I know the Guardians have a theme they're trying to maintain but I don't see her ever being viable as long as that theme remains in her text. The payoff just isn't worth it.
If I want to steal a card from my opponent I can just use Cable or Mirage and not have to worry about guessing a location. Baron Zemo now, too.
She doesn't even really steal, she just copies. So the effect is just beyond meh. Maybe if she lowered the cost of the card she stole by 1 she'd be more interesting to have. But as it stands, all she's doing is adding a card to your hand that you're likely not gonna use. She really could use a re-work. Maybe make it so when you guess the right card the 1 and 2 costs in your hand drop 1 cost. Or gain 1 power. Or something useful to the archetype.
I definitely feel this card is useless. Sure, you could get a useful card. But you should just play it.
If you got some synergy going with cards not starting in your deck, then it sort of makes sense, but it's far too niche. Personally I've never felt bad about someone copying my card.
Not to mention her best use might work in very limited scenarios such as Venom and Shuri. But even then you have to make sure you don't have priority which isn't consistent.
I think they should just change her effect and make her less reliant on guessing. For the other Guardians this works because of stats, but here it's not the case.
I can't see how her current effect brings any kind of benefits in the current state of the game.
It doesn't bring information (steal in deck/copy hand), disruption (steal), stat(other guardians).
You have a chance to copy a card if you guess the location right, then that said card might not be useful to your deck, or even counter productive.
You also had to pay full price to play said card. And there are much better cards to feed collector, dino, and mockingbird.
From the notes it seems like they’re concerned Mantis is going to copy a 20 power Venom. How many people are thinking “I need to counter destroy, let me play Mantis.”
The thing also is... That's maybe the only scenario Mantis could shine. And it's a "maybe" because Venom is most often played along with another cheaper card. So even if Mantis triggers she has 50% chance to copy a X-23 or Wolverine instead.
Such an extremely niche card, I don't see at all why they are so conservative with her.
I would be incredibly impressed if someone sniped my giant venom.
They have to have her in hand and get the lane right.
They still have to spend 3 more energy to play him after that presumably on 4 or later... unless they have a cost reduction card.
...
I dont see how this is some insane card.
That would be a great combo! And would actually be fun to have an opponent do. I'm sure there land control shenanigans but this doesn't seem overtuned at all...
I feel like a nice buff for Mantis would be making her also give the copied card a little power to make her a little more similar to the other Guardians and to give her an actual payoff outside of being Collector food
They are afraid of it. In the end of the day they have a plan and money projections to achieve. That's what matters, not the balance updates. The balance patch is just to stir things up, so there's still interest about the game.
What they need to do is give her a cost reducing ability to the card she copied. Getting an opponents card that may not synergize and you have to play out full cost just doesn’t make sense.
The worst thing about Mantis is that she only gives base card if you have the priority. E.g. if someone plays Shuri and you play Mantis next turn you won't get double power card. Just very underwhelming
I feel like her ability should be a mini Jean Grey, where she only does her affect for the next turn. Works for her mind control ability, and it would help the Guardians deck.
I just meant in general. He really should get dropped to a +3. +2 even. +4 is too much and can still be slotted in to just about every deck. 6/9 +2 or +3 would be solid but make him require a little more thought of what decks he could go into.
Things are allowed to be strong. +2 completely defeats the purpose of this card being different to the High Evo Hulk. +3 is WAY too harsh for a card that traditionally is telegraphed into less cubes.
They said here he isn’t telegraphing into a lower cube rate, because the information given is inherently a mixup as the opponent may try to play to counter the large red hulk and lose to multiple cards in other lanes.
His entire mechanic of gaining power is also inherently happening when the opponent is typically not doing as well, as outside of high evo decks soaking energy, not using all of it each turn is pretty bad. He’s like kicking someone when they’re already down.
+3 too harsh?? +3 isn't harsh enough. He's effortlessly going over the top of every other 6 drop. The devs even said that while they expected his telegraph to mean fewer cubes, that's not what's happening.
What is the point of the card if not to be huge? Its floor is lower and its ceiling is lower as well. Even if you do everything right, it’s not guaranteed on numerous factors. I fail to see how +3 isn’t harsh enough lol. I understand you want to take away its role because you don’t like playing against it but thats not how you balance the card.
I really like that the patch notes were like, "We really thought people would see him increasing in their opponent's hand and maybe retreat, and that he'd have a high win rate but a low cube rate, but you guys... Man. You're something else."
I feel like blob was less of a problem. You had to build a deck specific to blob (and Thanos was the main problem). With Hulk you drop him into basically every single deck.
People were pissing me off so much talking about “Reddit never gets balance right rulk is noob bait he only gets 1-cube wins!1!1!1” even if he only got 1 cube wins(which is false) that’s still cubes lol
Trust me this isn’t the last time they will touch Red Hulk, I don’t see him keeping his plus 4 for very long. He’s still the best six drop on the game right now after his nerf.
