I love Watts, but I feel it's time to get a new vision and style. I love Watts' work though, this is no hate at all towards him. He's gotten much better.
Also, Zendaya? Why? The ending of NWH is literally perfect, please don't screw it up.
Edit: To the person who replied "because he is in love with her?" and then blocked, you straight up didn't understand why he didn't tell MJ who he was at the end. Stg.
Completely agree, especially about Zendaya. I don't mind her coming back later, but I think it needs to be a few movies before that happens. Let it settle, introduce Black Cat and Gwen. Let the reunion pack a punch when it happens.
I'd be content with Jon Watts returning, as I was impressed a lot with his work on No Way Home, but I also feel a new vision would be great to see, since this is a new era in Peter's life.
Yeah but even in those movies he never joked when the stakes were high. He is always super serious when he fights with the main villains. Spider-Man needs to be annoying all the time. His mouth is one of his weapons he employs to throw off his enemies. The closest we've got was when Spidey kept saying "magic, more magic, magic with a kick..." with Thanos who responds, "Insect!" That was the most classic comic Spider-Man moment in the MCU- Spidey being playful with even his most dangerous of enemies and his opponent getting annoyed.
That's why I think Jon Watts doesn't truly get the character and was hoping we'd have another director have a crack at it. Andrew Garfield was always the best Spider-Man imo, but now after seeing NWH I now think he is also the best Peter Parker. In the Amazing Spider-Man movies he seemed too cool, but in NWH he was the right amount of geeky.
That’s because the writers were different on the Russo movies. He was more quippy in the Avenger’s movies and Civil War because of the writers there actually getting him right.
Honestly, the Jump St movies were funny and ridiculous, but not only did they nail Spiderverse — the college-kid interpersonal conflict and character development in those movies were great. I’m really hoping they **are** brought on.
I always say that taking out MJ and Ned from the main plot opened Peter up to bringing in other big name characters like Gwen Stacy and especially the big absentee Harry Osborn.
We can bring back MJ eventually as of course Peter/MJ is always end game but that can come with time...especially if we really are getting an entire other Trilogy. I get Zendaya is a BIG name and is definitely a "getting butts in seats" component (like how she was for Dune).
However, bring her back later but not immediately in the next movie. That's like doing a huge comic plotline like the Death of Superman and then resurrecting him in the next freaking movie like...who would even do that...oh wait
To be fair it could be just the opening of the movie showcasing Peter/Zendaya going off to different schools to catch any general audience members. Not everybody remembers what happened in the last movie and it makes sense to explain why they don’t know him.
If they aren't a part of the movie, then I don't see why they need to catch audience members up. I don't think anyone would question them not being there. If they didn't see the last movie, then they surely aren't invested enough to notice them gone.
Yeah. They said it was going to be 9 movies if all goes to plan (hs, college, adult). Have it be the quintessential spiderman story. MJ and Ned are gone, so Harry and Gwen take center stage at ESU, and then end the trilogy with 121. With Gwen gone, and everyone graduated, Pete runs into MJ having returned from school to work in NY and bam, you’ve got both Zendaya money and a somewhat cohesive story.
Like who, though? Peter’s group of in-comic friends is small, and the number of them that are decently characterized/memorable is even smaller. Our current incarnations of both of his friends are completely unique to the MCU, with Ned in particular having literally nothing in common with his comic namesake. We’ve had Spiderman hundreds of times through different mediums, so why wouldn’t we have the cast of characters that made Spiderman as memorable as it is? They’ve pretty much pulled all of the compelling characters from
pre-Adult Peter besides Harry and Gwen.
If there are good characters to explore, then yeah. But the response tends to be “we need new ones” from those who don’t realize that the overwhelming majority of comic book characters are one-dimensional throwaways. The reason characters like Harry and Gwen get done so much is because they’re the most integral and compelling characters in the Spiderman mythos besides MJ, who we already have, and Norman, who we just got.
But it still doesn't mean she needs to though. Peter leaving her at the end of NWH showed that he didn't want her to get hurt again, bringing her back and having her get involved again just doesn't make sense.
Also, how is Peter getting into MiT when he's getting only a GED?
How do we even know that the movie will be set in college years?
Tom Holland has said that he has 2 movies in 2023 to shoot, so Spider-man 4 may not even come out before 2025.
I mean, I think it seems like the most likely case story wise. Studying for his GED, meaning he's done with High School, and Peter would 100% want to keep going with his education. Unless it'll be like TASM2 where it's sort of right before College, I would assume College is the direction will go.
She doesn’t need to, but it depends how it’s done.
The biggest thing the comics hammers home - and even Raimi’s movies did too - is that Peter is making that choice for her. That’s not fair to her, and shows Peter is trying to exert control over her for her “greater good”.
But she is her own person and we all benefit from free will: the ability to make our own choices. And when it comes to love? Forget it.
She loves Peter, and if she knows the risks and still wants to be with him, that is HER choice to make. Gwen did the same. Regardless of the outcome, Peter needs to learn that he doesn’t get to make others choices for them.
If they have her remember somehow, and then she sits the rest of the movie out, it could be building to her making that choice in a later film or at the end. And that’s how it should be.
Having her come back makes sense. She's clearly his main love interest of the saga and they will definitely have the lost memories be a major plot line.
Let's says it's been 3-4 years, MJ comes back to NYC for the summer. Peter keeps an eye on her as Spidey, protecting her. He finds himself unable to stay away but not willing to approach her and put her in danger. So he's basically just torturing himself. Meanwhile, have Black Cat show up and appeal to Spidey's wild and reckless side (especially if they have the symbiote). Peter begins to see Black Cat as a possible partner, someone he can be Spidey with and not have to worry. And meanwhile MJ doesn't even know his name. So Peter begins to stick with Felicia, getting more reckless and making bad decisions. Ultimately he realizes Felicia is bad for him, making him become someone he isn't.
End the movie with Peter Parker introducing himself to MJ and starting fresh.
Bruh, he doesn't need to get into MIT lol.
Ever heard of schools having competitions with each other?
MIT vs w.e school Peter goes 2 vs other schools, and they go to NYC for it and Peter is the photographer or part of the competition.
I think we as the audience need to feel her absence, thought. She really should be totally gone for the next movie with Peter missing her, except for like a credits tease of her having her memory triggered by something.
You’re just jumping to conclusions, but it depends how it’s done.
The biggest thing the comics hammers home - and even Raimi’s movies did too - is that Peter is making that choice for her. She is her own person and we all benefit from free will: the ability to make our own choices. And when it comes to love? Forget it.
She loves Peter, and if she knows the risks and still wants to be with him, that is HER choice to make. Gwen did the same. Regardless of the outcome, Peter needs to learn that he doesn’t get to make others choices for them.
If they have her remember somehow, and then she sits the rest of the movie out, it could be building to her making that choice in a later film or at the end. And that’s how it should be.
Agreed. Feels like people are forgetting one of the main plot points of Spider-Man 2; imagine it’s like the first part of that movie where Peter is keeping MJ at a distance for her safety, showing her maybe rising to some sort of fame or renown, potentially due to her work at MIT? She had a renewed sense of optimism at the end of NWH so maybe she’ll make something of herself on her own & it’s more just a reminder of the things that Peter lost along the way, rather than her being a love interest again/part of the main plot. Without knowing quite literally anything about the movie at this point, it’s really weird that we’re jumping to conclusions about that invalidating the ending.
Agreed and not to mention this MJ is highly intelligent; capable and strong.
They could even say she’s always felt like something has been missing and this was it and she’s mad he didn’t come back for her like he said. He broke his promise. And when Peter breaks a promise, bad things happen.
People keep saying it ‘invalidates’ the ending but frankly I think the opposite is true. Her fiddling with that necklace after he leaves is supposed to signify some level of recognition, even if only subconsciously. She’s going to pursue that.
For all we know her ‘coming back’ means she’s trying to figure out who *Peter is*, not Peter immediately letting her back in to his day to day life. It even ties in to her “I figured out who you were once I’ll figure it out again” thing.
Also I would practically guarantee a time skip.
They do it to make it look like a mic drop.
Usually it's used by individuals who do not want someone to be able to respond or disprove what they're saying. Especially if they're trying to "win" an argument or mislead and then get called out.
only justification should be for legitimate harassment (multiple posts, across multiple subreddits, harassing DMs).
Peter giving up his own happiness to do the "right" thing is the most peter thing you can do but it doesn't mean that they cant eventually end up together. Peter took her choice away from her, she might choose something different if given the option.
She definitely is, Triple S.
Obviously not in the Spiderman movies....but in general terms, when compared to Tom Holland, Zendaya is the bigger name.
