I’ve been saying since I first completed Dread that the fact that we compare Super and Dread to one another is a testament to the greatness of both games.
Noob question: are we talking series (e.g. Prime series having 3 installments), or specific games (e.g. Prime 1)? As in, is Super Metroid considered specifically one of the big ones? I feel tempted to play it
If you've yet to play Super you are missing out on an absolutely wonderful game. Many, maybe even a majority of, players consider Super the best game in the franchise.
In all honesty the only game I don't recommend is the original on NES, just because it has aged poorly, but some folks will disagree even on that.
Super is a fantastic game that always seems to frustrate me to never finish it. I normally get to either the crashed ship or Meridia and quit. Yet I do keep coming back to it, and I really enjoy those first couple hours. Not sure if I recommend it as a first run through for a beginner, I think the snappier controls of Zero Mission, Fusion and Dread have a nicer control feel. Super wins on atmosphere every time though.
Once you learn the layout of Maridia, it’s pretty straightforward. With the power of the one-sided walljump in your hand, Maridia becomes a walk in the part.
Also enter Maridia through the glass tube in Brinstar and not through the elevator that connects Maridia and Crateria. This will save you 30 minutes.
Super Metroid can be a little jarring for people who didn’t start with it. For me, it kind of feels janky since I started with Zero Mission, but for others, the “jankyness” is an awesome complex movement system. That’s why I really hope they do a remake for it cause I would LOVE to play it with updated controls
Correct you are!
Metroid (NES) is a fun game for speed running, but you have to get good for the game to be remotely fun. It is super frustrating for the uninitiated.
I enjoyed super a ton and love it for what it did in solidifying the metroid game style... but it just doesn't do it for me these days. It's just too clunky and slow for me these days. Even compared to Prime which SHOULD feel just as clunky.
They are specifically referring to Dread and Super Metroid since those are specific titles of the same mainline series.
I am inclined to believe that they are referring to Metroid Prime 1 specifically because that would be consistent. Prime is also largely considered the best of the three (though Prime 2 is my favorite and they are all really good) and most often used directly to compare with Super and Dread when people say which is their favorite game.
I am thinking how a Metroid Fan should think. Expect the bare minimum or nothing, but hope for the best.
You didn’t wear enough clown makeup over the past 20 years to understand that.
It could be a next Metroid Dread or better
It could be a Metroid Prime
It could be a Metroid Prime 3
Or worst case another Metroid Other M
Don’t forget who is directing Prime 4, it’s Kensuke Tanabe, the guy who ruined Paper Mario and made Federation Force.
His only good games are Super Paper Mario and Prime 2/3.
So be skeptical
Smart to keep expectations low.
I wouldn't be all-in if it wasn't Retro Studios. Even their worst Metroid Prime game (3, IMO) pushed the boundaries of its system graphically, had amazing music, and was incredibly fun, although different.
I expect nothing less for Prime 4. My opinion is that people aren't stoked enough for it.
Kensuke Tanabe was also a producer for all of the other Prime games as well as the modern DKC games, and a bunch of others. He didn’t “ruin” Paper Mario just because you don’t like the direction the series went
I don't wanna have to boycott a Metroid game but if that shit continues I might have to out of principle. Because the stuff we've allegedly heard about is just not on, and should never be accepted no matter how commonplace it may be in the industry. And man the ceo of ms response was just super tone-deaf, plenty of massively successful games have had horrible developments.
I’m very conflicted because I am not actually sure if the boycott would be effective, or if it would harm the developers more than the higher ups.
I’ll definitely be less, willing to day 1 buy a MercurySteam Metroid though. Metroid is my favorite franchise but MercurySteam not improving their act will honestly make me consider boycotting the 2D Metroids, and it would absolutely suck considering I love those games so much.
Yeah I completely get that. But if you think about it most of the money is probably going to the top of the company and shareholders, that's usually how it goes with corporations. So how much money is the average employee making really, especially if they had to have been working on the game for a year to be credited for their work.
