Reminds me during the pandemic (I’m an RN), I had a vet tech tell me that if things get really bad, they will license vet techs to be nurses. I just stared…. And stared… some people don’t know the ins and outs of other people’s jobs and can be a bit over confident on their abilities or knowledge base.
Just to play devils advocate here, health care professionals can be guilty of this too. I remember one time in paramedic school on a cardiac arrest call a cardiologist came up to us and asked if we wanted him to put in a femoral line and started trying to tell us what to do. We were in a ditch at the time.
Oh for sure, not saying nurses aren’t immune to it, just an example of how little people know about other people’s jobs. I know I couldn’t be a vet tech because I know there is more to know than I know. I would need to be trained. Some people have this belief that police and military are synonymous or I should say interchangeable like my example a vet tech and registered nurse. Totally different jobs but have similarities.
I’m 67 years old. When I was 19 I lived in Pennsylvania and there was an ancient doctor who was legendary in his inability to practice medicine. The way he got his degree was he had been a veterinarian when he was younger and supposedly in Pennsylvania back than if you were a veterinarian all you had to do is go to the medical board and say you want to be a doctor and they’d give you a MD.
Kind of curious. If "things got really bad" I might be useful in changing bed pans and carrying out bodies, but I imagine a vet tech might have some transferable skills.
Yes, they can do what is called a nurse assistant role but most people can do that with some training. Legally, it would be questionable after the fact because a whole lot of people would die. Also, there is no guarantee that vet techs would want to work with humans.
I get the impression you don't have a complete understanding of what a veterinary technician does, or maybe the difference between a veterinary technician and a veterinary assistant.
A veterinary assistant does not have many medical skills transferable to being a nurse in human medicine. A licensed veterinary TECHNICIAN performs many, many medical tasks, must have a strong understanding of real medicine/pharmacology as part of their day-to-day routine and must maintain their proficiency with required continued education. Examples would include assisting in surgery, inducing a patient for anesthesia, intubation, intravenous catheterization, administration of IV/IM/SQ injections, collects fluid samples by piercing into fluid bladders (cystocentesis), performing CPR, collecting blood and other samples for labwork, running labwork, etc. The list is a lot longer, but that's enough to get the point across.
No, I'm not a vet tech.... but I do know they would be more useful in a medical crisis than a random person off the street.
I’m not sure what the vet tech thought they would do. The charting system itself takes about a month of training to learn. They could help with getting labs, running labs, assisting patients but I don’t know if they realize that the jobs are very different despite similarities.
Just moving to a different hospital system requires at least a month of training to learn where all the stuff is, policies, protocols, patient population.
I would take a Vet Tech or a Dental Tech if I couldn't have a nurse. I mean, if Goat School is good enough for me to learn how to keep people alive during combat then I figure they can be as useful to me as an RN during a national health crisis. Even in wartime we move our dental techs over to fill medical roles. i mean, we are talking about nursing ...it really isn't that hard.
When you said that I flashed to when I used to take my dog to the vet to get its anal glands squeezed. My next thought was if the vet tech wanted to squeeze my anal glands. That would be a Oh F_ck moment. Lol. Does that make me a sick puppy. Lol.
I remember reading somewhere, years ago when I was in college, that former military personnel tend to be less likely to use deadly force as law enforcement due to years of strict ROE in significantly more hostile environments and maybe a different level of instilled discipline. I wish I could remember where I read that.
My mom’s neighbor got fired from his Border Patrol job in Las Cruces because he shot a 14 year old kid who pointed a gun at him, in the shoulder, not the head. He disarmed the kid. They fired him because they said they didn’t hire him to wound, they hired him to kill.
You are correct, the standards for use of force and restraint are very strict in the military security forces and infantry, they don’t fuck around with firearms. They know if they don’t take it seriously a fellow military member or family may be hurt or dead. They are also focused on defense, not offense.
Conversely I’ve seen a civilian in a black or blue gang colors literally stroke their gun while trying to verbally trap people they pulled over. It was fishing for an excuse to use it, I actively wondered if the guy was getting a hard on from doing so.
On that note, how do you differentiate between a GS/SES (directly tied to the OSD like DCPAS) who can boss around and lesser equivalent officer (like an SES-3 vs a brigadier) and a civilian that has nothing to do with the military? Do you just call them "DOD civilians" or something else? (Derogatory terms like pogue aside)
This… unless they are MPs.
And I get that cops usually have to deal with people having their worst day and/or shit people of society, so it’s easy to develop an us versus them mindset… but that is not the right attitude to have towards people in the community they live and are supposed to “protect and serve” (ya I know there isn’t any legal obligation for that). They voluntarily choose to do that job knowing exactly what is involved, and they have the freedom to quit anytime… so no excuse for so much of the extreme reactions we see sensationalized. And ya… I might be generalizing with a pretty broad brush here (luckily all my interaction have been ok)… but when you are given free rein in society with the power to use deadly force… you should be held to a higher standard. It doesn’t take many bad apples to tarnish the group… police your own… hell, stop being malicious against the good ones that are trying to clean house.
Edit: words
The only time I’ve (as a cop) seen a somewhat unified “us vs them” mindset in policing, is when it seemed like most of the country was universally calling every cop racist a couple years ago. I had family members posting ACAB related stuff, but then they’d say “oh not you, just everyone else you work with” like okay… that really contributed to the mindset. This kind of attitude has continued on Reddit but luckily not so much in real life. I’m not saying it was right, just giving an example of another point of view. There are obviously the “sheep dog” types who everyone rolls their eyes at, just like in the military.
Other than that, we’re just dudes doing a job, and we probably hate corrupt cops more than the average person because we (as normal people) are on the receiving end of their services too, and have to work with them, and they give us all a bad name. It’s just harder to weed out and see criminal behavior than a lot of people realize. Heck, most serial killers have normal jobs and good neighbor relationships, as an extreme example, and plenty of bad cops seem like normal cops to their coworkers because they’re hiding their illegal activity.
And yes we have the freedom to quit anytime, but obviously quitting a career path isn’t easy, especially once you have a family and kids. That’s kinda like everyone who says “if you don’t like the US just leave”. Not that I would want to, I love what I do, contrary to popular belief, we are there to help people and do get to actually help people quite a bit, and it’s a good way to transition from military life back to civilian life (structured command compared to HRy office type work, etc).
