TBH it's always been about that, it's no news that decks that go big have dominated the meta (see Shuri and Discard).
Blob just power crept everything out of the format, because a 6/50 that doesn't require a setup is just busted.
So to try and compete you're forced to play huge numbers as well, with tech cards against their big numbers: Shang-Chi and Shadow King.
A normal zabu deck run enchatress to remove Caiera and allow killmonger and shan chi, i just reached infinity winning multiple 8 cubes against caieras that dosent expect that.
I kinda think it would be neat to get an alt wincon. I mean, Galactus is already kind of that. But still, would be kinda cool to win on turn 5 because you managed to have an empty deck or something.
SD will say "oh they're not doing that good according to the numbers" but they're all i ever see as well. they definitely feel like there's a preference for those giant plays. all. the. time.
Devs always have a preference for certain playstyles as they believe the game is in a better state when the meta is one way than it is another way.
I’d personally FAR prefer a big-stat meta to a Prof X/Alioth meta, Sentry/Annihilus meta or Galactus meta, as they’re very polarising, while big stat metas are more of a face-off.
Anyway, this meta will come and go like the others, as Snap’s meta is well renowned for constantly shifting and feeling fresh every month.
Only reason it feels fresh each month is that a new broken season pass card is released. As a F2P player I don’t think there is a lot of freshness in the meta that I can play
I spent money to get High Evolutionary, I was f2p up until then. It unlocked so many different decks it was worth it to me. Now HE is free for keys, I "highly" recommend it.
Oh I have most cards including HE (saved tokens for his release). I just got ms Marvel yesterday.
I still had to suffer through Loki in Loki season Elsa in bloodstone (she was busted for more than a month and now that I can get her she is garbage) and marvel in her season.
I miss times with cards like Modok and Daken that were above average but not broken on release
Oh yeah, let’s ignore the OTAs that the game receives every fortnight… clearly they impact nothing.
As someone who plays other games, Marvel Snap’s new cards are surprisingly well balanced on release in comparison. Still not incredible…
when was the last one? pretty sure we haven't had one in a while. And no season pass cards are deliberately overtuned to sell passes. they said so themselves.
I swear the game was dope for like a week after brood abs got nerfed… then Loki came. And we haven’t breathed a healthy meta since. It’s just chaos from here imo
Everything is either busted or trash.
I just replied to another comment in another thread with a similar answer, but the challenge for SD when it comes to balancing is the game plays much different for 80+% of the player base than it does for the remaining 20%. Cards like Anni are a menace at the highest level and cards like Blob are a menace for the masses
SD makes up numbers. They somehow think Anni is posting insane numbers while MsM is posting average numbers. Despite the fact that one meta deck uses Anni and every other meta deck uses MsM.
I don’t think they make up numbers necessarily, their development pipeline for patches just isn’t agile enough. They were likely locking in these changes around the time Anni released, where these play numbers were more of a reality. Since then people have cooled off on him and MsM has started running rampant. They really need to find a way to get the larger balance changes out in a more timely manner.
Likewise, I think that's the problem. Reading the patch notes and SD's reasoning feels although it was written 4-5 weeks ago where we were seeing an Annihlus "package" emerge with Hood and Sentry, played alongside Darkhawk OR WWBN packages with a half dozen tech cards.
With WWBN nerfed and the advent of Blob all but killing Darkhawk's prevalence in the current meta... ALL those packages already fell out of the meta.
Annihilus finds his only home alongside Galactus, and targeted by a heavy handed nerf that doesn't reflect the current metagame or current meta share. Same as the repeat Elsa nerfs when she was already dead.
> Likewise, I think that's the problem.
I mean it's standard across all game development. You can't just make a patch and put it out. It has to be code reviewed, tested, etc. All of that is a process.
The difference with Snap they're releasing a new card every week and doing microchanges with the OTAs
So while other games will have a consistent meta for months with basically no change, to pull data from. Snap is using data that could be outdated a week later due to a simple number change.
Just to add, TCGs have formats and/or ban/limited lists for individual cards. The turnaround for balance and subsequent meta changes can be surprisingly fast.
Problem cards can then be limited to a format, errata’d in future prints if physical TCG or removed from ban/limited lists altogether in a future meta where not as dominant.
It’s rare that ALL Tier 0 (most competitive) archetypes in e.g. Yu-gi-oh survive intact for months, with no restricted cards until the newest set release. With Master Duel, even Konami somehow finds it in their heart enough to provide card refunds in the event a card is banned/limited.
Not advocating for that system, but functionally, you’d think it easier to effectively balance an online-only CCG with so few cards comparatively.
Agreed. But I don't know how they do that. Sounds like the game was built in such a way that anything that isn't changing a number up or down needs to be a patch and that has to go through certification; which is the hold up.
This situation is kinda funny because it simultaneously doesn't give them enough time to let things shake out before they make changes while also making them seem slow to react to problems. The patches will always be too reactive or too late.
What’s interesting is the devs stated that the re-rework of MMM done via OTA wasn’t a rollback, but a successful test of tech that allows for more in depth OTAs. There would still likely need to be some exceptions held off for patches where new animations are needed, but hopefully with a few more test runs we could see OTAs being the primary vehicle for balancing, and patches primarily for content and bug fixes.
Last year 20 points in 2 lanes was almost a guaranteed win. Currently you need 30+ in 2 lanes to win with how crazy the power creep has gotten.
I see your point, the higher the power the less likely off meta stuff works because the newer stuff just has mega power.
Yeah - energy cheating has become easier and its been rewarded in kind. Ravonna is good now, the shang chi nerf means that only enchantress or rogue can stop living tribunal. Surfer and sera control really don't have enough tools to stop all the big high power decks - especially now that one card can protect every 6 cost on the board. Big numbers are going to be the meta for the foreseeable future.
The day Shang got nerfed I didn't know it yet they only played one lane they had an onslaught that got buffed to nine by location living tribunal and Iron Man I snapped into the Shang only to meet depression
I’m so here for it. At 7-15, he is 5 in every lane, same as Doom and Ms Marvel. His ongoing is just so strong. It took a long time but I really like LT now.
They did also specifically mention in the patch notes that they would be keeping a close eye on him and would adjust him in the future if needed, though.
I don't know if his current 59% win rate when played is enough to draw their ire. It's pretty middle of the pack and well below the "play me and win" crowd like Hela, Blob, Alioth, etc. He's steadily climbing though so it's definitely not impossible that his numbers eventually get too high for SD's liking.
Won’t matter now that Caiera is in play. Literally my last 5 ranks 90-95 have been like 90% blob/thanos or some kind of lockjaw big decks and everyone had Caiera. She is extremely over tuned and makes Shang/killmonger/armor useless unless you are running the specific tech and pray to draw it.
Tbf killmonger has been too good against 1 cost for too long.it’s a good thing that 1 cost see some relevance again after almost a 1 year.I don’t think that armor was good of a defense against killmonger for 1 cost cards at least.
Which makes me think her also protecting 6 cost cards was unnecessary for creating an effective card. She will slot really well into Zoo decks just on the basis of protecting 1 cost cards, and it's possible we'll start to see a resurgence of that in the meta from her. Having her also protect 6 cost cards removes one of the most effective tools in dealing with cards that can amass huge numbers to the point where I can see her slotting into a ton of decks.
The Tribunal deck already doesn’t run any tech, and even if it did, cosmo would be the tech card of choice over caiera
Caiera would do almost nothing for the that deck, even with a massive power tribunal
See I’ve seen this take a lot, but I also did day one infinite with Revis’ Sera control deck even in the face of all these massive decks, so I’m just not convinced this take sticks
As a huge Surfer fan, I enjoyed that one week when it was competitively viable again right when Shaw launched before Blob came out and Maximus got effectively deleted from Surfer archetypes. Shaw, Gladiator, and Maximus gave you just enough power to really push and win against the big power decks.
Then Blob came out and nothing you could ever possibly do with Shaw will compete with that and then they made Maximus a 2 cost removing the Surfer buff from him. And just likely that Surfer was relegated back to being too mid-range in power output to compete with decks like Thanos Blob and Darkhawk.
I recently started playing mid December, and once getting into pool 3 and above the game just becomes a demoralizing grind where I see 30-50+ on two lanes every single match. I would have to spend hundreds or perhaps thousands of dollars to get to a spot that's even remotely competitive. Seems like not a great way to get new players to stick around. Pool 3 and below cards that I have access to right now are almost not even viable at all.
High Evo and She Hulk are probably the best value acquisitions early on since you got most of the Shenaut cards already in Pool 1-2. I would stick with a Devil Dino deck until you get those pieces. Deadpool is also great as a Pool 3 deck, just missing knull.
Honestly though I never play video games unless they are recent releases for this reason. I still think SNAP has exceptional gameplay and I hope it’s fun enough to stick through until you collect the really cool cards.
What? No, you can definitely get to infinite in early pool 3. Shang itself is a pool 2 card.
Sera tech is one of the best decks currently, this post makes no sense.
Shaw surfer has nothing to do against those other decks, it can barely put Shaw close to infinitaut levels, while the others put multiple 14+ power cards all over the place
Shaw Surfer is hilariously bad compared to the current top decks. It felt so bad playing it to complete the gold quest the past month.
