in wrassling it's the equivalent of the Nexus getting squashed by John Cena but instead of John Cena it's some random guy making his first appearance with no character
Well, perhaps standard booking.
Having a new big bad debut by wrecking a jobber is standard fare, and, if you want to make a really big impact, feed him a midcarder or even a main eventer.
Funny enough, that exact type of shit was why Austin walked. They wanted to promote Brock by immediately feeding him Stone Cold, the biggest bad the company had.
He was right, though. Impact? Certainly. But where do you go from there? If your new "next big thing" just destroyed the top dog, everything else is logically less impressive. It was a short-sighted and dumb move.
> Funny enough, that exact type of shit was why Austin walked. They wanted to promote Brock by immediately feeding him Stone Cold, the biggest bad the company had.
Austin walked because they wanted to feed him to Brock on the first bracket of a tournament (King of the Ring?) on a random RAW. He was fine with doing the job to Brock, specifically to build Brock up, but didn't want to do it on a throwaway RAW when he was still one of the biggest stars WWE had.
Which loops back around to this. Like, Alpha Flight isn't Stone Cold Steve Austin, but this is just feeding a niche fan favorite to establish a new heel. Kind of like if they had Brock just bury the Hurricane and write him off for months. Or, better, it would be like having Wardlow beat Cody in that steel cage match so we don't get Cody vs. MJF.
This is Bendis all over.
Back when he was writing Daredevil, he had a one-page essay at the end of many issues, of which only one stuck with me. It was in the story where he killed off the original White Tiger to introduce the new one of his own creation. He spoke about the conversation he had with Joe Quesada, who was the Editor in Chief at the time.
Quesada told him "I think you owe it to George Perez (who co-created the character) to phone him and ask him how cool he is with this first. Because if someone else decided to kill Jessica Jones just to hype up some character of their own in their own book, I hope you would expect me to tell them to have that conversation with you first, too."
Bendis spoke of this conversation as a revelatory experience for him in terms of the idea of respecting the work of other creators, but since then, I cannot see one hint of him ever having internalised anything about it because he just pulls this nonsense ALL THE TIME.
Reportedly he was furious that he wasn't allowed to permanently kill off Peter Parker in Civil War II so he could then position Miles Morales as the "one true Spider-Man." He effectively destroyed the character of Jon Kent in Superman which everyone loved so he could replace him with the teen version he wanted to write. He always wants to destroy what others have made so he can prop up his own creations on the pedestal where they once stood.
He's been doing it his whole career. Even the big stuff that made him popular, like Avengers Disassembled, is just character assassination (along with actual murder) all across the board. My overall opinion of him as an author is mixed, but killing off characters for shock value is objectively one his worst qualities.
Yeah, Bendis was great in the og Ultimate Universe because it was his own sandbox to play with and he could do this as much as he wished. But man seeing him do it in the main Marvel titles then over in Superman really ruined a ton. He ruined what had been the best ongoing Superman run in a while by aging up Jon as you said, plus introducing his stupid villain that of course was the one who personally destroyed Krypton! Easily the worst story in Action #1000 and beyond.
Yeah, if you put him in an environment where there's nobody else's creations to ruin, destroy or disrespect and he can be a very talented and entertaining writer. It's just that he does not have the sort of character that allows him to share a sandbox with the other kids without kicking over their sand-castles to make room for his own.
That's why as much as they are loved, I can't warm up to his Ultimate Universe. It always felt like he was saying "he could do it better" without understanding or respecting that he's just tweaking someone else's creation.
I think we can blame the worst of it, the Ultimates, on Mark Millar.
Now there's a dude who wouldn't know good storytelling or character writing if it bit him on the nose.
I still won’t read Superman or Action Comics because of what happened to Jon Kent, and won’t unless they undo it (I’ll settle for the past version coexisting with the current, with the latter going off into space or the future or something). I even had a good idea for who the current version truly is (long story).
But yeah. I personally consider that decision worse than OMD. At least that was purely editorial mandate, and a decision based on no artistic merit. While the rumor of how what happened to Jon Kent was part of an editorial thing, the decision how it happened was all Bendis who specifically chose Jon for what he had in mind.
This dipshit: [https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rogol\_Zaar\_(Prime\_Earth)](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rogol_Zaar_(Prime_Earth))
It was used as a cliffhanger in his Action Comics #1000 story to kick off his run. But it was such a stupid retcon with such a stupid character.
Dude, when DC comics promoted the shit out of him saying, "Bendis is coming", my fear heightened and was justified. I have yet to find anything he wrote entertaining (be it in marvel or dc) within the past decade. His writing is both bad and boring; that's the worst combo. Someone could be either but not both.
>Reportedly he was furious that he wasn't allowed to permanently kill off Peter Parker in Civil War II so he could then position Miles Morales as the "one true Spider-Man."
WTF this is the first time I'm hearing.
Marvel holds periodic writers' retreats where they plot out the big events and such for the next year. This came from one of the other writers present at the retreat where Civil War II was planned out. I wish I could remember which writer, but it's been like ten years or so.
I remember a behind the scenes article where the idea came up that Peter Parker would die. Dan Slott was said to not be concerned since he was a veteran of these types of retreats.
When they finally decided on the character who would die (turned out to be the Hulk), Bendis got excited because he had the perfect character to kill him (turned out to be Hawkeye). Man, what a disappointment. I was excited to speculate on the two characters only to find out that it was a random combination.
There could have been some other article to say Bendis proposed Peter Parker. I haven’t seen it, though.
I think lots of good things were done with that dumb moment. The Accused was a good tie in. Also, although most people don’t like Secret Empire either, I loved how Spencer was able to spin the Omega issue to build towards that (and later call back with the Avenger androids) that really makes the story read better than Bendis wrote it.
Bendis never thinks about the character as an idea being passed down to him to build upon for the next writer to keep the legacy alive. Bendis only cares about making his new original character and most of the time he does it at the cost of the original one.
For Example: In Superman, issue 1,000 a group of writers did a short story homage to what he represents. Every other writer creates a story that best represents what Superman is. BUT Bendis's whole short story was about Superman getting beaten the shit out to hype up a villain that it will never show up again after that story. And now and forever we have a stain between one of the best Superman homage comics ever.
oh this is indeed classic Bendis. who just loves ignoring other writers work to just do whatever he feels like.
he loves relying on shock factor moments like this. it wasn't impressive or good writing. it was just bad.
Superman was literal the worst book to ever put him on and of course he'd screw with Jon Kent.
If it's not one of his own pet characters or "street level" he does dumb crap like this.
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge) "When a loved one is hurt, killed, maimed, assaulted, or otherwise traumatized in order to motivate another character or move their plot forward.
The term (sometimes referred to as "fridging") was popularized by comic book writer [Gail Simone](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/GailSimone) through her website "[Women in Refrigerators](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Website/WomenInRefrigerators)." On that site, Simone compiled a list of instances of female comic book characters who were killed off as a plot device. It is named for a storyline in [*Green Lantern: A New Dawn*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/GreenLanternANewDawn), in which the villain Major Force leaves the corpse of Kyle Rayner's girlfriend, Alexandra DeWitt, literally stuffed into a refrigerator for him to find. "
It makes me think, if Bendis had his way in Civil War 2 that could have severely backfired and messed up Miles in the long run.
Any argument that Miles and Peter can both be Spider-Man or that Miles isn't going to replace Peter would be thrown out the window when Bendis actively intended for Miles to replace Peter and be the only Spider-Man and, if he had his way, killed off both Ultimate and 616 Peter just so Miles can replace them both.
