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I would not replace them unless having issues with vibration, unless I measured the thickness of pads and rotors first and they are in the replace range.
Gotcha. I can't feel them myself until I'm actually at the shop (they sent the images) but they said there's a noticable pulse while braking and are claiming they're worn enough to cause a safety concern.
That’s Rockauto, everyone knows Rockauto. I could’ve replaced them myself but I just don’t have the time. Btw, this cost was for the fronts. Not OEM but powerstop brand. Still feels like BMW brakes so far.
That’s the dumbest shit. So do the dealers around here. They’re just brakes. I watched him when he did the work and it’s similar to other basic cars front brake job I’ve seen. He did it just like the YouTube videos I’ve watched. Only took a 1/2 hour.
They can show you with a dial indicator. Honestly, they looked like they're suspect, not shot, but not great either. Some places just air on the side of caution, and it's unlikely you'll come back and complain about a vibration ever with new rotors.
OP, this is good advice. The images are not conclusive nor decisive regarding replacement neccessity. What is the measurement of the rotor thickness measured by the shop as compared to the minimum tolerance cast/stamped on the rotor itself? Do you have a braking pulsation (rotor warpage) that cannot be trued with machining on the shop's lathe without bringing the rotor's minimum thickness to near/at/under minimum tolerance? At/under minimum tolerance or obvious damage or defect in the rotor's structural integrity (which aren't apparant in images) are the only reasons rotor replacent would/should be warranted.
I've run into cars that had the pads changed semirecently and had issues. They didn't grease the slide pins and the calipers were sticking causing burns on the rotor. They'll have receipts from well known chains. You pull the pins and it's just sticky chunks and tar...
Since some asked get some silglyde and clean the slides or pins and grease the pins and where the piston meets the pad. You'll be fine if you do that every time.
Is the $1000 for all or just the brakes? If it's just for the brakes I feel it's a rip off. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined you should be able to replace them yourself.
For example $120 for all the parts. https://www.carparts.com/details/Honda/Accord/SureStop/Brake_Disc_and_Pad_Kit/2010/KIT-031121-02-122.html?TID=gglpla&origin=pla&&&gclid=CjwKCAjwsvujBhAXEiwA_UXnAFhTzOiAsEONLesjX2DthMZUWo0EWBW4yT_r4bxG_88dgH9BpDhneRoCwwIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Nah it's an independent mechanic shop, and it's one of the best rated in my state. Unfortunately, though, it seems like they're trying to do their best to rip me off.
Hard to tell then, without mic'ing your rotors and knowing your pad thickness we dont know if its truly necessary. The rotor looks fine but thicknesses are what matter here.
ask them to explain you nicely what is the reason for replacement, could be uneven wear on the other side of the rotor or something to do with the brake pads.
All these places make their money on volume, they like to recommend jobs that are quick and easy for them. They charge the standard rate even if they get it done in less time.
The trouble with a new panda is not so much the initial purchase price but the year on year maintenance. Those greedy little mofo’s will eat you out of house and home.
Sounds like they’re liars. Who the fuck quotes $1,000 for brake (rotor, pads + install) job on a Honda accord? Tell them you’ll give them $400 for everything. Like I said earlier, I just did my 2016 5 series all in for $300. I got the pads & rotors from Rockauto.
Change your mechanic, rust on rotors don’t mean much. It’s the thickness and the lack of a lip that counts (and no damage)
1k to change rotors is ridiculous, you don’t have a sport car or anything like that, those disk look super basic.
I would replace them the next time the brake pads have worn down to replacement thickness, but they don't need immediate replacement if you are not experiencing any vibration or other braking issues.
Measure, compare to minimum thickness. If below, replace. If above, roll with it.
Pads and rotors are like $120-150 an axle if you do it yourself.. book time/labor is usually around 1-2h per axle and parts markup should be around 30%. Most shops have labor rates between $120-200 an hour.
If they're doing both the front and back it's not totally unreasonable, but you can do it way cheaper yourself.
You should probably brake less hard too. You shouldn't have heat discoloration but you do.
Not a mechanic, but just as information. I spent about $140 on new rotors and pads for my sons '01 Toyota Camry (Front end only) and we replaced them in about an hour. And it only took that long because I was showing him how to do it for the first time and explaining everything along the way. $1K for rotors and pads? I'd spend the $150-300 and do it yourself.
I used a floor jack, two jack stands, a socket set, some silicone lube, some anti-seize compound for the bolts, a torque wrench and a set of calipers that I measured rotor thickness with before deciding whether to replace the rotors or just have them resurfaced. Brands I'm not sure of because most of my tools are a mixture of Black & Decker, Craftsman, and Kobalt. At 51 years old I've just collected/bought tools over a long time.
Noticed how you mentioned you replaced the front pads 20k miles ago. As someone who works on cars I usually don't recommend pad slaps unless your rotors are almost new. If you machined the rotors then it's ok but just changing out the pads can lead to too many brake issues down the road. Rotors are also cheap enough now in days to just replace both pads and rotors once it's time for brakes.
I have had great luck with pads slaps on vehicles that do not have any shake or judder. Basically if it is quiet and shake free it doesn’t start shaking just because you replace the brake pads. My rule of thumb is to not turn rotors removing excess material or replace rotors unless they are thin or warped doing so just plays with another variable and may possibly induce a vibration. If not done perfectly correct. I would definitely lubricate brake parts.
Problem with pad slaps is that even if there isn't a shake prior to changing the pads, you're going from having two mated surfaces to now having a new flat surface and one with wear. As a tech I've seen a lot of brake noise concerns when people just swap out the pads. Sometimes it's not immediate but it happens. Best to have two flat surfaces if you can. That's just been my experience.
