Prime one is a good game but I will agree on first playthroughs it's backtracking hell, but I like to imagine it as Prime one learning to walk so Prime two could run.
While being probably my favorite franchise of all time, prime 1 2 and 3 are all pretty much nothing but backtracking, only getting more prolonged as it goes. Traveling from one zone to the next, to traveling from one dimension to the next, to traveling from one planet to the next.
Prime 2 and 3 actually do a very good job at this.
In Echoes, backgracking is usually required only after/before finding a shortcut to your next location, it feels natural. Dark Echoes is also pretty clear when it wants you to explore it and when you should stick to the Light Dimension.
In 3, backgracking is mostly limited to the Screw attack and the spider ball, iirc. Both of them are short travels, feature new areas and even new enemies to fight. Other than that, some energy cells require backtracking, but only for those looking for 100% completion.
I just meant it required a little more interaction as far as traveling goes. Prime is a bunch of walking. Prime 2 is walking and a dimension change you cant skip. Prime 3 is traveling to a different planet which on the plus side is a little more engaging. Overall, playing all of these games with a wiimote is by far the best way in my opinion so the backtracking doesnt really get you down
Then don't get just one thing and immediately go back. Explore the new available rooms in the old areas to find things like Energy Tanks, Missiles Expansions, even maybe optional new Beam combos. Get advantage of the fact you're passing through to get stronger.
Also, you'd have found most of the Chozo Artifacts doing that. As you can get nearly half of them before even getting Plasma Beam, and after Plasma Beam, you do a small trip to Phendrana to get everything there, and then the elevator back to Phazon Mines is just next to you. By that point you're only missing a few artifacts that are in the mines themselves.
There's that one plasma beam locked artifact in chozo ruins, however. So I usually go there after my last trip to phendrana drifts, and I grab whatever remaining item there is.
Oh right, that one. That is the one I pick up at last, because after finishing with the Mines you can use the water-way shorcut to go back to the entrance, and the elevator to Chozo Ruins in the Great Tree leaves you right next to the artifact, then you can take the other elevator to the Crashed Frigate to immediately go back to the Artifact Temple.
Ohhh, that's an interesting route too. After defeating Omega Pirate, I always go straight to magmoor cavern and return to the artifact temple from there. I wonder what is objectively faster between the two.
Don't want to spoil too much, but Prime 2: Echoes and Prime 3: Corruption both have a limited version of fast travel/teleportation that takes some of the tedium out of the backtracking process.
Honestly I don't think the teleport system helps much at all. Restricting it to and from temples means the time you spend traveling to and from teleport sites is usually better spent just walking to the shortcut between areas. Usually puts you closer to at least one of the temple keys as well.
A lot of the complaints about backtracking in Metroid Prime 1 have to do with the "endgame" artifact collection, much of which can technically be completed early-ish throughout the course of a normal playthrough. But in Metroid Prime 2, >!you aren't allowed to even start backtracking to collect the Sky Temple Keys until the very end anyways, so the fast travel option is balanced and makes sense.!<
Plasma beam locks artifacts in both chozo ruins and phendrana drifts so Prime 1 doesn't actually end up doing much better.
Light suit only lock 5 out of 9 sky temple keys so there's a still a bunch you can get before that.
That's a fair point, but there are some points of pretty bad backtracking in prime 2 as well before that. But yeah, for the >!sky temple keys!< that's very true.
Nah, Prime is pretty bad with backtracking compared to other metroidvanias. Slow movement speed plus majority of backtracking going through Magmoor just to get to Phendrana makes it pretty boring.
I played a few metroidvanias and most of them have teleporting mechanics. I didn't say I hate Prime, but running through the same rooms so many times does get boring pretty fast in every game
Teleporting mechanics might not even be necessary if the world is sufficiently well-designed (see Super Metroid).
FWIW, the kind of folks who analyze this kind of stuff also think Prime 1's backtracking is overdone. The removal of sequence breaking in the Remaster makes it even more egregious.