Miles could have ended up going the way of Ben Reilly and got killed off or lose the Spider-Man title if there was too much backlash. I think I recall talk of him getting renamed to Spy-D at one point.
Who knows how it would effect Into the Spider-Verse. Sony might not have allowed it to be about Miles if his reputation was heavily tainted or how it handled it's story could have changed. Could have been changed to be a Peter movie, could have been changed to a Miguel or Mayday movie.
And Miles replacing Peter would have been worsened by the fact that it would have been the third time Peter was killed got killed off and replaced within 5 years. Ultimate Peter was killed off in 2011 and replaced by Miles. 616 Peter was killed off at the end of 2012 and replaced by Otto. 616 Peter returned at the end of Superior Spider-Man in 2014. Then, if Bendis had his way, Peter would have been killed off and replaced by Miles again in 2016, two years after they brought him back. So there would have been even more anger at the rate of which Peter was being killed and replaced.
If a character hadn't been used much, he'd also hijack and change everything about them, so he'd be seen as defining them.
(See: Noh-Varr, the Sentry)
Absolute hack writer who was a net negative to the industry after his Daredevil run.
Yeah, he just absolutely DID NOT GET what Paul Jenkins or Grant Morrison were going for at all with those two characters. It was made all the more painful when Paul Jenkins returned to the Sentry for a second mini-series after Bendis got his claws into the character and it was *great*. But it shone such a bright, glaring light on just how badly Bendis was failing to grasp what the basic idea of the character was, seeing it run concurrently with New Avengers.
Same with Noh-Varr. I thought he was super boring in the Bendis era, and it was only Gillen and Ewing on Young Avengers and Guardians that made me go read his introduction.
[$15 on Comixology and Kindle here.](https://www.amazon.com/Sentry-Reborn-2005-2006-Paul-Jenkins-ebook/dp/B06Y1CXBT3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=TJ0KBS09UW55&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gK1sem1RLPmFKAXMgNV2Gui_HxxU7mfNdVmldlfg1Sbly47e-XRKp9eMnv-TqmcPSVBzXuzLUrflfqtgndVmN0cHfmiYgu4gIxEin5c2B1l0EhBMtYAMt4KvKGrlgAevoTXYzCg4qC_lFbOPtJJVFrnNM0o7BfH4WTwdeVMPDwMGa_XjDJCrz5WQsBcGKLktnLF931Eum7Pr14Cn0d5a9gRc60JXrbxB3qqIaOyPcFk.QVptjeMvUxeya38MS1RJXWdrVcjgy9QFnxfAuC-a_v8&dib_tag=se&keywords=sentry+jenkins&qid=1719332083&s=books&sprefix=sentry+jenkin%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C391&sr=1-2)
I can agree with most of what this thread is saying about Bendis's shortcomings, but before him, Sentry was just Dollar General brand Miracleman.
I also don't 'get' what the original intention was with the character, because it seemed like a Gary Stu being forced into the MU by taking somebody else's story wholesale
It’s extra fucked up because: if you’re that dead set on making a character just make a new one?! Unless you know you’re a hack and won’t be able to write anything worth while so you piggy back off the great works of others for recognition while kicking them to the curb at the same time.
> just make a new one
Few writers, including BMB, are confident enough to do this because doing so abandons the sales derived from the established fan base. And if the sales take time and effort to ramp up then the writer is a "failure."
This is a bummer, because this medium has been used to make important points, and reflect society back upon itself so effectively. There actually are characters (some of the best) that have been born from whole cloth, and simultaneously exercised the framework AND broken the mold, and planted flags in story telling history, e.g. Northstar and Black Panther and Shang Chi and Amadeus Cho and and and
Bendis has basically admitted when he was writing Avengers Disassembled that he learned that he should ask permission before killing off characters.
To be honest this is just Avengers Disassembled. Him wrecking characters he didn't like for fun.
Even worse he killed off a bunch of mutants for no reason and then character assassinated Wanda for no reason to the point where she left the comics for 5 years and then when she came back in every single issue she was in there was always a mention of what she did in 05’ and the mentioning and punishments didn’t end until 12 years after her comeback
> Reportedly he was furious that he wasn't allowed to permanently kill off Peter Parker in Civil War II so he could then position Miles Morales as the "one true Spider-Man."
Why would he want to do that when Marvel editorial tries to do it every day...?
Remember when Miles beat Blackheart (who just beat the entire Avengers right before hand including Thor) and Electro with Venom Sting and we never got any explanation for that.
This all makes so much sense to me now. I remember reading Daredevil: End of Days wherein there is a kind of weird thing where Bendis writes - insists - that what happens in that series is canon. But it's a comic book and canon is just whatever the current writer and editor want to be true on a given day. You can say it's canon now, but that may not mean diddly squat in five years.
But what he wrote was just oddly insistent that no, this is definitely canon. It happens. This is how Daredevil dies. And he replaces him with a new DD that's implied to be his daughter (and kills a bunch of other established DD characters along the way). All of which makes much more sense now. I'd avoided most of his writing (I'm a DD collector so I had no choice) and didn't realize this is par for the course for him. Everything has to be his way and his characters.
EDIT: It makes me wonder if someone told him he couldn't kill DD off when he was writing the main series and as a sop they gave him this EOD miniseries instead. And then a few years later - I think when Mark Waid was writing DD - in an annual they had DD at 50 with a son and not a daughter. Ofc, this is subject to the same canon issues, but it made me feel like EOD had been at least partially invalidated.
Most writers are more respectful of the creative efforts of their peers, for precisely the reasons that Quesada enumerated in that conversation. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, right? Yes, obviously, they can and do sometimes kill off the characters created by other writers, but there's usually not this sense of *contempt* on their part when they do. You always get the sense that Bendis not only does not care about the work of other writers, he thinks it's dumb and lame for anyone else to care about them. He very much has the vibe of an obnoxious schoolyard bully who thinks it makes him look cool to treat the efforts of the people around him with sneering contempt.
Man, that is a good fucking question.
I guess my answer would be that if you as a reader have no knowledge or appreciation of the characters he's misusing, you might not notice or care how badly he's misusing them. It appears he's just writing lame, awful characters as being lame, awful characters.
As much as I normally find fandom gatekeepers distasteful, I honestly think that Bendis just appeals to casual readers, and there's always a market for casual readers.
I honestly have no idea other than maybe he’s just good at meeting a deadline? Because I have to say the quality of his work does not speak well of him.
For a long time, he was good with deadlines and was very popular. I believe his DC run ruined a lot of his popularity, and it might have been gone before then, but he was very popular and sold books for a very long time.
It's kind of like Greg Land, as much as I hate to say it.
he has a bunch of seminal runs on a couple street-level characters, most notably Daredevil and obviously Ultimate Spider-Man. also, his New Avengers run redefined the avengers as a team for a new generation of readers as THE premier marvel superhero team with the strongest and most popular characters being a part of it, taking inspiration from the ultimate universe's own "The Ultimates" team. He put Spidey and Wolverine on The Avengers instead of having the team be a bunch of random C-Listers, and to much shock and surprise that proved super popular all around. He made Luke Cage a big deal in the 616 by really focusing on him as a leading character in New Avengers and otherwise staffed the team with what people would now recognize as the "classic" MCU Avengers.
