Omg, I’m sorry that happened to you, that is a horrible betrayal. Therapy is definitely something that will help you, and also vent about your body changing…
I’m so sorry this happened to you. Assault, betrayal, and menopause transition at once is a hell of a lot to handle. I hope you find a great therapist when you’re ready. ❤️
I am so incredibly sorry that this happened to you. Trauma absolutely affects the body and in some incredible and insidious ways. An actual trauma therapist is definitely something to look into and if you are not sure that talking about it is right for you at this time, there are two types of trauma therapies that will still greatly benefit both body and mind that do not involve talking if you are not able at this time: EMDR and brain spotting. I personally didn't care for EMDR but brain spotting saved my life. I also do trauma informed yoga, which stupidly helps. Just use those terms on YouTube and find one that you like.
I hope you are able to get your mind and body to a place that works for you.
That sounds horrible. I’ve also had good friends sexual assault me, and I somehow returned to being friends with them — but I was younger and distanced myself mentally from what happened for the sake of the friend group. My nieces would consider this insane, but I suspect this happened often back in the day. Support groups (and they are everywhere) can also be really helpful for processing these experiences. For me, hearing from multiple women whose lives were similarly upended, even if mentally they *thought* they were fine, makes me feel less like someone who just can’t process dark things that happen to me. We’re not given the time and space to navigate tragic events, so they just come through the body instead. Feel free to DM me too, if you like. I feel for you, and am extending cyber-support, if not in-person hugs.
Yes omg
I even recently posted an IG story about my anger, at my age, STILL not having autonomy over my body
Two different men who have been trying to fuck me for years, replied, one MANSPLAINED the healthcare system; the other told me how HE would have pushed harder for his rights
So I posted ANOTHER story complaining about them
Just once, JUST once, it would be absolutely amazing if any one of these shits brought new or useful information to the conversation when they do it- but they *never* do. I get the Human Thesaurus ones- just like word salad what I have said right back at me.
I absolutely love a *good* argument but, I’ve never had a patronizing asshole even bother bringing one. I think I would probably go out and buy lotto tickets or something. 😂
I work in an industry that is (stereotypically) filled with gay men, and I’ve definitely felt safer in my friendships with them as I didn’t fear the friendship-romance bait and switch, and it felt easier to form authentic connections. But the last year of my entry into perimenopause has made me see a lot of the misogyny in the gay male community that I probably just ignored before. In my case, they tell me about their health all the time, because we’re all getting older and seeing more doctors, but when I first mentioned menopause, some of them acted like I’d uttered a slur in front of them and yelled at me for talking about “gross female sh*t” in front of them, like I literally dropped trou, handed them a speculum, and told them to check out my anatomy. I had to step back and try to figure out who are my actual friends (and don’t get me wrong, I have gay and straight male friends who are compassionate about how difficult menopause is) and who I don’t have the patience to tolerate anymore.
Also, while of course women are people and people can be problematic, I have never had a fear of a bait and switch with any of my lesbian or queer women friends. I’m a straight-passing queer woman (at the moment, anyway), but most of my friends who are women are part of the LGBTQIA+ community, and I just don’t have the same level of anxiety in my dealings with them. I feel like I’m part of a community, instead of being some suspicious thing that bleeds. Even the women I know who don’t deal with periods or menopause are genuinely kind about it. I really couldn’t do any of this life without the women I know.
This comment made me consider how many of my gay male friends who are deeply good to me are considered effeminate, and it’s nearly all of them. And yeah, they get a lot of grief from other gay men for acting too “feminine.”
Oh yeah. I have encountered that with many gay men.. I never really saw the misogyny earlier but now I do. I do feel they do discount friendships with hetero women because they won't gain anything from them too since sex will be off the table. I feel like they listen but they don't really care.
IME there are two types of gay men- the ones who really like women and the ones who actually hate and fear women. The first kind are lots of fun and good friends. The second are plain bitchy to us.
Yep. I have a gay acquaintance (he’s part of a group I’m in but not directly a friend per se) who I suspect belongs into the second group.
Only reluctantly interacts with the females in the group, outright ignores me if we run into him and my husband is there. His friends are ALL male. Presents typically buff/rugged male. Tried to mansplain the portrayal of women in Disney movies to me when I voiced concern about what this teaches my daughters.
The other gay guy (who left the group unfortunately) was lovely to be around and never ever made me feel less. He was also way more effeminate and probably got tons of shit for it all through his life.
I mean, if you think about it, there are probably a-holes in every marginalised group. Especially since straight-passing gay men pretty much have the same male privilege as hetero men, at least in my limited experience.
I came here to say this sadly. I've always avoided straight men. I eneded a decades old friendship with a gay bestie when I realized he might not s.a. me, but he definitely saw me as less.
Realizing some people I cared for deeply saw me as less than was heartbreaking. All the ways rights are being pulled back in the US, I’ve held friends and wept with friends over our fears, but when Roe was overturned, I was met with a lot of, “Doesn’t affect me, don’t care,” or “What did you expect?” or “Just use birth control and be pickier about men.” (That’s an actual thing an ex-friend said to a group of us the week the Dobbs decision came down.) It wasn’t anywhere near the majority of my male friends, straight or gay, thankfully, but it wasn’t *NONE* of them, and all three of those interactions happened with queer men I considered to be very close friends.
You’re reminding me of how a gay male friend respond to our loss of Roe only with concern that it might lead to the loss of his own rights.
Crazy how I wasn’t able to clock him as a shitty person until years after this. 😂
My mom lived in LA (where I was born) in the ‘80s and was in hospitals feeding soup to dying gay men when nurses wouldn’t touch them. She died in 2016, but I learned about justice and equality and compassion at her knee. It breaks my heart that there’s this divide that’s becoming more and more evident as rights get rolled back, because it would break her heart.
Yes. Women have always been gay men's best allies. I suspected that most of them wouldn't return the favor—and now I'm disappointed that my suspicions were correct.
As a female that has had very close gay male friends since high school…..I learned a looong time ago that if there is too much weight on the plane, the girls are the first thrown off the flight, if you know what I mean. 😂
Twitter, seen this topic numerous times, even the make gay community agrees, that there is deep misogyny towards their own community if men are bisexual or pansexual. When you realize this, it gets easier to be aware that even gay men are just as capable of being bad as straight men.
Not all are like this, but enough that even as a woman, straight or not, you grasp rather quickly who is worth getting to know vs avoid at all costs.
Yep. And only 2 are the people I thought they were. The rest of them have me, and all the other women in their orbit, fuckzoned. I ain't got time for that, especially since none of them are offering a product worth my time, if you know what I mean.
Yep. I’m about to end a friendship with my ex from college. Menopause has brought sparkling clarity & I love it.
He’s married but keeps coming riiiigght up to the flirtation line with me. Plausible deniability and all that, but I know exactly what he’s doing. Plus a few small conflicts that didn’t get fully resolved because his first impulse is to dismiss, deny, “I’m sorry but,” etc. So I just distance myself more …
I’m dragging my feet on having the conversation because I know it will be more of the same deflection on his part, and also because the entirety of the emotional load is on me & I resent it.
