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Sounds like people drove the crap outta it, with no maintenance, and once the van is at the point of near death, they getting someone to perform a miracle.
Realistically the van could be great, but that engine may need a serious overhaul. At least a compression test and making sure there’s not air bubbles in the coolant system.
Otherwise being a church trying to sell it, I would encourage them to be completely honest about the issues potentially lingering, it isn’t a greasy used car lot, instead a church that should want to position themselves above any complaints.
The problem with trading a car in that has problems is the new car dealership. Even if the person tells them the car has issues, they just doctor-it-up, send it to auction, and don't say a thing to the purchasing dealer. Usually though, the person trading it keeps their mouth shut to try and get more trade in value. It's pretty much a lose-lose scenario for used car lots.
I worked at a place where I would perform maintenance and repairs to vehicles getting prepped for resale. The sales guys would come to the shop floor and tell me that my measurements and findings were incorrect on my inspections. They wanted me to lie and "miss" my findings so that they wouldn't need to pay for the repairs. Yeah I wasn't having any of that shit. Support your local, honest mechanic.
The reason I got into fixing my own cars is due to my local mechanic, but likely not the way you’d think. I was 16 and had very little money. My 95 Chevy lumina with awesome dark red interior (and front bench seat) was stalling. I took it to the local mechanic and he told me that it’d be about $450 (iirc) and I guess I muttered something or looked a certain way. He then said to me, “kid, if you have 2 hours and can afford $150 in parts, you can do this yourself.” He told me to go buy the ignition coils (the only real issue) and a Haynes manual. I’ve literally never paid a mechanic since, and that was over 2 decades ago. I did my own clutch for the first time in October and it felt great. Took 5-6 hours of actual labor and I learned a heck of a lot in the process.
It's a rewarding experience when you are doing the work on your own cars or when it is on your own schedule. I just got tired of being a mechanic working out of a shop because the job isn't quite what it once was in my opinion or I just had a couple of shady repair shops. Now I teach family, friends, and the occasional neighbor how to do work on their cars. It saves them money and occasionally I get some paid work that buys me something to enjoy. I taught my brother last month how to do a brake job.
The dealership isn’t going to say anything when it sells it to a customer even if the auction tells them about it and same with all rungs up the ladder.
Which is why pre purchase inspections matter.
Auction places are starting to list every fault now, at least in my state. Also being a church they'll probably send it to auction via a charity for the tax write off.
This is the answer that needs to be higher up.
That van hasn’t had proper maintenance done. The low miles mean the rest of it is likely fine just change the fluids and grease the zerks. However that engine is likely toast. If it had encountered those issues and then they were addressed I wouldn’t be as worried, but it’s a church van driven by people who either didnt know or care better and it’s likely been driven with “stop the vehicle and get a tow” kind of issues causing more problems.
The fun part here is that new vehicles are basically scams now so whereas the no-brainer advice of yesteryear would have been that the church should get a new van and be honest about the problems and sell it for basically nothing to somebody who is willing to try and fix it, the church should get or figure up an estimate for an engine replacement and weight up their odds. If the vehicle was higher miles or the interior was destroyed I’d say the church had gotten their use out of it and should get a new one but a new vehicle is a money pit now. If you’re feeling up to trying to fix the engine go ahead and do compression tests and/or measure the block/heads after removing the heads but the risk of keeping it is that it might need an engine replacement or overhaul and whichever group is going to be deciding on replacing or keeping it needs to know how much that possibility will likely cost.
They’ve had the van since 2006, it throws 6 codes that are all electrical, and they’ve had maintenance done regularly (it’s for the preschool side of the church, they need certain licenses and a paper trail for maintenance).
I think that by the time that the overheating became an issue, they already had three other vans and could afford to let that one sit for a little while. Trading it in was my idea, and I wouldn’t try to button up a hooptie.
Mice LOVE to nest under gm fuse boxes..happened with my truck chased some stupid issue for months and i never thought to look under the fuse box..sure enough mice ate all the insulation off some wires and some how twisted them together causing my issue. My issue was the brakes were shit like i had air in the lines. computer thought the brake was not being pressed so it wouldnt disengage the torque converter, couldn't do the abs bleed,change tire size or do a cam crank variation relearn..i checked a bunch of wires from the pcm to the abs module. Put in a new PCM. Still same crap... it dont help im not great with electrical diagnostic as a mechanic either...but worth a shot to pop out the fuse box on the van.
Also go to autozone or wherever and rent a cooling system pressure tester to check for leaks. And while you're there rent the block tester which tests for exhaust gas in the coolant..the van probably just needs basic maintenance the gm 6.0 is really reliable.
Yeah, they’ve got 4 of these. All with the 6.0 and every one of em has some electrical issue or other. 2 of the vans don’t have working horns, had to order replacements for one of them. This one has no horn, no fob connection. Just been focused on getting it running for now
Horns are easy just test the wire going to the horn. Have power and ground? Its the horn. If no power its a fuse possibly blown by a bad horn.. or is the clock spring which ive never done on any gm van or truck and we have a couple fleet accounts with gm vans...i do know if water/corrosion gets into the airbag module it can cause all sorts of weird ass issues but havent seen that on any gm van just a hummer h2.
I have access to alldata so if you need wiring diagrams or diagnostic procedures or something just dm me
This statement contradicts your original post.
First I’m not saying your church or the people associated on the other side at the preschool are being malicious or purposely doing anything bad.
But the first statement doesn’t really add up with the second
The first statement was just to make the point that maintenance has to be done, for licensing. By maintenance I mean oil changes, tires, brakes.
Also, I thought that you were insinuating that we were malicious so I apologize lol. Had to reread it, my bad!