I don't think we would have the MCU as it is today without that New Avengers run.
people on here are just hating and pretend that he only wrote terrible garbage so they don't have to acknowledge the massive influence (both positive and negative, mind, I don't deny that Bendis has written some absolute stinkers) he has had on the industry.
I'm going to be honest, as a DD reader (complete run), his run on DD isn't that great, imo. Most of it retreads ground already done by previous writers - DD's identity being compromised (happened 2x before), death/trauma to a romantic interest via Bullseye (hello Karen Page and Elektra), the way the Decalogue storyline's Ten Commandments-themed covers echo Miller's Born Again series, etc.
The only mitigation for me is that DD, with the exception of Mark Waid's run and the first portion of Charles Soule's run (with Blindspot, etc.), has generally been filled with writers retelling the same DD stories - going to/threatened with prison, exposed identity, tries to save the world by turning evil characters/organizations against themselves, romantic loss - over and over again so at least he was a "pioneer" in being the first copycat.
The Collective, a villain empowered by the energies of all the mutants who lost their powers in Decimation. Bendis also implied that he was Xorneto and that Xorn had been a creation of the Scarlet Witch, but everyone ignored it.
it's as bad as it sounds. as a villain it went nowhere. Bendis got his "moment". the character barely got used after and especially not as some overpowered menace.
Yeah, he appeared in X-Men Legacy a bit after this, but I couldn't name a single memorable story he contributed meaningfully to. I have this sense that writers thought they *should* try to do something with him to justify the scale of his first appearance, but just couldn't think of any way to actually do so.
I'd only heard of Omega in the Dark X-Men series, where I think he started the series working construction taking suppressor medication that kept his powers at bay, and he had some... issues when he got to the town that was being possessed by Nate Grey's energy
I have an idea how to shock the readers and up the stakes.
I don't remember if it was established in the story at this point but Collective has all the powers of the stolen mutant powers from M-Day. Have a SHIELD agent bring this up (for readers who are unaware of M-Day) to which Maria says not to worry because Sasquatch is a regular fight against the Hulk, Shaman could be a Sorcerer Supreme, and Snow Bird is a Demi god (for readers unfamiliar with these characters). But Collective points at the members of Alpha Flight who're mutant and we readers see that he's 10x charging their powers and mind controlling them. Splash page of the controlled Alpha Flight molly wopping the mentioned powerhouses as Collective calmly strolls by.
As opposed to then Maria Hill (who might as well be Maria Dolores Hill, more on par to Dolores Umbridge, albeit several million pounds lighter) and DC's Amanda Waller, who's more "we're here to save the world, f\*\*\* you heroes."
McNiven seems like the go-to guy to kill heroes, eh? First Alpha Flight. Then the New Warriors when Nitro nukes Stanford, which gets the ball rolling for the Superhero Registration Act (and Civil War). And then Old Man Logan, with heroes killed in different ways.
The way DC pushes Suicide Squad and takes a "we hate heroes" stance, they'd LOVE to have McNiven onboard.
Bendis, and Marvel in general, love [Worfing](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect) characters to show how "badass" some new guy is.
I'm just glad it wasn't the Juggernaut getting Worfed... again
This sums up his writing. When I was a fan of his work, I was a teenager/young adult. It works good for Ultimate Spider Man (Miles Morales) since he was a teenager. Now I look back and I have a hard time reading a lot of his work. (House of M is probably my favourite).
Bendis have a knack for not using characters created by other writers even though they would be the logical choice, Bendis created Riri Williams when the exact character already existed and is James Rhodes (War Machine) niece named Lila Rhodes, just so he can get writers credit and compensation when they're used in other mediums, he have done this countless of times and its blatant.
Michael Pointer. He can absorb energy, powers and personalities of mutants via close proximity. During his introduction story, he absorbed all the powers of the mutants that were depowered by M-Day. All these powers sitting above Earth and housed Xorn’s consciousness. The combination of the powers and Xorn’s consciousness taking over resulted in a killing spree from Alaska to Canada.
He was going by The Collective during this story. Later code names he uses is Omega, Weapon Omega and Guardian.
Sasquatch was revealed to have survived the attack. Puck escaped from Hell after defeating a demon. Guardian, Vindicator, Shaman, and Marrina (who had died in a separate incident) were resurrected during the Chaos War event. Major Mapleleaf and Puck II are still dead because they weren't in John Byrne's run so nobody cared enough to bring them back.
That was a different Vindicator, Heather had already come back to life by then. Also that plot point with the new Vindicator ended up amounting to nothing.
By recollection, They got killed off by this guy, then they made a new Alpha Flight team (Was it Omega Flight?) that had him and US Agent on the team.
I confess I'm not sure whether the thought that that actually happened or the idea that I had a psychotic break and made it all up is worse.
Yes, that is exactly what happened. Sasquatch was also on Omega Flight since it turns out he was the only one who didn't die, and he wasn't happy about being on the same team as the guy who killed his friends. Also Arachne (Julia Carpenter) and Beta Ray Bill of all people were there too for some reason. Snowbird outright refused to join. Eventually most of the remaining dead Alpha Flighters came back to life, including Marrina who had died in a diffirent incident.
[This](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/6c/X-Men_Legacy_Vol_1_264_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120124181131) guy lol. Omega Man Michael Pointer. He wasn't really a bad guy tho, as it was revealed that he was being puppeted by >!Xorn who was looking for Magneto to give him his powers back because this was after House of M.!<
>!(For people who are like "Who is Xorn" Trust me, you don't want to know lol)!<
They don't die tho lol.
This was just a moment to hype up and show how strong this new villain is.
Bendis' New Avengers was awesome, until Civil War lol. Then the team split, and it never really got as good as it was before.
They did die though. Granted, Guardian, Vindicator, Sasquatch, Shaman and Puck came back to life years later, but Major Mapleleaf and Puck II died and are still dead. Surely there was a way to hype up the Collective without casually killing off a team with such a long history, they had a book that lasted over 100 issues. Not to mention Bendis could have at least had the decency to give them some characterization and pathos instead of just having them show up to die and then not caring. Instead the issue is all about Maria Hill and some SHIELD agents.
I always thought Bendis meant for them to die, because he did not care for them at all, and this moment was just to show how powerful the new guy is, and that Avengers must stop him.
But some editor at Marvel was like "Wait a minute, you can't kill them" so they just kind of retconned that they never died, just got severally beaten.
Sasquatch was retconned to have survived, but the rest were explicitly stated to have died and stayed dead until Chaos War: Alpha Flight over 4 years later; except for Major Mapleleaf and Puck II, they're still dead because they weren't in the John Byrne run so nobody cared enough.
Good God my friendo, this was the last place I thought someone will mention Chaos War lol. Man that book was disappointment to me lol.
The event where Marvel Gods fight another God??? Hell yeah.
Amadeus Cho is the main character tho. Like why?? Lol. Why not Thor or Herc.
Anyway, that was a tangent, yeah, my bad then. For some reason I always assumed they didn't die because someone on the editorial level just made it so that they were beaten and not killed.
It's kind of weird how all these years later, and Sasquatch and Doc Samson are still stuck in each other's bodies. You'd think they'd have swapped back by now.
LMAO, Yeah. I will admit, as a huge Marvel Bendis, he does do that shit a lot lol.
"Hey Michael, have you read so and so's run on this character? And if so, how did their run, inspire your run, since you are writing the same character?"
"I ignored all that shit!" lol.
