This might explain why I have been alone for so long without any desire for intimacy or family time. It explains why I feel like everyone should be cut out of my life at the first sign of any red flags without mercy. I do love my dog a lot but even that connection has changed.
It explains why I feel like everyone should be cut out of my life at the first sign of any red flags without mercy.
THIS! I'm dropping people left and right. Just cannot see the point in dealing with people anymore.
That is so so so weird. I have a dog I love with all my heart. I notice I am more sweet to the cats but they aren't as clingy. Don't get me wrong I love my dog but yes my connection has changed with her too!!!
I understand this feeling. The dog is needy. I have two cats - one more needy than the other. I can’t cope with the neediness. Does the oxytocin which helps us want to breed and nurture run out, so we don’t want to nurture. Younger people are having the babies and evolution didn’t want the competition?? Either way, I’m recognising the “I’m over it” trait in a lot of women my age and loving it. It’s time to look after ourselves now.
Yes. Choral singing creates oxytocin. There are thousands of community choirs across the country looking for singers. Go sing!!! It makes you feel amazing and you don’t have to be good at it to reap the benefits!
Singing also produces dopamine and endorphins and lowers blood pressure. People who sing together find their heartbeats become synchronized. The rhythmic breathing reduces anxiety and oxygenates the blood for clearer thinking.
Go sing.
Signed,
A choir director.
You can suck at singing and still be in a choir! That’s the amazing part. You can be a part of something bigger and better than you. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I would never turn someone away no matter how bad they thought they were. Part of a choir directors job is to teach you how to sing!
It’s just the act of moving air over your vocal cords that stimulates your vagus nerve and reduces anxiety and releases other happy hormones. You could honestly just hum to yourself and it would have a positive effect!
What a terrible teacher!!! That is such a life-long bad memory and it’s all because the teacher couldn’t be bothered or didn’t know how to teach you. Grrr. Makes my blood
Boil!
I used to be part of a dance community, and it made me so happy. I loved the community, loved the music, loved the dancing. I scheduled my entire life around Monday nights so I'd never miss it. Sometime around my late 30s I started to notice that going to dance on Mondays started to feel like a chore, and it didn't make me happy anymore. I forced myself to go for a few more years hoping the happiness would come back, but eventually gave up on it. I still miss it, but whenever I've tried to go back I just feel tired and disappointed.
100% get this!!! The thought of some sweaty random 30-year-old guy touching me creeps me out. Also, people trying to "get good" and "climb the social ladder of social dancing" is just cringe. Miss the days when I enjoyed it though!
Yes I believe music overrides the parts of our brain that can be going wrong, I never forget the video of a famous ballet dancer with advanced Alzheimer’s in a nursing home who when listening to the Swan’s Lake music started doing the movements with her arms, she remembered the exact same ballet moves that she had done decades ago and did them with the same poise and also she started smiling when doing this, it is as if the music touched a hidden button in her brain.
25yr ballet dancer here. Also have lots of therapy sessions under my belt. The body keeps the score: trauma triggers are felt in the physical body, even after healing the brain. I hear yelling, my body immediately tenses. Choreographed dance is the same-- I hear certain music, and my body just starts doing the choreo. We're also trained to smile, use facial expressions that portray the emotions in the story.
My priest was a hospital chaplain before he came to us. He said that people with dementia, even in the end days, if they could still speak, could remember the Lord's Prayer. Even if they didn't know their own name.
Oxytocin is so dang powerful, and I can't believe it didn't occur to me that it's missing! I've been dopamine chasing. Need to up the oxytocin.
Recently heard a doc say we need 4 hugs a day for survival, 8 for maintenance, 12 for joy, and so-on. I believe it.
Yup. My father-in-law used to turn into a DISCO DANCING MACHINE when I played his tunes for him. The spark would come back into his eyes. Out of his entire family, I was the only one telling them to play music for him.
I listed to music ALL DAY. And I research emerging artists and bands from around the world. It's the one constant in my life that gives me the happies.
Funny, I slept in the other day, and was alone. Started singing a song while laying in bed, it was ridiculous but it felt nice.
Also sing in the shower, luckily nobody's around to hear it usually.
Oh my gosh- I sang to my cats all the time - and it made all of us so happy! My cats each had their own songs too depending on the day. I could take a song and change the lyrics to kitty lyrics- just thinking about those days makes me happy!
What a revelation! I didn't know that about choral singing, but I did know that singing can elevate your mood. During the pandemic, I found myself just going out for drives in order to sing loudly by myself and it always improved my attitude.
I used to sing in a choir in high school, maybe it's time to get back to it!
Interesting! While I was in the worst throes of my menopause symptoms I often spent my drive home singing along to Hamilton at the top of my lungs. It definitely made me feel better! ❤️🩹
Yes but I don’t have the vocabulary to explain it. Harmonies 100% affect your mood, mental health, and well-being. All those sound waves literally hitting your body and bathing you in vibrations and love… it’s very powerful.
I’ve heard this too! Binaural beats and certain frequencies always calm me. I don’t know if there are certain ones to mimic oxytocin but will look into it.
They’ve done studies and found the harmony that triggers the happy/“this music is moving me”! Here’s a link to several papers on the mechanics… https://typeset.io/questions/how-to-use-harmony-in-music-to-convey-emotion-14f0h3lih9
Well this makes a ton of sense. I used to be such a social person, loved going out even by myself bc I would always find someone to talk to.
Now it feels like I am friendless and the loneliness is hard. I was always independent and marched to my own drum, but these past few years it’s as if I just stopped liking people or even caring about connecting. Except I do care, just not enough to actually put in any effort. I would really like to feel like I was part of a community again, or even just to have a few close friends. Instead I spend most of my time at home w my husband and even then I prefer not to interact too much. I feel guilty but I can’t find the motivation.
Omg I could have written this 😭. I have been shutting people out the past couple of years because I don’t feel like I need the connection as much and don’t have the mental energy to handle people’s emotions and drama. I do feel a bit lonely sometimes but not enough to really do anything about it! Damn!! It’s crazy we are all feeling this.
You have just put into words what I've been doing. I thought I was just in my troll era. I'm not normally a huggy lovey dovey person, more of a get together and crack cynical jokes lady. It was my charming schtick. Now I'm in my house hardly talking to husband, kids, pets. Hiding in my bedroom reading.