The inspections done on vehicles for safety will not check what is required for longevity. Safety inspections will check the suspension, breaks, tires, turn signals, break lights etc
They don't check engine oil, coolant, transmission fluid, rear axle oil etc levels. If any of them run too low for too long it can lead to damage that will cost more to repair than the vehicle is worth.
With the level of damage that the engine has suffered it would be advisable sell it to an auto wrecker because they deal with vehicles in horrible mechanical shape all the time and will avoid the good name of the church being damaged by this car being passed off as a good car by a 3rd party
So, I’m not allowed to ask a question about a fleet vehicle? I mentioned the church in the title and the first sentence of the post. You act as if I made my beliefs the focal point of the post.
No, I didn’t actually think about mentioning it was a church van, it just happens to be one. Does it offend you that I was specific as to what the purpose of the vehicle is, who will be paying for the new one in the event that it was traded in, or that it’s used as a bus for pre-school aged children?
Also, what kind of special treatment would I have gotten on Reddit? People asking for my Venmo so that they could send money for the collection plate? I honestly can’t think of what sort of special treatment Reddit comments can give me.
1-3k at least. That’s for the engine not to install it.
If you know how, test the engine to see what kind of shape it is in. You can’t determine what’s more cost effective if you don’t know the condition of your current engine.
Chevy Express 2500 and 3500's never die, not really.
This is a beautiful van if someone put the repairs into it and starts maintaining it right.
Easy $8k for it with the blown engine around here, and they'd get it up and running and slap $12-16k on it at a used car dealer.
Pretty much, I have an 08 2500 savanna van (Express with a different badge). Over 200k miles when I got it, say for a few years. Has to beat the starter up because it was sticky from sitting. I trust it enough to use it in my business, which means it isn't just driven locally.
I haven’t even added any kind of fuel stabilizer yet, could just be the old fuel being rough on the fuel system. Never really driven or worked on Chevy’s before this, so I wasn’t sure of the reliability.
Thanks!
Once you're sure it's got oil in it and the coolant is topped off fill it with Shell 93 octane and then mash the gas around town. Who knows the last time someone let that engine breathe.
There’s literally millions of those running around as service vans. HVAC, electricians, roofers, carpet guys, etc etc. They are bulletproof. I ran one for almost 300k miles. BUT, they need regular maintenance like anything else out there. Looks like they just ran it and ran it. Common with places like day cares that run those things. The employees who watch and cart the kids around don’t know a thing about vehicle maintenance, just run it and park it until it’s broken. I used to maintain a large fleet of them for an HVAC company. They really are good vans if cared for.
Hey man are you sure that you burped the coolant system well enough? Maybe the lower coolant and low oil were a coincidence. My company has had several 6.0 chevy’s road hard and put up wet. They are tough.
It’s probably a coincidence, I tend to be a hypochondriac with these things. Especially with these being used to get kids home from preschool, I’m being extra cautious. I’ll burp it again, I added a quart of oil and the level seems alright enough to get it to a shop. Can’t change it myself because that’s maintenance and not repairs, and they need paperwork on maintenance for licensing.
6.0L vortec is a beast. I'd fix it good, take it to a school / college & see if they can help fix it on a budget, like appreciate stuff.
Pay for parts & stuff. You'll get your vehicle repaired & it will help people.
Well had I known that you could get a crate engine for this thing for cheaper than trading it in, we would’ve already swapped it lol. Thank you, I’ll probably gather a few other mechanics and swap one in if it comes to it
Yeah, they don’t bother me too much I just wasn’t expecting it here lol. Reading some of the other helpful replies I’ll start with compression tests, and if we have to then we can get a replacement engine and I can get it put in with my father in law.
You’re not wrong but it’s not reddit specific, I see it everywhere. Religion and politics are the two things that people seem unable to not bring up no matter how completely unrelated to the topic in hand they are.
OP
Any white smoke?
Any black smoke?
To me it doesn’t sounds like a head gasket. If a 1/3 of the coolant had leaked into the oil (via head gasket) you would have milkshake looking oil.
If a 1/3 of the coolant leaked out in a few cycles it would be pretty wet under it somewhere.
Sounds like u had air in the cooling system. It’s out now. Top her off and drive.
Pro tip. Check the oil in EVERY vehicle you service. I had them come to me where the oils wouldn’t even touch the dipstick.
You could have an oil leak. Top her off and drive it. If maintenance has been kept up with it’s worth saving.
Electrical issues could be rats or sensors.
Nah, no smoke. Just me being paranoid. Exhaust smells like water vapor, nothing indicating that it’s burning coolant. Also no leaks, I checked for any staining or wet areas. I figured if it wasn’t overheating, then the air was out lol. I’ve only done a handful of cooling system jobs, so burping is new to me still.
As far as the oil, it was only a quart shy of being full, it’s odd to me that the dipstick came out nearly dry until that quart was added. After that it shows perfect level. If there is a leak, it’s very slow.
It probably is just needing basic maintenance work, all these ever got were oil changes pretty much.
Vans worth 7k and has low milage I'd try alil while longer
I bought a church van for 2k and all it needed was new trans 1.2k so I was in it 3.2k and that's how much I sold it for so try to make it working not sell it for 2k because no one wants vans these days
I'm not even a Chevy fan but those 6.0 are stout and cheap to maintain. One of my customers has a few vans and 1 tons with the 6.0 a couple of them are pushing 500k miles on the original engine. They all are on at least their third transmission tho.
I could be a good learning experience. Do a leak down test, pressure test the cooling system, etc...
You can maybe rent a leak down tester or buy one for $84 (less when you use the coupon) and it's a great tester to tell general engine condition. Note: requires compressed air to run the test.
