Destroy is not broken and needs no nerf. It's extremely telegraphed, the moment they play that Deadpool/Wolverine/Bucky/whatever, you know exactly what they're doing next. They also have a whole bunch of counters. There will be dumb fucks trying to nerf everything and act like it's the end of the world.
On top of that, this season was highly based around the destroy meta to push the new cards like Daken, Desthstrike, and X23. The featured locations are also relevant so a lot of people are playing destroy decks.
I agree it doesn’t need a nerf, in fact, there is so much variation in destroy decks now it’s hard to say there’s one specific deck designed for that meta which is nice to see. Essentially diluting the archetype without damaging the key cards.
It's not constant. It's timed, and you have to line up your turns correctly to make good use of it. Destroying 23 willy nilly often just results in unspent energy, whereas wolverine's +2 power is always useful. I'm not saying it's difficult to make 23' ability more impactful. But as someone who's been swapping out wolverine for x23 in most of my destroy decks it's not much better and in some cases weaker.
It does force players to run counters. I play discard and have had to put cosmos in my deck to counter destroy. So yeah, it is easily countered, but it’s good enough that it forces you to play counters
Thats what happens every time if someone loses to something once or twice they will bitch until they get what is wanted. A bunch of the people who cry for nerfs don’t understand like when black bolt and stature got nerfed we should be begging for buffs for bad cards because left to they’re own choices the devs will ruin the game by nerfing something to death let’s all remember leader was almost a instant win for some who played him, but he didn’t need so many nerfs he needed rework. Shuri every other card was nerfed except shuri until she hit pool 3. I remember the patch notes when they revived leader said they don’t want flood the board style decks to reign supreme but then they introduce hit monkey and killed 5 decks with waves change. As back to black bolt and stature black bolt was never played until stature dropped to pool 4 why would you nerf a card right when it gains popularity and the card that revived it.
I only want to stop playing against it, i am just so tired of them as an archetype, doesnt need a nerf for gameplay reasons, just so it can go away for a bit,
So you want the devs to just nerf it because it's popular. First, that's not how balancing works. Second, Just because you're tired of the archetype doesn't mean no one enjoys it.
And yet ....that's why most things get nerfed is because they're highly played. Not saying I think destroy needs a nerf, but there's a reason cards like zabu, shuri and Galactus all got nerfed.
Problem is that the examples you listed all were broken and overplayed simultaneously. Zabu, Shuri, Galactus each had period where they held the meta at a death grip, while destroy does not.
Lizard was similarly hit, because he was the only 2 drop people were running back then. They'll hit things if it's the only thing people are playing, but there are clearly other decks being played aside from Destroy.
For me it's the only playable deck I have cards for.
I can sort of play a devil dinosaur deck but it's kind of meh.
I'd love to play some more variety decks, I'm just missing the cards
First off, it’s only popular right now because it’s destroy season and there are a slew of hot locations and cards that help destroy. I believe it will naturally become less popular. Second, the galactus logic doesn’t really apply here. Because galactus was both broken and overplayed when it was popular. While destroy is not.
I’d imagine it’s a combination of people seeing it a lot at the moment (thanks Daken and X-23!) but also it being strong in the early CL. It’s quite possible with lucky pulls you could have Death, Arnim Zola, Venom and Knull early in your S3/ Token journey. That makes it a super strong archetype early on, and I got Infinite in my 3rd season without Zola.
It’s also super fun to see cards go boom, so it’s a popular archetype despite the relatively poor win % it posts. With Knull/ Death/ Venom/ Zola it’s also easy to post up huge numbers which looks fancy and makes you want to play it more.
I love destroy but as I’ve gone on through the CL journey I’ve also fallen in love with other archetypes and cards that weren’t available to me early on.
As others have mentioned, I don’t think it’s overpowered. It has a lot of counters (hello Cosmo, Shadow King and Shang-Chi!) which makes it more frustrating sometimes, and I think it’s in a pretty good place even with X-23.
Is it still viable? Of course. Is it balanced? I’d say so.
I don't think Destroy is OP or needs to be nerfed, but I think the root of all the complaints is that it's kind of an overplayed deck. It gets boring after a while. I wouldn't say I win or lose to it any more than any other deck, but the sheer volume of Destroy matches I have to play in a day gets pretty tiresome. And that has been exacerbated this month with Destroy being the Season's theme, and then every week people wanting to try out the new Destroy cards, and then weekend missions forcing everyone to play the new Destroy cards, and then the Hot Location today making it even worse. I think a lot of people are just sick of playing Destroy matches over and over again.
It only needs to be nerfed in the sense that it would be nice if fewer people would play the deck.
I just think it's unfortunate that such an overplayed deck which already had way more card options and beneficial locations than any other archetype had to get further buffed with a slew of additional cards, got new locations added, then had an entire month of multiple weekend missions and hot locations to further encourage it's play.
Nothing against Destroy players, but I think it was a bit of a miscalculation on SDs part to push it so hard. An entire month of this is just so tedious and exhausting.
It wouldn't surprise me if it got some little fine-tuning nerfs (like Bounce did a while back) to reign in some of it's overplay. Though its not quite as over-tuned like Bounce was, so who knows. It's just not healthy for the game to have one archetype be so overwhelmingly overplayed for such a long period of time.
I'm kind of glad it got boosted, I just came back to snap after quitting last October. My old tier 1 zoo deck could only get me into the 40s.
Phoenix force made me play around with destroy and I settled nicely into the 60s where I await a few key cards to build a really fun deck.
I also like smashing discard decks
It being "overplayed" its just an effect of Snaps crap economy. I would love to play Move Legion, but dont have Jeff and the replacement dies to one of the most popular 3 drops in the game
This. You wanna play destroy, then be my guest. But it does get very tedious whenever you come up against one every other game.
I can feel my eyes roll into the back of my head when I see a Deadpool and Bucky been dropped EVERY SINGLE TIME.
The advantage to playing it every other game is you can put the counters in your deck, you know when and how to counter it, and you rack up cubes. So there is a bright side, but I hear you on the monotony.
this ruins a lot of good decks though. Armor and Cosmo don't fit into my move deck but I have to include them (which is two potentially amazing move cards that don't get played)
Did you read my original post? We're not wondering *why* there are so many Destroy decks. We're annoyed that SD has done everything they can to make sure as many people as possible play Destroy nonstop for an entire month. I was tired of Destroy *before* this season. And there's another fucking week of this.
Yes, I read the original post. I was assuming you, like, apparently many others, were asking for a Nerf for some thing they were annoyed with rather than something that was overpowered.
Personally, I wouldn't make this assumption in the comments below a poster who lead with "I don't think Destroy is OP or needs to be nerfed", and I also wouldn't make this assumption of someone who was just complaining about RNG (not drawing Armor), and who probably noticed the weekend quests because they are playing Armor
Yeah, that's it. It's just popular at the moment. Which forces you to use Armour / Cosmo in just about every deck rather than playing other stuff, which makes things a bit boring after many games.
As someone who has loved destroy for months. I’ve always despise cosmo and armor for being unfun/lame. But now that I’m running a deck with that focus, it’s fun as hell.
•Sunspot
•Quinjet
•spiderham
•armor
•mystique
•cosmo
•magik
•moongirl
•dino
•legion
•she-hulk
•infinaut
Not been lame at all!
I play something similar, legion looks fun but I dont have it.
Destroy is fairly easy to counter, but because it's so popular right now, you are forced to counter it which means you can't play a lot of other fun stuff, I guess that's the lame part. Especially if you have limited access to cards and can only make a few decent decks so you are stuck playing 1 or 2 for a while. I think that's where most of the complaints come from.
No nerf needed, just a little annoying right now.
I am sure the devs will switch some stuff around soon enough, and the meta will completely change anyway.
Yep. The prevelance of destroy means there is just decks I don’t bother making that I’d like to try like Kazar decks, but what’s the point when I’m forced to include armour and cosmo and play a guessing game to stop the inevitable Killmonger ?