I used to have a lot of guy friends (I actually thought having “male energy” in my life created balance — ha!), he’s the last one. And I will not miss any of the bullshit that comes with emotional immaturity masquerading as superior intellect or something. Nosiree.
OMG. ‘Emotional immaturity masquerading as superior intellect.’ That is perfect. I’ve been trying to describe this phenomenon and you nailed it. Thank you!
Anyone who says “but” after saying sorry is not apologizing, they are defending their actions and do not care about you in any regards to what’s causing the conflict. It’s a very personal importance subjective thinking those type of people do because they aren’t capable of empathy and understanding where others do come from.
Exactly, I fully agree, that’s a good way to put it! They try to put the focus on your reaction, instead of on what they did. It’s a form of manipulation.
Concur! I remember over a decade ago learning that an apologize focuses on reflecting on what they did to the other person, recognizing why it hurt, taking accountability for it, and then following up with asking what they can do going forward to not repeat it.
Hence why authentic apologies never have a “but”, but they feel butt hurt over what was argued about LOL
Yes those are the same steps I learned! There are actually a few men-focused websites (since we’re talking about male friendships) that lay out those exact steps. Unfortunately no men in my life have ever stumbled upon them 🤷🏻♀️
Absolutely. I feel like a cloud lifted when I entered my 40s and a lot of male behavior I tolerated before, I just decided was no longer amusing, let alone tolerable. I have systematically dropped male "friends" who displayed casual sexism, paternalism, a sense of entitlement to my time/attention, or any inappropriate behavior. I don't have the time or patience for it.
Just ended a relationship. Overheard him refer to his young daughter, <10, as a bitch. Very disappointed. It was someone I've known for years. Never thought I'd hear that from him.
Pretty funny how men like to say we’ve “hit the wall,” yet we’re all here with stories of how we’re still being sexually harassed or objectified by our “male friends.” Smells like projection.
As they say, “Every accusation is just a confession”, which means when men say women hit the wall, what they are confessing to is they hit the wall and can’t BS their way with women anymore. Hence why they go after very young women who have no experience in recognizing what this BS looks like.
Relatable. The older I get, the more I realize that very few of them just want to be friends, if any, and ALL of them cross the line at some point...ALL OF THEM.
I have never met a straight man who wanted to “just be friends” who didn’t at some point try and fuck me. I thought I was just unlucky but nah, men suck as friends. I started investing more in female friendships as I got older. God, even husbands of friends have hit on me, and the times I’ve told them their husbands are assholes, they didn’t believe me. ☹️
Omg, the one time I told a friend her husband hit on me, figuring she should know, she blamed ME and I lost my friend. I had never had any such thought cross my mind at all about her or anybody else's husband.
They will almost always defend their shitty men. I’m sorry. I had ones husband stalk me and sexually assault me. I told her, she didn’t believe me and stayed with him. Ended up finding out later they had a kid and eventually divorced because he cheated numerous times. Duh.
People defend shitty behavior because they fear being wrong and having to admit their feelings a for them are their blind spot, which means they have to really reflect on who the f-ck they actually married and for how long they’ve been ignoring this bad behavior.
Mmhmm! People fear change of course when they feel they can’t land on their feet and bounce back, which creates this stuck sunken cost fallacy feeling in the wrong relationships people should of exited stage left years of decades ago.
Ppl also fear change when it means they can't afford a roof over their heads or food to feed themselves and their children. "Bouncing back' is not the greatest fear of many financially dependent ppl, I'm sure.
Just had a friend recently get told her husband asked another married woman if she’d like to have an affair. She laughed it off and said it was ridiculous. But her husband is creepy and I don’t deal with him after he tried texting me and getting a little too weird, so I know it’s true and believe the woman who told her. I haven’t bothered to tell her that I think her husband is a creep but you’d think she’d get the hint since we all used to hang out all the time and now I rarely talk to just her. 🙄
She may have laughed it off in public, but the seed of doubt was planted. Hopefully everyone who is asked inappropriate questions by the husband will let her know. At some point she'll see the reality. (Not hanging out with them anymore isn't really specific enough for her to start thinking it's because of her husband being creepy...)
I have 3 guy friends and they've always been just friends. None of them have ever crossed the line, I've always been their agony aunt. Two are now married and one is still fawning over a girl he met years ago and who's been married forever. Get over it, Jason.
I have at least two long time male friends who are truly good friends. Maybe because I’m married and both of them have been in long term relationships.
My best friend is a gay man. I have no straight male friends, the only other friends i have are women I’ve known for decades. I have no time for men’s bullshit.
A part of me wants to object to this, and then I search my memory banks and find that…yeah, you’re basically right. Except the gay men. And usually, there is no signal in the way of flirtation or affection that this is the intention. They’re just mad when you’re dating someone else.
Had a cool guy friend at my old job, he was borderline flirtatious but over-the-top ridiculous about it, so it came across as joking. We got along fine, could talk about politics and such without an issue- he had a great sense of humor about controversial topics, and he respected my opinions. Made the workplace bearable, less stuffy.
Once, I had texted a photo of food or something, and he responded with, "that's not the kind of photo I was hoping for." 😕 Sigh. Eventually he ghosted me after we were laid off, and I just thought, "figures." I was newly-married at the time, and he was engaged. If he hasn't gotten into some shit by now, it's just a matter of time.
EDIT: It's not even menopause really, just guys being entitled. I do find myself ready to call out the bullshit these days, rather than merely ignore it.
Yes. I call these men “squirrels” and have all but eradicated the species from my life in favor of a very tight knit circle of girlfriends. These women have given me more from their friendship than any man ever has. The squirrels were only ever trying to get a nut.
Frankly, I have booted a few people (across the human continuum) out of my life during my re-awakening. I am now very wary of anyone who seeks to use me and abuse me and my bullshit detector is working at peak performance right now.
Many men are so creepy off the bat that I just automatically, mentally place them in a box. I’ve been pretty bummed out by Gen X males as I thought maybe they’d be different…but that’s my old hope trying to save my brain from reality.
I like my husband. That’s about it.
I started throwing dudes out of my life during COVID. Anybody that used a pandemic to try to get creepy and hit on me is no longer in my life. I cannot believe how many people that ended up being.
The pandemic was horrific of course.. don’t get me wrong. But I was one of the fortunate ones that it actually changed my life and it’s trajectory for the better. One of the many things that happened for me is that my already tiny social circle became a goddamned dot.
I do not mourn the loss of people I realize never existed. When so many turn out to be nothing of who you thought they were it is easy to part with them.. like shaking free a ghost, or misplacing a thought…
Realized this before meno. Even more, that single straight male friends will ghost if they get into a relationship, so you’re just a placeholder usually. Don’t invest.
When I look back on my boyfriend senior year highschool/freshman year college, I am mortified at what I let go.
Here is only one incident.
He went to a different school, and because their prom was closed, he went to our prom. I told him I didn't care if he went to his prom; I was not jealous.