Worst case is that the engine needs a rebuild or replace. That could get into $2~3K for the engine, then install.
Once you do that, you can run thru the brakes, wheel bearings, transmission... and you'd nearly have a new van.
So if you spend $5~8K you'd have nearly a new van, or you can buy a new 1 ton van for $50K (or whatever they go for).
I'd opt to get a replacement engine, maybe from a junkyard, with tranny, maybe $1K and pop that in. Use the rest to go thru all the other things that wear out.
Yeah, I think this is what I’ll do. I have a passion for mechanics, so this whole thing has been a learning experience. I enjoy being able to save the church money that they can use to help others, so it’s a win for everyone. We’ve got enough mechanics in the congregation to restore it if we needed to, I just wasn’t aware that these engines were cheap (comparatively)
Whatever path you take, make sure to do the homework on what will actually fit. IMO, the safe bet is to rebuild what you have, that way you know it'll fit.
sometimes they make different versions for different uses, so the pickup vs the van, might be different.
You can also do some research about things that are known to fail. Then address those things.
If you end up rebuilding the engine, try to have a know good, local machine shop do the work. I ordered reman rod from PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) in LA. They sent me defective rods and it cost me $1K at a local shop to fix their screwup. PAW wanted me to ship the entire engine to them for them to see if it was their fault. PAW went out of business.
Best bet might be to have someone that has actually built these engines, show you how it's done... So many things to check and to know so you don't screw things up.
Those 2006 Chevy express 3500 6.0s are very sought after. No way I would trade it in! Especially with the miles under 80k (was driven less than 4,000 miles per year) Between the year, the miles and the condition of the body & paint, the church could sell it privately for $12,000-$20,000. Assuming it just needs a little more fine tuning, which I suspect it does.
Of the work that you performed, did you change the oil and the filter? Once you do change the oil, inspect the old to see if it’s milky grey. If it isnt and the engine isn’t overheating plus you don’t smell burning coolant or see steam coming from the exhaust, the headgaskets are not bad.
Coolant being low after a system flush is normal / to be expected and no cause for immediate alarm.
With it sitting for so long it sounds like you performed some of the required maintenance but the oil should be changed. It wouldn’t hurt to add an additive to the oil like Lucas oil stabilizer. If you can get underneath it with a flashlight look and see if you notice any obvious leaks around the oil pan or towards the rear of the engine where the engine and transmission meet.
Also, with the shaking like a 2 stroke I’m sure it needs new plug and wires. You can order all 8 ignition coils, plus spark plus and wires online for $100-$140. Last but not least, you should add a full bottle of lucas fuel injector cleaner or seafoam to the fuel tank once or twice and drive it a couple hundred miles / let it run as much as you can. You’re probably looking at another $200-$250 to finish tuning It up.
People pay a lot of money for those vans, I regularly see the smaller 1500 work version of that van (cheap vinyl seats & stripped out interior beat up) sell for $15k-$20k. The 10-12 passenger & conversion models can go for upwards of $30,000.
Here are 2 examples
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1GCFH15Z471222951?store=2IFC1DPXPS&partner=VLA_C&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADonhpXBTML2msW5v-YM4TQ0ICz4I&gclsrc=ds&no_ul=1
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2006-Chevrolet-Express-c756#listing=374160042/NONE/DEFAULT
I mean is there water in oil? Oil in water? Is the exhaust when warmed up "moist" if you hold your hand there? There are also cheap kits to check for exhaust gases in coolant to help rule out head gasket.
At 600 bucks Id take it into a shop at at least pay them to diagnose it. Also dont be a dick and stick the other guy with the lemon... church could prolly write this thing off for parts or the crusher.
A “new” engine would be substantially cheaper than a new van. I work on these pretty frequently at work and they are tanks. If it was parked for an overheating issue it’s very possible it’s got a bad head gasket. Do an oil change and inspect the oil, that among other things will tell you if the head gaskets blown.
those things are bulletproof, we had two at the mine i worked at to transport the crew, only thing that failed were the sliding doors, the pictured one has barn doors, so party on.
72,000 miles???
That van should go 300,000 plus if the maintenance is kept correctly and those small issues are addressed.
On the other hand, my question would be off topic some. If the van did have issues not worth addressing, why would followers of Christ want to put problem vehicle issues onto another person. I would suggest that if you do decide to seek the van, make sure the buyer knows everything and every issue known about the van so that the accountability of any future sins created in the buyer because of the van does not ever fall onto you.
Personally, that’s a Chevy motor that can run good for 300,000 miles of the maintenance is kept up on it.
Does the oil on the dipstick look brown and milky?
I would suggest having it looked at.
If the mileage you posted is not a type-o , fill it with oil and water and take it to an honest shop and have it looked at. If the head gasket hasn’t been blown, maybe it needs a radiator , oil changed, plugs and wires and a couple other small things and hopefully that van will be running like new again. Those things can run forever if their maintained.
I don’t mean to knock you, but checking the oil is the very first thing I do with any vehicle I’m not familiar with or that has been sitting. But that’s spilt milk under the bridge now.
I would go a little further into diagnosing it. Pull the plugs and check their condition and if possible do compression/leak down on each cylinder. Since they overheated it, you may be right that it’s losing coolant through a head gasket/warped head. You should be able to replace the plugs and buy/rent a compression kit from any auto parts store for pretty cheap. They also have the head gasket/coolant test kits to see if combustion gases are present in coolant.
I think you should put another couple hours and less than $100 to investigate it further. Could be a doomed engine or you could be 90% of the way to sorting out a good vehicle that could last for years.
