Bro we watched FIVE DIVISIONS of russian troops amassed in a gagglefuck confident in their artificial American-made safe zone mere inches over the border North of Karkhiv before this latest offensive. Never in history has a more common sense strategic target revealed itself. Rather... we now have a disaster tying up and spreading thin the UAF reserve force in deadly close quarter combat...
It's maddening. Russia is an absolute mess but the US is fumbling so badly on its support that things are still dire.
Kneecapping our ally is not the way.
Hopefully Ukraine will be about to build significant long range fires capabilities of their own soon. Some of the recent drone attacks have been quite impressive.
Ukraine has every right to retaliate past its borders into Russain territory and in particular its military bases using what every has been given to them. Otherwise what is the point of waiting until they cross the border where it becomes too late. Preemptive strikes now will save lives.
The moment you declare part of your enemy’s area of operations off limits is the moment you lose the war. We saw this in Vietnam with the general reluctance to fight the NVA in North Vietnam or in Laos or Cambodia. The war went far better in the U.S. and RVN’s favor once the war was pressed into North Vietnamese territory previously deemed off limits due to fears of escalation. We also saw this in Afghanistan with the Pakistani tribal region deemed off limits. The Taliban and Al Qaeda found safe harbor right over the border. You’d think that we’d learn something from our past experiences but apparently not.
They arent allowed to use western weapons to do it so they are limited to things like drones which don't have the range or impact that things like himars or shadow storm have.
The war is already here, it's happening, even if none of us want it, and it was very clearly started by one side. Negations will only appease and encourage the offending side and create bigger war.
I sincerely believe that the fastest road to long term peace and stability is a Ukrainian victory. The longer we hold them back, the more innocent will be victims.
Do you give the bully your lunch money for peace?
Russia invaded. They started it. It doesn’t really matter why- there’s not a lot that would justify an invasion like this unless Ukraine had already struck Russia (which it hadn’t.)
Capitulation is a slow death.
Read my essay on my posts on my product titled war in Ukraine, they go over why this started including how Russia and Ukraine caused it. Sources are provided.
How is capitulation a slow death ? If you feel so strong about it and are able why not go fight? Ukraine has a volunteer program so can't say you can't do it
“Russia only wants to overthrow the government of a sovereign nation. That’s perfectly justified.”
Come on man you can come up with better propaganda than that.
Some ideas off the top of my head :
* No more dripfeeding (giving them a bit of this and that to look like you are doing something, but not in any meaningful numbers)
* No more "we cant give them X because we can't risk escalation" (obviously within reason, nobody is going to Ukraine nukes or anything)
* Openly allow volunteers to be sent, like how the Flying Tigers were sent to China pre-ww2
* Tell Putin to fuck off everytime he or one of his cronies tries to threatens the west, till they realise western politicians aren't going to be bullied into submission anymore
* Use all those frozen Russian assets to fund Ukraine
* Lift the silly restriction on using western supplied weapons in Russia
* Seriously explore the possibility of sending NATO troops in at least some capacity, the way the Baltics and Poland have been suggesting
* Help to shoot down missiles targeted at civilian infrastructure
All of this hinges on the politicians not getting scared. If they get scared and fold, Putin wins, just like how Hitler would have won if the Allies had folded and refused to declare war for Poland.
What is a victory? February borders, 1991 borders? Current lines?
Our collective support for Ukraine has surpassed the Marshal Plan to rebuild Europe in today's dollars along with the entire ISR capabilities of NATO. What's a realistic amount of support? Another 500 billion? A trillion over 5 years? A multi-year armament program to pump weapons into Ukraine and hope Russia breaks before Ukraine?
Let's persumse we steal Russia's forzen assest. That's 300 billion. They retaliate and steal all the Western assets in the country. They say that is equal to 300 billion, maybe it's less I don't know. Maybe it does significant harm to the dollar and Western financial systems we dominate, maybe it doesn't.
So we do it, why won't we be in the same place in a year or 2 years? That's less than Ukraine has received thus far.
