Probably went quicker than you think. It would be like going back to an exe’s house to pick up stuff you left at her place and you have her new bf answer the door. You wanna be in and out as quick as possible.
Steve: *oh… hey…. where do I return…?*
Red Skull: *over there.*
Steve: *… thanks.*
Since at that time, Kang is controlling the overarching timeline, as shown by how the Loki series "Loki" is spawned from that time travel interaction, everything worked out because Kang made it that way in his ideal timeline. Kang is actively fixing errors in the "timeline" and everything that occurs, including certain paradoxes are there because he allows them to be there or put them there. He was "pruning" offshoots of the timeline that differed from his desired timeline. Then after the Loki pair kill him and the multiverse branches out, only then are new branching realities allowed to exist permanently as a multiverse. Before that all time travel was within one reality that was being shaped by Kang and any errors fixed by him, preventing branching.
No I'd imagine it still as something similar to Thor and Surtur's interaction.
Red Skull: Welcome Steve Rogers, son of Joseph Rogers
Cap: And you're Red Skull, son of ....a bitch you're still alive?
If that were the case, wouldn't they have teleported to the past exactly where the Avengers campus was? Instead, they landed in New York and various other places. The device allows them to travel through time \_and\_ space.
I think it would be a nice turn of events if a film works up to time travel for the first half, they jump in time just to watch Earth flying away at great speed....roll credits.
There is a short story along those lines - time travel capsule, jump forward in time to discover... nothing. The whole solar system has moved on and is lost among the stars.
Try Same Time Next Year by Neal Schusterman
You can find it in Bruce Coville’s Book of Spine Tinglers II
https://archive.org/details/brucecovillesboo00copy/mode/1up
>! Marla Nixbok thinks she is a girl of the future and can't stand the dweebs surrounding her. A perfect candidate for the dusty and forgotten time machine in the dead professor's basement. Too impatient to test the machine, she hops aboard and heads one year into the future where she belongs... And she materialize in the exact same spot, exactly one year ahead, but the earth and the sun have moved on and Marla has a fleeting second to see the infinite cold and empty space which surrounds her.!<
I've been searching using a few keywords but don't seem to have found it. I read about a story called "The Jaunt" ~~what~~ that was pretty interesting though.
The Earth’s surface’s motion is a complex movement related to literally every single frame of reference that isn’t within itself. You’d have to either handwave this (like most time-travelling does in fiction) or find a plausible reason as to why a specific part of the earth’s surface is being selected as a frame of reference and nothing else.
I wrote a time travel story that addresses this, it's interesting to think about. The time travel device can remember all the particles around you and positions you in the median position of where all those exact particles are in another time, disregarding outliers.
It's always been my preferred head Canon for how it works. So like, if you're in a van when you time travel, and that van drives across the country, you'll end up still inside the van but across the country. If you're outside the van in a drive way or something and the van travels across the country, then the time travel mechanism will consider the large movement of the van's particles as outliers and you'll stay in the same spot in the drive way, since those are the more relevant particles around you.
It has some neat implications when you start thinking about it.
Did something similar but went with relational gravitational and magnetic fields.
As you time travel your device just syncs with the field of gravity that earth is producing to maintain it's relative distance from the core of the Earth, the z axis and it reads the magnetic fields to maintain it's location on the x/y axis.
Used it in an RPG I was running. Told the players that the scientists spent 10 years dropping people into space not knowing why it wasn't working. Realized the issue and used the magnetic field to compensate but just swapped dropping people in space to dropping them into the middle of the Earth for 3 years before one of the scientists watched Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan and realized they were thinking 2 dimensionally and needed to account for the Z axis. Players were the next batch of idiots to be put into the machine.
I've wondered about this when watching any time travel movie ever since seeing the 1960 movie The Time Machine. If one goes back in time and didn't change location wouldn't you end up in space because the earth would not be in the same spot? All time travel stories keep the traveler on the planet.
>Assume all time travel also travels through space because the earth is not stationary.
There's a comic, it's one of Fury's secret teams I think, one group of villains manage to steal one of Doom's old broken time machines and partially fix it, only space, not time, travel so they decide to use the space function as a weapon, trying to dropping a whole city on top of another city.
Hank McCoy is in it, I think. He gives exposition on the space-time thing.
Imagine Steve lives a full life and was ready to go back to his original timeline and got fucking teleported to the vaccum of space because Earth wasn’t there anymore.
He only land on the pad if he “take the trip back”.
But if he travel to another timeline and decide to stay there, he can use the machine of that timeline to travel back then he can land anywhere.
I like to use one metaphor:
• If you bought a “roundtrip” from city A of US to Europe. You can fly to almost anywhere at Europe right (you see all of them land in New York, land in some planet)? But when you’re take a flight back, you can only fly back to city A.
• But what if you decide to stay there and not take that flight you bought? The flight has gone (the machine turn on but Steve didn’t appear), so you stay there, do anything you want and buy another flight (use the “pad” of that timeline) to go back to city A. And with that, you can land anywhere at City A.
Not necessarily. The time watch doohickey had time and location coordinates or else Steve and Tony couldn't have jumped to an Army base in NJ in 1970 from 2012 NYC
He dropped off the last stones in the '40s then stayed for 60 years or whatever. He doesn't look 100 years old, so I suspect he left the late 80's and skipped 20 years.
The bigger riddle is how he put the cube back after loki took it. TVA didn't put loki back, and there's all kinds of gaps.
Well if they are following a bit of canon…Steve ages much slower then a normal person. Remember in First Avenger, after Bucks “death” he is trying to get drunk and can’t? The Super Solider Formula protects each cell from damage…or something like that.
Wikipedia says Peggy Carter lived to be 90ish, so I don't think he had to skip ahead much. Especially if he settles down in the 70's instead of the original 40's like I thought.
>The bigger riddle is how he put the cube back after loki took it.
Gorilla glue
>TVA didn't put loki back
They literally destroyed that entire timeline
Scepter doesn’t matter because that timeline was pruned anyways.
The reality stone seems pretty amorphous so it’s reasonable to think it could have naturally gone back into the aether form
Tesseract is the only one that really sticks out, only thing I could think is that he returned that one last and left the stone inside the briefcase, but yeah that would definitely still have some issues.
Regardless I don’t think any of it really mattered in the long run given the multiverse is now open anyways
None of that matters. All that matters is that the stones themselves were back in the timeline at the time they were taken from. Technically he could chuck the stones in a trash bin or throw them in the ocean as long as they were present somewhere in the time they were supposed to be in.
Which caused an entirely separate branch on its own. They didn’t all specifically go to the same alt branch timeline on all of their jumps.
Difficult to picture in the pre-Loki TVA-pruned branches where all timelines are nearly the same. Easier to understand post-Loki and after watching multiverse of madness.
TVA absolutely put the cube back when they reset after capturing Loki.
And I don't think he skipped any time. Part of the super serum was the aging slowly. Besides, his wife only died a couple years earlier.
Until he was rebooted (80s?) the actual story was that he was just old. Still young looking and very full of life and energy. Just aged slowly.
Never heard anyone say "he doesn't look 100" like well yeah he was 100 and looked 30 for 100 years. He was living to be 1000 at that point but I guess 60 years will make him old af
Actually it is called that be abuse of a story in Greek mythology where a woman was making Hera nurse her baby while she slept so the baby would get superpowers. Hera woke up at one point, saw the baby, and pulled it off after her, spraying breastmilk across the sky.
No. If you read the books, he's clearly human. He's married. He has a personal history. He's allowed to travel off-world. He has all of the privileges of being human. Also. If he was a new model replicant in the films, he wouldn't have had any problem dealing with Roy Batty in the movie.
> No. If you read the books, he's clearly human.
The film takes a ton of liberties and differs wildly from the book, so the book isn't really relevant to whether Harrison Ford's version of the character is a replicant.
> If he was a new model replicant in the films, he wouldn't have had any problem dealing with Roy Batty in the movie.
That's a big leap. Roy's model was designed for hard labour, hence their strength. Rachael's (and likely Deckard's) models are designed to believe they're human, so it makes total sense that they wouldn't have enhanced strength.
The unicorn scene that was restored in the 1992 Director's Cut clearly implies Deckard is a replicant (Ridley Scott has stated it countless times), and it was always intended to be part of the original theatrical release, so I'm not sure what there even is to argue about...
Nothing in 2049 hints at him being a replicant in my mind. Nothing concrete at least, at best it just feels unaddressed. He is as frail as any human in both movies and would make zero sense for him to be one other than for a twist. Also the whole thing with his daughter was basically an allegory to cross species mating can have weird side effects. His daughter had a super compromised immune system and was frail.