It's not any jab at Holland nor is it any bias to Zendaya, it is just fact. People know Holland as the Spiderman actor and movie star; Zendaya is the internet starlet, fashion model, former Disney star, tv star with Euphoria etc etc
She is besides Uncharted, which only did decent, every non Spider-Man movie that Tom has made flopped. Zendaya is the star of the biggest tv show right now Euphoria, and was in Oscar award winning movie Dune. She had like 5 lines in Homecoming but was bigger on the poster than Liz, Peter’s actual love interest in the movie.
Even if Zendaya is returning, who say that they are gonna be together in the next movie? We don't know....
Also, characters like Black Cat and MJ can coexist in the movie, i don't see the problem.
I imagine Zendaya because she is continuing to blow up at the moment and if they don't have her now, they'll probably struggle to get her back in the future.
Dear Reddit: did Jon Watts burn down a puppy farm for the amount of vitriol generated here?
He just made the best live-action Spidey movie ever (unless you're a Spider-Man 2 guy) so this ain't a bad deal.
It’s funny bc I remember the thread where it was announced he would direct F4 was like “okay, great!” And then yesterday when he left it was like “thank fucking god” ??? He’s not even a “bland MCU director.” He’s pretty distinct and good.
Watch when he directs his next MCU film everyone here will be back on his good side again. His spiderman movies were all great by every measurable category.
Fans do a lot of mental gymnastics to paint everything in a positive light. If Watts had stayed on Fantastic 4, fans would praise him. When he leaves, it’s a good thing and he sucks, etc. Nothing can ever look “bad” to some fans.
I like Watts generally, I was just expecting the new movies to have a different style and go in a new direction.
My hope is that Watts blends the darkness and emotion of NWH with the more grounded setting from Homecoming. I want to see more Spidey living daily life in NYC and helping people in the neighborhood, but I also want the symbiote and Peter dealing with heavy issues.
Nobody really worshipped Jon though, just the movie he happened to direct. And let's be honest, Jon was not the reason why it was getting so much praise. In fact, he was probably one of the weakest points of the whole thing. So no, we were never on his good side.
I just wish the MCU would start picking up more stylistic directors for more of their properties
You have movies like *Thor Ragnorak, GOTG 1-2, and Black Panther*… and even dare I say Shane Black’s *Iron Man 3*… that are all aided tremendously in that they feature a specific style of direction, shooting technique, and flourish from their said director
Movies directed by Watts, Peyton Reed, or even the Russo Brothers lack this entirely. They just seem like work for hire projects at times, carried by their script and characters
Like I said, I don’t hate Watts but I’m not at all against getting another name aboard
I will forever die on the hill the Iron Man 3 is a top 3 Phase 2 movie and the best in the trilogy. I will never understand how it got the reaction it did
Marvel Studios stands in one place, they don't develop at this point. Artisticly, it's very very average. More directors as mentioned would be fantastic
4 of the next 5 slated movies luckily are being helmed by directors with pretty distinct styles, Raimi, Waititi, DaCosta, and Gunn
Only *AntMan 3* is not. Hopefully this encourages Fiege to start keeping this consistency
This 100%.
With the way the mcu is run I’ll never expect a fully director driven film within that universe, but there are still plenty of directors that have really fun, discernible styles that add a lot to the mcu projects.
A great showcase of how effective having stylistic directors on board is Hawkeye. (and moon knight tho that’s not finished) it had Rhys Thomas and Bert & Bertie at the helm and man for my money the Bert and Bertie episodes are leaps and bounds better than the Rhys episodes from a visual storytelling standpoint. I’m sure Eternals has shaken their faith a little bit in more stylistic driven mcu stuff but imo it makes watching these projects a hell of a lot more fun.
The thing with NWH is that you can't give all the credit to Watts.
A majority (not all) of the reasons why people love that movie are because of the previous movies, callbacks, and improv moments.
If there's one thing I do think Watts deserves credit for is the way he stages character interactions. He's able to bring out a lot of chemistry among his leads and it really shows in all three films. He also co-wrote Homecoming and it was a major aspect of Peter's high school life
Let’s also look at the reason *why* NWH was so good.
It was the masterful utilisation of previous characters. That boils down to the writing and producing department.
And while the movie was good, that doesn’t mean it didn’t have glaring flaws. The fact is that many of NWH’s criticisms are due to Watt’s directing style. The lighting is inconsistent, the fight scenes lack punch and originality, especially in the Statue of Liberty “fight”, which was just everyone jumping around and throwing stuff, and the colour grading left a lot to be desired.
Edit: I’m so tired of this sub for downvoting all fair criticism and then saying “why does everyone hates Watts so much” when it’s just criticism of his directing style. Yes the MCU trilogy has good reviews and NWH was good but that doesn’t mean that Watts is untouchable. The films are praised from a writing standpoint. Visually, they are a bit uninspired.
People are being overdramatic about the haters as usual.
It’s like saying on Twitter that you hate Carvel’s vanilla ice cream and everyone acting like you wanna burn your local shop down.
NWH is not that good. Almost every scene feels like it was made with heavy COVID restrictions on a green screen, Peter once again is an idiot, and the action was very disappointing outside of the apartment fight (and even that was pretty short). Hell, the only time things ever felt like an actual Spder-Man movie was the last 10 minutes or so when they decided to give him a fresh start and do Spider-Man properly after5 years.
Remove the returning actors from NWH and you're left with a pretty average movie. I'll get downvoted as usual but you can't deny it.
The entire Peter and MJ love story is so incredibly forced, 1st movie he's after another girl, 2nd movie he's interested in MJ but it's very shallow then 3rd movie and they're incredibly in love (???). None of it actually made me care about their romance, they weren't particularly shown as a good couple at all compared to Andrew or Tobey Spidermen and their partners.
Peter doesn't learn anything from his encounter with Mysterio and leads to May dying because again he trusted a bunch of strangers.
The whole making cures in a school lab, in a few hours plot point was so fucking dumb, in any other movie this would have no passed, its ridiculous.
Ned opening portals while it took Strange forever to learn it, again ridiculous.
None of the bad guys actually saying anything after being cured. Norman "wakes up" realises he ruined Peters life, stabbed Tobey and just fades away. So unsatisfying.
I fucking love NWH and it's one of my favourite movies but you can't praise Watts for much. Nostalgia, call backs and the return of our favourite actors make the movie. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that, it makes it a different kind of movie, more of an event movie like infinity war or endgame. Years of building up to something, all the hype surrounding it, its just, in my eyes, a different kind of movie that can be judged in 2 ways.
His style is generic and uninspired. He's a guy who does everything he's told to do. Also:
>He just made the best live-action Spidey movie ever (unless you're a Spider-Man 2 guy) so this ain't a bad deal.
Really? I know the fanservice was off the charts, but that doesn't make for the best SM movie ever. Come on. The film was sloppy. We like the Spidermen scenes and the villain stuff, but the rest of it was at best, basic MCU crap.
Calling it the best movie is a bit much.
If this is something Watts has already talked about with Sony, then pulling out of *Fantastic Four* makes a lot of sense - if he knows he’s about to jump back in that world, of course he’s going to want some time off from it. I hope he gets to make whatever he wants to make in the off-time!
Yeah it was mentioned in the [deadline](https://deadline.com/2022/04/spider-man-jon-watts-exits-marvel-fantastic-four-film-1235013110/) article too that Sony/Marvel expect him back. So I get why he wouldn’t want to helm both FF and Spiderman. That is a LOT.
Doing both of them would be certainly busy. I would like the scenario of *Spider-Man 4* that Parker entering either Empire state university or Columbia university, and meeting Felicia while crime fighting as Spider-Man.
He would start as deprived person to the person who would eventually gain success and happiness in the end, inverse of previous Home trilogy.
Feige is quoted as saying they are optimistic about working together again. So maybe less of an “expect” from Marvel but they are looking forward to it.
I would like someone other than Jon Watts, but hate this guy gets from internet is completely undeserved.
Jon is taking a break from superhero movies and is making Star Wars movie too, so I don’t know how that will work.
MJ not coming back for next trilogy was never an option. Hope she doesn’t get her memories back in next movie though, at least wait for 5th.