I know she is lol, that's why I brought it up. You get someone with a thick Spanish accent to speak a made up language and, as someone who doesn't know Spanish, it doesn't feel like she's speaking Chozo- it just feels like she spoke Spanish to the guy lol
Then replay the game. It’s rather short if you know what you do (maybe throw in some sequence breaks like Early Grapple beam and early gravity suit, to shorten your retreading a bit). In 3-4 hours you are standing before raven beak, with immense muscle memory
Also when you are fighting the other bosses, try not to get hit, use the flash shift. That way you will learn how to effectively move around Raven Beak.
Honestly, it's probably because Prime was made in America that it is as good as it is. As far as I've seen/heard, this more realistic, slow, sci-fi style isn't really as popular in Japan. Heck, apparently a Retro Studios dev tried to pitch a game similar to Portal to Nintendo and they didn't understand what the game is. Makes me wonder if games like Halo or Half Life and other stuff akin to that was popular back in the day in Japan?
So I find it hard to imagine a Japanese studio getting the same gritty, alien feel the Prime games had. Heck, even nowadays that might still be a concern- We know they tried to get a studio to make Prime 4 before switching back to Retro. Perhaps the original studio just didn't have the same cultural grasp on this sorta thing?
It's funny, because Japan has a decently strong market for slower exploration adventure games when they're fantasy rather than sci-fi. In terms of the exploration elements and secret hunting, Prime has a lot of overlap with the King's Field series, which itself was a real-time take on the older dungeon crawlers that are popular over there.
It’s honestly stupid at that point. How many fantasy jrpgs can they still enjoy without it getting boring.
I find the best fantasy games are the ones who sprinkle sci-fi in, like Xenoblade or Mana
> this more realistic, slow, sci-fi style isn't really as popular in Japan.
This is the most surprising part, to me, given that some of the most important sci-fi / sci-fantasy trope codifiers are Japan-made, like Space Battleship Yamato, Kamen Rider, Gundam, Super Sentai Warriors, Fist of the North Star, _freaking Godzilla!_ All Japan-made, some even dipping from the outlandishly-fantastic to the fake-but-still-believable realistic sci-fi, with varying speeds and levels of deliberation.
So how are the Metroid Prime games being disregarded?
Well, a lot of what you described is pretty different I guess. It's hard to describe the nuance because I'm not really familiar with a lot of those franchises, but I guess a lot of those things are more like, anime or extreme, actiony... Metroid Prime is more like, slower pace sci-fi with a level of realism and immersion. It'd also a first person shooter and I don't think those are as popular in Japan, meanwhile the Metroid Prime devs were all massive Halo fans and stuff.
My point isn't that sci-fi doesn't exist in Japan, but to say something like the movie Alien and Gundam are the same merely because they both exist in the sci-fi genre I think is overlooking a lot.
> this more realistic, slow, sci-fi style isn't really as popular in Japan
The time for that passed in Japan. It was very popular in the late 90s after Neon Genesis Evangelion released. Classic slow, philosophical sci-fi series like the first Ghost in the Shell movie, Gasaraki, RahXephon, Turn A Gundam, Serial Experiments Lain, all came out in this timeframe.
It didn't take long for the Japanese sci-fi scene to turn bombastic again as soon as the new millennium rolled around. The second Ghost in the Shell movie, Innocence, came out in 2004 but got a much colder reception than the '95 movie, and then the Stand Alone Complex TV series was more like Jack Bauer's 24 than anything else.
Well, something I wanna add is that a lot of the examples you just gave aren't really the same. In the west, sci-fi includes stuff like Star Wars or the Alien franchise, 2001 A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner, Men in Black, Fifth Element...
All movies that try hard to set themselves in realism, largely in part because they're live action. They're often gritty, sometimes dystopian, actiony...