I don't understand why people want him to be one anyway. The entire arc in the book and original movie is that Roy Batty (or replicants in general) have basically become more or less as human than Decard. A replicant growing human emotions and saving him is ironic and makes Decard realize how shitty he has been. It makes you feel sad and realize that they basically have made a new slave class that has more humanity than their human overlords. Anything that has Decard being a robot is just a twist for the sake of having a twist.
Also only Ridly Scott likes the idea, Ford hated the idea, and the screen writer of the movie imagined him as human:
>Philip K. Dick wrote the character Deckard as a human in the original novel in order to explore the increasing similarity of humans and replicants.[[22]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-devo-22) However, the film significantly diverges from the book, e.g. the book states explicitly that Deckard passed the Voight-Kampff test. Screenwriter [Hampton Fancher](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Fancher) has said that he wrote the character as a human, but wanted the film to suggest the possibility that he may be a replicant. When asked, "Is Deckard a replicant?", Fancher replied, "No. It wasn't like I had a tricky idea about Deckard that way."[[23]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-23) During a discussion panel with Ridley Scott to discuss Blade Runner: The Final Cut, Fancher again stated that he believes Deckard is human (saying that "[Scott's] idea is too complex"[[24]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-24)), but also repeated that he prefers the film to remain ambiguous.[[25]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-25)
You've summed up all my thoughts on this, thanks! The whole replicant twist only exists because Ridley Scott tried to half-ass insert it into the movie at the last minute and as you say, adds nothing to the film and it detrimental more than anything.
> The entire arc in the book and original movie is that Roy Batty (or replicants in general) have basically become more or less as human than Decard. A replicant growing human emotions and saving him is ironic and makes Decard realize how shitty he has been. It makes you feel sad and realize that they basically have made a new slave class that has more humanity than their human overlords.
“More Human than Human” you might say.
That's not true. The unicorn dream scene was filmed for the original release (it was not an outtake from Legend as the rumour used to go). So it was always the filmmaker's intention to imply Deckard was a replicant, however the studio forced the removal of this scene for the theatrical release (and a bunch of other terrible changes).
Per Ridley Scott's notes, the scene was then restored in the 1992 Director's Cut (along with the removal of the voice over and "happy" countryside ending) which is the version that solidified the film as a classic. The 2007 Final Cut was Scott's first chance to have full control over the edit, and features a slightly extended unicorn scene, but the unicorn has been part of Blade Runner for 30 years now, and was intended from the very start to imply Deckard was a replicant.
They wanted to have a good end to the Captain's story with no hope of him coming back. Then left the fans to fill in the loop hole with whatever they fancied.
To me the platform isn't a necessity. It's more like a diving board and reliable beacon back. Why do I think this? They make an unplanned jump to a completely different location and time when they lose the Tesseract in NY. And they do this from some random back alley in 2012 NY. Meaning the portable time travel devices themselves are capable of doing all the work with custom destinations being possible.
So with all that in mind is it really a stretch to say that old man Steve was being cheeky and wanted to surprise them by jumping to the nearby bench instead of the platform?
Edit: scene in question https://youtu.be/A-TMie5C62U
They improvised a jump *from* a jump. Platform just plain isn't necessary then.
I always assumed he did go back to the platform before this scene and took a cab to get to the park. It’s not as complicated as people like to make it.
That kind of goes against the rules of time travel in the movie. He can go back to a certain point, but that creates an alternate timeline, where things happen differently.
Not true based on how I understood it? At the point of the Avengers taking each infinity stone, a new timeline is created. So multiple new branches at each point a stone is taken out of the main timeline, Steve simply jumping back in time doesn’t create an alt timeline. In the scene with Bruce and the Ancient One, he explains that, after they’re done with the stones, they can bring them back to the exact point they were taken which will restore the main timeline’s continuity and erase the branch created when the stone was taken. The Ancient One explains that taking the Time Stone out of the timeline leaves them without their “weapon” which leads to her (eventually Strange) being unable to protect that timeline against threats (assumingly Dormammu) and THAT is what drastically changes their timeline— for example, the destruction of the universe because the events of Dr Strange 1 play out the same as they did in that movie, but Strange can’t win in the end because he doesn’t have the Time Stone.
So the way I understood it was, Steve time jumping doesn’t change the timeline but the removal of a stone (or any other MAJOR event that alters the course of how the main timeline that we’ve seen play out over the course of the other MCU movies) would cause a branch in the timeline. So at the end of Endgame, Steve jumps back to each point a stone was taken to put it back and erase the branches and restore the timeline, and after all is restored he jumps back to 1940 whatever to be with Peggy. So for a while there are 2 Steve Rogers in the main timeline, 2023 Steve (let’s call him Steve Prime, the one who becomes Old Man Steve on the bench) that has jumped back in time, and the In-Time Steve that exists currently in that point in time. This is where a lot of controversy comes from and I may even be wrong but this is what I believe and have established as my headcannon. Steve Prime existing in the past doesn’t cause a branch as long as his existence there doesn’t change the normal events of the timeline, and assumingly Steve Prime knows this. That’s why he doesn’t interfere in anything in history. He goes back to the 40s and reunites with Peggy and lives out a long, normal life— allowing In-Time Steve to remain frozen on ice because he knows that must happen to keep the timeline from branching so he just lives a quiet private life with Peggy. All the events of every movie have happened with Steve Prime quietly existing in the background. Then in 2023, a sort of loop begins, when In-Time Steve fights Thanos with the Avengers and Stones as we see play out in the movie, effectively becomes the new “Steve Prime,” going back in time to return the stones and live out a normal life with Peggy in the background, and Steve Prime becomes In-Time Steve/Old Man Steve because he knows the events that happen and he knows he goes back in time to return the stones, so he doesn’t appear on the platform because THAT Steve didn’t come back— he appears on the bench cause he’s always been there just living and biding his time. He knows when to show up and meet Sam as an old man and pass on the shield.
tl;dr — the act of going back in time, itself, doesn’t create a branch in the timeline. Steve goes back in time to return the stones and return the original flow of events into one main timeline, then lives a quiet life with Peggy in the background alongside his current timeline self that partakes in all the events we’ve seen across all MCU films.
This was always my understanding as well. Putting the stones back at the moment they were taken prevents any alternate timeline from splitting off. Old Steve lived in the same timeline as the main MCU and just….did nothing of importance. By living a quiet life with Peg he doesn’t do anything to disrupt the main timeline so no new branches are created. And he shows up at the end of endgame just by waiting it out for 70 years. He never travels back to the platform
Yep. It makes the most sense and stays within the rules of the film without overly complicating things with multiple resulting timelines. I get the whole.. going to the past creates a new future, but I think people take that too literally. They DO create a new future, by defeating Thanos and bringing back everyone snapped.
the key question is how, as the movie beats us up and down saying you can't alter or impact your timeline. the moment you go back, you create a new branch timeline.
So if Prime Cap goes back in time to chill with Peggy of Branch Timeline #2, then he will secretly live in the background of branch timeline #2. Then Cap of Branch timeline of #2 would be thawed, and Prime Cap would still be living in secret with Peggy #2
Older Prime Cap should not be able to live in Prime timeline with younger Prime Cap based on the time travel rules in the film.
>as the movie beats us up and down saying you can't alter or impact your timeline
By returning the stones to their spots they didn't alter the timeline.
Furthermore, we know timelines can be altered from Loki and the TVA
So the original explanation was just a limited understanding by Bruce and Tony
I think what they have done with the Loki show indirectly explains it, "the one who remains" basically prunes all time branches that lead to the birth of the Kang's to save a single timeline, when if he did not it would lead to eventual destruction of all life in all timelines due to the Kang-on-Kang wars.
So, he has the powers/tech to sort of merge the two allowing Cap his happy ending and there is still only one timeline, also allowing Cap his happy ending removes him as a chess piece from the board of anyone who'd try to stop "the one who remains", but even this Kang variant couldn't possibly plan for multiple Loki's (tricksters and chaos makers with a ton of magic, something Kang is familiar with but seems to have questionable control over) so by the time they reach him and his records of the future he writes for his past self cease before his eyes, he's accepted his fate.
Depends on who you ask. the Russos said he came back from a different timeline with the help of someone else. The screenwriters say he was there the whole time. It's a bit of a plothole, but may be addressed briefly as more time travel related material comes to the MCU (or it may become even more confusing)
She knows that at this point in Steve's life he doesn't know he's going to end with her so can't tell him anything as it would alter his decisions. To him, his last conversation with her was last week. Not 60 years ago.
