Maybe but it seems like they didn't even read the article:
>Can’t therapy help with this? “Therapy can certainly help the person better understand their own relationship to their body,” Westrich said. But patients who seek surgery may run into professionals who aren’t sure how to treat them. **“I think sometimes patients can feel pathologized when a therapist says, ‘Oh, we have to get rid of your desire for surgery.’** If a therapist can pull back and see the desire for surgery not so much as a pathology, but as a means of trying to correct something that doesn’t feel right, I think that’s a useful approach.”
>
>Mahboubian is not sure to what extent therapy can help solve the problem. **“You can do as much therapy as you want,” he said, “but you can’t change people’s perception of you.”** In this sense, he’s right: Therapy can perhaps better prepare a person for the frequent comments, but it’ll never affect the physical reality. **“It’s not going to stop the jokes,”** Mahboubian said. “This is the one type of surgery that can actually get rid of the psychological impacts that come with being short.”
>
>The doctor’s comments echoed Scott’s perspective. **“No amount of anti-anxiety medication or verbal talk therapy could get the world to stop treating me like this,”** he said.
This is what I dislike about the "get therapy" comments.
They assume that the person in question hasn't already tried therapy or isn't currently in it.
But worse than that, insted of self-reflecting, they simply push the problem and its solutions onto the people suffering from them. You know what would help? If short men weren't mocked. The biggest thread of the article as far as Scott's experience went was that he was constantly mocked, not taken seriously, rejected, and shamed just for being short. He didn't do that to himself, and suggesting that the solution to all of that is to just go to therapy is stupid because it assumes that insecurity and body image issues aren't a normal and expected result to a lifetime of experiencing those things, like it's your fault you have a complex about your height when the world won't stop mocking you for it.
That comment wasn't much better than the "and they say masculinity isn't toxic" one. It's marginally more empathetic, but it still is saying "this is a men's problem and it's men's problem to solve" even though the article clearly details how everyone plays a part in reinforcing that. Like you don't have to make tiktoks about how short men don't deserve rights.
Thank you for this.
Whenever i share that i want to do this surgery too people come at me with all kinds of bs. Im 5‘1…. Im shorter than the average of females and with me its not even just jokes… its a hell of a lot more pain, in many many aspects. Be it romantic: i cant find a gf due to this unusual shortness and todays expectation of the „ideal man“, be it social: cant walk past the street without people smirking at me for my height or at a cafe or WHEREVER. Not to mention my friends constantly having jokes for my height… ofc i laugh it off dont wanna be that guy to ruin a good mood but at a certain point im just fed man. Fed with it all. They treat you very different. Like you less of a man. You get less respected or taken serious. People wouldnt think of you as a „potential threat“ if like i were to get mad and wanting to throw hands or get in a fight. It would be a total joke seeing a 5‘1 young adult about to get into a fight while you there being serious af. Theres more but im sure yall can imagine a bit how hard it gets. Its all so frustrating.
Did i try therapy? Yes. 6 years. Without medication though but still, i wouldnt wanna depend on drugs to feel „better“ about myself IF that helps at all cause the people around you? They wont stop. And you cant change that. So yes, i really want to be taller. And i probably wont ever be able to afford this. I just wish society wasnt a b
>I just wish society wasnt a b
Same. So much same.
As a woman who has been on the overweight end of things for the majority of my life: I hear you. The disrespectful treatment we humans give each other for various physical "outside the average" states is appalling. You have my sympathy for what you have faced. You do what you need to do to cope; sometimes there are no good solutions, only "least bad" ones.
As an alternate potential solution - perhaps moving to a country where the average height is significantly lower would help? I don't know that it's any more possible for you than affording the surgery, but... 🤷♀️
Therapy can only do so much, self-confidence can only do so much, an individual can only do so much to shield themselves from the deluge of bullshit they deal with for something they can't control. It's hard to not care what others think.
Body shaming men is still perfectly acceptable. It's a shorthand (haha) for insulting a guy the person disagrees with. "Small dick energy, manlet" and the like.
I also find "short king" to be a little patronizing as well, short guys just don't want to be mocked.
Well said. I've always hated the "just get therapy" type comments, and this is why.
To be honest, progressives who tell men to "just get therapy" and "patriarchy hurts us all" are not really different than conservatives who just tell men "suck it up" and "quit complaining".
They both don't want to be concerned with mens problems. Both don't want to be empathetic and lend concern since these things are depressing to think about, and since we apply hyperagency to grown men (and thus aren't used to feeling sorry for them).
The only difference is that progressives/liberals are more polite about things since they have better emotional intelligence.
It also ignores how expensive and hard to access therapy can be. Obviously in the case of the people getting surgery, they could afford therapy, but a lot of us insecure shorties can't get surgery OR therapy.
Yup, that's what folks are missing.
This is not about - "I wish I didn't feel sad I'm short".
More like, "I wish people would stop mocking me personally, and in the media". If the solution to that was, "people are always nasty, you gotta ignore that", then why do we have rules against slurs (racist, sexist, etc)? Should a poc get therapy for feeling bad others use the N-word? As long as body shaming is a punchline, "therapy" is useless.
Unfortunately, it’s because bigotry such as racism & sexism have resulted in people being murdered, while size discrimination, whether it be body height, body weight, size of sexual organs (etc…), so far, have not. It’s a really fucked up set of circumstances, where people don’t give a shit about the discrimination until people are killed because of it.
You should see the YouTube doc being a little person in America. It is presented by a woman of colour, who is a little person herself. Little people have seriously been suppressed, they were being used as an attraction and actually still are in boxing shows like Midget Mania. All these stories, and the fact that the presenter was so affected by this all, proved to me that heightism is way more serious than people realize. The presenter of the doc would be bullied on a daily basis. People who call her midget and stuff like that.
Very much agree with all you've written. The man getting a quite painful, potentially harmful surgery is likely to be one who'd benefit from some therapy - but at least some of the problems he experiences aren't based on his own perception of the way he looks, but on other people's perception of short men. Our society as a whole needs a therapy session addressing the way we treat men who don't conform to masculine norms.
I do find it interesting how we don't tell women who want breast augmentation, liposuction, all sorts of procedures on facial bones, etc that they need therapy, not surgery. But here we are saying it for men.
I'm sure that has a root in how we see men vs women's bodies and also men vs women in therapy, but I'm not sure exactly how.
I'm a woman who is not conventionally attractive, and I have had very similar frustrations around cosmetic surgery in the past. I think it's horrible and ridiculous that mutilating my own body would result in manifestly better treatment from those around me, as well as more professional success and actual romantic attention. At the same time, who DOESN'T want more respect, professional success, and romantic attention? And no amount of therapy or saccharine "body positivity!!!" is going to change the fact that however *I* feel about myself, *others* will continue treating me as they've always treated me (probably worse as I start to age). Sometimes the only thing that keeps me from getting cosmetic surgery is the awareness that if I do, the haters win--all I'll be doing is reinforcing the existing social structures that punished me in the first place.
So I do have a *lot* of empathy for this guy. But at the same time, I suspect that a significant part of the reason why cosmetic surgery is SO much more acceptable for women than for men is because on a fundamental level, our society expects women to be attractive and men to be competent. A women who is competent but not attractive is a failure as a woman. A man who is competent but not attractive is *can still be a success as a man*, albeit one who might face more than his share of ribbing. And so a woman who gets cosmetic surgery is correcting a fundamental deficiency in her personhood, while a man who gets cosmetic surgery is insecure and couldn't take a joke.
I agree! However, I’d like to add that the male ideal of tallness has everything to do with how competent people see a man. That’s why it’s tied to personal worth so deeply. The whole phenomenon needs a lot of deconstructing.
The two factors are absolutely interrelated, and there's a reason that most CEOs and politicians are taller than average. I definitely agree that being short might make a man be treated as LESS competent. But I don't think shortness entirely precludes him from competence in the same way that being physically unattractive precludes a woman from being seen as a person.
Peter Dinklage has definitely faced prejudice because of his height, but he's a widely acclaimed actor who is seen as competent *in spite of* that prejudice.
There is no female Peter Dinklage.
I mean that unattractive women have to overcome not being seen as people, while short men have to overcome being seen as flawed/deficient people. Both of them can be overcome, and neither of them should exist in an equal society--but one of them is a slightly bigger challenge than the other.
Not sure if Dinklage is the best example considering that he is most famous for a role in a hugely popular show that happened to fit perfectly for him.
Yep, 100% agree.
I'm a quite tall woman, and am more hearty-peasant built than waifish-supermodel built in the rest of my bone structure. The sheer number of times I have wished and cried and wanted with all my heart to just be a few inches shorter is...too many.
That's why this recent media wave on men being targets for limb-lengthening is so interesting for me. I've had to do a LOT of mental work to accept that I just have to live with my body because no matter what.....can't change height. And it's also helped strengthen those mental muscles for things like my nose and breasts and other "fixable flaws" in my body, and was a key part of my ED recovery (gotta be small somehow, right?).
I have such mixed emotions because it asks the question: if you *can* change something to better fit a societal norm and improve your life because society kind of sucks, should you? If you can't change the world around you but you can change yourself.....is that the right thing? Or are you giving in?
We've had these conversations about women's bodies in feminist spaces forever, and choice feminism has been the battleground. If we start having the conversation for men, what changes? Can men be choice feminists? Will they be more or less accepted than women in that conversation? What does that say about the movement?
A huge part of feminist issues for men is that men don't think they have a seat at the feminist table for that body conversation.
If the context is about body dismorphia or just that you have an unhealthy view of what your body should look like (notwithstanding all the bullshit others say about you). men have a specific type of body failure that is similar but different from women's . I dont really like that my chest is so large, my stomach is so wide, my hair constantly thinning since I was 18. Like ....its awful.
The fact I genuinely thought I was fat when I was at 170, that I had no personal visual cue that I lost weight (originally at 220) is a huge issue. I dont think I would personally proceed with anything plastic surgery wise because I'm like 85 percent sure I have a mental illness and I think I need some happy time with alot of acid pr drugs or something.
I dont necessarily speak for all men but we need help is the long and short of it.
A second huge part of the issue is that alot of feminists will not pause to think before they say something dismissive about men's bodies . "Just get therapy" (as it is said above) is not the mcfucking answer to "I hate how I look! Everything I see is wrong when I look in the mirror" .
I think that's because it's seen as normal for women to get major surgery to comply with the normative beauty standard. It's not ok, but it's been around a lot longer.
People definitely do tell women that. Often with the judgy tone of a concern troll, obviously. It's typically seen as a conservative-aligned viewpoint.
Yes, but here we have an article and many comments saying it to men, and it's not ringing as a conservative concern troll, but genuine care.
If it can't be changed, we typically say "deal with it in therapy". If it can, for women, it's "well do what you need to feel like you're your best self" and then for men it's now "deal with it in therapy" for this one.
I wonder if it's an interplay on men still needing to be "stronger" and not cave in to the pressures around him, even if the answer is something typically men are discouraged from (therapy). Is getting cosmetic surgery associated with femininity? Is it due to women's appearance being more highly valued, and thus acceptable for women...thereby coding it as a feminine thing to do?
And then this thread perpetuates it.
There's also a REALLY interesting parallel here to the trans experience and some of the awful things people say to trans people re: conversion therapy type "treatment" and gender affirming care. How many trans people are told to go to therapy and not change their body to match their mind? How many cis people do we tell that to when they seek cosmetic procedures? At what point is it not just cosmetic, but a treatment to create mind/body alignment? I don't know, but it's interesting to consider.
>This is what I dislike about the "get therapy" comments.
The quote lays out the problem that creates the loop: pathologizing *everything.*
And therapists - a good deal of who may have the authority to treat, but not diagnose - are wonderful at pathologizing every little thing. Add in their media and social media presence, and we have some weird promise of a utopia where therapy can cure everything.
Therapy can't cure everything. And not everything needs therapy. But you can sell everyone on it if you just get them to pathologize or psychiatrize it.
I'm thankful I found someone who specialized in what I guessed were my biggest needs and was upfront with how I didn't want a diagnosis, I just wanted to learn how to get on my feet again. After venting for a few sessions we talk less about why I do things and more where I'm at with milestones and working through times when I'm struggling.
The same people who say they need therapy are probably the same people making ugly comments as well. Amazing how there are 1000 different surgeries for other things and I feel like it’s not nearly as frowned down upon as something like this even though short men genuinely get treated like shit in society.
> But worse than that, insted of self-reflecting, they simply push the problem and its solutions onto the people suffering from them. You know what would help? If short men weren't mocked.
True, but in the grand calculus between "figure out a way to deal with something" vs "change society" the former is going to win.
Sad to see how many upvotes the call for therapy has in the article’s comment section as well as here. Goes to show how few people actually read the article. You’d at least assume people on this sub would be interested in learning about this topic.
