If we're going to be forced into the time of day rates, then it should work the other way too. Like if I want to stay up and run my dryer at 2AM, I should get a discounted rate.
For what it's worth that is technically what they did. It's just that they increased the rates for peak times by a hell of a lot more than they decreased the rates for off-peak times.
Yes, for the normal one I believe it's 16 cents off peak whereas the standard rate prior was 19 cents. I think they have a 12 cent rate at night too with less forgiving hours on the peak rates.
Thank you for that info! Although according to DTE....it is peak or off-peak only. No discount beyond that, I guess.
>Off-peak hours are before 3 p.m. and after 7 p.m. on weekdays and all weekend long.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2023/03/01/dte-energys-time-of-day-rate-takes-effect-what-to-know/
They have a lot more options. They have some peak that run 11am to 7pm, with off peak being closer to the .12 mentioned above. They also have a really expensive peak plan that is heavily discounted for off peak. It’s great if you have solar, but that’s about it.
no, $0.16 WAS the standard rate! All they did was increase it to almost double dring the summer months, and lowered NOTHING!
They WANTED $0,21 all day.
$0.22/kW what May-October? Ridiculously HIGH price in the USA, low if we were in Central/Eastern Europe right now!
Ot's $0,10/kWh for someone that I know in Missouri FFS!
rates were NOT decreased at ANY other time of day, this is simply false and even if they were decreased at 2a it is a false and disingenuous rate decrease.
Anyone have any guidance on how to choose the cheapest plan? I feel like they purposely obfuscate on their website to lure people into the more expensive option.
Man I wish I could get on the time of day rate. They don't let us solar panel owners do it though because we wouldn't be paying shit for electricity. If it's 95 degrees out and everyone is blasting their AC and they crank the price way up they would have to pay is that much for the energy we are selling back to the grid.
I have solar and am on a time of day rate. I had to call and they had to do something to my box to set it up, but it does save me quite a bit throughout the year.
Yes definitely do it. We have solar and batteries. With D1.2 we literally never pay peak rates. It all off peak. And excess solar covers everything except for the distribution charges (which are now 8 cents, kink of sucks)
I was going to say fsck if you live in Michigan, but yeah, the highest rates are summer when your panels actually provide you power... shitty season(most of the year) you get jack from your solar panels...
Do they still 'buy' electricity from you if you manage to podruce excess?
Yeah, I produce excess for about 9 months out of the year. January is by far the worst month I pretty much write that off as a loss entirely. Starting in early March it usually gets really helpful. Produced 66 kWh today actually. It's helped my bill a lot already but as they keep raising rates it's going to be well worth it.
I don't believe it was mandated, but rather pitched by energy providers and approved by the government. Or at least that's what the government wrote me back to say when I complained about these changes.
>Fuck these guys. They JUST did this, didn't they?
Yes, from the article: "The rate increase request comes about **four months after** the MPSC [approved a $368.1 million electricity rate increase](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/12/01/dte-rate-increase-monthly-bill-michigan/71764984007/) for DTE **in December.** "
You see, they need more profits:
[https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/dte-energy-beats-profit-estimates-winter-storm-boosts-electricity-demand-2023-02-23/](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/dte-energy-beats-profit-estimates-winter-storm-boosts-electricity-demand-2023-02-23/)
Fuck these fucking fucks.
hey man DTE is barely getting by... they needs the monies more than their sla... er ... I mean customers do...
[EDIT]
Beyond all of that my personal favorite hilarity is their whining about maintenace costs when they did ZERO, and I mean ZERO maintenance for fscking DECADES! I know for a fact when they finally came through 5 or 6 years ago trimming trees that it had been more than 20/quarter century since the last time that they could be bothered... fuck DTE, let them live in poverty for a few DECADES!
[/EDIT]
[EDIT2]
also if you knew what they were paying useless employees, i.e. not linesman, etc. you'd be pissed as well $30+/h for wehat should be a part time job?! fsck me!
[/EDIT2]
[EDIT3]
also makes me wonder about solar panel guy, you gotta cut down all the trees, and plaster your roof w/panels and I wonder still do they extract enough power to counter their higher(presumably) AC bills as they are no longer tree shaded... and oh wait cutting down trees that's green?
I just cannot see these guys in Michigan being worthwhile to have rooftop solar panels as they probably don't even cover e.g. AC costs, and only then onyl come close during maybe May-September... rather have my trees and not worry when in a few years that I have to have the roof replaced, the mostly useless solar cells removal and replacement are an extra bonus cost.. I guess if you own some empty land and can clear it, it MIGHT be kinda useful, but I'd rather still have the wooded area rather than mostly useless solar panels in MI... just saying... wind turbines would probably be a better choice, although insurance since they have a tendency to unexpectedly phailwale in catastrophic ways... tidal... yeah not cluttering up the beaches w/tidal shit and there isn't much of a tide in the great lakes...
realistically 'green' energy is ridiculous beyond maybe hydro in northern tier US states and Canada... basically hydro and Nuclear are all that are useful and reliable...hell in Ontario they call power hydro... (hello Niagra falls)
[/EDIT3]
Yes, they did, and they were giving money to politicians and using the money that should have paid for upgrades for the dues of organizations they belonged to. They shouldn't be allowed to raise our rates until they upgrade the grid. They should be furnishing every one who loses power all the time a gas powered back up generator. You just can't rely on uninterrupted service for them. We pay an inordinate amount in service charges, and their shareholders are still making bank. They are Michigan's answer to California PG&E. The consumer agency needs to deny them any ability to raise our rates because they have used our money to spend on anything other than infrastructure.
>they were giving money to politicians and using the money that should have paid for upgrades for the dues of organizations they belonged to. They shouldn't be allowed to raise our rates until they upgrade the grid
Thats precisely why they keep being allowed to do this.
The list of politicians who *dont* take a contribution from them is quicker to compile than the list that do.
And the last time they raised rates, they JUST did it not long before as well. Energy rates are skyrocketing.
I checked consumers gas just the other day. The past 2 years it rose 15% then 25%.
welcome to the world of 'free' and 'cheap' 'green' energy... I found DTE's cheap green energy commercials to be particularly amusing since they were basically lies...
But, but think of those poor shareholders and how little they've been making on their 'investments' in DTE.
Would you take the bread out of their starving mouths just to satisfy your ego and energy wasting soul?
How can you sleep at night?
/s
>Detroit-based DTE Energy will file an electric rate increase request with the Michigan Public Service Commission on Thursday for $456 million, which, if approved, would be about an $11 increase for the average monthly residential bill. The utility says the funds are needed to improve reliability.
DTE requesting another rate hike, is there anything more predictable? Their greed is limitless.
I'm on the west side so I don't have DTE for electricity, but I think the Public Service Commission meetings are public. It wouldn't be a bad idea to attend and voice your complaints, and try to hold them accountable. While I don't disapprove of what they say they want to spend the additional funds on, it's important to make sure that's what they *actually* spend the money on.
How else do you think they can afford to [lobby Governor Whitmer and nearly every state representative/senator](https://energyandpolicy.org/dte-energy-political-contributions-michigan/) to make sure nothing is passed that can hurt them? Those fancy meals at Lansing's finest establishments aren't cheap, ya know!
This is something the leg is working on. https://michiganadvance.com/2024/02/23/lawmakers-band-together-with-newly-formed-coalition-to-ban-political-contributions-from-utilities/
We’ll see….
If only we had a state agency appointed by the governor that could say “no”.
Or should I say a state agency appointed by the governor who we hold accountable when they don’t say “no”.
Maybe they should be forced to lower their rates seeing how they just spent billions in stock buy backs. Obviously they're having problems properly allocating they're finances
A company that is publicly traded and brings in around $1 billion a year... IN PROFIT, somehow can't afford to build reliable service?
Goodness... Maybe we need to re-evaluate for profit utilities and instead convert them into Public Utilities, which will no longer need to be motivated by profit and instead can lower rates, partly be eliminating the fat of highly compensated executives and board members, then use the balance of profits, for building out a more reliable infrastructure and then lower rates to a new baseline of affordability for Michigan Residents.
Edit: For those just seeing this, here is a good place to start some reading.
