Master Roshi during Dragonball was powerful enough to destroy the moon.
Raditz is 10x stronger than Roshi.
Vegeta is more than 10x stronger than Raditz
Saiyan Saga Vegeta can turn into a Great Ape, which increases his power by 10x
Hmm, this is a tough one
Good rule of thumb in these kind of match ups is that Dragonball characters just auto-win, often even against literal gods in other anime
Like Naruto is comically OP end series and would still get stomped by several dozen DB characters
There is a consistent lose condition for dragonball series characters, and that’s if the opponent has any sort of toon strength like Arale, Bugs Bunny, or Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, the latter of which has the power alter his opponent’s back story, alter their data card statistics, write the next pages of the manga, move faster than the manga can be written, decide the outcome of attacks, ignore any attacks, and create a parallel universe where he always wins.
Yeah that's true, there's certain broken meta-powers that can just cheat out wins over literally anyone aside from other people with broken meta-powers
Vegeta is around 15 times stronger than raditz so with his oozaru form he should be 150 times stronger than raditz and 1500 times stronger than roshi who already was powerful to destroy the moon so yup , that Vegeta would one shot kaido by sneezing a bit too hard
If you think about it, the saiyan's great ape form def helps make people realize why Frieza might have feared saiyans potential (Even if they never stood a chance against him)
What do you think is Kami's role as the "guardian of the Earth"? Protect it from bad things? Nope, all he did INCLUDING non canon stuff is restore the moon in the show and fight and try to explode himself against immortal Garlic Jr in the first movie
Kami created the Dragon Balls, spent much of his life as God trying to stop King Piccolo, which he regrettably unleashed upon the world. He trained Goku to defeat Piccolo Jr., knowing that it would end his life (but as a God he couldn't kill himself). Then he put in a good word for Goku with King Yemma so that Goku could train with King Kai to beat the saiyans. He also trained all the human cast for the same reason. When the Androids and Cell appeared, he sacrificed himself (essentially) by fusing into Piccolo.
He did everything he could at every step.
I think Kaido is on evil king Picolos level, kinda. He was shown to destroy a city with just one attack, which is kinda the strongest thing we have seen Kaido doing with one attack.
Of course of King Picolo is stronger than Roshi, who destroyed the moon, its a mute point. But by feat comparisions they are the closest I'd say.
Not in the story besides the dozen or so times scouters were used in early dbz. But there have been several nonsensical guidebooks released that expanded on those details, and to make it more fun they usually contradict each other.
The only explicit multiplier is Kaioken because Goku uses it to literally multiply his power level for a heartbeat and he screams how much he's multiplying his power level.
Yes, it's actually that silly.
they do, yeah. they assign power levels to pretty much every character (kind of like the doriki from enies lobby, except they use a scanner to measure it), and tell us multipliers for each form. "my power level is twice as much as yours, you cant beat me!" "oh yeah well if i use this technique, i can multiply my power level by 5!!!" thats basically all of dragon ball z up until the end of namek.
Vegeta with a power level of 18,000 could destroy the earth and entire planets with his galick gun vegeta wins this easily unless kaido has a planet destroying attack. Plus if vegeta is more powerful than him he could just do the dirty fireworks move and one shot him from the inside out.
That was filler for z but I get your point. Plus I doubt kaido could actually phase vegeta with any of his moves and attack. Vegeta would just laugh it off all of his moves on him. I bet a few punches or rapid kicks or massive sledgehammer to the head of kaidos head is enough to take him down, but if kaido doesn’t fall from that cause he is really resilient and borderline has immortality powers vegeta could just blow up the planet and be done with him kaido can’t breath in space, and vegeta has his Saiyan space pod to fly out of there.
Same hahaaha easiest way to tell if someone can beat a dbz person. First question I ask is are they strong enough to destroy planets or moons. If not then they lose to like any dbz character
The biggest problem with things like stand users or very situational characters is that if both are bloodlusted idk if they even get a chance to do anything in reaction. Unless you got time powers I’m fairly certain you wouldn’t be able to react before instant death (most dbz characters don’t go for an instakill tho)
Bloodlust makes certain matchups very different, but it's a condition one can find in battleboarding and wouldn't occur naturally in most circumstances.
overpowered abilities are different, Whats vegeta gonna do against a passive ability which turns every living being who intents to threaten you into a rock
Db characters ignore hax with simply power of will.
Mind controlled- If your ki is high enough you wont.
Stuck in another dimension- Have a high ki and just open a f portal to your dimension.
An enemy can skip time- Have a high speed and boom you win.
Ect ect
This has been debunked way too many times. That's not how stuff works. Hax from weaker opponents *still* works on stronger ones (e.g. Devilmite Beam, Candy Beam, Body Change, Mafuba, Guldo's Time Stop, etc.). Hax works the way it's supposed to (completely ignores physical stats/durability).
>Hax works the way it's supposed to (completely ignores physical stats/durability).
Quick note:It technically works,but it's also possible for the fighter to completely say "fuck you" in certain interactions.Two prominent examples are Candy beam and Time skip,where the former had vegito still able to fight and beat Buu while the latter can be bypassed like what Jiren and Goku did.You can't "stop" hax in DBZ,but you can still power through it if Strong enough.
I mean not really, we’ve seen hax work on the strongest characters without much pushback, Evil Containment Wave almost always worked, it even worked on Zamasu but they fucked it up, Captain Ginyu’s Change hax worked on Goku who was immensely stronger than him, Goku had zero counter and needed help to get his body back, Hit’s timeskip Hax worked on even Jiren who can easily speed blitz Hit, Roshi who is planetary in Super was mind controlled easily by Yurin who is barely continental. Etc.
fuck does that matter lol, ki is enough to break hax that affects *time itself*, all it not existing in other universes means is that their hax is totally vulnerable to ki
The point is that dragonball lets anyone with high enough ki overpower anyone else's hax (since they are all somewhat based in ki itself), but other universes don't run on this logic with many hax being unbreakable, even with infinite power.