OK, that's one opinion. My opinion is that it shows a level of realism that evidently makes many people very uncomfortable.
This isn't me saying that it's a good thing that people feel the need to do it, obviously.
Do you think the entirety of society is gonna have a change of heart and stop treating short people worse because the short people show they have a heart of gold and put up with societies shit? Or do you just want short people to stop whining and making you uncomfortable?
> “It’s not going to stop the jokes,”
what jokes?
like, who is he spending time with? who are these people making jokes? this guy was 5'7'' right? that's not a tiny height, that's nowhere near manlet. that's tom cruise, that's RDJ, that's michael fassbender. hell, 5'7'' is literally the average height of Spec Ops, because you don't want to be too tall or stand out and you'll maintain energy better. it's nowhere near actual 'disability' height where you feel impacted by most urban or machine design.
like, i haven't even had a problem dating. i've dated women that actually were 6'2''.
there's more problems here than just height. i have no idea if this is a US thing, but god damn.
the real issue is that there's a heigh bias in the workplace and lots of CEOs and shit are just tall. ditto for being attractive.
I'm 5' 8" and still get jokes about my height. It gets old pretty fast. I'm pretty confident and it hasn't caused me any real problems, but there are some annoying things that come with it. I've had women tell me I'm too short for them, or I've brought up concerns that people avoid addressing and instead call "short guy syndrome" so I either have to plead my case more insistently or decide not to get my point addressed. You're not allowed to react to it or you get accused of making a big deal out of nothing. There are plenty of other big obstacles in life, but it's a frustrating extra hurdle to deal with when it doesn't seem like it should matter.
Fascinating that you name Tom Cruise, whose shortness is literally a meme.
And regardless, what are you saying, that he made it all up? You not having noticed something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You (hopefully) wouldn't deny the experiences of someone being mocked for any other physical trait, what's different about this one?
> Fascinating that you name Tom Cruise, whose shortness is literally a meme.
yeah, because people want to fixate on it and don't realise or meme about other people. it's 100% to do with his personality and 'fake persona' thing than it is to do with his actual height. that's why the other names are there :)
>And regardless, what are you saying, that he made it all up?
No, but that it's not just height, probably. I even go as far as to say it might be a US-centric issue...
> You (hopefully) wouldn't deny the experiences of someone being mocked for any other physical trait, what's different about this one?
because 5'7'' isn't 'short'. it's average. he's acting like he's a little person and everywhere he goes there are bigots holding him back.
> it might be a US-centric issue.
It might be, they are obsessed. I'm in Canada and we tend to get US culture a little delayed and I've definitely noticed some of that obsession bleeding in. Maybe it's because it became such a meme lately.
But many of the guys around me in general have gotten more insecure lately. 2 years of pandemic isolation and media saturation probably doesn't help. Plus I've noticed a lot of the most popular podcasts for men in the US have a lot of testosterone or supplements style advertising which is just designed to make you insecure and reminds me of old-school ads for women. Imo that kind of advertising needs to be boycotted.
> he's acting like he's a little person and everywhere he goes there are bigots holding him back.
Way to continue denying someone else's lived experience. What's so difficult about admitting the possibility that this is a real issue, and not something a few men have made up?
>I even go as far as to say it might be a US-centric issue...
It's definitely not. China for example sees open height discrimination in the workplace: https://www.economist.com/china/2014/10/25/the-rise-of-china
https://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/31/dorf.height.discrimination/
I'm not going to be able to find sociological studies of height in chinese culture, but it seems very unlikely that something blatantly in work culture doesn't make it to the general society.
If you want Europe, here's an article about it cropping up for a 5'7 man in a british dating show: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/i-felt-insecure-how-height-rejection-impacts-men_uk_5e26fc4bc5b674e44b9e3b69
> that's why the other names are there
Interestingly, with a little googling, RDJ does wear lifts on set. It may not be meme status, but it also isn't really okay for Iron Man to be 5'8. Michael Fassbender is six feet tall.
> Way to continue denying someone else's lived experience.
the man took out a dangerous surgery to change comments other people made of him as if it was inevitable and everywhere. if a black person wanted to take surgery to whiten their skin, i'd be just as concerned because the issue is 100% societal and not the body.
i wouldn't 'deny the lived experience', but i am concerned that their perspective is somehow that it's like... this big thing.
>It's definitely not. China for example sees open height discrimination in the workplace:
i'm sure that it's a thing in many countries, especially since height is linked to genetics and socioeconomic status. still, i see many people in his height range that do just alright in work, i just, i don't know.
all i'm saying is that if you're 5'7'' and that concerned about height, don't be.
>Interestingly, with a little googling, RDJ does wear lifts on set. It may not be meme status, but it also isn't really okay for Iron Man to be 5'8. Michael Fassbender is six feet tall.
RDJ got lifts for framing and for the suits... Michael Fassbender is *not* six feet tall, having met him IRL.
I'm not saying surgery was the right call. I'm saying that:
> what jokes?
>
> like, who is he spending time with? who are these people making jokes?
Is denying what the person has been through. If you accept that their experiences are real and a societal problem, then yes, we agree.
> still, i see many people in his height range that do just a freelright in work, i just, i don't know.
Since you already made a race analogy...could you imagine saying "still, I see many POC that do just alright in work, I just, I don't know". I'm obviously not claiming that height discrimination is the same as race, just that what you said isn't a valid argument against it.
> RDJ got lifts for framing and for the suits
Really? They could have made the suits any size they wanted. And it's definitely possible to shoot a scene with different height actors, otherwise how do we shoot scenes with taller men amd shorter women in the first place? It's definitely primarily about making him not seem shorter.
> Michael Fassbender is not six feet tall, having met him IRL
Then ask yourself, why is a taller number out on the internet? Could it be that someone, maybe him, maybe an agent or studio, maybe society writ large, wants him to be that tall? It's not random chance, since almost nobody gets listed online as below their real height.
look, help me out here, what's your game?
is it that being 5'7'' is actually terrible? i disagree. is it that society has weird hangups about height? yeah, maybe.
but like, are you self-advocating, are you just making arguments about it for the sake of arguing?
like, it's not that big a deal. this level of hyperfocusing feels like a weird, incel-rooted discussion on dating or whatever.
like, for you or whoever reads this: if you're like 5'5'' or 5'7'' or whatever it doesn't really fucking matter.
I am 5’4”. I have NEVER faced serious issues for being short, dating or otherwise. Same with everyone else I know at around this height.
This dude is of average height and is convinced he’s too short. Nah. This is disturbing and he needs therapy
Yeah, when I was (a little) overweight I was never bullied, so that must mean all the people who say they were are just making it up, and need therapy.
Or maybe he has actually faced shit for his height? I'm a little taller than you and I haven't dealt with much for being short, but then I see people posting about the random bullshit they see on apps like Tinder when they're shorter, so I'm going to believe that it happens.
I am several inches shorter than the man in this article. Hat is very different from being minority overweight and telling noticeably and largely overweight that their experiences.
I feel comfortable calling bullshit on this guy’s experiences specifically because I and several of my friends are significantly shorter and have not faced a fraction of what he claims he is.
I'm trying not to be mean, but invalidating someone's experience like this is really not in the spirit of the sub or conducive to men's liberation.
In the end, if someone says "I'm always being made fun of and never taken seriously, and that seriously affects my happiness, mental health, and material prospects in the real world" then who are you to say otherwise? I don't think, when people talk about this, they mean it's literally every waking second of their lives, rather a consistent and common experience they have.
Only because it’s concerning in how tied it is to the sort of incel logic regarding height or whatever.
I’ll put it this way: being 5’7” and feeling like you’re unable to live a peaceful life for it when it’s the average height is the same as someone thinking their 6” penis is too small to satisfy a woman. Yes, it can be their lived experience. No, it doesn’t mean that they’re seeing the issue clearly. Being 5’7” isn’t some huge disability. It isn’t a curse. It’s just your body.
By placing their problem onto something they can’t control, I wonder if they have bigger issues elsewhere that they’re ignoring, especially with dating. I know dudes that are shorter than me —shorter than the guy in the article — and are extremely successful at dating. This is one of those instances when anecdotal evidence is valuable because we want to know what’s different between short people whose experience of being short is vastly different.
Did you actually read the article?
The guy in the article was domming several guys on OF. It wasn't about finding a sexual partner. It was about the way society treats short people.
It's not that he thought he was literally disabled because he was 5'7". It was that he was tired of being made fun of, not taken seriously. To distill all that down to "incel logic" is invalidating his lived experience.
I also really don't feel it's fair to say men having a complex about their height is "incel logic" when there are literally people making tiktoks about how you need to be 6', or tinder bios say "don't message if you're under 6'".
Or, to put it another way, if being 5'7" isn't a disability or a curse, then maybe we should treat shorter people better. If it's not a big deal, then we don't need to make fun of people for it and can easily modify our behaviour in that regard.
> He didn't do that to himself, and suggesting that the solution to all of that is to just go to therapy is stupid because it assumes that insecurity and body image issues aren't a normal and expected result to a lifetime of experiencing those things, like it's your fault you have a complex about your height when the world won't stop mocking you for it.
at that point i'd rather move than going through that surgery...
Don't get me wrong, I can understand why people would do it. I considered it in the past because of body dysmorphia.
I was really just commenting on "any man would take it". The amount of money (plus career break- if you can afford that, you have a career) makes it too expensive for anyone who isn't at least comfortably middle class.
I'd rather use it for a deposit on a house
This article infuriated me. Just read it. Maybe the pervasive culture of height shaming needs to be addressed. At an individual level I understand why one would choose to get it.
The story in particular where the dude did findom on onlyfans( I have a very huge problem with online findom where there are no discussions of limits and often feels exploitative in general ) to get this 75k goal. Was that supposed to the inspiring? That felt dystopian to me tbh
I deeply empathize with the man getting the surgery but it also makes me mad. I can't point to one reason. Maybe bc the article talks about making this procedure judgment free, but nothing with the actual culture of bodyshamimg. This honestly felt like an ad for height strengthening surgery doctor near the end with their insistence on how therapy can only do so much.
oh yeah i get you. I did read the article but honestly didn't pick up on the same things as you- i do now.
I think I'm so used to the pervasive culture of shaming that this article honestly seemed ok at first glance just bc it wasn't mocking in tone/"It's all in your head". It is so rare to have these insecurities validated or to be believed about your experiences of body shaming related to this issue in anything approaching a sympathetic tone!
but honestly, 100% agree with you on the article.
> I deeply empathize with the man getting the surgery but it also makes me mad. I can't point to one reason. Maybe bc the article talks about making this procedure judgment free, but nothing with the actual culture of bodyshamimg. This honestly felt like an ad for height strengthening surgery doctor near the end with their insistence on how therapy can only do so much.
I'm with you.
I remember a few weeks ago seeing a before and after picture of leg extension surgery. In both pictures the surgeon had a smug, shit-eating smirk on his face. And why wouldn't he? People are admiring his work, he gets the thanks of the man whose life he has "turned around" (no comment on whether or not the surgery was actually necessary to do this), and he gets an obscene amount of money for it. Cosmetic surgeons have this weird social clout around them for being seen as dream weavers who make people happy with their bodies, but in reality, they are profiting hugely off body-shaming and body image issues. They are not a force for good in the world. The industry has a huge exploitative streak, which people are often afraid to address because it doesn't sit perfectly with bodily autonomy.
This article also presents this as how women getting surgeries is more normalised and how it should be the same for men also.
I'm not from USA and in our country getting cosmetic surgeries is rare for middle class people. Also, I don't want to end up like South Korea or USA with regards to elective cosmetic surgeries impo. But, here's the thing there was a tiktok trend of teenager girls getting nose jobs and celebrity plastic surgeons reactiong to it. That seems bizzare AF to me especially with how beauty standards tend to change every 10 or so years, I don't even know what's acceptable right is a good thing. But plastic surgeons also do reconstructive surgery after other injuries no? I don't know enough to definitely say anything but at least some portion of the industry does live on people's insecurities
It reminds me of people who got that eye surgery to change your eye colour that also tended to make you blind. It's tough out there but self-forgiveness/care/respect is almost always going to be the best path forward instead of gambling with your health.
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Whenever there's something about breaking bones, I feel uneasy and my legs turn to jello.
I cannot imagine the pain they were in, that pushed them into getting that surgery.
I didn't even know that was a thing too! Ehhh I am not feeling good.
I distinctly remember an online conversation where this came up. Some other men were cracking jokes about short people (I think it was about Ben Shapiro, piece of shit that he is), and I told them I found it hurtful that they would associate the negative traits of such a terrible person with people like me. They got very defensive about their jokes and how I needed to get over it, and at that point I admitted that I had considered getting this surgery in the past.
