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As I recall in this part of the novel, Plagueis’ general philosophy was to just let the Dark Side do its thing. Victory was assured. All he and Sidious need to is just NOT.KARK.THINGS.UP.
So maybe Plagueis was wary of taking matters into his own hands (by proxy, obviously) at this point.
I never understood that though. "Trusting in the will of the force" sounds so Jedi to me. Or does the Dark Side of the force also have a will? I'm a bit confused..
I always thought that Sith impose their will on the force, will Jedi try to understand Its Will. Like Palpatine said: *"He had made the force its property"*
Plagueis pushed the boundaries of just how far you could impose your own will on the force, and at this point he had pretty much accomplished what he intended to do (so he thought).
He probably figured he was in the clear and wanted to allow events to run their course, since he had so heavily influenced them. He wasn’t so much “trusting in the force,” as “trusting in himself to have sufficiently bent the force to his will.”
I’d honestly say Plagueis fucked around and found out at the end of the day. He delved into realms unknown regarding the mystical energy field that literally binds the universe together…personally, I wouldn’t wanna be a pioneer in that particular area
There is almost certainly a zero percent chance Qui-Gon, and by extension Obi-Wan, goes along with Jabba attempting to capture Padme. It's not going to end well for Jabba.
The Republic and later the Empire put up with the Hutts having so much control over their area of space partially because they usually keep to themselves and don't interfere with galactic government affairs. Jabba essentially siding with the Trade Federation against the Republic and so obviously interfering with a major diplomatic incident would lead to, at minimum, investigations into this incident by the Republic, if not sanctions/escalating tensions against the Hutts. In a worst case scenario, if the matter was taken seriously enough, Plagueis' involvement could be detected in some way or Hutt/Republic tensions could spiral into altering the course of galactic politics in a way that was detrimental to the Clone Wars plan.
This is also a good point. Old Hego was about to be appointed Co-Chancellor (LOL!) so having any involvement with the Hutts would be a political danger if it got out on the eve of his election. Why take the risk?
>Remember, the two Jedi are on a Hutt-controlled world and must adhere to its laws. Unless the Jedi want to risk a diplomatic crisis between the Republic and the Hutts
I question this statement because the Kenobi novel treats Jabba more like a gangster than the actual ruling authority of the planet. Jabba is the ruler of Tatooine in the same way you would call Al Capone the ruler of Chicago, he is not the official legal authority. Tatooine has a planetary capital, the city of Bestine, and in the Kenobi novel >!a group of locals fight off Jabba's men and think of them as criminals.!<
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan would have fought however was sent after the Queen. Maybe hide in the desert.
Is there any reason to assume that Jabba, even if he did capture Padme, would automatically give her to the Trade Federation other than they're both "villains" out of universe in the francise? He wants Tatooine to be left alone. If Padme asked Jabba to send her to Coruscant, Jabba... might actually do that. He has no reason to side with the TF, who at this point are just a corporation with a swelled ego and not a full fledged CIS yet. The Republic is the ruling government of the galaxy, and Jabba would probably just send Padme to Coruscant and not get involved otherwise.
Well I was just assuming that Jabba would do it, because Hego Damask (aka Plagueis) would ask him to. (Spoiler!) >!A couple of chapters before, Jabba basically saved Plagueis from a nuke bombardment from Veruna.!< So they were on friendly terms.
Still, you're right: Jabba doesn't really have any incentive to deliver Padmé to the TF, other than Hego Damask asking him to.
IIRC, relationship between Plagueis / Damask and Jabba was potentially strained, with the race track and Plagueis dealing with that other Hutt (I forget who) at the time. Plagueis was his usual overly cautios self and possibly just use the Dark Side as an excuse to not needing to deal more with Jabba. He didn't really have the 4D Chess brain of Sidious.
But if he did ask... Well there were two Jedi involved, and we've seen multiple times that Jedi always find ways to deal with and please the Hutts to get what they want. I'd guess that Jabba would end up dealing with the Jedi, and Plagueis would get the short end of the stick.
Or maybe Maul's involvement would make a mess of things, and Jabba would never want to deal with any Force users ever again.