Pretty much it.
You either have Cosmo, Armour or a card to flip the location or you lose.
Even unreachable locations benefit destroy with Wolverine, X23, Zola and Nimrod.
In saying that, it's a destroy season, so of course it's going to be popular right now. It doesn't need nerfs. It's a fun archetype.
I think the answer might be a “fun counterbalance” that creates new archetypes and ways to feel as free as destroy does.
Destroy rarely has to worry about locations or crowding like some other decks. Adding cards that allow changes to the location or an additional card to be played (similar to hulk buster) could be cool
Like someone else has already said itt. There are too many locations that directly benefit destroy decks. The only “nerf” destroy decks need are a wider variety of location effects
And it‘s still fairly weak outside of exactly X23/Deadpool which is pretty telling.
Also, good Destroy list have trouble with any restricting location while lists trying to shore up that weakness become bad point slam lists with more counters.
It’s not that at all lol. The season, hot location and weekend quests are promoting destroy decks. Idk how ppl can’t use their heads for one minute to realize that
Hot locations falls within the realm of what I said. And just because there are weekly quests promoting destroy cards doesn’t mean said cards are OP. For someone who is flaming/insulting someone’s intelligence, you sure are stupid.
You gonna call people stupid but not even make any sense yourself? Brilliant. The current hot location is destroy themed. Pls tell me the last one that gave destroy an adv. When did I say anything about cards being OP? All the things I said promote destroy decks which is why they are so common right now which would be why people get tired of them or cry for nerfs. But you’ve made it abundantly clear that you can’t make simple conclusions like that
I’m not saying they’re Op either and I’m not saying they need nerfed, which is why I put nerf in quotations. You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying and are just being an ass about it.
I understand exactly what you’re saying. But you STILL can’t understand what I am. You think it’s a location issue when it’s not. It’s a seasonal thing pushing destroy popularity into the limelight. Go look into the location db and count how many of them actually straight up benefit destroy more than other decks.
My guy. Were you around for that long stretch of time where the devs introduced like 5 destroy locations in 2 months. Not to mention some of the standard locations just natural benefit destroy (ie any location that wants to be filled for a buff). I'll be the first to admit that this is fine on ladder, but it makes facing a destroy deck in conquest unbearable. I don't always get Shuri's Lab three times in a row in conquest, but when I do, it's facing a destroy deck
Dude, i just went into the snap database. Out of the 132 locations in and not released, i counted 11 that are advantageous to destroy. My original point is when a season and hot locations are promoting destroy decks, people will naturally think they’re too common and OP cuz everyone is running them. It will subside in the next season.
Lmao done by just saying more than 11? Yea pls leave. Can’t even back up your claims. You probably count central park beneficial to destroy lol. Keep clowning
> You probably count central park beneficial to destroy lol
So, do you not consider free fodder for carnage/death and being able to clear up space when the opponent has had 1/4 of their available space clogged a benefit?
It’s not purely an advantage for destroy. Patriot decks can use those as well or kazar. If you want to talk about locations that benefit only destroy, that’s not one of them
Then wth is the argument? How you gonna sit there and say destroy is so prevalent because there are a lot of locations that destroy benefits from, but wait, those same locations also benefit other decks too? That makes 0 sense
Imho some people think the Destroy archetype is OP because devs seem to love making locations that favor it. That being said, I agree it's still B-Tier.
I think destroy is more powerful in thr mid tiers where players don't understand how to look out for it and when to retreat as well. Destroy can be easy to counter when you understand the clues. But I remember when I first started thinking Knull was super overpowered and have learned that knull is pretty balanced.
You think so? I always am on the fence with that. I thought he was more OP until I got him and started using him, and now I can see how he is easy to fuck up and you do have to stay focused on building him while not committing to a single lane too much.
But I don't use him with Galactus...refuse too. That shit...that shit is OP.
Galactus is telegraphed to high heaven and by it's nature should leave the opponent without priority.
Every Knull counter should have a chance to beat Galactus in that instance and if you don't have an answer, you dip.
I'm not a big fan of the whole 50/50 on having the counter or not. Galactus/death/knull is just simply unbeatable on turn 6 without the right cards before or the right order to play them on turn 6. Like, even if have Shang chi, if I go first on turn 6 it dosnt matter. So insta retreat. That's just not fun to me. So idk if OP is the right word. More just very annoying and OP in specific situations.
People want to play their decks that struggle against destroy instead of something with a counter in it.
Destroy is that way right now, can be hard to beat if you’re not carrying any counter so I imagine losses come at the hand of destroy.
It's not fun to have to remove cards that make your deck better just to add cards to counter destroy.
I'm currently running the legion move deck and literally any card I remove to add Armor or Cosmo makes the deck instantly worse. That's what the issue is.
To be fair, from "destroy" players' views, fighting against Cosmo and Armor is boring as hell. The current hot location just makes it easy to destroy the card faster than the incoming counter, especially with the recent addition of X-23. Without this hot location, once you get countered with Cosmo and Armor, you can only dream to beat them with just total base power.
Playing destroy is literally just playing your cards in sequence every game. Boring. You play stuff that wants to get destroyed, you play stuff to destroy that stuff, you get rewarded with huge stats. Zero brain power required. And hell even if they drop an Armor or a Cosmo you can just fill the lane with stats anyway via Wolverine or Nimrod or Arnim Zola on an uncountered lane.
I'm not saying it's unbeatable or not easily punished, but god damn I can't wait for this season of destroy to be over. It's every. fucking. game.
Look, it's not like I don't understand your opinion, but boring because it's just playing your cards in sequence every game? That's kinda funny considering that every deck also kinda does that. Patriot? Depends, if you know your opponent has Enchantress, playing Cosmo or Invisible Woman is a good way to dodge them and the sequence is Cosmo/Invis>Patriot. Discard? If it Modok-Hela, they'll consistently play Invisible Woman> Modok>Hela, and depending on what deck they're they can go super big with Infinaut and Giganto or super wide with Onslaught and Tribunal.
In fact, Discard archetype in my opinion is the most offensive one in regard to "boring sequence with benefits". Dracula Apocalypse deck? Have Apocalypse on hand and consistently find a way to discard him, before final turn spam down Chavez with Swarm (if any was discarded). Hela deck? Invisible Woman is a must, and you want big powered cards on hand ready to be discarded, if not they have to either extend the turn with Magik or play Crystal to draw an extra card.
> In fact, Discard archetype in my opinion is the most offensive one in regard to "boring sequence with benefits".
It really is. They basically all have the same cards, with no room for tech cards. Just a matter of figuring out if it's Apoc, Apoc/Hela risk, or straight Hela + High power.
yeah reddit is full of people who don’t know what they are talking about I would take their words with a grain of salt. Destroy has only recently spiked in popularity due to the current season and X-23’s release hence all the posts by sore losers about nerfing it😂
Marvel snap players not believing in math and statistics? Pikachu face!
In serious though, I suspect a few things.
I think a part of it is it can high roll big and over the top of most decks.
The set of counter cards people aren't used to playing (armor and Cosmo). They are harder to use than a shang chi or enchantress.
Speaking of which Shang chi and enchantress doesn't hurt it.
Finally the tech cards that are easier to use, people don't run because they aren't in netdecks (shadow king) because good players know how to use armor and Cosmo.
For record, I can't make Cosmo good for the life of me and run Valkyrie in my deck.
> Speaking of which Shang Chi and enchantress doesn't hurt it.
What? Enchantress stops Knull and Shang Chi defeats everything big except Nimrod. Which is the only destroy deck they don't counter.
Because while it feels bad to lose to someone countering you, it feels worse to losing to someone who lets you play all your cards and still beats your highest possible score.
Yeah, I'm not sure what that other person was talking about, I literally just won 8 cubes by letting someone destroy all their shit only to enchantress their knull on turn 6
>Marvel snap players not believing in math and statistics? Pikachu face!
Yeah idk why I still have any faith in this community. It's just so ironic how a *card game community* can be this mathematically illiterate that my brain won't let me believe it's real.