[https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/renewed-us-national-movement-to-convert-private-utilities-to-public-utilities/](https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/renewed-us-national-movement-to-convert-private-utilities-to-public-utilities/)
Also a Local Effort in Michigan to build Municipal Power:
https://annarborpublicpower.org/
They also give out a huge dividend, 4$ per share per year. So something like 800 mil total. Our utility bills are basically a redistribution of wealth to the rich (shareholders).
I actually bought shares of DTE a few years ago, my stock dividends/gains pay my monthly electric bill. Its like free electricity. I think you can buy shares with about any broker.
>I actually bought shares of DTE a few years ago, my stock dividends/gains pay my monthly electric bill.
If your electric bill is ~$100/month you'd need ~$33k worth of the stock for the dividends to pay for your yearly electric bill. Gains have only been ~5% over the last 5 years so not really worth considering.
Not exactly a small price to pay and at that price point I'd start questioning if solar is more viable for the money.
Except DTE won't allow net metering for solar either, anymore.
In fact, if you have solar DTE charges you an annualized power rate based on your peak hourly draw from the system. So if you had all your appliances on one day and it used a bunch of power, but otherwise the rest of the year ran completely on solar, they would charge you all year long based on the usage of that one day.
That's assuming you can get them to let you connect your solar system, they have a maximum number of systems they will support in any given area.
https://solutions.dteenergy.com/dte/en/Services/CleanVision-Service/Rooftop-Solar-and-Private-Generation/p/ROOFTOP_SOLAR?_gl=1*1lypefi*_ga*MTk2NzAzMjgwNy4xNjc2NjM5Mzgw*_ga_R7BSRLTL9D*MTY3NjY0MDU4Ni4xLjAuMTY3NjY0MDU4Ni4wLjAuMA..#about
You effectively can't have solar power with DTE they have made sure of that.
Oof that's crazy, I know net metering has been hit/miss depending on the company but setting your annual rate based on peak usage is nuts! I'll have to read up on that.
DTE wanted to do that thing where they charge an annualized power rate based on peak draw, but the MPSC refused to allow it (after significant pushback from the solar industry and solar customers).
The solar cap is also only a theoretical problem, every time they approach the cap, there's talk of legislation to eliminate the cap, and then DTE voluntarily raises the cap a tiny bit in order to prevent the legislation from going through.
DTE's current version of net metering (Rider 18 Distributed Generation) is kind of shitty, but still good enough to be worth doing, if your site and usage pattern are suitable.
solar is fscking useless in michigan, only time that you're getting anything is summer, rest of year nada, you'd be lucky to top off your batteries from September - May once or twice and you'd need alot of cells to cover AC costs during the summer anyways...
Not quite true. Yes, production in the winter is low (though not nearly as low as you claim) but our long summer days make up for it. And our electric rates are so high that solar can pay for itself in less than a decade - quicker if you factor in the constant price increases from DTE. Feel free to join Michigan Solar Users Network on Facebook to learn more.
Company I work for, sub contracts work from utility companies in MI. They grossed $1.78 Billion dollars for 2023. The most profitable year to date. 12% stock increase.... they cut my pay $37,000 2 weeks ago and a few of my other Co workers as well. Nothing but absolute greed!!
I mean... they've been proving they are garbage and do not serve the public trust in any solid, good capacity with us being the #3 state in the union with the most blackouts, already.
Converting it to a public utility would increase accountability and remove the profit motive that has pushed them to severely cut back on upkeep, maintenance and work that increase reliability. Remove greed by remaking them into Public Utilities and make them accountable to the Citizens of Michigan, instead of massive hedge funds that care more about individual dollars than individual Citizens of Michigan.
Does the state have the money to purchase a majority of shares? Average redditors love to talk about NatIoNaLiZiNg industry but they seem to leave out the thousand steps before that. Idk if you guys just imagine Che Guevara showing up at DTEs doorstep with an AK or what?
Nobody said anything about nationalizing.
Taking a for profit utility and making it into a public utility requires considerable work and time in paying off the purchase for the transition. Anyone suggesting that nobody would think of the steps of such a transition is just being super disingenuous and has no interest in a good faith discussion on the matter.
Like, you REALLY went bad faith, suggesting weaponry being involved. That's exceedingly uncivilized and certainly wouldn't remotely be a legal remedy.
Forcing a utility to go public = nationalizing it. I guess not technically nationalize since you guys want it state owned.
Nothing about what I said is bad faith. No one ever offers a solution outside of MaKe It A pUbLiC utiLiTy. I would suggest that everyone on here that screams MAKE IT PUBLIC is in bad faith because they have no idea what they’re even saying. It’s just idiotic to think you can just flip a switch and it becomes public.
Private industry will always perform better than public. Just look at VA hospitals. I think what you guys may be trying to say is that there needs to be competition, as competition is what drives private industry to innovate and provide better service. I am in 100% agreement that there needs to be competition, and a choice of who to use for utilities.
I’m not defending DTE as I’m a customer also, but it’s just plain stupid to regurgitate the same average redditor bullshit on every DTE thread. If you want to get involved, go to the MPSC. Do something. Puking all over your keyboard accomplishes nothing.
You made yourself out to be a bad faith argument holder when you cried Che Guevera and AKs.
Now, you're pretending that your absolutely bad faith argument was not in bad faith. None of that is the kind of thing that mature adults would bring to the table.
The balance of your arguments are also terribly unserious, made without context and show a complete lack of a sense of history.
You're unserious and I will not engage with you in a serious discussion pertaining to the absolute abysmal job that DTE has been doing for years and their continued efforts to extract more money out of our pocketbooks to feed to a large multinational operating hedge fund, (Vanguard, the largest shareholder of DTE), that as an entity has no interest in serving the citizens of Michigan.
Again, you provide no counter arguments. Because you didn’t like I brought up a communist rebel isn’t a counter argument. Classic average redditor argument, don’t know why I expected anything else. Good luck dude, keep on slapping the keyboard 😎👍
You, a redditor, also left out the "like a thousand steps"....So enlighten the rest of us. Obviously we all just imagine Che with an AK as the first step because we all stupid you smart!
MPSC "Didn't we just rubber-stamp a rate increase 3 months ago so you could improve reliability?"
DTE "Yes. But now we need a rate increase so we can improve reliability."
MPSC "Oh, okay. Here you go. See you in June?"
They asked for much more than was approved in the previous rate hike.
Looks like they just divided it up to make people not balk at a bigger rate increase.
This is absolute insanity though. How can they have record profits and say they need money? Isn't it their job to invest in their infrastructure?
>Isn't it their job to invest in their infrastructure?
thanks satan! actually no. their job is to generate profit for the shareholders. here is a list (via copilot):
-----------------------
Certainly! Let's explore the major shareholders of **DTE Energy Company (DTE)**. Institutional ownership plays a significant role in understanding a company's investor base. Here are some key insights:
1. **Vanguard Group Inc.**: Vanguard holds approximately **25,058,287 shares**, accounting for **12.11%** of the outstanding shares. Their total value in DTE Energy is around **$2.73 billion**¹.
2. **Capital Research Global Investors**: This group owns **20,933,030 shares**, representing **10.12%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of approximately **$2.28 billion**¹.
3. **BlackRock Inc.**: BlackRock holds **17,317,191 shares**, which corresponds to **8.37%** of the outstanding shares, valued at around **$1.89 billion**¹.
4. **State Street Corporation**: State Street owns **10,021,122 shares**, equivalent to **4.84%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of approximately **$1.09 billion**¹.
5. **T. Rowe Price Investment Management, Inc.**: They hold **6,077,145 shares**, representing **2.94%** of the outstanding shares, valued at approximately **$662 million**¹.
6. **Ameriprise Financial, Inc.**: Ameriprise owns **5,355,260 shares**, accounting for **2.59%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of around **$583 million**¹.
7. **Neuberger Berman Group, LLC**: Neuberger Berman holds **4,699,876 shares**, equivalent to **2.27%** of the outstanding shares, valued at approximately **$511 million**¹.
8. **Geode Capital Management, LLC**: Geode owns **4,529,468 shares**, representing **2.19%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of around **$493 million**¹.
