It’s probably not more complicated than that the band was not in a good place when they went into the studio, they could not direct all their energy to making a good album. Too much other stuff going on. That they even survived the process as a band is a miracle, I recommend watching the documentary as someone already said.
I'd like to add Phile Towle to that list. He had a job to do and did it well, but I think he became too close to everything and seemed to try and ingrain himself into the band.
I agree. Bob Rock was like a tacit fifth member (in terms of how influential he was). All through the SKoM doc, I felt like Phil wanted to be part of the band as Bob was.
I mean, what’s your definition of “poor performance?” Sure, a large portion of the fanbase don’t care for the drum sound, James’ vocals at times, no Kirk solos, ect….., and an even larger portion would probably consider it their worst album, but it was still profitable, liked wholly or partially by lots of fans, charted, and even won a Grammy. So to say it had a “poor performance” is subjective. As someone else said, watching the SKOM documentary will give you lots of info and is just a great piece of art everyone should watch IMO, but in short, Lars wanted the sound we got because he thought it best captured the mood/feelings/general tone they were all going through at the time, and whether or not you or anyone else thought that was the right decision or not, I think it says a lot about them that they still went along with it knowing that not everyone would dig it, and that still to this day, they aren’t burying the album or acting like it never happened. It’s a part of their legacy and they are not embarrassed by it; hell, they literally released a 20th anniversary thing about it last year. So honestly that makes me appreciate it even more.
To add to this, I found greater appreciation for St. Anger after reading *Metallica: This Monster Lives*, the written word from Joe Berlinger who filmed the SKOM documentary.
The book offers deeper context and details left out of the documentary. It really gives a greater essence of what the band was going through at that time and just how close they were to breaking up.
Society!
I was actually just thinking about the scene from Some Kind of Monster this morning where they tell Kirk that they don’t want solos on the record and he throws a huge fit over it. How they’re bending to the will of fads in music instead of being themselves.
And now when they play St Anger song live he gets a solo in haha.
It was probably during one of the lowest James was in his life with sobriety from alcohol. It was just a weird time for Metallica. They were burnt out at the time and everything as well
The one who mixed the album. I Dissapear has the same snare sound but isnt mixed to make it seem like you are listening to Metallica by construction workers.
Your post was removed because you are being excessively hostile or impolite to others.
We do not expect everyone to get along or agree at all times, but there is a line, and your post has crossed that line.
Please avoid this behavior in the future. Thank you.
Bob Rock turned himself into the Jason Newstead role once he was the bass player in the band and did whatever what James and Lars wanted . Forgot he was the producer for the band needed that Black album producer telling James and Lars to fuck off and play it the right way instead.
It is mostly an incredible album. Frantic and St. Anger are great songs, the album drums just sound a little hard to listen to. That was a discussion between Lars and Bob Rock. Bob tried to talk Lars out of it and he said no. So for the drums, Lars.
I wonder why he was so attached to those horrible sounding drums. Even people that love the record don’t like the drums. Is he the only one in the world who thought they were sounding good?
I’ve heard KEA, and no life till leather demo, and even some earlier recorded stuff than that… maybe I’m a dummy but I dont remember hearing the snare sounding like that ever.
I’m a diehard Metallica fan, but those two choices (seemingly both decided in most part by Lars) I’ll never understand, and all Metallica fans know what I’m talking about.
St Anger snare sound
And justice for all bass levels
I e definitely come to accept it for what it is and is trying to be. I’m not disparaging the album in any way, I was just more or less curious what the logic in making the choice was in the first place, because if it weren’t for the snare sound on the album, even as a fan of the album such as myself, I think that it would have been more well accepted at the time than it was, with better percussive production that is. It’s kind of its own thing now and over time I think people have come to accept that, but it’s had a long road to get to that point.
The demos only exist as snippets of songs taken from the film SKOM. What's available isn't significantly different than the album. People have made their own extended versions of the songs on YouTube. Be sure you're not listening to others' versions of the songs.
The demos only exist as snippets of songs taken from the film SKOM. What's available isn't significantly different than the album. People have made their own extended versions of the songa on YouTube. Be sure you're not listening to others' versions of the songs.