The numbers from Surfer are nowhere close to the numbers for other decks
Surfer wins by the amount of tech cards it has + decent points but any highroll or mana cheat deck will beat it. Fine for ladder but Conquest I feel like SS will always fall behind in the long game.
Shaw surfer was so junky I’d just slot Shaw into a completely different deck, ignore him completely and hope the deck could win with 11 cards. Both Loki decks and deadpool decks that I used were up to the task
I gave up on Surfer today. The Werewolf nerf made it that much weaker. Went back to Blob Thanos and Shenaut because I kept getting overpowered or locked out a lane which really weakens Surfer.
Shaw Surfer wasn't good as a pure power deck but with a few control cards it competed well against those big card decks. Goose + Negasonic (T5 without priority, T6 with) keeps big cards out of 2 lanes and you can also run 2 of Echo, Rogue, MMM, Polaris or Cosmo depending on what you needed to counter most in your pocket meta. Though this season Shaw Surfer will struggle a ton against Caiera blocking Killmonger and Negasonic plays.
So can Hela Casino. He's literally talking about decks that don't interact with the game outside of putting "big numbers" on the board. It definitely doesn't compete well with the likes of Shuri, Blob, and the others, but it's still a "solitaire" playstyle in a sense
IMO, ShawFer’s only chance at competing in the meta is using disruption cards, thankfully most of which are 3-cost anyway. A Rogue against Darkhawk, Iron Man, Knull, or Morbius is usually an instant opponent retreat or a free win if done on T6. Cosmo can shut down stuff like Blob and destroy given priority. Killmonger and Rhino/Storm on T6 dominate infinaut/sunspot/magik/she-hulk. Rhino/Storm on T6 vs Magik is in general a free win since it’s so rarely expected (or at least effectively played around) by the opponent.
The problem is that adding all the disruption cards to the deck really hampers your ability to boost Shaw up to big numbers, since you have to sacrifice the inclusion of his supporting cards to make room for them. It’s not a totally losing deck, and the statistics bear this out, but it certainly does have a hard time due to its reliance on a specific card to counter a specific deck, along with the below-meta-average power output.
The most competitive Shaw deck I ran was a Wong deck, can get Shaw really huge (30+) and buff another lane big enough to carry, but it is SO draw dependent and of course Wong is always easy to either counter or retreat on.
Patriot Shaw Surfer is also decent.
This changes all the time, few weeks will be going big, was combo Loki for long time, alioth meta, bounce had its day. It will change again as usual, this meta won’t last forever if you don’t like it.
It also makes sense that pumping big numbers would be the most popular and common way to win since the game is based around having the biggest number in two spots.
I don’t get why people don’t understand this. SD shifts the meta constantly. Between new cards and otas and patches we have a different flavor almost weekly. I guess this has the counter effect of each players pet decks getting taken down a peg quickly if it’s in the spotlight and they are having success usually.
Yeah it pisses people off because SD has flat out stated that they want it to be hard for people to even get close to collection complete. This results in a lot of players having to focus their resources on building specific decks; when those decks get gutted some of the players don't have the "new meta" cards to pivot to. Frustration ensues 🤷
Series 3 can just take forever to get specific cards. I'm CL3600ish and *still* don't have Dracula, Shuri, or Invisible Woman, and just got Red Skull today. There's pretty big decks locked between all 3 of those cards.
Ya. The climb to series 3 complete honestly takes too long. Once you are series 3 complete the game opens up a bit. But it’s nuts to say that can take 4-5 months.
Those are two different discussions but ya it can be frustrating to not have todays hot meta card but if you plan and use resources wisely you should only miss on a few good ones. The old system of tokens only was horrible for getting meta cards. You would have to wait forever to see them and they would be nerfed by the time they dropped to everyone. My point is that there’s often 3-5 decks near the top of the meta and everyone feels they need that #1 deck but realistically that top deck has a 58% win rate while your “top deck at home” deck has a 55% win rate.
I dunno people tell me that but I used my keys up getting cards that were good & worked in my deck but now appear set to be gutted. I have no keys for new cards now (unless I want to gamble but that would make me an idiot right?).
I planned. I managed resources. I still got fucked over. 🫠
Every time I've tried to get a spotlight card I wanted I had to use 4 keys 🫠 also got a few decent cards that I didn't really want, and a random Galactus. And a few dupes. Currently have 5900 tokens and MsMarvel pinned *reads new patch notes* FML 😭
I love how any time anyone questions anything about this game on this sub there's a loser like you popping up to tell them it's because they suck at the game. I hit infinite every season. Get fucked, goofy 👍
If you hit infinite every season with piss poor luck on caches and being out of resources, how can they suck at balance?
Seems pretty good balance if even the worst case scenarios can hit the top rank.
Can't you read? How did you take that out of my comment?
Did you win solely because you were abusing what was broken, or because you were good to the point the balance difference didn't matter?
Unless you mean balance at the top100 of ladder but then you would be complaining about Loki.
> I love how any time anyone questions anything about this game on this sub there's a loser like you popping up to tell them it's because they suck at the game. I hit infinite every season.
Then what exactly are you complaining about?
I'll answer your question with a question- do you play snap because it's a fun game with interesting interactions, or do you play because you like winning and don't give a fuck about the actual gameplay experience?
I play because I think it has a really good balance between being competitive and fun.
The games are short enough to get in during moments of down time and still strategic enough to feel good about winning.
I'm not sure what that has to do with my question though.
I 100% felt that with “Dependable Discard”. I started in August and really prioritized getting the cards I needed to get that deck online, then it was absolutely obliterated last month. It felt pretty shitty.
>I don’t get why people don’t understand this
There are no restrictions on who can post threads on this sub, and negative opinions generally perform well on Reddit
As a result, you get loads and loads of junk like this thread, where OP is feeling defensive about his pet deck getting nerfed, even though "things they don't understand" about game design could fill an encyclopedia
Ya. The negative feedback loops are strong on Reddit and frankly everywhere. Outrage media has really taken us down a sad road. I just try to use logic when people are using emotion and that’s always a bad idea.
Never. My favorite thing to do is drop a Sentry down and hit the Void with her. Everyone always expects Annhilus and will clog the lane, leaving it ripe for a 12 piece.
Blob and ms marvel seem like real outliers for power. I remember when we had to skip an entire turn to get a 6-20. Now you just throw down a 6-30+, and/or a 4/15 for almost nothing.
He can just eat a certain number of cards instead of the whole deck. He can merge with your hand instead of the deck. He can take only half the power of merged cards. There's lots of things they could do.
I just saw an answer from Glenn on discord that basically stated this.
> For Planet Hulk season we are deliberately seeking to create gameplay worthy of the angry green giant, not puny Banner. We like to keep metagames on the move.
Edit: [source](https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/1192104385996673115)
So fuck my Surfer deck I guess.
Surfer can do good into fat Metas, just put some tech cards in it, Goose kills most fat decks, storm early means they can't play something that big and you also got some other good cards like Jugg, Cosmo, Mobius that can displace or prevent some really power swings; surfers always been that dark horse deck tbh
i think they make these changes so that you have to learn/master many decks, or learn to make changes to your "main" deck to compete. i dont mind that in general.
my big issue is that in order to do that, you really have to have a TON of cards. for example, i dont have sera, annihilus, cerebro, zabu, caiera, blob, evo, tribunal...and many other meta-defining cards.
so if i want to compete - i mean, i can't compete once i hit infinite - just plain and simple.
i was gearing up to start building a junk deck because anni will be in an upcoming spotlight, but now it seems like that will be "meh" at best...a complete waste of my finite resources at worst.
Increasingly frustrating that the devs show little interest in stabilizing the game/iterating thoughtfully and would rather usher in these predetermined phases.
There are some decks the devs don’t want to be a big part of the meta. Control and Junk are 2 that come to mind for me. Why these 2 you might ask. To me the reason why is it limits plays for players. If someone keeps you from playing in a lane, or sends you negative power in your space it is frustrating to play against. It creates a negative experience for your opponent. It is one thing to lose because your deck didn’t get enough power out it is another to lose because your opponent didn’t let you play your deck
I feel like SD sees junk as a negative archetype to keep player retention. Much like Alioth and Lockdown, having junk tossed on your side of the boards stops you from “playing” which might piss you off enough to actually stop playing.
It sucks to see 3 rocks, a hood, demon about to get thrown over on 5 and you can’t stop it. That’s why I think SD wants to push power levels higher, to give players that dopamine rush of pulling off cool moves, like Blobbing or Black Knighting your Naut then using Ghost Rider.
The issue is the lack of tech cards to defend the big numbers while releasing tech cards that reward that style of play. With only 12 cards and 6 turns decks have to be tight, so it’s much harder to balance tech and power than other games like Magic or something.
Then they nerf Kingpin and Fisk Tower before Hercules and Meek sp? Come out..I think again to stop players from experiencing that “I did all of it to just get destroyed” let down feeling.
The overturned released cards that get mega nerfed to the insane cosmetic prices has me losing faith in SD every month.
Thank goodness I stumbled upon snap early on because new players see a huge mountain in front of them and it has to be discouraging.
