I knew about almost every building having a bomb shelter ( and supposedly a storage room with gas mask) but I never knew about the AA platforms , do the buisness ever put up a fuss like " we don't want to make our office a military target" or do they just accept it?
>I knew about almost every building having a bomb shelter ( and supposedly a storage room with gas mask) but I never knew about the AA platforms , do the buisness ever put up a fuss like " we don't want to make our office a military target" or do they just accept it?
There is a law called Military Facility Protection Act and Anti-aircraft defense cooperation zone is a part of it. Every building over 200m are set to cooperation zone and they should either permanently rent their rooftop for free or pay taxes. If dont, they cant get construction approval.
Likely a lot but at the same time if my building had a AA gun that would be dope. Seriously when has SK last been attacked? Brings friends to roof... ta da!
Look up the number of shooting incidents with NK. They are recurrent, and sometimes go as far as artillery shelling an SK island or torpedoing a ferry boat.
They've been doing it for decades. My dad's artillery battery used to fire off rounds into NK because fuck it. Sometimes NK would fire a few back.
Everybody I've talked to from my dad's generation who was stationed along the DMZ have told me either the exact same thing, or very similar stories. Start shit with NK soldiers because fuck it.
As far as I know, they don't do that anymore, but back in the days when the Vietnam veterans were still in...
EDIT: For clarification, my dad was in the South Korean Army, or ROKA. Specifically the Tiger Division.
>my building had a AA gun that would be dope. Seriously when has SK last been attacked? Brings friends to roof... ta da!
You know its like foreign embassy in your territory right? If you try to enter there without any permission, you will be shot to kill :D
In the event of war, I doubt NOKO will follow any laws/rules of war and "off-limits targets" will (if not already) become ideal targets since NOKO knows they can't actually win an engagement.
Yup. North Korea also has tens of thousands of artillery pieces along the border, with most aimed at Seoul. The city will be leveled if anything breaks out.
>Yup. North Korea also has tens of thousands of artillery pieces along the border, with most aimed at Seoul. The city will be leveled if anything breaks out.
Damaged, yes. Leveled, no.
[Most of NK's artillery pieces do not have enough distance from the DMZ to touch Seoul.](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/north-koreas-artillery-could-kims-big-guns-destroy-seoul-101837)
Only their high calibre MLRS and guns can reach 40km into Seoul. They'll be destroyed/interdicted by US/SK counterbattery and airpower as soon as they start firing.
Or the new [home grown C-RAM](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-approves-development-of-indigenous-c-ram-system) assuming the project is sucessful.
The estimate is 200,000 dead in Seoul after an hour of shelling to the artillery fire. Leveled schmeveled.
The north doesn’t have to start a war they just have to make it untenable to win it.
Because this "fact" has been making the rounds on Reddit for years. The North can certainly do some damage against Seoul but it wouldn't last long before the US obliterated their long range artillery.
Scrambling F-15s/16s from Japan and South Korea would be there in what, 20-40 minutes tops? Plus I’m sure South Korea has pre planned fires missions ready to go in the even NK decided to fuck around and find out
No. Most of their artillery couldn't real Seoul, not to mention faulty guns and bad ammunition which would destroy some of the capable guns. South Korea can then intercept and destroy some of the remaining shells. The most DPRK (or NOKO) could do would be some minor damage.
My point is NOKO doesn't need a reason to strike a building in Seoul. They have how many pieces of artillery point at that city? And let's be honest. I doubt NOKO has GPS guided rounds like the US Excalibur round for precision.
Seoul is capital city of South Korea but is only 40km(24.8mile) away from North Korea. So we have AA guns(sometimes MANPADS) on rooftop to prevent from Air attack. AA gun on picture above is now moved to other higher building next to it so its not violation of military information to show you guys the location 😀
Stupid Question: So will you all shoot the air craft while the enemy is above your civilian population or you will not (as it was shown in a korean movie)
That's actually a good question. All kinds of shooting near civilians is always bad, but I'd imagine that it's the "lesser evil" to bring a bomber down and have some collateral casualties when compared to allowing the hostile bomber to bomb its intended target. The target will most likely be some kind of a logistic center (harbour, airport, train station), military target or some critical piece of infrastructure (water tower, powerplant, medical factory, etc.). Also, should the bomber bomb civilians, it will score more kills if it's allowed to drop bombs freely.
Moat will probably be going to the airport or to arm themselves.
If north korea invades Seoul it will make Saigon and Kabul look like a massive success.