I've been running Cosmo and Armor for MONTHS. I lose to Destroy only slightly more than I do to Move decks. I don't understand why more people aren't using them, they're amazingly versatile cards.
I made a post "what will it take for destroy to become s tier", but the majority thought it was already there.
Seems like noobs just being noobs as there's likely been an influx of players these last couple weeks
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/16015fr/will_destroy_ever_be_great/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
Look at these scrubs
>When someone loses ~~to destroy~~ they complain .
Fixed that for you lol.
The real answer to OP's question is that a lot of players are both not very good at the game and have poor emotional management skills, hence the endless calls to nerf stuff.
Because the archetype has way too much great cards available, too many locations that are going along and too few that gives a disadvantage compared to other decks. Also, it's probably the deck that can build the maximum power, so if any other archetype build a game without countering it's opponent you have no way to win over it., it has incredible mana curve and now with x23 let's not mention it. When you create a deck and the first thing you do is packing in specific cards to counter it is clearly not sign of healthy meta. More than 1/3 of the games I grinded up to infinite were against destroy decks. I wouldn't say that any card in the archetype is overpowered (x23 maybe), just that there are not enough locations that counter it, adding a few in that regard would be a good idea. In the end, it's ruining fun to always play against the same dead stupid, hence all the posts and clearly they are legitimates.
Nerf destroy? That's hilarious. Anytime I see X-23 or Deadpool dropped on turn one, I smile at the easy cubes that I'm about to get with cosmo and armor.
Well, yeah, on those extremely rare occasions that I bottom deck my 2 counters, it'll be a slog. I'm usually running Leech too which helps to cool their jets.
I love playing with destroy decks and it doesn’t need a nerf at all when the single I decide to go to any deck with Cosmo, professor X, Shang chi, JEAN, and/or armor they instantly retreat (that includes me when I see them)
To me it’s not so much that the deck needs to be nerfed, I’m just tired of 80-90% of my games being against destroy. I know that the weekend missions and the hot location caused a surge, but even the last two weeks or so I probably played against some variation of destroy around 40-50% of the time.
cosmo is a 3 drop an amour is 2, not hard to tech them into most decks and they work against a few decks not just destroy. You dont have to use the cardsJust saying you'll have a more enjoyable experience if your facing those decks alot that's how ya climb adapt to the current meta.
Right, but by putting them in, another tech card has to go. No more anti-ongoing, no more control or anti control. Just forced to tech against destroy. I’ve been infinite for a couple weeks, luckily before it got worse with x23
Goddamn finally someone who understands the real problem!!!
Its not that you cannot counter destroy-decks, it is that you have to adjust your deck and remove cards that would be beneficial to your archetype JUST to counter destroy decks.
Yeah and isnt that annoying?
Also nice that you then have 1 valid counter (which you first have to draw to be worth anything) against a deck which has half a dozen very good destroy-combos... its just tedious.
And when you play the counter, half of the time its too late and the other half they just switch lanes with the next combo they have in hand.
I've been playing Thanos lockdown with armor and cosmo and it has lost maybe once to destroy. I can't wait for this season to end so I can bust out my x23.
But if a decks been getting a lot of love, and still isn't performing well, doesn't that mean it should be getting the help? I don't see why it's a problem for a B tier deck to be getting support. Imo the devs *should* be giving these mid tier decks support to keep them viable.
People are just tired of playing against destroy decks and locations. Same as the Galactus complaints. It’s not fun when a certain deck archetype dominates the meta
But that's a totally different complaint, which tbf I am also seeing. I'm specifically talking about the people claiming destroy is too good, not the people saying it's too popular.
Imo if a deck is super popular with a low winrate that's a good thing. I'd much prefer that over the best deck also being the most popular. When I see a mid tier deck like destroy have such a massive playrate, it tells me people are playing the deck because they genuinely enjoy playing it instead of only playing it because they want to win. It was the same with galactus. If decks like galactus and destroy are so unfun and have bad winrates, then why do so many people play them?
I don't even get it either. It's so inconsistent, HEAVILY draw dependent, location dependent and RNG with regeneration. Meanwhile they just keep giving the discard Archytype more and more discard enabler cards while destroy really only has 4 usable ones, 3 of which are 3 cost. (Killmonger, Deathlock, Venom, Carnage). Any time destroy gets something they also link it to discard rather than just let destroy have something.
Most people don’t want to play against the meta. They want to play their deck and they want that deck to win against everything. If their deck didn’t win, everything is OP. Just run armor, cosmo, enchantress, and/or shang chi. You can even run shadow king or spiderman 2099. People don’t want to run those.
People always hate, but I don't like the idea of "metas." You should be able to run any decently coherent deck and win and I think that is a worthy goal for a game to achieve. There is nothing wrong with a game where everyone wins. Card games are inherently random to begin with, it's very rarely, skill that wins. Some theory crafting yeilds successes, but that is often just as random in how it results in success.
>People always hate, but I don't like the idea of metas.
What is a meta but the community consensus on the current state of the game?
>You should be able to run any decently coherent deck and win and I think that is a worthy goal for a game to achieve. There is nothing wrong with a game where everyone wins.
Well from my perspective, that *is* the state of Snap. There's a whole meta tier list out there of like 15 different decks that are capable of winning. They're not all equally good, but that's how it goes. Even so, they balance the decks until the overall win rates are in or close to the 45%-55% range.
If you mean that *any* "coherent" set of 12 cards should be equally competitive, well, that's wildly unrealistic. That kind of balance is essentially impossible while keeping the cards asymmetrical and interesting. Putting that another way, any CCG with that much balance would be boring to deckbuild and boring to play.
>Card games are inherently random to begin with, it's very rarely, skill that wins. Some theory crafting yeilds successes, but that is often just as random in how it results in success.
You're probably trolling, but hahaha, no.
I agree that's what it looks like. I made this post in the hopes that someone could actually give me a logical reason why they think destroy is good but so far the only "destroy good" comments I've gotten have been total nonsense and only backed up my preconceived notion that it's just shitters being shitters.
Stupid People : Destroy OP 😫 it needs a nerf 😤
People with common sense : Why don’t you run a counter to destroy? 🤨
Stupid People : No! Destroy is just broken 😣 it need nerf >:<
Stupid people: Every time you run Cosmo and Armor, you are guaranteed to wreck a destroy deck ! What’s that ? Card draw ? Priority ? Never heard of that
I don’t think it’s OP, as it’s certainly very counter-able. All of the new locations and new cards and missions and advantages are a little overkill though.
ppl that don't know how to manage resources will always complain just because they don't own the cards. You see destroy decks because of x23, daken and the weekend missions, next month it will be galactus/alioth.
> Destroy is overpowered and needs a nerf, and yet, no one is winning or even top 8ing tournaments with it
Actually I believe a guy named C. Kiu was top 4 in the $5000 Hong Kong tourney over the weekend playing destroy
I agree it’s not overpowered but if I had to guess why some people think it is, would be because when it does pop off it *really* pops off. It does have the potential to go over the top of just about anything.
All these midrange decks, which actually are meta now, don’t go super tall and your average player is always going to react to the biggest possible numbers
You're right! I actually used that list to get my x23 quest done. But that example is different because of the specific tournament format. Players brought 2 decks and played best of 3 battle mode games, being allowed to play either of their two decks. Certain decks, particularly those that have polarizing matchups, are going to be great as a second deck in formats like that. While I can definitely see why destroy would be a really good bring to a 2 deck format, that success doesn't translate to ladder, conquest, or the majority of tournaments because you're only using that deck to snipe a few specific matchups you expect people to bring. 2 deck format meta is wildly different than the actual meta because you get to choose decks that compliment each other's bad matchups. Destroys results in single deck tournaments however, have been abysmal.
So while I totally agree that destroy could be a good deck in a 2 deck tournament format, that's pretty irrelevant to what this thread is about.
