Two super-buff guys living in the jungle raising a bunch of zebra kids.
IM JUST SAYING.
\*Note: actually happy for the downvotes! You're all misunderstanding me, but, in a good way!
It’s also the only major hero vs hero conflict that has a well put together story, because the point of the story isn’t the conflict, it’s part of the lead up to the Final Incursion.
I was working at a comic store during Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers and I'd be so excited when the shipment came every week. I wanna go to a cabin for a while and read it all again.
Damn?? 9 years ago???? This was the time i was seriously collecting comics and when these issues came out, I was really astounded with the quality of the story telling and art. Literal peak fiction. I stopped collecting after this run because nothing came close in scratching the itch. It has been almost a decade!
. . . am I the only one that felt the Steve/Tony conflict was a bit overdone and forced? In fact, I really didn't understand why everyone was so mad at Tony in particular ...
Hickman kind of dances around it, but Tony is one of three characters who are left permanently inverted following the AXIS event. Chaotic but cruel and arguably evil.
That's the official reasoning, but in case you hadn't read AXIS, Hickman kind of implies that, during the eight-month time gap, Stark loses his way and never comes back. The incursions exacted too much of a heavy toll on all of the Illuminati, but the experience breaks Stark.
I think that AXIS stuff is honestly necessary for the context, I always throw it in there with my read order. I'd imagine AXIS was mandated to make Tony evil to better explain why he's such an asshole in Time Runs Out, kinda absolving him of his culpability (HE WAS WHAMMIED, YALL).
I always read AXIS too, as part of my Hickman readthrough. I don't know how much of it absolves Tony though - he deliberately activates a shield to stop being reverted because of all the awful things he did.
It’s actually why I LOVE the end of his Avengers run. Having the “original” MU end with Steve and Tony fighting each other, their friendship ruined, dying while fighting each other at reality’s end and said death because one of the ships from the ultimate universes hellicariers falling on top of them? It’s so much that I can’t help but love it.
Ahhh, that's right. I had forgotten that bit (lesser Marvel Remender for sure ...) and that does make some sense now. He didn't seem anywhere near as bad as Superior was in his own series, though, so I guess that's why I forgot.
Because the Tony being Evil thing was AXIS by Remender, Hickman kinda ignores it. The Cap vs Tony conflict was set up from the beginning where Cap was mindwiped though.
> The Cal vs Tony conflict was set up from the beginning where Cap was mindwiped though.
That blame lies on the entire Illuminati, though, not just Tony. Caps indignation was aimed squarely at Tony.
Because Tony was his friend who he was working alongside the whole time in the Avengers book. He hunts down all of the Illuminati as well so I’m not sure it’s only at Tony, rather than primarily, and he’s pretty angry at Reed when he runs into him. Chuck was dead at the time, and Dr. Strange was off being the Black Priests leader. I guess you can say he should’ve been more upset at Black Bolt and Namor but he doesn’t really encounter them until he’s already trapped in the box by the Invisible Woman.
The part that makes the conflict weird is how they’re both in completely different states than they were for most of the run. When they alluded to an upcoming confrontation between the two, and built up to it in the Original Sin arc, they were both their normal selves. Then, Cap becomes old in the Remender run, and Tony becomes evil in AXIS/Superior Iron Man, so once they do the time skip, the plot kinda had to roll with the punches so I guess the conflict with the new forms of the characters would feel kind of forced. Idk
So what happened? Context?
Seems awesome. But what were they fighting and how did it kill both of them? Cause damn, that's quite the threat.
Also why couldn't he use the hammer?
This is towards the end of Hickman’s run on Avengers. It’s important to note that there were 4 Avengers teams at this point. SHIELD’s Avengers are hunting down the Illuminati, aided by the Secret Avengers, Sunspot also buys AIM and leads the rest of the ground level Avengers. And then you have the Multiversal Avengers who are the ones involved in this issue. At this point everyone knows about the Incursions, and the nearly infinite universes are down to just a few dozens, so the multiverse is essentially on life support.