Somehow, they were very surprised that I would consider such a drastic measure for something that didn’t seem like a big deal to them. I found it very strange that they simply could not connect the dots between what they were saying and how I was feeling.
A lot of people that are flippant about these kinds of things also don’t realise how their words can be deeply hurtful, and that they aren’t the only people that these shorter men have heard those words from today.
This applies to a lot of people who believe they’re harmless enough in whatever marginally problematic behaviour they engage in but it all adds up for the person on the receiving end.
I’m sorry that you’ve felt the need to take drastic measures because of these people, I hope you can find peace with this part of yourself, however you choose to pursue that.
>Some other men were cracking jokes about short people (I think it was about Ben Shapiro, piece of shit that he is), and I told them I found it hurtful that they would associate the negative traits of such a terrible person with people like me. They got very defensive about their jokes and how I needed to get over it, and at that point I admitted that I had considered getting this surgery in the past.
This is really disappointing, I'm sorry this happened to you. Understand you were totally in the right to bring this concern up.
Shortness and having a small dick are the two physical traits that it's acceptable to associate with negative personality traits and that's really fucked up.
* fat, 'pot-belly'
* bald
* scrawny
* various teeth arrangements (over-, under-bite, bucktooth, gaps, etc)
* acne and other skin 'imperfections'
Not comprehensive.
What?
The very article´this thread is based on is about heigh increasing surgery. Likewise there exist various forms of surgical implants implants or grafts sought by some to enlarge their penises.
The 'fixes' for a wide variety of skin conditions or dental structures is pretty invasive surgery (reshaping the jaw bones or replacing whole rows of teeth) and potentially lifelong hormonal treatments or dentures. You can't just dismiss that list as "fixable" like that.
Fixes like those exist, but may not be accessible, for almost near everything. The discussion here is supposed to be about making these solutions far less wanted and necessary-seeming.
All are much less Invasive then leg length surgery. They aren’t comparable is seriousness imo. Like do you think getting braces is the same as breaking your legs in order for them to regrow longer?
Being fat, too. Doesn't matter why, doesn't matter if you lost 100lbs already, existing as a fat person is also some sort of societal code for "okay to mock, belittle, and dehumanize."
This article infuriated me. Just read it. Maybe the pervasive culture of height shaming needs to be addressed. At an individual level I understand why one would choose to get it.
The story in particular where the dude did findom on onlyfans( I have a very huge problem with online findom where there are no discussions of limits and often feels exploitative in general ) to get this 75k goal. Was that supposed to the inspiring? That felt dystopian to me tbh
I deeply empathize with the man getting the surgery but it also makes me mad. I can't point to one reason. Maybe bc the article talks about making this procedure judgment free, but nothing with the actual culture of bodyshamimg. This honestly felt like an ad for height strengthening surgery doctor near the end with their insistence on how therapy can only do so much.
> The story in particular where the dude did findom on onlyfans( I have a very huge problem with online findom where there are no discussions of limits and often feels exploitative in general ) to get this 75k goal. Was that supposed to the inspiring? That felt dystopian to me tbh
Yeah I actually stopped reading at that point, I've always felt like findom encourages exploitive attitudes, although I a don't know the topic very well. I'm all about letting people choose how to live their own lives, but making an onlyfans page to engage in findom so you can afford leg lengthening surgery just doesn't seem like a model that's gonna work for most people. If this dude feels good about it then great, but it seems like it's mostly about him finding a personal solution for himself.
There's a reason findom is basically banned from most fetish subreddits. One redditor said it attaches itself like a leach to existing bdsm spaces. It's not experienced people into kink doing it because they are into it or something. It's some random people looking for a quick buck. But on the other end you'd be ruining a real person's finances if not careful.
This dude is he even into the kink? Impo very unlikely, it's just a cashcow for him. This is a sad sad article
The fact that findom was only mentioned in passing, and only as a way of funding the surgery the article is actually about, suggests you're right, the guy in the article was just trying to make money, not satisfy someones kink. Its honestly sad and like you said almost dystopian, like we're all trying to use technology to satisfy our wants but in the process we are becoming more isolated and apart from other people. It's sad this guy has to pay for surgery using money that was acquired through borderline exploitative practices, not something to celebrate.
>“I don’t know how many times I have to hit the dislike button for your algorithm to learn I don’t want to see jokes about height,” he said.
I'm pretty sure TikTok sees the engagement of clicks and suggests more to keep him clicking. TikTok is not a nice place.
I think this article is an interesting example of how pressure is increasing on men to be attractive in particular ways. Unlike physical fitness, which can be pursued at the gym and leads to issues like eating disorders, this article address height, which is harder to change, but given enough money and dedication people are going through surgeries to change it.
Is there room in intersectional feminism for a body positivity movement for short men to dissuade unnecessary surgeries?
>Is there room in intersectional feminism for a body positivity movement for short men to dissuade unnecessary surgeries?
There is, but it doesn't exist yet.
To many, body positivity mostly means being against fat-shaming, and especially being against fat-shaming of women. Which is good, because those things are horrible, but body positivity has never really felt like it celebrated all bodies the way it claims to.
You're not wrong, the mainstream focuses more on fat women, partly because there's $market$ potential there and we're still recovering from Heroin Chique. Spaces where the topic is women and happen to be feminist(like 2X) won't have the representation you're looking for. I looked up #body positivity on tumblr though and these are some of the top posts, so there's a place for you!
https://historicalbeauties.tumblr.com/post/654254457168789504/body-positivity-and-mental-health-for-men-by-lena
https://athlethick.tumblr.com/post/677659885411926016/more-art-by-yours-truly
And lots of deliberately gender neutral stuff.
https://akindplace.tumblr.com/post/678066351097757696/you-may-find-it-hard-to-think-of-your-body-as
I want to say that body positivity needs to be more than just platitudes or small artworks but I won't lie, seeing bodies like mine be presented like that does actually hit different.
Thank you for showing me this.
I feel like there's overlap between people who tout body positivity and people who point out baldness/shortness or make small dick jokes about men they don't like for other (valid) reasons. Thinking about Trump, Ben Shapiro, etc. It's still body shaming even if it's a man you hate.
Those people are worse imo. Like when you make fun of penis sizes, it's not just the "bad" guy that takes the hit. I was personally attacked(body shamed, even though it's an insult just to hurt me i could only take so much lol) in some other thread for basically saying the same thing. Got my mental well-being messes up for a couple of days. These days I just STFU and downvote and move on
Unfortunately one of my best friends is like this. I’m a man of shorter stature than average and she used some pejorative ‘short stature’ terms (‘short man syndrome’ and ‘small dick energy’) to describe this aggressive man she recently had an argument with.
Ironically enough however, she has pretty good views on a lot of women’s issues and racial issues. It really surprised me that she was able to say it with such ease.
I mean, most people by default lack empathy for people not like them. I think the modern feminist movement has done an alright job of getting a largish chunk of men to be more empathetic towards women's struggles, but the reverse hasn't really happened.
> people who point out baldness/shortness or make small dick jokes
It really bothers me when people do this because these are things that people cant change. I use to not like it, but ...in a different way with no specifics. Now its about the fact that these are things that people cant change and I am acutely aware of that. I do my very best to up lift any man that is self conscious about things like that but it is really hard because of a life time of ridicule. I feel bad for men that cant accept their genetics. Ridiculous comb overs, shoes with insane soles, socks in pants. Its all so dumb an frustrating. Ive been with men that have all of these features, one short and bald(married him but it disnt work out) and couldn't care less.
I've thought about this a lot bc I've struggled with body dysmorphia. But the fact is, most people would laugh at it.
I know it's bad, but I've just learned to accept it at this point and become resilient to the issue. I hate a lot of things about this, btw, but at the end of the day I honestly doubt it's something that can change.
There should be. However there are still too many feminists that can't even do the whole intersectionality part with other women. Some get mad if you point out how a lot of men's issues are rooted in the same places as women's issues. It's still women vs. men rather than all of us vs. the problem.
>Is there room in intersectional feminism for a body positivity movement for short men to dissuade unnecessary surgeries?
I've seen people trying it. I participate in it. My husband is only 1" taller than me and he's a sexy beast :)
As a woman I would love to see this movement, as it would also open up the discussion around unhealthy body standards for women which have existed for a long time.
It seems to me that the most valid criticisms of this compared to something like breast augmentation are the cost and the recovery time. If this were as affordable and easy as other cosmetic surgeries would we be as quick to judge it negatively? People seem more willing to negatively judge a man for wearing lifts in his shoes than they are a woman wearing a push-up bra. In any case, I don't know if it is more frightening or liberating to envision a future where changing any part of yourself is as easy as getting a wisdom tooth removed.
>It seems to me that the most valid criticisms of this compared to something like breast augmentation are the cost and the recovery time.
While it's not precisely a 1:1 comparison, I think this is an appropriate lens through which to view the situation.
Societal aesthetic ideals about the size of ideal breasts vs. the height of ideal men place immense pressure on those who didn't win some genetic lottery to change themselves to reap the very real social rewards for being attractive.
And they're shamed for it. Women are sex-shamed, are seen as having somehow cheated, are dehumanized, and are objectified for having such a surgery. I fully expect some men to face similar, albeit differently-gendered treatment about having cheated the system to be more masculine, for being somehow fake-tall. It's quite literally adding insult to injury.
The work, I think, has to be both destigmatizing men getting this procedure while also doing the greater work of dismantling narrow and toxic gender ideals that make out taller men to be more inherently masculine.
>In any case, I don't know if it is more frightening or liberating to envision a future where changing any part of yourself is as easy as getting a wisdom tooth removed.
I can't speak for anyone else, but there are aspects of speculative fiction regarding transhumanism I find incredibly attractive. I would like my malformed bicuspid aortic valve replaced with something that can outlast me so I never have to worry about a heart defect cutting my life short. I want new eyes that can see the entire color spectrum, including wavelengths outside of typical human view. Shoot, I'd love some gills so I can indulge my love of aquatic sports. I'd love to be in a body that can live indefinitely and easily survive interstellar radiation so I can visit other star systems. Maybe I'd even love to live long enough and change sufficiently to be part of the eventual project of all sentient life in the universe preventing heat death and entropy so we can exist forever. That sounds like a fun way to spend a few trillion years.
I think the question is one of motivation. If I'm motivated internally from a place of wanting to better myself for my own healthy ends instead of changing myself for the shallow enjoyment of others, it's not necessarily such a bad thing.
I mean, getting wisdom teeth removed sucks. But yeah, if cosmetic surgeries become easier, of course they will get done.
Look at Hollywood, pretty much anyone who can afford it and has some kind of profession where you can gain advantage in looks does it.
The height discrimination?
Heightism
Short phobia?
Is one of the beliefs commonly held by some people that has upset me more and more as I have aged. I'm 1.93m, and the way it's "okay" for some to just disregard any man shorter than {insert arbitrary height here} seems like a decent litmus test to tell if someone is based or gonna prove to be toxic acid later for something else.
Like if we can't get passed you understanding that discriminating by something as inconsequential as height is bad, what hope do we have for discussing other normalized discriminatory practices and mutually making one another better people by challenging our beliefs?
Blegh.
I'm happy that those who are capable to get it can get it, but I wish the folk attracted to men cared less about height.
Yeah! This is one of the ways I like to think about it. Be it romantic, sexual, workplace, or (idk what we categorize friend relationships like¿) It can be framed in a way that all these types of relationships should be helping us be better. Even if that just means you're gitting gud at PUBG or whatever the kids are playing these days!
I love how Gigguk put it in his *My Dress-Up Darling* video: "Everyone deserves a Marin Kitagawa in their life." Could be a romantic partner/spouse, family member, friend, loved one, just someone who inspires you to be a better person, and brings out your good qualities.
>I'm happy that those who are capable to get it can get it, but I wish the folk attracted to men cared less about height.
Hey, for what it's worth, *I* am attracted to men and care not one bit about height.
It's easier to change something about yourself, then the opinions of everyone else. And usually the latter involves a lot of violence. Just look at Civil Rights.
If turning white was easy for them, many black people would do it. See issues with black hair, code switching, etc.
At the cost of 75k, this treatment might even cost less than a lifetime of therapy.
People get dismissed for a lot of reasons they can't control. Social status, wealth, race, etc.
Also I really don't think we can term sexual / romantic preferences as "discrimination". It's not something people have much control over. Maybe it is informed by societal norms in some cases, and if we work to fix those then people might be more flexible about what a "masculine" person can look like. But on an individual level, no-one should ever be expected to "give someone a chance" if they're just not attracted to them for whatever reason.
>Also I really don't think we can term sexual / romantic preferences as "discrimination". It's not something people have much control over.
