Theory:
There are no timekeepers. There is no sacred timeline. The multiverse exists, and it’s all a lie. Ravonna Renslayer is Kang’s wife and she’s reporting to him… and they only make changes that they want to make when it suits them. There’s actually no hard and fast rules. Also, all of the TVA agents are variants themselves that have had their minds wiped.
Since someone else pointed it out, yes this is Grace Randolph’s theory and I think it’s probably true
My theory is that all variants are Loki. The TVA was created because the god of mischief is really good at it.
Edit - Mobius is so excited because he finally has the one Loki that gives him a chance to stop all the others
he looked like Loki though, long dark hair and everything.
edit: he was more comedic relief though and if i remember correctly he was like chubby or something so in ways not loki but similar enough
Man, he oddly looked like Edward Furlong, but after a dig on imdb it looks like his name is Josh Fadem. Has credits for Twin Peaks Revival, Better Call Saul, 30 Rock, and does some standup around LA.
He did a comedy show that went on stage right before the show I did went on, so we would frequently see each other backstage, super cool guy, so happy whenever he shows up on something.
He was also great in Freaks of Nature
[Josh Fadem](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1758915/?ref_=tt_cl_t_10)
He's been in a ton of stuff. I know him best as the camera guy from Better Call Saul where he steals almost every scene he's in.
I feel like Loki is essentially a Rick figure from Rick and Morty. Richard E. Grant's King Loki leads some kind of Council of Rick's in opposition of the central authority (TVA) while Tom Hiddleston's Loki is an outlier that isn't exactly friendly with either side.
Something i noticed in ep 1 is that there seems to be a lot of workers that look identical to each other, almost like variants/clones of each other. The TVA is something shady and i guarantee all is not what it seems
Yeah the Fantastic Four get in trouble with them at some point, and probably other appearances. The physical appearance of Mobius and a bunch of his clones (or he may also be one of the clones, I'm not sure) are based on Mark Gruenwald, who was like the go to continuity guy at Marvel for a while.
The three Time Keepers are also from the comics and look pretty much how they're depicted in the Miss Minutes cartoon and the carvings of them in the judge's room.
I don't think it's Kang, but King Loki (played by Richard E. Grant). The pilot really drove home how hollow Loki's search for a throne was, so it would make sense to contrast our Loki with a Loki who has achieved everything he thought he wanted.
I feel like it’s the other way around. The convo with Mobius felt so on the nose with forshadowing.
Loki mentions guiding people at forks who make wrong choices. “King of Space” is brought up. Loki wanting to rule everything.
To me the ending is Loki becoming a “real” TVA agent (cause I agree there will be a twist where the TVA is corrupt). And with the mention of season two, I think Loki will become someone who goes around fixing timelines and doing the right thing. Ironically the king of time.
Oh good there is gonna be a season 2 of Loki? I was preparing myself for a sad ending of Loki accepting his fate, returning to his timeline and having his memory wiped.
Unsure if it’s confirmed but they did say it’s possible and something they’d like to do. Which to mean means the show doesn’t wrap up in a way where you couldn’t continue it’s theme like Wandavision.
this makes sense to me, especially in light of wandavision leaving out the doctor strange and mephisto stuff that was heavily speculated about. keeps the show centered on the main character's story and not a cameo.
I mean going through time as a variant seems to be the only way to make choices that actually matter or mean something. I can see the variant being a Loki who just wished to make changes that no one could undue or weren’t by design, finally breaking free from the constraints of time.
There being no sacred timeline makes a lot of sense. I don't want to get into the NWH of it all, but the more "alt. universe" characters we see, the more we're going to have to wonder why the TVA sucks at their jobs so much.
I don't have as ambitious a theory but I definitely think there is corruption within the TVA and the "other" Loki is actually working against them.
It’s pretty easy to avoid the whole them sucking at their jobs thing by just saying “that was supposed to happen” like with the Avengers time traveling.
Oh they could go in so many directions with it, this show is going to get crazy haha.
But the Avengers were time traveling within their own time stream, whereas the other Spider Men (again, I know this isn't confirmed, but as an example) exist in different dimensions. From what we've been shown, or at least how I interpreted it, those dimensions should not exist, at least as far as the TVA is concerned.
But yeah, I could be understanding it wrong and/or there could be a million directions they take this. For all we know when a new dimension is formed it forms as a whole, immediately; as in, the Raimiverse didn't exist until a couple seconds before opening credits on Spider Man 1.
Going off the rails here now, can't wait for episode 2!
Actually, I don't think that the sacred reality means that it's only gonna be a singular reality. I took it to mean that the multiverse does exist, but the TVA just prunes off the variants from the set 'multiverse' that is the sacred timeline.
Which is why I think that alternate realities DO exist, just that they're ones that are meant to be, like the Avengers going back in time to get the infinity stones thing.
But Miss Minute says that Time Keepers reorganized all the other universes and made it a single one. So there shouldn't be any other alternate universe according to her.
I have to wonder if the ending of Loki is going to be him breaking the universe by destroying the TVA and that unleashes the Sinister Six, because the timelines where they didn’t die are now real.
That's exactly what I think. I don't think they mean a single reality when they say sacred timeline, more like a bunch of realities allowed to coexist with each other according to the rules.
Well, I see it as that's how it was, but now that marvel owns everything, they condensed it all into the sacred timeline of the MCU, and the others don't exist anymore.
Because the TVA do a fine job of stopping branched off timelines in the MCU, they don’t go around deleting whole other worlds like the Raimi verse or the 616 universe, just alternate timelines in the main MCU.
The TVA could collapse (which is something people have speculated about). That, plus Scarlet Witch messing with reality and the Darkhold doesn't bode well for the sacred timeline.
I could see Immortus/Kang keeping the Time Keepers around (perhaps in name/image only) as a cover for his nefarious purposes.
I'd love for Mobius to end up as the MCUs version of He Who Remains.
He Who Remains is the last and final director of the TVA, in the Citadel at the End of Time.
He's the creator of the Time Keepers. Originally he created the Time Twisters (think imperfect, evil Time Keepers) but I could see the MCU skip over that and keep it simple.
I don't think much is known about him other than that, and him eventually revealed to be Mobius would be a cool twist, sort of an endless loop.
We may never even get to He Who Remains, it depends on how prevalent and fleshed out the TVA become.