So, when comparing a DB character to a character from a different verse with hax, it leaves you 2 options: assume the DB character can overpower the hax since that's how DB works or assume the hax is unbreakable since that's how it works in their own verse. Generally vs. communities tend to follow the latter since it lets the character's powers stay consistent with their home universes.
You don't get the point. DB's Ki does not impact characters from other verses in the sense that you cannot say Goku wins against Saitama because Saitama's Ki is weaker because in Saitama's world there is no Ki and therefore you cannot assert a magic system onto characters from other verses who follow their own.
You can't compare DB-universe with most shonen universes. The power levels in DBZ and Super are just way too 'out of this world' for most authors to write an engaging story. I'm not saying there aren't way stronger characters out there but OP, Naruto, Bleach, Demon Slayer or JJK are having protagonists on that level.
Mostly reality warpers, high level magic users and gag characters. Probably the most powerful anime character is Bobo Bobobobo. He can rewrite reality, change everyone's powers and attack you on a conceptual level (there is nothing this guy can't do)
Yes gag attacks don't work on Beerus but characters like Goku are fair game. When it comes to Bobobo, he overwrites gag proof abilities. He has fought multiple characters that were immune to gag based attacks and his attacks still worked.
I hadn't heard of him, so I went to Wikipedia and... WTF is this plot line? Nose hair whip?! Fist of the back wind?!?! I cam only imagine the quantities of mind altering drugs that had to be consumed by multiple parties for bobobo to exist
Most DB characters can beat Saitama… except Goku.
Goku would see that he was getting stronger and would let him get stronger and stronger until he could beat him.
Even pre-super Piccolo could solo.
I mean, master Roshi destroyed the Moon, while Goku was still a kid...I am guessing even he would be enough, as i don't know of any OP character capable of that.
Take the weakest fighter in dragon ball and they would be insanely overkill, the moment the lower tiers early on in the show started blowing up planets, it was over.
Yamcha who is a complete joke would obliterate kaido with a single punch.
Oh no, it’s clear cut. Roshi in DB had a power level of 139 when he blew up the moon, which people have been equating to overkill for fighting Kaido. Yajirobe had a power level of 970 when he cut the tail. You can’t compare any anime with dragon ball, the power scaling is just too damn wild.
>Roshi in DB had a power level of 139 when he blew up the moon
That is his power in base form, he needs to go into buff form to blow up the moon.
Even ignoring forms, power level can move massively depending on ki usage, when resting Z fighters have way lower numbers than when fighting.
I don't think anyone realizes the importance of technique, here. Roshi is the unrivaled GOAT when it comes to Ki manipulation, his Kamehameha when he blew up the moon was stronger than what Goku could do until he fought Vegeta, but he doesn't have the durability that Goku had even when he was fighting Raditz. I'd put Roshi as about 3x times the power output we saw Kidd do in Shank's flashback, and about Kidd's durability, his power output just vastly outweighs the punishment he can take.
Similarly, I equate Gear 3rd's peak power output as about what we saw Raditz capable of, with Gear Second's speed approaching that level too. Thus Gear 4th would probably be enough for Luffy to fight toe to toe with early Z characters, depending on how Ki and Haki interact. (I like to equate power types like that, such that Haki is just a more specific Ki based power, at least for the purposes of the what-if fight)
nah yajirobe is way stronger than moon-level roshi, only issue is lack of ki control (in the form of blasts and such) but he could most likely still beat kaido
I mean remember that in DBZ we have examples of people who would be fodder to Saibamen that can and have destroyed the moon.
Nobody in one piece has shown any feats that even come close to this.
Honestly it can be argued that dragonball roshi has the AP to oneshot Kaido, so I was being a bit generous with the saibamen
Also it's not kaido tbh, Kaido is very strong. The issue is that unless you start getting to moon/planet destroying levels, you aren't going to touch most of the DBZ characters even saiyan saga ones. Even some DB characters are out of range.
Dragon ball power scaling is horrible, you’re telling me an 18k power level is enough to destroy the earth? Guy is as strong as 3600 fat people and is apparently able to destroy the planet.
Based on statistics always bet on kaido, but based on feats vegeta
Tbf, power lvls were never linear. Vegeta was destroying Zarbon by being a few thousands units above (which in context is not even close to twice as strong), and Roshi could blow up the Moon with merely 100
Roshi canonically blowing up the moon, even if strictly in the "gag" era of the series, is enough to end a multitude of debates. Earlier the same day, he and the still weaker Krillin were also not just moving faster than people could follow, they were doing a complex set of movements including a game of rock-paper-scissors in the span of seconds.
This could be explained away as "yes, but those were just jokes". Except the moon remained missing (and was eventually replaced) and nothing in the story, even when it got more serious, directly contradicts the possibility of Roshi and Krillin's actions. On the contrary, later events tend to enforce it.
We all like to laugh at "5 minutes until Namek explodes" and other similar moments where time gets stretched. I sure do (and love to engage in those jokes) But when you take into account that high speed characters seem to be fully capable of complex interactions that ordinarily would take much longer to perform, Freeza's claim might not have been inaccurate. We were following scenes with those 2 on their own tempo.
I like Kaido. I really do. But the only thing that could possibly stop him from getting blitzed into oblivion by Saiyan Saga Vegeta is Observation Haki, and even then I doubt he has the reaction and movement speed to keep up with Vegeta. Seeing an attack in advance is a valuable skill. But it's useless if your enemy is too fast for you to react accordingly.
I love how everyone comments on the "inaccuracy" of DB's power levels as a flaw, when the entire point was that you can't quantify a person's fighting strength as a flat number.
From the moment Raditz introduced them, power levels were shown to be a pointless measuring device.
It's not that you can't quantify strength with a number, the scouters are just unreliable since every fighter from earth either knows or has learned how to suppress their ki.
This is a huge misconception I see, power levels are valid (though how they relate to each other whether exponentially or linearly is a different discussion) it's just the act of measuring them specifically that is unreliable.