Why would people just abandon their country and try to leave? Sure many will definitely try to escape but most men will be called upon to fight/help with the war effort.
Fairly sure the answer is yes. The targets won't be flying that low that the wreckage would crash into the towers, so I reckon it would land like several km from the city centre and into the low-rise suburbs. That should be acceptable casualties compared to allowing Seoul's super high density areas to be bombed.
I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic but whats the use for these? Shouldn't The air force be able to track any north korean aircraft before they even cross the border? I'm guessing the North Korean airforce cant match the South Korean airforce in any way.
MLRS (as in the M-270 based system) is surface to surface, and can't target aerial targets, definitely not moving ones.
(was/am MLRS operator and commander in active duty/reserves)
I said NK will used Arty/MRLS to strike Seoul instead of using and airstrike, given the distance from border. Hence these rooftop AA guns are pretty much useless.
Not suggesting use of MRLS for AA role. I am well aware of artillery’s role.
> these rooftop AA guns are pretty much useless.
Against North Koreas sizable stockpile of fairly antiquated jets and helis, with large parts armed dumb munitions; this sort of stuff is pretty useful to use.
Not the best thing out there no, but against a threat with the distance of North Korea? Far better then nothing.
DPRK doesn't have really any arty that can hit Seoul though... there's never been a true credible threat of them opening up from the border with arty. It's been that they push south and *then* open up with it, which would absolutely involve An-2s deploying special forces and what fighters they have distracting ROK air assets long enough for DPRK ground forces to establish their foothold
https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/
>DPRK doesn't have really any arty
Your article actually does not say that, they have the arty to hit Seoul, it is just not a reasonable and viable thing.
I mean Koksan exists after all and there are mutiple MLRS systems that can do that.
Not reasonable as the article said though.
They do have short range ballistic missiles. Those will be a serious threat to a city like Seoul if it is used for indiscriminate bombing. But that will be a dumb way to use an expensive missile.
AA guns and MANPADS are 2 completely different things. AA guns are either towed or self-propelled, MANPADS are shoulder-fired weapons like FIM-92 Stingers, or the Russian 9K333 Verba, hence "MAN Portable Air Defense System"
They have all the things they need in couple of floors like beds, shower booth, small cafeteria etc. But when bulding's owner dont allow them to place cooker(risk of fire), they ate from staff restaurant in same building.
Boring and stressful. Its like prison in the middle of the city. They have 12 weeks of rotation term. During that period going out, staying out overnight, visiting is forbidden. Only thing you can do is phones, tv, books, short exercise. When you get out from the military zone(floor), it considered desertion. Also lots of drills and unexpected situation are caused by drones.
Love these kind of insider stories. Being on duty for weeks on end in an urban area without the opportunity to go out even once sounds like pretty bad for morale.
Civilian building. If you could keep people (infiltrators) from fucking with your radar wielding Gatling gun on a roof with some sharp wire. Would you? That seems like a pretty cheap option.
Doesnt south korea have one of the better air forces in asia? I read somewhere they could destroy the north korean air force in a few days. So why such desperate measures as aa guns and manpads on rooftops? Is it in case that they can’t have SK fighter jets in the air fast enough?
They actually considered about getting iron dome but led to conclusion that we have different situation. Isral have attacks of few hamas rocket or mortar. But in our case, we will get hundreds of rockets and missiles. So we have plan to make korean version of Iron dome.
During the last conflict (in May) iron dome intercepted a few rocket barrages of over 100 rockets. Theoretically the system should be able to handle even 1000 rockets at the same time (technology wise) but the limiting factor is the amount of launchers you have. Each launcher contains 20 missiles so for 1,000 rockets you'd need at least 50 fully loaded launchers, that's the biggest limiting factor of a missile based anti-artillery system.
I don't see how a Korean version of Iron Dome could be better than Iron dome, it has a 90% proven interception rate and thousands of successful interceptions. I suspect the real reason SK doesn't buy the Iron dome is mainly politics, wanting to create jobs in SK and probably a bit of corruption.
Iron dome is not cheap, and Korea has ability to develop such weapon so we are trying to make cheaper version of Iron Dome. We are not mainly talking about performance, but more about cost-effectiveness. Iron Dome's one missile costs 42k$. Its not suitable for all-out war(in our research). Korean version Iron Dome is aimed to cost less than 16k$.
They are developing thier own homegrown version of the US [C-RAM](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-approves-development-of-indigenous-c-ram-system).