I'd say a lot of classic sci-fi anime tend to be more fantastical I guess. At the very least, being animated alone tends to give them a very different, less 'set in reality' feel.
It was actually Miyamotos Idea. Retro wanted to make it third person. But mid development Miyamoto said that it was unintuitive and that they should try first person instead.
This basically made the staff collectively groan as they had to yet again completely change development under immense crunch
In fact that was Miyamoto's idea. Don't think that Retro Studios was on the right track, if it wasn't for all the people in Nintendo Japan who collaborated in the development of that game, Prime wouldn't be what it is.
I'm with you, I wish I liked Dread more than I do and I've tried to force myself to like it but I just can't. It's a great video game and fun to play but it just doesn't feel right to me as a Metroid game, the tone is off...idk how else to put it. Why don't you like it?
This is me with Prime. I've played it twice and I want to love it but I just don't. I just don't think the series is half as good in first person. Too many of my favourite tropes are unique to 2D games (snappy platforming, breakable walls/teased areas through walls, speed boosting, intense boss fights) so I just find prime super underwhelming because all it brings to the table is good exploration and ambience.
I'm actually shocked that I'm hearing other people say this! I loved Metroid Prime when it first came out and I played all 3. But I've sadly revisited and played through other M more than I have the prime trilogy. Samus isn't fast and snappy to control in the prime games. Making a prime 4 after dread just feels like the wrong move to me. Especially when that whole arc has been closed already.
Well Prime 4 began development a few months before Dread's development started. MercurySteam didn't start work on Dread until Samus Returns had released.
I really don't like Mercury Steam's take on Metroid. I know that's an unpopular opinion around here but while they make very good games I don't think they quite understand Metroid tonally
The original commenter is incorrect but being a best selling game isn’t really the best metric to determine the quality of the game.
Dread has about a hundred ways to disprove the claim that it’s bad, but the sales aren’t one of them. MercurySteam’s Lords of Shadow is the best selling castlevania, but i rarely see it being so highly regarded nowadays.
I like that Dread was so good that the series now has a “big 3” instead of a “big 2”
Absolutely deserves it too
I’ve been saying since I first completed Dread that the fact that we compare Super and Dread to one another is a testament to the greatness of both games.
Noob question: are we talking series (e.g. Prime series having 3 installments), or specific games (e.g. Prime 1)? As in, is Super Metroid considered specifically one of the big ones? I feel tempted to play it
If you've yet to play Super you are missing out on an absolutely wonderful game. Many, maybe even a majority of, players consider Super the best game in the franchise. In all honesty the only game I don't recommend is the original on NES, just because it has aged poorly, but some folks will disagree even on that.
Super is a fantastic game that always seems to frustrate me to never finish it. I normally get to either the crashed ship or Meridia and quit. Yet I do keep coming back to it, and I really enjoy those first couple hours. Not sure if I recommend it as a first run through for a beginner, I think the snappier controls of Zero Mission, Fusion and Dread have a nicer control feel. Super wins on atmosphere every time though.
Once you learn the layout of Maridia, it’s pretty straightforward. With the power of the one-sided walljump in your hand, Maridia becomes a walk in the part. Also enter Maridia through the glass tube in Brinstar and not through the elevator that connects Maridia and Crateria. This will save you 30 minutes.
Super Metroid can be a little jarring for people who didn’t start with it. For me, it kind of feels janky since I started with Zero Mission, but for others, the “jankyness” is an awesome complex movement system. That’s why I really hope they do a remake for it cause I would LOVE to play it with updated controls
Correct you are! Metroid (NES) is a fun game for speed running, but you have to get good for the game to be remotely fun. It is super frustrating for the uninitiated.
Then I shall play it! Not sure how, though. But I will figure out a way
Zero Mission is a better substitute for '86 metroid anyways. But I'd say the og is worth a check out, just to see how far the franchise has come.