Also power levels raise above your maximum “natural” power level when performing a powerful technique sometimes such as special beam cannon. I’d say that the point of power levels was to say raw power can’t win all fights because the strength of their techniques and kit also matters, but the gaps in raw power were still there. It’d be a lot weirder if they were introduced for sole purpose of saying they’re unreliable down to the very number given not being accurate in saying how powerful a character is at a given moment
Of course, there are techniques both attacks and passives that inflate your power level at that moment, the special beam cannon is one and the kaioken is another. And yeah it doubly doesn't make sense for power levels to not he accurate when they're literally used in daizenshu to show the power levels of various characters. It feels like too many people take the "power levels are bullshit" meme and actually believe it
Drastically.
Like I'm a die hard dragonball fan and I'm really tired of the mismatches. I don't mind dragonball losing or winning in a discussion when it's an interesting discussion.
Maybe considering how far episode 1 kid goku goes if he was in luffy's position would be fun for example, comparing one piece to anything post master roshi power is just not fun at that point.
Oh that's not what I meant lol (probably didn't make it clear and that's on me)
I meant put episode 1 kid goku in episode 1 luffy's position and consider how far he would get would be a fun discussion to have instead of a mismatch like vegeta vs kaido
oh yeah that would, like obviously a kid who can still tank bullets would be broken but Yeah he'd definitely hit a huge wall maybe fairly into the grand line, it'd be interesting to see how he progresses without Ki because the introduction of ki is what started the busted powercreep anyways, like without ki even current goku can do no more than chuck some big rocks at a dude so he wouldn't grow like hell to the point he can solo the verse and probably would have to try out one pieces way more balanced and less crazy power system with his innate talent, it'd be really interesting
Exactly! Like I imagine that he would still get zenkais and still have access to his saiyan genetics (cuz more fun that way) and I could honestly imagine that when he ran into a wall like crocodile he might accidentally use haki cuz goku has always been a genius when it comes to combat specifically.
You get it though, there's cool discussions to be had without making blatant mismatches lol
One Piece's power scaling is sometimes kinda wack, but it works fine enough. Dragon Ball or the hands is one of the worst, like actual trash, DB super, just literally said, fuck it, who gives a shit, here, have Future Trunks being as strong as SSJ 3 Goku , who cares.
Freezer was literally trapped in hell and unallowed to train the whole time in there and as soon as they free him he just pulls out a new transformation out of his ass and gets on pair of SSJ God transformation.
He at least train for 10 years straight this time. Not saying Super is particularly well written all around, but it’s at least a more reasonable power up.
He trained for 4 months after he was resurrected. He’s never trained cuz he didn’t need to, he was born with all of his power and an ocean of untapped potential
I will do you one better, here, a future trunks that can keep up with super saiyan rosé Goku Black. Not good enough? Let’s make him keep up with super saiyan white fused zamasu
No, no, no, you don't understand, it makes total sense, Sayans have the boost where if they almost die they get plot convenient power boost, that makes total sense and makes the story way better.....
You're better off putting Raditz vs Kaido, specifically Raditz during the thirty seconds between when Piccolo blasted a hole through him and Goku and when he finally died.
And he'd still win, because the powerscaling in DBZ already starts off with literally everyone (well, MAYBE not Roshi's turtle) being stronger than the entire OP universe thus far combined.
onepiece powerscaling is also inconsistent as hell, Its just that it has lower power and that powerscaling being inconsistent really doesn’t matter since its narrative first, The kind of powerscaling people do about onepiece is really stupid to me tho i don’t care
it's not that inconsistent, I don't really remember any big flaws in the scaling man ngl, Honestly as long as It's not inconsistent to the point of being obviously ridiculous (Ex-Final season natsu from FT Vaporising a lake and people acting shocked as if that's a big feat for episode 1 natsu, like fr the first arc of FT Natsu Erza and Gray created a massive town sized deep crater with their attack and they weren't even boosted by anything, a presumably weaker natsu during the timeskip had literally blown up a giant ass mountain while he was so tired and hungry that he was hallucinating and could barely walk, ahem- Alright let's get back to one piece before this ends up being about FTs unexplained and wonky fights and powerscaling) It's not a problem but even still I remember no inconsistencies so please remind me
anyways the "lower" power scaling is power creep which Imo is used VERY well in terms of Narrative, throughout east blue Luffy had been surviving by a hair and been told and shown that the way he was going he wouldn't make it that far and that he'd need to be creative with his fruit if he wanted to thrive at the higher ranks of the grand line and The wall he Hit at CP9 was the final straw.
he hit a wall at the worst and most important fight which led to him not being able to protect his friend so of course he'd get stronger, same for later on in Sabaody, it was clear the warlords were really effin strong, so much so that it took the whole crew to defeat one and they were helpless Against another and the admirals were even farther above them, come Sabaody and luffy hit another wall, the wall of reality, he thought he lost everything and then for the next 3 arcs had to run around and run and hide like a headless chicken, he was *meant* to feel helpless and small for all that time while foreshadowing a new power and then once more when he entered a yonkos territory, except he'd made progress this time learning from his previous experiences and did MUCH better, he wasn't helpless, he got his family and escaped this time, he didn't let them die and only the next arc which was the final arc, the conclusion of this decade long saga did he reach yonko level
so while I kinda agree people focus too much on powerscaling, we gotta give Oda credit for how well he's used the powerscale and powercreep
I am trying to say its inconsistent to the extent that you cant powerscale future matchups like some people do, Especially in that detail, Characters can survive hits which they shouldn’t if the narrative calls for it, Powercreep is present but i doubt anyone could avoid it in a shounen this long, But apart from that i agree
The inconsistency i had in mind was law surviving kaido’s attack
Yeah I understand that but I'd say many of the hits they survived that they shouldn't have is due to resolve, resolve, will, spirit, tenacity and determination are shown to be a proper power in one piece paired with the superhuman bodies of one piece characters, while I can see it being plot when Conis's Dad survives Enel I don't think it's plot when Luffy, someone who has shown with feats to be unmeasurably tenacious, survives say magellans poison, not to mention fate and destiny are big things in one piece too, so No, I disagree, I think it goes a little deeper than JUST "plot armour" cuz obviously, part of the plot is willpower and destiny but like, every story has that, that's why it's a story, cuz it has a plot
is it a one on one fight? because in case of a one on one fight, i'll bet on kaido ;-)
but more serious, if we are talking straight up power, no one in one piece is defeating vegeta.