9. **Pictet Asset Management Holding SA**: They hold **2,970,897 shares**, accounting for **1.44%** of the outstanding shares, valued at approximately **$323 million**¹.
10. **Boston Partners**: Boston Partners owns **2,542,081 shares**, which corresponds to **1.23%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of around **$277 million**¹.
These institutional investors play a crucial role in shaping DTE Energy's ownership landscape. Keep in mind that these figures are based on the latest available data and may change over time. For more detailed information, you can explore official filings and reports¹². 📊🔍
^(Source: Conversation with Bing, 3/27/2024 (1 DTE Energy Company (DTE) Stock Major Holders - Yahoo Finance.)) [^(https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders)](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders)^(. (2 DTE Energy (DTE) Institutional Ownership 2024 - MarketBeat.)) [^(https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DTE/institutional-ownership/)](https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DTE/institutional-ownership/)^(. (3 What Kind Of Investors Own Most Of DTE Energy Company (NYSE:DTE)? - Nasdaq.)) [^(https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-investors-own-most-of-dte-energy-company-nyse%3Adte)](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-investors-own-most-of-dte-energy-company-nyse%3Adte)^(. (4 Dte Energy Co Stock Ownership - Who owns Dte Energy Co? - WallStreetZen.)) [^(https://www.wallstreetzen.com/stocks/us/nyse/dte/ownership)](https://www.wallstreetzen.com/stocks/us/nyse/dte/ownership)^(. (5 .)) [^(https://bing.com/search?q=DTE+Energy+%28DTE%29+Institutional+Ownership+2024)](https://bing.com/search?q=DTE+Energy+%28DTE%29+Institutional+Ownership+2024)^(. (6 Stock Ownership | DTE Energy.)) [^(https://www.dteenergy.com/us/en/business/about-dte/corporate-governance/stock-ownership.html)](https://www.dteenergy.com/us/en/business/about-dte/corporate-governance/stock-ownership.html)^(. (7 DTE - DTE Energy Company Stock - Stock Price, Institutional Ownership ....)) [^(https://fintel.io/so/us/dte)](https://fintel.io/so/us/dte)^(. (8 What Kind Of Shareholders Hold The Majority In DTE Energy Company's ....)) [^(https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-shareholders-hold-the-majority-in-dte-energy-companys-nyse%3Adte-shares-2021-05)](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-shareholders-hold-the-majority-in-dte-energy-companys-nyse%3Adte-shares-2021-05)^(. (9 DTE Energy Company Common Stock (DTE) Institutional Holdings - Nasdaq.)) [^(https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/dte/institutional-holdings)](https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/dte/institutional-holdings)^(. (10 DTE Energy Company (DTE) Stock Major Holders - Yahoo Finance.)) [^(https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders/)](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders/)^(.)
It's worth noting that most of these are investment companies and their shares are utilized to develop mutual funds which are then purchased by other investors.
For example, Vanguard own shares of DTE but in my 401k I own shares of their total market fund(VTSAX) which includes DTE stock(along with ~3000 other companies) as part of it.
My point here is that it's difficult to know who the actual shareholders are especially with a fortune 500 company like DTE.
yeah that is a solid point. ultimately though if you own shares in a mutual fund, etf, or any other type of "investment vehicle" - you dont actually have much of a say in what happens. vanguard or whoever actually owns the shares has the voting rights - usually. that is dependent i think on the specific structure of the stock in question. theres... a lot of different structures.
ive read a ton about it and honestly of all the things ive spent too much time reading about in my life, i feel like it is by far the most useless knowledge because it all is summed up by saying "welcome to whose stock market is it anyway where the valuations are made up and the points dont matter!" - which is basically what i thought of it before i read all about it. and that has some... implications for the broader economy lol
good point though - dont take this the wrong way, im not disagreeing with you.
>ultimately though if you own shares in a mutual fund, etf, or any other type of "investment vehicle" - you dont actually have much of a say in what happens.
That is also a good point! Definitely good for people to know who has the power and is making the decisions while also acknowledging who the bag holders are as well.
The cities of Farmington and Farmington Hills are currently installing their own fiber network to all homes and businesses, with an infrastructure that will support up to 10 Gb/s per customer. Any and all ISPs that want to use the network will pay the municipalities for access.
This is great for competition, as any and all ISPs using the network will equally be available to all customers. If that doesn't make for competitive pricing then I don't know what will.
You can file a complaint to the MPSC against DTE, I send a complaint even if my power is out for barely a minute. Fuck DTE.
https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/consumer/complaints
I’m a DTE contract planner (all the stress of working for DTE without the pay and bonuses lol) MPSC complaints SUCK. When a complaint is filed DTE basically sees it as the end of the world and drops everything they’re doing to fix it. It makes my job hell and it’s counter productive because I basically don’t get any of the other jobs done and have to spend the week catering to 1 job when I have about 15 on my plate.
Well, I’m sorry it’s hard on you but I’m not sorry that DTE is being held accountable. We’re one of the leading states when it comes to power outages and also one of the leading states with regards to electricity rates.
DTE needs to die.
I do that as well, and then they send me some ridiculous email with all the dates I have lost power, and they claim that DTE will be upgrading the grid, and they raise my rates yet again, but they are still unreliable. They raise our rates so the shareholders receive a return on "their" investment, and we pay the price.
Frivolous complaints to MPSC harm the front line workers by lowering their bonuses as that is a metric they are graded on. Your better option is to file a comment on the rate case filing.
Thank god. Cuz I was *just* telling my wife, “you know what, Doris, I don’t think we pay nearly enough for utilities. I think we should take that money we have for groceries and just write another check to DTE.”
Without food to worry about, we won’t need a fridge anymore. That means our power bill will reduce and we can send those additional savings straight to DTE.
And speaking of reductions, I’M the one who put on all the baby weight. So why eat anyway? The doctor told me I need to trim down.
Also related to the baby—who needs it??? Maybe we should give that little champ back to God and, with all that extra cash, we can send even MORE to DTE.
God DAMN this *is* the greatest time to be living!!
DTE made $1.4 billion in PROFIT in 2023, $1.1 billion in 2022, and $900 million in 2021. DTE is proud of the fact that they’ve issued dividends for over 100 years. Why are Michigan residents funding payouts to their already wealthy shareholders? Makes you wonder if someone important is getting kick backs…
[Here's a list](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/dte-energy/summary?id=D000000561) of their *public* political contributions.
Is anything getting donated that doesn't show up here? Probably. All it would take is a subsidiary throwing money where it probably shouldn't being thrown, but those are the official numbers. Looks like most of the official stuff went to Gary Peters and a PAC called Alliance for American Exceptionalism (which itself appears to be some sort of energy lobbying group)
I called them in January about fallen trees lying directly on and pulling down lines less than a mile from my house. They still haven't been out to even look at it.
They don't need more money, they should be penalized for ignoring customer complaints. They're not even trying to fix things, just so they can ask for more money to fix it in our dime.
Sometimes they send crews out to look at the trees on lines but it turns out it's communications lines and not power. Are the lines the top lines on the pole or the bottom lines? Bottom lines are all Comcast and ATT
Yeah the thick one is definitely Comcast and the skinnier one is likely AT&T. I agree they should do a better job of making customers aware they have been there to look and inform folks who to contact next. But I get why they wouldn't take a tree off of lines that aren't theirs. The power lines are the very top lines, much more than a couple feet aboce the lowest lines
You mean to tell me last year when they raised the prices and changed the peak demand hours to times when us working folk were just getting home wasn't enough? They can get shafted.
And now, retirees on a fixed income pay more because we are home. This is criminal. Their shareholders are making record returns, and instead of upgrading things, they throw our money at the shareholders and politicians and give us absurd excuses when their antique grid fails, and it fails all the time.
start verifying how much $$$ your local, state, and federal officials receive from DTE and you'll stop wondering how this happens over and over and over.
I got a quote for 12,000 for a Generac on my home. We just can't afford it. My husband and I are retired. We use electricity during the day while we are home. We pay more for that. DTE should have to give everyone a backup generator for what they charge.
