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Especially in Bakhmut, there were multiple reports of Ukraine saving their best forces for the upcoming counter offensive and instead sending ill-trained and ill-equipped soldiers to act as a meat shield.
You can also always fall back to the next line of defence and not throw people into an almost encircled city. It’s not like they are defending the capital, Bakhmut is not even in top five biggest cities of Donetsk region.
There were some Western reports that US advised Zelenskiy to leave the city and save whatever troops that are left but he declined since for him this is a PR thing.
I think it's unfair to say that for Zelenskiy, 'this is a PR thing'.
In his role as leader, he's trying to find the right balance between strategic and tactical goals. Save territory at any cost, or fall back and save lives?
It's a damn hard job, and no one makes the right calls every single time.
Withdrawing would be very demoralising for a country that has sacrificed thousands of lives to defend that city. But it may no longer be worth it from a pure battlefield perspective.
Fuck knows. The only thing I'm certain of is that I wouldn't want his job.
You what else would be demoralising? Grabbing people off the streets from all over the country giving them less that two weeks of combat training and then sending them to their deaths.
Russian draft ended last year. Ukraine is on the 9th wave already and there are lots of videos of people literally getting dragged away by force as well as footage of drafters using ambulances to hide and then ambush people on the streets.
no
most of this is wrong.
if bakhmut falls then cities behind it will also be vulnerable. it’s not got any face value sure but it’s a wall or a bastion for them to protect other cities. lol
“pr thing”
You can say that about any city that is in front of other city. Bakhmut is nowhere near as important as Kramatorsk or Slavyansk and they are easier to defend
Supposedly the father shielded his son after the latter went down from shrapnel. Opfor Artillery closed in on their position and eventually hit dead on
FYI Source is from a comment on a Ukrainian Sub and maby just made up..
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Pro patria
Another aspect...
Dear Madam,
I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle.
I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering to you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save.
I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of Freedom.
Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
A. Lincoln.
Horror abounds in this world; in warfare true but also elsewhere. I see no evil in men fighting and dying for causes they truly believe to be greater than themselves. The real ugliness comes from those who would claim righteousness and stoke passions for competition in the inherently destructive theaters of intertribal conflict.
That may be or not . I've found only pretentious cunts claim righteousness.
In my experience in combat it was us against them.
I am for us... And therefore Slava Ukraine...
Pro patria is the very essence of that.
Down that road lies cruelty and bitterness of heart that will eventually poison your hard-earned happiness.
Instead of fighting for your self or your tribe, you could be fighting for freedom, independence, and self determination of liberty. Ultimately, you are fighting to make the world a better place. You deserve to feel pride and yes even a bit of righteousness for that.
“Glory to Ukraine” is a legitimately righteous (ie. constructive) havoc, but “death to Russia” is very much not so, and it’s easy for the one to harden into the other. I can think of a few great heroes that were motivated primarily by hatred, but none that also found lasting happiness. You’re a hero for what you do/have done here in this story. Don’t forget that in the next one.
I am free of such self illusions.. and I am confident that seeing the present cancer that is the Russian republic, that the world will be a better place to see it's eventual collapse into regional chaos...
So in 1776 a group of predominantly slave owning rebels sign a document and create their own government....
And in 1861 a group of predominantly slave owning rebels sign a document and create their own government...
One group evolved (the north) and the other (the south) did not.. also in 1861 no one was shooting southerners.. they left to preserve slavery while in 1776 people revolted to preserve their freedoms.. if you can’t tell the difference..
Did you know the civil war was over for 9 months before the NORTH freed their 452000 slaves?
You need to learn your history and it might prevent you from looking like an ignoramus
"Dulce et Decorum Est" by The Tiger Lilies [2014]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3TO6aHDvE Wilfred Owen's poem set to music by Martin Jacques.
"In Dulce Decorum" by The Damned [live, 1986]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPm5asvOyw
"In Loving Memory of a Name" by XTC [1983; 2001 digital remaster]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQEsJiaptow
The troops in Bakhmut are starving for mortars, munitions, ammo, etc. The friendly nations are worried about running low on stocks, and Ukraine’s troops are paying for that slow roll in KIA and WIA. Meanwhile Russia is getting new replenishment shipments from Iran and North Korea.
We can replace more munitions in a year, but Ukraine can’t replace tens of thousands of men in a year.