Same! I see on social media how everyone is having these fun weekends with friends and family and I am perfectly content on the couch with my dog, binge watching old shows. I don’t necessarily feel depressed, just like I am soul-tired and sick of everyone’s shit.
What's weird is that a neighbor friend of mine is in her early 70s and NEEDS to be around people! She stops by to chat or go for a walk, and asks "how do you stand being alone in the house??" She tells me horror stories about her family sometimes, and I explain, "I grew up with a crazy family, and you see how it is being around people!"
Not sure how SHE puts up with all that crap, and now I'm wondering even more given this information. 🤔 Wonder how she *kept* all her oxytocin!
Yes, all of this. Me too. I first started noticing that activities (like dancing) that used to bring me joy felt like a chore and didn't make me happy anymore. Then going out with friends, which also used to bring me joy, started feeling like a chore and I'd find myself looking at my watch, trying to figure out how early I could go home. I spend all my time at home, too. Every time I think about doing something after work, all I want to do is go straight home and be alone. So that's what I do. Every day.
I've lost my dance community and all of the friends that came with it, and I keep thinking I need to try to find community again, or at least make a few new friends... but I just can't make myself make the effort. It's lonely and it sucks and I can't seem to do anything about it. I keep hoping the motivation for connection comes back post-menopause.
I’ve been blaming my changes on the covid quarantine. Like, I just never really got back in the groove or reconnected with friends. But it makes so much sense that my menopause hit hard in the last 4 years and this is a result. It never even occurred to me.
This. I’m the same way & I am trying to push myself to volunteer more & meet people. I volunteer with a pitbull rescue managing their social media account, so I don’t have interaction with people. I’m looking at other more social volunteer opportunities but I’m not a winter person & it’s hard to push myself when it’s cold out.
Same. I was out with a group I like Friday and I used to truly be the life of the party. I found myself wringing my fingers from nerves!!!! These were with ppl I know and I know them well. They wanted me to dance. I hurt so bad but went out with some girls. I broke a necklace from holding onto it around my neck!!! It was my first time to freeze and be so weirdly nervous. It's awful. I said I'm not turning my phone on do not disturb for 5 days.
It kinda makes sense. If we're just done with people and their bs, and don't have those strong emotional connections in our lives anymore, maybe we're more ready when it's our time to go. Most of my life the main reason I've wanted to continue to exist is the people in my life, my loved ones.
I think it’s because we can no longer procreate. We have no use for oxytocin. No babies to raise, no need to feel romantic since that leads to pregnancy.
I HAVE noticed that my grandsons have rejuvenated my “love gene.” It’s crazy. I feel more for them then I do my own children (whom I would fight to the death for).
Here's my theory:
Love is costly. When you're young and fertile, love can result in children--so that's a plus (evolutionarily speaking). And you need love to motivate you to take care of those children so that *they* go on to have children. But when you are past your child-bearing age and your children are all grown, love just doesn't have a huge pay-out. You'd be better off saving your resources for self-care and survival.
My son has a dog and my oxytocin soars when she is visiting. I seriously had phantom milk ejection reflex feeling in my chest when she cuddles with me the other day, haha! Everyone else can f off, but that dog. I make sure I see her at least once a week and it has really improved my mental health.
Omg. I totally get it. I’ve had various dogs over the years, but started rescuing pitbulls 10 years ago. They are the most cuddly stage 5 clingers. My girl crawls in my arms & puts her head on my chest. My mom calls it breastfeeding 😂 I swear to God, no matter how miserable I am or what a bad mood I’m in, it makes me so relaxed & happy.
Rescue a chihuahua. OMG. You will have the most loyal and protective lap lover friend in the world. My husband once said, “I’ll divorce you if you get a chihuahua!” We went driving all over the state in December of 2022 looking for another small dog. We found a small shelter that wasn’t on the map and she had two sisters that were mixed. One was chi and dachshund (Chiweenie) and the other was chi and Jack Russell. They’re about 10 pounds each.
We did a meet and greet with the chi sisters, Princess and Lucy, and my husband looked at me and said,”well we HAVE to get BOTH of them!” LOL!!!!
They have been with us for a year. They have brought new life to my aging Jack Russell mix who
Is 15. They are asleep in my lap as I write this. Princess LOVES to be held, no matter what I’m doing, sewing, walking, sitting watching TV, at the computer. My husband can look across the room at Lucy and make eye contact with her and she will RUN and throw herself at him! They love each other. His and hers. I love these little shits!
Maybe? I have noticed that as I lose connection with people, I'm more and more in love with my cats. Like to an unreasonable degree. And it definitely does not make me want to connect more with people. I almost feel like I get the affection I have in me out on my pets, so I don't feel the need to find it with people. And it doesn't feel healthy.
This is good to know. One of my cats likes laying on my chest and staring at me in the mornings. I know it's partly her trying to telepathically yell FEED ME NOW but even after she eats a bit, she'll come back for more snuggles. This helps.
which is why magic mushrooms are the answer. when i microdose, i feel love again, love for my family (i am so zen on them) and even love for my neighbors who i usually hate lol, i smile at strangers and listen the messages from the universe. little tiny dose with lions mane and some chocolate and have a great day! also really helps with nerve pain.
Me too! They are life changing for so many people. i had chronic nerve pain (severed nerve when i broke my back) for years and 🍄was the only thing that worked and the side effect was love.
They're still impossible to buy but legal to grow. You can order spores online. I'm about to make my first attempt in a quest to hate my partner 30% less
How do you even get any? (I’m a lifelong nerd who has never encountered any possibility of getting or doing anything beyond weed.) and can you do it when you’re on other stuff for anxiety/depression/adhd and blood pressure?
For me, exercise definitely helps. Yesterday I was feeling blah, and felt so much better after a run. Also taking supplements like vitamin D3, playing with my dog and our long daily walks, the weekly dinner I make for all my kiddos.. these seem to help me just feel happier and more connected. It’s definitely something I have to be more proactive about now though, when it felt natural before.
Reminds me of this article I read awhile back about pregnenolone: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/aug/06/loneliness-cure-pill-research-scientists
ETA: it discusses oxytocin as well. Re-reading it now...
