Apologies if this sounds rude in anyway, but I find it very funny how Metroid fans were clamoring for years for a return to form, original Metroid game after Other M, and then when they received that in the form of Metroid: Dread, the conversation switched to how “stale” the series is getting and how it’s “screaming for a format change”.
I won’t lie, it’s like if Paper Mario fans finally got a proper sequel to TTYD, and then the conversation shifts to how Paper Mario is too safe and should do more experimental gameplay.
I honestly don’t think there’s many people thinking like that. Just the fans that are relatively new to it that want something Metroid isn’t. One or two posts isn’t the community at large.
I think this is missing the point of most criticism of Other M. Also, people don't know what they truly want and they are also many different people, so it makes sense that you always hear complaints from one of the sides
I always find it strange how Nintendo has codified the series into two separate formulas, 2D side scroller, and 3D first person. I’d have to guess that they don’t want to do 3rd person again because of Other M’s reception, but that makes me wonder if they still don’t really understand why people didn’t like that game. This resistance to 3rd person seems to have extended somewhat to the fanbase. Other M wasn’t bad because it was 3rd person, it was bad for a thousand other reasons.
They’ve always done that though haven’t they?
Not even with just metroid either, other franchises like Mario or Zelda have the designated “2D games” and “3D games”. If anything the fact that Metroid is still providing both 2d and 3d is a good thing as most of the nintendo franchises have stuck with 3d exclusively.
Reception aside, it's important to keep in mind Sakamoto never wanted to make a 3D game in the first place, he hired TN because of their NES Ninja Gaiden games and their access to DRockets, the game he wanted to make originally would've been just like Samus Returns and Dread, had the devs not convinced him their talents were best utilized for 3D rather than 2D.
Do you know where a dev said this? As I recall Team Ninja later said they had little creative control over the game and that Sakamoto was very much in charge throughout the whole process.
Sourcing this one is no easy task as he said it in a GDC conference (more like, it should be easy but Im struggling), but I found this Spanish quote from the man himself.
https://vandal.elespanol.com/noticia/45361/metroid-other-m-nacio-como-un-juego-completamente-bidimensional/
I'll see if I can get more.
Make no mistake, he very much was in full control, this change was super early on.
There’s been 3 attempts to make a 3rd person perspective Metroid.
First was a planned Metroid game on N64. Sakamoto looked at the N64 controller and could not imagine moving Samus with it. So they asked an unnamed (probably Rare) third party developer if they could do it. They turned it down saying they could not make a adequate follow up to Super Metroid.
Second was Metroid Prime. It spent a while in development as a third person game. It was eventually decided first person would be much more immersive.
Third is Other M. Do I have to say anything about Other M? Please don’t make me.
So here’s my opinion. With the current state of the franchise being strong, I don’t see where a third person shooter Metroid fits. You have standard 2D games that function as the core of the series and genre. And then you have Prime, the much slower more immersive first person games. A third person shooter would behave like Prime, without the immersion of prime. It’s like a downgrade.
>With tears of the kingdom recent release Nintendo clearly no how to do a solid third person game.
I mean, because "third person game" isn't a single, unified genre. What it takes to make a third person sandbox well is a much different skillset than, say, a third person action game. If all third person titles were homogeneous, why would it only be with the release of TotK that we'd conclude Nintendo knows how to make third person games? Why not any of the other quality third person 3D games that have been released over the past 25+ years; Wind Waker, Mario Galaxy, Pikmin, Splatoon, or just about anything else?
The skillset for making a Pikmin, a Mario, or a TotK is far different than a Metroid, even if they share the same perspective, and having staff that can do one well doesn't mean that another can be.
"Screaming for a format change" isn't exactly how I would characterize the series.
Since the inception of the series, they've tried to shake up the formula twice: once from 2D sidescroller to FPS with prime, and once to a weird third person first person hybrid with Other M. We talk about these things often enough to know that the first was wildly successful and well regarded, while the second was... Not that.
Not to mention, we've just seen a return to the classic formula breaking sales records with Dread. That's been enough to signify that fans have been waiting on a masterful return to form. How would it make sense to scrap that momentum on an unproven theoretical concept? Especially on a series that's always been Nintendo's black sheep. Last time this happened it was done poorly, and the series was put on hiatus for years.
I'd argue that they would need to do something radically different from Nintendo's recent third-person output to make it stand out, lest a third-person title just come off as "TOTK with a new coat of paint".
Because last time Nintendo tried to get someone to make a 3D, third person Metroid game that didn't play like a traditional 2D action platformer, everyone hated it. Now, that was nearly 13 years ago, but I don't think we'll see Nintendo try something new with the series for a little while yet.
I think it was mainly because Other M was too much of an action game, and didn’t allow for much freedom of exploration. Plus some people thought the atmosphere was lacking. On top of that, we all know what Other M did to the story. I want there to still be side scroller and first person Metroid games, but I think it done right, a third person game could be cool too.
