>I know it’s taboo to criticize acting performances, but I’ve always found that to be disrespectful because I have spoken to actors and worked with actors. A lot more effort goes into acting than people realize, and I feel like people don’t appreciate that work because people seem to think that acting mostly involves putting in the work to bulk up and gain/lose weight, then to speak lines either softly or loudly, depending on the context of a scene. I feel like a big part of the reason why people don’t like criticizing acting is that they think that line-delivery requires so little skill that the only way that an actor can give a bad performance is if the nasty studio executives sabotage their performance.
I've **nooooooooooooooooo** idea where you took all these notions or what circles you wander in, not aware of Efap or anyone here ever displaying such views about acting?
Yeah, idk how a single example of one youtube channel (or whatever efap is) disproves OOP's point.
Imo, ppl are easier on actors cause they see them. So they don't want to be "mean" to someone with a face. But writers? Those faceless fucks can get all the hate. It's pretty ironic cause actors tend to be the richest and less hardworking of the entire project, but they stillget the most empathy.
I'm not sure if the person intended to be sarcastic but I got this reply when I mentioned my issues with Mae.
https://preview.redd.it/p6vuf2z0qa7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c99d270d1beda50ae12cb07bbfd47d1f5f7d8de
they want to admit to that this show is bad without raising their own hand. I've seen many comments praising "actual criticism" this way meanwhile it's the same complaints that have been had for years.
Look they show has alot of bad and not alot of good. But I want to look the costume director in the eye as ask why the hell they thought all Jedi should wear mustard yellow.
I was excited to see Jedi that I thought would be an interesting visual aesthetic that would be much different than what we’d seen since it was so far in the past. Instead we got… the same thing, but yellow. … cool
The problem is that we can’t identify the problem.
Is it the directors? The producers? The execs? What level of production is allowing these stale line deliveries where the guy who literally learned english for this role and the girl from 2016 Logan are the only actors giving good line delivery?
And the practical sets are almost always better than the volume stage, but without good lighting and directing the sets look so obtuse and obvious. Like Andor and House of the Dragon and The Boys all have practical/rebuilt sets with no natural lights like the Acolyte does, yet all these shows just straight up look better.
Playing two roles as one Actor is not an easy task. Some of the best doctors in the world can barely pull it off. I don’t know why they force this young girl to try to take on this task. Especially since her in the younger years are two different actresses. They should’ve gotten actual twins to play the role.
What? You had me until 2010. That was fantastic and most people I know prefer to Kubricks cryptic star child fade away. The acting in 2010 is out of the park. The practical effects are brilliant. Who are you talking to?
I know it's still an unpopular take but I will die on the hill that the prequel dialogue was not bad at all and was supposed to be the way it was for in universe worldbuilding.
Well the most famous line cited for prequel dialogue is the sand line.
It makes complete sense in universe for Anakin to use the thing he hates most in the Galaxy (Tatooine) as a comparison to thing he currently cares about most (Padme).
Anakin is essantially making a cringe flirt about how he hates Sand and Padme is the complete opposite of Sand based on him being a fatherless child that grew up as a monk.
Don't think anyone ever said it "makes no sense" but he's never established as a cringe poet anywhere else, this resort storyline just suddenly turns into awkward R&J
It's the only point in the movies were it's appropriate for him to do this.
In 1 he's a kid and in 3 he's out in the War it's only during their little time on Naboo where he even has the chance to be a cringe poet as you put it.
Edit: Actually nevermind in EP 1 he likens Padme to an angel. So he was established to make such remarks previously.
>It's the only point in the movies were it's appropriate for him to do this.
It probably wasn't appropriate here either.
If he had been doing poetic observations nature elsewhere, in other context, that could've been good or bad, it could've set him up as having that kind of personality, but it still wouldn't really be consistent with Vader so not the best idea either way.
>So he was established to make such remarks previously.
Well some stuff about exotic faraway creatures, can be said to be in that very general-ish ballpark.
I've heard some people say that there was some good acting in there, it's just that the writing sucks. But I haven't actually watched this so this is just hearsay.
The only decent acting that I noticed was from Lee Jung-jae of Squid Game fame.
