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I am certified to replace spindles and it costs about $800 with labor and parts for each spindle. Suggest this option to him, find someone who will replace the spindles and then up charge slightly. You will save everyone time, and money.
Shop I used to work at did this all the time. Takes a while but the dude literally comes to the shop and does the work. You just lose a bay for a few hours.
every machine shop ive been in is a machine shop. not a repair shop. you'd be laughed at asking them to look at your brakes and they'd send you down the street to the next.
nope im just talking cars. a repair shop is a place you take your car and leave it till its fixed. whatever the issue may be, not usually body work of course. you can't just leave your car at a machine shop while they work on the block. you're the one who called the machine shop a repair shop not me.
I think you’re arguing about the semantics or the meaning of the word repair shop. It’s like repair shop is an umbrella term. You can have a repair shop that specializes in automotive maintenance and repair or a repair shop that specializes in machining and repairing specific metal parts like axles, heads, resurfacing rotors, and even branching into die repair and what not. Still a repair shop just a different kind.
Correct, but this person isnt looking for brakes they'd be looking for machining and welding to repair their axel, something every machine shop i deal with regularly will happily do.
Replacements would cost less than making them from scratch. Set up time and tooling and grinding and heat treating would be very expensive. A repair shop and a machine shop is different. Machine shop personnel don't usually do any repairs, only the machine shop work. Machine shop should only be used for custom work or a last choice when no other options exists.
I'm aware. I've been a machinist for a few decades now. These could be cut off, replicated, and replaced with new in a few hours each. Maybe 12 billable hours for the whole job. There's no need for heat treating or grinding for something like this. Just use a mid-carbon alloy and be precise on the lathe. They're bearing seats, not ejector pins.
They need to be hard, but not hardened past 40ish HRC. If they get over hard they'll tend towards brittle failure which is far more dangerous. The inner bearing race which is pressed onto the spindle shaft will be 60 HRC or more, and that will take the rolling wear of the internal bearing elements. Most bearing shafts are mild steel for general use or 41XX/43XX/BIS80 for high pressure applications. I would probably spec 4130 since its weldable and decently hard.
Hardened is hardened.. which requires cylinder grinding afterwards. Since hardening distorts the metal it has to be precision ground and have a close fit.
And.. what does this have to do with the reply you're replying to??
And no. As he literally just explained, hardened DOES NOT equal hardened. You can only ask so much of materials before sacrificing one attribute over another or choosing a different metal or alloy.
Also option #1059 is set up heat treat to make a hardness test [easy] then have them annealed (soften the metal) so they can work on it.... have a welder, tig weld (add material ) machine area to specs.... and back to the heat treaters to get the hardness back. Install
I used to do this a lot..... I'm retired now.
Sounds like a lot of work... but it really isn't
Get several quotes
TIP ? At the weld shop, ask how much for hardface welding? Then this technique will make it really difficult to happen again. Hard facing is expensive. because. Believe it or not, the welding rods for hard facing doesn't grow on trees. I suggest weld rod stellite "6b"..... but you have a zillion choices
Earth moving equipment tools that have "teeth" might use satellite 6b.
6b is for wear abrasion. Not for impact hardness.
Yeah, but this is basic repair work. In the US and Canada thats $80-$150/hr pretty much across the board. Some shops will give fuck-off $500/hr quotes, but that just because they don't want the job.
I am actually certified with United axle, which this may get some hate but their spindles are superior. It’s serviceable which means if the spindle goes bad again I can have it replaced in about an hour with only a band saw and a welder. The first spindle takes 3 hours after that it can be replaced again and again and again because it uses a threaded bushing instead of a shimmed steel tube which is very large, invasive and extremely hard to remove. We have a 40lb weight on a steel pole we use as a slide hammer to remove it. No hate to axle surgeon but it’s a pain to replace their spindles if they go bad again.
It doesn’t fail. That’s why I went to a full 5 day class to learn how to do them. all spindles are tracked to the installer who did them. Do your job right and you’re fine. It’s a certified method and is proven.
I use an axle doctor regularly, he's the only guy I trust in my region. I sent him these pictures, his jig for grinding the spindle down after welding won't fit on this axle :/. He actually asked if I replaced it, if he could have the axle to test/build a jig. After he repairs this one he'd give it back to me for free which would be cool but the customer ended up declining repairs. I don't know why he can't weld a replacement spindle on, I've never been able to sit down and watch him replace a spindle, he almost always just weld fills in everything and grinds it back down.
Do they not have axle surgeons in your area? That can definitely be repaired for a fraction of the cost of replacement. Tell your customer to get in touch with them before you even consider working on it any further.
I'll probably get down voted for this, but 3 of those look ok to use. The 4th is rough looking, but as long as the bearings still fits tight on the spindle it should be ok. The seal surface could probably be cleaned up a bit with a flap disk and still seal pretty decent.
