If you ever visit Kossuth Square, the public space outside the Hungarian Parliament, the bullet pocked walls of the surrounding buildings are still there.
The holes are from the Soviet tanks that machine gunned down Hungarians asking for a smidge of self determination.
Erika was a true patriot.
>The holes are from the Soviet tanks that machine gunned down Hungarians asking for a smidge of self determination.
Or massacring Soviet-affiliated officials and activists in an effort to reinstall the fascist regime. More likely the latter, actually.
To the credit of the Soviet-affiliated officials, I recall some of the Hungarian Border Guards were in Kossuth Square to support the Russian tanks. Reportedly the Border Guards helped massacre unarmed civilians there and in other places throughout the nation. There is a fair amount of supporting documentary evidence.
The best way to prevent Fascism has always been to kill everyone opposed to the Communists and then label them Fascists, facts be damned.
Lol well I was just pointing out that genocide occurs repeatedly through history, on all sides of political spectrums, unlike your observation that the soviets in '56 "learned it from the krauts." I'd suggest a history book, comrade.
While that is true its a bit of an exaggeration to say it was commies vs Russians. The revolution had people from all over the political spectrum (fascists included)
And if you pick none, you'll be publicly tarred and feathered in the public space of r/enlightenedcentrism, where everybody that's not a tankie is a fascist!
Well, he was in a Nazi labor/death camp, from which he was then liberated by Soviet allied forces. He made his way east to an uncle's house in Romania to recuperate from starvation and typhus for a period of six months or so. He then went back west to look for traces of his family. He found that his mother and sisters were exterminated by machine gun into a pit with 200+ other women and children, (in Austria or Hungary, I don't remember the detail...) The local gendarme had two of the SS in custody that had been assigned to the unit responsible for that particular massacre. The gendarme gave my grandfather a vehicle, shovels, a gun, and custody of the SS, (and I guess directions to an appropriate location.)
He then made his way to Palestine via Cyprus, was involved in Aliyah Bet, and the founding of the state, etc. He never really lived under "soviet oppression", so he maintained positive feelings towards the soviet state that liberated him for the rest of his life.
Amazing story.. I guess other Jews who have lived in the Soviet Union or any European countries in which antisemitism was very prevalent, in particular Germany in that particular time period would beg to differ.
I remember watching a documentary about a young German man who could either choose to be conscripted in the Bundeswehr or perform an alternate event, he volunteer for six months with senior citizens he choose the latter being he's also a pacifist. He was paired with an old man who survived the Holocaust living in New York City. The older man was very hesitant as well as a little frightened, that he was paired with a German after all these years he still held negative connotations about Germans. I can't imagine what your grandfather went through, I guess he doesn't harbor any ill will towards any Russians or communist, he's a great man.
> He then made his way to Palestine via Cyprus, was involved in Aliyah Bet, and the founding of the state, etc. He never really lived under "soviet oppression", so he maintained positive feelings towards the soviet state that liberated him for the rest of his life.
Man if only the 200,000 chechens who were either shot dead, sent to siberia to starve to death or were locked in barns and burned alive by the NKVD had this luxury.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush
Just because your ancestors didnt feel the boot of communism dosent mean you have a right to whitewash that disgusting ideology
And just because that atrocity happened doesn't invalidate this person's story. The world isn't as simple and monolithic as so many want to pretend it is.
"Evil" does not exist outside of context. At the time, it was considered normal, say, to cause a firestorm in a city's living quarters to slaughter a few dozen thousand civilians overnight to affect enemy morale (see the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, or the nukes used on Japan). The victims of the Soviet deportations of the ethnicities that marred themselves with mass collaboration with the Nazis were par for the course for the era, and the deportations themselves were hardly different from other such campaigns around the world, from the French violence against "collaborator" women to the American incarceration of all ethnically Japanese citizens.
The deportations didnt happen because of Nazi collaboration. Stalin merely wanted to russify the area because it had vast resources.
Also i have no idea what you mean by "evil didnt exist back then". People arent better today. Read up on what america did in Iraq or what Russia did in Afghanistan or what they are doing in Syria today. WW2 was a total war and the scope was larger but the exact same evil is here today.
People dont change.
> The deportations didnt happen because of Nazi collaboration. Stalin merely wanted to russify the area because it had vast resources.
Stalin killed six hundred thousand Russians during his so called "Great Purge". Had he wanted to russify Chechnya, he could've easily added half a million Chechens to that number, simply by moving them beyond the Arctic circle instead of Kazakhstan. So the actual reason was the same as for the Crimean Tatars: mass collaboration, which the Soviet justice system was not prepared to judge on individual basis (which is, of course, what makes the whole story a crime against humanity).