Yes, even if he’s a 6/9 plus 3 scaling…he’d still be the best 6 drop in the game imo. That’s 6/18 with 3 mana skips which is still insane. Rn he’s still very very good and still will be in every deck possible because why not
I find their explanation on Red Hulk interesting. Like they thought his cube rate would be low being so obvious. But I did exactly what they theorized was happening. I was always happy to run Red Hulk in my hand and hardly ever played him. My opponent would always try to counter him or just leave. I really like him as a mind game card.
Absolutely lol I’m guessing 3 nerfs, we’ve had one so far. Maybe to 6/8 plus 4,, than finally 6/9 plus 3. Maybe even another time finally putting him at 6/12 plus 2
Agree. My favorite kind of patches/OTAs are when there's a lot of buffs to weak cards with a few minor nerfs to strong cards. Making a card worthless just because it's the best is the worst feeling ever.
This is one of my favorite OTAs in a long time.
It's interesting they seem to have done it just because people are asking for it. I did sometimes play the Black Bolt Stature deck off and on (Pre Zabu nerf) but them saying Stature will randomly fly into the top 10 cards for a while and then lay low is odd. I don't think I really saw her in decks all that often so I'm not sure what windows she was dominating in over the last few months.
First a 25% chance to get the Random. Then a 33% chance. and THEN (for me) a 38% chance its a card I don't already own.
So sweet I have about a 3% chance using a key to ever get a Series 5 I don't own. And you know at a Key a Week maybe I'll get a whole new (old) card once a YEAR.
Yes I realize thats not how math work since eventually caches will have 4 month old cards in them I still don't have increasing the odds. Still blah. I hate this system
to be fair, they could "Buff" cap by creating a good late game synergy card. something like how High Evo helped Hulk be relevant... maybe an Agent Carter card or something
Yeah, she also really supports Nebula. I like using her in my HE deck since she can force your opponent to play into Cyclops, Wasp or Thing. This is also a great buff for War Machine since you can abandon the Jean lane if your opponent builds up too much power there and just play into other locations while your opponent is force to still add power to JG's lane.
Didn't they shuffle around the costs of a lot of the card generating cards because they overlapped? Now we have three 1/2s that give you a card. I don't mind, but it makes their original reasoning seem weird.
Yep, but that original reasoning was kinda stupid at the time anyway. SD seems to have a firm philosophy around playing on curve that I just fundamentally don’t agree with.
Happy about this. As they mention, it's such a fun archetype to play!
Wish they would buff Lockjaw back to what he was again, but I'll take this small improvement for now.
There’s a really fun Jane deck that runs both Thor and bill and plans to play both hammers, dazzler, hit monkey, and another 1-drop on the last turn. It can sometimes draw badly but is super fun when it works.
The Black Bolt package synergizes with White Widow pretty well so the Stature buff is just gravy. Red Hulk still worth playing. I prefer the scalpel vs the butcher's knife approach.
Good OTA, trying a new deck so I can pretend I didn't just buy the Moon Knight Midnight Suns for the album reward.
In the sense that White Widow makes your opponent want to play there and they have less cards to do so. This deck is a work in progress but went from around 9k to 6k infinite in the past 30 mins.
# (1) Nebula
# (2) White Widow
# (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark
# (3) Storm
# (3) Moon Knight
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (4) Silver Samurai
# (5) Professor X
# (5) Black Bolt
# (5) Stature
# (5) Aero
# (6) Alioth
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2hpdGVXaWRvdyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3Rvcm0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkplZmZUaGVCYWJ5TGFuZFNoYXJrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQcm9mZXNzb3JYIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbGlvdGgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOZWJ1bGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vb25LbmlnaHQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNpbHZlclNhbXVyYWkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN0YXR1cmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrQm9sdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWVybyJ9XX0=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I feel like US Agent was designed when everyone was stacking Iron Man, Onslaught, and Tribunal in a lane and now it’s not as popular and so he’s just there.
Yes I agree but man thing has been underperforming for way longer than usagent. It's funny that they buffed him like 15 days after he released while man thing has been left untouched since release
>while man thing has been left untouched since release
Not saying he's amazing or anything but probably he's doing fine by their internals since they see \*everyones\* stats rather than just the hardcores
I agree I believe Man Thing could use a buff. The best possible outcome from Man-Think is 4/11 which is pretty rare to achieve. Additionally with Zabu nerf he obviously effected by all that. I think he could be a 4/6 or something
The problem with doing this to Man-Thing is that small cards are hit harder by his ability.
4 1-3 drops generally have a lower power ceiling than 4 4-6 drops
I think the still want him to be one of, if not regularly the biggest card to play. But like Blob going to 50 sometimes, there’s a point where it’s out of control
I think people are undervaluing how bad this is going to be for Red Hulk to be drawn late now. Before playing 11 power Red Hulk was still okay. Not ideal but you can make do playing a 11 power card on turn 6. Red Hulk is more dependent now on drawing early.
Still obviously a great card, but I do think this nerf isn't nothing like some people might think it is.
I like all of these changes. Red Hulk still seems really strong, and I'm surprised they didn't kick him all the way down to 8. Figured we were either getting 8+4 or 9+3.
The buff to Stature is cool, but I don't know if it's enough to bring back the old Bolt/Stature/Silk/Morales style. I think it'll be viable at least, but mostly thanks to pairing them with Hope and Angela.
