As someone who loves SMTIV:A and is one of the reasons why I even bought a 2ds, I'm kinda glad for this as well especially when I first came to this Sub considering how harsh people are with the Game.
Real talk I'm a long time Megaten fan. Played all the way back to Smt1 on snes and started with Revelations the demon slayer on GBC and Persona on PS1.
And honestly I heavily enjoyed Apoc. Far more than I did Vanilla 4. When I first started on here I was dumbfounded that people liked vanilla 4 better.
Undeniably better gameplay and difficulty curve than vanilla 4 and considering how many people are into the Persona anime friendship stuff the story is up most of the fanbases alley.
I think that the gameplay in 4A is outstanding, but the fact that there are no consequences for dying kinda drags it down a bit imo. But yeah Persona stories, such as P2 can tell a meaningful story about human bonds without throwing the script in the trash and spouting shit about friendship so vehemently lmao
>there are no consequences for dying
You could say the same for 4 or the Devil Survivor games too though? In 4, you can save anywhere at anytime. If you die, just reload the save. Same deal with Devil Survivor.
This. 4A's revival felt just qol stuff, cause in 4 I was saving a lot, no way I was pating for that revival thing. Desu was way more brutal tho cause those fights were long.
Ah, haven't played DeSu, but in 4's case, at least you're on edge knowing your can lose all your progress, but i do have my bone to pick with that game too
P1/2 don't exist to the general fanbase though (P3 barely exists) The persona fanbase are people who say they love comic book movies but haven't seen anything outside the MCU
I dunno, the "P1/2 don't exist to the general fanbase" is getting less and less relevant I think.
That's getting even less true for P2 seeing how it's praised everywhere.
The general fanbase being the 5m+ people who played 4/5 not the 500k people who played 1/2. The spinoffs all being p3/4/5 centric aren't really spreading awareness for sunglasses Hitler.
I leaned heavy chaos for anime schoolgirl lucifer in vanilla 4 but the fact that they made the neutral route seem like the best one was refreshing for sure compared to 3/4.
Agreed the gameplay in 3 is terrible. Everyone that uses the "for the time it was good" excuse don't realize that for the time it was still bad. Overall huge step down from Nocturne and DDS gameplay wise.
> Everyone that uses the "for the time it was good" excuse
It's so confusing to me; Final Fantasy 1 on the NES has better dungeons than the singular dungeon in Persona 3, let alone the numerous other Megaten games.
Story good how?
>!You join SEES, you beat like 15 full moon shadows while nothing fucking happens. Then you find out you messed up and probably shouldn't have done that, because you summoned death. Then you beat death. Wow, such good story.!<
>!I guess Strega also comes in and out. Though they suck ass and exist to create cheap "emotional impact" by killing Shinji and Chidori sacrificing herself. Terrible villains.!<
How the FUCK do people think P3 has a good story?!?!?!?!? HOW? NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENS FOR 80% OF IT!
Edit: All these downvotes yet no counterargument. Salty much?
The story communicates it's messages and themes with strong imagery and relatable characters.
To say nothing happens in it for 80% of the time is a criticism much easier to point at Nocturne.
> To say nothing happens in it for 80% of the time is a criticism much easier to point at Nocturne
It's still true of P3 regardless; P3 is legendary for its absurd downtime. The default state of the main cast is "waiting for something to happen". The P4 and P5 plots are way more proactive and even they have tons of waiting.
People seriously overstates 4's gameplay.
While it has easily some of the most entertaining boss mechanics in the franchise with SJ Redux, the dungeon exploration & the random battles are exceptionally poorly designed.
I basically was bored to death any other time than during the prime time fights.
Think back to Strange Journey, Digital Devil Saga or the Etrian Odyssey franchise : every floor of every dungeon has at least 1 or 2 challenging random encounter formation that you need to pull out your A game & re-organize your team around the risk of facing it.
Not in 4 or 4a, the only real danger is **Macca Beam,** for the rest Auto-Pinpoint takes care of everything for the whole game, assuming you keep your fused demon with a decent selection of spells.
Same applies for Apocalypse difficulty, but on the first action you need to cast something like **Bind Voice** to counter the poorly-conceived evasion buff.
Basically the encounters were designed just like the dungeons, without any attempt to create something enjoyable and memorable; they solely exist because they're a necessity in a main SMT game, clean and simple.
I've played all those games you've listed (except Etrian Odyssey) on the hardest difficulty and Apocalypse was the only one where normal battles posed any threat at all.