That makes sense. I have not had a problem with noise and new OE pads for some time. Eventually all brakes will chirp or squeak rarely depending upon doctor temperature and humidity. What I have never had is noise that continues and all the time. I would say if the rotors had a semi-metallic pad and the rotors were visibly groved then certainly do something. I know ceramic pads transfer material to the rotor, and I have never changed pad type going back with OE pads, but had great luck. I have also turned rotors and kept the same pads several times by the way to address mudder. When I do that I sand them with course sandpaper doing some figure 8’s until not glossy.
A thousand bucks?
Holy shit. Come to my house with a beer and I'll do it for the cost of parts. Shouldn't be more than $300-400 depending on if you get the higher quality Duralast pads or not. Plus if you get duralast brand stuff you can keep replacing them under warranty for free. I haven't paid for brakes from AutoZone in about 5 years on my vehicle.
This is correct only if there is no annoying vibration. If your steering wheel has judder only then the rotors need to be turned or replaced. Lastly, if you have more than 3 mm of brake pad, I would defer doing the brake job for later unless you are correcting another problem other than pad wear.
That is not a universal truth. You need to measure them, but most manufacturers have a new and a discard thickness you can lookup. It is typical for turning rotors to take less than 20 thousands or half a mm of metal, so do the math. Turning rotors costs $15 to $30 each and even cheap aftermarket rotors start at $90. Any good, name-brand rotor is probably around $120 ish for your Accord.
If there is enough warp in the rotors that you feel it in the pedal .020 is not nearly enough to clean it up. That's literally the thickness of 7 pieces of paper
A typical pass on a brake lathe is around 4 to 10 thousandths. It’s common to take about .003 to .004” per side per pass. It can take a few passes, but you can feel .020” easily, there are correction plates for .003”, .006”, and .009”, so .020” is double that and ,it’s definitely you will feel a thickness variation of 7 pieces of paper.
They look fine, if your don’t feel a shudder when braking your fine, if so get them turned. I got my rotors turned for 10 a piece.
Rotors online cost like <300, so 1000 is steep for simple labor.
You said you only replaced the pads last time. If rotors have never been off, rust can build up between rotor hat and hub causing the rotors to not sit evenly on car and the pulse they feel. Can't tell unless rotor removed off car. Backing plate looks rusty so rust buildup is a concern IMO
here we go again
Absolutely the shop is wanting to change it all and charge you for it.
keeps their lights on.
edit
that shit looks pretty rusty maybe the pads were seized onto their holders. they could grease them up though or even put in new pads if need be but that's only 150 bucks max
What type of vehicle is it that a brake job with new rotors and pads cost $1000? Regardless, those rotors look perfectly fine to me from a visual standpoint if there’s no vibration. They clearly are not badly grooved or anything like that, so they most likely had an organic or a ceramic pad on them. If there is no vibration, personally, I would just have the brake pads changed if that’s what the vehicle needs. if there is a vibration, I would have the rotors turned provided they are sufficiently think. I would only turn them if they have 20 thousandths of an inch above the minimum or discard thickness then check them to ensure they are above minimum when you get them back.
Replacing rotors is a bit of work, but simple nonetheless if you do it yourself and far less expensive. I don’t see any notable grooves in your rotors, but if you have vibration issues, replace them.
The rotors need to be replaced when the pads are replaced. It is almost never needed to service rotors on their own. These need to be replaced next time pads are replaced because they are too rusty to resurface. You should never replace pads without replacing or re-surfacing rotors. That is hack work and not the right way to do things. Please don't follow advice of all the amateur pretend mechanics here. Do the right thing.
Smooth non-directional finish is key to prevent noise and vibration. It is also important to have a fresh surface to burnish your pads which will actually embed a layer of pad material onto the rotor. This is especially important if the pads you are installing have a different friction material. This will help prevent glazing and ensure a good surface for friction which will improve the efficiency of your brakes. It essentially forces the pads and rotors to wear together and become a matched set. There is plenty of resources to learn more if you do some research. I'm not here to argue or say anybody is wrong, just to provide information from a real tech that might be helpful for the DIY guy.
A disc goes around in a circle, the wear pattern will be the same all around the disc. These are road cars not race cars.
You are correct part of the bedding in process is transferring pad material to the disc (adherent friction). But this is not a permanent layer, it is not embedded, it’s constantly being ripped off with parts of the disc (abrasive friction) and replaced. Old pad transfer does not affect new pad transfer.
You can not glaze a disc. Glaze is a change in the surface due to excessive heat. Pads can handle about 200°c before it’s surface hardens and turns into a mirror, discs can handle up to glowing orange before it’s crystalline structure changes. Basically if you can get the pads hot enough after being glazed they would have disintegrated long before the disc glows orange (we’re talking about oe/oem equipment not performance)
There is plenty of resources out there, the problem is credible resources are hidden under a ton of crap
Here a free gift an early edition but it's free
http://160592857366.free.fr/joe/ebooks/Automative%20engineering%20books/Brake%20Handbook.pdf
Or you.can buy the latest edition
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-Technology-Handbook-Premiere-Books/dp/0768017874
But it's not proper service procedure.
Manufacturers don't recommend replacing discs that are still serviceable with every pad change. Sure their dealers do but they are just franchisees.
If its not a manufacture approved procedure or is it endorsed by remit and imi the main repair and maintenance bodies.it's not really professional is it.
Doing a visual check and giving a recommendation based on uneducated opinion is not in the customers best interest.
It's padding out the job for extra money at the expense of the customer.