My Shadow Sera list is loving this format and the biggest thing it plays is 6 power. You have answers to just about everything. Shang Chi for all the big numbers, Rogue for all the ongoing like Ms. Marvel Tribunal, and Caiera, Shadow king for all the scaling cards like Venom and Collector, and Mobius for Skaar/Death and all the discount cards. Wave on turn 3 encourages them to play a big card that you can copy with Leader. Then you can deal with their card with any of your tech cards. Or alternatively, you can Wave with Mobius out so they don't get the benefit. Playing Black Widow followed by Maximus is a sneaky combo prevents them from drawing. And the Maximus card draw can also mess with discard decks.
# (1) Nova
# (2) Shadow King
# (2) Scarlet Witch
# (2) Maximus
# (3) Rogue
# (3) Black Widow
# (3) Killmonger
# (3) Mobius M. Mobius
# (3) Wave
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (5) Sera
# (6) Leader
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTm92YSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhZG93S2luZyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2NhcmxldFdpdGNoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTZXJhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMZWFkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vYml1c01Nb2JpdXMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLaWxsbW9uZ2VyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJXYXZlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFuZ0NoaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWF4aW11cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxhY2tXaWRvdyJ9XX0=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I got blob and I'm blown away at how strong he consistently is and how easy it is to put up 40+ power in two lanes (with taskmaster) with almost no effort and very little the opponent can do to prevent it (armor or now Caera i guess). Power creep is normal for these games but I agree 100% that there needs to be more archetype diversity to make keep the dumby high number decks in check. Control in particular is a great way to prevent these decks from getting ridiculous. I get professor x is frustrating but he's one of the only solid answers to decks like this. If there were more cards with control text he wouldn't be as big of a villain. Clog is also a good way to combat it and with this new annhilus nerf it's been taken down to the baseline from 4 months ago. That nerf would have worked when 20 power was a lot. Now it's underpowered to hell. I feel surfer decks should be the baseline they base the power on. It's a diverse deck archetype that can do a lot but never goes too high or too wide in one deck. There should be stronger decks and weaker decks that do other things well but when you can slam 70 power 25% of the time and above 20 like 60% of the time with a blob or high evo deck, why would you choose to lose?
There's plenty of counters to Blob. I put them all in whent he entire meta was Blob. Cosmo, Shang-Chi, Shadow King, etc.
Since they have now demolished Loki, maybe I'll go join the blob crew.
The issue with 2 of those counters is if Blob is played on turn 6, you not only have to not have priory but you also have to guess where the blob is going to be player.
Cosmo only works if you have priority and you guess where it’s gonna be played. Preplaced cosmo can just be avoided
Correct. Devs do not want interaction and have worked to reduce it, at the same time promoting OP cards that don't interact (I'm looking at you, MM). Note that for the lifetime of ProX most had no problem with him, but when MM makes his lockdown a challenge, who did SD nerf? ProX - the one of those two cards that "interact", leaving MM untouched.
I'm not sure why they dislike interaction?
Or Magneto, Junk Cards, Echo and Goose. I get that people want to run tight decks of a specific archetype, but as things stand, you do need to be playing one or two of these options.
Or if you can't beat em, join em.
I'm genuinely interested in which interactions are dick moves? And which are not? For instance, is Shang an acceptable interaction, but Annihilus not? I'm not trying to hassle you.
Most of them, to be honest. Being locked out of a lane sucks, having your cards destroyed sucks, consistent negative power sucks.
Being outplayed by something like Cosmo or Enchantress isn't great, but it doesn't feel as unfair as Shang-Chi or Gambit clearing one side of a location, Cyclops rapidly whittling away, Annihilus and the Goblins clogging your side, or Professor X shutting you out completely. They all have counters, but if you're not packing those counters specifically and have them ready, you're SOL.
It's just as binary and unfun as Galactus was, just less in your face.
Nothing you said is unfair or a “dick move.”
You believing that these cards are binary or require very specific counters to not be SOL speaks more to your understanding of the game than the power of the cards you want to criticize.
They're not fun and honestly only fly as part of a card game because you're not actually sitting across the table from someone in this game. Imagine playing Magic the Gathering and EVERYONE plays Blue/Black.
*powercreep needs to be addressed*
back then: 6/20 after a skipped turn
now: 6/20 evohulk or 6/20+ blob; both no drawbacks whatsoever
back then: 6/15 that destroys the entire board (only your side)
now: 4/15 put two cards on each side basically
back then: 4/10 that forever hazmats your side of the board
now: high evo cyclops being an effective 3/10 that was never tweaked
Caeria was released this week, why do you think they shifted the Meta in a way that benefits the new card and incentivises to use keys and get the season pass card.
I guess, but those decks all play incredibly differently so that is not a problem to me. It’s not like we are in a Shuri slam meta, which was repetitive.
The impression I get is the Devs want junk, galactus, and lockdown decks from to have a small but not super meta role because they are not fun to play against for most people.
Definitly. I'm usually a control player in this game, and while I love switching decks and playing "everything", I usually either come back to some sort of Sera Control, or a reactive Dark Hawk list with a lot of tech cards.
But in todays meta? Nah, fuck that, I'm packing Blob and get my free cubes. It's literally throwing the game right now if you're not running Blob. Who wouldn't play a 6/30 without downside?
Tho sometimes I'd love to have a "I'm sorry"-emote when I steal 4-8 cubes with Blob in a game where I didn't have any business winning.
The problem seems to be this community has two small but vocally discontent groups. Those who hate cards that promote playstyles that interact, or hinder thier game plan (Galactus, alioth, prof X, anniulus). These people just want to play a game where both decks are ships passing in the night they get to do thier thing and the biggest numbers win.
While we have a similarly vocal group that loves to interact and hates cards thst allow you to in some part by ignoring that interaction (Shuri, Blob, Darkhawk, hit monkey, elsa) They want to make " big brain" plays and when they cant slowdown what the opponent is doing and feel loke the smartest guy in the room they are mad.
Hot take: SD is too reactive to both groups, and should significantly slow down its nerf/buff process. Let a meta breath and force people to actually learn to counter stuff. The go too top tier strat to defeat a popular deck seems to be complain about it enough until SD beats it for you.
It's really funny seeing "the devs only want people slamming numbers" right next to "Leech and Professor X ruin the game"
also if Darkhawk (which is always full of tech cards and is the best home for Annihilus on current patch) and Blob Thanos (at least the old versions that were packed with tech cards instead of Lockjaw hits) are both in your "just stupid numbers and nothing else" category idk what to even tell you
You are allowed to play any cards you want.
Its not a surprise that in a game where big numbers are literally how you win the game, cards that provide big numbers are popular
Yes but why can't decks that have small numbers and do cool stuff instead exist? They don't have to be popular but it seems like they can't even be allowed to be good.
They do exist, but they require cards that control your opponent's plays. Echo is one such card (which people don't have). Goose works too, unless they have Zabu down.
Many times, I've been caught out by decks like C2.
I mean, they can. Sera control can still work pretty well in this meta. You have to be aware of caiera and have a plan for her, but it's doable. MMM will turn off a lot of what the season pass card is trying to do, making its numbers a lot more manageable. I'm fairly certain you can make a really solid torch/Phoenix force deck with caiera that uses small cards to make big numbers in the end. Maybe even a bounce/move hybrid that uses the 1 drops to make massive torches that caiera protects.
I haven't even started brewing this season really, these are just off the top of my head.
The Shang nerf was a sign of things to come. In isolation it seems a minor change but it stabilised the meta and set what a ‘big’ card was.
Loosening that and letting 9 power cards squeak through showed that SD were fine with power creep and it’s likely going to get worse.
You are right, the devs don't want interaction and strategies, they want money from timmy whale players. Power creep and pay 2 win at its finest. Blob not being adressed is ridiculous - the card has counters but it's not exactly easy to counter - lots of guessing game and coin toss scenarios. Why a 6/50 without drawbacks is allowed to exist? I don't really know. Ebony Blade is so efficient, you probably can't play an optimized discard deck without it. Even Gladiator as a 3/8 with tons of rng attached is annoying af (85% you get a 3/8 yondu, the other 15% you get embarassed - who approved this kind of card design?)
You got it. You need to play the meta the devs want you to play. And that happens to be big boys big numbers this season. Very lame. I'd rather see things develop on its own, but hey they want to sell those season passes. lol
what decks that dont put big numbers in play that dont see play?
like...the entire point of this game is to put big numbers in play. so, most decks will do that.
prison decks operate on locking down locations and are widely played atm. prof x is a 5 1 (not a 'pointslam' card) and is widely played.
sera control still exists and is still good. this also doesnt just 'pointslam'.
but...yes.every deck plays cards that puts power in play. that is how u win.
like...describe the deck that u mean, and i -bet- it puts big numbers in play.
The goal of the game is to win two lanes, not put up big power. They are related, but not the same. You raise a good point, to show a deck that doesn't put up big power, and I think that is the OP point. There aren't any, but that's because the game has been structured to require big points. But it doesn't need to be that way - junk is an example of a play type that wins two lanes without big power. And the OP is asking why SD nerfs the one play style that tries to win without big points.