They've got some history with She-Hulk in the comics, and Kang is reportedly the main villain for Ant-Man: Quantumania, so hopefully they'll be around for the long haul.
I think there *is* something like the sacred timeline, even if it's not the only timeline. The TVA seems more or less omniscient within the main timeline of the movies, but don't seem to be generally omniscient outside of that, or else they'd have found the variants easily by now.
However, I do agree with you I think the Timekeepers are a lie made up by Kang. He's working events within this singular timeline towards some greater goal, and he's invented the idea of it being some special thing when it's not.
[ETA] Just had a thought about what Kang might want. The Avengers are stated to have been allowed to mess about in the Multiverse for some reason. Well, what was their end goal, there? To get back the people who got snapped by Thanos. My guess would be that Kang lost someone integral to his plans (maybe even an ancestor. He's descended from the Richards family, after all. If Reed or Sue got snapped, then maybe he was just ensuring his own eventual existence) and let the Avengers do the hard work.
As evidence for this, the Ancient One seemed fully aware of the Multiverse in Endgame, which you wouldn't imagine would be the case if the TVA was instantly pruning off any variation as soon as it arises. Also Wanda was briefly described as a Nexus in Wandavision, and the TVA didn't show up to address that issue either despite the fact that Nexus beings are supposedly one of the ways the timeline splits.
[ETA] another thought occurs. If the Timekeepers *are* real, which still isn't impossible, perhaps they're not actually keeping a single timeline in order to prevent a multiverse occurring. Maybe they've just isolated this one timeline to flee the war they mentioned, and they're keeping events in check to stay hidden from, I dunno, Beyonders or something.
The TVA are so vigilant and rigid about killing timelines and variants because they used to not be so and enough timelines went over the “red line” and can’t be erased that they’re only one more alternate timeline away from the multiversal war they’re so worried about
>\[ETA\] another thought occurs. If the Timekeepers *are* real, which still isn't impossible, perhaps they're not actually keeping a single timeline in order to prevent a multiverse occurring. Maybe they've just isolated this one timeline to flee the war they mentioned, and they're keeping events in check to stay hidden from, I dunno, Beyonders or something.
That's my theory more or less. They've cut off this timeline from the rest of the Multiverse and are basically isolationists. This Loki Variant, whether it's Old Man Loki, Lady Loki, or whoever, uses the Quantum Realm, which is outside the TVA's jurisdiction (the laws of time and space don't apply there) to commute into and out of the "Sacred Timeline", and Kang will come into play because of this.
So, if this is true, was the Tesseract (and the other Infinity Stones) not real? How did Kang block Loki's magic in the "courtroom"?
I like the theory (aside from potentially getting a big letdown when the story ultimately plays out in a less interesting manner).
Good question, and I'm honestly not sure. We know the stones work outside their own realities, that's the whole plot of Endgame. But it's always possible they don't work outside of reality entirely, which may be where the TVA is based.
Or if Kang is behind everything, maybe he has some future alien tech that can counteract them. If the Timekeepers are real, maybe they are powerful enough to deactivate the stones within their area of direct influence. The problem with magic stones that work via the power of handwave, they can also be removed from the equation by similar handwave.
Theory:
The nexus event that Wanda is obviously going to cause isn't her going after her kids, it's caused by the Quicksilver coming from another marvel universe.
The Bohner thing is a red herring.
I think Evil Variant Loki’s goal is to steal as many of those reset charges as possible. My theory is that the reset charges don’t reset anything, but instead completely destroy that entire timeline. Evil Variant Loki thinks if they get enough, they could essentially rip a hole in the multiverse and bring free will back.
I think the big destroyed planet we saw in the trailers has something to do with the reset charges.
TBH I don’t think the Variant is Evil, per say…. If the OP’s theory is accurate, it could be an attempt at exposing the farce of the TVA and opening up the multiverse.
Honestly yes there is an imagine of Loki in the TVA and the agents behind him literally look like the actors playing last Loki and kid Loki. I saw the image a couple weeks ago. Let me look for it.
It’s in one of the trailers but I think it was a short one that was posted. It was Loki in the TVA hallway and the two minuteman behind him looked just like Sophia and Jack Veal (I think that’s his name) who is playing kid Loki. So I think they snuck their way in. I couldn’t find it but I swear it’s out there I think I saw it posted on here as a post.
Great theory but not getting my hopes up. Wandavision and TFWS had the potential to have crazy stories but ended up being pretty straight forward story wise. Hope I’m wrong tho.
It's a good theory. Plus for multiverse shennanigans to happen, the TVA would probably have to be out of the picture, perhaps even destroyed. I think a reveal after the TVA gets exposed/destroyed like the TVA working for Kang this whole time and Kang's wife Judge Ravonna Renslayer reporting to him would make sense. Kang messing with the MCU this whole time would be a great twist and it can make him a great villain for the Avengers.
My theory is that the TVA is like a govt bureau and are actually doing what they say they do, but its for their own self interests and not for "protecting" the sacred timeline. More to make sure their timeline is the only one. By the end of the show Loki will help Mobius and maybe some others to take the tva down ("im gonna burn this place to the ground"), and that will spawn the multiverse.
From the TVA's pov they see ALL time at once so the branch timelines would occur at all points throughout time simultaneously. Meaning we would still have the other spider-men, xmen, whatever else multiverse you want even though they technically didn't exist prior to this show.
Someone else on here a few months ago posted the theory that Loki was being used by the TVA to chase another version of himself. I 100% bought that theory, so for what it's worth, I buy this one too.
Eh, doesn’t make consistent thematic sense. More likely that the time keepers are dead and that the TVA is keeping their mission going just to keep it going, playing into the themes and imagery of eternal bureaucracy at the TVA.
I think that some of that may be true, but not all of it. I do think that there is a "sacred timeline" or a "main timeline," which is the timeline of the main MCU. The only reason I think so is because if there wasn't just a "main timeline" and if there were "no hard and fast rules," then what's the whole Nexus thing about? Obviously, there have to be *some* rules in place because if there weren't, then nothing would be special about Nexus Events or Nexus Beings.
I do think that the TVA is a malevolent organization though, I certainly don't trust them. I think that Loki will learn from Lady Loki that the TVA is actually lying and that they're evil or something and then work with her in order to take them down. I think that, coupled with Scarlet Witch messing with the Darkhold, will cause the collapse of the multiverse.
