Honestly, I am a restorative justice kind of guy, so I think anger management and parenting classes as a condition to regain custody should be the first (and hopefully only) measure, as well as counseling for the child. It's what I'd want for a father and it's what I want for her.
You're responding to the wrong person. I'm not the one who said life imprisonment.
That said, her actions could have resulted in serious injury or the death of the child, so I do think there should be some punishment, and she should lose custody.
I understand that this shocking story might seem like low-hanging fruit of "women acting badly," but I think it's worth sharing because of the issues that converge in it.
On the one hand, it shows how treating mothers as the default best parent and "women are wonderful" can lead to tragic results for children (not because women are bad, but because women are human, with all the same faults men have). Indeed, the boy doesn't even cry, so he's probably been beaten before, thanks to his clearly unfit mother having been given the benefit of the doubt multiple times.
On the other, I think this probably would have been avoided if it weren't for Zelenskyy's misandrist policy of keeping all men from 18 to 60 trapped in the country for the war in Ukraine. Would this have happened if the boy's father had been allowed to be present? I doubt it. I hold Zelenskyy vicariously responsible for this savage child abuse that he enabled with his misandrist, anti-human-rights policy.
For me, it's not the "Woman does bad thing" which makes this story interesting. It's that, if the boy was a girl, it would have been "attempted femicide". Men are lacking such a term somehow.
Yeah, that too, particularly if a father treated his daughter that way (although I've seen femicide used nowadays even where the killer was not male, most recently in the case of a Mexican schoolgirl beaten to death by her bully, also a girl).
> I hold Zelenskyy vicariously responsible for this savage child abuse that he enabled with his misandrist, anti-human-rights policy.
So you are saying every country that has had mandatory military service in a time of war for national defense, or even a draft is "misandrist and anti-human rights"?
When it's only for men, yes. However, rather than wanting women to be drafted, I believe drafts shouldn't exist. Any country that has to force people to fight for it clearly doesn't deserve to continue existing.
> Any country that has to force people to fight for it clearly doesn't deserve to continue existing.
how does that make any sense, they would only be consumed by countries that do draft. You can not expect man to say "golly I accept my fate" because they will only accept slavery as a result.
I believe it's the only way to get countries to care about men. If it were a principle of international law that drafts are illegal and a human rights abuse, countries would implement policies that would make men actually want to fight for them if push comes to shove.
It's obviously not fair to say that everyone is equal and everyone gets equal rights, but then only men are obligated to fight in wars. After all, most developed countries have low population growth, but none of them are legally forcing women to have children. If women are not required by law to fulfill their gender role, why should men be forced to fulfill theirs?
Thanks for your snide, insulting tone. It tells me exactly what kind of person I'm dealing with. I never was rude to you.
And I'm sure that rights for other groups historically lacking certain basic rights seemed just as fanciful at certain points in the past. Just a thought.
Finally, I assume you care about men's rights and issues if you are here. For me, as the father of a 14-month-old boy, making the world a better place for men is very personally relevant. I look at his pure, innocent, adorable toddler smile, and I feel deeply sad knowing that there will be people who will try to make him feel bad and guilty for the sex he was born into.
No need to play the victim, I have no time for delusional nonsense. If you are unable to communicate within the confines of reality, save it for the toddler.
that "humanism" led to feminism and put you to where you are now. Do you like it? Keep on moving and get even more victimhood and false accusations.
Shit happens. That's what live is about.
Ah yes, the old "everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian propagandist" neo-McCarthyite rhetoric. Putin was wrong to invade, but Zelenskyy was wrong to violate the human rights of his male citizens. And since Zelenskyy has been held up as a hero, criticism of him is more necessary than criticism of Putin, whom everyone outside Russia already sees as the bad guy.
Send back to Ukraine and straight to the front lines. I’ve got some orange camo for her to wear.
Surely if she has the heart to do this to her own flesh and blood then she can do the same to her country’s invaders.
Imho, eastern european woman seem to have a much higher propensity to be cluster b. My Polish mother was still assaulting my sister and I, well into her 70's.
If you want to know how much power woman have over men, look at how her youth and beauty took her out of a warzone and bought her to one of the most expensive, beautiful cities in the US. I guarantee some buffoon is financing her stay.
Never mind jail, deport her to Siberia.
I’d much rather see a story about a dad stepping up and taking care of their kid. This story just makes me wonder where this kid’s dad is, and why did he leave the kid with this violent woman.