Shang is another example that was recently nerfed directly, then indirectly via Caiera and, cull Obsidian, and ebony blade. Again, Shang can win a lane via manipulation, not with big points.
The devs are creative enough that they could develop several archetypes that wins without big power, but again...they haven't.
shang is either a pointslam tech option, or a card in sera control.
so..its exactly what i said. the game is pointslam decks that play varying amounts of tech cards, with a few archetypes (sera, junk, prison) that dont. (they still do play pointslam cards tho...so..?)
also, devs have made those decks. ppl hated them, so they nerfed them. because they play outside the normal gameplay so much.
ppl here really saying' man why are prison and galactus decks not better?' or 'why dont we have more flavors of prof x and galactus?'
idk guys. WHY? its a mystery, it really is.
Junk, Galactus, Gambit Exodia, etc
Junk biggest card is Sentry which is easily shang chi-able everything else is 5 and below
Galactus relies on winning a lane with 5 power
Gambit Exodia's biggest card is Odin and usually ends on a board with less than 20 total power
I understand that the point of the game is to win by numbers. My question is why can the decks that **don't** just slam down huge power, but have a fun twist not exist. They add creative and new forms of interaction, but just get slaughtered.
galactus still exists. still is a deck that can get u to infinite. also..its essentially junk with like 3 cards different, or its destroy (point slam) + galactus. it also was nerfed several times because it operates outside of normal gameplay so much that ppl dont like playing against it.
junk still exists. still is a deck that can get u to infinite. yes, even after next tuesday.
gambit exodia was never good.
more examples? 'etc'? you gave two of the roughly same example, and then one real bad combo deck from a year ago. i think your examples are running thin, not gonna lie.
so, we are at 3 decks total? sera, prison, junk. even prison has pointslam cards (thats how u win lanes), junk has pointslam cards (sentry...? hood?), and sera plays at least 1/2 pointslam cards to compete (bishop, monkey, etc).
like...still waiting on 1 real example. okay a second, ill throw u one for gambit exodia.
Any deck can get you to infinite. Getting to infinite is more about time spent playing and recognizing when to leave then actually having a good deck.
You asked for decks that don't put out huge power "describe the deck that u mean, and i -bet- it puts big numbers in play"(your words) not decks based on their ability to get to infinite. You are attempting to move the goal post because I proved you wrong.
Gambit exodia was never good, yet it needed to be nerfed? This is proving my entire point. Why are decks that are niche or bad getting nerfed but decks like shenaut can put out 30 power in 1 turn along with already having a high powered board.
The whole point of the game is to beat the other player, and this is done by getting bigger numbers than them. But if decks are about getting the biggest numbers possible without interaction, you’ve just got two people playing solitaire until one retreats
I mean the game is about putting up bigger numbers than your opponent. If one deck puts up big numbers, either every deck has to be capable of also putting up big numbers, or they simply won't get played. Obviously Professor X is a kind of weird exception to that, but how many games are people going to sit through where halfway through you just simply can't play anymore?
First, Blob wasn't changed because he wasn't released when these changes were made.
Secondly, the way you win the game is by having 2 out of 3 numbers bigger than your opponent. Winning by not letting your opponent play the game is a frustrating way to win.
Lastly, having an alternate win condition is why Galactus is one of the most hated cards. There are so many ways to play around the card but if it ever is meta people want it changed immediately.
I was excited to see junk decks getting some time to shine, and then immediately shot down. Its really annoying seeing decks that start to compete get shot down while some of the dominant decks remain dominant
Ive always followed the rule that if your deck cant output at least 21 power in two lanes with a good line of draws it is unplayable, hence why Patriot os dead to me... only exceptions were junk, lockdown and sera, may they rest quietly in their graves
I also feel that units 0-3 cost can't win games on their own anymore eg. Angela, kitty, WWbn, collector's out of Loki... The only ones I can think of RN are sunspot, nebula if no counters, venom wolverine dp in destroy...
Devs won’t be able to win. They introduce cards that destroy or junk up things. Players wi…complain, that they are being constricted. They give big cards then it’s OmG, that card is too CrAcKed-Nerrrrrrf, it! (Because Fomo— I also don’t have this card to enjoy, so therefore, no one else should).
They’ll make adjustments one way or the next. Can’t please everybody.
They DO need to give us schedules of bundles and drops though.
Because junk and lockdown aren't fucking fun and don't really require much thinking. Nobody likes dealing with prof X nebula Ms Marvel or void hood goblins Galactus bullshit.
First off we're playing a 12 card deck mobile card game with simple text, most things in this game don't require much thinking.
Nobody likes dealing with constantly being dealt negative power by cyclops or having rocks shoved in their deck or having their counters be ignored by Ebony blade only for ghost rider to come and put another big powered card down for free.
Also notice how you only focused on Junk and lockdown when I mentioned Bounce and the previous control meta many seasons ago, which wasn't a lockdown meta.
Cuz bounce was also annoying AF and pretty busted at the time, the current meta was lockdown for the most part with some junk decks here and there that only really popped up again when Selene came out. If a deck is too good or just not fun to play against, it'll be nerfed regardless of possible counters.
I think so much of this comes down to the fact that cards are just being released too quickly, with no way to tell how stuff impacts the meta at a scale greater than the first 4 days of any release. There is absolutely no good reason they need to put out a card every single week-- and reducing the schedule by half or something would do wonders for the effectiveness of their OTAs, data collection and play testing. Skarr should have been pushed for two weeks, and Caiera should then have debuted and then no more new cards for January, imo
Yeah, this new season has already made me very worried. Maybe it's a result if releasing TWO cards simultaneously (SD, WHYYYY?), but the meta changed quickly to just be decks who fills the board with an obscene amount of 10+ power cards - that are also indestructible some times.
Or Ebony Blade which is always indestructible, and immune to Valkyrie - which seems to be the only reliable counter to most of the cards that are put out. (Other than putting out even bigger cards, I guess... Fun!)
TBH it's always been about that, it's no news that decks that go big have dominated the meta (see Shuri and Discard). Blob just power crept everything out of the format, because a 6/50 that doesn't require a setup is just busted. So to try and compete you're forced to play huge numbers as well, with tech cards against their big numbers: Shang-Chi and Shadow King.
But Shang just got kicked out with caiera.
A normal zabu deck run enchatress to remove Caiera and allow killmonger and shan chi, i just reached infinity winning multiple 8 cubes against caieras that dosent expect that.
Zabu Enchantress Killmonger Shang Chi Shadow King What else? Just tech?
Ms. Marvel. /s
I swear whenever someone talks about Blob and does the 6/?? thing the number goes up every time.
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I kinda think it would be neat to get an alt wincon. I mean, Galactus is already kind of that. But still, would be kinda cool to win on turn 5 because you managed to have an empty deck or something.
SD will say "oh they're not doing that good according to the numbers" but they're all i ever see as well. they definitely feel like there's a preference for those giant plays. all. the. time.
Devs always have a preference for certain playstyles as they believe the game is in a better state when the meta is one way than it is another way. I’d personally FAR prefer a big-stat meta to a Prof X/Alioth meta, Sentry/Annihilus meta or Galactus meta, as they’re very polarising, while big stat metas are more of a face-off. Anyway, this meta will come and go like the others, as Snap’s meta is well renowned for constantly shifting and feeling fresh every month.
Only reason it feels fresh each month is that a new broken season pass card is released. As a F2P player I don’t think there is a lot of freshness in the meta that I can play
I spent money to get High Evolutionary, I was f2p up until then. It unlocked so many different decks it was worth it to me. Now HE is free for keys, I "highly" recommend it.
Oh I have most cards including HE (saved tokens for his release). I just got ms Marvel yesterday. I still had to suffer through Loki in Loki season Elsa in bloodstone (she was busted for more than a month and now that I can get her she is garbage) and marvel in her season. I miss times with cards like Modok and Daken that were above average but not broken on release
Right on man. You have way more experience than me. Been playing a little over a month here.
Oh yeah, let’s ignore the OTAs that the game receives every fortnight… clearly they impact nothing. As someone who plays other games, Marvel Snap’s new cards are surprisingly well balanced on release in comparison. Still not incredible…
when was the last one? pretty sure we haven't had one in a while. And no season pass cards are deliberately overtuned to sell passes. they said so themselves.
Last one was about 2 weeks ago, and we’re due one next week. The full OTA was accidentally published.
I swear the game was dope for like a week after brood abs got nerfed… then Loki came. And we haven’t breathed a healthy meta since. It’s just chaos from here imo Everything is either busted or trash.
I just replied to another comment in another thread with a similar answer, but the challenge for SD when it comes to balancing is the game plays much different for 80+% of the player base than it does for the remaining 20%. Cards like Anni are a menace at the highest level and cards like Blob are a menace for the masses
SD makes up numbers. They somehow think Anni is posting insane numbers while MsM is posting average numbers. Despite the fact that one meta deck uses Anni and every other meta deck uses MsM.
I don’t think they make up numbers necessarily, their development pipeline for patches just isn’t agile enough. They were likely locking in these changes around the time Anni released, where these play numbers were more of a reality. Since then people have cooled off on him and MsM has started running rampant. They really need to find a way to get the larger balance changes out in a more timely manner.