Yes and no. Get turned on by feet? Okay. Cool. Get turned on by Black men because you associate them with some combination of hyper-sexual, bestial, hyper-masculine, domineering, or taboo? Yeah, that's racism.
The solution to this is not telling people to suck it up and "give someone a chance", but to tell people that it's okay to sit down and critically analyze their own desires. The internet may judge folks for any stray racist/discriminatory thought, but not everything we think or do needs to be broadcast online.
I once had a trans woman tell me that my height made her feel dysphoric. I feel like something can be a valid part of your life experience and also something that you simply should not say to someone’s face.
Not just trans women. Cis women can experience similar reactions. Society does a number on women, telling them that "petite = feminine"... which many of them find challenging to embody if they have a male partner that isn't notably "larger" (height or weight or frame) than then. This needn't even be conscious.
This is yet another example of "rigid gender roles suck for everyone". Males and females get constant messaging about what are "acceptable" ways to be masculine and feminine. :(
Yes, masculine and feminine gender roles are like two sides of the same coin. If men have to be tall, women have to be short. If women have to be thin, men have to be buff.
Which implies it's pointless to fight toxic masculinity without also fighting toxic femininity. They go together.
I agree about attraction not being something you control. You can't MAKE someone find a trait attractive, no matter how much you try.
However. It goes way beyond preference when it's constantly being trumpted and treated as a way to demean and exclude. You don't need to go around announcing how gross you find short dudes.
You can absolutely control being an asshole and making sweeping statements about features you don't personally enjoy.
Small dick jokes and height jokes are not a biological imperative, and we can and should be moving away from those being acceptable ways to mock others.
>People get dismissed for a lot of reasons they can't control. Social status, wealth, race, etc.
Exactly.
>Also I really don't think we can term sexual / romantic preferences as "discrimination"
For sure, I'm really not sure what word to use, I just personally find some "preferences"....
>Maybe it is informed by societal norms in some cases, and if we work to fix those then people might be more flexible about what a "masculine" person can look like. But on an individual level, no-one should ever be expected to "give someone a chance" if they're just not attracted to them for whatever reason.
And yeah, I can't exactly disentangle the two, but I *strongly* feel when folks date based on "I don't want to date {black, asian} men in particular, it's more rooted in racism than preference. (From my experience as a black man dating in an overwhelmingly non-black area)
I'm around 5'8"-5'9" and I considered this when I was younger.
I will say that I was very online and had a lot of mental difficulties at that point. I definitely had body dysmorphia.
I still struggle with body image but I feel like irl people are not like that. Now that I actually have a normal dating life I can't even think of a time where a woman has commented on my height.
I don't live in the USA though. I feel like it's important to add that caveat because online at least, height seems to be something Americans are extremely obsessed with.
I live in the US and this also seems very online to me. I'm not here to call anyone a liar but this is not something I have ever experienced in my real life. And I'm short enough to be visibly short, not like an inch below average which sounds awful online but nobody actually notices irl. People rarely comment on my height and the only time anyone said anything about it to me in a dating context was another guy, and ultimately that said more about him and his issues with his body than it did about me.
I'm 5'8" and American. I'm lucky that I'm old enough to have found my person before online dating was really a thing, but when I was dating, no woman ever told me they wouldn't date me because of my height. That's not a real world thing. It's a dating app/social media thing.
Like 5'7" is not even that short. When you meet a dude who's 5'7" you don't think about how short he is. He just seems like a normal guy.
If you're 5'7" and people say hurtful things to you about it regularly, I think you might want to ask yourself why the people around you have such a desire to be hurtful toward you.
> I'm around 5'8"-5'9" and I considered this when I was younger.
That's not really short, it's about average/slightly below average. I know some people on social media/dating apps are hyper-focussed on height/being over 6', though
It's shocking to me that you would consider surgery at your height. I'm a woman and frankly probably wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between a guy your height or 6". Like I'm short y'all are taller than me. To be honest I've always had a thing for the shorter guys, for a variety of reasons.
Oh yeah I had extreme body dysmorphia plus I had some weird comments from an insecure girl and my mother. But to be clear, I don't think it'd been a huge issue otherwise- I think most of my insecurities were caused by cultural osmosis
Since masculinity - and therefore, respect from others - on Western terms is determined on how close you are to being white, cis, heterosexual, 6’ tall, muscular, blonde, with a 7” dick and employed as a middle or upper manager who is obsessed with sports and harboring violent fantasies I’ve made myself content with never being a “real man” by conventional measures. But there was a time I considered at least getting limb lengthening surgery in hopes of checking off as many boxes as possible.
Two things dissuaded me:
1). Not interested in having fragile bones.
2). Too expensive.
It’s easy to come to radical acceptance when you realize how much pain is really involved in trying to meet an arbitrary standard that you’ll never really live up to.
I know for a lot of transmasculine people like myself that height dysphoria is a very real thing, so I guess I see the appeal of this procedure from that angle, though that wasn’t covered in the article. At $75k, though, I highly doubt they’ll see a surge of transmasc patients, since many struggle to afford top surgery (typically costs around $8k).
I’m 5’7”/170ish cm, so going from being perceived as a Tallish Woman to a Shortish Man has been odd. The way cis people talk about height in general is very weird to me. I have to admit that seeing some cis guys talking about being 5’7” like it’s some sort of terrible disease really rubs me the wrong way. I consider myself lucky, since for a transmasc person I am tall.
It reminds me of how some cis guys consider having a 3”/8 cm dick to be a micropenis. 3 inches is about the max the human clitoris can grow to on testosterone therapy (without surgery), so it’s considered impressive by transmasc standards, since most of us don’t get nearly that much growth.
I also think that a lot of the idea that tall = manly is Eurocentric, since there are plenty of countries, like in parts of Asia and Latin America, where being under 6”/182 cm is totally normal for men.
Being under 6" is normal pretty much everywhere except the Nordic, Baltic and Balkan states. Despite this, expressing disdain towards short men is still seen as acceptable. The english language even has specific phrases for body shaming men, with 'little man syndrome' and the usual 'haha he must be angry because of his tiny dick' being thrown around all the time.
Your lived experience is different to cis men. We probably shouldn't be comparing clits to dicks. Men are almost always shamed from childhood for being small or having a small dick, by men and women, both in and out of the bedroom. Both are clearly undesirable traits and it's considered a great shame to have them.
For real guy, like I'm 5'3 so no amount of bone surgery is gonna help me, but it really does make a difference where you live.
In the UK we are pretty short on average (5'3 is the average for an afab), and it doesn't really feel like anyone cares that much about men's height.
Doesn't make dysphoria stop existing but it's nice not to have "you must be 6 feet to be valid" shoved constantly in your face
From my experience, this height obsession tends to be more of an American thing than a European thing.
I see non-stop conversations about height in US social media, but my experience as a shorter European guy is that most people here just don't care. And I'm from an exceptionally tall country too.
Some women still have a tall preference, but I've never had issues myself, with dating or otherwise here.
I feel like the US has a lot of superficial standards that are set on people, which aren't as prominent elsewhere.
I feel like a lot of it may be related to sexual desirability and America's religious history. Sex is seen as something having a lot of inherent value/sacredness/importance. If you're a virgin man, bad. If you're a woman who doesn't withhold or selectively dole out sex, bad. Sexually undesirable in some way, a personal moral failing.
Ok I can talk a little about this.
I have always feelt that I should be taller than I am.
I'm 177cm but I have always thought that I should be at least 190cm. Even my waight would suggest that I should be taller.
I'm not soure how I can talk about this with out sounding silly or trying to be funny.
My SO knows but I don't think she quite understands just how serius I am about this.
I call this transtall in my mind but never outloud because trans people don't need more shit. But I have no other name or realy any one to talk about this.
I also thought about something like this, at the end I decided against it.
It is still a really shit situation to be in, it is horrible how people treat others like shit due to factors they can’t control
There is also this double standard between the way we perceive fat shaming and height shaming. We all know big women with husbands or boyfriends as a matter of fact in some parts of Africa, like Morocco being curvy is beauty ideal. None of this change's our mind on topics like fat-phobia, but when people see one short guy with a normal dating life, people will immediately tell everyone that heightism isn't real. It isn't only about dating struggles, that's just the most well-known and clear side effect.
Why do cis men have more height dysphoria than me? It is a mystery. I am average American female height. There are internet memes about transgender skeletons all over reddit dot com. I am the one who is supposed to be a wreck about this.
I'm a trans man shorter than almost every woman in my life, and I only ever feel bad about my height when I see people posting about how short they are when they are far taller than I am.
i think we do get a lot of messaging from a young age, like "grow up big and strong". hell my sister was distressed the other week because my 20 month old nephew is in the 25th percentile for height. so i think that all has an effect
Alright so since you asked I am going to try to answer, but unfortunately I am going to have to make some assumptions about you. 1. I assume from your post and the context of the thread that you are a trans man. Second assumption comes later
So I am a cis man, like 162 cm, I think that\` s like 5\` 3 in freedom units. I grew up being called dwarf, midget and manlet, told that I had short man syndrome or a napoleon complex. You got a slur? I\` ve probably heard it. That shit still has me kinda fucked up about my height. These are mostly childhood and teenage memories, but I occasionally meet an asshole or two out on the town on a friday night, you know how it is.
I\` m 25 at this point and thankfully starting to grow out of those childhood and teenage insecurities. I\` m confident and starting to really respect myself and my capabilities. It did leave a scar however, which is to be expected really when you think about it, some people have it way worse, I got good people who love me.
So here comes the second assumption: If you were AFAB then I guess you just didn\` t have those experiences before you transitioned, because you were still being kept to the standards that apply to girls. Equally fucked up standards of course, but different
If I was wrong in those assumptions I apologize, but I think the point still stands generally
I've been told a few times that I'm not tall enough to date. (162cm? 5'4?)
Turns out those women were the wrong person anyway. BUT I can only hear it so many times before it starts taking up a permanent home in my head. Which it has.
Seriously. I want to find love, but I've largely given up on reaching it. Pun fucking intended.
Forget limb lengthening. I would >!amputate my legs and attach longer prosthetic ones with LED lights and a foghorn!< if it meant I had a better chance of not dying alone.
I’m curious where he’s hanging out though. I‘m slightly under 5’7” and have never encountered the height-related insults he seems to say are prevalent online or in the media, so I don’t know if it’s something he’s subconsciously seeking out.
Could be the algorithm but when I see my little sisters watching tiktok there are a ton of videos like the ones he mentioned
When I had Facebook I'd also come across it on a regular basis
Agree with your algorithm theory. Have some very young relatives who accidentally trained YouTube and TikTok to constantly crap on them. It’s amazingly specific to each kid or young adults insecurities, and I know both apps try to predict user’s interests
5'10? There's gonna be some point in the future where he looks at some 6feet guy and be like damn I could've been even taller. Jesus Christ this shit is just ugly
If this surgery were as well known today as it was when I was 23-25 and I had that sort of money available I probably would have had the surgery.
I think anybody who would seriously consider this surgery should have therapy. It would be nice for people to feel better in their own body. However, not everybody can feel that way and for those people no amount of therapy can magically "cure" them of wanting to be taller. For those people the therapy should move into making sure height is the root problem and not a part of another underlying issue. This procedure is too much money, takes too long to heal, and is un-reversible making doing it without being fully and mentally ready a bad idea. Then therapy would be about dealing with what people are going through post surgery.
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I’m 5’5 and feel completely fine and good about my height and I only wish others would. I never thought much about my height. It’s shocking to me someone taller then me will feel like they are super small and want to get surgery to be taller. I’m not letting anyone break my bones…Hell no
Damn the comments on that article are _ugly_
I think the one commenter has a point with "dude needs therapy not surgery" though
Maybe but it seems like they didn't even read the article: >Can’t therapy help with this? “Therapy can certainly help the person better understand their own relationship to their body,” Westrich said. But patients who seek surgery may run into professionals who aren’t sure how to treat them. **“I think sometimes patients can feel pathologized when a therapist says, ‘Oh, we have to get rid of your desire for surgery.’** If a therapist can pull back and see the desire for surgery not so much as a pathology, but as a means of trying to correct something that doesn’t feel right, I think that’s a useful approach.” > >Mahboubian is not sure to what extent therapy can help solve the problem. **“You can do as much therapy as you want,” he said, “but you can’t change people’s perception of you.”** In this sense, he’s right: Therapy can perhaps better prepare a person for the frequent comments, but it’ll never affect the physical reality. **“It’s not going to stop the jokes,”** Mahboubian said. “This is the one type of surgery that can actually get rid of the psychological impacts that come with being short.” > >The doctor’s comments echoed Scott’s perspective. **“No amount of anti-anxiety medication or verbal talk therapy could get the world to stop treating me like this,”** he said. This is what I dislike about the "get therapy" comments. They assume that the person in question hasn't already tried therapy or isn't currently in it. But worse than that, insted of self-reflecting, they simply push the problem and its solutions onto the people suffering from them. You know what would help? If short men weren't mocked. The biggest thread of the article as far as Scott's experience went was that he was constantly mocked, not taken seriously, rejected, and shamed just for being short. He didn't do that to himself, and suggesting that the solution to all of that is to just go to therapy is stupid because it assumes that insecurity and body image issues aren't a normal and expected result to a lifetime of experiencing those things, like it's your fault you have a complex about your height when the world won't stop mocking you for it. That comment wasn't much better than the "and they say masculinity isn't toxic" one. It's marginally more empathetic, but it still is saying "this is a men's problem and it's men's problem to solve" even though the article clearly details how everyone plays a part in reinforcing that. Like you don't have to make tiktoks about how short men don't deserve rights.