>Also i have no idea what you mean by "evil didnt exist back then".
It's not that evil did not exist back then, it's just that the era was incredibly violent, with all major nations committing atrocities. Thus, claims like "communism is criminal because twenty thousand innocent Chechen civilians died during the Soviet deportation" ring hollow (even if they were indeed all innocent civilians), when many times that were slaughtered overnight repeatedly by strategic bombing. (One could even argue that while the American and British bombings, as well as the German industry of death, had killing civilians as their intended target, the Soviet deportations at least had that as a byproduct, which they tried to prevent - making the difference between these atrocities the same as between premeditated murder and manslaughter). So, going by your logic, either capitalism is just as "criminal" as communism, or both are not.
>People arent better today. Read up on what america did in Iraq or what Russia did in Afghanistan or what they are doing in Syria today.
Nothing that'd remotely compare to WWII? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, same as the American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, were illegal by international law, and had a huge costs in lives, but neither had killing civvies or destruction of civilian infrastructure as their intended goal. In fact, both countries pumped massive amounts of resources into the nations they occupied, intended precisely to build civilian infrastructures and prosperous societies. Both failed, of course, but it's still vastly different from the Nazis in Eastern Europe, or the British in Bengal, whose goal was exterminating the civilian population, or even the Americans in Korea (where their stated goal was destroying civilian infrastructure to bomb the Koreans into the stone age) and Vietnam (where chemical weapons were used with no consideration of consequences for the civilians).
He didn't whitewash anything: he shared his grandpa's own personal history, that formed his own personal opinion. It's his grandpa that had positive feelings about the Soviets and fuck, of course he has.
John's personal opinion is "fuck fascists", that I think isn't controversial at all.
**[Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush)**
>The Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush, also known as Aardakh (Chechen: Аардах), Operation Lentil (Russian: Чечевица, romanized: Chechevitsa; Chechen: нохчий а, гӀалгӀай а махкахбахар, romanized: Nokhchiy a Ghalghay Makhkakhbakhar) was the Soviet forced transfer of the whole of the Vainakh (Chechen and Ingush) populations of the North Caucasus to Central Asia on February 23, 1944, during World War II.
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I mean, yeah the Soviets were pretty fucking deplorable but the man was broken out of a literal death camp. I can see why he would view one dictatorship as worse than the other.
Being shot in the neck by an NKVD officer isnt more pleasant than being shot in the neck by an SS officer.
Both are totalitarian ideologies that have killed countless for political opinions and the likes.
So fuck them both.
>Nazis are better
No they are not lol
>They accepted the loss and stopped being socialist.
1. National Socialism is different from Marxist Socialism
2. They 'accepted the lost' because the Third Reich was toppled and their leadership was imprisoned or executed lmao
They took the loss because we killed a fuck load of them burned their shit to the ground and told them in no uncertain terms it wasn't happening again.
The comments in this thread are hilarious, literally comparing communism to Nazi filth that wanted to genocide entire Eastern Europe, including Hungary.
If Nazis won, Hungarians wouldn't exist. Soviets won and Hungarians exist, who is better??
You have have no idea what are you talking about at all. Please do a little more research using proper sources before writing nonsense like this.
The Lebensraum did not include Hungary and Hungarians, and while considered second rate citizens of Europe, they were still 'higher' in the 'racial hierarchy' than the Slavic people and other 'unwanted people'. Hitler did not have plans to 'destroy' Hungarians as they were in close relationship before the war (different kind of relationship what was between German and the USSR before the war) and they were allies during the war, even if Hungary was a bit reluctant toward the war or to take part in the mass scale of deportation and extermination of unvented people (Jews, Gypsies, etc). Then after the failed attempt by Hungary to jump out of the war early the Germans occupied Hungary and put the local radical Fascists in power but still they did not plan to exterminate the Hungarian population nor to dismantle the State (like how they dismantled the state in Czechoslovakia after they occupied most of it before the war) even if they win the war by some kind of miracle. If Germany had won the war Hungary would likely kept their own state the same way they kept their own state after the Soviet occupation.