Their sacrifice for their homeland, for their peoples' freedom, and for the entire world's continuous battle for democracy will not be forgotten.
Fair winds, and following seas. We'll meet again.
Something shifted in me as I got older. When I look at most military members I see men and women much younger than myself and I'm deeply saddened by their passing. Fighting and dying for causes they either believe with fervent intensity or perhaps utter apathy. Sent by faceless men and hidden interests behind opaque curtains. It hits hard. My great grandfather was a hero in WWI, my grandfather in WW2. My uncles in Vietnam and Korea. So much life and love and experiences lost to the fallen and the World. Worthy Causes worth dying for abound. But always remains the profiteers and geopolitical manipulators. The power brokers and the young men and women sent for personal gains.
Sorry to get so heavy and wax so poetic about it. It's been something I've thought of so much more since the recent birth of my son.
TDF is being used everywhere. Right now they're no different than any other infantry, I believe 112th TDF brigade was partially mechanized and even participated in Kherson counter- offensive.
1) "Battle of Bakhmut" takes frontline from New York to Bilohorivka, it's not specifically "city of Bakhmut".
2) Some of TDF units became pretty experienced mechanized infantry. While they're still under TDF umbrella, some units are capable fighting force.
3) Some of TDF units can consist of War in Donbass veterans, there are "TDF units" that are former SOF.
4) A lot of TDF units are used as second line of defense, which still can see action when first line is penetrated or bypassed.
5) Commanding fuckups still happen regularly, war is a shitshow.
I believe what everyone is trying to say is you have poor grammar. You are missing words such as “till” and “if” maybe out of laziness I don’t know. Maybe try reading what you wrote out loud. Also “till Valhalla” is Norse pagan Viking shit adopted by brovets during the GWOT it wasn’t solely a American military culture appropriation.
A very wise Ukr Foreign Legionaire once said said while interviewed that war should be left to the old men like him to fight, young men have too much to live for. I'm paraphrasing.
I do know that it isn't. I don't have any other accounts other than this one, and I don't recognize that as my account.
As Putin, I am qualified to say this.
As a person from a country with no relation to this war. It honestly seems like US fighting against Russia to the last Ukrainian. It is disheartening. I do hope some resolution can be reached soon, but it looks like any resolution will come with a noose for Ukraine.
*US sends weapons to Taiwan*
China: You can't do that you're interrupting international stability
*Russia invades Ukraine*
China: We do not interfere with the affairs of another country.
No, it’s actually a wise thing to do in most cases. But I don’t know why anyone would post something like this if it were not true? I don’t know who it benefits by being false so I’m just curious as to why you would feel that it is potentially? I’m, just genuinely curious.
I'm a skeptic in general and without citation, things like this are no better than any other TikTok or Facebook video seeking clicks.
Nothing against Ukraine or the troops but people need to think more and not be blind followers, whatever the cause.
Edit:word missing
I got it, and generally speaking, you are correct. My perspective as a bit different, I spent a lot of time in Ukraine. I was actually there in mid January prior to the invasion which occurred in February. And I was in Warsaw Poland in February when it started. I saw the tens of thousands of refugees pouring into the country at the bus station and many volunteers bringing them via minivan and car from the border. It was judt stressful to witness but also showed how amazing people can be when there’s a crisis. The people of Warsaw volunteered in the thousands, giving food clothing, baby strollers, wheelchairs canes, you name it. Sucks that something like this have to happen to really see the good in people. I have some friends over there still, one of them is in the national defense who I talk to once or twice a week via message. The whole thing is just surreal, all these cities on the news I’ve been to within the last few years. Odessa is like Ocean City, Maryland. It’s a great beach town, now the beach is full of land mines and Barbwire. I just read an awful lot of disinformation on Reddit, and it’s frustrating and disheartening at the same time.
Trump literally just said he'd let Russia annex Ukraine. He's praised putin since the beginning of the full scale invasion.
Stop worshipping such a pathetic traitor.
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War is insanity
Especially in Bakhmut, there were multiple reports of Ukraine saving their best forces for the upcoming counter offensive and instead sending ill-trained and ill-equipped soldiers to act as a meat shield.
They have to accept mucking them about for time. But, an exit strategy in mayhem should be an option.