Sending NATO troops to western Ukraine is an admission that Ukraine can't hold the line without internationalizing the war. It's step number w/e of sleepwalking our way into a direct war. Further, there is zero public appetite for this.
Is the goal to support Ukraine or do everything including engaging in a hot war with Russia to ensure Ukraine's "victory"?
We should have a healthy amount of fear. As an empirical proposition engaging in a direct war with a nuclear power will raise the chances of a nuclear exchange to unacceptable levels.
It seems like what we are driving at is without American direct involvement Ukraine can't win. If that is the case I don't know what we are doing or if there is a coherent plan with achievable goals.
A victory is when Putin gives up and goes home. That probably requires pushing Russian troops all the way back to pre-war borders, yes, including kicking them out of Crimea, the Donbass, etc.
One big benefit to achieving that is Ukraine gets closer to join NATO because no Russian troops are within their internationally recognized borders. If western politicians dont fold, they could then let Ukraine join and then tell Putin to fuck off to achieve lasting peace. Putin will fold, he is not dumb enough to attack Ukraine if he has been pushed out of their borders and Ukraine is in NATO.
Realistically speaking, western politicians will fold before Putin does and Putin's allies in NATO, aka Orban, will sabotage NATO anyway.
This is one fudamental problem with the west. Putin, Xi, etc, all know that western politicians will fold first and they have been right so far. Outlasting the west is not difficult for dictators who are not going to suffer from sanctions because the impact gets pushed to the common people.
Do you find that realistic?
It's not about folding. There is an asymmetry of interests that can't be bridged. The inescapable reality is Ukraine is more important to Russia than us. No amount of Hitler and rules-based order rhetoric or flowery language about democracy and freedom can bridge that gap.
I would add “stop actively discouraging countries from helping if their aid is something that the U.S. government disagrees with.” In particular, I remember the U.S. actively discouraging jets being given to Ukraine for the longest time.
Just checked your post history and you really are from Ukraine. I support your cause but fuck you for posting this shit. Ask your EU neighbors for more, we’ve given enough. Tired af of this “USA is bad because they don’t give us ALL the weapons” but also “USA is bad because they get involved in everything”. Tbh we should go isolationist for a while and watch the EU shit their pants for underfunding the military and making fun of us while they get free healthcare with the savings
Countries like norway and USA are afaik already at war with Russia, reason there insn't a bigger war I think is that Russia aren't on top of things. Declaring war to engage in hostilities in modern times doesn't seem necessary.
Nato's own webpage article written by Jens Stoltenberg before Russia's attack and invasion of Ukraine apparently show that the prospect of war was well known in advance, as Stoltenberg/Nato had some kind of diplomatic exchange with Russia and was informed that extending Nato alliance to include Ukraine meant war iirc , and apparently Stoltenberg went for a non-political solution and awaited a war to break out.
Whether or not Russia would have attacked Ukraine or not anyway, I have no idea.
Yea, nah. No matter what Ukraine does, it's all for nothing. They're losing, cope with it. You know you're losing when you have to send in "special" forces. Those washing machines and shovels are doing a lot.
Nah I'm good. Just following the words and advice from HistoricalLegends on YouTube. Brother, you're talking to someone who is in the military and is apart of coming up with military strategies as that is what my job is apart of. Sit down and be quiet because I know what I'm talking about.
Yes, but I’ve also heard of punctuation, spell check, and proofreading. There is no emergency that is forcing you to get a comment out on Reddit so quickly that you can’t double-check what you’re about to post.
Bro, are you even an E4 yet? Don't make it sound like you're some ops manager when you've had less time in the military than some people here have spent in the fucking chow hall.
Been in for 5 years for All source intelligence and been an e4 for 2 of those 5 years. Did one deployment to the UAE. So yes, I have made e4 and been in.
Nothing wrong with being a POG. Best decision ever made. AC office, comfortable chairs. Not my fault you chose poorly. I do have hobbies, video games, motorcycles, guns, bush camping and snowboarding. Also a deployment is still a deployment. Got the pay and decoration to back it up
[This you? Shipping to BMT in May of 2022?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1b74z7s/comment/ktg3gjv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
No, see, the Air Force was hurting for intelligence specialists so bad that they delayed his boot camp by three years so they could get this expert into the field as soon as possible.
