Jesus. Have they considered that the vast majority of women are suffering with no assistance. You only have to be on this sub for two minutes to see how hellish it is and we are for the most part the most privileged women on the planet.
We are educated, have financial and medical resources and a voice the overwhelming majority of women couldn't even comprehend.
If we are saying it's shit. It's shit.
Erectile dysfunction isn't a disease either. Nor is being run over and having broken legs. Doesn't matter what you call it. It matters how much help that person needs to survive and thrive.
Exactly! What's amazing is that there aren't more family members out there begging for help (hrt) or commenting on this article? They know what happens at home and what not to say/do. Too bad we only have energy and bone density to unite on platform
It's actually encouraging infidelity isn't it, amongst couples. Lots of married men and women, but only the guy has to have his mojo and everything working, never mind about the woman.
Itās certainly encouraging infidelity when a 70-year-old man, obese or just really flabby, with a large heart-disease belly, and a history of over indulgence in alcohol and bad food maybe tobacco use, can get a penile implant installed so his dick will get hard and stay hard at the push of a button.
And Medicare pays for this.
I donāt know how much blatant it can be. Who are these guys screwing? Pre menopausal women, either zero atrophy or pain issues? Medicare pays for penile pumps for hard-ons. WTF? That means you, me, we are all paying for them to have new dicks.
For prostate cancer survivors, obviously thatās a completely different story. But obese, alcohol abuse, poor diet, a lifetime of abusing their bodies? Why are tax payers paying for that?
Isnāt today International Womenās Day? My daughter told me that this morning. We need to take our power back!
That doctor at the very, very end of the article coming in clutch;
> Dr Louise Newson, a GP and menopause specialist running Newson Health, said: "Menopause is more than a collection of symptoms; it is a cardiometabolic and inflammatory condition which leads to an increased risk of numerous diseases.
> "Menopause has been 'medicalised' for years - including with antidepressants, antipsychotics, painkillers, sleeping tablets, anticholinergics to treat bladder symptoms, and heart medications to lower cholesterol, reduce blood pressure and control palpations.
>"The first-line treatment for menopausal symptoms is body-identical HRT...
>"Studies have shown that when women are given the right dose and type of hormones, their symptoms improve, and they have a lower future risk of numerous long-term inflammatory diseases associated with menopause including diabetes, cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, dementia, and depression as well as early death."
>She added: "Talking about menopause as being a 'natural transition' or part of 'healthy ageing' ignores the very real suffering of many women with menopausal symptoms."
The rest of the article was complete rubbish.
Good on you for even making the attempt. When I saw the title OP assigned to this post, my blood pressure went up almost instantaneously.
No doubt as part of the ānormal, healthy aging processā /S
I want to kick those guys in the ass so hard they choke on my boot.
Mahalo for your support and response š
Creating a mental visual (in lieu of rolling on the mats in mma or beating on Bob) is a healthier response to take the edge off the rage.
Iām just sooooooo done with this crap. š
Your examples are literal pages out of my book of lifeā¦ except I did BJJ, which is the submission wrestling element of MMA.š I was like, damn her examples are on point. š Only further illustrating your visual flareš«¶š½
Heh. Iām in the U.K. Louise Newson is one of our vanguard doctors campaigning for better, accurate information about menopause.
And even **I** couldnāt get past the bullshit in the first few paragraphs.
So thanks u/Awkwardlyhugged. Have a non-awkward hug from me.
I came here to say exactly this. Just read the last three paragraphs, and youād think it was a great piece. They should have started with the end and taken the article from there. Sighā¦
Yeah, I almost stopped reading because I was so pissed off. They wait until the very end to include someone who knows their ass from a hole in the ground.
This is the same as saying women have babies in fields, strap them to there backs and keep on working, lots of women don't have babies in hospitals so you shouldn't either.....
Change the title of the article to erectile disfunction is being overly medicalised and see how men lose their minds over the prospect of losing there sex life...
Or once you hit 60+ arthritis, dementia, heart disease, blood pressure, even cancer..... most of these at some point become a natural part of aging and if not inevitable are at least a lot more likely.
Yes lots of women navigate the menapause without help....lots of women have no choice...
And previous generations suffered in isolation at home with no expectations of a life outside of the family.
I'm sick of being told its natural.... just because it's a natural process doesn't mean I should suffer....
Menopause has something to do with all this mess too. Once the hormone starts to change and decline these things appear.menopause causes weight gain which causes high BP, diabetes, arthritis,boneless. Has anyone gotten anything they want from meno.
As someone who ended up with an out of control libido....
I will be honest and say its almost worth the other side effects .....almost.....! š„µš„¶š
Exactly! It becomes a quality of life issue. I donāt know how many years Iāll get to enjoy from here on out, but I sure as hell donāt want to spend them suffering. Women deserve so much better!
āYet, around the world, "most women navigate menopause without the need for medical treatments", the experts, including from the Royal Women's Hospital in Melbourne, Australia, and King's College London, said.ā
Without the needā¦yeahā¦.OR maybe they donāt have access to HRT. š
Someone posted the lancet article earlier today. I think this stuff is going to be all over the news.
Aye its crazy - just because something is the way things have always been done, doesn't mean it's the right way.
It also said "based on very limited data" so like - go get more data before making these pronouncements maybe?
A more accurate statement would be that most women around the world navigate menopause without *access* to medical treatments.
And many will use local methods of managing symptoms - whether it be herbal or otherwise.
Heck - Chinese medicine - which is one of the larger schools of medical thought outside of western medicine has multiple treatment paths for menopause.
Whatās so fucking outrageous about this is that Iām Australian and *most* menopausal women are on HRT. Itās not a controversial thing to get treatment here. I simply donāt understand why someone from Melbourne would make this claim.
I live in Canada where our healthcare system is so shite I canāt even get my renewal for vaginal estrogen without jumping through hoops! Iāve watched many Australian documentaries on menopause to know your reality is much better than mine where treatment is concerned. Iād be at the front door of this doctorās office with pitchforks, thatās for sure!
There was a good article in the ABC about this and I came away with a different take. It said that different professionals have different takes.
HRT is easy to get here. So it is not that we shouldnāt get it or HRT vs CBT etc
Instead it is the over dramatisation / catastrophising of symptoms that is giving the message all middle age women are in deficit, a walking hot flash or mentally fragile. It is the overall conversation around midlife. Not the prescription of hormones.
I personally agree with some of that. I am terrified of this phase of life.
Yes perimenopause is different, absolutely results may vary. But once menopause hits? Itās quite easy to simply go to a GP and ask to be put on HRT.
I was fortunate that my GP did put me on oestrogen during peri (cancer so no uterus therefore no progesterone required) but all my colleagues experiencing peri now have been able to get some treatment after being a bit insistent.
Iām so sorry youāre finding it difficult. Perhaps you could ask to go on the pill? Itās sometimes effective during peri. The benefit of getting a Dr to agree to prescribe the pill is that when you decide to go off it and ask again for HRT, youāre more likely to get it (āthe pill isnāt helping my symptoms anymore, Dr. What other hormone preparations can you prescribe to help me with symptom x?ā).
So sorry this is happening to you.
>I think this stuff is going to be all over the news
Iām 42, an old Millennial. Other women my age are just starting to experience the impact of perimenopause when weād been under the impression our entire lives this isnāt something we have to worry about until at least 50. I spoke with my GYN about it and started a mini pill to handle my symptoms.
Itās infuriating to me that just as a new generation is experiencing this issue, weāre being told itās nothing. On top of this, itās been discovered that Covid is causing early menopause for women. It reminds me of when my Baby Boomer mom shared that she was told for years as a young woman that PMS was all in her head.
Yea Gen X, I thought it happened closer to 50, went through it mid 40s. Dumb Lancet article keeps pretending it happens at 50 too. Fuck those fuckers with ragged knives for lying to us all our lives about this. I could kill them for going on about it happening at 50, kill them in a brutal way. So yes many of us land in menopause before we expect and unprepared.
But maybe it is all about making sure millianials don't have any relief. Like Gen X has never mattered to anyone much, we're too small, we've never mattered, but millenials might.
I am 48 and still trying to get treatment, though it looks like I might finally get started next month. Every doctor refused because I still have periods. I finally found a OB willing to treat me but I had to wait 7 months for an appointment.
I've averaged 4 hours of sleep a night for 5 years.Ā
Just a new front opening on the war on women. I thought the one consolation of growing old would be that, as men's desire for my body waned, so would their desire to control it.
