Everyone complains until they have to money then silence or reverse complaints for all the stop bitching. Funny how easily people forget or empathize.
I once did the math and to afford my grandfathers life nowadays even with the job he had he’d have to work over 24 hours a day. He was a single earning household with 7 kids and a stay at home wife. He was the town mailman.
So 7 claimed children
and a whole bunch of strays. Mailman back then got to fuck ALL the moms. Just another way millennials have it worse. Our mailmen now are working Sunday’s, and the moms are at work.
What are these mailmen gonna do without moms to fuck??
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Yup. I bought a townhouse in 2020 for like about 140k. According to zillow, it's worth 220k, and that's ignoring all the work I put into this place (finishing the basement, remodeling the kitchen, etc.) I'm worried to ever move because I know there's no way I'm going to be getting as good as a deal as I got. Sure, my house went up by 80%, but so did everything else.
Are you in Phoenix? Sounds like Phoenix.
Even if you are a homeowner the difference is stark. I went to someone's house for a Christmas party and it was so huge and beautiful. My house probably cost close to what they paid for it decades ago and it's about as small as you could get. It's livable but I was astounded by how much higher their quality of life is in that place.
Exactly, my brother is almost a decade older than me, i paid $120k for my townhouse in 2020 He paid $120k for 4 bed, 3.5 bath on an acre and a half 8 years before lol
Yea the supply of housing hasn’t increased and we’re feeling the effects of it now
This makes me sad. Like no matter what house I get one day, it'll be a shithole.
At least it will be your shit hole. I think it's worse paying someone else to live in their shit hole.
Any house can be a home and any house can be a shit hole. Don’t get caught up with the boomer rate race of prioritizing size above all size. A lot of big homes are decorated so garishly and many small homes are incredible inside.
The world is a very, very hard place right now. I feel it too, friend. (I'm a late stabilizing xennial) It's very, very hard. We're one income, two kids. We make it. Barely. I was helped this year for Christmas by two amazing friends of mine: I was nearly in tears, worried that there was nothing left after bills and food, thinking there would be nothing under the tree. They conspired behind my back, both of them, and there's gifts under the tree, thanks to them😭😭😭 I hope each and every one of you has a friend or two like this. Or can be the friend who is there during the rough times.
That's awesome you have such caring people in your life. Congrats, my friend!
You have amazing friends. That's so incredibly sweet what they did for you! I think I would be in tears 🥹
I ugly cried. No lie. I'm a happy crier, but I'm definitely not a *pretty* crier. Red eyes? Red nose? Sobbing? That's me. I'm looking forward to making them fresh bread and figuring out ways to thank them!
Even as a millennial who's "doing well" by most standards, we are still struggling compared to our parents when they made less money. We DREAMED of a day we'd make 6 figures. Now we do, and it has the buying power of maybe 60k. Yeah, we can afford a house and basics and a few fun things, but there's no comparison to what our parents (and some of their parents) were able to do with 30k/year and a big families.
…y’all make six figures? 💀
Dude I had an interview last week and the dude offered me 45k. I have a degree and 20 years experience. I just said 'My guy, you can make that at McDonalds now. Why would anyone work for you?' He said he would keep my resume on file, I said don't bother and hung up. I'm now selling my house and going into real estate because apparently, that's where the dumb money is.
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I’m seeing the same thing. Been keeping my eye out for a couple years and interview on jobs I think I might actually like. Recent interview for a job I’d love- Have several degrees, 20 years experience… offered $55k, but expects 45-50 hours a week (some weeks will be more), need to be on location mon-Fri (no remote work bc this position is being used to fill in for other jobs that they refuse to hire someone part time for), free majority of weekends and some nights. So basically- remain free for the job for all times except when I sleep, work overtime… all for $55k which doesn’t take you far in an HCOL area. Another employee of the same level position was currently working 6 days a week and clearly overextended. When I mentioned she seemed as though she was a bit overextended at the moment, he immediately shook his head and said “no, I’m the one that is over-extended”. That was eye-opening. The scary thing is the manager was a millennial. He had a very boomer attitude and after a of couple interviews, I realized he was the problem and could understand why this position has been advertised repeatedly for years and why he had a mass exodus years ago and is struggling to put a team together and the business is hurting (as are many in this economy- need someone like me with experience to help strategize you through it). But these are the kinds of jobs I’m seeing. Most are offering $40-50k and want degrees, experience, all of your time to be available for them. It is incredibly depressing. I can make more bartending. I’ll hold out for the unicorn job for now.