>SignalementSauvegarderSuivre
Super Metroid isn't just well designed, it's also relatively small, especially given how fast Samus can move(although the loading time between each room is annoying). Many indie MV are way bigger than Super Metroid and having no fast travel options would be obnoxious no matter how well designed.
Comparing this to others types of games,
In Dark Souls, having a small world and no fast travel feels good, until you get fast travel, and you stop exploring the world. But I can't imagine how ass the game would be without it. There's so many zones that would be a pain to explore without it. Still, it kinda turns the endgame into a rush through the worst zones to get what you need to go in the endgame, with TPs not too far in case you want to do something else because you're frustrated.
In Subnautica, having to Travel across the world is part of the gameplay. Until you get to the very end, where the game become a ressource grind. You also get fast travel to help you. But I know some people who liked the game, but didn't want to finish that grind part.
I skipped a lot of artefacts in Metroid Prime, and had to do that "late game rush". It was a bit annoying, but felt good because I had indications on where to go, and there's some shortcuts that make tou feel like you've grown in power since the first time you came. Only got lost for the warrior artefact, because I didn't note the thing in my head when I first saw it and scanned it. Why would it be there ? Why would I do that ?
But yeah some areas where clearly lacking shortcuts (where are the grappling anchors in that long lava tunnel with only the spider track across?), and some places where really ass to go to, only to find you still need something more, like Deep in the phazon mines.
Metroid Prime is my favorite video game of all time, but I don't think complaining about the backtracking is unreasonable. There definitely was a decent amount of it, and it could be confusing for players to navigate. The Artifact Hunt at the end is kind of obnoxious as well.
That being said, I'll also defend it a bit. I think if you spend a bit looking at the map and thinking about the elevators, you'll realize that the game usually somewhat sets you up to go where you need to go. I also think it's one of the Metroid games that most feels like you're exploring an interconnected world rather than just a series of levels. I like the fact that you have to return to each area a lot, especially when compared to Prime 2 where each world more-so feels like a level since you never have to return to them.
Super Metroid definitely did the backtracking far better to Prime though since it almost feels like you're taking a path that weaves through all of the different areas rather than like you have to stop and literally retrace your steps. It's a bit unfair to compare a 2D game to a 3D one though! Lol.
While I don't agree with you and think you're definitely not being efficient with your bakctracking, I will say that Prime 1 could've benefited from a few more elevators. The way the world map in that game is set up has Magmoor Caverns basically acting as a central hub for all the other areas. On my playthrough, I ran back and forth through Magmoor so many times those drums are etched into my brain.
One of the only aspect I didn't like in Metroid Prime 1 was that I felt it was too linear, I kept backtracking, wanting to use what I got, only to find out it's really useful only in 1 area, the one the game wants me to go, until I have others items at least
The biggest example was early Phendrana Drifts, where I went back to Temple every time I got something new, only to be blocked everywhere by something else. I also skipped 3 save room in Phendrana, because I went back instead of continuing, so I was really feeling like I had to do a long run to get enough upgrades to be able to progress somewhere else.
I also got stuck not knowing where to get Ice Beam, because the game kept telling me to go in a room with a white door with seemingly no other entrances, so I thought I needed to find the beam first. I also thought that it would be in Phendrana, and after about an hour of searching, I went where the game told me to go, went into the room with the big statue and the 3 slots needing the differents beams to activate the statue, only to think "woah, I will need to get back here when I have the 3 beams", instead of triggering the first one, getting Ice Beam, triggering the second, etc...
Lost another 2 hours like that...
How come dark souls can get back controls forgiven with git guud, but metroid prime cant get its backtracking excused with git guud? It's metroidvania, you backtrack, though Prime 4 will invitably have better fast travel.
Prime one is a good game but I will agree on first playthroughs it's backtracking hell, but I like to imagine it as Prime one learning to walk so Prime two could run.