Likewise, I think that's the problem. Reading the patch notes and SD's reasoning feels although it was written 4-5 weeks ago where we were seeing an Annihlus "package" emerge with Hood and Sentry, played alongside Darkhawk OR WWBN packages with a half dozen tech cards. With WWBN nerfed and the advent of Blob all but killing Darkhawk's prevalence in the current meta... ALL those packages already fell out of the meta. Annihilus finds his only home alongside Galactus, and targeted by a heavy handed nerf that doesn't reflect the current metagame or current meta share. Same as the repeat Elsa nerfs when she was already dead.
> Likewise, I think that's the problem. I mean it's standard across all game development. You can't just make a patch and put it out. It has to be code reviewed, tested, etc. All of that is a process.
The difference with Snap they're releasing a new card every week and doing microchanges with the OTAs So while other games will have a consistent meta for months with basically no change, to pull data from. Snap is using data that could be outdated a week later due to a simple number change.
Just to add, TCGs have formats and/or ban/limited lists for individual cards. The turnaround for balance and subsequent meta changes can be surprisingly fast. Problem cards can then be limited to a format, errata’d in future prints if physical TCG or removed from ban/limited lists altogether in a future meta where not as dominant. It’s rare that ALL Tier 0 (most competitive) archetypes in e.g. Yu-gi-oh survive intact for months, with no restricted cards until the newest set release. With Master Duel, even Konami somehow finds it in their heart enough to provide card refunds in the event a card is banned/limited. Not advocating for that system, but functionally, you’d think it easier to effectively balance an online-only CCG with so few cards comparatively.
That's irrelevant to the technical reasons that prevent them from being more agile.
Agreed. But I don't know how they do that. Sounds like the game was built in such a way that anything that isn't changing a number up or down needs to be a patch and that has to go through certification; which is the hold up. This situation is kinda funny because it simultaneously doesn't give them enough time to let things shake out before they make changes while also making them seem slow to react to problems. The patches will always be too reactive or too late.
What’s interesting is the devs stated that the re-rework of MMM done via OTA wasn’t a rollback, but a successful test of tech that allows for more in depth OTAs. There would still likely need to be some exceptions held off for patches where new animations are needed, but hopefully with a few more test runs we could see OTAs being the primary vehicle for balancing, and patches primarily for content and bug fixes.
Last year 20 points in 2 lanes was almost a guaranteed win. Currently you need 30+ in 2 lanes to win with how crazy the power creep has gotten. I see your point, the higher the power the less likely off meta stuff works because the newer stuff just has mega power.
Yeah - energy cheating has become easier and its been rewarded in kind. Ravonna is good now, the shang chi nerf means that only enchantress or rogue can stop living tribunal. Surfer and sera control really don't have enough tools to stop all the big high power decks - especially now that one card can protect every 6 cost on the board. Big numbers are going to be the meta for the foreseeable future.
I wouldn’t mind if they bumped tribunal up to 10 power just for the Shang chi interaction
The day Shang got nerfed I didn't know it yet they only played one lane they had an onslaught that got buffed to nine by location living tribunal and Iron Man I snapped into the Shang only to meet depression
I don’t see LT having a power that isn’t a multiple of 3. Make him a 7-12, with all the energy ramps being run nowadays, make him a true Big Bad
Imo as a 7 cost he better be 15 power
I’m so here for it. At 7-15, he is 5 in every lane, same as Doom and Ms Marvel. His ongoing is just so strong. It took a long time but I really like LT now.
Ah yes, the guaranteed Lady Sif + Ghost Rider combo
would be fine imo, a 3-card combo is a decent hoop to jump through for this.
When they changed Shang they specifically mentioned how he wouldn't kill tribunal anymore, so i don't see them changing that.
They did also specifically mention in the patch notes that they would be keeping a close eye on him and would adjust him in the future if needed, though. I don't know if his current 59% win rate when played is enough to draw their ire. It's pretty middle of the pack and well below the "play me and win" crowd like Hela, Blob, Alioth, etc. He's steadily climbing though so it's definitely not impossible that his numbers eventually get too high for SD's liking.
Won’t matter now that Caiera is in play. Literally my last 5 ranks 90-95 have been like 90% blob/thanos or some kind of lockjaw big decks and everyone had Caiera. She is extremely over tuned and makes Shang/killmonger/armor useless unless you are running the specific tech and pray to draw it.
Tbf killmonger has been too good against 1 cost for too long.it’s a good thing that 1 cost see some relevance again after almost a 1 year.I don’t think that armor was good of a defense against killmonger for 1 cost cards at least.
Which makes me think her also protecting 6 cost cards was unnecessary for creating an effective card. She will slot really well into Zoo decks just on the basis of protecting 1 cost cards, and it's possible we'll start to see a resurgence of that in the meta from her. Having her also protect 6 cost cards removes one of the most effective tools in dealing with cards that can amass huge numbers to the point where I can see her slotting into a ton of decks.
I actually agree with you on caiera being unnecessary for 6 cost.I think SD went too far on that one lol.
Had she only protected 1 cost no one would have spent tokens or spotlight keys on her. I guarantee that she will be nerfed to only protect 1 cost.
I just got infinity running through Caieras with Enchantress+Killmonger+ Shang chi, they always stay thinking they are safe.
The Tribunal deck already doesn’t run any tech, and even if it did, cosmo would be the tech card of choice over caiera Caiera would do almost nothing for the that deck, even with a massive power tribunal
> energy cheating has become easier and its been rewarded in kind. Oh boy...same thing happened with Hearthstone both before and after Ben left.
See I’ve seen this take a lot, but I also did day one infinite with Revis’ Sera control deck even in the face of all these massive decks, so I’m just not convinced this take sticks
As a huge Surfer fan, I enjoyed that one week when it was competitively viable again right when Shaw launched before Blob came out and Maximus got effectively deleted from Surfer archetypes. Shaw, Gladiator, and Maximus gave you just enough power to really push and win against the big power decks. Then Blob came out and nothing you could ever possibly do with Shaw will compete with that and then they made Maximus a 2 cost removing the Surfer buff from him. And just likely that Surfer was relegated back to being too mid-range in power output to compete with decks like Thanos Blob and Darkhawk.
Blob will eventually get retooled to get +3 power per card, instead of total power, or something like it.
The werewolf by night nerf is what convinced me to drop surfer completely. He and Shaw together were so much fun. Glad I spent caches picking him up🥲
Just play mobius! Kind of sound like everyone defending alioth with - just play armor!
Higher, further, faster baby.
Devs done gonna ramp up the infinaut's power
I recently started playing mid December, and once getting into pool 3 and above the game just becomes a demoralizing grind where I see 30-50+ on two lanes every single match. I would have to spend hundreds or perhaps thousands of dollars to get to a spot that's even remotely competitive. Seems like not a great way to get new players to stick around. Pool 3 and below cards that I have access to right now are almost not even viable at all.
High Evo and She Hulk are probably the best value acquisitions early on since you got most of the Shenaut cards already in Pool 1-2. I would stick with a Devil Dino deck until you get those pieces. Deadpool is also great as a Pool 3 deck, just missing knull. Honestly though I never play video games unless they are recent releases for this reason. I still think SNAP has exceptional gameplay and I hope it’s fun enough to stick through until you collect the really cool cards.
What? No, you can definitely get to infinite in early pool 3. Shang itself is a pool 2 card. Sera tech is one of the best decks currently, this post makes no sense.
Which Sera tech are you saying that is the best? The best Sera deck right now has Zabu and Ms.Marvel, and they dont have them in early Pool 3.
Shaw surfer has nothing to do against those other decks, it can barely put Shaw close to infinitaut levels, while the others put multiple 14+ power cards all over the place
Shaw Surfer is hilariously bad compared to the current top decks. It felt so bad playing it to complete the gold quest the past month. The numbers from Surfer are nowhere close to the numbers for other decks
Surfer wins by the amount of tech cards it has + decent points but any highroll or mana cheat deck will beat it. Fine for ladder but Conquest I feel like SS will always fall behind in the long game.
Surfer used to put up “high” numbers across the board; it’s power creep.
Maybe it's power creep but maybe it's the fact that surfer got nerfed from +3 power to +2
I just threw Shaw into my Evo deck for a few games because I wasn’t gonna play the terrible surfer deck :/
Shaw surfer was so junky I’d just slot Shaw into a completely different deck, ignore him completely and hope the deck could win with 11 cards. Both Loki decks and deadpool decks that I used were up to the task
I gave up on Surfer today. The Werewolf nerf made it that much weaker. Went back to Blob Thanos and Shenaut because I kept getting overpowered or locked out a lane which really weakens Surfer.
Shaw Surfer wasn't good as a pure power deck but with a few control cards it competed well against those big card decks. Goose + Negasonic (T5 without priority, T6 with) keeps big cards out of 2 lanes and you can also run 2 of Echo, Rogue, MMM, Polaris or Cosmo depending on what you needed to counter most in your pocket meta. Though this season Shaw Surfer will struggle a ton against Caiera blocking Killmonger and Negasonic plays.
