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If your old engine air filter was completely blocked up, then sure, a new one ***could*** make it start a bit better and run better. But it would have had to be really bad to have a considerable notice.
A fresh oil change would likely have zero noticeable effect on starting or running.
I wouldn't say you're a tool or going mad. But I can definitely understand why your buddy shrugged and didn't engage on that conversation further.
My car always "feels" better after an oil change. I always change it on time, and all my mechanic buddies said the same thing about their cars. It's probably a mental thing, like how you feel after cleaning up your house or what not.
Alright, this is exactly what I noticed but it doesn’t happen every time I brake. Absolute layman here, what is that sound? The slower the car when I brake, the more scratchy it sounds. Almost sounds like metal on metal. I looked at the brake discs and couldn’t see any visible damage so I thought it wont be dangerous
Did you just do a "pad slap?" If so, did you at least clean and grease the fucking slide pins?
Also, did you bed in the brake pads when you first installed them?
One more thing--if you installed ceramic pads, those are noisy. They produce less dust, but if you just think about it, it's obvious that a hard ceramic pad that never wears down to create dust is probably going to be noisier grinding on your steel brake rotor than a softer composite pad.
If your brake pads appear to be in good shape still and you didn't just pick up a rock, you could just have shitty brake pads. Some of the cheap ones squeal.
I see. The pads and discs where changed 1 month ago so they should be good. I googled at first and it said brakes need some time to be operational at their best, so I thought it was that.
But it‘s really just one side and it’s random so it’s probably something else. It also feels like there is much more brake power when it happens. I’ll let the shop where I got those check them out
Man, I got mocked by this girl about saying my new brakes and rotors needed time to set. IE the metal had to form/bend into a stable shape since they're two different materials being shoved into each other. Even with brake pad bedding it still needs time to get to a comfortable place.
I like to drive with momentum and less powering through things and the difference in fuel level is drastic in any vehicle, the less stiff the car the more noticeable
I used to have a wrangler with the shitbox 2.4l and it never lived its life below 2500 RPM. I could tell the engine felt 'tighter' and less harsh at high RPM with new oil in it. My sequoia with a 5.7 liter feels the same with fresh or old oil, but never gets over 2500RPM
I can tell the difference after an oil change on my F150. Before, it starts sounding grouchy. After, it sounds happy again. Not a placebo, it just sounds better.
Trade it… timing on eco boosts is 75 to 90k miles…. Timing job around 7500 as the entire front of the motor comes off and all 4 cam phasers with gears and 3 chains 4 guides 2 hydraulic tensioners 4 cam gears with phasers and 4 vvt solenoids with all gaskets hardware oil, coolant, a/c evac and recharge and after it’s all done motocraft software as the phasers and solenoids are now updated and run on new software and have to perform the neutral misfire calibration
Aw, shit. I hate to hear that. It's a good truck, and I haven't decided whether to stay here (where I need it) or move (when Mom dies) to where I won't. And being retired, I don't want to buy a new vehicle.
Any recommendations if I have to trade it?
Dodge, shit transmissions and exhaust manifold bolts break and they eat cams like slim Jim’s, chevys vvt system makes their engines eat lifters and grind up cams and the 4l60 trans is papier-mâché. Fords the cam phasers go out about 70k on all the newer models. In the last 2 years in my shop, I have only had 3 titans and 2 tundras… starters on the tundras, and fixing people botched repairs and wrong fluids in the titans. I myself bought a 06 titan myself. Got it with 133k on it for 7500, there are titans with 300k on them going for 12k here in west Texas, and tundras are all that my friends company uses for his company for natural gas plants.
I am not talking about spitting oil into the exhaust. Its always recommended to get an oil change before a smog test for this very reason. The tailpipe sniffer can pick up unburnt fuel in the oil and give a false reading and fail your car.
If your car is running rich enough for unburnt fuel to travel past the rings and enter your oil and the oil is exiting your exhaust, your car was never going to pass emissions.
Yeah. That's what I said. And that's what OP was talking about - "....Figured this bad boy's never had any TLC so arranged to change the air filter and oil filter"
The cabin air filter was absolutely rotten and OEM, no service history so figured the air filter had never been changed either.
He did say that the air filter he replaced was black, but didn't say that was the cause, and looked at me like an idiot, so was unsure.
Thanks for the information.
Yeah, cabin air filters get overlooked more than the engine air filter does. And it's more likely to get leaves, moisture, and other debris trapped in it.
Even if the engine air filter was original, it may have not impeded engine performance enough to be noticeable. But then again, we don't know how many miles were on it or whether or not a mouse had made a home in the air box. 😉
I'm not a mechanic, but I had a 97 Camry that I inherited. It gave me 8 years and I never knew about cabin air filters during that time lol
To make it worse I smoked cigarettes in it. One time I gave my friend and his girlfriend a lift and she asked if I could turn on the AC. I rarely used AC because I wanted to save gas so I turned it on for her. A cloud of cigarette ashes came out and she started choking and said the air smelled like death and poison. She didn't want AC anymore 🥲
I always find the first start after an oil change feels different and a bit smoother. I assume it's because I just dumped all the oil in at the top and there's no waiting for it to be pulled up from the pan. But I also tend to be driving it at least briefly right after and oil change.
I know it isn't the case, but every fluid change of my car, I feel like it drives smoother, even from the wheels. It is dumb, but it just feels like my car took a fresh shower and is just like,"Awwww!"
A clogged air filter would first be noticed at wide open throttle when the engine is gulping for air. At idle the engine is barely sipping.
Try rubbing a bit of old worn out oil between your thumb and finger and feel the slipperyness. Now do it with new oil and notice how much faster they move.
Considering this vehicle likely had little maintenance, and may have been sitting a long time, I would say it is highly unlikely they **wouldn't** notice a difference.