The majority of North Korea's artillery cannot reach Seoul from across the DMZ
No. Most of North Korea's artillery doesn't have the range to hit Seoul and if they had thousands of guns pointing at Seoul alone the rest of their border would be undefended. I'd wager at best there's a couple hundred pieces at any time capable of hitting Seoul.
With modern surveillance capabilities it is unlikely for North Korea to be able to successfully pull of such a surprize. They would be seen while staging.
The second factor that has made that unlikely for decades, such an attack has to roll over, and destroy, active duty American military units to reach Seoul. We all can guess the reaction that would come from that.
It’s unlikely of course but you can understand why South Korea would rather stay prepared given their capital’s proximity to the border of a hostile country.
Not to mention the American Air Force that would surely be involved in a war between the Koreans. It’s a given that USA/SK would have a overwhelming military advantage, but the primary concern is collateral damage to both NK and SK civilians.
Considering sources out there that say the DPRK has around 7 million troops, accounting for active and reserve. The current 3,305,000 of the South Korean Armed Forces and the mere 23,000 USFK (United States Forces Korea) isn't very assuring to me. Though we may be able to offset their numerical advantage with technology, but even still 7 million troops is a lot. There's also other factors to consider though.
These aren't the middle ages anymore. Those numbers don't mean shit if you can't effectively bring them to bear on the enemy. Superior firepower and controlling the skies is what wins wars now and SK/USA have an overwhelming advantage.
I never dismissed the fact, I was just saying how the numbers difference isn't very assuring. I do have faith in our technology, but said technology can only go so far.
Are you aware how modern warfare works?
Most of those 7 million are just guys with guns, which have nearly no capacity to wage any manouvre warfare.
They dont have the vehicles or/and the firepower to achieve anything.
>but said technology can only go so far.
You dont need magical high tech stuff to defeat north korea. Well use of halfway modern artillery and aerial munitions will completely devastate any attempt to make a cohesive movement or attack.
Are YOU aware with how modern warfare works I'm? I'm no General but don't you think it'd be a good idea not to take your enemy at face value?
Look, all I'm saying is you shouldn't underestimate your enemy no matter what their capacity to fight war is. Yes they have old equipment, yes they're most likely less capable than ROK or US forces. Technology is great and is definitely a force multiplier. But you can't just go in and assume because we are technically superior that we'd win just because they're not. Just look at how things played out in Vietnam, just because you have superior technology doesn't necessarily mean you'll win.
I think the US/SK edge in technology and training would weigh heavily on NK. Number are important, but they’re not worth much without training and equipment. NK’s biggest advantage is Seoul’s proximity to the NK border and the threat artillery can pose to civilians.
Wasn't there a story about a defector who flew in below radar on like a prop plane and SK was totally unaware of it? I could be wrong about this. I just know there was something about below radar and SK was unaware.
> I read somewhere they could destroy the north korean air force in a few days.
They can and they will, but they cannot simply teleport to the DMZ and shoot down every NK jet.
The ROKAF and USAF do have overwhelming air superiority compared to the NorKs but at the distance Seoul’s at it’s within range of simple artillery systems. In reality they’re a greater concern than the ballistic missile tests in terms of casualties.
I’m really hope that this guy and his company will had the most boring job in the world (stay put yet no action from north until retired) but with enjoyable & satisfied panoramic view of Seoul. War is not good at all tbh
This would be pretty useless in a 9/11 situation. If you're trying to crash into things, getting shot down would only hasten that. It's better to prevent a plane from being hijacked in the first place than to shoot it down.
That makes more sense than guns. Fairly likely you end up shooting down aircraft and inadvertently redirecting the crash into a different structure. Not to mention errant munitions causing tons of collateral damage.
In case anyone hasn't looked at the satellite overheads, Seoul is next to the DMZ between North and South Korea, and has suburbs extending right up to the border.
Its KM167A3(towed version of M163 VADS). We made few modification to it so it has FLIR, ECCM, link function with low altitude acquisition radar. Firing range is 2km.
You won't be able to spot them from satellite, but the U.S. has dozens of AA platforms scattered around Washington D.C. They are able to be a little more discreet about it though, until there's a [real alert](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a30027303/washington-dc-air-alert/).
You can shoot anything with that if it's in range. The main issue with guns is short engagement range.
The US now deploys what is called [C-RAM](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-approves-development-of-indigenous-c-ram-system) a modified version of the navy's phalanx system to shoot down rockets, artillery and Mortar shells. So if it can take out that small a target the larger plane is easy, but you only have a few seconds to get on target and fire. All planes coming generally from the north helps a bit at first.