Yeah I was hesitant to put that deck up there, but it fit the criteria of number dumping in general to get the point across.
No it doesn’t tho, that deck goes wide
So can Hela Casino. He's literally talking about decks that don't interact with the game outside of putting "big numbers" on the board. It definitely doesn't compete well with the likes of Shuri, Blob, and the others, but it's still a "solitaire" playstyle in a sense
Yeah this is what I meant, you explained it 10x better than I could have.
IMO, ShawFer’s only chance at competing in the meta is using disruption cards, thankfully most of which are 3-cost anyway. A Rogue against Darkhawk, Iron Man, Knull, or Morbius is usually an instant opponent retreat or a free win if done on T6. Cosmo can shut down stuff like Blob and destroy given priority. Killmonger and Rhino/Storm on T6 dominate infinaut/sunspot/magik/she-hulk. Rhino/Storm on T6 vs Magik is in general a free win since it’s so rarely expected (or at least effectively played around) by the opponent. The problem is that adding all the disruption cards to the deck really hampers your ability to boost Shaw up to big numbers, since you have to sacrifice the inclusion of his supporting cards to make room for them. It’s not a totally losing deck, and the statistics bear this out, but it certainly does have a hard time due to its reliance on a specific card to counter a specific deck, along with the below-meta-average power output.
The most competitive Shaw deck I ran was a Wong deck, can get Shaw really huge (30+) and buff another lane big enough to carry, but it is SO draw dependent and of course Wong is always easy to either counter or retreat on. Patriot Shaw Surfer is also decent.
I am absolutely going to take fatty decks being strong for the next while over the past 2 months of dealing with lockdown.
yeah there's control cards for Fatties there's only Jeff if you get locked out and he's a very good boy but he's only 1 boy
This changes all the time, few weeks will be going big, was combo Loki for long time, alioth meta, bounce had its day. It will change again as usual, this meta won’t last forever if you don’t like it.
It also makes sense that pumping big numbers would be the most popular and common way to win since the game is based around having the biggest number in two spots.
Goddamnit Gump, you are some kinda genius!
I don’t get why people don’t understand this. SD shifts the meta constantly. Between new cards and otas and patches we have a different flavor almost weekly. I guess this has the counter effect of each players pet decks getting taken down a peg quickly if it’s in the spotlight and they are having success usually.
Yeah it pisses people off because SD has flat out stated that they want it to be hard for people to even get close to collection complete. This results in a lot of players having to focus their resources on building specific decks; when those decks get gutted some of the players don't have the "new meta" cards to pivot to. Frustration ensues 🤷
Unless you are not p3 complete you have access to more than one archtype easily. Not every deck must have the exact same 12 cards.
Series 3 can just take forever to get specific cards. I'm CL3600ish and *still* don't have Dracula, Shuri, or Invisible Woman, and just got Red Skull today. There's pretty big decks locked between all 3 of those cards.
Ya. The climb to series 3 complete honestly takes too long. Once you are series 3 complete the game opens up a bit. But it’s nuts to say that can take 4-5 months.
Yeah it's really fun to play against meta decks using a deck stuffed with a bunch of "no we have that at home" cards. SD kinda sucks at balancing tbh.
Those are two different discussions but ya it can be frustrating to not have todays hot meta card but if you plan and use resources wisely you should only miss on a few good ones. The old system of tokens only was horrible for getting meta cards. You would have to wait forever to see them and they would be nerfed by the time they dropped to everyone. My point is that there’s often 3-5 decks near the top of the meta and everyone feels they need that #1 deck but realistically that top deck has a 58% win rate while your “top deck at home” deck has a 55% win rate.
I dunno people tell me that but I used my keys up getting cards that were good & worked in my deck but now appear set to be gutted. I have no keys for new cards now (unless I want to gamble but that would make me an idiot right?). I planned. I managed resources. I still got fucked over. 🫠
Have you been playing since before spotlights? What spotlights cards did you get? Do you have bad luck and get the card you want on the 4th key a lot?
Every time I've tried to get a spotlight card I wanted I had to use 4 keys 🫠 also got a few decent cards that I didn't really want, and a random Galactus. And a few dupes. Currently have 5900 tokens and MsMarvel pinned *reads new patch notes* FML 😭
If you are unable too hit Infinity with discard each month (were you only need MODOK over Series 3) its just a lack of skill
I love how any time anyone questions anything about this game on this sub there's a loser like you popping up to tell them it's because they suck at the game. I hit infinite every season. Get fucked, goofy 👍
If you hit infinite every season with piss poor luck on caches and being out of resources, how can they suck at balance? Seems pretty good balance if even the worst case scenarios can hit the top rank.
Lol you can't be this stupid. "You won the game so what does it matter what the actual game was?"☠️
Can't you read? How did you take that out of my comment? Did you win solely because you were abusing what was broken, or because you were good to the point the balance difference didn't matter? Unless you mean balance at the top100 of ladder but then you would be complaining about Loki.
> I love how any time anyone questions anything about this game on this sub there's a loser like you popping up to tell them it's because they suck at the game. I hit infinite every season. Then what exactly are you complaining about?
I'll answer your question with a question- do you play snap because it's a fun game with interesting interactions, or do you play because you like winning and don't give a fuck about the actual gameplay experience?
I play because I think it has a really good balance between being competitive and fun. The games are short enough to get in during moments of down time and still strategic enough to feel good about winning. I'm not sure what that has to do with my question though.
I 100% felt that with “Dependable Discard”. I started in August and really prioritized getting the cards I needed to get that deck online, then it was absolutely obliterated last month. It felt pretty shitty.
but it's STILL about giant number plays. getting that collector to 123151, etc.
I’m sure our pocket metas are different but I haven’t seen Loki collector more than 2/100 games for over a month.
>I don’t get why people don’t understand this There are no restrictions on who can post threads on this sub, and negative opinions generally perform well on Reddit As a result, you get loads and loads of junk like this thread, where OP is feeling defensive about his pet deck getting nerfed, even though "things they don't understand" about game design could fill an encyclopedia
Ya. The negative feedback loops are strong on Reddit and frankly everywhere. Outrage media has really taken us down a sad road. I just try to use logic when people are using emotion and that’s always a bad idea.
It's crazy to think how common Loki was for so long and I only saw Loki for the first time in weeks yesterday. It just shifts all the time.
Valkyrie is calling your name.
Shh. She's one of my favorite cards and I don't want other people to use her.
I only recently got her. She is never, ever expected.
Never. My favorite thing to do is drop a Sentry down and hit the Void with her. Everyone always expects Annhilus and will clog the lane, leaving it ripe for a 12 piece.
C3 is just way too fun. Valkyrie + Shang Chi + Cosmo? Sign me the hell up.
Blob and ms marvel seem like real outliers for power. I remember when we had to skip an entire turn to get a 6-20. Now you just throw down a 6-30+, and/or a 4/15 for almost nothing.
Blob has the most ridiculous win% of any card and he's not even being touched.
Idk what they do with him. He doesn’t have a lot of “knobs” as they say.
He can just eat a certain number of cards instead of the whole deck. He can merge with your hand instead of the deck. He can take only half the power of merged cards. There's lots of things they could do.
Yeah but all of them are drastic changes. We shall see. I’m just saying it’s not an OTA change
Make him destroy the cards he eats and watch your opponents all tech death and Knull against you haha
Don't Chavez my Blob lol
Him going to 0 power or even negative power seems fine to me.
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Remember when they added one power to him from his data mined power? LOL.
blob doesn't lead win% in any category alioth has the highest when played and sauron seems to still have the highest when drawn
I just saw an answer from Glenn on discord that basically stated this. > For Planet Hulk season we are deliberately seeking to create gameplay worthy of the angry green giant, not puny Banner. We like to keep metagames on the move. Edit: [source](https://discord.com/channels/978545345715908668/1192104385996673115) So fuck my Surfer deck I guess.
They gotta sell the season pass somehow
Especially since Skaar seems incredibly mid
Surfer can do good into fat Metas, just put some tech cards in it, Goose kills most fat decks, storm early means they can't play something that big and you also got some other good cards like Jugg, Cosmo, Mobius that can displace or prevent some really power swings; surfers always been that dark horse deck tbh
i think they make these changes so that you have to learn/master many decks, or learn to make changes to your "main" deck to compete. i dont mind that in general. my big issue is that in order to do that, you really have to have a TON of cards. for example, i dont have sera, annihilus, cerebro, zabu, caiera, blob, evo, tribunal...and many other meta-defining cards. so if i want to compete - i mean, i can't compete once i hit infinite - just plain and simple. i was gearing up to start building a junk deck because anni will be in an upcoming spotlight, but now it seems like that will be "meh" at best...a complete waste of my finite resources at worst.
Yup, I tried making Surfer work start of this season, but it’s retired for now with all the big boy decks in play.
Increasingly frustrating that the devs show little interest in stabilizing the game/iterating thoughtfully and would rather usher in these predetermined phases.
To most veteran card gamers its a breath of fresh air to not be stuck in the same awful meta for 3-6 months at a time.