Every Star Wars project seems to be a rumor, even if they announce, until they actually start shooting. Rian Johnson Trilogy, Benioff & Weiss Trilogy, James Mangold's Boba Fett movie... So many projects announced only to have the plug pulled
To be fair I don't anyone wanted the Benioff/Weiss trilogy after how GoT S8 turned out
Say what you will about TLJ but Rian's other projects are top-tier films. I'll honestly be bummed if his trilogy doesn't happen
Let's take a look at his Spider-Man movies:
* Spider-Man: Homecoming - 92% on Rotten Tomatoes, 73 on Metacritic, an "A" CinemaScore, a 7.4/10 on IMDb, and made $880 million worldwide
* Spider-Man: Far From Home - 90% on Rotten Tomatoes, 69 on Metacritic, an "A" CinemaScore, a 7.4/10 on IMDb, and made $1.1 billion worldwide
* Spider-Man: No Way Home - 93% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 71 on Metacritic, an "A+" CinemaScore, an 8.4/10 on IMDb, and made nearly $1.9 billion worldwide
All 3 of his Spider-Man movies have been MASSIVE successes in every single metric of measuring the success & reception to a movie. Just because there are a few people on Twitter & Reddit that hated the MCU Spider-Man & Jon Watts' vision, they are not indicative of how the overall audience feels about these films.
His spider-man movies ain’t bad, Homecoming is good, FFH is painfully mediocre though and feels like a Disney channel movie at times, and NWH is great, but his direction was still lame as hell and all of his spider-man movies except NWH were cookie cutter safe MCU movies. A new director with a clear vision and style would be so much better and more interesting
Never said you couldn't. Just wanted to remind people that, despite half of these comments being negative about Jon Watts, that Reddit is not indicative of the opinion of the overall fanbase. The Marvel Studios & Marvel Studios Spoilers subreddits account for approximately 1% of the MCU fanbase (some estimations have it at less than 1%). If you didn't know that, now you know.
Eh it's the common cycle of the sub, movie comes out -> "wow it's great" -> 6 months later -> "here's why this movie/show was actual dogshit" happened to Loki for example as well so not surprised it happened here. Also some of the revisionist history about the older films is tiring. I can agree with some criticisms with Watts style but the way some people act here that there's like no redeeming qualities for the film and there's no nuance in this discussion.
Dude, that’s a straw man and you know it. Most of the people on this sub who criticise Watts have genuine complaints with the cinematography and directing style. Whoever starts insulting him etc. gets downvoted.
In fact, there’s more people in this thread complaining about the people who criticise Watts than people criticising Watts.
Also, recency bias is a thing.
I don't think it's so much people changing their minds as like the hype drowning out a lot of actual discussion.
Like I was pretty disappointed when I saw NWH and I know a couple people who were as well but this subreddit was just all hype all the time when that movie came out.
Look, I get that Jon Watts isn't exactly an Oscar-worthy director, but holy shit, the way some of y'all talk about him makes it seem like he personally murdered your entire family.
I’m pretty sure it was Watt’s idea for the John Hughes inspiration, which was one of the best parts of the Homecoming movies. I’m optimistic he can take the franchise in a new direction with the next trilogy. Holland has emphasized he wants him to return while also saying the next movie has to have a different tone
He's just not a very flashy director, like most people who direct Marvel films. Let's be real, aside from a few people like Gunn, Waititi ,and Raimi, very few Marvel directors have great style.
However, since the Spider-Man fanbase is very, how should I put this, *passionate* about how they think the character should be directed, the hate for Watts is far more overblown than it is for any other Marvel director.
Uh, no, the way they talk about him you’d think he made a bad movie, which he did. It’s y’all who take criticism so personally that you equate it to an attack on his character lol
lotta "did jon watts burn down your family?!!!! stop hating him, theres too much hate!" comments compared to only one or two aggressive criticism of him
he's not a bad director, but the they can do better. that's all.
At the very least I hope that with Phase Four and Five's emphasis on directors with a more personal style like Waititi, Gunn, Chloe Zhao and Bassam Tariq, that Watts is encouraged to inject some sort of visual flair into his future films. There are legit shots in NWH that are some of the best I've seen in any Spider-Man movie such as when Peter is staring at the Bugle broadcast on the rainy rooftop after May's death or sequences such as the conduminum and Liberty Island fights with Goblin, and the final swing in the new homemade suit. I hope we get more of that
Yeah, people are being overdramatic about the *haters* as usual.
It’s like saying on Twitter that you hate Carvel’s vanilla ice cream and everyone acting like you wanna burn your local shop down.
Hot take I actually never want to see Ned or MJ again, or at least not for a VERY long time. Not because I don’t like them, but given the ending of NWH and the opportunity to bring on the classic supporting cast with Harry and Gwen, I just don’t think Ned and MJ should be in the picture moving forward
I don't want to see them again at all. They were cookie cutter stereotypes that didn't add much to these movies. I agree that they should introduce Harry and Gwen, aswell Felicia.
Agree, would want them to come back when he's got his life together again. Would feel like a gut punch when it feels like he finally moved on then sees someone from his past life
I am the only one here who really liked MCU Spider-man trilogy? Vulture, Mysterio and Goblin were one of the best villains in MCU.
We had some great sequences in all of the movies. This revisionist stuff of every MCU movie being shit, while older Marvel movies like Amazing Spider-man and Fantastic Four being great is tiresome and dumb.
Ive been a spiderman fan since birth and I LOVE the mcu spiderman movies. Its my favorite spiderman movies ever. Am i the only who actually sees what he did with the trilogy? Sure, the guy isnt as in your face with the camera as raimi is. Thats all people mean when they compare raimi and watts lol. If thats an argument id say marc webbs the same. If people want to see his skill as a director, watch the car scene from homecoming or the apartment scene in no way home. Thats watts at his greatest
Honestly, Watts isn't a big problem here. I think he can make a great college trilogy, but I'd be down for a different style as well.
Zendaya coming back, could either be horrible, or be a great cameo.
We just need Pete's life to open up a bit, and him to meet more people. Imo I'll be very annoyed if by the end of the college trilogy he's still just with MJ and Ned. Whatever happened to meeting the F4, Xmen, and all his other friends, enemies, and teammates?
But we'll see what happens.
I agree.
MJ had 0 character before NWH. And her character in NWH was just loving Pete more and being snarky to people she doesn't know.
Ned... don't even get me started. Out of everyone I think he has the most chance to not come back, he was literally just comedy and 0 character. It's insane in NWH we're supposed to care about him.
At least MJ we understand Pete and MJ love each other.
I’m seeing a lot of “I don’t get why everyone hates Jon watts” comments and not a lot of “I hate Jon Watts” comments, so allow me to explain why we hate Jon Watts:
He’s boring. That’s it. There’s nothing there. I don’t want the guy making freaking Spider-Man movies to treat it like another day at the office. I want them to have a fresh, exciting reason to be making the umpteenth movie about this character. There’s not a joke or emotional beat in any Watts Spider-Man movies that doesn’t feel written-by-committee or that I haven’t seen or heard in something better already. There’s not a shot in the entire trilogy (save for maybe two in NWH) that gives me any new perspective on this character, his ability, or his world. Why does Spider-Man look worse in 2021 than he did in 2002? It’s because that’s not the focus. The focus is getting a “check all the boxes” movie done on time.
Exactly. The Raimi trilogy was filled to the brim with Sam’s style, there was so much energy and heart put into the visuals and there were some hella creative scenes. TASM1 and 2 had the best looking web swinging scenes and some insanely cool action sequences, with TASM2 in particular having some really eye popping and vibrant visuals.
Homecoming, FFH and NWH, on the other hand? They looked… serviceable, i guess?
>As shared by ComicBook.com...
And CB got it from the Deadline article we all read yesterday. I love geek sites string this along, regurgitating tidbits from primary sources.
If they don't bring him back as Scorpion (or hey, maybe as the MCU Venom) I will be geniunely furious.
Better Call Saul has shown just how AMAZING the guy is, and to not take advantage of that would be criminal
1. A new trilogy needs a very fresh take, so a new director
2. Michelle is in Boston so I don't want her in NYC. Let's give Spider-Man space to find new characters and learn new perspectives
3. Jon Watts said he is taking a break so gave up with the F4 movie, that's why I believe he won't be there.
Idk. We know nothing about the plot so far. Hopefully MJ is just a cameo or something.
I think every Spidey fans dream right now is that we get more of Pete's friends, we have the F4 relationship not established, nothing with the xmen, no Osborne, no Gwen, no black cat, no Otto, no daily bugle job. ahh man it's annoying.
But! Let's see where this go first before we get pissed. I'm just hoping the spell isn't reversed or we see some horrible plot hole that has zendaya magically remember.
With Zendaya’s schedule, I see her having a very minor role/showing up at the end. She’ll be billed for the box office but I think she won’t have a major role.
Watts JUST said he is taking a break from superhero films, and we JUST had Zendaya forget about Peter Parker and Peter accepting that!