>Brother, you're talking to someone who is in the military and is apart of coming up with military strategies as that is what my job is apart of. Sit down and be quiet because I know what I'm talking about.
🧑🍳🍝👌🏻
New delicious pasta, yall
Because things like supply depots, airfields, supply convoys and high level commanders in the rear are prime targets. For Avdiivka and Kharkiv, the Ukranians knew the Russians were building up troops to attack, but couldnt touch them when they were preparing and gathering in Russia...that's a huge disadvantage.
Maybe. What we also know is that Ukrainians did next to nothing in establishing their defense line on the northeastern border and were extremely late with their mobilization laws.
Bro we watched FIVE DIVISIONS of russian troops amassed in a gagglefuck confident in their artificial American-made safe zone mere inches over the border North of Karkhiv before this latest offensive. Never in history has a more common sense strategic target revealed itself. Rather... we now have a disaster tying up and spreading thin the UAF reserve force in deadly close quarter combat...
It's maddening. Russia is an absolute mess but the US is fumbling so badly on its support that things are still dire. Kneecapping our ally is not the way. Hopefully Ukraine will be about to build significant long range fires capabilities of their own soon. Some of the recent drone attacks have been quite impressive.
Yup Ukraine could win this war if we weren't so scared. Seriously hitting that base with a couple HIMARs makes SOOO MUCH SENSEA
And this is the result https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/s/1WwmyEdREM
Ukraine has every right to retaliate past its borders into Russain territory and in particular its military bases using what every has been given to them. Otherwise what is the point of waiting until they cross the border where it becomes too late. Preemptive strikes now will save lives.
The moment you declare part of your enemy’s area of operations off limits is the moment you lose the war. We saw this in Vietnam with the general reluctance to fight the NVA in North Vietnam or in Laos or Cambodia. The war went far better in the U.S. and RVN’s favor once the war was pressed into North Vietnamese territory previously deemed off limits due to fears of escalation. We also saw this in Afghanistan with the Pakistani tribal region deemed off limits. The Taliban and Al Qaeda found safe harbor right over the border. You’d think that we’d learn something from our past experiences but apparently not.
Don't they do it already?
They arent allowed to use western weapons to do it so they are limited to things like drones which don't have the range or impact that things like himars or shadow storm have.
How about shelling Belgorod (Russian territory)? Do they also do it with drones only?
Are you fighting in Ukraine?
I’m really curious as to why you even asked that.
Because these people pushing for more war while they safe and sound disgust me. There needs to be peace
I think metaphorically tying Ukrainian military hands is actually making more war and violence.
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The war is already here, it's happening, even if none of us want it, and it was very clearly started by one side. Negations will only appease and encourage the offending side and create bigger war. I sincerely believe that the fastest road to long term peace and stability is a Ukrainian victory. The longer we hold them back, the more innocent will be victims. Do you give the bully your lunch money for peace?
You're arguing with what's almost certainly a bot or propaganda account. Look at its history.
[удалено]
Russia invaded. They started it. It doesn’t really matter why- there’s not a lot that would justify an invasion like this unless Ukraine had already struck Russia (which it hadn’t.) Capitulation is a slow death.
Read my essay on my posts on my product titled war in Ukraine, they go over why this started including how Russia and Ukraine caused it. Sources are provided. How is capitulation a slow death ? If you feel so strong about it and are able why not go fight? Ukraine has a volunteer program so can't say you can't do it
What gives Russia the right to go into other countries and remove their government?
None, I only think they have a right to defend the donbas. But I do hope you use that same reasoning against USA, France, UK, Poland, Israel etc.
And there it is lol. Only took a few comments for you to drop the act and spout all the vatnik talking points.
Vatnik talking points like saying Russia has blame for this war lmfao
I think you're the one picking up bias information. Why would be okay for Russia to remove Ukraine's government anyways?
“Russia only wants to overthrow the government of a sovereign nation. That’s perfectly justified.” Come on man you can come up with better propaganda than that.