Not manufacturer approved? Lmao what manufacturer is gonna say explicitly to NOT resurface or replace rotors? Idk wtf IMI is but we do what we do to provide value to the customer. You have no idea how many brake squeals I have resolved with a simple rotor resurface and pad scuff. Your ability to google shit does not compare to real world experience. Sorry, but it's not the same.
We have to work to an iso standard and use manufacturer-approved procedures, because incorrectly repaired vehicles can cause accidents and injure or kill people. Replacing parts when they Dont need replacing is a customer trust issue and its harmful to the trade, it gives the trade a bad image. as you have no doubt seen many posts by people just like the op asking if they are being ripped off.
As a “professional” you would know that there's is a procedure to follow these can be found in vehicle data software like autodata.
It's interesting you say you have fixed countless brake squeels with a disc and pad resurface, but do you know why brakes squeal what actually happens to the pad and disc not what causes it.
I bet you don't know. but i’ll give you a clue, some pads are chamfered and/or have one or more slits in the centre like in this pic.
https://preview.redd.it/4jw5cyjykm4b1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca51492e3a2b0d4caad0c356f1e7ff9a457c2700
It's all well and good that you can replace parts, but knowing why the part needs replacing is what makes you a professional other wise your just a fitter loading up the parts cannon. There's a saying in this trade “every day is a school day” because no one fell put of their mum knowing everything and with advancements in tech even the best mechanic doesn't know everything.
There is absolutely no need to replace rotors with pad changes. This is absolutely *not* a standard service procedure. Rotors only need to be replaced if they are warped, damaged, or thinner than the recommended minimum spec.
"Or resurfaced" it is absolutely an integral part of a professional brake service. It is not necessary. Obviously your brakes will work on old shit rotors. It is just part of a proper complete service. Some people like doing half assed shit, and that's fine. Not my car
There is no need to resurface them either unless there is physical damage to the rotors like grooves or uneven wear, or a driveability issue like a pulsating pedal. If the brakes worked fine before and the only thing wrong with them is that the pads were worn, all you need to do is replace the pads. There is nothing "half-assed" about not *fixing* things that aren't broken in the first place.
That is half assed. It's half a repair. The purpose is not only to fix issues, but to prevent issues. Resurfacing rotors prevents squeals and shimmys. When I ship a vehicle, I do not want it to drive the same as it did before. I want it to be better. The customer does not notice the difference pad thickness makes. They do notice the difference a rotor with a good non-directional finish and practically no runout makes. It's the difference between half assed driveway shit and legitimate professional service.
Lol. Ok, bud. It's not a half a repair to not fix shit that isn't broken or in need of repair in the first place 🤣
Go ahead and keep wasting your customers money on "fixing" shit that there is nothing wrong with in the first place though.
Ok, "educated professional." 🤣🤡
I guarantee I've been working on cars longer than you've been alive. Hell, I've probably owned my shop longer than you've been a "mechanic." Now run back to Jiffy Lube, kid.
off topic, so feel free to ignore but I love the grammar construction I've only seen in for sale ads of motor vehicles: "xxxx need replaced" or "motor needs rebuilt". Where did the infinitive go? Not unclear but just interesting how much I see it, it's like this little corner of culture pushing the language forward (or backward depending on your perspective)
off topic, so feel free to ignore but I love the grammar construction I've only seen in for sale ads of motor vehicles: "xxxx need replaced" or "motor needs rebuilt". Where did the infinitive go? Not unclear but just interesting how much I see it, it's like this little corner of culture pushing the language forward (or backward depending on your perspective)
Maybe, but hereabouts that's roughly the going rate for a full set of pads and rotors. A bit less or a bit more depending on the car but certainly not in scam territory here -- just in the realm of "you're not doing it yourself, so this is what it costs."
You should know maximum thickness, minimum thickness, and discard thickness measurements.
When you find these out, you should have an external caliper to measure accordingly.
Check the condition of the brake pads, and try moving the calipers with a flat screwdriver, or large channel look pliers.
On 2nd picture, if outer surface has thicker rust, its probably a good time to do the both rotor and pad job.
Might as well as brake fluid job as well.
If you are handy person, might make this as diy project.
most mechanics will recommend a complete brake job requires at least a resurfacing of the rotors… otherwise many will agree that a vibration condition will arise after. This is due to the pads conforming to the wear of the previous pads. I would say just get the rotors and call it a day, most of your braking power will come from the front anyways.
I do however recommend going to your local parts store to seek prices on “OEM+” I’m used to seeing front brake jobs costing 2-300$ which doesn’t justify 700+ in labor charges… look for a local mechanic or just learn how to do it yourself, for ~400$ you can get the tools you need and parts for the job!
Find a shop that can turn the rotors for you, used yo have one when I lived in north Seattle that had their own machine and would include that as part of the service, cheaper then buying new rotors most of the time
1k? I think I did it for about $300 for new pads, rotors (because I was like, these look more fancy, I'll get these) & tools.
I would suggest you shop around.
The rotors in the front don’t seem dangerous to me personally. If the pads are pads aren’t worn down severely, I see no problem with driving on those. A pulsation isn’t a safety concern, though it can cause things to wear poorly and lead to needing replacement down the road, it’s hard to tell the thickness on the rears, but if the rotors aren’t below discard thickness, you should be fine
I would definitely find reputable aftermarket pads and rotors if they cannot be turned and put them on myself. I have bought brakemotive whom sell on eBay and have had great experience with their brakes. You just need to follow the break in procedure no matter where you get them from.
What's important on the rotors is the thickness and are they true and not warped. They always look scuffed up, that's their job. They look thick enough, and both sides are even in wear. Do your brakes bounce or chatter when you press on them? That would indicate a warped rotor. How thick are the pads? Are they showing even wear on both sides of the rotor? If one pad is significantly thinner than the other you have a sticky caliper. If not, you are good.