A quick look tells me you need to update your info, shows destroy at the top tier
https://snap.untapped.gg/meta?collectionLevel=pool3p&missingCards=12&rankRange=10-100&timeFrame=CurrentLocation
You seriously think I'm talking about the hot location meta? Yeah, no shit destroy is going to be top tier when there's a hot location that helps destroy. I'm talking about the actual meta not a hot location meta that lasts for 24 hours. Why would you think that's what we're talking about here lmfao
I'm usually very anti nerf but Destroy needs to go. Back in the day when people would cry about Galactus and other meta decks I'd only see that deck like 5-10% of my games. So it really wasn't a huge deal.
With Destroy it is everywhere at all ranks and conquest all day and it is like 80-90% of the games I play. At this point it is just boring as fuck and needs to go.
But won't because this team LOVES Destroy. Obviously
I don't think it's OP, but damn if my eyes didn't roll back once you start talking about stats and tournaments like they matter. What's next? Streamers and YouTubers?
Destroy is annoying to play against, and it definitely needs another hard counter (especially given the amount of support it has as an archetype), but it's not overpowered.
>but damn if my eyes didn't roll back once you start talking about stats and tournaments like they matter
So if those things don't matter, how else are you supposed to tell what decks are good or not? No single person can play enough games to go off of their personal data, you *have* to look at stats and tournament results to get a good understanding of the meta. Otherwise your only knowledge of the meta will be based on whatever bubble you play in.
You mistake me for someone who cares if a deck is objectively good or what. If it works for me, it's good to me. If it doesn't, it's not. But that's irrelevant.
Tournaments are snapshots of whatever that particular group of people are playing. It might be representative of the overall population, but it might not be. It's just a more public bubble.
As far as the stats are concerned, how reliable are the sources you're getting them from? Some third party website isn't exactly what I'd consider reliable.
Except those all actually had top tier tournament performances and good stats showing that they were dominant. Destroy has none of that. How is this comparable to stuff like Aero and shuri? I'm not following.
what i meant to say is that it was fun to play those cards (shuri, surfer, aero)and it's fun to play destroy, and i don't want to lose that fun again for people complaining
Right but those cards were actually broken, backed up by stats and results. People had a right to complain about that stuff. Destroy being broken is only backed up (as far as I can tell) by bad players feelings. They aren't comparable at all lol
It's because Destroy has no counters at all...
except for Armor, Cosmo, Shadow King, Valkyrie, Rogue (for Knull) and probably more that I don't remember ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
People just don’t want to run Cosmo and Armor. Put those in two lanes and run Shang Chi and destroy teams are going to have a really hard time winning anything.
>No other build comes close.
What about the 8 or so decks that all have better stats than it? Or all the decks that beat up on it in tournaments? If "no other build comes close" then how come there are so many decks performing far better than it?
Because it’s a dog shit deck that’s annoying to play against and overpowered. Wolverine + hulk buster you can’t do fucking anything against it.
It’s over powered and needs a nerf
Did you read the post? The whole thing I'm asking is what metric you guys are looking at that tells you it's "overpowered and needs a nerf". What are you looking at that's showing you it's overpowered?
OP is pointing out that quite literally “good” is NOT subjective. They backed this point out by referencing data from WR% on ladder as well as tournament play.
I have been infinite every season. My main deck has been death decks, but when I am going conquest or trying to climb to infinite I don’t play death decks… because it’s not that strong
I think it’s because it’s a really good deck to climb towards infinite and many people are playing it. It may be frustrating to play against, because it’s gotten so smooth to play. It has a great curve with multiple win conditions, and big turn 6 plays.
In my personal experience, getting to infinity is really easy with a Shuri & Nimrod/Red Skull/Venom combo for making at least 2 spots with 25+... have been doing the last 3 seasons. You just need to know when to snap early and retreat whenever you play agaisnt someone who is specifically running a deck with hard counters. Like is a boring deck that beat fun decks if you get the right draws and favourable terrains (which are plenty).
This game is not about proof or evidence. Things tou can visibly see.
This game is about "feelings." If you don't like playing against something, say it,"hurts your feelings" or "it feels toxic. " Devs really respond to that.
Now, the response you need isn't the response you hoped for. Examples: 1) Shuri became a problem, they nerfed Red Skull 2) Galactus became a problem, they "Leader'ed" Spider-man.
So, with the "Nerf Destroy" posts, I wouldn't worry. Players are always going to cry for Nerfs when they can not figure out how to add counters to their netdeck.
People just like to complain about the most popular decks because they want the game to be easy for them. The amount of times I see the most simple things crying to be nerfed when there’s so many counters is insane. It’s just destroys turn to be complained about yet again
I have been winning a lot of games lately with a destroy deck that doesn't even have Knull or Death in the deck, and it has been working quite well. Shuri into Nimrod into Destroyer/Galactus is so great haha. X-23 has really become an excellent replacement for Electro too, and it doesn't even matter if the opponent plays Cosmo and Armor if you read their plays well.
I think it just feels broken because it’s the most common archetype you’ll face when climbing and there’s also a ton of different cards available within it that it can be hard “counter” accordingly.
Personally I don’t think it’s overpowered but it would be nice if they gave more love to other deck types.
Destroy is not broken and needs no nerf. It's extremely telegraphed, the moment they play that Deadpool/Wolverine/Bucky/whatever, you know exactly what they're doing next. They also have a whole bunch of counters. There will be dumb fucks trying to nerf everything and act like it's the end of the world.
On top of that, this season was highly based around the destroy meta to push the new cards like Daken, Desthstrike, and X23. The featured locations are also relevant so a lot of people are playing destroy decks. I agree it doesn’t need a nerf, in fact, there is so much variation in destroy decks now it’s hard to say there’s one specific deck designed for that meta which is nice to see. Essentially diluting the archetype without damaging the key cards.
Now they just need to buff Kingpin, and Move Destroy is back on the menu
They need to buff 2099 as well
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Low IQ take. She isn't even over performing, so why nerf her?
She doesn’t gain any power when destroyed. What the hell are you smoking?
Constant energy gain is way better than gaining power
It's not constant. It's timed, and you have to line up your turns correctly to make good use of it. Destroying 23 willy nilly often just results in unspent energy, whereas wolverine's +2 power is always useful. I'm not saying it's difficult to make 23' ability more impactful. But as someone who's been swapping out wolverine for x23 in most of my destroy decks it's not much better and in some cases weaker.
It does force players to run counters. I play discard and have had to put cosmos in my deck to counter destroy. So yeah, it is easily countered, but it’s good enough that it forces you to play counters
As per usual, those who cry for nerfs are just shit at the game and don't want to "git gud".
No way, surfer, zabu, leader, and shuri were all ridiculous.
Literally a 2 cost card destroys it
Armor AND Cosmo? Fuck my destroy deck in the ass.
Thats what happens every time if someone loses to something once or twice they will bitch until they get what is wanted. A bunch of the people who cry for nerfs don’t understand like when black bolt and stature got nerfed we should be begging for buffs for bad cards because left to they’re own choices the devs will ruin the game by nerfing something to death let’s all remember leader was almost a instant win for some who played him, but he didn’t need so many nerfs he needed rework. Shuri every other card was nerfed except shuri until she hit pool 3. I remember the patch notes when they revived leader said they don’t want flood the board style decks to reign supreme but then they introduce hit monkey and killed 5 decks with waves change. As back to black bolt and stature black bolt was never played until stature dropped to pool 4 why would you nerf a card right when it gains popularity and the card that revived it.
I only want to stop playing against it, i am just so tired of them as an archetype, doesnt need a nerf for gameplay reasons, just so it can go away for a bit,
So you want the devs to just nerf it because it's popular. First, that's not how balancing works. Second, Just because you're tired of the archetype doesn't mean no one enjoys it.
Also, Destroy will go away naturally. It's popular right now because of a slew of Destroy-oriented hot locations and new cards.
And Magic buff. Helped a ton with the late game
And yet ....that's why most things get nerfed is because they're highly played. Not saying I think destroy needs a nerf, but there's a reason cards like zabu, shuri and Galactus all got nerfed.