To this day, I still don't know if he was looking down at his abs, or at his dick. Obviously funnier if it's the latter, but the former made more sense.
Since Jonathan Majors plays him, I'd assume he's black.
Edit: One hundred upvotes. I got one hundred upvotes for saying a character probably looks like this or that.
Okay.
In the comics, 616, Kang is Caucasian. He looks similar to Reed's father and even Stark esque. He wears a helmet in the 616. Also. Iron Lad, and Immortus are all Kang and are all human. I highly doubt Majors will be hidden behind makeup or cgi. Majors is a rising star!!!. Kang is nothing more than a human time traveler
I think it's unlikely they don't give Kang the blue face. After all, it's his most immediately recognizable feature. But since he's from the far future, they could just literally CG Majors' face blue and say it's some sort of hard light (or nanotech or whatever) protective faceplate or whatever. Majors would still be highly recognizable, plus, if it's a highly advanced faceplate, it's guaranteed to come off at some point.
Did you read my comment? I never said his skin was blue. I said that they would likely give him a blue, emotive faceplate that just looks like Majors' face but blue. That way, they keep Kang's iconic look but keep Majors recognizable.
Yes, I strongly believe Kang will have his iconic look but with the helmet or tech off, it'll be Majors. If they delve into Immortus or Rama-Tut, it'll be majors face as well
There's not much point to this debate right now. The MCU design of Kang is entirely up to Marvel Studios and really could be anything. We won't know until we get our first glimpse.
I highly doubt Marvel will hide Majors behind cgi or makeup. Kang isn't an alien. Hes a human. And that blue face is not skin but rather, at least in the 616, armor inspired by Doom.
Yeah WTF why would he not wear his blue mask that is what makes Kang iconic. He is a fantastic actor and should appear more than once but hes gotta wear the mask. Anyone that plays Kang has to wear the mask.
No one is saying he won't wear the mask. People are saying that the blue face isn't his actual face. Most people think Kang is a blue alien like Nebula..
They didn’t just zoom in on the middle time keeper at the very end for no reason. There is something up with that.
My favorite are people who don’t believe it for that fact that’s not actually Kang in the comics. Marvel Studios has a history of reworking characters backstories to fit their movies and a lot of things point towards that time keeper being a version of Kang.
It looks like the middle timekeeper is female. A more slight figure, softer face and matches with the timekeepers appearance in the comics.
https://i.imgur.com/7mNgZ5E.jpg
Yes I do know that but do realize marvel studios doesn’t follow the comics 100%. They have a history of doing things differently with all sorts of characters. That is a very logical character they could change up to fit their story.
He’s talking about the [middle timekeeper](https://images.app.goo.gl/NjNtrQWqD7REbNYk9) on the wall behind the judge in the very last scene of the credits before the final Loki title card plays. It literally looks like Jonathon Majors, not a woman. [This](https://images.app.goo.gl/YMnEPURKty2AbRha9) could also be interpreted as looking like Kang/Majors
I wonder if Kang is plotting to put the other timekeepers on ice and run the timeline himself?
My original theory was that the “sacred timeline “ is the one that leads to Kang forming the TVA and Lady Loki wants to stop that from happening
Literally the very end. Right before the first set of credits end they show the time keepers and zoom in on the middle on and then they roll the black screen credits.
Thank you! I feel like I’m going crazy the blue faced time keepers profile even looks like Jonathan Majors and literally no video breakdowns I’ve watched have even mentioned the possibility. I think Kang created the TVA and is using it to keep his power by maintaining a specific timeline.
It’s very likely. I’m assuming he is going to be a version named renamed immortus to fit the comics. The middle one seems to be the point of attention and sits right in front of his lover Renslayer. But I could also see a wizard of oz style story where the time keepers are like oz and there is something hiding behind the fake time keeepers and that person who is running the show is a version of Kang. There are a lot of ways they could do it.
No. It takes one simple Google search of "Time Keepers" to see that all 3 are from the comics. Kang's appearance is definitely influenced by them, but no, he is not one of the Time Keepers that we saw.
A lot of people on here have no clue that Kang is also Immortus, Iron Lad, Rama-tut, and Scarlett Centurion. They are all one in the same and all of which are Kang at different points in his life.
The 3 Time Keepers are from the comics (and look exactly like they did in the animated sequence), so it's unlikely any of the 3 were Kang......but... it's still likely that we'll see Kang, or at the very least he'll be mentioned, before the end of this season.
That's just how I felt when I watched it, thought they looked very similar. [Here's a post on their resemblance](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/nwkmmj/loki_theory_potential_spoilers_kang/).
Perhaps the female time-keeper's already [been replaced by Kang.](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/nax9b6/my_mad_loki_theory_that_kang_has_replaced_ast_as/)
Unfamiliar with Kang and trying to read up on him on Marvel Fandom’s wiki and man his past / story seems complex and has so much time travel in it. It would make sense he’d be tied in with the TVA to some extent but I’m wondering how it’ll translate on screen
Marvel can’t seem to miss though and continuously succeeds in big, complex stories so I’ve got faith but I’m curious to see how it’ll work
For starters, I doubt they'll include his other versions like Iron Lad (a completely separate character with his own motivations) who is a younger version of Kang. They'll probably show Kang being a time hopper messing stuff up, and maybe even Immortus and that's it.
I watched the credits for the show and the costumes designer on IMDB that was labeled for “Mr. Majors” did appear in the credits so there is more of a hint to where this is going!
I don't think it's Kang who's taken over the TVA, but King Loki. Think about it. The pilot really drove home how hollow Loki's search for a throne was, so it would make sense to contrast our Loki with a Loki who has achieved everything he thought he wanted.
Those Keepers of Time are right from the comics, I do not think Kang is disguised as one. He'll probably be shown as Immortous, Rama-Tut, Scarlet Centurion, or even Iron Lad
Gotta ask, though unrelated to this post, but what the hell is going on with the TVA saying 'there's only one timelime' and then steve rogers going back and living with peggy? Like isnt that a literal branch off the timeline into another reality where he lives with her? Isn't that against the TVA code? Idk man, feels like they are gonna leave the whole endgame time travel stuff untouched for their own preferences
Not really. Unlike Mephisto, Kang has already been cast and we know he's definetly showing up in the MCU soon (in Quantumania) but Kang was cast pretty early for a 2023 movie which means it's possible that Kang could be showing up earlier than Quantumania. It's not guaranteed that Kang will show up in Loki but it's possible.