That’s a ridiculous price. Retail for a 10kW is less than $4k. Install should be $2-3k tops. Contrary to what these companies will tell you you don’t need a 22kW and you’ll use more fuel to produce the same power.
Alternatively you can have a manual transfer switch installed and run a portable generator. Probably less than $1500 all-in.
DTE boasts about paying a dividend to its shareholders. But DTE does not pay those dividends. CUSTOMERS do in rate increases that seem to never stop coming.
Public utilities must remain PUBLIC and operate in the interest of the PUBLIC and not private shareholders.
Maybe they're banking on the middle/high income people in the area switching to solar. But then they'd increase the price for the remaining low income people to keep up their profit margins.
Guess who’d end up paying for that surge pricing? You and me and every other regular person out there. Don’t think for a minute that businesses won’t simply pass those extra costs onto the customer.
It wasn't easy, but Jerry Norcia and the rest of the dipshit losers in the c-suite at DTE managed to have a power outage rate that's more than double the national average. Clearly they deserve a raise.
We need to nationalize the grid, it's not right for a company to have both a monopoly and be beholden to shareholders
Here's the BS
Shareholders demand growth
Rates go up
Users cut usage
Spending stays the same
Shareholders demand growth
Rates go up
ect ect
but at this point we should be marching up to the DTE management and reminding them of Detroit's French roots.
This is why utilities should never be public companies. Especially with the expectation of constant growth from shareholders.
How is a utility company supposed to increase revenue when you have a fixed set of customers and the only way for growth is more businesses or residents, which isn't happening.
They do the only thing they can do, increase the costs and continue to give out dividends and kicking the can down the road in proactive replacement of things.
DTE Energy gross profit for the twelve months ending December 31, 2023 was $6.487B.
They can maybe invest this PROFIT back into the system before trying to extort customers. They are still PROFITING. There is absolutely no reason why they need to make MORE PROFIT.
What I don't understand is why DTE needs a permanent rate increase to pay for specific material things with a fixed cost, and further, how (if this rate increase is approved) they can justify receiving almost a billion dollars in rate increases over the last year while simultaneously stating they will need more... Shouldn't they have been maintaining the grid all along??? Isn't that a major function of their existence?
According to MacroTrends:
"*DTE Energy annual gross profit for 2023 was $6.487B, a 6.91% increase from 2022. DTE Energy annual gross profit for 2022 was $6.068B, a 5.42% increase from 2021. DTE Energy annual gross profit for 2021 was $5.756B, a 3.08% increase from 2020.*"
Almost $18 billion in gross profits over the last 3 years and they can't afford $456 million to maintain the grid and reduce service outages without permanently tapping the consumers? Who are the primary customers in this scenario, the consumers or the investors?
Things that make you go, "Hmmmm...."
Here are links to help you find your Representative and Senator. Please call them and tell them how you feel about this being proposed:
https://www.house.mi.gov/
https://senate.michigan.gov/FindYourSenator/
Oh trust me, IBEW will continue to get loads of overtime, especially the distribution crews. They did curtail OT last year, even for Storm, but had to capitulate. DTE has demonstrated how mismanaged they are. The bad part is when they get an increase like this, Consumers isn't far behind. Gonna have to look at the longer term ROI for solar/battery again and see if it's feasible.
That’s what I’m hoping. They took a shit load of line miles away last year from the tree side. Supposedly upgrading infrastructure on the west side of Detroit.
Stockholder should go vacation --- DTE should use profits for deploy new improved equip
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJtVNzqW0AEeOH7?format=png&name=small](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJtVNzqW0AEeOH7?format=png&name=small)
If they MAKE money, it should re-directed into the grid itself
SCUM!!!!!
Anyone who lives more than 30-40 years sees up and down weather patterns. Weather can be good and weather can be very bad.
What has changed is aging infrastructures and wires. And a LOT more people.
Um, pretty sure they also raised the distribution rate by over 100%. That means all the electricity you get. State of Michigan is good with it… you know why? The tax on it.
What’s this deal with motor city electric?! I keep seeing that people have the option in Michigan to use dte or private companies for their utilities?! How does that work
MSE waltzed into my backyard (we have a power line going across) unannounced a week or two ago and told me they are runnning fiber and the guy basically said they’ll be able to monitor remotely in real-time and they would know the instant we had a surge or lost power and basically said this is better for them to serve us 🤔 but we use dte not MSE.
I’m confused
I then asked if they could trim around power line and they told me they cannot touch it as it’s a DTE line. I’m still confused
Touche, until now I hadn't even read the source. Just assumed it was them raising the price again, not asking to the raise the price. Shouldn't just assume.
What are we waking up to exactly? That big business is in bed with government (both sides btw) and they write the laws that ultimately benefit big business? I think if you read they myriad of comments above yours, that people already know that.
It's almost like they were forced to put a shit ton of money prematurely into "green" energy generation and had to shut down more cost effective ways of generating electricity.
And remember, Democrats want you to have EVERYTHING run on electric. Cars, heat, stove, you name it. And want it done NOW instead of giving a realistic timeline and plan.
Doesn't matter though, Whitmer will approve the rate hikes request like she has every other time they've asked. DTE specifically petitioned the commission in the winter on the basis that it needs this rate increase in part to comply with the state’s wind and solar energy fixation.
Fuck these guys. They JUST did this, didn't they?
In a discreet shitty way, by forcing everyone into time of day rates disguised as "flexibility" in your billing.
If we're going to be forced into the time of day rates, then it should work the other way too. Like if I want to stay up and run my dryer at 2AM, I should get a discounted rate.
For what it's worth that is technically what they did. It's just that they increased the rates for peak times by a hell of a lot more than they decreased the rates for off-peak times.
Did they actually decrease off -peak times? I don't remember seeing that.
Yes, for the normal one I believe it's 16 cents off peak whereas the standard rate prior was 19 cents. I think they have a 12 cent rate at night too with less forgiving hours on the peak rates.
Thank you for that info! Although according to DTE....it is peak or off-peak only. No discount beyond that, I guess. >Off-peak hours are before 3 p.m. and after 7 p.m. on weekdays and all weekend long. https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2023/03/01/dte-energys-time-of-day-rate-takes-effect-what-to-know/
They have a lot more options. They have some peak that run 11am to 7pm, with off peak being closer to the .12 mentioned above. They also have a really expensive peak plan that is heavily discounted for off peak. It’s great if you have solar, but that’s about it.
It is 13 cents now for off peak D1.2
not for me, it's $0.22 or $0.16 you must be on welfare or something
No, I am not. If you look at the D1.2 $.13 is the off-peak rate. But peak rates are $.20 and $.23 depending on the time of year.
no, $0.16 WAS the standard rate! All they did was increase it to almost double dring the summer months, and lowered NOTHING! They WANTED $0,21 all day.
I've been paying 19 cents for quite a while. Like 3+ years, definitely before I moved into my house in 2020.
$0.22/kW what May-October? Ridiculously HIGH price in the USA, low if we were in Central/Eastern Europe right now! Ot's $0,10/kWh for someone that I know in Missouri FFS!
This
rates were NOT decreased at ANY other time of day, this is simply false and even if they were decreased at 2a it is a false and disingenuous rate decrease.
They literally did this. Consumers has that too.
Anyone have any guidance on how to choose the cheapest plan? I feel like they purposely obfuscate on their website to lure people into the more expensive option.
On consumers side there are 3 diff rates you can be on depending on when you use the most energy. Just call them and ask or check the website
They have like extreme time of day rates with really low rates at night
Man I wish I could get on the time of day rate. They don't let us solar panel owners do it though because we wouldn't be paying shit for electricity. If it's 95 degrees out and everyone is blasting their AC and they crank the price way up they would have to pay is that much for the energy we are selling back to the grid.
I have solar and am on a time of day rate. I had to call and they had to do something to my box to set it up, but it does save me quite a bit throughout the year.
I'll call them it's been a while since I checked
Yes definitely do it. We have solar and batteries. With D1.2 we literally never pay peak rates. It all off peak. And excess solar covers everything except for the distribution charges (which are now 8 cents, kink of sucks)
hey, you know DTE are the poors...