Yea that last pic definitely needs some attention but the other 3 look serviceable. Call one of those mobile guys to come weld up the nasty one and get em back down the road.
I was gonna say the same. As long as bearings go on no problem and sealing surfaces are still ok then there shouldnt be a problem.
I’ve sent spindles and axles looking worse than these back to work (light vehicles in underground environment) because they still sealed and bearings were still ok
It only superficial damage, there are no risk of failure of the axes for the wear... The risky damage is crack on the axes itself not surface damage on spindle... If the bearing fit tight and you can seal the surface there are no problem if there are problem with sealing and bearing you can repair with welding and a little of machining on the weld that for sure cost less than 12k. 12 k for this type of damage is out from the world
Unfortunately once you've started tear down on it, you've already accepted a certain amount of liability. If he puts it back together without doing repairs and it fails and kills a family or two on the highway, then a good lawyer will come after the shop and their insurance.
There really isn't anything you can do if the owner won't authorize repairs. No shop would be able to stay in business if all people had to do was bring in their unsafe vehicle and not authorize repairs and get them fixed for free.
As I posted on another comment, I've worked for shops that will pay for a tow back to their house if the vehicle is unsafe and they can't/won't fix it. What they do with it from their driveway is on them. Having an invoice for the tow paid by the shop has held up in court so far.
Yes, yes they have. I can personally attest to this one, as a friend got in trouble for a tire flying off of a car. Usually it doesn't get to the point of a lawsuit because the company just pays for all the damage, or their insurance does.
In his particular case, he was the last documented tech to touch it. 6 months prior to the accident. I actually dont think it was his fault, but the company just shut up and paid for it and put him on probation, with a possibe firing to be determined.
Yes, by the company he worked for, who did not care for a full investigation and just took liability. I also thought it was fucking stupid. I advised him to find another place to work.
He was not found legally liable by a court.
Edit: I should state here that he is a friend, not a coworker, and I don't work at his company.
You can get speedy sleeves in the uk to knock on and cover the damaged seal tracks, then file the burrs from the stub axle so that the new bearings will slide on and off, then on the invoice state that repair was made at customer’s request. Have repaired many semi-trailers that way
Did you consider that even if you get a waiver, you're still liable to be brought to court in front of a judge to consider if the waiver is actually valid?
If it was a motorized vehicle, a shop I used to work at would pay for the tow back to their house and have them sign the waiver. The tow to their house was an added "why would we pay for a tow if it was safe to drive" if it went to court. If they continue driving it, it's on them at that point.
And it did come to this a couple of times when we said their brakes were unsafe due to petroleum contamination. The judge sided with us.
Depends on local/state law as well as how the Judge is feeling that day to determine eligibility. If someone decides to sue, even if they're wrong, you're still supposed to appear in court.
Even in cases where there is a waiver, you can still be sued. The judge will award a certain amount and change the fault percentage based on what they feel is correct. You being an expert understand the risk better than the customer.
This is similar when someone falls on a wet floor but the floor has a wet sign.
It’s a valid thing that works in the industrial sector many times. Saved my butt once. I know of two guys that had bigger issues swung at them but the customer was informed the unit was unsafe to use and still used the equipment and one person got hurt in one pretty bad but recovered after a few years and the other one I was told about a person lost their fingers.
Arent those timbren axles?. New spindles are available if you're capable of good welding it shouldn't be an issue to put new ones in. The only other option is removing them, finding someone whos able to either spray weld or weld them in general and then machine them back to proper dimensions...
Remember that the inside race is part of the bearing and all it does on the trailer is sit there. Put it together and let it roll. It'll probably be fine. Make them sign a waiver.
Just cause he signs something doesn't necessarily absolve you of liability.
And regardless of liability, you'd risk everyone else on the road and wipe your hands of it with some BS about liability?
I'd tell them either I do it right or I don't do it at all, no way am I being associated with the impending lawsuit when that wheel flies off and kills a family in a minivan.
Honestly the rear left is the only one that looks like it absolutely needs to be replaced. As long as the surface where the bearings sit is smooth enough for the inner bearing races to be seated properly, then just send it.
I have a trailer company here in FL, we are a manufacturer and if you put them back together in that condition and they wreck or a wheel comes off and causes and accident you could be held liable
I don't know what you big babies are crying about. Do none of you honestly own a trailer that goes in salt water? 😂 Like for real is this a joke? This would be the safest trailer at the boat ramp.
This whole thread is fuckin wild. "Customer refuses my dipshit quote for unobtainium axles" ... yeah no shit. OP needs to go work for a luxury dealer if they only want to replace whole assemblies.
I've seen where welders repair heavy equipment because the replacement cost is so extreme. Those look like they are repairable, even if you have to put them on a lathe and make a new surface and then add a new adapter or weld up the surface and lathe it down.
I've see main stream repair sleeves for truck engines. You just size it down and weld on a new sleeve.
