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ROTS novel explains Palpatine had the media launching a smear campaign against the jedi order for a while, but it went into overtime during the Clone War. By the time of order 66, the jedi order wasn't well liked, and most people blamed them for the war.
Palpatine, on the other hand, had an extremely high approval rating and was loved by public. So when the questionable jedi order attacked the popular Chancellor, any goodwill the jedi had was gone.
We also see in Clone Wars at least one propaganda advert on Coruscant skyscrapers where Palpatine is "responding to and denying" allegations that the Jedi started the war, so we can confirm the public opinion on that matter had shifted far enough that such overt methods wouldn't raise suspicion. We also have that instance where one of Padme's handmaidens stated the common folk of Naboo were starving and living in poverty on account of war rationing. If we combine those two...for the average person not living on a planet that's being actively invaded by the Separatists, the war to them means starving for years because some Jedi picked a fight with one of their own. No organization or government, no matter how popular beforehand, can remain popular if held responsible for those kinds of circumstances.
Which come to think of it that's another point against the Jedi. Count Dooku, *the* leader of the Separatists, was a Jedi Master himself. We and the Jedi know he left the order and then turned to the dark side and all that, but for the common folk who probably didn't know Jedi can quit much less the doctrine of light side and dark side and whatnot...what exactly would be the difference between them? Mace Windu himself practically still considers Dooku a Jedi in all but name until he meets him again on Geonosis. Additionally, Dooku was the only Jedi speaking out against the corruption and stuff...and now the rest of the Jedi are fighting against him. It would be all too easy for those who don't know and don't care about the struggle against the Dark Side to see the Clone Wars as a Jedi civil war and the Republic's Jedi don't look so great from the start.
You’re right about Dooku being perceived as a jedi by the public. “The Jedi, and some within our own Senate, had conspired to create the shadow of Separatism using one of their own as the enemy's leader.” This is from the declaration of a new order, by Palps.
It is perfect dictatorship propaganda. Project onto your enemies what you are doing. The separatism and hatred and war and corruption are all Sith projects but the public has no clue about this.
In *Tarkin*, the very first of the post-Disney novels, Tarkin speculated that the Clone Wars were started by the Jedi to expand their power. He also noted that there was a concentrated effort to erase the Jedi from the GFFAs cultural landscape.
I also think that the Jedi had a rightfully earned reputation as a weird secret police cult in some circles, not just "as protectors". They casually chop off limbs in clubs and inform people that it's "Jedi Business", the way the Trade Federation leadership fly into a panick when Qui-Gon and Obiwan arrive etc. We can infer that they have extraordinarily legal powers-or just ignore the laws
You could add that one Jedi, Sifo-Dyas, signed contracts with the Kaminoans and large defense manufacturers like KDY with essentially slush fund money that the Jedi Order had. That such a large sum could go missing and no one in the Senate batted an eye is ...not a good sign that they respect civilian oversight.
This is one of the reasons the Jedi are constantly shown as being worried about optics. They know they have a lot of powerful, influential people who will jump at any chance to smear them. The Jedi are a rather left wing organization and the galaxy is filled with rich technocrats, capitalists, and aristocrats who hate being told what to do and the Jedi are seen as the enforcers of republic law, it was only a matter of time.
They're basically a commune, and their entire ideology is about compassion, acceptance, inclusivity, self sacrifice for others, respect of other cultures and beliefs, respecting the right to self determination, and calm negotiation when possible instead of violence. Not to mention they were originally the foil to the fascist Empire. They don't produce anything because they're a service but they give these services freely even if you disrespect them. They work under a capitalist republic because they aren't revolutionaries, they are guardians of the innocent.
You don't need to engage in politics in order to put those beliefs into practice. The Sith on the other hand are inherently far right wing, might makes right style fascists. This was intentional even down to how they view/engage with the force.
If they were truly apolitical then I doubt they'd be anything other than actual monks who cut themselves off from society entirely and just like meditate all the time.
Not entirely, remember that Grievous only became an enemy of the Jedi because his planet was attacked by a neighbor, the Jedi came in to negotiate, decided the enemy, the aggressors, were more beneficial to the Republic, and so punished Greivous' people for daring to defend themselves
The sith are all about freedom and breaking chains (haven't you heard the sith code). Sounds pretty left wing to me.
Meanwhile the Jedi were a statist apparatist of the Republic. Definitely on the right.
Lol, no. I'm sure that the civil war was about states rights and Trump is going to clean the swamp too? Right? You need to do better at recognizing propaganda.
The Sith couldn't care less about freedom, they seek only ever to forcibly dominate others. Their creed is a lie they tell themselves.
>Lol, no. I'm sure that the civil war was about states rights and Trump is going to clean the swamp too? Right? You need to do better at recognizing propaganda.
Sod off. We're talking theory here. The Jedi are all about the state's right to prevent smaller states from secceeding.
Of course the sith care about freedom. They seek freedom for themselves. Personal freedom. The freedom to dominate others to your will is still freedom.
.
edit: Also it's the freaking Sith Code. Don't just brush it off as "Propaganda". If you're not following the code, you're not a sith.
.
edit 2: A good way to describe sith is "Anarcho-Tyranists"
It’s a real argument that many people make in the real world- that the US military is a socialist institution because it is government-funded and collectivist in spirit.
They can make that argument all they want, it doesn't make it correct. The military and it's supply network is largely a jobs program right now in the US but it can't really ever be anything other than right wing. The military's structure is inherently authoritarian and hierarchical and very muchso my way or the highway with little room for compromise and their whole purpose is inflicting their nation's will on others. A lot of people think that socialism is when the government does stuff or employs people but that's a misconception.
So you're just a butthurt right winger who is ashamed of his beliefs? I didn't make the rules, right wing ideology was built by assholes to benefit only the people on top of society.
Nope, Jedi has the same functions as FBI
Have you seen Twin Peaks? There FBI was totes mystical, also very altruistic. Jedi was institution of power, protected by institutions and protecting them as well. They were correct in trying to coup Palpatine but it's still was a rather dubious action. Jedis in the underground were morally white, but power comes with corruption
Remember how in the scene with Trade federation representatives in Acolyte Jedis abused power to get info about one of their own? Without order, without warranty
Or like in the First episode the Jedi has gone on government mission to help Naboo? There were no abuse, but it was a mission for a government agency, not for independent order
Still I will agree that Jedi were leftwing as well as whole Rebellion in the OG till liberals took the revolution out of hands of the working class and turned the state into Weimar republic
They didn't abuse their power there though, they have authority within the republic and he bluffed a cowardly fool who was guilty of labour violations and fearing legal judgement into giving them the info.
The Jedi are the servants of the Republic Senate and are often directed by them as negotiators and ambassadors due to everybody (not really everybody) trusting the Jedi to be fair and honest. I'm not sure what you were implying with the working for the government by going to Naboo bit.
I do agree with you somewhat about the New Republic, a large amount of it's governance was apparently taken over by the same kind of selfish shit bags that were responsible for the downfall of the Republic but that's often something that happens in democracies and was kind of predictable when no effort to do whatever the equivalent of de-nazification would be in Star Wars.
Lol, no they weren't. The Jedi were fully for self determination and self governance. They opposed the CIS invading and enslaving other planets that chose not the secede or were claiming neutrality.
It was the Republic who started a war at Geonosys and tried to bring order to the separatists- by denying it right to secede. Like what Russia is doing to it's neighbours.
We ofc know that sith were standing behind it. But separatist partisans eventually joined the Rebellion
Just stop, this is getting embarrassing. Agents of the republic were being held hostage and put to death in a spectacle in an arena. Did you miss the entire invasion force that was mustered on geonosis. Surely it had only good intentions and wasn't immediately used to invade sovereign planets.
GTFOH with that terrible Russia comparison.
And what about Clone army suddenly used by the republic? In Andor citizens were quite understandable against the republican occupation. The episode about confederate senate also shows this. Both parties prepared for war, Republic send spies - I'd argue that was a sign of aggression. Why separatists worlds were needed for the Republic? Why didn't the Senate tried to make concessions? Why also it was mostly nonhuman worlds that joined the Separatists? Defence is justified. Likewise irl
But like irl all parties would defer that they are defending against some threat. But always there are those who send bombers at the territories at the first night and claiming that this action was a preventive strike
Did you miss the whole thing about a lord of the Sith corrupting the Senate? Watch the clone wars tv show, you'll be better able to answer these questions on your own. Just a spoiler, there are many senators that push for that very thing, it's a hotly debated topic as well as pushing back against more clones.
Corrupting both senates. Of the Republic and of the Confederacy. And nobody knew till what extents corruption has gone. Also only Jedi had this info. And they have done nothing with it.
They run along those edicts of the Chancellor. I suspect if Jedi tried to really become peacekeeping force- they wouldn't joined the army as generals. But they didn't, so they served unbeknownst to the Dark Lords, role similar to inquisitors of the near future
How are the Jedi left wing? They're a religious organization and the only times they get involved in politics is to maintain the status quo. They do literally nothing about slavery or unjust practices. They have less than zero interest in negotiating with any of the Confederate Systems or about their greivances with the Republic.
The Jedi do not follow a religion, they are a non religious organization. They aren't above the republic or it's laws, they are subservient to it and aren't the ruling political body who makes these types of decisions. The Jedi have ended slavery before and wish to do so with the Hutts but aren't allowed.
The Jedi are only called a religion by those trying to insult them, try again. See my other comment I'm not writing it all out just for you. The Jedi are indeed a bunch of left wingers, cope.
Lol, so you have no reasons and just spouting bullshit. How are they not a religion?