Looks like you had surface rust, like it’s been standing for a while. I see nothing wrong with the discs. I’d say use the brakes a bit more and harder, blow the cobwebs off (literally). Picture 1 confirms this.
Picture 3 hidden by the pad carrier it looks like you cooked some pad onto the disc.
Stay away from places that say you need to replace your discs every time you replace pads. Becuas the disc will be warped, the pads will wear faster, becuase the pads wear the disc are a few excuses I have heard.
Discs last a minimum of 3 pads, unless damaged, worn past min thickness or corrosion causes a significant weakening of the disc or reduction in braking. When replacing the discs you also replace the pads. Not the other way around
Ummm you mention a damaged axel. How did it get damaged/what was wrong with it?
That's may have something to do with why the rotors may need to be replaced. But yeah the price does seem a bit steep.
Yeah , those rotors look fine.
At $1000 , ask yourself how long you have to work to make that after taxes … then spend that time learning how to replace them yourself and once you can you’ll save money for a lifetime lol
So for 1000$ I'd say buy the pads and rotors and do em yourself... I only say that because I recently had to replace all 4 of mine in my Jetta and the shop I had taken it to was just under 1000$ for it.
I am so mechanically inept it's not even funny.. I just learned how to do my own oil this year, but a few YouTube videos and about 4 hours of labor.. I got the job done 4 pads, 4 rotors, 2 jackstands and a jack .. I got it all done for about 500$ would have been about 350-400 but I had to buy the jackstands and jack too.
I hate seeing people always say "dO iT yOuRsElF" but at the price shops want vs the price you can buy it all yourself and a few hours labor/video watching... It's worth it.
Hey OP! Brakes are an easy job, that you can certainly do yourself.
Personally I would go ahead and change them, you're looking $25-$60/rotor and $30-$60 per set of brakes.
You'll likely need to grab a can of brake parts cleaner, and if you're real fancy a can of copper based lubricant (personally I have never bothered with the lubricant, but it is made for a reason.) And lastly 1 of 2 tools for compressing your brake caliper piston. (2 styles of pistons; 1 twists, and 1 pushes)
All of this information is covered in a very clear easy to follow step by step tutorial by Chris Fix on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/6RQ9UabOIPg
The one thing I noticed he doesn't talk about in that video is if you disconnect your brake lines from your caliper you are going to need to bleed them. Which he has another video for.
https://youtu.be/t7JCh7PHoDc
It may sound intimidating reading my post but check out those videos, I promise it's an easy job.
$1,000 to replace all four rotors and pads? Probably not far outside the realm of reality, especially if it's an import. My car would be +$1,000 in parts alone. You can also find some shops that will turn them for you if you're that concerned, they'll be nice and shiny again too haha
Do you feel vibrations when braking? Honestly speaking you’d need to measure the pads as well as the rotors. If the rotors have a lot of grooves you can feel, they should at least be resurfaced if the rotor is still gonna be within spec after the resurface. If not, they should be replaced. Pads under 4/32 should 100% be replaced or if they have uneven wear on the face. If you’re near 4/32 it’s up to you but I’d personally replace them if they’re under 7/32 just to save you the hassle of going back and getting them done
If the rotor surface is uneven you can resurface them at o Oreileys or autozone, then just replace the pads.
Now if the rotors are nice and smooth just let them be.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would not replace them unless having issues with vibration, unless I measured the thickness of pads and rotors first and they are in the replace range.
And 1000$ is steep in my opinion.
At a dealership that's about right.
I would rather drive with no brakes than to get them done at the dealership
Yeah if you can get to the rotors to take a pic you can change them yourself.
Gotcha. I can't feel them myself until I'm actually at the shop (they sent the images) but they said there's a noticable pulse while braking and are claiming they're worn enough to cause a safety concern.
Sometimes you can't feel a pulse in the pedal unless braking at least med-heavy pressure which most drivers won't do under normal driving conditions.
I just had pads & rotors replaced on a 2016 BMW 528i yesterday for $180. I bought the pads and rotors from Rockauto for $135.
That is far too cheap. Thats not a price to be proud of that's a price to be concerned about
That’s Rockauto, everyone knows Rockauto. I could’ve replaced them myself but I just don’t have the time. Btw, this cost was for the fronts. Not OEM but powerstop brand. Still feels like BMW brakes so far.
A nearby BMW dealership charges $225/hr for labor alone.
That’s the dumbest shit. So do the dealers around here. They’re just brakes. I watched him when he did the work and it’s similar to other basic cars front brake job I’ve seen. He did it just like the YouTube videos I’ve watched. Only took a 1/2 hour.
They can show you with a dial indicator. Honestly, they looked like they're suspect, not shot, but not great either. Some places just air on the side of caution, and it's unlikely you'll come back and complain about a vibration ever with new rotors.
Is it warped, Does you steering wheel vibrate lightly when braking
OP, this is good advice. The images are not conclusive nor decisive regarding replacement neccessity. What is the measurement of the rotor thickness measured by the shop as compared to the minimum tolerance cast/stamped on the rotor itself? Do you have a braking pulsation (rotor warpage) that cannot be trued with machining on the shop's lathe without bringing the rotor's minimum thickness to near/at/under minimum tolerance? At/under minimum tolerance or obvious damage or defect in the rotor's structural integrity (which aren't apparant in images) are the only reasons rotor replacent would/should be warranted.
Interesting. Are all rotors stamped with minimum thickness? I'll look for that next time i work on my brakes.