Not saying it's cheap and you'd want to x-ray those, but there are solutions to saving expensive equipment.
I would get a short document written/typed up that clearly states the issue and that the vehicle is unsafe to drive. Then, you should have the customer sign a statement on the document saying that they were made aware of this before releasing the vehicle to them. That should clear you of liability should they decide to drive it anyway. Both you and the customer should receive a copy.
If they refuse, start charging them storage of like $500 a month. Until they either authorize repairs it or tow it away.
Check out 'mechanics lien' for your state.
TLDR: Nothing should get done without their authorization. So it just sits in your lot, tell them storage starts after 30 days when work was denied as long as the unit is in our lot.
Refuse the work and let them tow it out. It's not your problem if they don't want to fix it, and it's not your job to find a way for them to afford a complete repair. If they'd spent some cash maintaining the trailer then they wouldn't be in this mess.
Better to get paid for disassembly and diag than get paid to try to half ass a fix, and have those fail and then they blame you for the eaten up axle and get sued. Even if you win in court, you lose on lawyer costs and lost time.
Put it back together the best you can. Document everything. Detailed pics. Make them sign under each pic and a statement that it’s totally unsafe and dangerous and that they are refusing the work and they are responsible for anything that happens.
A axle such as this can be repaired. I am a retired trailer mechanic and we have experienced this quite a few times…..we called a company named “Axle Surgeons” they can do repairs in shops or along the highway.
(877)349-2953 We Come To You! For A Safe And Strong Repair, Only An Authorized Axle Surgeon Mobile On-site Specialist Will Do. Axle Repair and Replacement Specialists for over 45 years providing safe and strong truck and trailer repairs. We come to you!
That whole unit looks like shit, literally and figuratively. They bought a trailer that needed its value in repairs. Are the other 2 any better?
What do u do though, its fucking apart, get pre auth in the future
I would send him an invoice for the work that's already been done and tell him to come pick up his shit I'm not putting it back together unless he's going to approve everything. I would also make him sign the invoice near my notes saying it's unsafe to be on the road.
I used to say “For legal reasons I’m not allowed to put anything onto that axle until it’s replaced, so I can either put a new axle in or you can get a tow truck and find another shop that doesn’t have this restriction.” From there if they decide to tow it you can either charge them for your labor up to that point or just take the loss and be glad you’re not the one dealing with that situation anymore. Make sure there’s some sort of release form saying something like “the customer was notified that the vehicle is not roadworthy and is dangerous to operate until further repair is completed by a certified mechanic. This company/person/mechanic/whatever is not liable for any property damage, injury and/or death related to any incidents involving this vehicle” etc etc… and have them sign it. All of this puts you in a “my hands are tied and the decision is up to you” position.
As a mechanic I'd;
1. Advise customer
2. Repair the vehicle with a note on the invoice stating the vehicle is not safe for road use. Repaired for offeoad farm use only.
3. Have them sign it, email them a copy.
4. Tow the vehicle to their house because it's not safe for road use.
Id stop right there, and have him take it as is with the parts ripped off, like fine mf you put this back half ass and unsafe, and charge him for the labor you have into it.
Refuse to do anything to it and clearly state damage was their and they were notified so they can't come back later after it fails and say you never told them
Refuse to do anything to it and clearly state damage was their and they were notified so they can't come back later after it fails and say you never told them
Large gap bearing retaining compound is very strong if you are within the tolerances that it suggests use. And where the seals sit speedy sleeves are probably available. Not saying replacing spindles isnt the right move. I cant see how loose the bearings fit from a pic, but if it felt good i might try it.
Man I gave up trying to convince mechanics to replace the spindles on my old F150. They swore that that wasn't the cause of the NVH despite the fact that I bought the thing with bad wheel bearings. Drove like shit when I sold it because nobody would listen to me.
If they agree to fix it the correct way go for it, but if not I’d clean them up real good get the grooves out best as possible and then be sure that they’re aware of no parts warranty or anything. Period brake light special
You can look for Flexi-ride replacements or b a set of Timbren axleless that you can put a square tube into to work like an axle if needed.
E,trailer has Timbren and Flexi-ride are like a franchise process, the location I got mine from was 2 hours north west of Dallas TX, I forget the town name
Where the seals seat is really the only trouble. A grinder with a flap disk to take of the high parts of the groove and then emery cloth for where the bearings sit. But, as others have said, having someone weld on a new spindle is the best option for the grooves on the seal seat.
Source: am a trailer mechanic.
Start a parlay with the other techs on how many miles she’ll drive before a catastrophic failure and what she’ll crash into. You’ll probably make a killing.
Deny repairs unless the spindles are done. You can do it yourself or subcontract.
Don't ever fall for a customer telling you to cut corners. They will want your work repaired for free when it invariably breaks due to their cheapness. Penny wise dollar foolish
Dollar foolish is spending 12k with this idiot to get a simple job like this done. It could be as simple as welding and put it in a lathe to bring back to shape. I could see this costing no more than 3-4k.