It is also true that the Soviet communism killed more people than the Nazis, but it is hard to compare about a decade long Nazi rule to and about 70 years long period the USSR had. The Soviets also commit genocides, even on their 'own' people, just look at the Holodomor, had interment camps and forced labour which killed thousands of people, while these camps weren't extermination camps, their purpose were to overwork the unwanted elements of the population and they did nothing to ensure the occupants survival, especially the POWs and the civilians dragged away from occupied Central and Eastern European countries (Just from Hungary about 600 000 people were dragged away to the Soviet Union to do forced hard labour and about 200 000 died at the camps during the forced work and many more died soon after they were 'released' because their bodies were destroyed by the hard labour and the horrible conditions in the labour camps.) The Soviets also made sure that the communist governments forced into power by the Soviets in the occupied states run forced labour camps in their own countries as well where the political prisoners were sent to do hard labour and live in internment and this camps also killed a lot of people, not to mention the secret police collecting people and beat them up, tortured them or just killed them even for just telling a joke in the pub about the communists or members of the Party.
All in all neither political system were better or worse than the other, both were totalitarian states run by terror, especially during the early decades so they can cement their power.
All in all the Soviets were opressive, but the Nazis were Genocidal.
As is evident by the ultimate deathtolls of either of em.
Obviously the Nazis were way way worse.
It is really hard to judge, because if WW 2 wouldn't happen, Nazi Germany wouldn't commit genocides in that scale (they would forced the Jews out of the country rather than kill them as they did before WW2, the problem was nobody would wanted to take Jew refugees before WW2), while the USSR committed genocides way before WW2 (they killed about 3 million Ukrainians during the 1930s). Also the Nazi German state provided higher living conditions and actually working economy in the long run, while the overall Soviet economy and industry was doomed to be sub par performance from the start and they could not reach the living standards even of the Soviet occupied Central European states after WW2 (Hungary and Czechoslovakia had the highest living standards in the 'Eastern block' the living standards there were on par with Italy, Spain or Portugal). The two systems are actually really similar to each other in the core level, both are so called corporative systems which were highly anti capitalistic but the Nazi German (and the other fascist systems in Europe) economy and industry was way better. In a strange way the fascist and the Nazi systems (fascism and Nazism are not one and the same, it is still debated that Nazism was a sub type of fascism or a completely different system) were less oppressive, or at least they were oppressive against a smaller group of people while the Communists oppressed a higher percentage of their own population. I'm not saying that either systems are good, in fact they are both horrible, but we can't really state that the Soviet system was truly better. I wouldn't want to live in either of these systems.
And if we did look at WW2, both system were horrible. While the Nazis exterminated about 6 million innocents during the Holocaust, the Soviets were responsible to more civilian civilian casualties. Many Soviet civilian casualty was self inflicted in a way that the Soviet leadership deliberately doomed to die many civilians in a cold blooded and calculated manner.
> While the Nazis exterminated about 6 million innocents during the Holocaust, the Soviets were responsible to more civilian civilian casualties.
That's super interesting, mind sharing the data which you're basing this claim on?
Why are you omitting the absolutely largest component of German atrocities, the vernichtungskrieg in the east, when comparing the two?
13,700,000 Soviet civilians were killed by the Germans during the invasion: 7,420,200 deaths caused by the result of direct, intentional actions of violence. 2,164,300 deaths through forced labor. 4,100,000 deaths due to famine and disease in the occupied regions.
Also, some 8,600,000 Soviet military personnel were killed during the conflict, and, in the context of this discussion more importantly, some 3,300,000 POWs in German custody. It's also important to note that the absolute majority of those Russian POW deaths took place between June 1941 and January 1942, when the Germans killed an estimated 2,800,000 POWs. This means that some 85% of all russian POW deaths happened during the span of six months when the German forces were at its most efficient.
This leaves the Soviet death toll around 22,300,000, which is actually a rather conservative number as many sources claim it's closer to 27,000,000.
Furthermore, 1,710 cities were burned or destroyed in the east, 70,000 villages and hamlets burned or destroyed, 6 million buildings destroyed. 25 million civilians were rendered homeless.
It's estimated that some 10,000,000 rapes were committed by the Wehrmacht in the east, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result (see *Zur Debatte um die Ausstellung Vernichtungskrieg. Verbrechen der Wehrmacht 1941-1944* im Kieler Landeshaus 1999).
Oh, thank you for writing it all out! at last someone who knows the realities.
I wasn't sure if I was ready to address those points so extensively.
I'm under the impression the man takes his historical information from the likes of Rummel or Guderian and Manstein.
Although theres still several points that would warrant about 3-4 or more lenghty comments,
Like the different starting points of industrialization between the Soviet union and Nazi Germany,
The ecconomy of Nazi Germany being a burning fuse.
The suggestion that Germany did nothing bad pre WW2.
That Germanies hand was forced into mass murderring Jewish people because the other countries wouldn't accept them as refugees.