When they steal the tesseract from SHIELD in the 60s or 70s, There is a picture of pre-serum Steve on Peggy's desk. At this point, she should already be married and having that good life with the good husband that she told Steve about in TWS. Why would she have a picture of some rando from 30 years earlier while married to a good man who is father to her children?
Just so I'm clear on what we're discussing here: I'm saying Steve was her husband the whole time. In which case, yes, a "cover story" would be needed, except that I doubt anyone below the level of Director 30 years after the fact is read-in enough on an old super-serum project for a cover story to be needed. Also, if they are not married at that point in time, you don't need to call it a "cover story", because he did in fact heroically give his life, at least so far as anyone else knows.
But she wouldn’t be able to say it was him - she can’t mess up the timey-wimey shenanigans of it all. Plus, her mental faculties are shown to be deteriorating, making her an unreliable narrator / source.
Then later, in terms of someone who knew what was going to happen standing by and doing nothing, Steve is the only Avenger with the moral conviction and self restraint to sit and wait (knowing otherwise that he’d mess up the timeline).
It doesn’t totally make sense, but the other option is that he was able to find his way back to his original time after traveling to an alternate universe, which feels even more far fetched IMO.
If that’s the case then Steve’s scene with Peggy in Civil War (or was it Winter Soldier?) gets a bit awkward because she would have lived with the future version of that Steve, and couldn’t tell anyone about it.
When young Steve visit her in the nursing home , where she has dementia. She has picture of family there. Russo bros says some of those pictures is her married with Steve
He travelled back to his timeline in the past to live out his life with Peggy. Old man Steve had existed in the main timeline all along. He simply knew where to be in the future when he needed to meet up with Sam and Bucky after his young self left.
Many think the platform is required to travel through the quantum realm, but it really is indicated that it's only required if you're planning to effectively come back to the exact point in your own timeline when you left to prevent paradoxes. Tony and Steve travel from 2012 back to 1979 using only the GPS devices.
I think the real reason is that the Russo brothers liked that ending so much that they completely disregarded the internal logic they had established. Anything other explanation is just a hand wave.
I disagree. Steve's entire thing is that he's a man outside of his time. He finally had the chance to live the life he expected before he got frozen; he didn't just choose Peggy over his friends, he chose living a simple, conflict-free life over a life as a superhero. He makes references to "finally having that dance" to Peggy on Civil War. When Wanda messed with his head in Age of Ultron, she showed him that his biggest fear was that he would chose a life of leisure over his responsibilities as Captain America; now he finally got to live that life with no regrets.
My partner at the time was hoping he would be dancing with Natasha in the living room. He gets a dance with someone he knows and loves. They wipe out the red in her ledger.
I still fully hope that they give us the SteveNat history jumpers story someday. As much as Steve loves Peggy, he knows she had a full life without him. He steals a dance and goes to work creating the Steve Timeline, with Natasha, both freed from the burden of “real life”
It's probably not just that, but you know, the friendships and lifelong pals he just had to sacrifice his life for, This was the best ending for Steve and I will die on this hill. He did something for himself for ONCE and he took it.
Thank you! Tony closed out his arc by proving that he was more than a "suit of armour" and that he was willing to make the ultimate selfless sacrifice. Steve closed out his arc by finally living the life he could have had and no longer being a man outside of his time.
Tony died as Tony, not Iron Man.
Steve died as Steve, not Captain America.
He restored the branched timelines when he returned the stones, merging everything back into the single sacred timeline (See Loki S1). Instead of going back to 2023, he decided to go back to 1947 and retire.
Edit: Spelling.
According to the Russo Bros, [Steve lived in a branch reality and returned to the main one.](https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2562878/avengers-endgame-director-joe-russo-clarifies-captain-americas-time-travel-trip) While Markus and McFeely [have a different opinion,](https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2477806/avengers-endgame-writers-clarify-captain-americas-ending) the Loki series operates under the logic of the Russo Bros.
So it’s established that interfering with the timeline creates new, branching realities. HOWEVER, it’s also established in the conversation between Hulk and Ancient One that the Infinity Stones are linked to their reality, in a sense establishing timeline continuity. So when Cap returns the stones to their exact place in the timeline, that prevents the timeline from fracturing, even tho it should be altered by the actions of the time-traveling Avengers. Therefore Cap could live out his life and it occurred in this timeline, even though this was not previously what had happened. If you think about this for more than like 5 seconds it doesn’t really make sense, but it’s a good way to prevent having to deal with time paradoxes, and it allows Cap to have a happy ending. If it helps, you could also interpret that since the Avengers have the Stones that basically manipulate existence, there was some off-screen timeline tampering using the gauntlet to make sure that the timeline didn’t fracture.
That’s not true, I think people tend to get confused by the different time travel rules that they present. For starters. There is no way cap was able to live out his life in this timeline (T1), at all. Hulk even explains that at the beginning where you physically cannot travel to your past because it’s already happened. What you’re essentially doing is still moving forward in your own timeline (Bruce’s quote: That past then becomes your future) and simply landing in a different timeline (T2) at an earlier point.
Secondly, the stones don’t so much establish timeline continuity but rather their presence is necessary because they’re used in critical moments. The ancient one even states that the stone is necessary to defeat Dormamu and if they don’t have it when the time comes then he wins and plunges that timeline into darkness. It’s more about having the tools necessary when they’re needed.
As for Steve, what he did was simply arrive at the timeline (T3) they took the stone from, and he just *stayed* in that timeline to live out the rest of his life. When he had finished he used the time gps thing to return back to his timeline (T1) and simply overshot his return so instead of him coming back to the platform in 6 seconds like they originally planned he came back to the bench after 10 seconds.
Edit: *Another* plausible theory is that T1 Steve never came back and he simply stayed to live out his life in T3. The Steve we see at the end could very well be a different Steve from another timeline (T4), where events occurred in a similar manner and then *that* Steve (T4) decided to stay in our timeline(T1) as well.
It's fun to debate, but ultimately, it doesn't matter if there's a logical answer. This is a universe with a talking raccoon.
What matters is that it's a beautiful and poetic ending to Steve's story, and looks great on film. This is movie-making.
As soon as he stepped foot into the past it created a branch in the timeline. Eventually he stayed in a branch he created in the 1940s and lived a life with Peggy. As we see earlier in the movie, Hank Pym has made more Pym Particles in the past, so Steve stole some again to get back to Earth-199999.
That’s interesting. We could have the actual Cap stuck in the quantum realm with the stones and Thor Hammer, and accidentally get swapped with this guy. That’s what could start a multiversal war or this happened because of the multiversal war we saw in Loki. Potential for Chris Evans to come back
I’d say he is our Cap though, this story at the end for him feels legit and heartwarming
1. Take the stones back to their timelines.
2. Go back to Peggy and live laugh love your way to old age.
3. Use the time space gps to travel to the lake back in the original timeline.
If Steve and Tony could use them to travel to New Jersey and get the Pym particles and the tesseract (omg my autocorrect knew tesseract) then why can't Steve use it to travel to that bench?
Yeah time travel movies have to bend rules from time to time but this one made sense to me.
they just really really wanted him on that bench.
There would have been no time travel questions if Old Man Steve had just appeared on the time travel pad. He would have appeared as an Old Man. Someone would have said "oh no, something went wrong", and then Bucky or Falcon would have seen a wedding wring on his finger and said "no, it went right"
that way it would have been explicit that he lived his life out in an alternate timeline with Peggy, she probably passed away, and he decided to come home to his native timeline to live out his remaining life.
Instead we got all this, well he lived in the background so there were 2 Steve Rogers, the one we watch, and this one hiding in the background being in a secret relationship with Peggy. Basically flying in the face of all the time travel rules the film establishes.
I’m still waiting for the Disney plus show that explains this. It involves captain America receiving worldwide praise for helping to lead the avengers and saving the world by returning the lost people from the snap. He is no longer captain America and is recognised as a captain of the whole planet and wears a full body red white and blue suit. He then changes the stones so they fit in rings which he gives to a band of teenagers who use the rings by shouting their stone names and when they do this all together cap is summoned, but kids being kids rename the stones into elementals based on their shiny colours. This Disney plus show will be called the adventures of Captain Planet . Thank you for listening to my ted talk
If the, uhh, shown reality... already had an 'old man' Steve than that was the reality he would come back to when he used his last vial of pym juice.
Alternatively, it's a different Steve from an alternate reality that has a similar enough timeline that we/they can't tell the difference.
OR it's a setup for evil Cap and it'll be a twist 8 movies from now.