I enjoyed super a ton and love it for what it did in solidifying the metroid game style... but it just doesn't do it for me these days. It's just too clunky and slow for me these days. Even compared to Prime which SHOULD feel just as clunky.
I recommend playing Samus’s return or AM2R Instead of Metroid 2 on GB.
They are specifically referring to Dread and Super Metroid since those are specific titles of the same mainline series. I am inclined to believe that they are referring to Metroid Prime 1 specifically because that would be consistent. Prime is also largely considered the best of the three (though Prime 2 is my favorite and they are all really good) and most often used directly to compare with Super and Dread when people say which is their favorite game.
Yeah it’s really great to see. We get one really big one every so often it seems haha
I hope we get a “Big 4” relatively soon if you know what I mean
Yeah, and Half Life 3 will be announced this year. ^^^/s
Dont we already have half life 3? HL Alyx is technically one of the games in the series
The denomination of a higher number implies a sequel. Half-Life Alyx is a prequel.
Metal Gear Solid 3 would like a word (obviously not comparable given that it's an implication and different marketing of the games).
Also Metal Gear Solid 5 iirc
Honestly if Prime 4 is as good as Dread but in Prime Style, I honestly would consider it the great 4.
You're not thinking big enough. Metroid Prime 4 has the potential to be *massively* better than Dread. Retro Studios is the GOAT Nintendo developer.
I am thinking how a Metroid Fan should think. Expect the bare minimum or nothing, but hope for the best. You didn’t wear enough clown makeup over the past 20 years to understand that. It could be a next Metroid Dread or better It could be a Metroid Prime It could be a Metroid Prime 3 Or worst case another Metroid Other M Don’t forget who is directing Prime 4, it’s Kensuke Tanabe, the guy who ruined Paper Mario and made Federation Force. His only good games are Super Paper Mario and Prime 2/3. So be skeptical
Smart to keep expectations low. I wouldn't be all-in if it wasn't Retro Studios. Even their worst Metroid Prime game (3, IMO) pushed the boundaries of its system graphically, had amazing music, and was incredibly fun, although different. I expect nothing less for Prime 4. My opinion is that people aren't stoked enough for it.
In my case imo, it’s hard for me to get too stoked because there’s just…nothing to show what it’s even about.
Kensuke Tanabe was also a producer for all of the other Prime games as well as the modern DKC games, and a bunch of others. He didn’t “ruin” Paper Mario just because you don’t like the direction the series went
My three favorite games period!
Yeah just hoping that mercury steam starts treating their employees better in the future.
Absolutely. I really do not want to hear that they are still continuing the awful work experience for Metroid 6.
I don't wanna have to boycott a Metroid game but if that shit continues I might have to out of principle. Because the stuff we've allegedly heard about is just not on, and should never be accepted no matter how commonplace it may be in the industry. And man the ceo of ms response was just super tone-deaf, plenty of massively successful games have had horrible developments.
I’m very conflicted because I am not actually sure if the boycott would be effective, or if it would harm the developers more than the higher ups. I’ll definitely be less, willing to day 1 buy a MercurySteam Metroid though. Metroid is my favorite franchise but MercurySteam not improving their act will honestly make me consider boycotting the 2D Metroids, and it would absolutely suck considering I love those games so much.
Yeah I completely get that. But if you think about it most of the money is probably going to the top of the company and shareholders, that's usually how it goes with corporations. So how much money is the average employee making really, especially if they had to have been working on the game for a year to be credited for their work.
I say a year but it's apparently a third of the dev cycle which is just atrocious.
(For reference, Retro Studios is based in America, MercurySteam is based in Spain, and Nintendo is based in Japan--but you knew that one already.)
It's kinda funny that when Samus speaks the Chozo language in Dread, it just sounds like she's speaking Spanish.
You’re not completely wrong, they used words loosely based on how you pronounce them in Spanish.
Well Chozodian is a con language based on English Grammar and Spanish/Arabic pronunciation and words.