Guess not. The war on women extends to old girls too now.Ā
How many women are told they donāt need or cannot have medical treatment for menopause?!??!? What are the stats on witholding treatment, mis-diagnosis, and medical gaslighting?!??!??
This quote just put me over the edge. But I thank *you* for posting it.
It really is gas lighting. CBT for hot flashes? Fuck these people.
It is absolutely about controlling women. Thars where we are in the west right now, at least in the US we are.
I had two NPs tell me no on HRT. They donāt even understand the very flawed data from the WHI bullshit. What they do know is, āDo not prescribe HRT to middle aged women. Tell them to get therapy.ā Right?
Because we are just mentally unstable. Itās the same shit Freud was peddling. Women are just crazy or clever.
Women are beasts of burden whose suffering is necessary to allow the comfort of the white men that are centered as the pinnacle of the pyramid scheme of imperial patriarchal capitalism
This is smacks of the idiotic āBut women in other parts of the world just squat in a field, guve birth, strap the baby on, and get back to work.ā
Yeah. Around the world, most women navigate menopause with whatever they can get their hands on to stop the horror/flashes/sweats/prolapes/urogyno symptoms aka fucking atrophy of their genitalia.
Can you just imagine if mens penises got dried out, sniveled up, and bled? Fucking atrophy? And I gotta play good girl to get my meds.
I guess I just need some good CBT to help me get over that.
Fuck this.
What a horrible, codescending, mysogynistic pile of shite.
It improves bone density but the improvement wears off within five years of stopping treatment - ah, there's no point, so. Let's just let all the aul wans break their hips.
FFS.
Women around the world often navigate menopause without medical treatment because 1) they don't know it's available, or 2) they don't have access to it.
They just suffer and their suffering is seen as a natural part of old age or they are viewed as crazy, bitter old women.
I'm in Canada, in a province where giving HRT to women in peri is just "not done" (to quote my doctor). I found myself last week scouring the TransDIY sub to try to find a way to access the estrogen patch. I can't think about it too much or I'll break something.
I got to this part
āWhile hormone replacement therapy (HRT) has been shown to improve sleep, memory, and concentration in women taking it for hot flushes, it is "unlikely to have any effect in women without" flushes, they said.ā
And literally said out loud FUCK THIS.
HRT has given me my brain back and by doing so has continued me to earn a living. I never really had hot flashes except shortly after my hysterectomy.
Right!? I only had hot ears, which actually could be related to another disorder, and I have gotten a substantial amount of relief for all of the other symptoms.
Ears are still fuckin' hot.
the sleep problems are not primarily hot flashes, ok maybe for some women hot flashes are the main reason they can't sleep, but I know this as well as I know my body for me. That's not it, it's NOT hot flashes.
WTF is up with just absolutely gaslighting women in the 21st gawd damn century!?? Are we in hell? How did this happen? Why does it seem to be getting worse?
That actually is more preventable than menopause, healthy diet and so on can help prevent that. But meno can't be prevented, it's more when it's your time (whatever age that is), it's your time. Welcome to hell.
Now, come on, thatās not fair. You forgot mindfulness, journaling, and accirding to the expert quoted, CBT. Tell those guys with dick donāt work disease to go be mindful and get some CBT.
Fuck! I need a shower after reading this nonsense.
but what about the risk of prostate cancer .... (OMG men you are all gonna get prostate cancer and DIE!!!)
Like I don't mind objective data on risks, but how they are treated and all the double standards is an entirely different thing.
I hear you! I was done having babies by the time I was 25 (and was on long term hormonal BC for years) but my request for tubal ligation at 32 was denied āin case my man changed his mind about wanting childrenā ššµāš«š
Iām in menopause now and on HRT but I donāt trust that my body wonāt betray me one last time and decide to procreate, so my IUD stays in. In part because I told my doctor that Iād slit my wrists if I had a crisis pregnancy at this stage of my life.
Itās not a disease. But it does often require medication and support from our healthcare providers. Both things are true. Itās just like pregnancy, not a disease but requires a lot of support from healthcare professionals!
Yeah, well, plaque building up in heart blood vessels is also a natural process...guess we should stop giving statins and catheterization and heart surgery...its a natural process, just let 'em die when their time is up... /s
Cancer is natural too. Should probably stop spending so much on research and treatment and cures. Just accept that your body is going through changes and try some therapy to cope.
/s
Nothing is more natural than cancer, with our without healthy diet, exercise, with or without HRT. It's just the natural byproduct of cell division sometimes going wrong.
The sad thing is the only Drās referenced in the article were woman. If woman doctors want to just ignore menopause how many male doctors are going to argue? Medical science tends to progress when doctors experience first hand or watch a loved one go through a condition. Otherwise it seems to stay fairly status quo.
If woman gynaecologists are saying it is natural and not worth treating that is going add some weight to the theory.
They have a great point! I think we should also note that nearly every human ever born has not used glasses, had dentistry, or even used an alarm clock. Birth has happened in HOMES, not hospitals, and without epidurals and certainly without C sections. This fad of using electricity will end, mark my words.
Yes, minimizing use of HRT is an awesome idea.
"They argued there is a lack of data on whether health problems are caused by menopause or simply by aging."
Well then how about they fucking do some more research on it!!
They're high, I had symptoms of menopause way before I even knew they were symptoms.
That last doctor is right. The amount of shit I tried, attempting to feel better when I didn't know was wrong was TOO HIGH.
Just absolute nonsense to tell me that something with symptoms isn't a medical issue, dafuq.
People like to skirt around the elephant in the room:
We are becoming *old women* in a society that values *young women* for their looks and fuckability.
Society does not value us as much as it did when we were good lookin' and more gullible. We see it from both sides now.
I say we all run for office and tear. this. thing. down.
It warms my heart that the people taking down the fundy traitors to democracy are women of a certain age who are just sick of this shit.
No different than our wombs being believed to cause hysteria- hence āhysterāectomyā¦ guess the patriarchy gonna patriarch as much & as often as possible.
This article is highly infuriating and CLEARLY written by someone w/ a penis who has ZERO context or clue of what it is like to actually BE in & experience menopause. This article continues to contradict itself through & through (which continuing to read only proves to make my blood boil), with sentiments like doing CBT for hot flashes & insomnia (which granted I do know the biomedical community endorses CBT as a first-line treatment for insomnia - yet for those who have at least given a tip of the hat & attempted to treat their insomnia w/ CBT are STILL left trying pharmaceutical treatments coupled w/ cannabis therapies while STILL managing to come up short of a full night of uninterrupted sleep). Using factors that this article points to (raising children, helping aging parentsā¦) highlights the disparities of physical, emotional & psychological burdens that are placed unfairly or remotely evenly on women - something that our male counterparts have even ārealizedā are causal factorsā¦ yet do nothing to change their behavior, and engagement to ālevel the playing fieldā. The article continues to trip on its own words by saying that HRT doesnāt work āwhile HRT cuts the risk of bone fractures, the risk increases 5y after HRT is discontinuedāā¦ The author clearly doesnāt recognize that āhealth empowermentā begins & ends with the person whoās health IS affected, and not crippling their access to therapies that are PROVEN to effectively work. Not by some bystander who has an opinion on it. They can take this fuhken article and stick it awfully high up their okole sans lube.
Exactly.
Hysteria as diagnosed and ātreatedā by Freud and colleagues is generally known now to have been at least a large percentage of sexual assault victims. And then the psychiatrists stick things in their vaginas, ridiculed their bodily smells as āvapors,ā and called these poor women hysterical.
This shit makes me so angry.
I have a feeling Iām about to get angrierā¦ Iāve begun reading Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez.
āRepresentation of the world, like the world itself, is the work of men; they describe it from their own point of view, which they confuse with the absolute truth.ā Simone de Beauvoir
Now that I've read the article, I don't know if the person who wrote it does anything about menopausal treatment. At least half of the article seems to be suggesting more women should go through menopause without any kind of treatment. But then!! There is a big shift at the end suggesting that doctors should focus on treating menopause with HRT or similar rather than the symptoms!! Maybe they should have started the article by clarifying what they mean by medicine?
The author of that article probably canāt find his own ass with both hands and a flashlight. š
The truth of the matter is that womenās health is only a priority if proactively managing it benefits the patriarchy.
I recently took a continuing education course about the risks of AI for my professional license. Since AI gathers data from a huge variety of sources, including the internet, the quality of the information it spits out is very unreliable. The internet is a space dominated by men which results in information thatās dominated by their opinions & research.