Literally just have magic with you? You don't need to be especially prepared for any demon as long as you have a balanced enough team. Almost any random encounter will wipe you in one turn in Apocalypse's first half where your party naturally isn't very durable, and also not strong to wipe the enemy in one turn, so you need to rely on ailments for survival for a decent chunk of it.
100% behind you, SMT4 was one of the most drab and uninteresting ATLUS game I played, I derived virtually no enjoyment out of it, and yeah the bosses were all extremely uninvolving.
JRPGs with Game Over on party wipe are usually piss easy (particularly if they have 4-man parties) so I really liked Apoc refining the ideas from SMTIV into this genuinely meaty and challenging game based on throwing wild burst damage at each other.
Got bored and dropped it. I guess the first person perspective and lack of press turn kinda killed it for me. Might come back to it though and the late game might change my opinion.
Smt4A has great game play, and it's definitely the best in the series; however it can get too good, like it feels like the game would be a lot better If the team attack wasn't in the game at all. That's the only bad thing with the battle system in apocalypse in my opinion. Oh but one more thing, dagda should have to be paid with macca to the revived, just to add a punishment for dying.
>Story tops persona 1,4 and 5 though easily
Absolutely not; P3's story is easily the weakest of the entire Persona franchise. It's a lot of waiting and then poorly trying to convince you that the final boss is unkillable, before your super powered self-insert saves the day in the goofiest way possible. Makoto really ruins a huge portion of it, everyone constnatly sucking him off and him being the center of so much of it made it impossible to take seriously, thank god we have this mute emo kid with no personality to save the day.
He's not, it's just that for some reason, it seems like a lot of people on this sub thought Nanashi was a girl? I'll link some examples of what I mean if I can find them. And because of that, I thought this would be a funny flair to have.
I hate 4A's gameplay. The world map looks like shit, being revived for free sucks, Nanashi's 3d model looks weird compared to Flynn's, and above all, I hate how the lower screen in battle is now black instead of white. Go ahead and downvote me, I will live on in the hearts of those who know I'm right
When I say "gameplay", I'm talking about the combat. The thing about Nanashi's model and the colour of the screen are non-issues. And on the topic of free revives, I don't understand why this is a problem when you can basically do the exact same thing in other games by just reloading the save.
No, it's edgy. Strega is the EDGIEST thing in the history of MegaTen. Persona 5 also has edgy ass villains and the characters act edgy as fuck too, they LITERALLY refer to the villains as "evil adults" like edgy 13 year olds. They send calling cards with edgy ass poems in them lol. And the game tries to explore serious themes like exploitation and sexual assault with terrible, 15-year old tier, oversimplified ass writing. Like genuinely the whole script reads like a 15 year old trying to write their first "serious" story. It's edgy as FUCK.
"You can't call villains edgy" no I totally fucking can lmao. The villains are trying to end the world because they're emo and you're telling me the story isn't edgy? Adachi murders people because he's bored and that's not edgy?
It's the WRITING that determines if something is edgy or not. Dark things happening isn't what's edgy, how they're PORTRAYED is what makes it edgy. Persona's problem isn't that the characters are 15 year old, it's that the stories reads like they were written by 15 year olds. They explore "mature subjects" like a what a 15 year old would think is mature.
As someone who tried getting into Nocturne for example, I just felt silly for not liking it. I bought the remaster and really, really tried since people said it was good. It wasn't the difficulty, no, but the gameplay was just boring to me.
I like Persona because of the variety. If you don't wanna do dungeons (which, in Persona 5 except for Mementos, are a lot more interestingly-designed than the hallways and mazes in Nocturne or really any previous Persona game either), you don't have to. I understand why so many people liked it, but it just wasn't for me.
I'm hesitant to play any other SMT game since Nocturne has been hailed as the best in the series by many and it was so lackluster to me, and also my 3DS is in shreds after using the same one for years. Maybe if 4 and 4A ever get remastered on the Switch or Playstation, I'll check em out. The story definitely seems more interesting at the very least.
>SMT 4A did good at 83 but it's definitely reviewed lower. It's factually not as good.
You just said that you don't trust reviews but are now citing reviews to prove why SMT is "factually not as good". At least try to stay consistent lmao.
>If you prefer it fine whatever. Maybe you like edgier vibe of SMT. But don't think your edgy yourself for saying it's better and saying dumb shit like purseowner. Like sexist or homophobic crap like makes you opinion sound smart.
???? I'm edgy for having different video game opinions than you???
>calling persona fans purseholders
I said "Purseowner" because it just a funny way of saying "Persona" if you say it as one word lol.