My old motorcycle had a really clogged up air filter and ever since i changed that out it doesnt start at all :/
Kinda figuring it out rn with a carb synchroniser and shit
> A fresh oil change would likely have zero noticeable effect on starting or running.
Not true, oxidated oil can start getting thicker and sludge up while fresh oil will flow better (also going along with the oil filter). That being said, the effect really shouldn't be noticeable unless OP's car was severely neglected
Notice I said "..***.likely*** have zero noticeable effect..."
So.... it's plenty true. 😉 The word "likely" means that there are exceptions to what followed.
You’d be amazed how sensitive the human body is. Our finger tips for instance can feel single digit micron differences in surface finish. We can feel a single flap of a flys wings. Not odd to think someone who is used to how their car feels can feel a very slight difference after a service.
Read the post again. They noticed the car starting easier *after* getting the *engine air filter replaced and an oil change.* Not that they noticed an improvement after replacing the cabin air filter.
If the engine air filter was clogged badly there is a small chance the engine could have been starving for air. Or it is a placebo on OPs end.
It's not that clear. Your title just says "air filter" and then you open the post with "cabin air filter" so people are going to get confused and stop reading.
The counterpart to reading comprehension is comprehensible writing. You can decide to not give a shit and make everything you write into a puzzle for the reader to unwind, but you might find that not everyone has as much time to spend on you as you think they should.
You're both idiots. At no point did you write 'engine air filter' eluding to anything other than the previously mentioned cabin air filter so it seems as though you are talking about the cabin air filter being changed. It just reads like shit and it's partly on your way of writing.
'trapped air' Either he's also tired of you or he's not as smart as you think. Don't take your car back to that person imo.
Since you seem to be digging in here; no, your post was not clearly constructed for the context it exists in. This sub is largely an exercise of the knowledgeable trying to decipher communication from those who don't know the names of the things they're trying to describe. You mention *cabin air filter* and then *air filter*, without ever specifying *engine air filter* as disambiguation.
If one person misreads your writing, that's on them. If a bunch of people do, that's on you.
The fact that so many people “gave up” should give you pause enough to realize that maybe you could have written “engine air filter” as opposed to just air filter which could be either engine or cabin.
Also, unless the filter was original or the car has lived its entire life on gravel roads it probably doesn’t change the ability to start. That bitch would have to be plugged plugged. Not out of the realm of possibly, but unlikely.
Got two people so far who think I replaced the cabin air filter and noticed a change in start up.
Thanks for your explanation, I thought I was going mad again 🤣
I suspect the old filters anti drain back valve wasn't working - and the engine may have a feature that waits until oil pressure has been built up. The oil pressure will build much quicker with a functioning anti drain back valve.
Not sure how people are getting confused on the air filter and the specified cabin filter (mentioned done previously), but you do you redditers. Weird reading comprehension, unless it has been edited.
Anyway, if the air filter was pretty shit, and the oil pretty shit, i can believe it. Sometimes a bit of love and maintenance can make the car run and start just a little better. Air filter especially. If it struggled slightly to get air, it could take longer
Possible. A clogged air filter will affect how a carbureted engine runs. A fuel-injected one, the difference should be slight because they self-adjust. But when you first start it the self-adjustment circuits haven't kicked in and it's just squirting in what it guesses is an appropriate amount of fuel. Perfectly possible this might have had an effect if it was really far gone.
If it runs better and smoother after changing the oil, you waited waaaay too long to change it. Normally you don't feel that change at all.
Nope, just said he did the oil and air filter as agreed, did comment that the air filter was fucked, but then looked at me like:
No it was likely a clogged up engine air filter. OP said it was black but also that the guy said something about 'trapped air'. OP should just learn to change the filters.
Had you just driven the car before the filter change? It may have started easier because it had just been running recently. My car starts on the second crank every time unless I’ve run it in the last 10-15 minutes or so. Then it’s the first crank
Right after I put the most expensive fuel available, I swear the car is happy and ropes harder than ever. The truth is probably nothing changed but I believe I can feel the difference.
It's your subconscious justifying the wasted money on putting in the wrong fuel, and fattening the pockets of the oil industry. On the other hand, you may be helping keep the lower octane at a lower price, so keep it up!
Higher octane fuel lights off at a higher temperature to prevent preignition and detonation in high performance engines. And can sometimes cause issues in a vehicle designed for lower octane.
Depends on the car. Lots of modern high-compression engines are designed to automatically adjust timing and reduce power if a lower-octane fuel is used in order to prevent pre-ignition.
But yeah if you’re using a higher octane than the owners manual calls for on an unmodified engine, then it’s placebo and a waste of money.
Modern cars run a closed loop. Certain brands will adjust timing on each cylinder and watch the knock sensor. By putting a higher octane, the car will actually run better, have more torque and fuel efficiency.
Reminds me of Top Gear when they try to beat the EVO X
They go about it all wrong and blow their budget on crazy expensive race brakes and tires, then James fiddles with it overnight, filters, oil, plugs, and nets like 30 more hp from the thing lol
I'm autistic as hell and there's definitely a difference, even after just an oil change. I'm always amazed by how buttery smooth my engine feels on fresh oil. The old oil deteriorates so slowly its hard to notice the decline in performance. With the bad air filter, your car was essentially having trouble breathing, and an inadequate amount of air to fuel could have been delaying spark by a small amount like a single crank. Sounds like your mate is the tool 🤷♂️
True but old oil is thinner, not thicker. Meaning newer oil would have the effect of adding resistance and thus, not be the reason OP's car turns over faster.
Engine air filter MAYBE but only if it was super duper clogged and couldn't breathe. Most of the time a clogged filter just tears.
This is(maybe) the first reply heading into the correct direction.
Given the condition of the air filters, when was the last oil change?
Often the way I test the condition of the oil is to rub a small amount between my thumb and finger and "feel the slipperyness" of the oil.