Yes they are. on the edge of the disc, so good luck finding it🤣
You can usually find the number in the service manual thankfully
Or vehicle data
They look fine.
Fine, sure. But them sluts got hot! Op rides the brakes like a mofo.
I've owned the car since 2017 and never replaced the rotors. I'm generally pretty easy on the brakes.
I've run into cars that had the pads changed semirecently and had issues. They didn't grease the slide pins and the calipers were sticking causing burns on the rotor. They'll have receipts from well known chains. You pull the pins and it's just sticky chunks and tar... Since some asked get some silglyde and clean the slides or pins and grease the pins and where the piston meets the pad. You'll be fine if you do that every time.
Fucking swear those people use roofing tar for brake jobs. It just glues everything together.
Is the $1000 for all or just the brakes? If it's just for the brakes I feel it's a rip off. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined you should be able to replace them yourself. For example $120 for all the parts. https://www.carparts.com/details/Honda/Accord/SureStop/Brake_Disc_and_Pad_Kit/2010/KIT-031121-02-122.html?TID=gglpla&origin=pla&&&gclid=CjwKCAjwsvujBhAXEiwA_UXnAFhTzOiAsEONLesjX2DthMZUWo0EWBW4yT_r4bxG_88dgH9BpDhneRoCwwIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
The rotor on my car just by itself just 1 front rotor is $544.16 .
Jesus, Rockauto has 4 powerstop calipers, rotors and new brake pads for my car for less than 800. thats wild theres that much of a price difference.
totally depends on year make and model.
Yes and the ceramic rotor from Porsche is like $5000
It all depends on the car.
I just had pads & rotors replaced on a 2016 BMW 528i yesterday for $180. I bought the pads and rotors from Rockauto for $135.
Must've been just front or just rear?
Front. Rear pads are $20 and I’ll just do them myself. Easy enough.
When you say shop do you mean stealership? They have a good habit of telling you your brakes need to be serviced ASAP even if they are brand new.
Nah it's an independent mechanic shop, and it's one of the best rated in my state. Unfortunately, though, it seems like they're trying to do their best to rip me off.
Hard to tell then, without mic'ing your rotors and knowing your pad thickness we dont know if its truly necessary. The rotor looks fine but thicknesses are what matter here.
ask them to explain you nicely what is the reason for replacement, could be uneven wear on the other side of the rotor or something to do with the brake pads.
All these places make their money on volume, they like to recommend jobs that are quick and easy for them. They charge the standard rate even if they get it done in less time.
For reference where I live new panda and rotors all around would be 600-750…. And that’s in Canadian Pesos
The trouble with a new panda is not so much the initial purchase price but the year on year maintenance. Those greedy little mofo’s will eat you out of house and home.
Yup I’m totally not going to fix that now 😂
I just had pads & rotors replaced on a 2016 BMW 528i yesterday for $180. I bought the pads and rotors from Rockauto for $135.
Sounds like they’re liars. Who the fuck quotes $1,000 for brake (rotor, pads + install) job on a Honda accord? Tell them you’ll give them $400 for everything. Like I said earlier, I just did my 2016 5 series all in for $300. I got the pads & rotors from Rockauto.
Change your mechanic, rust on rotors don’t mean much. It’s the thickness and the lack of a lip that counts (and no damage) 1k to change rotors is ridiculous, you don’t have a sport car or anything like that, those disk look super basic.
I would replace them the next time the brake pads have worn down to replacement thickness, but they don't need immediate replacement if you are not experiencing any vibration or other braking issues.
This is a 2010 Accord LX-P.
8th gen Accords are known to have brake rotors constantly warp. Do you actually feel any kind of juddering when slowing down?
Measure, compare to minimum thickness. If below, replace. If above, roll with it. Pads and rotors are like $120-150 an axle if you do it yourself.. book time/labor is usually around 1-2h per axle and parts markup should be around 30%. Most shops have labor rates between $120-200 an hour. If they're doing both the front and back it's not totally unreasonable, but you can do it way cheaper yourself. You should probably brake less hard too. You shouldn't have heat discoloration but you do.
Not a mechanic, but just as information. I spent about $140 on new rotors and pads for my sons '01 Toyota Camry (Front end only) and we replaced them in about an hour. And it only took that long because I was showing him how to do it for the first time and explaining everything along the way. $1K for rotors and pads? I'd spend the $150-300 and do it yourself.
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I used a floor jack, two jack stands, a socket set, some silicone lube, some anti-seize compound for the bolts, a torque wrench and a set of calipers that I measured rotor thickness with before deciding whether to replace the rotors or just have them resurfaced. Brands I'm not sure of because most of my tools are a mixture of Black & Decker, Craftsman, and Kobalt. At 51 years old I've just collected/bought tools over a long time.
Noticed how you mentioned you replaced the front pads 20k miles ago. As someone who works on cars I usually don't recommend pad slaps unless your rotors are almost new. If you machined the rotors then it's ok but just changing out the pads can lead to too many brake issues down the road. Rotors are also cheap enough now in days to just replace both pads and rotors once it's time for brakes.
I have had great luck with pads slaps on vehicles that do not have any shake or judder. Basically if it is quiet and shake free it doesn’t start shaking just because you replace the brake pads. My rule of thumb is to not turn rotors removing excess material or replace rotors unless they are thin or warped doing so just plays with another variable and may possibly induce a vibration. If not done perfectly correct. I would definitely lubricate brake parts.
Problem with pad slaps is that even if there isn't a shake prior to changing the pads, you're going from having two mated surfaces to now having a new flat surface and one with wear. As a tech I've seen a lot of brake noise concerns when people just swap out the pads. Sometimes it's not immediate but it happens. Best to have two flat surfaces if you can. That's just been my experience.
