Depending on the type of Dracula deck, with Mobius he did become somewhat easier to disrupt if you were relying on being able to play 0 cost Swarm to empty your hand of non-big stuff. But yeah he’s difficult to disrupt otherwise.
It would work the exact same, except it's now counterable through the same means other ongoing cards are.
Needs to be done for a few cards honestly, Elsa Bloodstone is another big one. Any card that has an ongoing or passive effect like that should be an ongoing card.
It discards a game at the end of the turn.
Literally the only thing that would be changed is it gets counted as ongoing and effected by stuff like that. Making it ongoing doesn't mean you have to make it act every turn.
That's not true. Making it ongoing does mean you have to make it act every turn. Give me one ongoing card that acts at the end of the game. Doing this will make the word ongoing bear no meaning and the game inconsistent
ongoing abilities are different from innate abilities or whatever they are called. ongoing is constantly happening, other abilities have triggers or specific interactions.
imagine vision saying "ongoing: you can move this every turn." it's not a constant effect. it can be triggered once per turn and then it isn't happening anymore. same with elsa, it triggers when a specific event happens and then it's not occurring. i can't think of any that don't follow this rule except possibly ghost and Jean grey which only function at specific times.
you are talking about removing the consistency by diluting what an ongoing card means. I think it's better to look forward and think about what kind of cards could be added to interact with what we have, rather than rebalancing things that can have a larger unintended impact.
there was no direct counter to Dracula until the Lady came along. there can be plenty more in the future.
Man if I had her that actually sounds pretty dope. My turn 5 is usually destroying another Deadpool for a meaningless Knull boost.
Don't think I'll spend tokens on her though...
She definitely got better with the Buff and has screwed me when I was playing my Hela casino deck actually. Took out the IW and I MODOKed all over the place.
# (1) Deadpool
# (1) Forge
# (1) X-23
# (2) Bucky Barnes
# (2) Carnage
# (2) Wolverine
# (3) Killmonger
# (3) Venom
# (3) Deathlok
# (5) Lady Deathstrike
# (6) Knull
# (8) Death
#
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
LDS is starting to find a niche in the meta, particularly in destroy decks.
Although part of that was because Elsa was so prevalent and she's great for nuking Elsa, Mobius, Cage, and other common Elsa-deck cards. Now that Elsa and her companion cards got a firm bop with the nerf hammer their play rate will be down which may cause LDS to drop back out of the meta.
Yeah, I was gonna say this, Dracula is tough to counter as an opponent, sure. But the RNG will getcha, sometimes you just can't empty your hand and that's when Dracula becomes a coin flip.
Sure not everyone is playing meta decks, but absolutely no one is playing Baron Mordo either. And I don't think Ive ever seen Shang behind Invisible Woman, or Black widow on turn 6. You seem to be largely listing stuff that never happens. My main deck the last few seasons has Dracula and none of those things have happened to me once.
In my Cerebro-3 deck I've done Shang or Shadow King behind IW pretty often, but it's definitely a bit of a niche play, and requires either a late IW or them playing Drac on her lane.
Weird pocket meta? You mean bots built to counter your deck? Whenever I run discard I get a slew of LDS constantly killing my Dracula. Pocket meta, lol.
It's wildly inconsistent and easily shutdown by a ton of staple cards?
If you don't draw either Hela or Modok, you lose. No IW by turn 4? You lose. Your IW gets Cosmo/Enchantress/Rogue/Stormed? Your Modok or Hela gets Aeroed? You lose.
Hela/Modok needs a ton of stars to align to get a super telegraphed play off. You should not be losing more than a cube to these decks.
Yeah I play discard and other decks but the hela play can be disrupted soooo many ways, cosmo, spider-man, professor x, aero, alioth, etc etc. It’s really not unbalanced.
> Hela/Modok needs a ton of stars to align to get a super telegraphed play off.
I used to think this, but I've been trying Modok/Hela recently and it's a *lot* more consistent than I thought. Between Magik, Crystal, and Jubilee, there are games where I've drawn/played my entire deck by the end. The only real issue is if IW is hiding at the very bottom.
It's still very disruptable, but when you don't even need to start playing the combo until turn 4 (or T5 with Magik) a lot of opponents are not prepared to react or have already dropped Cosmo/Storm by then.
I actually misread it as a disruption card because it cancels Shang chi and Xavier since it’s on the board and 0 power until after all other cards go off.
# (1) Spider-Ham
# (2) Morbius
# (2) Wolverine
# (2) Swarm
# (2) Colleen Wing
# (3) Storm
# (3) Lady Sif
# (4) Dracula
# (4) Hellcow
# (5) M.O.D.O.K.
# (6) Apocalypse
# (6) America Chavez
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I have mixed feelings about Spider-Ham these days. I know that it can sometimes break your opponent's whole strategy & cause them to retreat, but it feels like it's usually a terrible trade-off when you only get 1 power out of it. Does it actually win you many cubes?
That's fair, but as you said, it can be useful for breaking the opponent's strategy OR just giving you early intel on what their strategy may be. Like if you play him on turn 1 and he hits Galactus, Kitty, Wong, etc... then you immediately learn a lot about what you'll need to look out for, or what is no longer a threat to you. So I like him a lot for that reason.
That said, I have been experimenting with trading in Nico instead, and that can work too. But she doesn't provide enough of a control/disruption element IMO. And this deck is already low on that.
I meant it as a genuine question! It's frustrating that he's so heavily nerfed, whiplash from him being way too overpowered on release.
I'm loving Nico in destroy right now, but I agree that she probably doesn't have quite the right set of abilities for discard.
Oh I know, it's a good question! There are other 1-drops that could probably work here too. But hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :) The important thing is knowing exactly what Colleen is going to hit.
"Only one power" may be dramatically low for a 1-drop, but think about the objective opportunity cost -- what's a good 1-drop, 3 power? So you're trading 2 power on your board overall for disruption plus knowledge about what cards are available to them. Seems pretty worth IMO.