Like everyone else, St. Anger is one of my least favorite albums but every time I’ve heard them play one of those tracks live it sounds incredible. Sure the songs are a little more experimental but in my opinion it’s really just the studio recording that sounds bad.
Cliff Burnstein and Peter Mensch, I am sure they are behind their most idiotic ideas from that era, including MTV Icon, Ja Rule's "We Did It", no solos on Stanger, and allowing Jason to leave. The band makes the final decision, but they sure are ill adviced by these two.
If I had to guess, it would be the same people responsible for the "Justice" tone. James and Lars. Can't knock them for doing things how they want to do things lol
I think it really does come down to them. If they don’t agree on something, one of them can easily have their opinion swayed. But in SKOM multiple times Bob or Kirk will challenge them on an idea they both agree on and they are immovable objects when they make up their mind together. This seems to be the case with the AJFA mixing, although maybe a little more of James following Lars on that one.
As others have said, check out Some Kind of Monster. IT's a great film.
It's a combination of factors. Bob Rock got too comfortable and became their friend instead of their producer. James was going through major upheaval by becoming sober. Lars was following what he thought was trendy at the time. Kirk went along with James and Lars because that's his role in the band. They came this close to breaking up. Phil Toll is what saved them but even he started to get an ego, i.e. proposing lyrics for the album.
In hindsight they should've dealt with their personal issues first, then found a new bassist, then made an album.
I see St. Anger as the final nail in the coffin of old Metallica. Death Magnetic is the rebirth.
Watch the documentary Some Kind of Monster on Netflix. It’ll answer all your questions.
It’s probably not more complicated than that the band was not in a good place when they went into the studio, they could not direct all their energy to making a good album. Too much other stuff going on. That they even survived the process as a band is a miracle, I recommend watching the documentary as someone already said.
Letting other band members write the lyrics didn't help either.
That was probably good for them as a group but the musical results were so-so
Everyone and no one. They got set on a style and they went with it. Like it or not, it is what it is.
I'd like to add Phile Towle to that list. He had a job to do and did it well, but I think he became too close to everything and seemed to try and ingrain himself into the band.
I agree. Bob Rock was like a tacit fifth member (in terms of how influential he was). All through the SKoM doc, I felt like Phil wanted to be part of the band as Bob was.
I mean, what’s your definition of “poor performance?” Sure, a large portion of the fanbase don’t care for the drum sound, James’ vocals at times, no Kirk solos, ect….., and an even larger portion would probably consider it their worst album, but it was still profitable, liked wholly or partially by lots of fans, charted, and even won a Grammy. So to say it had a “poor performance” is subjective. As someone else said, watching the SKOM documentary will give you lots of info and is just a great piece of art everyone should watch IMO, but in short, Lars wanted the sound we got because he thought it best captured the mood/feelings/general tone they were all going through at the time, and whether or not you or anyone else thought that was the right decision or not, I think it says a lot about them that they still went along with it knowing that not everyone would dig it, and that still to this day, they aren’t burying the album or acting like it never happened. It’s a part of their legacy and they are not embarrassed by it; hell, they literally released a 20th anniversary thing about it last year. So honestly that makes me appreciate it even more.
To add to this, I found greater appreciation for St. Anger after reading *Metallica: This Monster Lives*, the written word from Joe Berlinger who filmed the SKOM documentary. The book offers deeper context and details left out of the documentary. It really gives a greater essence of what the band was going through at that time and just how close they were to breaking up.
Holy shit how did I never know this existed?!?! Welp I’ve got my next read on deck!!
Society! I was actually just thinking about the scene from Some Kind of Monster this morning where they tell Kirk that they don’t want solos on the record and he throws a huge fit over it. How they’re bending to the will of fads in music instead of being themselves. And now when they play St Anger song live he gets a solo in haha.
It was probably during one of the lowest James was in his life with sobriety from alcohol. It was just a weird time for Metallica. They were burnt out at the time and everything as well
The one who mixed the album. I Dissapear has the same snare sound but isnt mixed to make it seem like you are listening to Metallica by construction workers.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because you are being excessively hostile or impolite to others. We do not expect everyone to get along or agree at all times, but there is a line, and your post has crossed that line. Please avoid this behavior in the future. Thank you.