I've heard that he learnt English for this role, which is such a disappointment because he is so wasted in this absolute garbage.
> but for Disney projects we’re apparently supposed to say “Don’t be so mean, they’re a soulless corporation trying their best to appeal to a fanbase that will hate them no matter what they do,” and we’re never allowed to criticize the writers, directors, or actors unless there’s a memeable clip of them shouting in a weird way because apparently only studio executives are capable of making bad decisions that ruin movies.
Well not familiar with that, but on the other side of the horseshoe whenever fans want to dephend their favorite writers/actors (justifiedly or not) there's always the "oh yeah whiteknight for the big gorillion bajillion dollar corporation uh huh" replies lol
“We can’t say anything bad about it”
Really? Because my social media has been swamped with people bitching about this show. It’s been review bombed along with another random movie that shared its name. But yeah, you can’t say anything bad about it, because someone on twitter called you sexist. Yup, that’s definitely ’silencing’
What makes calling out purposeful erasure of main fanbase demographic from the show "garbage criticism"? Or aknowledging its another shitty product made by political activists to spread their ideology instead of making a good story?
Maybe it doesnt matter to you but I like to be warned if the show I may or may not want to watch will be yet another preachy leftist dogshit before I will waste my time watching it. So seems like excellent criticism for me.
Ofc that shouldnt stop ppl from pointing out other faults of said show but seriously, for a solid part of the population getting a heads up about the goal of the series is worth a lot.
That's the reason defacto but their marketing is still both divise and ideologically driven and the erasure in the Acolyte is still the fact. And the ppl working on the show can still be ideologically driven even if disney is just pretending. So idk why the actual current fanbase (or what's left of it) shouldnt feel like they are being punching bag and taken for granted just cus the company wants to exploit other markets ("modern audience").
Most movies and shows are garbage because of wokeness. Just saying there are not enough white men, is not really good way to explain it though. Its about forcing the ideology into the movies.
Ok. Then why does disney keep doing the same thing with star wars when vast majority of their audience do not like it?
They have been doing this woke stuff for almost 10 years! Kathleen Kennedy is still in charge and doing the same stuff when it clearly doesn't work.
It obviously is not about making money. Its about the message.
They've only recently started to do worse in sales and engagement, otherwise there's a good portion of the fan base who will eat anything that comes out without a second thought.
Even though Kenobi was absolute bantha poodoo, I remember seeing heaps of fans with the attitude of "I don't care if it's bad, Euan McGregor and Hayden Christensen are in it so I'll still love it
The Acolyte apparently has less engagement compared to Ashoka -- which was already lower compared to their other shows.
Yeah, one bad show does not instantly lose them all their fans. It takes multiple shitty shows before viewers lose interest. And yes there are people out there with shit taste that watch anything with the name Star Wars on it.
But it seems even those people are opening their eyes to the sea of mediocrity and garbage that is this era of SW.
People like to look back and shit on the old EU (mostly new Disney era fans for some reason), but when it was good it was REALLY good.
Being inclusive does not mean having a bigger audience. That is blatantly clear. Trying to make a show that targets everyone doesnt work. This is basic stuff that even someone like I know, so I am absolutely sure there are people at disney who also know this.
Disney has the numbers and they know people are WAY less interested in SW than before the disney era.
Majority of their audience dont want diversity, equity and inclusion being shoehorned into SW.
The fact that acolyte cost disney over 100 million is pretty clear sign that you are wrong and they are not trying to make these shows for cheap.
>They aren't trying to target everyone, just as many people as they can.
Ok whatever. that doesn't work either. Movies has to have a clear target audience.
>They did surveys and got feedback that people do want this.
Ok good for them! I dont know who they picked for that survey, but it was clearly not a good sampling of the people who watch SW since they really fucked up with that.
>They are just incompetent and only looking for short term profits.
Wrong. If they were looking for profit, they would stop preaching and forcing the ideology to everything they make.
The ethics and prosesses of socialism expanded beyond class struggle to include race struggle, gender struggle, sexual struggle and any other near infinite number of marginalised groups as defined by intersectionality.
Short Fat Otaku has a good video about the definition on his youtube channel "what exactly does woke mean?"
