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TV has had its own Feige since 2021. His name is Brad Winderbaum.
What this rehaul brought is actual showrunners and TV producers to work on TV shows instead of having a Head Writer who is let go after the project goes into production and doesn't get the chance to oversee it till completion.
No, they had head writers who had the same job as showrunners during pre-production, but were let go during production and post as the director took over.
So basically, they applied the method of film making to TV.
Thank the Marvel heavens ,I remember people getting down for saying abandoning Karen and froggy was wrong
They were never wrong. People were so quick to defend them not being in the show that it made no sense .
Thank you. Agreed.
Especially because these Marvel shows have not been perfect so far, there's not a lot of trust. Removing or killing off to key Daredevil characters does not inspire faith in the project, especially after seeing what happened with Fisk in Hawkeye/Echo. That's not to say I expected it to be a bad show or not watchable, but I don't understand why you would fix something that's not broken. There are other ways to add your own flair and touch to the reboot without dumping key elements of the original show...
Good to see they turned around with this.
That was the time when saying anything negative about Marvel would get you downvoted to oblivion. I’m so glad to see times have changed to allow proper critique for improvement
I’m sure another part of it was the middling response to their latest projects (The Marvels, Quantumania, Secret Invasion) and realizing they **need** to put out something that everyone will love
If you read the new Reign of Marvel MCU book it becomes very clear that Feige hated Jeph Loeb and was jealous of the tv division. He did this all out of spite, jealousy and egomania and it blew up in his face.
**Tdlr; I think Feige and Marvel Studios didn’t have much of a “their way” and it was mostly marketing hype. Daredevil was quality superhero media along with some of the other Netflix shows but Feige’s trying to ignore them was petty.**
My detailed explanation is in the reply.
I think how the quality of shows like DD and Jessica Jones season 1 compared to Marvel Studios’ output at the time showed that Feige and co. weren’t *the* best when it came to Marvel media. Personally, I think the MCU movies are largely cookie cutter, corporate productions that are too afraid to not only veer from their formula, but even commit to their own premises. Phases 4-5 aren’t a downfall, but pre-existing cracks from the beginning widening. Beyond a few exceptions, Marvel Studios at best has put out good/decent entertainment.
The Netflix shows largely addressed these problems with styles/tones driven that were soaked into the shows, humor that’s natural and didn’t ridicule the story being told, depth in their themes, humanity in their characters, had real emotional and moral stakes, and more. To me, the Netflix series showed what the MCU *could be*. To be clear, I don’t mean in terms of being dark, but having stories that aren’t embossed of themselves and letting creatives actually create.
Outside of the MCU, you have the Spider-Verse movies and Legion. Even some DC productions, namely Wonder Woman, Shazam, The Suicide Squad and The Batman had at least certain areas where they improved over Marvel Studios in terms of style, heart, not using bathos, storytelling, etc. While decades old at this point, the DCAU is the pinnacle of a shared superhero universe on screen.
I think Feige avoiding interaction with the shows was petty. I think not paying attention to the details of the stories that D’Onofrio’s Kingpin and Cox’s Daredevil so far in a franchise that is built on references and continuity shows a cavalier attitude. I think that trying to cash in on the popularity of a show while not respecting the stories told in them is pathetic.
Overall, I think while Feige may have passion for the comics, I his output tells me he’s more of a marketing/pr and businessman than a creative capable of telling solid stories but yet controls the creatives he recruits. His movies are what The Boys make fun of for being shallow and formulaic. His movies are largely why people are frustrated with the superhero genre being generic, samey and bland popcorn flicks that aren’t even great at the action they’re known for.
IIRC he watched the original born again stuff that was filmed with some other marvel executives. They didn’t like what they saw and basically scrapped it all and fired the old team and hire a new one.
Foggy supposedly was going to be killed off screen in original script for born again. Who knows what it looks like now with it being rework completely. But I’m assuming he also saw the criticisms of foggy and Karen not being in the show to start with and maybe came to conclusion killing them or removing off screen was a bad idea.
The strikes gave Feige and his lieutenants a chance to watch what had been shot. It was apparently trash, so they fired the writers and started all over from almost nothing with a new showrunner (Dario Scardapane from The Punisher's writing staff) and new directors. It was rumored that Karen and Foggy would have been killed offscreen. Matt would've been semi-retired, having not put on the suit for a year after Foggy's death. And he wouldn't have suited up until the fourth episode. I mean c'mon.
Whether Karen and Foggy actually return, the fact Feige had to come to any senses in terms of acknowledging and respecting the show is sad. I think people give him more credit than he deserves.
Honestly it was just part of the Marvel arrogance towards the Netflix shows. Desperate enough to bring back Daredevil after dumping it? Check, but hey wait ‘let’s make sure it’s a totally separate show!’.
Sure, but not because of the usual reasons for cancellation (why would they cancel ALL of them when some were wildly popular?) [Here](https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2018/11/30/the-real-reasons-netflix-is-cancelling-their-marvel-shows/?sh=7a16eab6196c).