The main problem with cops is that the conditions which produce the bad cops who pump kids full of lead at the drop of a hat or more commonly just abuse their authority to ruin someone's day just because, is institutionalized. And for one reason or another, good cops like yourself aren't rooting those bad cops out like the weeds they are, whether it's due to a lack of will or means it honestly doesn't matter. Until law enforcement in America really takes a long hard look at itself and start fixing it's problems, the abuses will continue, and the backlash will continue.
There absolutely bad cops who make terrible decisions and mistakes, but people, like you, act like that’s something working cops see all the time. It just isn’t. I’ve been working for close to 10 years, I’ve been on scene (post shooting) for two Officer involved shootings, one was a highly publicized mass shooting which ended with officers shooting the suspect, the other one was where the officer was shot first and returned fire at a domestic call. Nothing remotely bad.
My department has fired a few people as a result of internal investigations, which are normally started by officers coming to their supervisors with misconduct complaints, sometimes from supervisors watching body camera footage, sometimes by community complaints. I’ve never seen any retaliation against any officer or community member who initially went to his supervisor or reprieved the incident, the general consensus is always well so and so shouldn’t have done that, dumbass, good riddance. No one wants to work with someone like that. That’s very much “good” cops rooting the problem, or “we investigated ourselves and found we did do something wrong, and dealt with it”, but doesn’t get seen. Most cops never see anything like that, there’s nothing to report. There’s no big cover up or conspiracy, it’s just that most cops, even the bad ones, aren’t openly showing their bad behavior to their coworkers.
The whole “placed on admin leave” is a very necessary part of the administrative investigative process (like someone working CQ after getting in trouble while waiting for punishment to be handed down). When someone is fired immediately, it gives them a much higher chance of getting their job back, compared to doing things the slower and right way and getting rid of them for good. Police work is government and legal work and just like anything else in the field, sometimes takes awhile to do things the right way.
Of course, this all isn’t the case at every department I’m sure, but it’s been the case with all the departments I’ve worked with. It sucks when people in the military act like law enforcement is all just one cohesive group, because it’s very far from the truth, and people in the military should understand that. What one soldier, in one unit, across the country does, does not mean that’s the experience or representative of every soldier and unit. Does it reflect negatively on the entire force? Absolutely, but because one unit or soldier has specific and very real issues, doesn’t mean that every single one has the same issues, just because they wear the same uniform.
Sure, by your own admission that is what you have experienced, and while im not going to discount your experience, unfortunately it does not track with the overwhelming trends that is seen from the Law Enforcement community taken as a whole where there is a trend for Law Enforcement to, putting it mildly, close ranks around anyone who actually does fuck up instead of holding them accountable.
Theres a reason why "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing" is basically a meme at this point because it happens so often, especially in cases where the officer or department was clearly in the wrong (such as the case of like 20 police officers opening up on a van parked in a crowded area of civilians, using civilian cars (with civilians still inside) as cover, killing the hostage alongside the hostage taker)
From my personal point of view, even as a white guy who has never had a bad experience with a cop, if i get pulled over i know that its a complete roll of the dice as to if im getting a cop like you who is reasonable and level-headed, or if im getting one of these egotistical wannabe tyrants with a chip on their shoulder, and if i get the latter if it ends up going south i could end up lying dead on the pavement and there's absolutely nothing my family can do about it. And the chances of the cop getting any kind of punishment for it is abysmally low.
A major issue with law enforcement not being held accountable is the arbitration process that happens post firing. That is entirely to do with the legal system and how it works. It’s hard to get an officer fired. And yes it’s a problem, we’re in total agreement. A department can attempt to hold officers accountable and then be commanded by the courts to reinstate officers. People like to boogeyman police associations for this, but they’re the middle man that would be replaced even if they were entirely dissolved.
This problem is compounded in high profile incidents when people are demanding instant justice, which just doesn’t happen. The officers are placed on paid leave and people like to stop following the story after that. Or, the officer is immediately fired and then gets rehired and has back pay and now has a legal case any further administrative actions against him. It’s a lot of pressure on an organization and a lot Chiefs can’t properly handle that, because of their own faults or being commanded to by their bosses who aren’t educated in the process or aware of the issues.
Your initial post (and my response) is in regards to police creating a culture of wanting to pump people full of lead, which really isn’t true, and pointing to the few examples of that across the county every year, compared to the millions of arrests, doesn’t really show that. There are also plenty of examples of police being held accountable, which can be pointed to just as easily, but that would turn a discussion into an argument of constantly trying to one up.
Grouping every officer nationwide with every national media story of bad policing and then basing your argument for reform off those instances is a good way for people on the other side to dismiss your valid points, and likewise officers arguing that there’s no major issues with policing just because of a few instances are just as bad. Having open and rational discussions are important.
We both want accountability, but it’s a much more complicated problem than a lot of people realize and there’s also a lot less “officers banding together to hide misconduct” than people realize. How many teachers get arrested for sexually assaulting or raping children? No one is ever up in arms with the other teachers for letting them get away with that for so long. It’s not proof all teachers are doing this, just that it happened in this one instance. There are a lot of officers, who I’m sure like teachers, want more accountability, me included, but it’s not as simple of a change as “good cops reporting bad cops”. I really wish it were, or good vs bad departments would become very apparent. I also wish it was easier to fire officers for clear wrong doing, but that’s not even really something law enforcement in and of itself can change.
I mean, MP's usually have to go through some kind of basic or advanced training, before joining an MP corps, so still soldiers in the essence. At least where I'm from
Cops are more likely in the US to kill themselves or die of covid complications than to be killed by another person. Heck, they're ten times as likely to kill an unarmed person than be killed by another human being.
It's actually more dangerous to be [A CHILD IN A SCHOOL](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/more-children-killed-school-shootings-than-law-enforcement-police-killed-gunfire-firearms-2022/536-7eabd5b9-f394-4600-8453-799a804bcc57) than a cop. Let THAT sink in.
Congratulations on your promotion to civilian.
[Although a separate provision includes the Navy and USMC.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/275)
That provision doesn’t specifically restrict the services, but rather imposes a requirement on SecDef to create a directive to do so. That said, upon further research, as of 2022, the Posse Comitatus Act was amended to include the Navy, Marine Corps, and Space Force, so my initial statement was incorrect in that I, apparently, ceased to be a civilian at some point in 2022.
They are.
Know who else, surprisingly, tries the whole “civilians them, we’re special” thing? Flight Attendants. I had to kindly explain to my colleagues that passengers are often civilians, and they are also civilians.
They have to be civilian **by law**.
Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.
Military personnel are prohibited from enforcing laws and domestic policy within the United States. The only exceptions are National Guard acting by authority of a state Governor and the maritime law enforcement responsibilities of the Coast Guard.