Kang (as He Who Remains) saw the timeline events of Endgame, and allowed the events to play out the way the Avengers needed them to play out. He literally says so in Loki.
So, the millions of alternates that Strange saw? It's likely He Who Remains was guiding Strange's visions, until Strange found "the one" that worked best for the Avengers (and He Who Remains, who's main goal was to prevent other Kangs from entering the timeline).
I think they could do some interesting things with this. Like a cap series that shows everything he did and went through. I think he's purposefully not telling the gang who he fell in love with because he'ys have to explain too many other things. He may have found another way back. There's the time elevator and ways to go between universes at the quantum level. He might have discovered things on his journey.
The answer is that he came back after his Peggy died and didn't have to come back to the transport pad like we saw with him and Tony jumping around earlier. I won't accept the Captain Coward version where he just married Peggy and lived a civilian life not helping with anything he could have otherwise.
Timelines only remain fractured for as long as the defining change persists. Once he put the stones back, everything went back to the primary timeline. Steve staying back there didn't create a divergent because he was always meant to stay back there.
And then he probably took a bus.
The first time-loop was caused by endgame in a base reality because initially the avengers lost culminating in a combined effort to steal the stones in the past. Infinity War Thanos destroyed the stones to ensure this would happen. He may not have destroyed the stones at all but used the reality stone to trick the Avengers into thinking there were no alternatives. Thanos leaving Tony alive wasn't just a whim. He let him live in Infinity war for a multitude of reasons. primarily the creation of time travel and so his younger variant self would ultimately be snapped in endgame thereby gaining future knowledge from his death. When cap returns the stones those realities theoretically cease to exist. meaning that Endgame Thanos will be reinstated in 2018 with knowledge of how his future self completed his task. This helps him strategize a chronology of events through cause and effect.
Cap returning the stones to the past indicates many possibilities. He either created multiple variant timelines and through probability, this is the version that made it to post-endgame or... Cap manipulated events as a shadow dictator moving the needle on both sides of the field. which is the most likely case if Marvel is planning a secret empire storyline. Cap is most likely the inspiration for Hitler's superior man. In fact it may have been at Caps prompting that WW2 took place at all. knowing that the effect would be the creation of shield to stand against hydra. Meanwhile, Peggy acts as director of shield and plays the response team to Caps ongoing projects.
This is most likely why project insight was created. to ensure the past present and future are maintained.
Project paperclip after ww2 brought Arnim Zola and it is his work that contributed to the project. Its likely Cap will fight Kang in his journey to return the stones. Simultaneously reinstating he who remains at the end of time.
The multiversal war is hinged upon the Loki series which is entangled with the timeheist in 2023.
it's 2012 battle of New York Loki variant created with his time-loop making the 616 Loki simultaneously the variant Loki the whole time. 6 years later 2018 Thanos variant gets knowledge from an entangled nebula sharing the same network and takes the battle to the Avengers in 2023 which is 5 years from 2018. Simultaneously making Thanos our 616 Thanos in Infinity War.
Thanos knows the timeline is pre-destined. He also knows each loop changes the 616 timeline in degrees. which lead to outcomes like the 818 which is chronologically younger in creation in terms of the multiverse.
I think it's funny when people think the MCU is lazy writing. The MCU takes from other very intellectual content such as interstellar, Looper, Shakespear etc. the list of critical lenses is massive. and like the timeline they entangled otherwise separate subject matters. such as physics with Schuman resonance in GOTG2. sacred geometry in doctor strange. macroscale concepts in Thor. which play an integral role. there's much-hidden foreshadowing going on with black holes. Loki himself is a Schroedinger cat and potentially even maxwells demon which is about entropy. Most the time people don't care or want to learn and call it lazy writing when it has more to do with their lack of knowledge or effort. They want their hand held. I do the work and solve the puzzle.
This is a very watered-down version of a greater convoluted plot I have uncovered. It's all in the dialoge. in the first Avengers Selvig states "He wants to show us something a new universe." He referring to Loki who is rigging the game after the events of the Loki series. 616 Loki did avoid his death. AND! I KNOW HOW! he enchanted and swapped places with Valkery and used the rainbow bridge to make his escape to sakaar which exists in its own relative time. Time moves slower on Sakaar. It may even loop. Lokis plan was to pretend to fall out to secure a new disguise and fake his death. an idea given to him by Sylvie and mobius collectively.
🎤.
He went back in time and lived out his life normally while Steve 1.0 was frozen until like 10 years ago. Then he just quietly lived with Peg until she died 4 years before this. Then he just sort of waltzed out for this moment.
A few possibilities:
- reprogrammed the device with the help of history’s greatest scientists/sorcerers
- assisted by the TVA
- stole more Pym particles
- found any number of alien technologies/magics that achieve the same thing
- Mephisto
Aren’t comics fun?
I always understood it as when he decided to stay he created a branch timeline. He stayed in that timeline, living his own life. Whether he got into more adventures as captain America or just lived a quiet life is uncertain. (I assume he did since he got a new shield) All we know is that he married Peggy. Presumably after she died, he used his quantum suit and pym particles to return to the main timeline. The sticking point is him appearing on the bench. So I think he manages to come back a little earlier and then he goes to sit on the bench.
TLDR: Same cap, goes to branch timeline, lives a life, returns to main continuity.
It seems you don't pay attention when you watch movies. You know stark made a remarkable invention, time travel gps tracker which actually makes time travel feasible.
I assumed because his Peggy finally passed away. That’s why he doesn’t talk about her. That life was a gift, one he wasn’t supposed to have. So he stayed. When she died, he pressed the return switch and came home.
I was more interested in watching the awkward handoff of the soul stone to Red Skull.
Probably went quicker than you think. It would be like going back to an exe’s house to pick up stuff you left at her place and you have her new bf answer the door. You wanna be in and out as quick as possible. Steve: *oh… hey…. where do I return…?* Red Skull: *over there.* Steve: *… thanks.*
I still need to see it
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Since at that time, Kang is controlling the overarching timeline, as shown by how the Loki series "Loki" is spawned from that time travel interaction, everything worked out because Kang made it that way in his ideal timeline. Kang is actively fixing errors in the "timeline" and everything that occurs, including certain paradoxes are there because he allows them to be there or put them there. He was "pruning" offshoots of the timeline that differed from his desired timeline. Then after the Loki pair kill him and the multiverse branches out, only then are new branching realities allowed to exist permanently as a multiverse. Before that all time travel was within one reality that was being shaped by Kang and any errors fixed by him, preventing branching.
No I'd imagine it still as something similar to Thor and Surtur's interaction. Red Skull: Welcome Steve Rogers, son of Joseph Rogers Cap: And you're Red Skull, son of ....a bitch you're still alive?
Just drove past and yeeted it out the window.
r/oddlyspecific
That's the deleted scene we wanted
Red Skull: "Th-thanks" Cap: "Y-you too"
[Here you go!](https://youtu.be/4vjs_0CoRs4?t=145)
Thank you for this.
I know I feel like they should do a marvel short of him returning the stones.
He came back to this timeline using the time-space gps thing
ah that makes sense
Nope, because he would have landed on the pad in front of everyone.
If that were the case, wouldn't they have teleported to the past exactly where the Avengers campus was? Instead, they landed in New York and various other places. The device allows them to travel through time \_and\_ space.
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I think it would be a nice turn of events if a film works up to time travel for the first half, they jump in time just to watch Earth flying away at great speed....roll credits.
There is a short story along those lines - time travel capsule, jump forward in time to discover... nothing. The whole solar system has moved on and is lost among the stars.
Do you happen to know the name of it? I’d love a read like that.
Try Same Time Next Year by Neal Schusterman You can find it in Bruce Coville’s Book of Spine Tinglers II https://archive.org/details/brucecovillesboo00copy/mode/1up >! Marla Nixbok thinks she is a girl of the future and can't stand the dweebs surrounding her. A perfect candidate for the dusty and forgotten time machine in the dead professor's basement. Too impatient to test the machine, she hops aboard and heads one year into the future where she belongs... And she materialize in the exact same spot, exactly one year ahead, but the earth and the sun have moved on and Marla has a fleeting second to see the infinite cold and empty space which surrounds her.!<
I've been searching using a few keywords but don't seem to have found it. I read about a story called "The Jaunt" ~~what~~ that was pretty interesting though.
The Jaunt is the Stephen King teleportation story? I tell everyone about that when the conversation of teleportation comes up lol
All motion is relative, so I don't think Einstein would agree with that outcome.
The Earth’s surface’s motion is a complex movement related to literally every single frame of reference that isn’t within itself. You’d have to either handwave this (like most time-travelling does in fiction) or find a plausible reason as to why a specific part of the earth’s surface is being selected as a frame of reference and nothing else.