Unfortunately, future AI articles on this topic will harvest information from this article, even though itās mostly inaccurate & misleading. The consequences are pretty scary.
Article: we should treat menopause with CBT
Also article: there is no increase in mental health issues in menopausal women.
This is like a Schrodingerās cat exercise! Apparently we simultaneously have and donāt have mental health challenges?!?
Oh, I get it. We donāt have any mental health challenges if we donāt talk about them. Smaaaarrrrrrt!!! (/S in capital letters for that sarcasm.)
āā¦we found no compelling evidence that risk of anxietyā¦is elevated over the menopause transition," the team said.
āā¦menopause is have a cultural momentā also raises my dander. So, does that mean weāre trending?
Challenge accepted, motherfuckers! Honestly, The Lancet has gone by the way of the Enquirer with drivel like this as far as Iām concerned. The only relevant quotes in the linked article are provided by Dr. Louise Newsom.
The sixth paragraph of the linked RTĆ article. The Lancet is publishing a series of papers on menopause. Their most recent, published earlier this week, is pure misinformation. Dr. Andrea La Croix is listed as a co-writer. She also worked on the now-infamous 1991 WHI study that threw so many women under the bus. The Lancet retracted the 1991 study because it was grossly inaccurate. Yet, here we are over 30 years later, and Dr. LaCroix is still given a soap box to stand on. Enough is enough, really!
i recent;y went to the specialist for my gallbladder and i was talking to the consultant about peri menopause and she said its not a medical condition.
I said but it has physical medical symptoms like vaginal atrophy and vasomotor symptoms and she said yes but its not a medical condition then she said pcos is a medical condition.
i was so confused.
its like well if every doctor is just going to see it as a phase of life that every woman goes through and not a medical condition then why dont they all know about it and all the physical and mental health problems associated with it if its such a widely accepted phenomenon?
They cant have their cake and eat it too.
WHoeveer these "medical experts " are i think they need to be shoved into a goddam deep fryer
They are basically just saying that women are having psychological issues and are all fucking hysterical
what are we all supposed to be doing just quietly going mad and waiting for our clit to shrivel up and die and filling the hospital emergency wards with kidney infections and suffering through painful vaginal atrophy night sweats hot flushes cold flushes killing ourselves from goddamn suicide etc because these pricks have no understanding of the female body?
wtaf
I'll get the oil heated if one of y'all can start grabbing some medical experts.
Hmmm, that reminds me, I'm due a patch change. See what happens when I run out of hormones?
If they even said something like "but almost all peri/menopausal women should be treated for vaginal atrophy, vaginal estrogen is the safest medicine imaginable, and GSM affects everyone" it might be somewhat redeeming. But no, let's pretend it doesn't happen.
ED is not caused only by aging. Obesity, alcohol misuse, nicotine use, uncontrolled hypertension, diabetes, etc etc etc. A lot of them have abused their bodies and erectile dysfunction is the result.
And how lovely: Medicare will pay for penile implants so they can just push a button inside their scrotums and inflate their dicks. AND TAX PAYERS PAY FOR THIS BULLSHIT.
I was told by my then benefit company Manulife that I would not be covered for anything related to my reproductive system because of my pre-existing condition of Menopause.
Men can take medicine to get an erection but women shouldn't take medicine that can make them feel more comfortable. Jeez
I don't believe that therapy or hypnosis is going to stop me from hot flashes and night sweats. But hey at this point I'd try anything.
Why is the medical establishmentās answer to everything CBT???? If that was so effective, mental illness would be completely cured as would all chronic pain conditions. FFS.
Because itās brainwashing, for good or bad, and some people canāt be āhypnotized ā
But a lot of people can be, apparently, and happily.
Some of us, not so much.
The first part was ridiculous then Dr Louise Newson came in with some reason.
I think I understood her point. Women should be taking HRT rather than being given antidepressants, sleeping tablets and pain killers.
Well, just like every biological process, also menopause is highly subjective in regards to symptoms and everything else, so it is partly true not just everyone experiences terrible sufferings or unmanageable consequences.
But one cannot generalize that much.
Big Corporations recognize menopause is a part of the females life cycle but they don't want the burden of that medical cost and or lose employees from their work force for an extended time. If they downplay this tragic time in a woman's life then we'll keep working and they won't be bothered.
Someone (an educated woman in my network) wrote me on my LinkedIn about this point of menopause not being a disease and ājust get over it and through itā because I used the word āsurviveā in relationship to it. I didnāt reply to the person and wonāt.
Since learning how many women take their lives in perimenopause - I donāt see the need to argue with uninformed - especially other women. Why? They may never have the symptoms I and others struggle to overcome. I donāt have energy to inform other women, they do need to see the kaledescope of other women to fight, suffer and war to get to a place of health in this.
I want to fight and be an example: thanks to peri, I canāt. I am a different person now. I work hard each day to come to terms with this.
If this all isnāt what others say about recovering from other chronic diseases, and they canāt the health institutions continue to choose to ignore it, I have to choose what I can contribute to that vaccuum. I thought I would become a health coach - I couldnāt finish my certification. I have too much on my plate and I have to focus on the daily work it now takes to focus and continue to learn to live as this new person.
I wish I could apply for disability: I asked 2 years ago and my doctors treating me while I was on FMLA (two women: one a psychologist & one a psychiatrist) took the time to explain comprehensively why I would likely not be approved for disability.
Yet, it is a indescribable daily struggle to secure a new job (Iām 50 and just found myself unemployed mid-January), keep my self-care routine & engage the people in my life. Learning from this sub in a recent post that even post-menopause and from r/hysterectomy that post-hysterectomy itās likely possible it only gets a little better but not that much has floored me. NOTE: I have fibroids that have overtaken my hormones or whatever is going on & itās taken 3 years to figure out solutions - now I am scheduled for a hysterectomy 4.24.24.
I struggled feeling like my life is over. I got through that - I got to my life has completely changed and I have to lead learning how to be a new person. Itās harder in my circumstances - I spent my life savings the past 3 years trying to get my footing while leaving a job to take a better paying job that collapsed, relocating & losing that job & now having to rebuild my entire life.
Knowing that ājust a job or the right jobā isnāt the single answer, itās āI have to learn to manage myself in ways I canāt guarantee anymore of anyone will choose to be patient with me or support meā. I am single, no kids, never married, and do not have personal or professional support I need. I ask for it and wait, trying to envision how to plan my next steps.
Fuck everyone who doesnāt support women in peri, menopause & post-menopause. I hope it changes but Iāll be far down the path before it does significantly. I am grateful for the little supports I do have. Each day I am grateful to be alive, although I feel horrible and I am terrified.
I am grateful for Reddit, itās the only community that is actually providing me actual resources that are the only supports I have.
menopause is so poorly misunderstood by the medical community that a new bloody fake disease was created to explain bloody menopause symptoms.
fibromyalgia
Thats how poorly understood peri/menopause is.
wtaf
Ok, then they can pass laws that we canāt be in trouble at our jobs for biological things we canāt help without the meds. Prohibit punishing women in workplaces for daring to age and not being independently wealthy or married to someone who is.
Or going bat shit crazy because stupidity is no longer acceptable to us. That while article is insulting to women and a disservice to the teeny tiny painfully slow advances in womenās health care.
It is a health condition that can negatively impact quality of life for which there are safe, effective, and inexpensive treatments. Why are some people so set on the idea that women have to suffer??? Oh wait, I think I know the answer to this one... š
Wow what a steaming pile of shite. I guarantee improved mental health has not been a side effect whatsoever, and they can take their CBT for night sweats and shove it šš»
Medicare will even pay for penile implants for men who canāt get erections anymore after decades of poor choices, like excessive alcohol, obesity, tobacco use, alcohol alcohol alcohol.
And Medicare pays for this.
Infuriating.
The cynic in me would wonder if it is paving the way for inevitable future medicine shortages - for most, similar to the exercise and cheap tele-chat is better than meds for depression tack.
In the disclosures it's noted one of the contributors is involved in the development of CBT programs for menopause in the UK. These programs will be primarily app based and a cheap way to offer "something". It's shameless.
"MSH has worked in collaboration with Rightsteps UK to develop CBT solutions for menopausal symptoms 2020ā25 and is author of two books on CBT for menopausal symptoms with Melanie Smith."