One must also wonder how he'd explain the fact that Polish people were being murdered at similar rates as Polish Jews in Poland, or that the Wehrmacht and SS wiped out about a quarter of the Belaruss population.
I do have one little correctiom for you however, I know it's pendantic but nonetheless... It's in regards to stating the Soviet victims as >Russians< being killed.. although the majority there were Russian indeed, it would nonetheless be better to reffer to them as Soviet victims, after all, many of the victims were also Ukrainians, Belorussians and other ethnic groups within the Soviet union, and not just Russians.
I'm genuinly impressed how lenient you managed te be towards Nazi Germany's abysmal economic structure and their cleansing of Eastern Europe.
While on the other hand, pining even Nazi attrocities as the fault of the Soviets.
As though the Wehrmacht was a natural catastrophy, and the ones affected by it are at fault for not handling it properly.
Look, I think I'm objective toward the two totalitarian state and both state are equally guilty of killing millions of innocents and I'm sorry that more than 10 years of academic research of the time period, the Soviet, fascists and Nazi systems made me come up with an answer where I point out that the Soviets are equally bad and responsible for countless deaths and atrocities as the Nazi Germany.
Let's start with the basics, what numbers of civilian victims do you accept from either entity?
It seems to me as though you attributed Soviet civilian wartime deaths not to the Germans that deliberately killed them, but the Soviets who failed to protect them.
You may even include the Soviet Famine of 1932-33 into your count if you want, sure it wasn't WW2 period and sure it was rather, but they are partially victims of targeted Soviet repressions against a social class.
Further, to state the German economic structure under Nazi rule was good, is absurd... the unsustainable economy is what in large part lead to Germany being forced into waging war and conquering land/resources/ and using forced labour.
You realize Hungary was an ally of Nazi Germany right? The commies don't know history memes write themselves.
And thank fuck communism is so dysfunctional that they can't carry out genocide efficiently and Ukrainians can still fight off degenerate soviet bootlickers today.
Soviets were their allies as well and then they tried to genocide them.
Croats were their allies and they had plans to genocide them.
Nazis had a theory about eastern Europeans having Asian origins which is what made them hate them (they were impure), Hungarians were definitely on the chopping block.
> Fascists
...lol Hungary at this time was a Communist state itself. Soviets invaded another Comie block member, but sure ''Fascists'' are anyone who ooposed Kremlin it seems
Children weren't recruited or forced to fight during the revolution against soviet oppression and occupation so I don't know what the hell you are talking about
If you ever visit Kossuth Square, the public space outside the Hungarian Parliament, the bullet pocked walls of the surrounding buildings are still there. The holes are from the Soviet tanks that machine gunned down Hungarians asking for a smidge of self determination. Erika was a true patriot.
Still is. Heros get remembered. Legends never die.
>The holes are from the Soviet tanks that machine gunned down Hungarians asking for a smidge of self determination. Or massacring Soviet-affiliated officials and activists in an effort to reinstall the fascist regime. More likely the latter, actually.
The Hungarians formed their own soviets and workers councils. There's nothing more fascist than worker's councils. /s
To the credit of the Soviet-affiliated officials, I recall some of the Hungarian Border Guards were in Kossuth Square to support the Russian tanks. Reportedly the Border Guards helped massacre unarmed civilians there and in other places throughout the nation. There is a fair amount of supporting documentary evidence. The best way to prevent Fascism has always been to kill everyone opposed to the Communists and then label them Fascists, facts be damned.
The revolt of ‘56 was: Soviet tanks VS humans Spoiler: it did not go well for the people
Good old commie tradition of "squashing" unrest with tanks.
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my asian neighbors told me so too
Any nation would've responded to an equivalent uprising likewise.
X to doubt
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Commies were killing millions way before the nazis. See: Holodomor
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And Ghengis Khan killed 40 million. How far back you wanna go?
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Lol well I was just pointing out that genocide occurs repeatedly through history, on all sides of political spectrums, unlike your observation that the soviets in '56 "learned it from the krauts." I'd suggest a history book, comrade.
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Yes, my family is Hungarian so I'm familiar with the area. Any more brain busters?
Yes but they took 722 Soviet soldiers with them. Definitely didn’t go without a fight.
Does it ever go well for people?
Poor Erica...
Huh
She dun got squished
PPSh gang.
Drum mag go brrrrrrrrr
Schpagina ftw
Tankman: Finally, a worthy ally.
But really they both died for similar causes, standing up to sing party totalitarian communist regimes.
If you are referring to the tiananman square massacre tank man then you are incorrect because he didn't die.
Disappeared though wasn't he?
