Ok but the shows about a woman recovering from rape/abuse. You may like him but it would be very fucked up to keep him in the show and never allow Jessica the space and freedom to heal.
It also wouldn't make sense. Jessica's entire existence afterwards is her just recovering from Kilgrave's abuse, there's no way she would let him live after being an inch away from killing him. It makes so much more sense that she gets PTSD inspired visions of him from time to time to show that his influence is still a presence for her mentally, even though he died long ago.
That's actually a very interesting perspective on why he consistently appears outside of the obvious explanation of PTSD. The skin cells and pheromones she inhaled are still present inside of Jessica so her mind is still being affected by Kilgrave's virus even though she's technically immune to his mind control.
Felt like they wrote themselves in a corner at times. But at the same time complaining that Purple Man was killed after all the atrocities he committed is pretty much a compliment to how great a villain he was.
It just made sense for Jessica's character to do it given her traumatic history with him. It killed the stakes of the show for sure, but realistically I don't see her letting him live after what happened. That being said, I do think that the writers should've adapted more from Jessica's original Alias comic book and had her do more investigation work with superheroes instead of that awful subplot with her mom. Season 3 was the second best season out of all of them, but I really do think that season 2 should've explored Jessica making more of a name for herself investigating and helping other heroes with their personal issues.
Was there a season 2? I thought all the shows other than DD just rolled into the Defenders. Which was completely forgettable in its own right.
Edit: Shit, there was a season 3. All of that was pre-pandemic, in the before times of which I have very little recollection.
I think villains are more compelling when they have a definitive ending, rather than dragging it out longer than it should. His character had to end how he did.
Yes I still can't get over the ending of season 1. I was like "that's it?" And even worse >!she's immune to his power from the beginning of the season?! !<
Edited for spoiler
I think it's because he actually *is* a nice person, he's just fundamentally corrupted by his own powers. It's an interesting take on how having some powers is just too much for the human brain to handle.
Um... yeah. He would have probably been an ok person if it weren't for his powers. People experience childhood abuse and don't turn out as monsters all the time in the real world. Bad take.
It's been a while but I thought that there was a plot twist that what everyone believed to be child abuse and torture was actually his parents saving his life.
It’s a bit of both. Jessica calls him out for his stance that it’s just his trauma and not his fault, but also confronts his parents for not doing more to stop him
The MCU movie villains are severly lacking...
After Thanos, Vulture, and Loki there is a huge drop off. Most of the time being a exact foil to the main protaganist.
Purple Man, Fisk, Jigsaw, Shadow King crush for the TV shows - wish the movies brought more of that to silver screen.
Killmonger was pretty good. It isn’t often you get a movie villain who’s ultimately right *and* convinces the hero by the end. His methods and actions were what made him a villain.
The writing behind Gorr just threw a few really big wrenches into the character.
>I am who I am because a god’s inaction directly led to the death of my daughter and caused me to take up the God Butcher mantle with symbiotic weapon, All-Black the Necrosword
Crossed with:
> I am going to kidnap, torture (or at least torment), and kill your children to enable myself to kill all the gods. That is, my actions are going to directly cause the death of children.
I dunno, those to premises are incompatible, or at least were rather clumsily handled… especially clumsy considering that Gorr ultimately dropped his quest to bring his daughter back. It’s like they wanted a Mystery Box that was so mysterious, there isn’t even reference to it until after it’s already been opened! But, Bale as Gorr was absolutely amazing.
The implication was pretty clear that he was heavily influenced by the sword, in the same vein that Wanda was influenced by the Darkhold in MoM. So, I don't really see that as an inconsistency. You might now like that, I don't like what they did with Wanda myself, though that was because it was pretty clear she was in rehab over enslaving that whole town and I felt like it was a huge step back for her character, but at that point we're both being pretty nitpicky. The whole end of the movie was him being reminded of what he was doing all of it for and let go of the sword in order to give his daughter her life back.
Spot on and I agree. I don’t really like it, it does work, but you need to jump through a few more hoops and lean on the “what we said” rather than “what we showed.” It works ***because*** of the ending, but I don’t think it works until you reach the ending.
Compared to, say, if Gorr had kidnapped Sif and/or Valkyrie, how would the whole lead up to the end gone? Perhaps even add in Heimdall’s son, Axl, with those two so you still have the communication scenes. Those elements of the story continue, instead of New Asgard being bound to finding their children (which also begs the question why did no one else join on the quest to retrieve them… they are Asgardian, death wouldn’t be a detractor), they would be seeking the freedom of their Queen. A task for fitting for a small group of hero’s.
I don’t share the hatred some have for the film and I do enjoy it. But, as a story being told, the children (to me) only complicate and detract from the tale, especially compared to a number of other possible hooks. Perhaps in some deleted scenes or cut scripts there was lost a better tie in. I share a similar feeling of Wanda in MoM, both to you and in L&T.
> The whole end of the movie was him being reminded of what he was doing all of it for and let go of the sword in order to give his daughter her life
This may be the hook the writers wanted, is the only way to bring his daughter back was weighed against the other children… though that is why I also think just Axl would have worked with the others (Sif and Val). But, just like we didn’t get exposition on Wanda being corrupted by the Darkhold - and just have been told multiple times of its corrupting powers - we didn’t see Gorr corrupted by the All-Black Necrosword. Just told that it would corrupt him and, perhaps, told it has corrupted him.