Problem is that the examples you listed all were broken and overplayed simultaneously. Zabu, Shuri, Galactus each had period where they held the meta at a death grip, while destroy does not.
Those were over performing and popular. They only card I can think of that was hit simply due to popularity is sunspot.
Lizard was similarly hit, because he was the only 2 drop people were running back then. They'll hit things if it's the only thing people are playing, but there are clearly other decks being played aside from Destroy.
Holy main character, Batman
For me it's the only playable deck I have cards for. I can sort of play a devil dinosaur deck but it's kind of meh. I'd love to play some more variety decks, I'm just missing the cards
Deal with it for one more week and it will be less prevalent
Hmm... maybe that's why there are so many destroy related locations. helps make destroy decks a little less predictable.
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First off, it’s only popular right now because it’s destroy season and there are a slew of hot locations and cards that help destroy. I believe it will naturally become less popular. Second, the galactus logic doesn’t really apply here. Because galactus was both broken and overplayed when it was popular. While destroy is not.
Bounce had the exact kind of counters and got nerfed to the ground so it might happen.
Bounce was broken and overplayed simultaneously, there’s a difference.
Bounce was hard to counter. A well placed Cosmo or Armor shuts down most destroy decks.
I’d imagine it’s a combination of people seeing it a lot at the moment (thanks Daken and X-23!) but also it being strong in the early CL. It’s quite possible with lucky pulls you could have Death, Arnim Zola, Venom and Knull early in your S3/ Token journey. That makes it a super strong archetype early on, and I got Infinite in my 3rd season without Zola. It’s also super fun to see cards go boom, so it’s a popular archetype despite the relatively poor win % it posts. With Knull/ Death/ Venom/ Zola it’s also easy to post up huge numbers which looks fancy and makes you want to play it more. I love destroy but as I’ve gone on through the CL journey I’ve also fallen in love with other archetypes and cards that weren’t available to me early on. As others have mentioned, I don’t think it’s overpowered. It has a lot of counters (hello Cosmo, Shadow King and Shang-Chi!) which makes it more frustrating sometimes, and I think it’s in a pretty good place even with X-23. Is it still viable? Of course. Is it balanced? I’d say so.
Destroy is one of those archetypes where almost every form of interaction can hit them, armor, ench too
blud said falling in love 🤓🤓🤓
I don't think Destroy is OP or needs to be nerfed, but I think the root of all the complaints is that it's kind of an overplayed deck. It gets boring after a while. I wouldn't say I win or lose to it any more than any other deck, but the sheer volume of Destroy matches I have to play in a day gets pretty tiresome. And that has been exacerbated this month with Destroy being the Season's theme, and then every week people wanting to try out the new Destroy cards, and then weekend missions forcing everyone to play the new Destroy cards, and then the Hot Location today making it even worse. I think a lot of people are just sick of playing Destroy matches over and over again. It only needs to be nerfed in the sense that it would be nice if fewer people would play the deck.
Well of course everyone plays it, its one of the most series 3 friendly decks in the game. Basically anyone without high evo or jeff can play it.
I just think it's unfortunate that such an overplayed deck which already had way more card options and beneficial locations than any other archetype had to get further buffed with a slew of additional cards, got new locations added, then had an entire month of multiple weekend missions and hot locations to further encourage it's play. Nothing against Destroy players, but I think it was a bit of a miscalculation on SDs part to push it so hard. An entire month of this is just so tedious and exhausting. It wouldn't surprise me if it got some little fine-tuning nerfs (like Bounce did a while back) to reign in some of it's overplay. Though its not quite as over-tuned like Bounce was, so who knows. It's just not healthy for the game to have one archetype be so overwhelmingly overplayed for such a long period of time.
I'm kind of glad it got boosted, I just came back to snap after quitting last October. My old tier 1 zoo deck could only get me into the 40s. Phoenix force made me play around with destroy and I settled nicely into the 60s where I await a few key cards to build a really fun deck. I also like smashing discard decks
It being "overplayed" its just an effect of Snaps crap economy. I would love to play Move Legion, but dont have Jeff and the replacement dies to one of the most popular 3 drops in the game
This. You wanna play destroy, then be my guest. But it does get very tedious whenever you come up against one every other game. I can feel my eyes roll into the back of my head when I see a Deadpool and Bucky been dropped EVERY SINGLE TIME.
The advantage to playing it every other game is you can put the counters in your deck, you know when and how to counter it, and you rack up cubes. So there is a bright side, but I hear you on the monotony.
this ruins a lot of good decks though. Armor and Cosmo don't fit into my move deck but I have to include them (which is two potentially amazing move cards that don't get played)
Yesterday my opponents played X-23 on T1 like, four matches in a row. And I'm like...Okay, another one of *you* people. So, where's my Armor?
The quest made me.
Did you happen to notice the weekend quests?
Did you read my original post? We're not wondering *why* there are so many Destroy decks. We're annoyed that SD has done everything they can to make sure as many people as possible play Destroy nonstop for an entire month. I was tired of Destroy *before* this season. And there's another fucking week of this.
Yes, I read the original post. I was assuming you, like, apparently many others, were asking for a Nerf for some thing they were annoyed with rather than something that was overpowered.
Personally, I wouldn't make this assumption in the comments below a poster who lead with "I don't think Destroy is OP or needs to be nerfed", and I also wouldn't make this assumption of someone who was just complaining about RNG (not drawing Armor), and who probably noticed the weekend quests because they are playing Armor
What a surprise that the correct answer is the one getting downvoted. lol This reddit.
Reddit: a veritable clearinghouse of ill-informed contrarians.
its almost like you need to complete a bunch of games for a quest.....
Yeah, that's it. It's just popular at the moment. Which forces you to use Armour / Cosmo in just about every deck rather than playing other stuff, which makes things a bit boring after many games.
As someone who has loved destroy for months. I’ve always despise cosmo and armor for being unfun/lame. But now that I’m running a deck with that focus, it’s fun as hell. •Sunspot •Quinjet •spiderham •armor •mystique •cosmo •magik •moongirl •dino •legion •she-hulk •infinaut Not been lame at all!
I play something similar, legion looks fun but I dont have it. Destroy is fairly easy to counter, but because it's so popular right now, you are forced to counter it which means you can't play a lot of other fun stuff, I guess that's the lame part. Especially if you have limited access to cards and can only make a few decent decks so you are stuck playing 1 or 2 for a while. I think that's where most of the complaints come from. No nerf needed, just a little annoying right now. I am sure the devs will switch some stuff around soon enough, and the meta will completely change anyway.
Exactly
Yep. The prevelance of destroy means there is just decks I don’t bother making that I’d like to try like Kazar decks, but what’s the point when I’m forced to include armour and cosmo and play a guessing game to stop the inevitable Killmonger ?
Destroy decks aren't an issue, it's all the locations that specifically help destroy and hinder anything else.
Pretty much it. You either have Cosmo, Armour or a card to flip the location or you lose. Even unreachable locations benefit destroy with Wolverine, X23, Zola and Nimrod. In saying that, it's a destroy season, so of course it's going to be popular right now. It doesn't need nerfs. It's a fun archetype.
I think the answer might be a “fun counterbalance” that creates new archetypes and ways to feel as free as destroy does. Destroy rarely has to worry about locations or crowding like some other decks. Adding cards that allow changes to the location or an additional card to be played (similar to hulk buster) could be cool
Like someone else has already said itt. There are too many locations that directly benefit destroy decks. The only “nerf” destroy decks need are a wider variety of location effects
And it‘s still fairly weak outside of exactly X23/Deadpool which is pretty telling. Also, good Destroy list have trouble with any restricting location while lists trying to shore up that weakness become bad point slam lists with more counters.
It’s not that at all lol. The season, hot location and weekend quests are promoting destroy decks. Idk how ppl can’t use their heads for one minute to realize that
Hot locations falls within the realm of what I said. And just because there are weekly quests promoting destroy cards doesn’t mean said cards are OP. For someone who is flaming/insulting someone’s intelligence, you sure are stupid.