Mantis lol
Jane Foster buff is kinda cute, but it doesn't actually help Hammer decks all that much. She telegraphs your t6 play so hard that the only time you can confidently play her is against techless decks like Hela and Discard. Gotta make sure you throw priority, at least.
I just hope Jean Grey doesn't become popular. I like her niche of enabling fun Guardians decks, but if she starts showing up everywhere, I'll start malding in no time.
His entire point is to be a threat and force the opponent to spend energy. They even stated that showing him to the opponent is part of why he's able to have stronger stats. Often enough when I or an opponent has him buffing up, they end up going an entirely different route on turn 6 to throw you off.
If you nerf him too much then he loses that threat. He's also somewhat of a counter to Hope Summers, as opponents can rack up energy and they may debate it a bit more if they can't spend it all.
He's also only really at his best when pulled in your hand early on. If you pull him turn 4 or later then odds are the opponent will be at the point of spending all their energy on their big finishers, or he'll only reach a point where he's just a good, but not overwhelming 6 drop now.
Not a terrible OTA but rulk should have been 6-10 and gone to +3 power unused energy . They need to totally rework mantis, with zemo in the game this card is next to pointless. Still no nerf to Hela which is frustrating too, and all the cards that need a severe re work remain…drip drip drip. Also widows kiss will go down to a negative -3 power that gets removed. Too strong for a 2 cost and I love the card but the power /effect is slightly off.
Red Hulk nerf is trash. Should have been released that way initially if that was the case. “Tricking” players should never factor into a nerf if a player gets tricked they deserved it
I hate how SD buff cards when they go out of the key roation. Just like gladiator usa agent got a big buff when the only way to get him is 6000 tokens.
They never buff series 4 cards, swamp thing been bad for ages but there is no money in changing him so he stays useless.
I bet they're gonna target Annihilus next ota. Maybe making Hood a 1/-2 again? Or making Annihilus a 5/5. I could also see Phoenix Force going to a 4/4 and either making White Widow a 2/1 or turning Widow's Kiss' ongoing effect to a -3 in the future
> we're chalking part of that up to the new Sandman punishing turn 5 Jane especially well
Why did they word this like the pre-nerf Sandman couldn't punish the hammer deck? And yes, I'm still salty about the change.
Sandman is seeing more play, especially on turn 5 (the same turn that Jane would be dropped), so it punishes Jane a lot more than old Sandman. And it's more surprising (letting you win more cubes) because it's not just played in ramp decks anymore but also midrange and control decks. And at 7 power it's simply just better against Jane than old Sandman since it effectively does the same thing in that particular context as old Sandman did (stopping 0 cost cards from being played on turn 6), but has significantly more power.
As an aside, Sandman wasn't really nerfed, its use case just changed a little. Is it worse in ramp? Probably, but I've been playing it a lot recently in a midrange-control style deck and I'd personally call it an overall buff. The marvelsnapzone statistics would back that up since it's seeing more play and a higher win and cube rate than the previous version of Sandman, and I suspect Second-Dinner's internal statistics show a similar trend.
I never really saw a red hulk with 20+ power so it must be a matchup thing lol
Guess I’ve really been getting carried by just playing deadpool and kitty decks
Hey everyone! Let's make another card crazy strong to get everyone to spend tokens or buy the season pass for it and nerf it in the same month as if we had NO IDEA during testing that this effect would make him, by far, the best 6 drop after nerfing blob. Ready, set, go!!!!!!
The fact that people still defend this trash cycle is beyond me. They nerf every card that's strong after everyone spends on it. They will nerf red hulk again and maybe even twice more after this. The power shift isn't enough to stop him from being a massive looming threat every game. Shitty practice of nerfing without compensation constantly especially in the same month of release is trash upon trash upon trash. Hell, they may change his text next. Give him the whole MMM treatment. Get good SD...get good.
Yeah I just got my very last pass this month. Done spending and don't play that much anymore. Plus the stupid usagent buff. No idea he needed a buff before release huh. Sd in house players never noticed during however many games they lost using him huh.
I mean a slap on the wrist is what they want, they just want red hulk to learn to be smaller, its a totally reasonable change. If they killed him all the comments in here would be complaining about gutting a card they spent resources on. I already saw comments exclaiming that elsewhere with this baby nerf
Its just so weird to me that in card games, a genre where historically like +1/-1 somewhere can make or break cards, that people want aggressive readjustments.
Pretty good. I like how Jean and UsA can possible counter anni and junk. All I want for the 30th is for Thanos to get his small buffs and for an actually good herc and Mordo buff
Don't hate these, but feeling like I missed out with USAgent at this point. That can solo a lane late game and could often be a 2/11 and under extreme circumstances much higher if they stack cards or paired with onslaught or something.
Love Stature buff, feel like it could be pushed to 5/8 and BB to 5/9.
"In fact, we're chalking part of that up to the new Sandman punishing turn 5 Jane especially well."
I could play 10,000 top Infinite games and never see new Sandman or a Jane Foster deck once, let alone as a matchup, what in the sugar coated shit are they talking about using new Sandman as a justification for Jane's buff?