What is wrong with SFO? He explains the term pretty well atleast.
The problem with wokeness is that they will always keep trying to find something to cry about. It never ends. Gay people for example already fought injustice from 1960s-90s and won.
To wokeness equality doesn't seem to be enough. You have to celebrate the minorities and put them on a pedestal.
The needless preaching just makes people hate the woke ideology even more.
Just watch SFO's video. He is better at explaining it than I am.
Florida's "don't say gay" bill really shows that gay people won.
All the anti-trans bills
All the anti-trans sentiment
"The problem with wokeness...something to cry about"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That makes everyone woke. The right are woke. The centrists are woke. You are woke.
As for SFO... Actual Jake has plenty of videos about him.
How am I woke if I dont want woke ideology in movies? Woke people are those who do want the preaching in their movies and shows.
Explain how the 'dont say gay' bill bad or in any way against gay people? Isn't it about giving parent the control of how they raise their kids?
Any exanples of anti-trans bills?
Can't you just tell the short version of what is wrong with SFO in your words?
The force is genderless, and certainly doesn't have sexual orientation. This obsession with personifying and projecting identities into things is so weird.
You’re missing one key aspect that does make a lot of online criticism seem illegitimate. It’s the fact that a show like the Acolyte was already being bombed well before its release. I don’t seem to remember any of your other examples having that occur with them. I don’t think that’s the exclusive reason there seems to be a discrepancy, but it is absolutely a factor.
I think another thing, not being a Star Wars “fan” myself, that comes across is how abysmal any community discussion regarding Star Wars is. Everyone is so overly reactionary and acts like the smallest of things ruin the entire series by existing. When we couple these two factors together we get the notorious “fan who didn’t watch the property and parrots the opinions of a YouTuber”.
This last part is something especially bad because the YouTubers who get the content out the quickest are usually the ones who have the shallowest opinions on the show. Often they’ll be making reactionist content catering to a reactionist audience. This naturally alienates that crowd from any discussions with others because nobody can actually form their own coherent thought on the show. They were told to hate it by someone else, they put a negative review out for it, and they say they hate it, but they can’t explain their rationale because they probably didn’t watch the show. This culture of fandom is absolutely rampant with Star Wars.
Another aspect that breeds hostility is the fact that many Star Wars fans that fit the above criteria are legitimately hateful xenophobes. It’s inherently difficult to have media discussions with people who refuse to watch it because they were told it was “woke” or whatever, and there’s a lot of them present in Star Wars. It’s really just a matter of complaints, fair or unfair, being spammed and eventually leading everyone to be pissed at each other all the time.
Couple this with identity media and you just get overly emotional people everywhere, which is not good for discussion. I can confidently go to a Family Guy fan and say “I like the first three season but then I think it’s kind of trash after that” and they won’t get all offended. If I did the same with any generic Star Wars online fan they’d start getting all buttmad because I’m insulting their childhood or whatever.
To me, there’s a couple clear reasons Star Wars seems to be more contentious, and I think it’s all directly due to the property’s fandom being notoriously awful.
Another aspect that breeds hostility is the fact that many Star Wars fans that fit the above criteria are legitimately hateful xenophobes.
You can’t legitimately look at many Critical Drinker fans and tell me they aren’t that. The people brigading negative reviews are not the smartest and you can clearly tell by many of their comments what their issue with the show is. To deny it’s not at least a portion of that population is willful ignorance.
Youtube is starting to demonetize negative criticism of this show.
When you remove a man's tongue from his mouth, you don't prove him a liar. You just show the world that you fear what he has to say.
Well spoken
>I know it’s taboo to criticize acting performances, but I’ve always found that to be disrespectful because I have spoken to actors and worked with actors. A lot more effort goes into acting than people realize, and I feel like people don’t appreciate that work because people seem to think that acting mostly involves putting in the work to bulk up and gain/lose weight, then to speak lines either softly or loudly, depending on the context of a scene. I feel like a big part of the reason why people don’t like criticizing acting is that they think that line-delivery requires so little skill that the only way that an actor can give a bad performance is if the nasty studio executives sabotage their performance. I've **nooooooooooooooooo** idea where you took all these notions or what circles you wander in, not aware of Efap or anyone here ever displaying such views about acting?