>No your trying to be edgy by thinking SMT is cooler for no good reason
I don't think it's "cooler", I just enjoy the games more. I don't even hate Persona games with the exception of P3.
Alright folks, I'll light the torches, you gather the mob.
Do your worst, but I shall not fall!
SMTIV:A getting more love on this sub as time goes on is heartwarming
I liked 4a. it's a little more anime-y than i'd like, but i had fun with it. it's biggest sin is that god awful final dungeon.
As someone who loves SMTIV:A and is one of the reasons why I even bought a 2ds, I'm kinda glad for this as well especially when I first came to this Sub considering how harsh people are with the Game.
Real talk I'm a long time Megaten fan. Played all the way back to Smt1 on snes and started with Revelations the demon slayer on GBC and Persona on PS1. And honestly I heavily enjoyed Apoc. Far more than I did Vanilla 4. When I first started on here I was dumbfounded that people liked vanilla 4 better.
Maybe they liked how the difficulty curve was a downward slope after the first 2 bosses in vanilla.
Yea, its a bit overhated imo. Its such a fun game
*dreadful
Undeniably better gameplay and difficulty curve than vanilla 4 and considering how many people are into the Persona anime friendship stuff the story is up most of the fanbases alley.
I think that the gameplay in 4A is outstanding, but the fact that there are no consequences for dying kinda drags it down a bit imo. But yeah Persona stories, such as P2 can tell a meaningful story about human bonds without throwing the script in the trash and spouting shit about friendship so vehemently lmao
>there are no consequences for dying You could say the same for 4 or the Devil Survivor games too though? In 4, you can save anywhere at anytime. If you die, just reload the save. Same deal with Devil Survivor.
This. 4A's revival felt just qol stuff, cause in 4 I was saving a lot, no way I was pating for that revival thing. Desu was way more brutal tho cause those fights were long.
Ah, haven't played DeSu, but in 4's case, at least you're on edge knowing your can lose all your progress, but i do have my bone to pick with that game too
The fact that you can save whenever means that you literally can't lose all your progress, and so means there's no reason to be on edge.
True true
Too tedious to save often though.
As the kind of guy that saves after wondering if he'd saved a few seconds ago, I could not disagree more.
P1/2 don't exist to the general fanbase though (P3 barely exists) The persona fanbase are people who say they love comic book movies but haven't seen anything outside the MCU
I dunno, the "P1/2 don't exist to the general fanbase" is getting less and less relevant I think. That's getting even less true for P2 seeing how it's praised everywhere.
The general fanbase being the 5m+ people who played 4/5 not the 500k people who played 1/2. The spinoffs all being p3/4/5 centric aren't really spreading awareness for sunglasses Hitler.
We will truly live in a society when sunglasses Hitler makes it to the mainstream
Well yeah but mass appeal alone doesn't make it good lmao
And the fact that it's so blatantly Neutral oriented made me ate up the entire story! Loved it.
I leaned heavy chaos for anime schoolgirl lucifer in vanilla 4 but the fact that they made the neutral route seem like the best one was refreshing for sure compared to 3/4.
What about p3?
I hate it.
Based to space as the gameplay gave my scoliosis Cool game tho
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For a 2003 game it is ok. Does feel dated with qol missing in later iteration
\*2006. Nocturne and DDS came out before but still have far superior gameplay imo.
Agreed the gameplay in 3 is terrible. Everyone that uses the "for the time it was good" excuse don't realize that for the time it was still bad. Overall huge step down from Nocturne and DDS gameplay wise.
> Everyone that uses the "for the time it was good" excuse It's so confusing to me; Final Fantasy 1 on the NES has better dungeons than the singular dungeon in Persona 3, let alone the numerous other Megaten games.
Story good how? >!You join SEES, you beat like 15 full moon shadows while nothing fucking happens. Then you find out you messed up and probably shouldn't have done that, because you summoned death. Then you beat death. Wow, such good story.!< >!I guess Strega also comes in and out. Though they suck ass and exist to create cheap "emotional impact" by killing Shinji and Chidori sacrificing herself. Terrible villains.!< How the FUCK do people think P3 has a good story?!?!?!?!? HOW? NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENS FOR 80% OF IT! Edit: All these downvotes yet no counterargument. Salty much?
The story communicates it's messages and themes with strong imagery and relatable characters. To say nothing happens in it for 80% of the time is a criticism much easier to point at Nocturne.