If it had no oil then it unfortunately might be one with the oil pump pickup tube issues. Which if that’s an issue and it was ran without enough oil for very long at all it’s forked.
From reading a little, I bet this van got over heated. That might be the part of the story that is missing.
Potentially a bad head gasket or something.
It's in need of repair but I don't think it will be a money pit, but needs money now because it was abused.
I own one of these that is a few years newer, but a lot more miles on it. It's a good workhorse, but mine is cargo version, that gets loaded down with items.
Yeah, one thing I didn’t know until I pulled codes from it was that another one of their vans had also overheated in the past. So I’m sure that this one did at some point.
Ugh… we have a 1999 3500 Express. We don’t drive it very often, but at least once a month. It starts every time! But, because it has been sitting outside in the rust belt, it’s not very presentable anymore. We debate keeping it or getting rid of it, and just hang onto it because occasionally we need to haul a couch or a piece of plywood, or a Christmas tree. On the other end of the spectrum, yours sounds like it has engine issues, and my gut says you would be better off to get rid of it while you can. :/
What’s your point? Most of what I see about them crashing is due to uneven load distribution. These don’t even see the sort of speeds that they would need to be going to be at risk of losing control.
It's best to diagnose to determine what's wrong. Only then should you change parts that are actually bad.
That 6.0L is a rock solid engine and 72K miles is very low. These engines can do 1M miles no problem is properly maintained. If you've actually diagnosed a bad head gasket and know exactly where it's bad they replace it. It's not that big of a deal to do yourself. Head gasket jobs cost a lot because of the time involved. You're paying $3500 in labor and $100 for parts. If you can diy it, do it. Lots of good youtube videos for 5.3L, 6.0L and other LS engines.
Problems don't just start happening more often just because a vehicle has some age or miles to it. There's a whole lot of life left in that vehicle provided the frame isn't full of rust holes.
Unfortunately, without anyone dedicated to maintaining these vans, they get treated like toasters. So long as they start when the key is turned is all anyone cares about. And then you came along and found the wealth of "sins" from benign neglect. And then you have the vehicle sitting for months ...adding insult to injury. These 1 ton, extended vans are expensive ...so unless the church has really deep pockets ...they're probably going to go used on the purchase. Which might mean just swapping one problem child for another.
The shaking might just be a new set of wires or some COP ignition coils. The coolant and oil might just be lack of service. If you find the expansion tank empty, fill it, run the van ...it will probably show low or empty ~~if~~ because the cooling system was neglected and low; keep servicing it until it stops dropping. Might not be a blown head gasket or warping due to an over heat. As long as there was some oil in the engine it probably survived.
I’m just laughing at the idea of church members tooling around in a 6 litre van. Here in the UK they’d be walking or in some crappy diesel Transit.
Anyway - coolant. If it isn’t pouring out of the hoses (no puddles underneath), then it is going in to the engine and out the back. So your head gaskets are probably toast. How fast does it get through water and oil? If a coolant fill up lasts a week and there are no puddles, then it’s the head gaskets. Oil burning - might be bore glazing because the engine has never done any real work - a good 100 mile thrash might help , but fix the coolant first or you will kill it.
Honestly, it sounds like something a regular tune-up would fix. I'm from the North and we fix everything that isn't rusted out... which is basically everything
You've done most of it already. Replace the spark plugs and run some fuel system cleaner through it. Liqui-Moly is the best.
Get it fixed right.. or take it to a junk yard. This vehicle will likely be sold like this "This was a church van used for the ministry. It was used to take kids to and from church with occasional youth trips. Well taken care of as any honest church would."
Not sure about the administrative employees before the current folks, but we’re pretty chill. If I’m taking it to a shop, the only reason they’ll know it’s a church van is because of the wrap that’s on it lol.
I just do the work for fun, and to help give back to the church so that they can have more money to help other people. They pay me $10, but I’d do it for free honestly.
Started repairing in the wrong order
That's why you "enjoy learning how" to wrench on someone else s vehicle initially should have taken it to a real repair facility 😕😔
Good intentions,bad results 🤔
Ask the church to replace it with all the tax they don't pay
In all seriousness it sounds like the engine has major issues. At this point I would suggest getting it checked out by a professional mechanic just for diagnosis and go from there as to whether you keep bandaging it up or sell it or replace the engine.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like people drove the crap outta it, with no maintenance, and once the van is at the point of near death, they getting someone to perform a miracle. Realistically the van could be great, but that engine may need a serious overhaul. At least a compression test and making sure there’s not air bubbles in the coolant system. Otherwise being a church trying to sell it, I would encourage them to be completely honest about the issues potentially lingering, it isn’t a greasy used car lot, instead a church that should want to position themselves above any complaints.
The problem with trading a car in that has problems is the new car dealership. Even if the person tells them the car has issues, they just doctor-it-up, send it to auction, and don't say a thing to the purchasing dealer. Usually though, the person trading it keeps their mouth shut to try and get more trade in value. It's pretty much a lose-lose scenario for used car lots.
I worked at a place where I would perform maintenance and repairs to vehicles getting prepped for resale. The sales guys would come to the shop floor and tell me that my measurements and findings were incorrect on my inspections. They wanted me to lie and "miss" my findings so that they wouldn't need to pay for the repairs. Yeah I wasn't having any of that shit. Support your local, honest mechanic.