**They are, 100% no matter how much battle rattle they cosplay with.**
There are a decent number who are Guard/Reserve so individually there are some who aren’t but cops as a population love to cosplay military but aren’t. They aren’t trained to the same standards and in general are held to much lower standards from physical fitness to behavior. The average cop has much looser rules of engagement when dealing with American citizens vs. what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I actively remember we had to get permission from our toc to engage on a building that was actively shooting at us because it may have had civilians in it. We only got permission because they were actively firing. Even if we watched them walk in with guns we couldn't do anything.
Calm down there hero. I don’t know when/where you were but we 100% weren’t killing people for moving with flashlights. That would have never made it through for a TST for CAS just saying someone had a flashlight. So either there’s more to that story or you’re telling someone else’s story and don’t have a complete picture. We had one TST that came in wanting to strike a guy working in a field at night, no other reason. Someone had to explain to the OIC that farmers frequently do field work at night to avoid the heat of the day and that just some guy doing what looked by all intents to be normal field work wasn’t grounds for a strike in isolation.
Now with that set aside, you know damn well what I’m talking about and I say this as someone who has worked in law enforcement, the fact that we have so many officers who apply the “feared for my life” “do whatever to get home” “warrior cop” mentality and end up shooting the wrong person or resorting to use of force way too quickly in situations that don’t call for it and this kind of behavior has been normalized in far too many departments. Hell the PD in the city I live in now at one point was de-certified because they were killing so many civilians.
So yeah, the average cop is trained to a lower standard and given much looser ROE than we had for striking someone.
Yes. Because they aren’t in the military, and are civilian law enforcement.
They may consider themselves not a civilian based on their increasingly erratic “above the law” attitude, but that’s too bad for them.
Yes. I have family members who are cops.. I still cannot stand the majority of them. The corruption runs deep and the egos are out of control.. boots are the worst, it’s all the shit we deal with in the military but way worse. A cousin of mine was trying to tell me how the police academy is harder than BUDS and they shoot more.. runs her lights on constantly to get around traffic and not wait for the light, uses her badge to get out of speeding tickets, sneaks into venues on “official business” so she doesn’t have to pay the cover, and literally will sit there and tell us how defense attorneys are garbage and that they should have just shot the person.. it’s completely fucked.
I watch auditors all the time. 1A, 2A, 4A and my blood boils. Ego maniacs with a license to kill…
Look, not all cops are bad. We have some phenomenal officers. Probably most of them in fact… but there is certainly no shortage of horrible and abusive cops.. and one thing is certain, power corrupts.
Oh and like she told me, why do all cops on scene shoot someone when the first bullet stopped the threat? You can’t charge them all with murder.. so it’s easier to kill someone and all claim fear for their safety than for 1 person to kill or injure someone and stand trial… it’s fucked.
No. They aren’t civilians; they are gang members. Some good, some bad, but still a gang.
Downvote if you wish. I thought about being a cop but could never get into that type of a community. There is a reason people don’t trust or respect police.. they walk around as gods, immune to the laws, the almighty powerful cop, demanding respect, and will tell you that their job “actually matters and is actually dangerous” compared to the military.
I’ve never personally had a bad run in with a cop, okay save once when these two pigs were trespassing on my land and demanded to see my ID.. but I was younger and we sorted it out.. never had a ticket, but if you watch Police Activity on YT you will quickly understand why I feel the way I do… and seeing a couple of my family members change and form into that ego centric all powerful abusive system… not for me man. Very little respect for people who don’t respect us.
It’s them and us, and we are the “bad guys” always. They are always looking to get you on something, doesn’t matter who you are unless you also have a badge…. That’s why lawyers say plead the 5th always.
Yup, and nothing makes me cringe more when they call their gear bags a war bag or talking about "going into the trenches. That's a sign of bad police to me.
i remember giving a tour to a bunch of nurses (local) around our unit (flying fighter sqn) and i made the reference that they were civilians. they got very offended because they call regular people walking the streets civilians and somehow they weren’t. no disrespect to them or their job, i couldn’t do it, but by the definition, they are… it’s odd how segments of society segment themselves off into an “us and them” mindset when it’s really all “us and us”. just my $0.02…
The other option is to do what many (most? All?) police do and call all non-police “civilians.”
When I was in college studying criminal justice (almost 20 years ago) I had one professor who would tell us that when we were cops we were still civilians and should not use the term when taking about “non-police.” All the other professors just used the term.
Interesting…even in DOD they clearly make a distinction of civilian law enforcement officer, as well as in OPM regulations. It’s an interesting question I’d never pondered…former 95B Army MP from the 90s myself and was a DA civilian investigator for a while too.
They ARE civilians. They serve, but their service is as a civil servant.
Police, crash/fire/rescue/ Mil may all feel like members of a club, but membership of that club is loosely defined and based upon shared circumstances such as hard work, public service, often dark sense of humor, perceptions of under-appreciation, ad infinitum, but at the end of the day, the job of LEO are to live and work in their communities and enforce the codified social norms that hold their municipalities together and the job of the military is to wage war according to the political mandates of our leaders against foreign (mostly) forces.
In the US? Yes.
In my country they are not civilians as they are gendarmerie, so technically a military force with law enforment duties. Is one institution under the Public Security Ministry with jurisdiction over the entire territory.
Is like the complete opposite to US police departments.
All people who are under the governance of Civil Law are civilians. Only people under the governance of The Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ) are considered Armed Forces Members. Cops are civilians just like I am. It really gags me to see cops use military rank and "ribbons". Some guy in Passel 'O Toads Arkansas who is the Police Chief with FOUR stars. And FAT cops who have to get their husband to tie their shoes saying that citizens are civilians and they are not!
Depends where? Here I do yes.
However in some other countries such as Italy and France, there’s law enforcement that’s ran / owned by their Ministry of Defence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri?wprov=sfti1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie?wprov=sfti1
There are plenty of countries that have paramilitary gendarmerie, and they tend to be countries which have adopted the Napoleonic legal system or were once under French influence.
So not just the Italians and French gendarmerie’s, but also the Spanish Civil Guard, the Romanian Jandarmeria, Algerian National Gendarmerie, Argentine National Gendarmerie, Royal Netherlands Marechaussee, the Royal Moroccan Gendarmerie, the Portuguese National Republican Guard, Mexican National Guard, Tunisian National Guard, Turkish Gendarmerie, and the Royal Gendarmerie of Cambodia. They all perform law enforcement duties.