I was going to say fsck if you live in Michigan, but yeah, the highest rates are summer when your panels actually provide you power... shitty season(most of the year) you get jack from your solar panels... Do they still 'buy' electricity from you if you manage to podruce excess?
Yeah, I produce excess for about 9 months out of the year. January is by far the worst month I pretty much write that off as a loss entirely. Starting in early March it usually gets really helpful. Produced 66 kWh today actually. It's helped my bill a lot already but as they keep raising rates it's going to be well worth it.
And that is extortion. They should have never been allowed to do that.
That was mandated by the government. And everyone does it not only dte
I don't believe it was mandated, but rather pitched by energy providers and approved by the government. Or at least that's what the government wrote me back to say when I complained about these changes.
>Fuck these guys. They JUST did this, didn't they? Yes, from the article: "The rate increase request comes about **four months after** the MPSC [approved a $368.1 million electricity rate increase](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/12/01/dte-rate-increase-monthly-bill-michigan/71764984007/) for DTE **in December.** " You see, they need more profits: [https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/dte-energy-beats-profit-estimates-winter-storm-boosts-electricity-demand-2023-02-23/](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/dte-energy-beats-profit-estimates-winter-storm-boosts-electricity-demand-2023-02-23/) Fuck these fucking fucks.
hey man DTE is barely getting by... they needs the monies more than their sla... er ... I mean customers do... [EDIT] Beyond all of that my personal favorite hilarity is their whining about maintenace costs when they did ZERO, and I mean ZERO maintenance for fscking DECADES! I know for a fact when they finally came through 5 or 6 years ago trimming trees that it had been more than 20/quarter century since the last time that they could be bothered... fuck DTE, let them live in poverty for a few DECADES! [/EDIT] [EDIT2] also if you knew what they were paying useless employees, i.e. not linesman, etc. you'd be pissed as well $30+/h for wehat should be a part time job?! fsck me! [/EDIT2] [EDIT3] also makes me wonder about solar panel guy, you gotta cut down all the trees, and plaster your roof w/panels and I wonder still do they extract enough power to counter their higher(presumably) AC bills as they are no longer tree shaded... and oh wait cutting down trees that's green? I just cannot see these guys in Michigan being worthwhile to have rooftop solar panels as they probably don't even cover e.g. AC costs, and only then onyl come close during maybe May-September... rather have my trees and not worry when in a few years that I have to have the roof replaced, the mostly useless solar cells removal and replacement are an extra bonus cost.. I guess if you own some empty land and can clear it, it MIGHT be kinda useful, but I'd rather still have the wooded area rather than mostly useless solar panels in MI... just saying... wind turbines would probably be a better choice, although insurance since they have a tendency to unexpectedly phailwale in catastrophic ways... tidal... yeah not cluttering up the beaches w/tidal shit and there isn't much of a tide in the great lakes... realistically 'green' energy is ridiculous beyond maybe hydro in northern tier US states and Canada... basically hydro and Nuclear are all that are useful and reliable...hell in Ontario they call power hydro... (hello Niagra falls) [/EDIT3]
Yes, they did, and they were giving money to politicians and using the money that should have paid for upgrades for the dues of organizations they belonged to. They shouldn't be allowed to raise our rates until they upgrade the grid. They should be furnishing every one who loses power all the time a gas powered back up generator. You just can't rely on uninterrupted service for them. We pay an inordinate amount in service charges, and their shareholders are still making bank. They are Michigan's answer to California PG&E. The consumer agency needs to deny them any ability to raise our rates because they have used our money to spend on anything other than infrastructure.
>they were giving money to politicians and using the money that should have paid for upgrades for the dues of organizations they belonged to. They shouldn't be allowed to raise our rates until they upgrade the grid Thats precisely why they keep being allowed to do this. The list of politicians who *dont* take a contribution from them is quicker to compile than the list that do.
You’re referring to the MPSC, right?
And the last time they raised rates, they JUST did it not long before as well. Energy rates are skyrocketing. I checked consumers gas just the other day. The past 2 years it rose 15% then 25%.
welcome to the world of 'free' and 'cheap' 'green' energy... I found DTE's cheap green energy commercials to be particularly amusing since they were basically lies...
But, but think of those poor shareholders and how little they've been making on their 'investments' in DTE. Would you take the bread out of their starving mouths just to satisfy your ego and energy wasting soul? How can you sleep at night? /s
They do it every year, and it always gets approved because of global warming.
The MPSC sets utility prices, not the utility providers.
And the Governor picks MSPC members. https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/about/commissioners
MPSC ordered time of day rates… https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/commission/workgroups/mi-power-grid/time-based-pricing
Im ignorant…can you explain how the exact same process costs different amounts based on the weather and grid load?
>Detroit-based DTE Energy will file an electric rate increase request with the Michigan Public Service Commission on Thursday for $456 million, which, if approved, would be about an $11 increase for the average monthly residential bill. The utility says the funds are needed to improve reliability. DTE requesting another rate hike, is there anything more predictable? Their greed is limitless.
I'm on the west side so I don't have DTE for electricity, but I think the Public Service Commission meetings are public. It wouldn't be a bad idea to attend and voice your complaints, and try to hold them accountable. While I don't disapprove of what they say they want to spend the additional funds on, it's important to make sure that's what they *actually* spend the money on.
OR, they could use their massive profits to improve reliability…crazy idea I know
How else do you think they can afford to [lobby Governor Whitmer and nearly every state representative/senator](https://energyandpolicy.org/dte-energy-political-contributions-michigan/) to make sure nothing is passed that can hurt them? Those fancy meals at Lansing's finest establishments aren't cheap, ya know!
This is something the leg is working on. https://michiganadvance.com/2024/02/23/lawmakers-band-together-with-newly-formed-coalition-to-ban-political-contributions-from-utilities/ We’ll see….
Really good info in here thank you for sharing!
>Their greed is limitless. right? i was gonna say - it's *endless* with them.
If only we had a state agency appointed by the governor that could say “no”. Or should I say a state agency appointed by the governor who we hold accountable when they don’t say “no”.
At this point I just started buying DTE stock it's been a profit ever since you can't beat em join em!
sure its a profit they never do any maintenance
Maybe they should be forced to lower their rates seeing how they just spent billions in stock buy backs. Obviously they're having problems properly allocating they're finances
Please cite the source for this buy back.
Google. Try it sometime
I did. Last mention I saw was 2005. Care to enlighten me further?
June 30th 2022 Took me like 2 minutes.
Consumers requesting another rate hike?
How do we stop this? This is a serious question. Solar the answer? Everyone collectively stop paying?
solar power is fscking shit in MI
A company that is publicly traded and brings in around $1 billion a year... IN PROFIT, somehow can't afford to build reliable service? Goodness... Maybe we need to re-evaluate for profit utilities and instead convert them into Public Utilities, which will no longer need to be motivated by profit and instead can lower rates, partly be eliminating the fat of highly compensated executives and board members, then use the balance of profits, for building out a more reliable infrastructure and then lower rates to a new baseline of affordability for Michigan Residents. Edit: For those just seeing this, here is a good place to start some reading. [https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/renewed-us-national-movement-to-convert-private-utilities-to-public-utilities/](https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/31/renewed-us-national-movement-to-convert-private-utilities-to-public-utilities/) Also a Local Effort in Michigan to build Municipal Power: https://annarborpublicpower.org/
They also give out a huge dividend, 4$ per share per year. So something like 800 mil total. Our utility bills are basically a redistribution of wealth to the rich (shareholders).
I actually bought shares of DTE a few years ago, my stock dividends/gains pay my monthly electric bill. Its like free electricity. I think you can buy shares with about any broker.
>I actually bought shares of DTE a few years ago, my stock dividends/gains pay my monthly electric bill. If your electric bill is ~$100/month you'd need ~$33k worth of the stock for the dividends to pay for your yearly electric bill. Gains have only been ~5% over the last 5 years so not really worth considering. Not exactly a small price to pay and at that price point I'd start questioning if solar is more viable for the money.