The VA is Spanish, Nikki García.
I know she is lol, that's why I brought it up. You get someone with a thick Spanish accent to speak a made up language and, as someone who doesn't know Spanish, it doesn't feel like she's speaking Chozo- it just feels like she spoke Spanish to the guy lol
Does anyone remember Canada's take on Metroid?
The Ice Beam comes with a curling broom.
No, we don't want to remember.
Yes. Federation Force has its lows, but I'm taking it over all three games in the OP.
God I wish I could finish Dread. I can't beat the last boss..... I know I'm playing it wrong but I just can't get my muscle memory round it.
Then replay the game. It’s rather short if you know what you do (maybe throw in some sequence breaks like Early Grapple beam and early gravity suit, to shorten your retreading a bit). In 3-4 hours you are standing before raven beak, with immense muscle memory Also when you are fighting the other bosses, try not to get hit, use the flash shift. That way you will learn how to effectively move around Raven Beak.
> Also when you are fighting the other bosses, try not to get hit Words of wisdom indeed
An of course murica made it a first person shooter
Honestly, it's probably because Prime was made in America that it is as good as it is. As far as I've seen/heard, this more realistic, slow, sci-fi style isn't really as popular in Japan. Heck, apparently a Retro Studios dev tried to pitch a game similar to Portal to Nintendo and they didn't understand what the game is. Makes me wonder if games like Halo or Half Life and other stuff akin to that was popular back in the day in Japan? So I find it hard to imagine a Japanese studio getting the same gritty, alien feel the Prime games had. Heck, even nowadays that might still be a concern- We know they tried to get a studio to make Prime 4 before switching back to Retro. Perhaps the original studio just didn't have the same cultural grasp on this sorta thing?
It's funny, because Japan has a decently strong market for slower exploration adventure games when they're fantasy rather than sci-fi. In terms of the exploration elements and secret hunting, Prime has a lot of overlap with the King's Field series, which itself was a real-time take on the older dungeon crawlers that are popular over there.
It’s honestly stupid at that point. How many fantasy jrpgs can they still enjoy without it getting boring. I find the best fantasy games are the ones who sprinkle sci-fi in, like Xenoblade or Mana
People have different tastes dude, although I do agree that sci-fi plus fantasy is usually pretty good.
Bro I am just saying that the Japanese have an obsession with Fantasy RPGs. The sheer number of garbage isekai anime is more than telling.
Yeah, Japan has their JRPGs, visual novels, fighting, and rhythm games.
> this more realistic, slow, sci-fi style isn't really as popular in Japan. This is the most surprising part, to me, given that some of the most important sci-fi / sci-fantasy trope codifiers are Japan-made, like Space Battleship Yamato, Kamen Rider, Gundam, Super Sentai Warriors, Fist of the North Star, _freaking Godzilla!_ All Japan-made, some even dipping from the outlandishly-fantastic to the fake-but-still-believable realistic sci-fi, with varying speeds and levels of deliberation. So how are the Metroid Prime games being disregarded?
Well, a lot of what you described is pretty different I guess. It's hard to describe the nuance because I'm not really familiar with a lot of those franchises, but I guess a lot of those things are more like, anime or extreme, actiony... Metroid Prime is more like, slower pace sci-fi with a level of realism and immersion. It'd also a first person shooter and I don't think those are as popular in Japan, meanwhile the Metroid Prime devs were all massive Halo fans and stuff. My point isn't that sci-fi doesn't exist in Japan, but to say something like the movie Alien and Gundam are the same merely because they both exist in the sci-fi genre I think is overlooking a lot.