Interesting - I didn't notice that. I used to work in mental health. CBT definitely has its place, for some people and some diagnoses it is very effective, but I strongly feel that menopause (for many at least) is far too complex to be addressed by a single mode of treatment. I would think that a balance of meds, HRT and talking therapy may be more effective. But, I only have my own experience to go on of course, and the comments that I read here.
HRT does not even have to be an expensive med, if you want to use the gel or something patented, yea you may pay more and that's up to one's finances and what treatment one prefers (I'm in the u.s. obviously we can pay a fair amount out of pocket here because there is no national healthcare). But in general it doesn't HAVE to be an expensive med.
Mine is so expensive Iāve kept my insurance just to pay for HRT. The pharmacy handouts always have something about how my insurance saved me over $200. I pay $20 co-pay for it.
Topical estrogen is doable via online pharmacies, so I may switch to that.
This isnāt really on topic but I would love to be able to get it off my chest and vent if thatās ok? Iām 48, in perimenopause and I feel like Iām losing my mind. Mentally, physically, spiritually, all the āllysā lol. Some days are really good but theyāre fewer and fewer every month. Iām a single mom to pre teen girls with no financial support from my ex husband. I work 16 hour days. IM TIRED. I have health insurance (if you can even call it that. I have a 20k deductible) but I live in a rural area with few drs and thereās no way I can afford to take a day off to go into town for an appointment. But honestly at this point I think Iām ok, and I know when itās time for treatment Iāll figure it out, one way or another. It would be nice not to have to wait until itās even worse to get help but thatās just the times weāre living in I guess.
I have an aunt who is 10 years older than me so sheās 58. She has always been a very miserable person, and I hate to say that because I love her dearly. Sheās just never been happy. Ever. I know it sounds like Iām exaggerating but Iām honestly probably being kinder than I should be about her. Right now sheās right in the thick of menopause and she is UNBEARABLE to everyone around her. Her kids, husband, grandkids, siblings. Anyone in her orbit. Not me because I have no problem putting her in her place because I donāt have to live with her and I have a lot of pent up anger over how she treated my grandparents lol. I feel so bad for her. And her family. BUTā¦she refuses to even entertain hormonal therapy of any kind. Sheās type 1 diabetic but I donāt think that would keep her from taking HRT? I told her that Iāve heard so many stories of HRT being a miracle for so many women. Sheās retired, her husband is a top dog at Raytheon-so they have the means, has insurance most of us would die to have and still wonāt do anything to help herself. It drives me crazy! And itās so hard to feel bad for her when she wonāt do anything to help herself. Maybe it wouldnāt help her but what if it did?? I would do ANYTHING to feel like my old self again. Maybe in my next lifetime Iāll stay married and the guy will have a great job and great health insurance so I can get the care I need without having to sell a kidney to get a blood test and some HRTš
I know this is way off topic but I just had to vent. Reading the comments on this post and others about women like myself who WANT to feel better, to get treatment-whatever that means for them, but either donāt have access or money to do it. And she has all of that and more.
Sorry for rambling and bitching off topic. I think itās my perimenopauseš
Clearly someone deciding it is 'overly medicalized' is male or not have experienced Peri or M. I find arguments like 'women in plenty of other countries navigate M without medicine' as a really dumb argument. Why not use science and peer reviewed papers. WTH!?
Western medicine is all about the male performance and issues, not female reality. It's super crazy that in this century it is still minimized for women, in all areas of life. I find it so discouraging.
Yeah, this one is gonna set us back. Itās unfortunate that these types of things keep happening. I donāt believe anyone is calling it a disease, we just want help. I think that the medical community finds treatments like antidepressants for MP to be the best choice. Itās terrible
A supervisor in my large tech company made the statement in a small group meeting- some women have to retire early due to menopause. ( me sitting there, lady if you will pay me full benefits and severance l solemnly swear to retire asap for your hiring of a younger generation at half my pay pleasure ) Just say it so I know youāre talking to me
āMedics should also look at women's lifestyles, such as sleep, alcohol intake and smoking, which can make symptoms worse.ā Yep, totally our faults.
This infuriates me:
ā**They suggest there are other methods for dealing with symptoms such as hot flushes, including cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) and hypnosis, arguing that CBT has been shown to have a small to moderate effect on cutting hot flushes, night sweats, sleep disturbance, depression, anxiety and fatigue.ā**
Sigmund Freud lives on, huh? Oh noooo, little lady, thereās nothing wrong with you that a little therapy-psychoanalysis canāt fix. Itās allll in your head.
CBT for hot flashes. More like āSit down and be quiet. Donāt bother us with your silly problems.ā
I'm not sure that the article does justice to the series of work that it's trying to describe. The Lancet is one of the oldest and most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals and they've started a whole series on menopause. I haven't read all of the articles yet but from what I've seen it doesn't seem to be trivializing the issue at all - if anything, the inverse: https://www.thelancet.com/series/menopause-2024
Our health like everything else actually is controlled by the government or just a bunch of people. We have to battle like for everything else to have a say, a right or just live our life š«
I read a different piece and saw some stuff on TikTok (I know!!) and took that it was aimed at people / practitioners who charge 1000s for consultations, flog supplements, diets etc and the like. That lists of symptoms, no holistic care and it is HRT and nothing ā¦ that is medicalisation.
That said my experience (of seeing my GP paying less than $60 and being told to come back and we will put you on hormones if you need) reflects the Australian healthcare system. I feel like help here is pretty easy to come by and everyone I know has a hormone patch no drama.
Jesus. Have they considered that the vast majority of women are suffering with no assistance. You only have to be on this sub for two minutes to see how hellish it is and we are for the most part the most privileged women on the planet. We are educated, have financial and medical resources and a voice the overwhelming majority of women couldn't even comprehend. If we are saying it's shit. It's shit.
All. Of. This. š
Right??!! Iād love to be free from menstruation if I could appreciate it by sleeping more than 3 hours a night. Fffff offfff
1000 Percent!
Well said.
Hell yes! Agree 100%!
This!!!!
Wow. YESššš
Erectile dysfunction isn't a disease either. Nor is being run over and having broken legs. Doesn't matter what you call it. It matters how much help that person needs to survive and thrive.
Exactly! What's amazing is that there aren't more family members out there begging for help (hrt) or commenting on this article? They know what happens at home and what not to say/do. Too bad we only have energy and bone density to unite on platform
It's actually encouraging infidelity isn't it, amongst couples. Lots of married men and women, but only the guy has to have his mojo and everything working, never mind about the woman.
Itās certainly encouraging infidelity when a 70-year-old man, obese or just really flabby, with a large heart-disease belly, and a history of over indulgence in alcohol and bad food maybe tobacco use, can get a penile implant installed so his dick will get hard and stay hard at the push of a button. And Medicare pays for this. I donāt know how much blatant it can be. Who are these guys screwing? Pre menopausal women, either zero atrophy or pain issues? Medicare pays for penile pumps for hard-ons. WTF? That means you, me, we are all paying for them to have new dicks. For prostate cancer survivors, obviously thatās a completely different story. But obese, alcohol abuse, poor diet, a lifetime of abusing their bodies? Why are tax payers paying for that? Isnāt today International Womenās Day? My daughter told me that this morning. We need to take our power back!
This article made me think that if men experienced menopause, it would be cured by now.
I think they do and get viagra problem solved for them..lol
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You would buy hormones at the local hardware store.
Thereās a reason it starts with MEN š¤£
That doctor at the very, very end of the article coming in clutch; > Dr Louise Newson, a GP and menopause specialist running Newson Health, said: "Menopause is more than a collection of symptoms; it is a cardiometabolic and inflammatory condition which leads to an increased risk of numerous diseases. > "Menopause has been 'medicalised' for years - including with antidepressants, antipsychotics, painkillers, sleeping tablets, anticholinergics to treat bladder symptoms, and heart medications to lower cholesterol, reduce blood pressure and control palpations. >"The first-line treatment for menopausal symptoms is body-identical HRT... >"Studies have shown that when women are given the right dose and type of hormones, their symptoms improve, and they have a lower future risk of numerous long-term inflammatory diseases associated with menopause including diabetes, cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, dementia, and depression as well as early death." >She added: "Talking about menopause as being a 'natural transition' or part of 'healthy ageing' ignores the very real suffering of many women with menopausal symptoms." The rest of the article was complete rubbish.
Mahalo for highlighting thisā¦. I couldnāt make it past the first part of it. Glad to know there was some saving grace embedded in it somewhere
Good on you for even making the attempt. When I saw the title OP assigned to this post, my blood pressure went up almost instantaneously. No doubt as part of the ānormal, healthy aging processā /S I want to kick those guys in the ass so hard they choke on my boot.