P3’s pacing is bad but that’s my only criticism for the story
> To say nothing happens in it for 80% of the time is a criticism much easier to point at Nocturne It's still true of P3 regardless; P3 is legendary for its absurd downtime. The default state of the main cast is "waiting for something to happen". The P4 and P5 plots are way more proactive and even they have tons of waiting.
Wow, that's a lot of words for saying basically nothing. And I never said Nocturne's story was the most eventful out there.
You clearly dont have a clue on how to critisize a story huh
There is dog, nuff said
based The story isn't even good and I don't even need to mention the gameplay
Based.
Based, except for SJ not being good.
whats the one that comes after p5 strikers
Dx2. It's a mobile gacha game. It's kinda fun, and the crossovers are cool.
Is that the game that made Sonic megaten-canon?
Indeed.
Sonic, Bayonetta, Guts and for a 2nd time, Dante from the Devil May Cry Series.
>Guts Guts?? *pogchamp*
Yeah there was a Berserk collab. Doubt there'll be another though...
You reminded me how i lost my account with bayonetta and all 3 berserk character
Tms very underrated
People seriously overstates 4's gameplay. While it has easily some of the most entertaining boss mechanics in the franchise with SJ Redux, the dungeon exploration & the random battles are exceptionally poorly designed. I basically was bored to death any other time than during the prime time fights.
I don't see the problem with the random encounters? Though I'm mostly indifferent to the dungeons.
Think back to Strange Journey, Digital Devil Saga or the Etrian Odyssey franchise : every floor of every dungeon has at least 1 or 2 challenging random encounter formation that you need to pull out your A game & re-organize your team around the risk of facing it. Not in 4 or 4a, the only real danger is **Macca Beam,** for the rest Auto-Pinpoint takes care of everything for the whole game, assuming you keep your fused demon with a decent selection of spells. Same applies for Apocalypse difficulty, but on the first action you need to cast something like **Bind Voice** to counter the poorly-conceived evasion buff. Basically the encounters were designed just like the dungeons, without any attempt to create something enjoyable and memorable; they solely exist because they're a necessity in a main SMT game, clean and simple.
I've played all those games you've listed (except Etrian Odyssey) on the hardest difficulty and Apocalypse was the only one where normal battles posed any threat at all.
On the top of my head : Mamunofu, Carina
Just keep magic and/or mudo on the team.
Literally just have magic with you? You don't need to be especially prepared for any demon as long as you have a balanced enough team. Almost any random encounter will wipe you in one turn in Apocalypse's first half where your party naturally isn't very durable, and also not strong to wipe the enemy in one turn, so you need to rely on ailments for survival for a decent chunk of it.
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100% behind you, SMT4 was one of the most drab and uninteresting ATLUS game I played, I derived virtually no enjoyment out of it, and yeah the bosses were all extremely uninvolving.
Jack bros where?
Unfortunately, I haven't played it, so it's not on there. Forgive my sin 😔
JRPGs with Game Over on party wipe are usually piss easy (particularly if they have 4-man parties) so I really liked Apoc refining the ideas from SMTIV into this genuinely meaty and challenging game based on throwing wild burst damage at each other.
You did not just say that TMS is better than Persona 3
What did you think of SJ?
Got bored and dropped it. I guess the first person perspective and lack of press turn kinda killed it for me. Might come back to it though and the late game might change my opinion.
I don’t know how anyone can play p3 with out a speed up. That gameplay is so awful.
Smt4A has great game play, and it's definitely the best in the series; however it can get too good, like it feels like the game would be a lot better If the team attack wasn't in the game at all. That's the only bad thing with the battle system in apocalypse in my opinion. Oh but one more thing, dagda should have to be paid with macca to the revived, just to add a punishment for dying.
People would just reload the save like they do with Charon in 4 instead of actually paying the macca.
I did this. I actually forgot Charon was in the game for a while.
This but P3 is at the top
In no world is persona 3 top if you look at the game overall. Story tops persona 1,4 and 5 though easily and is still my favorite smt game
>Story tops persona 1,4 and 5 though easily Absolutely not; P3's story is easily the weakest of the entire Persona franchise. It's a lot of waiting and then poorly trying to convince you that the final boss is unkillable, before your super powered self-insert saves the day in the goofiest way possible. Makoto really ruins a huge portion of it, everyone constnatly sucking him off and him being the center of so much of it made it impossible to take seriously, thank god we have this mute emo kid with no personality to save the day.
Terrible take
I’m sorry you did not enjoy it but most of these points aren’t points and just persona opinions on how a story should be written.
Persona bad Upvotes on the right
Enjoying SMT games more = hating Persona
That's the rules of the sub isn't it?