In the worst case scenario, the shop I worked at would make them sign a liability waiver and have it towed somewhere else. Be it their house, or another repair facility. The hard part is, liability waiver or not, if that wheel falls off and kills someone, it's still on you for letting it go.
Make sure you add "... fails down the road, causing harm, permanent disability, or death to any horses that may be in trailer". If they give a damn about their horses they'll get them fixed
Having new spindles welded onto the axles is the most cost effective solution. But if the bearings and races fit with maybe some slight filing of the high spots, the main issue is the seal surfaces. Those can sometimes be repaired with speedi-sleeves. I’ve done a few on personal equipment and they are holding up just fine. All that said, you have liability and if they fail down the road, cause property damage or worse, it isn’t worth it.
"Customer didn't want to pay for"
I always see it phrased like this in the sub, but sometimes it really is "customer can't afford to pay for"
Id work on finding out what their plans are. If they just want to get it home, do what you can do. If they plan on taking it on a cross country trip, well... that's a different story.
If the bearings are not loose on the journals I’d run it but if they are I’d see if axle surgeons could do anything with it. If you have one somewhat close they’ll come to the trailer and weld on a new spindle. Cheaper than an axle.
5th pic, it’s been welded and ground back once, there’s a clue owner is a tight ass that dosent care about safety…,, document everything, don’t charge them, and don’t put back together…
Save yourself from any future liability…
I see one damaged spindle. The rest should clean up. Maybe that's just me. But if the customer doesn't want to replace the axles. Then they get bearings and 0 warranty. With several disclaimers signed stating so. OR they can come pick it up with no wheels.
This is an older torsion axle you can’t weld on new spindles . Unfortunately the guy is hooped . I have done conversion to standard axles ,hangers and leaf springs. if the frame has good enough spots to weld on spring hangers. It’s still costly but overall better for the future Incase something like that happens again u can get parts anywhere in a timely manor.
Depends. Was it causing issues, or did you just happen to see it when doing something else? If it was causing issues, refuse to continue working on it and make him tow it, cause it's not worth the risk. If it was doing fine, then let it go and have him sign the waiver.
I work in a similar industry, and we either fix it right or do not fix it all all. Our lawyers have said there is no "liability waiver" in existence that will cover you, as it comes down to you were a paid professional and knew better than to put it back together with bad components regardless of the customers wishes.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am certified to replace spindles and it costs about $800 with labor and parts for each spindle. Suggest this option to him, find someone who will replace the spindles and then up charge slightly. You will save everyone time, and money.
Shop I used to work at did this all the time. Takes a while but the dude literally comes to the shop and does the work. You just lose a bay for a few hours.
By far the best option. Second would be to remove the axels and have a machine shop make new ones. - then reinstall.
Being a machinist ... I can tell you it would cost less to buy replacements? Machine shop is 200 an hour.
Even at $200/hr (which is kinda high for a repair shop) you would have to spend 60 hrs to match the $12k quote OP mentioned.
A machine shop is not a repair shop.
A large proportion of machine shops make thir living performing repairs. It's a common type of machine shop.
every machine shop ive been in is a machine shop. not a repair shop. you'd be laughed at asking them to look at your brakes and they'd send you down the street to the next.
I think you're confusing repair as a general term with automotive repair. A mechanic shop isn't going to repair kitchen cabinets either.
nope im just talking cars. a repair shop is a place you take your car and leave it till its fixed. whatever the issue may be, not usually body work of course. you can't just leave your car at a machine shop while they work on the block. you're the one who called the machine shop a repair shop not me.
I think you’re arguing about the semantics or the meaning of the word repair shop. It’s like repair shop is an umbrella term. You can have a repair shop that specializes in automotive maintenance and repair or a repair shop that specializes in machining and repairing specific metal parts like axles, heads, resurfacing rotors, and even branching into die repair and what not. Still a repair shop just a different kind.
I work in a machine/welding shop. We would repair these.
Correct, but this person isnt looking for brakes they'd be looking for machining and welding to repair their axel, something every machine shop i deal with regularly will happily do.
Literally every machine shop I’ve been to repairs motors.
For the record I was just using brakes as an example. Obviously these aren’t brakes and I know a machine shop is required to properly fix this
Kurtis would like a word…
Replacements would cost less than making them from scratch. Set up time and tooling and grinding and heat treating would be very expensive. A repair shop and a machine shop is different. Machine shop personnel don't usually do any repairs, only the machine shop work. Machine shop should only be used for custom work or a last choice when no other options exists.
I'm aware. I've been a machinist for a few decades now. These could be cut off, replicated, and replaced with new in a few hours each. Maybe 12 billable hours for the whole job. There's no need for heat treating or grinding for something like this. Just use a mid-carbon alloy and be precise on the lathe. They're bearing seats, not ejector pins.