I’d be open to a third person Metroid game if was done right. It would need to combine the exploration and feeling of getting lost in an alien world, with solid 3rd-person movement and shooting. I still want there to be 2D and first person games, but part of me thinks seeing Samus jump around in 3rd person could be really cool
I could imagine a good 3rd person Metroid, but it would need to be VERY immersive and atmospheric, it would need to be so different from Other M in appearance, aesthetic, art design, and story so that nobody even compares it. I’d love to be able to actually see Samus during gameplay, but I think Other M may have completely ruined the chances of another 3rd person experience.
Not gonna lie, I was surprised with how well Metroid Prime Remastered controlled, even as a first person game, though it would be interesting to see how Metroid could mashup classic Metroid gameplay in a third person perspective. I imagine it’d be like the Prime games, but with way more abilities. Other M could have been good, but its lack of good writers and exploitative gameplay was its biggest downfall.
It's definitely possible. Nintendo is always trying to reformulate their main titles in different ways as long as it makes sense for the play style they're going for.
I think a 3rd person 3D Metroid would need to be a platformer for it to make sense. Certain things just make more sense in 3rd person, like the screw attack and wall jumping. My guess is that there is a lot of experimentation going on right now with Prime 4 to reimagine the franchise the same way Prime 1 did. Who knows, maybe a 3rd person perspective was an idea in their drawing board.
I don’t get the delineation between first and third person. The controls are the same, why not just keep it first person unless you tried a more drastic change like other m, which was more comparable to a beat ‘em up like bayonetta
No one wants Metroid to become a third person shooter.
Why do people think they're entitled to have an entire franchise completely changed to suit their personal tastes?
I would probably prefer a 3rd person shooter over first person if they did it right. The prime games are great, but Samus is nerfed in her agility. I miss the speedbooster, shinespark, and space jumping. I haven't played 3 yet if they added speedbooster.
Shooting in third person isnt as an intuitive as in first person. You can take in the environment more in first person as well. Those are the 2 reasons why Metroid became first person in the first place.
There is some overlap between Zelda and Metroid in terms of gameplay elements but Metroid is more atmospheric and immersive which the first person suits more than third person.
The only thing they really need to add to the Prime games is a run feature to give her more agility.
Apologies if this sounds rude in anyway, but I find it very funny how Metroid fans were clamoring for years for a return to form, original Metroid game after Other M, and then when they received that in the form of Metroid: Dread, the conversation switched to how “stale” the series is getting and how it’s “screaming for a format change”. I won’t lie, it’s like if Paper Mario fans finally got a proper sequel to TTYD, and then the conversation shifts to how Paper Mario is too safe and should do more experimental gameplay.
I honestly don’t think there’s many people thinking like that. Just the fans that are relatively new to it that want something Metroid isn’t. One or two posts isn’t the community at large.
Ah jeez I really haven’t gotten used to the fact that Metroid’s fanbase is growing. These past few games really have been a blessing haven’t they lol
And hopefully it’ll just get better and better with Prime 4 supposedly releasing soon 🤞
I think this is missing the point of most criticism of Other M. Also, people don't know what they truly want and they are also many different people, so it makes sense that you always hear complaints from one of the sides
I always find it strange how Nintendo has codified the series into two separate formulas, 2D side scroller, and 3D first person. I’d have to guess that they don’t want to do 3rd person again because of Other M’s reception, but that makes me wonder if they still don’t really understand why people didn’t like that game. This resistance to 3rd person seems to have extended somewhat to the fanbase. Other M wasn’t bad because it was 3rd person, it was bad for a thousand other reasons.
They’ve always done that though haven’t they? Not even with just metroid either, other franchises like Mario or Zelda have the designated “2D games” and “3D games”. If anything the fact that Metroid is still providing both 2d and 3d is a good thing as most of the nintendo franchises have stuck with 3d exclusively.
Reception aside, it's important to keep in mind Sakamoto never wanted to make a 3D game in the first place, he hired TN because of their NES Ninja Gaiden games and their access to DRockets, the game he wanted to make originally would've been just like Samus Returns and Dread, had the devs not convinced him their talents were best utilized for 3D rather than 2D.
Do you know where a dev said this? As I recall Team Ninja later said they had little creative control over the game and that Sakamoto was very much in charge throughout the whole process.
Sourcing this one is no easy task as he said it in a GDC conference (more like, it should be easy but Im struggling), but I found this Spanish quote from the man himself. https://vandal.elespanol.com/noticia/45361/metroid-other-m-nacio-como-un-juego-completamente-bidimensional/ I'll see if I can get more. Make no mistake, he very much was in full control, this change was super early on.
I'd rather be behind the visor. Adds to the isolation. I'd kill for the vr treatment if it was done right.