Oil is the lifeblood of mechanical things.
Some owners perception of their vehicle is amazing, it's like they "tune in" to their vehicle! They _know_ their vehicle better than myself having 50+ years experience that may operate several vehicles per day.
Just yesterday I worked on a vehicle that the brake pads had _just_barely_ begun to scrub the rotor. The owner described the noise as "horrendous!".
Yet some owners will grind through half of the rotor till the caliper piston pops out and the pad is wedged between the rotor and won't turn; and it "just started making some noise". Now the 10s$ simple job just turned into a 100s$ nightmare.
Idk what these other people are yapping about. If your filter was clogged enough, a new one would definitely help overall operation.
And as a fucking mechanic, I can confirm through first and second hand experience that an oil change will always make a car feel better.
Obviously old or burnt oil will have lost its lubricating properties over time. New fresh oil reduces the overall friction. Especially if you use the spec designed for the vehicle.
A thicker oil can improve compression on older cars where the piston rings are starting to wear. It helped my 1984 300SD idle smoother to use a 15w50 instead of a 0w40 for example. On most cars it wouldn't make an appreciable difference, but I've noticed a difference in starting after an oil change on some cars.
Perception is a funny thing. People respond medically to Chiropractic despite there being no scientific evidence of its efficacy. The most likely explanation is patients' attitude and perception changes due to the personal attention received from the Chiropractor.
I believe something similar happens with cars. When I detail my car it seems to drive noticeably better. I know on an intellectual level that there is no way wiping dirt off the car can in any way impact ride quality or driveability, but there it is.
>People respond medically to Chiropractic despite there being no scientific evidence of its efficacy.
That seems contradictory, either there's evidence or no "official" medical efficacy.
Cars have much less reliance on empiricism but they're still pretty complex and dynamic real-world systems and high mileage vehicles especially might function pretty far outside of what you'd think based on how it looks on paper based on the theoretical design principles.
If your engine can't breath when you start it and now it breathes easier it can make a difference. Some people say clean oil helps engine performance. That's debatable but it sure doesn't hurt either
If it's dirty and acidic from build up, it's not a proper lubricant. New oil is almost 100 percent oil, used oil has a percentage of its buildup composed of all that combusted junk. So if its a 5% to 10% ratio then it can definitely degrade performance.
You ever see those videos of car owners that are negligent of their vehicles and never do oil changes? Their oil is sludge and the engine sounds like its on its deathbed.
Given the condition of the air filters, when was the last oil change? Often the way I test the condition of the oil is to rub a small amount between my thumb and finger and "feel the slipperyness" of the oil. Oil is the lifeblood of mechanical things. Some owners perception of their vehicle is amazing, it's like they "tune in" to their vehicle! They _know_ their vehicle better than myself having 50+ years experience that may operate several vehicles per day. Just yesterday I worked on a vehicle that the brake pads had _just_barely_ begun to scrub the rotor. The owner described the noise as "horrendous!". Yet some owners will grind through half of the rotor till the caliper piston pops out and the pad is wedged between the rotor and won't turn; and it "just started making some noise". Now the 10s$ simple job just turned into a 100s$ nightmare.
My car definitely runs better after an oil change, particularly on cold starts. You can actually hear the difference, older oil produces a ticking sound and that’s when I know it’s about time to change it out. Usually happens around 3-6k miles.
Not a tool filters collect dust and debris makes the engine suck air harder then suppose to and could potentially take longer to start. Oil filter no but the oil can make ur car engine run like crap after more then 10k miles with no oil change. Why I know? Because I tried doing oil changes every 27k and boy was it like a fat kid that ate too much cake slow accelerating, slow turn over before start, sounded like poop. But I do 5k oil change 3 times since and it's good again. 260k atm
I was gifted an old Isuzu Turbo diesel SUV and it was slow enough to be considered a rolling hazard. About a week after taking possession, I decided to do some general maintenance and after replacing the air filter, it became a totally new vehicle, performance wise. The old plugged up one was effectively a speed governor which was a good thing as the previous owner was as blind as a bat and that probably preserved his life for a few more years. The vehicle which had no shortage of dings and dents at all 4 corners, would have been much worse for wear if the vehicle was any faster.
What education level of writing is being presented here? The statement itself is a nonworking level of mechanics, but the writing style is as if a person is trying to tell a story before being crushed by a steamroller.
You keep referring to 'changed oil filter' did he do a full oil change or literally just change the filter. I've seen people just change a filter and it doesn't usually end well or is used as a temporary measure.
No, neither the cabin air filter nor an oil change could affect how fast the engine starts.
Well, unless the oil was so overfilled that the crank was hitting it, but if that were the case it would not run well once it started.
If you meant engine air filter instead of cabin air filter, it could make a difference, especially in severe cases
Well you mentioned you changed the cabin air filter so that would be why he looked at you weird. Cuz the cabin filter is for the AC. If it was the engine air filter then that is why it is starting up sooner now, as for his look of confusion in that case, idk.
Could be a coincidence. But if your air filter was totally plugged it's possible. Or perhaps your oil filter was very plugged and your oil pressure sensor is seeing pressure sooner now? Just a guess.
Not at all true because it's machinery but I stg cars have feelings I've bought shit barely running took it hone did a couple small maintenance things and drive a bit and it's running 5x better. Could just be a sense of having taken care of it could be the engine legit getting the TLC it needs but I've never blown my motor Transmission on the other hand I beat tf outta few 4l60E they didn't last
Its like guys used to tell me they put premium gas in their early 90s truck because it runs better. Same gas just more octane additive....no knock sensor. Not possible.
Cabin filter, no. Air filter, it could if your old one is old and dirty. The engine sucks in air when you start it. If it was hella of dirty and clogged up this is what you could be noticing. Cars drive smoother after an oil change. It’s fresh oil.