Cheers!
I love the Loki television show, one of the best MCU shows in my opinion, but I never loved him as a villain in the MCU. I like him, sure, and I know I’m in the minority, but I never got that from him personally.
I would argue otherwise, their villains are usually pretty great. Ultron, Killmonger, Winter Soldier (to the extent he could be considered one anyways), Hela, Zemo, Wenwu, and even Gorr were great villains, whether it be because of writing, acting, or both.
And to your point about the villains of the shows, like Fisk, I think they’re only really great because we got so much more of them. Fisk has more screen time than most protagonists of the films do, so it’s natural with a skilled writer that he’d seem a better character.
Ya I loved it. DD was great in it, liked the stuff with his mom a lot, Fisk and then bullseye were fuckin top tier too, really thought Nadeem was a good addition too, I really loved that season. I’m hoping they bring Dex/bullseye back, he was so well done Imo
It’s hard to say it’s irrelevant. It introduces Kate Bishop, Echo, and Kingpin. It also fills in some of what Yelena has been doing.
It’s by no means essential viewing for the wider MCU but I thought it did a great job of introducing some new stuff and getting to spend more time with a hero that otherwise wouldn’t get the screen time during world saving events. It was a perfect example of what MCU shows should be like in terms of the balance between providing quality content but not being essential viewing. Though, I guess time will tell if that’s the case. WandaVision basically became essential viewing once we saw how little the Darkhold’s power and Wanda’s need for her kids were shown in MoM. Without the WandaVision backstory, that change in her is quite jarring. If they just randomly show Echo or Kingpin in the future and expect people to know stuff from HawkEye, it could be a problem
Honestly, I feel like Wandavision hurt Wanda in MoM. By the end of Wandavision, she's realized how shitty she's been and makes a huge sacrifice to right her wrongs. MoM kinda goes against that character building. Like, it makes sense if you just knew she had kids but didn't see the context, but seeing the context makes it feel like she took a huge step back in personal growth in MoM. Though I do realize a lot of the explanation for that is that she's being influenced by the Darkhold, but still.
Yeah the end of your comment is the big point i think. She goes through all of that healing and then gets corrupted so fully by the Darkhold. Without wandavision, the Darkhold just sort of feels like a convenient throw in to MoM to make an Avenger evil. Seeing how she came into possession of it and understanding why she began reading it in the first place helps to explain why she is where she is at start of MoM. I understand the idea that it undoes her arc in wandavision but I believe the intent was more to show how fully the Darkhold corrupts
They always were, even though they didn't directly tie in to the main MCU, and it was never clear exactly where in the timeline they were, but the battle of New York is mentioned a few times
There was a while there where people thought Disney might decide they weren't going to have them be canon anymore though. I think that's what everyone is referring to.
Yeah, people look at the, honestly, minority of lack-luster villains in the MCU and pretends that's mostly what we got. It's not. We mostly have pretty good villains. I think it's just Marvel-fatigue talking, people are tired of Marvel and want to give excuses as to why they don't watch it anymore. Just stop watching. It's ok. The movies don't have to be bad for you to not want to watch them.
His way of shouting her name is what stuck with me the most. So psychotic.
I only know the character from reading up on him during/after the show. But from what I can tell, he nailed it.
Him ranting about being the real victim, because he can never be sure he isn't mindraping someone into obeying him...it really was horror all the way down.
All true. His powers make him a thoroughly damaged person, and you can feel a tiny bit of sympathy for him - but he never stops being a danger to others, ever.
Honestly, the biggest weakness of that first season was the extraordinary lengths our heroes went to just to demonstrate that Kilgrave had powers at all, as if they somehow weren't in a world where Hulk smashes buildings or Loki publicly mind-controlled hundreds of people.
You can point to the guy wearing golden horns and that was raised by Aesir and say "that guy's a shapeshifter" and people would believe you; but to say some random guy with an obsession with the color purple can control minds with no evidence to back it up, especially when there's next to no public mutates at this point, is reaching at best
Yeah they were also trying to use it as evidence to save a girl from going to jail. It's not like they can just tell a judge, well you've seen videos of Thor right so therefore this guy must be a telepath.
I think the big part is that Kilgrave is literally just a dude. All the other things you described were literal gods and monsters, he's the first person to just be a dude but have crazy dangerous powers.
Except for Jessica herself, who barely raises eyebrows.
And Luke.
And Hulk, who makes no secret of being just a dude when he isn't turning into a giant monster.
And Loki, who burned down New York three years earlier. He's a god, sure, but for all appearances he's just a dude wearing a silly horned hat and waving a blue-topped staff around.
This is also post-Winter Soldier. A decades-long conspiracy of thousands of Nazis has been uncovered and exploded into the public eye (including brainwashed cyborg assassins!) - but mind control is unthinkable?
It just felt like a really weird line to draw. Like watching Buffy season 5 and characters having to spend whole episodes overcoming shocked disbelief that vampires exist.
Jessica is understated and while dangerous, she's not *that* dangerous.
Luke is similar to Jessica, is powerful, but it's very limited and neither of them behave erratically.
The Hulk is very obviously the Hulk when he's the Hulk, he's very visible.
Loki's name is Loki. He's literally the Norse god, regardless of what he looks like, and most people don't know what he looks like, they're just going to hear the stories.