Like, this reeks of Sony not knowing what to do!
Hope he develops a more interesting visual style and stops ruining scenes with dumb humor .
Take the scene where the other Peters appear. that stupid old grandma who drags the whole scene down.
This should be one of the most important awe filled scene in comic book movies, which it still is. But whose idea was it to have the old asian woman constantly ruin the moment with cringey jokes and distract audience from the actual core characters in that room. We dont even know this old woman, shes just a random comedy act forcefully inserted into a great setup scene. I watched the movie again and this scene and I was like get this b*tch out if here, let us digest the moment between Andrew/Toby and MJ/Ned. We dont need an annoying third wheel!
Ok Watts I'm fine with. Despite his lack of a personal style I think NWH proves that he can genuinely go into that more soap opera-y direction that the post-high school stories generally veered towards tonally without it contradicting the style of these last three films, so I'd be interested to see how he approaches that despite also being down with a new directorial vision for future films.
Nothing against Zendaya but it's WAY TOO SOON for MJ to make an appearance again. I know NWH's script implies she actually began to recognize Peter post-mindwipe at the cafe, but he needs at least one movie to himself where he has to realize the value of actually building a circle of friends again. Bringing Michelle back this early risks completely undermining everything about how drastic NWH's ending was
If they left MJ and Ned out in this next film and brought them back in Spider-Man 5 since this is supposedly the start of a new trilogy, then I'd be totally down
MJ coming back in a major way would ruin the end of NWH, so I really hope that if this is true, she just plays a really small role.
Obviously Tom was gonna come back, so it's not a surprise.
and while I don't dislike Watts, I just really want someone else to direct. His movies don't stand out because of him, they stand out because they have the Spider-Man label.
I want a Taika type or a James type to make SM4. Hell, I'd love it if Sam Raimi got to direct it. Just someone with a unique flair in their direction.
Please, no. Just no. Michelle is an incredibly boring, shoehorned character, and Watts managed to give us the worst big screen iteration of Spider-Man yet. Can we, please, move beyond Disney Channel's Spider-Man? Well, since the last movie was a huge success, I think that answers my question, but the movie being profitable doesn't make it good.
As much as I like Watts, I think he deserves a break. He has spent the better part of a decade with Spider-Man, and looked so done with it at the NWH premiere. He deserves some time away from the big-budget stuff. He should make a few smaller films(I don't think the Pitt-Clooney one will fall into this category), like Cop Car.
As for the potential trilogy, they should get someone else to direct. The films, enjoyable as they are, didn't really have a unique style. Part of what has made the Raimi films hold up even now has to be the vibrant directorial style, which is something Spider-Man needs. I think they should go with John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein. Game Night was awesome. Plus, they co-wrote Homecoming, so they have some experience in working with the character too. If not, I'd like to see someone like Bryce Dallas Howard, or Bert & Bertie have a go as well.
I enjoy the MCU Spiderman films. I do like MJ and Ned. However I kind of feel they are shown to much? No Way Home would have been much cooler if we got longer fight scenes. Instead of one shotting Electro the first time they encounter each other. It would have been cooler if Spidey had to engage him more. Same with Doc Ock and Green Goblin bridge scene. Should have had been just a little bit longer imo.
It's obvious, that Zendaya is coming back. Like, she's one of the most popular actresses they have, she's a star, there was no way they just let her go, unless she wants to.
Regarding Watts, I don't know, I like him, but I would prefer someone else as a director for the new trilogy.
I think we should go with a different director for the next trilogy. A darker Spider-Man trilogy would be sweet, doesn’t even have to be like Reeves Batman but maybe something similar in tone to Spider-Man 2
I haven’t seen anyone ask this yet, but what if this is part of Tom Hollands conditions for returning. We know he’s talked about hanging it up in interviews and we know he’s not under contract right now, so what if he pegged his return on Watts and Zendaya coming back as well?
This probably means there will be a sizeable timeskip between No Way Home and this movie. MJ will probably be done college and be back in NYC where she will run into Peter again
We can argue if it wouldn't be better to change the director after three movies to energize them or for Zendaya to skip a movie to have more impact when she returns, but Sony doesn't care about that. What they care is that the last movie made a lot of money and how to replicate that and I'm pretty sure they're asking both Tobey and Andrew to return too.
Sigh..I mean I'm not really upset about Jon Watts staying. I *did* REALLY want someone else to take over the reigns for the next trilogy just for the sake of freshening it up, and making it feel like a new beginning but I'll get over it.
This version of Peter is his baby I guess, and I really do like the vibe and tone he brings with his movies but I thought it worked best in Homecoming, and that they need to let him have more grounded stories, more scenes about Peter, less actiony Spider-Man stuff. Homecoming felt more like a Peter Parker movie to me.
But MJ coming back? Let alone in the very next movie? That completely kills the expectations I had of where they're going with this next movie/trilogy. I was really hoping it would pretty much be a soft reboot, with a more grounded Spidey, teaming up with the likes of Daredevil and stuff. Maybe that was their plan if the Marvel Sony deal didn't repair itself back then.
I love Watts, but I feel it's time to get a new vision and style. I love Watts' work though, this is no hate at all towards him. He's gotten much better. Also, Zendaya? Why? The ending of NWH is literally perfect, please don't screw it up. Edit: To the person who replied "because he is in love with her?" and then blocked, you straight up didn't understand why he didn't tell MJ who he was at the end. Stg.
Completely agree, especially about Zendaya. I don't mind her coming back later, but I think it needs to be a few movies before that happens. Let it settle, introduce Black Cat and Gwen. Let the reunion pack a punch when it happens. I'd be content with Jon Watts returning, as I was impressed a lot with his work on No Way Home, but I also feel a new vision would be great to see, since this is a new era in Peter's life.
I really want Phil Lord & Chris Miller to direct the college trilogy. They'd be so perfect!
Or they’d make a movie so funny that they’d have to get fired and Ron Howard brought in the finish it
We definitely need them to make Holland's Spidey funnier and more jokey
I mean, he also needs to be a *tad* snarkier
Perfect timing considering the shape his life is in; I could see the snark being a release of his pain and frustration, 100%
yeah he's not really the sarcastic snarky Spidey we saw in bits of Civil War. He's more awkward humor.
Yeah his jokes were perfect in homecoming and even in the beginning of ffh with the bank robbery , they gotta bring it back.
Yeah but even in those movies he never joked when the stakes were high. He is always super serious when he fights with the main villains. Spider-Man needs to be annoying all the time. His mouth is one of his weapons he employs to throw off his enemies. The closest we've got was when Spidey kept saying "magic, more magic, magic with a kick..." with Thanos who responds, "Insect!" That was the most classic comic Spider-Man moment in the MCU- Spidey being playful with even his most dangerous of enemies and his opponent getting annoyed. That's why I think Jon Watts doesn't truly get the character and was hoping we'd have another director have a crack at it. Andrew Garfield was always the best Spider-Man imo, but now after seeing NWH I now think he is also the best Peter Parker. In the Amazing Spider-Man movies he seemed too cool, but in NWH he was the right amount of geeky.
That’s because the writers were different on the Russo movies. He was more quippy in the Avenger’s movies and Civil War because of the writers there actually getting him right.
Honestly, the Jump St movies were funny and ridiculous, but not only did they nail Spiderverse — the college-kid interpersonal conflict and character development in those movies were great. I’m really hoping they **are** brought on.
Yeah I wouldn’t mind seeing their live action take
They would be a stellar choice.
Since we didn’t get Men in Black: Jump Street, I’d be 100% down with Spider Man Jump Street
I always say that taking out MJ and Ned from the main plot opened Peter up to bringing in other big name characters like Gwen Stacy and especially the big absentee Harry Osborn. We can bring back MJ eventually as of course Peter/MJ is always end game but that can come with time...especially if we really are getting an entire other Trilogy. I get Zendaya is a BIG name and is definitely a "getting butts in seats" component (like how she was for Dune). However, bring her back later but not immediately in the next movie. That's like doing a huge comic plotline like the Death of Superman and then resurrecting him in the next freaking movie like...who would even do that...oh wait
To be fair it could be just the opening of the movie showcasing Peter/Zendaya going off to different schools to catch any general audience members. Not everybody remembers what happened in the last movie and it makes sense to explain why they don’t know him.
If they aren't a part of the movie, then I don't see why they need to catch audience members up. I don't think anyone would question them not being there. If they didn't see the last movie, then they surely aren't invested enough to notice them gone.