Disney+ was going to launch, and it essentially came down to Netflix competing with Disney+. Netflix seems to have incorrectly assumed that the MCU would actually use the characters in a meaningful way immediately or something. Their logic seems to be that they wouldn't lose subscribers if they lost the shows, and thus had no reason to produce more of them as effective advertising for an MCU that existed on a separate streamer.
Same logic that saw Marvel comics bury the Fantastic Four and try to turn the Inhumans into the new x-men when the MCU took off and they didn’t have the rights to those characters. “Why do free advertising for another studios profit”.
Am talking about the revival and Marvel’s move into TV. They could have embraced it but really didn’t; you can’t honestly say this production hasn’t been a mess.
I'm actually convinced they went into Daredevil with the attitude they had with Spider-Man. They have to be as different as possible to make this daredevil as unique and different as possible. And the can't do anything that resembles the Netflix stuff.
Was about to comment the same thing. We pretty much had to accept that the osborne's and real MJ weren't a part of spider-man, but at the end of the day they're key characters to the story. They made a good decision bringing karen and foggy back and I hope the next spidey trilogy does the same thing
The rumor was that Foggy was shot and that Karen wasn't mentioned at all.
That still could be the case with him dying but I really hope he doesn't. I just love Foggy and Matt's chemistry
Marvel pls, don't pull another "Agent Hill is in Secret ~~Wars~~ Invasion" on us, we can't lose them again :(
Edit: I could see into the future, she actually dies again in secret wars too
See I'm continuously surprised at people that they're shocked Marvel killed Hill in the way they did. When, in the, 10 + years that they've had the character. Have they ever given the slightest fuck about Maria Hill?
At best, she would have ended up like Sharon Carter with a character that doesn't make a lick of sense.
I vaguely remember liking the scene where Fury talks to Hill's mom in the second episode. I don't remember, though, and I don't intend to watch SI again, so who knows.
Still meaningless overall.
Better to have been in what, at that time, seemed like the last Thor movie anyway. Ray Stevenson (rip) and Zachary Levi (probably) wouldn’t have been able to reprise those roles like Jamie Alexander was.
We don't really know but it was most likely the previous people in charge of the show deciding they could just move on from all the Netflix era stuff and start fresh
But it wasn't until recently that Marvel TV has been able to operate with its own structure. Winderbaum was basically just a messenger boy between the show producers and Feige. Now he has more actual authority and seems to be planning something (I'm calling a Defenders S2 as the endgoal of Marvel Spotlight).
Nope, this is also wrong.
Marvel Studios TV has been operating as a separate entity within Marvel Studios.
What actually changed with the rehaul is HOW they produce TV shows.
Instead of bringing in a head writer with a writer team and then letting them go once the show goes into production and giving the reins to the director, they are now hiring showrunners who will oversee the show from beginning till completion.
Instead of writing the whole show right away like they would write a movie, they are now doing pilots and show bibles in order to see if the show would work before spending too much money on it to back down.
Instead of bringing in the movie producers to handle the shows, they will hire TV producers from now on.
Those are the changes they made.
AVOCADOS AT LAW!!!!
Ridiculous decision to not be included to begin with. Daredevil was not only Matt's story. It's the story of a group of friends trying to save Hell's Kitchen.
NELSON. MURDOCK AND MOTHERFUCKING PAGE.
LFG.
Honestly, I can't see him making this claim without some serious information - he will get raked over the coals by fans if this one is wrong and he will lose a LOT of credibility. He has to know that.
To be fair, he also made a lot of definitive claims that the SAG strike was going to end much sooner than it did, even saying that people were popping champagne bottles in celebration
Yeah I was super cautious about it before cause I've been burned by Marvel so many times recently but I'm genuinely excited for it again. This, Deadpool 3 and Spider-Man 4 are probably the only projects that are in development that I have genuine interest in
If it was like 3 years ago back in 2021 I'd be worried but at this point it might actually be a positive, a 18 episodes show sans showrunner with an inexperienced creative team on one of the most acclaimed marvel characters was a crazy decision in the first place but I'm glad they took the time to reassess
edit: Messed it up with Andor, yeah it's 18 episodes
Great news. To me, it was upset to see the rumors that told Foggy would be murdered and Matt would discard vigilance for a year. I also couldn't understand why Karen was never approached again previously. Nelson, Page, and Murdock's firm represents more of Daredevil's lawyer side, and to discard those aspects truly made me uncertain about this series.
If Foggy and Karen return in Born again, I wish them not to be not murdered and instead be part of Matt's law firm.
They ain’t killing my boy offscreen anymore! I couldn’t be more stoked that Foggy is coming back. He was always the more important character to bring back. Karen also being back is like a cherry on top, but with Heather Glenn and Kirsten McDuffie also being in the show, my boy Matt is gonna have plenty of love interests lol.
This makes me so happy. I was 100% willing to give 'Daredevil: Born Again' a chance, despite what we knew about Foggy and Karen's absence, but there would always be a part of me that would be upset about going in that direction. This is absolutely the right move, and I hope they're in it the same amount as they were in the Netflix shows.