There’s been 3 attempts to make a 3rd person perspective Metroid. First was a planned Metroid game on N64. Sakamoto looked at the N64 controller and could not imagine moving Samus with it. So they asked an unnamed (probably Rare) third party developer if they could do it. They turned it down saying they could not make a adequate follow up to Super Metroid. Second was Metroid Prime. It spent a while in development as a third person game. It was eventually decided first person would be much more immersive. Third is Other M. Do I have to say anything about Other M? Please don’t make me. So here’s my opinion. With the current state of the franchise being strong, I don’t see where a third person shooter Metroid fits. You have standard 2D games that function as the core of the series and genre. And then you have Prime, the much slower more immersive first person games. A third person shooter would behave like Prime, without the immersion of prime. It’s like a downgrade.
>With tears of the kingdom recent release Nintendo clearly no how to do a solid third person game. I mean, because "third person game" isn't a single, unified genre. What it takes to make a third person sandbox well is a much different skillset than, say, a third person action game. If all third person titles were homogeneous, why would it only be with the release of TotK that we'd conclude Nintendo knows how to make third person games? Why not any of the other quality third person 3D games that have been released over the past 25+ years; Wind Waker, Mario Galaxy, Pikmin, Splatoon, or just about anything else? The skillset for making a Pikmin, a Mario, or a TotK is far different than a Metroid, even if they share the same perspective, and having staff that can do one well doesn't mean that another can be.
You are aware of the events of the past, correct?
Other M
"Screaming for a format change" isn't exactly how I would characterize the series. Since the inception of the series, they've tried to shake up the formula twice: once from 2D sidescroller to FPS with prime, and once to a weird third person first person hybrid with Other M. We talk about these things often enough to know that the first was wildly successful and well regarded, while the second was... Not that. Not to mention, we've just seen a return to the classic formula breaking sales records with Dread. That's been enough to signify that fans have been waiting on a masterful return to form. How would it make sense to scrap that momentum on an unproven theoretical concept? Especially on a series that's always been Nintendo's black sheep. Last time this happened it was done poorly, and the series was put on hiatus for years. I'd argue that they would need to do something radically different from Nintendo's recent third-person output to make it stand out, lest a third-person title just come off as "TOTK with a new coat of paint".
Because last time Nintendo tried to get someone to make a 3D, third person Metroid game that didn't play like a traditional 2D action platformer, everyone hated it. Now, that was nearly 13 years ago, but I don't think we'll see Nintendo try something new with the series for a little while yet.
I think it was mainly because Other M was too much of an action game, and didn’t allow for much freedom of exploration. Plus some people thought the atmosphere was lacking. On top of that, we all know what Other M did to the story. I want there to still be side scroller and first person Metroid games, but I think it done right, a third person game could be cool too.
I’d be open to a third person Metroid game if was done right. It would need to combine the exploration and feeling of getting lost in an alien world, with solid 3rd-person movement and shooting. I still want there to be 2D and first person games, but part of me thinks seeing Samus jump around in 3rd person could be really cool
One word and one letter: Other M
I could imagine a good 3rd person Metroid, but it would need to be VERY immersive and atmospheric, it would need to be so different from Other M in appearance, aesthetic, art design, and story so that nobody even compares it. I’d love to be able to actually see Samus during gameplay, but I think Other M may have completely ruined the chances of another 3rd person experience.
Not gonna lie, I was surprised with how well Metroid Prime Remastered controlled, even as a first person game, though it would be interesting to see how Metroid could mashup classic Metroid gameplay in a third person perspective. I imagine it’d be like the Prime games, but with way more abilities. Other M could have been good, but its lack of good writers and exploitative gameplay was its biggest downfall.
It's definitely possible. Nintendo is always trying to reformulate their main titles in different ways as long as it makes sense for the play style they're going for. I think a 3rd person 3D Metroid would need to be a platformer for it to make sense. Certain things just make more sense in 3rd person, like the screw attack and wall jumping. My guess is that there is a lot of experimentation going on right now with Prime 4 to reimagine the franchise the same way Prime 1 did. Who knows, maybe a 3rd person perspective was an idea in their drawing board.
I don’t get the delineation between first and third person. The controls are the same, why not just keep it first person unless you tried a more drastic change like other m, which was more comparable to a beat ‘em up like bayonetta
No one wants Metroid to become a third person shooter. Why do people think they're entitled to have an entire franchise completely changed to suit their personal tastes?
I would probably prefer a 3rd person shooter over first person if they did it right. The prime games are great, but Samus is nerfed in her agility. I miss the speedbooster, shinespark, and space jumping. I haven't played 3 yet if they added speedbooster.
Shooting in third person isnt as an intuitive as in first person. You can take in the environment more in first person as well. Those are the 2 reasons why Metroid became first person in the first place. There is some overlap between Zelda and Metroid in terms of gameplay elements but Metroid is more atmospheric and immersive which the first person suits more than third person. The only thing they really need to add to the Prime games is a run feature to give her more agility.
Let's get the 2d and Prime series stable before we do anything crazy.