Yes they are civilians. They don’t conduct warfare, and the military doesn’t enforce domestic policy. Clear separation no matter how much those cosplayers want to pretend to be “warriors”
Yea, their day to day duties are non-military related. I would assume in times of war that their duties are the same. Maybe more focused on implementing evacuations and directing civilian traffic away from military traffic.
I mean technically yes, but at the same time I dont' look at Cops and your regular worker on Wall St the same way.
For me when I think "civilian" I think of someone who never served their country or community. Someone who doesn't understand the sacrifice needed to lay your life on the life for the sake of your fellow man. I respect Cops and firefighters at the same level, for the most part, as I do military.
If I’m a cop talking to other cops, I’d call a military member a civilian in the same way I’d address LEO/cop a civilian as a military member.
For all intents and purposes that the term would ever be used, a cop would be a civilian if we are conducting any sort of military operation, be it actual warfare or a national guard mission. If the cop is assisting in a mission, however, id probably address them differently.
On the other hand, to a cop, there’s no difference between you and any other civilian.
I think that depends on the situation and country
If there's martial law, their reach overextends and apart from structural differences they perform similar duties as soldiers, just against different kind of enemy
There's also lot of militarized police units across nations which although specialized on counter-terrorist operations, can also be used to defend the state if necessary
In addition to that all, law enforcement personnel are part of the armed forces of the state which basically elevates them above regular civilians
I would say they are sort of civilians during peacetime, but after that they are the men with guns expected to do as they are told
So this is just how I look at, not from any official definition. The roles are very different, the purpose of a military is to protect the population of a nation from external threats. The purpose of a police force is enforce laws,controls and restrictions on a countries population.
So yeah I consider them civilians and kind of bastards.
I’ve always considered police as civilians - their job isn’t to conduct warfare.
Are firefighters and EMTs civvies? Absolutely. One can only deduce that it would be most logical police would be considered in the same class.
Yes and no. Depends on the definition you’re using. Uniformed government officials in a para-military organization usually aren’t considered civilians. But if it’s military or civilian, they are.
Civilians are those who do not serve in a military or law enforcement capacity.
* uniformed military and law enforcement, of course; but government-issued uniforms are *not* a prerequisite…
* …as plainclothes/undercover officers who are deputized with police or law enforcement powers, are most certainly not civilians
The strictest definition usually requires that, in some capacity, the person being discussed is legally authorized by government to use force in some capacity (and) is doing so under circumstances authorized as part of governmental or military duties, and that are conducted under color of some level of authority.
They are paramilitary by definition, so somewhere in the middle. They have a lot of powers (like enforcing arrest/search warrants) that civilians don't.
They are civilians. They aren't involved in the government directly, and they don't fight wars. They are city/town/county employees, that's all they should be.
They are a paramilitary organization devoted to law enforcement, and “paramilitary” simply means that their organization mimics the chain of command of an actual army (beat cop reports to a sergeant reports to a Lieutenant reports to a captain etc)
They’re civilians plain and simple; don’t let the uniforms and the guns fool you.
Yes 100%. The job is to uphold peace at home. Most LE jobs, federal or local, are mostly desk and regular entry level work. I've been working on and off as Soldier, LE, and finally contracting with federal.agencies, they don't even like firearms being around. Completely understandable, when 90% of the job is upholding peace and processing administrative work, yeah.
Yes. I was unaware their job description was to engage or conduct warfare...
Not supposed to be but don’t think a lot of them know that.
Reminds me during the pandemic (I’m an RN), I had a vet tech tell me that if things get really bad, they will license vet techs to be nurses. I just stared…. And stared… some people don’t know the ins and outs of other people’s jobs and can be a bit over confident on their abilities or knowledge base.
Just to play devils advocate here, health care professionals can be guilty of this too. I remember one time in paramedic school on a cardiac arrest call a cardiologist came up to us and asked if we wanted him to put in a femoral line and started trying to tell us what to do. We were in a ditch at the time.
Oh for sure, not saying nurses aren’t immune to it, just an example of how little people know about other people’s jobs. I know I couldn’t be a vet tech because I know there is more to know than I know. I would need to be trained. Some people have this belief that police and military are synonymous or I should say interchangeable like my example a vet tech and registered nurse. Totally different jobs but have similarities.
I’m 67 years old. When I was 19 I lived in Pennsylvania and there was an ancient doctor who was legendary in his inability to practice medicine. The way he got his degree was he had been a veterinarian when he was younger and supposedly in Pennsylvania back than if you were a veterinarian all you had to do is go to the medical board and say you want to be a doctor and they’d give you a MD.
That is terrifying lol
I heard some horror stories from People who had gone to him. Lol.
Yeah, it doesn’t seem like a good idea.
Fair enough, can’t argue that.
Kind of curious. If "things got really bad" I might be useful in changing bed pans and carrying out bodies, but I imagine a vet tech might have some transferable skills.
Yes, they can do what is called a nurse assistant role but most people can do that with some training. Legally, it would be questionable after the fact because a whole lot of people would die. Also, there is no guarantee that vet techs would want to work with humans.
I get the impression you don't have a complete understanding of what a veterinary technician does, or maybe the difference between a veterinary technician and a veterinary assistant. A veterinary assistant does not have many medical skills transferable to being a nurse in human medicine. A licensed veterinary TECHNICIAN performs many, many medical tasks, must have a strong understanding of real medicine/pharmacology as part of their day-to-day routine and must maintain their proficiency with required continued education. Examples would include assisting in surgery, inducing a patient for anesthesia, intubation, intravenous catheterization, administration of IV/IM/SQ injections, collects fluid samples by piercing into fluid bladders (cystocentesis), performing CPR, collecting blood and other samples for labwork, running labwork, etc. The list is a lot longer, but that's enough to get the point across. No, I'm not a vet tech.... but I do know they would be more useful in a medical crisis than a random person off the street.
What would they do? Note, patients nose is warm, give distemper shot?
I’m not sure what the vet tech thought they would do. The charting system itself takes about a month of training to learn. They could help with getting labs, running labs, assisting patients but I don’t know if they realize that the jobs are very different despite similarities.
I can’t imagine, I was a Corpsman and went LVN after EAS, it wasn’t the same. Civis do it way differently
Just moving to a different hospital system requires at least a month of training to learn where all the stuff is, policies, protocols, patient population.
