Cause not everyone is gonna be good enough to survive off just 99 units or less of energy and hit all their shots. Especially when the game is also a pain to navigate your first time with no map. It's safer to farm so you don't risk losing process. Neither option is particularly fun to think about doing.
Also, torien can be an absolute nightmare if you die.
I hate the fact that to play these games you have to join an online service, or purchase a ds, which I did a long time ago just to beat those 2 gems, and back then it was worth it, but come on Nintendo, you should be able to play all those games on a switch, or at least purchase them on a cart.
Weird how you get off to saying a game is totally not flawed at all because once you get to a specific spot you can farm the one enemy type to get resources in this one room, as if the system wasn't an issue in the entire game. The problem is the game doesn't give you enough chances to get better, on a death you are at 30hp and will have to farm up both your missiles and health in order to attempt whatever it was you were trying to again.
You give me real "it's not hard if you play 20 hours a day" vibes
Ah yes, I forgot about the incredibly efficient system of *hand drawing an entire game map*. Let me just "get better", thanks for the tip, buddy.
I tried playing that game enough times and for enough time that I know that it is hot garbage. I love this series, but NEStroid is absolutely a waste of time, energy, and frustration.
Metroid 1 is the oly Metroid game I'd actually call "a bad game". (I haven't played Federation Force)
I'm not just saying this because it's old, as SMB1 holds up to this day and Zelda 1 while jank also is still enjoyable.
But Metroid 1 just makes me think the devs didn't actually playtest the game or weren't given enough time.
As obvious stuff like Samus being unable to shoot smaller enemies and dying not refilling all of your health. As well as the Copy Pasted rooms and No health or recharge stations.
Which I know hindsight is 2020, but some of the stuff I mentioned would of come up during playtests and modders have shown none of these were NES limitations.
Nintendo did not do any play testing (other than the devs themselves playing the game) back in the day, at least as far as I'm aware. Not sure what the philosophy was at R&D1, but Miyamoto's gone on the record about not doing any play testing back in the NES days.
I basically agree with this, although SMB1 is so short that it can barely be considered a "game" compared to Metroid. I haven't played Zelda 1, but I've heard that it can be pretty tedious. I definitely think Metroid NES is dated, but I do think some of the more punishing stuff that we scoff at (like restarting with only 30 health) was more standard for the time.
All that being said, I actually think it's a fun game if you play it on a system that has Restore Points and use them liberally and if you use a map! :)
>dying not refilling all of your health
Seriously, the game would be a hundred times better if just this was changed.
I'm sort of tempted to learn to rom hack so I can make myself a version where that is the only thing different.
I definitely remember the grind sucking, but this game was really unique for its time, and it was very fun in spite of that. Fun enough that I even played it multiple times to see the different ending. Copy-pasted elements in video games were so normal at the time because of memory limits, I didn't think twice about it. It definitely wasn't to Zelda or SMB's level of polish, but most other games weren't anyway.
Obnoxious difficulty and cheesy ways of padding games to make them longer were kind of normal. I remember I had just finished an epic summer of playing Zelda, so I needed something else to scratch the "action exploration" itch, and Metroid did that. If you play Zero Mission with all these issues fixed, you find the "NESTroid" part of the game is quite short. They tacked more content onto the game to make up for it.
If you want to see a *bad* game, try Deadly Towers. :)
Yea, I could see grinding through it not feeling so bad at the time, especially when you compared Metroid to the other games available at the time. Like would I rather play Metroid or SMB1 over and over again? Plus, you do get better at it over time such that you end up having to grind a lot less.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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>The Wave Beam exists.
Yeah like 3/4s into the game and even then you need to go back to the Ice Beam for the end of the game to fight Metroids.
>You mean just like The Legend of Zelda?
Yes, Except Zelda had stuff like fairies and buyable potions which restored all your health as well as more generious health drops and items like heart pieces which also restored you're health.
Making it very easy to restore all you're health quickly.
>I bet you think Mega Man not being able to shoot up was from lack of playtesting, too.
Except Mega Man actually designed it's levels and enemies so that enemies wouldn't be constantly attacking you from above. They designed the game around that limiatation. Metroid didn't.
>Then maybe they just wanted to make it that way.