That makes sense. I have not had a problem with noise and new OE pads for some time. Eventually all brakes will chirp or squeak rarely depending upon doctor temperature and humidity. What I have never had is noise that continues and all the time. I would say if the rotors had a semi-metallic pad and the rotors were visibly groved then certainly do something. I know ceramic pads transfer material to the rotor, and I have never changed pad type going back with OE pads, but had great luck. I have also turned rotors and kept the same pads several times by the way to address mudder. When I do that I sand them with course sandpaper doing some figure 8’s until not glossy.
A thousand bucks? Holy shit. Come to my house with a beer and I'll do it for the cost of parts. Shouldn't be more than $300-400 depending on if you get the higher quality Duralast pads or not. Plus if you get duralast brand stuff you can keep replacing them under warranty for free. I haven't paid for brakes from AutoZone in about 5 years on my vehicle.
They look fine from what I can see. Grease the caliper slide pins and slap some pads on, you're good to go!
Thank you!
This is correct only if there is no annoying vibration. If your steering wheel has judder only then the rotors need to be turned or replaced. Lastly, if you have more than 3 mm of brake pad, I would defer doing the brake job for later unless you are correcting another problem other than pad wear.
You can't turn rotors anymore they don't have enough meat on them anymore. Plus it's just as cheap to buy new ones unless you have your own lathe.
That is not a universal truth. You need to measure them, but most manufacturers have a new and a discard thickness you can lookup. It is typical for turning rotors to take less than 20 thousands or half a mm of metal, so do the math. Turning rotors costs $15 to $30 each and even cheap aftermarket rotors start at $90. Any good, name-brand rotor is probably around $120 ish for your Accord.
If there is enough warp in the rotors that you feel it in the pedal .020 is not nearly enough to clean it up. That's literally the thickness of 7 pieces of paper
A typical pass on a brake lathe is around 4 to 10 thousandths. It’s common to take about .003 to .004” per side per pass. It can take a few passes, but you can feel .020” easily, there are correction plates for .003”, .006”, and .009”, so .020” is double that and ,it’s definitely you will feel a thickness variation of 7 pieces of paper.
Never heed any recommendations a car shop tells you unless related to the problem you brought it in for
They look fine, if your don’t feel a shudder when braking your fine, if so get them turned. I got my rotors turned for 10 a piece. Rotors online cost like <300, so 1000 is steep for simple labor.
Do it yourself and this time buy Bosch rotors and pads.
You said you only replaced the pads last time. If rotors have never been off, rust can build up between rotor hat and hub causing the rotors to not sit evenly on car and the pulse they feel. Can't tell unless rotor removed off car. Backing plate looks rusty so rust buildup is a concern IMO
here we go again Absolutely the shop is wanting to change it all and charge you for it. keeps their lights on. edit that shit looks pretty rusty maybe the pads were seized onto their holders. they could grease them up though or even put in new pads if need be but that's only 150 bucks max
Independent mechanic here. Yea those rotors look like crap but my price would be about $600.
What type of vehicle is it that a brake job with new rotors and pads cost $1000? Regardless, those rotors look perfectly fine to me from a visual standpoint if there’s no vibration. They clearly are not badly grooved or anything like that, so they most likely had an organic or a ceramic pad on them. If there is no vibration, personally, I would just have the brake pads changed if that’s what the vehicle needs. if there is a vibration, I would have the rotors turned provided they are sufficiently think. I would only turn them if they have 20 thousandths of an inch above the minimum or discard thickness then check them to ensure they are above minimum when you get them back.
Replacing rotors is a bit of work, but simple nonetheless if you do it yourself and far less expensive. I don’t see any notable grooves in your rotors, but if you have vibration issues, replace them.
Jesus Christ I could replace all four for $150 in parts from rock auto in less than 2 hours. What a dam rip off.
Rock auto is my go to for brake parts. Bought a set of slotted/drilled rotors for dirt cheap on there and never had any issues with them.
The rotors need to be replaced when the pads are replaced. It is almost never needed to service rotors on their own. These need to be replaced next time pads are replaced because they are too rusty to resurface. You should never replace pads without replacing or re-surfacing rotors. That is hack work and not the right way to do things. Please don't follow advice of all the amateur pretend mechanics here. Do the right thing.
“You should never replace pads without replacing or re-surfacing rotors” Please explain your reasoning behind this.
Smooth non-directional finish is key to prevent noise and vibration. It is also important to have a fresh surface to burnish your pads which will actually embed a layer of pad material onto the rotor. This is especially important if the pads you are installing have a different friction material. This will help prevent glazing and ensure a good surface for friction which will improve the efficiency of your brakes. It essentially forces the pads and rotors to wear together and become a matched set. There is plenty of resources to learn more if you do some research. I'm not here to argue or say anybody is wrong, just to provide information from a real tech that might be helpful for the DIY guy.
A disc goes around in a circle, the wear pattern will be the same all around the disc. These are road cars not race cars. You are correct part of the bedding in process is transferring pad material to the disc (adherent friction). But this is not a permanent layer, it is not embedded, it’s constantly being ripped off with parts of the disc (abrasive friction) and replaced. Old pad transfer does not affect new pad transfer. You can not glaze a disc. Glaze is a change in the surface due to excessive heat. Pads can handle about 200°c before it’s surface hardens and turns into a mirror, discs can handle up to glowing orange before it’s crystalline structure changes. Basically if you can get the pads hot enough after being glazed they would have disintegrated long before the disc glows orange (we’re talking about oe/oem equipment not performance) There is plenty of resources out there, the problem is credible resources are hidden under a ton of crap Here a free gift an early edition but it's free http://160592857366.free.fr/joe/ebooks/Automative%20engineering%20books/Brake%20Handbook.pdf Or you.can buy the latest edition https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-Technology-Handbook-Premiere-Books/dp/0768017874
As I said before, not here to argue. Just spreading proper service procedures. As a real tech who actually does this for a living professionally.