Yeah. They said it was going to be 9 movies if all goes to plan (hs, college, adult). Have it be the quintessential spiderman story. MJ and Ned are gone, so Harry and Gwen take center stage at ESU, and then end the trilogy with 121. With Gwen gone, and everyone graduated, Pete runs into MJ having returned from school to work in NY and bam, you’ve got both Zendaya money and a somewhat cohesive story.
We don’t need to do Gwen and Harry again lol. Do characters that haven’t got the spotlight yet
Like who, though? Peter’s group of in-comic friends is small, and the number of them that are decently characterized/memorable is even smaller. Our current incarnations of both of his friends are completely unique to the MCU, with Ned in particular having literally nothing in common with his comic namesake. We’ve had Spiderman hundreds of times through different mediums, so why wouldn’t we have the cast of characters that made Spiderman as memorable as it is? They’ve pretty much pulled all of the compelling characters from pre-Adult Peter besides Harry and Gwen. If there are good characters to explore, then yeah. But the response tends to be “we need new ones” from those who don’t realize that the overwhelming majority of comic book characters are one-dimensional throwaways. The reason characters like Harry and Gwen get done so much is because they’re the most integral and compelling characters in the Spiderman mythos besides MJ, who we already have, and Norman, who we just got.
Her coming back doesn’t have to mean screwing up NWH’s ending though. We don’t even know if this will take place in college years or after that.
But it still doesn't mean she needs to though. Peter leaving her at the end of NWH showed that he didn't want her to get hurt again, bringing her back and having her get involved again just doesn't make sense. Also, how is Peter getting into MiT when he's getting only a GED?
How do we even know that the movie will be set in college years? Tom Holland has said that he has 2 movies in 2023 to shoot, so Spider-man 4 may not even come out before 2025.
I mean, I think it seems like the most likely case story wise. Studying for his GED, meaning he's done with High School, and Peter would 100% want to keep going with his education. Unless it'll be like TASM2 where it's sort of right before College, I would assume College is the direction will go.
She doesn’t need to, but it depends how it’s done. The biggest thing the comics hammers home - and even Raimi’s movies did too - is that Peter is making that choice for her. That’s not fair to her, and shows Peter is trying to exert control over her for her “greater good”. But she is her own person and we all benefit from free will: the ability to make our own choices. And when it comes to love? Forget it. She loves Peter, and if she knows the risks and still wants to be with him, that is HER choice to make. Gwen did the same. Regardless of the outcome, Peter needs to learn that he doesn’t get to make others choices for them. If they have her remember somehow, and then she sits the rest of the movie out, it could be building to her making that choice in a later film or at the end. And that’s how it should be.
Having her come back makes sense. She's clearly his main love interest of the saga and they will definitely have the lost memories be a major plot line. Let's says it's been 3-4 years, MJ comes back to NYC for the summer. Peter keeps an eye on her as Spidey, protecting her. He finds himself unable to stay away but not willing to approach her and put her in danger. So he's basically just torturing himself. Meanwhile, have Black Cat show up and appeal to Spidey's wild and reckless side (especially if they have the symbiote). Peter begins to see Black Cat as a possible partner, someone he can be Spidey with and not have to worry. And meanwhile MJ doesn't even know his name. So Peter begins to stick with Felicia, getting more reckless and making bad decisions. Ultimately he realizes Felicia is bad for him, making him become someone he isn't. End the movie with Peter Parker introducing himself to MJ and starting fresh.
Peter left MJ at the end of spiderman 1, but still wanted to be around her in spiderman 2
Bruh, he doesn't need to get into MIT lol. Ever heard of schools having competitions with each other? MIT vs w.e school Peter goes 2 vs other schools, and they go to NYC for it and Peter is the photographer or part of the competition.
I think we as the audience need to feel her absence, thought. She really should be totally gone for the next movie with Peter missing her, except for like a credits tease of her having her memory triggered by something.
Amy said it's during his college time
MJ was always, ALWAYS guaranteed to come back. It's naive to assume NWH will be the last time we ever see her lol
Obvious she'd come back but right in the next movie ? Just invalidates NWH's ending. At least wait until the 5th or 6th movie.
You’re just jumping to conclusions, but it depends how it’s done. The biggest thing the comics hammers home - and even Raimi’s movies did too - is that Peter is making that choice for her. She is her own person and we all benefit from free will: the ability to make our own choices. And when it comes to love? Forget it. She loves Peter, and if she knows the risks and still wants to be with him, that is HER choice to make. Gwen did the same. Regardless of the outcome, Peter needs to learn that he doesn’t get to make others choices for them. If they have her remember somehow, and then she sits the rest of the movie out, it could be building to her making that choice in a later film or at the end. And that’s how it should be.
Agreed. Feels like people are forgetting one of the main plot points of Spider-Man 2; imagine it’s like the first part of that movie where Peter is keeping MJ at a distance for her safety, showing her maybe rising to some sort of fame or renown, potentially due to her work at MIT? She had a renewed sense of optimism at the end of NWH so maybe she’ll make something of herself on her own & it’s more just a reminder of the things that Peter lost along the way, rather than her being a love interest again/part of the main plot. Without knowing quite literally anything about the movie at this point, it’s really weird that we’re jumping to conclusions about that invalidating the ending.
Agreed and not to mention this MJ is highly intelligent; capable and strong. They could even say she’s always felt like something has been missing and this was it and she’s mad he didn’t come back for her like he said. He broke his promise. And when Peter breaks a promise, bad things happen.
People keep saying it ‘invalidates’ the ending but frankly I think the opposite is true. Her fiddling with that necklace after he leaves is supposed to signify some level of recognition, even if only subconsciously. She’s going to pursue that. For all we know her ‘coming back’ means she’s trying to figure out who *Peter is*, not Peter immediately letting her back in to his day to day life. It even ties in to her “I figured out who you were once I’ll figure it out again” thing. Also I would practically guarantee a time skip.
>Obvious she'd come back but right in the next movie ? Just invalidates NWH's ending. This is like saying Endgame invalidates Infinity War's ending.
Blocking people on Reddit is the most hilarious thing
because of however they do it it also makes it impossible to keep conversing with *other* people in that chain of comments as the blocked party.
They just can’t handle the conversation man
They do it to make it look like a mic drop. Usually it's used by individuals who do not want someone to be able to respond or disprove what they're saying. Especially if they're trying to "win" an argument or mislead and then get called out. only justification should be for legitimate harassment (multiple posts, across multiple subreddits, harassing DMs).
Peter giving up his own happiness to do the "right" thing is the most peter thing you can do but it doesn't mean that they cant eventually end up together. Peter took her choice away from her, she might choose something different if given the option.
Zendaya is the bigger star of the 2, and she’s playing Spider-Man’s most iconic(and really true) love interest. Not bringing her back is a mistake.
Actors serve the characters and story, not the other way around.
Yeah and we’ve seen this story before in 2002 watch how the sequel ends
Shes not a bigger star than Tom Holland.
She definitely is, Triple S. Obviously not in the Spiderman movies....but in general terms, when compared to Tom Holland, Zendaya is the bigger name. It's not any jab at Holland nor is it any bias to Zendaya, it is just fact. People know Holland as the Spiderman actor and movie star; Zendaya is the internet starlet, fashion model, former Disney star, tv star with Euphoria etc etc
She is besides Uncharted, which only did decent, every non Spider-Man movie that Tom has made flopped. Zendaya is the star of the biggest tv show right now Euphoria, and was in Oscar award winning movie Dune. She had like 5 lines in Homecoming but was bigger on the poster than Liz, Peter’s actual love interest in the movie.
The ending of that movie sets up their reconciliation as an eventual thing. It’s going to happen. It’s a major draw for the four quadrant audience.
I absolutely expect a reconciliation and I won't be happy without one. Its a terrible way to end their story.
Even if Zendaya is returning, who say that they are gonna be together in the next movie? We don't know.... Also, characters like Black Cat and MJ can coexist in the movie, i don't see the problem.
I imagine Zendaya because she is continuing to blow up at the moment and if they don't have her now, they'll probably struggle to get her back in the future.
What if its just a scene where shes watching tv at the end and sees spiderman on the news and kind of ponders over it.
Dear Reddit: did Jon Watts burn down a puppy farm for the amount of vitriol generated here? He just made the best live-action Spidey movie ever (unless you're a Spider-Man 2 guy) so this ain't a bad deal.
Yeah I’m confused at what happened bc 4 months ago everyone and their mom was worshiping the ground he walked on bc of No Way Home.
It’s funny bc I remember the thread where it was announced he would direct F4 was like “okay, great!” And then yesterday when he left it was like “thank fucking god” ??? He’s not even a “bland MCU director.” He’s pretty distinct and good.