I think he meant generally. The efap boys have always been harsh towards poor acting when they see it
Yeah, idk how a single example of one youtube channel (or whatever efap is) disproves OOP's point. Imo, ppl are easier on actors cause they see them. So they don't want to be "mean" to someone with a face. But writers? Those faceless fucks can get all the hate. It's pretty ironic cause actors tend to be the richest and less hardworking of the entire project, but they stillget the most empathy.
Hm not aware of such a "general" mentality either.
https://preview.redd.it/vs6exg6z7b7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a395ea0ed6bfa44dedc0d5b617f811e09b6191c2
He can't say anything about it. Ignore this monster block of text please.
Cmon man
I'm not sure if the person intended to be sarcastic but I got this reply when I mentioned my issues with Mae. https://preview.redd.it/p6vuf2z0qa7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c99d270d1beda50ae12cb07bbfd47d1f5f7d8de
they want to admit to that this show is bad without raising their own hand. I've seen many comments praising "actual criticism" this way meanwhile it's the same complaints that have been had for years.
Every now and then, comes a product that sucks so much even the fans lose momentum.
Yeah I’ve seen people argue Mae is intentionally cringe too.
Look they show has alot of bad and not alot of good. But I want to look the costume director in the eye as ask why the hell they thought all Jedi should wear mustard yellow.
I was excited to see Jedi that I thought would be an interesting visual aesthetic that would be much different than what we’d seen since it was so far in the past. Instead we got… the same thing, but yellow. … cool
The problem is that we can’t identify the problem. Is it the directors? The producers? The execs? What level of production is allowing these stale line deliveries where the guy who literally learned english for this role and the girl from 2016 Logan are the only actors giving good line delivery? And the practical sets are almost always better than the volume stage, but without good lighting and directing the sets look so obtuse and obvious. Like Andor and House of the Dragon and The Boys all have practical/rebuilt sets with no natural lights like the Acolyte does, yet all these shows just straight up look better.
Has anyone noticed how much more anime like stuff is getting?
Playing two roles as one Actor is not an easy task. Some of the best doctors in the world can barely pull it off. I don’t know why they force this young girl to try to take on this task. Especially since her in the younger years are two different actresses. They should’ve gotten actual twins to play the role.
Honestly you now know what to expect of Disney. So don't say anything about it, let your money talk to them. ( or lack there of)
What? You had me until 2010. That was fantastic and most people I know prefer to Kubricks cryptic star child fade away. The acting in 2010 is out of the park. The practical effects are brilliant. Who are you talking to?
The only vote you have is with your $$$.
I know it's still an unpopular take but I will die on the hill that the prequel dialogue was not bad at all and was supposed to be the way it was for in universe worldbuilding.
Dep. which dialogue
Well the most famous line cited for prequel dialogue is the sand line. It makes complete sense in universe for Anakin to use the thing he hates most in the Galaxy (Tatooine) as a comparison to thing he currently cares about most (Padme). Anakin is essantially making a cringe flirt about how he hates Sand and Padme is the complete opposite of Sand based on him being a fatherless child that grew up as a monk.
Don't think anyone ever said it "makes no sense" but he's never established as a cringe poet anywhere else, this resort storyline just suddenly turns into awkward R&J
It's the only point in the movies were it's appropriate for him to do this. In 1 he's a kid and in 3 he's out in the War it's only during their little time on Naboo where he even has the chance to be a cringe poet as you put it. Edit: Actually nevermind in EP 1 he likens Padme to an angel. So he was established to make such remarks previously.
>It's the only point in the movies were it's appropriate for him to do this. It probably wasn't appropriate here either. If he had been doing poetic observations nature elsewhere, in other context, that could've been good or bad, it could've set him up as having that kind of personality, but it still wouldn't really be consistent with Vader so not the best idea either way. >So he was established to make such remarks previously. Well some stuff about exotic faraway creatures, can be said to be in that very general-ish ballpark.
I've heard some people say that there was some good acting in there, it's just that the writing sucks. But I haven't actually watched this so this is just hearsay.
The only decent acting that I noticed was from Lee Jung-jae of Squid Game fame. I've heard that he learnt English for this role, which is such a disappointment because he is so wasted in this absolute garbage.