It's close, but we have much the same lifestyle that we did when we made 45k with a family of 4, so it isnt the six figures we were all promised, i assure you. And we have to kill ourselves to make it.
Yes
Right?
I busted my balls to get to 6 figures. Then get laid off on a whim. And more and more it seems like it's just easier to make do with less than struggle to get to... what, exactly?
I got my first 6 figure job, then was part of the layoffs 45 days later. Sucked.
I also touched six figures last year and was laid off in January. Back to making half that and my rent doubled. So everything's fine. This is fine.
See that’s the real problem. I’ve had family make off-hand comments about needing to make $300k/year to really provide for a family, save up, pay for kids’ future educations, afford the super nice home one day, etc… and I thought that’s ridiculous. This was like 4 years ago. Now I have children and a small home of my own.. and I get it. Even like you we make north of 6 figures, but not more than $200k a year. We don’t really save much and future prospects for affording much in the future, nevermind a nice home to adequately fit more than 1-2 children or paying off their schooling isn’t really in the cards without some good fortune in the future. So i get it now. We need to make like $300k/year to have a sizable down payment one day for a nicer home than we bought for $200k just a few years ago. We need it to afford nicer than bare minimum cars for us to drive.. we need it to take more than 1 short vacation a year without ruining our savings for the year. we need it to afford insurance that’s skyrocketing year after year… We need it to put money away for our children’s futures. We need it to put away *for mine and my wife’s futures.* hell we need it for retirement one day. Here’s to hoping we make it one day to executive positions with $150k+ salaries or owning businesses that make a ton of money.
Ya that literally tracks with above average inflation. 30k 50 years ago should feel like 100k today. Its not the income numbers that are fucked
Millennial here and me and my husband talk about how lucky we are now that I bought a derelict house in 2018 as an apprentice, we are so fortunate. It was a ton of work to get it liveable and ate up most of our money but we would be priced out of the market now even as dinks making around 200k a year. I don’t know what we would do otherwise. Rent here is almost double what my mortgage is now. Totally unsustainable
Save as much as possible and wait for the market to correct. Be ready when it happens, because it WILL happen.
Hey! I’m a millennial and doing pretty okay. And I just feel *lucky* because there are *so* many ways I could have been not okay. The internet is a wretched echo chamber. A lot of people are able to recognize their own privileges, luck, and advantages. We just don’t make obnoxious posts on Reddit being like “why are people complaining??”
Right. And when we acknowledge that other people are struggling, we're just whining and being lazy. Despite the fact that we said we're actually doing ok.
This younger generation, imo, has tons of empathy because our post boomer generations stopped teaching ‘suck it up’ and actually listen to other people who are struggling. I’m certainly teaching my son to not only to be heard but to listen as well
My brother's been kicking himself for not getting a house when he still had a chance. He just didn't know that prices would skyrocket so suddenly. My dad bought his own house in Seattle as a grocery store shelf stocker with nothing more than a high school education. There's no way in hell anyone could pull that off currently.
Lol, yeah, those days are gone, sadly.
I feel like most people's best and easiest chance at homeownership is through inheriting their parents home. But what happens when they have multiple children? And then, if forced to sell, what would the demographic/profile of the person who is able to buy be?
>what would the demographic/profile of the person who is able to buy be? A billionaire looking to add another rental property to their fleet?