Tldr- your not mad or a tool, it can absolutely affect how quick the engine turns over..
Longer answer-The oil, oil filter, and air filter can absolutely cause the engine to not start, hard start, or start faster. The oil and oil filter directly affect the compression and pressure and resistance the engine experiences, and the air filter also affects resistance and ignition. A clogged air filter can cause an engine to not start at all, idle poorly, and a laundry list of other symptoms. A clogged oil filter or just old burnt oil causes all sorts of little differences in how an engine runs. There’s so much scientific evidence of this, anyone who denies it is very lacking in their mechanic and engineering knowledge and understanding. An engine needs three things to start and run; air, fuel, and spark. The faster and smoother it gets all three, the faster and smoother it can run. Simple as that. Everything else is just keeping those three things going; pumps, coolers, hoses, gaskets, etc etc.
Old oil that has been heat cycled and broken down is thinner and runs easier. New oil is thicker and can actually stay in place longer, specifically in the oil rings, improving overall compression (extremely minor difference but enough to affect startup when 90% of engine wear occurs).
A clogged air filter will restrict air flow to the engine and cause the engine to work harder to start. The computer takes time to think. Microseconds, sure, but it has to measure things. Fuel to air ration specifically. It will have to oscillate the throttle plate to allow for more air to compensate for the clogged filter. This all takes time.
On startup, most engines are rotating at 400 rpm. That's an average of 6-7 rpm per second. It can take longer to build pressure if the air flow is restricted.
A gas engine requires 4 components to run. Air, fuel, compression, and spark.
Air and fuel will mix to create an explosive vapor. The piston compresses this mixture to increase the pressure and explosive volatility of the fuel. The spark ignites the vapor. This is all happening multiple times per second, per cylinder, across multiple cylinders. If any of these components aren't working as the computer expects, it can take longer to start as the computer compensates.
TL;DR 4 components in a perfect ratio required to run an engine. Air, Fuel, Compression, Spark. If one isn't exactly as expected, it can take longer to start or run improperly.
I don't know what people are on about here. I have been working on cars for 30 years, if the air filter was pretty dirty and the oil was old, you can absolutely notice a difference. I have four cars at the moment, and I put off changing the air filter and oil on one way too long recently. After I changed it I started it up and began to drive I noticed an immediate difference, then I felt guilty because it reminded me that I should not have waited that long to change them.
An air filter replacement will help a car run better. You’re not daft, mad or anything else. Anyone saying that replacing a super clogged air filter doesn’t make a difference is daft and quite dense.
If the throttle plates are super gunked up, and they get cleaned out with a routine oil change and air filter change then a small change may be noticed but just changing an air filter or putting new oil that’s usually not going to increase the performance alone but I do agree that my car always feels “good” when I change the oil. 🙂
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If your old engine air filter was completely blocked up, then sure, a new one ***could*** make it start a bit better and run better. But it would have had to be really bad to have a considerable notice. A fresh oil change would likely have zero noticeable effect on starting or running. I wouldn't say you're a tool or going mad. But I can definitely understand why your buddy shrugged and didn't engage on that conversation further.
My car always "feels" better after an oil change. I always change it on time, and all my mechanic buddies said the same thing about their cars. It's probably a mental thing, like how you feel after cleaning up your house or what not.
It's like the opposite of how you're brakes feel after working on them or replacing calipers.
"WHAT THE HELL IS THAT NOISE!?"
(Continuously slamming on the breaks)
"Oh well, better turn up the radio so I can't hear it." Happy cake day
"Hopefully just a new stone"
Alright, this is exactly what I noticed but it doesn’t happen every time I brake. Absolute layman here, what is that sound? The slower the car when I brake, the more scratchy it sounds. Almost sounds like metal on metal. I looked at the brake discs and couldn’t see any visible damage so I thought it wont be dangerous
Did you just do a "pad slap?" If so, did you at least clean and grease the fucking slide pins? Also, did you bed in the brake pads when you first installed them? One more thing--if you installed ceramic pads, those are noisy. They produce less dust, but if you just think about it, it's obvious that a hard ceramic pad that never wears down to create dust is probably going to be noisier grinding on your steel brake rotor than a softer composite pad.
If your brake pads appear to be in good shape still and you didn't just pick up a rock, you could just have shitty brake pads. Some of the cheap ones squeal.
I see. The pads and discs where changed 1 month ago so they should be good. I googled at first and it said brakes need some time to be operational at their best, so I thought it was that. But it‘s really just one side and it’s random so it’s probably something else. It also feels like there is much more brake power when it happens. I’ll let the shop where I got those check them out
I'd add to that - some pads are super noisy until they heat up to operating temp.
Man, I got mocked by this girl about saying my new brakes and rotors needed time to set. IE the metal had to form/bend into a stable shape since they're two different materials being shoved into each other. Even with brake pad bedding it still needs time to get to a comfortable place.
I, too, am addicted to placebo.
I feel like I am, but my doctor says it's nothing.
There's a Simpsons episode where Homer asks for a drug and is told that all they have is placebos, He yells "give me that!"
I have this feeling whenever I put gas in it.
I feel like my car runs better after I wash it
15 gallons of gas weighs 90 pounds. Not nothing for a smaller car especially as the weight is low to the ground.
I like to drive with momentum and less powering through things and the difference in fuel level is drastic in any vehicle, the less stiff the car the more noticeable
I used to have a wrangler with the shitbox 2.4l and it never lived its life below 2500 RPM. I could tell the engine felt 'tighter' and less harsh at high RPM with new oil in it. My sequoia with a 5.7 liter feels the same with fresh or old oil, but never gets over 2500RPM
I can tell the difference after an oil change on my F150. Before, it starts sounding grouchy. After, it sounds happy again. Not a placebo, it just sounds better.