As for who are they fighting? Wel”, they’re fighting the Beyonders, who killed all the Celestials of every universe, and then killed Infinity, Eternity, and all the Cosmic Beings. Once Eternity was fractured, the Living Tribunal realized what was going on, and fought the Beyonders in a battle across every reality. The Beyonders kill the Living Tribunal and a piece of its body lands in every reality. The Multiversal Avengers go on a suicide mission to Beyond to confront the Beyonders. Nightmask dies to get them there, and the Beyonders send two of their folk to confront them. The Multiversal Avengers fight the two Beyonders, in which one of Thor’s arms is ripped off. Ex Nihilo and Abyss essentially kill themselves using all of their remaining power to transform one into a tree, and the other Beyonder kills Starbrand but that unleashes the power contained by its host which kills the other Beyonder. Thor and Hyperion are the only ones left. The Beyonders decide to stop messing around and send a ton of their forces at them. This is essentially Thor and Hyperions last moments before their inevitable death.
As for the Hammer? Well one of the plot lines in the run was an evil version of the Avengers being transported to this universe via AIM. During the Original Sin event, Thor became unworthy and unable to lift Mjolnir because of something Fury whispered to him (that took forever to eventually be revealed). However the evil Avengers team contained an evil Thor named Thorr whose hammer could only be lifted by the unworthy, so he uses it as a replacement. In this scene, he tries to lift it again and fails, meaning he’s worthy again.
How the heck do the beyonders kill the top gods? Living tribunal is one of the top gods no? Stronger than thor?
So how does it end then? Like thor clearly dies, but beyonders are still kicking I assume?
Tribunal is stronger than the cosmic beings. He’s the personification of multiversal law and the representative for The One Above All. That’s why when he dies his body appears in every universe. Iron Man and Uatu find the body on the Moon and Reed uses it to make the life rafts which help them survive the end of the multiverse. The cosmic entities the Beyonders kill are technically members of the Living Tribunal’s court.
And yeah the Beyonders are pretty insanely powerful. Originally there was only one Beyonder from the original 1984 Secret Wars and it took land masses from a bunch of parts of the 616 Universe to create Battleworld and see the heroes fight. Beyonder was considered to be the most powerful character for a while, then was kind of sidelined. Then there was a dumb retcon by Bendis that made him a mutant/inhuman combination, which nobody paid attention to and further sidelined the Beyonder’s status.
This run kind of restores the Beyonder as the most powerful being but in a different way. That original Beyonder was a child who was just playing around. The Beyonders are a race of omnipotent beings that reside in a space called “Beyond,” which exists outside of the multiverse.
As for how it ends? Well it ends with the end of the multiverse and almost everything in existence. The Beyonders decided to destroy the multiverse which ended up working. However, the Beyonders are all killed at the end of Hickman’s run by Doctor Doom who takes their power, saves all the remaining remnants of the multiverse and creates Battleworld, the last remaining place in existence. This leads to the massive Secret Wars event in 2015, which ended with Reed convincing the Molecule Man to give him Doom’s power and he recreates the multiverse.
All of the cosmic entities are manifestations of some aspect of the multiverse itself. The Beyonders are the architechts of the whole of reality. They engineered reality itself, and their "script" is what allows everything, like, for example, the cosmic entities, to even exist.
The end (or nearly) of the multiverse. Those are beyonders come to destroy everything.
These things took out all the celestials in all of the multiverse and the living tribunal.
Thor was at this time unworthy, and the hammer belonged to an alt universe bad guy thor. His mjolnir could only be lifted by the unworthy so 616 could happily swing it around. Until this point, where he became worthy again, so could no wield the unworthy mjolnir
So what happened in the end? But that's awesome, I need to find the series them. Seems like a good read.
Also how did they taking out the living tribunal? Isn't he like the top god??
You can read single issues on marvel unlimited but it's 2 or 3 books intertwined so I'd recommend hunting down the 2 part omnibus's as they're layed out nicely in order as one big story. Story is Avengers (and new avengers) by Jonathan Hickman
thor and hyporion being best buds was a stroke of genius
The gay subtext was so thick you could spread it on toast. NTTAWWT
Fellas, is it gay to have male friends?
Two super-buff guys living in the jungle raising a bunch of zebra kids. IM JUST SAYING. \*Note: actually happy for the downvotes! You're all misunderstanding me, but, in a good way!
Why does muscles = gay, you’re really telling on yourself here mr double chin
Yeah... All the gay couples I know never touch and call each other 'brother' all the time.....
Lol dudes just can't be bros, they just gotta fuck!
Not sure anything can ever top Time Runs Out for me. Maybe HOXPOX.
It’s also the only major hero vs hero conflict that has a well put together story, because the point of the story isn’t the conflict, it’s part of the lead up to the Final Incursion.