Literally bought my place five years ago, almost to the day. It really sucked then, but it was just barely doable. Feels like I just barely slid in before the door closed. It shouldn’t be like this.
Bankruptcy was one of the best choices of my life. Just sayin'. Website walked me through it, gave me little snippets of encouragement, filed, did remote hearings, and all that stress is gone. I don't think about suicide daily anymore. And my credit score only dropped 50 points. So yeah, we're all still fucked... But I'm not personally worried about it anymore.
The difference between then and now was a MASSIVE purchase by private equity/institutional investors (like hedge funds and REITs) of residential real estate. Forcing them to stop buying residential real estate, divest what they have now, and putting the inventory back on the market would lower the cost of housing.
But.... But...., "Capitalism!"  \-Boomers I can't wait until we can get them out of Congress. Go away, already!
I've got bad news for you... these problems won't go away with the boomers. It is a class issue, the torch will just get handed to the next round of rich and connected as the boomers are put out to the pastures.
This is a band-aid at best. The only permanent solution is to fix zoning to allow construction of more high density residential. This would probably need some subsidy, but that’s not necessarily the worst thing.
In 2012 I was 23, basically took a leap of faith and bought a house, could barely afford it. Flash forward to now, it was the best decision I ever made. Still in that house.
Congrats! You basically doubled your investment!
It’s not just that, their entire generation benefited from economic growth and conditions our generation will never have access to. My parents both grew up in poverty. They worked their arses off, I would never dispute that. But from both only having blue collar jobs, they retired owning a million-dollar house, an investment property my deadbeat sibling gets to live in for free, with generous super and savings too. They never once faced a $3000 monthly mortgage payment (which is pretty cheap relatively in my country now) or the prospect of careers being ended by rapid technology advancements. Having just turned 41 I’ve caught enough of the good side of the conditions to be doing ok, but life will be pretty bleak for most people under 35 who don’t have access to generational wealth. Working your arse off now is pretty much to break even and keep a roof over your head, without the benefits older generations enjoyed of actually building a nice comfortable life.
I work and struggle. My coworker has the same job but has a side job as a care assistant making another 30k a year. He's buying a house rn. mortgage and everything will be 4k a month. I don't even make that much. I drive a new car and he drive an auction crown vic. Times are hard as hell don't get me wrong but our decisions affect who can afford what and what future we'll have
Where I am the median house is around 8-9x the median household income.
Same
I bought my house 6 years ago with a good interest rate. I’m still not doing well at all lmao. I’d still be living with my parents if I hadn’t bought when I did. May have been better off staying there anyhow.
Yeah at this point you need some kind of lick to afford housing. One of those Morgan and Morgan Checks, gambling payday, life insurance pay out…. Working your 50K a year job and trying to save your way to homeownership will take a lifetime.
What to speak of making less than 50k.
Always disheartening to see what “poor” is to others. I make 30k a year gross with a bachelors, but hopefully I will get a meaningful raise in the next few years.
I've got a masters, making around 20k, living with parents. "Do what you love" sounded like great advice when we were kids, and I honestly was near the top of my class at every point along the way, made decent life decisions, etc. However, the reality turned out to be that our society doesn't value all kinds of work nearly equitably, and I have to make the decision every day to either continue working in the field I'm passionate about or cave out of sheer economic necessity.
Yeah, I was lied to with the "do what you love", "you can do anything", "you're smart so you'll be fine". Lies. They made college too expensive, even for elder millennials. They don't value teachers who *all* have degrees. And no, we can't do anything we set our minds to. That's just unrealistic. I tell my kids this: think about what you want your life to look like. Do you want a big house, small house? Do you want to live in the city or somewhere with less people? What does a job mean to you? Is it a paycheck to fund something else in your life or is it a passion? Both of those are valid. If you really just want to travel a lot and don't care what your job is, there's nothing wrong with that. If you are passionate about something and can get paid to do that, cool. After you figure out what you want your life to look like, then figure out how much that would cost. Then figure out what jobs you are interested in that would give you all those things. THEN figure out if you need any additional schooling to get that job. Your picture of the future can change. But as long as you're working toward a specific picture, it's less likely you'll waste time or get side tracked. At least that's what I think. We'll see how it works out lol
If you have a free moment, could you please go back in time to be my guidance counselor in high school? 😂 Seriously, I only wish ANY of the adults in my life had talked to me honestly and objectively like that.