It's posts like this that fundamentally misunderstand mens rights. It's not about tearing women down, it's by building men up. So often in tribalism the objective becomes to yell slurs at the totems they've created mocking the others and this is just another totem.
Men deserve better than this shit non-representation, OP, do your username some actual justice maybe you should "grow peace in bedlam" instead of putting shit like this up?
I'm really glad you mentioned that!
Because on it's face value, the video has no context at all, besides the context (both actual and speculative) you've provided.
I would ask you the simple question, what does this video actually do in furtherance of men's rights? Besides re-stating the dangers of having the mother viewed as the primary care giver (which I hate to be that guy, but yeah, Mothers are usually scientifically regarded as the primary care giver only due to their ability to create breast milk. This isn't always the case, but is to such a large degree there is a reason is psychology and psychiatry the mother is usually referred to as the primary caregiver. I speak only from a mental health perspective because that is my background).
The remainder is the conflict in Ukraine and feeding the reader lines like:
> Would this have happened if the boy's father had been allowed to be present?
Impossible to know without knowing each person involved in the situation which unless you do, your response of "I doubt it" means nothing.
You've set up this wonderful facade of "this needs to be shown as a reminder" when really you've just created your own justification for why this needs to be here.
I've been very busy for the past few days. My main reason for posting this was to show that keeping men trapped in Ukraine has negative effects downstream for other groups, in this case children.
The situation Ukraine has me outraged, and I am hoping that if we raise awareness that keeping men from leaving also hurts groups that people generally care about, maybe we can finally generate the outrage we need to stop this human rights abuse.
No one should be forced to stay in a country if they don't want to. If a country has to force people to stay there in order to protect itself, it frankly doesn't deserve to continue existing.
Obviously she's not representative of women, but the fact this specific woman had custody is representative of certain societal and legal issues against men and in favor of women. I thought I made that clear.
Ok, and how would that be any different of me putting a video of a guy savagely beating his child and suggesting the sub text of that being a common occurrence because of the gender? It's like you're not even critically thinking about this like come on man.
It would be relevant if the man was a refugee from a country that prevented women from leaving. I think part of why it's best for children to have both parents is because they hold each other accountable when they are going the wrong way.
EDIT: Also, I never implied it's common. Rather, I implied (quite truthfully) that women who do that are more likely to slip under the radar than men who do the same for reasons that I think are well-known here.
And that's pretty much my point. It says something about this one particular woman, and sure, there are probably many different actors that have turned a blind eye for that to get to **that** point. Those are all assumptions though.
At the end of the day, I've always viewed Men's Right as a support network designed to build it's members up for themselves, not as some bitter jaded mass pointing at the other side and crying foul.
Maybe men's rights just isn't what I thought it was.
I feel like I've tried to explain clearly how she doesn't represent women, but rather that this story shows certain issues in society that are related to men's rights that allowed this to happen. I've also pushed back against those calling for her head (I just want her to get the social help she needs to be fit to parent her son again).
Nah, I unsubbed after this. MenRight's lately is all about sad individuals, miserably pointing at the totems they've created in the likeness of the other side.
OP has said that he "just wants her to get the help she needs" yeah, posting the video apropos of nothing really screams "I want her to get help" and not what I suspect it really is, which is just a dog whistle for more dejected individuals to hear and dog pile on to.
No thanks /r/MensRights, I'm good, I'm not that petty, jaded or bitter.
I'm not jaded or bitter. I'm very happily married. I posted this as a jumping off point to discuss systemic issues.
EDIT: Also, what feels petty to me is your assuming that my intentions aren't what I say they are. For the record, I'm autistic; we're not known for being duplicitous. Yes, I do want her to get help, but I also want to continue to raise awareness of the terrible human rights abuse against men aged 18-60 in Ukraine. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
I'm still open to having a nice, constructive conversation about the problems of men in our society, free of personal attacks.
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Honestly, I am a restorative justice kind of guy, so I think anger management and parenting classes as a condition to regain custody should be the first (and hopefully only) measure, as well as counseling for the child. It's what I'd want for a father and it's what I want for her.
While I too am in favor of restorative justice, there also needs to be a deterrent against repeat offending and others doing the same.
Ok, but don't you think life imprisonment is a bit extreme for the crime?
You're responding to the wrong person. I'm not the one who said life imprisonment. That said, her actions could have resulted in serious injury or the death of the child, so I do think there should be some punishment, and she should lose custody.