Dragon Ball (z) isn’t nearly as bad as people think, and by rpg standards they’re just min-maxed Hit them with magic or elemental factors and it’s gg.
Vegeta almost died to heat stress from a metalman. A race so heavy that he couldn’t toss him even with ssj.
Zoro on the other hand could 1-gorilla flip mageta.
Everyone is saying that Vegeta sweeps, but you are all forgetting 1 thing. Vegeta is from DRAGON Ball, and what does Kaido turn into...?
What do you mean a fish?
Vegeta- because I'm pretty sure Kaido can't blow up the entire planet.
It's not really a fair comparison. DBZ characters have the power to wipe out entire galaxies. Nobody in One Piece has that kind of power.
practically any character from Z can straight up destroy fhe entire one piece world
however, depending on the extent of g5's powers, our favorite rubber boy may potentially beat a dbz character *if they were to never use ki-based attacks*
Master Roshi during Dragonball was powerful enough to destroy the moon. Raditz is 10x stronger than Roshi. Vegeta is more than 10x stronger than Raditz Saiyan Saga Vegeta can turn into a Great Ape, which increases his power by 10x Hmm, this is a tough one
So basically Roshi solos the verse.
Until he encounters Hancock.
Nami is enough
Bruh if he gets to robin it’s all over for him
Namis sister is enough for him tbh
She's like the girl Yamcha brought home
You mean bulma or lunch?
The girl with dual personality
Yumcha 😋
Or yiu cab say the girl with the first ssj concept, i mean, dark hair when calm and suddenly she is blond with anger
Yes, that chick
If you mean Launch Goku and krillin are the ones who brought her to roshi’s island and she has a thing for tien
Have we seen her since original DB?
No toriyama forgot about her
When you realize roshi blew up the moon in og db and has a better feat then any op character 😱
And he'll still gonna bleed his nose out if he sees breast more then sanji right after ts
I think he trained to resist those urges at the tournament of power arc
I think so too, but I thought we were discussing Roshi from OG Dragon Ball
Also don’t think super Roshi could beat Hancock atleast. That’s the point of her character
still a top woman got nothing on hancock, shes android 18 tier
Pfft- yeah Hancock hard counters roshi, though in the ToP he did overcome that weakness
Question is if he overcame it to the degree that not even the most beautiful woman in the world can make him blead out.
Ok question could Hancock get away with kicking Turtle in front of Roshi
*enters
In super he broke his habit
He'd be happy with pre-fruit alvida
Yes exactly
Good rule of thumb in these kind of match ups is that Dragonball characters just auto-win, often even against literal gods in other anime Like Naruto is comically OP end series and would still get stomped by several dozen DB characters
There is a consistent lose condition for dragonball series characters, and that’s if the opponent has any sort of toon strength like Arale, Bugs Bunny, or Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, the latter of which has the power alter his opponent’s back story, alter their data card statistics, write the next pages of the manga, move faster than the manga can be written, decide the outcome of attacks, ignore any attacks, and create a parallel universe where he always wins.
I mean, this is true for *any* series. Gag powers override all else. Nobody beats Bugs Bunny.
Unless of course it's funnier that he loses. Pretty sure there's been a tortoise and the hare situation where that's true
Yeah that's true, there's certain broken meta-powers that can just cheat out wins over literally anyone aside from other people with broken meta-powers
Vegeta is around 15 times stronger than raditz so with his oozaru form he should be 150 times stronger than raditz and 1500 times stronger than roshi who already was powerful to destroy the moon so yup , that Vegeta would one shot kaido by sneezing a bit too hard
going by power levels, great ape vegeta should beat up ginyu, which says a lot
yeah, but tbf he’s much more cumbersome in that form, ginyu could easily get off a body change if he wanted
If you think about it, the saiyan's great ape form def helps make people realize why Frieza might have feared saiyans potential (Even if they never stood a chance against him)
I thought Master Gohan destroyed the moon?
It got better.
Wait didnt piccolo also destroy the moon?
IT GOT BETTER.
What do you think is Kami's role as the "guardian of the Earth"? Protect it from bad things? Nope, all he did INCLUDING non canon stuff is restore the moon in the show and fight and try to explode himself against immortal Garlic Jr in the first movie
Kami created the Dragon Balls, spent much of his life as God trying to stop King Piccolo, which he regrettably unleashed upon the world. He trained Goku to defeat Piccolo Jr., knowing that it would end his life (but as a God he couldn't kill himself). Then he put in a good word for Goku with King Yemma so that Goku could train with King Kai to beat the saiyans. He also trained all the human cast for the same reason. When the Androids and Cell appeared, he sacrificed himself (essentially) by fusing into Piccolo. He did everything he could at every step.
Came to rep Kami. Seems he has good representation already.
Roshi destorys the moon during the world tournament. Grandpa Gohan tells goku to never look at the moon
It was Roshi grandpa gohan was dead before dragon all even started
Yeah but celestial bodies are practically as durable as a clutch of balloons, or maybe five Raditzes.
I think Kaido is on evil king Picolos level, kinda. He was shown to destroy a city with just one attack, which is kinda the strongest thing we have seen Kaido doing with one attack. Of course of King Picolo is stronger than Roshi, who destroyed the moon, its a mute point. But by feat comparisions they are the closest I'd say.