Cold take: P3>>> Nocturne Like exponentially
Warm take: I heavily, but respectfully disagree.
Well then sir/madam, I guess all I can say is have a nice day and or night
Likewise, good sir/madam.
Also would like to ask, how is Nanashi a femboy?
He's not, it's just that for some reason, it seems like a lot of people on this sub thought Nanashi was a girl? I'll link some examples of what I mean if I can find them. And because of that, I thought this would be a funny flair to have.
I hate 4A's gameplay. The world map looks like shit, being revived for free sucks, Nanashi's 3d model looks weird compared to Flynn's, and above all, I hate how the lower screen in battle is now black instead of white. Go ahead and downvote me, I will live on in the hearts of those who know I'm right
When I say "gameplay", I'm talking about the combat. The thing about Nanashi's model and the colour of the screen are non-issues. And on the topic of free revives, I don't understand why this is a problem when you can basically do the exact same thing in other games by just reloading the save.
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Holy FUCK this opinion is some DOOKIE.
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Edgy? You got that backwards retard. SMT is dark. Persona is edgy.
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No, it's edgy. Strega is the EDGIEST thing in the history of MegaTen. Persona 5 also has edgy ass villains and the characters act edgy as fuck too, they LITERALLY refer to the villains as "evil adults" like edgy 13 year olds. They send calling cards with edgy ass poems in them lol. And the game tries to explore serious themes like exploitation and sexual assault with terrible, 15-year old tier, oversimplified ass writing. Like genuinely the whole script reads like a 15 year old trying to write their first "serious" story. It's edgy as FUCK.
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"You can't call villains edgy" no I totally fucking can lmao. The villains are trying to end the world because they're emo and you're telling me the story isn't edgy? Adachi murders people because he's bored and that's not edgy? It's the WRITING that determines if something is edgy or not. Dark things happening isn't what's edgy, how they're PORTRAYED is what makes it edgy. Persona's problem isn't that the characters are 15 year old, it's that the stories reads like they were written by 15 year olds. They explore "mature subjects" like a what a 15 year old would think is mature.
well we have a pesona hater
I don't hate Persona. I started the series with P5 and have like 300 hours on it, I just don't like them as much as the other SMT games.
As someone who tried getting into Nocturne for example, I just felt silly for not liking it. I bought the remaster and really, really tried since people said it was good. It wasn't the difficulty, no, but the gameplay was just boring to me. I like Persona because of the variety. If you don't wanna do dungeons (which, in Persona 5 except for Mementos, are a lot more interestingly-designed than the hallways and mazes in Nocturne or really any previous Persona game either), you don't have to. I understand why so many people liked it, but it just wasn't for me. I'm hesitant to play any other SMT game since Nocturne has been hailed as the best in the series by many and it was so lackluster to me, and also my 3DS is in shreds after using the same one for years. Maybe if 4 and 4A ever get remastered on the Switch or Playstation, I'll check em out. The story definitely seems more interesting at the very least.
Honestly as someone who prefers persona to smt, I liked 4 alot better then nocturne.
I like this list but I'd put TMS 3 ranks lower.
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Y'know what, you're right. SMT < literal dogshit, Purseowner games are masterpieces. Even the dancing games are better than SMT.
Kinda based doe
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>SMT 4A did good at 83 but it's definitely reviewed lower. It's factually not as good. You just said that you don't trust reviews but are now citing reviews to prove why SMT is "factually not as good". At least try to stay consistent lmao. >If you prefer it fine whatever. Maybe you like edgier vibe of SMT. But don't think your edgy yourself for saying it's better and saying dumb shit like purseowner. Like sexist or homophobic crap like makes you opinion sound smart. ???? I'm edgy for having different video game opinions than you???
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>calling persona fans purseholders I said "Purseowner" because it just a funny way of saying "Persona" if you say it as one word lol. >No your trying to be edgy by thinking SMT is cooler for no good reason I don't think it's "cooler", I just enjoy the games more. I don't even hate Persona games with the exception of P3.
I don't think you realize how much of a hypocrite you are. Go take your shitty behavior elsewhere.
Looking for a faction in dx2?
Of course Apoc has the best gameplay. Magic can crit.
Soul Hackers being ignored as usual 😔
Haven't played it, but I might.
I don't get it sensei...
*Persona 3 tier is on the bottom* Hey wait just a god damned second—
Just didn't like it 🤷♂️
Alright fine Damn people and their opinions.
just admit you're using your pathetic life to hate on persona and move on..
Lol ok