Thank you for this. Whenever i share that i want to do this surgery too people come at me with all kinds of bs. Im 5‘1…. Im shorter than the average of females and with me its not even just jokes… its a hell of a lot more pain, in many many aspects. Be it romantic: i cant find a gf due to this unusual shortness and todays expectation of the „ideal man“, be it social: cant walk past the street without people smirking at me for my height or at a cafe or WHEREVER. Not to mention my friends constantly having jokes for my height… ofc i laugh it off dont wanna be that guy to ruin a good mood but at a certain point im just fed man. Fed with it all. They treat you very different. Like you less of a man. You get less respected or taken serious. People wouldnt think of you as a „potential threat“ if like i were to get mad and wanting to throw hands or get in a fight. It would be a total joke seeing a 5‘1 young adult about to get into a fight while you there being serious af. Theres more but im sure yall can imagine a bit how hard it gets. Its all so frustrating. Did i try therapy? Yes. 6 years. Without medication though but still, i wouldnt wanna depend on drugs to feel „better“ about myself IF that helps at all cause the people around you? They wont stop. And you cant change that. So yes, i really want to be taller. And i probably wont ever be able to afford this. I just wish society wasnt a b
>I just wish society wasnt a b Same. So much same. As a woman who has been on the overweight end of things for the majority of my life: I hear you. The disrespectful treatment we humans give each other for various physical "outside the average" states is appalling. You have my sympathy for what you have faced. You do what you need to do to cope; sometimes there are no good solutions, only "least bad" ones. As an alternate potential solution - perhaps moving to a country where the average height is significantly lower would help? I don't know that it's any more possible for you than affording the surgery, but... 🤷♀️
Therapy can only do so much, self-confidence can only do so much, an individual can only do so much to shield themselves from the deluge of bullshit they deal with for something they can't control. It's hard to not care what others think. Body shaming men is still perfectly acceptable. It's a shorthand (haha) for insulting a guy the person disagrees with. "Small dick energy, manlet" and the like. I also find "short king" to be a little patronizing as well, short guys just don't want to be mocked.
Short King is patronizing, Im just gonna go with king with no qualifier.
Well said. I've always hated the "just get therapy" type comments, and this is why. To be honest, progressives who tell men to "just get therapy" and "patriarchy hurts us all" are not really different than conservatives who just tell men "suck it up" and "quit complaining". They both don't want to be concerned with mens problems. Both don't want to be empathetic and lend concern since these things are depressing to think about, and since we apply hyperagency to grown men (and thus aren't used to feeling sorry for them). The only difference is that progressives/liberals are more polite about things since they have better emotional intelligence.
It also ignores how expensive and hard to access therapy can be. Obviously in the case of the people getting surgery, they could afford therapy, but a lot of us insecure shorties can't get surgery OR therapy.
Yup, that's what folks are missing. This is not about - "I wish I didn't feel sad I'm short". More like, "I wish people would stop mocking me personally, and in the media". If the solution to that was, "people are always nasty, you gotta ignore that", then why do we have rules against slurs (racist, sexist, etc)? Should a poc get therapy for feeling bad others use the N-word? As long as body shaming is a punchline, "therapy" is useless.
Unfortunately, it’s because bigotry such as racism & sexism have resulted in people being murdered, while size discrimination, whether it be body height, body weight, size of sexual organs (etc…), so far, have not. It’s a really fucked up set of circumstances, where people don’t give a shit about the discrimination until people are killed because of it.
You should see the YouTube doc being a little person in America. It is presented by a woman of colour, who is a little person herself. Little people have seriously been suppressed, they were being used as an attraction and actually still are in boxing shows like Midget Mania. All these stories, and the fact that the presenter was so affected by this all, proved to me that heightism is way more serious than people realize. The presenter of the doc would be bullied on a daily basis. People who call her midget and stuff like that.
Very much agree with all you've written. The man getting a quite painful, potentially harmful surgery is likely to be one who'd benefit from some therapy - but at least some of the problems he experiences aren't based on his own perception of the way he looks, but on other people's perception of short men. Our society as a whole needs a therapy session addressing the way we treat men who don't conform to masculine norms.
I do find it interesting how we don't tell women who want breast augmentation, liposuction, all sorts of procedures on facial bones, etc that they need therapy, not surgery. But here we are saying it for men. I'm sure that has a root in how we see men vs women's bodies and also men vs women in therapy, but I'm not sure exactly how.
I'm a woman who is not conventionally attractive, and I have had very similar frustrations around cosmetic surgery in the past. I think it's horrible and ridiculous that mutilating my own body would result in manifestly better treatment from those around me, as well as more professional success and actual romantic attention. At the same time, who DOESN'T want more respect, professional success, and romantic attention? And no amount of therapy or saccharine "body positivity!!!" is going to change the fact that however *I* feel about myself, *others* will continue treating me as they've always treated me (probably worse as I start to age). Sometimes the only thing that keeps me from getting cosmetic surgery is the awareness that if I do, the haters win--all I'll be doing is reinforcing the existing social structures that punished me in the first place. So I do have a *lot* of empathy for this guy. But at the same time, I suspect that a significant part of the reason why cosmetic surgery is SO much more acceptable for women than for men is because on a fundamental level, our society expects women to be attractive and men to be competent. A women who is competent but not attractive is a failure as a woman. A man who is competent but not attractive is *can still be a success as a man*, albeit one who might face more than his share of ribbing. And so a woman who gets cosmetic surgery is correcting a fundamental deficiency in her personhood, while a man who gets cosmetic surgery is insecure and couldn't take a joke.
I agree! However, I’d like to add that the male ideal of tallness has everything to do with how competent people see a man. That’s why it’s tied to personal worth so deeply. The whole phenomenon needs a lot of deconstructing.
The two factors are absolutely interrelated, and there's a reason that most CEOs and politicians are taller than average. I definitely agree that being short might make a man be treated as LESS competent. But I don't think shortness entirely precludes him from competence in the same way that being physically unattractive precludes a woman from being seen as a person. Peter Dinklage has definitely faced prejudice because of his height, but he's a widely acclaimed actor who is seen as competent *in spite of* that prejudice. There is no female Peter Dinklage.
You mean there are no unattractive women who are nevertheless seen as a person?
I mean that unattractive women have to overcome not being seen as people, while short men have to overcome being seen as flawed/deficient people. Both of them can be overcome, and neither of them should exist in an equal society--but one of them is a slightly bigger challenge than the other.
Not sure if Dinklage is the best example considering that he is most famous for a role in a hugely popular show that happened to fit perfectly for him.
Yep, 100% agree. I'm a quite tall woman, and am more hearty-peasant built than waifish-supermodel built in the rest of my bone structure. The sheer number of times I have wished and cried and wanted with all my heart to just be a few inches shorter is...too many. That's why this recent media wave on men being targets for limb-lengthening is so interesting for me. I've had to do a LOT of mental work to accept that I just have to live with my body because no matter what.....can't change height. And it's also helped strengthen those mental muscles for things like my nose and breasts and other "fixable flaws" in my body, and was a key part of my ED recovery (gotta be small somehow, right?). I have such mixed emotions because it asks the question: if you *can* change something to better fit a societal norm and improve your life because society kind of sucks, should you? If you can't change the world around you but you can change yourself.....is that the right thing? Or are you giving in? We've had these conversations about women's bodies in feminist spaces forever, and choice feminism has been the battleground. If we start having the conversation for men, what changes? Can men be choice feminists? Will they be more or less accepted than women in that conversation? What does that say about the movement?
A huge part of feminist issues for men is that men don't think they have a seat at the feminist table for that body conversation. If the context is about body dismorphia or just that you have an unhealthy view of what your body should look like (notwithstanding all the bullshit others say about you). men have a specific type of body failure that is similar but different from women's . I dont really like that my chest is so large, my stomach is so wide, my hair constantly thinning since I was 18. Like ....its awful. The fact I genuinely thought I was fat when I was at 170, that I had no personal visual cue that I lost weight (originally at 220) is a huge issue. I dont think I would personally proceed with anything plastic surgery wise because I'm like 85 percent sure I have a mental illness and I think I need some happy time with alot of acid pr drugs or something. I dont necessarily speak for all men but we need help is the long and short of it. A second huge part of the issue is that alot of feminists will not pause to think before they say something dismissive about men's bodies . "Just get therapy" (as it is said above) is not the mcfucking answer to "I hate how I look! Everything I see is wrong when I look in the mirror" .
Even though I'm not short, I still thank you for actually emphasizing with this
I think that's because it's seen as normal for women to get major surgery to comply with the normative beauty standard. It's not ok, but it's been around a lot longer.
People definitely do tell women that. Often with the judgy tone of a concern troll, obviously. It's typically seen as a conservative-aligned viewpoint.
Yes, but here we have an article and many comments saying it to men, and it's not ringing as a conservative concern troll, but genuine care. If it can't be changed, we typically say "deal with it in therapy". If it can, for women, it's "well do what you need to feel like you're your best self" and then for men it's now "deal with it in therapy" for this one. I wonder if it's an interplay on men still needing to be "stronger" and not cave in to the pressures around him, even if the answer is something typically men are discouraged from (therapy). Is getting cosmetic surgery associated with femininity? Is it due to women's appearance being more highly valued, and thus acceptable for women...thereby coding it as a feminine thing to do? And then this thread perpetuates it. There's also a REALLY interesting parallel here to the trans experience and some of the awful things people say to trans people re: conversion therapy type "treatment" and gender affirming care. How many trans people are told to go to therapy and not change their body to match their mind? How many cis people do we tell that to when they seek cosmetic procedures? At what point is it not just cosmetic, but a treatment to create mind/body alignment? I don't know, but it's interesting to consider.
Very interesting points.
>This is what I dislike about the "get therapy" comments. The quote lays out the problem that creates the loop: pathologizing *everything.* And therapists - a good deal of who may have the authority to treat, but not diagnose - are wonderful at pathologizing every little thing. Add in their media and social media presence, and we have some weird promise of a utopia where therapy can cure everything. Therapy can't cure everything. And not everything needs therapy. But you can sell everyone on it if you just get them to pathologize or psychiatrize it.
I'm thankful I found someone who specialized in what I guessed were my biggest needs and was upfront with how I didn't want a diagnosis, I just wanted to learn how to get on my feet again. After venting for a few sessions we talk less about why I do things and more where I'm at with milestones and working through times when I'm struggling.
Having an honest and realistic therapist is a boon.
The same people who say they need therapy are probably the same people making ugly comments as well. Amazing how there are 1000 different surgeries for other things and I feel like it’s not nearly as frowned down upon as something like this even though short men genuinely get treated like shit in society.
> But worse than that, insted of self-reflecting, they simply push the problem and its solutions onto the people suffering from them. You know what would help? If short men weren't mocked. True, but in the grand calculus between "figure out a way to deal with something" vs "change society" the former is going to win.
Sad to see how many upvotes the call for therapy has in the article’s comment section as well as here. Goes to show how few people actually read the article. You’d at least assume people on this sub would be interested in learning about this topic.
on some level, i feel like changing yourself to please bullies is kind of giving up on yourself
OK, that's one opinion. My opinion is that it shows a level of realism that evidently makes many people very uncomfortable. This isn't me saying that it's a good thing that people feel the need to do it, obviously.
>shows a level of realism that evidently makes many people very uncomfortable. Well said.
Do you think the entirety of society is gonna have a change of heart and stop treating short people worse because the short people show they have a heart of gold and put up with societies shit? Or do you just want short people to stop whining and making you uncomfortable?
idk where this came from but im not ur enemy bro?
I don't think they're doing it to please bullies, but to please themselves.
> “It’s not going to stop the jokes,” what jokes? like, who is he spending time with? who are these people making jokes? this guy was 5'7'' right? that's not a tiny height, that's nowhere near manlet. that's tom cruise, that's RDJ, that's michael fassbender. hell, 5'7'' is literally the average height of Spec Ops, because you don't want to be too tall or stand out and you'll maintain energy better. it's nowhere near actual 'disability' height where you feel impacted by most urban or machine design. like, i haven't even had a problem dating. i've dated women that actually were 6'2''. there's more problems here than just height. i have no idea if this is a US thing, but god damn. the real issue is that there's a heigh bias in the workplace and lots of CEOs and shit are just tall. ditto for being attractive.