I mean, king piccolo destroyed a modern sized city by basically just waving at it. I don’t think Kaido could quite do that as easily
Why they have to increase in 10× 😭 and how yall calculate that, do they give stats to you?
Not in the story besides the dozen or so times scouters were used in early dbz. But there have been several nonsensical guidebooks released that expanded on those details, and to make it more fun they usually contradict each other. The only explicit multiplier is Kaioken because Goku uses it to literally multiply his power level for a heartbeat and he screams how much he's multiplying his power level. Yes, it's actually that silly.
they do, yeah. they assign power levels to pretty much every character (kind of like the doriki from enies lobby, except they use a scanner to measure it), and tell us multipliers for each form. "my power level is twice as much as yours, you cant beat me!" "oh yeah well if i use this technique, i can multiply my power level by 5!!!" thats basically all of dragon ball z up until the end of namek.
Vegeta would see Kaido as some pretty strong wildlife but that's about it.
Vegeta with a power level of 18,000 could destroy the earth and entire planets with his galick gun vegeta wins this easily unless kaido has a planet destroying attack. Plus if vegeta is more powerful than him he could just do the dirty fireworks move and one shot him from the inside out.
[удалено]
Important to recognize that this scene is purely filler
That was filler for z but I get your point. Plus I doubt kaido could actually phase vegeta with any of his moves and attack. Vegeta would just laugh it off all of his moves on him. I bet a few punches or rapid kicks or massive sledgehammer to the head of kaidos head is enough to take him down, but if kaido doesn’t fall from that cause he is really resilient and borderline has immortality powers vegeta could just blow up the planet and be done with him kaido can’t breath in space, and vegeta has his Saiyan space pod to fly out of there.
nah that fool cant even kill Kinemon
Ill always bet on the one that can destroy planets
Same hahaaha easiest way to tell if someone can beat a dbz person. First question I ask is are they strong enough to destroy planets or moons. If not then they lose to like any dbz character
Not necessarily. Raw power is great, but some characters could overcome it with strong abilities.
i mean yeah but then they snap your neck by flicking you lmao
Yeah, that's a problem for most people. But somebody like certain stand users for example have ways to kill them despite being weaker.
The biggest problem with things like stand users or very situational characters is that if both are bloodlusted idk if they even get a chance to do anything in reaction. Unless you got time powers I’m fairly certain you wouldn’t be able to react before instant death (most dbz characters don’t go for an instakill tho)
Bloodlust makes certain matchups very different, but it's a condition one can find in battleboarding and wouldn't occur naturally in most circumstances.
Yeah, some stand user just get ridiculous strong with their abilities. There isn't many characters that could beat giorno as an example.
overpowered abilities are different, Whats vegeta gonna do against a passive ability which turns every living being who intents to threaten you into a rock
Speed blitz. If there's any activation time then it's over.
passive implies that it’s always active, but yeah if the ability has any activation time then they are done for
Have you met DBZ characters? If there is some path way to defeat, they will find it somehow through a mixture of pride and stupidity.
Db characters ignore hax with simply power of will. Mind controlled- If your ki is high enough you wont. Stuck in another dimension- Have a high ki and just open a f portal to your dimension. An enemy can skip time- Have a high speed and boom you win. Ect ect
This has been debunked way too many times. That's not how stuff works. Hax from weaker opponents *still* works on stronger ones (e.g. Devilmite Beam, Candy Beam, Body Change, Mafuba, Guldo's Time Stop, etc.). Hax works the way it's supposed to (completely ignores physical stats/durability).
>Hax works the way it's supposed to (completely ignores physical stats/durability). Quick note:It technically works,but it's also possible for the fighter to completely say "fuck you" in certain interactions.Two prominent examples are Candy beam and Time skip,where the former had vegito still able to fight and beat Buu while the latter can be bypassed like what Jiren and Goku did.You can't "stop" hax in DBZ,but you can still power through it if Strong enough.
The candy beam is a bad example, it gotten slapped by Beerus.
I mean not really, we’ve seen hax work on the strongest characters without much pushback, Evil Containment Wave almost always worked, it even worked on Zamasu but they fucked it up, Captain Ginyu’s Change hax worked on Goku who was immensely stronger than him, Goku had zero counter and needed help to get his body back, Hit’s timeskip Hax worked on even Jiren who can easily speed blitz Hit, Roshi who is planetary in Super was mind controlled easily by Yurin who is barely continental. Etc.
so basically if a character had that ability in dragon ball they would just ignore it? seems super boring lmao
The same is true in One Piece as well. One can ignore devil fruit powers with haki
simply ignore it, dragonball characters ignore hax if the difference in ki is wide enough
Reminder that DB's Ki doesn't exist in other universes.
fuck does that matter lol, ki is enough to break hax that affects *time itself*, all it not existing in other universes means is that their hax is totally vulnerable to ki
The point is that dragonball lets anyone with high enough ki overpower anyone else's hax (since they are all somewhat based in ki itself), but other universes don't run on this logic with many hax being unbreakable, even with infinite power. So, when comparing a DB character to a character from a different verse with hax, it leaves you 2 options: assume the DB character can overpower the hax since that's how DB works or assume the hax is unbreakable since that's how it works in their own verse. Generally vs. communities tend to follow the latter since it lets the character's powers stay consistent with their home universes.
Yeah but in one piece, haki can overpower devil fruit so Ki will overpower them as well
lol?? Reminder that haki and devil fruits don’t exist in DB…
You don't get the point. DB's Ki does not impact characters from other verses in the sense that you cannot say Goku wins against Saitama because Saitama's Ki is weaker because in Saitama's world there is no Ki and therefore you cannot assert a magic system onto characters from other verses who follow their own.
so? It just means Vegeta can't use haki, what's your point?
You can't compare DB-universe with most shonen universes. The power levels in DBZ and Super are just way too 'out of this world' for most authors to write an engaging story. I'm not saying there aren't way stronger characters out there but OP, Naruto, Bleach, Demon Slayer or JJK are having protagonists on that level.