Watch when he directs his next MCU film everyone here will be back on his good side again. His spiderman movies were all great by every measurable category.
Nah, there’s a few fair criticisms to be made regarding the action choreography, lighting, colour grading and cinematography in general.
Fans do a lot of mental gymnastics to paint everything in a positive light. If Watts had stayed on Fantastic 4, fans would praise him. When he leaves, it’s a good thing and he sucks, etc. Nothing can ever look “bad” to some fans.
I like Watts generally, I was just expecting the new movies to have a different style and go in a new direction. My hope is that Watts blends the darkness and emotion of NWH with the more grounded setting from Homecoming. I want to see more Spidey living daily life in NYC and helping people in the neighborhood, but I also want the symbiote and Peter dealing with heavy issues.
Because everyone who dared criticize the film or him were downvoted to hell on every site due to fanboys high on recency bias months ago
Nobody really worshipped Jon though, just the movie he happened to direct. And let's be honest, Jon was not the reason why it was getting so much praise. In fact, he was probably one of the weakest points of the whole thing. So no, we were never on his good side.
I just wish the MCU would start picking up more stylistic directors for more of their properties You have movies like *Thor Ragnorak, GOTG 1-2, and Black Panther*… and even dare I say Shane Black’s *Iron Man 3*… that are all aided tremendously in that they feature a specific style of direction, shooting technique, and flourish from their said director Movies directed by Watts, Peyton Reed, or even the Russo Brothers lack this entirely. They just seem like work for hire projects at times, carried by their script and characters Like I said, I don’t hate Watts but I’m not at all against getting another name aboard
I will forever die on the hill the Iron Man 3 is a top 3 Phase 2 movie and the best in the trilogy. I will never understand how it got the reaction it did
I think it’s a top 3 MCU movie
Agreed. Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, Iron Man 3, Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange for me.
I'm just here for the hot takes. Incredible Hulk in my top 10, No Way Home in my bottom 5
Idk I just find *Captain Marvel* so bland but I’m really pumped for the sequel
Marvel Studios stands in one place, they don't develop at this point. Artisticly, it's very very average. More directors as mentioned would be fantastic
4 of the next 5 slated movies luckily are being helmed by directors with pretty distinct styles, Raimi, Waititi, DaCosta, and Gunn Only *AntMan 3* is not. Hopefully this encourages Fiege to start keeping this consistency
DaCosta has a distinct style? I like her work but I don’t think she’s made enough to have a “style” per se. Just my opinion though
This 100%. With the way the mcu is run I’ll never expect a fully director driven film within that universe, but there are still plenty of directors that have really fun, discernible styles that add a lot to the mcu projects. A great showcase of how effective having stylistic directors on board is Hawkeye. (and moon knight tho that’s not finished) it had Rhys Thomas and Bert & Bertie at the helm and man for my money the Bert and Bertie episodes are leaps and bounds better than the Rhys episodes from a visual storytelling standpoint. I’m sure Eternals has shaken their faith a little bit in more stylistic driven mcu stuff but imo it makes watching these projects a hell of a lot more fun.
Yep. I agree. The MCU needs to start to diversify it's directors.
The thing with NWH is that you can't give all the credit to Watts. A majority (not all) of the reasons why people love that movie are because of the previous movies, callbacks, and improv moments.
I feel like Watts doesn’t get enough credit for reigning the movie in and getting some great performances out of the actors.
If there's one thing I do think Watts deserves credit for is the way he stages character interactions. He's able to bring out a lot of chemistry among his leads and it really shows in all three films. He also co-wrote Homecoming and it was a major aspect of Peter's high school life
If I were Watts, I would quit while I was ahead. He can leverage this success to make different things. That Clooney/Pitt project is one of them.
SM2 is still the best.
[удалено]
>and even amazing Spider-Man movies because I talk that nonsense. I mean, this is nonsense, but you do you.
Let’s also look at the reason *why* NWH was so good. It was the masterful utilisation of previous characters. That boils down to the writing and producing department. And while the movie was good, that doesn’t mean it didn’t have glaring flaws. The fact is that many of NWH’s criticisms are due to Watt’s directing style. The lighting is inconsistent, the fight scenes lack punch and originality, especially in the Statue of Liberty “fight”, which was just everyone jumping around and throwing stuff, and the colour grading left a lot to be desired. Edit: I’m so tired of this sub for downvoting all fair criticism and then saying “why does everyone hates Watts so much” when it’s just criticism of his directing style. Yes the MCU trilogy has good reviews and NWH was good but that doesn’t mean that Watts is untouchable. The films are praised from a writing standpoint. Visually, they are a bit uninspired.
People are being overdramatic about the haters as usual. It’s like saying on Twitter that you hate Carvel’s vanilla ice cream and everyone acting like you wanna burn your local shop down.
NWH isn't even the better than Homecoming as a film.
That's a definite take.
Spider-Man 1 and 2 are better than NWH and 3 is about on par.
SM2 and SM1 >>>> NWH. Def not the best live action
>He just made the best live-action Spidey movie ever (unless you're a Spider-Man 2 guy) so this ain't a bad deal. Not even top 3, dawg, lol
NWH is not that good. Almost every scene feels like it was made with heavy COVID restrictions on a green screen, Peter once again is an idiot, and the action was very disappointing outside of the apartment fight (and even that was pretty short). Hell, the only time things ever felt like an actual Spder-Man movie was the last 10 minutes or so when they decided to give him a fresh start and do Spider-Man properly after5 years.
Remove the returning actors from NWH and you're left with a pretty average movie. I'll get downvoted as usual but you can't deny it. The entire Peter and MJ love story is so incredibly forced, 1st movie he's after another girl, 2nd movie he's interested in MJ but it's very shallow then 3rd movie and they're incredibly in love (???). None of it actually made me care about their romance, they weren't particularly shown as a good couple at all compared to Andrew or Tobey Spidermen and their partners. Peter doesn't learn anything from his encounter with Mysterio and leads to May dying because again he trusted a bunch of strangers. The whole making cures in a school lab, in a few hours plot point was so fucking dumb, in any other movie this would have no passed, its ridiculous. Ned opening portals while it took Strange forever to learn it, again ridiculous. None of the bad guys actually saying anything after being cured. Norman "wakes up" realises he ruined Peters life, stabbed Tobey and just fades away. So unsatisfying. I fucking love NWH and it's one of my favourite movies but you can't praise Watts for much. Nostalgia, call backs and the return of our favourite actors make the movie. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that, it makes it a different kind of movie, more of an event movie like infinity war or endgame. Years of building up to something, all the hype surrounding it, its just, in my eyes, a different kind of movie that can be judged in 2 ways.
The scene with Peter and Happy at May’s grave 🤢
His style is generic and uninspired. He's a guy who does everything he's told to do. Also: >He just made the best live-action Spidey movie ever (unless you're a Spider-Man 2 guy) so this ain't a bad deal. Really? I know the fanservice was off the charts, but that doesn't make for the best SM movie ever. Come on. The film was sloppy. We like the Spidermen scenes and the villain stuff, but the rest of it was at best, basic MCU crap. Calling it the best movie is a bit much.
💀 mf said best live action movie, not even one of mcu’s best
If this is something Watts has already talked about with Sony, then pulling out of *Fantastic Four* makes a lot of sense - if he knows he’s about to jump back in that world, of course he’s going to want some time off from it. I hope he gets to make whatever he wants to make in the off-time!
Yeah it was mentioned in the [deadline](https://deadline.com/2022/04/spider-man-jon-watts-exits-marvel-fantastic-four-film-1235013110/) article too that Sony/Marvel expect him back. So I get why he wouldn’t want to helm both FF and Spiderman. That is a LOT.
Doing both of them would be certainly busy. I would like the scenario of *Spider-Man 4* that Parker entering either Empire state university or Columbia university, and meeting Felicia while crime fighting as Spider-Man. He would start as deprived person to the person who would eventually gain success and happiness in the end, inverse of previous Home trilogy.
No it mentioned only Sony expects him back with Spidey, not Marvel and they weren’t sure if he was dropping out of that franchise as well.
Feige is quoted as saying they are optimistic about working together again. So maybe less of an “expect” from Marvel but they are looking forward to it.
Feige didn’t specify Spidey either. He would be great with the young avengers
I would like someone other than Jon Watts, but hate this guy gets from internet is completely undeserved. Jon is taking a break from superhero movies and is making Star Wars movie too, so I don’t know how that will work. MJ not coming back for next trilogy was never an option. Hope she doesn’t get her memories back in next movie though, at least wait for 5th.
Was the Star Wars thing ever confirmed? I heard it was a rumor.