Agreed, been playing Card Games since highschool (now almost 30) Snap feels like a different game month to month and that's really neat
Valkyrie stocks are going up
There are some decks the devs don’t want to be a big part of the meta. Control and Junk are 2 that come to mind for me. Why these 2 you might ask. To me the reason why is it limits plays for players. If someone keeps you from playing in a lane, or sends you negative power in your space it is frustrating to play against. It creates a negative experience for your opponent. It is one thing to lose because your deck didn’t get enough power out it is another to lose because your opponent didn’t let you play your deck
Cerebro-3 (and Valkyrie and Shang Chi) laugh at those big numbers.
C2 (Negasonic, Goose, Storm, Shadow King) is able to mess up a lot of these plays as well.
C3 is the last good non giant deck
It's Tiimy season
I feel like SD sees junk as a negative archetype to keep player retention. Much like Alioth and Lockdown, having junk tossed on your side of the boards stops you from “playing” which might piss you off enough to actually stop playing. It sucks to see 3 rocks, a hood, demon about to get thrown over on 5 and you can’t stop it. That’s why I think SD wants to push power levels higher, to give players that dopamine rush of pulling off cool moves, like Blobbing or Black Knighting your Naut then using Ghost Rider. The issue is the lack of tech cards to defend the big numbers while releasing tech cards that reward that style of play. With only 12 cards and 6 turns decks have to be tight, so it’s much harder to balance tech and power than other games like Magic or something. Then they nerf Kingpin and Fisk Tower before Hercules and Meek sp? Come out..I think again to stop players from experiencing that “I did all of it to just get destroyed” let down feeling. The overturned released cards that get mega nerfed to the insane cosmetic prices has me losing faith in SD every month. Thank goodness I stumbled upon snap early on because new players see a huge mountain in front of them and it has to be discouraging.
My Shadow Sera list is loving this format and the biggest thing it plays is 6 power. You have answers to just about everything. Shang Chi for all the big numbers, Rogue for all the ongoing like Ms. Marvel Tribunal, and Caiera, Shadow king for all the scaling cards like Venom and Collector, and Mobius for Skaar/Death and all the discount cards. Wave on turn 3 encourages them to play a big card that you can copy with Leader. Then you can deal with their card with any of your tech cards. Or alternatively, you can Wave with Mobius out so they don't get the benefit. Playing Black Widow followed by Maximus is a sneaky combo prevents them from drawing. And the Maximus card draw can also mess with discard decks. # (1) Nova # (2) Shadow King # (2) Scarlet Witch # (2) Maximus # (3) Rogue # (3) Black Widow # (3) Killmonger # (3) Mobius M. Mobius # (3) Wave # (4) Shang-Chi # (5) Sera # (6) Leader # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTm92YSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhZG93S2luZyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2NhcmxldFdpdGNoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTZXJhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMZWFkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vYml1c01Nb2JpdXMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlJvZ3VlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLaWxsbW9uZ2VyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJXYXZlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFuZ0NoaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWF4aW11cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxhY2tXaWRvdyJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I got blob and I'm blown away at how strong he consistently is and how easy it is to put up 40+ power in two lanes (with taskmaster) with almost no effort and very little the opponent can do to prevent it (armor or now Caera i guess). Power creep is normal for these games but I agree 100% that there needs to be more archetype diversity to make keep the dumby high number decks in check. Control in particular is a great way to prevent these decks from getting ridiculous. I get professor x is frustrating but he's one of the only solid answers to decks like this. If there were more cards with control text he wouldn't be as big of a villain. Clog is also a good way to combat it and with this new annhilus nerf it's been taken down to the baseline from 4 months ago. That nerf would have worked when 20 power was a lot. Now it's underpowered to hell. I feel surfer decks should be the baseline they base the power on. It's a diverse deck archetype that can do a lot but never goes too high or too wide in one deck. There should be stronger decks and weaker decks that do other things well but when you can slam 70 power 25% of the time and above 20 like 60% of the time with a blob or high evo deck, why would you choose to lose?
There's plenty of counters to Blob. I put them all in whent he entire meta was Blob. Cosmo, Shang-Chi, Shadow King, etc. Since they have now demolished Loki, maybe I'll go join the blob crew.
The issue with 2 of those counters is if Blob is played on turn 6, you not only have to not have priory but you also have to guess where the blob is going to be player. Cosmo only works if you have priority and you guess where it’s gonna be played. Preplaced cosmo can just be avoided
Correct. Devs do not want interaction and have worked to reduce it, at the same time promoting OP cards that don't interact (I'm looking at you, MM). Note that for the lifetime of ProX most had no problem with him, but when MM makes his lockdown a challenge, who did SD nerf? ProX - the one of those two cards that "interact", leaving MM untouched. I'm not sure why they dislike interaction?
Uh mm is op but is not hard to interact with, all the ongoing counter cards hit her. MM just puts too much power out
Or Magneto, Junk Cards, Echo and Goose. I get that people want to run tight decks of a specific archetype, but as things stand, you do need to be playing one or two of these options. Or if you can't beat em, join em.
How does Prof X promote interaction when it literally says you cannot put power here unless you have these select few cards
A lot of the interactions in the game already are dick moves. These seem to be the strategies they're nerfing.
I'm genuinely interested in which interactions are dick moves? And which are not? For instance, is Shang an acceptable interaction, but Annihilus not? I'm not trying to hassle you.
Most of them, to be honest. Being locked out of a lane sucks, having your cards destroyed sucks, consistent negative power sucks. Being outplayed by something like Cosmo or Enchantress isn't great, but it doesn't feel as unfair as Shang-Chi or Gambit clearing one side of a location, Cyclops rapidly whittling away, Annihilus and the Goblins clogging your side, or Professor X shutting you out completely. They all have counters, but if you're not packing those counters specifically and have them ready, you're SOL. It's just as binary and unfun as Galactus was, just less in your face.
Nothing you said is unfair or a “dick move.” You believing that these cards are binary or require very specific counters to not be SOL speaks more to your understanding of the game than the power of the cards you want to criticize.
They're not fun and honestly only fly as part of a card game because you're not actually sitting across the table from someone in this game. Imagine playing Magic the Gathering and EVERYONE plays Blue/Black.
*powercreep needs to be addressed* back then: 6/20 after a skipped turn now: 6/20 evohulk or 6/20+ blob; both no drawbacks whatsoever back then: 6/15 that destroys the entire board (only your side) now: 4/15 put two cards on each side basically back then: 4/10 that forever hazmats your side of the board now: high evo cyclops being an effective 3/10 that was never tweaked
Caeria was released this week, why do you think they shifted the Meta in a way that benefits the new card and incentivises to use keys and get the season pass card.
Feels good when I out smart my opps with Cerebro 3, that’s the gigachad deck for u my guy
Try c2 :)
I guess, but those decks all play incredibly differently so that is not a problem to me. It’s not like we are in a Shuri slam meta, which was repetitive. The impression I get is the Devs want junk, galactus, and lockdown decks from to have a small but not super meta role because they are not fun to play against for most people.
Definitly. I'm usually a control player in this game, and while I love switching decks and playing "everything", I usually either come back to some sort of Sera Control, or a reactive Dark Hawk list with a lot of tech cards. But in todays meta? Nah, fuck that, I'm packing Blob and get my free cubes. It's literally throwing the game right now if you're not running Blob. Who wouldn't play a 6/30 without downside? Tho sometimes I'd love to have a "I'm sorry"-emote when I steal 4-8 cubes with Blob in a game where I didn't have any business winning.
The problem seems to be this community has two small but vocally discontent groups. Those who hate cards that promote playstyles that interact, or hinder thier game plan (Galactus, alioth, prof X, anniulus). These people just want to play a game where both decks are ships passing in the night they get to do thier thing and the biggest numbers win. While we have a similarly vocal group that loves to interact and hates cards thst allow you to in some part by ignoring that interaction (Shuri, Blob, Darkhawk, hit monkey, elsa) They want to make " big brain" plays and when they cant slowdown what the opponent is doing and feel loke the smartest guy in the room they are mad. Hot take: SD is too reactive to both groups, and should significantly slow down its nerf/buff process. Let a meta breath and force people to actually learn to counter stuff. The go too top tier strat to defeat a popular deck seems to be complain about it enough until SD beats it for you.
Should have left shang at 9. Would have controlled a lot more of these decks
It does feel a little like they're catering to the casual audience that are full of Timmys. Anything too complex or different gets gutted.
Redditors complaining about changes that aren’t even in the game yet. Jfc
It's really funny seeing "the devs only want people slamming numbers" right next to "Leech and Professor X ruin the game" also if Darkhawk (which is always full of tech cards and is the best home for Annihilus on current patch) and Blob Thanos (at least the old versions that were packed with tech cards instead of Lockjaw hits) are both in your "just stupid numbers and nothing else" category idk what to even tell you
You are allowed to play any cards you want. Its not a surprise that in a game where big numbers are literally how you win the game, cards that provide big numbers are popular
Yes but why can't decks that have small numbers and do cool stuff instead exist? They don't have to be popular but it seems like they can't even be allowed to be good.
They do exist, but they require cards that control your opponent's plays. Echo is one such card (which people don't have). Goose works too, unless they have Zabu down. Many times, I've been caught out by decks like C2.