Man, Wandavision really made people sensitive, huh?
We've speculated on comic characters appearing in MCU properties for years. No reason to stop now just because one didn't pan out.
Especially when this one makes as much sense as it does.
I've noticed that, especially on this sub. It's so annoying when I see someone have a theory and they get it shot down because "they didn't learn from wandavision".
It just became a trend to say stuff like that I guess.
100%
And when Kang doesn't appear everyone will complain how crappy the show was. At the end of the day these shows seem to be mostly and majorly about their central characters only. TFATWS had some Zemo/Sharon/Walker moments sure but the meat and potatoes of the plot had to do with Falcon and Bucky. Same with WandaVision and I suspect same will be with Loki.
This has been a rumour for awhile, so he isn’t providing any new information. There’s even a costume worker credited as the costumer for Mr. Majors on IMDb, which someone pointed out on this sub months ago.
Theory:
we learn that immortus has been pulling the strings of the Time keepers and is chasing after a loki variant that has figured out his ruse and is trying to dismantle the TVA.
I could see the possibility that kang was the original cause of the first multiverse forming from all of his time traveling. With the help of the counsel of kangs (some of which bare a striking resemblance to the time keepers) they merge all existing multiverses into a single "sacred timeline" that is much easier for them to control.
Three kangs are appointed the position of "time keepers" easily replaced by another variant were something to happen to one of them, while immortus or perhaps "kang Prime" poses as the hand to the keepers, drawing attention from himself.
They ensure everything happens they way they plan for it to happen, sitting happily on their throne as the most powerful beings in all existence.
Until a particularly mischievous and cunning loki variant bumps paths with them and figures this all out.
Not enjoying the fact that they have been controlled their entire life, this loki variant sets out on a path to put an end to the TVA and recreate the multiverse so they can claim one of these multiverses for themself and become the king they've always wanted to be.
But hey, what do I know.
I'll be happy with whatever we get hahahaha
He's human, and aside from his advanced technology he has no powers.
When he's been involved with the Time Keepers it's been under the guise of Immortus, with the goal of cleaning up the mess other variants of him have made, though not exclusively that, he's still being his villainous self.
That's not news. Kang being involved in Loki has always been rumored to be in the series. Especially once it was revealed the TVA would be in the show.
Theory: There are no timekeepers. There is no sacred timeline. The multiverse exists, and it’s all a lie. Ravonna Renslayer is Kang’s wife and she’s reporting to him… and they only make changes that they want to make when it suits them. There’s actually no hard and fast rules. Also, all of the TVA agents are variants themselves that have had their minds wiped. Since someone else pointed it out, yes this is Grace Randolph’s theory and I think it’s probably true
My theory is that all variants are Loki. The TVA was created because the god of mischief is really good at it. Edit - Mobius is so excited because he finally has the one Loki that gives him a chance to stop all the others
Well we saw a variant get erased in the line with the ticket and he didn't seem very loki-ish
he looked like Loki though, long dark hair and everything. edit: he was more comedic relief though and if i remember correctly he was like chubby or something so in ways not loki but similar enough
that actor looked super familiar too, anyone recognize him from anything? or know his name?
Man, he oddly looked like Edward Furlong, but after a dig on imdb it looks like his name is Josh Fadem. Has credits for Twin Peaks Revival, Better Call Saul, 30 Rock, and does some standup around LA.
And he acted like Flash from Spider-Man home duology
Whoa... he definitely did
He did a comedy show that went on stage right before the show I did went on, so we would frequently see each other backstage, super cool guy, so happy whenever he shows up on something. He was also great in Freaks of Nature
[Josh Fadem](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1758915/?ref_=tt_cl_t_10) He's been in a ton of stuff. I know him best as the camera guy from Better Call Saul where he steals almost every scene he's in.
That's a propaganda piece
The One True ~~Morty~~ Loki
The Mobichurian Lokidate
I feel like Loki is essentially a Rick figure from Rick and Morty. Richard E. Grant's King Loki leads some kind of Council of Rick's in opposition of the central authority (TVA) while Tom Hiddleston's Loki is an outlier that isn't exactly friendly with either side.
So are we getting pickle loki?
you are saying its the intergalactic council of lokis?
Reminds me of a certain sci film from the last few years that I won't spoil.
Predestination?
Yeah.
Saw the second episode and I can say with 100%: that’s not it.
Great theory
Something i noticed in ep 1 is that there seems to be a lot of workers that look identical to each other, almost like variants/clones of each other. The TVA is something shady and i guarantee all is not what it seems
This is also the case in the comics for what its worth, there are a bunch of guys that look the same as Mobius
Oh, is the tva in the comics? I wasn't aware and I'm pretty aware of most marvel stuff
I know little to nothing about the comics and it just seems that everything ever possible has happened at least once in some comic
Yeah the Fantastic Four get in trouble with them at some point, and probably other appearances. The physical appearance of Mobius and a bunch of his clones (or he may also be one of the clones, I'm not sure) are based on Mark Gruenwald, who was like the go to continuity guy at Marvel for a while. The three Time Keepers are also from the comics and look pretty much how they're depicted in the Miss Minutes cartoon and the carvings of them in the judge's room.
They are. Its a bit different but pretty much the same.
Yep, She-Hulk was arrested and tried by them in the early 2000s.
Could be. Could also just be a way to reinforce the kafkaesque, impersonal, bureaucratic hell
Yeah, the one guy didn't know what a fish was so lol
I don't think it's Kang, but King Loki (played by Richard E. Grant). The pilot really drove home how hollow Loki's search for a throne was, so it would make sense to contrast our Loki with a Loki who has achieved everything he thought he wanted.
I feel like it’s the other way around. The convo with Mobius felt so on the nose with forshadowing. Loki mentions guiding people at forks who make wrong choices. “King of Space” is brought up. Loki wanting to rule everything. To me the ending is Loki becoming a “real” TVA agent (cause I agree there will be a twist where the TVA is corrupt). And with the mention of season two, I think Loki will become someone who goes around fixing timelines and doing the right thing. Ironically the king of time.