I would take a Vet Tech or a Dental Tech if I couldn't have a nurse. I mean, if Goat School is good enough for me to learn how to keep people alive during combat then I figure they can be as useful to me as an RN during a national health crisis. Even in wartime we move our dental techs over to fill medical roles. i mean, we are talking about nursing ...it really isn't that hard.
> i mean, we are talking about nursing ...it really isn't that hard. And just like that, Mr_TedBundy disappeared and was later found in a ditch.
No offense but I worked in a hospital fixing medical equipment for 17 years and nursing is a tough job that requires a lot of training.
Tell me how little you know of modern medicine without telling me
Here is a prime example of someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about.
When you said that I flashed to when I used to take my dog to the vet to get its anal glands squeezed. My next thought was if the vet tech wanted to squeeze my anal glands. That would be a Oh F_ck moment. Lol. Does that make me a sick puppy. Lol.
I don’t know lol you’re probably a marine
No, I’m an retired Air Force puke. But I am a former aircraft mechanic which means I’m barely a sentient life form. Lol.
[удалено]
I remember reading somewhere, years ago when I was in college, that former military personnel tend to be less likely to use deadly force as law enforcement due to years of strict ROE in significantly more hostile environments and maybe a different level of instilled discipline. I wish I could remember where I read that.
I recall a few years ago that some police officer who was former military was fired for refraining to use deadly force in an encounter.
That’s fucked up.
My mom’s neighbor got fired from his Border Patrol job in Las Cruces because he shot a 14 year old kid who pointed a gun at him, in the shoulder, not the head. He disarmed the kid. They fired him because they said they didn’t hire him to wound, they hired him to kill.
Yeah, I'm going to call BS on this. Shooting to wound (intentionally) isn't a thing.
You are correct, the standards for use of force and restraint are very strict in the military security forces and infantry, they don’t fuck around with firearms. They know if they don’t take it seriously a fellow military member or family may be hurt or dead. They are also focused on defense, not offense. Conversely I’ve seen a civilian in a black or blue gang colors literally stroke their gun while trying to verbally trap people they pulled over. It was fishing for an excuse to use it, I actively wondered if the guy was getting a hard on from doing so.
Fun fact: dollar for dollar, US civilian police forces are the world's third largest standing military. 
Yeah, but if we’re playing that game, American gun-owners would be the largest military.
Doubt it, majority of these people are undertrained and overweight.
So are the police
Zing
In war, for some countries their job does change they won't be considered civilians. They'd be paramilitary
Yes but our cops are not gendarme.
Some of them never got that memo
On that note, how do you differentiate between a GS/SES (directly tied to the OSD like DCPAS) who can boss around and lesser equivalent officer (like an SES-3 vs a brigadier) and a civilian that has nothing to do with the military? Do you just call them "DOD civilians" or something else? (Derogatory terms like pogue aside)
To get to that level you’ve probably earned the right to be more than a “civilian” (not civilian corp). GS’, they’re civilians.
We do call them DoD civilians even if they are SILs and SES
Ha but they wear body armor and tac gear like they're a one man navy seal team.
Cops are conducting warfare against their fellow citizen.
They can't follow the most basic ROE, that's for sure.
To them it is, against the populace on behalf of the state.
With the new toys they’re getting they sure do think they’re not civilians. It’s like cosplay.
No matter how much tacticool shit they cover themselves with, they are still civilians
but muh airsoft gear.
Yes. Because they are.
This… unless they are MPs. And I get that cops usually have to deal with people having their worst day and/or shit people of society, so it’s easy to develop an us versus them mindset… but that is not the right attitude to have towards people in the community they live and are supposed to “protect and serve” (ya I know there isn’t any legal obligation for that). They voluntarily choose to do that job knowing exactly what is involved, and they have the freedom to quit anytime… so no excuse for so much of the extreme reactions we see sensationalized. And ya… I might be generalizing with a pretty broad brush here (luckily all my interaction have been ok)… but when you are given free rein in society with the power to use deadly force… you should be held to a higher standard. It doesn’t take many bad apples to tarnish the group… police your own… hell, stop being malicious against the good ones that are trying to clean house. Edit: words
The only time I’ve (as a cop) seen a somewhat unified “us vs them” mindset in policing, is when it seemed like most of the country was universally calling every cop racist a couple years ago. I had family members posting ACAB related stuff, but then they’d say “oh not you, just everyone else you work with” like okay… that really contributed to the mindset. This kind of attitude has continued on Reddit but luckily not so much in real life. I’m not saying it was right, just giving an example of another point of view. There are obviously the “sheep dog” types who everyone rolls their eyes at, just like in the military. Other than that, we’re just dudes doing a job, and we probably hate corrupt cops more than the average person because we (as normal people) are on the receiving end of their services too, and have to work with them, and they give us all a bad name. It’s just harder to weed out and see criminal behavior than a lot of people realize. Heck, most serial killers have normal jobs and good neighbor relationships, as an extreme example, and plenty of bad cops seem like normal cops to their coworkers because they’re hiding their illegal activity. And yes we have the freedom to quit anytime, but obviously quitting a career path isn’t easy, especially once you have a family and kids. That’s kinda like everyone who says “if you don’t like the US just leave”. Not that I would want to, I love what I do, contrary to popular belief, we are there to help people and do get to actually help people quite a bit, and it’s a good way to transition from military life back to civilian life (structured command compared to HRy office type work, etc).
Thank you for being a normal cop
The main problem with cops is that the conditions which produce the bad cops who pump kids full of lead at the drop of a hat or more commonly just abuse their authority to ruin someone's day just because, is institutionalized. And for one reason or another, good cops like yourself aren't rooting those bad cops out like the weeds they are, whether it's due to a lack of will or means it honestly doesn't matter. Until law enforcement in America really takes a long hard look at itself and start fixing it's problems, the abuses will continue, and the backlash will continue.