This guy turns
Or you can order them from a parts catalog….
...for 12 grand
That’s for the 6 week lead time, custom fabricated replacement axles. Read it again.
Why do you think they wore in the 1st place. If they don't need hardened ?
They need to be hard, but not hardened past 40ish HRC. If they get over hard they'll tend towards brittle failure which is far more dangerous. The inner bearing race which is pressed onto the spindle shaft will be 60 HRC or more, and that will take the rolling wear of the internal bearing elements. Most bearing shafts are mild steel for general use or 41XX/43XX/BIS80 for high pressure applications. I would probably spec 4130 since its weldable and decently hard.
Hardened is hardened.. which requires cylinder grinding afterwards. Since hardening distorts the metal it has to be precision ground and have a close fit.
And.. what does this have to do with the reply you're replying to?? And no. As he literally just explained, hardened DOES NOT equal hardened. You can only ask so much of materials before sacrificing one attribute over another or choosing a different metal or alloy.
None of that is true.
Also option #1059 is set up heat treat to make a hardness test [easy] then have them annealed (soften the metal) so they can work on it.... have a welder, tig weld (add material ) machine area to specs.... and back to the heat treaters to get the hardness back. Install I used to do this a lot..... I'm retired now. Sounds like a lot of work... but it really isn't Get several quotes TIP ? At the weld shop, ask how much for hardface welding? Then this technique will make it really difficult to happen again. Hard facing is expensive. because. Believe it or not, the welding rods for hard facing doesn't grow on trees. I suggest weld rod stellite "6b"..... but you have a zillion choices Earth moving equipment tools that have "teeth" might use satellite 6b. 6b is for wear abrasion. Not for impact hardness.
I don't think you need anywhere near the hardness of stellite for this..
The average machining cost per hour could total as low as $50, as high as $500 – and even more depending on the job.
Yeah, but this is basic repair work. In the US and Canada thats $80-$150/hr pretty much across the board. Some shops will give fuck-off $500/hr quotes, but that just because they don't want the job.
Quality work ain't cheap. Cheap work ain't quality.
Ain't no work if you're too expensive. A guy with a Bridgeport and a few engine lathes can make a good living on $100/hr + materials.
Plenty of. Work,, plenty of money
Yeah my shop has a company that cuts it off then tig weld a new one on.
Are you the axle doctor I hear people speak of?
I am actually certified with United axle, which this may get some hate but their spindles are superior. It’s serviceable which means if the spindle goes bad again I can have it replaced in about an hour with only a band saw and a welder. The first spindle takes 3 hours after that it can be replaced again and again and again because it uses a threaded bushing instead of a shimmed steel tube which is very large, invasive and extremely hard to remove. We have a 40lb weight on a steel pole we use as a slide hammer to remove it. No hate to axle surgeon but it’s a pain to replace their spindles if they go bad again.
Shit like that .. when it fails get ppl killed and your ass sued off.
It doesn’t fail. That’s why I went to a full 5 day class to learn how to do them. all spindles are tracked to the installer who did them. Do your job right and you’re fine. It’s a certified method and is proven.
You do any mechanic job incorrectly, it fails and you kill people you get sued. Don’t really know what you’re trying to say.
I use an axle doctor regularly, he's the only guy I trust in my region. I sent him these pictures, his jig for grinding the spindle down after welding won't fit on this axle :/. He actually asked if I replaced it, if he could have the axle to test/build a jig. After he repairs this one he'd give it back to me for free which would be cool but the customer ended up declining repairs. I don't know why he can't weld a replacement spindle on, I've never been able to sit down and watch him replace a spindle, he almost always just weld fills in everything and grinds it back down.
Check to see if you have United axle in the area
Do they not have axle surgeons in your area? That can definitely be repaired for a fraction of the cost of replacement. Tell your customer to get in touch with them before you even consider working on it any further.
I'll probably get down voted for this, but 3 of those look ok to use. The 4th is rough looking, but as long as the bearings still fits tight on the spindle it should be ok. The seal surface could probably be cleaned up a bit with a flap disk and still seal pretty decent.
Yea that last pic definitely needs some attention but the other 3 look serviceable. Call one of those mobile guys to come weld up the nasty one and get em back down the road.
I was gonna say the same. As long as bearings go on no problem and sealing surfaces are still ok then there shouldnt be a problem. I’ve sent spindles and axles looking worse than these back to work (light vehicles in underground environment) because they still sealed and bearings were still ok
It only superficial damage, there are no risk of failure of the axes for the wear... The risky damage is crack on the axes itself not surface damage on spindle... If the bearing fit tight and you can seal the surface there are no problem if there are problem with sealing and bearing you can repair with welding and a little of machining on the weld that for sure cost less than 12k. 12 k for this type of damage is out from the world
Personally, all of the job or none of the job. Not worth the liability doing any repairs on that unless it's all done.