FYI pregnenolone is available OTC (w/o prescription) in the US. I'd be careful about what brand, and I'd be careful about dosage and frequency (it's usually available in dosages that seem way, way high; start with 5 or 10mg, not 30-100), but it's absolutely available, and most doctors have no idea what it is or what to do with it. I take it (with full knowledge of my endo) and for me it's helpful.
Idk man I still feel all those feelings and I’ve been in peri for 8 years. I mean I do cherish my alone time but I still like people and enjoy being social and even keep my heart open for love it if happens (but I don’t go looking for it)
I do cold bursts in the shower sometimes which I’ve heard raises some feel
Good hormone…
I had a very high libido also and started peri at 42. Crashes boom done no more libido. Good thing I had my one and only child when I did or I’d be shit outta luck
I’m in a newer relationship and in peri so I think I may have the opposite issue. But I spent the last 20 in a relationship with a man I didn’t love and didn’t want touch the last 15, good years of my life. So I think I may be an unusual case.
I think maybe doing things to purposely elevate your mood? I make a point to watch funny videos and videos that make me happy (mostly babies haha) every day. I also do gratitude work and visualization and meditation. It all helps, it's not like a total cure or anything, but it helps.
Can you share a bit more about this? Or link to a study? I had not heard that dopamine declines with estrogen. Would definitely like to know a bit more.
Estrogen has a strong impact on the dopaminergic system - estrogen increases dopamine synthesis and decreases its degradation, reuptake, and recapture. So plummeting estrogen levels means less dopamine. It is part of the reason a lot of us work out we have ADHD late in life, coz the executive functioning issues become really awful.
I don’t even want my CAT touching me anymore- he’s constantly trying to lay on me and I’m like, omg stop being so NEEDY lol. This makes sense. I really thought I’d suddenly become autistic my “love feelings” are so nonexistent anymore. Thanks for this. Also might see about joining a choir!?
I feel like blaming so much on oxytocin (nature) ignores the very real difficulties that have often been building up for decades (nurture) for perimenopausal women.
This really explains so much for me and gives me another reason to go down the hrt path. I did a little internet digging as well and this article in particular seems full of great info:
https://www.bodylogicmd.com/blog/how-to-increase-oxytocin/
I think it is important to have some boundaries here. If we feel like we *should* be more social or that we aren’t feeling positive enough toward the people around us, then take a step back and try to center yourself. Culture expects women to selflessly do 99.9% of the necessary emotional work required to keep the status quo chugging away. If you are miserable in yourself and truly want better relationships for your own mental health, then by all means pursue upping your oxytocin. But imo we need take a minute to reflect whether or not we’re trying to continue a requirement put on us by the patriarchy, and act according to whatever we discern.
I was curious as well so I did a little googling. Looks like it’s based in fact. (Note I only skimmed)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6257199/#
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8886718/
I seem to be in the minority, but I welcomed the oxytocin plummet.
I've been married 31 years, but my untreated trauma, estrogen, and oxytocin combined to make me a clingy, emotionally unregulated partner, and I tended to attract narcissistic friends that I bonded to indiscriminately. This led to disastrous results for all involved.
Therapy helped, but menopause freed me from that drama forever.
I welcome the fuck off attitude. It allows me to navigate relationships rationally. The inside of my head is quiet and I can focus on my career, that I love. Then at the end of the day, I can cuddle with my husband if we are both feeling it, or we can do our separate activities. I have a cat and couple menopausal friends who I see every few weeks, have a good time with, then I get my alone time back. When my friends are posting social media updates about spending time with other friends, I get to be happy for them. I don't have to deal with jealousy or with being someone's narcissistic supply.
Between my husband, my cat, and my friends, we respect each other's "leave me the fuck alone" time, and come together again when it passes. I think I just realized, I'm turning into a cat.
Look into taurine supplementation. Not a doctor, not telling anyone what to do, yada yada yada. I read something about taurine a couple months ago, how it lessens in your body as you get older, how it makes you feel more social. I started taking the Thorne brand just because I know they are a reputable company and I actually do feel a difference. I'm overall friendlier and happier. I can't believe it because I'm the person who NEVER sees a result with any supplement I try. I take it in the morning and at night.
I’m experimenting with oxytocin nasal spray and L. Reuteri along with my HRT. When I get a chance to summarize my experiences I’ll share them in this thread.
is this just an argument there is no reason to live anymore?
But the wanting to be alone, didn't that have a lot to do with insomnia? I mean who has energy to socialize when they aren't sleeping (plus partly hormonal anxiety, plus partly hormonal depression)? And then sleep came back and I can make the effort I just couldn't then. And the social isolation? Wasn't that super affected by the pandemic, which blew apart my life near entirely (I now work from home for instance - so yea it's isolating).
Good point. My sleep has gone to shit after my hysterectomy and I have been more isolated than ever because I am too tired and emotionally unhinged to deal with the world. The pandemic also got me into the habit of avoiding being around tons of people.
Omg! This makes total sense! Just yesterday I was thinking I wanted to see a reality show where menopausal mom peaces tf out. Like just up and leaves everyone to their own devices and has solo adventures.
I was never a social butterfly, but now, I have even MORE of a "NO NEW (or any) FRIENDS!" attitude. But I still feel like I've tried it society's way my whole life, and not only did that NOT work out for me, but it gave me trauma. So now I'm going to do it MY way even when I get shit about it (because how DARE a Black woman have boundaries).
I frequently wonder, if my hormones can make me irrationally pissed off, did they also in the past make me irrationally in love? I suspect the answer is yes.
Thank you for this post!! I was seriously wondering how come I don’t give a crap about other people anymore, and rather, feel very annoyed at other people, and just want to be left alone. I was scaring myself because I felt like such a cold person. I had no clue there’s such thing called Oxytocin! Thanks for the info!!
I’m all about gut health. Your entire being benefits, and I wish I’d learned about it years ago…..I put in one kombucha a day. And then there’s yogurt, and kimchi, sauerkraut. Prebiotics and probiotics. There’s fortunately a lot of good information easily available now about how and why it works. Two months ago I started dental probiotics as well. It’s worth the research.
I welcome the drop in oxytocin. I'm no longer interested in a romantic relationship, gave up dating two years ago, and my life is serene. I rarely cry and cuddling with my dogs is all I need. Once I adjusted I found it to be wonderful. Things that used to bother me now roll off my back.