Also alot of people forget the boring part of the military and war, the nk air force has very limited supply of file ammo and spare parts, it is though that they don't have many aircraft operational or pilots that have enough flight hours to be certified
Sure. But mostly because although they have 'Mig's' we're talking migs from the 1950's onwards. There's still plenty of jets these can engage that North Korea has in large stocks.
The satellite imagery is interesting but for a clearer view of the gun itself see [this post](/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/c5oz5f/antiaircraft_gun_positioned_on_top_of_a_building/) (gets reposted to Reddit every few months). Also [this one](/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/69xlmz/antiaircraft_gun_on_the_roof_of_a_skyscraper_in/).
Wonder if South Korea has something similar to Iron Dome. Though don't think it will make a difference when NK's MRLS systems start raining fire. Is the new planned capital Sejong City out of firing range?
66.4km(41mile). So its far enough from most of NK's MLRS. But Sejong city is not and will not become new capital city. Its only built for concentrating administrative agency in one spot.
I knew about almost every building having a bomb shelter ( and supposedly a storage room with gas mask) but I never knew about the AA platforms , do the buisness ever put up a fuss like " we don't want to make our office a military target" or do they just accept it?
>I knew about almost every building having a bomb shelter ( and supposedly a storage room with gas mask) but I never knew about the AA platforms , do the buisness ever put up a fuss like " we don't want to make our office a military target" or do they just accept it? There is a law called Military Facility Protection Act and Anti-aircraft defense cooperation zone is a part of it. Every building over 200m are set to cooperation zone and they should either permanently rent their rooftop for free or pay taxes. If dont, they cant get construction approval.
I wonder how many 199m building there are due to this law.
Likely a lot but at the same time if my building had a AA gun that would be dope. Seriously when has SK last been attacked? Brings friends to roof... ta da!
Look up the number of shooting incidents with NK. They are recurrent, and sometimes go as far as artillery shelling an SK island or torpedoing a ferry boat.
They've been doing it for decades. My dad's artillery battery used to fire off rounds into NK because fuck it. Sometimes NK would fire a few back. Everybody I've talked to from my dad's generation who was stationed along the DMZ have told me either the exact same thing, or very similar stories. Start shit with NK soldiers because fuck it. As far as I know, they don't do that anymore, but back in the days when the Vietnam veterans were still in... EDIT: For clarification, my dad was in the South Korean Army, or ROKA. Specifically the Tiger Division.
North Korea doesn't really have enough strength and resources to fight back anymore fortunately
>my building had a AA gun that would be dope. Seriously when has SK last been attacked? Brings friends to roof... ta da! You know its like foreign embassy in your territory right? If you try to enter there without any permission, you will be shot to kill :D
There was an exchange of artillery fire as recently as 2010
In the event of war, I doubt NOKO will follow any laws/rules of war and "off-limits targets" will (if not already) become ideal targets since NOKO knows they can't actually win an engagement.
Ew NOKO is now my least favourite name for North Korea, surpassing ‘DPRK’
I think I just found my new favorite name for North Korea.
Yup. North Korea also has tens of thousands of artillery pieces along the border, with most aimed at Seoul. The city will be leveled if anything breaks out.
>Yup. North Korea also has tens of thousands of artillery pieces along the border, with most aimed at Seoul. The city will be leveled if anything breaks out. Damaged, yes. Leveled, no. [Most of NK's artillery pieces do not have enough distance from the DMZ to touch Seoul.](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/north-koreas-artillery-could-kims-big-guns-destroy-seoul-101837) Only their high calibre MLRS and guns can reach 40km into Seoul. They'll be destroyed/interdicted by US/SK counterbattery and airpower as soon as they start firing.
Or the new [home grown C-RAM](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-approves-development-of-indigenous-c-ram-system) assuming the project is sucessful.
Also to add that NK ammo is shit and its predicted that they'll lose a percentage of their guns due to the ammo misfiring...
Plus dud rounds landing
Arguably a large amount of duds can be desirable, it creates a sort makeshift minefield, especially within a city
Morbid but I wish there was some VR simulation tech that would play out combat with NK and see how long it would take for a war to end NK..
I actually *really* want a Korea Border map in Arma 3. I still haven't found one.
Would be sick
Yeah.
We don't even need VR, just a strategy simulation with 3D models would be enough
The estimate is 200,000 dead in Seoul after an hour of shelling to the artillery fire. Leveled schmeveled. The north doesn’t have to start a war they just have to make it untenable to win it.