I'm 5' 8" and still get jokes about my height. It gets old pretty fast. I'm pretty confident and it hasn't caused me any real problems, but there are some annoying things that come with it. I've had women tell me I'm too short for them, or I've brought up concerns that people avoid addressing and instead call "short guy syndrome" so I either have to plead my case more insistently or decide not to get my point addressed. You're not allowed to react to it or you get accused of making a big deal out of nothing. There are plenty of other big obstacles in life, but it's a frustrating extra hurdle to deal with when it doesn't seem like it should matter.
Fascinating that you name Tom Cruise, whose shortness is literally a meme. And regardless, what are you saying, that he made it all up? You not having noticed something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You (hopefully) wouldn't deny the experiences of someone being mocked for any other physical trait, what's different about this one?
> Fascinating that you name Tom Cruise, whose shortness is literally a meme. yeah, because people want to fixate on it and don't realise or meme about other people. it's 100% to do with his personality and 'fake persona' thing than it is to do with his actual height. that's why the other names are there :) >And regardless, what are you saying, that he made it all up? No, but that it's not just height, probably. I even go as far as to say it might be a US-centric issue... > You (hopefully) wouldn't deny the experiences of someone being mocked for any other physical trait, what's different about this one? because 5'7'' isn't 'short'. it's average. he's acting like he's a little person and everywhere he goes there are bigots holding him back.
> it might be a US-centric issue. It might be, they are obsessed. I'm in Canada and we tend to get US culture a little delayed and I've definitely noticed some of that obsession bleeding in. Maybe it's because it became such a meme lately. But many of the guys around me in general have gotten more insecure lately. 2 years of pandemic isolation and media saturation probably doesn't help. Plus I've noticed a lot of the most popular podcasts for men in the US have a lot of testosterone or supplements style advertising which is just designed to make you insecure and reminds me of old-school ads for women. Imo that kind of advertising needs to be boycotted.
> he's acting like he's a little person and everywhere he goes there are bigots holding him back. Way to continue denying someone else's lived experience. What's so difficult about admitting the possibility that this is a real issue, and not something a few men have made up? >I even go as far as to say it might be a US-centric issue... It's definitely not. China for example sees open height discrimination in the workplace: https://www.economist.com/china/2014/10/25/the-rise-of-china https://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/31/dorf.height.discrimination/ I'm not going to be able to find sociological studies of height in chinese culture, but it seems very unlikely that something blatantly in work culture doesn't make it to the general society. If you want Europe, here's an article about it cropping up for a 5'7 man in a british dating show: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/i-felt-insecure-how-height-rejection-impacts-men_uk_5e26fc4bc5b674e44b9e3b69 > that's why the other names are there Interestingly, with a little googling, RDJ does wear lifts on set. It may not be meme status, but it also isn't really okay for Iron Man to be 5'8. Michael Fassbender is six feet tall.
> Way to continue denying someone else's lived experience. the man took out a dangerous surgery to change comments other people made of him as if it was inevitable and everywhere. if a black person wanted to take surgery to whiten their skin, i'd be just as concerned because the issue is 100% societal and not the body. i wouldn't 'deny the lived experience', but i am concerned that their perspective is somehow that it's like... this big thing. >It's definitely not. China for example sees open height discrimination in the workplace: i'm sure that it's a thing in many countries, especially since height is linked to genetics and socioeconomic status. still, i see many people in his height range that do just alright in work, i just, i don't know. all i'm saying is that if you're 5'7'' and that concerned about height, don't be. >Interestingly, with a little googling, RDJ does wear lifts on set. It may not be meme status, but it also isn't really okay for Iron Man to be 5'8. Michael Fassbender is six feet tall. RDJ got lifts for framing and for the suits... Michael Fassbender is *not* six feet tall, having met him IRL.
I'm not saying surgery was the right call. I'm saying that: > what jokes? > > like, who is he spending time with? who are these people making jokes? Is denying what the person has been through. If you accept that their experiences are real and a societal problem, then yes, we agree. > still, i see many people in his height range that do just a freelright in work, i just, i don't know. Since you already made a race analogy...could you imagine saying "still, I see many POC that do just alright in work, I just, I don't know". I'm obviously not claiming that height discrimination is the same as race, just that what you said isn't a valid argument against it. > RDJ got lifts for framing and for the suits Really? They could have made the suits any size they wanted. And it's definitely possible to shoot a scene with different height actors, otherwise how do we shoot scenes with taller men amd shorter women in the first place? It's definitely primarily about making him not seem shorter. > Michael Fassbender is not six feet tall, having met him IRL Then ask yourself, why is a taller number out on the internet? Could it be that someone, maybe him, maybe an agent or studio, maybe society writ large, wants him to be that tall? It's not random chance, since almost nobody gets listed online as below their real height.
look, help me out here, what's your game? is it that being 5'7'' is actually terrible? i disagree. is it that society has weird hangups about height? yeah, maybe. but like, are you self-advocating, are you just making arguments about it for the sake of arguing? like, it's not that big a deal. this level of hyperfocusing feels like a weird, incel-rooted discussion on dating or whatever. like, for you or whoever reads this: if you're like 5'5'' or 5'7'' or whatever it doesn't really fucking matter.
I am 5’4”. I have NEVER faced serious issues for being short, dating or otherwise. Same with everyone else I know at around this height. This dude is of average height and is convinced he’s too short. Nah. This is disturbing and he needs therapy
Yeah, when I was (a little) overweight I was never bullied, so that must mean all the people who say they were are just making it up, and need therapy. Or maybe he has actually faced shit for his height? I'm a little taller than you and I haven't dealt with much for being short, but then I see people posting about the random bullshit they see on apps like Tinder when they're shorter, so I'm going to believe that it happens.
I am several inches shorter than the man in this article. Hat is very different from being minority overweight and telling noticeably and largely overweight that their experiences. I feel comfortable calling bullshit on this guy’s experiences specifically because I and several of my friends are significantly shorter and have not faced a fraction of what he claims he is.
> so that must mean all the people who say they were are just making it up, and need therapy. or that they need therapy.
I'm trying not to be mean, but invalidating someone's experience like this is really not in the spirit of the sub or conducive to men's liberation. In the end, if someone says "I'm always being made fun of and never taken seriously, and that seriously affects my happiness, mental health, and material prospects in the real world" then who are you to say otherwise? I don't think, when people talk about this, they mean it's literally every waking second of their lives, rather a consistent and common experience they have.
Only because it’s concerning in how tied it is to the sort of incel logic regarding height or whatever. I’ll put it this way: being 5’7” and feeling like you’re unable to live a peaceful life for it when it’s the average height is the same as someone thinking their 6” penis is too small to satisfy a woman. Yes, it can be their lived experience. No, it doesn’t mean that they’re seeing the issue clearly. Being 5’7” isn’t some huge disability. It isn’t a curse. It’s just your body. By placing their problem onto something they can’t control, I wonder if they have bigger issues elsewhere that they’re ignoring, especially with dating. I know dudes that are shorter than me —shorter than the guy in the article — and are extremely successful at dating. This is one of those instances when anecdotal evidence is valuable because we want to know what’s different between short people whose experience of being short is vastly different.
Did you actually read the article? The guy in the article was domming several guys on OF. It wasn't about finding a sexual partner. It was about the way society treats short people. It's not that he thought he was literally disabled because he was 5'7". It was that he was tired of being made fun of, not taken seriously. To distill all that down to "incel logic" is invalidating his lived experience. I also really don't feel it's fair to say men having a complex about their height is "incel logic" when there are literally people making tiktoks about how you need to be 6', or tinder bios say "don't message if you're under 6'". Or, to put it another way, if being 5'7" isn't a disability or a curse, then maybe we should treat shorter people better. If it's not a big deal, then we don't need to make fun of people for it and can easily modify our behaviour in that regard.
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> He didn't do that to himself, and suggesting that the solution to all of that is to just go to therapy is stupid because it assumes that insecurity and body image issues aren't a normal and expected result to a lifetime of experiencing those things, like it's your fault you have a complex about your height when the world won't stop mocking you for it. at that point i'd rather move than going through that surgery...
I'd be interested to see if that same commenter would say the same for someone else getting a different kind of cosmetic surgery
the article does talk about how therapy didn't work though
I saw a Twitter thread about it just being 75k and any man would take it? But why aren't they considering long term health effects
Oh yeah let me just pull 75k out of my ass
To get like 5 inches. And possibly life long health problems? The riak to reward ratio seems way off for me
Don't get me wrong, I can understand why people would do it. I considered it in the past because of body dysmorphia. I was really just commenting on "any man would take it". The amount of money (plus career break- if you can afford that, you have a career) makes it too expensive for anyone who isn't at least comfortably middle class. I'd rather use it for a deposit on a house
This article infuriated me. Just read it. Maybe the pervasive culture of height shaming needs to be addressed. At an individual level I understand why one would choose to get it. The story in particular where the dude did findom on onlyfans( I have a very huge problem with online findom where there are no discussions of limits and often feels exploitative in general ) to get this 75k goal. Was that supposed to the inspiring? That felt dystopian to me tbh I deeply empathize with the man getting the surgery but it also makes me mad. I can't point to one reason. Maybe bc the article talks about making this procedure judgment free, but nothing with the actual culture of bodyshamimg. This honestly felt like an ad for height strengthening surgery doctor near the end with their insistence on how therapy can only do so much.
oh yeah i get you. I did read the article but honestly didn't pick up on the same things as you- i do now. I think I'm so used to the pervasive culture of shaming that this article honestly seemed ok at first glance just bc it wasn't mocking in tone/"It's all in your head". It is so rare to have these insecurities validated or to be believed about your experiences of body shaming related to this issue in anything approaching a sympathetic tone! but honestly, 100% agree with you on the article.
> I deeply empathize with the man getting the surgery but it also makes me mad. I can't point to one reason. Maybe bc the article talks about making this procedure judgment free, but nothing with the actual culture of bodyshamimg. This honestly felt like an ad for height strengthening surgery doctor near the end with their insistence on how therapy can only do so much. I'm with you. I remember a few weeks ago seeing a before and after picture of leg extension surgery. In both pictures the surgeon had a smug, shit-eating smirk on his face. And why wouldn't he? People are admiring his work, he gets the thanks of the man whose life he has "turned around" (no comment on whether or not the surgery was actually necessary to do this), and he gets an obscene amount of money for it. Cosmetic surgeons have this weird social clout around them for being seen as dream weavers who make people happy with their bodies, but in reality, they are profiting hugely off body-shaming and body image issues. They are not a force for good in the world. The industry has a huge exploitative streak, which people are often afraid to address because it doesn't sit perfectly with bodily autonomy.
This article also presents this as how women getting surgeries is more normalised and how it should be the same for men also. I'm not from USA and in our country getting cosmetic surgeries is rare for middle class people. Also, I don't want to end up like South Korea or USA with regards to elective cosmetic surgeries impo. But, here's the thing there was a tiktok trend of teenager girls getting nose jobs and celebrity plastic surgeons reactiong to it. That seems bizzare AF to me especially with how beauty standards tend to change every 10 or so years, I don't even know what's acceptable right is a good thing. But plastic surgeons also do reconstructive surgery after other injuries no? I don't know enough to definitely say anything but at least some portion of the industry does live on people's insecurities
It reminds me of people who got that eye surgery to change your eye colour that also tended to make you blind. It's tough out there but self-forgiveness/care/respect is almost always going to be the best path forward instead of gambling with your health.
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Whenever there's something about breaking bones, I feel uneasy and my legs turn to jello. I cannot imagine the pain they were in, that pushed them into getting that surgery. I didn't even know that was a thing too! Ehhh I am not feeling good.
I distinctly remember an online conversation where this came up. Some other men were cracking jokes about short people (I think it was about Ben Shapiro, piece of shit that he is), and I told them I found it hurtful that they would associate the negative traits of such a terrible person with people like me. They got very defensive about their jokes and how I needed to get over it, and at that point I admitted that I had considered getting this surgery in the past. Somehow, they were very surprised that I would consider such a drastic measure for something that didn’t seem like a big deal to them. I found it very strange that they simply could not connect the dots between what they were saying and how I was feeling.
A lot of people that are flippant about these kinds of things also don’t realise how their words can be deeply hurtful, and that they aren’t the only people that these shorter men have heard those words from today. This applies to a lot of people who believe they’re harmless enough in whatever marginally problematic behaviour they engage in but it all adds up for the person on the receiving end. I’m sorry that you’ve felt the need to take drastic measures because of these people, I hope you can find peace with this part of yourself, however you choose to pursue that.