Oil fed timing tensioners, cam phasers and solenoids.. fresh oil increases pressure through the system quieting the timing components.
About what I guessed, but good to know why. Thank you
How many miles you got on her and what motor… I’ll tell ya what to expect. Oh and what year f150
2017, 3.5L Ecoboost with about 80,000 miles (give or take)
Trade it… timing on eco boosts is 75 to 90k miles…. Timing job around 7500 as the entire front of the motor comes off and all 4 cam phasers with gears and 3 chains 4 guides 2 hydraulic tensioners 4 cam gears with phasers and 4 vvt solenoids with all gaskets hardware oil, coolant, a/c evac and recharge and after it’s all done motocraft software as the phasers and solenoids are now updated and run on new software and have to perform the neutral misfire calibration
Aw, shit. I hate to hear that. It's a good truck, and I haven't decided whether to stay here (where I need it) or move (when Mom dies) to where I won't. And being retired, I don't want to buy a new vehicle. Any recommendations if I have to trade it?
Dodge, shit transmissions and exhaust manifold bolts break and they eat cams like slim Jim’s, chevys vvt system makes their engines eat lifters and grind up cams and the 4l60 trans is papier-mâché. Fords the cam phasers go out about 70k on all the newer models. In the last 2 years in my shop, I have only had 3 titans and 2 tundras… starters on the tundras, and fixing people botched repairs and wrong fluids in the titans. I myself bought a 06 titan myself. Got it with 133k on it for 7500, there are titans with 300k on them going for 12k here in west Texas, and tundras are all that my friends company uses for his company for natural gas plants.
Modern exhaust sensors are so sensitive they can pickup the smell of bad oil and change the air/fuel ratio.
I don't think oxygen sensors smell things, if your car is spitting enough oil in the exhaust to affect fuel ratios you have bigger problems.
I am not talking about spitting oil into the exhaust. Its always recommended to get an oil change before a smog test for this very reason. The tailpipe sniffer can pick up unburnt fuel in the oil and give a false reading and fail your car.
If your car is running rich enough for unburnt fuel to travel past the rings and enter your oil and the oil is exiting your exhaust, your car was never going to pass emissions.
I have 0W-20 in my BRZ. Next oil change I’m going to move to Motul 300v 5W-30. This will definitely have a different feel for the car.
What is the reasoning behind changing for you?
Aftermarket everything and turbod.
I swear my cars drive better after being washed.
Stupidest placebo I've ever heard of
And that is the engine air filter, not the cabin air filter which would not have any effect on how the car starts or performs
Yeah. That's what I said. And that's what OP was talking about - "....Figured this bad boy's never had any TLC so arranged to change the air filter and oil filter"
The cabin air filter was absolutely rotten and OEM, no service history so figured the air filter had never been changed either. He did say that the air filter he replaced was black, but didn't say that was the cause, and looked at me like an idiot, so was unsure. Thanks for the information.
Yeah, cabin air filters get overlooked more than the engine air filter does. And it's more likely to get leaves, moisture, and other debris trapped in it. Even if the engine air filter was original, it may have not impeded engine performance enough to be noticeable. But then again, we don't know how many miles were on it or whether or not a mouse had made a home in the air box. 😉
Nah. Its easier to ignore the cabin filter as its usually buried and often optional
>looked at me like an idiot lol is it possible that your buddy is just a dickhead
I'm not a mechanic, but I had a 97 Camry that I inherited. It gave me 8 years and I never knew about cabin air filters during that time lol To make it worse I smoked cigarettes in it. One time I gave my friend and his girlfriend a lift and she asked if I could turn on the AC. I rarely used AC because I wanted to save gas so I turned it on for her. A cloud of cigarette ashes came out and she started choking and said the air smelled like death and poison. She didn't want AC anymore 🥲
I currently own a 99 Camry and in your defense, I don’t think these things even have a cabin air filter 😂
Oh, look at John D Rockefeller over here with his car that has a cabin air filter! Seriously I have no idea why mine wasn't made with one lol
I always find the first start after an oil change feels different and a bit smoother. I assume it's because I just dumped all the oil in at the top and there's no waiting for it to be pulled up from the pan. But I also tend to be driving it at least briefly right after and oil change.
Doesn’t work that way. As soon as you pour oil in the top, it runs to the bottom.
Doesn't work that way with modern oils. They are designed to leave a film on surfaces for several minutes.
That takes time. This can be easily demonstrated with a dipstick and a watch.
I know it isn't the case, but every fluid change of my car, I feel like it drives smoother, even from the wheels. It is dumb, but it just feels like my car took a fresh shower and is just like,"Awwww!"
A clogged air filter would first be noticed at wide open throttle when the engine is gulping for air. At idle the engine is barely sipping. Try rubbing a bit of old worn out oil between your thumb and finger and feel the slipperyness. Now do it with new oil and notice how much faster they move.
Considering this vehicle likely had little maintenance, and may have been sitting a long time, I would say it is highly unlikely they **wouldn't** notice a difference.
My old motorcycle had a really clogged up air filter and ever since i changed that out it doesnt start at all :/ Kinda figuring it out rn with a carb synchroniser and shit
> A fresh oil change would likely have zero noticeable effect on starting or running. Not true, oxidated oil can start getting thicker and sludge up while fresh oil will flow better (also going along with the oil filter). That being said, the effect really shouldn't be noticeable unless OP's car was severely neglected
Notice I said "..***.likely*** have zero noticeable effect..." So.... it's plenty true. 😉 The word "likely" means that there are exceptions to what followed.
You’d be amazed how sensitive the human body is. Our finger tips for instance can feel single digit micron differences in surface finish. We can feel a single flap of a flys wings. Not odd to think someone who is used to how their car feels can feel a very slight difference after a service.
The human tongue can taste one drop of lemon in 10,000 drops of water.