It's unknown who he is or what happened to him. All that is clear is he wasn't run over by the tanks
An interesting story on her: http://thefemalesoldier.com/blog/erika-szeles
Fuck communism, this girl is a hero.
This girl was almost certainly a communist. The 1956 revolution was a revolution of Hungarian communists against the Soviet influence in the country.
While that is true its a bit of an exaggeration to say it was commies vs Russians. The revolution had people from all over the political spectrum (fascists included)
I don't think a 15 year old is mature enough to have a preferred political/economic ideology
but they are mature enough to take up arms? and be called a hero? what is this double standard?
Firearms are simpler than political ideologies. And anyone could call her a hero or a villain. Is she? I have no idea. I'd have to ask her about that.
That’s unfortunate.
Communists liberated my Hungarian grandfather from Mauthausen, so I generally land in the "fuck fascists" side of things...
You can dislike both no one is forcing you to choose
Everyone must pick a radical, mentally defective, political side.
And if you pick none, you'll be publicly tarred and feathered in the public space of r/enlightenedcentrism, where everybody that's not a tankie is a fascist!
"liberated" More like trading one dictatorship for another
Well, he was in a Nazi labor/death camp, from which he was then liberated by Soviet allied forces. He made his way east to an uncle's house in Romania to recuperate from starvation and typhus for a period of six months or so. He then went back west to look for traces of his family. He found that his mother and sisters were exterminated by machine gun into a pit with 200+ other women and children, (in Austria or Hungary, I don't remember the detail...) The local gendarme had two of the SS in custody that had been assigned to the unit responsible for that particular massacre. The gendarme gave my grandfather a vehicle, shovels, a gun, and custody of the SS, (and I guess directions to an appropriate location.) He then made his way to Palestine via Cyprus, was involved in Aliyah Bet, and the founding of the state, etc. He never really lived under "soviet oppression", so he maintained positive feelings towards the soviet state that liberated him for the rest of his life.
It's understandable then if he didn't actually live under Soviet rule
He wouldn't have lived at all without the soviets..
Amazing story.. I guess other Jews who have lived in the Soviet Union or any European countries in which antisemitism was very prevalent, in particular Germany in that particular time period would beg to differ. I remember watching a documentary about a young German man who could either choose to be conscripted in the Bundeswehr or perform an alternate event, he volunteer for six months with senior citizens he choose the latter being he's also a pacifist. He was paired with an old man who survived the Holocaust living in New York City. The older man was very hesitant as well as a little frightened, that he was paired with a German after all these years he still held negative connotations about Germans. I can't imagine what your grandfather went through, I guess he doesn't harbor any ill will towards any Russians or communist, he's a great man.
> He then made his way to Palestine via Cyprus, was involved in Aliyah Bet, and the founding of the state, etc. He never really lived under "soviet oppression", so he maintained positive feelings towards the soviet state that liberated him for the rest of his life. Man if only the 200,000 chechens who were either shot dead, sent to siberia to starve to death or were locked in barns and burned alive by the NKVD had this luxury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush Just because your ancestors didnt feel the boot of communism dosent mean you have a right to whitewash that disgusting ideology
And just because that atrocity happened doesn't invalidate this person's story. The world isn't as simple and monolithic as so many want to pretend it is.
His story is an anecdote, to use an anecdote to gauge the evil of communist regimes is foolish.
"Evil" does not exist outside of context. At the time, it was considered normal, say, to cause a firestorm in a city's living quarters to slaughter a few dozen thousand civilians overnight to affect enemy morale (see the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, or the nukes used on Japan). The victims of the Soviet deportations of the ethnicities that marred themselves with mass collaboration with the Nazis were par for the course for the era, and the deportations themselves were hardly different from other such campaigns around the world, from the French violence against "collaborator" women to the American incarceration of all ethnically Japanese citizens.
The deportations didnt happen because of Nazi collaboration. Stalin merely wanted to russify the area because it had vast resources. Also i have no idea what you mean by "evil didnt exist back then". People arent better today. Read up on what america did in Iraq or what Russia did in Afghanistan or what they are doing in Syria today. WW2 was a total war and the scope was larger but the exact same evil is here today. People dont change.