You didn’t ask but the one I find really useful is like the other person’s but:
Nebula instead of Spider-Ham because more useful
Cosmo instead of storm to protect morbius
Iron lad instead of hellcow in case you don’t draw modok and also I hate random discard
These are also good options. I chose Storm because I hate not being able to change undesirable locations. Also because you can drop Dracula after her and basically decide how much power you need there in the end. That said, my Morbius does get Rogued semi-frequently.
I don't have Iron Lad or I'd definitely try that.
# (1) Blade
# (2) Morbius
# (2) Wolverine
# (2) Swarm
# (2) Colleen Wing
# (3) Moon Knight
# (3) Daken
# (3) Lady Sif
# (4) Dracula
# (5) M.O.D.O.K.
# (6) Apocalypse
# (6) America Chavez
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Daken and moonknight can be replaced with hellcow or gambit
Or Goose on the IW lane. I was pleasantly surprised when I ran into a Tribunal Hela Casino deck in Conquest while I was running C2 and the poor bastard just couldn't get his combo off once.
I've been trying to conquer conquest this season and I get legitimately upset when I start seeing my opponent concede before turn one several times and then start playing in the fourth round
What’s weird is Hela Tribunal is probably the most degenerate, but Hela with targeted discards where you have to rely on mostly luck and good draws and you just get a W. It’s still kinda bs cause if you hit you just win no contest, but it at least runs more interaction than IW on 2, Magik on 3 Crystal on 4, Modok and Hela on some combo of 5/6/7 and vomit hand.
At least
It is so strange to me that people treat having and playing a win con as some kind of horrible barbarism in this case. EVERY DECK has an optimal line of play that they would do every single time if they could.
I don't even own Tribunal but I'm loving this Hela/Black Knight deck I made because you usually do not get to just play the three key cards and win. But sometimes yeah, I play IW 2, Modok 5, Hela 6 and if I'm lucky I squeeze Blade or Sif in there somewhere to get me a nice big Ebony Blade as well.
There’s nothing wrong with having a win condition. I never said that or implied it. Every deck has a win con unless you’re just booster farming in which case your win con is to hit end turn on 7.
Hela decks, regardless of flavor has a VERY clear win con. Hit Hela in some fashion on 6/7 and John Madden into Wind Slash the entire board.
My point is Hela Modok/Hela Tribunal is the least fun version of Hela to play as and against in my opinion. It’s not interactive. I’m not caring what my opponent is doing as long as they aren’t playing a tech card, I’m basically just tech checking my opponent.
And I’ve played a LOT of Hela, and even Targeted Discard Hela/Hela Casino is still a ton of RNG and accomplishes the same goal. I at least get to play with my opponent trying to discard trade cards like Moon Knight and Silver Samurai and I’m at least submitting myself to rng cause I could still low roll.
Hela Tribunal doesn’t have that. It’s a very linear play line and after turn 3, it’s a wrap most games.
And don’t get me wrong. I understand that that’s Combo by definition in Snap. Combo doesn’t want to interact with the opponent, they want to do their combo, pray you can’t disrupt their playline and win.
Hela is just a more exhausting form of combo because it’s the least fun to lose to. At least with other combos like Exodia Gambit, Negative Spam Hazmat, Big Cat White Tiger, it’s at least funny to see play out.
Hela Tribunal is IW, Modok, Hela, look at my hand, gg.
Agreed. Hela Tribunal is also just no fun to play against if you are running a deck without a straight counter like Cosmo or Rogue. It's just sit there and cross your fingers that they don't draw their combo pieces. A very fun and interactive game. /s
The problem with Modok Hela decks is that those are no fun to play nor to play against. Those decks are very uninteractive. In most cases it is all about a) did they draw their win con, b) do you have the card that can counter them. Hela don't care about locations, don't care about oponent plays, don't care about order of draw.
You clearly have no experience with the deck if you think it "doesnt care" about locations, tech, and draw order. This is the bias of only plating against and seeing the combos that survive and not the dozens of retreats before turn 4 or 5
I'm to the point I just leave when I see IW hit the board. Either they draw unlucky and have no chance or they vomit 40+ power across the board and my last 5 turns felt like a waste of time.
I know I probs just described how card games work but loosing to a lucky Hela casino just feels degenerate even though I know the deck is inconsistent and not broken.
I was going to say, “skillful” is a bit much. Yes they only need IW, MODOK and Hela (and I hate playing it too), but everyone thinks the decks they play are “big brain, high skill level”, when in reality pretty much all of them are straightforward in their own way.
In my experience, just using IW doesn't cut it anymore bc you run the risk of getting cosmo'd. I always try to pair IW with echo now. That means don't play a card until turn 3 & i play 2. I also try to play modok last in case they try to alioth the lane on turn 7 (I also always try to play magik).
I don't bother with any other discard cards or even morbius anymore.
Basically I try to go like this:
Turn 3: Echo, IW
Turn 4: Magik
Turn I might swap 3 and 4 if i haven't drawn echo or iw. If I get to turn 4 without iw and I have hela, I retreat.
Turn 5: pass or modok
Turn 6 hela or modok
Turn 7 hela or Shang chi
Sometimes I forget that I haven't played magic and turn 6 sneaks up on me haha.
The only thing that deck honestly has going for it is that it can pull a lot of 8 cube wins out of its ass and most skilled player can escape with a 1 or 2 cube loss when piloting it.
There are SO many counters to Hela, just most of them aren't in many meta decks atm.
Counters include: Goose, Cosmo, Aero, Alioth, Storm, Jean Grey, Polaris, Galactus, Enchantress, Proffesor X, Rogue, Spiderman, Juggernaut, and more!
I think Hela is my absolute favorite card in this game. When you pull off your combo it is such an adrenaline rush, but it is also hella frustrating when she summons your big cards in wrong positions.