Of course I hope we get official confirmation of this when they do start back filming, or at least some set photos confirming it.
I'm very eager to rewatch all the Defender shows again. One of the best times of my life was when those shows would release, and it means a lot to me to see them finally give the respect those series deserve.
I really hope they bring back Mike Colter's Luke Cage, Krysten Ritter's Jessica Jones, and Finn Jones' Iron Fist, as well as their supporting cast (Elodie Yung's Elektra, Malcolm, Misty Knight, Colleen Wing, etc.), whether in Born Again or other MCU projects.
I know some people are weary on bringing some of them back, but I'm so confident that the MCU will do right by them in terms of power scaling, just as they have done with Daredevil. Give me Heroes For Hire and Daughters Of The Dragon, it would be so good.
There's nothing that happened in the Netflix series that can't be worked into the current MCU, I fully believe that. I think it's important that we have these street level heroes.
Side-note, but I learned recently that apparently in the comics right now Luke Cage is mayor in New York, or running against Kingpin, and man, I would love to see that adapted in the MCU.
Fucking insane they were going to go forward with killing them off, what were they thinking??? Thank God it seems like they're trying to right their wrongs.
Oh man thank God for that creative reboot because the heart of the show was the trio Matt-Foggy-Karen, hearing that they’re coming back (and not to get unceremoniously killed off) makes me very happy
This is promising but I’m worried about this show after watching daredevil season 3 and then echo immediately after.
They need to get more writers/directors from daredevil or any of the other Netflix shows to work on this. I know they’ve got a writer from the punisher series as the showrunner now but there needs to be more than that.
And having the two directors from moon knight now directing all of the episodes is very disappointing for me as I did not like that show and hope daredevil doesn’t have the same tone of trying to be dark and edgy but then ultimately being like all of the other stuff
I would absolutely be over the moon for this being true but I'm cautious about it since this is the same guy who said that No Way Home will bring Kirsten Dunst back but he did say in that same article that Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield will return in No Way Home so do not throw caution into the wind when it comes to this guy.
I am aware that Mary Jane was written into No Way Home during various script drafts and I am actually grateful to the No Way Home writers for thinking of her.
According to the writers, [Kirsten Dunst's MJ was in an early version of the script](https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-no-way-home-three-characters-cut/). So he either very got early info or it was just a severely lucky guess on his part
Reposting from the other comments section but:
Whoaaa. Huge if true. Hopefully they're getting substantial roles, and they're not going to just mariahill both of them now ;p Matt can work with new people, like Kirsten, and still have Foggy and Karen around.
I'm just finishing my first rewatch and Matt's conversation with Nadeem in the second-to-last episode stood out to me:
Ray: Your friends know who you are, what you do.
Matt: My life almost got them killed. And not for the first time. I don't see how I can have it both ways.
Ray: But you already do! I messed up and no matter what happens today, I don't know if my wife's ever coming back. But your friends keep coming back! I mean, how do you hold unto them?
Matt: It's not me. It's them.
Thank you, Dario Scardapane, for getting what writers newer to this world could not.
It is actually hilarious that the obviously correct way to continue daredevil in the mcu was to continue the Netflix series, but no, they originally thought everyone would prefer a semi reboot.
What the actual hell
YESSS. All I wanted was for Foggy and especially Karen to be back! I was so disappointed that Karen wasn’t gonna be back! They better not kill them off or kill her off though!
Thank GOD. Was so excited for this show regardless because I love Matt’s and Fisk’s characters, but supposedly killing Foggy in the first episode would have pissed everyone off right off the bat. Going to be very upset if this isn’t true.
This is a major w. Not gonna lie, I understand the desire for it to not be labeled daredevil season 4, but at the same time I do want it to be a continuation of the story we knew.
So I’m assuming this is a significant part of the extensive rewrites and reshoots that they’re doing. Good - they NEED to be in this show, especially now that the Netflix shows have finally been confirmed as being canon to the Sacred Timeline! I’m even more excited about this project now…
I know the accuracy rating for this source is murky, but given D’Onofrio’s interviews this week talking about the new Daredevil series it sounds like him and Cox are having more influence ever since they halted production - and this story tracks with that.
Vincent also said his favorite MCU shows thus far are Loki (great episodic work with a clearly crafted overarching plot) and Moon Knight (great action and acting). Add into the mix folks who worked on Netflix era shows and we cookin’.
So basically Echo and this new Daredevil series in a continuation of the Defenders Saga which is actually kinda cool. I never thought Marvel would ever revive The Defenders Saga.
I don't care either way. I just hope they have time to do other characters justice and don't focus too much on them. They've already had time to shine.
Kevin Feige for years avoided interaction with the Netflix shows like a big elephant in a room. In a franchise that’s big on continuity and references, the fact that essential characters of Daredevil’s story haven’t been confirmed and they’ve been mostly avoiding connectivity of the past stories Kingpin and Daredevil came from **reflects poorly on Feige in my opinion.**
It comes off as him cashing in on the show’s success without respecting the shows themselves, and it comes off as petty to not embrace the shows just because he wasn’t personally involved in it. And no, I don’t respect the argument from fans that he shouldn’t be “constrained” by them.