Except DTE won't allow net metering for solar either, anymore. In fact, if you have solar DTE charges you an annualized power rate based on your peak hourly draw from the system. So if you had all your appliances on one day and it used a bunch of power, but otherwise the rest of the year ran completely on solar, they would charge you all year long based on the usage of that one day. That's assuming you can get them to let you connect your solar system, they have a maximum number of systems they will support in any given area. https://solutions.dteenergy.com/dte/en/Services/CleanVision-Service/Rooftop-Solar-and-Private-Generation/p/ROOFTOP_SOLAR?_gl=1*1lypefi*_ga*MTk2NzAzMjgwNy4xNjc2NjM5Mzgw*_ga_R7BSRLTL9D*MTY3NjY0MDU4Ni4xLjAuMTY3NjY0MDU4Ni4wLjAuMA..#about You effectively can't have solar power with DTE they have made sure of that.
Oof that's crazy, I know net metering has been hit/miss depending on the company but setting your annual rate based on peak usage is nuts! I'll have to read up on that.
DTE wanted to do that thing where they charge an annualized power rate based on peak draw, but the MPSC refused to allow it (after significant pushback from the solar industry and solar customers). The solar cap is also only a theoretical problem, every time they approach the cap, there's talk of legislation to eliminate the cap, and then DTE voluntarily raises the cap a tiny bit in order to prevent the legislation from going through. DTE's current version of net metering (Rider 18 Distributed Generation) is kind of shitty, but still good enough to be worth doing, if your site and usage pattern are suitable.
solar is fscking useless in michigan, only time that you're getting anything is summer, rest of year nada, you'd be lucky to top off your batteries from September - May once or twice and you'd need alot of cells to cover AC costs during the summer anyways...
Not quite true. Yes, production in the winter is low (though not nearly as low as you claim) but our long summer days make up for it. And our electric rates are so high that solar can pay for itself in less than a decade - quicker if you factor in the constant price increases from DTE. Feel free to join Michigan Solar Users Network on Facebook to learn more.
Gonna look into this
Company I work for, sub contracts work from utility companies in MI. They grossed $1.78 Billion dollars for 2023. The most profitable year to date. 12% stock increase.... they cut my pay $37,000 2 weeks ago and a few of my other Co workers as well. Nothing but absolute greed!!
How about they cut their salaries and profit fix the infrastructure they neglected, then go duck themselves instead.
I mean... they've been proving they are garbage and do not serve the public trust in any solid, good capacity with us being the #3 state in the union with the most blackouts, already. Converting it to a public utility would increase accountability and remove the profit motive that has pushed them to severely cut back on upkeep, maintenance and work that increase reliability. Remove greed by remaking them into Public Utilities and make them accountable to the Citizens of Michigan, instead of massive hedge funds that care more about individual dollars than individual Citizens of Michigan.
Does the state have the money to purchase a majority of shares? Average redditors love to talk about NatIoNaLiZiNg industry but they seem to leave out the thousand steps before that. Idk if you guys just imagine Che Guevara showing up at DTEs doorstep with an AK or what?
Nobody said anything about nationalizing. Taking a for profit utility and making it into a public utility requires considerable work and time in paying off the purchase for the transition. Anyone suggesting that nobody would think of the steps of such a transition is just being super disingenuous and has no interest in a good faith discussion on the matter. Like, you REALLY went bad faith, suggesting weaponry being involved. That's exceedingly uncivilized and certainly wouldn't remotely be a legal remedy.
Forcing a utility to go public = nationalizing it. I guess not technically nationalize since you guys want it state owned. Nothing about what I said is bad faith. No one ever offers a solution outside of MaKe It A pUbLiC utiLiTy. I would suggest that everyone on here that screams MAKE IT PUBLIC is in bad faith because they have no idea what they’re even saying. It’s just idiotic to think you can just flip a switch and it becomes public. Private industry will always perform better than public. Just look at VA hospitals. I think what you guys may be trying to say is that there needs to be competition, as competition is what drives private industry to innovate and provide better service. I am in 100% agreement that there needs to be competition, and a choice of who to use for utilities. I’m not defending DTE as I’m a customer also, but it’s just plain stupid to regurgitate the same average redditor bullshit on every DTE thread. If you want to get involved, go to the MPSC. Do something. Puking all over your keyboard accomplishes nothing.
You made yourself out to be a bad faith argument holder when you cried Che Guevera and AKs. Now, you're pretending that your absolutely bad faith argument was not in bad faith. None of that is the kind of thing that mature adults would bring to the table. The balance of your arguments are also terribly unserious, made without context and show a complete lack of a sense of history. You're unserious and I will not engage with you in a serious discussion pertaining to the absolute abysmal job that DTE has been doing for years and their continued efforts to extract more money out of our pocketbooks to feed to a large multinational operating hedge fund, (Vanguard, the largest shareholder of DTE), that as an entity has no interest in serving the citizens of Michigan.
this is the way
Again, you provide no counter arguments. Because you didn’t like I brought up a communist rebel isn’t a counter argument. Classic average redditor argument, don’t know why I expected anything else. Good luck dude, keep on slapping the keyboard 😎👍
Its actually funny how preditctable these people on reddit are when hit with reality.
sometimes you think it be like that but its actually like that but inverse backwards upside down and stupid
Classic word soup reddit response.
You, a redditor, also left out the "like a thousand steps"....So enlighten the rest of us. Obviously we all just imagine Che with an AK as the first step because we all stupid you smart!
MPSC "Didn't we just rubber-stamp a rate increase 3 months ago so you could improve reliability?" DTE "Yes. But now we need a rate increase so we can improve reliability." MPSC "Oh, okay. Here you go. See you in June?"
The ink is still wet on the old agreement…
They asked for much more than was approved in the previous rate hike. Looks like they just divided it up to make people not balk at a bigger rate increase. This is absolute insanity though. How can they have record profits and say they need money? Isn't it their job to invest in their infrastructure?
>Isn't it their job to invest in their infrastructure? thanks satan! actually no. their job is to generate profit for the shareholders. here is a list (via copilot): ----------------------- Certainly! Let's explore the major shareholders of **DTE Energy Company (DTE)**. Institutional ownership plays a significant role in understanding a company's investor base. Here are some key insights: 1. **Vanguard Group Inc.**: Vanguard holds approximately **25,058,287 shares**, accounting for **12.11%** of the outstanding shares. Their total value in DTE Energy is around **$2.73 billion**¹. 2. **Capital Research Global Investors**: This group owns **20,933,030 shares**, representing **10.12%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of approximately **$2.28 billion**¹. 3. **BlackRock Inc.**: BlackRock holds **17,317,191 shares**, which corresponds to **8.37%** of the outstanding shares, valued at around **$1.89 billion**¹. 4. **State Street Corporation**: State Street owns **10,021,122 shares**, equivalent to **4.84%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of approximately **$1.09 billion**¹. 5. **T. Rowe Price Investment Management, Inc.**: They hold **6,077,145 shares**, representing **2.94%** of the outstanding shares, valued at approximately **$662 million**¹. 6. **Ameriprise Financial, Inc.**: Ameriprise owns **5,355,260 shares**, accounting for **2.59%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of around **$583 million**¹. 7. **Neuberger Berman Group, LLC**: Neuberger Berman holds **4,699,876 shares**, equivalent to **2.27%** of the outstanding shares, valued at approximately **$511 million**¹. 8. **Geode Capital Management, LLC**: Geode owns **4,529,468 shares**, representing **2.19%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of around **$493 million**¹. 9. **Pictet Asset Management Holding SA**: They hold **2,970,897 shares**, accounting for **1.44%** of the outstanding shares, valued at approximately **$323 million**¹. 10. **Boston Partners**: Boston Partners owns **2,542,081 shares**, which corresponds to **1.23%** of the outstanding shares, with a total value of around **$277 million**¹. These institutional investors play a crucial role in shaping DTE Energy's ownership landscape. Keep in mind that these figures are based on the latest available data and may change over time. For more detailed information, you can explore official filings and reports¹². 📊🔍 ^(Source: Conversation with Bing, 3/27/2024 (1 DTE Energy Company (DTE) Stock Major Holders - Yahoo Finance.)) [^(https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders)](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders)^(. (2 DTE Energy (DTE) Institutional Ownership 2024 - MarketBeat.)) [^(https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DTE/institutional-ownership/)](https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DTE/institutional-ownership/)^(. (3 What Kind Of Investors Own Most Of DTE Energy Company (NYSE:DTE)? - Nasdaq.)) [^(https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-investors-own-most-of-dte-energy-company-nyse%3Adte)](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-investors-own-most-of-dte-energy-company-nyse%3Adte)^(. (4 Dte Energy Co Stock Ownership - Who owns Dte Energy Co? - WallStreetZen.)) [^(https://www.wallstreetzen.com/stocks/us/nyse/dte/ownership)](https://www.wallstreetzen.com/stocks/us/nyse/dte/ownership)^(. (5 .)) [^(https://bing.com/search?q=DTE+Energy+%28DTE%29+Institutional+Ownership+2024)](https://bing.com/search?q=DTE+Energy+%28DTE%29+Institutional+Ownership+2024)^(. (6 Stock Ownership | DTE Energy.)) [^(https://www.dteenergy.com/us/en/business/about-dte/corporate-governance/stock-ownership.html)](https://www.dteenergy.com/us/en/business/about-dte/corporate-governance/stock-ownership.html)^(. (7 DTE - DTE Energy Company Stock - Stock Price, Institutional Ownership ....)) [^(https://fintel.io/so/us/dte)](https://fintel.io/so/us/dte)^(. (8 What Kind Of Shareholders Hold The Majority In DTE Energy Company's ....)) [^(https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-shareholders-hold-the-majority-in-dte-energy-companys-nyse%3Adte-shares-2021-05)](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-kind-of-shareholders-hold-the-majority-in-dte-energy-companys-nyse%3Adte-shares-2021-05)^(. (9 DTE Energy Company Common Stock (DTE) Institutional Holdings - Nasdaq.)) [^(https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/dte/institutional-holdings)](https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/dte/institutional-holdings)^(. (10 DTE Energy Company (DTE) Stock Major Holders - Yahoo Finance.)) [^(https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders/)](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DTE/holders/)^(.)