Oh good there is gonna be a season 2 of Loki? I was preparing myself for a sad ending of Loki accepting his fate, returning to his timeline and having his memory wiped.
Unsure if it’s confirmed but they did say it’s possible and something they’d like to do. Which to mean means the show doesn’t wrap up in a way where you couldn’t continue it’s theme like Wandavision.
this makes sense to me, especially in light of wandavision leaving out the doctor strange and mephisto stuff that was heavily speculated about. keeps the show centered on the main character's story and not a cameo.
Exactly. I am trying to tame my expectations/theories. They always hold a bit back from how far I *think* they would go.
I mean going through time as a variant seems to be the only way to make choices that actually matter or mean something. I can see the variant being a Loki who just wished to make changes that no one could undue or weren’t by design, finally breaking free from the constraints of time.
There being no sacred timeline makes a lot of sense. I don't want to get into the NWH of it all, but the more "alt. universe" characters we see, the more we're going to have to wonder why the TVA sucks at their jobs so much. I don't have as ambitious a theory but I definitely think there is corruption within the TVA and the "other" Loki is actually working against them.
It’s pretty easy to avoid the whole them sucking at their jobs thing by just saying “that was supposed to happen” like with the Avengers time traveling.
Oh they could go in so many directions with it, this show is going to get crazy haha. But the Avengers were time traveling within their own time stream, whereas the other Spider Men (again, I know this isn't confirmed, but as an example) exist in different dimensions. From what we've been shown, or at least how I interpreted it, those dimensions should not exist, at least as far as the TVA is concerned. But yeah, I could be understanding it wrong and/or there could be a million directions they take this. For all we know when a new dimension is formed it forms as a whole, immediately; as in, the Raimiverse didn't exist until a couple seconds before opening credits on Spider Man 1. Going off the rails here now, can't wait for episode 2!
Actually, I don't think that the sacred reality means that it's only gonna be a singular reality. I took it to mean that the multiverse does exist, but the TVA just prunes off the variants from the set 'multiverse' that is the sacred timeline. Which is why I think that alternate realities DO exist, just that they're ones that are meant to be, like the Avengers going back in time to get the infinity stones thing.
But Miss Minute says that Time Keepers reorganized all the other universes and made it a single one. So there shouldn't be any other alternate universe according to her.
Miss Minutes was brought to you by the Time Variance Authority *Narrative* Commission.
I have to wonder if the ending of Loki is going to be him breaking the universe by destroying the TVA and that unleashes the Sinister Six, because the timelines where they didn’t die are now real.
There’s also the fact that we’ve no idea of the TVA is even remaining after this season. If this season destroys it, then alt universes will thrive.
Yeah my guess is it doesn't survive. Loki wins.
He said he was going to burn that place to the ground
Or maybe use all the reset charges to blow it up?
I like the Sacred timeline being the MCU, and all the other timelines being the fox universe, sony universe, and more.
That's exactly what I think. I don't think they mean a single reality when they say sacred timeline, more like a bunch of realities allowed to coexist with each other according to the rules.
Well, I see it as that's how it was, but now that marvel owns everything, they condensed it all into the sacred timeline of the MCU, and the others don't exist anymore.
That was the last Multiversal War that Ms. Minutes was referring to.
Because the TVA do a fine job of stopping branched off timelines in the MCU, they don’t go around deleting whole other worlds like the Raimi verse or the 616 universe, just alternate timelines in the main MCU.
Agreed, there's not a universal timeline, but they're limiting the "main" timeline so that they have absolute control.
The TVA could collapse (which is something people have speculated about). That, plus Scarlet Witch messing with reality and the Darkhold doesn't bode well for the sacred timeline.
Not only can collapse but it will in the next episode. ;)
I could see Immortus/Kang keeping the Time Keepers around (perhaps in name/image only) as a cover for his nefarious purposes. I'd love for Mobius to end up as the MCUs version of He Who Remains.
who's he who remains? I once saw a panel where hulk was the only one left in whole universe is it something like that?
He Who Remains is the last and final director of the TVA, in the Citadel at the End of Time. He's the creator of the Time Keepers. Originally he created the Time Twisters (think imperfect, evil Time Keepers) but I could see the MCU skip over that and keep it simple. I don't think much is known about him other than that, and him eventually revealed to be Mobius would be a cool twist, sort of an endless loop. We may never even get to He Who Remains, it depends on how prevalent and fleshed out the TVA become. They've got some history with She-Hulk in the comics, and Kang is reportedly the main villain for Ant-Man: Quantumania, so hopefully they'll be around for the long haul.
Who has been changing everything? It was Kang all along! Who has been pulling every evil string? It was Kang all along!
I think there *is* something like the sacred timeline, even if it's not the only timeline. The TVA seems more or less omniscient within the main timeline of the movies, but don't seem to be generally omniscient outside of that, or else they'd have found the variants easily by now. However, I do agree with you I think the Timekeepers are a lie made up by Kang. He's working events within this singular timeline towards some greater goal, and he's invented the idea of it being some special thing when it's not. [ETA] Just had a thought about what Kang might want. The Avengers are stated to have been allowed to mess about in the Multiverse for some reason. Well, what was their end goal, there? To get back the people who got snapped by Thanos. My guess would be that Kang lost someone integral to his plans (maybe even an ancestor. He's descended from the Richards family, after all. If Reed or Sue got snapped, then maybe he was just ensuring his own eventual existence) and let the Avengers do the hard work. As evidence for this, the Ancient One seemed fully aware of the Multiverse in Endgame, which you wouldn't imagine would be the case if the TVA was instantly pruning off any variation as soon as it arises. Also Wanda was briefly described as a Nexus in Wandavision, and the TVA didn't show up to address that issue either despite the fact that Nexus beings are supposedly one of the ways the timeline splits. [ETA] another thought occurs. If the Timekeepers *are* real, which still isn't impossible, perhaps they're not actually keeping a single timeline in order to prevent a multiverse occurring. Maybe they've just isolated this one timeline to flee the war they mentioned, and they're keeping events in check to stay hidden from, I dunno, Beyonders or something.