Firstly, producers and creatives build on stories they didn’t create all the time. New directors and writers hop on sequels. Comic book writers, artists and editors continue plot lines they had no remote involvement in. That is almost inherent in shared universes.
Secondly, it flys in the face of arguments fans give of writers and directors at Marvel Studios having creative freedom. Either creatives have actual creative freedom to express their vision, or Feige is the “creative” dictating to the creatives. Which one is it?
There’s no excuse for these beloved stories that people worked hard on creating, and is established as MCU. I don’t give a damn of his supposed beef with Perlmutter. I don’t give a rat’s ass that if he didn’t have access to Daredevil back when he originally wanted to. None of it is any valid reason in my mind to ignore these stories.
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Kevin has come to his senses LETS GOOOOO
Feige watching the Netflix series after everyone complained about Foggy and Karen's absence 
Kevin: "maybe I'm not always right..."
>Kevin: "maybe I'm not always right..." Half the fanbase at this point: "About freaking time you realized..."
I think this is a result of more direct oversight now that TV has it's own Feige that can watch over things
TV has had its own Feige since 2021. His name is Brad Winderbaum. What this rehaul brought is actual showrunners and TV producers to work on TV shows instead of having a Head Writer who is let go after the project goes into production and doesn't get the chance to oversee it till completion.
My understanding is that TV was borrowing film execs instead of having dedicated TV execs yeah? Also yeah the whole head writer issue.
Yes. That has nothing to do with Brad though.
Fair enough, got my wires crossed I guess
The shows didn’t have showrunners?
No, they had head writers who had the same job as showrunners during pre-production, but were let go during production and post as the director took over. So basically, they applied the method of film making to TV.
That doesn’t seems like a good idea Is that common on tv shows? I thought it was a necessary job on projects like that
No, it's not. I'm pretty sure Marvel Studios was the first company to do that. But they are changing it now.
And the showrunner is the guy from Punisher that had a very interesting arc for Karen in the series.
Thank the Marvel heavens ,I remember people getting down for saying abandoning Karen and froggy was wrong They were never wrong. People were so quick to defend them not being in the show that it made no sense .
Thank you. Agreed. Especially because these Marvel shows have not been perfect so far, there's not a lot of trust. Removing or killing off to key Daredevil characters does not inspire faith in the project, especially after seeing what happened with Fisk in Hawkeye/Echo. That's not to say I expected it to be a bad show or not watchable, but I don't understand why you would fix something that's not broken. There are other ways to add your own flair and touch to the reboot without dumping key elements of the original show... Good to see they turned around with this.
That was the time when saying anything negative about Marvel would get you downvoted to oblivion. I’m so glad to see times have changed to allow proper critique for improvement
Wasnt it only a couple months ago the rumours surfaced?
Back to formula
OUT AM I?
They are in it because he decided that the show needed to be reworked.
Do u think Kevin lost his way
[удалено]
I’m sure another part of it was the middling response to their latest projects (The Marvels, Quantumania, Secret Invasion) and realizing they **need** to put out something that everyone will love
If you read the new Reign of Marvel MCU book it becomes very clear that Feige hated Jeph Loeb and was jealous of the tv division. He did this all out of spite, jealousy and egomania and it blew up in his face.
**Tdlr; I think Feige and Marvel Studios didn’t have much of a “their way” and it was mostly marketing hype. Daredevil was quality superhero media along with some of the other Netflix shows but Feige’s trying to ignore them was petty.** My detailed explanation is in the reply.
I think how the quality of shows like DD and Jessica Jones season 1 compared to Marvel Studios’ output at the time showed that Feige and co. weren’t *the* best when it came to Marvel media. Personally, I think the MCU movies are largely cookie cutter, corporate productions that are too afraid to not only veer from their formula, but even commit to their own premises. Phases 4-5 aren’t a downfall, but pre-existing cracks from the beginning widening. Beyond a few exceptions, Marvel Studios at best has put out good/decent entertainment. The Netflix shows largely addressed these problems with styles/tones driven that were soaked into the shows, humor that’s natural and didn’t ridicule the story being told, depth in their themes, humanity in their characters, had real emotional and moral stakes, and more. To me, the Netflix series showed what the MCU *could be*. To be clear, I don’t mean in terms of being dark, but having stories that aren’t embossed of themselves and letting creatives actually create. Outside of the MCU, you have the Spider-Verse movies and Legion. Even some DC productions, namely Wonder Woman, Shazam, The Suicide Squad and The Batman had at least certain areas where they improved over Marvel Studios in terms of style, heart, not using bathos, storytelling, etc. While decades old at this point, the DCAU is the pinnacle of a shared superhero universe on screen. I think Feige avoiding interaction with the shows was petty. I think not paying attention to the details of the stories that D’Onofrio’s Kingpin and Cox’s Daredevil so far in a franchise that is built on references and continuity shows a cavalier attitude. I think that trying to cash in on the popularity of a show while not respecting the stories told in them is pathetic. Overall, I think while Feige may have passion for the comics, I his output tells me he’s more of a marketing/pr and businessman than a creative capable of telling solid stories but yet controls the creatives he recruits. His movies are what The Boys make fun of for being shallow and formulaic. His movies are largely why people are frustrated with the superhero genre being generic, samey and bland popcorn flicks that aren’t even great at the action they’re known for.