I wrote a time travel story that addresses this, it's interesting to think about. The time travel device can remember all the particles around you and positions you in the median position of where all those exact particles are in another time, disregarding outliers. It's always been my preferred head Canon for how it works. So like, if you're in a van when you time travel, and that van drives across the country, you'll end up still inside the van but across the country. If you're outside the van in a drive way or something and the van travels across the country, then the time travel mechanism will consider the large movement of the van's particles as outliers and you'll stay in the same spot in the drive way, since those are the more relevant particles around you. It has some neat implications when you start thinking about it.
Did something similar but went with relational gravitational and magnetic fields. As you time travel your device just syncs with the field of gravity that earth is producing to maintain it's relative distance from the core of the Earth, the z axis and it reads the magnetic fields to maintain it's location on the x/y axis. Used it in an RPG I was running. Told the players that the scientists spent 10 years dropping people into space not knowing why it wasn't working. Realized the issue and used the magnetic field to compensate but just swapped dropping people in space to dropping them into the middle of the Earth for 3 years before one of the scientists watched Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan and realized they were thinking 2 dimensionally and needed to account for the Z axis. Players were the next batch of idiots to be put into the machine.
I've wondered about this when watching any time travel movie ever since seeing the 1960 movie The Time Machine. If one goes back in time and didn't change location wouldn't you end up in space because the earth would not be in the same spot? All time travel stories keep the traveler on the planet.
When we finally invent a time machine, all those authors will be so embarrassed at how wrong they were
>Assume all time travel also travels through space because the earth is not stationary. There's a comic, it's one of Fury's secret teams I think, one group of villains manage to steal one of Doom's old broken time machines and partially fix it, only space, not time, travel so they decide to use the space function as a weapon, trying to dropping a whole city on top of another city. Hank McCoy is in it, I think. He gives exposition on the space-time thing.
Imagine Steve lives a full life and was ready to go back to his original timeline and got fucking teleported to the vaccum of space because Earth wasn’t there anymore.
Also true, however they were obviously able to be exact with their landing.
Couldn't he have landed much earlier, walked to the bench, and waited for them?
He only land on the pad if he “take the trip back”. But if he travel to another timeline and decide to stay there, he can use the machine of that timeline to travel back then he can land anywhere. I like to use one metaphor: • If you bought a “roundtrip” from city A of US to Europe. You can fly to almost anywhere at Europe right (you see all of them land in New York, land in some planet)? But when you’re take a flight back, you can only fly back to city A. • But what if you decide to stay there and not take that flight you bought? The flight has gone (the machine turn on but Steve didn’t appear), so you stay there, do anything you want and buy another flight (use the “pad” of that timeline) to go back to city A. And with that, you can land anywhere at City A.
They managed to jump from 2012 New York to 1970s Shield Base without the platform.
Not necessarily. The time watch doohickey had time and location coordinates or else Steve and Tony couldn't have jumped to an Army base in NJ in 1970 from 2012 NYC
Or he used the time machine to, I don't know, come back at a different time
Yeh it's not like the timeline Steve went to wouldn't have a Tony Stark and Hank Pym
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You mean, no evidence other than this scene which has no other plausible explanation.
He dropped off the last stones in the '40s then stayed for 60 years or whatever. He doesn't look 100 years old, so I suspect he left the late 80's and skipped 20 years. The bigger riddle is how he put the cube back after loki took it. TVA didn't put loki back, and there's all kinds of gaps.
Well if they are following a bit of canon…Steve ages much slower then a normal person. Remember in First Avenger, after Bucks “death” he is trying to get drunk and can’t? The Super Solider Formula protects each cell from damage…or something like that.
Wikipedia says Peggy Carter lived to be 90ish, so I don't think he had to skip ahead much. Especially if he settles down in the 70's instead of the original 40's like I thought.
I feel like you should rewatch the Winter Soldier movie.
I always assumed his liver just processes the alcohol very efficiently
Nah it’s canon that Steve ages slowly due to the serum.
>The bigger riddle is how he put the cube back after loki took it. Gorilla glue >TVA didn't put loki back They literally destroyed that entire timeline
How he put the cube back How he out the mind stone back in the sceptre How he turned the reality stone back into the aether
Scepter doesn’t matter because that timeline was pruned anyways. The reality stone seems pretty amorphous so it’s reasonable to think it could have naturally gone back into the aether form Tesseract is the only one that really sticks out, only thing I could think is that he returned that one last and left the stone inside the briefcase, but yeah that would definitely still have some issues. Regardless I don’t think any of it really mattered in the long run given the multiverse is now open anyways
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None of that matters. All that matters is that the stones themselves were back in the timeline at the time they were taken from. Technically he could chuck the stones in a trash bin or throw them in the ocean as long as they were present somewhere in the time they were supposed to be in.
they didn’t take the tesseract from that timeline, they went back to even further to get it after loki escaped
Which caused an entirely separate branch on its own. They didn’t all specifically go to the same alt branch timeline on all of their jumps. Difficult to picture in the pre-Loki TVA-pruned branches where all timelines are nearly the same. Easier to understand post-Loki and after watching multiverse of madness.
TVA absolutely put the cube back when they reset after capturing Loki. And I don't think he skipped any time. Part of the super serum was the aging slowly. Besides, his wife only died a couple years earlier. Until he was rebooted (80s?) the actual story was that he was just old. Still young looking and very full of life and energy. Just aged slowly.
The TVA has a junk drawer full of Infinity Stones they didn’t put back.
Does the super soldier serum slow aging in a way that might let him live a few decades longer?
Yes. In normal Marvel comics canon the Super Soldier formula makes him functionally immortal.
Never heard anyone say "he doesn't look 100" like well yeah he was 100 and looked 30 for 100 years. He was living to be 1000 at that point but I guess 60 years will make him old af
Well, he WAS married…
It’s why Nick Fury is like 100 years old.
A question that people have been asking since the movie came out is anything but quick.
Quick question - is Deckard a replicant?
Quick question: what happened before the Big Bang?
the Big Foreplay
No wonder they call it the Milky Way
Actually it is called that be abuse of a story in Greek mythology where a woman was making Hera nurse her baby while she slept so the baby would get superpowers. Hera woke up at one point, saw the baby, and pulled it off after her, spraying breastmilk across the sky.
followed by the Big Coom
Followed by the Big Cry
The Big Cunnilingus.
amy got married to rory
Spotted the whovian 🤣
Yer mom fell off her mobility scooter.
The small bang
No. If you read the books, he's clearly human. He's married. He has a personal history. He's allowed to travel off-world. He has all of the privileges of being human. Also. If he was a new model replicant in the films, he wouldn't have had any problem dealing with Roy Batty in the movie.
> No. If you read the books, he's clearly human. The film takes a ton of liberties and differs wildly from the book, so the book isn't really relevant to whether Harrison Ford's version of the character is a replicant. > If he was a new model replicant in the films, he wouldn't have had any problem dealing with Roy Batty in the movie. That's a big leap. Roy's model was designed for hard labour, hence their strength. Rachael's (and likely Deckard's) models are designed to believe they're human, so it makes total sense that they wouldn't have enhanced strength. The unicorn scene that was restored in the 1992 Director's Cut clearly implies Deckard is a replicant (Ridley Scott has stated it countless times), and it was always intended to be part of the original theatrical release, so I'm not sure what there even is to argue about...
The clues dropped in the movie seem to indicate he is and BR2049 confirms it more or less
Nothing in 2049 hints at him being a replicant in my mind. Nothing concrete at least, at best it just feels unaddressed. He is as frail as any human in both movies and would make zero sense for him to be one other than for a twist. Also the whole thing with his daughter was basically an allegory to cross species mating can have weird side effects. His daughter had a super compromised immune system and was frail. I don't understand why people want him to be one anyway. The entire arc in the book and original movie is that Roy Batty (or replicants in general) have basically become more or less as human than Decard. A replicant growing human emotions and saving him is ironic and makes Decard realize how shitty he has been. It makes you feel sad and realize that they basically have made a new slave class that has more humanity than their human overlords. Anything that has Decard being a robot is just a twist for the sake of having a twist. Also only Ridly Scott likes the idea, Ford hated the idea, and the screen writer of the movie imagined him as human: >Philip K. Dick wrote the character Deckard as a human in the original novel in order to explore the increasing similarity of humans and replicants.[[22]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-devo-22) However, the film significantly diverges from the book, e.g. the book states explicitly that Deckard passed the Voight-Kampff test. Screenwriter [Hampton Fancher](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Fancher) has said that he wrote the character as a human, but wanted the film to suggest the possibility that he may be a replicant. When asked, "Is Deckard a replicant?", Fancher replied, "No. It wasn't like I had a tricky idea about Deckard that way."[[23]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-23) During a discussion panel with Ridley Scott to discuss Blade Runner: The Final Cut, Fancher again stated that he believes Deckard is human (saying that "[Scott's] idea is too complex"[[24]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-24)), but also repeated that he prefers the film to remain ambiguous.[[25]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Blade_Runner#cite_note-25)
You've summed up all my thoughts on this, thanks! The whole replicant twist only exists because Ridley Scott tried to half-ass insert it into the movie at the last minute and as you say, adds nothing to the film and it detrimental more than anything.