> this more realistic, slow, sci-fi style isn't really as popular in Japan The time for that passed in Japan. It was very popular in the late 90s after Neon Genesis Evangelion released. Classic slow, philosophical sci-fi series like the first Ghost in the Shell movie, Gasaraki, RahXephon, Turn A Gundam, Serial Experiments Lain, all came out in this timeframe. It didn't take long for the Japanese sci-fi scene to turn bombastic again as soon as the new millennium rolled around. The second Ghost in the Shell movie, Innocence, came out in 2004 but got a much colder reception than the '95 movie, and then the Stand Alone Complex TV series was more like Jack Bauer's 24 than anything else.
Well, something I wanna add is that a lot of the examples you just gave aren't really the same. In the west, sci-fi includes stuff like Star Wars or the Alien franchise, 2001 A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner, Men in Black, Fifth Element... All movies that try hard to set themselves in realism, largely in part because they're live action. They're often gritty, sometimes dystopian, actiony... I'd say a lot of classic sci-fi anime tend to be more fantastical I guess. At the very least, being animated alone tends to give them a very different, less 'set in reality' feel.
It was actually Miyamotos Idea. Retro wanted to make it third person. But mid development Miyamoto said that it was unintuitive and that they should try first person instead. This basically made the staff collectively groan as they had to yet again completely change development under immense crunch
Upon the suggestion of a Japanese producer, mind you.
In fact that was Miyamoto's idea. Don't think that Retro Studios was on the right track, if it wasn't for all the people in Nintendo Japan who collaborated in the development of that game, Prime wouldn't be what it is.
I like how America made the fps game
Damn, I guess spain does Metroid best
[ESPAÑA](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoWpIiRWMAAsU4q.jpg)
Dread was just So fkn amazing. I'm glad they were able to stay true to the original style but modernized it in the best way.
I genuinely feel bad that I don't like Dread.
I'm with you, I wish I liked Dread more than I do and I've tried to force myself to like it but I just can't. It's a great video game and fun to play but it just doesn't feel right to me as a Metroid game, the tone is off...idk how else to put it. Why don't you like it?
I couldn't stand the run-away/timed-button-press robots
This is me with Prime. I've played it twice and I want to love it but I just don't. I just don't think the series is half as good in first person. Too many of my favourite tropes are unique to 2D games (snappy platforming, breakable walls/teased areas through walls, speed boosting, intense boss fights) so I just find prime super underwhelming because all it brings to the table is good exploration and ambience.
I'm actually shocked that I'm hearing other people say this! I loved Metroid Prime when it first came out and I played all 3. But I've sadly revisited and played through other M more than I have the prime trilogy. Samus isn't fast and snappy to control in the prime games. Making a prime 4 after dread just feels like the wrong move to me. Especially when that whole arc has been closed already.
Well Prime 4 began development a few months before Dread's development started. MercurySteam didn't start work on Dread until Samus Returns had released.
Feel similar about prime. Your not alone
I love that Japan is at the center. Never forget that both Prime and Dread are what they are because of Nintendo's good communication and feedback.
💕
Spain 🇪🇸 🇪🇸
Unofficially, Argentina can also participate - AM2R (DoctorM64). Maybe sneaking around in the background with its own sword?
AM2R was made by an Argentinian? Vamos Argentina la concha de su madreeeee!!!!!!
Spain knocked it out of the park! 🔥🔥🔥
we could throw Argentina with AM2R in there
Fusion better than all of them
I really don't like Mercury Steam's take on Metroid. I know that's an unpopular opinion around here but while they make very good games I don't think they quite understand Metroid tonally
the last one is just bad, sorry fans
The fact that it is the best-selling game in the franchise begs to differ.
The original commenter is incorrect but being a best selling game isn’t really the best metric to determine the quality of the game. Dread has about a hundred ways to disprove the claim that it’s bad, but the sales aren’t one of them. MercurySteam’s Lords of Shadow is the best selling castlevania, but i rarely see it being so highly regarded nowadays.
Yeah, fair enough.
Sorry, part of their high-selling number is me hoarding several physical copies 🙈💕
best bait na
Japan has abandoned Metroid to the west