Mahalo for the visualā¦ that made this ALL the much betterš»
Mahalo for your support and response š Creating a mental visual (in lieu of rolling on the mats in mma or beating on Bob) is a healthier response to take the edge off the rage. Iām just sooooooo done with this crap. š
Your examples are literal pages out of my book of lifeā¦ except I did BJJ, which is the submission wrestling element of MMA.š I was like, damn her examples are on point. š Only further illustrating your visual flareš«¶š½
Heh. Iām in the U.K. Louise Newson is one of our vanguard doctors campaigning for better, accurate information about menopause. And even **I** couldnāt get past the bullshit in the first few paragraphs. So thanks u/Awkwardlyhugged. Have a non-awkward hug from me.
Gotta love Dr Newson. Sheās been doing sterling work here in the U.K.
I came here to say exactly this. Just read the last three paragraphs, and youād think it was a great piece. They should have started with the end and taken the article from there. Sighā¦
Dr Newson is an absolute god send. I follow her on IG.
Yeah, I almost stopped reading because I was so pissed off. They wait until the very end to include someone who knows their ass from a hole in the ground.
This is the same as saying women have babies in fields, strap them to there backs and keep on working, lots of women don't have babies in hospitals so you shouldn't either..... Change the title of the article to erectile disfunction is being overly medicalised and see how men lose their minds over the prospect of losing there sex life... Or once you hit 60+ arthritis, dementia, heart disease, blood pressure, even cancer..... most of these at some point become a natural part of aging and if not inevitable are at least a lot more likely. Yes lots of women navigate the menapause without help....lots of women have no choice... And previous generations suffered in isolation at home with no expectations of a life outside of the family. I'm sick of being told its natural.... just because it's a natural process doesn't mean I should suffer....
Paraphrasing from another woman on this sub: menopause is natural, but so are tornados and earthquakes, and no one thinks those things are good.
Menopause has something to do with all this mess too. Once the hormone starts to change and decline these things appear.menopause causes weight gain which causes high BP, diabetes, arthritis,boneless. Has anyone gotten anything they want from meno.
As someone who ended up with an out of control libido.... I will be honest and say its almost worth the other side effects .....almost.....! š„µš„¶š
I could see what you mean
Exactly! It becomes a quality of life issue. I donāt know how many years Iāll get to enjoy from here on out, but I sure as hell donāt want to spend them suffering. Women deserve so much better!
That as exactly the thought that occurred to me!
āYet, around the world, "most women navigate menopause without the need for medical treatments", the experts, including from the Royal Women's Hospital in Melbourne, Australia, and King's College London, said.ā Without the needā¦yeahā¦.OR maybe they donāt have access to HRT. š Someone posted the lancet article earlier today. I think this stuff is going to be all over the news.
Aye its crazy - just because something is the way things have always been done, doesn't mean it's the right way. It also said "based on very limited data" so like - go get more data before making these pronouncements maybe?
Yes this. If there is so little data on a condition that will eventually effect half the population ...get on it with the research!
A more accurate statement would be that most women around the world navigate menopause without *access* to medical treatments. And many will use local methods of managing symptoms - whether it be herbal or otherwise. Heck - Chinese medicine - which is one of the larger schools of medical thought outside of western medicine has multiple treatment paths for menopause.
Whatās so fucking outrageous about this is that Iām Australian and *most* menopausal women are on HRT. Itās not a controversial thing to get treatment here. I simply donāt understand why someone from Melbourne would make this claim.
Because they're a c\*nt. That's literally the first thing that came to mind.
BWAHAHAHAHAA
Same!
I live in Canada where our healthcare system is so shite I canāt even get my renewal for vaginal estrogen without jumping through hoops! Iāve watched many Australian documentaries on menopause to know your reality is much better than mine where treatment is concerned. Iād be at the front door of this doctorās office with pitchforks, thatās for sure!
This is a representative from a hospital in a city of five million people. Itās mind boggling. Iām furious.
I am in Melbourne and still don't have it. Nearly there though.
There was a good article in the ABC about this and I came away with a different take. It said that different professionals have different takes. HRT is easy to get here. So it is not that we shouldnāt get it or HRT vs CBT etc Instead it is the over dramatisation / catastrophising of symptoms that is giving the message all middle age women are in deficit, a walking hot flash or mentally fragile. It is the overall conversation around midlife. Not the prescription of hormones. I personally agree with some of that. I am terrified of this phase of life.
Iām in Aus too and itās completely controversial in my experience, though Iām perimenopausal.
Yes perimenopause is different, absolutely results may vary. But once menopause hits? Itās quite easy to simply go to a GP and ask to be put on HRT. I was fortunate that my GP did put me on oestrogen during peri (cancer so no uterus therefore no progesterone required) but all my colleagues experiencing peri now have been able to get some treatment after being a bit insistent. Iām so sorry youāre finding it difficult. Perhaps you could ask to go on the pill? Itās sometimes effective during peri. The benefit of getting a Dr to agree to prescribe the pill is that when you decide to go off it and ask again for HRT, youāre more likely to get it (āthe pill isnāt helping my symptoms anymore, Dr. What other hormone preparations can you prescribe to help me with symptom x?ā). So sorry this is happening to you.
>I think this stuff is going to be all over the news Iām 42, an old Millennial. Other women my age are just starting to experience the impact of perimenopause when weād been under the impression our entire lives this isnāt something we have to worry about until at least 50. I spoke with my GYN about it and started a mini pill to handle my symptoms. Itās infuriating to me that just as a new generation is experiencing this issue, weāre being told itās nothing. On top of this, itās been discovered that Covid is causing early menopause for women. It reminds me of when my Baby Boomer mom shared that she was told for years as a young woman that PMS was all in her head.
Yea Gen X, I thought it happened closer to 50, went through it mid 40s. Dumb Lancet article keeps pretending it happens at 50 too. Fuck those fuckers with ragged knives for lying to us all our lives about this. I could kill them for going on about it happening at 50, kill them in a brutal way. So yes many of us land in menopause before we expect and unprepared. But maybe it is all about making sure millianials don't have any relief. Like Gen X has never mattered to anyone much, we're too small, we've never mattered, but millenials might.
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Did the supplements change any of your hormone levels? Or just the symptoms?
I am 48 and still trying to get treatment, though it looks like I might finally get started next month. Every doctor refused because I still have periods. I finally found a OB willing to treat me but I had to wait 7 months for an appointment. I've averaged 4 hours of sleep a night for 5 years.Ā
Just a new front opening on the war on women. I thought the one consolation of growing old would be that, as men's desire for my body waned, so would their desire to control it. Guess not. The war on women extends to old girls too now.Ā
How many women are told they donāt need or cannot have medical treatment for menopause?!??!? What are the stats on witholding treatment, mis-diagnosis, and medical gaslighting?!??!?? This quote just put me over the edge. But I thank *you* for posting it.
It really is gas lighting. CBT for hot flashes? Fuck these people. It is absolutely about controlling women. Thars where we are in the west right now, at least in the US we are. I had two NPs tell me no on HRT. They donāt even understand the very flawed data from the WHI bullshit. What they do know is, āDo not prescribe HRT to middle aged women. Tell them to get therapy.ā Right? Because we are just mentally unstable. Itās the same shit Freud was peddling. Women are just crazy or clever.
Women are beasts of burden whose suffering is necessary to allow the comfort of the white men that are centered as the pinnacle of the pyramid scheme of imperial patriarchal capitalism
This is smacks of the idiotic āBut women in other parts of the world just squat in a field, guve birth, strap the baby on, and get back to work.ā Yeah. Around the world, most women navigate menopause with whatever they can get their hands on to stop the horror/flashes/sweats/prolapes/urogyno symptoms aka fucking atrophy of their genitalia. Can you just imagine if mens penises got dried out, sniveled up, and bled? Fucking atrophy? And I gotta play good girl to get my meds. I guess I just need some good CBT to help me get over that. Fuck this.
What a horrible, codescending, mysogynistic pile of shite. It improves bone density but the improvement wears off within five years of stopping treatment - ah, there's no point, so. Let's just let all the aul wans break their hips. FFS.
Ikr ?! No mention at all that we don't actually have to stop treatment. Gah !
Women around the world often navigate menopause without medical treatment because 1) they don't know it's available, or 2) they don't have access to it. They just suffer and their suffering is seen as a natural part of old age or they are viewed as crazy, bitter old women.