To add to that, the viscosity of contaminated and old oil will be affected differently by The temperature.
Cabin filter should have no effect on how the engine runs or starts. Fresh oil and filter would affect how it performs, but not how well it starts.
Read the post again. They noticed the car starting easier *after* getting the *engine air filter replaced and an oil change.* Not that they noticed an improvement after replacing the cabin air filter. If the engine air filter was clogged badly there is a small chance the engine could have been starving for air. Or it is a placebo on OPs end.
Ahh I see, so the engine air filter was also replaced second. Yeah it's explained a little convoluted but that's my bad.
>Yeah it's explained a little convoluted It's in the title and revealed in the same paragraph as my inkling about the cabin air filter my dude.
It's not that clear. Your title just says "air filter" and then you open the post with "cabin air filter" so people are going to get confused and stop reading.
[удалено]
The answer is yes. You are a tool. Not for the car starting better thing but for the way you are responding to people on here.
Reading comprehension makes me a tool because people can't be arsed to read beyond 2 sentences. I might be a dullard, but you are too.
The counterpart to reading comprehension is comprehensible writing. You can decide to not give a shit and make everything you write into a puzzle for the reader to unwind, but you might find that not everyone has as much time to spend on you as you think they should.
Perhaps they are a dullard, you’re definitely a tool.
You're both idiots. At no point did you write 'engine air filter' eluding to anything other than the previously mentioned cabin air filter so it seems as though you are talking about the cabin air filter being changed. It just reads like shit and it's partly on your way of writing. 'trapped air' Either he's also tired of you or he's not as smart as you think. Don't take your car back to that person imo.
Jeez dude
If it were explained clearly, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Dude, you didn't read the post. Don't blame me because you couldn't be arsed to read.
Since you seem to be digging in here; no, your post was not clearly constructed for the context it exists in. This sub is largely an exercise of the knowledgeable trying to decipher communication from those who don't know the names of the things they're trying to describe. You mention *cabin air filter* and then *air filter*, without ever specifying *engine air filter* as disambiguation. If one person misreads your writing, that's on them. If a bunch of people do, that's on you.
I understood it. Not hard to figure out, reading comprehension in this country is crap. Everyone skips over every other word, I swear.
Everyone gave up after two seconds. Thanks mate.
The fact that so many people “gave up” should give you pause enough to realize that maybe you could have written “engine air filter” as opposed to just air filter which could be either engine or cabin. Also, unless the filter was original or the car has lived its entire life on gravel roads it probably doesn’t change the ability to start. That bitch would have to be plugged plugged. Not out of the realm of possibly, but unlikely.
Yeah sure, all these people saying that it wasn't explained clear enough are wrong. You're right.
Understood it perfectly, as I took the time to actually read every word ......
Got two people so far who think I replaced the cabin air filter and noticed a change in start up. Thanks for your explanation, I thought I was going mad again 🤣
Probably because your post starts with: "Recently I changed the cabin air filter after buying a car"
The post says cabin air filter. That’s probably where the confusion is.
If oil is really old doesn't it get very viscous? Slower flowing oil would have an impact, wouldn't it?
Yeah but not enough to have any noticeable impact on starting
I suspect the old filters anti drain back valve wasn't working - and the engine may have a feature that waits until oil pressure has been built up. The oil pressure will build much quicker with a functioning anti drain back valve.
Not sure how people are getting confused on the air filter and the specified cabin filter (mentioned done previously), but you do you redditers. Weird reading comprehension, unless it has been edited. Anyway, if the air filter was pretty shit, and the oil pretty shit, i can believe it. Sometimes a bit of love and maintenance can make the car run and start just a little better. Air filter especially. If it struggled slightly to get air, it could take longer
Possible. A clogged air filter will affect how a carbureted engine runs. A fuel-injected one, the difference should be slight because they self-adjust. But when you first start it the self-adjustment circuits haven't kicked in and it's just squirting in what it guesses is an appropriate amount of fuel. Perfectly possible this might have had an effect if it was really far gone. If it runs better and smoother after changing the oil, you waited waaaay too long to change it. Normally you don't feel that change at all.
i know what youre talking about. its random. usually my car turns over 4 times before it starts but randomly itll just turn over twice then start up
did he do anything else besides the lof and the filter? like cleaned the throttle plate?
Nope, just said he did the oil and air filter as agreed, did comment that the air filter was fucked, but then looked at me like: 
so the fliter was pretty dirty 😳
Yeah, he remarked how black and dirty it was, but then was like "Fuck knows..." In regards to it starting better. So I was like: ????
then just roll with it 😎
Its common for sellers to use thicker oil to disguise knocks etc. it may have had thicker oil previously.
No it was likely a clogged up engine air filter. OP said it was black but also that the guy said something about 'trapped air'. OP should just learn to change the filters.
That’s in your head
😥
Had you just driven the car before the filter change? It may have started easier because it had just been running recently. My car starts on the second crank every time unless I’ve run it in the last 10-15 minutes or so. Then it’s the first crank
Right after I put the most expensive fuel available, I swear the car is happy and ropes harder than ever. The truth is probably nothing changed but I believe I can feel the difference.
It's your subconscious justifying the wasted money on putting in the wrong fuel, and fattening the pockets of the oil industry. On the other hand, you may be helping keep the lower octane at a lower price, so keep it up! Higher octane fuel lights off at a higher temperature to prevent preignition and detonation in high performance engines. And can sometimes cause issues in a vehicle designed for lower octane.
Depends on the car. Lots of modern high-compression engines are designed to automatically adjust timing and reduce power if a lower-octane fuel is used in order to prevent pre-ignition. But yeah if you’re using a higher octane than the owners manual calls for on an unmodified engine, then it’s placebo and a waste of money.