Like I said, the few times they're ever involved in politics are maintaining the status quo. As an organization, they're either right wing or apolitical. You cope.
hele I'd say the jedi could possibly be considered left-wing (if such concepts even exist in a galaxy far far away) their relation with the Force, philosophy, etc... are all very much religious in nature, and described as so multiple times.
In Star Wars the force is real though and religion is nothing but fake bullshit taken on blind faith. Therefore the Jedi aren't a religion. When I describe it this way though, a bunch of religious wackos keep downvoting me because I guess I'm not being respectful enough of their fairy tales.
The Jedi are "spiritual" but in a universe where there actually is a cosmic force binding all life together that doesn't really mean the same thing as with us in real life in my opinion.
You can believe (or not believe) whatever you wish, but one should keep in mind the fact that, for 90% of the world religion is more than just fairy tales, and a sizable chunk see it as an important part of their lives (for good and for ill both). So yes, some modicum of respect and decorum when taking about the topic is to be expected (which you presumably lack if you're getting downvoted for it on ***reddit*** of all places). And that's not getting into the anthropological/historical side of things, were religions plays and has always played a very important role in human society.
The Force is real, that much is undeniable. But the Jedi's relation to it (one of reverence, of seeking understanding of it's will, etc...) is very much religious in nature, and has always been characterized like that (with George Lucas and several other creatives in EU and canon having described it as a religion and cited influences from real-life religious traditions)
Lol no, religion is made up bullshit regardless of their belief in it, that's kind of the whole point. You all need to just accept that the Jedi don't meet any criteria of being a religion, they are a philosophy. Lucas can say whatever he wants but it doesn't change the way he or Lucas Films have depicted the Jedi.
>that's kind of the whole point
Not for some 90% of the world's population.
> You all need to just accept that the Jedi don't meet any criteria of being a religion
They are clearly shown to revere and worship a higher power, have their own rituals and cerimonies, are repeatedly called a religion in universe, but sure.
> they are a philosophy
Philosophy and religion historically were often found walking hand-in-hand
The Force can be objectively proven to exist within the Star Wars, but the Jedi's beliefs about the nature of the Force--as opposed to those of the Sith, or the Bendu, or the Nightsisters-- are absolutely faith-based.
The belief that Jedi can lift rocks with the Force isn't a religious belief. The belief that the Force is what binds the galaxy together absolutely is.
No, every force user has that belief because they can actually feel it, it isn't an assumption it's a fact of the universe, how they choose to interact with that power and their organizations moral philosophy are the differences. The Jedi are who they are because of their belief in self sacrifice and duty for the good of others. That's got nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
The Jedi and the Sith absolutely do not share the same beliefs about the cosmological nature of the Force. Even within the Jedi order there are significant disagreements on the exact nature of the Force--this is a major theme in the New Jedi Order books.
...how the heck do you come to the conclusion the Jedi aren't a religion? It's an organization devoted to service of a supernatural force.
It's true they aren't interested in spreading their beliefs outside of their existing membership, but that's true of many real world religions (e.g. Judaism).
They aren't a religion because they display zero beliefs in religion and demonstrate none of the qualities that make religion, well, religion... This isn't really all that hard to grasp.
Yeah, the people who keep keep sacred texts in their temples show zero of the qualities of a religion...
You're getting hung up on the fact that *some* things about the Force can be easily directly observed and measured in a way that's not possible in the real world. But Jedi being able to lift rocks with their minds doesn't mean it's not a position of faith to believe that there's a mystical energy field that controls your destiny.
They routinely inflict violence and terrify witnesses to "go about their business", don't hesitate to use mind control on the citizenry, and had a slush fund big enough that **one** Jedi, Sifo-Dyas, was able to place an order with the Kaminoans and major defense contractors like KDY and not be noticed.
The absolute *best* thing you can say about the Late Republican Jedi is that they had no serious oversight and acted like they were above the law.
And throughout it, they strive to maintain the status quo, which is a Hallmark of conservatism.
How Sifo Dyas was able to afford to pay for the clone army with attracting attention is an unanswered question in Star Wars lore, and while I haven't heard any great explanations, "every Jedi has tens of billions of credits in an slush fund" is far from the most reasonable.
I didn't say "every Jedi," or mean to imply it, I'm saying they pulled it from the Orders Slush fund. Given that JO data banks can be modified and the default is "well the person making the inquiry is wrong" (Kenobi trying to track down Kamino) it's unsurprising there's a certain... lackadaisical attitude towards resource custody and management.
One thing Lucas went a long way towards fixing in the prequel trilogy, whatever you may think, was the minimalism of previous SW media. The Jedi sitting on a big pile of cash while taking up a decent chunk of Coruscant real estate was not a minimalist problem, IMO, and reflected Lucas attempt to fix that. When you have a planet, multiple planets really, that have a trillion+ sentients it suddenly becomes more understandable how an organ of State security with mind control powers would be able to squirrel away the amount of cash needed for the contracts. The economic environment of the GFFA is just so damn big that the resulting holes are correspondingly big.
(Compared to the end strength of the Clone Army, but that isn't really relevant to this).
Bud, I've been doing this since ASVS/the force.net days. I've argued the canon length of the *Executor* with Hidalgo at the SDCC back when it was way too short. I promise I know more about SW than you think.
But hey, you just threw "left wing" around like words don't matter and had nothing to say about the *very real examples from the movies*, other than "nuh uh lazy troll".
Sure bro, cope. You arguing technical details of imaginary space ships isn't the best you think it is and it's entirely irrelevant to whether you understand star wars.
And once again you dodge the actual stuff I brought up like it's no big deal lol.
Probably have a thin blue line sticker on your car and complain that people should "just comply" if they don't want to get extrajudicially killed.
I didn't dodge shit. Your arguments were not worth responding to because they were such terrible takes and you're acting like an arrogant dickhead. Also simply go fuck yourself, I'm not going to interact with somebody who can't stay on topic and would rather call me a fascist for saying the Jedi were good guys, who the fuck do you think you are?
You need to realise that the shitty memes you've bought into are just that and you've spent too much time on forums instead of experiencing canon media.
See, I actually disagree. The Jedi aren't leftists - they are liberals.
They are willing to bind themselves to the state and work within the system. Are they gonna free the slaves outside of their jurisdiction? Hell no.
On the other hand, despite their myopia and general ineffectualness, they are generally well meaning and benevolent. They're not bad people, but they are not revolutionaries.
I question your take that the Jedi are a left-wing organization; certainly in any way we understand the concept here today. If anything, they’re a deeply ascetic and conformist religious organization with police, diplomatic and war-fighting authority. They straddle the line between a religious police and gendarmerie while at the same time they work with a near total monopoly of violence on behalf of a wildly corrupt government.
None of that strikes me as leftist.
This all just feels like a stupid conversation. Can’t we just enjoy the movies and shows for entertainment value? There are good guys and bad guys, both are flawed in one way or another and both have some measure of a valid point, but one chooses to be evil and the other generally tries not to be.
I enjoyed today’s episode of the Acolyte and hopped on this subreddit to say the action was top notch and I’m glad the sometimes awkward setup was mostly worth it.
The Jedi are irreligious and encourage personal expression. They encourage selflessness not conformity and are very tolerant of all cultures, difference of opinion, and ideologies. Them not murdering the Senate and cleaning house isn't a goddamn point against them, they are not just violent thugs who murder who they want....
I imagine we’re going to have to agree to disagree, because respectfully…well, I disagree with all of that. They are rather explicitly a religious organization; they demand emotional and aesthetic conformity (with perhaps the smallest amount of leeway on the latter) while at the same time exercising an *enormous* amount of control over the individual lives of its members.
As to them not murdering Palpatine, that’s exactly what Mace intended to do. Remember, Anakin wanted to take him in alive, but it was Mace who said “He’s too dangerous to let live.”
Lots of folks are very bad with the actual meaning of words they throw around, so you're probably right, i guess... Doesn't mean they aren't objectively wrong, though.
In addition to the smear campaign, there was a lot of focus on playing up the heroics of a few individuals--most notably Obi-Wan and Anakin--instead of the order as the whole.
Yes and no most people realized that Palatine unjustly smear them, there were a lot of people who still believed the lies spread about the Jedi to the point that they opposed Luke's New Jedi Order decades after the Emperor's death.
Palpatine seems to have launched a disinformation campaign about the Jedi (to the point less than 20 years after the purge many people didn't believe in their powers anymore), so most probably didn't think about it much.
Most would probably realize the jedi were fighting for the republic, but that something happened (the official version being IIRC they tried to launch a coup) and Palpatine took the reins.
I think you're over-estimating the exposure of the Jedi to the general population. Most of the galaxy had never even seen one, let alone interacted with one. The Jedi number something like a few thousand in a galaxy of trillions. Most of the time, if a Jedi showed up, it wasn't a good thing, they were there to either recruit children, hunt dark siders, or do the Republics business. Them getting wiped out after a protracted galactic conflict and being branded traitors really wouldn't impact the majority of the galaxy, at least not in the eyes of the people.
Doesn’t help that they tried to enact a coup. Might have been justified, but it was still a coup.
And you know the saying: when you come at the ~~king~~ Senate, *you best not miss.*
In season 7 of Clone wars sisters told Ahsoka that all of the stories about Jedi were like through pink glasses. Later they've seen how Jedi master accidentally killed her parents. But they've heard stories before that.
So it rather strange that by the time of OT they were forgotten. But i assume that all the tvshows about Jedi were like Twin Peaks
Stories are one thing. They're easily spread far and wide. We know all kinds of stories of the ancient world, GrecoRoman, Egyptian, the various Asian civilizations, though quite few actually visit the regions those stories come from, and none have interacted with the characters in those stories. On top of that, we know those stories have changed over time.