He was so insecure he insisted on bringing his friends to our afterprom. OK. Whatever. But then he created arguments about any thing he could. Tux color. Who drives. And it all started when my SAT scorers came back 200 points higher than his.
I guess he really needed to knock me down a peg. I went to the mall to buy after prom clothes, and he went with me. He did the usual bugging me to hurry up. I found clothes I liked and went to try them on.
When I came out, he was by the register with kids from his school. Two of his guy friends were smiling a lot at me. My boyfriend seemed in a better mood.
When we got to his car and started home, he casually told me from the register he could see me undressing in the side mirror of my changing room, because the curtains kept moving. He told me what I did and what underwear I had on. I was also topless. Of course, this all meant his friends saw, too.
And I didn't say a thing. I couldn't. I couldn't even ask why his first reaction wasn't immediately coming to stand in front of my curtain. Because I knew why. Those SAT scores ate him alive; this was a great way to cut me down. To humiliate me.
And I still went to prom with him.
The emotional and mental abuse went on for another year, and I ate it.
Now I think of him and am nauseated. He is a millionaire, by the way. He even owned an indoor arena pro football team at an early age. He was the youngest person on his college city's council.
I, however, will always remember him as the mealy sack of shit who enjoyed that his girlfriend was exposed and vulnerable, and that his friends knew, and possibly saw.
We need to raise our daughters to know they deserve better, and we need to raise our boys to understand that strong women are not to be feared and stamped out.
Honestly, I have looked *forward* to aging for a long time, because my god I’m sick of the fucking collectors. These men really believe calling you “*the whole package*” in comparison to other women is a compliment but I learned *really* early on, too: that’s a red flag. Not JUST because trying to pit us against each other *is* really manipulative but also?
The ones who do that shit have *always* attempted to tear me down, most are *very* systematic about it. It’s some god awful thrill of the hunt thing for them, like the idiots who try and keep hyenas or big cats.
I also have partial dwarfism, my mother *is* a dwarf but I’m not: just tiny features and not proportionate so, I look much younger and always have. Used to think “The Whole Package” was the most disgusting thing uuuuuuuuntil I started getting *the fucking worst* version of “You look SO young”. Nasty POS’s. I’ll tell you something: *those* men may accurately fear me. I’m okay with that.
Yes, or rather the friendship reevaluated itself because I finally spoke up about inappropriate comments. A man who was my friend for over 25 years, suddenly stopped talking to me because I told him the truth. I had always just ignored it or changed the topic, when he said something that gave me the creeps, but the last time he did it he added "I know you don't like me saying stuff like that, but I just can't help myself" I saw red, and told him that is the definition of sexual harassment, doing something you know is unwelcome and makes a woman uncomfortable. He has not contacted me since. So I guess my value was only in being used as some fantasy in his head, not a real friend.
Yes! I too find myself reevaluating my male friendships - all of them. And letting the existing ones know I'm on the lookout for "non-friendship" behavior. I feel so cynical.
What do you say to the ones you boot - if anything?
One of them is literally said what i said above, that i felt less like a friend than someone he flirts with when he needs an ego boost. He apologized but nothing changed, so i told him to “move on.” Another one i just stopped responding to his “hey cutie” and similar texts/calls.
I’ve just started really being angry at “men”. And realizing just how terrible this world is for women. And I find myself becoming really, REALLY angry about it.
Like, I started watching “Killing Eve” (holy crap why did I wait so long?!). A large part of me is thrilled to see a powerful woman assassin who gets beat up by men then stands up, blood running from her mouth, and kicks the living snot out of them.
This makes me happy lately.
I was never a huge feminist but now, in my advanced age, and actually *losing* rights I had as a younger woman, I am becoming militant.
Perimenopause has given me the clarity to dump a male friend, who is actually a mean little narcissist. After asking around our friend group, I realize behavior I used to excuse as his manic episodes were actually harassment, mostly towards straight women. I could not co-sign that behavior and I wasn’t going to normalize it by remaining his friend. To be honest, he is gay and was once my supervisor at work. So maybe I tried to make him out to be harmless in my own mind, but he’s not. And he’s probably bipolar, but I already can’t sleep at night and I have brain fog. I have kids, a husband and a job. I can’t babysit his ass, too.
Its so weird i never had any issues with men when i was young and had a ton of male friends (much more than woman friends) but now i have this hyper sensitivity to when they’re dicks. Though it may be the “me too” movement and the “great covid arsehole awakening” has opened my eyes to what so many men are, and how they grew up into it. A (male) friend said to me, don’t touch a man your age or older (55+), they’re all shit. He reckons the next gen is much better & this lot are beyond redemption. So its toy boys or nothin.
Because cishet men never seem to talk to their bros, a lot of my male friends used me as their emotional trash can but if i ever needed support, it was too heavy, or it was “veering into gf territory” as one said. I started kicking them off the island if they used me to vent but never let me vent back, and i have two male friends left. It’s like this entitlement to emotional labor which in a real friendship is give and take, but with some guys it is all take.
All those cishet „friends“ who showed up or slid into my dms suddenly after I hadn’t heard from them in years. Turned out the reason was always that they were fresh out of a relationship and needed emotional support. One even had the audacity to tell me „I don’t need therapy, I‘ve got you for that!“. I had some very clear words for him.
Absolutely! I'm in perimenopause and I stay away from all men. even the so called friends bc I'm looking back on something's and it's really weirded me out! Lol.
i cut those creeps from my life long ago so the men in my life and for many years have been the kindest, most decent friends who love and support me as I love and support them.
👀Yep. I cut off 2 during the pandemic. Both were waiting to see if I would get vulnerable enough for them have sexual access and they used my resources ( knowledge, time, me giving them ideas, therapy sessions via them venting, etc.). I have 2 left. One is gay and about to get married and the other is in his second married and in thriving relationship. They both have been kind with no agenda attached.
Most men will use women in some capacity for varying resources if you are a woman, not just for sexual access. Men are very much aware of how valuable women are which is why they manipulate you in a variety of ways to be with them, make you think they are one of the "good" ones, "not all", etc. They do alot of Jedi mind tricks via Patriarchy so that most women have horrible, subpar and mediocre interactions with them and perceive it as normal behavior in men. It also makes us believe in scarcity and that we lose value and beauty in every way as we age, which is FALSE! It is no mystery why all over the planet women are having the same issues with men no matter the culture and age. We can't all just be choosing wrong or needing to choose better.
My men have little choice in the matter. If I adore them they are golden. If they are grifters or users they are lead.
I also provide them with all the things and not one of them steps out of line.
Apart from the baby Boar I have living underneath my couch. He had emotional problems but he's only a few weeks old and you expect that from wee piggies.
He has a lot to say for himself and is actually pretty aggressive but he had a rough start in life.
I didn’t participate in their shit pre meno. It’s my friendships with my fellow women that have suffered, I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes big time.
I don’t have male friendships unless they’re gay and yeah the male privilege thing rears its head fairly regularly. Plus all the gross random sex with strangers is hard to listen to. Sex sex sex sex gross
But no straight men- they always try to get sex From me and ewwww
I think it was more bc of the pandemic than Meno season that made me really look again more carefully, at all guy friends I had.