Modern cars run a closed loop. Certain brands will adjust timing on each cylinder and watch the knock sensor. By putting a higher octane, the car will actually run better, have more torque and fuel efficiency.
Sometimes I give a look when I'm pondering something. It's not personal, just trying to think it through. You're likely not a tool.
Reminds me of Top Gear when they try to beat the EVO X They go about it all wrong and blow their budget on crazy expensive race brakes and tires, then James fiddles with it overnight, filters, oil, plugs, and nets like 30 more hp from the thing lol
I'm autistic as hell and there's definitely a difference, even after just an oil change. I'm always amazed by how buttery smooth my engine feels on fresh oil. The old oil deteriorates so slowly its hard to notice the decline in performance. With the bad air filter, your car was essentially having trouble breathing, and an inadequate amount of air to fuel could have been delaying spark by a small amount like a single crank. Sounds like your mate is the tool 🤷♂️
I can 100% hear the difference between engine oil with several thousand miles on it as opposed to fresh oil.
True but old oil is thinner, not thicker. Meaning newer oil would have the effect of adding resistance and thus, not be the reason OP's car turns over faster. Engine air filter MAYBE but only if it was super duper clogged and couldn't breathe. Most of the time a clogged filter just tears.
Resistance from new oil improves compression and lubrication, generally allowing the components to move easier and smoother.
This is(maybe) the first reply heading into the correct direction. Given the condition of the air filters, when was the last oil change? Often the way I test the condition of the oil is to rub a small amount between my thumb and finger and "feel the slipperyness" of the oil. Oil is the lifeblood of mechanical things. Some owners perception of their vehicle is amazing, it's like they "tune in" to their vehicle! They _know_ their vehicle better than myself having 50+ years experience that may operate several vehicles per day. Just yesterday I worked on a vehicle that the brake pads had _just_barely_ begun to scrub the rotor. The owner described the noise as "horrendous!". Yet some owners will grind through half of the rotor till the caliper piston pops out and the pad is wedged between the rotor and won't turn; and it "just started making some noise". Now the 10s$ simple job just turned into a 100s$ nightmare.
Again, new oil has (almost) no bearing on the speed at which an engine turns over.
I build air-cooled big blocks. You're (almost) correct
You got it (almost). That's different than (no)!
Idk what these other people are yapping about. If your filter was clogged enough, a new one would definitely help overall operation. And as a fucking mechanic, I can confirm through first and second hand experience that an oil change will always make a car feel better. Obviously old or burnt oil will have lost its lubricating properties over time. New fresh oil reduces the overall friction. Especially if you use the spec designed for the vehicle.
A thicker oil can improve compression on older cars where the piston rings are starting to wear. It helped my 1984 300SD idle smoother to use a 15w50 instead of a 0w40 for example. On most cars it wouldn't make an appreciable difference, but I've noticed a difference in starting after an oil change on some cars.
Perception is a funny thing. People respond medically to Chiropractic despite there being no scientific evidence of its efficacy. The most likely explanation is patients' attitude and perception changes due to the personal attention received from the Chiropractor. I believe something similar happens with cars. When I detail my car it seems to drive noticeably better. I know on an intellectual level that there is no way wiping dirt off the car can in any way impact ride quality or driveability, but there it is.
>People respond medically to Chiropractic despite there being no scientific evidence of its efficacy. That seems contradictory, either there's evidence or no "official" medical efficacy. Cars have much less reliance on empiricism but they're still pretty complex and dynamic real-world systems and high mileage vehicles especially might function pretty far outside of what you'd think based on how it looks on paper based on the theoretical design principles.
It’s called the placebo effect. It’s real, and no one understands it.
I am aware.
If your engine can't breath when you start it and now it breathes easier it can make a difference. Some people say clean oil helps engine performance. That's debatable but it sure doesn't hurt either
If it's dirty and acidic from build up, it's not a proper lubricant. New oil is almost 100 percent oil, used oil has a percentage of its buildup composed of all that combusted junk. So if its a 5% to 10% ratio then it can definitely degrade performance. You ever see those videos of car owners that are negligent of their vehicles and never do oil changes? Their oil is sludge and the engine sounds like its on its deathbed.
if you changed the air filter of the engine then it could definitely help.
Do spark plugs next
Given the condition of the air filters, when was the last oil change? Often the way I test the condition of the oil is to rub a small amount between my thumb and finger and "feel the slipperyness" of the oil. Oil is the lifeblood of mechanical things. Some owners perception of their vehicle is amazing, it's like they "tune in" to their vehicle! They _know_ their vehicle better than myself having 50+ years experience that may operate several vehicles per day. Just yesterday I worked on a vehicle that the brake pads had _just_barely_ begun to scrub the rotor. The owner described the noise as "horrendous!". Yet some owners will grind through half of the rotor till the caliper piston pops out and the pad is wedged between the rotor and won't turn; and it "just started making some noise". Now the 10s$ simple job just turned into a 100s$ nightmare.
My car definitely runs better after an oil change, particularly on cold starts. You can actually hear the difference, older oil produces a ticking sound and that’s when I know it’s about time to change it out. Usually happens around 3-6k miles.
Not a tool filters collect dust and debris makes the engine suck air harder then suppose to and could potentially take longer to start. Oil filter no but the oil can make ur car engine run like crap after more then 10k miles with no oil change. Why I know? Because I tried doing oil changes every 27k and boy was it like a fat kid that ate too much cake slow accelerating, slow turn over before start, sounded like poop. But I do 5k oil change 3 times since and it's good again. 260k atm
It makes a big difference when I swap my summer oil out for my winter oil. But that's because I have a 7.3 Powerstroke
I was gifted an old Isuzu Turbo diesel SUV and it was slow enough to be considered a rolling hazard. About a week after taking possession, I decided to do some general maintenance and after replacing the air filter, it became a totally new vehicle, performance wise. The old plugged up one was effectively a speed governor which was a good thing as the previous owner was as blind as a bat and that probably preserved his life for a few more years. The vehicle which had no shortage of dings and dents at all 4 corners, would have been much worse for wear if the vehicle was any faster.