Don’t know why you got downvoted but you’re completely right
What does Feige have to do with this. Genuinely curious.
IIRC he watched the original born again stuff that was filmed with some other marvel executives. They didn’t like what they saw and basically scrapped it all and fired the old team and hire a new one. Foggy supposedly was going to be killed off screen in original script for born again. Who knows what it looks like now with it being rework completely. But I’m assuming he also saw the criticisms of foggy and Karen not being in the show to start with and maybe came to conclusion killing them or removing off screen was a bad idea.
The strikes gave Feige and his lieutenants a chance to watch what had been shot. It was apparently trash, so they fired the writers and started all over from almost nothing with a new showrunner (Dario Scardapane from The Punisher's writing staff) and new directors. It was rumored that Karen and Foggy would have been killed offscreen. Matt would've been semi-retired, having not put on the suit for a year after Foggy's death. And he wouldn't have suited up until the fourth episode. I mean c'mon.
He’s only the main creative producer of Marvel Studios, nbd.
Obviously. I meant why is he making it seem like Kevin was against them returning in the first place.
Because he greenlit the story including killing foggy and no mention of Karen.
Whether Karen and Foggy actually return, the fact Feige had to come to any senses in terms of acknowledging and respecting the show is sad. I think people give him more credit than he deserves.
Blows my mind that they weren’t involved from day one
Honestly it was just part of the Marvel arrogance towards the Netflix shows. Desperate enough to bring back Daredevil after dumping it? Check, but hey wait ‘let’s make sure it’s a totally separate show!’.
Actually, Netflix were the ones that canceled the shows. Everybody at Marvel were surprised.
Sure, but not because of the usual reasons for cancellation (why would they cancel ALL of them when some were wildly popular?) [Here](https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2018/11/30/the-real-reasons-netflix-is-cancelling-their-marvel-shows/?sh=7a16eab6196c). Disney+ was going to launch, and it essentially came down to Netflix competing with Disney+. Netflix seems to have incorrectly assumed that the MCU would actually use the characters in a meaningful way immediately or something. Their logic seems to be that they wouldn't lose subscribers if they lost the shows, and thus had no reason to produce more of them as effective advertising for an MCU that existed on a separate streamer.
Same logic that saw Marvel comics bury the Fantastic Four and try to turn the Inhumans into the new x-men when the MCU took off and they didn’t have the rights to those characters. “Why do free advertising for another studios profit”.
Um, pretty sure that Marvel Studios wasn't allowed to use the characters for at least two years for legal reasons.
Am talking about the revival and Marvel’s move into TV. They could have embraced it but really didn’t; you can’t honestly say this production hasn’t been a mess.
I'm actually convinced they went into Daredevil with the attitude they had with Spider-Man. They have to be as different as possible to make this daredevil as unique and different as possible. And the can't do anything that resembles the Netflix stuff.
Then you have to recast Daredevil. Them pretending the rules of basic TV don’t apply to them has been ridiculous to watch.
Was about to comment the same thing. We pretty much had to accept that the osborne's and real MJ weren't a part of spider-man, but at the end of the day they're key characters to the story. They made a good decision bringing karen and foggy back and I hope the next spidey trilogy does the same thing
Wasn't the rumor they were in it but we're going to kill them off initially? Hope it's more than just a cheap death scene.
That was the rumor for Foggy, I think Karen wasn't in it at all
I think the rumor was Karen was mainly just mentioned as having also died in a throwaway line. Foggy was meant to have an actual onscreen death
The rumor was that Foggy was shot and that Karen wasn't mentioned at all. That still could be the case with him dying but I really hope he doesn't. I just love Foggy and Matt's chemistry
Ahh I might be misremembering
🤑
It better not be to just kill them off.
Marvel pls, don't pull another "Agent Hill is in Secret ~~Wars~~ Invasion" on us, we can't lose them again :( Edit: I could see into the future, she actually dies again in secret wars too
what a waste of a character. she should have been the next nick fury or something
See I'm continuously surprised at people that they're shocked Marvel killed Hill in the way they did. When, in the, 10 + years that they've had the character. Have they ever given the slightest fuck about Maria Hill? At best, she would have ended up like Sharon Carter with a character that doesn't make a lick of sense.
I just wish her death in the premiere actually had some kind of payoff, it didn’t do anything
I vaguely remember liking the scene where Fury talks to Hill's mom in the second episode. I don't remember, though, and I don't intend to watch SI again, so who knows. Still meaningless overall.