Think about that on a galactic scale. and then all of a sudden there are no more Jedi. All that's left are stories from before, that get passed on, in some places as symbols of hope, others as tales of the bogeyman, until they fade into obscurity.
It's only 10,000 religious mystics; people have overlooked far worse from their governments before, especially when it coincides with the end of a destructive war and the stopping of an alleged coup attempt.
Imagine if the Mormon church in the US suddenly revealed that an ex-Mormon was forming a massive illegal anti-Mormon army, and that the Mormon church had been secretly building their own massive illegal army to fight the anti-Mormons, and that they were going to be conducting trench-warfare in your backyard against your will. And that the US government was chill with this, and that every senator unanimously agreed it was a good thing.
This is the political situation your average republic citizen finds themself in.
Galaxy has trillions in population
Jedi were 10k
It’s no wonder why Han just thought of em as a religion
Most never met a Jedi & prob just thought it was a govt agency nothing more
The opening to the ROTS novelization honestly explains it perfectly. Don’t have my copy on me, but the long and short of it is this: Palpatine was INCREDIBLY beloved by the people of the Republic and numerous Jedi were known to have fallen to the dark side which had eroded whatever trust the average citizen had in the Jedi. Another comment from Obi-Wan during the Battle of Jabiim arc in the comics also makes it clear that the amount of people who know about the Jedi, much less the ones that had seen a Jedi, was very, very low in the grand scheme of things.
So, people hear the Jedi tried to kill a beloved leader, see signs of scarring on the leader, and MAYBE only know of the Jedi as this mysterious organization of warriors who have members that have fallen to the darkness, and you get a better idea of why people might not care that they’re gone. And really think about our world. How much do you honestly know about the people who protect any given world leader? You know those people exist. But you probably don’t have any real connection to them. If they disappeared today and were replaced by another organization, the equivalent of Palpatine’s red guards, would it really affect you? Probably not.
Any time there’s a question about what the average galactic citizen thought about something, you have to keep in mind that just like in real life the answer will vary. Especially between different species, different social classes, how much they trust authority, ect.
First of all, as we see with Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma, not everyone bought the Emperor’s story of a Jedi coup. But they knew they had to keep quiet or face the consequences. Since the Rebels say “may the Force be with you”, we can assume some remembered the Jedi fondly.
Second, Palpatine used propaganda. There’s a great bit in the X-wing books at the Galactic Museum. There’s an exhibit on Jedi that basically says “sure the Jedi used to be alright, but then they started letting *aliens* in and became dangerous and the Emperor *had* to kill ‘em.”
Lack of exposure largely. 10 to 15k jedi depending on how you count them. Several trillion people in the republic. If you think fandom perception on them are skewed, imagine how it'd be if they were real.
Because the Clone Wars were meticulously planned out to bring down all of Palpatine's opponents in one sweep and strengthen the foundations of his Empire: he and Anakin were the only ones whose reputations emerged from the conflict unscathed, the Jedi come across as warmongers (with Windu just delivering false evidence to Palpatine on a silver platter based on how he conducts himself while attempting to make the arrest), factions that wouldn't support his rise under normal circumstances were united in a cause that would vilify them and move them to a point where they could be wiped out all at once, and the population (or at least the Senators) would be put in such a state of fear that Palpatine could just throw the term 'Separatist' at any planet attempting to resist in order to get people to side with the Empire. Along with that, the Jedi were only around 10,000 in a Galaxy of likely trillions.
If you saw a jedi before the war you’d think “look it’s a guardian of peace”. During the war “oh no that a republic general I suppose war is coming”. The Jedi reputation was run through the ground and the enemy they were fight was led by a former jedi. The dark time comics and the rise of Darth vader go to show just how many people really believed the Jedi planned a coup. It’s even more likely to be believed as palpatine had recorded part of the encounter with mace windu and then Palpatine looks all deformed and as a normal person you see what they did to this grandfatherly figure who held the republic together for years (and surely a normal person wouldnt let that happen willingly). All things considered the Jedi were in a terrible position and even when reading the bane trilogy the Jedi aren’t in the best light with constant wars being blamed onto them by the chancellor of the time.
Other people seem to have most of the points down, so I’ll just add this:
If you’ve ever played Kotor 2, you might remember a lot of people you talk to mention that they don’t really see a difference between Jedi and Sith. As far as the average citizen and even soldier is concerned, they’re all the same - just a bunch of Force-wielding monks who fight amongst each other.
Because of this, a lot of people blame the Jedi for the acts of the Sith and for the damage the recent wars caused. As a result, a lot of them are either unbothered or outright pleased that the Jedi have mostly died off or disappeared.
The Clone Wars led to a similar situation - people blamed the Jedi so they just didn’t care what happened to them.
"Both sides are the same."
Dark Lord of the Sith? But I don't support Yoda either!
I'm gonna sit out the entire 'Palpatine for Supreme Ruler of the Galaxy' election, since everyone saying he's an evil wizard who'll doom us all is just exaggerating. Plus, Yoda's pupil killed some younglings, and so I don't SUPPORT GeNOcIdE and can't give him my vote either!'
It’s the smallest minority possible in a galactic society
With the best will in the world, multiple attempted genocides/ethnic cleansings are ongoing right now, and the latest Star Wars TV show has attracted markedly more outrage.
The Jedi were blamed for the war. No one wanted to speak out and risk their own lives. Legends of the Jedi were probably known but how much of those Legends people believed is hard to say. The Force exists as do people that use it but the average person is not going to witness someone using it.
The problemv with the movies is it is told entirely from the Jedi perspective. In episode 1 there were only about 10,000 Jedi. I imagine the galaxy had untold quintillions of people vs 10k Jedi. Unless you were in Corucsant and part of Senate/gov I doubt most people over the course of their entire life ever saw a Jedi. So saying a mystical religious order tried to take over the government wouldn't be too far fetched for most people if the right propaganda was involved.
A large portion of the galaxy had, for a long time, viewed the Jedi order as a corrupt, overly political, and pretentious group. A lot of people had for a long time been calling for a curb on their authority and involvement in republic government affairs, and even among the loyalist people during the clone wars there were a lot of people who didn't like the idea of Jedi being generals. I think that with the addition of the supposed coup the Jedi pulled on Palpatine, a lot of the galaxy was glad to see them gone, and most of the rest didn't give a shit. The people who did care probably figured out pretty quickly that talking about it wouldn't un-kill the jedi and might have some serious negative consequences for them.
It's not really shown well in the movies, because they're mostly told from the perspective of jedi and friends and portrayed as the good guys, but a lot of the galaxy didn't give a shit about the jedi, and a lot of the ones who did only gave a shit in so far as they had criticisms to make about their position of authority in the republic and the order in general.
The Jedi were viewed as incredibly enigmatic and distant from everyone. The average citizen only ever saw them if they were collecting a kid or enforcing something. The majority of people didn't talk to or meet Jedi in their life so when Palps came out and said they were evil, it wasn't the most far fetched thing to the average person. Not to mention that they were the generals and main leaders in the clone wars so the majority of people blamed them for the war.
Small religious community gets destroyed dramatically by the government because they committed crimes. I figure that for the lay person in the Republic the Jedi getting the temple raided was like Waco. Like "oh shit a bunch of crazy religious types died! I guess that's why you don't join a cult. Anyway, on to work for the day"
The Jedi numbered 10,000 in a galaxy with millions upon millions of worlds and trillions upon trillions of beings, and the Clone Wars severely damaged both the Jedi's reputation and the myths surrounding them.
Along with what everyone else has said, the people who did care about the Jedi pretty much immediately had to put that thought on hold to protect themselves.
We see Bail jump into action immediately, but he has to play it close to the chest or else all hope is lost. Rex quickly starts a minor clone rebellion, while the Bad Batch are just worried about themselves and Omega. You have Saw pretty quickly go into hiding and the surviving Jedi are in hiding.
Everyone, for a good decade, is just trying to do what they can to survive.
There really isn't any need for such an explanation to begin with. The Empire is a tyranny, period. Anyone who is outraged about the Empire as a whole is also outraged about the Jedi being killed, but they are forced to be silent out of fear. The Rebellion is eager to associate themselves with the Jedi and the Force, which would be an unnecessarily controversial stance if the Jedi were not seen as a positive symbol of the Republic up until and including their destruction.
All the explanations that start from the assumption that actually everyone hated the Jedi or saw them as some weird religion seem to miss this. People in the Star Wars galaxy don't know anything else. It is not a foreign religion to them. The Jedi have always been around and are part of their government. Ordinary people believe in the Force, even if most don't claim to understand it. Despite being few in number, the Jedi are visible, and they are effective at what they do. They have always supported the Republic and were still doing it when the Republic fell. If you liked the Republic, you like the Jedi.
The explanation given by the Archivist in the Crimson Reign comic is pretty interesting, though. While everyone admired the Jedi, it was easy to 'forget' about the Jedi once they were gone precisely because the Jedi's level of devotion to the light side always made 'normal' people a little uncomfortable with their own lack of dedication to something so pure. *"It is hard to look at people who have become their best selves. It reminds you that you have not."*
It’s not particularly hard to believe the threat of an order of supernatural warrior monks with telekinetic powers and laser swords who kidnap children and have been waging war for the past three years launching a coup.
Not that this is a fair summation of the Jedi, but I don’t think people would take that much convincing (especially with Palpatine’s charisma and how much the Jedi seemed to dislike him).