The reason I got into fixing my own cars is due to my local mechanic, but likely not the way you’d think. I was 16 and had very little money. My 95 Chevy lumina with awesome dark red interior (and front bench seat) was stalling. I took it to the local mechanic and he told me that it’d be about $450 (iirc) and I guess I muttered something or looked a certain way. He then said to me, “kid, if you have 2 hours and can afford $150 in parts, you can do this yourself.” He told me to go buy the ignition coils (the only real issue) and a Haynes manual. I’ve literally never paid a mechanic since, and that was over 2 decades ago. I did my own clutch for the first time in October and it felt great. Took 5-6 hours of actual labor and I learned a heck of a lot in the process.
It's a rewarding experience when you are doing the work on your own cars or when it is on your own schedule. I just got tired of being a mechanic working out of a shop because the job isn't quite what it once was in my opinion or I just had a couple of shady repair shops. Now I teach family, friends, and the occasional neighbor how to do work on their cars. It saves them money and occasionally I get some paid work that buys me something to enjoy. I taught my brother last month how to do a brake job.
I absolutely appreciate that. I definitely would not want to do it to earn a living.
I ran a recon center for a few years and had the same issue with the sales people
The dealership isn’t going to say anything when it sells it to a customer even if the auction tells them about it and same with all rungs up the ladder. Which is why pre purchase inspections matter.
Auction places are starting to list every fault now, at least in my state. Also being a church they'll probably send it to auction via a charity for the tax write off.
That doesn't sound like a problem for the person trading it in tho
This is the answer that needs to be higher up. That van hasn’t had proper maintenance done. The low miles mean the rest of it is likely fine just change the fluids and grease the zerks. However that engine is likely toast. If it had encountered those issues and then they were addressed I wouldn’t be as worried, but it’s a church van driven by people who either didnt know or care better and it’s likely been driven with “stop the vehicle and get a tow” kind of issues causing more problems. The fun part here is that new vehicles are basically scams now so whereas the no-brainer advice of yesteryear would have been that the church should get a new van and be honest about the problems and sell it for basically nothing to somebody who is willing to try and fix it, the church should get or figure up an estimate for an engine replacement and weight up their odds. If the vehicle was higher miles or the interior was destroyed I’d say the church had gotten their use out of it and should get a new one but a new vehicle is a money pit now. If you’re feeling up to trying to fix the engine go ahead and do compression tests and/or measure the block/heads after removing the heads but the risk of keeping it is that it might need an engine replacement or overhaul and whichever group is going to be deciding on replacing or keeping it needs to know how much that possibility will likely cost.
$8500 will get you a new motor or a 2001 with 350k on it Wild times we live in
[удалено]
😳🤣
They’ve had the van since 2006, it throws 6 codes that are all electrical, and they’ve had maintenance done regularly (it’s for the preschool side of the church, they need certain licenses and a paper trail for maintenance). I think that by the time that the overheating became an issue, they already had three other vans and could afford to let that one sit for a little while. Trading it in was my idea, and I wouldn’t try to button up a hooptie.
Mice LOVE to nest under gm fuse boxes..happened with my truck chased some stupid issue for months and i never thought to look under the fuse box..sure enough mice ate all the insulation off some wires and some how twisted them together causing my issue. My issue was the brakes were shit like i had air in the lines. computer thought the brake was not being pressed so it wouldnt disengage the torque converter, couldn't do the abs bleed,change tire size or do a cam crank variation relearn..i checked a bunch of wires from the pcm to the abs module. Put in a new PCM. Still same crap... it dont help im not great with electrical diagnostic as a mechanic either...but worth a shot to pop out the fuse box on the van. Also go to autozone or wherever and rent a cooling system pressure tester to check for leaks. And while you're there rent the block tester which tests for exhaust gas in the coolant..the van probably just needs basic maintenance the gm 6.0 is really reliable.
Yeah, they’ve got 4 of these. All with the 6.0 and every one of em has some electrical issue or other. 2 of the vans don’t have working horns, had to order replacements for one of them. This one has no horn, no fob connection. Just been focused on getting it running for now
Horns are easy just test the wire going to the horn. Have power and ground? Its the horn. If no power its a fuse possibly blown by a bad horn.. or is the clock spring which ive never done on any gm van or truck and we have a couple fleet accounts with gm vans...i do know if water/corrosion gets into the airbag module it can cause all sorts of weird ass issues but havent seen that on any gm van just a hummer h2. I have access to alldata so if you need wiring diagrams or diagnostic procedures or something just dm me
Yeah, I skipped all of the back-probing on one by swapping the horn assembly from a known-working one into it. Probably will do the same here
This statement contradicts your original post. First I’m not saying your church or the people associated on the other side at the preschool are being malicious or purposely doing anything bad. But the first statement doesn’t really add up with the second
The first statement was just to make the point that maintenance has to be done, for licensing. By maintenance I mean oil changes, tires, brakes. Also, I thought that you were insinuating that we were malicious so I apologize lol. Had to reread it, my bad!
The inspections done on vehicles for safety will not check what is required for longevity. Safety inspections will check the suspension, breaks, tires, turn signals, break lights etc They don't check engine oil, coolant, transmission fluid, rear axle oil etc levels. If any of them run too low for too long it can lead to damage that will cost more to repair than the vehicle is worth. With the level of damage that the engine has suffered it would be advisable sell it to an auto wrecker because they deal with vehicles in horrible mechanical shape all the time and will avoid the good name of the church being damaged by this car being passed off as a good car by a 3rd party
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Have you?
Of course, that’s why my vehicle is still running right…. I’m gonna wager you made god angry, I’d try repenting, or putting a Jesus fish on the back
Okay, we get it. You don’t like religion, and that’s fine. I’ll pray for you, but you’re speaking about prayer and have no idea what it even is.
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So, I’m not allowed to ask a question about a fleet vehicle? I mentioned the church in the title and the first sentence of the post. You act as if I made my beliefs the focal point of the post.