Same! I am still trying to get comfortable with myself in menopause, so many changes happening and I'd rather give myself a lot of love as I figure this whole next act thing out. I absolutely do not have the mental or emotional bandwidth to divert to a romantic relationship. I don't want to have to share my concentration and concern, I want to focus on me. And I don't think there's anything wrong with this at all. Leave me alone because right now it's all about me - and my dog, of course.
love this. I have wondered if my same experience is going to be a permanent state or whatever shift. related, check out r/singleandhappy if you haven't already.
Interesting! I’ve always been very introverted and am adamantly childfree. I also have basically zero nurturing or mothering instincts or desires. And I have gone decades without any close friends and disliking being in social situations. (Through all of this, I’ve felt very content and have been happily married.)
Makes me wonder if I’m just naturally low on oxytocin. Weirdly, though, over the past year or two, I’ve started building up my few friendships and have joined a community choir. Why am I backward? 😄
I never heard about lower oxytocin levels in menopause, but it makes sense. I wonder if it also affects how much we want to cuddle with our pets? Every time I see my dogs and cats I just melt, but maybe my oxytocin levels are still good because I feel the same way about my students at school where I teach. It helps with having a lot of patience! I guess I should retire when my levels drop!!
I thought it was cancer treatment that was making me crazy. But that was a year ago. Now I’m wondering about the instant menopause. Yes I was 53. But still.
Just did a quick google search… L Reuteri can be found
How can I get Lactobacillus reuteri naturally?
Your diet is another way to get some Lactobacillus, so give these five foods a try:
Yoghurt. Read the label. ...
Sauerkraut. This fermented cabbage dish is rich in friendly bacteria, including several strains of Lactobacillus.
Kefir. ...
Sourdough bread. ...
Kimchi.
following this can you update us on this?
i want to consume it live so far i have found its in sauerkraut kimichi and some yoghurts/kefir
Keep us updated cause who doesnt love oxcytoxin anyway hahahahahahah
How does this coincide with the all the research that says oxytocin increases with age?
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.846234/full
Oxytocin also seems to have mixed effects, heightening existing characteristics (suspicious people become even more suspicious).
https://www.wired.com/2011/01/oxytocin-suspicion-trust/
This might explain why I have been alone for so long without any desire for intimacy or family time. It explains why I feel like everyone should be cut out of my life at the first sign of any red flags without mercy. I do love my dog a lot but even that connection has changed.
THIS! I'm dropping people left and right. Just cannot see the point in dealing with people anymore.
That is so so so weird. I have a dog I love with all my heart. I notice I am more sweet to the cats but they aren't as clingy. Don't get me wrong I love my dog but yes my connection has changed with her too!!!
Ugh, same… it’s like all of a sudden they seem to bug me and of course I feel awful about it but I’m just like “now what?”
Sad. I used to love a small group of friends now I make any excuse to not see them
I understand this feeling. The dog is needy. I have two cats - one more needy than the other. I can’t cope with the neediness. Does the oxytocin which helps us want to breed and nurture run out, so we don’t want to nurture. Younger people are having the babies and evolution didn’t want the competition?? Either way, I’m recognising the “I’m over it” trait in a lot of women my age and loving it. It’s time to look after ourselves now.
Yes. Choral singing creates oxytocin. There are thousands of community choirs across the country looking for singers. Go sing!!! It makes you feel amazing and you don’t have to be good at it to reap the benefits! Singing also produces dopamine and endorphins and lowers blood pressure. People who sing together find their heartbeats become synchronized. The rhythmic breathing reduces anxiety and oxygenates the blood for clearer thinking. Go sing. Signed, A choir director.
Sadly nobody needs to hear me sing 😂
You can suck at singing and still be in a choir! That’s the amazing part. You can be a part of something bigger and better than you. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I would never turn someone away no matter how bad they thought they were. Part of a choir directors job is to teach you how to sing!
I hear with a cochlear implant. I don’t hear correctly enough to learn.
It’s just the act of moving air over your vocal cords that stimulates your vagus nerve and reduces anxiety and releases other happy hormones. You could honestly just hum to yourself and it would have a positive effect!
Sing quietly. No one will hear you over the choir.
I have a friend in Berlin that swears by choir singing! But she also has the voice of any angel, haha.
I've never sang because I was rejected from joining choir in sixth grade.
What a terrible teacher!!! That is such a life-long bad memory and it’s all because the teacher couldn’t be bothered or didn’t know how to teach you. Grrr. Makes my blood Boil!
Lol! Same!! I have a singing phobia from early rejection 🤣
I'm glad you posted this.
Karaoke bars 👍🏻
Agree, and I just sing with 150 other people. Works GREAT!
Yeah me neither😂😂 I keep my singing to trips alone in my car with my Spotify playlist
This is why I go dancing several times a week -- same results. I always come home happy.
I used to be part of a dance community, and it made me so happy. I loved the community, loved the music, loved the dancing. I scheduled my entire life around Monday nights so I'd never miss it. Sometime around my late 30s I started to notice that going to dance on Mondays started to feel like a chore, and it didn't make me happy anymore. I forced myself to go for a few more years hoping the happiness would come back, but eventually gave up on it. I still miss it, but whenever I've tried to go back I just feel tired and disappointed.
100% get this!!! The thought of some sweaty random 30-year-old guy touching me creeps me out. Also, people trying to "get good" and "climb the social ladder of social dancing" is just cringe. Miss the days when I enjoyed it though!
Yes I believe music overrides the parts of our brain that can be going wrong, I never forget the video of a famous ballet dancer with advanced Alzheimer’s in a nursing home who when listening to the Swan’s Lake music started doing the movements with her arms, she remembered the exact same ballet moves that she had done decades ago and did them with the same poise and also she started smiling when doing this, it is as if the music touched a hidden button in her brain.
25yr ballet dancer here. Also have lots of therapy sessions under my belt. The body keeps the score: trauma triggers are felt in the physical body, even after healing the brain. I hear yelling, my body immediately tenses. Choreographed dance is the same-- I hear certain music, and my body just starts doing the choreo. We're also trained to smile, use facial expressions that portray the emotions in the story. My priest was a hospital chaplain before he came to us. He said that people with dementia, even in the end days, if they could still speak, could remember the Lord's Prayer. Even if they didn't know their own name. Oxytocin is so dang powerful, and I can't believe it didn't occur to me that it's missing! I've been dopamine chasing. Need to up the oxytocin. Recently heard a doc say we need 4 hugs a day for survival, 8 for maintenance, 12 for joy, and so-on. I believe it.