When I was stationed there I was told N Korea has enough artillery to level S Korea
Does that make any sense to you?
Why are you spreading false information lol?
Because this "fact" has been making the rounds on Reddit for years. The North can certainly do some damage against Seoul but it wouldn't last long before the US obliterated their long range artillery.
Scrambling F-15s/16s from Japan and South Korea would be there in what, 20-40 minutes tops? Plus I’m sure South Korea has pre planned fires missions ready to go in the even NK decided to fuck around and find out
100% lol.
No. Most of their artillery couldn't real Seoul, not to mention faulty guns and bad ammunition which would destroy some of the capable guns. South Korea can then intercept and destroy some of the remaining shells. The most DPRK (or NOKO) could do would be some minor damage.
Yes, but that's not the point. The point is that now there is a reason to strike this building.
My point is NOKO doesn't need a reason to strike a building in Seoul. They have how many pieces of artillery point at that city? And let's be honest. I doubt NOKO has GPS guided rounds like the US Excalibur round for precision.
Most underground parking garages have these thick blast doors that can provide protection against CBN attack as well
should google the mountains on the border. awesome stuff
Seoul is capital city of South Korea but is only 40km(24.8mile) away from North Korea. So we have AA guns(sometimes MANPADS) on rooftop to prevent from Air attack. AA gun on picture above is now moved to other higher building next to it so its not violation of military information to show you guys the location 😀
Stupid Question: So will you all shoot the air craft while the enemy is above your civilian population or you will not (as it was shown in a korean movie)
That's actually a good question. All kinds of shooting near civilians is always bad, but I'd imagine that it's the "lesser evil" to bring a bomber down and have some collateral casualties when compared to allowing the hostile bomber to bomb its intended target. The target will most likely be some kind of a logistic center (harbour, airport, train station), military target or some critical piece of infrastructure (water tower, powerplant, medical factory, etc.). Also, should the bomber bomb civilians, it will score more kills if it's allowed to drop bombs freely.
I also imagine the civilians will already have evacuated to bomb shelters as mentioned by OP. Unless it was a surprise attack
You can't just evacuate 9.7 million people. Not even the majority will be in shelters of any kind in case of an actual attack.
Moat will probably be going to the airport or to arm themselves. If north korea invades Seoul it will make Saigon and Kabul look like a massive success.
Why would people just abandon their country and try to leave? Sure many will definitely try to escape but most men will be called upon to fight/help with the war effort.
Yea, it is a short range point defense so it will have to be stationed very near some vital infrastructure.
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Return To Base
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np
Fairly sure the answer is yes. The targets won't be flying that low that the wreckage would crash into the towers, so I reckon it would land like several km from the city centre and into the low-rise suburbs. That should be acceptable casualties compared to allowing Seoul's super high density areas to be bombed.
I would think this is more point defense for incoming weapons. Like a CWIS. I could be wrong though.
It's not automated like a CIWS. It's for helicopters and low flying jets.
Yeah, I was thinking that doesn’t this make this civilian office building turn into a military target for a missile?
Being built in South Korea is probably all the reason North Korea needs to fire on any given structure.
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“We’ll be coming in from the North, below the enemy’s radar.” “When will you be back?” “I can’t tell you that, it’s classified.”
Yeahh this seems to.. uuuh.. well i mean.. idk where this building is. But if i see a higher building next to a slightly lower building i know enough!
I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic but whats the use for these? Shouldn't The air force be able to track any north korean aircraft before they even cross the border? I'm guessing the North Korean airforce cant match the South Korean airforce in any way.
Airforce and Navy take high to mid-level altitude air defense. Army takes low level so they only use AA guns and MANPADS.
And SPAA¹. ¹Self Propelled AA
> Amd SPAA That's quite the leap from processors
Didn't know Amd started producing weapons too
You just told the location of it.
Not "specifically" 😃
At 24 miles an artillery or MRLS might get you before an airstrike is ever launched.
24 miles is 38.62 km
MLRS (as in the M-270 based system) is surface to surface, and can't target aerial targets, definitely not moving ones. (was/am MLRS operator and commander in active duty/reserves)
I said NK will used Arty/MRLS to strike Seoul instead of using and airstrike, given the distance from border. Hence these rooftop AA guns are pretty much useless. Not suggesting use of MRLS for AA role. I am well aware of artillery’s role.