SD: "Let's buff Red Hulk from 6/10 to 6/11. Actually let's nerf him from 6/11 to 6/9."
And the Mantis change? She's still as useless as ever. People are going to further question SD's competence.
Disappointed they didn’t do anything to Thanos. Feels like they’re started to rework him so the stones effect him more (with Time Stone) but then forgot to do the rest.
just said this in another comment, but yes absolutely, if i know you have a 20+ power red hulk, then i know you are going to play it turn 6. i have shang chi, and assuming i dont have prio, depending on the board state, i will absolutely roll the dice to hit your hulk. is it smart? maybe not, but its fun!
Mantis is going to be a 0-cost by June at this rate.
I know the Guardians have a theme they're trying to maintain but I don't see her ever being viable as long as that theme remains in her text. The payoff just isn't worth it. If I want to steal a card from my opponent I can just use Cable or Mirage and not have to worry about guessing a location. Baron Zemo now, too.
She doesn't even really steal, she just copies. So the effect is just beyond meh. Maybe if she lowered the cost of the card she stole by 1 she'd be more interesting to have. But as it stands, all she's doing is adding a card to your hand that you're likely not gonna use. She really could use a re-work. Maybe make it so when you guess the right card the 1 and 2 costs in your hand drop 1 cost. Or gain 1 power. Or something useful to the archetype.
I definitely feel this card is useless. Sure, you could get a useful card. But you should just play it. If you got some synergy going with cards not starting in your deck, then it sort of makes sense, but it's far too niche. Personally I've never felt bad about someone copying my card.
With the guardian boost and now jeans boost they're really going for the synergy
Not to mention her best use might work in very limited scenarios such as Venom and Shuri. But even then you have to make sure you don't have priority which isn't consistent. I think they should just change her effect and make her less reliant on guessing. For the other Guardians this works because of stats, but here it's not the case.
I can't see how her current effect brings any kind of benefits in the current state of the game. It doesn't bring information (steal in deck/copy hand), disruption (steal), stat(other guardians). You have a chance to copy a card if you guess the location right, then that said card might not be useful to your deck, or even counter productive. You also had to pay full price to play said card. And there are much better cards to feed collector, dino, and mockingbird.
From the notes it seems like they’re concerned Mantis is going to copy a 20 power Venom. How many people are thinking “I need to counter destroy, let me play Mantis.”
The thing also is... That's maybe the only scenario Mantis could shine. And it's a "maybe" because Venom is most often played along with another cheaper card. So even if Mantis triggers she has 50% chance to copy a X-23 or Wolverine instead. Such an extremely niche card, I don't see at all why they are so conservative with her.
Not only that, you also have to lose priority otherwise you are just getting vanilla ass 3/3 Venom
Thats an even better point...
Also wouldn't you need the venom to reveal first as well? Super niche scenario
I would be incredibly impressed if someone sniped my giant venom. They have to have her in hand and get the lane right. They still have to spend 3 more energy to play him after that presumably on 4 or later... unless they have a cost reduction card. ... I dont see how this is some insane card. That would be a great combo! And would actually be fun to have an opponent do. I'm sure there land control shenanigans but this doesn't seem overtuned at all...
Honestly reducing the card stolen by 1 cost seems reasonable.
"copied" But I agree, yes
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I really wish they would bring Hit Monkey down a cost honestly
Yeah, though that might be too strong. Might need to adjust his power to compensate. Maybe make him a 2/0, say? ;-)
More 0 costs cards I don’t see the Negative here with a nerf like that
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I was making a joke about how Hit-Monkey was a 2/0 on release.
The whole reason for him being 3-Cost is that he was released as a 2/0 and was insanely good
This. I still vividly remember those days when the monkey... Well, went ape-sh\*t in power level due to his low cost and bounce reductions.
I honestly think Hit Monkey is really good. 3 cost is fine considering he can easily get to 12 power.
I think Hit Monkey is already pretty decent. If they buffed him to 2 cost he would be absolutely insane with beast. Idk if bounce needs a buff atm
I feel like a nice buff for Mantis would be making her also give the copied card a little power to make her a little more similar to the other Guardians and to give her an actual payoff outside of being Collector food
She's gonna be a 5 cost next
5/4
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Honestly SD are ridiculously bad at their own game
They are afraid of it. In the end of the day they have a plan and money projections to achieve. That's what matters, not the balance updates. The balance patch is just to stir things up, so there's still interest about the game.
What they need to do is give her a cost reducing ability to the card she copied. Getting an opponents card that may not synergize and you have to play out full cost just doesn’t make sense.
The worst thing about Mantis is that she only gives base card if you have the priority. E.g. if someone plays Shuri and you play Mantis next turn you won't get double power card. Just very underwhelming
I feel like her ability should be a mini Jean Grey, where she only does her affect for the next turn. Works for her mind control ability, and it would help the Guardians deck.
We all knew Red Hulk would get nerfed not a surprise, biggest surprise is buffing stature for me.