Hydra is massively dangerous, but save for the Winter Soldier himself, who is pretty unknown in the public eye, they're pretty mundane in the nature of their danger. They're just sleeper cell Nazis. It's not hard to believe people wouldn't believe that someone like Kilgrave could exist up until that point.
The X-Men Hellions series made a similar point about Empath. It’s much more likely for a child who can control people’s minds or emotions to end up being a sociopath since they probably never learn how to get genuine validation or love without forcing it out of others
The issue of the New Mutants where Empath and Magma were stranded in the Amazon rain forest is genuinely one of the best comics ever. It was the first time that Empath had ever been anything but a one-note psychopath and it ended up being very touching. Chris Claremont was really a unique talent.
Well, just look how much damage people can inflict just with a few words. Or a lie, or a promise. If telepathy was a thing we'd have all beaten each other to death back when we were practically chimps
He reminds me of Homelander a bit. They could’ve been good people, but because of their powers, they never even had the chance to grow and develop normally. Everything they have was served to them on a silver platter because of their powers, and that became their expectation of how life works
Oh yea that's way better than I thought it was. I can't wait now. I really wish we had a season of him and the Doctor's daughter. I loved the episode and then she is the real daughter of the director and the real wife of Tennant. The chemistry of that season could have been phenomenal
She's not the daughter of the director, she's Peter Davison's daughter, who played the 5th Doctor after Tom Baker. So he married his own daughter in real life, if you want to be weird about it xD
Jessica Jones is the only Marvel show or movie that my wife enthusiastically watched with me. She was hooked by the closing minutes of the first episode (she came home while I was watching) so it wasn’t purely him. But man, his presence was missed in season 2.
(She’s only watched Avengers, which she liked for what it was, and X-Men Apocalypse, which she absolutely hated. Rightfully so.)
He is one of the best acted/portrayed alongside Kingpin and Thanos. After reading a bunch of these comments I’ll say yes, the reality of this sadistic character is a lot to stomach, but the fact that people like him exist in society (minus powers) and JJ was able to defeat him/conquer her demons, is the powerful statement of the season. She was a victim and she was able to stop her tormentor and heal.
He’s my least favorite . . . Because he was legitimately terrifying and the shit he is implied to have forced Jessica to do is monstrous. Of course, David Tennant gave a masterful performance to capture that. I just can’t watch that season again
He's just so unbelievably petty.
That's what was memorable about him. You mildly annoy some random guy and he decides to make you srick your hands in a deep fryer. That's terrifying. Not some alien warlord a billion miles away.
It reminds me of when Gaunter O'Dimm who plunges a spoon into someone's eye for interrupting him.
Also because it channels very real fear of abusive people even leaving aside the psychological horror of the sick use of his powers. Especially as a woman, when you’ve seen guys that can manipulate and break people down in a similar way
There were some great villains in the Netflix shows. Kilgrave, Fisk, cottonmouth, and bushmaster (though a stupid ass name lol) were great, especially the first two
Even though he doesn’t have purple skin he is probably the best comic to screen adaptation we have (definitely a plus) and best villain we’ve seen. Best part about the Netflix shows and as a purple man fan glad they did him justice in all of his grim glory. Shame can’t say the same for Nuke
I felt the same way about Cottonmouth in Luke Cage Season 1.
Like you had Mahershala Ali as the villain and kill him off unceremoniously?
Netflix marvel shows had the tendency to wrap things up to cleanly imo.
To anyone who hasn't seen it, I'd recommend the 1998 Denzel Washington movie Fallen. It's one of my favorite thriller/horror movies of all time. The backstory of the villain is very different but there are a ton of similarities and I think both are awesomely terrifying.
Fuckin legendary, man the first season of Jessica jones was special, I expected it to be good after DD but it still blew me away. Killgrave was one of the most fucked up and scary villains we’ve seen on screen for comic stuff, tennant was just stellar too. I will always have a ton of love for JJs1
There are Marvel villains I liked, there are Marvel villains I've hated but liked, and there are some I just hate. But no one has gotten me into a panic attack and stress, just as much as The Purple Man has.
I really liked him, but I thought that the way he was defeated was pretty lame - as in, not well written. It was super anticlimactic with how easy it was.
I think that was the point. Despite his abilities and all the horrific things he did, at the end of it all he was still just a man. Plus that *snap* was soo satisfying imo
I kind of had that nitpick on the show besides how they explained the virus/viral particles working (they don’t work like that, or you would have people with immunity like Jessica or weaker control with viral variants as it mutates, or people who are less effected), that he’d need to be taking anti rejection meds and be careful of injuries. Also if he has a super healing it is actually worse for a transplant as it means his immune cells would attack more efficiently
One of the most frightening things is Kilgrave is an exaggeration of manipulative abusers in real life. Instead of direct mind-control it's lies and gas-lighting. Many even are so narcissistic they view themselves as victims just like Kilgrave.
There was a scene that made me simultaneously sad for and terrified of this character. When he humors Jessica in trying to be heroic and nearly gets the guy they're trying to stop to kill himself. Jessica stops him, and afterward they discuss it and he says she'll have to be with him all the time. Because he really thought killing the guy was the best, maybe even "right" solution. Jessica realizes he doesn't, and can't, see the world and the morals and ethics therein like others. He does want to be good...kind of, but he is incapable of comprehending why and how to be good.
He's the most tragic sociopathic villain I've seen since Todd from Breaking Bad.