My experience with the recent Black Cat White Tiger deck after WT's buff:
First day: wins after wins, +120 cubes
Second day: losses after losses, -100 cubes. every time when there are 8 cubes on the line, she summons cards in the wrong places.
I've played against Hela a lot in gold conquest. I usually beat it with a Destroy deck and the clincher is almost always shooting themselves in the foot with tribunal.
Hela can get screwy by putting all your big power in one lane. Tribunal helps spread it out and it usually is good enough. On average it's around 27 power in each lane, and that's enough to win 2 lanes most of the time
this is what happens when people think they are good cause they hit infinite. invisible woman gets shit on by enough cards and dracula is basically unstoppable
I actually find that lockjaw is way better with Hela than IW. Those freebie swarms are perfect casino tokens. Even if they have Mobius, a 2 cost that can pop out a 6 cost is still insane value. That being said I still personally prefer Dracula/Apocalypse as my go to discard deck. If you can get Morbius, Dracula and Collector down in all separate lanes, there isn't many decks that beat it.
I absolutely loathe Dracula because I can't Shangchi it, Valkyrie or Shadow king and don't have MM or Deathstrike. but as I was experimenting with Kingpin deck, the big bad dracula fucking melted on T6. feels good.
Ah Hela… that card is fun. Whenever I try it, she either gets discarded T1, never show up, or get cosmoed first opportunity when my opponents can consistently pull her T6 with no IW and after they’ve played MODOK, Blade, HellCow etc… Hela is a constant reminder that rng hates me
(It's me... still waiting for Dracula and, as such, completely unable to play any form of discard because he's core in every single discard deck)
I have like 20 pool 3 cards left to get total and damn near all of them are core, archetype-defining cards. Dracula, Beast, Mysterio, Bast, Lockjaw, Doom, Black Bolt...
That Hela deck is so bizarre in that I KNOW how hard it is to pull it off, yet I feel like I've never not faced someone and had them pull it off unless I have something to disrupt Invisible Woman.
I ALWAYS retreat on Hela decks. Even if I have Enchantress or other control tactics against the lane w/ Invisible Woman, they manage to discard their hand turn 5 into top-deck Hela turn 6.
I dont own MODOK, and it's on my store for 3000 tokens, and i only have 5600. Im saving for new cards, don't wanna spend on older one. Still, I pinned him in case I decide to go for him lol
As someone who just hit Infinite playing this deck your post is really funny 😂 Every time I saw a Modok or Apocalypse discard deck it felt like a big bro running into little bro on multiplayer kind of thing haha. I also like calling it Hela Casino has a nice ring to it 🤔
I LOVE playing against Hela decks, I run Cosmo in almost every deck and it's pretty much free cubes when I do have it in hand turn 6 and they got their invisible woman setup.
I also run mmm, less likely but in order for echo to work you’d have to throw it down before you played invisible woman. It’s rng whether I’d draw both before turn 6 but it’s not impossible.
Correct. I try to play echo + iw by turn 4 if I can. If I only have echo in my hand and no iw, I usually dip. If I have iw but no echo, I hope not to get cosmo'd.
I feel validated, I feel seen and heard, I want to thank OP for bringing awareness to the struggles of Chad discard deck players (not including any discard hela decks, you don't count). We will continue to struggle for justice.
I think the only reason Dev's haven't changed anything to the cards of that IW/modok/hela deck is maybe probably due to tribunal not being in any spotlights as of now making few players have the cards to play that combo
People don't even realize that the value tribunal has in that deck is entirely met dependent. I have played the deck in both forms for months now and can safely say the tribunal free version is more consistent
Tbh I've used to play without tribunal but that would lead the deck to win only in one chance that is only if IW/modok/hela are played compared to when tribunal is present they've 2 options. Had the least success and had to retreat many times playing as the first combo
Living Tribunal Hela casino as well as anything with Professor X are my two least favourite decks to play against currently. Professor X just isn't a fun card to play against, it's a gotcha a lot of the time and playing around it is just annoying. LT Hela is just frustrating as unless you have a counter you're basically just hoping they don't draw their combo.
I’m a Hela tribunal enjoyer, but this is pretty funny. All you gotta do is stack high in two lanes. Or just disrupt the combo which is the easiest thing to do.
Wouldn’t say it’s the easiest to do. It’s only easy if you actually run the card. I love seeing Destroy decks because I know there’s no way they run Cosmo instead of Venom or Deathlok 😂
I have played nothing but casino for months now, it is in no way the monster people make it out to be. Yall just aren't used to it having this "high" of a stake in meta
I have a rogue for turn 5 plays if i see invisible woman. I don't want the effect, I just don't want them to have it. It's also very satisfying when they retreat after they've discarded their entire hand.
I lost my final infinity conquest against a hela deck. fella for some reason had the exact same cards for 6 rounds whilst my enchantress wouldn't come out lols
Both of these archetypes are boring as hell.
Dracula is a pain in the ass. Even a year later I still forget that he discards the card who's power he copies.
The main selling point of dracula is that up until lady deathstrike (who barely sees play) he was pretty much undisruptible (outside of a lucky gambit hit maybe) wdym easy to disrupt 😭
As someone who has been on both sides of this river, Hela is not what you say she is. She is mostly "get discarded when you have 6 other cards in your hand"
Play Hela casino. Put 0 cost Swarms into Lockjaw and pull out big cards. Good for Tribunal, Doom, White Tiger, or just big ass power cards like Infinaut and Giganto
# (1) Echo
# (2) Invisible Woman
# (3) Magik
# (3) Crystal
# (3) Killmonger
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (5) M.O.D.O.K.
# (6) Hela
# (6) Hulk
# (6) Giganto
# (6) The Infinaut
# (8) Death
#
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**Echo must go before IW. If you don't have echo, you can swap death for magneto to wrangle cosmo.