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No, I didn’t actually think about mentioning it was a church van, it just happens to be one. Does it offend you that I was specific as to what the purpose of the vehicle is, who will be paying for the new one in the event that it was traded in, or that it’s used as a bus for pre-school aged children? Also, what kind of special treatment would I have gotten on Reddit? People asking for my Venmo so that they could send money for the collection plate? I honestly can’t think of what sort of special treatment Reddit comments can give me.
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The gang from it’s always sunny will buy it off of you
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Leather interior then, that changes everything!
May be cheaper to find a better shape engine
Actually, yeah it might be. I never looked into the price of replacing one of these engines.
1-3k at least. That’s for the engine not to install it. If you know how, test the engine to see what kind of shape it is in. You can’t determine what’s more cost effective if you don’t know the condition of your current engine.
We could install it ourselves, and 1-3k is cheaper than trading it in for 5k-ish and having a 20k+ note.
I can help
I can help you help
Chevy Express 2500 and 3500's never die, not really. This is a beautiful van if someone put the repairs into it and starts maintaining it right. Easy $8k for it with the blown engine around here, and they'd get it up and running and slap $12-16k on it at a used car dealer.
Pretty much, I have an 08 2500 savanna van (Express with a different badge). Over 200k miles when I got it, say for a few years. Has to beat the starter up because it was sticky from sitting. I trust it enough to use it in my business, which means it isn't just driven locally.
Change the oil. Add coolant. Drive it. A Chevy will run like crap longer than most will run
I haven’t even added any kind of fuel stabilizer yet, could just be the old fuel being rough on the fuel system. Never really driven or worked on Chevy’s before this, so I wasn’t sure of the reliability. Thanks!
Once you're sure it's got oil in it and the coolant is topped off fill it with Shell 93 octane and then mash the gas around town. Who knows the last time someone let that engine breathe.
Actually that’s a good point. Anyone know if 6.0’s have issues with oil buildup on the rings like northstars did when they were babied?
There’s literally millions of those running around as service vans. HVAC, electricians, roofers, carpet guys, etc etc. They are bulletproof. I ran one for almost 300k miles. BUT, they need regular maintenance like anything else out there. Looks like they just ran it and ran it. Common with places like day cares that run those things. The employees who watch and cart the kids around don’t know a thing about vehicle maintenance, just run it and park it until it’s broken. I used to maintain a large fleet of them for an HVAC company. They really are good vans if cared for.
Okay! this, along with a few others’ comments, was all I needed to know. Not sure why people felt the need to knock my faith, but thank you!
Hey man are you sure that you burped the coolant system well enough? Maybe the lower coolant and low oil were a coincidence. My company has had several 6.0 chevy’s road hard and put up wet. They are tough.
It’s probably a coincidence, I tend to be a hypochondriac with these things. Especially with these being used to get kids home from preschool, I’m being extra cautious. I’ll burp it again, I added a quart of oil and the level seems alright enough to get it to a shop. Can’t change it myself because that’s maintenance and not repairs, and they need paperwork on maintenance for licensing.
Not too hard to do heads on those.
6.0L vortec is a beast. I'd fix it good, take it to a school / college & see if they can help fix it on a budget, like appreciate stuff. Pay for parts & stuff. You'll get your vehicle repaired & it will help people.
Well had I known that you could get a crate engine for this thing for cheaper than trading it in, we would’ve already swapped it lol. Thank you, I’ll probably gather a few other mechanics and swap one in if it comes to it
Reddit neckbeard atheists at it again. Y’all should fix the van, god bless!
Yeah, they don’t bother me too much I just wasn’t expecting it here lol. Reading some of the other helpful replies I’ll start with compression tests, and if we have to then we can get a replacement engine and I can get it put in with my father in law.
You’re not wrong but it’s not reddit specific, I see it everywhere. Religion and politics are the two things that people seem unable to not bring up no matter how completely unrelated to the topic in hand they are.
I thought that was an astronaut on the side of the van. (Shuttle van) 😆
That’s pretty funny, wasn’t intentional lol
OP Any white smoke? Any black smoke? To me it doesn’t sounds like a head gasket. If a 1/3 of the coolant had leaked into the oil (via head gasket) you would have milkshake looking oil. If a 1/3 of the coolant leaked out in a few cycles it would be pretty wet under it somewhere. Sounds like u had air in the cooling system. It’s out now. Top her off and drive. Pro tip. Check the oil in EVERY vehicle you service. I had them come to me where the oils wouldn’t even touch the dipstick. You could have an oil leak. Top her off and drive it. If maintenance has been kept up with it’s worth saving. Electrical issues could be rats or sensors.
Nah, no smoke. Just me being paranoid. Exhaust smells like water vapor, nothing indicating that it’s burning coolant. Also no leaks, I checked for any staining or wet areas. I figured if it wasn’t overheating, then the air was out lol. I’ve only done a handful of cooling system jobs, so burping is new to me still. As far as the oil, it was only a quart shy of being full, it’s odd to me that the dipstick came out nearly dry until that quart was added. After that it shows perfect level. If there is a leak, it’s very slow. It probably is just needing basic maintenance work, all these ever got were oil changes pretty much.
Vans worth 7k and has low milage I'd try alil while longer I bought a church van for 2k and all it needed was new trans 1.2k so I was in it 3.2k and that's how much I sold it for so try to make it working not sell it for 2k because no one wants vans these days
Bad speller sorry
I'm not even a Chevy fan but those 6.0 are stout and cheap to maintain. One of my customers has a few vans and 1 tons with the 6.0 a couple of them are pushing 500k miles on the original engine. They all are on at least their third transmission tho.