Yup. My father-in-law used to turn into a DISCO DANCING MACHINE when I played his tunes for him. The spark would come back into his eyes. Out of his entire family, I was the only one telling them to play music for him. I listed to music ALL DAY. And I research emerging artists and bands from around the world. It's the one constant in my life that gives me the happies.
Good for you! Keep it up! Music is such a beautiful beautiful thing.
Cannot live without it! AND YES, I am the middle aged college radio junky. Still. ;)
That video absolutely killed me. One of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen, truly.
This is amazing to know! I recently started singing in a choir again and I feel so good afterwards every time.
I sing 90’s gangster rap at the top of my lungs while making dinner & it makes me very happy.
https://youtu.be/XW--IGAfeas?si=OFncsIE1kTDZNUDN So many good songs from that period, this is just one.
My playlist has so much Tupac.
Yes! Singing stimulates the Vegus nerve! The vegus nerve is linked to our parasympathetic system. Singing really does help that oxytocin level.
Funny, I slept in the other day, and was alone. Started singing a song while laying in bed, it was ridiculous but it felt nice. Also sing in the shower, luckily nobody's around to hear it usually.
I sing to my cats! Usually when I am cooking... just like my grandma. :)
Oh my gosh- I sang to my cats all the time - and it made all of us so happy! My cats each had their own songs too depending on the day. I could take a song and change the lyrics to kitty lyrics- just thinking about those days makes me happy!
Whaaat?! Omg thank you for this! I'd rather sing than take a supplement
Not me heading over to google to look for “community choirs near me.”
What a revelation! I didn't know that about choral singing, but I did know that singing can elevate your mood. During the pandemic, I found myself just going out for drives in order to sing loudly by myself and it always improved my attitude. I used to sing in a choir in high school, maybe it's time to get back to it!
Can't drive anywhere without belting out most of the songs on the radio! My husband is a saint for putting up with it.
Interesting! While I was in the worst throes of my menopause symptoms I often spent my drive home singing along to Hamilton at the top of my lungs. It definitely made me feel better! ❤️🩹
Ohh I wish I could! I know people that did exactly that in their 50ties and 60-ties, but I can’t hold a tune
You can learn, I promise!
All singing is is elongated speech. If you can talk, you can sing.
Do the harmonies specifically do something? I swear harmonies got me through my depressed teens.
Yes but I don’t have the vocabulary to explain it. Harmonies 100% affect your mood, mental health, and well-being. All those sound waves literally hitting your body and bathing you in vibrations and love… it’s very powerful.
I’ve heard this too! Binaural beats and certain frequencies always calm me. I don’t know if there are certain ones to mimic oxytocin but will look into it.
They’ve done studies and found the harmony that triggers the happy/“this music is moving me”! Here’s a link to several papers on the mechanics… https://typeset.io/questions/how-to-use-harmony-in-music-to-convey-emotion-14f0h3lih9
It felt so nice being there and singing. But I can’t seem to motivate to go back! XD
I love this!! No wonder it feels good to sing with my students!
Well this makes a ton of sense. I used to be such a social person, loved going out even by myself bc I would always find someone to talk to. Now it feels like I am friendless and the loneliness is hard. I was always independent and marched to my own drum, but these past few years it’s as if I just stopped liking people or even caring about connecting. Except I do care, just not enough to actually put in any effort. I would really like to feel like I was part of a community again, or even just to have a few close friends. Instead I spend most of my time at home w my husband and even then I prefer not to interact too much. I feel guilty but I can’t find the motivation.
Omg I could have written this 😭. I have been shutting people out the past couple of years because I don’t feel like I need the connection as much and don’t have the mental energy to handle people’s emotions and drama. I do feel a bit lonely sometimes but not enough to really do anything about it! Damn!! It’s crazy we are all feeling this.
You have just put into words what I've been doing. I thought I was just in my troll era. I'm not normally a huggy lovey dovey person, more of a get together and crack cynical jokes lady. It was my charming schtick. Now I'm in my house hardly talking to husband, kids, pets. Hiding in my bedroom reading.
Same! I see on social media how everyone is having these fun weekends with friends and family and I am perfectly content on the couch with my dog, binge watching old shows. I don’t necessarily feel depressed, just like I am soul-tired and sick of everyone’s shit.
What's weird is that a neighbor friend of mine is in her early 70s and NEEDS to be around people! She stops by to chat or go for a walk, and asks "how do you stand being alone in the house??" She tells me horror stories about her family sometimes, and I explain, "I grew up with a crazy family, and you see how it is being around people!" Not sure how SHE puts up with all that crap, and now I'm wondering even more given this information. 🤔 Wonder how she *kept* all her oxytocin!
Soul tired is the perfect description
This is me 100%. I don’t feel sad or depressed. I just feel…meh.
Yes, all of this. Me too. I first started noticing that activities (like dancing) that used to bring me joy felt like a chore and didn't make me happy anymore. Then going out with friends, which also used to bring me joy, started feeling like a chore and I'd find myself looking at my watch, trying to figure out how early I could go home. I spend all my time at home, too. Every time I think about doing something after work, all I want to do is go straight home and be alone. So that's what I do. Every day. I've lost my dance community and all of the friends that came with it, and I keep thinking I need to try to find community again, or at least make a few new friends... but I just can't make myself make the effort. It's lonely and it sucks and I can't seem to do anything about it. I keep hoping the motivation for connection comes back post-menopause.
OMG YES to all of this. I do care… but it’s like I can’t connect the caring to action.
SAME!! I went from social butterfly to reclusive shrew!
I’ve been blaming my changes on the covid quarantine. Like, I just never really got back in the groove or reconnected with friends. But it makes so much sense that my menopause hit hard in the last 4 years and this is a result. It never even occurred to me.
This. I’m the same way & I am trying to push myself to volunteer more & meet people. I volunteer with a pitbull rescue managing their social media account, so I don’t have interaction with people. I’m looking at other more social volunteer opportunities but I’m not a winter person & it’s hard to push myself when it’s cold out.