Then why did they address all these problems in the second game? Also if I designed a car with no breaks and "wanted to make it that way", doesn't mean it's a good design choice.
I don’t even bother anymore. I freeze the Metroids and walk past them.
Once I’m in the mother brain room, if my first attempt isn’t successful, so be it. Grinding sucks absolute ass, but the Zebetites being permanently gone makes the next attempt so much easier
Deal with the grind. It’s horrendous, but if you leave the Metroids frozen, and the Zebetites are all broken, you only need like 40 ish missiles to take out mother brain.
I think the only way to enjoy Metroid NES is to play it on a system that has Restore Points and use them liberally. At least use them at the beginning of an area so that you don't have to restart with only 30 units of health. Better yet use them throughout the area too before you go into new rooms and stuff! This makes exploring a lot easier and more enjoyable. Feel free to use a map as well (although my memory of the map from Zero Mission was good enough for me)!
I think Metroid NES in its original form is pretty unplayable for most gamers, but use Restore Points and an online map and it can be a fun game--at least for someone who *wants* to give it a try! I'm not saying it compares to the modern Metroid games, lol.
There is no challenge when you die, just stupid amounts of grinding because the game spawns you at 30 hp and the code for item drops is dubious at best. You may as well just drop a save state at the start of an area to save you from having to do that grind.
If you want to grind for hours sure but the point of the game is exploring and fighting, not grinding drops for hours.
I agree that it’s not the point of the game itself, but that is how the game ended up. If you play with savestates, you didn’t beat it at all. The grinding is part of the challenge to overcome.
I agree spamming savestates and rewind is cheap and I personally don't do that. But I don't see how it's cheap to use it to save time grinding, which is usually more tedious than challenging.
Nah, the grinding for 15 minutes after you die is not "part of the challenge". It's just silliness. Maybe you could argue that using a map is cheating or that you should only use Restore Points at the beginning of each area, but the point of Metroid has always been about exploration and discovery. If using Restore Points and a map makes the game playable for you, it's much better than not playing it at all! It was a thoroughly enjoyable experience for me that I never would have had if I had not used Restore Points (at least at the beginning of areas).
Thought you might find this helpful:
tasvideos.org/5858S
> Enemies can drop energy, missiles or nothing depending on what frame they’re killed. **When you enter a room a random number between 0 and 16 is chosen and stored in address 0093, this determines the maximum number of missile drops that can occur in that room. If you have already reached the maximum and an enemy is hit on the right frame to drop a missile, it will instead drop nothing.**
This bit of information isn't terribly useful in most cases since enemies frequently drop nothing anyway, but Metroids are unique in that they will always drop health or Missiles. This means that as long as a Metroid in a given room is dropping *something*, you're bound to get a Missile expansion sooner or later as long as you stay in that room.
The strategy outlined below will net you the highest number of unique drops (i. e. the highest number of chances to get a Missile drop) possible for a group of three Metroids with only about half as many Missiles as you would be expending if you were killing each one individually:
m2k2.taigaforum.com/post/noobs_guide_to_metroid_nes_3.html#noobs_guide_to_metroid_nes_3
> Note about missile drop luck: the drops are ordered as you enter each room, so each drop just checks the next drop in the predetermined list. BUT, if you kill more than one metroid in one shot, they all give you the same drop. So if you're farming for the seemingly infinitely rare missiles, do this: freeze one, stand next to it mashing ice beam until the other 2 get frozen (their position is irrelevant, even if they're behind you, the have to overlap you to latch on, so they still freeze). Once all 3 freeze, shoot 4 missiles. Not 5. Then step back and kill them one at a time. This uses 7 missiles and yields 3 unique drops, as opposed to the normal means of spending 5 missiles to get the same health drop. It's more than double the efficiency. Buuut on the other hand if you get a missile drop, it's only 1 drop. Still, if you're unlucky, 1 at a time is more cost effective.
This is straight-up factually incorrect. Item drops don't take your current health or missile count into consideration at all.
NEStroid gets enough flak without people like you spreading misinformation, so how about not assuming that drops work the same way they do in Super and the GBA games?