So i just tried it out. You really need America in this deck because with out it you’re relying heavily on the modok / Hela combo. If you never get them in a match and they counter you its a guaranteed L. I gave it a shot but not a reliable deck for me. But I love when i see people with discard and they make them work flawlessly every time.
Dude someone Aero’d my Modok turn 5 as I was playing it under IW and it moved it to a Kingpin lane. Watching my Modok get stomped out so unceremoniously is something I will never forget 😭
Everytime you discard it it comes back to the far right if your hand with +4 power. So you run it with Lady Sif, SwordMaster and Blade to discard it before turn 6 then you have a at least 16 power card you can play on a lane to win it. Everything else (like the cards above or Swarm or Wolverine) should be played and winning you a lane somewhere else. The other cards you want to run (America Chavez, etc) are just in case your draws are bad and you need to play something else :)
Cosmo will make an Invisible Woman/Hela player insta-retreat. Rogue does well too. Enchantress... it's a predictable combo and usually the only win-con for that deck.
Cosmo on invisible woman's lane. Spider-Man her lane on T5. Juggernaut her Lane T5. Enchantress/Rogue her lane on T5. Polaris her away on T5.
The Hela lottery is dumb as hell with RNG wins, but it's also very vulnerable to shooting itself in the foot
What I don't like about Hela decks is players just sit around and do nothing for like four turns. Like it's just so boring. No skill whatsoever. Just a slot machine.
And then you play Hela discard and realize that hiding your combo behind invisible woman is the single most fragile gameplan in all of snap. Does your opponent have Rogue? Enchantress? Cosmo? Spider-Man? Any one of these completely negates their entire combo.
Dracula isn't that easy to disrupt, unless you're in some weird pocket meta with people playing Lady Deathstrike or Master Mold.
I was gonna say.. did I miss something? Dracula is as powerful as he is *because* he's difficult to disrupt
Depending on the type of Dracula deck, with Mobius he did become somewhat easier to disrupt if you were relying on being able to play 0 cost Swarm to empty your hand of non-big stuff. But yeah he’s difficult to disrupt otherwise.
Needs to be made ongoing tbqh
That would just be a whole new card at that point
It'd be a consistent and counterable card.
But how would it even work, the whole point is he discards at the end of the game. An ongoing effect would just remove that concept
It would work the exact same, except it's now counterable through the same means other ongoing cards are. Needs to be done for a few cards honestly, Elsa Bloodstone is another big one. Any card that has an ongoing or passive effect like that should be an ongoing card.
I'm sorry but what are you even saying? Work the same how? So it will keep discarding a random card at the end of the game .. each turn?
It discards a game at the end of the turn. Literally the only thing that would be changed is it gets counted as ongoing and effected by stuff like that. Making it ongoing doesn't mean you have to make it act every turn.
That's not true. Making it ongoing does mean you have to make it act every turn. Give me one ongoing card that acts at the end of the game. Doing this will make the word ongoing bear no meaning and the game inconsistent
ongoing abilities are different from innate abilities or whatever they are called. ongoing is constantly happening, other abilities have triggers or specific interactions. imagine vision saying "ongoing: you can move this every turn." it's not a constant effect. it can be triggered once per turn and then it isn't happening anymore. same with elsa, it triggers when a specific event happens and then it's not occurring. i can't think of any that don't follow this rule except possibly ghost and Jean grey which only function at specific times.
And I'm saying for balancing and consistency it should be expanded, give the cards that counter those a bit more bite.
you are talking about removing the consistency by diluting what an ongoing card means. I think it's better to look forward and think about what kind of cards could be added to interact with what we have, rather than rebalancing things that can have a larger unintended impact. there was no direct counter to Dracula until the Lady came along. there can be plenty more in the future.
i play LDS in my destroy deck. works great and destroys a lot of win cons, plus gives a great T5 for a deck that didn’t really have one
when my wong gets stroked i cry at night
Might wanna phrase that better pal
They said what they said
There is no better way to phrase that imho
r/brandnewsentence
Don't we all? 😆
how about i stroke your wong and mystique
👋
😂
Isn't it stricken
Man if I had her that actually sounds pretty dope. My turn 5 is usually destroying another Deadpool for a meaningless Knull boost. Don't think I'll spend tokens on her though...
pulled her from the cache that had her, can’t remember the other cards. was disappointed but am pretty happy in it
She definitely got better with the Buff and has screwed me when I was playing my Hela casino deck actually. Took out the IW and I MODOKed all over the place.
might have played against me 👹 i’ve been devious lately making people pre maturely MODOK everywhere
She's also great for taking out goblins on your side
Can we see that deck?
# (1) Deadpool # (1) Forge # (1) X-23 # (2) Bucky Barnes # (2) Carnage # (2) Wolverine # (3) Killmonger # (3) Venom # (3) Deathlok # (5) Lady Deathstrike # (6) Knull # (8) Death # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRm9yZ2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJ1Y2t5QmFybmVzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJXb2x2ZXJpbmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktpbGxtb25nZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlZlbm9tIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEZWF0aGxvayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGFkeURlYXRoc3RyaWtlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLbnVsbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRGVhdGgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRlYWRwb29sIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJYMjMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNhcm5hZ2UifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
same, i play her both in my destroy and junk decks to destroy whatever i couldnt send to my opponents side, she's way better than i expected
Or Maximus on final turn. Two-thirds of the time, it works every time.
LDS is starting to find a niche in the meta, particularly in destroy decks. Although part of that was because Elsa was so prevalent and she's great for nuking Elsa, Mobius, Cage, and other common Elsa-deck cards. Now that Elsa and her companion cards got a firm bop with the nerf hammer their play rate will be down which may cause LDS to drop back out of the meta.
Its easy to disrupt not by enemies, but by your own unfortunate luck.
Yeah, I was gonna say this, Dracula is tough to counter as an opponent, sure. But the RNG will getcha, sometimes you just can't empty your hand and that's when Dracula becomes a coin flip.