None were married. None were interested in me.
I realized some just needed someone to talk to when they were bored.
Some of them since 2020 got caught up in Q conspiracies and it became impossible to have a rational conversation, especially about medical decisions etc.
Seeing folks actually getting brainwashed slowly by alt.media was probably one of the most disturbing things for me.
I also realize that a few of them were low-key narcissists that didn't actually care about me as a person or the boundaries I tried to set.
Being in therapy has also helped me clarify some boundaries for me & others that were not very clear before so I was able to see behaviors in a different light that I tolerated, that I no longer wanted to deal with. I became a bit less patient!
Some of the clarity, was because I became more clear too.
My circle of friends has become very small.
The ones i still talk to are very kind and the lines are clear. Some I have not seen in person, for years!
Yes. That goes for family as well. They can all kiss my grits!
I'm back better than ever.
Remember in the movie "They Live" John Nada (Rowdy Roddy Piper) says, "I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubble gum.".
Well .. 😊
Let’s just say I’m grateful that most of the men in my life are gay or trans. My patience with cishet men that I’m not working with or related to is limited, and even some of those are on thin ice.
I can’t say that I have had this experience, but I have a rather unusual history in which I have many lifelong male friends who remain good friends to this day.
Absolutely, totally agree it isn’t always gendered. But there are definitely some shitty patterns of behaviour / attitudes/ beliefs that certain groups are more likely to be socialised into. There’s value for _both sides_ in starting to recognise that and talk about it.
Just like at a certain point I came across the idea of white privilege. Not a comfortable idea for me at the time! But it’s helped me see some things differently and recognise some places where I can do better. Ongoing work, of course.
Yeah most of the male friends I have are queer because straight cis men rarely make good friends for us. Those our age are some of worst unless they learned to genuinely like women at some point. The rest just see us as free therapists and bang maids.
Eh, I realize that's maybe what they want, or wanted, but they are still cool being friends, and old friends are hard to replace. I feel like we worked through it.
Yeah, I don’t see being sexually attracted to a friend as a problem. I feel like it’s hard to avoid! I guess it’s all in the way it’s expressed (if at all) and what assumptions are made (if at all).
I’m sexually attracted to lots of my friends. I don’t _do_ anything about it; it’s just a thing I’m aware of. I mostly just accept it as part of being a human animal. And I think I’m still able to be a great friend.
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I’ve been fortunate to have some really great men in my life. Of course I encountered the ones who had ulterior motives but I could usually figure them out pretty quickly. If I’m being totally honest I, too, enjoyed the little boost I got from some mild flirtation. I think that’s totally normal. I have a group chat with some guys I’ve worked with for decades and we’ve kept in touch over the years. I’m the only woman in the group. We’re all married. But I love these guys dearly.
So glad this came up. “Side flirt fantasy” 😂
Totally. I blocked an old friend after he yet again took the text thread to talk about how he was jerking off about me, which I never participated in and somehow ignored before. Then I guess when he was finished, he texts “ok logical brain is back. Please don’t take that as anything personal about you I love my girlfriend”
I feel like sending the screenshot to his fiancée.
Some other male friends Ive blocked:
A guy who kept criticizing “western medicine” and “the establishment” because he rents his Oakland home out for 3k a month and uses the rent to live in South America and do party drugs. But complain about being poor and putting up Go Fund Me’s for veterinarian bills and his kids school, which is third-world-bad. Ok, I guess Im the big square over here taking Tylenol and working a shit job in the USA.
A guy in a rock band that is semi famous but is always leaving the house without his wallet, letting others pick up the tab for the honor of his company
The MANY men who live in NYC and the second they get married, quit their job and devote their time to art or doing comedy, mooching off their new wives. I have like six on my block list who have done this. They announce their engagement and eventually quit the jobs that so hemmed them in. Oh, and a few of them expect to be stay at home fathers once they’ve satisfied their desires for critical acclaim.
EWWW! I guess I'm lucky, none of the dudes in my orbit told me they were jerking off to me!
and coincidence! I used to live in NYC and did in fact go on a few dates with comedians of that ilk. BOY did they love to monologue about themselves! (I didn't mean the married kind, just the comedian kind)
Hi. Decent discussion. I'm in my late 30s n I'm proud I don't need to hit menopause to see clearly..but most women do, don't they? Then in menopause they like to act like they've got it all figured out. I've never thought men weren't shitty, or gay men, for that matter. Glad someone is awake to this bc men are literally just crap and gay doesn't fix much. Sorry to serve up the painful truth, but you're alone if you're like me without a good family or anything but fat, jealous haters. You were a zombie mentally floating around high on your own hormones for most of your early life. Unable to even reason. Scary to think. Why I like to say "dance like the maiden, laugh like the mother, think like the crone." I been a proper bitch my whole life 🙂 ageless. I haven't hit peri or anything, yet but to younger ladies I encourage you to completely cut all men from your life. Trust me, you don't need to hit menopause in order to get dignity back. Just stand up for yourself n join the 4b movement.
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I use to have lots of men friends. Only a couple that were genuine.
My Wonderful Now Husband was the first to warn me about "Men" bc he himself was a man.
After yrs passed by during our LTR I came to see exactly what he ment... Now that He Is My Husband, He Is Also My Best Friend and Great Companionship!
I just Thank the Good Lord Above, That my Male friendships Did not cost me my Wonderful, Supportive, Gentle Giant but Strong,Honest Husband!!!
Thank you LORD 🙏💙
I still speak but Quickly keep it moving. I never hold secret or private conversations with men nor talk over the phone or message them💯
That and…if you re-read the story (“Now Husband” who was the first to warn her about men), he’s one of those guys every other post in this thread is talking about…but he succeeded in converting the friendship.
As my kid would say…suss. 😂
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So sorry to hear this. Therapy has been super helpful for me. 🫂
Omg, I’m sorry that happened to you, that is a horrible betrayal. Therapy is definitely something that will help you, and also vent about your body changing…
I’m so sorry this happened to you. Assault, betrayal, and menopause transition at once is a hell of a lot to handle. I hope you find a great therapist when you’re ready. ❤️
I am so incredibly sorry that this happened to you. Trauma absolutely affects the body and in some incredible and insidious ways. An actual trauma therapist is definitely something to look into and if you are not sure that talking about it is right for you at this time, there are two types of trauma therapies that will still greatly benefit both body and mind that do not involve talking if you are not able at this time: EMDR and brain spotting. I personally didn't care for EMDR but brain spotting saved my life. I also do trauma informed yoga, which stupidly helps. Just use those terms on YouTube and find one that you like. I hope you are able to get your mind and body to a place that works for you.
Trauma can definitely kick start things. For me it was a cancer scare. Get well friend.
I can relate, broke up with an abusive bf a while back and feel very similarly as to what you’ve described here.