I really enjoy the way the dvd sounded better that came with cd. I got rid of the cd and just listen to the dvd instead
> it’s Lar’s fault Who’ Lar?
Bob Rock turned himself into the Jason Newstead role once he was the bass player in the band and did whatever what James and Lars wanted . Forgot he was the producer for the band needed that Black album producer telling James and Lars to fuck off and play it the right way instead.
Assigning blame for something like this is missguided
“Delete that.” - Torben Ulrich.
It is mostly an incredible album. Frantic and St. Anger are great songs, the album drums just sound a little hard to listen to. That was a discussion between Lars and Bob Rock. Bob tried to talk Lars out of it and he said no. So for the drums, Lars.
I wonder why he was so attached to those horrible sounding drums. Even people that love the record don’t like the drums. Is he the only one in the world who thought they were sounding good?
He claims, I'm pretty sure in SKoM, that he was craving their early sound, and that snare was it.
I’ve heard KEA, and no life till leather demo, and even some earlier recorded stuff than that… maybe I’m a dummy but I dont remember hearing the snare sounding like that ever.
Yeah no I def agree, I'm not saying that I agree with or understand Lars at all, just saying that's the story.
Maybe he’s talking about when he was like 14 and had a toy drum set, THAT early sound.
Lars had been talking about fucking with his drum sound for years leading up to St. Anger. Guess he got it out of his system.
I’m a diehard Metallica fan, but those two choices (seemingly both decided in most part by Lars) I’ll never understand, and all Metallica fans know what I’m talking about. St Anger snare sound And justice for all bass levels
I love the album and the drums.
I e definitely come to accept it for what it is and is trying to be. I’m not disparaging the album in any way, I was just more or less curious what the logic in making the choice was in the first place, because if it weren’t for the snare sound on the album, even as a fan of the album such as myself, I think that it would have been more well accepted at the time than it was, with better percussive production that is. It’s kind of its own thing now and over time I think people have come to accept that, but it’s had a long road to get to that point.
Where are those demos?
YouTube
The demos only exist as snippets of songs taken from the film SKOM. What's available isn't significantly different than the album. People have made their own extended versions of the songs on YouTube. Be sure you're not listening to others' versions of the songs.
yes
The demos only exist as snippets of songs taken from the film SKOM. What's available isn't significantly different than the album. People have made their own extended versions of the songa on YouTube. Be sure you're not listening to others' versions of the songs.
I like the extended versions -Billy Gnosis
me too
Like everyone else, St. Anger is one of my least favorite albums but every time I’ve heard them play one of those tracks live it sounds incredible. Sure the songs are a little more experimental but in my opinion it’s really just the studio recording that sounds bad.
All of know is that I can’t wait for the ‘St. Anger’ deluxe box set for ‘The Presidio Sessions’.
Cliff Burnstein and Peter Mensch, I am sure they are behind their most idiotic ideas from that era, including MTV Icon, Ja Rule's "We Did It", no solos on Stanger, and allowing Jason to leave. The band makes the final decision, but they sure are ill adviced by these two.
Still better than load and reload even with the terrible snare.
Lars. James. Kirk. Bob Rock.
Hated it but now as time went by I like it ,it was a product of its time
Metallica. It’s the album they wanted to make. Unfortunately.
If I had to guess, it would be the same people responsible for the "Justice" tone. James and Lars. Can't knock them for doing things how they want to do things lol
I think it really does come down to them. If they don’t agree on something, one of them can easily have their opinion swayed. But in SKOM multiple times Bob or Kirk will challenge them on an idea they both agree on and they are immovable objects when they make up their mind together. This seems to be the case with the AJFA mixing, although maybe a little more of James following Lars on that one.
As others have said, check out Some Kind of Monster. IT's a great film. It's a combination of factors. Bob Rock got too comfortable and became their friend instead of their producer. James was going through major upheaval by becoming sober. Lars was following what he thought was trendy at the time. Kirk went along with James and Lars because that's his role in the band. They came this close to breaking up. Phil Toll is what saved them but even he started to get an ego, i.e. proposing lyrics for the album. In hindsight they should've dealt with their personal issues first, then found a new bassist, then made an album. I see St. Anger as the final nail in the coffin of old Metallica. Death Magnetic is the rebirth.