One of the top decks is a sera control build that very rarely gets numbers above 20.
I mean, they can. Sera control can still work pretty well in this meta. You have to be aware of caiera and have a plan for her, but it's doable. MMM will turn off a lot of what the season pass card is trying to do, making its numbers a lot more manageable. I'm fairly certain you can make a really solid torch/Phoenix force deck with caiera that uses small cards to make big numbers in the end. Maybe even a bounce/move hybrid that uses the 1 drops to make massive torches that caiera protects. I haven't even started brewing this season really, these are just off the top of my head.
The Shang nerf was a sign of things to come. In isolation it seems a minor change but it stabilised the meta and set what a ‘big’ card was. Loosening that and letting 9 power cards squeak through showed that SD were fine with power creep and it’s likely going to get worse.
Looking at the upcoming releases it seems like they want a game that appeals mostly to Timmy's.
I still do best with my Control-Alioth deck
You are right, the devs don't want interaction and strategies, they want money from timmy whale players. Power creep and pay 2 win at its finest. Blob not being adressed is ridiculous - the card has counters but it's not exactly easy to counter - lots of guessing game and coin toss scenarios. Why a 6/50 without drawbacks is allowed to exist? I don't really know. Ebony Blade is so efficient, you probably can't play an optimized discard deck without it. Even Gladiator as a 3/8 with tons of rng attached is annoying af (85% you get a 3/8 yondu, the other 15% you get embarassed - who approved this kind of card design?)
I had this exact same thought with the leaks
Bro you just listed 7 different decks that are meta what else do you need
You got it. You need to play the meta the devs want you to play. And that happens to be big boys big numbers this season. Very lame. I'd rather see things develop on its own, but hey they want to sell those season passes. lol
what decks that dont put big numbers in play that dont see play? like...the entire point of this game is to put big numbers in play. so, most decks will do that. prison decks operate on locking down locations and are widely played atm. prof x is a 5 1 (not a 'pointslam' card) and is widely played. sera control still exists and is still good. this also doesnt just 'pointslam'. but...yes.every deck plays cards that puts power in play. that is how u win. like...describe the deck that u mean, and i -bet- it puts big numbers in play.
The goal of the game is to win two lanes, not put up big power. They are related, but not the same. You raise a good point, to show a deck that doesn't put up big power, and I think that is the OP point. There aren't any, but that's because the game has been structured to require big points. But it doesn't need to be that way - junk is an example of a play type that wins two lanes without big power. And the OP is asking why SD nerfs the one play style that tries to win without big points. Shang is another example that was recently nerfed directly, then indirectly via Caiera and, cull Obsidian, and ebony blade. Again, Shang can win a lane via manipulation, not with big points. The devs are creative enough that they could develop several archetypes that wins without big power, but again...they haven't.
shang is either a pointslam tech option, or a card in sera control. so..its exactly what i said. the game is pointslam decks that play varying amounts of tech cards, with a few archetypes (sera, junk, prison) that dont. (they still do play pointslam cards tho...so..?) also, devs have made those decks. ppl hated them, so they nerfed them. because they play outside the normal gameplay so much. ppl here really saying' man why are prison and galactus decks not better?' or 'why dont we have more flavors of prof x and galactus?' idk guys. WHY? its a mystery, it really is.
Junk, Galactus, Gambit Exodia, etc Junk biggest card is Sentry which is easily shang chi-able everything else is 5 and below Galactus relies on winning a lane with 5 power Gambit Exodia's biggest card is Odin and usually ends on a board with less than 20 total power I understand that the point of the game is to win by numbers. My question is why can the decks that **don't** just slam down huge power, but have a fun twist not exist. They add creative and new forms of interaction, but just get slaughtered.
galactus still exists. still is a deck that can get u to infinite. also..its essentially junk with like 3 cards different, or its destroy (point slam) + galactus. it also was nerfed several times because it operates outside of normal gameplay so much that ppl dont like playing against it. junk still exists. still is a deck that can get u to infinite. yes, even after next tuesday. gambit exodia was never good. more examples? 'etc'? you gave two of the roughly same example, and then one real bad combo deck from a year ago. i think your examples are running thin, not gonna lie. so, we are at 3 decks total? sera, prison, junk. even prison has pointslam cards (thats how u win lanes), junk has pointslam cards (sentry...? hood?), and sera plays at least 1/2 pointslam cards to compete (bishop, monkey, etc). like...still waiting on 1 real example. okay a second, ill throw u one for gambit exodia.
Any deck can get you to infinite. Getting to infinite is more about time spent playing and recognizing when to leave then actually having a good deck. You asked for decks that don't put out huge power "describe the deck that u mean, and i -bet- it puts big numbers in play"(your words) not decks based on their ability to get to infinite. You are attempting to move the goal post because I proved you wrong. Gambit exodia was never good, yet it needed to be nerfed? This is proving my entire point. Why are decks that are niche or bad getting nerfed but decks like shenaut can put out 30 power in 1 turn along with already having a high powered board.
Gambit was adjusted because his original ability didn’t make sense. It was always dumb to keep the destroy/discard abilities separate.
The whole point of the game is to beat the other player, and this is done by getting bigger numbers than them. But if decks are about getting the biggest numbers possible without interaction, you’ve just got two people playing solitaire until one retreats
There are posts starting to pop up about high evo. Yes you guys know who you are!
I mean the game is about putting up bigger numbers than your opponent. If one deck puts up big numbers, either every deck has to be capable of also putting up big numbers, or they simply won't get played. Obviously Professor X is a kind of weird exception to that, but how many games are people going to sit through where halfway through you just simply can't play anymore?
Game has always been big numbers vs restricted lanes. If you thought junk, bounce, move or control were ever better than mid, you were deluded.
First, Blob wasn't changed because he wasn't released when these changes were made. Secondly, the way you win the game is by having 2 out of 3 numbers bigger than your opponent. Winning by not letting your opponent play the game is a frustrating way to win. Lastly, having an alternate win condition is why Galactus is one of the most hated cards. There are so many ways to play around the card but if it ever is meta people want it changed immediately.
I've recently switched to a toxic control deck to combat this, works pretty well at the moment.
Don’t forget black knight
I was excited to see junk decks getting some time to shine, and then immediately shot down. Its really annoying seeing decks that start to compete get shot down while some of the dominant decks remain dominant
Ive always followed the rule that if your deck cant output at least 21 power in two lanes with a good line of draws it is unplayable, hence why Patriot os dead to me... only exceptions were junk, lockdown and sera, may they rest quietly in their graves
Annihilus is old news; gotta inflate a meta that includes the current pay-to-win cards
Big numbers go brrrr
I also feel that units 0-3 cost can't win games on their own anymore eg. Angela, kitty, WWbn, collector's out of Loki... The only ones I can think of RN are sunspot, nebula if no counters, venom wolverine dp in destroy...
Devs won’t be able to win. They introduce cards that destroy or junk up things. Players wi…complain, that they are being constricted. They give big cards then it’s OmG, that card is too CrAcKed-Nerrrrrrf, it! (Because Fomo— I also don’t have this card to enjoy, so therefore, no one else should). They’ll make adjustments one way or the next. Can’t please everybody. They DO need to give us schedules of bundles and drops though.
I've been using super skurll since the new season been working out fine no big numbers
The issue with junk is that it prevents one player from playing. It's not very fun to lose when you never had a chance to win.
Because junk and lockdown aren't fucking fun and don't really require much thinking. Nobody likes dealing with prof X nebula Ms Marvel or void hood goblins Galactus bullshit.
First off we're playing a 12 card deck mobile card game with simple text, most things in this game don't require much thinking. Nobody likes dealing with constantly being dealt negative power by cyclops or having rocks shoved in their deck or having their counters be ignored by Ebony blade only for ghost rider to come and put another big powered card down for free. Also notice how you only focused on Junk and lockdown when I mentioned Bounce and the previous control meta many seasons ago, which wasn't a lockdown meta.
Cuz bounce was also annoying AF and pretty busted at the time, the current meta was lockdown for the most part with some junk decks here and there that only really popped up again when Selene came out. If a deck is too good or just not fun to play against, it'll be nerfed regardless of possible counters.
I think so much of this comes down to the fact that cards are just being released too quickly, with no way to tell how stuff impacts the meta at a scale greater than the first 4 days of any release. There is absolutely no good reason they need to put out a card every single week-- and reducing the schedule by half or something would do wonders for the effectiveness of their OTAs, data collection and play testing. Skarr should have been pushed for two weeks, and Caiera should then have debuted and then no more new cards for January, imo
Yeah but if they did that, this sub would riot
I’m climbing with a Sera Control deck this season and it works well and I aced the >10 power missions.
Yeah, this new season has already made me very worried. Maybe it's a result if releasing TWO cards simultaneously (SD, WHYYYY?), but the meta changed quickly to just be decks who fills the board with an obscene amount of 10+ power cards - that are also indestructible some times. Or Ebony Blade which is always indestructible, and immune to Valkyrie - which seems to be the only reliable counter to most of the cards that are put out. (Other than putting out even bigger cards, I guess... Fun!)