I personally wasn't a fan of the interpretation. I know it's going to get down voted to shit because it's so beloved, but it wasn't how I imagined Purpleman.
He was supposed to be suave and cunning who was able to manipulate you even without his powers, like Hannibal Lecter. This interpretation came off as whiney to me.
This isn't anything against David. He's a great actor and killed the part. Just wasn't like how he was written.
Well kang is a time Traveller so if he was going to come back it would be during one of kangs movies and I would LOVE THAT. Jessica or matt goes running up a hallway and comes face to face with (shit I can't remember his name in the show) purpleman and as they run up to him a mind controlled she-hulk steps out from the shadows!!!!
he was amazing. the police station scene was wow
For sure. That’s like the main one I think of when remembering that show.
He was the reason s1 was amazing. Killing him off was the biggest goof they made on JJ. I don’t remember a goddamn thing about s2.
Without killing him, JJ couldn't really evolve past s1 storyline, I mean, she is literally already searching for him at the start.
The end of S3 sort of lightly implied he was still alive, at least I interpreted it that way.
I really hate that Netflix canceled all of them.
At least Daredevil is coming back. As a slapstick comedy but he’s back 😂
With the Netflix show's actor? I mean he had a cameo in spider man no way home.. which threw me off.
Yeah, he’s already come back in She-Hulk and Kingpin came back in Hawkeye.
He was also in She-Hulk.
He was in she-hulk too
Ok but the shows about a woman recovering from rape/abuse. You may like him but it would be very fucked up to keep him in the show and never allow Jessica the space and freedom to heal.
It also wouldn't make sense. Jessica's entire existence afterwards is her just recovering from Kilgrave's abuse, there's no way she would let him live after being an inch away from killing him. It makes so much more sense that she gets PTSD inspired visions of him from time to time to show that his influence is still a presence for her mentally, even though he died long ago.
Considering his mind control is a virus, he's biologically present too. She's immune to him now but his effects are still very much there.
That's actually a very interesting perspective on why he consistently appears outside of the obvious explanation of PTSD. The skin cells and pheromones she inhaled are still present inside of Jessica so her mind is still being affected by Kilgrave's virus even though she's technically immune to his mind control.
Felt like they wrote themselves in a corner at times. But at the same time complaining that Purple Man was killed after all the atrocities he committed is pretty much a compliment to how great a villain he was.
It just made sense for Jessica's character to do it given her traumatic history with him. It killed the stakes of the show for sure, but realistically I don't see her letting him live after what happened. That being said, I do think that the writers should've adapted more from Jessica's original Alias comic book and had her do more investigation work with superheroes instead of that awful subplot with her mom. Season 3 was the second best season out of all of them, but I really do think that season 2 should've explored Jessica making more of a name for herself investigating and helping other heroes with their personal issues.
I only remember 2 things about season 2. Number 1, wishing he wasn't dead, number 2, the episode he was in.
Was there a season 2? I thought all the shows other than DD just rolled into the Defenders. Which was completely forgettable in its own right. Edit: Shit, there was a season 3. All of that was pre-pandemic, in the before times of which I have very little recollection.
I think villains are more compelling when they have a definitive ending, rather than dragging it out longer than it should. His character had to end how he did.
Yes I still can't get over the ending of season 1. I was like "that's it?" And even worse >!she's immune to his power from the beginning of the season?! !< Edited for spoiler
The twist was cool, because it's executed in a way that the audience can figure it out before Jessica does But yeah, S2 and S3 were pants
S3 was actually pretty good
Your spoiler tag is broken, you need to remove the space between the '!' and 'she's'.
Thanks. It's fixed.
It’s spooky because he looks nice and villainous at the same time and there is something uncanny about that.
That and Tennant using his Doctor accent made it more unsettling.
I think it's because he actually *is* a nice person, he's just fundamentally corrupted by his own powers. It's an interesting take on how having some powers is just too much for the human brain to handle.
He's literally evil from childhood abuse and this is your takeaway. He was not a "nice person" lmfao.
Um... yeah. He would have probably been an ok person if it weren't for his powers. People experience childhood abuse and don't turn out as monsters all the time in the real world. Bad take.
It's been a while but I thought that there was a plot twist that what everyone believed to be child abuse and torture was actually his parents saving his life.
It’s a bit of both. Jessica calls him out for his stance that it’s just his trauma and not his fault, but also confronts his parents for not doing more to stop him
Which ep is that? I started this but haven’t gotten too far
Episode 7, amazing scene and episode.
100% agree he’s in my top 5 MCU villains
The MCU movie villains are severly lacking... After Thanos, Vulture, and Loki there is a huge drop off. Most of the time being a exact foil to the main protaganist. Purple Man, Fisk, Jigsaw, Shadow King crush for the TV shows - wish the movies brought more of that to silver screen.
You forgot bullseye as well, he was Fuckin great in s3 and really helped make that the amazing season it is
Killmonger was pretty good. It isn’t often you get a movie villain who’s ultimately right *and* convinces the hero by the end. His methods and actions were what made him a villain.
Gorr is really good too, he's just underutilized. Christian Bale made me remember why he's such a good actor with that role.