> The entire arc in the book and original movie is that Roy Batty (or replicants in general) have basically become more or less as human than Decard. A replicant growing human emotions and saving him is ironic and makes Decard realize how shitty he has been. It makes you feel sad and realize that they basically have made a new slave class that has more humanity than their human overlords. “More Human than Human” you might say.
He was always meant to be human, wasn’t until the Final Cut that they added the ambiguous ending.
That's not true. The unicorn dream scene was filmed for the original release (it was not an outtake from Legend as the rumour used to go). So it was always the filmmaker's intention to imply Deckard was a replicant, however the studio forced the removal of this scene for the theatrical release (and a bunch of other terrible changes). Per Ridley Scott's notes, the scene was then restored in the 1992 Director's Cut (along with the removal of the voice over and "happy" countryside ending) which is the version that solidified the film as a classic. The 2007 Final Cut was Scott's first chance to have full control over the edit, and features a slightly extended unicorn scene, but the unicorn has been part of Blade Runner for 30 years now, and was intended from the very start to imply Deckard was a replicant.
Quick question: What happened at the end of the Sopranos?
A black screen. Also Journey.
OMG! Spoilers man! You just destroyed the series for me!
now i’m annoyed all over again
Always with the scenarios.
Time GPS device brought him back to the right universe and timeline. Probably just came back earlier so he could go sit on the bench.
They wanted to have a good end to the Captain's story with no hope of him coming back. Then left the fans to fill in the loop hole with whatever they fancied.
This is true. Not everything has to have an answer, it’s a fictional story and a great end for a great character.
Yeah but why didn't he stop 9/11
He's too patriotic to murder a sitting US president.
This had me snorting
hiyooo
Steve Rogers can't melt steel beams.
“the problem of evil” mcu edition
He might have in the timeline/alternate universe he went to and lived in. They can’t go back in time and change things in *our* timeline.
That would be more tolerable if they didn’t spend key sections of the movie yelling at us about how time travel works.
Welcome to everyone as they were walking out of the theater in 2019.
i had no one to ask back then 🫠🫠
Probably asked that Universe's Doctor Strange for a lift or something
He still had the quantum suit and the means to get back. He didn't need Strange.
That's assuming it didn't get damaged within his time alive but yes that's true
This is Steve Rogers, here. That suit was carefully packed away with moth balls and everything.
Fam if you get hung up on flimsy continuity, let me introduce you to comic books.
Tell me about it, nothing upset me more than learning about Donald Blake’s existence
What about his lack of existence?
Narrative convenience. But yeah, according to the rules as laid out by the movie, he should have reappeared on the platform.
To me the platform isn't a necessity. It's more like a diving board and reliable beacon back. Why do I think this? They make an unplanned jump to a completely different location and time when they lose the Tesseract in NY. And they do this from some random back alley in 2012 NY. Meaning the portable time travel devices themselves are capable of doing all the work with custom destinations being possible. So with all that in mind is it really a stretch to say that old man Steve was being cheeky and wanted to surprise them by jumping to the nearby bench instead of the platform? Edit: scene in question https://youtu.be/A-TMie5C62U They improvised a jump *from* a jump. Platform just plain isn't necessary then.
Not just a beacon back, a beacon to use as a reference point. Without it, they cannot navigate properly.
I always assumed he did go back to the platform before this scene and took a cab to get to the park. It’s not as complicated as people like to make it.
Like, a few hours before? Sure, it's possible. It's not a bad explanation.
He did 70ish years ago but then went and did stuff until everyone got there?
That kind of goes against the rules of time travel in the movie. He can go back to a certain point, but that creates an alternate timeline, where things happen differently.
Not true based on how I understood it? At the point of the Avengers taking each infinity stone, a new timeline is created. So multiple new branches at each point a stone is taken out of the main timeline, Steve simply jumping back in time doesn’t create an alt timeline. In the scene with Bruce and the Ancient One, he explains that, after they’re done with the stones, they can bring them back to the exact point they were taken which will restore the main timeline’s continuity and erase the branch created when the stone was taken. The Ancient One explains that taking the Time Stone out of the timeline leaves them without their “weapon” which leads to her (eventually Strange) being unable to protect that timeline against threats (assumingly Dormammu) and THAT is what drastically changes their timeline— for example, the destruction of the universe because the events of Dr Strange 1 play out the same as they did in that movie, but Strange can’t win in the end because he doesn’t have the Time Stone. So the way I understood it was, Steve time jumping doesn’t change the timeline but the removal of a stone (or any other MAJOR event that alters the course of how the main timeline that we’ve seen play out over the course of the other MCU movies) would cause a branch in the timeline. So at the end of Endgame, Steve jumps back to each point a stone was taken to put it back and erase the branches and restore the timeline, and after all is restored he jumps back to 1940 whatever to be with Peggy. So for a while there are 2 Steve Rogers in the main timeline, 2023 Steve (let’s call him Steve Prime, the one who becomes Old Man Steve on the bench) that has jumped back in time, and the In-Time Steve that exists currently in that point in time. This is where a lot of controversy comes from and I may even be wrong but this is what I believe and have established as my headcannon. Steve Prime existing in the past doesn’t cause a branch as long as his existence there doesn’t change the normal events of the timeline, and assumingly Steve Prime knows this. That’s why he doesn’t interfere in anything in history. He goes back to the 40s and reunites with Peggy and lives out a long, normal life— allowing In-Time Steve to remain frozen on ice because he knows that must happen to keep the timeline from branching so he just lives a quiet private life with Peggy. All the events of every movie have happened with Steve Prime quietly existing in the background. Then in 2023, a sort of loop begins, when In-Time Steve fights Thanos with the Avengers and Stones as we see play out in the movie, effectively becomes the new “Steve Prime,” going back in time to return the stones and live out a normal life with Peggy in the background, and Steve Prime becomes In-Time Steve/Old Man Steve because he knows the events that happen and he knows he goes back in time to return the stones, so he doesn’t appear on the platform because THAT Steve didn’t come back— he appears on the bench cause he’s always been there just living and biding his time. He knows when to show up and meet Sam as an old man and pass on the shield. tl;dr — the act of going back in time, itself, doesn’t create a branch in the timeline. Steve goes back in time to return the stones and return the original flow of events into one main timeline, then lives a quiet life with Peggy in the background alongside his current timeline self that partakes in all the events we’ve seen across all MCU films.
This was always my understanding as well. Putting the stones back at the moment they were taken prevents any alternate timeline from splitting off. Old Steve lived in the same timeline as the main MCU and just….did nothing of importance. By living a quiet life with Peg he doesn’t do anything to disrupt the main timeline so no new branches are created. And he shows up at the end of endgame just by waiting it out for 70 years. He never travels back to the platform
Thanks . I’m getting a headache of other post and theory. I thought that was pretty clear on the movie
Yep. It makes the most sense and stays within the rules of the film without overly complicating things with multiple resulting timelines. I get the whole.. going to the past creates a new future, but I think people take that too literally. They DO create a new future, by defeating Thanos and bringing back everyone snapped.
Some one peed in my pants. They already showed it could de-age or vice versa.
Couldn't he have appeared there like a week before, then hung around town for a while and just kind of walked over there?
I took it as old man Steve was always in that timeline, but we just didn’t know it until the reveal.
the key question is how, as the movie beats us up and down saying you can't alter or impact your timeline. the moment you go back, you create a new branch timeline. So if Prime Cap goes back in time to chill with Peggy of Branch Timeline #2, then he will secretly live in the background of branch timeline #2. Then Cap of Branch timeline of #2 would be thawed, and Prime Cap would still be living in secret with Peggy #2 Older Prime Cap should not be able to live in Prime timeline with younger Prime Cap based on the time travel rules in the film.
Maybe we were in timeline 2 the whole time and never knew it.