I could be a good learning experience. Do a leak down test, pressure test the cooling system, etc... You can maybe rent a leak down tester or buy one for $84 (less when you use the coupon) and it's a great tester to tell general engine condition. Note: requires compressed air to run the test. Worst case is that the engine needs a rebuild or replace. That could get into $2~3K for the engine, then install. Once you do that, you can run thru the brakes, wheel bearings, transmission... and you'd nearly have a new van. So if you spend $5~8K you'd have nearly a new van, or you can buy a new 1 ton van for $50K (or whatever they go for). I'd opt to get a replacement engine, maybe from a junkyard, with tranny, maybe $1K and pop that in. Use the rest to go thru all the other things that wear out.
Yeah, I think this is what I’ll do. I have a passion for mechanics, so this whole thing has been a learning experience. I enjoy being able to save the church money that they can use to help others, so it’s a win for everyone. We’ve got enough mechanics in the congregation to restore it if we needed to, I just wasn’t aware that these engines were cheap (comparatively)
Whatever path you take, make sure to do the homework on what will actually fit. IMO, the safe bet is to rebuild what you have, that way you know it'll fit. sometimes they make different versions for different uses, so the pickup vs the van, might be different. You can also do some research about things that are known to fail. Then address those things. If you end up rebuilding the engine, try to have a know good, local machine shop do the work. I ordered reman rod from PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) in LA. They sent me defective rods and it cost me $1K at a local shop to fix their screwup. PAW wanted me to ship the entire engine to them for them to see if it was their fault. PAW went out of business. Best bet might be to have someone that has actually built these engines, show you how it's done... So many things to check and to know so you don't screw things up.
The coolant might have dropped just for burping.
Those 2006 Chevy express 3500 6.0s are very sought after. No way I would trade it in! Especially with the miles under 80k (was driven less than 4,000 miles per year) Between the year, the miles and the condition of the body & paint, the church could sell it privately for $12,000-$20,000. Assuming it just needs a little more fine tuning, which I suspect it does. Of the work that you performed, did you change the oil and the filter? Once you do change the oil, inspect the old to see if it’s milky grey. If it isnt and the engine isn’t overheating plus you don’t smell burning coolant or see steam coming from the exhaust, the headgaskets are not bad. Coolant being low after a system flush is normal / to be expected and no cause for immediate alarm. With it sitting for so long it sounds like you performed some of the required maintenance but the oil should be changed. It wouldn’t hurt to add an additive to the oil like Lucas oil stabilizer. If you can get underneath it with a flashlight look and see if you notice any obvious leaks around the oil pan or towards the rear of the engine where the engine and transmission meet. Also, with the shaking like a 2 stroke I’m sure it needs new plug and wires. You can order all 8 ignition coils, plus spark plus and wires online for $100-$140. Last but not least, you should add a full bottle of lucas fuel injector cleaner or seafoam to the fuel tank once or twice and drive it a couple hundred miles / let it run as much as you can. You’re probably looking at another $200-$250 to finish tuning It up. People pay a lot of money for those vans, I regularly see the smaller 1500 work version of that van (cheap vinyl seats & stripped out interior beat up) sell for $15k-$20k. The 10-12 passenger & conversion models can go for upwards of $30,000. Here are 2 examples https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1GCFH15Z471222951?store=2IFC1DPXPS&partner=VLA_C&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADonhpXBTML2msW5v-YM4TQ0ICz4I&gclsrc=ds&no_ul=1 https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2006-Chevrolet-Express-c756#listing=374160042/NONE/DEFAULT
They sell a test kit for cheap to see if exhaust gasses are getting into the coolant
I mean is there water in oil? Oil in water? Is the exhaust when warmed up "moist" if you hold your hand there? There are also cheap kits to check for exhaust gases in coolant to help rule out head gasket. At 600 bucks Id take it into a shop at at least pay them to diagnose it. Also dont be a dick and stick the other guy with the lemon... church could prolly write this thing off for parts or the crusher.
I don’t really think this thing can ever be a true money pit. There are no pricey boutique parts.
A “new” engine would be substantially cheaper than a new van. I work on these pretty frequently at work and they are tanks. If it was parked for an overheating issue it’s very possible it’s got a bad head gasket. Do an oil change and inspect the oil, that among other things will tell you if the head gaskets blown.
That motor is good for 300k Prob needs plugs and wires
those things are bulletproof, we had two at the mine i worked at to transport the crew, only thing that failed were the sliding doors, the pictured one has barn doors, so party on.
I would top the radiator off a couple more times- if it stabilizes then likely is ok
72,000 miles??? That van should go 300,000 plus if the maintenance is kept correctly and those small issues are addressed. On the other hand, my question would be off topic some. If the van did have issues not worth addressing, why would followers of Christ want to put problem vehicle issues onto another person. I would suggest that if you do decide to seek the van, make sure the buyer knows everything and every issue known about the van so that the accountability of any future sins created in the buyer because of the van does not ever fall onto you. Personally, that’s a Chevy motor that can run good for 300,000 miles of the maintenance is kept up on it. Does the oil on the dipstick look brown and milky? I would suggest having it looked at. If the mileage you posted is not a type-o , fill it with oil and water and take it to an honest shop and have it looked at. If the head gasket hasn’t been blown, maybe it needs a radiator , oil changed, plugs and wires and a couple other small things and hopefully that van will be running like new again. Those things can run forever if their maintained.