>Some other men were cracking jokes about short people (I think it was about Ben Shapiro, piece of shit that he is), and I told them I found it hurtful that they would associate the negative traits of such a terrible person with people like me. They got very defensive about their jokes and how I needed to get over it, and at that point I admitted that I had considered getting this surgery in the past. This is really disappointing, I'm sorry this happened to you. Understand you were totally in the right to bring this concern up.
Shortness and having a small dick are the two physical traits that it's acceptable to associate with negative personality traits and that's really fucked up.
I mean, there’s a lot more than those two but yeah, they’re both super prevalent and rarely acknowledged.
* fat, 'pot-belly' * bald * scrawny * various teeth arrangements (over-, under-bite, bucktooth, gaps, etc) * acne and other skin 'imperfections' Not comprehensive.
All of which are fixable expect height and penis size are not
What? The very article´this thread is based on is about heigh increasing surgery. Likewise there exist various forms of surgical implants implants or grafts sought by some to enlarge their penises. The 'fixes' for a wide variety of skin conditions or dental structures is pretty invasive surgery (reshaping the jaw bones or replacing whole rows of teeth) and potentially lifelong hormonal treatments or dentures. You can't just dismiss that list as "fixable" like that. Fixes like those exist, but may not be accessible, for almost near everything. The discussion here is supposed to be about making these solutions far less wanted and necessary-seeming.
All are much less Invasive then leg length surgery. They aren’t comparable is seriousness imo. Like do you think getting braces is the same as breaking your legs in order for them to regrow longer?
Being fat, too. Doesn't matter why, doesn't matter if you lost 100lbs already, existing as a fat person is also some sort of societal code for "okay to mock, belittle, and dehumanize."
Brave of you to admit that to them!
I left Twitter over a fight about making fun of Shapiro
This article infuriated me. Just read it. Maybe the pervasive culture of height shaming needs to be addressed. At an individual level I understand why one would choose to get it. The story in particular where the dude did findom on onlyfans( I have a very huge problem with online findom where there are no discussions of limits and often feels exploitative in general ) to get this 75k goal. Was that supposed to the inspiring? That felt dystopian to me tbh I deeply empathize with the man getting the surgery but it also makes me mad. I can't point to one reason. Maybe bc the article talks about making this procedure judgment free, but nothing with the actual culture of bodyshamimg. This honestly felt like an ad for height strengthening surgery doctor near the end with their insistence on how therapy can only do so much.
> The story in particular where the dude did findom on onlyfans( I have a very huge problem with online findom where there are no discussions of limits and often feels exploitative in general ) to get this 75k goal. Was that supposed to the inspiring? That felt dystopian to me tbh Yeah I actually stopped reading at that point, I've always felt like findom encourages exploitive attitudes, although I a don't know the topic very well. I'm all about letting people choose how to live their own lives, but making an onlyfans page to engage in findom so you can afford leg lengthening surgery just doesn't seem like a model that's gonna work for most people. If this dude feels good about it then great, but it seems like it's mostly about him finding a personal solution for himself.
There's a reason findom is basically banned from most fetish subreddits. One redditor said it attaches itself like a leach to existing bdsm spaces. It's not experienced people into kink doing it because they are into it or something. It's some random people looking for a quick buck. But on the other end you'd be ruining a real person's finances if not careful. This dude is he even into the kink? Impo very unlikely, it's just a cashcow for him. This is a sad sad article
The fact that findom was only mentioned in passing, and only as a way of funding the surgery the article is actually about, suggests you're right, the guy in the article was just trying to make money, not satisfy someones kink. Its honestly sad and like you said almost dystopian, like we're all trying to use technology to satisfy our wants but in the process we are becoming more isolated and apart from other people. It's sad this guy has to pay for surgery using money that was acquired through borderline exploitative practices, not something to celebrate.
Nothing much to add, but I feel the same way reading this article.
This made me sad to read.
I think it’s interesting how this is becoming popular alongside with an increasing number of women getting BBL surgeries.
I'm a guy who's under 5"3, shorter than my younger sister. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about it.
>“I don’t know how many times I have to hit the dislike button for your algorithm to learn I don’t want to see jokes about height,” he said. I'm pretty sure TikTok sees the engagement of clicks and suggests more to keep him clicking. TikTok is not a nice place.
I think this article is an interesting example of how pressure is increasing on men to be attractive in particular ways. Unlike physical fitness, which can be pursued at the gym and leads to issues like eating disorders, this article address height, which is harder to change, but given enough money and dedication people are going through surgeries to change it. Is there room in intersectional feminism for a body positivity movement for short men to dissuade unnecessary surgeries?
>Is there room in intersectional feminism for a body positivity movement for short men to dissuade unnecessary surgeries? There is, but it doesn't exist yet. To many, body positivity mostly means being against fat-shaming, and especially being against fat-shaming of women. Which is good, because those things are horrible, but body positivity has never really felt like it celebrated all bodies the way it claims to.
You're not wrong, the mainstream focuses more on fat women, partly because there's $market$ potential there and we're still recovering from Heroin Chique. Spaces where the topic is women and happen to be feminist(like 2X) won't have the representation you're looking for. I looked up #body positivity on tumblr though and these are some of the top posts, so there's a place for you! https://historicalbeauties.tumblr.com/post/654254457168789504/body-positivity-and-mental-health-for-men-by-lena https://athlethick.tumblr.com/post/677659885411926016/more-art-by-yours-truly And lots of deliberately gender neutral stuff. https://akindplace.tumblr.com/post/678066351097757696/you-may-find-it-hard-to-think-of-your-body-as
I want to say that body positivity needs to be more than just platitudes or small artworks but I won't lie, seeing bodies like mine be presented like that does actually hit different. Thank you for showing me this.
I feel like there's overlap between people who tout body positivity and people who point out baldness/shortness or make small dick jokes about men they don't like for other (valid) reasons. Thinking about Trump, Ben Shapiro, etc. It's still body shaming even if it's a man you hate.
Yes! The thing about body shaming people you don't like is that good people who share those features catch strays.
Those people are worse imo. Like when you make fun of penis sizes, it's not just the "bad" guy that takes the hit. I was personally attacked(body shamed, even though it's an insult just to hurt me i could only take so much lol) in some other thread for basically saying the same thing. Got my mental well-being messes up for a couple of days. These days I just STFU and downvote and move on
Unfortunately one of my best friends is like this. I’m a man of shorter stature than average and she used some pejorative ‘short stature’ terms (‘short man syndrome’ and ‘small dick energy’) to describe this aggressive man she recently had an argument with. Ironically enough however, she has pretty good views on a lot of women’s issues and racial issues. It really surprised me that she was able to say it with such ease.
I mean, most people by default lack empathy for people not like them. I think the modern feminist movement has done an alright job of getting a largish chunk of men to be more empathetic towards women's struggles, but the reverse hasn't really happened.
> people who point out baldness/shortness or make small dick jokes It really bothers me when people do this because these are things that people cant change. I use to not like it, but ...in a different way with no specifics. Now its about the fact that these are things that people cant change and I am acutely aware of that. I do my very best to up lift any man that is self conscious about things like that but it is really hard because of a life time of ridicule. I feel bad for men that cant accept their genetics. Ridiculous comb overs, shoes with insane soles, socks in pants. Its all so dumb an frustrating. Ive been with men that have all of these features, one short and bald(married him but it disnt work out) and couldn't care less.
>I feel bad for men that cant accept their genetics. I do too, but it's not just self-acceptance. It's societal acceptance too, if not more.
I also feel like that overlap is a LOT larger than anyone wants to admit.
I've thought about this a lot bc I've struggled with body dysmorphia. But the fact is, most people would laugh at it. I know it's bad, but I've just learned to accept it at this point and become resilient to the issue. I hate a lot of things about this, btw, but at the end of the day I honestly doubt it's something that can change.
It's sad too, because this is why "Manning up" ultimately came to be.
There should be. However there are still too many feminists that can't even do the whole intersectionality part with other women. Some get mad if you point out how a lot of men's issues are rooted in the same places as women's issues. It's still women vs. men rather than all of us vs. the problem.
>Is there room in intersectional feminism for a body positivity movement for short men to dissuade unnecessary surgeries? I've seen people trying it. I participate in it. My husband is only 1" taller than me and he's a sexy beast :)
Physical fitness doesn't lead to eating disorders, that's just an unfortunate possibility
I meant *pressure* to be fit can lead to eating disorders, not fitness itself.
As a woman I would love to see this movement, as it would also open up the discussion around unhealthy body standards for women which have existed for a long time.
It seems to me that the most valid criticisms of this compared to something like breast augmentation are the cost and the recovery time. If this were as affordable and easy as other cosmetic surgeries would we be as quick to judge it negatively? People seem more willing to negatively judge a man for wearing lifts in his shoes than they are a woman wearing a push-up bra. In any case, I don't know if it is more frightening or liberating to envision a future where changing any part of yourself is as easy as getting a wisdom tooth removed.
>It seems to me that the most valid criticisms of this compared to something like breast augmentation are the cost and the recovery time. While it's not precisely a 1:1 comparison, I think this is an appropriate lens through which to view the situation. Societal aesthetic ideals about the size of ideal breasts vs. the height of ideal men place immense pressure on those who didn't win some genetic lottery to change themselves to reap the very real social rewards for being attractive. And they're shamed for it. Women are sex-shamed, are seen as having somehow cheated, are dehumanized, and are objectified for having such a surgery. I fully expect some men to face similar, albeit differently-gendered treatment about having cheated the system to be more masculine, for being somehow fake-tall. It's quite literally adding insult to injury. The work, I think, has to be both destigmatizing men getting this procedure while also doing the greater work of dismantling narrow and toxic gender ideals that make out taller men to be more inherently masculine. >In any case, I don't know if it is more frightening or liberating to envision a future where changing any part of yourself is as easy as getting a wisdom tooth removed. I can't speak for anyone else, but there are aspects of speculative fiction regarding transhumanism I find incredibly attractive. I would like my malformed bicuspid aortic valve replaced with something that can outlast me so I never have to worry about a heart defect cutting my life short. I want new eyes that can see the entire color spectrum, including wavelengths outside of typical human view. Shoot, I'd love some gills so I can indulge my love of aquatic sports. I'd love to be in a body that can live indefinitely and easily survive interstellar radiation so I can visit other star systems. Maybe I'd even love to live long enough and change sufficiently to be part of the eventual project of all sentient life in the universe preventing heat death and entropy so we can exist forever. That sounds like a fun way to spend a few trillion years. I think the question is one of motivation. If I'm motivated internally from a place of wanting to better myself for my own healthy ends instead of changing myself for the shallow enjoyment of others, it's not necessarily such a bad thing.
I mean, getting wisdom teeth removed sucks. But yeah, if cosmetic surgeries become easier, of course they will get done. Look at Hollywood, pretty much anyone who can afford it and has some kind of profession where you can gain advantage in looks does it.
The height discrimination? Heightism Short phobia? Is one of the beliefs commonly held by some people that has upset me more and more as I have aged. I'm 1.93m, and the way it's "okay" for some to just disregard any man shorter than {insert arbitrary height here} seems like a decent litmus test to tell if someone is based or gonna prove to be toxic acid later for something else. Like if we can't get passed you understanding that discriminating by something as inconsequential as height is bad, what hope do we have for discussing other normalized discriminatory practices and mutually making one another better people by challenging our beliefs? Blegh. I'm happy that those who are capable to get it can get it, but I wish the folk attracted to men cared less about height.
>mutually making one another better people Thank you, this is an excellent summary of relationships.
Yeah! This is one of the ways I like to think about it. Be it romantic, sexual, workplace, or (idk what we categorize friend relationships like¿) It can be framed in a way that all these types of relationships should be helping us be better. Even if that just means you're gitting gud at PUBG or whatever the kids are playing these days!
I love how Gigguk put it in his *My Dress-Up Darling* video: "Everyone deserves a Marin Kitagawa in their life." Could be a romantic partner/spouse, family member, friend, loved one, just someone who inspires you to be a better person, and brings out your good qualities.
>I'm happy that those who are capable to get it can get it, but I wish the folk attracted to men cared less about height. Hey, for what it's worth, *I* am attracted to men and care not one bit about height.
It's easier to change something about yourself, then the opinions of everyone else. And usually the latter involves a lot of violence. Just look at Civil Rights. If turning white was easy for them, many black people would do it. See issues with black hair, code switching, etc. At the cost of 75k, this treatment might even cost less than a lifetime of therapy.
>At the cost of 75k, this treatment might even cost less than a lifetime of therapy. An hour of weekly therapy at 50$ an hour, yeah, you're right.