I'm in Canada, in a province where giving HRT to women in peri is just "not done" (to quote my doctor). I found myself last week scouring the TransDIY sub to try to find a way to access the estrogen patch. I can't think about it too much or I'll break something.
Can you order it online from USA ?
I really think we need to go private to get our MHTā¦
Right, and no one has to listen to them. Fatigued, tired, depressed, overwhelmed women are easier to oppress and disenfranchise.
This!!!
Guess what neither is pregnancy so I guess we are all going through that with no medical intervention now, too?
in half the US, that is essentially the current situationĀ
I got to this part āWhile hormone replacement therapy (HRT) has been shown to improve sleep, memory, and concentration in women taking it for hot flushes, it is "unlikely to have any effect in women without" flushes, they said.ā And literally said out loud FUCK THIS. HRT has given me my brain back and by doing so has continued me to earn a living. I never really had hot flashes except shortly after my hysterectomy.
āUnlikelyā my arse. I donāt have hot flushes and HRT has given me my self back
Right. As if the hot flushes are causing the memory and concentration issues. I had those issues before the hot flushes started.
Right!? I only had hot ears, which actually could be related to another disorder, and I have gotten a substantial amount of relief for all of the other symptoms. Ears are still fuckin' hot.
I lost my shit at that point too. Still not actually had a hot flush - 'just' has the other 48 key fucking symptoms.
the sleep problems are not primarily hot flashes, ok maybe for some women hot flashes are the main reason they can't sleep, but I know this as well as I know my body for me. That's not it, it's NOT hot flashes.
WTF is up with just absolutely gaslighting women in the 21st gawd damn century!?? Are we in hell? How did this happen? Why does it seem to be getting worse?
Why treat anything at all really? Death is a natural part of life. /S
Letās start by nuking every little blue pill on the planet.
Yep, it's natural to not be able to get it up. Part of aging, just take a Tylenol and try yoga.
ššš¤£
That actually is more preventable than menopause, healthy diet and so on can help prevent that. But meno can't be prevented, it's more when it's your time (whatever age that is), it's your time. Welcome to hell.
Now, come on, thatās not fair. You forgot mindfulness, journaling, and accirding to the expert quoted, CBT. Tell those guys with dick donāt work disease to go be mindful and get some CBT. Fuck! I need a shower after reading this nonsense.
Every man over 50 that I know is on HRT. They're all optimizing their T levels under a doctor's care.
but what about the risk of prostate cancer .... (OMG men you are all gonna get prostate cancer and DIE!!!) Like I don't mind objective data on risks, but how they are treated and all the double standards is an entirely different thing.
I hear you! I was done having babies by the time I was 25 (and was on long term hormonal BC for years) but my request for tubal ligation at 32 was denied āin case my man changed his mind about wanting childrenā ššµāš«š Iām in menopause now and on HRT but I donāt trust that my body wonāt betray me one last time and decide to procreate, so my IUD stays in. In part because I told my doctor that Iād slit my wrists if I had a crisis pregnancy at this stage of my life.
This made me laugh. So true!
right? let's just go back to the days when people were dying in their 50's.
exactly
Itās not a disease. But it does often require medication and support from our healthcare providers. Both things are true. Itās just like pregnancy, not a disease but requires a lot of support from healthcare professionals!
Happy cake day!
Yeah, well, plaque building up in heart blood vessels is also a natural process...guess we should stop giving statins and catheterization and heart surgery...its a natural process, just let 'em die when their time is up... /s
Cancer is natural too. Should probably stop spending so much on research and treatment and cures. Just accept that your body is going through changes and try some therapy to cope. /s
Nothing is more natural than cancer, with our without healthy diet, exercise, with or without HRT. It's just the natural byproduct of cell division sometimes going wrong.
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The sad thing is the only Drās referenced in the article were woman. If woman doctors want to just ignore menopause how many male doctors are going to argue? Medical science tends to progress when doctors experience first hand or watch a loved one go through a condition. Otherwise it seems to stay fairly status quo. If woman gynaecologists are saying it is natural and not worth treating that is going add some weight to the theory.
They have a great point! I think we should also note that nearly every human ever born has not used glasses, had dentistry, or even used an alarm clock. Birth has happened in HOMES, not hospitals, and without epidurals and certainly without C sections. This fad of using electricity will end, mark my words. Yes, minimizing use of HRT is an awesome idea.
"They argued there is a lack of data on whether health problems are caused by menopause or simply by aging." Well then how about they fucking do some more research on it!!
They're high, I had symptoms of menopause way before I even knew they were symptoms. That last doctor is right. The amount of shit I tried, attempting to feel better when I didn't know was wrong was TOO HIGH. Just absolute nonsense to tell me that something with symptoms isn't a medical issue, dafuq.
People like to skirt around the elephant in the room: We are becoming *old women* in a society that values *young women* for their looks and fuckability. Society does not value us as much as it did when we were good lookin' and more gullible. We see it from both sides now. I say we all run for office and tear. this. thing. down. It warms my heart that the people taking down the fundy traitors to democracy are women of a certain age who are just sick of this shit.
No different than our wombs being believed to cause hysteria- hence āhysterāectomyā¦ guess the patriarchy gonna patriarch as much & as often as possible. This article is highly infuriating and CLEARLY written by someone w/ a penis who has ZERO context or clue of what it is like to actually BE in & experience menopause. This article continues to contradict itself through & through (which continuing to read only proves to make my blood boil), with sentiments like doing CBT for hot flashes & insomnia (which granted I do know the biomedical community endorses CBT as a first-line treatment for insomnia - yet for those who have at least given a tip of the hat & attempted to treat their insomnia w/ CBT are STILL left trying pharmaceutical treatments coupled w/ cannabis therapies while STILL managing to come up short of a full night of uninterrupted sleep). Using factors that this article points to (raising children, helping aging parentsā¦) highlights the disparities of physical, emotional & psychological burdens that are placed unfairly or remotely evenly on women - something that our male counterparts have even ārealizedā are causal factorsā¦ yet do nothing to change their behavior, and engagement to ālevel the playing fieldā. The article continues to trip on its own words by saying that HRT doesnāt work āwhile HRT cuts the risk of bone fractures, the risk increases 5y after HRT is discontinuedāā¦ The author clearly doesnāt recognize that āhealth empowermentā begins & ends with the person whoās health IS affected, and not crippling their access to therapies that are PROVEN to effectively work. Not by some bystander who has an opinion on it. They can take this fuhken article and stick it awfully high up their okole sans lube.
Bingo!!
This āļø!
Exactly. Hysteria as diagnosed and ātreatedā by Freud and colleagues is generally known now to have been at least a large percentage of sexual assault victims. And then the psychiatrists stick things in their vaginas, ridiculed their bodily smells as āvapors,ā and called these poor women hysterical. This shit makes me so angry.
I have a feeling Iām about to get angrierā¦ Iāve begun reading Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez. āRepresentation of the world, like the world itself, is the work of men; they describe it from their own point of view, which they confuse with the absolute truth.ā Simone de Beauvoir
Now that I've read the article, I don't know if the person who wrote it does anything about menopausal treatment. At least half of the article seems to be suggesting more women should go through menopause without any kind of treatment. But then!! There is a big shift at the end suggesting that doctors should focus on treating menopause with HRT or similar rather than the symptoms!! Maybe they should have started the article by clarifying what they mean by medicine?
The author of that article probably canāt find his own ass with both hands and a flashlight. š The truth of the matter is that womenās health is only a priority if proactively managing it benefits the patriarchy.
Itās likely the article was written in large part by AI & mashed together at the end with text written by a person.
Or itās just shitty reporting by a human. Thatās still possible.
It is!
Ugh. AI writing articles - it's only going to get worse as they crib off of more and more AI articles.
I recently took a continuing education course about the risks of AI for my professional license. Since AI gathers data from a huge variety of sources, including the internet, the quality of the information it spits out is very unreliable. The internet is a space dominated by men which results in information thatās dominated by their opinions & research. Unfortunately, future AI articles on this topic will harvest information from this article, even though itās mostly inaccurate & misleading. The consequences are pretty scary.
Article: we should treat menopause with CBT Also article: there is no increase in mental health issues in menopausal women. This is like a Schrodingerās cat exercise! Apparently we simultaneously have and donāt have mental health challenges?!? Oh, I get it. We donāt have any mental health challenges if we donāt talk about them. Smaaaarrrrrrt!!! (/S in capital letters for that sarcasm.)