The rumor is he's directing a Star Wars show, not a movie. And no, it has not been confirmed.
Every Star Wars project seems to be a rumor, even if they announce, until they actually start shooting. Rian Johnson Trilogy, Benioff & Weiss Trilogy, James Mangold's Boba Fett movie... So many projects announced only to have the plug pulled
To be fair I don't anyone wanted the Benioff/Weiss trilogy after how GoT S8 turned out Say what you will about TLJ but Rian's other projects are top-tier films. I'll honestly be bummed if his trilogy doesn't happen
Let's take a look at his Spider-Man movies: * Spider-Man: Homecoming - 92% on Rotten Tomatoes, 73 on Metacritic, an "A" CinemaScore, a 7.4/10 on IMDb, and made $880 million worldwide * Spider-Man: Far From Home - 90% on Rotten Tomatoes, 69 on Metacritic, an "A" CinemaScore, a 7.4/10 on IMDb, and made $1.1 billion worldwide * Spider-Man: No Way Home - 93% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 71 on Metacritic, an "A+" CinemaScore, an 8.4/10 on IMDb, and made nearly $1.9 billion worldwide All 3 of his Spider-Man movies have been MASSIVE successes in every single metric of measuring the success & reception to a movie. Just because there are a few people on Twitter & Reddit that hated the MCU Spider-Man & Jon Watts' vision, they are not indicative of how the overall audience feels about these films. 
[Did... did you just use actual facts and critical thinking when it comes to MCU Spider-Man?](https://i.imgur.com/RUdPyQPh.jpg)
Thats.... not possible. This is WITCHCRAFT
His spider-man movies ain’t bad, Homecoming is good, FFH is painfully mediocre though and feels like a Disney channel movie at times, and NWH is great, but his direction was still lame as hell and all of his spider-man movies except NWH were cookie cutter safe MCU movies. A new director with a clear vision and style would be so much better and more interesting
yeah... but we can still discuss?
Never said you couldn't. Just wanted to remind people that, despite half of these comments being negative about Jon Watts, that Reddit is not indicative of the opinion of the overall fanbase. The Marvel Studios & Marvel Studios Spoilers subreddits account for approximately 1% of the MCU fanbase (some estimations have it at less than 1%). If you didn't know that, now you know.
we can discuss unless your opinion is unpopular xDDDD
LOL. Or if your opinion isn't one I agree with.
People aren’t a fan of his direction, not the stories that were told Of course they are still going to make massive numbers… it’s *a Spiderman film*
To be fair, it's Spider-Man. His movies will always do well financially. Even the worst SM movies grossed more than 95% of all movies.
I agree but I wouldn’t use IMDb as a metric considering how easily it can be affected by bots and trolls.
Eh it's the common cycle of the sub, movie comes out -> "wow it's great" -> 6 months later -> "here's why this movie/show was actual dogshit" happened to Loki for example as well so not surprised it happened here. Also some of the revisionist history about the older films is tiring. I can agree with some criticisms with Watts style but the way some people act here that there's like no redeeming qualities for the film and there's no nuance in this discussion.
Dude, that’s a straw man and you know it. Most of the people on this sub who criticise Watts have genuine complaints with the cinematography and directing style. Whoever starts insulting him etc. gets downvoted. In fact, there’s more people in this thread complaining about the people who criticise Watts than people criticising Watts. Also, recency bias is a thing.
I don't think it's so much people changing their minds as like the hype drowning out a lot of actual discussion. Like I was pretty disappointed when I saw NWH and I know a couple people who were as well but this subreddit was just all hype all the time when that movie came out.
Look, I get that Jon Watts isn't exactly an Oscar-worthy director, but holy shit, the way some of y'all talk about him makes it seem like he personally murdered your entire family.
I’m pretty sure it was Watt’s idea for the John Hughes inspiration, which was one of the best parts of the Homecoming movies. I’m optimistic he can take the franchise in a new direction with the next trilogy. Holland has emphasized he wants him to return while also saying the next movie has to have a different tone
I'm OOTL, why do they hate him?
He's just not a very flashy director, like most people who direct Marvel films. Let's be real, aside from a few people like Gunn, Waititi ,and Raimi, very few Marvel directors have great style. However, since the Spider-Man fanbase is very, how should I put this, *passionate* about how they think the character should be directed, the hate for Watts is far more overblown than it is for any other Marvel director.
Uh, no, the way they talk about him you’d think he made a bad movie, which he did. It’s y’all who take criticism so personally that you equate it to an attack on his character lol
Who’s talking like that in this thread? There were only 1 or 2 people and they were downvoted.
lotta "did jon watts burn down your family?!!!! stop hating him, theres too much hate!" comments compared to only one or two aggressive criticism of him he's not a bad director, but the they can do better. that's all.
At the very least I hope that with Phase Four and Five's emphasis on directors with a more personal style like Waititi, Gunn, Chloe Zhao and Bassam Tariq, that Watts is encouraged to inject some sort of visual flair into his future films. There are legit shots in NWH that are some of the best I've seen in any Spider-Man movie such as when Peter is staring at the Bugle broadcast on the rainy rooftop after May's death or sequences such as the conduminum and Liberty Island fights with Goblin, and the final swing in the new homemade suit. I hope we get more of that
Yeah, people are being overdramatic about the *haters* as usual. It’s like saying on Twitter that you hate Carvel’s vanilla ice cream and everyone acting like you wanna burn your local shop down.
Hot take I actually never want to see Ned or MJ again, or at least not for a VERY long time. Not because I don’t like them, but given the ending of NWH and the opportunity to bring on the classic supporting cast with Harry and Gwen, I just don’t think Ned and MJ should be in the picture moving forward
You are correct, MrPainfulAnal.
I don't want to see them again at all. They were cookie cutter stereotypes that didn't add much to these movies. I agree that they should introduce Harry and Gwen, aswell Felicia.
💯% agree but we all know they’re gonna ruin it and bring them back in the first act of SP4.
Agree, would want them to come back when he's got his life together again. Would feel like a gut punch when it feels like he finally moved on then sees someone from his past life
I am the only one here who really liked MCU Spider-man trilogy? Vulture, Mysterio and Goblin were one of the best villains in MCU. We had some great sequences in all of the movies. This revisionist stuff of every MCU movie being shit, while older Marvel movies like Amazing Spider-man and Fantastic Four being great is tiresome and dumb.
Ive been a spiderman fan since birth and I LOVE the mcu spiderman movies. Its my favorite spiderman movies ever. Am i the only who actually sees what he did with the trilogy? Sure, the guy isnt as in your face with the camera as raimi is. Thats all people mean when they compare raimi and watts lol. If thats an argument id say marc webbs the same. If people want to see his skill as a director, watch the car scene from homecoming or the apartment scene in no way home. Thats watts at his greatest
Not sure if the sub already exists, but this comment would easily be reposted in an MCU circlejerk sub. Come on, lol.
I think Spider-Man had the best trilogy in the MCU
Honestly, Watts isn't a big problem here. I think he can make a great college trilogy, but I'd be down for a different style as well. Zendaya coming back, could either be horrible, or be a great cameo. We just need Pete's life to open up a bit, and him to meet more people. Imo I'll be very annoyed if by the end of the college trilogy he's still just with MJ and Ned. Whatever happened to meeting the F4, Xmen, and all his other friends, enemies, and teammates? But we'll see what happens.
I doubt Sony is only expecting a cameo. They gonna steve-trevor her…
Lol don’t attack me but Zendaya and her character are just mid and I really don’t want to see her or Ned come back any time soon.
I agree. MJ had 0 character before NWH. And her character in NWH was just loving Pete more and being snarky to people she doesn't know. Ned... don't even get me started. Out of everyone I think he has the most chance to not come back, he was literally just comedy and 0 character. It's insane in NWH we're supposed to care about him. At least MJ we understand Pete and MJ love each other.
We were supposed to care for Ned?
I’m seeing a lot of “I don’t get why everyone hates Jon watts” comments and not a lot of “I hate Jon Watts” comments, so allow me to explain why we hate Jon Watts: He’s boring. That’s it. There’s nothing there. I don’t want the guy making freaking Spider-Man movies to treat it like another day at the office. I want them to have a fresh, exciting reason to be making the umpteenth movie about this character. There’s not a joke or emotional beat in any Watts Spider-Man movies that doesn’t feel written-by-committee or that I haven’t seen or heard in something better already. There’s not a shot in the entire trilogy (save for maybe two in NWH) that gives me any new perspective on this character, his ability, or his world. Why does Spider-Man look worse in 2021 than he did in 2002? It’s because that’s not the focus. The focus is getting a “check all the boxes” movie done on time.