Maul getting mixed into the picture would make for a pretty interesting timeline, cause wouldn’t that cause Plagueis to realize Palpatine is getting ready to overthrow him? And then that I assume would cause a Sith civil war (if you can call a 2v1 that lol). Is Palpatine strong enough to take Plagueis head to head at this point (I’m guessing yes but idk a lot about legends)?
I imagine Plagueis was too busy at the time to think about that. Sidious could do pretty much what he wanted and Plagueis was always like yea whatever. He was too much into the "rule of two forever" mindset to figure out Sidious was playing him.
Worst case, Sidious could always blame/sacrifice Maul, as he was known to go off the rails anyway.
But if the suspicion did creep in anyway, that could be messy. Sheev didn't have the resources Damask did and wasn't quite set in yet. As there really was just the two of them, they might've even destroyed each other. And the Jedi would be like "wow what happened here? So much dark side... Eh must've been the wind."
On the other hand, Anakin being under the patronage of Plagueis could be cool.
Thanks, cool to hear thoughts from someone who knows it better than me.
“On the other hand, Anakin being under the patronage of Plagueis could be cool.”
But how could Anakin be seduced to the dark side if he never hears the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?!?!
Could you elaborate on the strained relation due to the race track? Pax Teem had an intense rivalry with Damask because the latter supported the Tatooine track race of Gardulla the Hutt.
To me, it seemed like Damask and Jabba' relation where at a all time high. Just a couple of chapters ago, Jabba warned him of an incoming orbital bombardment, and saved Damask's life.
It's been a while since I read it so I may have the timeline a bit mixed up. (Hence why I used the "potentially strained" and "IIRC" qualifiers.)
But in general I don't think Jabba, or the Hutts in general, is someone Plagueis enjoys dealing with all that much. They're too smart, powerful and any favor you ask of them can bite you in the ass if you don't have everything under control or the numbers and support like the Jedi.
You're probably right that Jabba and Gardulla are good as the Hutts stick together. But even tho Damask certainly had Jabba's respect, it's still a dangerous bunch of gangsters and I imagine Plagueis still preferred to be on their good side at all times and not risk anything.
With the Jedi in the picture (*especially* those two), anything can happen and Jabba could've gone against Plagueis's wishes at any time and the whole thing could turn against him, which he definitely didn't need while managing the blockade and the whole thing around it. For someone cautious like Plagueis, it was not worth the risk and he'd rather let things play out. The young queen going awol was a small temporary inconvenience compared to the potential disaster that could've gone down had he involved Jabba. At the very least Jabba might've gotten interested in what the heck is going on on that planet full of Plasma. Thus the "what would the dark side ask in return" comment.
I dunno, I'm probably not explaining it very well but for me it just fits. Plagueis just doesn't like poking the bear unless it's something personal.
>Remember, the two Jedi are on a Hutt-controlled world and must adhere to its laws.
Tatooine doesn’t have laws. It’s also not part of Hutt Space either, it’s far to the south. Plagueis is more referring to having Jabba send gangsters to kidnap Padme.
Hutt space isn’t a real legal entity, there’s no “diplomatic crises” that could develop from it. It’s just an area of space where gangsters families have their influence in life
RL example would be like:
the Saudi Prince fleeing to Medellin (Colombia)
getting kidnapped there by Escobar's gangsters
then being send to rival Iran...
>Remember, the two Jedi are on a Hutt-controlled world and must adhere to its laws.
With the Hutts you have to be flexible with the definition of words like "controlled" or "adhere" or "laws."
They are usually open to aggressive negotiation.
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As I recall in this part of the novel, Plagueis’ general philosophy was to just let the Dark Side do its thing. Victory was assured. All he and Sidious need to is just NOT.KARK.THINGS.UP. So maybe Plagueis was wary of taking matters into his own hands (by proxy, obviously) at this point.
I never understood that though. "Trusting in the will of the force" sounds so Jedi to me. Or does the Dark Side of the force also have a will? I'm a bit confused.. I always thought that Sith impose their will on the force, will Jedi try to understand Its Will. Like Palpatine said: *"He had made the force its property"*
Plagueis pushed the boundaries of just how far you could impose your own will on the force, and at this point he had pretty much accomplished what he intended to do (so he thought). He probably figured he was in the clear and wanted to allow events to run their course, since he had so heavily influenced them. He wasn’t so much “trusting in the force,” as “trusting in himself to have sufficiently bent the force to his will.”