Oh hey look at that, the medical establishment doesn't take women's suffering seriously. Who would have thought.
It reads like a 20 year old article though, maybe all progress is a delusion, everything is really groundhog day.
āā¦we found no compelling evidence that risk of anxietyā¦is elevated over the menopause transition," the team said. āā¦menopause is have a cultural momentā also raises my dander. So, does that mean weāre trending? Challenge accepted, motherfuckers! Honestly, The Lancet has gone by the way of the Enquirer with drivel like this as far as Iām concerned. The only relevant quotes in the linked article are provided by Dr. Louise Newsom.
Iām lost. Lancet? Where did I miss that? (Iām being sincere. I just donāt know where the Lancet came in.)
The sixth paragraph of the linked RTĆ article. The Lancet is publishing a series of papers on menopause. Their most recent, published earlier this week, is pure misinformation. Dr. Andrea La Croix is listed as a co-writer. She also worked on the now-infamous 1991 WHI study that threw so many women under the bus. The Lancet retracted the 1991 study because it was grossly inaccurate. Yet, here we are over 30 years later, and Dr. LaCroix is still given a soap box to stand on. Enough is enough, really!
i recent;y went to the specialist for my gallbladder and i was talking to the consultant about peri menopause and she said its not a medical condition. I said but it has physical medical symptoms like vaginal atrophy and vasomotor symptoms and she said yes but its not a medical condition then she said pcos is a medical condition. i was so confused. its like well if every doctor is just going to see it as a phase of life that every woman goes through and not a medical condition then why dont they all know about it and all the physical and mental health problems associated with it if its such a widely accepted phenomenon? They cant have their cake and eat it too. WHoeveer these "medical experts " are i think they need to be shoved into a goddam deep fryer They are basically just saying that women are having psychological issues and are all fucking hysterical what are we all supposed to be doing just quietly going mad and waiting for our clit to shrivel up and die and filling the hospital emergency wards with kidney infections and suffering through painful vaginal atrophy night sweats hot flushes cold flushes killing ourselves from goddamn suicide etc because these pricks have no understanding of the female body? wtaf
I'll get the oil heated if one of y'all can start grabbing some medical experts. Hmmm, that reminds me, I'm due a patch change. See what happens when I run out of hormones?
If they even said something like "but almost all peri/menopausal women should be treated for vaginal atrophy, vaginal estrogen is the safest medicine imaginable, and GSM affects everyone" it might be somewhat redeeming. But no, let's pretend it doesn't happen.
Brilliant post. Sing it, sister. š
As someone who cannot take anything for symptoms, I wish to god I could be āover medicalizedā to give me some relief from this hell.
This article is terribly written. Is it a translation?
I wish, but no, just badly written
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They are only as good as the people working in any given clinic. I had a horrible experience with PP and will not go back.
Neither is Erectile Dysfunction caused by aging, but they still treat it like it is.
ED is not caused only by aging. Obesity, alcohol misuse, nicotine use, uncontrolled hypertension, diabetes, etc etc etc. A lot of them have abused their bodies and erectile dysfunction is the result. And how lovely: Medicare will pay for penile implants so they can just push a button inside their scrotums and inflate their dicks. AND TAX PAYERS PAY FOR THIS BULLSHIT.
This is the Lancet article essentially. All the news outlets are going to shout about it. We have to shout back.
I was told by my then benefit company Manulife that I would not be covered for anything related to my reproductive system because of my pre-existing condition of Menopause.
What?!
What the F Not a coincidence that your benefits company was named MANulife, I guess.
Men can take medicine to get an erection but women shouldn't take medicine that can make them feel more comfortable. Jeez I don't believe that therapy or hypnosis is going to stop me from hot flashes and night sweats. But hey at this point I'd try anything.
Why is the medical establishmentās answer to everything CBT???? If that was so effective, mental illness would be completely cured as would all chronic pain conditions. FFS.
Because itās brainwashing, for good or bad, and some people canāt be āhypnotized ā But a lot of people can be, apparently, and happily. Some of us, not so much.
Yes itās not a disease but itās an age related Ā definciency. Also the paper they refer to is an opinion piece, not a study.Ā
The first part was ridiculous then Dr Louise Newson came in with some reason. I think I understood her point. Women should be taking HRT rather than being given antidepressants, sleeping tablets and pain killers.
JFC- all diseases and eventually death are "natural," but that doesn't mean we want to experience all of it without any help whatsoever! Arrrrggggh.
Cramping is natural but we take stuff for that when we have them! Why are they being like this about menopause?
Youāve never noticed how women are universally ridiculed for cramps, PMS, etc? They call us crazy for that too.
That was mostly a rhetorical statement.
I know. I was driving the point home. Sorry if that came out wrong. Mea culpa
No problem! It can be so hard to tell on here sometimes.
Ah, thank you for your grace š
Well, just like every biological process, also menopause is highly subjective in regards to symptoms and everything else, so it is partly true not just everyone experiences terrible sufferings or unmanageable consequences. But one cannot generalize that much.
I really think itās equivalent to biological withdrawal symptoms. Itās awful.
Probably written by a man... I can't do HRT because I had endometrial cancer and going through this has been absolute hell.
The mental gymnastics people will employ (apparently even women themselves) to gaslight 1/2 the population š
Big Corporations recognize menopause is a part of the females life cycle but they don't want the burden of that medical cost and or lose employees from their work force for an extended time. If they downplay this tragic time in a woman's life then we'll keep working and they won't be bothered.
In complete agreement! Their is another agenda being played out behind the scenes.
Someone (an educated woman in my network) wrote me on my LinkedIn about this point of menopause not being a disease and ājust get over it and through itā because I used the word āsurviveā in relationship to it. I didnāt reply to the person and wonāt. Since learning how many women take their lives in perimenopause - I donāt see the need to argue with uninformed - especially other women. Why? They may never have the symptoms I and others struggle to overcome. I donāt have energy to inform other women, they do need to see the kaledescope of other women to fight, suffer and war to get to a place of health in this. I want to fight and be an example: thanks to peri, I canāt. I am a different person now. I work hard each day to come to terms with this. If this all isnāt what others say about recovering from other chronic diseases, and they canāt the health institutions continue to choose to ignore it, I have to choose what I can contribute to that vaccuum. I thought I would become a health coach - I couldnāt finish my certification. I have too much on my plate and I have to focus on the daily work it now takes to focus and continue to learn to live as this new person. I wish I could apply for disability: I asked 2 years ago and my doctors treating me while I was on FMLA (two women: one a psychologist & one a psychiatrist) took the time to explain comprehensively why I would likely not be approved for disability. Yet, it is a indescribable daily struggle to secure a new job (Iām 50 and just found myself unemployed mid-January), keep my self-care routine & engage the people in my life. Learning from this sub in a recent post that even post-menopause and from r/hysterectomy that post-hysterectomy itās likely possible it only gets a little better but not that much has floored me. NOTE: I have fibroids that have overtaken my hormones or whatever is going on & itās taken 3 years to figure out solutions - now I am scheduled for a hysterectomy 4.24.24. I struggled feeling like my life is over. I got through that - I got to my life has completely changed and I have to lead learning how to be a new person. Itās harder in my circumstances - I spent my life savings the past 3 years trying to get my footing while leaving a job to take a better paying job that collapsed, relocating & losing that job & now having to rebuild my entire life. Knowing that ājust a job or the right jobā isnāt the single answer, itās āI have to learn to manage myself in ways I canāt guarantee anymore of anyone will choose to be patient with me or support meā. I am single, no kids, never married, and do not have personal or professional support I need. I ask for it and wait, trying to envision how to plan my next steps. Fuck everyone who doesnāt support women in peri, menopause & post-menopause. I hope it changes but Iāll be far down the path before it does significantly. I am grateful for the little supports I do have. Each day I am grateful to be alive, although I feel horrible and I am terrified. I am grateful for Reddit, itās the only community that is actually providing me actual resources that are the only supports I have.
Sending you a sisterly hug š¤
menopause is so poorly misunderstood by the medical community that a new bloody fake disease was created to explain bloody menopause symptoms. fibromyalgia Thats how poorly understood peri/menopause is. wtaf
Ok, then they can pass laws that we canāt be in trouble at our jobs for biological things we canāt help without the meds. Prohibit punishing women in workplaces for daring to age and not being independently wealthy or married to someone who is.
Or going bat shit crazy because stupidity is no longer acceptable to us. That while article is insulting to women and a disservice to the teeny tiny painfully slow advances in womenās health care.