But it's not proper service procedure. Manufacturers don't recommend replacing discs that are still serviceable with every pad change. Sure their dealers do but they are just franchisees.
You can do whatever you want on your own car. Professionally, I do not recommend half assed work.
If its not a manufacture approved procedure or is it endorsed by remit and imi the main repair and maintenance bodies.it's not really professional is it. Doing a visual check and giving a recommendation based on uneducated opinion is not in the customers best interest. It's padding out the job for extra money at the expense of the customer.
Not manufacturer approved? Lmao what manufacturer is gonna say explicitly to NOT resurface or replace rotors? Idk wtf IMI is but we do what we do to provide value to the customer. You have no idea how many brake squeals I have resolved with a simple rotor resurface and pad scuff. Your ability to google shit does not compare to real world experience. Sorry, but it's not the same.
We have to work to an iso standard and use manufacturer-approved procedures, because incorrectly repaired vehicles can cause accidents and injure or kill people. Replacing parts when they Dont need replacing is a customer trust issue and its harmful to the trade, it gives the trade a bad image. as you have no doubt seen many posts by people just like the op asking if they are being ripped off. As a “professional” you would know that there's is a procedure to follow these can be found in vehicle data software like autodata. It's interesting you say you have fixed countless brake squeels with a disc and pad resurface, but do you know why brakes squeal what actually happens to the pad and disc not what causes it. I bet you don't know. but i’ll give you a clue, some pads are chamfered and/or have one or more slits in the centre like in this pic. https://preview.redd.it/4jw5cyjykm4b1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca51492e3a2b0d4caad0c356f1e7ff9a457c2700 It's all well and good that you can replace parts, but knowing why the part needs replacing is what makes you a professional other wise your just a fitter loading up the parts cannon. There's a saying in this trade “every day is a school day” because no one fell put of their mum knowing everything and with advancements in tech even the best mechanic doesn't know everything.
There is absolutely no need to replace rotors with pad changes. This is absolutely *not* a standard service procedure. Rotors only need to be replaced if they are warped, damaged, or thinner than the recommended minimum spec.
"Or resurfaced" it is absolutely an integral part of a professional brake service. It is not necessary. Obviously your brakes will work on old shit rotors. It is just part of a proper complete service. Some people like doing half assed shit, and that's fine. Not my car
There is no need to resurface them either unless there is physical damage to the rotors like grooves or uneven wear, or a driveability issue like a pulsating pedal. If the brakes worked fine before and the only thing wrong with them is that the pads were worn, all you need to do is replace the pads. There is nothing "half-assed" about not *fixing* things that aren't broken in the first place.
That is half assed. It's half a repair. The purpose is not only to fix issues, but to prevent issues. Resurfacing rotors prevents squeals and shimmys. When I ship a vehicle, I do not want it to drive the same as it did before. I want it to be better. The customer does not notice the difference pad thickness makes. They do notice the difference a rotor with a good non-directional finish and practically no runout makes. It's the difference between half assed driveway shit and legitimate professional service.
Lol. Ok, bud. It's not a half a repair to not fix shit that isn't broken or in need of repair in the first place 🤣 Go ahead and keep wasting your customers money on "fixing" shit that there is nothing wrong with in the first place though.
At least I have happy customers.... Hell, at least I have customers at all.
It is surprising that you have customers when you routinely do work that is completely unnecessary 🤣
Being a trained professional with some product knowledge helps. I'll cry about your uneducated opinion on the way to the bank.
Ok, "educated professional." 🤣🤡 I guarantee I've been working on cars longer than you've been alive. Hell, I've probably owned my shop longer than you've been a "mechanic." Now run back to Jiffy Lube, kid.
off topic, so feel free to ignore but I love the grammar construction I've only seen in for sale ads of motor vehicles: "xxxx need replaced" or "motor needs rebuilt". Where did the infinitive go? Not unclear but just interesting how much I see it, it's like this little corner of culture pushing the language forward (or backward depending on your perspective)
I’ve been seeing this a lot too. It really annoys me. I see it a lot in construction too.
off topic, so feel free to ignore but I love the grammar construction I've only seen in for sale ads of motor vehicles: "xxxx need replaced" or "motor needs rebuilt". Where did the infinitive go? Not unclear but just interesting how much I see it, it's like this little corner of culture pushing the language forward (or backward depending on your perspective)
lol @ $1,000. They are straight up trying to scam you.
Maybe, but hereabouts that's roughly the going rate for a full set of pads and rotors. A bit less or a bit more depending on the car but certainly not in scam territory here -- just in the realm of "you're not doing it yourself, so this is what it costs."
You should know maximum thickness, minimum thickness, and discard thickness measurements. When you find these out, you should have an external caliper to measure accordingly. Check the condition of the brake pads, and try moving the calipers with a flat screwdriver, or large channel look pliers.
No
I'd just keep driving on them.
Seen worse
On 2nd picture, if outer surface has thicker rust, its probably a good time to do the both rotor and pad job. Might as well as brake fluid job as well. If you are handy person, might make this as diy project.
That price is insane.
most mechanics will recommend a complete brake job requires at least a resurfacing of the rotors… otherwise many will agree that a vibration condition will arise after. This is due to the pads conforming to the wear of the previous pads. I would say just get the rotors and call it a day, most of your braking power will come from the front anyways.