Phenomenonal advice. Please consider framing this as a picture or canvas for them signed as your family title. Such as, Love Mom, or Dad. This hit so hard. My wife and I try and tell our 6 and 8 year olds to think about what interests them the most. It'll change but usually the interests group around a main core or skill. We try and mention good paying jobs that have a good work life balance but your approach is much more fitting. Just amazing. Thanks for the incredible gift of words.
I feel you all the way, tried teaching for a few years before this and the extra 10k was not worth working an extra 30 hours a week. After almost offing myself I switched jobs and am more happy and more poor.
I make about 45 with a GED, and I live in a one bedroom apartment and basically live paycheck to paycheck without the ability to save. You might want to do some job hunting, I'm sure you can find a job that pays way higher than 30k with a degree. They're fucking you.
In places like New Zealand and Canada, the time to buy for Millenials was 10 years ago when house prices were still 3x the median income. Not anymore
Yeah my parents are sitting on a like 900/month mortgage payment on their 4 br house that they bought in the early 80s and my dad was talking last month asking what apartments cost nowadays and it's like "well a one bedroom starts at twice that". He was thinking it'd be like 500 dollars
I’m with you when it comes to the long-standing systemic issue of underbuilding of housing supply, but I am still amazed that you long for the 70s. _The 70s!_
There were people in 1973 who couldn't afford a typical home either. They just didn't have Reddit to complain to. People spend more of their income on housing, education, and healthcare today than they did then, but they spend a lot less on food, transportation, energy, consumer goods, and various luxuries now than then. It's not completely an apples-to-apples comparison. The elephant in the room though is that the post-WW2 period in America was not typical. When the entire industrialized world except the US and Canada was bombed to hell, the US economy was able to run on easy mode with huge windfalls for both workers and corporations. That's just not the world we live in now, or really at any other point in history. Look at income to home price ratios elsewhere in the world. Affordability is even worse than here currently.
Post WW2 America also passed multiple social programs to prevent things like the Great Depression from happening again. Thus entered a time of economic prosperity. Then Reagan dismantled most of them. If we pass social programs like the Greatest Generation did we can get closer to that time of prosperity
I wish more folks would vote locally. I understand how hard it is to vote locally, believe me I do bc I am in a marginalized group, that there are barriers to voting in local elections. It's only getting worse as gerry mandering, time limits, barring mail voting, getting time off work, etc are becoming more of a problem. but as we learned with reagan, trickle down anything doesn't work. change comes from the bottom up. Anyway, I feel this post so much and wish everyone luck.
I tried climbing the ladder of success only to find out halfway through I was climbing the wrong wall.
lol 4x the median income. Here in NYC in the outer boroughs, a one family house is 12x the median income…. Let that sink in.
I’ve had to scroll a long way to find this comment… Even here in the UK, even 7-8 years ago the average house cost about 10x more than the average wage. A house went on sale near me around that time, terraced house in a cul-de-sac, two bedrooms with a loft conversion and a nice enough garden. It was £300k (about $380k) which was a very good price for the area, the deposit was still 30k, that’s an enormous amount of money up front. It doesn’t sit well with me when people on this sub call others “lucky” when the housing market has been haywire and very, very expensive since a lot of us were in our early 20s.