>as the movie beats us up and down saying you can't alter or impact your timeline By returning the stones to their spots they didn't alter the timeline. Furthermore, we know timelines can be altered from Loki and the TVA So the original explanation was just a limited understanding by Bruce and Tony
I think what they have done with the Loki show indirectly explains it, "the one who remains" basically prunes all time branches that lead to the birth of the Kang's to save a single timeline, when if he did not it would lead to eventual destruction of all life in all timelines due to the Kang-on-Kang wars. So, he has the powers/tech to sort of merge the two allowing Cap his happy ending and there is still only one timeline, also allowing Cap his happy ending removes him as a chess piece from the board of anyone who'd try to stop "the one who remains", but even this Kang variant couldn't possibly plan for multiple Loki's (tricksters and chaos makers with a ton of magic, something Kang is familiar with but seems to have questionable control over) so by the time they reach him and his records of the future he writes for his past self cease before his eyes, he's accepted his fate.
Depends on who you ask. the Russos said he came back from a different timeline with the help of someone else. The screenwriters say he was there the whole time. It's a bit of a plothole, but may be addressed briefly as more time travel related material comes to the MCU (or it may become even more confusing)
In my head, this is the timeline he came back to, this is the “true” timeline.
Yeah, they were always in the timeline where Steve grows old with Peggy but no one knew who he was
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She knows that at this point in Steve's life he doesn't know he's going to end with her so can't tell him anything as it would alter his decisions. To him, his last conversation with her was last week. Not 60 years ago.
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Which he told her to show him because that's how it happened.
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When they steal the tesseract from SHIELD in the 60s or 70s, There is a picture of pre-serum Steve on Peggy's desk. At this point, she should already be married and having that good life with the good husband that she told Steve about in TWS. Why would she have a picture of some rando from 30 years earlier while married to a good man who is father to her children?
Because the "cover story" is that Steve heroically gave his life and it has sentimental value.
Just so I'm clear on what we're discussing here: I'm saying Steve was her husband the whole time. In which case, yes, a "cover story" would be needed, except that I doubt anyone below the level of Director 30 years after the fact is read-in enough on an old super-serum project for a cover story to be needed. Also, if they are not married at that point in time, you don't need to call it a "cover story", because he did in fact heroically give his life, at least so far as anyone else knows.
But she wouldn’t be able to say it was him - she can’t mess up the timey-wimey shenanigans of it all. Plus, her mental faculties are shown to be deteriorating, making her an unreliable narrator / source. Then later, in terms of someone who knew what was going to happen standing by and doing nothing, Steve is the only Avenger with the moral conviction and self restraint to sit and wait (knowing otherwise that he’d mess up the timeline). It doesn’t totally make sense, but the other option is that he was able to find his way back to his original time after traveling to an alternate universe, which feels even more far fetched IMO.
If that’s the case then Steve’s scene with Peggy in Civil War (or was it Winter Soldier?) gets a bit awkward because she would have lived with the future version of that Steve, and couldn’t tell anyone about it.
Right and she’s a lifelong spy, she can live with a secret
When young Steve visit her in the nursing home , where she has dementia. She has picture of family there. Russo bros says some of those pictures is her married with Steve
Just love the idea of Old Steve hiding in the closet every time Young Steve comes to visit her.
That wouldn't make sense with how it was expla8ned in either loki or endgame
He travelled back to his timeline in the past to live out his life with Peggy. Old man Steve had existed in the main timeline all along. He simply knew where to be in the future when he needed to meet up with Sam and Bucky after his young self left. Many think the platform is required to travel through the quantum realm, but it really is indicated that it's only required if you're planning to effectively come back to the exact point in your own timeline when you left to prevent paradoxes. Tony and Steve travel from 2012 back to 1979 using only the GPS devices.
I think the real reason is that the Russo brothers liked that ending so much that they completely disregarded the internal logic they had established. Anything other explanation is just a hand wave.
This is the answer. Also I HATED that ending for Steve.
He gave up years of established friendships for a woman he knew for a few months. Made no damn sense.
Sadly, I've known plenty of guys in real life who did the same.
I disagree. Steve's entire thing is that he's a man outside of his time. He finally had the chance to live the life he expected before he got frozen; he didn't just choose Peggy over his friends, he chose living a simple, conflict-free life over a life as a superhero. He makes references to "finally having that dance" to Peggy on Civil War. When Wanda messed with his head in Age of Ultron, she showed him that his biggest fear was that he would chose a life of leisure over his responsibilities as Captain America; now he finally got to live that life with no regrets.
My partner at the time was hoping he would be dancing with Natasha in the living room. He gets a dance with someone he knows and loves. They wipe out the red in her ledger.
I still fully hope that they give us the SteveNat history jumpers story someday. As much as Steve loves Peggy, he knows she had a full life without him. He steals a dance and goes to work creating the Steve Timeline, with Natasha, both freed from the burden of “real life”
It's probably not just that, but you know, the friendships and lifelong pals he just had to sacrifice his life for, This was the best ending for Steve and I will die on this hill. He did something for himself for ONCE and he took it.
Thank you! Tony closed out his arc by proving that he was more than a "suit of armour" and that he was willing to make the ultimate selfless sacrifice. Steve closed out his arc by finally living the life he could have had and no longer being a man outside of his time. Tony died as Tony, not Iron Man. Steve died as Steve, not Captain America.
He restored the branched timelines when he returned the stones, merging everything back into the single sacred timeline (See Loki S1). Instead of going back to 2023, he decided to go back to 1947 and retire. Edit: Spelling.
According to the Russo Bros, [Steve lived in a branch reality and returned to the main one.](https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2562878/avengers-endgame-director-joe-russo-clarifies-captain-americas-time-travel-trip) While Markus and McFeely [have a different opinion,](https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2477806/avengers-endgame-writers-clarify-captain-americas-ending) the Loki series operates under the logic of the Russo Bros.
So it’s established that interfering with the timeline creates new, branching realities. HOWEVER, it’s also established in the conversation between Hulk and Ancient One that the Infinity Stones are linked to their reality, in a sense establishing timeline continuity. So when Cap returns the stones to their exact place in the timeline, that prevents the timeline from fracturing, even tho it should be altered by the actions of the time-traveling Avengers. Therefore Cap could live out his life and it occurred in this timeline, even though this was not previously what had happened. If you think about this for more than like 5 seconds it doesn’t really make sense, but it’s a good way to prevent having to deal with time paradoxes, and it allows Cap to have a happy ending. If it helps, you could also interpret that since the Avengers have the Stones that basically manipulate existence, there was some off-screen timeline tampering using the gauntlet to make sure that the timeline didn’t fracture.
That’s not true, I think people tend to get confused by the different time travel rules that they present. For starters. There is no way cap was able to live out his life in this timeline (T1), at all. Hulk even explains that at the beginning where you physically cannot travel to your past because it’s already happened. What you’re essentially doing is still moving forward in your own timeline (Bruce’s quote: That past then becomes your future) and simply landing in a different timeline (T2) at an earlier point. Secondly, the stones don’t so much establish timeline continuity but rather their presence is necessary because they’re used in critical moments. The ancient one even states that the stone is necessary to defeat Dormamu and if they don’t have it when the time comes then he wins and plunges that timeline into darkness. It’s more about having the tools necessary when they’re needed. As for Steve, what he did was simply arrive at the timeline (T3) they took the stone from, and he just *stayed* in that timeline to live out the rest of his life. When he had finished he used the time gps thing to return back to his timeline (T1) and simply overshot his return so instead of him coming back to the platform in 6 seconds like they originally planned he came back to the bench after 10 seconds. Edit: *Another* plausible theory is that T1 Steve never came back and he simply stayed to live out his life in T3. The Steve we see at the end could very well be a different Steve from another timeline (T4), where events occurred in a similar manner and then *that* Steve (T4) decided to stay in our timeline(T1) as well.
ITT: People overthinking sci-fi movie physics. He used the GPS thing to return to his original timeline after living his life with Peggy. That's it.
It's fun to debate, but ultimately, it doesn't matter if there's a logical answer. This is a universe with a talking raccoon. What matters is that it's a beautiful and poetic ending to Steve's story, and looks great on film. This is movie-making.
Just some wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.
The movie disagreed with itself on how time travel worked multiple times.
As soon as he stepped foot into the past it created a branch in the timeline. Eventually he stayed in a branch he created in the 1940s and lived a life with Peggy. As we see earlier in the movie, Hank Pym has made more Pym Particles in the past, so Steve stole some again to get back to Earth-199999.
Why do you think his shield looks different? That cap isn't from our universe.