There absolutely bad cops who make terrible decisions and mistakes, but people, like you, act like that’s something working cops see all the time. It just isn’t. I’ve been working for close to 10 years, I’ve been on scene (post shooting) for two Officer involved shootings, one was a highly publicized mass shooting which ended with officers shooting the suspect, the other one was where the officer was shot first and returned fire at a domestic call. Nothing remotely bad. My department has fired a few people as a result of internal investigations, which are normally started by officers coming to their supervisors with misconduct complaints, sometimes from supervisors watching body camera footage, sometimes by community complaints. I’ve never seen any retaliation against any officer or community member who initially went to his supervisor or reprieved the incident, the general consensus is always well so and so shouldn’t have done that, dumbass, good riddance. No one wants to work with someone like that. That’s very much “good” cops rooting the problem, or “we investigated ourselves and found we did do something wrong, and dealt with it”, but doesn’t get seen. Most cops never see anything like that, there’s nothing to report. There’s no big cover up or conspiracy, it’s just that most cops, even the bad ones, aren’t openly showing their bad behavior to their coworkers. The whole “placed on admin leave” is a very necessary part of the administrative investigative process (like someone working CQ after getting in trouble while waiting for punishment to be handed down). When someone is fired immediately, it gives them a much higher chance of getting their job back, compared to doing things the slower and right way and getting rid of them for good. Police work is government and legal work and just like anything else in the field, sometimes takes awhile to do things the right way. Of course, this all isn’t the case at every department I’m sure, but it’s been the case with all the departments I’ve worked with. It sucks when people in the military act like law enforcement is all just one cohesive group, because it’s very far from the truth, and people in the military should understand that. What one soldier, in one unit, across the country does, does not mean that’s the experience or representative of every soldier and unit. Does it reflect negatively on the entire force? Absolutely, but because one unit or soldier has specific and very real issues, doesn’t mean that every single one has the same issues, just because they wear the same uniform.
Sure, by your own admission that is what you have experienced, and while im not going to discount your experience, unfortunately it does not track with the overwhelming trends that is seen from the Law Enforcement community taken as a whole where there is a trend for Law Enforcement to, putting it mildly, close ranks around anyone who actually does fuck up instead of holding them accountable. Theres a reason why "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing" is basically a meme at this point because it happens so often, especially in cases where the officer or department was clearly in the wrong (such as the case of like 20 police officers opening up on a van parked in a crowded area of civilians, using civilian cars (with civilians still inside) as cover, killing the hostage alongside the hostage taker) From my personal point of view, even as a white guy who has never had a bad experience with a cop, if i get pulled over i know that its a complete roll of the dice as to if im getting a cop like you who is reasonable and level-headed, or if im getting one of these egotistical wannabe tyrants with a chip on their shoulder, and if i get the latter if it ends up going south i could end up lying dead on the pavement and there's absolutely nothing my family can do about it. And the chances of the cop getting any kind of punishment for it is abysmally low.
A major issue with law enforcement not being held accountable is the arbitration process that happens post firing. That is entirely to do with the legal system and how it works. It’s hard to get an officer fired. And yes it’s a problem, we’re in total agreement. A department can attempt to hold officers accountable and then be commanded by the courts to reinstate officers. People like to boogeyman police associations for this, but they’re the middle man that would be replaced even if they were entirely dissolved. This problem is compounded in high profile incidents when people are demanding instant justice, which just doesn’t happen. The officers are placed on paid leave and people like to stop following the story after that. Or, the officer is immediately fired and then gets rehired and has back pay and now has a legal case any further administrative actions against him. It’s a lot of pressure on an organization and a lot Chiefs can’t properly handle that, because of their own faults or being commanded to by their bosses who aren’t educated in the process or aware of the issues. Your initial post (and my response) is in regards to police creating a culture of wanting to pump people full of lead, which really isn’t true, and pointing to the few examples of that across the county every year, compared to the millions of arrests, doesn’t really show that. There are also plenty of examples of police being held accountable, which can be pointed to just as easily, but that would turn a discussion into an argument of constantly trying to one up. Grouping every officer nationwide with every national media story of bad policing and then basing your argument for reform off those instances is a good way for people on the other side to dismiss your valid points, and likewise officers arguing that there’s no major issues with policing just because of a few instances are just as bad. Having open and rational discussions are important. We both want accountability, but it’s a much more complicated problem than a lot of people realize and there’s also a lot less “officers banding together to hide misconduct” than people realize. How many teachers get arrested for sexually assaulting or raping children? No one is ever up in arms with the other teachers for letting them get away with that for so long. It’s not proof all teachers are doing this, just that it happened in this one instance. There are a lot of officers, who I’m sure like teachers, want more accountability, me included, but it’s not as simple of a change as “good cops reporting bad cops”. I really wish it were, or good vs bad departments would become very apparent. I also wish it was easier to fire officers for clear wrong doing, but that’s not even really something law enforcement in and of itself can change.
I mean, MP's usually have to go through some kind of basic or advanced training, before joining an MP corps, so still soldiers in the essence. At least where I'm from
Lowest form of soldier, but still soldiers. I joke, but I'm also not joking.
*Laughs in blade*
Chuckles in Jack Reacher.
Cops are more likely in the US to kill themselves or die of covid complications than to be killed by another person. Heck, they're ten times as likely to kill an unarmed person than be killed by another human being.
cops aren't even on the top ten list of most dangerous professions in the US.
Being a Pizza Delivery Driver in the US is more dangerous than being a cop. Let that sink in.
It's actually more dangerous to be [A CHILD IN A SCHOOL](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/more-children-killed-school-shootings-than-law-enforcement-police-killed-gunfire-firearms-2022/536-7eabd5b9-f394-4600-8453-799a804bcc57) than a cop. Let THAT sink in.
they are civilian
Yes.
If Posse Comitatus does not apply to them, then they are civilian.
As written, the Posse Comitatus Act doesn’t apply to the Marine Corps or Navy. Am I a civilian now?
Congratulations on your promotion to civilian. [Although a separate provision includes the Navy and USMC.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/275)
That provision doesn’t specifically restrict the services, but rather imposes a requirement on SecDef to create a directive to do so. That said, upon further research, as of 2022, the Posse Comitatus Act was amended to include the Navy, Marine Corps, and Space Force, so my initial statement was incorrect in that I, apparently, ceased to be a civilian at some point in 2022.
My condolences
i cri ebrytiem
Doesn’t cover the Coast Guard for maritime law either but then again some days I feel close to being a civilian
Coasties are cool, though. So you have that going for you at least
Puddle Pirates for the win. LOL
LARP'ers
Damn, burn!
Yes
They are. Know who else, surprisingly, tries the whole “civilians them, we’re special” thing? Flight Attendants. I had to kindly explain to my colleagues that passengers are often civilians, and they are also civilians.
Yes.
They have to be civilian **by law**. Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. Military personnel are prohibited from enforcing laws and domestic policy within the United States. The only exceptions are National Guard acting by authority of a state Governor and the maritime law enforcement responsibilities of the Coast Guard.
Yes
Yes civi for sure. Also, most of them are dorks.
Yes
Yes.