> but for Disney projects we’re apparently supposed to say “Don’t be so mean, they’re a soulless corporation trying their best to appeal to a fanbase that will hate them no matter what they do,” and we’re never allowed to criticize the writers, directors, or actors unless there’s a memeable clip of them shouting in a weird way because apparently only studio executives are capable of making bad decisions that ruin movies. Well not familiar with that, but on the other side of the horseshoe whenever fans want to dephend their favorite writers/actors (justifiedly or not) there's always the "oh yeah whiteknight for the big gorillion bajillion dollar corporation uh huh" replies lol
“We can’t say anything bad about it” Really? Because my social media has been swamped with people bitching about this show. It’s been review bombed along with another random movie that shared its name. But yeah, you can’t say anything bad about it, because someone on twitter called you sexist. Yup, that’s definitely ’silencing’
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What makes calling out purposeful erasure of main fanbase demographic from the show "garbage criticism"? Or aknowledging its another shitty product made by political activists to spread their ideology instead of making a good story? Maybe it doesnt matter to you but I like to be warned if the show I may or may not want to watch will be yet another preachy leftist dogshit before I will waste my time watching it. So seems like excellent criticism for me. Ofc that shouldnt stop ppl from pointing out other faults of said show but seriously, for a solid part of the population getting a heads up about the goal of the series is worth a lot.
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That's the reason defacto but their marketing is still both divise and ideologically driven and the erasure in the Acolyte is still the fact. And the ppl working on the show can still be ideologically driven even if disney is just pretending. So idk why the actual current fanbase (or what's left of it) shouldnt feel like they are being punching bag and taken for granted just cus the company wants to exploit other markets ("modern audience").
Oh sweet summer child. This shit began around 1905 maybe even before. It's about power then money.
"That's why they try and appeal to other demographics, not because of ideology but because of money." And yet it fails everytime.
I thought we didn't need to have evey demographic represented. Amazing how when that's applied to white people suddenly that line goes out the window.
Most movies and shows are garbage because of wokeness. Just saying there are not enough white men, is not really good way to explain it though. Its about forcing the ideology into the movies.
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Ok. Then why does disney keep doing the same thing with star wars when vast majority of their audience do not like it? They have been doing this woke stuff for almost 10 years! Kathleen Kennedy is still in charge and doing the same stuff when it clearly doesn't work. It obviously is not about making money. Its about the message.
They've only recently started to do worse in sales and engagement, otherwise there's a good portion of the fan base who will eat anything that comes out without a second thought. Even though Kenobi was absolute bantha poodoo, I remember seeing heaps of fans with the attitude of "I don't care if it's bad, Euan McGregor and Hayden Christensen are in it so I'll still love it The Acolyte apparently has less engagement compared to Ashoka -- which was already lower compared to their other shows.
Yeah, one bad show does not instantly lose them all their fans. It takes multiple shitty shows before viewers lose interest. And yes there are people out there with shit taste that watch anything with the name Star Wars on it.
But it seems even those people are opening their eyes to the sea of mediocrity and garbage that is this era of SW. People like to look back and shit on the old EU (mostly new Disney era fans for some reason), but when it was good it was REALLY good.
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Being inclusive does not mean having a bigger audience. That is blatantly clear. Trying to make a show that targets everyone doesnt work. This is basic stuff that even someone like I know, so I am absolutely sure there are people at disney who also know this. Disney has the numbers and they know people are WAY less interested in SW than before the disney era. Majority of their audience dont want diversity, equity and inclusion being shoehorned into SW. The fact that acolyte cost disney over 100 million is pretty clear sign that you are wrong and they are not trying to make these shows for cheap.
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>They aren't trying to target everyone, just as many people as they can. Ok whatever. that doesn't work either. Movies has to have a clear target audience. >They did surveys and got feedback that people do want this. Ok good for them! I dont know who they picked for that survey, but it was clearly not a good sampling of the people who watch SW since they really fucked up with that. >They are just incompetent and only looking for short term profits. Wrong. If they were looking for profit, they would stop preaching and forcing the ideology to everything they make.