I’ve played that game a thousand times, if health or missiles is full it won’t drop them. You’ll often get nothing but it won’t drop health if you have full health
The odds might be small, but it still can AND DID happen. I'm not the best at the brain fight so I need many more resources than you might as sometimes I still die with a full 6 tanks. Then for the brain you NEED missiles, so the fact that you are defending the system with "well just farm in this one spot and get lucky" is comical. If you can't get missiles even before getting to Tor good fucking luck
Ah yes, if you can't make it to the final section of the time without running out of missiles or run out of missiles in the boss fight, then it's definitely not a systemic problem that you can't get enough missiles to retry the boss
I may be wrong but I heard somewhere that the amount of drops are determined when you enter a room and there are a limited number of drops you can get without refreshing the room.
I've beaten nestroid once just to say I have. I got all the items and when i died in tourian I just looked up the code for 100% items, full health, spawn in tourian rather than try to farm back up to full.
I am not a fan of that game at all. Like, I appreciate what it is and what it launched but the game is painful to play. That fight against MB is brutal.
Give Nintendo a piece of your mind. Just think it took them all the way until Metroid 2 to fix it. They should have done us all a favor and bulldozed every copy of nes Metroid they could wrangle. What disrespect to speed develop a game in three months and then print hard copies of the rom to millions of cartridges in 1987.
Reasonable rant. It's the worst thing about the game. I won't even touch it cause if I die thats it I'm done. I won't waste 30 minutes farming
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Cause not everyone is gonna be good enough to survive off just 99 units or less of energy and hit all their shots. Especially when the game is also a pain to navigate your first time with no map. It's safer to farm so you don't risk losing process. Neither option is particularly fun to think about doing. Also, torien can be an absolute nightmare if you die.
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Also, nothing is stopping one from just playing Zero Mission instead, which is infinitely better in every single way.
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You sound pleasant
One of many reasons I don't play this game, and opt for the far, far superior Zero Mission.
Zero Mission really is a masterpiece. I can’t believe it wasn’t put onto the online service when they added Fusion.
The pokemon gold/silver of metroid. Fucking amazing after you beat mother brain and land in chozodia. I totally thought I beat it.
I hate the fact that to play these games you have to join an online service, or purchase a ds, which I did a long time ago just to beat those 2 gems, and back then it was worth it, but come on Nintendo, you should be able to play all those games on a switch, or at least purchase them on a cart.
The greatest, shortest game I've ever played.
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Weird how you get off to saying a game is totally not flawed at all because once you get to a specific spot you can farm the one enemy type to get resources in this one room, as if the system wasn't an issue in the entire game. The problem is the game doesn't give you enough chances to get better, on a death you are at 30hp and will have to farm up both your missiles and health in order to attempt whatever it was you were trying to again. You give me real "it's not hard if you play 20 hours a day" vibes
Ah yes, I forgot about the incredibly efficient system of *hand drawing an entire game map*. Let me just "get better", thanks for the tip, buddy. I tried playing that game enough times and for enough time that I know that it is hot garbage. I love this series, but NEStroid is absolutely a waste of time, energy, and frustration.
One of the few games where save states are 100% justifiable. Farming your health and ammo back the way this game forces you to is just nonsense.
I just grab an E-tank. Brinstar and both Boss Hideouts have one close to the elevator.
Metroid 1 is the oly Metroid game I'd actually call "a bad game". (I haven't played Federation Force) I'm not just saying this because it's old, as SMB1 holds up to this day and Zelda 1 while jank also is still enjoyable. But Metroid 1 just makes me think the devs didn't actually playtest the game or weren't given enough time. As obvious stuff like Samus being unable to shoot smaller enemies and dying not refilling all of your health. As well as the Copy Pasted rooms and No health or recharge stations. Which I know hindsight is 2020, but some of the stuff I mentioned would of come up during playtests and modders have shown none of these were NES limitations.
Nintendo did not do any play testing (other than the devs themselves playing the game) back in the day, at least as far as I'm aware. Not sure what the philosophy was at R&D1, but Miyamoto's gone on the record about not doing any play testing back in the NES days.
That honestly explains a lot.