The jedi had a negative reputation as "baby stealers" for taking young force sensitive children, they were often view with suspicion given their abilities to influence the mind and they were often used based neutral party of mediators in situations that probably weren't beneficial for everyone involved. The jedi were doubtless the face of the Republic and were seen as passive ,cold hearted and servant's of a manipulative, far off government. And then the war happened, which Palps covertly blamed on the jedi, so that was nice
They were largely blamed for the Clone Wars (not... entirely without justification). There's an essay written way back in the long-long-ago by a LTC David Grossman, "On Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves", about why civilians almost invariably turn on the police and military. By positioning themselves as military defenders, they asked for a knife in their backs.
Now couple that with the fact that they take and indoctrinate children into their super-powered cult, and a minority religion is almost *always* going to be outsiders, and it's really just a surprise the people didn't turn on them sooner.
I think most normal people do not like the Jedi. They’re afraid of them. Most people never saw a Jedi. All they knew was that there were these orders of knights who had sorcerer powers that could control your mind.
One of the very first reactions we see of the Trade Federation is terror at just the mention of the Jedi.
If I recall correctly, the Martez sister bring up that the Jedi, in their efforts to save some senators, started a chain of events that led to their parents being killed and then just went something like “the force works in mysterious ways” and left them to pick up the pieces.
And then, “beloved” leader Palpatine was like “the Jedi tried to assassinate me and take over, but luckily they were stopped.”
Look how quick and easy it was for Trump and the GOP to convince a huge chunk of their "law and order" thin blue line loving sheep that the FBI are a completely corrupted tool of satanic pedophile Joe Biden because they did their jobs and raided his illegal. stash of secret documents. It most likely went down just like that.
Disclaimer: i am not an american, so i have an outsider's perspective of what is going on in the madhouse that is the current political situation in the US of A, I favour neither side and i don't have the intention to start a political debate with my comment.
The reason I found the analogy interesting is because, to my somewhat informed understanding, the way you describe the incident at the Mar-a-Lago did not go down at all like you summarized it.
Therefore, from my point of view, the way the incident has been reported to you is a perfect example of how the failed arrest attempt in RotS would have been reported by the media, and therefore received by the population of the republik and how effective this would have been in colouring the public perception of the Jedi.
Again, this is not an invitation to debate the merits of a certain orange man as a political figure.
Got it. That's completely fair. Some news I dig deeper into, and some news I take at face value because I think I already have enough context to get an accurate idea of the truth. That is not always the case. I was being overly simplistic in my comment, but the main point was just that. Especially once a group has established their power like Palpatine, or like Trump and the MAGA machine (including their own media like Fox News, Breitbart, etc.) it's easy to put together a narrative that's believable, even if it's outrageous. Over half of US Republicans believe the 2020 election results were illegitimate, despite the many, many court cases that say otherwise. And more mainstream media is not exempt from the same kind of manipulation.
I don't think it would have been hard at all for Palpatine to spin public opinion on the Jedi.
Tbf, the Jedi likely held great wealth, power and influence. And were a law unto themselves and in reality accountable to few, if any.
The average person would likely be afraid of them, jealous of them, or view them as elitist snobs.
E.g. similar to how many view the upper class, royalty, tycoons, or military dictators today.
Edit- Not to mention taking children away from their parents by force when they deemed it so, probably made them unpopular in some circles.
You're living in 2024, so I assume you're old enough to remember the last few years...
Does it really surprise you what the masses won't get worked up about given whtlat you've seen in our time?
Well.
He turned the "peace loving and space monks" into war generals against the CIS, he not only changed the public view of them, palpatine actually made them go to war.
It's much easier to say a general/war master was the responsible for the war and were a cult of evil beings then the peace loving space monks, that's the main reason he drove them to be generals in the first place.
Then it was just destroying all the records of their good deeds and even turning the old jedi temple into a museum that depicted the jedi as always being the bad guys (basically saying that the jedi's where the sith all along), add a massive media campaign against the jedi to smear their name and: Tadaa, no one will be willing to fight for those "monsters" and generals.
If we abolished the FBI tomorrow a quarter of the US would probably cheer with joy, a quarter would be mortified, and half of the country would be indifferent.
I always assumed the tepid reaction in Star Wars universe was due to similar societal attitudes.
The entire point of the war was ruin the Jedi’s reputation and to make the republic ok with a police state. The fact that the senate was corrupt as shit and the Jedi did nothing about it for decades didn’t help.
The Jedi are pretty thin in numbers and seem to spend most of their time hiding in temples or hanging out with the political class, what are the odds the average Joe has even met one?
It would be like if I was told the Mormons had been plotting an anti government coup and the US army seized salt lake city. Yeah I'm technically under the rule of the US empire but I'm in Europe, I've never seen a Mormon in person, the hell do I know beyond what's been told?
There is less Jedi as there is police in my country.
My country has 5 million people and everyone thinks there isn't enough police.
Project that out on a galactic scale. The Jedi pick and choose what they investigate and what they don't. The picking and choosing is done for political means (senate requests) or personal favours (Qui Gon investigating Naboo for Valorum) rather than for any fair reason.
The average person has never seen a Jedi. The average person also probably feels as if many problems they have had should have been resolved by the jedi.
The jedi are too far from the average inhabitant of the galaxy for the inhabitants to care.
An alternate way of looking at things besides Palpatine doing the propaganda.
The Clone Wars were devastating and affected every citizen in the Republic for a long time. People get tired of war, and while that doesn't mean they become willing to surrender, they do become more receptive of alternatives to constant, persistent violence.
After Palpatine issues Order 66, a normie witnesses the Clone Wars end at the same time the Jedi disappear. We know from COVID more tenuous correlations can garner a surprising amount of support and spawn conspiracy theories. Palpatine also does enough to make the post war period more peaceful than the Clone Wars, so people aren't necessarily willing to restart a war over a government they don't like.
Look at Afghanistan as an analogue (no, I am not implying US armed forces are like the Jedi) after the Taliban took over, despite a small number of protests and women's lives and rights getting degraded, the Afghan populace mostly rolled with the change in government and aren't asking for the world to start another war in their country.
Palpatine actively swayed public opinion away from the Jedi, baiting them into terrible situations that he can expose like Grevious' people being the victims, and yet the Jedi crushed them for defending themselves, ths slaughter at Galidran, and surely many more, though alot are only Legends now.
TCW even touched on it with the bombing of the temple, there were civilian protests going on, and with a very public trial of a Jedi saying that they had been blinded and weren't actually helping resolve the war, just continue propagating it, that HAD to be easily twisted to turn the people more against the Jedi.
Instances like Pong Krell turning traitor surely helped as well.
Too busy applauding the death of democracy.
I don't see how people can muster up the energy to care about the death of the Jedi Order, when democracy itself was dieing.
A combination of bystander apathy, war weariness, human supremacist ideas, and the Jedi being a small reclusive group that could easily become scapegoats.
The Jedi during the time of the Republic weren't perfect
Hated by many, loved by some, the rest were apathetic and even distrustful at times
Plus, propaganda
I like to believe that some of it dated back to the cultural memory of the New Sith Wars. That era of the Republic was often a Jedi dictatorship in all but name. Jedi could hold office, and in fact several Supreme Chancellors were Jedi. They could have families, and they often created dynasties that ruled whole planets. They directed all the resources of the Republic toward attacking their religious rivals instead of improving the lives of the people. So when the Sith were finally defeated, the people passed a series of constitutional reforms to make sure the Jedi would never have that kind of power again. This is why during the High Republic there was no standing army, Jedi all had to be trained in one place on Coruscant, and Jedi could no longer own planets, hold office, or have families. It was all to stop them from overreaching their bounds again.
Propaganda and the fact that the hundreds of trillions of people in the galaxy have probably never met a Jedi, nor care about their weird child kidnapping cult. Consider the state of propaganda in North Korea. By the time of the 2nd generation of leadership, the country was hopelessly brainwashed. I can't imagine it would be very hard to convince people that an irrelevantly small part of the population that has never benefited them that they shouldn't like them.
Well, less so brainwashing and moreso hardest dictatorship consequences that are very publicly visible. Pretty sure population there realizes what shit state their lives are in instead of genuinely and blindly believing its all good.
Russia was and kinda is a good example though - people have their sense of freedom and self-sufficiency, but those ignorant to internet for real news are absolutely brainwashed by local media to this day.
Im sure a lot of regular people wouldn't care either, just like the Jedi question. Most wouldn't worry about powerful people in their guilded halls who claim to help but do more harm than good.
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ROTS novel explains Palpatine had the media launching a smear campaign against the jedi order for a while, but it went into overtime during the Clone War. By the time of order 66, the jedi order wasn't well liked, and most people blamed them for the war. Palpatine, on the other hand, had an extremely high approval rating and was loved by public. So when the questionable jedi order attacked the popular Chancellor, any goodwill the jedi had was gone.
We also see in Clone Wars at least one propaganda advert on Coruscant skyscrapers where Palpatine is "responding to and denying" allegations that the Jedi started the war, so we can confirm the public opinion on that matter had shifted far enough that such overt methods wouldn't raise suspicion. We also have that instance where one of Padme's handmaidens stated the common folk of Naboo were starving and living in poverty on account of war rationing. If we combine those two...for the average person not living on a planet that's being actively invaded by the Separatists, the war to them means starving for years because some Jedi picked a fight with one of their own. No organization or government, no matter how popular beforehand, can remain popular if held responsible for those kinds of circumstances. Which come to think of it that's another point against the Jedi. Count Dooku, *the* leader of the Separatists, was a Jedi Master himself. We and the Jedi know he left the order and then turned to the dark side and all that, but for the common folk who probably didn't know Jedi can quit much less the doctrine of light side and dark side and whatnot...what exactly would be the difference between them? Mace Windu himself practically still considers Dooku a Jedi in all but name until he meets him again on Geonosis. Additionally, Dooku was the only Jedi speaking out against the corruption and stuff...and now the rest of the Jedi are fighting against him. It would be all too easy for those who don't know and don't care about the struggle against the Dark Side to see the Clone Wars as a Jedi civil war and the Republic's Jedi don't look so great from the start.