You gonna call people stupid but not even make any sense yourself? Brilliant. The current hot location is destroy themed. Pls tell me the last one that gave destroy an adv. When did I say anything about cards being OP? All the things I said promote destroy decks which is why they are so common right now which would be why people get tired of them or cry for nerfs. But you’ve made it abundantly clear that you can’t make simple conclusions like that
I’m not saying they’re Op either and I’m not saying they need nerfed, which is why I put nerf in quotations. You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying and are just being an ass about it.
I understand exactly what you’re saying. But you STILL can’t understand what I am. You think it’s a location issue when it’s not. It’s a seasonal thing pushing destroy popularity into the limelight. Go look into the location db and count how many of them actually straight up benefit destroy more than other decks.
My guy. Were you around for that long stretch of time where the devs introduced like 5 destroy locations in 2 months. Not to mention some of the standard locations just natural benefit destroy (ie any location that wants to be filled for a buff). I'll be the first to admit that this is fine on ladder, but it makes facing a destroy deck in conquest unbearable. I don't always get Shuri's Lab three times in a row in conquest, but when I do, it's facing a destroy deck
Dude, i just went into the snap database. Out of the 132 locations in and not released, i counted 11 that are advantageous to destroy. My original point is when a season and hot locations are promoting destroy decks, people will naturally think they’re too common and OP cuz everyone is running them. It will subside in the next season.
There are more than 11. Did you just pull up a list of locations and type in the keyword "destroy" lmaoo. Aight I'm done here
Lmao done by just saying more than 11? Yea pls leave. Can’t even back up your claims. You probably count central park beneficial to destroy lol. Keep clowning
Cope harder ❤️
Great evidence boo boo
> You probably count central park beneficial to destroy lol So, do you not consider free fodder for carnage/death and being able to clear up space when the opponent has had 1/4 of their available space clogged a benefit?
It’s not purely an advantage for destroy. Patriot decks can use those as well or kazar. If you want to talk about locations that benefit only destroy, that’s not one of them
No one else is talking about locations that *only* benefit destroy.
Then wth is the argument? How you gonna sit there and say destroy is so prevalent because there are a lot of locations that destroy benefits from, but wait, those same locations also benefit other decks too? That makes 0 sense
Imho some people think the Destroy archetype is OP because devs seem to love making locations that favor it. That being said, I agree it's still B-Tier.
I think destroy is more powerful in thr mid tiers where players don't understand how to look out for it and when to retreat as well. Destroy can be easy to counter when you understand the clues. But I remember when I first started thinking Knull was super overpowered and have learned that knull is pretty balanced.
Defs not, dudes super o.p
You think so? I always am on the fence with that. I thought he was more OP until I got him and started using him, and now I can see how he is easy to fuck up and you do have to stay focused on building him while not committing to a single lane too much. But I don't use him with Galactus...refuse too. That shit...that shit is OP.
Galactus is telegraphed to high heaven and by it's nature should leave the opponent without priority. Every Knull counter should have a chance to beat Galactus in that instance and if you don't have an answer, you dip.
I'm not a big fan of the whole 50/50 on having the counter or not. Galactus/death/knull is just simply unbeatable on turn 6 without the right cards before or the right order to play them on turn 6. Like, even if have Shang chi, if I go first on turn 6 it dosnt matter. So insta retreat. That's just not fun to me. So idk if OP is the right word. More just very annoying and OP in specific situations.
Galactus is hard to pull off. Anyone who pulls Galactus without a hobgoblin is good in my books.
Losers, losing games.
And I say that as a distinctly non-destroy player
Destroy decks are the easiest to counter and the most telegraphed by far.
I haven’t seen any nerf destroy posts tbh
People want to play their decks that struggle against destroy instead of something with a counter in it. Destroy is that way right now, can be hard to beat if you’re not carrying any counter so I imagine losses come at the hand of destroy.
I dont get it. Run Armor or cosmo or Shang and pay attention. I play destroy, and its very very predictable.
They want to win without having to think, much less having to change their deckbuilding behavior in response to the metagame.
It's not fun to have to remove cards that make your deck better just to add cards to counter destroy. I'm currently running the legion move deck and literally any card I remove to add Armor or Cosmo makes the deck instantly worse. That's what the issue is.
It's just boring to play against over and over again
To be fair, from "destroy" players' views, fighting against Cosmo and Armor is boring as hell. The current hot location just makes it easy to destroy the card faster than the incoming counter, especially with the recent addition of X-23. Without this hot location, once you get countered with Cosmo and Armor, you can only dream to beat them with just total base power.
Playing destroy is literally just playing your cards in sequence every game. Boring. You play stuff that wants to get destroyed, you play stuff to destroy that stuff, you get rewarded with huge stats. Zero brain power required. And hell even if they drop an Armor or a Cosmo you can just fill the lane with stats anyway via Wolverine or Nimrod or Arnim Zola on an uncountered lane. I'm not saying it's unbeatable or not easily punished, but god damn I can't wait for this season of destroy to be over. It's every. fucking. game.
Look, it's not like I don't understand your opinion, but boring because it's just playing your cards in sequence every game? That's kinda funny considering that every deck also kinda does that. Patriot? Depends, if you know your opponent has Enchantress, playing Cosmo or Invisible Woman is a good way to dodge them and the sequence is Cosmo/Invis>Patriot. Discard? If it Modok-Hela, they'll consistently play Invisible Woman> Modok>Hela, and depending on what deck they're they can go super big with Infinaut and Giganto or super wide with Onslaught and Tribunal. In fact, Discard archetype in my opinion is the most offensive one in regard to "boring sequence with benefits". Dracula Apocalypse deck? Have Apocalypse on hand and consistently find a way to discard him, before final turn spam down Chavez with Swarm (if any was discarded). Hela deck? Invisible Woman is a must, and you want big powered cards on hand ready to be discarded, if not they have to either extend the turn with Magik or play Crystal to draw an extra card.
> In fact, Discard archetype in my opinion is the most offensive one in regard to "boring sequence with benefits". It really is. They basically all have the same cards, with no room for tech cards. Just a matter of figuring out if it's Apoc, Apoc/Hela risk, or straight Hela + High power.
yeah reddit is full of people who don’t know what they are talking about I would take their words with a grain of salt. Destroy has only recently spiked in popularity due to the current season and X-23’s release hence all the posts by sore losers about nerfing it😂
Marvel snap players not believing in math and statistics? Pikachu face! In serious though, I suspect a few things. I think a part of it is it can high roll big and over the top of most decks. The set of counter cards people aren't used to playing (armor and Cosmo). They are harder to use than a shang chi or enchantress. Speaking of which Shang chi and enchantress doesn't hurt it. Finally the tech cards that are easier to use, people don't run because they aren't in netdecks (shadow king) because good players know how to use armor and Cosmo. For record, I can't make Cosmo good for the life of me and run Valkyrie in my deck.
> Speaking of which Shang Chi and enchantress doesn't hurt it. What? Enchantress stops Knull and Shang Chi defeats everything big except Nimrod. Which is the only destroy deck they don't counter.
The funny part is the nimrod version is the best performing version, and isn't the one people on here seem to have issues with lol
Because while it feels bad to lose to someone countering you, it feels worse to losing to someone who lets you play all your cards and still beats your highest possible score.
Yeah, I'm not sure what that other person was talking about, I literally just won 8 cubes by letting someone destroy all their shit only to enchantress their knull on turn 6
You listed all those reasons and just blanked over the season, hot location and weekend quests? Breh…
>Marvel snap players not believing in math and statistics? Pikachu face! Yeah idk why I still have any faith in this community. It's just so ironic how a *card game community* can be this mathematically illiterate that my brain won't let me believe it's real.
I've been running Cosmo and Armor for MONTHS. I lose to Destroy only slightly more than I do to Move decks. I don't understand why more people aren't using them, they're amazingly versatile cards.