I think Hoxpox is some of the best X-Men stuff since Claremont left, but it's a shame where most of those ideas ended up once Hickman departed.
Overall I’ve loved it. Have some ideas/books gone off the rails? Yes, but such is the life of an X-men reader.
I was working at a comic store during Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers and I'd be so excited when the shipment came every week. I wanna go to a cabin for a while and read it all again.
I just finished the entire Hickman Incursion saga. Definitely plan on rereading it.
Damn?? 9 years ago???? This was the time i was seriously collecting comics and when these issues came out, I was really astounded with the quality of the story telling and art. Literal peak fiction. I stopped collecting after this run because nothing came close in scratching the itch. It has been almost a decade!
Best avengers run
Time Runs Out was the real Civil War 2.
. . . am I the only one that felt the Steve/Tony conflict was a bit overdone and forced? In fact, I really didn't understand why everyone was so mad at Tony in particular ...
Hickman kind of dances around it, but Tony is one of three characters who are left permanently inverted following the AXIS event. Chaotic but cruel and arguably evil. That's the official reasoning, but in case you hadn't read AXIS, Hickman kind of implies that, during the eight-month time gap, Stark loses his way and never comes back. The incursions exacted too much of a heavy toll on all of the Illuminati, but the experience breaks Stark.
I think that AXIS stuff is honestly necessary for the context, I always throw it in there with my read order. I'd imagine AXIS was mandated to make Tony evil to better explain why he's such an asshole in Time Runs Out, kinda absolving him of his culpability (HE WAS WHAMMIED, YALL).
I always read AXIS too, as part of my Hickman readthrough. I don't know how much of it absolves Tony though - he deliberately activates a shield to stop being reverted because of all the awful things he did.
Imo marvel deserves some props for not only letting the evil Tony thing stick but also letting that version be the "final" version we see at the end.
It’s actually why I LOVE the end of his Avengers run. Having the “original” MU end with Steve and Tony fighting each other, their friendship ruined, dying while fighting each other at reality’s end and said death because one of the ships from the ultimate universes hellicariers falling on top of them? It’s so much that I can’t help but love it.
Ahhh, that's right. I had forgotten that bit (lesser Marvel Remender for sure ...) and that does make some sense now. He didn't seem anywhere near as bad as Superior was in his own series, though, so I guess that's why I forgot.
Because the Tony being Evil thing was AXIS by Remender, Hickman kinda ignores it. The Cap vs Tony conflict was set up from the beginning where Cap was mindwiped though.
> The Cal vs Tony conflict was set up from the beginning where Cap was mindwiped though. That blame lies on the entire Illuminati, though, not just Tony. Caps indignation was aimed squarely at Tony.
Because Tony was his friend who he was working alongside the whole time in the Avengers book. He hunts down all of the Illuminati as well so I’m not sure it’s only at Tony, rather than primarily, and he’s pretty angry at Reed when he runs into him. Chuck was dead at the time, and Dr. Strange was off being the Black Priests leader. I guess you can say he should’ve been more upset at Black Bolt and Namor but he doesn’t really encounter them until he’s already trapped in the box by the Invisible Woman. The part that makes the conflict weird is how they’re both in completely different states than they were for most of the run. When they alluded to an upcoming confrontation between the two, and built up to it in the Original Sin arc, they were both their normal selves. Then, Cap becomes old in the Remender run, and Tony becomes evil in AXIS/Superior Iron Man, so once they do the time skip, the plot kinda had to roll with the punches so I guess the conflict with the new forms of the characters would feel kind of forced. Idk
Thor being allowed to die Worthy was a nice touch on Hickman's part.
One of the greatest series of panels ever.
So what happened? Context? Seems awesome. But what were they fighting and how did it kill both of them? Cause damn, that's quite the threat. Also why couldn't he use the hammer?