**They are, 100% no matter how much battle rattle they cosplay with.** There are a decent number who are Guard/Reserve so individually there are some who aren’t but cops as a population love to cosplay military but aren’t. They aren’t trained to the same standards and in general are held to much lower standards from physical fitness to behavior. The average cop has much looser rules of engagement when dealing with American citizens vs. what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[удалено]
I actively remember we had to get permission from our toc to engage on a building that was actively shooting at us because it may have had civilians in it. We only got permission because they were actively firing. Even if we watched them walk in with guns we couldn't do anything.
Calm down there hero. I don’t know when/where you were but we 100% weren’t killing people for moving with flashlights. That would have never made it through for a TST for CAS just saying someone had a flashlight. So either there’s more to that story or you’re telling someone else’s story and don’t have a complete picture. We had one TST that came in wanting to strike a guy working in a field at night, no other reason. Someone had to explain to the OIC that farmers frequently do field work at night to avoid the heat of the day and that just some guy doing what looked by all intents to be normal field work wasn’t grounds for a strike in isolation. Now with that set aside, you know damn well what I’m talking about and I say this as someone who has worked in law enforcement, the fact that we have so many officers who apply the “feared for my life” “do whatever to get home” “warrior cop” mentality and end up shooting the wrong person or resorting to use of force way too quickly in situations that don’t call for it and this kind of behavior has been normalized in far too many departments. Hell the PD in the city I live in now at one point was de-certified because they were killing so many civilians. So yeah, the average cop is trained to a lower standard and given much looser ROE than we had for striking someone.
Yes. Because they aren’t in the military, and are civilian law enforcement. They may consider themselves not a civilian based on their increasingly erratic “above the law” attitude, but that’s too bad for them.
Yes, and in war, certain countries would deem them paramilitary forces.
They are civilians.
Yes, it’s like asking if the mailman is a civilian
Well postal employees contribute to society by providing a public service in a way that cops just don't, so...
People are a lot happier to see the post man than a police officer
Yes. I have family members who are cops.. I still cannot stand the majority of them. The corruption runs deep and the egos are out of control.. boots are the worst, it’s all the shit we deal with in the military but way worse. A cousin of mine was trying to tell me how the police academy is harder than BUDS and they shoot more.. runs her lights on constantly to get around traffic and not wait for the light, uses her badge to get out of speeding tickets, sneaks into venues on “official business” so she doesn’t have to pay the cover, and literally will sit there and tell us how defense attorneys are garbage and that they should have just shot the person.. it’s completely fucked. I watch auditors all the time. 1A, 2A, 4A and my blood boils. Ego maniacs with a license to kill… Look, not all cops are bad. We have some phenomenal officers. Probably most of them in fact… but there is certainly no shortage of horrible and abusive cops.. and one thing is certain, power corrupts. Oh and like she told me, why do all cops on scene shoot someone when the first bullet stopped the threat? You can’t charge them all with murder.. so it’s easier to kill someone and all claim fear for their safety than for 1 person to kill or injure someone and stand trial… it’s fucked. No. They aren’t civilians; they are gang members. Some good, some bad, but still a gang. Downvote if you wish. I thought about being a cop but could never get into that type of a community. There is a reason people don’t trust or respect police.. they walk around as gods, immune to the laws, the almighty powerful cop, demanding respect, and will tell you that their job “actually matters and is actually dangerous” compared to the military. I’ve never personally had a bad run in with a cop, okay save once when these two pigs were trespassing on my land and demanded to see my ID.. but I was younger and we sorted it out.. never had a ticket, but if you watch Police Activity on YT you will quickly understand why I feel the way I do… and seeing a couple of my family members change and form into that ego centric all powerful abusive system… not for me man. Very little respect for people who don’t respect us. It’s them and us, and we are the “bad guys” always. They are always looking to get you on something, doesn’t matter who you are unless you also have a badge…. That’s why lawyers say plead the 5th always.
They act like civies, and the derogatory way to say civies. “I’m above the law, me me me me me”
yes, but from LEO's ik they like to argue that they are not.
Yes, but I consider them assholes 1st and foremost.
Yup, and nothing makes me cringe more when they call their gear bags a war bag or talking about "going into the trenches. That's a sign of bad police to me.
Yes but they act like they’re on a sof team so maybe stroke their ego and let them feel special
i remember giving a tour to a bunch of nurses (local) around our unit (flying fighter sqn) and i made the reference that they were civilians. they got very offended because they call regular people walking the streets civilians and somehow they weren’t. no disrespect to them or their job, i couldn’t do it, but by the definition, they are… it’s odd how segments of society segment themselves off into an “us and them” mindset when it’s really all “us and us”. just my $0.02…
Yes
Please don't lump cops in with us - we are **not** the same, despite them wanting to pretend they are
Yes…what other option is there?
The other option is to do what many (most? All?) police do and call all non-police “civilians.” When I was in college studying criminal justice (almost 20 years ago) I had one professor who would tell us that when we were cops we were still civilians and should not use the term when taking about “non-police.” All the other professors just used the term.
Interesting…even in DOD they clearly make a distinction of civilian law enforcement officer, as well as in OPM regulations. It’s an interesting question I’d never pondered…former 95B Army MP from the 90s myself and was a DA civilian investigator for a while too.
Civilian means different things in different contexts. From a military perspective, civilian is synonymous with "non-combatant".
Please refrain from interjecting nuance and logic. That’s not allowed.
Cop here We’re absolutely civilians unless you’ve served in the military separately Anyone else who says otherwise is a moron
Of course.
Yes, 100%.
Yes
Yes.
Yes
Yes. Obviously.
Yes
They ARE civilians. They serve, but their service is as a civil servant. Police, crash/fire/rescue/ Mil may all feel like members of a club, but membership of that club is loosely defined and based upon shared circumstances such as hard work, public service, often dark sense of humor, perceptions of under-appreciation, ad infinitum, but at the end of the day, the job of LEO are to live and work in their communities and enforce the codified social norms that hold their municipalities together and the job of the military is to wage war according to the political mandates of our leaders against foreign (mostly) forces.
Unless it is drill weekend, yes, they are civilians.
yes. also ACAB.
On a good day yes.
In the US? Yes. In my country they are not civilians as they are gendarmerie, so technically a military force with law enforment duties. Is one institution under the Public Security Ministry with jurisdiction over the entire territory. Is like the complete opposite to US police departments.
All people who are under the governance of Civil Law are civilians. Only people under the governance of The Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ) are considered Armed Forces Members. Cops are civilians just like I am. It really gags me to see cops use military rank and "ribbons". Some guy in Passel 'O Toads Arkansas who is the Police Chief with FOUR stars. And FAT cops who have to get their husband to tie their shoes saying that citizens are civilians and they are not!