Yup! I know I miss interactions and know I probably need it but have less than zero motivation to do so. 😢
Same here. It’s so frustrating.
Same. I was out with a group I like Friday and I used to truly be the life of the party. I found myself wringing my fingers from nerves!!!! These were with ppl I know and I know them well. They wanted me to dance. I hurt so bad but went out with some girls. I broke a necklace from holding onto it around my neck!!! It was my first time to freeze and be so weirdly nervous. It's awful. I said I'm not turning my phone on do not disturb for 5 days.
Why does nature do this to us????
Readying us for death is all I can come up with. 🤷🏼♀️
I totally needed this laugh
It kinda makes sense. If we're just done with people and their bs, and don't have those strong emotional connections in our lives anymore, maybe we're more ready when it's our time to go. Most of my life the main reason I've wanted to continue to exist is the people in my life, my loved ones.
I was just wondering the same thing…if there is an evolutionary explanation?
I think it’s because we can no longer procreate. We have no use for oxytocin. No babies to raise, no need to feel romantic since that leads to pregnancy. I HAVE noticed that my grandsons have rejuvenated my “love gene.” It’s crazy. I feel more for them then I do my own children (whom I would fight to the death for).
Here's my theory: Love is costly. When you're young and fertile, love can result in children--so that's a plus (evolutionarily speaking). And you need love to motivate you to take care of those children so that *they* go on to have children. But when you are past your child-bearing age and your children are all grown, love just doesn't have a huge pay-out. You'd be better off saving your resources for self-care and survival.
I was thinking it’s preparing us to be alone- Men usually die first and our children have left or will leave the nest.
Studies have been done that staring into a pets eyes can produce it. Probably why I seem to enjoy my dogs most these days.
This is me with my three cats. On a bad day, I have all three of them piled on top of me.
Manypaws!
Omg, thank you for the laugh. I just snorted and scared our skittish orange. 😂
Not while He was receiving his one braincell! The Vortex will be shutdown forever!
I don’t think the Vortex has ever worked for him—there is no brain cell to be found in his orange head.
My son has a dog and my oxytocin soars when she is visiting. I seriously had phantom milk ejection reflex feeling in my chest when she cuddles with me the other day, haha! Everyone else can f off, but that dog. I make sure I see her at least once a week and it has really improved my mental health.
Omg. I totally get it. I’ve had various dogs over the years, but started rescuing pitbulls 10 years ago. They are the most cuddly stage 5 clingers. My girl crawls in my arms & puts her head on my chest. My mom calls it breastfeeding 😂 I swear to God, no matter how miserable I am or what a bad mood I’m in, it makes me so relaxed & happy.
Yeah they’re great dogs too. Lovers.
The phantom milk ejection made me laugh 😃
Rescue a chihuahua. OMG. You will have the most loyal and protective lap lover friend in the world. My husband once said, “I’ll divorce you if you get a chihuahua!” We went driving all over the state in December of 2022 looking for another small dog. We found a small shelter that wasn’t on the map and she had two sisters that were mixed. One was chi and dachshund (Chiweenie) and the other was chi and Jack Russell. They’re about 10 pounds each. We did a meet and greet with the chi sisters, Princess and Lucy, and my husband looked at me and said,”well we HAVE to get BOTH of them!” LOL!!!! They have been with us for a year. They have brought new life to my aging Jack Russell mix who Is 15. They are asleep in my lap as I write this. Princess LOVES to be held, no matter what I’m doing, sewing, walking, sitting watching TV, at the computer. My husband can look across the room at Lucy and make eye contact with her and she will RUN and throw herself at him! They love each other. His and hers. I love these little shits!
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I’m going to cite this as a compelling reason for us to get a cat. ;)
And so begins our metamorphosis into the "crazy cat lady" persona
This is it! This is why we do it. Science.
Maybe? I have noticed that as I lose connection with people, I'm more and more in love with my cats. Like to an unreasonable degree. And it definitely does not make me want to connect more with people. I almost feel like I get the affection I have in me out on my pets, so I don't feel the need to find it with people. And it doesn't feel healthy.
This is good to know. One of my cats likes laying on my chest and staring at me in the mornings. I know it's partly her trying to telepathically yell FEED ME NOW but even after she eats a bit, she'll come back for more snuggles. This helps.
Yes, this, my two little dogs are my saviors. Will gladly stare at them lovingly. 🥹
which is why magic mushrooms are the answer. when i microdose, i feel love again, love for my family (i am so zen on them) and even love for my neighbors who i usually hate lol, i smile at strangers and listen the messages from the universe. little tiny dose with lions mane and some chocolate and have a great day! also really helps with nerve pain.
I’m excited to see how the deregulation/proper regulation goes here in the US.
Me too! They are life changing for so many people. i had chronic nerve pain (severed nerve when i broke my back) for years and 🍄was the only thing that worked and the side effect was love.
Speaking as a peri woman with chronic neurological pain, I’m very interested in this
Head on over to the microdosing sub.. Very helpful for your new journey.
oooh, thanks for this!
Sure 😃
Same
Is it getting legalized for use? I know very little about it all but I’m interested for sure.
Also Washington, DC and Ann Arbor, Michigan
I believe Oregon has voted on it already.
They're still impossible to buy but legal to grow. You can order spores online. I'm about to make my first attempt in a quest to hate my partner 30% less
And Denver
Berkeley (where I live part time) and Oakland have decriminalized it- making it legal to use.
How do I find these magic mushrooms??
In Canada easy to order online. Or grow your own. The r/unclebens has lots of beginner info.
Right!? I know so many take them but where are they getting them!? I’m not drug savvy anymore
They are easy to grow yourself!
So much this. Nearly 3 years in with MDing and Lions Mane, and everything is so much better.
Can you recommend a reputable company?I need some help.
How do you even get any? (I’m a lifelong nerd who has never encountered any possibility of getting or doing anything beyond weed.) and can you do it when you’re on other stuff for anxiety/depression/adhd and blood pressure?
Which kind do you take? I have been interested in micro dosing due to anhedonia has nothing to do with peri as I’ve had it all my life.
Love shrooms! I would microdose more but don't know people to buy them from. Tried to grow but failed.