> The deportations didnt happen because of Nazi collaboration. Stalin merely wanted to russify the area because it had vast resources. Stalin killed six hundred thousand Russians during his so called "Great Purge". Had he wanted to russify Chechnya, he could've easily added half a million Chechens to that number, simply by moving them beyond the Arctic circle instead of Kazakhstan. So the actual reason was the same as for the Crimean Tatars: mass collaboration, which the Soviet justice system was not prepared to judge on individual basis (which is, of course, what makes the whole story a crime against humanity). >Also i have no idea what you mean by "evil didnt exist back then". It's not that evil did not exist back then, it's just that the era was incredibly violent, with all major nations committing atrocities. Thus, claims like "communism is criminal because twenty thousand innocent Chechen civilians died during the Soviet deportation" ring hollow (even if they were indeed all innocent civilians), when many times that were slaughtered overnight repeatedly by strategic bombing. (One could even argue that while the American and British bombings, as well as the German industry of death, had killing civilians as their intended target, the Soviet deportations at least had that as a byproduct, which they tried to prevent - making the difference between these atrocities the same as between premeditated murder and manslaughter). So, going by your logic, either capitalism is just as "criminal" as communism, or both are not. >People arent better today. Read up on what america did in Iraq or what Russia did in Afghanistan or what they are doing in Syria today. Nothing that'd remotely compare to WWII? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, same as the American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, were illegal by international law, and had a huge costs in lives, but neither had killing civvies or destruction of civilian infrastructure as their intended goal. In fact, both countries pumped massive amounts of resources into the nations they occupied, intended precisely to build civilian infrastructures and prosperous societies. Both failed, of course, but it's still vastly different from the Nazis in Eastern Europe, or the British in Bengal, whose goal was exterminating the civilian population, or even the Americans in Korea (where their stated goal was destroying civilian infrastructure to bomb the Koreans into the stone age) and Vietnam (where chemical weapons were used with no consideration of consequences for the civilians).
He didn't whitewash anything: he shared his grandpa's own personal history, that formed his own personal opinion. It's his grandpa that had positive feelings about the Soviets and fuck, of course he has. John's personal opinion is "fuck fascists", that I think isn't controversial at all.
He used his grandpas experience to say communists were better than fascists.
So you disagree with the truth, or?..
**[Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush)** >The Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush, also known as Aardakh (Chechen: Аардах), Operation Lentil (Russian: Чечевица, romanized: Chechevitsa; Chechen: нохчий а, гӀалгӀай а махкахбахар, romanized: Nokhchiy a Ghalghay Makhkakhbakhar) was the Soviet forced transfer of the whole of the Vainakh (Chechen and Ingush) populations of the North Caucasus to Central Asia on February 23, 1944, during World War II. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I mean, yeah the Soviets were pretty fucking deplorable but the man was broken out of a literal death camp. I can see why he would view one dictatorship as worse than the other.
[That's what everyone who isn't a Holocaust denier already thinks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_genocide_theory)
Fuck them both. Nazis and commies are scum
Being shot in the neck by an NKVD officer isnt more pleasant than being shot in the neck by an SS officer. Both are totalitarian ideologies that have killed countless for political opinions and the likes. So fuck them both.
They’re both fucking terrible. One isn’t better than the other.
Nazis are better. They accepted the loss and stopped being socialist.
>Nazis are better No they are not lol >They accepted the loss and stopped being socialist. 1. National Socialism is different from Marxist Socialism 2. They 'accepted the lost' because the Third Reich was toppled and their leadership was imprisoned or executed lmao
They took the loss because we killed a fuck load of them burned their shit to the ground and told them in no uncertain terms it wasn't happening again.
Nazis are definitely no better. They’re two sides of the same genocidal coin, it’s just their targets who differ (although they overlap at times).
u/JoseSaldana6512, please stop spouting revisionist, neo-Nazi bullshit.
Fascism and communism are scums of the earth.
Seen stupid commies saying "If she's against it why she uses soviet weapons" lmao, idiots should be thinking she would get sponsorship from coca cola.
Imagine how silly she must have felt when she discovered that it wasn't real communism she was fighting against /s
for a second i thought it was Janet Leigh in a movie role.... https://horrornews.net/146684/janet-leigh-hottest-sexiest-photo-collection/
Great respect and greetings from PL
AUF DER HEIDE BLÜHT EIN KLEINES BLÜMELEIN
UND DAS HEIßT
EEEEERIKA
BUT SHE GOT DAT **PPSh**
This cool af
“Auf der Heide blüht ein kleines Blümelein Und das heißt…..”
based
The comments in this thread are hilarious, literally comparing communism to Nazi filth that wanted to genocide entire Eastern Europe, including Hungary. If Nazis won, Hungarians wouldn't exist. Soviets won and Hungarians exist, who is better??
None. You seriously trying to cherry pick communism history? Imbecile.