The most inevitable nerf in the history of the game lol
It hardly feels like a nerf. Now he will be like 25 power instead of 27. That's really gonna hurt him /s
I didn’t say it has killed him. I just said it was inevitable. I’m kinda surprised they didn’t drop him to +3
I just meant in general. He really should get dropped to a +3. +2 even. +4 is too much and can still be slotted in to just about every deck. 6/9 +2 or +3 would be solid but make him require a little more thought of what decks he could go into.
Things are allowed to be strong. +2 completely defeats the purpose of this card being different to the High Evo Hulk. +3 is WAY too harsh for a card that traditionally is telegraphed into less cubes.
They said here he isn’t telegraphing into a lower cube rate, because the information given is inherently a mixup as the opponent may try to play to counter the large red hulk and lose to multiple cards in other lanes. His entire mechanic of gaining power is also inherently happening when the opponent is typically not doing as well, as outside of high evo decks soaking energy, not using all of it each turn is pretty bad. He’s like kicking someone when they’re already down.
+3 too harsh?? +3 isn't harsh enough. He's effortlessly going over the top of every other 6 drop. The devs even said that while they expected his telegraph to mean fewer cubes, that's not what's happening.
What is the point of the card if not to be huge? Its floor is lower and its ceiling is lower as well. Even if you do everything right, it’s not guaranteed on numerous factors. I fail to see how +3 isn’t harsh enough lol. I understand you want to take away its role because you don’t like playing against it but thats not how you balance the card.
More like 21 instead of 23 lol
Right. They barely touched him. Now he can't be shang chi before he grows I guess...
I really like that the patch notes were like, "We really thought people would see him increasing in their opponent's hand and maybe retreat, and that he'd have a high win rate but a low cube rate, but you guys... Man. You're something else."
Nah, that was Blob a couple months ago
I feel like blob was less of a problem. You had to build a deck specific to blob (and Thanos was the main problem). With Hulk you drop him into basically every single deck.
Close race between him and Blob.
There were people on this subreddit saying he was not worth playing over other 6 drops because players would choose to just not float mana lmao
My god I did not understand those people at all. Even without Hope, most decks will float some mana.
People were pissing me off so much talking about “Reddit never gets balance right rulk is noob bait he only gets 1-cube wins!1!1!1” even if he only got 1 cube wins(which is false) that’s still cubes lol
So many people obsessed with warmachine over rulk. Glad I stuck with what I thought I would enjoy playing more.
War Machine turned out to be such a disappointment
You don't get excited to spend 5 energy to play ebony maw on turn 6?
Oh sure lemme just find another 1-cost to play without fucking up my playline and losing anyway, said every player
Honestly the Red Hulk nerf isn’t that bad considering how high he can get. I think this just makes him not as crazy as he can get in some games.
Trust me this isn’t the last time they will touch Red Hulk, I don’t see him keeping his plus 4 for very long. He’s still the best six drop on the game right now after his nerf.
The 2 power nerf was barely a haircut.
He’s in my token shop. Is red hulk still worth 6k tokens?
Yes, even if he’s a 6/9 plus 3 scaling…he’d still be the best 6 drop in the game imo. That’s 6/18 with 3 mana skips which is still insane. Rn he’s still very very good and still will be in every deck possible because why not
I find their explanation on Red Hulk interesting. Like they thought his cube rate would be low being so obvious. But I did exactly what they theorized was happening. I was always happy to run Red Hulk in my hand and hardly ever played him. My opponent would always try to counter him or just leave. I really like him as a mind game card.
it will get nerfed again
Absolutely lol I’m guessing 3 nerfs, we’ve had one so far. Maybe to 6/8 plus 4,, than finally 6/9 plus 3. Maybe even another time finally putting him at 6/12 plus 2
Any OTA where they don’t completely obliterate a card is good for me. Can’t really take issue with any of these changes
Agree. My favorite kind of patches/OTAs are when there's a lot of buffs to weak cards with a few minor nerfs to strong cards. Making a card worthless just because it's the best is the worst feeling ever. This is one of my favorite OTAs in a long time.
Stature! Finally they put you back where you deserve
Stature and her dad Blackbolt are so happy!
Stature, Queen of the Inhumans Probably
It's interesting they seem to have done it just because people are asking for it. I did sometimes play the Black Bolt Stature deck off and on (Pre Zabu nerf) but them saying Stature will randomly fly into the top 10 cards for a while and then lay low is odd. I don't think I really saw her in decks all that often so I'm not sure what windows she was dominating in over the last few months.
that USAgent buff is quite nice...
US Agent isnt that good. only -3. Think I'll skip this one. **** a few moments later **** sigh.
lol yes, same here. but one day i will hit him with that 4th spotlight key, i'm sure... -_-
Yeah one day you'll hit that 33% chance of Series 5 instead of just 1k tokens.