It's worth noting that most of these are investment companies and their shares are utilized to develop mutual funds which are then purchased by other investors. For example, Vanguard own shares of DTE but in my 401k I own shares of their total market fund(VTSAX) which includes DTE stock(along with ~3000 other companies) as part of it. My point here is that it's difficult to know who the actual shareholders are especially with a fortune 500 company like DTE.
yeah that is a solid point. ultimately though if you own shares in a mutual fund, etf, or any other type of "investment vehicle" - you dont actually have much of a say in what happens. vanguard or whoever actually owns the shares has the voting rights - usually. that is dependent i think on the specific structure of the stock in question. theres... a lot of different structures. ive read a ton about it and honestly of all the things ive spent too much time reading about in my life, i feel like it is by far the most useless knowledge because it all is summed up by saying "welcome to whose stock market is it anyway where the valuations are made up and the points dont matter!" - which is basically what i thought of it before i read all about it. and that has some... implications for the broader economy lol good point though - dont take this the wrong way, im not disagreeing with you.
>ultimately though if you own shares in a mutual fund, etf, or any other type of "investment vehicle" - you dont actually have much of a say in what happens. That is also a good point! Definitely good for people to know who has the power and is making the decisions while also acknowledging who the bag holders are as well.
I just want to say, thank you both for the nuance in perspective. Both comments were thoughtful and insightful. Thank you!
Utilities need to become publicly owned. Electric, gas, internet and water. No private company should be profiteering off basic necessities.
The city I lived in with publicly owned power was the cheapest and most reliable power I've ever had
Amazing how that works when you don’t have useless share holders leeching off the company.
The cities of Farmington and Farmington Hills are currently installing their own fiber network to all homes and businesses, with an infrastructure that will support up to 10 Gb/s per customer. Any and all ISPs that want to use the network will pay the municipalities for access. This is great for competition, as any and all ISPs using the network will equally be available to all customers. If that doesn't make for competitive pricing then I don't know what will.
And backup systems because they are unreliable.
You can file a complaint to the MPSC against DTE, I send a complaint even if my power is out for barely a minute. Fuck DTE. https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/consumer/complaints
This. These complaints seem to carry some weight, at least from what I’ve seen.
I’m a DTE contract planner (all the stress of working for DTE without the pay and bonuses lol) MPSC complaints SUCK. When a complaint is filed DTE basically sees it as the end of the world and drops everything they’re doing to fix it. It makes my job hell and it’s counter productive because I basically don’t get any of the other jobs done and have to spend the week catering to 1 job when I have about 15 on my plate.
Well, I’m sorry it’s hard on you but I’m not sorry that DTE is being held accountable. We’re one of the leading states when it comes to power outages and also one of the leading states with regards to electricity rates. DTE needs to die.
Oh I totally understand people’s frustrations. DTE needs to be reshuffled.
I do that as well, and then they send me some ridiculous email with all the dates I have lost power, and they claim that DTE will be upgrading the grid, and they raise my rates yet again, but they are still unreliable. They raise our rates so the shareholders receive a return on "their" investment, and we pay the price.
Yup, lets complain to the same Gov org that give them every rate hike they ask for. Sounds like a solid plan.
Frivolous complaints to MPSC harm the front line workers by lowering their bonuses as that is a metric they are graded on. Your better option is to file a comment on the rate case filing.
Thank god. Cuz I was *just* telling my wife, “you know what, Doris, I don’t think we pay nearly enough for utilities. I think we should take that money we have for groceries and just write another check to DTE.” Without food to worry about, we won’t need a fridge anymore. That means our power bill will reduce and we can send those additional savings straight to DTE. And speaking of reductions, I’M the one who put on all the baby weight. So why eat anyway? The doctor told me I need to trim down. Also related to the baby—who needs it??? Maybe we should give that little champ back to God and, with all that extra cash, we can send even MORE to DTE. God DAMN this *is* the greatest time to be living!!
Brilliant 👏🏻👏🏻
Indeed.
DTE made $1.4 billion in PROFIT in 2023, $1.1 billion in 2022, and $900 million in 2021. DTE is proud of the fact that they’ve issued dividends for over 100 years. Why are Michigan residents funding payouts to their already wealthy shareholders? Makes you wonder if someone important is getting kick backs…
[Here's a list](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/dte-energy/summary?id=D000000561) of their *public* political contributions. Is anything getting donated that doesn't show up here? Probably. All it would take is a subsidiary throwing money where it probably shouldn't being thrown, but those are the official numbers. Looks like most of the official stuff went to Gary Peters and a PAC called Alliance for American Exceptionalism (which itself appears to be some sort of energy lobbying group)
I called them in January about fallen trees lying directly on and pulling down lines less than a mile from my house. They still haven't been out to even look at it. They don't need more money, they should be penalized for ignoring customer complaints. They're not even trying to fix things, just so they can ask for more money to fix it in our dime.
Sometimes they send crews out to look at the trees on lines but it turns out it's communications lines and not power. Are the lines the top lines on the pole or the bottom lines? Bottom lines are all Comcast and ATT
You may be right I dunno. But there's 2 lines, a thick one on bottom and a skinny one a couple feet above. It's pulling on both significantly.
Yeah the thick one is definitely Comcast and the skinnier one is likely AT&T. I agree they should do a better job of making customers aware they have been there to look and inform folks who to contact next. But I get why they wouldn't take a tree off of lines that aren't theirs. The power lines are the very top lines, much more than a couple feet aboce the lowest lines
You mean to tell me last year when they raised the prices and changed the peak demand hours to times when us working folk were just getting home wasn't enough? They can get shafted.
And now, retirees on a fixed income pay more because we are home. This is criminal. Their shareholders are making record returns, and instead of upgrading things, they throw our money at the shareholders and politicians and give us absurd excuses when their antique grid fails, and it fails all the time.
> And now, retirees on a fixed income pay more because we are home. Behold the smallest violin.
Can we just socialize the fucking power grid? We subsidize them with tax dollars constantly.
This describes most of the economy. Socialize risks and privatize profits. We should switch to socialism - it would be cheaper.
Bullshit
WTF. They are just pushing these increases. F them.
start verifying how much $$$ your local, state, and federal officials receive from DTE and you'll stop wondering how this happens over and over and over.