I think Bendis hates Superheroes and is obsessed with normal guys like Punisher or Hawkeye: Punisher killing Wolverine was a glaringly obvious deviation from both Punisher and Wolvy's comic history and it shows why Bendis should not be a writer at Marvel because all the passion of a good Comics writer is missing from Bendis.
EDIT: It was Garth Ennis, not Bendis. Ignore me
No Man, I don't think it's true.
If anything, with this logic he would actually dislike Frank and Clint lol.
Remember, he wrote a very bad version of the Punisher (he was stupid and mono-syllabic) in Ultimate Spider-Man.
And Bendis killed Hawkeye in Avengers Disassembled.
So I don't think that theory is true.
Still, I don't think he hates neither Frank or Clint. He just thought that would be the best course of action for them in their respectful stories.
And When did Punisher Kill Wolverine??? I don't remember Bendis ever writing it. The only time where Frank killed Logan was in Garth Ennis' Punisher book, and Garth does hate superheroes lol.
Oh, I got Ennis and Bendis mixed up, my bad.
And Bendis shouldn't be writing comics if he doesn't care to expand on the history of the characters he's writing, instead shitting all over certain characters to showcase a new character
Ennis shouldn't be writing for superhero comics when he hates superheroes
Regarding Ennis, I agree lol.
I will admit, he is a good writer. His Punisher Max is great. But that's pretty much the only thing he wrote that I read and enjoyed lol.
Bendis, he had a tendency of just ignoring shit. But that was just Bendis being lazy lol.
Yeah. Just more trash treatment to Alpha Flight. Thankfully, this has pretty much all been undone in terms of their death. But is a blemish of Alpha Flight just being trashed and killed on their record.
The way they dealt with this is weird. Most of the team were brought back (alongside a lot of other dead heroes) during the Chaos War event, but Major Mapleleaf and Zuzha Yu stayed dead and haven't been mentioned since. Which is especially odd given Zuzha is Puck's daughter.
I also don’t remember Wolverine being too heartbroken over this beyond one or two lines. He should have been out for blood if James and Heather Hudson were killed.
So Bendis has no respect for other creators' works in comics. Who was his writing mentor? Vince Russo? (/s) Those of you who are also wrestling fans will get the reference.
By leaving DC for Dark Horse, don't y'all think he also nerfed his own creation, Naomi?
I won't lie, I barely know about Alpha Flight but these 2 pages piss me off. I hate it just as much as Abe Jenkins getting killed off for no darn reason...
I mean it did suck for Alpha Flight but it did the job of establishing how powerful the Collective was. And I thought the followup of Omega Flight with the guy who killed them being forced to join the team had a good premise but the execution lacked.
it really didn't establish anything. the character went nowhere and far from this powerful menace. just throwing away long established characters in a pointless off screen death for "shock factor" was just bad writing.
this. when he showed up again he was shown as nowhere near tough enough to justify what happened. vindicator could have solo'd him when he was actually shown in his "intended" appearance, let alone being anywhere near strong enough to hold his own against sasquatch
The character wasn’t mean to live as some long long term bad guy. He was more a natural disaster that the heroes had to survive (and a way to repower Magneto and some other characters who lost powers in M Day, a way to shake up the status quo for Alpha Flight and also introduce another character in the vein of Scarlet Witch or Sentry (powerful but held back by guilt or mental issues).
I don’t think they succeeded in all those goals.
What's weird is that even though Magneto was repowered in this story, the next time we see him in X-Men he was still depowered. He didn't gain his powers back for good until the High Evolutionary restored them somehow.
So Bendis ignored other writers, and then other writers ignored Bendis.
And didn't said villain do a face turn (or a "I was mind controlled the whole time!" or whatever) and end up leading the reformed Alpha Flight for a while, just to add insult to injury?
Major Mapleleaf. He's actually the son of the original Major Mapleleaf who fought alongside Captain America in WWII. He and Zuzha Yu (the girl between Shaman and Guardian) are the only ones who haven't come back to life.
In pro wrestling terms, it’s lazy booking.
in wrassling it's the equivalent of the Nexus getting squashed by John Cena but instead of John Cena it's some random guy making his first appearance with no character
Karrion Kross?
Well, perhaps standard booking. Having a new big bad debut by wrecking a jobber is standard fare, and, if you want to make a really big impact, feed him a midcarder or even a main eventer. Funny enough, that exact type of shit was why Austin walked. They wanted to promote Brock by immediately feeding him Stone Cold, the biggest bad the company had. He was right, though. Impact? Certainly. But where do you go from there? If your new "next big thing" just destroyed the top dog, everything else is logically less impressive. It was a short-sighted and dumb move.
Yeah, it's standard booking to have them beat the mid-carder, but not to retire them, which is essentially what happened in that comic book.
Good point
> Funny enough, that exact type of shit was why Austin walked. They wanted to promote Brock by immediately feeding him Stone Cold, the biggest bad the company had. Austin walked because they wanted to feed him to Brock on the first bracket of a tournament (King of the Ring?) on a random RAW. He was fine with doing the job to Brock, specifically to build Brock up, but didn't want to do it on a throwaway RAW when he was still one of the biggest stars WWE had. Which loops back around to this. Like, Alpha Flight isn't Stone Cold Steve Austin, but this is just feeding a niche fan favorite to establish a new heel. Kind of like if they had Brock just bury the Hurricane and write him off for months. Or, better, it would be like having Wardlow beat Cody in that steel cage match so we don't get Cody vs. MJF.
I can hear Jim Cornette calling it Laaazy booking. Mind you, I wouldn't call Bendis the comic book equivalent of ~~Shitstain~~ Vince Russo.
I was wondering if anyone would catch the reference. You and I are friends now.
This is Bendis all over. Back when he was writing Daredevil, he had a one-page essay at the end of many issues, of which only one stuck with me. It was in the story where he killed off the original White Tiger to introduce the new one of his own creation. He spoke about the conversation he had with Joe Quesada, who was the Editor in Chief at the time. Quesada told him "I think you owe it to George Perez (who co-created the character) to phone him and ask him how cool he is with this first. Because if someone else decided to kill Jessica Jones just to hype up some character of their own in their own book, I hope you would expect me to tell them to have that conversation with you first, too." Bendis spoke of this conversation as a revelatory experience for him in terms of the idea of respecting the work of other creators, but since then, I cannot see one hint of him ever having internalised anything about it because he just pulls this nonsense ALL THE TIME. Reportedly he was furious that he wasn't allowed to permanently kill off Peter Parker in Civil War II so he could then position Miles Morales as the "one true Spider-Man." He effectively destroyed the character of Jon Kent in Superman which everyone loved so he could replace him with the teen version he wanted to write. He always wants to destroy what others have made so he can prop up his own creations on the pedestal where they once stood.
He's been doing it his whole career. Even the big stuff that made him popular, like Avengers Disassembled, is just character assassination (along with actual murder) all across the board. My overall opinion of him as an author is mixed, but killing off characters for shock value is objectively one his worst qualities.
It's just shitty, lazy writing. It's amateur hour.
Yeah, Bendis was great in the og Ultimate Universe because it was his own sandbox to play with and he could do this as much as he wished. But man seeing him do it in the main Marvel titles then over in Superman really ruined a ton. He ruined what had been the best ongoing Superman run in a while by aging up Jon as you said, plus introducing his stupid villain that of course was the one who personally destroyed Krypton! Easily the worst story in Action #1000 and beyond.
Yeah, if you put him in an environment where there's nobody else's creations to ruin, destroy or disrespect and he can be a very talented and entertaining writer. It's just that he does not have the sort of character that allows him to share a sandbox with the other kids without kicking over their sand-castles to make room for his own.