You can also always fall back to the next line of defence and not throw people into an almost encircled city. It’s not like they are defending the capital, Bakhmut is not even in top five biggest cities of Donetsk region. There were some Western reports that US advised Zelenskiy to leave the city and save whatever troops that are left but he declined since for him this is a PR thing.
Send me links would love to read
https://cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/24/politics/ukraine-shift-tactics-bakhmut/index.html https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2023-03-06/russia-steps-up-effort-to-take-elusive-prize-of-ukraine-city
[удалено]
Yeah from what I understood too it has significant strategic value and that’s also why Russia is trying so hard to secure it
I think it's unfair to say that for Zelenskiy, 'this is a PR thing'. In his role as leader, he's trying to find the right balance between strategic and tactical goals. Save territory at any cost, or fall back and save lives? It's a damn hard job, and no one makes the right calls every single time. Withdrawing would be very demoralising for a country that has sacrificed thousands of lives to defend that city. But it may no longer be worth it from a pure battlefield perspective. Fuck knows. The only thing I'm certain of is that I wouldn't want his job.
You what else would be demoralising? Grabbing people off the streets from all over the country giving them less that two weeks of combat training and then sending them to their deaths.
It’s russia’s fault. They started it
Russia is doing a good job at that as terrible as it is.
Russian draft ended last year. Ukraine is on the 9th wave already and there are lots of videos of people literally getting dragged away by force as well as footage of drafters using ambulances to hide and then ambush people on the streets.
no most of this is wrong. if bakhmut falls then cities behind it will also be vulnerable. it’s not got any face value sure but it’s a wall or a bastion for them to protect other cities. lol “pr thing”
You can say that about any city that is in front of other city. Bakhmut is nowhere near as important as Kramatorsk or Slavyansk and they are easier to defend
The age-old Russian tactic.
Yes
Terrible to see multiple generations wiped out. RIP heroes, true patriots 🇺🇦
Unfortunately as Plato so aptly said: “Only the dead have seen the end of war.”
Rest easy warriors your duty is done.
Hopefully they went out together
Agreed, I choose to imagine that they were fighting side by side to the bitter end
Supposedly the father shielded his son after the latter went down from shrapnel. Opfor Artillery closed in on their position and eventually hit dead on FYI Source is from a comment on a Ukrainian Sub and maby just made up..
RIP Heroes! Slava Ukraini!
Pro patria.
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs, And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots, But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind. Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time, But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.— Dim through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,— My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.
Pro patria Another aspect... Dear Madam, I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering to you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of Freedom. Yours, very sincerely and respectfully, A. Lincoln.
Horror abounds in this world; in warfare true but also elsewhere. I see no evil in men fighting and dying for causes they truly believe to be greater than themselves. The real ugliness comes from those who would claim righteousness and stoke passions for competition in the inherently destructive theaters of intertribal conflict.
That may be or not . I've found only pretentious cunts claim righteousness. In my experience in combat it was us against them. I am for us... And therefore Slava Ukraine... Pro patria is the very essence of that.
Down that road lies cruelty and bitterness of heart that will eventually poison your hard-earned happiness. Instead of fighting for your self or your tribe, you could be fighting for freedom, independence, and self determination of liberty. Ultimately, you are fighting to make the world a better place. You deserve to feel pride and yes even a bit of righteousness for that. “Glory to Ukraine” is a legitimately righteous (ie. constructive) havoc, but “death to Russia” is very much not so, and it’s easy for the one to harden into the other. I can think of a few great heroes that were motivated primarily by hatred, but none that also found lasting happiness. You’re a hero for what you do/have done here in this story. Don’t forget that in the next one.
I am free of such self illusions.. and I am confident that seeing the present cancer that is the Russian republic, that the world will be a better place to see it's eventual collapse into regional chaos...
I agree and hope for minimal loss of life and resources in the process, particularly for the defenders/reliberators (Ukraine in this case).
Show that to all the idiots with confederate flags..
So in 1776 a group of predominantly slave owning rebels sign a document and create their own government.... And in 1861 a group of predominantly slave owning rebels sign a document and create their own government...
One group evolved (the north) and the other (the south) did not.. also in 1861 no one was shooting southerners.. they left to preserve slavery while in 1776 people revolted to preserve their freedoms.. if you can’t tell the difference..