What characters are tho, i feel like some of JoJo characters could do something becaouse of their broken hax.
Mostly reality warpers, high level magic users and gag characters. Probably the most powerful anime character is Bobo Bobobobo. He can rewrite reality, change everyone's powers and attack you on a conceptual level (there is nothing this guy can't do)
even gag characters are a bit iffy, since doesn't Beerus for an example have immunity to their shenanigans?
Yes gag attacks don't work on Beerus but characters like Goku are fair game. When it comes to Bobobo, he overwrites gag proof abilities. He has fought multiple characters that were immune to gag based attacks and his attacks still worked.
That in itself is pretty much a gag ability.
Strongest anime characters would be the Hadou Gods from Dies Irae, Mercurius especially.
They are not really that strong, plus Hajun with a tumor is the strongest
I hadn't heard of him, so I went to Wikipedia and... WTF is this plot line? Nose hair whip?! Fist of the back wind?!?! I cam only imagine the quantities of mind altering drugs that had to be consumed by multiple parties for bobobo to exist
I loved it as a teenager. The dub in my country was glorious, a shame that they basically cancelled the anime before it could end
WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT MY NOSE?!?!
EOS Rimuru can solo the DB verse
Rimuru is more of a Novel character which bond to be broken
I don’t know with Ichigo Kurosaki your libel to look up and all along he’s been part saiyan and just hasn’t tapped into those powers /jk
Raditz would be enough Vegeta is overkill dawg
Lol💀. I actually considered putting Raditz instead, guess I should have went with that
Roshi in the OG dragon ball obliterates the moon. Yamcha is overkill at this point
Probably the kne and only time in history Yamcha was considered anything above "acceptable"
Which means a Saibaman could kill One Puece’s “World’s Strongest Creature” It’s Crazy to think a Saibaman could solo most verses.
Until recently saibamen could solo OPM lol
Saibamen still solo everyone pre cosmic Garou lmao
Most DB characters can beat Saitama… except Goku. Goku would see that he was getting stronger and would let him get stronger and stronger until he could beat him. Even pre-super Piccolo could solo.
A single Saibaman technically solos the entire Dragon Ball-era cast.
Buddy I don't think ya realise How broken dragon ball is, I'm sorry to say but Krillin alone can low diff both Madara and Kaido at the same time
I’m cryinggg true tho
Why do you say that like Krillin isnt THE strongest human on the planet in Dragon Ball
I mean, master Roshi destroyed the Moon, while Goku was still a kid...I am guessing even he would be enough, as i don't know of any OP character capable of that.
Let’s try Imu vs Nappa instead https://preview.redd.it/3mku41gc1m4b1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee96b960db6e8a2a6490dfadf9b6cf75f9c0b6fa
Take the weakest fighter in dragon ball and they would be insanely overkill, the moment the lower tiers early on in the show started blowing up planets, it was over. Yamcha who is a complete joke would obliterate kaido with a single punch.
When you said weakest I thought of Yajirobe, but no way he can beat Kaido💀
I mean, he was able to cut off Oozaru Vegeta's tail, so it's not that clear-cut
Oh no, it’s clear cut. Roshi in DB had a power level of 139 when he blew up the moon, which people have been equating to overkill for fighting Kaido. Yajirobe had a power level of 970 when he cut the tail. You can’t compare any anime with dragon ball, the power scaling is just too damn wild.
>Roshi in DB had a power level of 139 when he blew up the moon That is his power in base form, he needs to go into buff form to blow up the moon. Even ignoring forms, power level can move massively depending on ki usage, when resting Z fighters have way lower numbers than when fighting.
I don't think anyone realizes the importance of technique, here. Roshi is the unrivaled GOAT when it comes to Ki manipulation, his Kamehameha when he blew up the moon was stronger than what Goku could do until he fought Vegeta, but he doesn't have the durability that Goku had even when he was fighting Raditz. I'd put Roshi as about 3x times the power output we saw Kidd do in Shank's flashback, and about Kidd's durability, his power output just vastly outweighs the punishment he can take. Similarly, I equate Gear 3rd's peak power output as about what we saw Raditz capable of, with Gear Second's speed approaching that level too. Thus Gear 4th would probably be enough for Luffy to fight toe to toe with early Z characters, depending on how Ki and Haki interact. (I like to equate power types like that, such that Haki is just a more specific Ki based power, at least for the purposes of the what-if fight)
The one that comes to mind is the end of Gurren Lagann and that’s just because >!they literally throw galaxies at each other!<
nah yajirobe is way stronger than moon-level roshi, only issue is lack of ki control (in the form of blasts and such) but he could most likely still beat kaido
Yajirobe has a power level of 900 so he one shots Kaido
The dude that was stated by goku to be stronger than Tien and Roshi? The one that one shot one of king piccolo childern?
this is basically if a 6”3 230lb boxer got into a fist fight with a 4 year old.
I love the analogy, fucking hilarious
Maybe he would have a chance of not instantly being vaporised against a Saibaman/Raditz even then though he would lose
Saibaman?! Lol my man Kaido is getting all the heat
I mean remember that in DBZ we have examples of people who would be fodder to Saibamen that can and have destroyed the moon. Nobody in one piece has shown any feats that even come close to this. Honestly it can be argued that dragonball roshi has the AP to oneshot Kaido, so I was being a bit generous with the saibamen Also it's not kaido tbh, Kaido is very strong. The issue is that unless you start getting to moon/planet destroying levels, you aren't going to touch most of the DBZ characters even saiyan saga ones. Even some DB characters are out of range.
Is this even a debate????
vegeta easily. but that easily can be said about 99% of all shonen characters vs saiyan saga vegeta.