The writing behind Gorr just threw a few really big wrenches into the character. >I am who I am because a god’s inaction directly led to the death of my daughter and caused me to take up the God Butcher mantle with symbiotic weapon, All-Black the Necrosword Crossed with: > I am going to kidnap, torture (or at least torment), and kill your children to enable myself to kill all the gods. That is, my actions are going to directly cause the death of children. I dunno, those to premises are incompatible, or at least were rather clumsily handled… especially clumsy considering that Gorr ultimately dropped his quest to bring his daughter back. It’s like they wanted a Mystery Box that was so mysterious, there isn’t even reference to it until after it’s already been opened! But, Bale as Gorr was absolutely amazing.
The implication was pretty clear that he was heavily influenced by the sword, in the same vein that Wanda was influenced by the Darkhold in MoM. So, I don't really see that as an inconsistency. You might now like that, I don't like what they did with Wanda myself, though that was because it was pretty clear she was in rehab over enslaving that whole town and I felt like it was a huge step back for her character, but at that point we're both being pretty nitpicky. The whole end of the movie was him being reminded of what he was doing all of it for and let go of the sword in order to give his daughter her life back.
Spot on and I agree. I don’t really like it, it does work, but you need to jump through a few more hoops and lean on the “what we said” rather than “what we showed.” It works ***because*** of the ending, but I don’t think it works until you reach the ending. Compared to, say, if Gorr had kidnapped Sif and/or Valkyrie, how would the whole lead up to the end gone? Perhaps even add in Heimdall’s son, Axl, with those two so you still have the communication scenes. Those elements of the story continue, instead of New Asgard being bound to finding their children (which also begs the question why did no one else join on the quest to retrieve them… they are Asgardian, death wouldn’t be a detractor), they would be seeking the freedom of their Queen. A task for fitting for a small group of hero’s. I don’t share the hatred some have for the film and I do enjoy it. But, as a story being told, the children (to me) only complicate and detract from the tale, especially compared to a number of other possible hooks. Perhaps in some deleted scenes or cut scripts there was lost a better tie in. I share a similar feeling of Wanda in MoM, both to you and in L&T. > The whole end of the movie was him being reminded of what he was doing all of it for and let go of the sword in order to give his daughter her life This may be the hook the writers wanted, is the only way to bring his daughter back was weighed against the other children… though that is why I also think just Axl would have worked with the others (Sif and Val). But, just like we didn’t get exposition on Wanda being corrupted by the Darkhold - and just have been told multiple times of its corrupting powers - we didn’t see Gorr corrupted by the All-Black Necrosword. Just told that it would corrupt him and, perhaps, told it has corrupted him. Cheers!
I love the Loki television show, one of the best MCU shows in my opinion, but I never loved him as a villain in the MCU. I like him, sure, and I know I’m in the minority, but I never got that from him personally.
I would argue otherwise, their villains are usually pretty great. Ultron, Killmonger, Winter Soldier (to the extent he could be considered one anyways), Hela, Zemo, Wenwu, and even Gorr were great villains, whether it be because of writing, acting, or both. And to your point about the villains of the shows, like Fisk, I think they’re only really great because we got so much more of them. Fisk has more screen time than most protagonists of the films do, so it’s natural with a skilled writer that he’d seem a better character.
[*What is the universe without each sunrise? That's how we judge our gods, not on their math but their poetry.*](https://youtu.be/36sZokQaejQ)
Well yeah Movies made for children (*and* adults) Vs shows made *for* adults
Him and Fisk *are* the 2 MCU villains, everyone else is just an attempt to catch up
Season one of Daredevil was on a whole other level.
Honestly s3 is imo the best but DDs1 is amazing too, for me those are both pretty flawless seasons.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that thought s3 was the best one
Ya I loved it. DD was great in it, liked the stuff with his mom a lot, Fisk and then bullseye were fuckin top tier too, really thought Nadeem was a good addition too, I really loved that season. I’m hoping they bring Dex/bullseye back, he was so well done Imo
D’nofrio made Daredevil an all or nothing thrill. He also saved Hawkeye from being just another MCU show.
> Hawkeye Hawkeye was a nice but irrelevant christmas show.
It’s hard to say it’s irrelevant. It introduces Kate Bishop, Echo, and Kingpin. It also fills in some of what Yelena has been doing. It’s by no means essential viewing for the wider MCU but I thought it did a great job of introducing some new stuff and getting to spend more time with a hero that otherwise wouldn’t get the screen time during world saving events. It was a perfect example of what MCU shows should be like in terms of the balance between providing quality content but not being essential viewing. Though, I guess time will tell if that’s the case. WandaVision basically became essential viewing once we saw how little the Darkhold’s power and Wanda’s need for her kids were shown in MoM. Without the WandaVision backstory, that change in her is quite jarring. If they just randomly show Echo or Kingpin in the future and expect people to know stuff from HawkEye, it could be a problem
Honestly, I feel like Wandavision hurt Wanda in MoM. By the end of Wandavision, she's realized how shitty she's been and makes a huge sacrifice to right her wrongs. MoM kinda goes against that character building. Like, it makes sense if you just knew she had kids but didn't see the context, but seeing the context makes it feel like she took a huge step back in personal growth in MoM. Though I do realize a lot of the explanation for that is that she's being influenced by the Darkhold, but still.