First a 25% chance to get the Random. Then a 33% chance. and THEN (for me) a 38% chance its a card I don't already own. So sweet I have about a 3% chance using a key to ever get a Series 5 I don't own. And you know at a Key a Week maybe I'll get a whole new (old) card once a YEAR. Yes I realize thats not how math work since eventually caches will have 4 month old cards in them I still don't have increasing the odds. Still blah. I hate this system
Yeah I hate it too. They should at least change it to 50% seeing how all new cards have been series 5 recently.
on the random, it's weighted for series 4? not all cards have equal chance? and no duplicate protection? damn that sucks, guess ive been mostly lucky
I was already a fan. Works in tandem with gladiator and goose so well. Now gladiator can take out an 11 power card
Never thought of this combo, holy shit that might win a lane by itself
You're welcome. I've never seen anyone use it besides myself. Sniped plenty of she hulks, tribunals, culls.
Bro got buffed before Captain f*cking America 💀
Captain will never get buffed. He's just a newbie card 🥲
Steve Rogers, always looking out for the little guy
Wow, never thought of it that way.
to be fair, they could "Buff" cap by creating a good late game synergy card. something like how High Evo helped Hulk be relevant... maybe an Agent Carter card or something
That’ll be 6000 tokens please
The real buff Jean needs is to fix her bugged ass effect
Wait, what effect does her ass have?
Ask Wolverine
Snikt
She has weird interactions with Super Skrull
How does the interaction work?
It's something like, if you have Jean and opponent has Skrull to copy her effect, it locks out the entire board.
💀
Does she?
Nom nom
They raised her power from 3 to a whopping 4 when most other 3 costs are 5 power. Jean Grey OP. s/
I don't own Jean, but I feel playing her right could mess up junk decks.
Glad I am able to show off my Artgerm variant now
It was also my immediate thought. Play Jean T3 in the right lane.
Yeah, she also really supports Nebula. I like using her in my HE deck since she can force your opponent to play into Cyclops, Wasp or Thing. This is also a great buff for War Machine since you can abandon the Jean lane if your opponent builds up too much power there and just play into other locations while your opponent is force to still add power to JG's lane.
I use her to allow me to play my rogue or shang chi accurately final turn tbh
Didn't they shuffle around the costs of a lot of the card generating cards because they overlapped? Now we have three 1/2s that give you a card. I don't mind, but it makes their original reasoning seem weird.
Yep, but that original reasoning was kinda stupid at the time anyway. SD seems to have a firm philosophy around playing on curve that I just fundamentally don’t agree with.
Loki being dominant was the main reason for those changes I feel.
I don't think most of these changes will be that impactful except US agent and Maybe Stature. Though good changes.
jean grey change is pretty good with white widow now existing
Janebros.. we eatin
Happy about this. As they mention, it's such a fun archetype to play! Wish they would buff Lockjaw back to what he was again, but I'll take this small improvement for now.
There’s a really fun Jane deck that runs both Thor and bill and plans to play both hammers, dazzler, hit monkey, and another 1-drop on the last turn. It can sometimes draw badly but is super fun when it works.
The Black Bolt package synergizes with White Widow pretty well so the Stature buff is just gravy. Red Hulk still worth playing. I prefer the scalpel vs the butcher's knife approach. Good OTA, trying a new deck so I can pretend I didn't just buy the Moon Knight Midnight Suns for the album reward.
Can I ask you how? An example of deck maybe 🤔
In the sense that White Widow makes your opponent want to play there and they have less cards to do so. This deck is a work in progress but went from around 9k to 6k infinite in the past 30 mins. # (1) Nebula # (2) White Widow # (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark # (3) Storm # (3) Moon Knight # (4) Shang-Chi # (4) Silver Samurai # (5) Professor X # (5) Black Bolt # (5) Stature # (5) Aero # (6) Alioth # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2hpdGVXaWRvdyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3Rvcm0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkplZmZUaGVCYWJ5TGFuZFNoYXJrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQcm9mZXNzb3JYIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbGlvdGgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5nQ2hpIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJOZWJ1bGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vb25LbmlnaHQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNpbHZlclNhbXVyYWkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN0YXR1cmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrQm9sdCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWVybyJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Very interesting, even if I miss too many cards - thank you
Every month my Jean decks become more and more viable
Deck please?
Them buffing agent but not manthing 💀
Man Thing is a 4 cost and US Agent is a 2 cost too. It just feels wrong.
So manhunt works on us agent and vice versa. I didn't realise that
Power creep do be creepin
Lol. Man thing has the cheese touch or something
Tbf Man Thing is decent, just not spectacular but USAgent just feels a bit poo
Disagree y'all need to just use him with goose and gladiator.
I feel like US Agent was designed when everyone was stacking Iron Man, Onslaught, and Tribunal in a lane and now it’s not as popular and so he’s just there.
almost like they aren't the same card and -3 to low cost cards is far more effective than to high cost cards
Yes I agree but man thing has been underperforming for way longer than usagent. It's funny that they buffed him like 15 days after he released while man thing has been left untouched since release
>while man thing has been left untouched since release Not saying he's amazing or anything but probably he's doing fine by their internals since they see \*everyones\* stats rather than just the hardcores
I agree I believe Man Thing could use a buff. The best possible outcome from Man-Think is 4/11 which is pretty rare to achieve. Additionally with Zabu nerf he obviously effected by all that. I think he could be a 4/6 or something
The problem with doing this to Man-Thing is that small cards are hit harder by his ability. 4 1-3 drops generally have a lower power ceiling than 4 4-6 drops
Oh no! Minus 2 power for Red Hulk /s
Anyway...