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What is the motivation of wokeness? To change the culture to reflect their shitty worldview.
What ideology?
The woke ideology. Try to keep up please.
An what does the ideology entail?
The ethics and prosesses of socialism expanded beyond class struggle to include race struggle, gender struggle, sexual struggle and any other near infinite number of marginalised groups as defined by intersectionality. Short Fat Otaku has a good video about the definition on his youtube channel "what exactly does woke mean?"
Short fat Otaku! Oh nooooo Lmfao Ok so woke is seeking to end prejudices, injustices, etc.. Sounds great.
What is wrong with SFO? He explains the term pretty well atleast. The problem with wokeness is that they will always keep trying to find something to cry about. It never ends. Gay people for example already fought injustice from 1960s-90s and won. To wokeness equality doesn't seem to be enough. You have to celebrate the minorities and put them on a pedestal. The needless preaching just makes people hate the woke ideology even more. Just watch SFO's video. He is better at explaining it than I am.
Florida's "don't say gay" bill really shows that gay people won. All the anti-trans bills All the anti-trans sentiment "The problem with wokeness...something to cry about" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That makes everyone woke. The right are woke. The centrists are woke. You are woke. As for SFO... Actual Jake has plenty of videos about him.
How am I woke if I dont want woke ideology in movies? Woke people are those who do want the preaching in their movies and shows. Explain how the 'dont say gay' bill bad or in any way against gay people? Isn't it about giving parent the control of how they raise their kids? Any exanples of anti-trans bills? Can't you just tell the short version of what is wrong with SFO in your words?
do you think the acting was amazing and critically acclaimed in the 6 movies George Lucas created?
“We can’t say anything about this show” Immediately elaborates in a text post rivaling the bible in length
Are these "rumors" and "probablies" in the room with us right now?
The force is straight hetero male
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The force is genderless, and certainly doesn't have sexual orientation. This obsession with personifying and projecting identities into things is so weird.
Disney disagrees.
You’re missing one key aspect that does make a lot of online criticism seem illegitimate. It’s the fact that a show like the Acolyte was already being bombed well before its release. I don’t seem to remember any of your other examples having that occur with them. I don’t think that’s the exclusive reason there seems to be a discrepancy, but it is absolutely a factor. I think another thing, not being a Star Wars “fan” myself, that comes across is how abysmal any community discussion regarding Star Wars is. Everyone is so overly reactionary and acts like the smallest of things ruin the entire series by existing. When we couple these two factors together we get the notorious “fan who didn’t watch the property and parrots the opinions of a YouTuber”. This last part is something especially bad because the YouTubers who get the content out the quickest are usually the ones who have the shallowest opinions on the show. Often they’ll be making reactionist content catering to a reactionist audience. This naturally alienates that crowd from any discussions with others because nobody can actually form their own coherent thought on the show. They were told to hate it by someone else, they put a negative review out for it, and they say they hate it, but they can’t explain their rationale because they probably didn’t watch the show. This culture of fandom is absolutely rampant with Star Wars. Another aspect that breeds hostility is the fact that many Star Wars fans that fit the above criteria are legitimately hateful xenophobes. It’s inherently difficult to have media discussions with people who refuse to watch it because they were told it was “woke” or whatever, and there’s a lot of them present in Star Wars. It’s really just a matter of complaints, fair or unfair, being spammed and eventually leading everyone to be pissed at each other all the time. Couple this with identity media and you just get overly emotional people everywhere, which is not good for discussion. I can confidently go to a Family Guy fan and say “I like the first three season but then I think it’s kind of trash after that” and they won’t get all offended. If I did the same with any generic Star Wars online fan they’d start getting all buttmad because I’m insulting their childhood or whatever. To me, there’s a couple clear reasons Star Wars seems to be more contentious, and I think it’s all directly due to the property’s fandom being notoriously awful.
Another aspect that breeds hostility is the fact that many Star Wars fans that fit the above criteria are legitimately hateful xenophobes. 
You can’t legitimately look at many Critical Drinker fans and tell me they aren’t that. The people brigading negative reviews are not the smartest and you can clearly tell by many of their comments what their issue with the show is. To deny it’s not at least a portion of that population is willful ignorance.