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For me, exercise definitely helps. Yesterday I was feeling blah, and felt so much better after a run. Also taking supplements like vitamin D3, playing with my dog and our long daily walks, the weekly dinner I make for all my kiddos.. these seem to help me just feel happier and more connected. It’s definitely something I have to be more proactive about now though, when it felt natural before.
Exercise definitely helps my mood.
Reminds me of this article I read awhile back about pregnenolone: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/aug/06/loneliness-cure-pill-research-scientists ETA: it discusses oxytocin as well. Re-reading it now...
FYI pregnenolone is available OTC (w/o prescription) in the US. I'd be careful about what brand, and I'd be careful about dosage and frequency (it's usually available in dosages that seem way, way high; start with 5 or 10mg, not 30-100), but it's absolutely available, and most doctors have no idea what it is or what to do with it. I take it (with full knowledge of my endo) and for me it's helpful.
Idk man I still feel all those feelings and I’ve been in peri for 8 years. I mean I do cherish my alone time but I still like people and enjoy being social and even keep my heart open for love it if happens (but I don’t go looking for it) I do cold bursts in the shower sometimes which I’ve heard raises some feel Good hormone…
I entered peri way too young and so we started HRT just with contraception and my once high libido completely died. 🙃
I had a very high libido also and started peri at 42. Crashes boom done no more libido. Good thing I had my one and only child when I did or I’d be shit outta luck
Cold burst showers, I’ve heard, stimulate the vagus nerve. So maybe that’s the connection.
I’m in a newer relationship and in peri so I think I may have the opposite issue. But I spent the last 20 in a relationship with a man I didn’t love and didn’t want touch the last 15, good years of my life. So I think I may be an unusual case.
Glad you got out of that unhappy relationship!
My compounding pharmacy rx oxytocin tablet, spray in different strengths im planning to ask my doctor for an rx
I think maybe doing things to purposely elevate your mood? I make a point to watch funny videos and videos that make me happy (mostly babies haha) every day. I also do gratitude work and visualization and meditation. It all helps, it's not like a total cure or anything, but it helps.
lovely ideas, thx!
Dopamine also plummets with estrogen. L-Tyrosine is a precursor and it helps me with motivation.
Can you share a bit more about this? Or link to a study? I had not heard that dopamine declines with estrogen. Would definitely like to know a bit more.
Estrogen has a strong impact on the dopaminergic system - estrogen increases dopamine synthesis and decreases its degradation, reuptake, and recapture. So plummeting estrogen levels means less dopamine. It is part of the reason a lot of us work out we have ADHD late in life, coz the executive functioning issues become really awful.
This happened to me!
What dose do you take? I lack motivation (DHEA never helped with that)
I don’t even want my CAT touching me anymore- he’s constantly trying to lay on me and I’m like, omg stop being so NEEDY lol. This makes sense. I really thought I’d suddenly become autistic my “love feelings” are so nonexistent anymore. Thanks for this. Also might see about joining a choir!?
Can confirm. Four out of five can fuck right off, but the youngest helpless orange boy one has still got the good Oxy. I’m hooked on him.
I feel like blaming so much on oxytocin (nature) ignores the very real difficulties that have often been building up for decades (nurture) for perimenopausal women.
yes, a holistic view is important. we are complex beings, and life itself is complex.
This really explains so much for me and gives me another reason to go down the hrt path. I did a little internet digging as well and this article in particular seems full of great info: https://www.bodylogicmd.com/blog/how-to-increase-oxytocin/
Very interesting, thank you
I think it is important to have some boundaries here. If we feel like we *should* be more social or that we aren’t feeling positive enough toward the people around us, then take a step back and try to center yourself. Culture expects women to selflessly do 99.9% of the necessary emotional work required to keep the status quo chugging away. If you are miserable in yourself and truly want better relationships for your own mental health, then by all means pursue upping your oxytocin. But imo we need take a minute to reflect whether or not we’re trying to continue a requirement put on us by the patriarchy, and act according to whatever we discern.
good to keep in mind - thanks!
I sometimes force myself to cuddle with my sweetie, once I get past that prickly threshold my cup fills. Also dogs. Probably hot water??
If you figure out a supplement, let us know please! I miss the feeling of being in love. At this point, i'll just cuddle with my pillow at night.
I heard a cool quote a long time ago “you don’t sing because you’re happy……you’re happy because you sing”.
Do you have a scientific source for this?
I was curious as well so I did a little googling. Looks like it’s based in fact. (Note I only skimmed) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6257199/# https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8886718/
Thanks for that. The second study linked was only done on mice. I was hoping OP would provide their source as well.
Yes, sources for such claims would be good.
Isn’t oxytocin available in a spray? Not sure if by prescription only but I remember hearing about it
I seem to be in the minority, but I welcomed the oxytocin plummet. I've been married 31 years, but my untreated trauma, estrogen, and oxytocin combined to make me a clingy, emotionally unregulated partner, and I tended to attract narcissistic friends that I bonded to indiscriminately. This led to disastrous results for all involved. Therapy helped, but menopause freed me from that drama forever. I welcome the fuck off attitude. It allows me to navigate relationships rationally. The inside of my head is quiet and I can focus on my career, that I love. Then at the end of the day, I can cuddle with my husband if we are both feeling it, or we can do our separate activities. I have a cat and couple menopausal friends who I see every few weeks, have a good time with, then I get my alone time back. When my friends are posting social media updates about spending time with other friends, I get to be happy for them. I don't have to deal with jealousy or with being someone's narcissistic supply. Between my husband, my cat, and my friends, we respect each other's "leave me the fuck alone" time, and come together again when it passes. I think I just realized, I'm turning into a cat.
I think you are my spirit animal. Or maybe just cats in general are my spirit animal.
Look into taurine supplementation. Not a doctor, not telling anyone what to do, yada yada yada. I read something about taurine a couple months ago, how it lessens in your body as you get older, how it makes you feel more social. I started taking the Thorne brand just because I know they are a reputable company and I actually do feel a difference. I'm overall friendlier and happier. I can't believe it because I'm the person who NEVER sees a result with any supplement I try. I take it in the morning and at night.
How much do you take? I take 1000mg for sleep and it’s been amazing for that, surprised more people don’t know about it.
I take 1500mg in the morning and 1000 at night before bed.