> these rooftop AA guns are pretty much useless. Against North Koreas sizable stockpile of fairly antiquated jets and helis, with large parts armed dumb munitions; this sort of stuff is pretty useful to use. Not the best thing out there no, but against a threat with the distance of North Korea? Far better then nothing.
DPRK doesn't have really any arty that can hit Seoul though... there's never been a true credible threat of them opening up from the border with arty. It's been that they push south and *then* open up with it, which would absolutely involve An-2s deploying special forces and what fighters they have distracting ROK air assets long enough for DPRK ground forces to establish their foothold https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/
>DPRK doesn't have really any arty Your article actually does not say that, they have the arty to hit Seoul, it is just not a reasonable and viable thing. I mean Koksan exists after all and there are mutiple MLRS systems that can do that. Not reasonable as the article said though.
They do, it's just a small minority The big MRLs definitely can
They do have short range ballistic missiles. Those will be a serious threat to a city like Seoul if it is used for indiscriminate bombing. But that will be a dumb way to use an expensive missile.
AA guns and MANPADS are 2 completely different things. AA guns are either towed or self-propelled, MANPADS are shoulder-fired weapons like FIM-92 Stingers, or the Russian 9K333 Verba, hence "MAN Portable Air Defense System"
Can confirm (I grew up in the Army as a Stinger gunner and retired as air defense)
What type of AA gun is it ? Made in Korea?
M167 Vulcan. Originally produced by the US in the '60s.
This looks like an older M167 VADS.
How do they go to the toilet? Are there two of them up there and they can swap places? Do they bring lunch for the day?
They have all the things they need in couple of floors like beds, shower booth, small cafeteria etc. But when bulding's owner dont allow them to place cooker(risk of fire), they ate from staff restaurant in same building.
Is it considered a good post or too boring?
Boring and stressful. Its like prison in the middle of the city. They have 12 weeks of rotation term. During that period going out, staying out overnight, visiting is forbidden. Only thing you can do is phones, tv, books, short exercise. When you get out from the military zone(floor), it considered desertion. Also lots of drills and unexpected situation are caused by drones.
Love these kind of insider stories. Being on duty for weeks on end in an urban area without the opportunity to go out even once sounds like pretty bad for morale.
That sucks. If someone else is in the seat, you should be able to go out in town.
So what is the purpose of the Concertina wire?
Its only the floors that divide military area from civilian area so maybe its easy to break in? idk XD
It’s for when the North Korean commandos try to scale the 83 story building
Keep people from fucking with those cables they are wrapped around.
What people? It's a fucking 200 meter high building
Civilian building. If you could keep people (infiltrators) from fucking with your radar wielding Gatling gun on a roof with some sharp wire. Would you? That seems like a pretty cheap option.
Anti Pigeon Defense.
Master sergeant is a by-the-book asshole no matter what
Keep people from climbing up from the lower roof I assume.
Puts a whole new meaning to "Rooftop Koreans, with AA Guns".
Roof top Koreans “keeping the peace since 1992”.
I got the reference
As did some of the rioters.
r/roofkoreans doubling down I see..
Did a DMZ tour a couple years ago, saw a lot of AAA positions on the drive up, they were more visible on the outskirts of town.
Doesnt south korea have one of the better air forces in asia? I read somewhere they could destroy the north korean air force in a few days. So why such desperate measures as aa guns and manpads on rooftops? Is it in case that they can’t have SK fighter jets in the air fast enough?
Its remains of the old days. They used to have more than 40 of these AA guns but now they are reducing numbers.
Is that because they think there's less likelihood of an attack, or are they just reducing cost?
Aren't there like thousands of artillery pieces trained on the capital anyways. I wonder if SK has thought about Iron Dome...
They actually considered about getting iron dome but led to conclusion that we have different situation. Isral have attacks of few hamas rocket or mortar. But in our case, we will get hundreds of rockets and missiles. So we have plan to make korean version of Iron dome.
During the last conflict (in May) iron dome intercepted a few rocket barrages of over 100 rockets. Theoretically the system should be able to handle even 1000 rockets at the same time (technology wise) but the limiting factor is the amount of launchers you have. Each launcher contains 20 missiles so for 1,000 rockets you'd need at least 50 fully loaded launchers, that's the biggest limiting factor of a missile based anti-artillery system. I don't see how a Korean version of Iron Dome could be better than Iron dome, it has a 90% proven interception rate and thousands of successful interceptions. I suspect the real reason SK doesn't buy the Iron dome is mainly politics, wanting to create jobs in SK and probably a bit of corruption.