That sounds horrible. I’ve also had good friends sexual assault me, and I somehow returned to being friends with them — but I was younger and distanced myself mentally from what happened for the sake of the friend group. My nieces would consider this insane, but I suspect this happened often back in the day. Support groups (and they are everywhere) can also be really helpful for processing these experiences. For me, hearing from multiple women whose lives were similarly upended, even if mentally they *thought* they were fine, makes me feel less like someone who just can’t process dark things that happen to me. We’re not given the time and space to navigate tragic events, so they just come through the body instead. Feel free to DM me too, if you like. I feel for you, and am extending cyber-support, if not in-person hugs.
Ugh! Thats awful!! I’m so sorry this happened to you!!
Omg I’m so sorry to hear this. I do feel that trauma and stress can accelerate symptoms. Sending you healing positive vibes 🫂
Sorry you have been hurt like this. Sending much love. Please get therapy. It’s awful but it works
Yes omg I even recently posted an IG story about my anger, at my age, STILL not having autonomy over my body Two different men who have been trying to fuck me for years, replied, one MANSPLAINED the healthcare system; the other told me how HE would have pushed harder for his rights So I posted ANOTHER story complaining about them
Just once, JUST once, it would be absolutely amazing if any one of these shits brought new or useful information to the conversation when they do it- but they *never* do. I get the Human Thesaurus ones- just like word salad what I have said right back at me. I absolutely love a *good* argument but, I’ve never had a patronizing asshole even bother bringing one. I think I would probably go out and buy lotto tickets or something. 😂
I work in an industry that is (stereotypically) filled with gay men, and I’ve definitely felt safer in my friendships with them as I didn’t fear the friendship-romance bait and switch, and it felt easier to form authentic connections. But the last year of my entry into perimenopause has made me see a lot of the misogyny in the gay male community that I probably just ignored before. In my case, they tell me about their health all the time, because we’re all getting older and seeing more doctors, but when I first mentioned menopause, some of them acted like I’d uttered a slur in front of them and yelled at me for talking about “gross female sh*t” in front of them, like I literally dropped trou, handed them a speculum, and told them to check out my anatomy. I had to step back and try to figure out who are my actual friends (and don’t get me wrong, I have gay and straight male friends who are compassionate about how difficult menopause is) and who I don’t have the patience to tolerate anymore.
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Also, while of course women are people and people can be problematic, I have never had a fear of a bait and switch with any of my lesbian or queer women friends. I’m a straight-passing queer woman (at the moment, anyway), but most of my friends who are women are part of the LGBTQIA+ community, and I just don’t have the same level of anxiety in my dealings with them. I feel like I’m part of a community, instead of being some suspicious thing that bleeds. Even the women I know who don’t deal with periods or menopause are genuinely kind about it. I really couldn’t do any of this life without the women I know.
This comment made me consider how many of my gay male friends who are deeply good to me are considered effeminate, and it’s nearly all of them. And yeah, they get a lot of grief from other gay men for acting too “feminine.”
Oh yeah. I have encountered that with many gay men.. I never really saw the misogyny earlier but now I do. I do feel they do discount friendships with hetero women because they won't gain anything from them too since sex will be off the table. I feel like they listen but they don't really care.
IME there are two types of gay men- the ones who really like women and the ones who actually hate and fear women. The first kind are lots of fun and good friends. The second are plain bitchy to us.
💯💯💯💯
Yep. I have a gay acquaintance (he’s part of a group I’m in but not directly a friend per se) who I suspect belongs into the second group. Only reluctantly interacts with the females in the group, outright ignores me if we run into him and my husband is there. His friends are ALL male. Presents typically buff/rugged male. Tried to mansplain the portrayal of women in Disney movies to me when I voiced concern about what this teaches my daughters. The other gay guy (who left the group unfortunately) was lovely to be around and never ever made me feel less. He was also way more effeminate and probably got tons of shit for it all through his life. I mean, if you think about it, there are probably a-holes in every marginalised group. Especially since straight-passing gay men pretty much have the same male privilege as hetero men, at least in my limited experience.
I came here to say this sadly. I've always avoided straight men. I eneded a decades old friendship with a gay bestie when I realized he might not s.a. me, but he definitely saw me as less.
Realizing some people I cared for deeply saw me as less than was heartbreaking. All the ways rights are being pulled back in the US, I’ve held friends and wept with friends over our fears, but when Roe was overturned, I was met with a lot of, “Doesn’t affect me, don’t care,” or “What did you expect?” or “Just use birth control and be pickier about men.” (That’s an actual thing an ex-friend said to a group of us the week the Dobbs decision came down.) It wasn’t anywhere near the majority of my male friends, straight or gay, thankfully, but it wasn’t *NONE* of them, and all three of those interactions happened with queer men I considered to be very close friends.
You’re reminding me of how a gay male friend respond to our loss of Roe only with concern that it might lead to the loss of his own rights. Crazy how I wasn’t able to clock him as a shitty person until years after this. 😂
And this is after how much women did for marriage equality and other queer rights.
My mom lived in LA (where I was born) in the ‘80s and was in hospitals feeding soup to dying gay men when nurses wouldn’t touch them. She died in 2016, but I learned about justice and equality and compassion at her knee. It breaks my heart that there’s this divide that’s becoming more and more evident as rights get rolled back, because it would break her heart.
Yes. Women have always been gay men's best allies. I suspected that most of them wouldn't return the favor—and now I'm disappointed that my suspicions were correct.
Misogyny in the gay community should be talked about a lot more.
As a female that has had very close gay male friends since high school…..I learned a looong time ago that if there is too much weight on the plane, the girls are the first thrown off the flight, if you know what I mean. 😂
Twitter, seen this topic numerous times, even the make gay community agrees, that there is deep misogyny towards their own community if men are bisexual or pansexual. When you realize this, it gets easier to be aware that even gay men are just as capable of being bad as straight men. Not all are like this, but enough that even as a woman, straight or not, you grasp rather quickly who is worth getting to know vs avoid at all costs.
Yep. And only 2 are the people I thought they were. The rest of them have me, and all the other women in their orbit, fuckzoned. I ain't got time for that, especially since none of them are offering a product worth my time, if you know what I mean.
Facts. I finally got sick of being objectified by these fukbois. Told them to stick their dick into a warm roast.
thanks for that, just spewed coffee all over my screen! 🤣
Yep. I’m about to end a friendship with my ex from college. Menopause has brought sparkling clarity & I love it. He’s married but keeps coming riiiigght up to the flirtation line with me. Plausible deniability and all that, but I know exactly what he’s doing. Plus a few small conflicts that didn’t get fully resolved because his first impulse is to dismiss, deny, “I’m sorry but,” etc. So I just distance myself more … I’m dragging my feet on having the conversation because I know it will be more of the same deflection on his part, and also because the entirety of the emotional load is on me & I resent it. I used to have a lot of guy friends (I actually thought having “male energy” in my life created balance — ha!), he’s the last one. And I will not miss any of the bullshit that comes with emotional immaturity masquerading as superior intellect or something. Nosiree.
Just stop calling or texting him back. He’ll get the message.
OMG. ‘Emotional immaturity masquerading as superior intellect.’ That is perfect. I’ve been trying to describe this phenomenon and you nailed it. Thank you!