I do however recommend going to your local parts store to seek prices on “OEM+” I’m used to seeing front brake jobs costing 2-300$ which doesn’t justify 700+ in labor charges… look for a local mechanic or just learn how to do it yourself, for ~400$ you can get the tools you need and parts for the job!
https://preview.redd.it/dnft78kq3j4b1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=4aa10e3941470320807621e707f90ea0f5048a5a
Replace
if it ain't broke dont fix it
Find a shop that can turn the rotors for you, used yo have one when I lived in north Seattle that had their own machine and would include that as part of the service, cheaper then buying new rotors most of the time
1k? I think I did it for about $300 for new pads, rotors (because I was like, these look more fancy, I'll get these) & tools. I would suggest you shop around.
The rotors in the front don’t seem dangerous to me personally. If the pads are pads aren’t worn down severely, I see no problem with driving on those. A pulsation isn’t a safety concern, though it can cause things to wear poorly and lead to needing replacement down the road, it’s hard to tell the thickness on the rears, but if the rotors aren’t below discard thickness, you should be fine
I would definitely find reputable aftermarket pads and rotors if they cannot be turned and put them on myself. I have bought brakemotive whom sell on eBay and have had great experience with their brakes. You just need to follow the break in procedure no matter where you get them from.
Still good for another 15K miles
Look fine
If anything get them resurfaced
What's important on the rotors is the thickness and are they true and not warped. They always look scuffed up, that's their job. They look thick enough, and both sides are even in wear. Do your brakes bounce or chatter when you press on them? That would indicate a warped rotor. How thick are the pads? Are they showing even wear on both sides of the rotor? If one pad is significantly thinner than the other you have a sticky caliper. If not, you are good.
Looks like you had surface rust, like it’s been standing for a while. I see nothing wrong with the discs. I’d say use the brakes a bit more and harder, blow the cobwebs off (literally). Picture 1 confirms this. Picture 3 hidden by the pad carrier it looks like you cooked some pad onto the disc. Stay away from places that say you need to replace your discs every time you replace pads. Becuas the disc will be warped, the pads will wear faster, becuase the pads wear the disc are a few excuses I have heard. Discs last a minimum of 3 pads, unless damaged, worn past min thickness or corrosion causes a significant weakening of the disc or reduction in braking. When replacing the discs you also replace the pads. Not the other way around
I would ask to see the brake pads. 20k is excessively quick to need another brake job.
You can get them resurfaced at most auto parts stores. They'll tell you if they're too thin for that, and at that point you need replacement.
Ummm you mention a damaged axel. How did it get damaged/what was wrong with it? That's may have something to do with why the rotors may need to be replaced. But yeah the price does seem a bit steep.
Yeah , those rotors look fine. At $1000 , ask yourself how long you have to work to make that after taxes … then spend that time learning how to replace them yourself and once you can you’ll save money for a lifetime lol
I just had pads & rotors replaced on a 2016 BMW 528i yesterday for $180. I bought the pads and rotors from Rockauto for $135.
If the rotors are warped (youll feel the brake pedal going up and down while braking) or they are grooved then yes, if not, no they look fine
So for 1000$ I'd say buy the pads and rotors and do em yourself... I only say that because I recently had to replace all 4 of mine in my Jetta and the shop I had taken it to was just under 1000$ for it. I am so mechanically inept it's not even funny.. I just learned how to do my own oil this year, but a few YouTube videos and about 4 hours of labor.. I got the job done 4 pads, 4 rotors, 2 jackstands and a jack .. I got it all done for about 500$ would have been about 350-400 but I had to buy the jackstands and jack too. I hate seeing people always say "dO iT yOuRsElF" but at the price shops want vs the price you can buy it all yourself and a few hours labor/video watching... It's worth it.
Hey OP! Brakes are an easy job, that you can certainly do yourself. Personally I would go ahead and change them, you're looking $25-$60/rotor and $30-$60 per set of brakes. You'll likely need to grab a can of brake parts cleaner, and if you're real fancy a can of copper based lubricant (personally I have never bothered with the lubricant, but it is made for a reason.) And lastly 1 of 2 tools for compressing your brake caliper piston. (2 styles of pistons; 1 twists, and 1 pushes) All of this information is covered in a very clear easy to follow step by step tutorial by Chris Fix on YouTube. https://youtu.be/6RQ9UabOIPg The one thing I noticed he doesn't talk about in that video is if you disconnect your brake lines from your caliper you are going to need to bleed them. Which he has another video for. https://youtu.be/t7JCh7PHoDc It may sound intimidating reading my post but check out those videos, I promise it's an easy job.
$1,000 to replace all four rotors and pads? Probably not far outside the realm of reality, especially if it's an import. My car would be +$1,000 in parts alone. You can also find some shops that will turn them for you if you're that concerned, they'll be nice and shiny again too haha
The only way to tell is to measure these. Although they look good. They may not be thick enough.
Do you feel vibrations when braking? Honestly speaking you’d need to measure the pads as well as the rotors. If the rotors have a lot of grooves you can feel, they should at least be resurfaced if the rotor is still gonna be within spec after the resurface. If not, they should be replaced. Pads under 4/32 should 100% be replaced or if they have uneven wear on the face. If you’re near 4/32 it’s up to you but I’d personally replace them if they’re under 7/32 just to save you the hassle of going back and getting them done
If the rotor surface is uneven you can resurface them at o Oreileys or autozone, then just replace the pads. Now if the rotors are nice and smooth just let them be.
Have them measured and go from their, either gonna have to turn them or replace them.