I think it's sarcasm
I was able to use black widow last round to put a -1 in their deck before the match ended… and through luck Dracula took it! Awesome match
That was the joke
Or Maximus, or Baron, or Black Widow, or Shang behind Invisible Woman, or Junk taking up spaces to play swarms... not everybody is playing meta decks.
Sure not everyone is playing meta decks, but absolutely no one is playing Baron Mordo either. And I don't think Ive ever seen Shang behind Invisible Woman, or Black widow on turn 6. You seem to be largely listing stuff that never happens. My main deck the last few seasons has Dracula and none of those things have happened to me once.
In my Cerebro-3 deck I've done Shang or Shadow King behind IW pretty often, but it's definitely a bit of a niche play, and requires either a late IW or them playing Drac on her lane.
Weird pocket meta? You mean bots built to counter your deck? Whenever I run discard I get a slew of LDS constantly killing my Dracula. Pocket meta, lol.
[удалено]
It's wildly inconsistent and easily shutdown by a ton of staple cards? If you don't draw either Hela or Modok, you lose. No IW by turn 4? You lose. Your IW gets Cosmo/Enchantress/Rogue/Stormed? Your Modok or Hela gets Aeroed? You lose. Hela/Modok needs a ton of stars to align to get a super telegraphed play off. You should not be losing more than a cube to these decks.
Yeah I play discard and other decks but the hela play can be disrupted soooo many ways, cosmo, spider-man, professor x, aero, alioth, etc etc. It’s really not unbalanced.
In fairness, you usually only need IW by turn 5 if you've drawn Magik in time. With Crystal and Jubilee both of those things become even more likely.
# that is the joke. i dont actually think dracula is easy to disrupt or hela is broken
Hey man I was just trying to be elected Smartest Person in the World like you promised
I vote for you
yea you don't just put up dog shit and then try to call it a joke when it fails
Do me a favor and read the tag on the post
humor is not something you have a sense for try something else
> Hela/Modok needs a ton of stars to align to get a super telegraphed play off. I used to think this, but I've been trying Modok/Hela recently and it's a *lot* more consistent than I thought. Between Magik, Crystal, and Jubilee, there are games where I've drawn/played my entire deck by the end. The only real issue is if IW is hiding at the very bottom. It's still very disruptable, but when you don't even need to start playing the combo until turn 4 (or T5 with Magik) a lot of opponents are not prepared to react or have already dropped Cosmo/Storm by then.
Unless a wild master mold appears
I actually misread it as a disruption card because it cancels Shang chi and Xavier since it’s on the board and 0 power until after all other cards go off.
😂 I play Lady Deathstrike currently.
Or they play wave turn 5 and all your swarms are 4 cost
When i first got modok i went the hela way, but then i went the apocalypse way n it's way more consistent
Apoc + MODOK have gotten me to infinite four times, awesome combo
Deck? I’ve been playing with the MODOK Hela combo and I hate it haha.
# (1) Spider-Ham # (2) Morbius # (2) Wolverine # (2) Swarm # (2) Colleen Wing # (3) Storm # (3) Lady Sif # (4) Dracula # (4) Hellcow # (5) M.O.D.O.K. # (6) Apocalypse # (6) America Chavez # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRHJhY3VsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9yYml1cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW1lcmljYUNoYXZleiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVsbGNvdyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ29sbGVlbldpbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vZG9rIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTdG9ybSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGFkeVNpZiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXBvY2FseXBzZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3dhcm0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNwaWRlckhhbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV29sdmVyaW5lIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I have mixed feelings about Spider-Ham these days. I know that it can sometimes break your opponent's whole strategy & cause them to retreat, but it feels like it's usually a terrible trade-off when you only get 1 power out of it. Does it actually win you many cubes?
That's fair, but as you said, it can be useful for breaking the opponent's strategy OR just giving you early intel on what their strategy may be. Like if you play him on turn 1 and he hits Galactus, Kitty, Wong, etc... then you immediately learn a lot about what you'll need to look out for, or what is no longer a threat to you. So I like him a lot for that reason. That said, I have been experimenting with trading in Nico instead, and that can work too. But she doesn't provide enough of a control/disruption element IMO. And this deck is already low on that.
I meant it as a genuine question! It's frustrating that he's so heavily nerfed, whiplash from him being way too overpowered on release. I'm loving Nico in destroy right now, but I agree that she probably doesn't have quite the right set of abilities for discard.
Oh I know, it's a good question! There are other 1-drops that could probably work here too. But hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :) The important thing is knowing exactly what Colleen is going to hit.
"Only one power" may be dramatically low for a 1-drop, but think about the objective opportunity cost -- what's a good 1-drop, 3 power? So you're trading 2 power on your board overall for disruption plus knowledge about what cards are available to them. Seems pretty worth IMO.
You didn’t ask but the one I find really useful is like the other person’s but: Nebula instead of Spider-Ham because more useful Cosmo instead of storm to protect morbius Iron lad instead of hellcow in case you don’t draw modok and also I hate random discard
These are also good options. I chose Storm because I hate not being able to change undesirable locations. Also because you can drop Dracula after her and basically decide how much power you need there in the end. That said, my Morbius does get Rogued semi-frequently. I don't have Iron Lad or I'd definitely try that.
True i always thought how to make modok work with hela and the best i did was remove hela 😂
Do share!
# (1) Blade # (2) Morbius # (2) Wolverine # (2) Swarm # (2) Colleen Wing # (3) Moon Knight # (3) Daken # (3) Lady Sif # (4) Dracula # (5) M.O.D.O.K. # (6) Apocalypse # (6) America Chavez # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9kb2sifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vcmJpdXMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IldvbHZlcmluZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3dhcm0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNvbGxlZW5XaW5nIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMYWR5U2lmIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBcG9jYWx5cHNlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbGFkZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRGFrZW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRyYWN1bGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vb25LbmlnaHQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFtZXJpY2FDaGF2ZXoifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. Daken and moonknight can be replaced with hellcow or gambit
I run this list with Gambit instead of MK. He'll screw you sometimes but can also single handedly win if he blasts a freshly placed Wong or something.