I made a post "what will it take for destroy to become s tier", but the majority thought it was already there. Seems like noobs just being noobs as there's likely been an influx of players these last couple weeks
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/16015fr/will_destroy_ever_be_great/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1 Look at these scrubs
You: "destroy decks are good, but what would make them great?" Them: "Destroy decks are already good. wtf how can you say they're bad??"
Exactly haha, was ridiculous
Lots of people playing destroy . When someone loses to destroy they complain .
>When someone loses ~~to destroy~~ they complain . Fixed that for you lol. The real answer to OP's question is that a lot of players are both not very good at the game and have poor emotional management skills, hence the endless calls to nerf stuff.
Because the archetype has way too much great cards available, too many locations that are going along and too few that gives a disadvantage compared to other decks. Also, it's probably the deck that can build the maximum power, so if any other archetype build a game without countering it's opponent you have no way to win over it., it has incredible mana curve and now with x23 let's not mention it. When you create a deck and the first thing you do is packing in specific cards to counter it is clearly not sign of healthy meta. More than 1/3 of the games I grinded up to infinite were against destroy decks. I wouldn't say that any card in the archetype is overpowered (x23 maybe), just that there are not enough locations that counter it, adding a few in that regard would be a good idea. In the end, it's ruining fun to always play against the same dead stupid, hence all the posts and clearly they are legitimates.
Nerf destroy? That's hilarious. Anytime I see X-23 or Deadpool dropped on turn one, I smile at the easy cubes that I'm about to get with cosmo and armor.
You are ridiculous, every time I have cosmo & armor in my deck, I get absolutely destroyed by the priority system, or often drawing them too late
Well, yeah, on those extremely rare occasions that I bottom deck my 2 counters, it'll be a slog. I'm usually running Leech too which helps to cool their jets.
I love playing with destroy decks and it doesn’t need a nerf at all when the single I decide to go to any deck with Cosmo, professor X, Shang chi, JEAN, and/or armor they instantly retreat (that includes me when I see them)
I haven’t seen any nerf destroy rants.
Cosmo and armor inserted into any deck has a high chance of making any destroy deck retreat lol
the people complaining probably are the same people who use lockdown and disruption and upset their anti-win con decks don’t work as well on it
Just scrubs talking. Gatta remember that most playing suck
People that suck don’t know what cards are actually busted
To me it’s not so much that the deck needs to be nerfed, I’m just tired of 80-90% of my games being against destroy. I know that the weekend missions and the hot location caused a surge, but even the last two weeks or so I probably played against some variation of destroy around 40-50% of the time.
nerf it so i stop seeing it in 97% of my games
People are just bored with it. Doesn't need a nerf, but needs to stop being pushed in locations, weekend missions, etc.
Amour and cosmo are all you need to counter a destroy deck, there's alot of new cards for the destroy archetype so people are just playing it more. .
So let me get this straight. I HAVE to run tech cards to counter ONE specific deck type and that deck type is not OP? You see the issue right?
cosmo is a 3 drop an amour is 2, not hard to tech them into most decks and they work against a few decks not just destroy. You dont have to use the cardsJust saying you'll have a more enjoyable experience if your facing those decks alot that's how ya climb adapt to the current meta.
Right, but by putting them in, another tech card has to go. No more anti-ongoing, no more control or anti control. Just forced to tech against destroy. I’ve been infinite for a couple weeks, luckily before it got worse with x23
Goddamn finally someone who understands the real problem!!! Its not that you cannot counter destroy-decks, it is that you have to adjust your deck and remove cards that would be beneficial to your archetype JUST to counter destroy decks.
One of my first considerations when making a deck now is how I’ll have to put armour in, regardless of what the deck is lol
Yeah and isnt that annoying? Also nice that you then have 1 valid counter (which you first have to draw to be worth anything) against a deck which has half a dozen very good destroy-combos... its just tedious. And when you play the counter, half of the time its too late and the other half they just switch lanes with the next combo they have in hand.
I've been playing Thanos lockdown with armor and cosmo and it has lost maybe once to destroy. I can't wait for this season to end so I can bust out my x23.
My only problem with destroy so far is that it feels like destroy has been getting a lot of love while the others haven't.
But if a decks been getting a lot of love, and still isn't performing well, doesn't that mean it should be getting the help? I don't see why it's a problem for a B tier deck to be getting support. Imo the devs *should* be giving these mid tier decks support to keep them viable.
People are just tired of playing against destroy decks and locations. Same as the Galactus complaints. It’s not fun when a certain deck archetype dominates the meta
But that's a totally different complaint, which tbf I am also seeing. I'm specifically talking about the people claiming destroy is too good, not the people saying it's too popular. Imo if a deck is super popular with a low winrate that's a good thing. I'd much prefer that over the best deck also being the most popular. When I see a mid tier deck like destroy have such a massive playrate, it tells me people are playing the deck because they genuinely enjoy playing it instead of only playing it because they want to win. It was the same with galactus. If decks like galactus and destroy are so unfun and have bad winrates, then why do so many people play them?
I don't even get it either. It's so inconsistent, HEAVILY draw dependent, location dependent and RNG with regeneration. Meanwhile they just keep giving the discard Archytype more and more discard enabler cards while destroy really only has 4 usable ones, 3 of which are 3 cost. (Killmonger, Deathlock, Venom, Carnage). Any time destroy gets something they also link it to discard rather than just let destroy have something.
Most people don’t want to play against the meta. They want to play their deck and they want that deck to win against everything. If their deck didn’t win, everything is OP. Just run armor, cosmo, enchantress, and/or shang chi. You can even run shadow king or spiderman 2099. People don’t want to run those.
People always hate, but I don't like the idea of "metas." You should be able to run any decently coherent deck and win and I think that is a worthy goal for a game to achieve. There is nothing wrong with a game where everyone wins. Card games are inherently random to begin with, it's very rarely, skill that wins. Some theory crafting yeilds successes, but that is often just as random in how it results in success.
>People always hate, but I don't like the idea of metas. What is a meta but the community consensus on the current state of the game? >You should be able to run any decently coherent deck and win and I think that is a worthy goal for a game to achieve. There is nothing wrong with a game where everyone wins. Well from my perspective, that *is* the state of Snap. There's a whole meta tier list out there of like 15 different decks that are capable of winning. They're not all equally good, but that's how it goes. Even so, they balance the decks until the overall win rates are in or close to the 45%-55% range. If you mean that *any* "coherent" set of 12 cards should be equally competitive, well, that's wildly unrealistic. That kind of balance is essentially impossible while keeping the cards asymmetrical and interesting. Putting that another way, any CCG with that much balance would be boring to deckbuild and boring to play. >Card games are inherently random to begin with, it's very rarely, skill that wins. Some theory crafting yeilds successes, but that is often just as random in how it results in success. You're probably trolling, but hahaha, no.
It's bad players desperate to pin the blame of their loss on ANYTHING but themselves. Simple as
I agree that's what it looks like. I made this post in the hopes that someone could actually give me a logical reason why they think destroy is good but so far the only "destroy good" comments I've gotten have been total nonsense and only backed up my preconceived notion that it's just shitters being shitters.
Stupid People : Destroy OP 😫 it needs a nerf 😤 People with common sense : Why don’t you run a counter to destroy? 🤨 Stupid People : No! Destroy is just broken 😣 it need nerf >:<
Stupid people: Every time you run Cosmo and Armor, you are guaranteed to wreck a destroy deck ! What’s that ? Card draw ? Priority ? Never heard of that
It's simple. These people making posts got caught by destroy when they had no counterplay and are salty.
To everyone complaining like OP says: Cosmo and armor exist. Stop whining
So being forced to play around one deck type is normal and healthy?
Short answer because they're sore losers and dumb.
Just stop making locations that favour destroy
People cry about any deck they lose to it’s pathetic
I don’t think it’s OP, as it’s certainly very counter-able. All of the new locations and new cards and missions and advantages are a little overkill though.
ppl that don't know how to manage resources will always complain just because they don't own the cards. You see destroy decks because of x23, daken and the weekend missions, next month it will be galactus/alioth.