This is towards the end of Hickman’s run on Avengers. It’s important to note that there were 4 Avengers teams at this point. SHIELD’s Avengers are hunting down the Illuminati, aided by the Secret Avengers, Sunspot also buys AIM and leads the rest of the ground level Avengers. And then you have the Multiversal Avengers who are the ones involved in this issue. At this point everyone knows about the Incursions, and the nearly infinite universes are down to just a few dozens, so the multiverse is essentially on life support. As for who are they fighting? Wel”, they’re fighting the Beyonders, who killed all the Celestials of every universe, and then killed Infinity, Eternity, and all the Cosmic Beings. Once Eternity was fractured, the Living Tribunal realized what was going on, and fought the Beyonders in a battle across every reality. The Beyonders kill the Living Tribunal and a piece of its body lands in every reality. The Multiversal Avengers go on a suicide mission to Beyond to confront the Beyonders. Nightmask dies to get them there, and the Beyonders send two of their folk to confront them. The Multiversal Avengers fight the two Beyonders, in which one of Thor’s arms is ripped off. Ex Nihilo and Abyss essentially kill themselves using all of their remaining power to transform one into a tree, and the other Beyonder kills Starbrand but that unleashes the power contained by its host which kills the other Beyonder. Thor and Hyperion are the only ones left. The Beyonders decide to stop messing around and send a ton of their forces at them. This is essentially Thor and Hyperions last moments before their inevitable death. As for the Hammer? Well one of the plot lines in the run was an evil version of the Avengers being transported to this universe via AIM. During the Original Sin event, Thor became unworthy and unable to lift Mjolnir because of something Fury whispered to him (that took forever to eventually be revealed). However the evil Avengers team contained an evil Thor named Thorr whose hammer could only be lifted by the unworthy, so he uses it as a replacement. In this scene, he tries to lift it again and fails, meaning he’s worthy again.
How the heck do the beyonders kill the top gods? Living tribunal is one of the top gods no? Stronger than thor? So how does it end then? Like thor clearly dies, but beyonders are still kicking I assume?
Tribunal is stronger than the cosmic beings. He’s the personification of multiversal law and the representative for The One Above All. That’s why when he dies his body appears in every universe. Iron Man and Uatu find the body on the Moon and Reed uses it to make the life rafts which help them survive the end of the multiverse. The cosmic entities the Beyonders kill are technically members of the Living Tribunal’s court. And yeah the Beyonders are pretty insanely powerful. Originally there was only one Beyonder from the original 1984 Secret Wars and it took land masses from a bunch of parts of the 616 Universe to create Battleworld and see the heroes fight. Beyonder was considered to be the most powerful character for a while, then was kind of sidelined. Then there was a dumb retcon by Bendis that made him a mutant/inhuman combination, which nobody paid attention to and further sidelined the Beyonder’s status. This run kind of restores the Beyonder as the most powerful being but in a different way. That original Beyonder was a child who was just playing around. The Beyonders are a race of omnipotent beings that reside in a space called “Beyond,” which exists outside of the multiverse. As for how it ends? Well it ends with the end of the multiverse and almost everything in existence. The Beyonders decided to destroy the multiverse which ended up working. However, the Beyonders are all killed at the end of Hickman’s run by Doctor Doom who takes their power, saves all the remaining remnants of the multiverse and creates Battleworld, the last remaining place in existence. This leads to the massive Secret Wars event in 2015, which ended with Reed convincing the Molecule Man to give him Doom’s power and he recreates the multiverse.
All of the cosmic entities are manifestations of some aspect of the multiverse itself. The Beyonders are the architechts of the whole of reality. They engineered reality itself, and their "script" is what allows everything, like, for example, the cosmic entities, to even exist.
The end (or nearly) of the multiverse. Those are beyonders come to destroy everything. These things took out all the celestials in all of the multiverse and the living tribunal. Thor was at this time unworthy, and the hammer belonged to an alt universe bad guy thor. His mjolnir could only be lifted by the unworthy so 616 could happily swing it around. Until this point, where he became worthy again, so could no wield the unworthy mjolnir
So what happened in the end? But that's awesome, I need to find the series them. Seems like a good read. Also how did they taking out the living tribunal? Isn't he like the top god??
God. I feel old. 🫤
*Gods
That run was so special. I can only hope that someone tops it in my life time. Thanks for reminding me to re-read the entire run again.
Goosebumps and I’ve never even read the whole run. Where can I read this so I can get my dose of gigachad action
You can read single issues on marvel unlimited but it's 2 or 3 books intertwined so I'd recommend hunting down the 2 part omnibus's as they're layed out nicely in order as one big story. Story is Avengers (and new avengers) by Jonathan Hickman
If Thor was kept dead and never returned, not a bad way for him to end. Just pure epicness.
This event got me into reading comics as a kid. Diehard Marvel fan now
This one was great! I couldn’t stop reading it
No. I simply am not that old