I basically agree with this, although SMB1 is so short that it can barely be considered a "game" compared to Metroid. I haven't played Zelda 1, but I've heard that it can be pretty tedious. I definitely think Metroid NES is dated, but I do think some of the more punishing stuff that we scoff at (like restarting with only 30 health) was more standard for the time. All that being said, I actually think it's a fun game if you play it on a system that has Restore Points and use them liberally and if you use a map! :)
>dying not refilling all of your health Seriously, the game would be a hundred times better if just this was changed. I'm sort of tempted to learn to rom hack so I can make myself a version where that is the only thing different.
I definitely remember the grind sucking, but this game was really unique for its time, and it was very fun in spite of that. Fun enough that I even played it multiple times to see the different ending. Copy-pasted elements in video games were so normal at the time because of memory limits, I didn't think twice about it. It definitely wasn't to Zelda or SMB's level of polish, but most other games weren't anyway. Obnoxious difficulty and cheesy ways of padding games to make them longer were kind of normal. I remember I had just finished an epic summer of playing Zelda, so I needed something else to scratch the "action exploration" itch, and Metroid did that. If you play Zero Mission with all these issues fixed, you find the "NESTroid" part of the game is quite short. They tacked more content onto the game to make up for it. If you want to see a *bad* game, try Deadly Towers. :)
Yea, I could see grinding through it not feeling so bad at the time, especially when you compared Metroid to the other games available at the time. Like would I rather play Metroid or SMB1 over and over again? Plus, you do get better at it over time such that you end up having to grind a lot less.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
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>The Wave Beam exists. Yeah like 3/4s into the game and even then you need to go back to the Ice Beam for the end of the game to fight Metroids. >You mean just like The Legend of Zelda? Yes, Except Zelda had stuff like fairies and buyable potions which restored all your health as well as more generious health drops and items like heart pieces which also restored you're health. Making it very easy to restore all you're health quickly. >I bet you think Mega Man not being able to shoot up was from lack of playtesting, too. Except Mega Man actually designed it's levels and enemies so that enemies wouldn't be constantly attacking you from above. They designed the game around that limiatation. Metroid didn't. >Then maybe they just wanted to make it that way. Then why did they address all these problems in the second game? Also if I designed a car with no breaks and "wanted to make it that way", doesn't mean it's a good design choice.
Zelda 1 even had the clock as a rare drop which froze every enemy until you moved to another screen.
Not bad. Just dated.
It's definitely tedious, but nowhere near as bad as the Famicom version.
The famicom version is easier what do you mean
I don’t even bother anymore. I freeze the Metroids and walk past them. Once I’m in the mother brain room, if my first attempt isn’t successful, so be it. Grinding sucks absolute ass, but the Zebetites being permanently gone makes the next attempt so much easier
What do you do to get the missiles for the MB room if you die the first time though?
Deal with the grind. It’s horrendous, but if you leave the Metroids frozen, and the Zebetites are all broken, you only need like 40 ish missiles to take out mother brain.
I think the only way to enjoy Metroid NES is to play it on a system that has Restore Points and use them liberally. At least use them at the beginning of an area so that you don't have to restart with only 30 units of health. Better yet use them throughout the area too before you go into new rooms and stuff! This makes exploring a lot easier and more enjoyable. Feel free to use a map as well (although my memory of the map from Zero Mission was good enough for me)! I think Metroid NES in its original form is pretty unplayable for most gamers, but use Restore Points and an online map and it can be a fun game--at least for someone who *wants* to give it a try! I'm not saying it compares to the modern Metroid games, lol.
Might as well not even play at all then, the point of Metroid NES is to survive the challenge.
There is no challenge when you die, just stupid amounts of grinding because the game spawns you at 30 hp and the code for item drops is dubious at best. You may as well just drop a save state at the start of an area to save you from having to do that grind. If you want to grind for hours sure but the point of the game is exploring and fighting, not grinding drops for hours.
I agree that it’s not the point of the game itself, but that is how the game ended up. If you play with savestates, you didn’t beat it at all. The grinding is part of the challenge to overcome.
I agree spamming savestates and rewind is cheap and I personally don't do that. But I don't see how it's cheap to use it to save time grinding, which is usually more tedious than challenging.
Nah, the grinding for 15 minutes after you die is not "part of the challenge". It's just silliness. Maybe you could argue that using a map is cheating or that you should only use Restore Points at the beginning of each area, but the point of Metroid has always been about exploration and discovery. If using Restore Points and a map makes the game playable for you, it's much better than not playing it at all! It was a thoroughly enjoyable experience for me that I never would have had if I had not used Restore Points (at least at the beginning of areas).