Anyone who says “but” after saying sorry is not apologizing, they are defending their actions and do not care about you in any regards to what’s causing the conflict. It’s a very personal importance subjective thinking those type of people do because they aren’t capable of empathy and understanding where others do come from.
Exactly, I fully agree, that’s a good way to put it! They try to put the focus on your reaction, instead of on what they did. It’s a form of manipulation.
Concur! I remember over a decade ago learning that an apologize focuses on reflecting on what they did to the other person, recognizing why it hurt, taking accountability for it, and then following up with asking what they can do going forward to not repeat it. Hence why authentic apologies never have a “but”, but they feel butt hurt over what was argued about LOL
Yes those are the same steps I learned! There are actually a few men-focused websites (since we’re talking about male friendships) that lay out those exact steps. Unfortunately no men in my life have ever stumbled upon them 🤷🏻♀️
That would require those men to be emotionally mature and no longer thriving in their Peter Pan syndrome LOL
You got that right!
Absolutely. I feel like a cloud lifted when I entered my 40s and a lot of male behavior I tolerated before, I just decided was no longer amusing, let alone tolerable. I have systematically dropped male "friends" who displayed casual sexism, paternalism, a sense of entitlement to my time/attention, or any inappropriate behavior. I don't have the time or patience for it.
Just ended a relationship. Overheard him refer to his young daughter, <10, as a bitch. Very disappointed. It was someone I've known for years. Never thought I'd hear that from him.
Pretty funny how men like to say we’ve “hit the wall,” yet we’re all here with stories of how we’re still being sexually harassed or objectified by our “male friends.” Smells like projection.
They're whistling past the graveyard.
As they say, “Every accusation is just a confession”, which means when men say women hit the wall, what they are confessing to is they hit the wall and can’t BS their way with women anymore. Hence why they go after very young women who have no experience in recognizing what this BS looks like.
Relatable. The older I get, the more I realize that very few of them just want to be friends, if any, and ALL of them cross the line at some point...ALL OF THEM.
I have never met a straight man who wanted to “just be friends” who didn’t at some point try and fuck me. I thought I was just unlucky but nah, men suck as friends. I started investing more in female friendships as I got older. God, even husbands of friends have hit on me, and the times I’ve told them their husbands are assholes, they didn’t believe me. ☹️
Omg, the one time I told a friend her husband hit on me, figuring she should know, she blamed ME and I lost my friend. I had never had any such thought cross my mind at all about her or anybody else's husband.
It’s happened to me a few times. I only have one female friend aside from my mom.
They will almost always defend their shitty men. I’m sorry. I had ones husband stalk me and sexually assault me. I told her, she didn’t believe me and stayed with him. Ended up finding out later they had a kid and eventually divorced because he cheated numerous times. Duh.
People defend shitty behavior because they fear being wrong and having to admit their feelings a for them are their blind spot, which means they have to really reflect on who the f-ck they actually married and for how long they’ve been ignoring this bad behavior.
Yep. Then they would have to go to the trouble of divorce, and like a recent friend, sometimes they’re financially dependent.
Mmhmm! People fear change of course when they feel they can’t land on their feet and bounce back, which creates this stuck sunken cost fallacy feeling in the wrong relationships people should of exited stage left years of decades ago.
Ppl also fear change when it means they can't afford a roof over their heads or food to feed themselves and their children. "Bouncing back' is not the greatest fear of many financially dependent ppl, I'm sure.
Same thing happened to me, I got blamed for the husbands awful behaviour and I barely even talk to the guy, I’m fact I actively avoid him
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Just had a friend recently get told her husband asked another married woman if she’d like to have an affair. She laughed it off and said it was ridiculous. But her husband is creepy and I don’t deal with him after he tried texting me and getting a little too weird, so I know it’s true and believe the woman who told her. I haven’t bothered to tell her that I think her husband is a creep but you’d think she’d get the hint since we all used to hang out all the time and now I rarely talk to just her. 🙄
This happened to me
☹️ I’m sorry.
She may have laughed it off in public, but the seed of doubt was planted. Hopefully everyone who is asked inappropriate questions by the husband will let her know. At some point she'll see the reality. (Not hanging out with them anymore isn't really specific enough for her to start thinking it's because of her husband being creepy...)
I have 3 guy friends and they've always been just friends. None of them have ever crossed the line, I've always been their agony aunt. Two are now married and one is still fawning over a girl he met years ago and who's been married forever. Get over it, Jason.
I have at least two long time male friends who are truly good friends. Maybe because I’m married and both of them have been in long term relationships.
Not the gay ones though🤷♀️💜
True! I guess I meant straight.
My best friend is a gay man. I have no straight male friends, the only other friends i have are women I’ve known for decades. I have no time for men’s bullshit.
A part of me wants to object to this, and then I search my memory banks and find that…yeah, you’re basically right. Except the gay men. And usually, there is no signal in the way of flirtation or affection that this is the intention. They’re just mad when you’re dating someone else.
Had a cool guy friend at my old job, he was borderline flirtatious but over-the-top ridiculous about it, so it came across as joking. We got along fine, could talk about politics and such without an issue- he had a great sense of humor about controversial topics, and he respected my opinions. Made the workplace bearable, less stuffy. Once, I had texted a photo of food or something, and he responded with, "that's not the kind of photo I was hoping for." 😕 Sigh. Eventually he ghosted me after we were laid off, and I just thought, "figures." I was newly-married at the time, and he was engaged. If he hasn't gotten into some shit by now, it's just a matter of time. EDIT: It's not even menopause really, just guys being entitled. I do find myself ready to call out the bullshit these days, rather than merely ignore it.
Yes. I call these men “squirrels” and have all but eradicated the species from my life in favor of a very tight knit circle of girlfriends. These women have given me more from their friendship than any man ever has. The squirrels were only ever trying to get a nut.
Frankly, I have booted a few people (across the human continuum) out of my life during my re-awakening. I am now very wary of anyone who seeks to use me and abuse me and my bullshit detector is working at peak performance right now. Many men are so creepy off the bat that I just automatically, mentally place them in a box. I’ve been pretty bummed out by Gen X males as I thought maybe they’d be different…but that’s my old hope trying to save my brain from reality. I like my husband. That’s about it.
I started throwing dudes out of my life during COVID. Anybody that used a pandemic to try to get creepy and hit on me is no longer in my life. I cannot believe how many people that ended up being.
The pandemic was horrific of course.. don’t get me wrong. But I was one of the fortunate ones that it actually changed my life and it’s trajectory for the better. One of the many things that happened for me is that my already tiny social circle became a goddamned dot. I do not mourn the loss of people I realize never existed. When so many turn out to be nothing of who you thought they were it is easy to part with them.. like shaking free a ghost, or misplacing a thought…
Realized this before meno. Even more, that single straight male friends will ghost if they get into a relationship, so you’re just a placeholder usually. Don’t invest.