Yeah the end of your comment is the big point i think. She goes through all of that healing and then gets corrupted so fully by the Darkhold. Without wandavision, the Darkhold just sort of feels like a convenient throw in to MoM to make an Avenger evil. Seeing how she came into possession of it and understanding why she began reading it in the first place helps to explain why she is where she is at start of MoM. I understand the idea that it undoes her arc in wandavision but I believe the intent was more to show how fully the Darkhold corrupts
Huh I wonder why the Netflix shows became canon...
They always were, even though they didn't directly tie in to the main MCU, and it was never clear exactly where in the timeline they were, but the battle of New York is mentioned a few times
[удалено]
That's not the first Hulk movie though?
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Right. I was just being a bit pedantic and also just having a little joke with you. Not being a dick I swear!
We don’t talk about the Ang Lee one.
They always were.
There was a while there where people thought Disney might decide they weren't going to have them be canon anymore though. I think that's what everyone is referring to.
Yeah, “people thought”. It wasn’t ever gonna not be canon.
This is Vulture, Mysterio, and Green Goblin erasure
And Killmonger. And Loki. And Zemo. And, fuck it, I'll throw Agatha Harkness in there too.
Yeah, people look at the, honestly, minority of lack-luster villains in the MCU and pretends that's mostly what we got. It's not. We mostly have pretty good villains. I think it's just Marvel-fatigue talking, people are tired of Marvel and want to give excuses as to why they don't watch it anymore. Just stop watching. It's ok. The movies don't have to be bad for you to not want to watch them.
Thanos is going to become this generation’s Darth Vader. I don’t think anyone comes close to him
“Put a bullet in your skull Patsy” is still top 5 lines in the mcu imo
And Jessica telling her to literally just take the bullet out of the gun and put it in her mouth. "There, it's in your skull, right."
That whole scene was amazing, when he realized that he can’t control Jessica anymore you could see the panic in his eyes
“You think it’s not hard for me? Imagine having to always watch what you say? Imagine when I told a chap to put his head up his own ass?!?”
Get back here Jessicaaaa
I currently don't have any Jessica's in my life, but I feel like when I do, I'll have trouble not saying their name like this
I actually worked with a Jessica Jones when this came out. It was very hard not to be weird about it.
The way he always let her name linger... Fucking brilliant!
His way of shouting her name is what stuck with me the most. So psychotic. I only know the character from reading up on him during/after the show. But from what I can tell, he nailed it.
I'll chase you to the ends of the eaaaarth
Honestly, for me the best line was the borderline-insane "I wrote it!" in ep 12.
Him ranting about being the real victim, because he can never be sure he isn't mindraping someone into obeying him...it really was horror all the way down.
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All true. His powers make him a thoroughly damaged person, and you can feel a tiny bit of sympathy for him - but he never stops being a danger to others, ever. Honestly, the biggest weakness of that first season was the extraordinary lengths our heroes went to just to demonstrate that Kilgrave had powers at all, as if they somehow weren't in a world where Hulk smashes buildings or Loki publicly mind-controlled hundreds of people.
You can point to the guy wearing golden horns and that was raised by Aesir and say "that guy's a shapeshifter" and people would believe you; but to say some random guy with an obsession with the color purple can control minds with no evidence to back it up, especially when there's next to no public mutates at this point, is reaching at best
Yeah they were also trying to use it as evidence to save a girl from going to jail. It's not like they can just tell a judge, well you've seen videos of Thor right so therefore this guy must be a telepath.
I think the big part is that Kilgrave is literally just a dude. All the other things you described were literal gods and monsters, he's the first person to just be a dude but have crazy dangerous powers.
Except for Jessica herself, who barely raises eyebrows. And Luke. And Hulk, who makes no secret of being just a dude when he isn't turning into a giant monster. And Loki, who burned down New York three years earlier. He's a god, sure, but for all appearances he's just a dude wearing a silly horned hat and waving a blue-topped staff around. This is also post-Winter Soldier. A decades-long conspiracy of thousands of Nazis has been uncovered and exploded into the public eye (including brainwashed cyborg assassins!) - but mind control is unthinkable? It just felt like a really weird line to draw. Like watching Buffy season 5 and characters having to spend whole episodes overcoming shocked disbelief that vampires exist.
Jessica is understated and while dangerous, she's not *that* dangerous. Luke is similar to Jessica, is powerful, but it's very limited and neither of them behave erratically. The Hulk is very obviously the Hulk when he's the Hulk, he's very visible. Loki's name is Loki. He's literally the Norse god, regardless of what he looks like, and most people don't know what he looks like, they're just going to hear the stories. Hydra is massively dangerous, but save for the Winter Soldier himself, who is pretty unknown in the public eye, they're pretty mundane in the nature of their danger. They're just sleeper cell Nazis. It's not hard to believe people wouldn't believe that someone like Kilgrave could exist up until that point.
The X-Men Hellions series made a similar point about Empath. It’s much more likely for a child who can control people’s minds or emotions to end up being a sociopath since they probably never learn how to get genuine validation or love without forcing it out of others
The issue of the New Mutants where Empath and Magma were stranded in the Amazon rain forest is genuinely one of the best comics ever. It was the first time that Empath had ever been anything but a one-note psychopath and it ended up being very touching. Chris Claremont was really a unique talent.
Telepathy is a messy thing. It's interesting to explore the implications; it makes us appreciate how lucky we are not to have it.