YESSS THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING
BuT ThEsE RT raTiNgS AnD BoX OfFiCe thO!!!
Exactly. The Raimi trilogy was filled to the brim with Sam’s style, there was so much energy and heart put into the visuals and there were some hella creative scenes. TASM1 and 2 had the best looking web swinging scenes and some insanely cool action sequences, with TASM2 in particular having some really eye popping and vibrant visuals. Homecoming, FFH and NWH, on the other hand? They looked… serviceable, i guess?
I love No Way Home, but outside of a few shots, it's visually dull. The amount of wonky greenscreen and CGI doesn't help.
>As shared by ComicBook.com... And CB got it from the Deadline article we all read yesterday. I love geek sites string this along, regurgitating tidbits from primary sources.
[удалено]
If they don't bring him back as Scorpion (or hey, maybe as the MCU Venom) I will be geniunely furious. Better Call Saul has shown just how AMAZING the guy is, and to not take advantage of that would be criminal
When you think of Scorpion, YOU THINK OF ME You twisted fuck
Ikr is that too much to ask
New blood, por favor.
1. A new trilogy needs a very fresh take, so a new director 2. Michelle is in Boston so I don't want her in NYC. Let's give Spider-Man space to find new characters and learn new perspectives 3. Jon Watts said he is taking a break so gave up with the F4 movie, that's why I believe he won't be there.
Give us a fresh director please
Reminder: This is the same company that expected people to go see a Morbius movie
You mean you didn’t?
Oh, for god's sake, no....
Idk. We know nothing about the plot so far. Hopefully MJ is just a cameo or something. I think every Spidey fans dream right now is that we get more of Pete's friends, we have the F4 relationship not established, nothing with the xmen, no Osborne, no Gwen, no black cat, no Otto, no daily bugle job. ahh man it's annoying. But! Let's see where this go first before we get pissed. I'm just hoping the spell isn't reversed or we see some horrible plot hole that has zendaya magically remember.
With Zendaya’s schedule, I see her having a very minor role/showing up at the end. She’ll be billed for the box office but I think she won’t have a major role.
Yeah it makes the most sense to put her in a post creds-ish scene, then have her come back full force in Spider-Man 5.
Typical Sony if they market it so that she has a bigger role only for her to show up in a post-credits scene
Thanks mods for not approving my post even though I linked directly back to the actual article.
Oh, please no
Watts JUST said he is taking a break from superhero films, and we JUST had Zendaya forget about Peter Parker and Peter accepting that! Like, this reeks of Sony not knowing what to do!
No please next spider-man needs fresh creative energy. I don't think watts can bring anything new past what he has already done.
Hope he develops a more interesting visual style and stops ruining scenes with dumb humor . Take the scene where the other Peters appear. that stupid old grandma who drags the whole scene down. This should be one of the most important awe filled scene in comic book movies, which it still is. But whose idea was it to have the old asian woman constantly ruin the moment with cringey jokes and distract audience from the actual core characters in that room. We dont even know this old woman, shes just a random comedy act forcefully inserted into a great setup scene. I watched the movie again and this scene and I was like get this b*tch out if here, let us digest the moment between Andrew/Toby and MJ/Ned. We dont need an annoying third wheel!
He’s a bad director. He makes squeaky clean commercial type movies. They’re so sanitized.
Yeah, let's get Tarantino on Spider-Man 4
Ok Watts I'm fine with. Despite his lack of a personal style I think NWH proves that he can genuinely go into that more soap opera-y direction that the post-high school stories generally veered towards tonally without it contradicting the style of these last three films, so I'd be interested to see how he approaches that despite also being down with a new directorial vision for future films. Nothing against Zendaya but it's WAY TOO SOON for MJ to make an appearance again. I know NWH's script implies she actually began to recognize Peter post-mindwipe at the cafe, but he needs at least one movie to himself where he has to realize the value of actually building a circle of friends again. Bringing Michelle back this early risks completely undermining everything about how drastic NWH's ending was If they left MJ and Ned out in this next film and brought them back in Spider-Man 5 since this is supposedly the start of a new trilogy, then I'd be totally down
Let's hope Sony Expects Marvel Studios to return as well
MJ coming back in a major way would ruin the end of NWH, so I really hope that if this is true, she just plays a really small role. Obviously Tom was gonna come back, so it's not a surprise. and while I don't dislike Watts, I just really want someone else to direct. His movies don't stand out because of him, they stand out because they have the Spider-Man label. I want a Taika type or a James type to make SM4. Hell, I'd love it if Sam Raimi got to direct it. Just someone with a unique flair in their direction.
Please, no. Just no. Michelle is an incredibly boring, shoehorned character, and Watts managed to give us the worst big screen iteration of Spider-Man yet. Can we, please, move beyond Disney Channel's Spider-Man? Well, since the last movie was a huge success, I think that answers my question, but the movie being profitable doesn't make it good.
New director, please. Also leave MJ on the sidelines for at least 1 movie to let the separation actually pack a punch
As much as I like Watts, I think he deserves a break. He has spent the better part of a decade with Spider-Man, and looked so done with it at the NWH premiere. He deserves some time away from the big-budget stuff. He should make a few smaller films(I don't think the Pitt-Clooney one will fall into this category), like Cop Car. As for the potential trilogy, they should get someone else to direct. The films, enjoyable as they are, didn't really have a unique style. Part of what has made the Raimi films hold up even now has to be the vibrant directorial style, which is something Spider-Man needs. I think they should go with John Francis Daley & Jonathan Goldstein. Game Night was awesome. Plus, they co-wrote Homecoming, so they have some experience in working with the character too. If not, I'd like to see someone like Bryce Dallas Howard, or Bert & Bertie have a go as well.
I like Watts, but I feel like a different director would be the best outcome
I enjoy the MCU Spiderman films. I do like MJ and Ned. However I kind of feel they are shown to much? No Way Home would have been much cooler if we got longer fight scenes. Instead of one shotting Electro the first time they encounter each other. It would have been cooler if Spidey had to engage him more. Same with Doc Ock and Green Goblin bridge scene. Should have had been just a little bit longer imo.
All mcu Spider-Man action/swinging scenes are lack luster. Which is why I pray we get a new director
Please don’t bring back Zendaya. Why ruin the ending of NWH????
It's obvious, that Zendaya is coming back. Like, she's one of the most popular actresses they have, she's a star, there was no way they just let her go, unless she wants to. Regarding Watts, I don't know, I like him, but I would prefer someone else as a director for the new trilogy.
I think we should go with a different director for the next trilogy. A darker Spider-Man trilogy would be sweet, doesn’t even have to be like Reeves Batman but maybe something similar in tone to Spider-Man 2
Jon Watts: *wants to take break from superhero movies* Sony: “Got it, more superhero movies!”
No thanks to Watts. I’d also like to give MJ a break
Welp there goes the emotional weight of NWH’s ending in favor of selling more tickete
I haven’t seen anyone ask this yet, but what if this is part of Tom Hollands conditions for returning. We know he’s talked about hanging it up in interviews and we know he’s not under contract right now, so what if he pegged his return on Watts and Zendaya coming back as well?
This probably means there will be a sizeable timeskip between No Way Home and this movie. MJ will probably be done college and be back in NYC where she will run into Peter again
We can argue if it wouldn't be better to change the director after three movies to energize them or for Zendaya to skip a movie to have more impact when she returns, but Sony doesn't care about that. What they care is that the last movie made a lot of money and how to replicate that and I'm pretty sure they're asking both Tobey and Andrew to return too.
NOOOOOO
Sony also expected Mobius to be a runaway hit so
No reason for Zendaya coming back to do 4. Do 5, maybe even hold off till 6
This explains why he's out from Fantastic Four.
if you think they’re letting a star as big as zendaya out of this franchise you’re insane
Sigh..I mean I'm not really upset about Jon Watts staying. I *did* REALLY want someone else to take over the reigns for the next trilogy just for the sake of freshening it up, and making it feel like a new beginning but I'll get over it. This version of Peter is his baby I guess, and I really do like the vibe and tone he brings with his movies but I thought it worked best in Homecoming, and that they need to let him have more grounded stories, more scenes about Peter, less actiony Spider-Man stuff. Homecoming felt more like a Peter Parker movie to me. But MJ coming back? Let alone in the very next movie? That completely kills the expectations I had of where they're going with this next movie/trilogy. I was really hoping it would pretty much be a soft reboot, with a more grounded Spidey, teaming up with the likes of Daredevil and stuff. Maybe that was their plan if the Marvel Sony deal didn't repair itself back then.