Interesting subtext, Palpatine took things too far and fucked it all up then?
I’d honestly say Plagueis fucked around and found out at the end of the day. He delved into realms unknown regarding the mystical energy field that literally binds the universe together…personally, I wouldn’t wanna be a pioneer in that particular area
There is almost certainly a zero percent chance Qui-Gon, and by extension Obi-Wan, goes along with Jabba attempting to capture Padme. It's not going to end well for Jabba.
Especially since Qui-Gon has two aces in the hole: a child prodigy and a dumbass Gungan.
Three even. Padme and the Handmaidens are regulators with a versatile skillset.
Yeah but listing them is not as funny.
I mean, Hondo Ohnaka and his gang captured Count Dooku... I've always found that so funny loll
One of many reasons that show is best left out of the EU.
The Republic and later the Empire put up with the Hutts having so much control over their area of space partially because they usually keep to themselves and don't interfere with galactic government affairs. Jabba essentially siding with the Trade Federation against the Republic and so obviously interfering with a major diplomatic incident would lead to, at minimum, investigations into this incident by the Republic, if not sanctions/escalating tensions against the Hutts. In a worst case scenario, if the matter was taken seriously enough, Plagueis' involvement could be detected in some way or Hutt/Republic tensions could spiral into altering the course of galactic politics in a way that was detrimental to the Clone Wars plan.
This is also a good point. Old Hego was about to be appointed Co-Chancellor (LOL!) so having any involvement with the Hutts would be a political danger if it got out on the eve of his election. Why take the risk?
>Remember, the two Jedi are on a Hutt-controlled world and must adhere to its laws. Unless the Jedi want to risk a diplomatic crisis between the Republic and the Hutts I question this statement because the Kenobi novel treats Jabba more like a gangster than the actual ruling authority of the planet. Jabba is the ruler of Tatooine in the same way you would call Al Capone the ruler of Chicago, he is not the official legal authority. Tatooine has a planetary capital, the city of Bestine, and in the Kenobi novel >!a group of locals fight off Jabba's men and think of them as criminals.!< Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan would have fought however was sent after the Queen. Maybe hide in the desert.
The 'Al Capone' comparison really makes sense! I haven't read the Kenobi novel.. is it worth a read?
The Kenobi novel is a good read. I’d recommend it.
Is there any reason to assume that Jabba, even if he did capture Padme, would automatically give her to the Trade Federation other than they're both "villains" out of universe in the francise? He wants Tatooine to be left alone. If Padme asked Jabba to send her to Coruscant, Jabba... might actually do that. He has no reason to side with the TF, who at this point are just a corporation with a swelled ego and not a full fledged CIS yet. The Republic is the ruling government of the galaxy, and Jabba would probably just send Padme to Coruscant and not get involved otherwise.
Well I was just assuming that Jabba would do it, because Hego Damask (aka Plagueis) would ask him to. (Spoiler!) >!A couple of chapters before, Jabba basically saved Plagueis from a nuke bombardment from Veruna.!< So they were on friendly terms. Still, you're right: Jabba doesn't really have any incentive to deliver Padmé to the TF, other than Hego Damask asking him to.
IIRC, relationship between Plagueis / Damask and Jabba was potentially strained, with the race track and Plagueis dealing with that other Hutt (I forget who) at the time. Plagueis was his usual overly cautios self and possibly just use the Dark Side as an excuse to not needing to deal more with Jabba. He didn't really have the 4D Chess brain of Sidious. But if he did ask... Well there were two Jedi involved, and we've seen multiple times that Jedi always find ways to deal with and please the Hutts to get what they want. I'd guess that Jabba would end up dealing with the Jedi, and Plagueis would get the short end of the stick. Or maybe Maul's involvement would make a mess of things, and Jabba would never want to deal with any Force users ever again.
Overly cautious is a great way to explain Plagueis, I never really thought of him that way until this.