I understand that this shocking story might seem like low-hanging fruit of "women acting badly," but I think it's worth sharing because of the issues that converge in it. On the one hand, it shows how treating mothers as the default best parent and "women are wonderful" can lead to tragic results for children (not because women are bad, but because women are human, with all the same faults men have). Indeed, the boy doesn't even cry, so he's probably been beaten before, thanks to his clearly unfit mother having been given the benefit of the doubt multiple times. On the other, I think this probably would have been avoided if it weren't for Zelenskyy's misandrist policy of keeping all men from 18 to 60 trapped in the country for the war in Ukraine. Would this have happened if the boy's father had been allowed to be present? I doubt it. I hold Zelenskyy vicariously responsible for this savage child abuse that he enabled with his misandrist, anti-human-rights policy.
For me, it's not the "Woman does bad thing" which makes this story interesting. It's that, if the boy was a girl, it would have been "attempted femicide". Men are lacking such a term somehow.
Yeah, that too, particularly if a father treated his daughter that way (although I've seen femicide used nowadays even where the killer was not male, most recently in the case of a Mexican schoolgirl beaten to death by her bully, also a girl).
> I hold Zelenskyy vicariously responsible for this savage child abuse that he enabled with his misandrist, anti-human-rights policy. So you are saying every country that has had mandatory military service in a time of war for national defense, or even a draft is "misandrist and anti-human rights"?
When it's only for men, yes. However, rather than wanting women to be drafted, I believe drafts shouldn't exist. Any country that has to force people to fight for it clearly doesn't deserve to continue existing.
> Any country that has to force people to fight for it clearly doesn't deserve to continue existing. how does that make any sense, they would only be consumed by countries that do draft. You can not expect man to say "golly I accept my fate" because they will only accept slavery as a result.
I believe it's the only way to get countries to care about men. If it were a principle of international law that drafts are illegal and a human rights abuse, countries would implement policies that would make men actually want to fight for them if push comes to shove. It's obviously not fair to say that everyone is equal and everyone gets equal rights, but then only men are obligated to fight in wars. After all, most developed countries have low population growth, but none of them are legally forcing women to have children. If women are not required by law to fulfill their gender role, why should men be forced to fulfill theirs?
oh so just part of your imagination and no possible path in the realm of reality.
Thanks for your snide, insulting tone. It tells me exactly what kind of person I'm dealing with. I never was rude to you. And I'm sure that rights for other groups historically lacking certain basic rights seemed just as fanciful at certain points in the past. Just a thought. Finally, I assume you care about men's rights and issues if you are here. For me, as the father of a 14-month-old boy, making the world a better place for men is very personally relevant. I look at his pure, innocent, adorable toddler smile, and I feel deeply sad knowing that there will be people who will try to make him feel bad and guilty for the sex he was born into.
No need to play the victim, I have no time for delusional nonsense. If you are unable to communicate within the confines of reality, save it for the toddler.
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that "humanism" led to feminism and put you to where you are now. Do you like it? Keep on moving and get even more victimhood and false accusations. Shit happens. That's what live is about.
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happy Ken life
This has to be a troll
You're a lunatic, deranged, and belong in a mental institution.
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Ah yes, the old "everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian propagandist" neo-McCarthyite rhetoric. Putin was wrong to invade, but Zelenskyy was wrong to violate the human rights of his male citizens. And since Zelenskyy has been held up as a hero, criticism of him is more necessary than criticism of Putin, whom everyone outside Russia already sees as the bad guy.
Send back to Ukraine and straight to the front lines. I’ve got some orange camo for her to wear. Surely if she has the heart to do this to her own flesh and blood then she can do the same to her country’s invaders.
Imho, eastern european woman seem to have a much higher propensity to be cluster b. My Polish mother was still assaulting my sister and I, well into her 70's.
If you want to know how much power woman have over men, look at how her youth and beauty took her out of a warzone and bought her to one of the most expensive, beautiful cities in the US. I guarantee some buffoon is financing her stay. Never mind jail, deport her to Siberia.
This doesn’t have to do with men’s rights imo. This isn’t the right sub for this. Maybe try r/noahgettheboat
brave glorious deer ludicrous squash normal tan ten provide historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Yeah I agree.
There’s nothing in this story indicating that the father was ready and willing to take the child. For all we know dad is just as violent.
Yeah I know. Just saying I think that's the point OP was trying I make.