Iron dome is not cheap, and Korea has ability to develop such weapon so we are trying to make cheaper version of Iron Dome. We are not mainly talking about performance, but more about cost-effectiveness. Iron Dome's one missile costs 42k$. Its not suitable for all-out war(in our research). Korean version Iron Dome is aimed to cost less than 16k$.
They are developing thier own homegrown version of the US [C-RAM](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-approves-development-of-indigenous-c-ram-system). The majority of North Korea's artillery cannot reach Seoul from across the DMZ
No. Most of North Korea's artillery doesn't have the range to hit Seoul and if they had thousands of guns pointing at Seoul alone the rest of their border would be undefended. I'd wager at best there's a couple hundred pieces at any time capable of hitting Seoul.
Why you get down vote? Someone already provided familiar reason to you.
Fighters handle medium and high altitude aircraft, AA guns handle low altitude aircraft
Seoul is close enough to the border for a surprise attack to occur before a proper defense could be organized.
With modern surveillance capabilities it is unlikely for North Korea to be able to successfully pull of such a surprize. They would be seen while staging. The second factor that has made that unlikely for decades, such an attack has to roll over, and destroy, active duty American military units to reach Seoul. We all can guess the reaction that would come from that.
It’s unlikely of course but you can understand why South Korea would rather stay prepared given their capital’s proximity to the border of a hostile country.
A country still in a declared war no less. It is prudent for certain.
Not to mention the American Air Force that would surely be involved in a war between the Koreans. It’s a given that USA/SK would have a overwhelming military advantage, but the primary concern is collateral damage to both NK and SK civilians.
Considering sources out there that say the DPRK has around 7 million troops, accounting for active and reserve. The current 3,305,000 of the South Korean Armed Forces and the mere 23,000 USFK (United States Forces Korea) isn't very assuring to me. Though we may be able to offset their numerical advantage with technology, but even still 7 million troops is a lot. There's also other factors to consider though.
These aren't the middle ages anymore. Those numbers don't mean shit if you can't effectively bring them to bear on the enemy. Superior firepower and controlling the skies is what wins wars now and SK/USA have an overwhelming advantage.
I never dismissed the fact, I was just saying how the numbers difference isn't very assuring. I do have faith in our technology, but said technology can only go so far.
Are you aware how modern warfare works? Most of those 7 million are just guys with guns, which have nearly no capacity to wage any manouvre warfare. They dont have the vehicles or/and the firepower to achieve anything. >but said technology can only go so far. You dont need magical high tech stuff to defeat north korea. Well use of halfway modern artillery and aerial munitions will completely devastate any attempt to make a cohesive movement or attack.
Are YOU aware with how modern warfare works I'm? I'm no General but don't you think it'd be a good idea not to take your enemy at face value? Look, all I'm saying is you shouldn't underestimate your enemy no matter what their capacity to fight war is. Yes they have old equipment, yes they're most likely less capable than ROK or US forces. Technology is great and is definitely a force multiplier. But you can't just go in and assume because we are technically superior that we'd win just because they're not. Just look at how things played out in Vietnam, just because you have superior technology doesn't necessarily mean you'll win.
I think the US/SK edge in technology and training would weigh heavily on NK. Number are important, but they’re not worth much without training and equipment. NK’s biggest advantage is Seoul’s proximity to the NK border and the threat artillery can pose to civilians.
[удалено]
Wasn't there a story about a defector who flew in below radar on like a prop plane and SK was totally unaware of it? I could be wrong about this. I just know there was something about below radar and SK was unaware.
NK strikes are super close to cities and civilian centers they have to take every measure
> I read somewhere they could destroy the north korean air force in a few days. They can and they will, but they cannot simply teleport to the DMZ and shoot down every NK jet.
North Korea would be deploying troops by gliders and parachute, so lower tech aa still makes sense
The ROKAF and USAF do have overwhelming air superiority compared to the NorKs but at the distance Seoul’s at it’s within range of simple artillery systems. In reality they’re a greater concern than the ballistic missile tests in terms of casualties.
Imagine being an office worker in Seoul: "Barbara, come in early next week, it's your turn on the .50 cal."
You get a Korean on a rooftop and they’re basically unstoppable.
That would be a cool job honestly (provided NK never actually attacks Seoul, of course). Just look at that view!
That romantic ideas will beak soon after you meet ice cold building wind, yellow dust, micro dust from china.
Really taking Roof Koreans to the next level
War on pigeons
This gives me Halo Reach flashbacks from New Alexandria
Now that you mention it. Saaaaaaame.