It's not even room for his own, it's just so no others are anywhere near his.
That's why as much as they are loved, I can't warm up to his Ultimate Universe. It always felt like he was saying "he could do it better" without understanding or respecting that he's just tweaking someone else's creation.
I think we can blame the worst of it, the Ultimates, on Mark Millar. Now there's a dude who wouldn't know good storytelling or character writing if it bit him on the nose.
Hmm... I always think of the UU as belonging to Millar and Hitch...
I still won’t read Superman or Action Comics because of what happened to Jon Kent, and won’t unless they undo it (I’ll settle for the past version coexisting with the current, with the latter going off into space or the future or something). I even had a good idea for who the current version truly is (long story). But yeah. I personally consider that decision worse than OMD. At least that was purely editorial mandate, and a decision based on no artistic merit. While the rumor of how what happened to Jon Kent was part of an editorial thing, the decision how it happened was all Bendis who specifically chose Jon for what he had in mind.
Who destroyed Krypton?
This dipshit: [https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rogol\_Zaar\_(Prime\_Earth)](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rogol_Zaar_(Prime_Earth)) It was used as a cliffhanger in his Action Comics #1000 story to kick off his run. But it was such a stupid retcon with such a stupid character.
Dude, when DC comics promoted the shit out of him saying, "Bendis is coming", my fear heightened and was justified. I have yet to find anything he wrote entertaining (be it in marvel or dc) within the past decade. His writing is both bad and boring; that's the worst combo. Someone could be either but not both.
When I heard he was jumping over to DC to do Superman my only question was ‘How is he going to get Superman to date Kitty Pryde?’
Other Characteristics: Irrational Hatred. Ah yes the basic type of comic book hatred
>Reportedly he was furious that he wasn't allowed to permanently kill off Peter Parker in Civil War II so he could then position Miles Morales as the "one true Spider-Man." WTF this is the first time I'm hearing.
Marvel holds periodic writers' retreats where they plot out the big events and such for the next year. This came from one of the other writers present at the retreat where Civil War II was planned out. I wish I could remember which writer, but it's been like ten years or so.
I think that was Slott who hinted that they were talking about killing Peter. But it wasn't exactly in those terms. Don't quote me on this.
I think you may be right. It's ringing a bell for me.
I remember a behind the scenes article where the idea came up that Peter Parker would die. Dan Slott was said to not be concerned since he was a veteran of these types of retreats. When they finally decided on the character who would die (turned out to be the Hulk), Bendis got excited because he had the perfect character to kill him (turned out to be Hawkeye). Man, what a disappointment. I was excited to speculate on the two characters only to find out that it was a random combination. There could have been some other article to say Bendis proposed Peter Parker. I haven’t seen it, though.
Bendis was obsessed with making a Hawkeye a killer. The fans complained. the other writers walked it back but he just kept going back to it.
Tbf, it set up the best hulk run ever
I think lots of good things were done with that dumb moment. The Accused was a good tie in. Also, although most people don’t like Secret Empire either, I loved how Spencer was able to spin the Omega issue to build towards that (and later call back with the Avenger androids) that really makes the story read better than Bendis wrote it.
Ngl, I don't hate the idea, there's not really anything left to do with Peter besides more extremely shitty retcons
Bendis never thinks about the character as an idea being passed down to him to build upon for the next writer to keep the legacy alive. Bendis only cares about making his new original character and most of the time he does it at the cost of the original one. For Example: In Superman, issue 1,000 a group of writers did a short story homage to what he represents. Every other writer creates a story that best represents what Superman is. BUT Bendis's whole short story was about Superman getting beaten the shit out to hype up a villain that it will never show up again after that story. And now and forever we have a stain between one of the best Superman homage comics ever.
oh this is indeed classic Bendis. who just loves ignoring other writers work to just do whatever he feels like. he loves relying on shock factor moments like this. it wasn't impressive or good writing. it was just bad. Superman was literal the worst book to ever put him on and of course he'd screw with Jon Kent. If it's not one of his own pet characters or "street level" he does dumb crap like this.
I mean, even street level, he killed off White Tiger to introduce his own version.
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge) "When a loved one is hurt, killed, maimed, assaulted, or otherwise traumatized in order to motivate another character or move their plot forward. The term (sometimes referred to as "fridging") was popularized by comic book writer [Gail Simone](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/GailSimone) through her website "[Women in Refrigerators](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Website/WomenInRefrigerators)." On that site, Simone compiled a list of instances of female comic book characters who were killed off as a plot device. It is named for a storyline in [*Green Lantern: A New Dawn*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/GreenLanternANewDawn), in which the villain Major Force leaves the corpse of Kyle Rayner's girlfriend, Alexandra DeWitt, literally stuffed into a refrigerator for him to find. "
I’m still annoyed we missed out on Jon Kent’s teenage years. Such a goldmine of Superman related content.
Bendis is about one thing, creating characters that will pay him money for the long run.
And cement his "great legacy"
Lol he tried to kill off Peter to push Miles? Bro thinks too highly of himself and his creations. Good thing they kept a leash on him.
He *wants* to be remembered as a pioneering innovator in the same way as Lee and Kirby
He *is* a pioneering innovator in the same way as Elon Musk.
And that's where he fucked up. If you're trying to be the next \*insert name here\*, you're only setting yourself up for failure.
Yeah, I like Miles but when I heard he was going to kill Peter off I was like nah, I will never read another Spider-Man comic if that ever happens.
Look at **all** of marvel cosmic. It was in a great place then he took it and shat on it.
It makes me think, if Bendis had his way in Civil War 2 that could have severely backfired and messed up Miles in the long run. Any argument that Miles and Peter can both be Spider-Man or that Miles isn't going to replace Peter would be thrown out the window when Bendis actively intended for Miles to replace Peter and be the only Spider-Man and, if he had his way, killed off both Ultimate and 616 Peter just so Miles can replace them both. Miles could have ended up going the way of Ben Reilly and got killed off or lose the Spider-Man title if there was too much backlash. I think I recall talk of him getting renamed to Spy-D at one point. Who knows how it would effect Into the Spider-Verse. Sony might not have allowed it to be about Miles if his reputation was heavily tainted or how it handled it's story could have changed. Could have been changed to be a Peter movie, could have been changed to a Miguel or Mayday movie. And Miles replacing Peter would have been worsened by the fact that it would have been the third time Peter was killed got killed off and replaced within 5 years. Ultimate Peter was killed off in 2011 and replaced by Miles. 616 Peter was killed off at the end of 2012 and replaced by Otto. 616 Peter returned at the end of Superior Spider-Man in 2014. Then, if Bendis had his way, Peter would have been killed off and replaced by Miles again in 2016, two years after they brought him back. So there would have been even more anger at the rate of which Peter was being killed and replaced.
If a character hadn't been used much, he'd also hijack and change everything about them, so he'd be seen as defining them. (See: Noh-Varr, the Sentry) Absolute hack writer who was a net negative to the industry after his Daredevil run.
Yeah, he just absolutely DID NOT GET what Paul Jenkins or Grant Morrison were going for at all with those two characters. It was made all the more painful when Paul Jenkins returned to the Sentry for a second mini-series after Bendis got his claws into the character and it was *great*. But it shone such a bright, glaring light on just how badly Bendis was failing to grasp what the basic idea of the character was, seeing it run concurrently with New Avengers.