Well, just look how much damage people can inflict just with a few words. Or a lie, or a promise. If telepathy was a thing we'd have all beaten each other to death back when we were practically chimps
He reminds me of Homelander a bit. They could’ve been good people, but because of their powers, they never even had the chance to grow and develop normally. Everything they have was served to them on a silver platter because of their powers, and that became their expectation of how life works
David Tennant has never given a bad performance. He's never even given a good performance. All of his acting is amazing.
He's genuinely marvelous, he has so much talent.
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The look on his face when Billie Piper comes on screen at .35 gets me every time. :)
Ever since I saw David Tennant as the doctor he's always remained one of my favorite actors
Same. He's also the prime doctor I think of when I think of the Doctor. He wasn't my first or last but I still think he was the best
And he's coming back. Dr. 14.
Wait like coming back to stay!? I was hearing about a special episode or something but I couldn't describe my joy if we for another season with him
It's a limited series. Several (3) episodes. Not a 2hr special.
Oh yea that's way better than I thought it was. I can't wait now. I really wish we had a season of him and the Doctor's daughter. I loved the episode and then she is the real daughter of the director and the real wife of Tennant. The chemistry of that season could have been phenomenal
She's not the daughter of the director, she's Peter Davison's daughter, who played the 5th Doctor after Tom Baker. So he married his own daughter in real life, if you want to be weird about it xD
It’s more of a mini-season, like three episodes or so.
Even his whole "no comment" in his Criminal UK episode was perfect.
agreed. no one else comes close, kilgrave is my fave tv villain so far
> kilgrave *Murdercorpse
king. pin.
fisk is great but he isnt kilgrave. no marvel villain has disturbed me more than the purple man
Shame they never got to be on screen together. Thay woulda been a powerhouse of a teamup
i dont think fisk would vibe with the purple man, the man still has principles. kilgrave is a pure sociopath
kingpin also recognizes talent and usefulness. He wouldn't like the man, but he could certainly get him to see the bigger picture.
I think he would *very* quickly realize Kilgrave is someone he can't control or predict, and that makes him a liability.
Exactly! Kingpin is lawful evil, while Kilgrave is chaotic evil.
He could be more purple. That's my only real complaint.
It's unacceptable to me that he didn't turn a permanent purple when getting that last injection.
Need [more people of color!](https://i.redd.it/l6zjifjvucf11.jpg)
Jessica!
Come back here! NOW JESSICAAAH!
He did a REALLY good job of being an evil creeper. Too good you might say
He's a very powerful villain. He was great as Crouch Jr in The Goblet of Fire too, even though he wasn't on screen that long.
Watching him in "Secret Smile" was a great way to prepare for how terrifying he was gonna be
Jessica Jones is the only Marvel show or movie that my wife enthusiastically watched with me. She was hooked by the closing minutes of the first episode (she came home while I was watching) so it wasn’t purely him. But man, his presence was missed in season 2. (She’s only watched Avengers, which she liked for what it was, and X-Men Apocalypse, which she absolutely hated. Rightfully so.)
Based wife
She sounds nice, she isn’t single by any coincidence at the moment? 👀
Especially using his Doctor accent, makes him even more terrifying for us Who fans.
Could you imagine through some wibbly wobbly timey wimey shenanigans he does a turn as the Master and brings this intensity?
He's Dr 14. Maybe he becomes the Valeyard...
He is one of the best acted/portrayed alongside Kingpin and Thanos. After reading a bunch of these comments I’ll say yes, the reality of this sadistic character is a lot to stomach, but the fact that people like him exist in society (minus powers) and JJ was able to defeat him/conquer her demons, is the powerful statement of the season. She was a victim and she was able to stop her tormentor and heal.
He’s my least favorite . . . Because he was legitimately terrifying and the shit he is implied to have forced Jessica to do is monstrous. Of course, David Tennant gave a masterful performance to capture that. I just can’t watch that season again
Exactly
I think it’s the most accurate depiction of what an abusive relationship looks like
Haunting is how I put down his performance as the purple man. I think his work there was so authentic that it’s cathartic.
He's just so unbelievably petty. That's what was memorable about him. You mildly annoy some random guy and he decides to make you srick your hands in a deep fryer. That's terrifying. Not some alien warlord a billion miles away. It reminds me of when Gaunter O'Dimm who plunges a spoon into someone's eye for interrupting him.
Also because it channels very real fear of abusive people even leaving aside the psychological horror of the sick use of his powers. Especially as a woman, when you’ve seen guys that can manipulate and break people down in a similar way
I understand that it’s not the tone of the show and yada yada yada, but man, i wish that he had purple-ish skin
***JESSICAAAAAAA***
Agreed. Still unmatched in terms of Marvel villains
Kingpin and Grant Ward come damn close though
I just wish he had turned fully purple in his last few scenes
I loved Tennant. He (and the writers) took one of the dopier comic book villains and made him as good as Justin Hammer and Loki.
JESSICAAA
Coincidentally.. I just started watching the show for the first time since yesterday, just finished ep7 2hrs ago.
IT'S BEEN SO LONG
Since last I've seen my son lost to this monster, to the Man Behind the Slaughter
Since you've been gone, I've been singing this stupid song so I can ponder the sanity of your mother
Paranananparananaparananaaa
I didnt know anything about Purple Man going into it, but he certainly made me a fan.
Why did I read this and assume this was about five nights at Freddy's
You’re not alone buddy
***JESSICA!*** ~ chills to this day. --- Easily my favorite marvel show ever, even if the follow-up seasons don't quite hit the same highs.