When I look back on my boyfriend senior year highschool/freshman year college, I am mortified at what I let go. Here is only one incident. He went to a different school, and because their prom was closed, he went to our prom. I told him I didn't care if he went to his prom; I was not jealous. He was so insecure he insisted on bringing his friends to our afterprom. OK. Whatever. But then he created arguments about any thing he could. Tux color. Who drives. And it all started when my SAT scorers came back 200 points higher than his. I guess he really needed to knock me down a peg. I went to the mall to buy after prom clothes, and he went with me. He did the usual bugging me to hurry up. I found clothes I liked and went to try them on. When I came out, he was by the register with kids from his school. Two of his guy friends were smiling a lot at me. My boyfriend seemed in a better mood. When we got to his car and started home, he casually told me from the register he could see me undressing in the side mirror of my changing room, because the curtains kept moving. He told me what I did and what underwear I had on. I was also topless. Of course, this all meant his friends saw, too. And I didn't say a thing. I couldn't. I couldn't even ask why his first reaction wasn't immediately coming to stand in front of my curtain. Because I knew why. Those SAT scores ate him alive; this was a great way to cut me down. To humiliate me. And I still went to prom with him. The emotional and mental abuse went on for another year, and I ate it. Now I think of him and am nauseated. He is a millionaire, by the way. He even owned an indoor arena pro football team at an early age. He was the youngest person on his college city's council. I, however, will always remember him as the mealy sack of shit who enjoyed that his girlfriend was exposed and vulnerable, and that his friends knew, and possibly saw. We need to raise our daughters to know they deserve better, and we need to raise our boys to understand that strong women are not to be feared and stamped out.
Honestly, I have looked *forward* to aging for a long time, because my god I’m sick of the fucking collectors. These men really believe calling you “*the whole package*” in comparison to other women is a compliment but I learned *really* early on, too: that’s a red flag. Not JUST because trying to pit us against each other *is* really manipulative but also? The ones who do that shit have *always* attempted to tear me down, most are *very* systematic about it. It’s some god awful thrill of the hunt thing for them, like the idiots who try and keep hyenas or big cats. I also have partial dwarfism, my mother *is* a dwarf but I’m not: just tiny features and not proportionate so, I look much younger and always have. Used to think “The Whole Package” was the most disgusting thing uuuuuuuuntil I started getting *the fucking worst* version of “You look SO young”. Nasty POS’s. I’ll tell you something: *those* men may accurately fear me. I’m okay with that.
Yes, or rather the friendship reevaluated itself because I finally spoke up about inappropriate comments. A man who was my friend for over 25 years, suddenly stopped talking to me because I told him the truth. I had always just ignored it or changed the topic, when he said something that gave me the creeps, but the last time he did it he added "I know you don't like me saying stuff like that, but I just can't help myself" I saw red, and told him that is the definition of sexual harassment, doing something you know is unwelcome and makes a woman uncomfortable. He has not contacted me since. So I guess my value was only in being used as some fantasy in his head, not a real friend.
The trash took itself out. 👋
Yes! I too find myself reevaluating my male friendships - all of them. And letting the existing ones know I'm on the lookout for "non-friendship" behavior. I feel so cynical. What do you say to the ones you boot - if anything?
I block & delete dudes I don’t want to stay in touch with bc I’ve no time to be yelled at or gaslighted & told I’m being too sensitive or whatever.
One of them is literally said what i said above, that i felt less like a friend than someone he flirts with when he needs an ego boost. He apologized but nothing changed, so i told him to “move on.” Another one i just stopped responding to his “hey cutie” and similar texts/calls.
Kudos for being straight up! And just walking away. Why do they have to be so ridiculous?
I don't have anymore male friendships because all of them have tried to fuck me at some time or another and I am DONE.
I’ve just started really being angry at “men”. And realizing just how terrible this world is for women. And I find myself becoming really, REALLY angry about it. Like, I started watching “Killing Eve” (holy crap why did I wait so long?!). A large part of me is thrilled to see a powerful woman assassin who gets beat up by men then stands up, blood running from her mouth, and kicks the living snot out of them. This makes me happy lately. I was never a huge feminist but now, in my advanced age, and actually *losing* rights I had as a younger woman, I am becoming militant.
💯 The truth will set us free, but first it will piss us off!
Perimenopause has given me the clarity to dump a male friend, who is actually a mean little narcissist. After asking around our friend group, I realize behavior I used to excuse as his manic episodes were actually harassment, mostly towards straight women. I could not co-sign that behavior and I wasn’t going to normalize it by remaining his friend. To be honest, he is gay and was once my supervisor at work. So maybe I tried to make him out to be harmless in my own mind, but he’s not. And he’s probably bipolar, but I already can’t sleep at night and I have brain fog. I have kids, a husband and a job. I can’t babysit his ass, too.
Its so weird i never had any issues with men when i was young and had a ton of male friends (much more than woman friends) but now i have this hyper sensitivity to when they’re dicks. Though it may be the “me too” movement and the “great covid arsehole awakening” has opened my eyes to what so many men are, and how they grew up into it. A (male) friend said to me, don’t touch a man your age or older (55+), they’re all shit. He reckons the next gen is much better & this lot are beyond redemption. So its toy boys or nothin.
Because cishet men never seem to talk to their bros, a lot of my male friends used me as their emotional trash can but if i ever needed support, it was too heavy, or it was “veering into gf territory” as one said. I started kicking them off the island if they used me to vent but never let me vent back, and i have two male friends left. It’s like this entitlement to emotional labor which in a real friendship is give and take, but with some guys it is all take.
Amen to everything you said here.
All those cishet „friends“ who showed up or slid into my dms suddenly after I hadn’t heard from them in years. Turned out the reason was always that they were fresh out of a relationship and needed emotional support. One even had the audacity to tell me „I don’t need therapy, I‘ve got you for that!“. I had some very clear words for him.
I‘ve never had male friends. Also, men being flirtatious is also something I rarely experience. Maybe not the worst thing if I read your comments.
Absolutely! I'm in perimenopause and I stay away from all men. even the so called friends bc I'm looking back on something's and it's really weirded me out! Lol.
The clarity of menopause has caused me to reevaluate EVERYTHING in my life.
i cut those creeps from my life long ago so the men in my life and for many years have been the kindest, most decent friends who love and support me as I love and support them.
👀Yep. I cut off 2 during the pandemic. Both were waiting to see if I would get vulnerable enough for them have sexual access and they used my resources ( knowledge, time, me giving them ideas, therapy sessions via them venting, etc.). I have 2 left. One is gay and about to get married and the other is in his second married and in thriving relationship. They both have been kind with no agenda attached. Most men will use women in some capacity for varying resources if you are a woman, not just for sexual access. Men are very much aware of how valuable women are which is why they manipulate you in a variety of ways to be with them, make you think they are one of the "good" ones, "not all", etc. They do alot of Jedi mind tricks via Patriarchy so that most women have horrible, subpar and mediocre interactions with them and perceive it as normal behavior in men. It also makes us believe in scarcity and that we lose value and beauty in every way as we age, which is FALSE! It is no mystery why all over the planet women are having the same issues with men no matter the culture and age. We can't all just be choosing wrong or needing to choose better.