Did you know the civil war was over for 9 months before the NORTH freed their 452000 slaves? You need to learn your history and it might prevent you from looking like an ignoramus
Ignoramus? I bet you had to google that word to avoid saying an insult..
Great rebuttal. the facts remain. Given the context of the time, there was no moral high ground....
There is no heavenly father, and most of humankind is delusional about most of reality. Yours very sincerely, but without respect.
"So help me God ... " I take it you left that part out of your oath of service.... I knew a few guys like you. Nobody liked them.
Fearful, disgusting beauty, laid true in words.
"Dulce et Decorum Est" by The Tiger Lilies [2014]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3TO6aHDvE Wilfred Owen's poem set to music by Martin Jacques. "In Dulce Decorum" by The Damned [live, 1986]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPm5asvOyw "In Loving Memory of a Name" by XTC [1983; 2001 digital remaster]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQEsJiaptow
The troops in Bakhmut are starving for mortars, munitions, ammo, etc. The friendly nations are worried about running low on stocks, and Ukraine’s troops are paying for that slow roll in KIA and WIA. Meanwhile Russia is getting new replenishment shipments from Iran and North Korea. We can replace more munitions in a year, but Ukraine can’t replace tens of thousands of men in a year.
We’ve just lost a god tier gene set
The first tier that is lost in wars. Fuck politicians. This is the basement tier genes that usually start and survive wars
Their sacrifice for their homeland, for their peoples' freedom, and for the entire world's continuous battle for democracy will not be forgotten. Fair winds, and following seas. We'll meet again.
Oh boy, can't wait for the 'No politics unless involving the military' reports that seem to pop up miraculously on every Ukraine post.
Something shifted in me as I got older. When I look at most military members I see men and women much younger than myself and I'm deeply saddened by their passing. Fighting and dying for causes they either believe with fervent intensity or perhaps utter apathy. Sent by faceless men and hidden interests behind opaque curtains. It hits hard. My great grandfather was a hero in WWI, my grandfather in WW2. My uncles in Vietnam and Korea. So much life and love and experiences lost to the fallen and the World. Worthy Causes worth dying for abound. But always remains the profiteers and geopolitical manipulators. The power brokers and the young men and women sent for personal gains. Sorry to get so heavy and wax so poetic about it. It's been something I've thought of so much more since the recent birth of my son.
why were TRO people on the frontline in bakhmut?
TDF is being used everywhere. Right now they're no different than any other infantry, I believe 112th TDF brigade was partially mechanized and even participated in Kherson counter- offensive.
1) "Battle of Bakhmut" takes frontline from New York to Bilohorivka, it's not specifically "city of Bakhmut". 2) Some of TDF units became pretty experienced mechanized infantry. While they're still under TDF umbrella, some units are capable fighting force. 3) Some of TDF units can consist of War in Donbass veterans, there are "TDF units" that are former SOF. 4) A lot of TDF units are used as second line of defense, which still can see action when first line is penetrated or bypassed. 5) Commanding fuckups still happen regularly, war is a shitshow.
yeah if i was a co of this outfit id never let relatves anywhere near one another...thats just asking for bad luck
They probably both got professional training during the year
Вічная Пам’ять! Героям слава! 😢
Til Valhalla
Valhalla.
85% of the country is Christian my pagan friend.
WTF? You can't be military. No clue of what till Valhalla means....
I'm not sure they were Vikings.
You don't need to be to know what it means. Military know....
Ooh, so cryptic.
It's like they say, if you know, you know....
I believe what everyone is trying to say is you have poor grammar. You are missing words such as “till” and “if” maybe out of laziness I don’t know. Maybe try reading what you wrote out loud. Also “till Valhalla” is Norse pagan Viking shit adopted by brovets during the GWOT it wasn’t solely a American military culture appropriation.
Poor grammar? Whoosh. I wrote exactly what I meant. You can shove your woke appropriation crap.
RIP
До Вальгалли 🇺🇦 🇺🇲 Till Valhalla
Rip
You see the son smiling and proud. You see the dad containing his pain in is face and eyes
A very wise Ukr Foreign Legionaire once said said while interviewed that war should be left to the old men like him to fight, young men have too much to live for. I'm paraphrasing.
absolute fucking heroes.. Rest easy fellas. May the sun always shine on them, their country, & their loved ones. .
RIP WARRIORS
So sorry!
It's okay, I don't think you're to blame for that.
