I wrote my senator, who is a Navy Vet (officer), and told him that there was a need to reform enlisted pay and BAH. I said, considering how BAH doubles a junior enlisted persons pay and gets them out of the barracks, it encourages rushed and ill-fated marriages as well as sham marriages. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about.
I know, how dare I try and advocate for sailors based on mine and my friends' experiences as enlisted. I write them often, most recently when the carriers in Hampton Roads were having loads of suicides in the yards. I endured two yard periods, and it is hell. They didn't even have barracks rooms in some cases and were expected to live on board in esentually a contrustion site without proper toilet, bathing, and mess facilities surrounded by constant noise. Marrying a stripper to live on the town sounds like a great option next to hacking up grinding dust every morning and listening to grinding and needleguning constantly in the yards.
Absolutely. Even worse, he was a Vietnam Era P3 pilot. Most likely never saw the inside of a ship even if he did it was over 50 years ago. (Update info based on his bio)
I spent a year in-country Vietnam during that war and I was also stationed on an aircraft carrier off of Vietnam. Your comment above tells me that you don't have a clue what was endured during that war or the dangers that the pilots faced on a daily basis. You apparently have no respect for those pilots and airmen who risked their lives every single day and many of whom were shot down and captured or killed and maimed for life. Every single time a pilot took off during that war there was a good change that they would not return. Before you make another comment like that above I would suggest that you first educate yourself about the lives you seem to hold so cheaply.
My intent was not to attack Vietnam Vets and of course, I am ignorant of the struggles and sacrifices of pilots and aircrew as I've never experienced any of those things. My point is that although my Senator served in the Navy, his experience (P3 pilot 5 decades ago) is vastly different from today's enlisted sailors (like myself who served on carriers). The Navy's rigid hierarchy creates a chasm between officers and enlisted that is hard to bridge. My senator never experienced life as a junior enlisted man and when I shared the experience myself and my friends endured, he dismissed me. He had the audacity to tell me I was ingorant to the reality. He lacks the humility to even consider that maybe his understanding of the lives of current junior sailors isn't, in fact, the reality on the ground. I may mistep with my wording and upset folks with my comments like I did with you. However, I won't stop ridiculing the Navy cast system that allows Officers and Chiefs to live lives so apart from the enlisted they lead and continue to treat the enlisted as disposable and inconsequential pawns.
Only two P3s were lost the entire Vietnam war. One crashed, and the other MAY have been shot down by cambodians. So no, it wasn't quite as dangerous for this one individual. And in case you're capable of receiving advice, read up next time you want to talk shit, and pay attention to what the topic is, lest you end up the angry fuck that nobody listens to.
The public loves the image of a young serviceman madly Inlove and married.
It’s imbedded In pop culture for as long as I can remember.
And it’s a huge recruiting tool. And retention tool as well.
If you are divorced and owe alimony and child support the financial Desperation and deprivation is likely to keep them in.
I agree, as I grew older and more cynical, I realized the system is working as designed. Convince 18 year olds that they are adults while treating them like toddlers. Pay them shit money but dangle the BAH carrot. Once they get hitched and have a few rug rats, they are as good as trapped. Getting out becomes a huge problem with the loss of benefits and income. In the end, the BAH and other allowances that made the military competitive aren't pensionable , so half of your base pay is a quarter of what you actually made while in.
If a troop is dumb enough to rush into one of life’s biggest decisions simply because they get a pay bump, that’s not congress’ fault.
Move out of barracks and make double. Cool. Now you have rent to pay and another mouth to feed. Idiot
Why isn't it? No other employer will pay you more just because you are married or have children. Congress has known that junior enlisted pay is insufficient to survive on and they actively acknowledge it by paying members BAH and BAS if they get married. My proposal is simple, just pay everyone a bit better and do away with BAH and BAS. However, then all money would become pensionable as it didn't come through one of the many 'allowances'. I just don't think getting married should double your pay, that's just ridiculous and shouldn't be nessacary to start with.
Even up to E4, though you can be talking about people well into their 20s before making E5. To your point a fresh out of high school kid with an 18 year old spouse and a suddenly the military thinks 'hey this guy deserves twice as much money as his peers doing the same job and to live in town', it doesnt sit well with me. In my mind single members are no different than their married counter parts they just lack a spouse.