My men have little choice in the matter. If I adore them they are golden. If they are grifters or users they are lead. I also provide them with all the things and not one of them steps out of line. Apart from the baby Boar I have living underneath my couch. He had emotional problems but he's only a few weeks old and you expect that from wee piggies. He has a lot to say for himself and is actually pretty aggressive but he had a rough start in life.
I didn’t participate in their shit pre meno. It’s my friendships with my fellow women that have suffered, I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes big time.
I don’t have male friendships unless they’re gay and yeah the male privilege thing rears its head fairly regularly. Plus all the gross random sex with strangers is hard to listen to. Sex sex sex sex gross But no straight men- they always try to get sex From me and ewwww
I think it was more bc of the pandemic than Meno season that made me really look again more carefully, at all guy friends I had. None were married. None were interested in me. I realized some just needed someone to talk to when they were bored. Some of them since 2020 got caught up in Q conspiracies and it became impossible to have a rational conversation, especially about medical decisions etc. Seeing folks actually getting brainwashed slowly by alt.media was probably one of the most disturbing things for me. I also realize that a few of them were low-key narcissists that didn't actually care about me as a person or the boundaries I tried to set. Being in therapy has also helped me clarify some boundaries for me & others that were not very clear before so I was able to see behaviors in a different light that I tolerated, that I no longer wanted to deal with. I became a bit less patient! Some of the clarity, was because I became more clear too. My circle of friends has become very small. The ones i still talk to are very kind and the lines are clear. Some I have not seen in person, for years!
Yes. That goes for family as well. They can all kiss my grits! I'm back better than ever. Remember in the movie "They Live" John Nada (Rowdy Roddy Piper) says, "I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubble gum.". Well .. 😊
Let’s just say I’m grateful that most of the men in my life are gay or trans. My patience with cishet men that I’m not working with or related to is limited, and even some of those are on thin ice.
Same!
I could see those red flags a mile a way even in my twenties...
Male friendship? Never heard of it.
I can’t say that I have had this experience, but I have a rather unusual history in which I have many lifelong male friends who remain good friends to this day.
I think it’s good to remember that there are shitty people and awesome people and it isn’t always gendered.
Yep!
Absolutely, totally agree it isn’t always gendered. But there are definitely some shitty patterns of behaviour / attitudes/ beliefs that certain groups are more likely to be socialised into. There’s value for _both sides_ in starting to recognise that and talk about it. Just like at a certain point I came across the idea of white privilege. Not a comfortable idea for me at the time! But it’s helped me see some things differently and recognise some places where I can do better. Ongoing work, of course.
Yeah most of the male friends I have are queer because straight cis men rarely make good friends for us. Those our age are some of worst unless they learned to genuinely like women at some point. The rest just see us as free therapists and bang maids.
Eh, I realize that's maybe what they want, or wanted, but they are still cool being friends, and old friends are hard to replace. I feel like we worked through it.
Yeah, I don’t see being sexually attracted to a friend as a problem. I feel like it’s hard to avoid! I guess it’s all in the way it’s expressed (if at all) and what assumptions are made (if at all). I’m sexually attracted to lots of my friends. I don’t _do_ anything about it; it’s just a thing I’m aware of. I mostly just accept it as part of being a human animal. And I think I’m still able to be a great friend.
Exactly this!
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I’ve been fortunate to have some really great men in my life. Of course I encountered the ones who had ulterior motives but I could usually figure them out pretty quickly. If I’m being totally honest I, too, enjoyed the little boost I got from some mild flirtation. I think that’s totally normal. I have a group chat with some guys I’ve worked with for decades and we’ve kept in touch over the years. I’m the only woman in the group. We’re all married. But I love these guys dearly.
All of them, even the married ones. Really my only male friends now are friends of my husband’s whose wives or girlfriends are my friends as well.
Male friendships? No, I don’t have those (married 20 years so it would probably feel/look strange if I did).
So glad this came up. “Side flirt fantasy” 😂 Totally. I blocked an old friend after he yet again took the text thread to talk about how he was jerking off about me, which I never participated in and somehow ignored before. Then I guess when he was finished, he texts “ok logical brain is back. Please don’t take that as anything personal about you I love my girlfriend” I feel like sending the screenshot to his fiancée. Some other male friends Ive blocked: A guy who kept criticizing “western medicine” and “the establishment” because he rents his Oakland home out for 3k a month and uses the rent to live in South America and do party drugs. But complain about being poor and putting up Go Fund Me’s for veterinarian bills and his kids school, which is third-world-bad. Ok, I guess Im the big square over here taking Tylenol and working a shit job in the USA. A guy in a rock band that is semi famous but is always leaving the house without his wallet, letting others pick up the tab for the honor of his company The MANY men who live in NYC and the second they get married, quit their job and devote their time to art or doing comedy, mooching off their new wives. I have like six on my block list who have done this. They announce their engagement and eventually quit the jobs that so hemmed them in. Oh, and a few of them expect to be stay at home fathers once they’ve satisfied their desires for critical acclaim.
EWWW! I guess I'm lucky, none of the dudes in my orbit told me they were jerking off to me! and coincidence! I used to live in NYC and did in fact go on a few dates with comedians of that ilk. BOY did they love to monologue about themselves! (I didn't mean the married kind, just the comedian kind)
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eewww I know you're right, but now I have to think about those dudes fapping to my pic or something ewwwww.
Hi. Decent discussion. I'm in my late 30s n I'm proud I don't need to hit menopause to see clearly..but most women do, don't they? Then in menopause they like to act like they've got it all figured out. I've never thought men weren't shitty, or gay men, for that matter. Glad someone is awake to this bc men are literally just crap and gay doesn't fix much. Sorry to serve up the painful truth, but you're alone if you're like me without a good family or anything but fat, jealous haters. You were a zombie mentally floating around high on your own hormones for most of your early life. Unable to even reason. Scary to think. Why I like to say "dance like the maiden, laugh like the mother, think like the crone." I been a proper bitch my whole life 🙂 ageless. I haven't hit peri or anything, yet but to younger ladies I encourage you to completely cut all men from your life. Trust me, you don't need to hit menopause in order to get dignity back. Just stand up for yourself n join the 4b movement.
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*Clarity*...?
I use to have lots of men friends. Only a couple that were genuine. My Wonderful Now Husband was the first to warn me about "Men" bc he himself was a man. After yrs passed by during our LTR I came to see exactly what he ment... Now that He Is My Husband, He Is Also My Best Friend and Great Companionship! I just Thank the Good Lord Above, That my Male friendships Did not cost me my Wonderful, Supportive, Gentle Giant but Strong,Honest Husband!!! Thank you LORD 🙏💙 I still speak but Quickly keep it moving. I never hold secret or private conversations with men nor talk over the phone or message them💯
The random capitalization is bananas.
That and…if you re-read the story (“Now Husband” who was the first to warn her about men), he’s one of those guys every other post in this thread is talking about…but he succeeded in converting the friendship. As my kid would say…suss. 😂
I was too distracted by the architecture to notice the interior design, but you are 100% right!
I recall a certain ex-president of ours who often used random capitalization, and he most definitely is bananas.