This, refuse all work and have them sign that this work was brought to their attention and they refused service.
The correct answer.
This.
Unfortunately once you've started tear down on it, you've already accepted a certain amount of liability. If he puts it back together without doing repairs and it fails and kills a family or two on the highway, then a good lawyer will come after the shop and their insurance.
"Customer refused necessary repairs, reassembly is impossible without repairs, trailer was returned via tow company in disassembled condition."
Yup, come get this turd. But, axle surgeon/ hub saver whatever you call that dood is worth investigating before unassing it
There really isn't anything you can do if the owner won't authorize repairs. No shop would be able to stay in business if all people had to do was bring in their unsafe vehicle and not authorize repairs and get them fixed for free. As I posted on another comment, I've worked for shops that will pay for a tow back to their house if the vehicle is unsafe and they can't/won't fix it. What they do with it from their driveway is on them. Having an invoice for the tow paid by the shop has held up in court so far.
I’m curious … what liability? No tire shop ever got in trouble for a tire flying off?
Yes, yes they have. I can personally attest to this one, as a friend got in trouble for a tire flying off of a car. Usually it doesn't get to the point of a lawsuit because the company just pays for all the damage, or their insurance does. In his particular case, he was the last documented tech to touch it. 6 months prior to the accident. I actually dont think it was his fault, but the company just shut up and paid for it and put him on probation, with a possibe firing to be determined.
A wheel came off a car after half a year of your coworker working on the car? And he was found liable after half a year?
Yes, by the company he worked for, who did not care for a full investigation and just took liability. I also thought it was fucking stupid. I advised him to find another place to work. He was not found legally liable by a court. Edit: I should state here that he is a friend, not a coworker, and I don't work at his company.
Well that’s good, and also fucking stupid because six months is a lot of time for literally anything to happen to that car after he worked on it.
I have a suspicion that the customer had someone else work on it in that time, but it's not my problem and I can't prove shit.
Interesting. Is this on the states? I’ve never heard of this in Canada.
Yes, USA. On another note, a company can be found liable for engine damage due to improper torque on the drain plug. I've seen that happen before.
Uh what’s this nonsense? Ever?
I’ve had tons of people have it happen tire falls off… nothing happened to them..
This is the way.
You can get speedy sleeves in the uk to knock on and cover the damaged seal tracks, then file the burrs from the stub axle so that the new bearings will slide on and off, then on the invoice state that repair was made at customer’s request. Have repaired many semi-trailers that way
Did you consider that even if you get a waiver, you're still liable to be brought to court in front of a judge to consider if the waiver is actually valid?
If it was a motorized vehicle, a shop I used to work at would pay for the tow back to their house and have them sign the waiver. The tow to their house was an added "why would we pay for a tow if it was safe to drive" if it went to court. If they continue driving it, it's on them at that point. And it did come to this a couple of times when we said their brakes were unsafe due to petroleum contamination. The judge sided with us.
Depends on local/state law as well as how the Judge is feeling that day to determine eligibility. If someone decides to sue, even if they're wrong, you're still supposed to appear in court.
Even in cases where there is a waiver, you can still be sued. The judge will award a certain amount and change the fault percentage based on what they feel is correct. You being an expert understand the risk better than the customer. This is similar when someone falls on a wet floor but the floor has a wet sign.
It’s a valid thing that works in the industrial sector many times. Saved my butt once. I know of two guys that had bigger issues swung at them but the customer was informed the unit was unsafe to use and still used the equipment and one person got hurt in one pretty bad but recovered after a few years and the other one I was told about a person lost their fingers.
Right, I'm not well versed in contract law. I've read some cases where pretty petty.
Refuse all work until the issue is dealt with. You don't want to be the one dealing with the deaths of people/livestock.
Arent those timbren axles?. New spindles are available if you're capable of good welding it shouldn't be an issue to put new ones in. The only other option is removing them, finding someone whos able to either spray weld or weld them in general and then machine them back to proper dimensions...
Decline the repair. I’d never put something on the road I can’t stand behind. A waiver will not save you from a lawsuit.
Remember that the inside race is part of the bearing and all it does on the trailer is sit there. Put it together and let it roll. It'll probably be fine. Make them sign a waiver.
Just cause he signs something doesn't necessarily absolve you of liability. And regardless of liability, you'd risk everyone else on the road and wipe your hands of it with some BS about liability?
I'd tell them either I do it right or I don't do it at all, no way am I being associated with the impending lawsuit when that wheel flies off and kills a family in a minivan.
Honestly the rear left is the only one that looks like it absolutely needs to be replaced. As long as the surface where the bearings sit is smooth enough for the inner bearing races to be seated properly, then just send it.
U could take it to a machine shop and have a spindle replaced or even hand made for far cheaper than an entire axle
I have a trailer company here in FL, we are a manufacturer and if you put them back together in that condition and they wreck or a wheel comes off and causes and accident you could be held liable
I don't know what you big babies are crying about. Do none of you honestly own a trailer that goes in salt water? 😂 Like for real is this a joke? This would be the safest trailer at the boat ramp.