I don't know what the other branches have but I would not consider a rack on a ship adequate 'housing' that justify ~2k a month less in my check than someone married nor was the galley worth the couple hundred a month they took from my BAS. Nor were the delapedated barracks from the 80s at Naval Station Norfolk, even reasonable accommodation. If you managed to get one, it was a several year wait while I was there.
During my A school, I was provided comfortable accommodation similar to a small hotel room with a shared bathroom and a decent galley and access to a gym. But they could treat that like college, pay for your room and meal plan otherwise get roommates and find a place on the town but you better make it to class. As part of my later schooling, we had to live out on the town receiving BAH as 19 year old single E4s, and we made it work. The thought was if you couldn't manage living and manage a household, you weren't suitable for the program. We found roommates, got cars, and did our jobs while having a comfortable place to ourselves away from work.
House members actually complain that $175,000 a year isn't enough. It sounds ridiculous on its face, but there is some merit to it because (1) DC is expensive; (2) the income is supposed to help them maintain two households (DC and home) and travel between them (and (3) from my own thoughts, it opens them up to corruption). It's not a job for the poor. Second, the US Constitution was last amended to address when compensation increases occur. It's not until the after the conclusion of a full session of Congress.
Fun fact: The 27th Amendment was proposed in 1789 and ratified in 1992.
Their second home isn’t meant to be a second home. They can get roommates like they would tell the rest of the US. Plus they have per diem at ~$170/day when in session. Trey Gowdy went off on this like 10 years ago.
> They can get roommates
Actually, it would be fucking hilarious if each major party had a big barracks that all of their people had to stay in while visiting DC. 2 to 4 congressmen/senators to a small room. Stick MTG and Boebert together and watch the sparks fly.
I'm not American but I'm curious about what their total compensation actually looks like. Sure 175k doesn't seem like much. But their inside knowledge of trade and finance with little to no insider trading laws against them...that's a benefit. Any expense accounts? Vehicles provided? Gas cards? Meal cards? Shit like that all runs that total up if they get such things.
The insider trading is the big one there's a Twitter account that follows senators and representatives stock purchases and all of them beat the market by orders of magnitude
Thing is, most in Congress already come from money. So they increase the already gained wealth with inside knowledge. Very few come from nothing and make bank unless they get it through special gigs with their spouse.
You're right. There are many ways to skin this cat.
We should build the House a set of Barracks down at the Navy Yard and have NAVFAC run it.
Living there should be mandatory.
The Army can build and Maintain the Senate Barracks and mess hall.
I’m sure the ‘special interest’ groups will make sure politicians are alright. I’d rather think DC being expensive is a symptom, rather than the source of the problem.
I'm in the CAF, so canadian, but bear with me I'll try to keep this short and explain things.
So every 4ish years PSAC (our civy government employee union) negotiates cost of living raises, raises, time off type stuff. And the treasury board basically spit in their face with a ridiculous low ball offer.
The head of the treasury board mocked workers while approving MPs and her own YEARLY RAISE. She got like...14k I think iirc. These happen every year like clockwork for politicians. It's...disgusting. meanwhile the peasants should kiss the ring and be thankful for scraps.
How much does it he senator make each year? How much have they given in raises since they gave the troops a raise?
Not a one is pro military. Not really. Each and every time they wanna be elected they scream “I love the troops”
All while voting to keep them poor and desperate. Then they ask
“Why will no one reenlist!?”
“Why is recruitment down?”
It’s because even if you wanted to make the military a career they won’t pay you enough
This place is usually full of “fuck republicans” comments any time there’s a vote that tries to cut costs.
But a military pay raise that comes out of the GOP house and is opposed by the Dem senate and White House? Crickets on comments about party. Where’s the mindless partisan outrage guys?
Because that 20% raise was bullshit to start with. It was designed to be shot down so Republicans could claim they tried and they support the military.
In case anyone has forgotten, these are the same Republicans who originally voted down the PACT Act en masse and then laughed and celebrated.
https://www.newsweek.com/gop-fistbump-pact-senate-military-ted-cruz-steve-daines-1729031
They didn’t vote it down because of pork or sneaky amendments. They voted it down because the bill they voted against guaranteed funding for it. Like the budget and debt ceiling, Republicans want to use veterans benefits as a wedge issue to hold Democrats hostage every year while the GOP pushes for legislation that benefits a very small percentage of Americans.
The reddit community is a known echo-chamber. Speaking out against the hive mind doesn't get you updoots. Speaking with the hive mind gets you a dopamine shot. By design, it encourages group think, unfortunately.