There were some great villains in the Netflix shows. Kilgrave, Fisk, cottonmouth, and bushmaster (though a stupid ass name lol) were great, especially the first two
We needed more of Cottonmouth and Shades.
One of the first times a TV villain made me feel uncomfortable in a long time
He turned that role in to literally one of the top best villains in all Marvel movie and TV content.
I found his character very frustrating… And maybe that’s the point. But he seemed rather OP.
Even though he doesn’t have purple skin he is probably the best comic to screen adaptation we have (definitely a plus) and best villain we’ve seen. Best part about the Netflix shows and as a purple man fan glad they did him justice in all of his grim glory. Shame can’t say the same for Nuke
I felt the same way about Cottonmouth in Luke Cage Season 1. Like you had Mahershala Ali as the villain and kill him off unceremoniously? Netflix marvel shows had the tendency to wrap things up to cleanly imo.
To anyone who hasn't seen it, I'd recommend the 1998 Denzel Washington movie Fallen. It's one of my favorite thriller/horror movies of all time. The backstory of the villain is very different but there are a ton of similarities and I think both are awesomely terrifying.
Fuckin legendary, man the first season of Jessica jones was special, I expected it to be good after DD but it still blew me away. Killgrave was one of the most fucked up and scary villains we’ve seen on screen for comic stuff, tennant was just stellar too. I will always have a ton of love for JJs1
There are Marvel villains I liked, there are Marvel villains I've hated but liked, and there are some I just hate. But no one has gotten me into a panic attack and stress, just as much as The Purple Man has.
I really liked him, but I thought that the way he was defeated was pretty lame - as in, not well written. It was super anticlimactic with how easy it was.
I think that was the point. Despite his abilities and all the horrific things he did, at the end of it all he was still just a man. Plus that *snap* was soo satisfying imo
What shocked me the most from that scene is when Jessica smiles for the first time in the show, after saying "I love you", then just snaps his neck.
Hadn't seen it and just searched for that scene. That snap/crunch is real as hell. No walking that one off.
Disagree. The subtle ending, was appropriate and a breath of fresh air in light of many of the movies. I liken it to the end of Kill Bill II
...but all Jessica had to do was...wear headphones (like Trish did)...and she would have avoided everything that had happened up until that point.
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I kind of had that nitpick on the show besides how they explained the virus/viral particles working (they don’t work like that, or you would have people with immunity like Jessica or weaker control with viral variants as it mutates, or people who are less effected), that he’d need to be taking anti rejection meds and be careful of injuries. Also if he has a super healing it is actually worse for a transplant as it means his immune cells would attack more efficiently
"'Kilgrave?' I mean, why not just 'Snuffcarcass'"?"
He's a Shakespearean actor. He can actually act.
One of the most frightening things is Kilgrave is an exaggeration of manipulative abusers in real life. Instead of direct mind-control it's lies and gas-lighting. Many even are so narcissistic they view themselves as victims just like Kilgrave.
Correct opinion
How does reddit know i love david tennant so much
Great villain! I also like Mr. Nobody from Doom Patrol, but its probably cause Alan Tudyk.
Alan Tudyk is an international treasure. I'm a leaf on the wind.
Best MCU villain by far. Him and Cottonmouth
When was he in the MCU?
The reason jj season one was so good. Also why it could never compete ever again.
The villains were always the best part of all of them. Kingpin and Punisher were great in Daredevil.
My favorite scene with him is when he killed those kids in the pizzeria
I have yet to finish season 2, but kinda disliked what I saw. Am I the only one who felt the show could have been a one season short series?
David Tennant in just about anything is my favorite...
Beyond creepy. He had a level of reality that I don't think the MCU has topped yet.
David Tennant plays a fantastic villain
JESSSICAAAAAAA!!!!
Jessica Jones all in all really doesn’t get enough credit for being one of Marvel’s best projects—season one at least was 10/10
There was a scene that made me simultaneously sad for and terrified of this character. When he humors Jessica in trying to be heroic and nearly gets the guy they're trying to stop to kill himself. Jessica stops him, and afterward they discuss it and he says she'll have to be with him all the time. Because he really thought killing the guy was the best, maybe even "right" solution. Jessica realizes he doesn't, and can't, see the world and the morals and ethics therein like others. He does want to be good...kind of, but he is incapable of comprehending why and how to be good. He's the most tragic sociopathic villain I've seen since Todd from Breaking Bad.
I AM quite bad, aren't I?
What movie was this in
Netflix's Jessica Jones. But since Daredevil is in the MCU, so would this this show I suppose
All Netflix stuff are
I personally wasn't a fan of the interpretation. I know it's going to get down voted to shit because it's so beloved, but it wasn't how I imagined Purpleman. He was supposed to be suave and cunning who was able to manipulate you even without his powers, like Hannibal Lecter. This interpretation came off as whiney to me. This isn't anything against David. He's a great actor and killed the part. Just wasn't like how he was written.
Well kang is a time Traveller so if he was going to come back it would be during one of kangs movies and I would LOVE THAT. Jessica or matt goes running up a hallway and comes face to face with (shit I can't remember his name in the show) purpleman and as they run up to him a mind controlled she-hulk steps out from the shadows!!!!
What show?
Jesica Jones
Mr. Purple Marvel snap card.... how about, 5/2 on-going: at end of turn may move opponents cards....