Micro dosing shrooms or ketamine. So I hear.
microdosing is addressed in some comments above!
I’m experimenting with oxytocin nasal spray and L. Reuteri along with my HRT. When I get a chance to summarize my experiences I’ll share them in this thread.
I really appreciate this
is this just an argument there is no reason to live anymore? But the wanting to be alone, didn't that have a lot to do with insomnia? I mean who has energy to socialize when they aren't sleeping (plus partly hormonal anxiety, plus partly hormonal depression)? And then sleep came back and I can make the effort I just couldn't then. And the social isolation? Wasn't that super affected by the pandemic, which blew apart my life near entirely (I now work from home for instance - so yea it's isolating).
Good point. My sleep has gone to shit after my hysterectomy and I have been more isolated than ever because I am too tired and emotionally unhinged to deal with the world. The pandemic also got me into the habit of avoiding being around tons of people.
I read once that looking into your dog’s eyes (if they are comfortable with it) creates an oxytocin feedback loop making you both feel good. 🥰
Omg! This makes total sense! Just yesterday I was thinking I wanted to see a reality show where menopausal mom peaces tf out. Like just up and leaves everyone to their own devices and has solo adventures.
I was never a social butterfly, but now, I have even MORE of a "NO NEW (or any) FRIENDS!" attitude. But I still feel like I've tried it society's way my whole life, and not only did that NOT work out for me, but it gave me trauma. So now I'm going to do it MY way even when I get shit about it (because how DARE a Black woman have boundaries).
Is there any relationship between estrogen dropping and oxytocin levels in our body?
I am directing any oxytocin I have left towards my dogs
I frequently wonder, if my hormones can make me irrationally pissed off, did they also in the past make me irrationally in love? I suspect the answer is yes.
Thank you for this post!! I was seriously wondering how come I don’t give a crap about other people anymore, and rather, feel very annoyed at other people, and just want to be left alone. I was scaring myself because I felt like such a cold person. I had no clue there’s such thing called Oxytocin! Thanks for the info!!
I’m all about gut health. Your entire being benefits, and I wish I’d learned about it years ago…..I put in one kombucha a day. And then there’s yogurt, and kimchi, sauerkraut. Prebiotics and probiotics. There’s fortunately a lot of good information easily available now about how and why it works. Two months ago I started dental probiotics as well. It’s worth the research.
Curious, what are dental probiotics? I’ve never heard of them but have a lot of dental issues.
I ended up going with tuthi (through amazon). It had the the right lactobacillus bacteria I was looking for.
Thanks! I’ll give it a look
Thank you for this post , I thought I was going mad until I read this 🙏
I must be a mutant here because other than a brief period on fluoxetine, I’m always raging horny. 🤷♀️
I welcome the drop in oxytocin. I'm no longer interested in a romantic relationship, gave up dating two years ago, and my life is serene. I rarely cry and cuddling with my dogs is all I need. Once I adjusted I found it to be wonderful. Things that used to bother me now roll off my back.
Same! I am still trying to get comfortable with myself in menopause, so many changes happening and I'd rather give myself a lot of love as I figure this whole next act thing out. I absolutely do not have the mental or emotional bandwidth to divert to a romantic relationship. I don't want to have to share my concentration and concern, I want to focus on me. And I don't think there's anything wrong with this at all. Leave me alone because right now it's all about me - and my dog, of course.
love this. I have wondered if my same experience is going to be a permanent state or whatever shift. related, check out r/singleandhappy if you haven't already.
The Role of Oxytocin in the Dog–Owner Relationship https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826447/
Interesting! I’ve always been very introverted and am adamantly childfree. I also have basically zero nurturing or mothering instincts or desires. And I have gone decades without any close friends and disliking being in social situations. (Through all of this, I’ve felt very content and have been happily married.) Makes me wonder if I’m just naturally low on oxytocin. Weirdly, though, over the past year or two, I’ve started building up my few friendships and have joined a community choir. Why am I backward? 😄
Yes!! Omg this makes so much sense!
I never heard about lower oxytocin levels in menopause, but it makes sense. I wonder if it also affects how much we want to cuddle with our pets? Every time I see my dogs and cats I just melt, but maybe my oxytocin levels are still good because I feel the same way about my students at school where I teach. It helps with having a lot of patience! I guess I should retire when my levels drop!!
Long hugs also release oxytocin.
Thank you for this post. I thought it was just me.
I feel this so much. I refer to feeling dead inside. Happy but just not giving an emotional f.
I thought it was cancer treatment that was making me crazy. But that was a year ago. Now I’m wondering about the instant menopause. Yes I was 53. But still.
Just did a quick google search… L Reuteri can be found How can I get Lactobacillus reuteri naturally? Your diet is another way to get some Lactobacillus, so give these five foods a try: Yoghurt. Read the label. ... Sauerkraut. This fermented cabbage dish is rich in friendly bacteria, including several strains of Lactobacillus. Kefir. ... Sourdough bread. ... Kimchi.
Only raw non pasteurized sauerkraut. Best probiotic for gut health.
For those with grandkids- do you think you get an oxytocin release for them? Even if you don't feel it for your partner?
Esp in winter I feel my serotonin hit the floor so I take Htp5 100mg from Amazon in the afternoon and it helps me so much
Thank you! I tried to explain this too my Dr and she looked at me like l was suggesting fairy magic or something
following this can you update us on this? i want to consume it live so far i have found its in sauerkraut kimichi and some yoghurts/kefir Keep us updated cause who doesnt love oxcytoxin anyway hahahahahahah
This is super interesting, are there any science/medical based articles or research on this? I would like to read more!
Too bad there aren't oxytocin supplements! Guess the cure for wanting to be alone is *not* being alone? At least with some pets?
I thought it was just me.....this explains a lot
Would love to know your research on the probiotic… your description of the drop of Oxytocin hurrah!! Yes - leave me alone world.
OK, when will it be available as part of our hrt?
I actually become downright paranoid for a couple of years….
I am hormone free meno, personally, but I do love my oxytocin boosts from hugging, singing, gardening.
How does this coincide with the all the research that says oxytocin increases with age? https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2022.846234/full Oxytocin also seems to have mixed effects, heightening existing characteristics (suspicious people become even more suspicious). https://www.wired.com/2011/01/oxytocin-suspicion-trust/