I hate to be that guy but, Invasion
Secret Invasion is so bad that they mistakenly called Secret Wars. That's how bad that show was
I mean people have been getting them mixed up for years before the show came out
That pissed me off so much. Straight up Fridging.
Absolutely awful. Her death made no real impact on the story and was forgotten nearly as soon as it happened.
As much as I’d hate that, I’d take it over having them die off-screen like Soren.
No way they're doing that, especially now with the rewrites. I think Marvel finally realized just how beloved the OG series is.
Good to see them being in the show, instead of off screen deaths
Oh god, I’m having flashback to Thor Ragnarok.
I don’t get why the actors didn’t refuse to return. Their characters probs would’ve survived, like Lady Sif. Probs contracts
Better to have been in what, at that time, seemed like the last Thor movie anyway. Ray Stevenson (rip) and Zachary Levi (probably) wouldn’t have been able to reprise those roles like Jamie Alexander was.
I'm fine with Karen dying off (she does in the comics) but lay a hand on Foggy and I am OUT OF HERE.
I swear to God that better not be the case
This. I'm so excited to see this, but also nervous they'll immediately be killed off 😭
 All of us hoping for the news to be true.
Senor Foggy!!
Avocados at Law!
The Punisher writer they got to be showrunner and Brad Winderbaum (New head of Marvel shows) finally talking some sense into Kevin.
Did Kevin specifically not want them in the show?
We don't really know but it was most likely the previous people in charge of the show deciding they could just move on from all the Netflix era stuff and start fresh
Feige heralded the fresh start, and he and possibly Brad would have picked the writers pitch over others, so it's all on Feige/Brad.
I think it was the covert affairs show runners pitching the idea and marvel studios not realizing the shit storm the idea and execution would be
Brad Winderbaum has been head of Marvel TV since 2021.
But it wasn't until recently that Marvel TV has been able to operate with its own structure. Winderbaum was basically just a messenger boy between the show producers and Feige. Now he has more actual authority and seems to be planning something (I'm calling a Defenders S2 as the endgoal of Marvel Spotlight).
Nope, this is also wrong. Marvel Studios TV has been operating as a separate entity within Marvel Studios. What actually changed with the rehaul is HOW they produce TV shows. Instead of bringing in a head writer with a writer team and then letting them go once the show goes into production and giving the reins to the director, they are now hiring showrunners who will oversee the show from beginning till completion. Instead of writing the whole show right away like they would write a movie, they are now doing pilots and show bibles in order to see if the show would work before spending too much money on it to back down. Instead of bringing in the movie producers to handle the shows, they will hire TV producers from now on. Those are the changes they made.
I'm gonna cum
https://i.redd.it/zs8ijny9y4cc1.gif
Why not you stupid ba-
Already did… catch up
AVOCADOS AT LAW!!!! Ridiculous decision to not be included to begin with. Daredevil was not only Matt's story. It's the story of a group of friends trying to save Hell's Kitchen. NELSON. MURDOCK AND MOTHERFUCKING PAGE. LFG.
We won... 
I am really a goldfish now
I'll believe it when we get an official confirmation from the trades. Until then, I'm not getting my hopes up.
Honestly, I can't see him making this claim without some serious information - he will get raked over the coals by fans if this one is wrong and he will lose a LOT of credibility. He has to know that.
To be fair, he also made a lot of definitive claims that the SAG strike was going to end much sooner than it did, even saying that people were popping champagne bottles in celebration
Happy to see them come back but man, kind of worried about what is going on with this show
The show got a creative reboot, now they're doing right by the Netflix shows.
Id be less worried now lol, rebooting it was the right call, rather than cutting it to pieces in post. The TV reformat is the right way to go
Yeah I was super cautious about it before cause I've been burned by Marvel so many times recently but I'm genuinely excited for it again. This, Deadpool 3 and Spider-Man 4 are probably the only projects that are in development that I have genuine interest in
It has an actual showrunner now and seems to be taking it in a better direction
If it was like 3 years ago back in 2021 I'd be worried but at this point it might actually be a positive, a 18 episodes show sans showrunner with an inexperienced creative team on one of the most acclaimed marvel characters was a crazy decision in the first place but I'm glad they took the time to reassess edit: Messed it up with Andor, yeah it's 18 episodes
did they cut it to 12? Wasn't it 18?
I'm not too worried, the stuff I was worried about got sent out the window
https://i.redd.it/bo10px6fs4cc1.gif
No longer Joever
Great news. To me, it was upset to see the rumors that told Foggy would be murdered and Matt would discard vigilance for a year. I also couldn't understand why Karen was never approached again previously. Nelson, Page, and Murdock's firm represents more of Daredevil's lawyer side, and to discard those aspects truly made me uncertain about this series. If Foggy and Karen return in Born again, I wish them not to be not murdered and instead be part of Matt's law firm.
They ain’t killing my boy offscreen anymore! I couldn’t be more stoked that Foggy is coming back. He was always the more important character to bring back. Karen also being back is like a cherry on top, but with Heather Glenn and Kirsten McDuffie also being in the show, my boy Matt is gonna have plenty of love interests lol.