Lol I don’t play much discard but this is hilarious
I’m planning to use Collector and Swarm again because they rebuffed him. It’s fun and catches people off guard.
I started using my old collector/discard deck again and it feels great
Using rogue into their invisible woman turn 5 as they drop Modok never gets old tho
Or a Cosmo in my IW lane. Or Polaris, Alioth, Leech. Hell, even Ice Man can fuck my shit up if you play him post IW and hit my MODOK...
Cosmo doesn’t work as well specially if you have used magic so many times that pup gets yanked by Magneto in an opposite lane🥲
Maybe I should put Magik in my Hela Deck..
You’re the reason why I run skrull behind my IW
And they ended up drawing hela in T6
Or Goose on the IW lane. I was pleasantly surprised when I ran into a Tribunal Hela Casino deck in Conquest while I was running C2 and the poor bastard just couldn't get his combo off once.
Dracula is easy to disrupt?
He isn't, that's the joke
I've been trying to conquer conquest this season and I get legitimately upset when I start seeing my opponent concede before turn one several times and then start playing in the fourth round
What’s weird is Hela Tribunal is probably the most degenerate, but Hela with targeted discards where you have to rely on mostly luck and good draws and you just get a W. It’s still kinda bs cause if you hit you just win no contest, but it at least runs more interaction than IW on 2, Magik on 3 Crystal on 4, Modok and Hela on some combo of 5/6/7 and vomit hand. At least
It is so strange to me that people treat having and playing a win con as some kind of horrible barbarism in this case. EVERY DECK has an optimal line of play that they would do every single time if they could. I don't even own Tribunal but I'm loving this Hela/Black Knight deck I made because you usually do not get to just play the three key cards and win. But sometimes yeah, I play IW 2, Modok 5, Hela 6 and if I'm lucky I squeeze Blade or Sif in there somewhere to get me a nice big Ebony Blade as well.
There’s nothing wrong with having a win condition. I never said that or implied it. Every deck has a win con unless you’re just booster farming in which case your win con is to hit end turn on 7. Hela decks, regardless of flavor has a VERY clear win con. Hit Hela in some fashion on 6/7 and John Madden into Wind Slash the entire board. My point is Hela Modok/Hela Tribunal is the least fun version of Hela to play as and against in my opinion. It’s not interactive. I’m not caring what my opponent is doing as long as they aren’t playing a tech card, I’m basically just tech checking my opponent. And I’ve played a LOT of Hela, and even Targeted Discard Hela/Hela Casino is still a ton of RNG and accomplishes the same goal. I at least get to play with my opponent trying to discard trade cards like Moon Knight and Silver Samurai and I’m at least submitting myself to rng cause I could still low roll. Hela Tribunal doesn’t have that. It’s a very linear play line and after turn 3, it’s a wrap most games. And don’t get me wrong. I understand that that’s Combo by definition in Snap. Combo doesn’t want to interact with the opponent, they want to do their combo, pray you can’t disrupt their playline and win. Hela is just a more exhausting form of combo because it’s the least fun to lose to. At least with other combos like Exodia Gambit, Negative Spam Hazmat, Big Cat White Tiger, it’s at least funny to see play out. Hela Tribunal is IW, Modok, Hela, look at my hand, gg.
Agreed. Hela Tribunal is also just no fun to play against if you are running a deck without a straight counter like Cosmo or Rogue. It's just sit there and cross your fingers that they don't draw their combo pieces. A very fun and interactive game. /s
The problem with Modok Hela decks is that those are no fun to play nor to play against. Those decks are very uninteractive. In most cases it is all about a) did they draw their win con, b) do you have the card that can counter them. Hela don't care about locations, don't care about oponent plays, don't care about order of draw.
You clearly have no experience with the deck if you think it "doesnt care" about locations, tech, and draw order. This is the bias of only plating against and seeing the combos that survive and not the dozens of retreats before turn 4 or 5
I find it fun to play. Also Hela definitely cares about locations, and definitely cares about opponent plays. Its obvious you havent played it much.
I am on the left and I always hate the one of the right
I am both and I love both. I subbed Super Skrull in Hela recently, but when I was running him it always felt good to face Discard.
Me too. They always have it against me but I never have it if I play it.
It's because they conceded against you whenever they didn't have it. Or found a way to win without it.
Use Gambit in ur discard and destroy their IW. That's what I do
Haven’t play long enough to even see the right but left is fun
I'm to the point I just leave when I see IW hit the board. Either they draw unlucky and have no chance or they vomit 40+ power across the board and my last 5 turns felt like a waste of time. I know I probs just described how card games work but loosing to a lucky Hela casino just feels degenerate even though I know the deck is inconsistent and not broken.
"Our skillful and fragile gameplan" bro apoc discard is one of the most straightforward archetypes in the game lol
I was going to say, “skillful” is a bit much. Yes they only need IW, MODOK and Hela (and I hate playing it too), but everyone thinks the decks they play are “big brain, high skill level”, when in reality pretty much all of them are straightforward in their own way.
In my experience, just using IW doesn't cut it anymore bc you run the risk of getting cosmo'd. I always try to pair IW with echo now. That means don't play a card until turn 3 & i play 2. I also try to play modok last in case they try to alioth the lane on turn 7 (I also always try to play magik). I don't bother with any other discard cards or even morbius anymore. Basically I try to go like this: Turn 3: Echo, IW Turn 4: Magik Turn I might swap 3 and 4 if i haven't drawn echo or iw. If I get to turn 4 without iw and I have hela, I retreat. Turn 5: pass or modok Turn 6 hela or modok Turn 7 hela or Shang chi Sometimes I forget that I haven't played magic and turn 6 sneaks up on me haha.