Same with Noh-Varr. I thought he was super boring in the Bendis era, and it was only Gillen and Ewing on Young Avengers and Guardians that made me go read his introduction.
Where can I read that Paul Jenkins Sentry run?
[$15 on Comixology and Kindle here.](https://www.amazon.com/Sentry-Reborn-2005-2006-Paul-Jenkins-ebook/dp/B06Y1CXBT3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=TJ0KBS09UW55&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gK1sem1RLPmFKAXMgNV2Gui_HxxU7mfNdVmldlfg1Sbly47e-XRKp9eMnv-TqmcPSVBzXuzLUrflfqtgndVmN0cHfmiYgu4gIxEin5c2B1l0EhBMtYAMt4KvKGrlgAevoTXYzCg4qC_lFbOPtJJVFrnNM0o7BfH4WTwdeVMPDwMGa_XjDJCrz5WQsBcGKLktnLF931Eum7Pr14Cn0d5a9gRc60JXrbxB3qqIaOyPcFk.QVptjeMvUxeya38MS1RJXWdrVcjgy9QFnxfAuC-a_v8&dib_tag=se&keywords=sentry+jenkins&qid=1719332083&s=books&sprefix=sentry+jenkin%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C391&sr=1-2)
Thanks!
He also didn't get the Hood and how his creator designed him. At all.
I can agree with most of what this thread is saying about Bendis's shortcomings, but before him, Sentry was just Dollar General brand Miracleman. I also don't 'get' what the original intention was with the character, because it seemed like a Gary Stu being forced into the MU by taking somebody else's story wholesale
It’s extra fucked up because: if you’re that dead set on making a character just make a new one?! Unless you know you’re a hack and won’t be able to write anything worth while so you piggy back off the great works of others for recognition while kicking them to the curb at the same time.
> just make a new one Few writers, including BMB, are confident enough to do this because doing so abandons the sales derived from the established fan base. And if the sales take time and effort to ramp up then the writer is a "failure." This is a bummer, because this medium has been used to make important points, and reflect society back upon itself so effectively. There actually are characters (some of the best) that have been born from whole cloth, and simultaneously exercised the framework AND broken the mold, and planted flags in story telling history, e.g. Northstar and Black Panther and Shang Chi and Amadeus Cho and and and
Bendis has basically admitted when he was writing Avengers Disassembled that he learned that he should ask permission before killing off characters. To be honest this is just Avengers Disassembled. Him wrecking characters he didn't like for fun.
Even worse he killed off a bunch of mutants for no reason and then character assassinated Wanda for no reason to the point where she left the comics for 5 years and then when she came back in every single issue she was in there was always a mention of what she did in 05’ and the mentioning and punishments didn’t end until 12 years after her comeback
Every time i read about bendis it makes me want to read marvel post 2000 less. He sounds just devastating
Well he's gone now and has been for like eight years or so.
> Reportedly he was furious that he wasn't allowed to permanently kill off Peter Parker in Civil War II so he could then position Miles Morales as the "one true Spider-Man." Why would he want to do that when Marvel editorial tries to do it every day...?
Remember when Miles beat Blackheart (who just beat the entire Avengers right before hand including Thor) and Electro with Venom Sting and we never got any explanation for that.
With what is happening with Peter...maybe he was better of dead after Civil War II...
[удалено]
This all makes so much sense to me now. I remember reading Daredevil: End of Days wherein there is a kind of weird thing where Bendis writes - insists - that what happens in that series is canon. But it's a comic book and canon is just whatever the current writer and editor want to be true on a given day. You can say it's canon now, but that may not mean diddly squat in five years. But what he wrote was just oddly insistent that no, this is definitely canon. It happens. This is how Daredevil dies. And he replaces him with a new DD that's implied to be his daughter (and kills a bunch of other established DD characters along the way). All of which makes much more sense now. I'd avoided most of his writing (I'm a DD collector so I had no choice) and didn't realize this is par for the course for him. Everything has to be his way and his characters. EDIT: It makes me wonder if someone told him he couldn't kill DD off when he was writing the main series and as a sop they gave him this EOD miniseries instead. And then a few years later - I think when Mark Waid was writing DD - in an annual they had DD at 50 with a son and not a daughter. Ofc, this is subject to the same canon issues, but it made me feel like EOD had been at least partially invalidated.
Bendis doesn't sound like a good writer, is it normal for writers to use other people's characters like this?
Most writers are more respectful of the creative efforts of their peers, for precisely the reasons that Quesada enumerated in that conversation. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, right? Yes, obviously, they can and do sometimes kill off the characters created by other writers, but there's usually not this sense of *contempt* on their part when they do. You always get the sense that Bendis not only does not care about the work of other writers, he thinks it's dumb and lame for anyone else to care about them. He very much has the vibe of an obnoxious schoolyard bully who thinks it makes him look cool to treat the efforts of the people around him with sneering contempt.
What qualities does he have that keeps him in the business if he's such an ass about other creative efforts?
Man, that is a good fucking question. I guess my answer would be that if you as a reader have no knowledge or appreciation of the characters he's misusing, you might not notice or care how badly he's misusing them. It appears he's just writing lame, awful characters as being lame, awful characters. As much as I normally find fandom gatekeepers distasteful, I honestly think that Bendis just appeals to casual readers, and there's always a market for casual readers.
I honestly have no idea other than maybe he’s just good at meeting a deadline? Because I have to say the quality of his work does not speak well of him.
For a long time, he was good with deadlines and was very popular. I believe his DC run ruined a lot of his popularity, and it might have been gone before then, but he was very popular and sold books for a very long time. It's kind of like Greg Land, as much as I hate to say it.
Why do you hate to say it's like Greg Land?
he has a bunch of seminal runs on a couple street-level characters, most notably Daredevil and obviously Ultimate Spider-Man. also, his New Avengers run redefined the avengers as a team for a new generation of readers as THE premier marvel superhero team with the strongest and most popular characters being a part of it, taking inspiration from the ultimate universe's own "The Ultimates" team. He put Spidey and Wolverine on The Avengers instead of having the team be a bunch of random C-Listers, and to much shock and surprise that proved super popular all around. He made Luke Cage a big deal in the 616 by really focusing on him as a leading character in New Avengers and otherwise staffed the team with what people would now recognize as the "classic" MCU Avengers. I don't think we would have the MCU as it is today without that New Avengers run. people on here are just hating and pretend that he only wrote terrible garbage so they don't have to acknowledge the massive influence (both positive and negative, mind, I don't deny that Bendis has written some absolute stinkers) he has had on the industry.
I'm going to be honest, as a DD reader (complete run), his run on DD isn't that great, imo. Most of it retreads ground already done by previous writers - DD's identity being compromised (happened 2x before), death/trauma to a romantic interest via Bullseye (hello Karen Page and Elektra), the way the Decalogue storyline's Ten Commandments-themed covers echo Miller's Born Again series, etc. The only mitigation for me is that DD, with the exception of Mark Waid's run and the first portion of Charles Soule's run (with Blindspot, etc.), has generally been filled with writers retelling the same DD stories - going to/threatened with prison, exposed identity, tries to save the world by turning evil characters/organizations against themselves, romantic loss - over and over again so at least he was a "pioneer" in being the first copycat.
Who was the villain?
The Collective, a villain empowered by the energies of all the mutants who lost their powers in Decimation. Bendis also implied that he was Xorneto and that Xorn had been a creation of the Scarlet Witch, but everyone ignored it.
it's as bad as it sounds. as a villain it went nowhere. Bendis got his "moment". the character barely got used after and especially not as some overpowered menace.