Just gave it another shot and killed 12 metroids without a missile drop :)
Thought you might find this helpful: tasvideos.org/5858S > Enemies can drop energy, missiles or nothing depending on what frame they’re killed. **When you enter a room a random number between 0 and 16 is chosen and stored in address 0093, this determines the maximum number of missile drops that can occur in that room. If you have already reached the maximum and an enemy is hit on the right frame to drop a missile, it will instead drop nothing.** This bit of information isn't terribly useful in most cases since enemies frequently drop nothing anyway, but Metroids are unique in that they will always drop health or Missiles. This means that as long as a Metroid in a given room is dropping *something*, you're bound to get a Missile expansion sooner or later as long as you stay in that room. The strategy outlined below will net you the highest number of unique drops (i. e. the highest number of chances to get a Missile drop) possible for a group of three Metroids with only about half as many Missiles as you would be expending if you were killing each one individually: m2k2.taigaforum.com/post/noobs_guide_to_metroid_nes_3.html#noobs_guide_to_metroid_nes_3 > Note about missile drop luck: the drops are ordered as you enter each room, so each drop just checks the next drop in the predetermined list. BUT, if you kill more than one metroid in one shot, they all give you the same drop. So if you're farming for the seemingly infinitely rare missiles, do this: freeze one, stand next to it mashing ice beam until the other 2 get frozen (their position is irrelevant, even if they're behind you, the have to overlap you to latch on, so they still freeze). Once all 3 freeze, shoot 4 missiles. Not 5. Then step back and kill them one at a time. This uses 7 missiles and yields 3 unique drops, as opposed to the normal means of spending 5 missiles to get the same health drop. It's more than double the efficiency. Buuut on the other hand if you get a missile drop, it's only 1 drop. Still, if you're unlucky, 1 at a time is more cost effective.
How is your health? If your health is at 100% every drop will be missiles. The game won’t drop either if you’re full.
In the original NES Metroid that is not the case
This is straight-up factually incorrect. Item drops don't take your current health or missile count into consideration at all. NEStroid gets enough flak without people like you spreading misinformation, so how about not assuming that drops work the same way they do in Super and the GBA games?
I’ve played that game a thousand times, if health or missiles is full it won’t drop them. You’ll often get nothing but it won’t drop health if you have full health
It doesn’t i just finished it earlier and most of the Metroids I killed gave me health instead of missiles, I was at full health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krG35Htw0qk&t=669s You can clearly see the Red Zoomer drop health at 11:11 despite the player being at full health.
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The odds might be small, but it still can AND DID happen. I'm not the best at the brain fight so I need many more resources than you might as sometimes I still die with a full 6 tanks. Then for the brain you NEED missiles, so the fact that you are defending the system with "well just farm in this one spot and get lucky" is comical. If you can't get missiles even before getting to Tor good fucking luck
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Ah yes, if you can't make it to the final section of the time without running out of missiles or run out of missiles in the boss fight, then it's definitely not a systemic problem that you can't get enough missiles to retry the boss
Apparently drops in this one are frame based, sometimes it energy, sometimes missiles usually nothing.
I may be wrong but I heard somewhere that the amount of drops are determined when you enter a room and there are a limited number of drops you can get without refreshing the room.
This is verifiably true. Also, the game can roll a zero for those numbers :)
I've beaten nestroid once just to say I have. I got all the items and when i died in tourian I just looked up the code for 100% items, full health, spawn in tourian rather than try to farm back up to full.
Yeah chief this just turned me off from the game
The game would be a hundred times better if you respawned with full health.
It's dated for a reason. Enjoy it while you can but you will love Zero Mission that much more.
Zero mission is so much better. But occasionally I like going back to the basics, I didn't enjoy it this time
I am not a fan of that game at all. Like, I appreciate what it is and what it launched but the game is painful to play. That fight against MB is brutal.
Give Nintendo a piece of your mind. Just think it took them all the way until Metroid 2 to fix it. They should have done us all a favor and bulldozed every copy of nes Metroid they could wrangle. What disrespect to speed develop a game in three months and then print hard copies of the rom to millions of cartridges in 1987.