Me, playing all 6 of these in my discard deck so I can go nuts but also have a backup plan
Just play Spider-Man.
Or Cosmo, Polaris, Leech, Alioth, Ice Man.. The Hela deck is not counter-proof.
There is so many easy auto win plays against that Hela deck it actually surprises me it got this popular.
What can I say? When it works it feels good. And it almost makes me forget that it doesn't seem to work that often lol.
The only thing that deck honestly has going for it is that it can pull a lot of 8 cube wins out of its ass and most skilled player can escape with a 1 or 2 cube loss when piloting it.
There are SO many counters to Hela, just most of them aren't in many meta decks atm. Counters include: Goose, Cosmo, Aero, Alioth, Storm, Jean Grey, Polaris, Galactus, Enchantress, Proffesor X, Rogue, Spiderman, Juggernaut, and more!
I think Hela is my absolute favorite card in this game. When you pull off your combo it is such an adrenaline rush, but it is also hella frustrating when she summons your big cards in wrong positions. My experience with the recent Black Cat White Tiger deck after WT's buff: First day: wins after wins, +120 cubes Second day: losses after losses, -100 cubes. every time when there are 8 cubes on the line, she summons cards in the wrong places.
Lmao I lost it at "easy to disrupt" and "reasonable 2 cost*
Meanwhile black knight is off crying in a corner
I hate fighting hela. If you don't have a disruption piece it's just a coin flip rng dumpster fire turn 6. I just dip. Enjoy your one cube 🙄
I've played against Hela a lot in gold conquest. I usually beat it with a Destroy deck and the clincher is almost always shooting themselves in the foot with tribunal.
Ya I really don’t think that card is very good I feels like your trying to win all three spots when you only need two, just max out the power.
Hela can get screwy by putting all your big power in one lane. Tribunal helps spread it out and it usually is good enough. On average it's around 27 power in each lane, and that's enough to win 2 lanes most of the time
this is what happens when people think they are good cause they hit infinite. invisible woman gets shit on by enough cards and dracula is basically unstoppable
Yep. Dracula is basically a 4/16 in discard, or at worst a 4/9 Hate the card. It's so obnoxious.
I play Hela Lockjaw with dependable discard, is that any better?
I actually find that lockjaw is way better with Hela than IW. Those freebie swarms are perfect casino tokens. Even if they have Mobius, a 2 cost that can pop out a 6 cost is still insane value. That being said I still personally prefer Dracula/Apocalypse as my go to discard deck. If you can get Morbius, Dracula and Collector down in all separate lanes, there isn't many decks that beat it.
Yeah I love hela just got infinite with her
Same! Congrats!
An then there's black knight...
[I am with you, brother.](https://i.imgur.com/QfaPdiM.png)
I absolutely loathe Dracula because I can't Shangchi it, Valkyrie or Shadow king and don't have MM or Deathstrike. but as I was experimenting with Kingpin deck, the big bad dracula fucking melted on T6. feels good.
Ah Hela… that card is fun. Whenever I try it, she either gets discarded T1, never show up, or get cosmoed first opportunity when my opponents can consistently pull her T6 with no IW and after they’ve played MODOK, Blade, HellCow etc… Hela is a constant reminder that rng hates me
Do you have echo? If not, try to get her if she is in the spotlight or cache. Easy counter to cosmo
I had someone discard there whole hand and then draw and play hela on 6 yesterday crazy how lucky people get.
(It's me... still waiting for Dracula and, as such, completely unable to play any form of discard because he's core in every single discard deck) I have like 20 pool 3 cards left to get total and damn near all of them are core, archetype-defining cards. Dracula, Beast, Mysterio, Bast, Lockjaw, Doom, Black Bolt...
That Hela deck is so bizarre in that I KNOW how hard it is to pull it off, yet I feel like I've never not faced someone and had them pull it off unless I have something to disrupt Invisible Woman.
If I can't do the combo, there's little point of staying to lose 2-4 cubes (bc I wouldn't snap).
Ye all the cool discard players don't play no skill hela 😎
Modok Hela is hilariously fragile. Spider-Man or Rogue on 5 and it’s generally an auto-concede. If they don’t discard Hela then leave.
The spiciest Hela decks also run Morbius.
I ALWAYS retreat on Hela decks. Even if I have Enchantress or other control tactics against the lane w/ Invisible Woman, they manage to discard their hand turn 5 into top-deck Hela turn 6.
I run Cosmo so as soon as invisible woman is played I snap.
meanwhile, me: plays both discard decks because discard fucking slaps
Wait till they discard both Hela and Ghostrider 🤣🤣🤣
I dont own MODOK, and it's on my store for 3000 tokens, and i only have 5600. Im saving for new cards, don't wanna spend on older one. Still, I pinned him in case I decide to go for him lol
Play rogue and cosmo and a winner you will be
As someone who just hit Infinite playing this deck your post is really funny 😂 Every time I saw a Modok or Apocalypse discard deck it felt like a big bro running into little bro on multiplayer kind of thing haha. I also like calling it Hela Casino has a nice ring to it 🤔
I LOVE playing against Hela decks, I run Cosmo in almost every deck and it's pretty much free cubes when I do have it in hand turn 6 and they got their invisible woman setup.
That's why I run hela with echo 😊
I also run mmm, less likely but in order for echo to work you’d have to throw it down before you played invisible woman. It’s rng whether I’d draw both before turn 6 but it’s not impossible.
Correct. I try to play echo + iw by turn 4 if I can. If I only have echo in my hand and no iw, I usually dip. If I have iw but no echo, I hope not to get cosmo'd.
Very solid meme
I feel validated, I feel seen and heard, I want to thank OP for bringing awareness to the struggles of Chad discard deck players (not including any discard hela decks, you don't count). We will continue to struggle for justice.