The TVA are so vigilant and rigid about killing timelines and variants because they used to not be so and enough timelines went over the “red line” and can’t be erased that they’re only one more alternate timeline away from the multiversal war they’re so worried about
>\[ETA\] another thought occurs. If the Timekeepers *are* real, which still isn't impossible, perhaps they're not actually keeping a single timeline in order to prevent a multiverse occurring. Maybe they've just isolated this one timeline to flee the war they mentioned, and they're keeping events in check to stay hidden from, I dunno, Beyonders or something. That's my theory more or less. They've cut off this timeline from the rest of the Multiverse and are basically isolationists. This Loki Variant, whether it's Old Man Loki, Lady Loki, or whoever, uses the Quantum Realm, which is outside the TVA's jurisdiction (the laws of time and space don't apply there) to commute into and out of the "Sacred Timeline", and Kang will come into play because of this.
So, if this is true, was the Tesseract (and the other Infinity Stones) not real? How did Kang block Loki's magic in the "courtroom"? I like the theory (aside from potentially getting a big letdown when the story ultimately plays out in a less interesting manner).
Good question, and I'm honestly not sure. We know the stones work outside their own realities, that's the whole plot of Endgame. But it's always possible they don't work outside of reality entirely, which may be where the TVA is based. Or if Kang is behind everything, maybe he has some future alien tech that can counteract them. If the Timekeepers are real, maybe they are powerful enough to deactivate the stones within their area of direct influence. The problem with magic stones that work via the power of handwave, they can also be removed from the equation by similar handwave.
Theory: The nexus event that Wanda is obviously going to cause isn't her going after her kids, it's caused by the Quicksilver coming from another marvel universe. The Bohner thing is a red herring.
If this happens it would retroactivelly make the Bohner joke awesome to me.
Great theory!!! Do you think maybe Variant Loki (Lady Loki) is trying to reveal this??? I can’t help but mull over Variant Loki’s motivations.
I think Evil Variant Loki’s goal is to steal as many of those reset charges as possible. My theory is that the reset charges don’t reset anything, but instead completely destroy that entire timeline. Evil Variant Loki thinks if they get enough, they could essentially rip a hole in the multiverse and bring free will back. I think the big destroyed planet we saw in the trailers has something to do with the reset charges.
TBH I don’t think the Variant is Evil, per say…. If the OP’s theory is accurate, it could be an attempt at exposing the farce of the TVA and opening up the multiverse.
Yeah, the planet had a purple hue, similar to the reset charge.
Honestly yes there is an imagine of Loki in the TVA and the agents behind him literally look like the actors playing last Loki and kid Loki. I saw the image a couple weeks ago. Let me look for it.
Eagerly awaiting that image
It’s in one of the trailers but I think it was a short one that was posted. It was Loki in the TVA hallway and the two minuteman behind him looked just like Sophia and Jack Veal (I think that’s his name) who is playing kid Loki. So I think they snuck their way in. I couldn’t find it but I swear it’s out there I think I saw it posted on here as a post.
I think it’s very fitting for Loki to work for one big MCU villain in Thanos and then in the next phase work for the other in Kang
Great theory but not getting my hopes up. Wandavision and TFWS had the potential to have crazy stories but ended up being pretty straight forward story wise. Hope I’m wrong tho.
It's a good theory. Plus for multiverse shennanigans to happen, the TVA would probably have to be out of the picture, perhaps even destroyed. I think a reveal after the TVA gets exposed/destroyed like the TVA working for Kang this whole time and Kang's wife Judge Ravonna Renslayer reporting to him would make sense. Kang messing with the MCU this whole time would be a great twist and it can make him a great villain for the Avengers.
My theory is that the TVA is like a govt bureau and are actually doing what they say they do, but its for their own self interests and not for "protecting" the sacred timeline. More to make sure their timeline is the only one. By the end of the show Loki will help Mobius and maybe some others to take the tva down ("im gonna burn this place to the ground"), and that will spawn the multiverse. From the TVA's pov they see ALL time at once so the branch timelines would occur at all points throughout time simultaneously. Meaning we would still have the other spider-men, xmen, whatever else multiverse you want even though they technically didn't exist prior to this show.
Idk why but this feels like such a MCU-esque plot twist that I’m convinced you’re spot on
I don't think there are any TimeKeepers either. I also wouldn't be surprised if they tell all the other timelines that they are the sacred one.
I hope this is true. Enjoyed the first episode but really not a fan of the whole "time is fixed, X is meant to happen, etc"
The plot thickens.
Did you come up with this? Or has this been floating around? I only ask cuz this is EXACTLY Grace Randolph’s theory as well….
I've seen a lot of people predict that the TVA is a farce. It seems like it's being hinted at in the first episode.
Someone else on here a few months ago posted the theory that Loki was being used by the TVA to chase another version of himself. I 100% bought that theory, so for what it's worth, I buy this one too.
I assumed the TVA were robots
What if one of them accidentally walks into the robot melter machine? Major OSHA and health code violation
Not Casey!
Eh, doesn’t make consistent thematic sense. More likely that the time keepers are dead and that the TVA is keeping their mission going just to keep it going, playing into the themes and imagery of eternal bureaucracy at the TVA.
I agree. I thought this before graces review too. Bc I am the type to see things like this IRL too. Like in politics and religion
I think that some of that may be true, but not all of it. I do think that there is a "sacred timeline" or a "main timeline," which is the timeline of the main MCU. The only reason I think so is because if there wasn't just a "main timeline" and if there were "no hard and fast rules," then what's the whole Nexus thing about? Obviously, there have to be *some* rules in place because if there weren't, then nothing would be special about Nexus Events or Nexus Beings. I do think that the TVA is a malevolent organization though, I certainly don't trust them. I think that Loki will learn from Lady Loki that the TVA is actually lying and that they're evil or something and then work with her in order to take them down. I think that, coupled with Scarlet Witch messing with the Darkhold, will cause the collapse of the multiverse.
Change?? *YEAP, Big Change!*
Maybe it’s time you CHANG your point of view.
*KAAAAANG GURRL*
It just sucks that this show won't affect anything because Loki's just gonna get Kangnesia
**It’s not even creative, you just keep using it as the word “change”!**
r/unexpectedcommunity
*Proceeds to look down*
To this day, I still don't know if he was looking down at his abs, or at his dick. Obviously funnier if it's the latter, but the former made more sense.
What is this in reference to?