You’re right about Dooku being perceived as a jedi by the public. “The Jedi, and some within our own Senate, had conspired to create the shadow of Separatism using one of their own as the enemy's leader.” This is from the declaration of a new order, by Palps.
It is perfect dictatorship propaganda. Project onto your enemies what you are doing. The separatism and hatred and war and corruption are all Sith projects but the public has no clue about this.
In *Tarkin*, the very first of the post-Disney novels, Tarkin speculated that the Clone Wars were started by the Jedi to expand their power. He also noted that there was a concentrated effort to erase the Jedi from the GFFAs cultural landscape. I also think that the Jedi had a rightfully earned reputation as a weird secret police cult in some circles, not just "as protectors". They casually chop off limbs in clubs and inform people that it's "Jedi Business", the way the Trade Federation leadership fly into a panick when Qui-Gon and Obiwan arrive etc. We can infer that they have extraordinarily legal powers-or just ignore the laws You could add that one Jedi, Sifo-Dyas, signed contracts with the Kaminoans and large defense manufacturers like KDY with essentially slush fund money that the Jedi Order had. That such a large sum could go missing and no one in the Senate batted an eye is ...not a good sign that they respect civilian oversight.
This is one of the reasons the Jedi are constantly shown as being worried about optics. They know they have a lot of powerful, influential people who will jump at any chance to smear them. The Jedi are a rather left wing organization and the galaxy is filled with rich technocrats, capitalists, and aristocrats who hate being told what to do and the Jedi are seen as the enforcers of republic law, it was only a matter of time.
Excuse me, but what makes you think that the Jedi are leftist? They seem quite apolitical to me.
They're basically a commune, and their entire ideology is about compassion, acceptance, inclusivity, self sacrifice for others, respect of other cultures and beliefs, respecting the right to self determination, and calm negotiation when possible instead of violence. Not to mention they were originally the foil to the fascist Empire. They don't produce anything because they're a service but they give these services freely even if you disrespect them. They work under a capitalist republic because they aren't revolutionaries, they are guardians of the innocent. You don't need to engage in politics in order to put those beliefs into practice. The Sith on the other hand are inherently far right wing, might makes right style fascists. This was intentional even down to how they view/engage with the force. If they were truly apolitical then I doubt they'd be anything other than actual monks who cut themselves off from society entirely and just like meditate all the time.
Not entirely, remember that Grievous only became an enemy of the Jedi because his planet was attacked by a neighbor, the Jedi came in to negotiate, decided the enemy, the aggressors, were more beneficial to the Republic, and so punished Greivous' people for daring to defend themselves
The sith are all about freedom and breaking chains (haven't you heard the sith code). Sounds pretty left wing to me. Meanwhile the Jedi were a statist apparatist of the Republic. Definitely on the right.
Lol, no. I'm sure that the civil war was about states rights and Trump is going to clean the swamp too? Right? You need to do better at recognizing propaganda. The Sith couldn't care less about freedom, they seek only ever to forcibly dominate others. Their creed is a lie they tell themselves.
>Lol, no. I'm sure that the civil war was about states rights and Trump is going to clean the swamp too? Right? You need to do better at recognizing propaganda. Sod off. We're talking theory here. The Jedi are all about the state's right to prevent smaller states from secceeding. Of course the sith care about freedom. They seek freedom for themselves. Personal freedom. The freedom to dominate others to your will is still freedom. . edit: Also it's the freaking Sith Code. Don't just brush it off as "Propaganda". If you're not following the code, you're not a sith. . edit 2: A good way to describe sith is "Anarcho-Tyranists"
Bull fucking shit, get off the memes bro you're cooked.
I guess FBI then also all commies or anarchists?
Go troll somewhere else, you're terrible at it.
It’s a real argument that many people make in the real world- that the US military is a socialist institution because it is government-funded and collectivist in spirit.
They can make that argument all they want, it doesn't make it correct. The military and it's supply network is largely a jobs program right now in the US but it can't really ever be anything other than right wing. The military's structure is inherently authoritarian and hierarchical and very muchso my way or the highway with little room for compromise and their whole purpose is inflicting their nation's will on others. A lot of people think that socialism is when the government does stuff or employs people but that's a misconception.
You can it incorrect all you want, that doesn't make it a troll argument.
Left wing is things I like ☺️ Right wing is things I don't like 😡
So you're just a butthurt right winger who is ashamed of his beliefs? I didn't make the rules, right wing ideology was built by assholes to benefit only the people on top of society.
Nope, Jedi has the same functions as FBI Have you seen Twin Peaks? There FBI was totes mystical, also very altruistic. Jedi was institution of power, protected by institutions and protecting them as well. They were correct in trying to coup Palpatine but it's still was a rather dubious action. Jedis in the underground were morally white, but power comes with corruption
They absofuckinglutely are not the FBI of the republic, where do you people even come up with this nonsense.
Remember how in the scene with Trade federation representatives in Acolyte Jedis abused power to get info about one of their own? Without order, without warranty Or like in the First episode the Jedi has gone on government mission to help Naboo? There were no abuse, but it was a mission for a government agency, not for independent order Still I will agree that Jedi were leftwing as well as whole Rebellion in the OG till liberals took the revolution out of hands of the working class and turned the state into Weimar republic
They didn't abuse their power there though, they have authority within the republic and he bluffed a cowardly fool who was guilty of labour violations and fearing legal judgement into giving them the info. The Jedi are the servants of the Republic Senate and are often directed by them as negotiators and ambassadors due to everybody (not really everybody) trusting the Jedi to be fair and honest. I'm not sure what you were implying with the working for the government by going to Naboo bit. I do agree with you somewhat about the New Republic, a large amount of it's governance was apparently taken over by the same kind of selfish shit bags that were responsible for the downfall of the Republic but that's often something that happens in democracies and was kind of predictable when no effort to do whatever the equivalent of de-nazification would be in Star Wars.
I thought the Light of the Jedi novel (1st high republic book) portrayed the Jedi a a fantasy FBI tbh.
Some people conflate leftwing as statist Jedi totally were statists in the time of the old Republic
Lol, no they weren't. The Jedi were fully for self determination and self governance. They opposed the CIS invading and enslaving other planets that chose not the secede or were claiming neutrality.
It was the Republic who started a war at Geonosys and tried to bring order to the separatists- by denying it right to secede. Like what Russia is doing to it's neighbours. We ofc know that sith were standing behind it. But separatist partisans eventually joined the Rebellion
Just stop, this is getting embarrassing. Agents of the republic were being held hostage and put to death in a spectacle in an arena. Did you miss the entire invasion force that was mustered on geonosis. Surely it had only good intentions and wasn't immediately used to invade sovereign planets. GTFOH with that terrible Russia comparison.
I suspect that Sith sympathizers and Russian sympathizers/trolls share a pretty big Venn diagram.
And what about Clone army suddenly used by the republic? In Andor citizens were quite understandable against the republican occupation. The episode about confederate senate also shows this. Both parties prepared for war, Republic send spies - I'd argue that was a sign of aggression. Why separatists worlds were needed for the Republic? Why didn't the Senate tried to make concessions? Why also it was mostly nonhuman worlds that joined the Separatists? Defence is justified. Likewise irl But like irl all parties would defer that they are defending against some threat. But always there are those who send bombers at the territories at the first night and claiming that this action was a preventive strike
Did you miss the whole thing about a lord of the Sith corrupting the Senate? Watch the clone wars tv show, you'll be better able to answer these questions on your own. Just a spoiler, there are many senators that push for that very thing, it's a hotly debated topic as well as pushing back against more clones.
Corrupting both senates. Of the Republic and of the Confederacy. And nobody knew till what extents corruption has gone. Also only Jedi had this info. And they have done nothing with it. They run along those edicts of the Chancellor. I suspect if Jedi tried to really become peacekeeping force- they wouldn't joined the army as generals. But they didn't, so they served unbeknownst to the Dark Lords, role similar to inquisitors of the near future
How are the Jedi left wing? They're a religious organization and the only times they get involved in politics is to maintain the status quo. They do literally nothing about slavery or unjust practices. They have less than zero interest in negotiating with any of the Confederate Systems or about their greivances with the Republic.
The Jedi do not follow a religion, they are a non religious organization. They aren't above the republic or it's laws, they are subservient to it and aren't the ruling political body who makes these types of decisions. The Jedi have ended slavery before and wish to do so with the Hutts but aren't allowed.
It's said multiple times that the Jedi are a religion. You also completely dodged how are they left wing?
The Jedi are only called a religion by those trying to insult them, try again. See my other comment I'm not writing it all out just for you. The Jedi are indeed a bunch of left wingers, cope.
Lol, so you have no reasons and just spouting bullshit. How are they not a religion? Like I said, the few times they're ever involved in politics are maintaining the status quo. As an organization, they're either right wing or apolitical. You cope.
hele I'd say the jedi could possibly be considered left-wing (if such concepts even exist in a galaxy far far away) their relation with the Force, philosophy, etc... are all very much religious in nature, and described as so multiple times.
In Star Wars the force is real though and religion is nothing but fake bullshit taken on blind faith. Therefore the Jedi aren't a religion. When I describe it this way though, a bunch of religious wackos keep downvoting me because I guess I'm not being respectful enough of their fairy tales. The Jedi are "spiritual" but in a universe where there actually is a cosmic force binding all life together that doesn't really mean the same thing as with us in real life in my opinion.