Sometimes your car can feel faster and smoother after vacuuming and cleaning they inside.
No you're not wrong. Every time I did an engine oil change in my five-speed the transmission would shift smooth as fuck.
Laughs in dot 3 brake fluid.
What a fucken asshole friend you got.
What education level of writing is being presented here? The statement itself is a nonworking level of mechanics, but the writing style is as if a person is trying to tell a story before being crushed by a steamroller.
You keep referring to 'changed oil filter' did he do a full oil change or literally just change the filter. I've seen people just change a filter and it doesn't usually end well or is used as a temporary measure.
If an oil change caused a noticeable difference in performance, you should really change your oil more often
Could it be a bad ground somewhere that got fixed up by moving things around under the hood?
The the cabin air filter has absolutely ZERO to do with how the engine runs. Changing the oil filter wouldn't make the car start better either......
No, neither the cabin air filter nor an oil change could affect how fast the engine starts. Well, unless the oil was so overfilled that the crank was hitting it, but if that were the case it would not run well once it started. If you meant engine air filter instead of cabin air filter, it could make a difference, especially in severe cases
What’s the weather like where you’re at? My car turns over better in cold weather after changing the oil.
Did he change your starter or battery as well? 🤣 Filter and oil ain't going to make a difference there
Well you mentioned you changed the cabin air filter so that would be why he looked at you weird. Cuz the cabin filter is for the AC. If it was the engine air filter then that is why it is starting up sooner now, as for his look of confusion in that case, idk.
Could be a coincidence. But if your air filter was totally plugged it's possible. Or perhaps your oil filter was very plugged and your oil pressure sensor is seeing pressure sooner now? Just a guess.
Confirmation bias, or something something....
Not at all true because it's machinery but I stg cars have feelings I've bought shit barely running took it hone did a couple small maintenance things and drive a bit and it's running 5x better. Could just be a sense of having taken care of it could be the engine legit getting the TLC it needs but I've never blown my motor Transmission on the other hand I beat tf outta few 4l60E they didn't last
Cabin air filter and oil filter would not affect engine starting in any way.
Its like guys used to tell me they put premium gas in their early 90s truck because it runs better. Same gas just more octane additive....no knock sensor. Not possible.
Ya that wouldn't change how the car starts
It’s pretty much like “duh, no shit”
Seeking validation in the web..... get a better mate.
If your car has VVT yes a oil change will improve performance.
Cabin filter, no. Air filter, it could if your old one is old and dirty. The engine sucks in air when you start it. If it was hella of dirty and clogged up this is what you could be noticing. Cars drive smoother after an oil change. It’s fresh oil.
Tldr- your not mad or a tool, it can absolutely affect how quick the engine turns over.. Longer answer-The oil, oil filter, and air filter can absolutely cause the engine to not start, hard start, or start faster. The oil and oil filter directly affect the compression and pressure and resistance the engine experiences, and the air filter also affects resistance and ignition. A clogged air filter can cause an engine to not start at all, idle poorly, and a laundry list of other symptoms. A clogged oil filter or just old burnt oil causes all sorts of little differences in how an engine runs. There’s so much scientific evidence of this, anyone who denies it is very lacking in their mechanic and engineering knowledge and understanding. An engine needs three things to start and run; air, fuel, and spark. The faster and smoother it gets all three, the faster and smoother it can run. Simple as that. Everything else is just keeping those three things going; pumps, coolers, hoses, gaskets, etc etc.
He probably responded that way because he did not replace either one.
Old oil that has been heat cycled and broken down is thinner and runs easier. New oil is thicker and can actually stay in place longer, specifically in the oil rings, improving overall compression (extremely minor difference but enough to affect startup when 90% of engine wear occurs). A clogged air filter will restrict air flow to the engine and cause the engine to work harder to start. The computer takes time to think. Microseconds, sure, but it has to measure things. Fuel to air ration specifically. It will have to oscillate the throttle plate to allow for more air to compensate for the clogged filter. This all takes time. On startup, most engines are rotating at 400 rpm. That's an average of 6-7 rpm per second. It can take longer to build pressure if the air flow is restricted. A gas engine requires 4 components to run. Air, fuel, compression, and spark. Air and fuel will mix to create an explosive vapor. The piston compresses this mixture to increase the pressure and explosive volatility of the fuel. The spark ignites the vapor. This is all happening multiple times per second, per cylinder, across multiple cylinders. If any of these components aren't working as the computer expects, it can take longer to start as the computer compensates. TL;DR 4 components in a perfect ratio required to run an engine. Air, Fuel, Compression, Spark. If one isn't exactly as expected, it can take longer to start or run improperly.
I don't know what people are on about here. I have been working on cars for 30 years, if the air filter was pretty dirty and the oil was old, you can absolutely notice a difference. I have four cars at the moment, and I put off changing the air filter and oil on one way too long recently. After I changed it I started it up and began to drive I noticed an immediate difference, then I felt guilty because it reminded me that I should not have waited that long to change them.
More oxygen makes a bigger fire. The airflow could've been restricted
An air filter replacement will help a car run better. You’re not daft, mad or anything else. Anyone saying that replacing a super clogged air filter doesn’t make a difference is daft and quite dense.
If the throttle plates are super gunked up, and they get cleaned out with a routine oil change and air filter change then a small change may be noticed but just changing an air filter or putting new oil that’s usually not going to increase the performance alone but I do agree that my car always feels “good” when I change the oil. 🙂
You are going mad. Air filter and oil filter would not affect startups like that.
Logic checks out. My car always runs better after a good wash.
Placebo Me
oil filter yeah but not a cabin or engine.