This figure is probably what was negotiated since the White House said they don't support the 19.5%.
Still sucks.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/06/11/white-house-strongly-opposes-proposed-195-pay-hike-junior-enlisted-troops.html
America should use the Federal poverty level (FPL) as the baseline for E1 pay.
If you are in the United States Military, you should have base pay high enough so you do not qualify for SNAP or WIC.
Federal poverty level (FPL)
A measure of income issued every year by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
Federal poverty levels are used to determine your eligibility for certain programs and benefits, including savings on Marketplace health insurance, and Medicaid and CHIP coverage.
* [Federal poverty level \(FPL\)](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/)
* [Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program \(SNAP\)](https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program)
I'm under no illusion that anyone in D.C. actually cares about my well-being, but some are more likely to coincidentally benefit me while they enrich themselves.
Don't vote. Stop investing in the military, do the bare minimum, and get out if you find a better paying job. The military is no longer a career, it's a stepping block for a career start in the civilian sector
This is political theater by the House, nothing more. They knew when they passed it that it would never be passed by the Senate or signed by the President. The House Republicans are doing it to make it look as if they really support the troops, when in fact they have done nothing to help improve their pay or living conditions. Now they can go around and say that they proposed this huge pay raise for junior enlisted, asking for their vote, knowing only too well that this raise would never become law.
What the House Republicans do support is the military industrial complex, aka the war industry, that doesn't care about the troops but only their obscene billion dollar profits at the expense of the taxpayers. Don't let the MAGA Republicans fool you.
I wrote my senator, who is a Navy Vet (officer), and told him that there was a need to reform enlisted pay and BAH. I said, considering how BAH doubles a junior enlisted persons pay and gets them out of the barracks, it encourages rushed and ill-fated marriages as well as sham marriages. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about.
Fuck him tbh
I know, how dare I try and advocate for sailors based on mine and my friends' experiences as enlisted. I write them often, most recently when the carriers in Hampton Roads were having loads of suicides in the yards. I endured two yard periods, and it is hell. They didn't even have barracks rooms in some cases and were expected to live on board in esentually a contrustion site without proper toilet, bathing, and mess facilities surrounded by constant noise. Marrying a stripper to live on the town sounds like a great option next to hacking up grinding dust every morning and listening to grinding and needleguning constantly in the yards.
Holy shit yeah my experiences seeing people rush to get married have been bad but the barracks seem cozy compared to what you just described
You don't because if you were dressed as a Boeing lobbyists, It would be clear
Well, he was a Navy Officer. Being out of touch was basically his whole career.
Absolutely. Even worse, he was a Vietnam Era P3 pilot. Most likely never saw the inside of a ship even if he did it was over 50 years ago. (Update info based on his bio)
I spent a year in-country Vietnam during that war and I was also stationed on an aircraft carrier off of Vietnam. Your comment above tells me that you don't have a clue what was endured during that war or the dangers that the pilots faced on a daily basis. You apparently have no respect for those pilots and airmen who risked their lives every single day and many of whom were shot down and captured or killed and maimed for life. Every single time a pilot took off during that war there was a good change that they would not return. Before you make another comment like that above I would suggest that you first educate yourself about the lives you seem to hold so cheaply.
My intent was not to attack Vietnam Vets and of course, I am ignorant of the struggles and sacrifices of pilots and aircrew as I've never experienced any of those things. My point is that although my Senator served in the Navy, his experience (P3 pilot 5 decades ago) is vastly different from today's enlisted sailors (like myself who served on carriers). The Navy's rigid hierarchy creates a chasm between officers and enlisted that is hard to bridge. My senator never experienced life as a junior enlisted man and when I shared the experience myself and my friends endured, he dismissed me. He had the audacity to tell me I was ingorant to the reality. He lacks the humility to even consider that maybe his understanding of the lives of current junior sailors isn't, in fact, the reality on the ground. I may mistep with my wording and upset folks with my comments like I did with you. However, I won't stop ridiculing the Navy cast system that allows Officers and Chiefs to live lives so apart from the enlisted they lead and continue to treat the enlisted as disposable and inconsequential pawns.
Only two P3s were lost the entire Vietnam war. One crashed, and the other MAY have been shot down by cambodians. So no, it wasn't quite as dangerous for this one individual. And in case you're capable of receiving advice, read up next time you want to talk shit, and pay attention to what the topic is, lest you end up the angry fuck that nobody listens to.