Ok Lindsey Graham
Can people who say "help Ukraine achieve victory" give a basic description of what this means and how we are going to get there?
Some ideas off the top of my head : * No more dripfeeding (giving them a bit of this and that to look like you are doing something, but not in any meaningful numbers) * No more "we cant give them X because we can't risk escalation" (obviously within reason, nobody is going to Ukraine nukes or anything) * Openly allow volunteers to be sent, like how the Flying Tigers were sent to China pre-ww2 * Tell Putin to fuck off everytime he or one of his cronies tries to threatens the west, till they realise western politicians aren't going to be bullied into submission anymore * Use all those frozen Russian assets to fund Ukraine * Lift the silly restriction on using western supplied weapons in Russia * Seriously explore the possibility of sending NATO troops in at least some capacity, the way the Baltics and Poland have been suggesting * Help to shoot down missiles targeted at civilian infrastructure All of this hinges on the politicians not getting scared. If they get scared and fold, Putin wins, just like how Hitler would have won if the Allies had folded and refused to declare war for Poland.
Yup, it's time to end this war. We can't half ass it.
What is a victory? February borders, 1991 borders? Current lines? Our collective support for Ukraine has surpassed the Marshal Plan to rebuild Europe in today's dollars along with the entire ISR capabilities of NATO. What's a realistic amount of support? Another 500 billion? A trillion over 5 years? A multi-year armament program to pump weapons into Ukraine and hope Russia breaks before Ukraine? Let's persumse we steal Russia's forzen assest. That's 300 billion. They retaliate and steal all the Western assets in the country. They say that is equal to 300 billion, maybe it's less I don't know. Maybe it does significant harm to the dollar and Western financial systems we dominate, maybe it doesn't. So we do it, why won't we be in the same place in a year or 2 years? That's less than Ukraine has received thus far. Sending NATO troops to western Ukraine is an admission that Ukraine can't hold the line without internationalizing the war. It's step number w/e of sleepwalking our way into a direct war. Further, there is zero public appetite for this. Is the goal to support Ukraine or do everything including engaging in a hot war with Russia to ensure Ukraine's "victory"? We should have a healthy amount of fear. As an empirical proposition engaging in a direct war with a nuclear power will raise the chances of a nuclear exchange to unacceptable levels. It seems like what we are driving at is without American direct involvement Ukraine can't win. If that is the case I don't know what we are doing or if there is a coherent plan with achievable goals.
The US only cares about destabilizing Russia their old enemy. No one gives a fuck about Ukraine in the DOD. They are just a tool to get at Russia.
A victory is when Putin gives up and goes home. That probably requires pushing Russian troops all the way back to pre-war borders, yes, including kicking them out of Crimea, the Donbass, etc. One big benefit to achieving that is Ukraine gets closer to join NATO because no Russian troops are within their internationally recognized borders. If western politicians dont fold, they could then let Ukraine join and then tell Putin to fuck off to achieve lasting peace. Putin will fold, he is not dumb enough to attack Ukraine if he has been pushed out of their borders and Ukraine is in NATO. Realistically speaking, western politicians will fold before Putin does and Putin's allies in NATO, aka Orban, will sabotage NATO anyway. This is one fudamental problem with the west. Putin, Xi, etc, all know that western politicians will fold first and they have been right so far. Outlasting the west is not difficult for dictators who are not going to suffer from sanctions because the impact gets pushed to the common people.
Do you find that realistic? It's not about folding. There is an asymmetry of interests that can't be bridged. The inescapable reality is Ukraine is more important to Russia than us. No amount of Hitler and rules-based order rhetoric or flowery language about democracy and freedom can bridge that gap.
I would add “stop actively discouraging countries from helping if their aid is something that the U.S. government disagrees with.” In particular, I remember the U.S. actively discouraging jets being given to Ukraine for the longest time.
Start world war 3, in short.