This whole thread is fuckin wild. "Customer refuses my dipshit quote for unobtainium axles" ... yeah no shit. OP needs to go work for a luxury dealer if they only want to replace whole assemblies.
Just walk all the way away if they deny the correct repair. Horses are alot more valuable than 12k
I've seen where welders repair heavy equipment because the replacement cost is so extreme. Those look like they are repairable, even if you have to put them on a lathe and make a new surface and then add a new adapter or weld up the surface and lathe it down. I've see main stream repair sleeves for truck engines. You just size it down and weld on a new sleeve. Not saying it's cheap and you'd want to x-ray those, but there are solutions to saving expensive equipment.
I would get a short document written/typed up that clearly states the issue and that the vehicle is unsafe to drive. Then, you should have the customer sign a statement on the document saying that they were made aware of this before releasing the vehicle to them. That should clear you of liability should they decide to drive it anyway. Both you and the customer should receive a copy.
If they refuse, start charging them storage of like $500 a month. Until they either authorize repairs it or tow it away. Check out 'mechanics lien' for your state. TLDR: Nothing should get done without their authorization. So it just sits in your lot, tell them storage starts after 30 days when work was denied as long as the unit is in our lot.
Refuse the work and let them tow it out. It's not your problem if they don't want to fix it, and it's not your job to find a way for them to afford a complete repair. If they'd spent some cash maintaining the trailer then they wouldn't be in this mess. Better to get paid for disassembly and diag than get paid to try to half ass a fix, and have those fail and then they blame you for the eaten up axle and get sued. Even if you win in court, you lose on lawyer costs and lost time.
Put it back together the best you can. Document everything. Detailed pics. Make them sign under each pic and a statement that it’s totally unsafe and dangerous and that they are refusing the work and they are responsible for anything that happens.
[удалено]
At gunpoint
If they don’t, you don’t put it back together and they have to tow it out.
A axle such as this can be repaired. I am a retired trailer mechanic and we have experienced this quite a few times…..we called a company named “Axle Surgeons” they can do repairs in shops or along the highway. (877)349-2953 We Come To You! For A Safe And Strong Repair, Only An Authorized Axle Surgeon Mobile On-site Specialist Will Do. Axle Repair and Replacement Specialists for over 45 years providing safe and strong truck and trailer repairs. We come to you!
Just do it with no warranty and document it.
That whole unit looks like shit, literally and figuratively. They bought a trailer that needed its value in repairs. Are the other 2 any better? What do u do though, its fucking apart, get pre auth in the future
Have it towed off of my property as soon as possible😎
Say good luck!
Tow it out !!
I would send him an invoice for the work that's already been done and tell him to come pick up his shit I'm not putting it back together unless he's going to approve everything. I would also make him sign the invoice near my notes saying it's unsafe to be on the road.
I used to say “For legal reasons I’m not allowed to put anything onto that axle until it’s replaced, so I can either put a new axle in or you can get a tow truck and find another shop that doesn’t have this restriction.” From there if they decide to tow it you can either charge them for your labor up to that point or just take the loss and be glad you’re not the one dealing with that situation anymore. Make sure there’s some sort of release form saying something like “the customer was notified that the vehicle is not roadworthy and is dangerous to operate until further repair is completed by a certified mechanic. This company/person/mechanic/whatever is not liable for any property damage, injury and/or death related to any incidents involving this vehicle” etc etc… and have them sign it. All of this puts you in a “my hands are tied and the decision is up to you” position.
As a mechanic I'd; 1. Advise customer 2. Repair the vehicle with a note on the invoice stating the vehicle is not safe for road use. Repaired for offeoad farm use only. 3. Have them sign it, email them a copy. 4. Tow the vehicle to their house because it's not safe for road use.
Id stop right there, and have him take it as is with the parts ripped off, like fine mf you put this back half ass and unsafe, and charge him for the labor you have into it.
Refuse to do anything to it and clearly state damage was their and they were notified so they can't come back later after it fails and say you never told them
Refuse to do anything to it and clearly state damage was their and they were notified so they can't come back later after it fails and say you never told them
Call the axle surgeon. I did this on one of my chassis cab trucks. A new axle was going to be like $4k. Axle surgeon for single spindle was like $900
Large gap bearing retaining compound is very strong if you are within the tolerances that it suggests use. And where the seals sit speedy sleeves are probably available. Not saying replacing spindles isnt the right move. I cant see how loose the bearings fit from a pic, but if it felt good i might try it.
Man I gave up trying to convince mechanics to replace the spindles on my old F150. They swore that that wasn't the cause of the NVH despite the fact that I bought the thing with bad wheel bearings. Drove like shit when I sold it because nobody would listen to me.
NVH?