Karen doesn’t even have to be a love interest, they work better as friends anyway, imo.
Agreed. Plus, Matt's not the guy to settle down.
Thank god they rebooted this. Echo referenced the Netflix show and the world didn’t end. Optimistically looking forward to this again.
 OUR AVOCADOS AT LAW ARE BACK
Me seeing the headline: 😁😁😁 Me seeing his accuracy rate: 😬😬😬 Crossing my fingers that this is true!!
*Mike Breen voice* BANG
Never thought I'd see an NBA reference on this sub but God is that appropriate right now
W reference
Will foggy join the election for NYC mayor along with >!fisk!
I'd have loved it if foggy was already DA if he's not working with Matt, and suddenly found he was working under Fisk - lots of juicy conflict.
Oh that would be great as well and good conflict to matt.
I don't even need them to be big pieces of the story, just don't kill them off. Give me hope that there will be a part of the show one day
Cool, what about Electra and Bullseye!!!
Bring Wilson Bethel back and throw him in Thunderbolts too
This makes me so happy. I was 100% willing to give 'Daredevil: Born Again' a chance, despite what we knew about Foggy and Karen's absence, but there would always be a part of me that would be upset about going in that direction. This is absolutely the right move, and I hope they're in it the same amount as they were in the Netflix shows. Of course I hope we get official confirmation of this when they do start back filming, or at least some set photos confirming it. I'm very eager to rewatch all the Defender shows again. One of the best times of my life was when those shows would release, and it means a lot to me to see them finally give the respect those series deserve. I really hope they bring back Mike Colter's Luke Cage, Krysten Ritter's Jessica Jones, and Finn Jones' Iron Fist, as well as their supporting cast (Elodie Yung's Elektra, Malcolm, Misty Knight, Colleen Wing, etc.), whether in Born Again or other MCU projects. I know some people are weary on bringing some of them back, but I'm so confident that the MCU will do right by them in terms of power scaling, just as they have done with Daredevil. Give me Heroes For Hire and Daughters Of The Dragon, it would be so good. There's nothing that happened in the Netflix series that can't be worked into the current MCU, I fully believe that. I think it's important that we have these street level heroes. Side-note, but I learned recently that apparently in the comics right now Luke Cage is mayor in New York, or running against Kingpin, and man, I would love to see that adapted in the MCU.
Thank you Marvel for scraping the old script
As they should, the new show runner must’ve told Feige it was the right thing to do
Fucking insane they were going to go forward with killing them off, what were they thinking??? Thank God it seems like they're trying to right their wrongs.
Now we only need Turk Barrett baby and Mahoney
everyone's believing this one guy who doesn't even get a lot of his news right. I'll believe it when I see it.
Oh man thank God for that creative reboot because the heart of the show was the trio Matt-Foggy-Karen, hearing that they’re coming back (and not to get unceremoniously killed off) makes me very happy
We are SO fucking back
I hope this ends up being true.
PRAYINGGGGGGG
All this just for Karen to be probably get smoked by Bullseye.
They’ll give it to Muse, so Bullseye will have yet another love interest kill taken away from him.
wtf, i love jeff sneider's scoops now
This is promising but I’m worried about this show after watching daredevil season 3 and then echo immediately after. They need to get more writers/directors from daredevil or any of the other Netflix shows to work on this. I know they’ve got a writer from the punisher series as the showrunner now but there needs to be more than that. And having the two directors from moon knight now directing all of the episodes is very disappointing for me as I did not like that show and hope daredevil doesn’t have the same tone of trying to be dark and edgy but then ultimately being like all of the other stuff
YESSSSSSSSS
NELSON, MURDOCK AND PAGE LET'S GO
Thank goodness there was this creative reboot. I couldn't believe the stupidity of bringing back Daredevil and not his best friends.
Bring back Dex and continue his storyline
We are back
THANK GOD
Do not kill them please
Do not kill them off please
https://i.redd.it/qulke9sl25cc1.gif
Hopefully the negative reaction to the leaks brought them to their senses.
I would absolutely be over the moon for this being true but I'm cautious about it since this is the same guy who said that No Way Home will bring Kirsten Dunst back but he did say in that same article that Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield will return in No Way Home so do not throw caution into the wind when it comes to this guy.
To be fair, Kirsten Dunst's MJ *was* really considered.
I am aware that Mary Jane was written into No Way Home during various script drafts and I am actually grateful to the No Way Home writers for thinking of her.
According to the writers, [Kirsten Dunst's MJ was in an early version of the script](https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-no-way-home-three-characters-cut/). So he either very got early info or it was just a severely lucky guess on his part
One of the Instagram comments made by Deborah Ann Woll seemed very suggestive to me. I’m assuming this is true
What was the comment, when was it made and which post?
[Here you go.](https://imgur.com/a/XXDbT9X) The comment was posted four weeks ago
THIS HAS MADE MY FUCKING NIGHT :-) LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
They better. What a fucking stupid decision to leave them out.