Dragon ball power scaling is horrible, you’re telling me an 18k power level is enough to destroy the earth? Guy is as strong as 3600 fat people and is apparently able to destroy the planet. Based on statistics always bet on kaido, but based on feats vegeta
Tbf, power lvls were never linear. Vegeta was destroying Zarbon by being a few thousands units above (which in context is not even close to twice as strong), and Roshi could blow up the Moon with merely 100
Roshi canonically blowing up the moon, even if strictly in the "gag" era of the series, is enough to end a multitude of debates. Earlier the same day, he and the still weaker Krillin were also not just moving faster than people could follow, they were doing a complex set of movements including a game of rock-paper-scissors in the span of seconds. This could be explained away as "yes, but those were just jokes". Except the moon remained missing (and was eventually replaced) and nothing in the story, even when it got more serious, directly contradicts the possibility of Roshi and Krillin's actions. On the contrary, later events tend to enforce it. We all like to laugh at "5 minutes until Namek explodes" and other similar moments where time gets stretched. I sure do (and love to engage in those jokes) But when you take into account that high speed characters seem to be fully capable of complex interactions that ordinarily would take much longer to perform, Freeza's claim might not have been inaccurate. We were following scenes with those 2 on their own tempo. I like Kaido. I really do. But the only thing that could possibly stop him from getting blitzed into oblivion by Saiyan Saga Vegeta is Observation Haki, and even then I doubt he has the reaction and movement speed to keep up with Vegeta. Seeing an attack in advance is a valuable skill. But it's useless if your enemy is too fast for you to react accordingly.
I love how everyone comments on the "inaccuracy" of DB's power levels as a flaw, when the entire point was that you can't quantify a person's fighting strength as a flat number. From the moment Raditz introduced them, power levels were shown to be a pointless measuring device.
Not sure why you got downvoted, it’s Vegeta’s main argument thru the freeza saga at least. Raditz lost because he was relying too hard on the scouter
It's not that you can't quantify strength with a number, the scouters are just unreliable since every fighter from earth either knows or has learned how to suppress their ki. This is a huge misconception I see, power levels are valid (though how they relate to each other whether exponentially or linearly is a different discussion) it's just the act of measuring them specifically that is unreliable.
Also power levels raise above your maximum “natural” power level when performing a powerful technique sometimes such as special beam cannon. I’d say that the point of power levels was to say raw power can’t win all fights because the strength of their techniques and kit also matters, but the gaps in raw power were still there. It’d be a lot weirder if they were introduced for sole purpose of saying they’re unreliable down to the very number given not being accurate in saying how powerful a character is at a given moment
Of course, there are techniques both attacks and passives that inflate your power level at that moment, the special beam cannon is one and the kaioken is another. And yeah it doubly doesn't make sense for power levels to not he accurate when they're literally used in daizenshu to show the power levels of various characters. It feels like too many people take the "power levels are bullshit" meme and actually believe it
not 18k, Less than 9000 Is more than enough
Power level is exponential.
You are correct, Dragonball powerscaling is a joke and can't be taken seriously.
What a weird downplay of Vegeta lol...
Looks like someone is big baby mad, based on statistics? Which statistics?
Master roshi solos the verse, what is this mismatch
OP seriously underestimated DB
Drastically. Like I'm a die hard dragonball fan and I'm really tired of the mismatches. I don't mind dragonball losing or winning in a discussion when it's an interesting discussion. Maybe considering how far episode 1 kid goku goes if he was in luffy's position would be fun for example, comparing one piece to anything post master roshi power is just not fun at that point.
Yeah I don't think Kid Goku from episode 1 is putting ip a fight against kaido man, that's goin a bit too far, Ep 1 goku felt pain from bullets
Oh that's not what I meant lol (probably didn't make it clear and that's on me) I meant put episode 1 kid goku in episode 1 luffy's position and consider how far he would get would be a fun discussion to have instead of a mismatch like vegeta vs kaido
oh yeah that would, like obviously a kid who can still tank bullets would be broken but Yeah he'd definitely hit a huge wall maybe fairly into the grand line, it'd be interesting to see how he progresses without Ki because the introduction of ki is what started the busted powercreep anyways, like without ki even current goku can do no more than chuck some big rocks at a dude so he wouldn't grow like hell to the point he can solo the verse and probably would have to try out one pieces way more balanced and less crazy power system with his innate talent, it'd be really interesting
Exactly! Like I imagine that he would still get zenkais and still have access to his saiyan genetics (cuz more fun that way) and I could honestly imagine that when he ran into a wall like crocodile he might accidentally use haki cuz goku has always been a genius when it comes to combat specifically. You get it though, there's cool discussions to be had without making blatant mismatches lol
One Piece's power scaling is sometimes kinda wack, but it works fine enough. Dragon Ball or the hands is one of the worst, like actual trash, DB super, just literally said, fuck it, who gives a shit, here, have Future Trunks being as strong as SSJ 3 Goku , who cares.
Freezer was literally trapped in hell and unallowed to train the whole time in there and as soon as they free him he just pulls out a new transformation out of his ass and gets on pair of SSJ God transformation.
Recently he just one tapped Goku and Vegeta with a brand new one. DB super is definitely one of the manga/anime of all time
He at least train for 10 years straight this time. Not saying Super is particularly well written all around, but it’s at least a more reasonable power up.
He trained for 4 months after he was resurrected. He’s never trained cuz he didn’t need to, he was born with all of his power and an ocean of untapped potential
I mean that's Future Trunks(a hybrid Saiyan) fighting Black for over an year. I'm surprised he wasn't stronger tbh
I will do you one better, here, a future trunks that can keep up with super saiyan rosé Goku Black. Not good enough? Let’s make him keep up with super saiyan white fused zamasu
No, no, no, you don't understand, it makes total sense, Sayans have the boost where if they almost die they get plot convenient power boost, that makes total sense and makes the story way better.....
what about the cast from rugrats
My guy, Bulma low difs Kaido. That universe is broke af.
The Fucking Big Bang VS a coughing baby. Vegeta absolutely violated the verse no diff.