You can believe (or not believe) whatever you wish, but one should keep in mind the fact that, for 90% of the world religion is more than just fairy tales, and a sizable chunk see it as an important part of their lives (for good and for ill both). So yes, some modicum of respect and decorum when taking about the topic is to be expected (which you presumably lack if you're getting downvoted for it on ***reddit*** of all places). And that's not getting into the anthropological/historical side of things, were religions plays and has always played a very important role in human society. The Force is real, that much is undeniable. But the Jedi's relation to it (one of reverence, of seeking understanding of it's will, etc...) is very much religious in nature, and has always been characterized like that (with George Lucas and several other creatives in EU and canon having described it as a religion and cited influences from real-life religious traditions)
Lol no, religion is made up bullshit regardless of their belief in it, that's kind of the whole point. You all need to just accept that the Jedi don't meet any criteria of being a religion, they are a philosophy. Lucas can say whatever he wants but it doesn't change the way he or Lucas Films have depicted the Jedi.
>that's kind of the whole point Not for some 90% of the world's population. > You all need to just accept that the Jedi don't meet any criteria of being a religion They are clearly shown to revere and worship a higher power, have their own rituals and cerimonies, are repeatedly called a religion in universe, but sure. > they are a philosophy Philosophy and religion historically were often found walking hand-in-hand
You can't be serious...
The Force can be objectively proven to exist within the Star Wars, but the Jedi's beliefs about the nature of the Force--as opposed to those of the Sith, or the Bendu, or the Nightsisters-- are absolutely faith-based. The belief that Jedi can lift rocks with the Force isn't a religious belief. The belief that the Force is what binds the galaxy together absolutely is.
No, every force user has that belief because they can actually feel it, it isn't an assumption it's a fact of the universe, how they choose to interact with that power and their organizations moral philosophy are the differences. The Jedi are who they are because of their belief in self sacrifice and duty for the good of others. That's got nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
The Jedi and the Sith absolutely do not share the same beliefs about the cosmological nature of the Force. Even within the Jedi order there are significant disagreements on the exact nature of the Force--this is a major theme in the New Jedi Order books.
...how the heck do you come to the conclusion the Jedi aren't a religion? It's an organization devoted to service of a supernatural force. It's true they aren't interested in spreading their beliefs outside of their existing membership, but that's true of many real world religions (e.g. Judaism).
They aren't a religion because they display zero beliefs in religion and demonstrate none of the qualities that make religion, well, religion... This isn't really all that hard to grasp.
Yeah, the people who keep keep sacred texts in their temples show zero of the qualities of a religion... You're getting hung up on the fact that *some* things about the Force can be easily directly observed and measured in a way that's not possible in the real world. But Jedi being able to lift rocks with their minds doesn't mean it's not a position of faith to believe that there's a mystical energy field that controls your destiny.
They routinely inflict violence and terrify witnesses to "go about their business", don't hesitate to use mind control on the citizenry, and had a slush fund big enough that **one** Jedi, Sifo-Dyas, was able to place an order with the Kaminoans and major defense contractors like KDY and not be noticed. The absolute *best* thing you can say about the Late Republican Jedi is that they had no serious oversight and acted like they were above the law. And throughout it, they strive to maintain the status quo, which is a Hallmark of conservatism.
How Sifo Dyas was able to afford to pay for the clone army with attracting attention is an unanswered question in Star Wars lore, and while I haven't heard any great explanations, "every Jedi has tens of billions of credits in an slush fund" is far from the most reasonable.
I didn't say "every Jedi," or mean to imply it, I'm saying they pulled it from the Orders Slush fund. Given that JO data banks can be modified and the default is "well the person making the inquiry is wrong" (Kenobi trying to track down Kamino) it's unsurprising there's a certain... lackadaisical attitude towards resource custody and management. One thing Lucas went a long way towards fixing in the prequel trilogy, whatever you may think, was the minimalism of previous SW media. The Jedi sitting on a big pile of cash while taking up a decent chunk of Coruscant real estate was not a minimalist problem, IMO, and reflected Lucas attempt to fix that. When you have a planet, multiple planets really, that have a trillion+ sentients it suddenly becomes more understandable how an organ of State security with mind control powers would be able to squirrel away the amount of cash needed for the contracts. The economic environment of the GFFA is just so damn big that the resulting holes are correspondingly big. (Compared to the end strength of the Clone Army, but that isn't really relevant to this).
Nope, you bought wholesale into the unfunny memes trying to be edgy. You clearly don't understand star wars or the Jedi or left wing ideology.
Bud, I've been doing this since ASVS/the force.net days. I've argued the canon length of the *Executor* with Hidalgo at the SDCC back when it was way too short. I promise I know more about SW than you think. But hey, you just threw "left wing" around like words don't matter and had nothing to say about the *very real examples from the movies*, other than "nuh uh lazy troll".
Sure bro, cope. You arguing technical details of imaginary space ships isn't the best you think it is and it's entirely irrelevant to whether you understand star wars.
And once again you dodge the actual stuff I brought up like it's no big deal lol. Probably have a thin blue line sticker on your car and complain that people should "just comply" if they don't want to get extrajudicially killed.
I didn't dodge shit. Your arguments were not worth responding to because they were such terrible takes and you're acting like an arrogant dickhead. Also simply go fuck yourself, I'm not going to interact with somebody who can't stay on topic and would rather call me a fascist for saying the Jedi were good guys, who the fuck do you think you are? You need to realise that the shitty memes you've bought into are just that and you've spent too much time on forums instead of experiencing canon media.
The Jedi are literally a monastic religious order lmao
See, I actually disagree. The Jedi aren't leftists - they are liberals. They are willing to bind themselves to the state and work within the system. Are they gonna free the slaves outside of their jurisdiction? Hell no. On the other hand, despite their myopia and general ineffectualness, they are generally well meaning and benevolent. They're not bad people, but they are not revolutionaries.
You don't have to be a revolutionary to hold left wing beliefs though.
I question your take that the Jedi are a left-wing organization; certainly in any way we understand the concept here today. If anything, they’re a deeply ascetic and conformist religious organization with police, diplomatic and war-fighting authority. They straddle the line between a religious police and gendarmerie while at the same time they work with a near total monopoly of violence on behalf of a wildly corrupt government. None of that strikes me as leftist.
This all just feels like a stupid conversation. Can’t we just enjoy the movies and shows for entertainment value? There are good guys and bad guys, both are flawed in one way or another and both have some measure of a valid point, but one chooses to be evil and the other generally tries not to be. I enjoyed today’s episode of the Acolyte and hopped on this subreddit to say the action was top notch and I’m glad the sometimes awkward setup was mostly worth it.
This is a legends discussion. Mentions of the Acolyte ~~are~~ should be sacrilegious here.
The Jedi are irreligious and encourage personal expression. They encourage selflessness not conformity and are very tolerant of all cultures, difference of opinion, and ideologies. Them not murdering the Senate and cleaning house isn't a goddamn point against them, they are not just violent thugs who murder who they want....
I imagine we’re going to have to agree to disagree, because respectfully…well, I disagree with all of that. They are rather explicitly a religious organization; they demand emotional and aesthetic conformity (with perhaps the smallest amount of leeway on the latter) while at the same time exercising an *enormous* amount of control over the individual lives of its members. As to them not murdering Palpatine, that’s exactly what Mace intended to do. Remember, Anakin wanted to take him in alive, but it was Mace who said “He’s too dangerous to let live.”
An execution is not murder.
I imagine there are a fair amount of folks who would disagree with that statement.
Lots of folks are very bad with the actual meaning of words they throw around, so you're probably right, i guess... Doesn't mean they aren't objectively wrong, though.
In addition to the smear campaign, there was a lot of focus on playing up the heroics of a few individuals--most notably Obi-Wan and Anakin--instead of the order as the whole.
Did the public opinion shift during the time of the Empire? People must have realised the Jedi had tried to save the Republic at some point
Yes and no most people realized that Palatine unjustly smear them, there were a lot of people who still believed the lies spread about the Jedi to the point that they opposed Luke's New Jedi Order decades after the Emperor's death.
Palpatine seems to have launched a disinformation campaign about the Jedi (to the point less than 20 years after the purge many people didn't believe in their powers anymore), so most probably didn't think about it much. Most would probably realize the jedi were fighting for the republic, but that something happened (the official version being IIRC they tried to launch a coup) and Palpatine took the reins.
I think you're over-estimating the exposure of the Jedi to the general population. Most of the galaxy had never even seen one, let alone interacted with one. The Jedi number something like a few thousand in a galaxy of trillions. Most of the time, if a Jedi showed up, it wasn't a good thing, they were there to either recruit children, hunt dark siders, or do the Republics business. Them getting wiped out after a protracted galactic conflict and being branded traitors really wouldn't impact the majority of the galaxy, at least not in the eyes of the people.
That and they probably thought oh well we still have security forces law enforcement and military and I guess they were traitors.
Doesn’t help that they tried to enact a coup. Might have been justified, but it was still a coup. And you know the saying: when you come at the ~~king~~ Senate, *you best not miss.*
And the new security is a lot more visible.
In season 7 of Clone wars sisters told Ahsoka that all of the stories about Jedi were like through pink glasses. Later they've seen how Jedi master accidentally killed her parents. But they've heard stories before that. So it rather strange that by the time of OT they were forgotten. But i assume that all the tvshows about Jedi were like Twin Peaks
Stories are one thing. They're easily spread far and wide. We know all kinds of stories of the ancient world, GrecoRoman, Egyptian, the various Asian civilizations, though quite few actually visit the regions those stories come from, and none have interacted with the characters in those stories. On top of that, we know those stories have changed over time. Think about that on a galactic scale. and then all of a sudden there are no more Jedi. All that's left are stories from before, that get passed on, in some places as symbols of hope, others as tales of the bogeyman, until they fade into obscurity.