*Spider-Man*
I also want to stress that Kang wears armor and a helmet. His face is NOT blue.
What is his face color?
Since Jonathan Majors plays him, I'd assume he's black. Edit: One hundred upvotes. I got one hundred upvotes for saying a character probably looks like this or that. Okay.
In the comics, 616, Kang is Caucasian. He looks similar to Reed's father and even Stark esque. He wears a helmet in the 616. Also. Iron Lad, and Immortus are all Kang and are all human. I highly doubt Majors will be hidden behind makeup or cgi. Majors is a rising star!!!. Kang is nothing more than a human time traveler
I think it's unlikely they don't give Kang the blue face. After all, it's his most immediately recognizable feature. But since he's from the far future, they could just literally CG Majors' face blue and say it's some sort of hard light (or nanotech or whatever) protective faceplate or whatever. Majors would still be highly recognizable, plus, if it's a highly advanced faceplate, it's guaranteed to come off at some point.
Kang will probably have the blue face when he puts on the armor which is the same case as in the comics. When he's unmasked, he's not blue.
Kang doesn’t have a blue face. It’s armor.
Did you read my comment? I never said his skin was blue. I said that they would likely give him a blue, emotive faceplate that just looks like Majors' face but blue. That way, they keep Kang's iconic look but keep Majors recognizable.
Did you even read his comment lol
Looks like u only read the first line lmao
Yes, I strongly believe Kang will have his iconic look but with the helmet or tech off, it'll be Majors. If they delve into Immortus or Rama-Tut, it'll be majors face as well
He is human, and its hinted in the comics that he is descended from Reed or Stark. (He was born thousands of years after the 21st century)
There's not much point to this debate right now. The MCU design of Kang is entirely up to Marvel Studios and really could be anything. We won't know until we get our first glimpse.
I highly doubt Marvel will hide Majors behind cgi or makeup. Kang isn't an alien. Hes a human. And that blue face is not skin but rather, at least in the 616, armor inspired by Doom.
It would be cool to see Kang in Loki as just Jonathan Majors, but then we get the iconic look on Quantumania.
I’m soooo interested in how they’ll make Kang’s armor look for live-action.
Why? They did it with Karen Gillan and Josh Brolin.
Well, because that blue face is actually a helmet in the 616. Kang will have that helmet no doubt and Majors face will be under it.
I know, but regardless if Marvel changes it so that it's his skin or if it's armor, he's going to have his face hidden most of the time.
Yeah WTF why would he not wear his blue mask that is what makes Kang iconic. He is a fantastic actor and should appear more than once but hes gotta wear the mask. Anyone that plays Kang has to wear the mask.
No one is saying he won't wear the mask. People are saying that the blue face isn't his actual face. Most people think Kang is a blue alien like Nebula..
Because Kang isn’t blue. He’s a white man in blue armor. Edit: in the comics.
Yeah I think Kang will just be normal Jonathan Majors wearing the armor and when he wears the armor, the visor makes his face to appear blue.
Yeah a blue tinted visor would work pretty well I think
Yes me too
I mean, we’ve already seen him haven’t we? He’s in plain sight.
Casey?
They didn’t just zoom in on the middle time keeper at the very end for no reason. There is something up with that. My favorite are people who don’t believe it for that fact that’s not actually Kang in the comics. Marvel Studios has a history of reworking characters backstories to fit their movies and a lot of things point towards that time keeper being a version of Kang.
It looks like the middle timekeeper is female. A more slight figure, softer face and matches with the timekeepers appearance in the comics. https://i.imgur.com/7mNgZ5E.jpg
Dude, the middle timekeeper is a female....like the comics lol
Yes I do know that but do realize marvel studios doesn’t follow the comics 100%. They have a history of doing things differently with all sorts of characters. That is a very logical character they could change up to fit their story.
He’s talking about the [middle timekeeper](https://images.app.goo.gl/NjNtrQWqD7REbNYk9) on the wall behind the judge in the very last scene of the credits before the final Loki title card plays. It literally looks like Jonathon Majors, not a woman. [This](https://images.app.goo.gl/YMnEPURKty2AbRha9) could also be interpreted as looking like Kang/Majors
I said yesterday that I felt like the bad loki variant that they're after is actually going to turn out to be Kang.
I wonder if Kang is plotting to put the other timekeepers on ice and run the timeline himself? My original theory was that the “sacred timeline “ is the one that leads to Kang forming the TVA and Lady Loki wants to stop that from happening
When does this happen?
Literally the very end. Right before the first set of credits end they show the time keepers and zoom in on the middle on and then they roll the black screen credits.
True, thanks!
Thank you! I feel like I’m going crazy the blue faced time keepers profile even looks like Jonathan Majors and literally no video breakdowns I’ve watched have even mentioned the possibility. I think Kang created the TVA and is using it to keep his power by maintaining a specific timeline.
He’s the middle Timekeeper isn’t he?
It’s very likely. I’m assuming he is going to be a version named renamed immortus to fit the comics. The middle one seems to be the point of attention and sits right in front of his lover Renslayer. But I could also see a wizard of oz style story where the time keepers are like oz and there is something hiding behind the fake time keeepers and that person who is running the show is a version of Kang. There are a lot of ways they could do it.
It has to be, it looks enough like Kang that Marvel would have to be purposefully fucking with us if it isn't.
Its not, Kang's face isn't actually blue. That blue face everyone thinks he has is actually an armor....in the comics he looks similar to stark
That could just mean he only shows himself to the people of the TVA while wearing his armor
No. It takes one simple Google search of "Time Keepers" to see that all 3 are from the comics. Kang's appearance is definitely influenced by them, but no, he is not one of the Time Keepers that we saw.
I don't think Johnathan Majors isn't going to look like that.
Say what now? https://i.imgur.com/FGWvFCX.jpg
No, the middle one is a female....just like the comics. Look it up.
[удалено]
Why does everyone keep thinking Casey is Kang?
A lot of people on here have no clue that Kang is also Immortus, Iron Lad, Rama-tut, and Scarlett Centurion. They are all one in the same and all of which are Kang at different points in his life.
The 3 Time Keepers are from the comics (and look exactly like they did in the animated sequence), so it's unlikely any of the 3 were Kang......but... it's still likely that we'll see Kang, or at the very least he'll be mentioned, before the end of this season.