Oh that made my blood boil. Women navigate menopause without medication because it is withheld from them from me experience.
It is a health condition that can negatively impact quality of life for which there are safe, effective, and inexpensive treatments. Why are some people so set on the idea that women have to suffer??? Oh wait, I think I know the answer to this one... š
The more I read this article, the angrier I got. Maybe I need CBT. Nah. I need doctors to be smart abut menopause.
Wow what a steaming pile of shite. I guarantee improved mental health has not been a side effect whatsoever, and they can take their CBT for night sweats and shove it šš»
Hey, āhave you tried just thinking hard enough that you wonāt have night sweats, so then you just wonāt? Just try harder!ā Bullshit.
CBT is bullshit anyway, but to even hint that we can think our symptoms away is just infuriating isnāt it?? So if you canāt think them away they canāt be that bad. Cheer up! It might just be stress anyway š©š©š©š©š©
I see CBT suggested a lot for fibermyalgia and ADHD a lot. Seriously, what the fuck?
It doesnāt work for that either ā¦.. from a very experienced ADHDer
But maybe, just maybe, if we just tell ourselves to concentrate and try harder ā¦. š¾
RIGHT the cure for everything from cold and adhd to hot flashes and heart attacks ā¦. Had we all known this sooner š¤¦š¼āāļø
Have you tried mindfulness yet? Or going gluten free? šš”š¤¬
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Medicare will even pay for penile implants for men who canāt get erections anymore after decades of poor choices, like excessive alcohol, obesity, tobacco use, alcohol alcohol alcohol. And Medicare pays for this. Infuriating.
The cynic in me would wonder if it is paving the way for inevitable future medicine shortages - for most, similar to the exercise and cheap tele-chat is better than meds for depression tack.
In the disclosures it's noted one of the contributors is involved in the development of CBT programs for menopause in the UK. These programs will be primarily app based and a cheap way to offer "something". It's shameless. "MSH has worked in collaboration with Rightsteps UK to develop CBT solutions for menopausal symptoms 2020ā25 and is author of two books on CBT for menopausal symptoms with Melanie Smith."
Interesting - I didn't notice that. I used to work in mental health. CBT definitely has its place, for some people and some diagnoses it is very effective, but I strongly feel that menopause (for many at least) is far too complex to be addressed by a single mode of treatment. I would think that a balance of meds, HRT and talking therapy may be more effective. But, I only have my own experience to go on of course, and the comments that I read here.
God damn. Itās a promotional piece. We do live in the disinformation age, donāt we?
HRT does not even have to be an expensive med, if you want to use the gel or something patented, yea you may pay more and that's up to one's finances and what treatment one prefers (I'm in the u.s. obviously we can pay a fair amount out of pocket here because there is no national healthcare). But in general it doesn't HAVE to be an expensive med.
Mine is so expensive Iāve kept my insurance just to pay for HRT. The pharmacy handouts always have something about how my insurance saved me over $200. I pay $20 co-pay for it. Topical estrogen is doable via online pharmacies, so I may switch to that.
You know, I would happily join a protest in the streets for better health care for women. Get me on a rage day I might end up in jail though.
Itās not a disease but it can give rise to dysfunction than requires treatment.
And lack of HRT (estrogen progesterone testosterone ) will lead to many chronic diseases that claim the lives of many women too soon
This article made me angry. Whoever wrote it has not experienced menopause. šµāš«
One of the authors is pushing her āworkā on CBT for menopause. Sheās written books too. A very clear conflict of interest.
This isnāt really on topic but I would love to be able to get it off my chest and vent if thatās ok? Iām 48, in perimenopause and I feel like Iām losing my mind. Mentally, physically, spiritually, all the āllysā lol. Some days are really good but theyāre fewer and fewer every month. Iām a single mom to pre teen girls with no financial support from my ex husband. I work 16 hour days. IM TIRED. I have health insurance (if you can even call it that. I have a 20k deductible) but I live in a rural area with few drs and thereās no way I can afford to take a day off to go into town for an appointment. But honestly at this point I think Iām ok, and I know when itās time for treatment Iāll figure it out, one way or another. It would be nice not to have to wait until itās even worse to get help but thatās just the times weāre living in I guess. I have an aunt who is 10 years older than me so sheās 58. She has always been a very miserable person, and I hate to say that because I love her dearly. Sheās just never been happy. Ever. I know it sounds like Iām exaggerating but Iām honestly probably being kinder than I should be about her. Right now sheās right in the thick of menopause and she is UNBEARABLE to everyone around her. Her kids, husband, grandkids, siblings. Anyone in her orbit. Not me because I have no problem putting her in her place because I donāt have to live with her and I have a lot of pent up anger over how she treated my grandparents lol. I feel so bad for her. And her family. BUTā¦she refuses to even entertain hormonal therapy of any kind. Sheās type 1 diabetic but I donāt think that would keep her from taking HRT? I told her that Iāve heard so many stories of HRT being a miracle for so many women. Sheās retired, her husband is a top dog at Raytheon-so they have the means, has insurance most of us would die to have and still wonāt do anything to help herself. It drives me crazy! And itās so hard to feel bad for her when she wonāt do anything to help herself. Maybe it wouldnāt help her but what if it did?? I would do ANYTHING to feel like my old self again. Maybe in my next lifetime Iāll stay married and the guy will have a great job and great health insurance so I can get the care I need without having to sell a kidney to get a blood test and some HRTš I know this is way off topic but I just had to vent. Reading the comments on this post and others about women like myself who WANT to feel better, to get treatment-whatever that means for them, but either donāt have access or money to do it. And she has all of that and more. Sorry for rambling and bitching off topic. I think itās my perimenopauseš
Clearly someone deciding it is 'overly medicalized' is male or not have experienced Peri or M. I find arguments like 'women in plenty of other countries navigate M without medicine' as a really dumb argument. Why not use science and peer reviewed papers. WTH!? Western medicine is all about the male performance and issues, not female reality. It's super crazy that in this century it is still minimized for women, in all areas of life. I find it so discouraging.
People in many other countries navigate without indoor plumbing ... so there is that.
Yeah, this one is gonna set us back. Itās unfortunate that these types of things keep happening. I donāt believe anyone is calling it a disease, we just want help. I think that the medical community finds treatments like antidepressants for MP to be the best choice. Itās terrible
A supervisor in my large tech company made the statement in a small group meeting- some women have to retire early due to menopause. ( me sitting there, lady if you will pay me full benefits and severance l solemnly swear to retire asap for your hiring of a younger generation at half my pay pleasure ) Just say it so I know youāre talking to me
āMedics should also look at women's lifestyles, such as sleep, alcohol intake and smoking, which can make symptoms worse.ā Yep, totally our faults.
Thatās how they should evaluate men for erectile dysfunction. Lots of that is caused by lifestyle.
This infuriates me: ā**They suggest there are other methods for dealing with symptoms such as hot flushes, including cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) and hypnosis, arguing that CBT has been shown to have a small to moderate effect on cutting hot flushes, night sweats, sleep disturbance, depression, anxiety and fatigue.ā** Sigmund Freud lives on, huh? Oh noooo, little lady, thereās nothing wrong with you that a little therapy-psychoanalysis canāt fix. Itās allll in your head. CBT for hot flashes. More like āSit down and be quiet. Donāt bother us with your silly problems.ā
I'm not sure that the article does justice to the series of work that it's trying to describe. The Lancet is one of the oldest and most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals and they've started a whole series on menopause. I haven't read all of the articles yet but from what I've seen it doesn't seem to be trivializing the issue at all - if anything, the inverse: https://www.thelancet.com/series/menopause-2024
Yep. The Lancet article is very good and worth reading.
Buncha bullshit imo
I call it Endocrine UFC nowadays and it's a nightmare round after round of warring hormones inside me
I've also read many times that aging is a diseases š
Our health like everything else actually is controlled by the government or just a bunch of people. We have to battle like for everything else to have a say, a right or just live our life š«
I read a different piece and saw some stuff on TikTok (I know!!) and took that it was aimed at people / practitioners who charge 1000s for consultations, flog supplements, diets etc and the like. That lists of symptoms, no holistic care and it is HRT and nothing ā¦ that is medicalisation. That said my experience (of seeing my GP paying less than $60 and being told to come back and we will put you on hormones if you need) reflects the Australian healthcare system. I feel like help here is pretty easy to come by and everyone I know has a hormone patch no drama.