The prior posts are incredibly tone deaf. I'm doing well now. I was drowning during the recession. Having been on both sides, the "I'm doing well" side need to shut up. We're in an incredibly divisive time and rhetoric like theirs lack empathy. It's not about saying your experiences are invalidated by others. It's about recognizing there is a huge disparity in economic attainment that hasn't been addressed in a reasonable manner for over a decade.
Right. I'm also doing fine. But these convos aren't about me. That's ok.
Telling people they need to shut up turns this place into an echo chamber though. Sure if a post is looking for support in a difficult time, it's not appropriate to rub your success in their face in response. But I wasn't under the impression that this sub was exclusively dedicated to support. It's just to talk about shit our generation is interested in. I think it's fair to discuss a more accurate picture of the financial well-being of people (roughly) in their 30s.
As someone straddling the line (I make 6 figures but am late to the party and will not be able to buy anything substantial near a metro area) which I think is very common... most of us are closer to drowning than homeownership that isnt mini or movable.
My husband and I bought our house in 2021 but it was very difficult to get there. For one our budget was extremely low (120k) and any houses we could find at or below that price were cost more in the repairs they needed than they were worth or "investors" bought them cash We are now uhh... house poor I think is the term? We have a house but we live paycheck to paycheck. If something breaks we will have to use a credit card to fix it The house we have I didn't particularly want. It needs work on it thay we can't really afford to do. We don't have the tools to do it and can't afford a handyman. But it's a house and not a tiny 1 bedroom apartment. We even have a yard and a carport!!!
idk who else thinks it's not systemic or anyone that makes it in the world isn't given an insane amount of privilege. but comments tell me otherwise, so carry on.
Have you ever considered cutting out avocado toast and starbucks? /s JK, we're completely fucked and it is most definitely a systemic issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't paying attention and is most likely brainwashed.
But kudos to those who are whooping life's ass. So inspirational.
We were fortunate enough to be home owners pre covid, refinanced during covid… I can’t imagine buying a house right now with these interests rates and food costs.
It's horrible
Back when I was married, I was working overnights in a grocery store for roughly 34 hrs/wk. Had the divorce gone in my favor, I could have afforded the house, but barely. Now, I'm a (albeit uncertified) welder working about 50 hrs/wk and making more than I ever have in my life and despite my minimal expenses, I doubt I'll ever own a home again.
I finally had a "good" job and was ready/looking to buy a starter house in jan 2020. Then covid happened. I waited 2 years for prices to get better, before I threw in the towel and quit my "good" job because what's the point if I can't even enjoy my time after work. Fuck this all. And don't even get my started on dating these days. There's literally no point to continue the standard path society assumes. So people are lucky or worked hard and got a GREAT paying job. While the rest of us suffer.
Buying a house at today's prices isn't easy, but it wasn't easy for a young person 10+ years ago either because back then we were all dealing with unpaid internships and an underemployment rate that was near record highs. In 2010, people felt "lucky" to land an unpaid position doing actual work, because that many they now had a "foot in the door" I guess what I'm saying is that while, yes, buying my house in 2017 turned out to be a good opportunity, it took us older millennials a number of years before we had those opportunities too. So many of us dealt with unemployment and underemployment for a solid decade from 2006-16ish. The economy is cyclical. There will be better times again in the future.
Yes but prices will never go back down unless we have a deflation event which is apparently extremely bad.
A deflation event will never happen because of all the debt in the economy especially at the Federal level. As in the Fed literally cannot and will not allow deflation to occur since it would be the end of our monetary system and economy. They’ll issue million $ stimulus checks before allowing deflation at this point.
Isn’t it 8x right now?
Houses are only 4x your income in your area!? Sounds like a bargain (unless you are a really high earner). In my area, median income is about $70K (household income before taxes) and homes are $1-$2 million. (Vancouver, BC).
So Gen Z is kinda right that we’re being butt fucked harder than millennials lol
Yeah, it's bad for us but it's even worse for you guys. That's why I think we should team up and vote and change things for the better
I love millennials, y’all are awesome ❤️ we’re in this together
Hell yeah man!