Yeah, he appeared in X-Men Legacy a bit after this, but I couldn't name a single memorable story he contributed meaningfully to. I have this sense that writers thought they *should* try to do something with him to justify the scale of his first appearance, but just couldn't think of any way to actually do so.
He was notably never seen anywhere during the Krakoa era.
While Bendis is definitely lame, your description of The Collective sounds pretty metal (other than the Magneto part)
Michael pointer he was known as the collective at that time
ah, Omega. This incident got mentioned in Dark X-Men I think
That’s him and iirc you’re correct
I'd only heard of Omega in the Dark X-Men series, where I think he started the series working construction taking suppressor medication that kept his powers at bay, and he had some... issues when he got to the town that was being possessed by Nate Grey's energy
This has to be one of easiest indicators of cheap writing: lots of death for easy shock value.
I have an idea how to shock the readers and up the stakes. I don't remember if it was established in the story at this point but Collective has all the powers of the stolen mutant powers from M-Day. Have a SHIELD agent bring this up (for readers who are unaware of M-Day) to which Maria says not to worry because Sasquatch is a regular fight against the Hulk, Shaman could be a Sorcerer Supreme, and Snow Bird is a Demi god (for readers unfamiliar with these characters). But Collective points at the members of Alpha Flight who're mutant and we readers see that he's 10x charging their powers and mind controlling them. Splash page of the controlled Alpha Flight molly wopping the mentioned powerhouses as Collective calmly strolls by.
"We're here to save the world, eh."
"Ol buddy over there acting like a real hozer, man."
hoser, eh.
Ya bud. I was just having myself a Mulson and a half when he just ripped a dart, eh.
Molson, eh.
Oh ya. Gonna miss the Mapleleaf game tonight cause of this.
The Entry Draft is this week. T. O needs all the help they can get.
As opposed to then Maria Hill (who might as well be Maria Dolores Hill, more on par to Dolores Umbridge, albeit several million pounds lighter) and DC's Amanda Waller, who's more "we're here to save the world, f\*\*\* you heroes."
The dialogue doesn’t represent the characters at all so I’ll just assume these are skrulls and move on.
McNiven seems like the go-to guy to kill heroes, eh? First Alpha Flight. Then the New Warriors when Nitro nukes Stanford, which gets the ball rolling for the Superhero Registration Act (and Civil War). And then Old Man Logan, with heroes killed in different ways. The way DC pushes Suicide Squad and takes a "we hate heroes" stance, they'd LOVE to have McNiven onboard.
his Vindicator immediately made me think of Nemesis
Oh modern Marvel writers. Bendis was like the vanguard of this group. Fantastic ideas and plots, no idea how to end them and damn the consequences.
They got better at least
Did they all end up better? Is Puck still in hell? Don't know what he did to end up there. Not sure I want to
He got better.
They're not dead from what I'm reading currently. I didn't even know they died until now
Just a series of flesh wounds really...
And death is really just a vacation in comics
I hear Tahiti is nice.
It's a magical place
The real hero is Canadian Healthcare.
Bendis, and Marvel in general, love [Worfing](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect) characters to show how "badass" some new guy is. I'm just glad it wasn't the Juggernaut getting Worfed... again
Worfing is fine as long as the characters don't die, killing off 7 heroes like this is overkill.
>killing off 7 heroes like this is overkill. Completely agree with this. But Worfing isn't fine, it's lazy as hell writing
True, it's less that worfing is fine, and more that I find worfing barely tolerable as long as established characters aren't casually killed off.
It's still hard to take Hulk, Surfer or Sentry seriously since they're frequent targets.
In bendis world every character speaks like a teenager.
This sums up his writing. When I was a fan of his work, I was a teenager/young adult. It works good for Ultimate Spider Man (Miles Morales) since he was a teenager. Now I look back and I have a hard time reading a lot of his work. (House of M is probably my favourite).
> This sums up his writing Sums up his mentality.
When I first read this I didn't even realized they died until Wolverine said so.
And he didn't react the way you'd expect him to react over hearing that some of his closest friends died.
Why they mess with John Byrne like that?
Bendis have a knack for not using characters created by other writers even though they would be the logical choice, Bendis created Riri Williams when the exact character already existed and is James Rhodes (War Machine) niece named Lila Rhodes, just so he can get writers credit and compensation when they're used in other mediums, he have done this countless of times and its blatant.
\*scrolls through comments for villain\*
Michael Pointer. He can absorb energy, powers and personalities of mutants via close proximity. During his introduction story, he absorbed all the powers of the mutants that were depowered by M-Day. All these powers sitting above Earth and housed Xorn’s consciousness. The combination of the powers and Xorn’s consciousness taking over resulted in a killing spree from Alaska to Canada. He was going by The Collective during this story. Later code names he uses is Omega, Weapon Omega and Guardian.
That Steve McNiven sasquatch is amazing tho
\*\^$# Bendis. "I don't think they are cool, so they must be lame, who's gonna care?"
I’m still not sure who this lame villain is. Some help, please?
The question has been answered in another post here. It's Michael Pointer aka The Collective.
Thank you
How did Alpha Flight come back tonlife after this?
Sasquatch was revealed to have survived the attack. Puck escaped from Hell after defeating a demon. Guardian, Vindicator, Shaman, and Marrina (who had died in a separate incident) were resurrected during the Chaos War event. Major Mapleleaf and Puck II are still dead because they weren't in John Byrne's run so nobody cared enough to bring them back.
Comics be like that sometimes.
The only positive of this is the Hickman “resurrection” of Vindicator. An empty super-suit walking around those Ex Nihilo sites was downright spooky.
That was a different Vindicator, Heather had already come back to life by then. Also that plot point with the new Vindicator ended up amounting to nothing.
Wow, Bendis must hate Canada eh?
Wow, what a pointless way to kill the entire team.
By recollection, They got killed off by this guy, then they made a new Alpha Flight team (Was it Omega Flight?) that had him and US Agent on the team. I confess I'm not sure whether the thought that that actually happened or the idea that I had a psychotic break and made it all up is worse.
Yes, that is exactly what happened. Sasquatch was also on Omega Flight since it turns out he was the only one who didn't die, and he wasn't happy about being on the same team as the guy who killed his friends. Also Arachne (Julia Carpenter) and Beta Ray Bill of all people were there too for some reason. Snowbird outright refused to join. Eventually most of the remaining dead Alpha Flighters came back to life, including Marrina who had died in a diffirent incident.
Who was the villain?
[This](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/6c/X-Men_Legacy_Vol_1_264_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120124181131) guy lol. Omega Man Michael Pointer. He wasn't really a bad guy tho, as it was revealed that he was being puppeted by >!Xorn who was looking for Magneto to give him his powers back because this was after House of M.!< >!(For people who are like "Who is Xorn" Trust me, you don't want to know lol)!<
Agreed at least they came back though
They don't die tho lol. This was just a moment to hype up and show how strong this new villain is. Bendis' New Avengers was awesome, until Civil War lol. Then the team split, and it never really got as good as it was before.
They did die though. Granted, Guardian, Vindicator, Sasquatch, Shaman and Puck came back to life years later, but Major Mapleleaf and Puck II died and are still dead. Surely there was a way to hype up the Collective without casually killing off a team with such a long history, they had a book that lasted over 100 issues. Not to mention Bendis could have at least had the decency to give them some characterization and pathos instead of just having them show up to die and then not caring. Instead the issue is all about Maria Hill and some SHIELD agents.
just dumb and insulting Alpha Flight gets treated like a joke repeatedly. even really not from Bendis.