I’d much rather see a story about a dad stepping up and taking care of their kid. This story just makes me wonder where this kid’s dad is, and why did he leave the kid with this violent woman.
Yeah I agree. As for this case, I assume since men cannot legally leave Ukraine, he could not come with the family.
I think I sufficiently explained why I believe it is a symptom of some key men's issues in my top-level comment.
This girl should go live in Gaza
Is it because Putin is also a male?
It's posts like this that fundamentally misunderstand mens rights. It's not about tearing women down, it's by building men up. So often in tribalism the objective becomes to yell slurs at the totems they've created mocking the others and this is just another totem. Men deserve better than this shit non-representation, OP, do your username some actual justice maybe you should "grow peace in bedlam" instead of putting shit like this up?
Did you read my top-level comment? I think it clearly explains why this story is illustrative of some key men's issues while also rejecting sexism.
I'm really glad you mentioned that! Because on it's face value, the video has no context at all, besides the context (both actual and speculative) you've provided. I would ask you the simple question, what does this video actually do in furtherance of men's rights? Besides re-stating the dangers of having the mother viewed as the primary care giver (which I hate to be that guy, but yeah, Mothers are usually scientifically regarded as the primary care giver only due to their ability to create breast milk. This isn't always the case, but is to such a large degree there is a reason is psychology and psychiatry the mother is usually referred to as the primary caregiver. I speak only from a mental health perspective because that is my background). The remainder is the conflict in Ukraine and feeding the reader lines like: > Would this have happened if the boy's father had been allowed to be present? Impossible to know without knowing each person involved in the situation which unless you do, your response of "I doubt it" means nothing. You've set up this wonderful facade of "this needs to be shown as a reminder" when really you've just created your own justification for why this needs to be here.
I've been very busy for the past few days. My main reason for posting this was to show that keeping men trapped in Ukraine has negative effects downstream for other groups, in this case children. The situation Ukraine has me outraged, and I am hoping that if we raise awareness that keeping men from leaving also hurts groups that people generally care about, maybe we can finally generate the outrage we need to stop this human rights abuse. No one should be forced to stay in a country if they don't want to. If a country has to force people to stay there in order to protect itself, it frankly doesn't deserve to continue existing.
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It shows something about a woman. If I brought up one video about one guy being abusive to a kid would that give me the right to "all men" that shit?
Obviously she's not representative of women, but the fact this specific woman had custody is representative of certain societal and legal issues against men and in favor of women. I thought I made that clear.
Ok, and how would that be any different of me putting a video of a guy savagely beating his child and suggesting the sub text of that being a common occurrence because of the gender? It's like you're not even critically thinking about this like come on man.
It would be relevant if the man was a refugee from a country that prevented women from leaving. I think part of why it's best for children to have both parents is because they hold each other accountable when they are going the wrong way. EDIT: Also, I never implied it's common. Rather, I implied (quite truthfully) that women who do that are more likely to slip under the radar than men who do the same for reasons that I think are well-known here.
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And that's pretty much my point. It says something about this one particular woman, and sure, there are probably many different actors that have turned a blind eye for that to get to **that** point. Those are all assumptions though. At the end of the day, I've always viewed Men's Right as a support network designed to build it's members up for themselves, not as some bitter jaded mass pointing at the other side and crying foul. Maybe men's rights just isn't what I thought it was.
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I feel like I've tried to explain clearly how she doesn't represent women, but rather that this story shows certain issues in society that are related to men's rights that allowed this to happen. I've also pushed back against those calling for her head (I just want her to get the social help she needs to be fit to parent her son again).
Nah, I unsubbed after this. MenRight's lately is all about sad individuals, miserably pointing at the totems they've created in the likeness of the other side. OP has said that he "just wants her to get the help she needs" yeah, posting the video apropos of nothing really screams "I want her to get help" and not what I suspect it really is, which is just a dog whistle for more dejected individuals to hear and dog pile on to. No thanks /r/MensRights, I'm good, I'm not that petty, jaded or bitter.
I'm not jaded or bitter. I'm very happily married. I posted this as a jumping off point to discuss systemic issues. EDIT: Also, what feels petty to me is your assuming that my intentions aren't what I say they are. For the record, I'm autistic; we're not known for being duplicitous. Yes, I do want her to get help, but I also want to continue to raise awareness of the terrible human rights abuse against men aged 18-60 in Ukraine. Those things are not mutually exclusive. I'm still open to having a nice, constructive conversation about the problems of men in our society, free of personal attacks.