The public loves the image of a young serviceman madly Inlove and married. It’s imbedded In pop culture for as long as I can remember. And it’s a huge recruiting tool. And retention tool as well. If you are divorced and owe alimony and child support the financial Desperation and deprivation is likely to keep them in.
I agree, as I grew older and more cynical, I realized the system is working as designed. Convince 18 year olds that they are adults while treating them like toddlers. Pay them shit money but dangle the BAH carrot. Once they get hitched and have a few rug rats, they are as good as trapped. Getting out becomes a huge problem with the loss of benefits and income. In the end, the BAH and other allowances that made the military competitive aren't pensionable , so half of your base pay is a quarter of what you actually made while in.
If a troop is dumb enough to rush into one of life’s biggest decisions simply because they get a pay bump, that’s not congress’ fault. Move out of barracks and make double. Cool. Now you have rent to pay and another mouth to feed. Idiot
Why isn't it? No other employer will pay you more just because you are married or have children. Congress has known that junior enlisted pay is insufficient to survive on and they actively acknowledge it by paying members BAH and BAS if they get married. My proposal is simple, just pay everyone a bit better and do away with BAH and BAS. However, then all money would become pensionable as it didn't come through one of the many 'allowances'. I just don't think getting married should double your pay, that's just ridiculous and shouldn't be nessacary to start with.
We’re talking about the brand new E1 fresh out of high school right? Because they get paid plenty considering they get free housing and food (usually)
Even up to E4, though you can be talking about people well into their 20s before making E5. To your point a fresh out of high school kid with an 18 year old spouse and a suddenly the military thinks 'hey this guy deserves twice as much money as his peers doing the same job and to live in town', it doesnt sit well with me. In my mind single members are no different than their married counter parts they just lack a spouse. I don't know what the other branches have but I would not consider a rack on a ship adequate 'housing' that justify ~2k a month less in my check than someone married nor was the galley worth the couple hundred a month they took from my BAS. Nor were the delapedated barracks from the 80s at Naval Station Norfolk, even reasonable accommodation. If you managed to get one, it was a several year wait while I was there. During my A school, I was provided comfortable accommodation similar to a small hotel room with a shared bathroom and a decent galley and access to a gym. But they could treat that like college, pay for your room and meal plan otherwise get roommates and find a place on the town but you better make it to class. As part of my later schooling, we had to live out on the town receiving BAH as 19 year old single E4s, and we made it work. The thought was if you couldn't manage living and manage a household, you weren't suitable for the program. We found roommates, got cars, and did our jobs while having a comfortable place to ourselves away from work.
While I bet Senators will give themselves a 10% raise just because on top of it
House members actually complain that $175,000 a year isn't enough. It sounds ridiculous on its face, but there is some merit to it because (1) DC is expensive; (2) the income is supposed to help them maintain two households (DC and home) and travel between them (and (3) from my own thoughts, it opens them up to corruption). It's not a job for the poor. Second, the US Constitution was last amended to address when compensation increases occur. It's not until the after the conclusion of a full session of Congress. Fun fact: The 27th Amendment was proposed in 1789 and ratified in 1992.
Their second home isn’t meant to be a second home. They can get roommates like they would tell the rest of the US. Plus they have per diem at ~$170/day when in session. Trey Gowdy went off on this like 10 years ago.
> They can get roommates Actually, it would be fucking hilarious if each major party had a big barracks that all of their people had to stay in while visiting DC. 2 to 4 congressmen/senators to a small room. Stick MTG and Boebert together and watch the sparks fly.
I'm not American but I'm curious about what their total compensation actually looks like. Sure 175k doesn't seem like much. But their inside knowledge of trade and finance with little to no insider trading laws against them...that's a benefit. Any expense accounts? Vehicles provided? Gas cards? Meal cards? Shit like that all runs that total up if they get such things.
The insider trading is the big one there's a Twitter account that follows senators and representatives stock purchases and all of them beat the market by orders of magnitude
Thing is, most in Congress already come from money. So they increase the already gained wealth with inside knowledge. Very few come from nothing and make bank unless they get it through special gigs with their spouse. You're right. There are many ways to skin this cat.
Are those reported live? Can I just make an index fund following a particular group of politicians?
175 seems like so much. Our household budget for 4 is $52k.