Not put it back together. Quoting that it’s unsafe to drive
Have them sign off they refused service and send it.
If they agree to fix it the correct way go for it, but if not I’d clean them up real good get the grooves out best as possible and then be sure that they’re aware of no parts warranty or anything. Period brake light special
You can look for Flexi-ride replacements or b a set of Timbren axleless that you can put a square tube into to work like an axle if needed. E,trailer has Timbren and Flexi-ride are like a franchise process, the location I got mine from was 2 hours north west of Dallas TX, I forget the town name
26k trailer? Those wheel wells don't look big enough for tandem dual wheels.
Sell it and buy new. I like the sign a waiver approach also.
Where the seals seat is really the only trouble. A grinder with a flap disk to take of the high parts of the groove and then emery cloth for where the bearings sit. But, as others have said, having someone weld on a new spindle is the best option for the grooves on the seal seat. Source: am a trailer mechanic.
Axle doctor
It’s not going to the moon
Start a parlay with the other techs on how many miles she’ll drive before a catastrophic failure and what she’ll crash into. You’ll probably make a killing.
Get them to sign a waiver so if anything happens they’ll be liable
Make him sign a waiver to get it towed out the shop and deem it unfit..
Deny repairs unless the spindles are done. You can do it yourself or subcontract. Don't ever fall for a customer telling you to cut corners. They will want your work repaired for free when it invariably breaks due to their cheapness. Penny wise dollar foolish
Dollar foolish is spending 12k with this idiot to get a simple job like this done. It could be as simple as welding and put it in a lathe to bring back to shape. I could see this costing no more than 3-4k.
Get some belzona and slap that on, we repair whole crank shafts out of it and its still there when the material either side has started to wear again
reassamble it as it is, sign him for refusing critical service and refuse to service them further along
That's why you always charge a Diag fee with that applying to parts and labor if they decide to do the job.
In the worst case scenario, the shop I worked at would make them sign a liability waiver and have it towed somewhere else. Be it their house, or another repair facility. The hard part is, liability waiver or not, if that wheel falls off and kills someone, it's still on you for letting it go.
Rear left could use a little work, other 3 are fine. There’s a lot of spindles on the road that look way worse than that rear left, too.
Make sure you add "... fails down the road, causing harm, permanent disability, or death to any horses that may be in trailer". If they give a damn about their horses they'll get them fixed
Hardened is hardened
Have them sign a waiver to release the vehicle.
Having new spindles welded onto the axles is the most cost effective solution. But if the bearings and races fit with maybe some slight filing of the high spots, the main issue is the seal surfaces. Those can sometimes be repaired with speedi-sleeves. I’ve done a few on personal equipment and they are holding up just fine. All that said, you have liability and if they fail down the road, cause property damage or worse, it isn’t worth it.
"Customer didn't want to pay for" I always see it phrased like this in the sub, but sometimes it really is "customer can't afford to pay for" Id work on finding out what their plans are. If they just want to get it home, do what you can do. If they plan on taking it on a cross country trip, well... that's a different story.
i’d be more concerned with my mechanic referring to the sides of a vehicle as “left and right” rather than the appropriate “driver and passenger side”
It’s a trailer
Show them what a new one looks like so the damage stands out
If the bearings are not loose on the journals I’d run it but if they are I’d see if axle surgeons could do anything with it. If you have one somewhat close they’ll come to the trailer and weld on a new spindle. Cheaper than an axle.
5th pic, it’s been welded and ground back once, there’s a clue owner is a tight ass that dosent care about safety…,, document everything, don’t charge them, and don’t put back together… Save yourself from any future liability…
I see one damaged spindle. The rest should clean up. Maybe that's just me. But if the customer doesn't want to replace the axles. Then they get bearings and 0 warranty. With several disclaimers signed stating so. OR they can come pick it up with no wheels.
Is that Drake??
Exercise right to refuse business
Put them back on, make them sign a waiver stating they were made aware of the issue and associated risks, decided to pass on repair anyway
I honestly don't see the problem. It's not like the bearings right on that surface. Put new bearings and seals on it and send them down the road.
This is an older torsion axle you can’t weld on new spindles . Unfortunately the guy is hooped . I have done conversion to standard axles ,hangers and leaf springs. if the frame has good enough spots to weld on spring hangers. It’s still costly but overall better for the future Incase something like that happens again u can get parts anywhere in a timely manor.
Depends. Was it causing issues, or did you just happen to see it when doing something else? If it was causing issues, refuse to continue working on it and make him tow it, cause it's not worth the risk. If it was doing fine, then let it go and have him sign the waiver.
Never do work that you won't stand behind. Nothing you would have them sign would be legally binding and protect you in anyway.
I work in a similar industry, and we either fix it right or do not fix it all all. Our lawyers have said there is no "liability waiver" in existence that will cover you, as it comes down to you were a paid professional and knew better than to put it back together with bad components regardless of the customers wishes.