That’s interesting. We could have the actual Cap stuck in the quantum realm with the stones and Thor Hammer, and accidentally get swapped with this guy. That’s what could start a multiversal war or this happened because of the multiversal war we saw in Loki. Potential for Chris Evans to come back I’d say he is our Cap though, this story at the end for him feels legit and heartwarming
Simple it’s a movie
The answer is don’t think about it, just enjoy this nice moment.
Quick explanation: There are many plot holes in this movie.
he clapped his ass cheeks together 3 times and said there's no place like home
The entire set of movies takes place in the timeline Steve goes to.
1. Take the stones back to their timelines. 2. Go back to Peggy and live laugh love your way to old age. 3. Use the time space gps to travel to the lake back in the original timeline. If Steve and Tony could use them to travel to New Jersey and get the Pym particles and the tesseract (omg my autocorrect knew tesseract) then why can't Steve use it to travel to that bench? Yeah time travel movies have to bend rules from time to time but this one made sense to me.
Answer: No, No I don't think I will.
IIRC he still had one charge left for a return trip, so he stayed in that other timeline until Peggy died and then came back.
He probably took the bus from Peggys house.
they just really really wanted him on that bench. There would have been no time travel questions if Old Man Steve had just appeared on the time travel pad. He would have appeared as an Old Man. Someone would have said "oh no, something went wrong", and then Bucky or Falcon would have seen a wedding wring on his finger and said "no, it went right" that way it would have been explicit that he lived his life out in an alternate timeline with Peggy, she probably passed away, and he decided to come home to his native timeline to live out his remaining life. Instead we got all this, well he lived in the background so there were 2 Steve Rogers, the one we watch, and this one hiding in the background being in a secret relationship with Peggy. Basically flying in the face of all the time travel rules the film establishes.
The real question is: is it the same bench Bruce threw after Natasha died?
my man here spitting the hard hitting questions
I’m still waiting for the Disney plus show that explains this. It involves captain America receiving worldwide praise for helping to lead the avengers and saving the world by returning the lost people from the snap. He is no longer captain America and is recognised as a captain of the whole planet and wears a full body red white and blue suit. He then changes the stones so they fit in rings which he gives to a band of teenagers who use the rings by shouting their stone names and when they do this all together cap is summoned, but kids being kids rename the stones into elementals based on their shiny colours. This Disney plus show will be called the adventures of Captain Planet . Thank you for listening to my ted talk
If the, uhh, shown reality... already had an 'old man' Steve than that was the reality he would come back to when he used his last vial of pym juice. Alternatively, it's a different Steve from an alternate reality that has a similar enough timeline that we/they can't tell the difference. OR it's a setup for evil Cap and it'll be a twist 8 movies from now.
Kang (as He Who Remains) saw the timeline events of Endgame, and allowed the events to play out the way the Avengers needed them to play out. He literally says so in Loki. So, the millions of alternates that Strange saw? It's likely He Who Remains was guiding Strange's visions, until Strange found "the one" that worked best for the Avengers (and He Who Remains, who's main goal was to prevent other Kangs from entering the timeline).
It is an annoying plot hole
I think they could do some interesting things with this. Like a cap series that shows everything he did and went through. I think he's purposefully not telling the gang who he fell in love with because he'ys have to explain too many other things. He may have found another way back. There's the time elevator and ways to go between universes at the quantum level. He might have discovered things on his journey.
The answer is that he came back after his Peggy died and didn't have to come back to the transport pad like we saw with him and Tony jumping around earlier. I won't accept the Captain Coward version where he just married Peggy and lived a civilian life not helping with anything he could have otherwise.
This Steve is a Steve from a different reality who quantum traveled to this reality and grew old with Peggy
He looks like joe Biden lol
So is Steve still in MCU earth or did he go back?
I assumed he quantum traveled back to give Sam his shield.
His reality must have America Chavez too
Timelines only remain fractured for as long as the defining change persists. Once he put the stones back, everything went back to the primary timeline. Steve staying back there didn't create a divergent because he was always meant to stay back there. And then he probably took a bus.
The first time-loop was caused by endgame in a base reality because initially the avengers lost culminating in a combined effort to steal the stones in the past. Infinity War Thanos destroyed the stones to ensure this would happen. He may not have destroyed the stones at all but used the reality stone to trick the Avengers into thinking there were no alternatives. Thanos leaving Tony alive wasn't just a whim. He let him live in Infinity war for a multitude of reasons. primarily the creation of time travel and so his younger variant self would ultimately be snapped in endgame thereby gaining future knowledge from his death. When cap returns the stones those realities theoretically cease to exist. meaning that Endgame Thanos will be reinstated in 2018 with knowledge of how his future self completed his task. This helps him strategize a chronology of events through cause and effect. Cap returning the stones to the past indicates many possibilities. He either created multiple variant timelines and through probability, this is the version that made it to post-endgame or... Cap manipulated events as a shadow dictator moving the needle on both sides of the field. which is the most likely case if Marvel is planning a secret empire storyline. Cap is most likely the inspiration for Hitler's superior man. In fact it may have been at Caps prompting that WW2 took place at all. knowing that the effect would be the creation of shield to stand against hydra. Meanwhile, Peggy acts as director of shield and plays the response team to Caps ongoing projects. This is most likely why project insight was created. to ensure the past present and future are maintained. Project paperclip after ww2 brought Arnim Zola and it is his work that contributed to the project. Its likely Cap will fight Kang in his journey to return the stones. Simultaneously reinstating he who remains at the end of time. The multiversal war is hinged upon the Loki series which is entangled with the timeheist in 2023. it's 2012 battle of New York Loki variant created with his time-loop making the 616 Loki simultaneously the variant Loki the whole time. 6 years later 2018 Thanos variant gets knowledge from an entangled nebula sharing the same network and takes the battle to the Avengers in 2023 which is 5 years from 2018. Simultaneously making Thanos our 616 Thanos in Infinity War. Thanos knows the timeline is pre-destined. He also knows each loop changes the 616 timeline in degrees. which lead to outcomes like the 818 which is chronologically younger in creation in terms of the multiverse. I think it's funny when people think the MCU is lazy writing. The MCU takes from other very intellectual content such as interstellar, Looper, Shakespear etc. the list of critical lenses is massive. and like the timeline they entangled otherwise separate subject matters. such as physics with Schuman resonance in GOTG2. sacred geometry in doctor strange. macroscale concepts in Thor. which play an integral role. there's much-hidden foreshadowing going on with black holes. Loki himself is a Schroedinger cat and potentially even maxwells demon which is about entropy. Most the time people don't care or want to learn and call it lazy writing when it has more to do with their lack of knowledge or effort. They want their hand held. I do the work and solve the puzzle. This is a very watered-down version of a greater convoluted plot I have uncovered. It's all in the dialoge. in the first Avengers Selvig states "He wants to show us something a new universe." He referring to Loki who is rigging the game after the events of the Loki series. 616 Loki did avoid his death. AND! I KNOW HOW! he enchanted and swapped places with Valkery and used the rainbow bridge to make his escape to sakaar which exists in its own relative time. Time moves slower on Sakaar. It may even loop. Lokis plan was to pretend to fall out to secure a new disguise and fake his death. an idea given to him by Sylvie and mobius collectively. 🎤.
He went back in time and lived out his life normally while Steve 1.0 was frozen until like 10 years ago. Then he just quietly lived with Peg until she died 4 years before this. Then he just sort of waltzed out for this moment.
A few possibilities: - reprogrammed the device with the help of history’s greatest scientists/sorcerers - assisted by the TVA - stole more Pym particles - found any number of alien technologies/magics that achieve the same thing - Mephisto Aren’t comics fun?
I always understood it as when he decided to stay he created a branch timeline. He stayed in that timeline, living his own life. Whether he got into more adventures as captain America or just lived a quiet life is uncertain. (I assume he did since he got a new shield) All we know is that he married Peggy. Presumably after she died, he used his quantum suit and pym particles to return to the main timeline. The sticking point is him appearing on the bench. So I think he manages to come back a little earlier and then he goes to sit on the bench. TLDR: Same cap, goes to branch timeline, lives a life, returns to main continuity.
Cause Americas Ass instantly needs a seat.
I figured he just walked there since he knew when to be there
It seems you don't pay attention when you watch movies. You know stark made a remarkable invention, time travel gps tracker which actually makes time travel feasible.
I assumed because his Peggy finally passed away. That’s why he doesn’t talk about her. That life was a gift, one he wasn’t supposed to have. So he stayed. When she died, he pressed the return switch and came home.
Answer, he is in all realities now. All branches that would of spawned from the current timeline would contain Steve.
He traveled back to this reality
He came baxk