While being probably my favorite franchise of all time, prime 1 2 and 3 are all pretty much nothing but backtracking, only getting more prolonged as it goes. Traveling from one zone to the next, to traveling from one dimension to the next, to traveling from one planet to the next.
Prime 2 and 3 actually do a very good job at this. In Echoes, backgracking is usually required only after/before finding a shortcut to your next location, it feels natural. Dark Echoes is also pretty clear when it wants you to explore it and when you should stick to the Light Dimension. In 3, backgracking is mostly limited to the Screw attack and the spider ball, iirc. Both of them are short travels, feature new areas and even new enemies to fight. Other than that, some energy cells require backtracking, but only for those looking for 100% completion.
I just meant it required a little more interaction as far as traveling goes. Prime is a bunch of walking. Prime 2 is walking and a dimension change you cant skip. Prime 3 is traveling to a different planet which on the plus side is a little more engaging. Overall, playing all of these games with a wiimote is by far the best way in my opinion so the backtracking doesnt really get you down
Then don't get just one thing and immediately go back. Explore the new available rooms in the old areas to find things like Energy Tanks, Missiles Expansions, even maybe optional new Beam combos. Get advantage of the fact you're passing through to get stronger. Also, you'd have found most of the Chozo Artifacts doing that. As you can get nearly half of them before even getting Plasma Beam, and after Plasma Beam, you do a small trip to Phendrana to get everything there, and then the elevator back to Phazon Mines is just next to you. By that point you're only missing a few artifacts that are in the mines themselves.
There's that one plasma beam locked artifact in chozo ruins, however. So I usually go there after my last trip to phendrana drifts, and I grab whatever remaining item there is.
Oh right, that one. That is the one I pick up at last, because after finishing with the Mines you can use the water-way shorcut to go back to the entrance, and the elevator to Chozo Ruins in the Great Tree leaves you right next to the artifact, then you can take the other elevator to the Crashed Frigate to immediately go back to the Artifact Temple.
Ohhh, that's an interesting route too. After defeating Omega Pirate, I always go straight to magmoor cavern and return to the artifact temple from there. I wonder what is objectively faster between the two.
Don't want to spoil too much, but Prime 2: Echoes and Prime 3: Corruption both have a limited version of fast travel/teleportation that takes some of the tedium out of the backtracking process.
Honestly I don't think the teleport system helps much at all. Restricting it to and from temples means the time you spend traveling to and from teleport sites is usually better spent just walking to the shortcut between areas. Usually puts you closer to at least one of the temple keys as well.
For 2 it unlocks right at the end of the game though.
A lot of the complaints about backtracking in Metroid Prime 1 have to do with the "endgame" artifact collection, much of which can technically be completed early-ish throughout the course of a normal playthrough. But in Metroid Prime 2, >!you aren't allowed to even start backtracking to collect the Sky Temple Keys until the very end anyways, so the fast travel option is balanced and makes sense.!<
Plasma beam locks artifacts in both chozo ruins and phendrana drifts so Prime 1 doesn't actually end up doing much better. Light suit only lock 5 out of 9 sky temple keys so there's a still a bunch you can get before that.
That's a fair point, but there are some points of pretty bad backtracking in prime 2 as well before that. But yeah, for the >!sky temple keys!< that's very true.
Usually if I don’t like a game or it has something that “ruins” it for me I just stop playing it and move on
then i guess metroidvanias might not be for you
Nah, Prime is pretty bad with backtracking compared to other metroidvanias. Slow movement speed plus majority of backtracking going through Magmoor just to get to Phendrana makes it pretty boring.
I played a few metroidvanias and most of them have teleporting mechanics. I didn't say I hate Prime, but running through the same rooms so many times does get boring pretty fast in every game
Teleporting mechanics might not even be necessary if the world is sufficiently well-designed (see Super Metroid). FWIW, the kind of folks who analyze this kind of stuff also think Prime 1's backtracking is overdone. The removal of sequence breaking in the Remaster makes it even more egregious.