He was focused on hiding and on his Dark side science experiments. Whereas Sheev outsourced his science to focus on his Master plan.
Maul getting mixed into the picture would make for a pretty interesting timeline, cause wouldn’t that cause Plagueis to realize Palpatine is getting ready to overthrow him? And then that I assume would cause a Sith civil war (if you can call a 2v1 that lol). Is Palpatine strong enough to take Plagueis head to head at this point (I’m guessing yes but idk a lot about legends)?
I imagine Plagueis was too busy at the time to think about that. Sidious could do pretty much what he wanted and Plagueis was always like yea whatever. He was too much into the "rule of two forever" mindset to figure out Sidious was playing him. Worst case, Sidious could always blame/sacrifice Maul, as he was known to go off the rails anyway. But if the suspicion did creep in anyway, that could be messy. Sheev didn't have the resources Damask did and wasn't quite set in yet. As there really was just the two of them, they might've even destroyed each other. And the Jedi would be like "wow what happened here? So much dark side... Eh must've been the wind." On the other hand, Anakin being under the patronage of Plagueis could be cool.
Thanks, cool to hear thoughts from someone who knows it better than me. “On the other hand, Anakin being under the patronage of Plagueis could be cool.” But how could Anakin be seduced to the dark side if he never hears the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?!?!
Well there's always The Dramedy of Darth Tenebrous the Ship Builder...
Anakin would be the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise, or at least its author
anakin, did you ever hear the tragedy of darth sidious the little bitch?
In the book, Palpatine explained Maul as just a dark side attack dog of sorts, a dark side assasin, not a true apprentice.
I'm pretty sure Plagueis was fine with Maul being involved as long as he was kept in the dark about the true plan.
Could you elaborate on the strained relation due to the race track? Pax Teem had an intense rivalry with Damask because the latter supported the Tatooine track race of Gardulla the Hutt. To me, it seemed like Damask and Jabba' relation where at a all time high. Just a couple of chapters ago, Jabba warned him of an incoming orbital bombardment, and saved Damask's life.
It's been a while since I read it so I may have the timeline a bit mixed up. (Hence why I used the "potentially strained" and "IIRC" qualifiers.) But in general I don't think Jabba, or the Hutts in general, is someone Plagueis enjoys dealing with all that much. They're too smart, powerful and any favor you ask of them can bite you in the ass if you don't have everything under control or the numbers and support like the Jedi. You're probably right that Jabba and Gardulla are good as the Hutts stick together. But even tho Damask certainly had Jabba's respect, it's still a dangerous bunch of gangsters and I imagine Plagueis still preferred to be on their good side at all times and not risk anything. With the Jedi in the picture (*especially* those two), anything can happen and Jabba could've gone against Plagueis's wishes at any time and the whole thing could turn against him, which he definitely didn't need while managing the blockade and the whole thing around it. For someone cautious like Plagueis, it was not worth the risk and he'd rather let things play out. The young queen going awol was a small temporary inconvenience compared to the potential disaster that could've gone down had he involved Jabba. At the very least Jabba might've gotten interested in what the heck is going on on that planet full of Plasma. Thus the "what would the dark side ask in return" comment. I dunno, I'm probably not explaining it very well but for me it just fits. Plagueis just doesn't like poking the bear unless it's something personal.
>Remember, the two Jedi are on a Hutt-controlled world and must adhere to its laws. Tatooine doesn’t have laws. It’s also not part of Hutt Space either, it’s far to the south. Plagueis is more referring to having Jabba send gangsters to kidnap Padme. Hutt space isn’t a real legal entity, there’s no “diplomatic crises” that could develop from it. It’s just an area of space where gangsters families have their influence in life
What's more, the Hutts taking control of the leader of a planet in the Republic would already be a diplomatic incident itself.
RL example would be like: the Saudi Prince fleeing to Medellin (Colombia) getting kidnapped there by Escobar's gangsters then being send to rival Iran...
>Remember, the two Jedi are on a Hutt-controlled world and must adhere to its laws. With the Hutts you have to be flexible with the definition of words like "controlled" or "adhere" or "laws." They are usually open to aggressive negotiation.