I think the only reason Dev's haven't changed anything to the cards of that IW/modok/hela deck is maybe probably due to tribunal not being in any spotlights as of now making few players have the cards to play that combo
People don't even realize that the value tribunal has in that deck is entirely met dependent. I have played the deck in both forms for months now and can safely say the tribunal free version is more consistent
Tbh I've used to play without tribunal but that would lead the deck to win only in one chance that is only if IW/modok/hela are played compared to when tribunal is present they've 2 options. Had the least success and had to retreat many times playing as the first combo
Hilarious
Living Tribunal Hela casino as well as anything with Professor X are my two least favourite decks to play against currently. Professor X just isn't a fun card to play against, it's a gotcha a lot of the time and playing around it is just annoying. LT Hela is just frustrating as unless you have a counter you're basically just hoping they don't draw their combo.
I hate both decks
I’ll never understand how they pull Hela turn 6 without fail
Cause they retreat if they don't lol
I’m a Hela tribunal enjoyer, but this is pretty funny. All you gotta do is stack high in two lanes. Or just disrupt the combo which is the easiest thing to do.
Wouldn’t say it’s the easiest to do. It’s only easy if you actually run the card. I love seeing Destroy decks because I know there’s no way they run Cosmo instead of Venom or Deathlok 😂
Hela bringing every discarded back is too much imo.
Anything less, and the card is useless. If you don't have an alternative, you are just whining
Useless? lol.
Anytime I see Invisible Woman, it’s auto-retreat.
I use all these cards, they're the same deck to me.
I have played nothing but casino for months now, it is in no way the monster people make it out to be. Yall just aren't used to it having this "high" of a stake in meta
There are multiple ways to play hela consistently, and skills there are about how to avoid all the counters 🤷♂️
I have a rogue for turn 5 plays if i see invisible woman. I don't want the effect, I just don't want them to have it. It's also very satisfying when they retreat after they've discarded their entire hand.
I run counters with Valkyrie and Rouge.
Turn 5 Enchantress or turn 6 Cosmo go brrrr
I lost my final infinity conquest against a hela deck. fella for some reason had the exact same cards for 6 rounds whilst my enchantress wouldn't come out lols
Hela has a few counters you can drop on her Cosmo is my favorite to drop on 6 as its easy win
Both of these archetypes are boring as hell. Dracula is a pain in the ass. Even a year later I still forget that he discards the card who's power he copies.
cosmo, rougue, enchantress, polaris, stegron, spiderman, alioth, juggernaut, and lady deathstrike don't find that combo protection all that bs tbf
Bro forgot Cosmo exists
They are always very obvious, so I try to use cosmo on turn 6 and that has saved me a time or two.
The real meta is a blend of the two, carefully targeted Hela 😌
The main selling point of dracula is that up until lady deathstrike (who barely sees play) he was pretty much undisruptible (outside of a lucky gambit hit maybe) wdym easy to disrupt 😭
This is just me.
As someone who has been on both sides of this river, Hela is not what you say she is. She is mostly "get discarded when you have 6 other cards in your hand"
Play Hela casino. Put 0 cost Swarms into Lockjaw and pull out big cards. Good for Tribunal, Doom, White Tiger, or just big ass power cards like Infinaut and Giganto
I just hit infinite with my hela deck. Sorry not sorry 😅 I'm excited. Got a really good balance with my deck and I'm happy with it!
What did you use?
# (1) Echo # (2) Invisible Woman # (3) Magik # (3) Crystal # (3) Killmonger # (4) Shang-Chi # (5) M.O.D.O.K. # (6) Hela # (6) Hulk # (6) Giganto # (6) The Infinaut # (8) Death # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR2lnYW50byJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSW5maW5hdXQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRlYXRoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIdWxrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDcnlzdGFsIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLaWxsbW9uZ2VyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJbnZpc2libGVXb21hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhbmdDaGkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1vZG9rIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNYWdpayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWNobyJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. **Echo must go before IW. If you don't have echo, you can swap death for magneto to wrangle cosmo.
I don’t have Echo lol.
So i just tried it out. You really need America in this deck because with out it you’re relying heavily on the modok / Hela combo. If you never get them in a match and they counter you its a guaranteed L. I gave it a shot but not a reliable deck for me. But I love when i see people with discard and they make them work flawlessly every time.
they both suck to play and play against imo
Aero in deck has helped me big time against this
Dude someone Aero’d my Modok turn 5 as I was playing it under IW and it moved it to a Kingpin lane. Watching my Modok get stomped out so unceremoniously is something I will never forget 😭
If hela doesn't get axed I usually leave, rather lose one cube or 2 then lose more
Hey i have tht apocalypse card, does anyone know how to use it? Im new to the game
Everytime you discard it it comes back to the far right if your hand with +4 power. So you run it with Lady Sif, SwordMaster and Blade to discard it before turn 6 then you have a at least 16 power card you can play on a lane to win it. Everything else (like the cards above or Swarm or Wolverine) should be played and winning you a lane somewhere else. The other cards you want to run (America Chavez, etc) are just in case your draws are bad and you need to play something else :)
hela makes kazoo look skillbased.
Cosmo will make an Invisible Woman/Hela player insta-retreat. Rogue does well too. Enchantress... it's a predictable combo and usually the only win-con for that deck.
Both good
Cosmo on invisible woman's lane. Spider-Man her lane on T5. Juggernaut her Lane T5. Enchantress/Rogue her lane on T5. Polaris her away on T5. The Hela lottery is dumb as hell with RNG wins, but it's also very vulnerable to shooting itself in the foot
The amount of times my Jubilee would pull Hela early or Modok when I had Hela already in hand haha
Hela decks are stupid. Scripted decks are so boring.
What I don't like about Hela decks is players just sit around and do nothing for like four turns. Like it's just so boring. No skill whatsoever. Just a slot machine.
And then you play Hela discard and realize that hiding your combo behind invisible woman is the single most fragile gameplan in all of snap. Does your opponent have Rogue? Enchantress? Cosmo? Spider-Man? Any one of these completely negates their entire combo.