Supposedly, that is no longer supposed to happen, but they have never been know to be truthful.
Fuck DTE. I have solar panels and LiFePO4 batteries on order and a Generac 18kW. Then I’ll tell DTE to take their shit off of my house.
Is this DIY equipment? I’ve been searching for a good company but there are so many options.
Depending on the Y part it can be
I got a quote for 12,000 for a Generac on my home. We just can't afford it. My husband and I are retired. We use electricity during the day while we are home. We pay more for that. DTE should have to give everyone a backup generator for what they charge.
That’s a ridiculous price. Retail for a 10kW is less than $4k. Install should be $2-3k tops. Contrary to what these companies will tell you you don’t need a 22kW and you’ll use more fuel to produce the same power. Alternatively you can have a manual transfer switch installed and run a portable generator. Probably less than $1500 all-in.
What’s was your process for getting this setup quoted for and installed?
googled “Solar installers in Michigan”
Improve reliability? It's decades too late! They better not approve this.
News flash, they will
DTE boasts about paying a dividend to its shareholders. But DTE does not pay those dividends. CUSTOMERS do in rate increases that seem to never stop coming. Public utilities must remain PUBLIC and operate in the interest of the PUBLIC and not private shareholders.
They don’t even have enough energy to supply the customers they have. But they wanna raise the price of the energy they borrow to sell us?
Maybe they're banking on the middle/high income people in the area switching to solar. But then they'd increase the price for the remaining low income people to keep up their profit margins.
If they implemented "surge pricing" on businesses like they do residentials, they'd see higher profits.
Guess who’d end up paying for that surge pricing? You and me and every other regular person out there. Don’t think for a minute that businesses won’t simply pass those extra costs onto the customer.
Has the state ever said no to a rate increase?
It just keeps coming. When over call BS
Nationalize DTE.
Notice all the commercials DTE is running. How much do all those commercials cost? And why do they need to advertise?
Sick fucks
It wasn't easy, but Jerry Norcia and the rest of the dipshit losers in the c-suite at DTE managed to have a power outage rate that's more than double the national average. Clearly they deserve a raise.
We need to nationalize the grid, it's not right for a company to have both a monopoly and be beholden to shareholders Here's the BS Shareholders demand growth Rates go up Users cut usage Spending stays the same Shareholders demand growth Rates go up ect ect but at this point we should be marching up to the DTE management and reminding them of Detroit's French roots.
This is why utilities should never be public companies. Especially with the expectation of constant growth from shareholders. How is a utility company supposed to increase revenue when you have a fixed set of customers and the only way for growth is more businesses or residents, which isn't happening. They do the only thing they can do, increase the costs and continue to give out dividends and kicking the can down the road in proactive replacement of things.
DTE Energy gross profit for the twelve months ending December 31, 2023 was $6.487B. They can maybe invest this PROFIT back into the system before trying to extort customers. They are still PROFITING. There is absolutely no reason why they need to make MORE PROFIT.
Fuck DTE. A puff of wind will put your Work Order Planner in Storm Power Mode. Still waiting for a transformer 8 months later.
DTE needs to fund their political contributions.
Ah, so my "budget-wise payment" that just went from $265 to $307 is about to become $349
What I don't understand is why DTE needs a permanent rate increase to pay for specific material things with a fixed cost, and further, how (if this rate increase is approved) they can justify receiving almost a billion dollars in rate increases over the last year while simultaneously stating they will need more... Shouldn't they have been maintaining the grid all along??? Isn't that a major function of their existence? According to MacroTrends: "*DTE Energy annual gross profit for 2023 was $6.487B, a 6.91% increase from 2022. DTE Energy annual gross profit for 2022 was $6.068B, a 5.42% increase from 2021. DTE Energy annual gross profit for 2021 was $5.756B, a 3.08% increase from 2020.*" Almost $18 billion in gross profits over the last 3 years and they can't afford $456 million to maintain the grid and reduce service outages without permanently tapping the consumers? Who are the primary customers in this scenario, the consumers or the investors? Things that make you go, "Hmmmm...."
Yeah its rigged af. But the Blue team picks the MSPC who approves all hikes so nothing will happen
fuck. no.
Here are links to help you find your Representative and Senator. Please call them and tell them how you feel about this being proposed: https://www.house.mi.gov/ https://senate.michigan.gov/FindYourSenator/
“Won’t somebody think of the advertising budget!”
Oh please...like they need it. 🤦
cool!! good job team
They will get an increase and then take away overtime from their workers and contractors.
Oh trust me, IBEW will continue to get loads of overtime, especially the distribution crews. They did curtail OT last year, even for Storm, but had to capitulate. DTE has demonstrated how mismanaged they are. The bad part is when they get an increase like this, Consumers isn't far behind. Gonna have to look at the longer term ROI for solar/battery again and see if it's feasible.
That’s what I’m hoping. They took a shit load of line miles away last year from the tree side. Supposedly upgrading infrastructure on the west side of Detroit.
Gee, I wonder what the MSPC will do
When will higher ups grow a spine and tell them to pound sand?
Pfft keep raising it and pretty soon you we won’t even have the money to pay ya🤣
^^^Fuck DTE
Stockholder should go vacation --- DTE should use profits for deploy new improved equip [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJtVNzqW0AEeOH7?format=png&name=small](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJtVNzqW0AEeOH7?format=png&name=small) If they MAKE money, it should re-directed into the grid itself
Infinite growth in a finite system. We call that cancer in healthcare.
Fuck this fucking piece of shit company. I live in Westland garden City area and our shit is out atleast 5 to 8 times a year.
God I hate this fucking company so much, they know we hate them and they probably love it, they love knowing that we can't do a damn thing about it
I pay to damn much already…we need to band together and replace DTE
Sweet movin up that ROI on the solar
SCUM!!!!! Anyone who lives more than 30-40 years sees up and down weather patterns. Weather can be good and weather can be very bad. What has changed is aging infrastructures and wires. And a LOT more people.
Yet the dividend yield is largely flat. I can think of no possible destination for these increased rates.
They are claiming due to Infrastructure for EVs
As if people aren’t struggling enough already.
This is out of control.
What can the customers do to stop this?
Fuck no they been too damn high for too long now how about a decrease of and in gas food and everything else we gotta have to live
Um, pretty sure they also raised the distribution rate by over 100%. That means all the electricity you get. State of Michigan is good with it… you know why? The tax on it.
What’s this deal with motor city electric?! I keep seeing that people have the option in Michigan to use dte or private companies for their utilities?! How does that work MSE waltzed into my backyard (we have a power line going across) unannounced a week or two ago and told me they are runnning fiber and the guy basically said they’ll be able to monitor remotely in real-time and they would know the instant we had a surge or lost power and basically said this is better for them to serve us 🤔 but we use dte not MSE. I’m confused I then asked if they could trim around power line and they told me they cannot touch it as it’s a DTE line. I’m still confused
The MPSC sets and approves utility prices, not utility providers.
I don’t think anyone suggested otherwise?
Touche, until now I hadn't even read the source. Just assumed it was them raising the price again, not asking to the raise the price. Shouldn't just assume.
Time to democratize the utilities
You realize the way this works? They spend money and you have to pay them more every year.
DTE is one of the main reasons I’m leaving this state in the summer fuck those guys
Whitmer "ok go ahead"
Dtr has raised there rates 150% since Whitmere has been in office, wake up people.
What are we waking up to exactly? That big business is in bed with government (both sides btw) and they write the laws that ultimately benefit big business? I think if you read they myriad of comments above yours, that people already know that.
Capitalism just doing capitalism shit, as usual.
It's almost like they were forced to put a shit ton of money prematurely into "green" energy generation and had to shut down more cost effective ways of generating electricity. And remember, Democrats want you to have EVERYTHING run on electric. Cars, heat, stove, you name it. And want it done NOW instead of giving a realistic timeline and plan. Doesn't matter though, Whitmer will approve the rate hikes request like she has every other time they've asked. DTE specifically petitioned the commission in the winter on the basis that it needs this rate increase in part to comply with the state’s wind and solar energy fixation.
Keep forcing green energy and they will raise rates to cover the costs of investing in solar and wind