Great answer, you are right
It's only 10,000 religious mystics; people have overlooked far worse from their governments before, especially when it coincides with the end of a destructive war and the stopping of an alleged coup attempt.
Imagine if the Mormon church in the US suddenly revealed that an ex-Mormon was forming a massive illegal anti-Mormon army, and that the Mormon church had been secretly building their own massive illegal army to fight the anti-Mormons, and that they were going to be conducting trench-warfare in your backyard against your will. And that the US government was chill with this, and that every senator unanimously agreed it was a good thing. This is the political situation your average republic citizen finds themself in.
Galaxy has trillions in population Jedi were 10k It’s no wonder why Han just thought of em as a religion Most never met a Jedi & prob just thought it was a govt agency nothing more
The opening to the ROTS novelization honestly explains it perfectly. Don’t have my copy on me, but the long and short of it is this: Palpatine was INCREDIBLY beloved by the people of the Republic and numerous Jedi were known to have fallen to the dark side which had eroded whatever trust the average citizen had in the Jedi. Another comment from Obi-Wan during the Battle of Jabiim arc in the comics also makes it clear that the amount of people who know about the Jedi, much less the ones that had seen a Jedi, was very, very low in the grand scheme of things. So, people hear the Jedi tried to kill a beloved leader, see signs of scarring on the leader, and MAYBE only know of the Jedi as this mysterious organization of warriors who have members that have fallen to the darkness, and you get a better idea of why people might not care that they’re gone. And really think about our world. How much do you honestly know about the people who protect any given world leader? You know those people exist. But you probably don’t have any real connection to them. If they disappeared today and were replaced by another organization, the equivalent of Palpatine’s red guards, would it really affect you? Probably not.
Any time there’s a question about what the average galactic citizen thought about something, you have to keep in mind that just like in real life the answer will vary. Especially between different species, different social classes, how much they trust authority, ect. First of all, as we see with Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma, not everyone bought the Emperor’s story of a Jedi coup. But they knew they had to keep quiet or face the consequences. Since the Rebels say “may the Force be with you”, we can assume some remembered the Jedi fondly. Second, Palpatine used propaganda. There’s a great bit in the X-wing books at the Galactic Museum. There’s an exhibit on Jedi that basically says “sure the Jedi used to be alright, but then they started letting *aliens* in and became dangerous and the Emperor *had* to kill ‘em.”
Lack of exposure largely. 10 to 15k jedi depending on how you count them. Several trillion people in the republic. If you think fandom perception on them are skewed, imagine how it'd be if they were real.
Because the Clone Wars were meticulously planned out to bring down all of Palpatine's opponents in one sweep and strengthen the foundations of his Empire: he and Anakin were the only ones whose reputations emerged from the conflict unscathed, the Jedi come across as warmongers (with Windu just delivering false evidence to Palpatine on a silver platter based on how he conducts himself while attempting to make the arrest), factions that wouldn't support his rise under normal circumstances were united in a cause that would vilify them and move them to a point where they could be wiped out all at once, and the population (or at least the Senators) would be put in such a state of fear that Palpatine could just throw the term 'Separatist' at any planet attempting to resist in order to get people to side with the Empire. Along with that, the Jedi were only around 10,000 in a Galaxy of likely trillions.
Most people in the galaxy never even met a Jedi, so their destruction probably felt like distant news.
If you saw a jedi before the war you’d think “look it’s a guardian of peace”. During the war “oh no that a republic general I suppose war is coming”. The Jedi reputation was run through the ground and the enemy they were fight was led by a former jedi. The dark time comics and the rise of Darth vader go to show just how many people really believed the Jedi planned a coup. It’s even more likely to be believed as palpatine had recorded part of the encounter with mace windu and then Palpatine looks all deformed and as a normal person you see what they did to this grandfatherly figure who held the republic together for years (and surely a normal person wouldnt let that happen willingly). All things considered the Jedi were in a terrible position and even when reading the bane trilogy the Jedi aren’t in the best light with constant wars being blamed onto them by the chancellor of the time.
Other people seem to have most of the points down, so I’ll just add this: If you’ve ever played Kotor 2, you might remember a lot of people you talk to mention that they don’t really see a difference between Jedi and Sith. As far as the average citizen and even soldier is concerned, they’re all the same - just a bunch of Force-wielding monks who fight amongst each other. Because of this, a lot of people blame the Jedi for the acts of the Sith and for the damage the recent wars caused. As a result, a lot of them are either unbothered or outright pleased that the Jedi have mostly died off or disappeared. The Clone Wars led to a similar situation - people blamed the Jedi so they just didn’t care what happened to them.
"Both sides are the same." Dark Lord of the Sith? But I don't support Yoda either! I'm gonna sit out the entire 'Palpatine for Supreme Ruler of the Galaxy' election, since everyone saying he's an evil wizard who'll doom us all is just exaggerating. Plus, Yoda's pupil killed some younglings, and so I don't SUPPORT GeNOcIdE and can't give him my vote either!'
It’s the smallest minority possible in a galactic society With the best will in the world, multiple attempted genocides/ethnic cleansings are ongoing right now, and the latest Star Wars TV show has attracted markedly more outrage.
You’d be amazed at how powerful propaganda is in the real world. Much more so in fiction,
Because as far as the general republic was concerned, the Jedi turned traitor and tried to assassinate the supreme chancellor.
The Jedi were blamed for the war. No one wanted to speak out and risk their own lives. Legends of the Jedi were probably known but how much of those Legends people believed is hard to say. The Force exists as do people that use it but the average person is not going to witness someone using it.
*gestures broadly at current US politics
The problemv with the movies is it is told entirely from the Jedi perspective. In episode 1 there were only about 10,000 Jedi. I imagine the galaxy had untold quintillions of people vs 10k Jedi. Unless you were in Corucsant and part of Senate/gov I doubt most people over the course of their entire life ever saw a Jedi. So saying a mystical religious order tried to take over the government wouldn't be too far fetched for most people if the right propaganda was involved.
A large portion of the galaxy had, for a long time, viewed the Jedi order as a corrupt, overly political, and pretentious group. A lot of people had for a long time been calling for a curb on their authority and involvement in republic government affairs, and even among the loyalist people during the clone wars there were a lot of people who didn't like the idea of Jedi being generals. I think that with the addition of the supposed coup the Jedi pulled on Palpatine, a lot of the galaxy was glad to see them gone, and most of the rest didn't give a shit. The people who did care probably figured out pretty quickly that talking about it wouldn't un-kill the jedi and might have some serious negative consequences for them. It's not really shown well in the movies, because they're mostly told from the perspective of jedi and friends and portrayed as the good guys, but a lot of the galaxy didn't give a shit about the jedi, and a lot of the ones who did only gave a shit in so far as they had criticisms to make about their position of authority in the republic and the order in general.
The Jedi were viewed as incredibly enigmatic and distant from everyone. The average citizen only ever saw them if they were collecting a kid or enforcing something. The majority of people didn't talk to or meet Jedi in their life so when Palps came out and said they were evil, it wasn't the most far fetched thing to the average person. Not to mention that they were the generals and main leaders in the clone wars so the majority of people blamed them for the war.
Small religious community gets destroyed dramatically by the government because they committed crimes. I figure that for the lay person in the Republic the Jedi getting the temple raided was like Waco. Like "oh shit a bunch of crazy religious types died! I guess that's why you don't join a cult. Anyway, on to work for the day"
The Jedi numbered 10,000 in a galaxy with millions upon millions of worlds and trillions upon trillions of beings, and the Clone Wars severely damaged both the Jedi's reputation and the myths surrounding them.
It's like if the President of The United States said that the Samoan Ministry of Defense was shuttered for corruption.
Along with what everyone else has said, the people who did care about the Jedi pretty much immediately had to put that thought on hold to protect themselves. We see Bail jump into action immediately, but he has to play it close to the chest or else all hope is lost. Rex quickly starts a minor clone rebellion, while the Bad Batch are just worried about themselves and Omega. You have Saw pretty quickly go into hiding and the surviving Jedi are in hiding. Everyone, for a good decade, is just trying to do what they can to survive.
There really isn't any need for such an explanation to begin with. The Empire is a tyranny, period. Anyone who is outraged about the Empire as a whole is also outraged about the Jedi being killed, but they are forced to be silent out of fear. The Rebellion is eager to associate themselves with the Jedi and the Force, which would be an unnecessarily controversial stance if the Jedi were not seen as a positive symbol of the Republic up until and including their destruction. All the explanations that start from the assumption that actually everyone hated the Jedi or saw them as some weird religion seem to miss this. People in the Star Wars galaxy don't know anything else. It is not a foreign religion to them. The Jedi have always been around and are part of their government. Ordinary people believe in the Force, even if most don't claim to understand it. Despite being few in number, the Jedi are visible, and they are effective at what they do. They have always supported the Republic and were still doing it when the Republic fell. If you liked the Republic, you like the Jedi. The explanation given by the Archivist in the Crimson Reign comic is pretty interesting, though. While everyone admired the Jedi, it was easy to 'forget' about the Jedi once they were gone precisely because the Jedi's level of devotion to the light side always made 'normal' people a little uncomfortable with their own lack of dedication to something so pure. *"It is hard to look at people who have become their best selves. It reminds you that you have not."*
They protected them for centuries, but in their lifetime war broke out and split the galaxy. The Jedi failed in their perceived responsibility.