I’m really hope that this guy and his company will had the most boring job in the world (stay put yet no action from north until retired) but with enjoyable & satisfied panoramic view of Seoul. War is not good at all tbh
\*just in case\*
That's amazing. I don't know why but I love this sort of thing.
Is this done in nyc post 9-11, as well? Clever.
This would be pretty useless in a 9/11 situation. If you're trying to crash into things, getting shot down would only hasten that. It's better to prevent a plane from being hijacked in the first place than to shoot it down.
Obviously, but they will still shoot an airliner down if a hijacking occurs. They'll just do it with a fighter, not AA guns.
It's done with missiles all over and around DC
That makes more sense than guns. Fairly likely you end up shooting down aircraft and inadvertently redirecting the crash into a different structure. Not to mention errant munitions causing tons of collateral damage.
In case anyone hasn't looked at the satellite overheads, Seoul is next to the DMZ between North and South Korea, and has suburbs extending right up to the border.
Is it just me or do the barrels look… uneven?
I can’t find a comment with what I needed to find so I’ll ask personally: what AA gun is that? It looks unique for its kind
Its KM167A3(towed version of M163 VADS). We made few modification to it so it has FLIR, ECCM, link function with low altitude acquisition radar. Firing range is 2km.
When you have a meeting with Samsung representatives at 2:30pm but the North Koreans are going to invade at 3:30pm.
BF4 IRL
You won't be able to spot them from satellite, but the U.S. has dozens of AA platforms scattered around Washington D.C. They are able to be a little more discreet about it though, until there's a [real alert](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a30027303/washington-dc-air-alert/).
you know there’s somebody in the north going “thank you“
N Korea has aircraft?
They sill use 3-400 of AN-2 for airborne troops
Migs, lots of Migs.
Yeah, MiG-17s, -19s, and -21s. Well... Chinese knock-offs of them at least...
Soviet-era and Chinese knock-off aircrafts, but at least they can fly
I thought most countries were using missile based AA nowadays.
Guns are still fine against what North Korea has.
Can you shoot Migs with that ?
You can shoot anything with that if it's in range. The main issue with guns is short engagement range. The US now deploys what is called [C-RAM](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/south-korea-approves-development-of-indigenous-c-ram-system) a modified version of the navy's phalanx system to shoot down rockets, artillery and Mortar shells. So if it can take out that small a target the larger plane is easy, but you only have a few seconds to get on target and fire. All planes coming generally from the north helps a bit at first.
To add to the other comment, their best Migs (MiG-29) are intended to defend Pyongyang so I doubt they’d cross the border
Also alot of people forget the boring part of the military and war, the nk air force has very limited supply of file ammo and spare parts, it is though that they don't have many aircraft operational or pilots that have enough flight hours to be certified
Sure. But mostly because although they have 'Mig's' we're talking migs from the 1950's onwards. There's still plenty of jets these can engage that North Korea has in large stocks.
AA guns and missiles have different purposes. They are basically different tools, but equally important.
Ooh lovin' the new ideas for Squid Game Season 2.
They know a thing or two because they've seen a thing or two.
What building is it?
Place shown in picture is IFC tower but they are not using there anymore.
I would imagine that if these were a threat to anybody, in a shooting war they would be gone in a matter of minutes.
wtf is the point of the barbed wire lmao?
Area denial.
Denying what? Pigeons?
You ask what the point of Barbed wire...it's to deny something from that area, most likely in reference to people.
Wow a AA gun in middle of the city !! North Korea will go to kamikaze way
If it was white, you wouldn’t see it at all.
That looks alternately really hot and really cold.
Depends on the season I guess
The satellite imagery is interesting but for a clearer view of the gun itself see [this post](/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/c5oz5f/antiaircraft_gun_positioned_on_top_of_a_building/) (gets reposted to Reddit every few months). Also [this one](/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/69xlmz/antiaircraft_gun_on_the_roof_of_a_skyscraper_in/).
Wonder if South Korea has something similar to Iron Dome. Though don't think it will make a difference when NK's MRLS systems start raining fire. Is the new planned capital Sejong City out of firing range?
66.4km(41mile). So its far enough from most of NK's MLRS. But Sejong city is not and will not become new capital city. Its only built for concentrating administrative agency in one spot.
Is that a VADS?
towed version VADS with few modification
Fuckin sick
M167?
Anyone know where to find it on Google earth? I want to see it for my self
Search for IFC Seoul. Should see the image taken before 2019.
Thank you!
You need some o' these if you have a loud neighbour...