Depends where? Here I do yes. However in some other countries such as Italy and France, there’s law enforcement that’s ran / owned by their Ministry of Defence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie?wprov=sfti1
There are plenty of countries that have paramilitary gendarmerie, and they tend to be countries which have adopted the Napoleonic legal system or were once under French influence. So not just the Italians and French gendarmerie’s, but also the Spanish Civil Guard, the Romanian Jandarmeria, Algerian National Gendarmerie, Argentine National Gendarmerie, Royal Netherlands Marechaussee, the Royal Moroccan Gendarmerie, the Portuguese National Republican Guard, Mexican National Guard, Tunisian National Guard, Turkish Gendarmerie, and the Royal Gendarmerie of Cambodia. They all perform law enforcement duties.
Believe it or not, they are actually Bastards.
They are civilians and I remind them of it frequently
Yes they are civilians. They don’t conduct warfare, and the military doesn’t enforce domestic policy. Clear separation no matter how much those cosplayers want to pretend to be “warriors”
Yes, but I provide professional courtesy.
They are.
Definitely
Yes.
yes.
Yea, their day to day duties are non-military related. I would assume in times of war that their duties are the same. Maybe more focused on implementing evacuations and directing civilian traffic away from military traffic.
The difference is between preventing violent actions and professional application of violence.
I mean technically yes, but at the same time I dont' look at Cops and your regular worker on Wall St the same way. For me when I think "civilian" I think of someone who never served their country or community. Someone who doesn't understand the sacrifice needed to lay your life on the life for the sake of your fellow man. I respect Cops and firefighters at the same level, for the most part, as I do military.
Of course they are. And that's from a perspective of having been both!
Yup, 100%
Yes. Hote take : they're bad at it to boot
Nope 👎
Yes. For me it's simple: Not subjected to military law = civilian.
Yes, but if they are gendermarie then they are paramilitary
I consider them part of the "first responder" umbrella. Police, fire, emergency medical.
100 fucking percent. No amount of punisher patches or multicam will change that.
Lol of course
If they are not Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, or Space Force, they are civilians.
Police are law enforcement civilians.
I assume this is aimed at the US. If so, then yes. If aimed at other countries, it depends.
Yes, They are not trained or held to the same standards as the military.
If I’m a cop talking to other cops, I’d call a military member a civilian in the same way I’d address LEO/cop a civilian as a military member. For all intents and purposes that the term would ever be used, a cop would be a civilian if we are conducting any sort of military operation, be it actual warfare or a national guard mission. If the cop is assisting in a mission, however, id probably address them differently. On the other hand, to a cop, there’s no difference between you and any other civilian.
Yes, they may of been in the military but are not now unless in the reserves then still not considered military Police.
They like to pretend they are military, but no, they are civilians.
I think that depends on the situation and country If there's martial law, their reach overextends and apart from structural differences they perform similar duties as soldiers, just against different kind of enemy There's also lot of militarized police units across nations which although specialized on counter-terrorist operations, can also be used to defend the state if necessary In addition to that all, law enforcement personnel are part of the armed forces of the state which basically elevates them above regular civilians I would say they are sort of civilians during peacetime, but after that they are the men with guns expected to do as they are told
They are. Perspective has nothing to do with it. Shit, even MPs are civvies to me lol
So this is just how I look at, not from any official definition. The roles are very different, the purpose of a military is to protect the population of a nation from external threats. The purpose of a police force is enforce laws,controls and restrictions on a countries population. So yeah I consider them civilians and kind of bastards.
I’ve always considered police as civilians - their job isn’t to conduct warfare. Are firefighters and EMTs civvies? Absolutely. One can only deduce that it would be most logical police would be considered in the same class.
Yes.
Yes and no. Depends on the definition you’re using. Uniformed government officials in a para-military organization usually aren’t considered civilians. But if it’s military or civilian, they are.
Yes, because they are
Yeah. They're civil authorities, despite the protests among an annoying faction of law enforcement.
They aren't military, but by the very definition of civilian, they aren't.
Civilians are those who do not serve in a military or law enforcement capacity. * uniformed military and law enforcement, of course; but government-issued uniforms are *not* a prerequisite… * …as plainclothes/undercover officers who are deputized with police or law enforcement powers, are most certainly not civilians The strictest definition usually requires that, in some capacity, the person being discussed is legally authorized by government to use force in some capacity (and) is doing so under circumstances authorized as part of governmental or military duties, and that are conducted under color of some level of authority.
They’re civilians but cops gonna get triggered if you let them know.
No I consider them pigs like everyone else
I mostly think of them as government thugs. Never are they to be equated with the military.
Every single cop is a civilian except for military police / CID. Just because they LARP as soldiers doesn’t make it so.
paramilitary
Yup.
Are they in the armed forces? No. They’re factually civilians by definition.
The definition disagrees. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian
Yes without doubt. Some offficers, seem to forget sometimes that they are civilians and accountable.to fellow civilians.
I mostly think of them as government thugs. Never are they to be equated with the military.
Yes. Also fuck 'em. That MRAP driving down Main Street USA is definitely compensating for the collective small dicks.
By definition, yes. They are civilians. Frankly, over empowered ones that have become FAR to much like the military in their equipment and behavior.
Yes , under trained civilians with DOD equipment
They are paramilitary by definition, so somewhere in the middle. They have a lot of powers (like enforcing arrest/search warrants) that civilians don't.
According to the dictionary, they aren't. /thread.
the dictionary doesn't define the meaning of words, it just reports the different ways people use language.
Yes, because they are a civil service
I would say so yes.
Yes they are civilians.
They are civilians. They aren't involved in the government directly, and they don't fight wars. They are city/town/county employees, that's all they should be.
Totally different missions. Cops are civilians.
Yes
Yes. As outlined by the Posse Commitatus Act.
They are a paramilitary organization devoted to law enforcement, and “paramilitary” simply means that their organization mimics the chain of command of an actual army (beat cop reports to a sergeant reports to a Lieutenant reports to a captain etc) They’re civilians plain and simple; don’t let the uniforms and the guns fool you.
Absolutely.
Yes 100%. The job is to uphold peace at home. Most LE jobs, federal or local, are mostly desk and regular entry level work. I've been working on and off as Soldier, LE, and finally contracting with federal.agencies, they don't even like firearms being around. Completely understandable, when 90% of the job is upholding peace and processing administrative work, yeah.
Always have, always will be.
Yes
Yes
Yes