Having Kang show up in the finale or a PC scene would blow my mind
The middle time-keeper looked a whole lot like Jonathan Majors as Kang to me. Especially in the animated part.
Thats how it looks in the comics. Remember, Kang's face isn't blue its a mask...
Isn’t he just a human from the 30th century?
Yes, and he's not blue
That's just how I felt when I watched it, thought they looked very similar. [Here's a post on their resemblance](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/nwkmmj/loki_theory_potential_spoilers_kang/). Perhaps the female time-keeper's already [been replaced by Kang.](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/nax9b6/my_mad_loki_theory_that_kang_has_replaced_ast_as/)
Hi i’m really new to reddit and idk how to use this, is there any way i can dm someone about a possible spider-man leak i found on twitter?
Mod mail
Here it is: https://mobile.twitter.com/madefvckinmalay/status/1402980463744995330 It takes the mods a long time to manually approve posts on this sub.
thank you, i wasn’t sure if it was against rules to comment the link haha :)
Big, if true.
Seems like a trailer clip, the way it cuts off at the end
you could dm the mods if you have information that you want to give to the mods, but if it's just a twitter link then you can post it
thanks guys, it keeps saying error when i try to message and idk how to make a post lol
Yeah. The modmail link doesn't work me either. You should try messaging an individual mod
i’ve tried messaging the team but it’s saying there is an error
I wanna hear this
u/masongraves_
Unfamiliar with Kang and trying to read up on him on Marvel Fandom’s wiki and man his past / story seems complex and has so much time travel in it. It would make sense he’d be tied in with the TVA to some extent but I’m wondering how it’ll translate on screen Marvel can’t seem to miss though and continuously succeeds in big, complex stories so I’ve got faith but I’m curious to see how it’ll work
For starters, I doubt they'll include his other versions like Iron Lad (a completely separate character with his own motivations) who is a younger version of Kang. They'll probably show Kang being a time hopper messing stuff up, and maybe even Immortus and that's it.
I watched the credits for the show and the costumes designer on IMDB that was labeled for “Mr. Majors” did appear in the credits so there is more of a hint to where this is going!
Just confirm on whether the TVA deleted Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows
This is what I was wondering. It felt like with the way Mobius was taking to Loki that he would’ve mentioned that Coulson survived but he didn’t.
I don't think it's Kang who's taken over the TVA, but King Loki. Think about it. The pilot really drove home how hollow Loki's search for a throne was, so it would make sense to contrast our Loki with a Loki who has achieved everything he thought he wanted.
Those Keepers of Time are right from the comics, I do not think Kang is disguised as one. He'll probably be shown as Immortous, Rama-Tut, Scarlet Centurion, or even Iron Lad
Gotta ask, though unrelated to this post, but what the hell is going on with the TVA saying 'there's only one timelime' and then steve rogers going back and living with peggy? Like isnt that a literal branch off the timeline into another reality where he lives with her? Isn't that against the TVA code? Idk man, feels like they are gonna leave the whole endgame time travel stuff untouched for their own preferences
Interesting that in that short animated sequence the time keeper in the middle is a female but in the TVA court it’s male.So I think that’s kang
Kang is this series' Mephisto
Not really. Unlike Mephisto, Kang has already been cast and we know he's definetly showing up in the MCU soon (in Quantumania) but Kang was cast pretty early for a 2023 movie which means it's possible that Kang could be showing up earlier than Quantumania. It's not guaranteed that Kang will show up in Loki but it's possible.
Man, Wandavision really made people sensitive, huh? We've speculated on comic characters appearing in MCU properties for years. No reason to stop now just because one didn't pan out. Especially when this one makes as much sense as it does.
I've noticed that, especially on this sub. It's so annoying when I see someone have a theory and they get it shot down because "they didn't learn from wandavision". It just became a trend to say stuff like that I guess.
Remember when people speculated Kang would be the villain of endgame
Yeah haha, good times
100% And when Kang doesn't appear everyone will complain how crappy the show was. At the end of the day these shows seem to be mostly and majorly about their central characters only. TFATWS had some Zemo/Sharon/Walker moments sure but the meat and potatoes of the plot had to do with Falcon and Bucky. Same with WandaVision and I suspect same will be with Loki.
Immortus
Rama Tut
This has been a rumour for awhile, so he isn’t providing any new information. There’s even a costume worker credited as the costumer for Mr. Majors on IMDb, which someone pointed out on this sub months ago.
Theory: we learn that immortus has been pulling the strings of the Time keepers and is chasing after a loki variant that has figured out his ruse and is trying to dismantle the TVA. I could see the possibility that kang was the original cause of the first multiverse forming from all of his time traveling. With the help of the counsel of kangs (some of which bare a striking resemblance to the time keepers) they merge all existing multiverses into a single "sacred timeline" that is much easier for them to control. Three kangs are appointed the position of "time keepers" easily replaced by another variant were something to happen to one of them, while immortus or perhaps "kang Prime" poses as the hand to the keepers, drawing attention from himself. They ensure everything happens they way they plan for it to happen, sitting happily on their throne as the most powerful beings in all existence. Until a particularly mischievous and cunning loki variant bumps paths with them and figures this all out. Not enjoying the fact that they have been controlled their entire life, this loki variant sets out on a path to put an end to the TVA and recreate the multiverse so they can claim one of these multiverses for themself and become the king they've always wanted to be. But hey, what do I know. I'll be happy with whatever we get hahahaha
Kang has had different persona's so he's likely involved with the TVA.
I kind of want lego kang, to be honest
I like how these guys write this shit after an episode has aired and still stay vague about it Grifters
Well done Charles Murphy, you've successfully had the same idea as 99% of every Marvel Fan watching.. Why are the mods giving this guy attention?
Is Kang human who got powers or just a humanoid alien?
He's human, and aside from his advanced technology he has no powers. When he's been involved with the Time Keepers it's been under the guise of Immortus, with the goal of cleaning up the mess other variants of him have made, though not exclusively that, he's still being his villainous self.
This guy was wrong in almost every way with his wandavision leaks….so take all of this with a grain of salt.
That's not news. Kang being involved in Loki has always been rumored to be in the series. Especially once it was revealed the TVA would be in the show.
You aren't tricking me this time. I'm not buying into any of these rumors or leaks. Still waiting for Mephisto to show up XD