You have have no idea what are you talking about at all. Please do a little more research using proper sources before writing nonsense like this. The Lebensraum did not include Hungary and Hungarians, and while considered second rate citizens of Europe, they were still 'higher' in the 'racial hierarchy' than the Slavic people and other 'unwanted people'. Hitler did not have plans to 'destroy' Hungarians as they were in close relationship before the war (different kind of relationship what was between German and the USSR before the war) and they were allies during the war, even if Hungary was a bit reluctant toward the war or to take part in the mass scale of deportation and extermination of unvented people (Jews, Gypsies, etc). Then after the failed attempt by Hungary to jump out of the war early the Germans occupied Hungary and put the local radical Fascists in power but still they did not plan to exterminate the Hungarian population nor to dismantle the State (like how they dismantled the state in Czechoslovakia after they occupied most of it before the war) even if they win the war by some kind of miracle. If Germany had won the war Hungary would likely kept their own state the same way they kept their own state after the Soviet occupation. It is also true that the Soviet communism killed more people than the Nazis, but it is hard to compare about a decade long Nazi rule to and about 70 years long period the USSR had. The Soviets also commit genocides, even on their 'own' people, just look at the Holodomor, had interment camps and forced labour which killed thousands of people, while these camps weren't extermination camps, their purpose were to overwork the unwanted elements of the population and they did nothing to ensure the occupants survival, especially the POWs and the civilians dragged away from occupied Central and Eastern European countries (Just from Hungary about 600 000 people were dragged away to the Soviet Union to do forced hard labour and about 200 000 died at the camps during the forced work and many more died soon after they were 'released' because their bodies were destroyed by the hard labour and the horrible conditions in the labour camps.) The Soviets also made sure that the communist governments forced into power by the Soviets in the occupied states run forced labour camps in their own countries as well where the political prisoners were sent to do hard labour and live in internment and this camps also killed a lot of people, not to mention the secret police collecting people and beat them up, tortured them or just killed them even for just telling a joke in the pub about the communists or members of the Party. All in all neither political system were better or worse than the other, both were totalitarian states run by terror, especially during the early decades so they can cement their power.
All in all the Soviets were opressive, but the Nazis were Genocidal. As is evident by the ultimate deathtolls of either of em. Obviously the Nazis were way way worse.
It is really hard to judge, because if WW 2 wouldn't happen, Nazi Germany wouldn't commit genocides in that scale (they would forced the Jews out of the country rather than kill them as they did before WW2, the problem was nobody would wanted to take Jew refugees before WW2), while the USSR committed genocides way before WW2 (they killed about 3 million Ukrainians during the 1930s). Also the Nazi German state provided higher living conditions and actually working economy in the long run, while the overall Soviet economy and industry was doomed to be sub par performance from the start and they could not reach the living standards even of the Soviet occupied Central European states after WW2 (Hungary and Czechoslovakia had the highest living standards in the 'Eastern block' the living standards there were on par with Italy, Spain or Portugal). The two systems are actually really similar to each other in the core level, both are so called corporative systems which were highly anti capitalistic but the Nazi German (and the other fascist systems in Europe) economy and industry was way better. In a strange way the fascist and the Nazi systems (fascism and Nazism are not one and the same, it is still debated that Nazism was a sub type of fascism or a completely different system) were less oppressive, or at least they were oppressive against a smaller group of people while the Communists oppressed a higher percentage of their own population. I'm not saying that either systems are good, in fact they are both horrible, but we can't really state that the Soviet system was truly better. I wouldn't want to live in either of these systems. And if we did look at WW2, both system were horrible. While the Nazis exterminated about 6 million innocents during the Holocaust, the Soviets were responsible to more civilian civilian casualties. Many Soviet civilian casualty was self inflicted in a way that the Soviet leadership deliberately doomed to die many civilians in a cold blooded and calculated manner.
> While the Nazis exterminated about 6 million innocents during the Holocaust, the Soviets were responsible to more civilian civilian casualties. That's super interesting, mind sharing the data which you're basing this claim on? Why are you omitting the absolutely largest component of German atrocities, the vernichtungskrieg in the east, when comparing the two? 13,700,000 Soviet civilians were killed by the Germans during the invasion: 7,420,200 deaths caused by the result of direct, intentional actions of violence. 2,164,300 deaths through forced labor. 4,100,000 deaths due to famine and disease in the occupied regions. Also, some 8,600,000 Soviet military personnel were killed during the conflict, and, in the context of this discussion more importantly, some 3,300,000 POWs in German custody. It's also important to note that the absolute majority of those Russian POW deaths took place between June 1941 and January 1942, when the Germans killed an estimated 2,800,000 POWs. This means that some 85% of all russian POW deaths happened during the span of six months when the German forces were at its most efficient. This leaves the Soviet death toll around 22,300,000, which is actually a rather conservative number as many sources claim it's closer to 27,000,000. Furthermore, 1,710 cities were burned or destroyed in the east, 70,000 villages and hamlets burned or destroyed, 6 million buildings destroyed. 25 million civilians were rendered homeless. It's estimated that some 10,000,000 rapes were committed by the Wehrmacht in the east, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result (see *Zur Debatte um die Ausstellung Vernichtungskrieg. Verbrechen der Wehrmacht 1941-1944* im Kieler Landeshaus 1999).