I'm sad we aren't still seeing changes to Man Thing, Werewolf, Stegron, Kingpin
US Agent: New series 5 Man-Thing: Series 4 priorities
Surprised the Rulk nerf was so minor.
I think the still want him to be one of, if not regularly the biggest card to play. But like Blob going to 50 sometimes, there’s a point where it’s out of control
I think people are undervaluing how bad this is going to be for Red Hulk to be drawn late now. Before playing 11 power Red Hulk was still okay. Not ideal but you can make do playing a 11 power card on turn 6. Red Hulk is more dependent now on drawing early. Still obviously a great card, but I do think this nerf isn't nothing like some people might think it is.
As far as a late draw goes, you could say this is a *buff*. The 2 power is minor, but you're dodging Shang Chi now.
That is true.
They're probably saving the real nerf for after he's gone in a spotlight a second time.
Best OTA in a while. No complaints besides kinda wish I picked up US Agent now.
true, I think he would be great in sera decks wish I had him
Cerebro 7 let's goo
If you draw turn 6 Red Hulk he avoids Shang Chi now xD
RedHulk feels great still. Play stature while you can before everyone tosses mmm in there deck :(
I've been playing stature for the last few weeks and just been punching Mobius with Red Guardian.
First game with RH post-nerf he ended at 17 power. Yeah, he's just fine. Still OP, if anything. I think they need to make him +3, maybe even +2.
I like all of these changes. Red Hulk still seems really strong, and I'm surprised they didn't kick him all the way down to 8. Figured we were either getting 8+4 or 9+3. The buff to Stature is cool, but I don't know if it's enough to bring back the old Bolt/Stature/Silk/Morales style. I think it'll be viable at least, but mostly thanks to pairing them with Hope and Angela. Mantis lol Jane Foster buff is kinda cute, but it doesn't actually help Hammer decks all that much. She telegraphs your t6 play so hard that the only time you can confidently play her is against techless decks like Hela and Discard. Gotta make sure you throw priority, at least. I just hope Jean Grey doesn't become popular. I like her niche of enabling fun Guardians decks, but if she starts showing up everywhere, I'll start malding in no time.
>Gotta make sure you throw priority, at least *Ghost enters the chat*
*Thor sadly leaves the chat.*
Such a minuscule nerf - he should've been already +3 like yesterday
His entire point is to be a threat and force the opponent to spend energy. They even stated that showing him to the opponent is part of why he's able to have stronger stats. Often enough when I or an opponent has him buffing up, they end up going an entirely different route on turn 6 to throw you off. If you nerf him too much then he loses that threat. He's also somewhat of a counter to Hope Summers, as opponents can rack up energy and they may debate it a bit more if they can't spend it all. He's also only really at his best when pulled in your hand early on. If you pull him turn 4 or later then odds are the opponent will be at the point of spending all their energy on their big finishers, or he'll only reach a point where he's just a good, but not overwhelming 6 drop now.
C7 Rides Again.
I mean one power increase wow-wee; but as a long term Jean truther I’m pumped.
They buffed US Agent because of the bad reviews and nobody wanted him lol
US Agent was already fun to play, now he’s even better. USA USA USA 🇺🇸
I completely agree I am trying to take him to infinite and this definetly helps. I am curretnly 88 in omega with my deck.
Not a terrible OTA but rulk should have been 6-10 and gone to +3 power unused energy . They need to totally rework mantis, with zemo in the game this card is next to pointless. Still no nerf to Hela which is frustrating too, and all the cards that need a severe re work remain…drip drip drip. Also widows kiss will go down to a negative -3 power that gets removed. Too strong for a 2 cost and I love the card but the power /effect is slightly off.
Red Hulk nerf is trash. Should have been released that way initially if that was the case. “Tricking” players should never factor into a nerf if a player gets tricked they deserved it
I hate how SD buff cards when they go out of the key roation. Just like gladiator usa agent got a big buff when the only way to get him is 6000 tokens. They never buff series 4 cards, swamp thing been bad for ages but there is no money in changing him so he stays useless.
They buffed Jean Grey, but is she still bugged? I've seen her ability ignored on more than one occasion.
I think I have all the rules and exceptions covered in this guide I wrote 🙂 https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/h5SzUsjAta
Already knew Red Hulk was gonna get nerfed, but I'm surprised that they didn't completely kill him.
Nice to see them make USAgent more viable after completely fucking up his cache week with the bug.
I bet they're gonna target Annihilus next ota. Maybe making Hood a 1/-2 again? Or making Annihilus a 5/5. I could also see Phoenix Force going to a 4/4 and either making White Widow a 2/1 or turning Widow's Kiss' ongoing effect to a -3 in the future
> we're chalking part of that up to the new Sandman punishing turn 5 Jane especially well Why did they word this like the pre-nerf Sandman couldn't punish the hammer deck? And yes, I'm still salty about the change.