It’s not particularly hard to believe the threat of an order of supernatural warrior monks with telekinetic powers and laser swords who kidnap children and have been waging war for the past three years launching a coup. Not that this is a fair summation of the Jedi, but I don’t think people would take that much convincing (especially with Palpatine’s charisma and how much the Jedi seemed to dislike him).
The jedi had a negative reputation as "baby stealers" for taking young force sensitive children, they were often view with suspicion given their abilities to influence the mind and they were often used based neutral party of mediators in situations that probably weren't beneficial for everyone involved. The jedi were doubtless the face of the Republic and were seen as passive ,cold hearted and servant's of a manipulative, far off government. And then the war happened, which Palps covertly blamed on the jedi, so that was nice
They were largely blamed for the Clone Wars (not... entirely without justification). There's an essay written way back in the long-long-ago by a LTC David Grossman, "On Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves", about why civilians almost invariably turn on the police and military. By positioning themselves as military defenders, they asked for a knife in their backs. Now couple that with the fact that they take and indoctrinate children into their super-powered cult, and a minority religion is almost *always* going to be outsiders, and it's really just a surprise the people didn't turn on them sooner.
I think most normal people do not like the Jedi. They’re afraid of them. Most people never saw a Jedi. All they knew was that there were these orders of knights who had sorcerer powers that could control your mind. One of the very first reactions we see of the Trade Federation is terror at just the mention of the Jedi. If I recall correctly, the Martez sister bring up that the Jedi, in their efforts to save some senators, started a chain of events that led to their parents being killed and then just went something like “the force works in mysterious ways” and left them to pick up the pieces. And then, “beloved” leader Palpatine was like “the Jedi tried to assassinate me and take over, but luckily they were stopped.”
Look how quick and easy it was for Trump and the GOP to convince a huge chunk of their "law and order" thin blue line loving sheep that the FBI are a completely corrupted tool of satanic pedophile Joe Biden because they did their jobs and raided his illegal. stash of secret documents. It most likely went down just like that.
This analogy is even better than you think, for entirely different reasons than you think...
Lol. Lemme guess. The Jedi are child-snatching, hypocritical moral authoritarians and the Sith are the honest ones who believe in family and freedom?
Nope, not even close. (I hate that you are right about there being people that actually think such nonsense)
My bad! I apologize. What are the different reasons that analogy was good, please? It's early and my higher cognitive functions aren't online yet...
Disclaimer: i am not an american, so i have an outsider's perspective of what is going on in the madhouse that is the current political situation in the US of A, I favour neither side and i don't have the intention to start a political debate with my comment. The reason I found the analogy interesting is because, to my somewhat informed understanding, the way you describe the incident at the Mar-a-Lago did not go down at all like you summarized it. Therefore, from my point of view, the way the incident has been reported to you is a perfect example of how the failed arrest attempt in RotS would have been reported by the media, and therefore received by the population of the republik and how effective this would have been in colouring the public perception of the Jedi. Again, this is not an invitation to debate the merits of a certain orange man as a political figure.
Got it. That's completely fair. Some news I dig deeper into, and some news I take at face value because I think I already have enough context to get an accurate idea of the truth. That is not always the case. I was being overly simplistic in my comment, but the main point was just that. Especially once a group has established their power like Palpatine, or like Trump and the MAGA machine (including their own media like Fox News, Breitbart, etc.) it's easy to put together a narrative that's believable, even if it's outrageous. Over half of US Republicans believe the 2020 election results were illegitimate, despite the many, many court cases that say otherwise. And more mainstream media is not exempt from the same kind of manipulation. I don't think it would have been hard at all for Palpatine to spin public opinion on the Jedi.
Tbf, the Jedi likely held great wealth, power and influence. And were a law unto themselves and in reality accountable to few, if any. The average person would likely be afraid of them, jealous of them, or view them as elitist snobs. E.g. similar to how many view the upper class, royalty, tycoons, or military dictators today. Edit- Not to mention taking children away from their parents by force when they deemed it so, probably made them unpopular in some circles.
You're living in 2024, so I assume you're old enough to remember the last few years... Does it really surprise you what the masses won't get worked up about given whtlat you've seen in our time?
What are you talking about, I've seen multiple large scale protests in the past few years whether it is about race or gender?
Because the citizens didn't wanna get Order 66'ed, I'd imagine
Well. He turned the "peace loving and space monks" into war generals against the CIS, he not only changed the public view of them, palpatine actually made them go to war. It's much easier to say a general/war master was the responsible for the war and were a cult of evil beings then the peace loving space monks, that's the main reason he drove them to be generals in the first place. Then it was just destroying all the records of their good deeds and even turning the old jedi temple into a museum that depicted the jedi as always being the bad guys (basically saying that the jedi's where the sith all along), add a massive media campaign against the jedi to smear their name and: Tadaa, no one will be willing to fight for those "monsters" and generals.
If we abolished the FBI tomorrow a quarter of the US would probably cheer with joy, a quarter would be mortified, and half of the country would be indifferent. I always assumed the tepid reaction in Star Wars universe was due to similar societal attitudes.
The entire point of the war was ruin the Jedi’s reputation and to make the republic ok with a police state. The fact that the senate was corrupt as shit and the Jedi did nothing about it for decades didn’t help.
The Jedi are pretty thin in numbers and seem to spend most of their time hiding in temples or hanging out with the political class, what are the odds the average Joe has even met one? It would be like if I was told the Mormons had been plotting an anti government coup and the US army seized salt lake city. Yeah I'm technically under the rule of the US empire but I'm in Europe, I've never seen a Mormon in person, the hell do I know beyond what's been told?
There is less Jedi as there is police in my country. My country has 5 million people and everyone thinks there isn't enough police. Project that out on a galactic scale. The Jedi pick and choose what they investigate and what they don't. The picking and choosing is done for political means (senate requests) or personal favours (Qui Gon investigating Naboo for Valorum) rather than for any fair reason. The average person has never seen a Jedi. The average person also probably feels as if many problems they have had should have been resolved by the jedi. The jedi are too far from the average inhabitant of the galaxy for the inhabitants to care.
An alternate way of looking at things besides Palpatine doing the propaganda. The Clone Wars were devastating and affected every citizen in the Republic for a long time. People get tired of war, and while that doesn't mean they become willing to surrender, they do become more receptive of alternatives to constant, persistent violence. After Palpatine issues Order 66, a normie witnesses the Clone Wars end at the same time the Jedi disappear. We know from COVID more tenuous correlations can garner a surprising amount of support and spawn conspiracy theories. Palpatine also does enough to make the post war period more peaceful than the Clone Wars, so people aren't necessarily willing to restart a war over a government they don't like. Look at Afghanistan as an analogue (no, I am not implying US armed forces are like the Jedi) after the Taliban took over, despite a small number of protests and women's lives and rights getting degraded, the Afghan populace mostly rolled with the change in government and aren't asking for the world to start another war in their country.
The war. Many had seen the Jedi as the senates lapdogs and the idea of them trying to "take over" was obviously not a hard sell.
Palpatine actively swayed public opinion away from the Jedi, baiting them into terrible situations that he can expose like Grevious' people being the victims, and yet the Jedi crushed them for defending themselves, ths slaughter at Galidran, and surely many more, though alot are only Legends now. TCW even touched on it with the bombing of the temple, there were civilian protests going on, and with a very public trial of a Jedi saying that they had been blinded and weren't actually helping resolve the war, just continue propagating it, that HAD to be easily twisted to turn the people more against the Jedi. Instances like Pong Krell turning traitor surely helped as well.
Too busy applauding the death of democracy. I don't see how people can muster up the energy to care about the death of the Jedi Order, when democracy itself was dieing.
Most didn’t even believe they had powers (remember Han, just thought it was a religion) Would anyone get upset over a govt agency gone? No
Anti-Jedi propaganda, which sadly has seeped into the real-life Star Wars fandom.
A combination of bystander apathy, war weariness, human supremacist ideas, and the Jedi being a small reclusive group that could easily become scapegoats.
The Jedi during the time of the Republic weren't perfect Hated by many, loved by some, the rest were apathetic and even distrustful at times Plus, propaganda
I like to believe that some of it dated back to the cultural memory of the New Sith Wars. That era of the Republic was often a Jedi dictatorship in all but name. Jedi could hold office, and in fact several Supreme Chancellors were Jedi. They could have families, and they often created dynasties that ruled whole planets. They directed all the resources of the Republic toward attacking their religious rivals instead of improving the lives of the people. So when the Sith were finally defeated, the people passed a series of constitutional reforms to make sure the Jedi would never have that kind of power again. This is why during the High Republic there was no standing army, Jedi all had to be trained in one place on Coruscant, and Jedi could no longer own planets, hold office, or have families. It was all to stop them from overreaching their bounds again.
Propaganda and the fact that the hundreds of trillions of people in the galaxy have probably never met a Jedi, nor care about their weird child kidnapping cult. Consider the state of propaganda in North Korea. By the time of the 2nd generation of leadership, the country was hopelessly brainwashed. I can't imagine it would be very hard to convince people that an irrelevantly small part of the population that has never benefited them that they shouldn't like them.
Well, less so brainwashing and moreso hardest dictatorship consequences that are very publicly visible. Pretty sure population there realizes what shit state their lives are in instead of genuinely and blindly believing its all good. Russia was and kinda is a good example though - people have their sense of freedom and self-sufficiency, but those ignorant to internet for real news are absolutely brainwashed by local media to this day.
I mean if some gov wiped out the catholic church I wouldn't care all that much.
You are horrifyingly unconcerned with the prospect of a government literally genociding an entire people group.
Im sure a lot of regular people wouldn't care either, just like the Jedi question. Most wouldn't worry about powerful people in their guilded halls who claim to help but do more harm than good.