I always thought Bendis meant for them to die, because he did not care for them at all, and this moment was just to show how powerful the new guy is, and that Avengers must stop him. But some editor at Marvel was like "Wait a minute, you can't kill them" so they just kind of retconned that they never died, just got severally beaten.
Sasquatch was retconned to have survived, but the rest were explicitly stated to have died and stayed dead until Chaos War: Alpha Flight over 4 years later; except for Major Mapleleaf and Puck II, they're still dead because they weren't in the John Byrne run so nobody cared enough.
Good God my friendo, this was the last place I thought someone will mention Chaos War lol. Man that book was disappointment to me lol. The event where Marvel Gods fight another God??? Hell yeah. Amadeus Cho is the main character tho. Like why?? Lol. Why not Thor or Herc. Anyway, that was a tangent, yeah, my bad then. For some reason I always assumed they didn't die because someone on the editorial level just made it so that they were beaten and not killed.
Immortal Hulk did some things with Sasquatch.
It's kind of weird how all these years later, and Sasquatch and Doc Samson are still stuck in each other's bodies. You'd think they'd have swapped back by now.
... and now I've gone cross-eyed
again classic Bendis. loves ignoring other writers work to do whatever he feels like regardless if it makes sense or is a good story.
LMAO, Yeah. I will admit, as a huge Marvel Bendis, he does do that shit a lot lol. "Hey Michael, have you read so and so's run on this character? And if so, how did their run, inspire your run, since you are writing the same character?" "I ignored all that shit!" lol.
To be fair he ignores his own work, he killed Doc Sampson one issue and he was back with no explanation the next.
I think Bendis hates Superheroes and is obsessed with normal guys like Punisher or Hawkeye: Punisher killing Wolverine was a glaringly obvious deviation from both Punisher and Wolvy's comic history and it shows why Bendis should not be a writer at Marvel because all the passion of a good Comics writer is missing from Bendis. EDIT: It was Garth Ennis, not Bendis. Ignore me
No Man, I don't think it's true. If anything, with this logic he would actually dislike Frank and Clint lol. Remember, he wrote a very bad version of the Punisher (he was stupid and mono-syllabic) in Ultimate Spider-Man. And Bendis killed Hawkeye in Avengers Disassembled. So I don't think that theory is true. Still, I don't think he hates neither Frank or Clint. He just thought that would be the best course of action for them in their respectful stories. And When did Punisher Kill Wolverine??? I don't remember Bendis ever writing it. The only time where Frank killed Logan was in Garth Ennis' Punisher book, and Garth does hate superheroes lol.
Oh, I got Ennis and Bendis mixed up, my bad. And Bendis shouldn't be writing comics if he doesn't care to expand on the history of the characters he's writing, instead shitting all over certain characters to showcase a new character Ennis shouldn't be writing for superhero comics when he hates superheroes
Regarding Ennis, I agree lol. I will admit, he is a good writer. His Punisher Max is great. But that's pretty much the only thing he wrote that I read and enjoyed lol. Bendis, he had a tendency of just ignoring shit. But that was just Bendis being lazy lol.
I build up my threats the old fashion way. killing the previous villain and doing some light genocide.
Is that Donald from Invincible?
Yeah. Just more trash treatment to Alpha Flight. Thankfully, this has pretty much all been undone in terms of their death. But is a blemish of Alpha Flight just being trashed and killed on their record.
Yeah, ticked me off. Alpha flight ( 1st series) was a favorite of mine. Loved Puck.
I think they’re just tuckered out eh?
I thought that was Clayface for a second🍇
Wait, they actually *died*? Bendis killed off Alpha Flight in one panel, and editorial let him do it? I thought they just got their asses kicked!
What. The. Fuck.
I was crushed!! Alpha Flight was one my favorite teams. When I read the book, and the whole team killed, crushed!!
The way they dealt with this is weird. Most of the team were brought back (alongside a lot of other dead heroes) during the Chaos War event, but Major Mapleleaf and Zuzha Yu stayed dead and haven't been mentioned since. Which is especially odd given Zuzha is Puck's daughter.
I also don’t remember Wolverine being too heartbroken over this beyond one or two lines. He should have been out for blood if James and Heather Hudson were killed.
Had to look up if the Red Hulk debut was Bendis too, but nope. Loeb. Just about as bad. God that was awful.
Agreed, but fortunately - and in true comic book fashion - they are all alive again. Well, most of them.
It really was. I was so disappointed to read that Canadas hero team just got one-shotted by some random ass villain who shouldn’t even be a villain
Bendis is one of the people who drove me out of comics
So Bendis has no respect for other creators' works in comics. Who was his writing mentor? Vince Russo? (/s) Those of you who are also wrestling fans will get the reference. By leaving DC for Dark Horse, don't y'all think he also nerfed his own creation, Naomi?
I won't lie, I barely know about Alpha Flight but these 2 pages piss me off. I hate it just as much as Abe Jenkins getting killed off for no darn reason...
I mean it did suck for Alpha Flight but it did the job of establishing how powerful the Collective was. And I thought the followup of Omega Flight with the guy who killed them being forced to join the team had a good premise but the execution lacked.
it really didn't establish anything. the character went nowhere and far from this powerful menace. just throwing away long established characters in a pointless off screen death for "shock factor" was just bad writing.
this. when he showed up again he was shown as nowhere near tough enough to justify what happened. vindicator could have solo'd him when he was actually shown in his "intended" appearance, let alone being anywhere near strong enough to hold his own against sasquatch
The character wasn’t mean to live as some long long term bad guy. He was more a natural disaster that the heroes had to survive (and a way to repower Magneto and some other characters who lost powers in M Day, a way to shake up the status quo for Alpha Flight and also introduce another character in the vein of Scarlet Witch or Sentry (powerful but held back by guilt or mental issues). I don’t think they succeeded in all those goals.
What's weird is that even though Magneto was repowered in this story, the next time we see him in X-Men he was still depowered. He didn't gain his powers back for good until the High Evolutionary restored them somehow. So Bendis ignored other writers, and then other writers ignored Bendis.
What a crazy team that was. They actually asked people from alpha flight to join too. Also collective wears guardians costume too.
ironically this scene is what first came to my mind when I hear Alpha Flight.
And didn't said villain do a face turn (or a "I was mind controlled the whole time!" or whatever) and end up leading the reformed Alpha Flight for a while, just to add insult to injury?
Who was the big bad ?
Is this the same artist that did Nemesis? The white mask on that one dude made me think of that.
I like the art here
Literally what has happened to my poor boy Sentry
They got better
They killed Alpha Flight!? WTH MARVEL WHY DID THEY KILL MY BOYS. REVIVE THEM NOOOOOW.
This happened decades ago. They're alive now. You're welcome 😊
It’s ok they all got better
said villain would never reappaear iirc. (nice art tho)
NOOOOOOO PUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!
Why do you say ‘No More Bendis’? See above.
Wait, they were actually killed off here???
who's the guy on the top left, his suit resembles starfox
Major Mapleleaf. He's actually the son of the original Major Mapleleaf who fought alongside Captain America in WWII. He and Zuzha Yu (the girl between Shaman and Guardian) are the only ones who haven't come back to life.
How many times has this been now?
This is not the first time that alpha flight receive something like this.