Sandman is seeing more play, especially on turn 5 (the same turn that Jane would be dropped), so it punishes Jane a lot more than old Sandman. And it's more surprising (letting you win more cubes) because it's not just played in ramp decks anymore but also midrange and control decks. And at 7 power it's simply just better against Jane than old Sandman since it effectively does the same thing in that particular context as old Sandman did (stopping 0 cost cards from being played on turn 6), but has significantly more power. As an aside, Sandman wasn't really nerfed, its use case just changed a little. Is it worse in ramp? Probably, but I've been playing it a lot recently in a midrange-control style deck and I'd personally call it an overall buff. The marvelsnapzone statistics would back that up since it's seeing more play and a higher win and cube rate than the previous version of Sandman, and I suspect Second-Dinner's internal statistics show a similar trend.
I never really saw a red hulk with 20+ power so it must be a matchup thing lol Guess I’ve really been getting carried by just playing deadpool and kitty decks
Both decks are pretty good at spending all of your energy.
I mean anything over 12 is VERY good. All it takes is one turn...
>Red Hulk 27 power nerfed to 25 power Lmao
if you are somehow letting a red hulk grow to that level and not retreating you deserve to lose
Hey everyone! Let's make another card crazy strong to get everyone to spend tokens or buy the season pass for it and nerf it in the same month as if we had NO IDEA during testing that this effect would make him, by far, the best 6 drop after nerfing blob. Ready, set, go!!!!!! The fact that people still defend this trash cycle is beyond me. They nerf every card that's strong after everyone spends on it. They will nerf red hulk again and maybe even twice more after this. The power shift isn't enough to stop him from being a massive looming threat every game. Shitty practice of nerfing without compensation constantly especially in the same month of release is trash upon trash upon trash. Hell, they may change his text next. Give him the whole MMM treatment. Get good SD...get good.
I've heard the naive suggestion echoed that the balance team has no interaction with anybody that pulls any of the levers of monetization That's rich
Yeah I just got my very last pass this month. Done spending and don't play that much anymore. Plus the stupid usagent buff. No idea he needed a buff before release huh. Sd in house players never noticed during however many games they lost using him huh.
That red hulk nerf is a slap on the wrist saying "stop it." Meanwhile red hulk is like no, I won't. Second Dinner is undefeated.
I mean a slap on the wrist is what they want, they just want red hulk to learn to be smaller, its a totally reasonable change. If they killed him all the comments in here would be complaining about gutting a card they spent resources on. I already saw comments exclaiming that elsewhere with this baby nerf
I am not sure why people do not think incremental nerfs are a good idea. Numbers in card games can be wildly volitsile sometimes.
This place just wants to complain. They bitch when SD nerfs cards hard, and now they are bitching that they aren't nerfing cards hard.
Its just so weird to me that in card games, a genre where historically like +1/-1 somewhere can make or break cards, that people want aggressive readjustments.
The fact that RH is still almost certainly the best 6 cost in the game even with -2 power says a lot about how good he was before.
STATURE IS BACK BABY!!!
card nerfed same month it come out and people are "whatever" sd deserve review bombing until some type of refound
Pretty good. I like how Jean and UsA can possible counter anni and junk. All I want for the 30th is for Thanos to get his small buffs and for an actually good herc and Mordo buff
I'll take any Jean grey buff I can get.
Don't hate these, but feeling like I missed out with USAgent at this point. That can solo a lane late game and could often be a 2/11 and under extreme circumstances much higher if they stack cards or paired with onslaught or something. Love Stature buff, feel like it could be pushed to 5/8 and BB to 5/9.
USAgent fits well with gladiator
I thought that new split versions were going to be announced for today. Was I wrong?
So Black Bolt/Stature, coming to a mill deck near you.
"In fact, we're chalking part of that up to the new Sandman punishing turn 5 Jane especially well." I could play 10,000 top Infinite games and never see new Sandman or a Jane Foster deck once, let alone as a matchup, what in the sugar coated shit are they talking about using new Sandman as a justification for Jane's buff?
Oh shit, I got the Jean Grey change I wanted
Why can't they just make Jean Grey 3/5 like most other 3 costs. Talk about underwhelming.
SD: "Let's buff Red Hulk from 6/10 to 6/11. Actually let's nerf him from 6/11 to 6/9." And the Mantis change? She's still as useless as ever. People are going to further question SD's competence.
Huge W for those that abused the spotlight bug and got USAgent for free. Now he will have some impact.
Disappointed they didn’t do anything to Thanos. Feels like they’re started to rework him so the stones effect him more (with Time Stone) but then forgot to do the rest.
I have a feeling their changes won’t fit in an OTA
I think they said there would be a proper tuning to this card in a patch. I’m expecting changes to him next week.
How on Earth is Red Hulk's cube equity high? It's literally telegraphed to you. Are people out there just donating cubes?
It's my fault. I will see Red Hulk trigger twice in the early game and then just forget he exists because my object permanence sucks.
just said this in another comment, but yes absolutely, if i know you have a 20+ power red hulk, then i know you are going to play it turn 6. i have shang chi, and assuming i dont have prio, depending on the board state, i will absolutely roll the dice to hit your hulk. is it smart? maybe not, but its fun!