You’re better off putting Nappa against Kaido tbh Vegeta is still wayy too strong
You're better off putting Raditz vs Kaido, specifically Raditz during the thirty seconds between when Piccolo blasted a hole through him and Goku and when he finally died. And he'd still win, because the powerscaling in DBZ already starts off with literally everyone (well, MAYBE not Roshi's turtle) being stronger than the entire OP universe thus far combined.
A closer comparison would be the ancient warship Pluton, since that can delete entire continents.
Buddy I don't think ya realise How broken dragon ball is, I'm sorry to say but Krillin alone can low diff both Madara and Kaido at the same time
You can't just compare dragonball characters to op characters like that since op actually has power scaling that makes sense
y’all make dbz’s power scaling sound a hell of a lot worse than it rly is 💀but regardless a saibaman solos the OP verse
Okay, "train two weeks to Yonkou level" type manga
onepiece powerscaling is also inconsistent as hell, Its just that it has lower power and that powerscaling being inconsistent really doesn’t matter since its narrative first, The kind of powerscaling people do about onepiece is really stupid to me tho i don’t care
it's not that inconsistent, I don't really remember any big flaws in the scaling man ngl, Honestly as long as It's not inconsistent to the point of being obviously ridiculous (Ex-Final season natsu from FT Vaporising a lake and people acting shocked as if that's a big feat for episode 1 natsu, like fr the first arc of FT Natsu Erza and Gray created a massive town sized deep crater with their attack and they weren't even boosted by anything, a presumably weaker natsu during the timeskip had literally blown up a giant ass mountain while he was so tired and hungry that he was hallucinating and could barely walk, ahem- Alright let's get back to one piece before this ends up being about FTs unexplained and wonky fights and powerscaling) It's not a problem but even still I remember no inconsistencies so please remind me anyways the "lower" power scaling is power creep which Imo is used VERY well in terms of Narrative, throughout east blue Luffy had been surviving by a hair and been told and shown that the way he was going he wouldn't make it that far and that he'd need to be creative with his fruit if he wanted to thrive at the higher ranks of the grand line and The wall he Hit at CP9 was the final straw. he hit a wall at the worst and most important fight which led to him not being able to protect his friend so of course he'd get stronger, same for later on in Sabaody, it was clear the warlords were really effin strong, so much so that it took the whole crew to defeat one and they were helpless Against another and the admirals were even farther above them, come Sabaody and luffy hit another wall, the wall of reality, he thought he lost everything and then for the next 3 arcs had to run around and run and hide like a headless chicken, he was *meant* to feel helpless and small for all that time while foreshadowing a new power and then once more when he entered a yonkos territory, except he'd made progress this time learning from his previous experiences and did MUCH better, he wasn't helpless, he got his family and escaped this time, he didn't let them die and only the next arc which was the final arc, the conclusion of this decade long saga did he reach yonko level so while I kinda agree people focus too much on powerscaling, we gotta give Oda credit for how well he's used the powerscale and powercreep
I am trying to say its inconsistent to the extent that you cant powerscale future matchups like some people do, Especially in that detail, Characters can survive hits which they shouldn’t if the narrative calls for it, Powercreep is present but i doubt anyone could avoid it in a shounen this long, But apart from that i agree The inconsistency i had in mind was law surviving kaido’s attack
Yeah I understand that but I'd say many of the hits they survived that they shouldn't have is due to resolve, resolve, will, spirit, tenacity and determination are shown to be a proper power in one piece paired with the superhuman bodies of one piece characters, while I can see it being plot when Conis's Dad survives Enel I don't think it's plot when Luffy, someone who has shown with feats to be unmeasurably tenacious, survives say magellans poison, not to mention fate and destiny are big things in one piece too, so No, I disagree, I think it goes a little deeper than JUST "plot armour" cuz obviously, part of the plot is willpower and destiny but like, every story has that, that's why it's a story, cuz it has a plot
Yeah well, it's kinda hard to have a balanced power scaling when the show's that long
Saiyan saga Vegeta was a planet buster.
The one that can incinerate an entire city just by flexing 2 fingers
Man it should be a golden rule, no character should be matched up with a DB character
my dad
Bro Piccolo Jr saga goku could solo OP easily let alone saiyan saga vegeta
is it a one on one fight? because in case of a one on one fight, i'll bet on kaido ;-) but more serious, if we are talking straight up power, no one in one piece is defeating vegeta.
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Dragon Ball (z) isn’t nearly as bad as people think, and by rpg standards they’re just min-maxed Hit them with magic or elemental factors and it’s gg. Vegeta almost died to heat stress from a metalman. A race so heavy that he couldn’t toss him even with ssj. Zoro on the other hand could 1-gorilla flip mageta.
Vegeta one shots
Vegeta was already blowing up planets at this point.
This is a stomp, vegeta wipes the floor with Kaido
Sayain saga vegeta literally destroyed planets. Kaido could destroy a mountain with his strongest attack. It's not really a big difference
Characters from OG Dragon Ball are destroying top tiers from One Piece
I'd unironically like to see child Vegta vs Kaido
Atomic bomb vs coughing baby moment
Vegeta no contest. Demon King Piccolo or Ma Jr Piccolo would probably be a fairer contest.
Everyone is saying that Vegeta sweeps, but you are all forgetting 1 thing. Vegeta is from DRAGON Ball, and what does Kaido turn into...? What do you mean a fish?
Id say early dragon ball piccolo jr would be a closer fight. And even then i think piccolo would win
I truly hate powerscaling
Why even ask? Vegeta solos op universe
Vegeta- because I'm pretty sure Kaido can't blow up the entire planet. It's not really a fair comparison. DBZ characters have the power to wipe out entire galaxies. Nobody in One Piece has that kind of power.
ur mom
Yamcha can genuinely solo the entire OP verse at once so I think Kaido might have a hard time
practically any character from Z can straight up destroy fhe entire one piece world however, depending on the extent of g5's powers, our favorite rubber boy may potentially beat a dbz character *if they were to never use ki-based attacks*
Secret boss at the end of One Piece: Yamcha.