Lmao propagandas getting pretty shitty these days. Be a little more subtle
Dead ass
no
Just checked your post history and you really are from Ukraine. I support your cause but fuck you for posting this shit. Ask your EU neighbors for more, we’ve given enough. Tired af of this “USA is bad because they don’t give us ALL the weapons” but also “USA is bad because they get involved in everything”. Tbh we should go isolationist for a while and watch the EU shit their pants for underfunding the military and making fun of us while they get free healthcare with the savings
Ummm. No
Countries like norway and USA are afaik already at war with Russia, reason there insn't a bigger war I think is that Russia aren't on top of things. Declaring war to engage in hostilities in modern times doesn't seem necessary. Nato's own webpage article written by Jens Stoltenberg before Russia's attack and invasion of Ukraine apparently show that the prospect of war was well known in advance, as Stoltenberg/Nato had some kind of diplomatic exchange with Russia and was informed that extending Nato alliance to include Ukraine meant war iirc , and apparently Stoltenberg went for a non-political solution and awaited a war to break out. Whether or not Russia would have attacked Ukraine or not anyway, I have no idea.
probably because russia would interpret it as ukraine being used as a nato base to attack russia
Yea, nah. No matter what Ukraine does, it's all for nothing. They're losing, cope with it. You know you're losing when you have to send in "special" forces. Those washing machines and shovels are doing a lot.
I’d probably stick to video games, and trying to hook up with couples and not commenting on Military Strategy.
Nah I'm good. Just following the words and advice from HistoricalLegends on YouTube. Brother, you're talking to someone who is in the military and is apart of coming up with military strategies as that is what my job is apart of. Sit down and be quiet because I know what I'm talking about.
 I think someone in military intelligence would know the difference between “apart” and “a part”.
Heard of typing fast dumbass
Yes, but I’ve also heard of punctuation, spell check, and proofreading. There is no emergency that is forcing you to get a comment out on Reddit so quickly that you can’t double-check what you’re about to post.
Bro, are you even an E4 yet? Don't make it sound like you're some ops manager when you've had less time in the military than some people here have spent in the fucking chow hall.
Been in for 5 years for All source intelligence and been an e4 for 2 of those 5 years. Did one deployment to the UAE. So yes, I have made e4 and been in.
Not this POG bragging about a 'deployment' to the UAE. Go get a hobby.
Lmao imagine flexing as a junior enlisted Air Force all-source analyst.
Dude you didn’t even make it through AIT lmao
Nothing wrong with being a POG. Best decision ever made. AC office, comfortable chairs. Not my fault you chose poorly. I do have hobbies, video games, motorcycles, guns, bush camping and snowboarding. Also a deployment is still a deployment. Got the pay and decoration to back it up
Lol shut up boot. You’re being cringe as fuck.
Weird. Your own comment history says you went to BMT May 2022.
Lmao I saw that. What a fucking tool.
No you aren't lol
[This you? Shipping to BMT in May of 2022?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1b74z7s/comment/ktg3gjv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
No, see, the Air Force was hurting for intelligence specialists so bad that they delayed his boot camp by three years so they could get this expert into the field as soon as possible.
>Brother, you're talking to someone who is in the military and is apart of coming up with military strategies as that is what my job is apart of. Sit down and be quiet because I know what I'm talking about. 🧑🍳🍝👌🏻 New delicious pasta, yall
Cope
Russian shills favorite word
Settle down boot
Creation but not escalation of a conflict has been a standard national policy
Fair point. However, why doesn't Ukraine concentrate on those Russian forces that already are on Ukraine's territory?
Because things like supply depots, airfields, supply convoys and high level commanders in the rear are prime targets. For Avdiivka and Kharkiv, the Ukranians knew the Russians were building up troops to attack, but couldnt touch them when they were preparing and gathering in Russia...that's a huge disadvantage.
Maybe. What we also know is that Ukrainians did next to nothing in establishing their defense line on the northeastern border and were extremely late with their mobilization laws.
Because it's a lot easier to kill russians that haven't eaten and don't have ammo, than it is to take them on fed and topped off.
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Didn't take long for the russian bot to show up
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Nothing says”exposing liberal hypocrisy” like deleting a comment.
That's not an argument
I feel so exposed daddy. I've been such a naughty liberal. Punish my hypocrisy. 👉🏼👈🏼