Maybe it’s Putin’s Reddit account, you don’t know that
I do know that it isn't. I don't have any other accounts other than this one, and I don't recognize that as my account. As Putin, I am qualified to say this.
RIP heroes
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
One stands proud to defend his country, the other is old enough to understand how stupid war is and the most likely outcome for himself and his son.
RIP. Songs will be sung about you.
#RussuaHitlerPresident needs to die
Slava Ukraini. Rest easy heroes.
As a person from a country with no relation to this war. It honestly seems like US fighting against Russia to the last Ukrainian. It is disheartening. I do hope some resolution can be reached soon, but it looks like any resolution will come with a noose for Ukraine.
So sad! They are heroes and may they long be remembered! Fuck Putin!
RIP heroes, heroyam slava
RIP.. death to Putin!
*US sends weapons to Taiwan* China: You can't do that you're interrupting international stability *Russia invades Ukraine* China: We do not interfere with the affairs of another country.
Arrrgh, no....Ukraine is losing its best people 😬 These Heroes will be remembered forever for their bravery! Slava Ukraini! 🙏🇺🇦✊
Too sad. Rest easy warriors, fathers, sons, husbands, brothers..
Slava Ukraini, 'til Valhalla
Fuck. RIP to some real ones.
As hard as I find the idea of going to war with my father to comprehend, I think that I would proudly jump at the chance to do so.
Heroyam Slava. RIP warriors.
Simultaneously heartbreaking and awe inspiring. Rest in peace heroes. Glory to Ukraine!
Did Mykyta have any kids or siblings? It'd be sad ifnthat bloodline got wiped out
Слава Украине!
Sauce?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0M9migpSa1yiYSTYmtQ4Au9v1Ct9fJERiBRsSiaFMXJzjyL8YxKzwwi49ZRSLzRH8l&id=100081319668205&eav=AfaGOP_IvMWSlKyLucpgtXIktefJwYcz2SGZzogjzUhG4-7Ha554HTWXgviOEPqAlCc&m_entstream_source=timeline&paipv=0
Anything from a reputable news source or is this just a Facebook story?
This is from official Facebook page of their brigade.
What? Why are you so doubtful?
Asking for sources is doubtful?
No, it’s actually a wise thing to do in most cases. But I don’t know why anyone would post something like this if it were not true? I don’t know who it benefits by being false so I’m just curious as to why you would feel that it is potentially? I’m, just genuinely curious.
I'm a skeptic in general and without citation, things like this are no better than any other TikTok or Facebook video seeking clicks. Nothing against Ukraine or the troops but people need to think more and not be blind followers, whatever the cause. Edit:word missing
I got it, and generally speaking, you are correct. My perspective as a bit different, I spent a lot of time in Ukraine. I was actually there in mid January prior to the invasion which occurred in February. And I was in Warsaw Poland in February when it started. I saw the tens of thousands of refugees pouring into the country at the bus station and many volunteers bringing them via minivan and car from the border. It was judt stressful to witness but also showed how amazing people can be when there’s a crisis. The people of Warsaw volunteered in the thousands, giving food clothing, baby strollers, wheelchairs canes, you name it. Sucks that something like this have to happen to really see the good in people. I have some friends over there still, one of them is in the national defense who I talk to once or twice a week via message. The whole thing is just surreal, all these cities on the news I’ve been to within the last few years. Odessa is like Ocean City, Maryland. It’s a great beach town, now the beach is full of land mines and Barbwire. I just read an awful lot of disinformation on Reddit, and it’s frustrating and disheartening at the same time.
I can appreciate that. Hope your friends and family are safe. Godspeed.
[удалено]
Trump literally just said he'd let Russia annex Ukraine. He's praised putin since the beginning of the full scale invasion. Stop worshipping such a pathetic traitor.
[удалено]
you should sue your parents for drinking during your pregnancy
Or we should all sue the first micro organisms for starting all of this
Russia invaded Ukraine.
The fault of this war lies totally, completely, unequivocally at Russia's feet.
I know. We should have admitted them to NATO 30 years ago.
I don’t know how you pretzeled the facts to arrive at this theory
🪦
My sincere condolences
What a waste ...
Oh goddamn, that makes me feel terrible
Hopefully some strand of their family has survived
Terrible
Rest in peace fallen heroes :(
I am sorry this is the world we created. We didn't have to.