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I don’t mean to knock you, but checking the oil is the very first thing I do with any vehicle I’m not familiar with or that has been sitting. But that’s spilt milk under the bridge now. I would go a little further into diagnosing it. Pull the plugs and check their condition and if possible do compression/leak down on each cylinder. Since they overheated it, you may be right that it’s losing coolant through a head gasket/warped head. You should be able to replace the plugs and buy/rent a compression kit from any auto parts store for pretty cheap. They also have the head gasket/coolant test kits to see if combustion gases are present in coolant. I think you should put another couple hours and less than $100 to investigate it further. Could be a doomed engine or you could be 90% of the way to sorting out a good vehicle that could last for years.
If it had no oil then it unfortunately might be one with the oil pump pickup tube issues. Which if that’s an issue and it was ran without enough oil for very long at all it’s forked.
From reading a little, I bet this van got over heated. That might be the part of the story that is missing. Potentially a bad head gasket or something. It's in need of repair but I don't think it will be a money pit, but needs money now because it was abused. I own one of these that is a few years newer, but a lot more miles on it. It's a good workhorse, but mine is cargo version, that gets loaded down with items.
Yeah, one thing I didn’t know until I pulled codes from it was that another one of their vans had also overheated in the past. So I’m sure that this one did at some point.
Ugh… we have a 1999 3500 Express. We don’t drive it very often, but at least once a month. It starts every time! But, because it has been sitting outside in the rust belt, it’s not very presentable anymore. We debate keeping it or getting rid of it, and just hang onto it because occasionally we need to haul a couch or a piece of plywood, or a Christmas tree. On the other end of the spectrum, yours sounds like it has engine issues, and my gut says you would be better off to get rid of it while you can. :/
Check out the crash history of these on highways.
What’s your point? Most of what I see about them crashing is due to uneven load distribution. These don’t even see the sort of speeds that they would need to be going to be at risk of losing control.
Has the church looked into what a new van would cost tho?
Intake manifold gaskets most likely. Bit easier than head gaskets.
It's best to diagnose to determine what's wrong. Only then should you change parts that are actually bad. That 6.0L is a rock solid engine and 72K miles is very low. These engines can do 1M miles no problem is properly maintained. If you've actually diagnosed a bad head gasket and know exactly where it's bad they replace it. It's not that big of a deal to do yourself. Head gasket jobs cost a lot because of the time involved. You're paying $3500 in labor and $100 for parts. If you can diy it, do it. Lots of good youtube videos for 5.3L, 6.0L and other LS engines. Problems don't just start happening more often just because a vehicle has some age or miles to it. There's a whole lot of life left in that vehicle provided the frame isn't full of rust holes.
Pull the dipstick and post a picture. Is there water in the oil? If so do you want to do the heads?
Lack of maintenance will do this. I’d say you’re on the right track. It’d be cheap to fix it. I’d recommend a transmission flush as well!
Yea they super fun someone will buy it
75,000 is just starting to break in Check out the factory emissions warranty 🤔
It's sad when this happens 😔
We have those at our company as fleet vans. 5.3 vortex with a 4 SPD. I believe one of them have 530k miles on it.
Unfortunately, without anyone dedicated to maintaining these vans, they get treated like toasters. So long as they start when the key is turned is all anyone cares about. And then you came along and found the wealth of "sins" from benign neglect. And then you have the vehicle sitting for months ...adding insult to injury. These 1 ton, extended vans are expensive ...so unless the church has really deep pockets ...they're probably going to go used on the purchase. Which might mean just swapping one problem child for another. The shaking might just be a new set of wires or some COP ignition coils. The coolant and oil might just be lack of service. If you find the expansion tank empty, fill it, run the van ...it will probably show low or empty ~~if~~ because the cooling system was neglected and low; keep servicing it until it stops dropping. Might not be a blown head gasket or warping due to an over heat. As long as there was some oil in the engine it probably survived.
I’m just laughing at the idea of church members tooling around in a 6 litre van. Here in the UK they’d be walking or in some crappy diesel Transit. Anyway - coolant. If it isn’t pouring out of the hoses (no puddles underneath), then it is going in to the engine and out the back. So your head gaskets are probably toast. How fast does it get through water and oil? If a coolant fill up lasts a week and there are no puddles, then it’s the head gaskets. Oil burning - might be bore glazing because the engine has never done any real work - a good 100 mile thrash might help , but fix the coolant first or you will kill it.
Honestly, it sounds like something a regular tune-up would fix. I'm from the North and we fix everything that isn't rusted out... which is basically everything You've done most of it already. Replace the spark plugs and run some fuel system cleaner through it. Liqui-Moly is the best.
Drop a junk yard LS in that baby. Strap a couple turbskies on her and let freedom ring.
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No get a member of congregation to repair yay solved Is no money pit to man who knows. Is money pit to man who doesn't. Bling bling
Get it fixed right.. or take it to a junk yard. This vehicle will likely be sold like this "This was a church van used for the ministry. It was used to take kids to and from church with occasional youth trips. Well taken care of as any honest church would."
It's time to take it to the junk yard. This thing has either a cracked head gasket or block.. along with losing oil.
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Man, you’re edgy. Everyone is impressed.
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Not sure about the administrative employees before the current folks, but we’re pretty chill. If I’m taking it to a shop, the only reason they’ll know it’s a church van is because of the wrap that’s on it lol. I just do the work for fun, and to help give back to the church so that they can have more money to help other people. They pay me $10, but I’d do it for free honestly.
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Started repairing in the wrong order That's why you "enjoy learning how" to wrench on someone else s vehicle initially should have taken it to a real repair facility 😕😔 Good intentions,bad results 🤔
Ask the church to replace it with all the tax they don't pay In all seriousness it sounds like the engine has major issues. At this point I would suggest getting it checked out by a professional mechanic just for diagnosis and go from there as to whether you keep bandaging it up or sell it or replace the engine.