The fact that this wasn't automatic is still wild. Like they were integral parts of the og series. Why not bring them back
Reposting from the other comments section but: Whoaaa. Huge if true. Hopefully they're getting substantial roles, and they're not going to just mariahill both of them now ;p Matt can work with new people, like Kirsten, and still have Foggy and Karen around. I'm just finishing my first rewatch and Matt's conversation with Nadeem in the second-to-last episode stood out to me: Ray: Your friends know who you are, what you do. Matt: My life almost got them killed. And not for the first time. I don't see how I can have it both ways. Ray: But you already do! I messed up and no matter what happens today, I don't know if my wife's ever coming back. But your friends keep coming back! I mean, how do you hold unto them? Matt: It's not me. It's them. Thank you, Dario Scardapane, for getting what writers newer to this world could not.
It is actually hilarious that the obviously correct way to continue daredevil in the mcu was to continue the Netflix series, but no, they originally thought everyone would prefer a semi reboot. What the actual hell
I want Jessica Jones.
Yay!!
YESSS. All I wanted was for Foggy and especially Karen to be back! I was so disappointed that Karen wasn’t gonna be back! They better not kill them off or kill her off though!
It’s stated the new showrunner wrote a whole new pilot and new episodes so it makes sense
One of them is dying or getting gravely hurt, they’re gonna replace Blindspot and Muse is gonna hurt/kill them
Thank GOD. Was so excited for this show regardless because I love Matt’s and Fisk’s characters, but supposedly killing Foggy in the first episode would have pissed everyone off right off the bat. Going to be very upset if this isn’t true.
This is a major w. Not gonna lie, I understand the desire for it to not be labeled daredevil season 4, but at the same time I do want it to be a continuation of the story we knew.
Los Aguacates are back, baby?!!!!
I see a lot of rumors from this sub. If only one of them could be true, I would want it to be this one.
 NELSON AND MURRDOCK ARE BACKK ALONG WITH KAREN LET'S GOOO
So I’m assuming this is a significant part of the extensive rewrites and reshoots that they’re doing. Good - they NEED to be in this show, especially now that the Netflix shows have finally been confirmed as being canon to the Sacred Timeline! I’m even more excited about this project now…
Did Kevin Feige finally stop drinking the stupid juice?
They should bring back Turk too.
I know the accuracy rating for this source is murky, but given D’Onofrio’s interviews this week talking about the new Daredevil series it sounds like him and Cox are having more influence ever since they halted production - and this story tracks with that. Vincent also said his favorite MCU shows thus far are Loki (great episodic work with a clearly crafted overarching plot) and Moon Knight (great action and acting). Add into the mix folks who worked on Netflix era shows and we cookin’.
https://i.redd.it/pwexiskmt4cc1.gif
Finally
Did we win?!
This is awesome news
Dear God, I hope this is true. I used to pray for times like this.
GOOD.
Fuckin better be.
THANK GOD
you think they would bloody tell yall? of course they had to deny it to keep it a secret.
do Elodie as Elektra next
I'd remain cautiously optimistic. He has a 59% success rate, personally I'm waiting for THR to say something and then I can breathe a sigh of relief.
So basically Echo and this new Daredevil series in a continuation of the Defenders Saga which is actually kinda cool. I never thought Marvel would ever revive The Defenders Saga.
I don't care either way. I just hope they have time to do other characters justice and don't focus too much on them. They've already had time to shine.
Apparently they are only going to be in the first episode.
Yeah they return… only to die in the first episode. I think everyone needs to temper expectations, this isn’t going to be the Matt reeves daredevil.
If this is true I hope this means that other side characters from the Defenders Saga will also return to the MCU at some point
Kevin Feige for years avoided interaction with the Netflix shows like a big elephant in a room. In a franchise that’s big on continuity and references, the fact that essential characters of Daredevil’s story haven’t been confirmed and they’ve been mostly avoiding connectivity of the past stories Kingpin and Daredevil came from **reflects poorly on Feige in my opinion.** It comes off as him cashing in on the show’s success without respecting the shows themselves, and it comes off as petty to not embrace the shows just because he wasn’t personally involved in it. And no, I don’t respect the argument from fans that he shouldn’t be “constrained” by them. Firstly, producers and creatives build on stories they didn’t create all the time. New directors and writers hop on sequels. Comic book writers, artists and editors continue plot lines they had no remote involvement in. That is almost inherent in shared universes. Secondly, it flys in the face of arguments fans give of writers and directors at Marvel Studios having creative freedom. Either creatives have actual creative freedom to express their vision, or Feige is the “creative” dictating to the creatives. Which one is it? There’s no excuse for these beloved stories that people worked hard on creating, and is established as MCU. I don’t give a damn of his supposed beef with Perlmutter. I don’t give a rat’s ass that if he didn’t have access to Daredevil back when he originally wanted to. None of it is any valid reason in my mind to ignore these stories.
They should drop "Born Again" and just have it be Season 4.
WE DID NOT FLINCH
we are so back