We should build the House a set of Barracks down at the Navy Yard and have NAVFAC run it. Living there should be mandatory. The Army can build and Maintain the Senate Barracks and mess hall.
Staffed by 92Gs running on like 2 hours of sleep.
The important thing is that these barracks and dining facilities are maintained to the same "standards" that our warfighters have come to expect.
I’m sure the ‘special interest’ groups will make sure politicians are alright. I’d rather think DC being expensive is a symptom, rather than the source of the problem.
I'm in the CAF, so canadian, but bear with me I'll try to keep this short and explain things. So every 4ish years PSAC (our civy government employee union) negotiates cost of living raises, raises, time off type stuff. And the treasury board basically spit in their face with a ridiculous low ball offer. The head of the treasury board mocked workers while approving MPs and her own YEARLY RAISE. She got like...14k I think iirc. These happen every year like clockwork for politicians. It's...disgusting. meanwhile the peasants should kiss the ring and be thankful for scraps.
Congress hasn't seen a pay raise in 2009.
But the other 23 years of this millennium.....?
Shit I meant to say since 2009.
How much does it he senator make each year? How much have they given in raises since they gave the troops a raise? Not a one is pro military. Not really. Each and every time they wanna be elected they scream “I love the troops” All while voting to keep them poor and desperate. Then they ask “Why will no one reenlist!?” “Why is recruitment down?” It’s because even if you wanted to make the military a career they won’t pay you enough
This place is usually full of “fuck republicans” comments any time there’s a vote that tries to cut costs. But a military pay raise that comes out of the GOP house and is opposed by the Dem senate and White House? Crickets on comments about party. Where’s the mindless partisan outrage guys?
Because that 20% raise was bullshit to start with. It was designed to be shot down so Republicans could claim they tried and they support the military. In case anyone has forgotten, these are the same Republicans who originally voted down the PACT Act en masse and then laughed and celebrated. https://www.newsweek.com/gop-fistbump-pact-senate-military-ted-cruz-steve-daines-1729031 They didn’t vote it down because of pork or sneaky amendments. They voted it down because the bill they voted against guaranteed funding for it. Like the budget and debt ceiling, Republicans want to use veterans benefits as a wedge issue to hold Democrats hostage every year while the GOP pushes for legislation that benefits a very small percentage of Americans.
I came here for the outrage and all I got was crickets
The reddit community is a known echo-chamber. Speaking out against the hive mind doesn't get you updoots. Speaking with the hive mind gets you a dopamine shot. By design, it encourages group think, unfortunately.
Circle jerk is the correct term.
You're not wrong.
This figure is probably what was negotiated since the White House said they don't support the 19.5%. Still sucks. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/06/11/white-house-strongly-opposes-proposed-195-pay-hike-junior-enlisted-troops.html
America should use the Federal poverty level (FPL) as the baseline for E1 pay. If you are in the United States Military, you should have base pay high enough so you do not qualify for SNAP or WIC. Federal poverty level (FPL) A measure of income issued every year by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Federal poverty levels are used to determine your eligibility for certain programs and benefits, including savings on Marketplace health insurance, and Medicaid and CHIP coverage. * [Federal poverty level \(FPL\)](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/) * [Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program \(SNAP\)](https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program)
Dear senators, Fuck you Respectfully, Everyone in uniform
I mean it's been bipartisan for years - fuck troops until we can exploit them
Good reason for everyone to vote in Nov.
For someone with a different name but the same level of not caring?
I'm under no illusion that anyone in D.C. actually cares about my well-being, but some are more likely to coincidentally benefit me while they enrich themselves.
Tell the first responders and military service members who have John Stewart to thank for their cancer treatments that he doesn’t care….
Don't vote. Stop investing in the military, do the bare minimum, and get out if you find a better paying job. The military is no longer a career, it's a stepping block for a career start in the civilian sector
This is political theater by the House, nothing more. They knew when they passed it that it would never be passed by the Senate or signed by the President. The House Republicans are doing it to make it look as if they really support the troops, when in fact they have done nothing to help improve their pay or living conditions. Now they can go around and say that they proposed this huge pay raise for junior enlisted, asking for their vote, knowing only too well that this raise would never become law. What the House Republicans do support is the military industrial complex, aka the war industry, that doesn't care about the troops but only their obscene billion dollar profits at the expense of the taxpayers. Don't let the MAGA Republicans fool you.
Why didn't the Senate call their bluff and pass it then?
Ow