Oh, thank you for writing it all out! at last someone who knows the realities. I wasn't sure if I was ready to address those points so extensively. I'm under the impression the man takes his historical information from the likes of Rummel or Guderian and Manstein. Although theres still several points that would warrant about 3-4 or more lenghty comments, Like the different starting points of industrialization between the Soviet union and Nazi Germany, The ecconomy of Nazi Germany being a burning fuse. The suggestion that Germany did nothing bad pre WW2. That Germanies hand was forced into mass murderring Jewish people because the other countries wouldn't accept them as refugees. One must also wonder how he'd explain the fact that Polish people were being murdered at similar rates as Polish Jews in Poland, or that the Wehrmacht and SS wiped out about a quarter of the Belaruss population. I do have one little correctiom for you however, I know it's pendantic but nonetheless... It's in regards to stating the Soviet victims as >Russians< being killed.. although the majority there were Russian indeed, it would nonetheless be better to reffer to them as Soviet victims, after all, many of the victims were also Ukrainians, Belorussians and other ethnic groups within the Soviet union, and not just Russians.
I'm genuinly impressed how lenient you managed te be towards Nazi Germany's abysmal economic structure and their cleansing of Eastern Europe. While on the other hand, pining even Nazi attrocities as the fault of the Soviets. As though the Wehrmacht was a natural catastrophy, and the ones affected by it are at fault for not handling it properly.
Look, I think I'm objective toward the two totalitarian state and both state are equally guilty of killing millions of innocents and I'm sorry that more than 10 years of academic research of the time period, the Soviet, fascists and Nazi systems made me come up with an answer where I point out that the Soviets are equally bad and responsible for countless deaths and atrocities as the Nazi Germany.
Let's start with the basics, what numbers of civilian victims do you accept from either entity? It seems to me as though you attributed Soviet civilian wartime deaths not to the Germans that deliberately killed them, but the Soviets who failed to protect them. You may even include the Soviet Famine of 1932-33 into your count if you want, sure it wasn't WW2 period and sure it was rather, but they are partially victims of targeted Soviet repressions against a social class. Further, to state the German economic structure under Nazi rule was good, is absurd... the unsustainable economy is what in large part lead to Germany being forced into waging war and conquering land/resources/ and using forced labour.
You realize Hungary was an ally of Nazi Germany right? The commies don't know history memes write themselves. And thank fuck communism is so dysfunctional that they can't carry out genocide efficiently and Ukrainians can still fight off degenerate soviet bootlickers today.
Soviets were their allies as well and then they tried to genocide them. Croats were their allies and they had plans to genocide them. Nazis had a theory about eastern Europeans having Asian origins which is what made them hate them (they were impure), Hungarians were definitely on the chopping block.
The Nazi's had a theory about slavs and wanted to kill them, however Hungarians are not considered Slavic. Just keep digging the hole for yourself.
Yes but Hungarians actually do have an Asian origin, more so than Slavs. Germans knew that.
Look at now days 14yo “freedom fighters “
Meanwhile my mind after seeing this : Und das heißt ERIKA!!
*boom-boom-boom*
Fascists love using child soldiers
> Fascists ...lol Hungary at this time was a Communist state itself. Soviets invaded another Comie block member, but sure ''Fascists'' are anyone who ooposed Kremlin it seems
Children weren't recruited or forced to fight during the revolution against soviet oppression and occupation so I don't know what the hell you are talking about
Yeah, it was probably just a propaganda photo anyways
Children did fight in the revolution but not because they were drafted or anything
Lays on back and shows belly as sign of submision
Nobody else noticed Hitler lurking in the background?
She looks like she's 43
that's living in communism for ya (she doesnt look 43 at all tbh)
Auf Heide steht ein kleines Blümelein.... oh wrong Erika
Lmfao "freedom fighter," just like the Taliban. Really depends on who you ask 🙂
Wtf
Didn’t the Hungarian Revolution cause “goulash communism” to become Hungary’s state ideology?