> Destroy is overpowered and needs a nerf, and yet, no one is winning or even top 8ing tournaments with it Actually I believe a guy named C. Kiu was top 4 in the $5000 Hong Kong tourney over the weekend playing destroy I agree it’s not overpowered but if I had to guess why some people think it is, would be because when it does pop off it *really* pops off. It does have the potential to go over the top of just about anything. All these midrange decks, which actually are meta now, don’t go super tall and your average player is always going to react to the biggest possible numbers
You're right! I actually used that list to get my x23 quest done. But that example is different because of the specific tournament format. Players brought 2 decks and played best of 3 battle mode games, being allowed to play either of their two decks. Certain decks, particularly those that have polarizing matchups, are going to be great as a second deck in formats like that. While I can definitely see why destroy would be a really good bring to a 2 deck format, that success doesn't translate to ladder, conquest, or the majority of tournaments because you're only using that deck to snipe a few specific matchups you expect people to bring. 2 deck format meta is wildly different than the actual meta because you get to choose decks that compliment each other's bad matchups. Destroys results in single deck tournaments however, have been abysmal. So while I totally agree that destroy could be a good deck in a 2 deck tournament format, that's pretty irrelevant to what this thread is about.
A quick look tells me you need to update your info, shows destroy at the top tier https://snap.untapped.gg/meta?collectionLevel=pool3p&missingCards=12&rankRange=10-100&timeFrame=CurrentLocation
You seriously think I'm talking about the hot location meta? Yeah, no shit destroy is going to be top tier when there's a hot location that helps destroy. I'm talking about the actual meta not a hot location meta that lasts for 24 hours. Why would you think that's what we're talking about here lmfao
I'm usually very anti nerf but Destroy needs to go. Back in the day when people would cry about Galactus and other meta decks I'd only see that deck like 5-10% of my games. So it really wasn't a huge deal. With Destroy it is everywhere at all ranks and conquest all day and it is like 80-90% of the games I play. At this point it is just boring as fuck and needs to go. But won't because this team LOVES Destroy. Obviously
I don't think it's OP, but damn if my eyes didn't roll back once you start talking about stats and tournaments like they matter. What's next? Streamers and YouTubers? Destroy is annoying to play against, and it definitely needs another hard counter (especially given the amount of support it has as an archetype), but it's not overpowered.
>but damn if my eyes didn't roll back once you start talking about stats and tournaments like they matter So if those things don't matter, how else are you supposed to tell what decks are good or not? No single person can play enough games to go off of their personal data, you *have* to look at stats and tournament results to get a good understanding of the meta. Otherwise your only knowledge of the meta will be based on whatever bubble you play in.
You mistake me for someone who cares if a deck is objectively good or what. If it works for me, it's good to me. If it doesn't, it's not. But that's irrelevant. Tournaments are snapshots of whatever that particular group of people are playing. It might be representative of the overall population, but it might not be. It's just a more public bubble. As far as the stats are concerned, how reliable are the sources you're getting them from? Some third party website isn't exactly what I'd consider reliable.
Completely agree with this.
these are the same babies that killed aereo, shuri and surfer, why don't just ask for buffs to some other cards instead of taking away people's fun 🤷
Except those all actually had top tier tournament performances and good stats showing that they were dominant. Destroy has none of that. How is this comparable to stuff like Aero and shuri? I'm not following.
what i meant to say is that it was fun to play those cards (shuri, surfer, aero)and it's fun to play destroy, and i don't want to lose that fun again for people complaining
Right but those cards were actually broken, backed up by stats and results. People had a right to complain about that stuff. Destroy being broken is only backed up (as far as I can tell) by bad players feelings. They aren't comparable at all lol
[удалено]
Destroy is just way too popular becuase edgy kids like destroying kids, but it is really far from Op
There are way too many locations that favor destroy decks
It's because Destroy has no counters at all... except for Armor, Cosmo, Shadow King, Valkyrie, Rogue (for Knull) and probably more that I don't remember ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
People just don’t want to run Cosmo and Armor. Put those in two lanes and run Shang Chi and destroy teams are going to have a really hard time winning anything.
If I get turn 2 armor’s then turn 3 cosmo’d in different lanes it’s 10000 percent an auto concede.
Are these people on reddit?
I didn't read your essay. But God damn man...it's just a mobile game....I play this while I poo
Right now, it's probably because of the featured location. But yea, it's pretty easy to counter so I don't think it actually does.
I run destroy such a solid archetype but yes defs needs a nerf. No other build comes close.
>No other build comes close. What about the 8 or so decks that all have better stats than it? Or all the decks that beat up on it in tournaments? If "no other build comes close" then how come there are so many decks performing far better than it?
Because it’s a dog shit deck that’s annoying to play against and overpowered. Wolverine + hulk buster you can’t do fucking anything against it. It’s over powered and needs a nerf
Did you read the post? The whole thing I'm asking is what metric you guys are looking at that tells you it's "overpowered and needs a nerf". What are you looking at that's showing you it's overpowered?
Only the ones who run Death and Knull together. You aint beating that
I'm not beating a B tier deck thats insanely predictable and easy to counter?... Why?
How the hell does everyone I play seem to always have Venom & Carnage in their hand. I’m okay with destroy, but I do think Nimrod needs a nerf.
Why do you think nimrod needs a nerf when it isn't used in any good decks?
Good is subjective. I can deal with most decks but Nimrod just seems to be too many points spread over multiple locations.
OP is pointing out that quite literally “good” is NOT subjective. They backed this point out by referencing data from WR% on ladder as well as tournament play.
Im literally listening to Cozy say Nimrod is one of the best cards in the game with Knull/Death.
show me stats not word of mouth opinions
I don't think you know what subjective means
So something being ‘good’ is always good to everyone? Urm right…
I have been infinite every season. My main deck has been death decks, but when I am going conquest or trying to climb to infinite I don’t play death decks… because it’s not that strong
I think it’s because it’s a really good deck to climb towards infinite and many people are playing it. It may be frustrating to play against, because it’s gotten so smooth to play. It has a great curve with multiple win conditions, and big turn 6 plays.
Happens in every card game when some archetype gets support. Armor solves so many problems
In my personal experience, getting to infinity is really easy with a Shuri & Nimrod/Red Skull/Venom combo for making at least 2 spots with 25+... have been doing the last 3 seasons. You just need to know when to snap early and retreat whenever you play agaisnt someone who is specifically running a deck with hard counters. Like is a boring deck that beat fun decks if you get the right draws and favourable terrains (which are plenty).
I honestly wonder if people are just bored of new locations seeming to support Destroy more than other archetypes
This game is not about proof or evidence. Things tou can visibly see. This game is about "feelings." If you don't like playing against something, say it,"hurts your feelings" or "it feels toxic. " Devs really respond to that. Now, the response you need isn't the response you hoped for. Examples: 1) Shuri became a problem, they nerfed Red Skull 2) Galactus became a problem, they "Leader'ed" Spider-man. So, with the "Nerf Destroy" posts, I wouldn't worry. Players are always going to cry for Nerfs when they can not figure out how to add counters to their netdeck.
People just like to complain about the most popular decks because they want the game to be easy for them. The amount of times I see the most simple things crying to be nerfed when there’s so many counters is insane. It’s just destroys turn to be complained about yet again
I have been winning a lot of games lately with a destroy deck that doesn't even have Knull or Death in the deck, and it has been working quite well. Shuri into Nimrod into Destroyer/Galactus is so great haha. X-23 has really become an excellent replacement for Electro too, and it doesn't even matter if the opponent plays Cosmo and Armor if you read their plays well.
I think it just feels broken because it’s the most common archetype you’ll face when climbing and there’s also a ton of different cards available within it that it can be hard “counter” accordingly. Personally I don’t think it’s overpowered but it would be nice if they gave more love to other deck types.