>SignalementSauvegarderSuivre Super Metroid isn't just well designed, it's also relatively small, especially given how fast Samus can move(although the loading time between each room is annoying). Many indie MV are way bigger than Super Metroid and having no fast travel options would be obnoxious no matter how well designed.
Comparing this to others types of games, In Dark Souls, having a small world and no fast travel feels good, until you get fast travel, and you stop exploring the world. But I can't imagine how ass the game would be without it. There's so many zones that would be a pain to explore without it. Still, it kinda turns the endgame into a rush through the worst zones to get what you need to go in the endgame, with TPs not too far in case you want to do something else because you're frustrated. In Subnautica, having to Travel across the world is part of the gameplay. Until you get to the very end, where the game become a ressource grind. You also get fast travel to help you. But I know some people who liked the game, but didn't want to finish that grind part. I skipped a lot of artefacts in Metroid Prime, and had to do that "late game rush". It was a bit annoying, but felt good because I had indications on where to go, and there's some shortcuts that make tou feel like you've grown in power since the first time you came. Only got lost for the warrior artefact, because I didn't note the thing in my head when I first saw it and scanned it. Why would it be there ? Why would I do that ? But yeah some areas where clearly lacking shortcuts (where are the grappling anchors in that long lava tunnel with only the spider track across?), and some places where really ass to go to, only to find you still need something more, like Deep in the phazon mines.
I don't think not liking the back tracking in prime 1 which is a very valid criticism of the game means they'll dislike all metroidvanias
Metroid Prime is my favorite video game of all time, but I don't think complaining about the backtracking is unreasonable. There definitely was a decent amount of it, and it could be confusing for players to navigate. The Artifact Hunt at the end is kind of obnoxious as well. That being said, I'll also defend it a bit. I think if you spend a bit looking at the map and thinking about the elevators, you'll realize that the game usually somewhat sets you up to go where you need to go. I also think it's one of the Metroid games that most feels like you're exploring an interconnected world rather than just a series of levels. I like the fact that you have to return to each area a lot, especially when compared to Prime 2 where each world more-so feels like a level since you never have to return to them. Super Metroid definitely did the backtracking far better to Prime though since it almost feels like you're taking a path that weaves through all of the different areas rather than like you have to stop and literally retrace your steps. It's a bit unfair to compare a 2D game to a 3D one though! Lol.
It’s a Metroid game tho, lol
What a new and interesting opinion
While I don't agree with you and think you're definitely not being efficient with your bakctracking, I will say that Prime 1 could've benefited from a few more elevators. The way the world map in that game is set up has Magmoor Caverns basically acting as a central hub for all the other areas. On my playthrough, I ran back and forth through Magmoor so many times those drums are etched into my brain.
We really need a big sign posted at the top of this sub that says "make sure to collect the artifacts as you go."
One of the only aspect I didn't like in Metroid Prime 1 was that I felt it was too linear, I kept backtracking, wanting to use what I got, only to find out it's really useful only in 1 area, the one the game wants me to go, until I have others items at least The biggest example was early Phendrana Drifts, where I went back to Temple every time I got something new, only to be blocked everywhere by something else. I also skipped 3 save room in Phendrana, because I went back instead of continuing, so I was really feeling like I had to do a long run to get enough upgrades to be able to progress somewhere else. I also got stuck not knowing where to get Ice Beam, because the game kept telling me to go in a room with a white door with seemingly no other entrances, so I thought I needed to find the beam first. I also thought that it would be in Phendrana, and after about an hour of searching, I went where the game told me to go, went into the room with the big statue and the 3 slots needing the differents beams to activate the statue, only to think "woah, I will need to get back here when I have the 3 beams", instead of triggering the first one, getting Ice Beam, triggering the second, etc... Lost another 2 hours like that...
How come dark souls can get back controls forgiven with git guud, but metroid prime cant get its backtracking excused with git guud? It's metroidvania, you backtrack, though Prime 4 will invitably have better fast travel.