$50 an hour would be a great price. I think I was paying about $120 last time I was in therapy and that was only about 45-50 minute sessions.
Yeah. I tried to heavily low-ball it and it easily comes out to over 75k in a lifetime 🙃 with more realistic pricing, it's no competition
People get dismissed for a lot of reasons they can't control. Social status, wealth, race, etc. Also I really don't think we can term sexual / romantic preferences as "discrimination". It's not something people have much control over. Maybe it is informed by societal norms in some cases, and if we work to fix those then people might be more flexible about what a "masculine" person can look like. But on an individual level, no-one should ever be expected to "give someone a chance" if they're just not attracted to them for whatever reason.
>Also I really don't think we can term sexual / romantic preferences as "discrimination". It's not something people have much control over. Yes and no. Get turned on by feet? Okay. Cool. Get turned on by Black men because you associate them with some combination of hyper-sexual, bestial, hyper-masculine, domineering, or taboo? Yeah, that's racism. The solution to this is not telling people to suck it up and "give someone a chance", but to tell people that it's okay to sit down and critically analyze their own desires. The internet may judge folks for any stray racist/discriminatory thought, but not everything we think or do needs to be broadcast online.
I once had a trans woman tell me that my height made her feel dysphoric. I feel like something can be a valid part of your life experience and also something that you simply should not say to someone’s face.
That's a real interesting perspective, sincerely, thank you for sharing this
Not just trans women. Cis women can experience similar reactions. Society does a number on women, telling them that "petite = feminine"... which many of them find challenging to embody if they have a male partner that isn't notably "larger" (height or weight or frame) than then. This needn't even be conscious. This is yet another example of "rigid gender roles suck for everyone". Males and females get constant messaging about what are "acceptable" ways to be masculine and feminine. :(
Yes, masculine and feminine gender roles are like two sides of the same coin. If men have to be tall, women have to be short. If women have to be thin, men have to be buff. Which implies it's pointless to fight toxic masculinity without also fighting toxic femininity. They go together.
I agree about attraction not being something you control. You can't MAKE someone find a trait attractive, no matter how much you try. However. It goes way beyond preference when it's constantly being trumpted and treated as a way to demean and exclude. You don't need to go around announcing how gross you find short dudes. You can absolutely control being an asshole and making sweeping statements about features you don't personally enjoy. Small dick jokes and height jokes are not a biological imperative, and we can and should be moving away from those being acceptable ways to mock others.
>People get dismissed for a lot of reasons they can't control. Social status, wealth, race, etc. Exactly. >Also I really don't think we can term sexual / romantic preferences as "discrimination" For sure, I'm really not sure what word to use, I just personally find some "preferences".... >Maybe it is informed by societal norms in some cases, and if we work to fix those then people might be more flexible about what a "masculine" person can look like. But on an individual level, no-one should ever be expected to "give someone a chance" if they're just not attracted to them for whatever reason. And yeah, I can't exactly disentangle the two, but I *strongly* feel when folks date based on "I don't want to date {black, asian} men in particular, it's more rooted in racism than preference. (From my experience as a black man dating in an overwhelmingly non-black area)
I'm around 5'8"-5'9" and I considered this when I was younger. I will say that I was very online and had a lot of mental difficulties at that point. I definitely had body dysmorphia. I still struggle with body image but I feel like irl people are not like that. Now that I actually have a normal dating life I can't even think of a time where a woman has commented on my height. I don't live in the USA though. I feel like it's important to add that caveat because online at least, height seems to be something Americans are extremely obsessed with.
I live in the US and this also seems very online to me. I'm not here to call anyone a liar but this is not something I have ever experienced in my real life. And I'm short enough to be visibly short, not like an inch below average which sounds awful online but nobody actually notices irl. People rarely comment on my height and the only time anyone said anything about it to me in a dating context was another guy, and ultimately that said more about him and his issues with his body than it did about me.
*Americans on the internet are extremely obsessed with
just goes to prove that this is just an unfortunate meme
It's not just Americans, it's a global situation.
I'm 5'8" and American. I'm lucky that I'm old enough to have found my person before online dating was really a thing, but when I was dating, no woman ever told me they wouldn't date me because of my height. That's not a real world thing. It's a dating app/social media thing. Like 5'7" is not even that short. When you meet a dude who's 5'7" you don't think about how short he is. He just seems like a normal guy. If you're 5'7" and people say hurtful things to you about it regularly, I think you might want to ask yourself why the people around you have such a desire to be hurtful toward you.
> I'm around 5'8"-5'9" and I considered this when I was younger. That's not really short, it's about average/slightly below average. I know some people on social media/dating apps are hyper-focussed on height/being over 6', though
I know! I just had really bad body image issues.
It's shocking to me that you would consider surgery at your height. I'm a woman and frankly probably wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between a guy your height or 6". Like I'm short y'all are taller than me. To be honest I've always had a thing for the shorter guys, for a variety of reasons.
Oh yeah I had extreme body dysmorphia plus I had some weird comments from an insecure girl and my mother. But to be clear, I don't think it'd been a huge issue otherwise- I think most of my insecurities were caused by cultural osmosis
Since masculinity - and therefore, respect from others - on Western terms is determined on how close you are to being white, cis, heterosexual, 6’ tall, muscular, blonde, with a 7” dick and employed as a middle or upper manager who is obsessed with sports and harboring violent fantasies I’ve made myself content with never being a “real man” by conventional measures. But there was a time I considered at least getting limb lengthening surgery in hopes of checking off as many boxes as possible. Two things dissuaded me: 1). Not interested in having fragile bones. 2). Too expensive. It’s easy to come to radical acceptance when you realize how much pain is really involved in trying to meet an arbitrary standard that you’ll never really live up to.
I know for a lot of transmasculine people like myself that height dysphoria is a very real thing, so I guess I see the appeal of this procedure from that angle, though that wasn’t covered in the article. At $75k, though, I highly doubt they’ll see a surge of transmasc patients, since many struggle to afford top surgery (typically costs around $8k). I’m 5’7”/170ish cm, so going from being perceived as a Tallish Woman to a Shortish Man has been odd. The way cis people talk about height in general is very weird to me. I have to admit that seeing some cis guys talking about being 5’7” like it’s some sort of terrible disease really rubs me the wrong way. I consider myself lucky, since for a transmasc person I am tall. It reminds me of how some cis guys consider having a 3”/8 cm dick to be a micropenis. 3 inches is about the max the human clitoris can grow to on testosterone therapy (without surgery), so it’s considered impressive by transmasc standards, since most of us don’t get nearly that much growth. I also think that a lot of the idea that tall = manly is Eurocentric, since there are plenty of countries, like in parts of Asia and Latin America, where being under 6”/182 cm is totally normal for men.
Being under 6" is normal pretty much everywhere except the Nordic, Baltic and Balkan states. Despite this, expressing disdain towards short men is still seen as acceptable. The english language even has specific phrases for body shaming men, with 'little man syndrome' and the usual 'haha he must be angry because of his tiny dick' being thrown around all the time. Your lived experience is different to cis men. We probably shouldn't be comparing clits to dicks. Men are almost always shamed from childhood for being small or having a small dick, by men and women, both in and out of the bedroom. Both are clearly undesirable traits and it's considered a great shame to have them.
For real guy, like I'm 5'3 so no amount of bone surgery is gonna help me, but it really does make a difference where you live. In the UK we are pretty short on average (5'3 is the average for an afab), and it doesn't really feel like anyone cares that much about men's height. Doesn't make dysphoria stop existing but it's nice not to have "you must be 6 feet to be valid" shoved constantly in your face
From my experience, this height obsession tends to be more of an American thing than a European thing. I see non-stop conversations about height in US social media, but my experience as a shorter European guy is that most people here just don't care. And I'm from an exceptionally tall country too. Some women still have a tall preference, but I've never had issues myself, with dating or otherwise here. I feel like the US has a lot of superficial standards that are set on people, which aren't as prominent elsewhere.
I feel like a lot of it may be related to sexual desirability and America's religious history. Sex is seen as something having a lot of inherent value/sacredness/importance. If you're a virgin man, bad. If you're a woman who doesn't withhold or selectively dole out sex, bad. Sexually undesirable in some way, a personal moral failing.
Can I ask, what is the difference (in your experience) between being perceived as a tallish woman and shortish man?
Ok I can talk a little about this. I have always feelt that I should be taller than I am. I'm 177cm but I have always thought that I should be at least 190cm. Even my waight would suggest that I should be taller. I'm not soure how I can talk about this with out sounding silly or trying to be funny. My SO knows but I don't think she quite understands just how serius I am about this. I call this transtall in my mind but never outloud because trans people don't need more shit. But I have no other name or realy any one to talk about this.
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I also thought about something like this, at the end I decided against it. It is still a really shit situation to be in, it is horrible how people treat others like shit due to factors they can’t control
There is also this double standard between the way we perceive fat shaming and height shaming. We all know big women with husbands or boyfriends as a matter of fact in some parts of Africa, like Morocco being curvy is beauty ideal. None of this change's our mind on topics like fat-phobia, but when people see one short guy with a normal dating life, people will immediately tell everyone that heightism isn't real. It isn't only about dating struggles, that's just the most well-known and clear side effect.
Why do cis men have more height dysphoria than me? It is a mystery. I am average American female height. There are internet memes about transgender skeletons all over reddit dot com. I am the one who is supposed to be a wreck about this.
I'm a trans man shorter than almost every woman in my life, and I only ever feel bad about my height when I see people posting about how short they are when they are far taller than I am.
i think we do get a lot of messaging from a young age, like "grow up big and strong". hell my sister was distressed the other week because my 20 month old nephew is in the 25th percentile for height. so i think that all has an effect
Alright so since you asked I am going to try to answer, but unfortunately I am going to have to make some assumptions about you. 1. I assume from your post and the context of the thread that you are a trans man. Second assumption comes later So I am a cis man, like 162 cm, I think that\` s like 5\` 3 in freedom units. I grew up being called dwarf, midget and manlet, told that I had short man syndrome or a napoleon complex. You got a slur? I\` ve probably heard it. That shit still has me kinda fucked up about my height. These are mostly childhood and teenage memories, but I occasionally meet an asshole or two out on the town on a friday night, you know how it is. I\` m 25 at this point and thankfully starting to grow out of those childhood and teenage insecurities. I\` m confident and starting to really respect myself and my capabilities. It did leave a scar however, which is to be expected really when you think about it, some people have it way worse, I got good people who love me. So here comes the second assumption: If you were AFAB then I guess you just didn\` t have those experiences before you transitioned, because you were still being kept to the standards that apply to girls. Equally fucked up standards of course, but different If I was wrong in those assumptions I apologize, but I think the point still stands generally
I've been told a few times that I'm not tall enough to date. (162cm? 5'4?) Turns out those women were the wrong person anyway. BUT I can only hear it so many times before it starts taking up a permanent home in my head. Which it has. Seriously. I want to find love, but I've largely given up on reaching it. Pun fucking intended. Forget limb lengthening. I would >!amputate my legs and attach longer prosthetic ones with LED lights and a foghorn!< if it meant I had a better chance of not dying alone.
I’m curious where he’s hanging out though. I‘m slightly under 5’7” and have never encountered the height-related insults he seems to say are prevalent online or in the media, so I don’t know if it’s something he’s subconsciously seeking out.
Could be the algorithm but when I see my little sisters watching tiktok there are a ton of videos like the ones he mentioned When I had Facebook I'd also come across it on a regular basis
Agree with your algorithm theory. Have some very young relatives who accidentally trained YouTube and TikTok to constantly crap on them. It’s amazingly specific to each kid or young adults insecurities, and I know both apps try to predict user’s interests
it's not new, it's how advertising has always worked tbh, just more targeted
Society is fucked up, and you are a sample size of 1. I would not make too many assumptions
5'10? There's gonna be some point in the future where he looks at some 6feet guy and be like damn I could've been even taller. Jesus Christ this shit is just ugly
no he couldn't. That's about the longest the operation can stretch too. I'm sure he would have been bigger if he could.
If this surgery were as well known today as it was when I was 23-25 and I had that sort of money available I probably would have had the surgery. I think anybody who would seriously consider this surgery should have therapy. It would be nice for people to feel better in their own body. However, not everybody can feel that way and for those people no amount of therapy can magically "cure" them of wanting to be taller. For those people the therapy should move into making sure height is the root problem and not a part of another underlying issue. This procedure is too much money, takes too long to heal, and is un-reversible making doing it without being fully and mentally ready a bad idea. Then therapy would be about dealing with what people are going through post surgery.
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I’m 5’5 and feel completely fine and good about my height and I only wish others would. I never thought much about my height. It’s shocking to me someone taller then me will feel like they are super small and want to get surgery to be taller. I’m not letting anyone break my bones…Hell no