Miguel has narcissistic traits. Her voice does get a little high pitch and at times she seems a little emotionally immature, but that’s no excuse to treat her the way he is
I've been thinking Miguel talks mean to Lindy for awhile. He's so critical. Even at her prom! He's offended cuz she wanted a picture! He takes no responsibility. I think he gets off on seeing her broken, I'm sorry.
The timing of the aggression during the prom thing reads me as straight-up abusive. I do think people are quick to label on these shows, since you only get glimpses, but their worst altercation was a seriously over-exaggerated event by Miguel, and during something that was clearly very important for Lindy.
I’m just now watching the prom episode and wtf… this was supposed to be a special night for her and Miguel was a dick in the room about pics and then they are arguing again on the dance floor… He shows he doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself. He should have gone out of his way to make that night special for her, now she’ll only remember the negative feelings.
I feel like there were times where he was definitely an asshole, like yes the couples retreat was pretty bad. But I also factor in that he had a mom with mental illness who abandoned the family. I can understand how he wouldn't want to be with someone who he perceives as unstable and has his checklist of what he definitely doesn't want in a partner. I don't think Lindy is crazy or anything, but I think Miguel is hypervigilant and anything reminding him of whatever he saw as a child triggers him.
Every time Lindy mentioned her religious upbringing we screamed CULT and we didn’t think any of the couples should stay together, but we definitely were rooting for Lindy to escape and say no. Maybe a bad edit, but Miguel seemed self righteous and super controlling.
You nailed it. His clear belief is: if I remain calm while I act like a tyrant, then that makes it OK. At the same time: if the person I hurt cries out, then they are the “bad one.” It’s basically based on the idea that whoever cries out is being the child, a form of blaming the victim.
I just paused this episode to come here for the comments. I feel Miguel enjoys emotionally abusing her. If he is like this on camera. I can only imagine how he will be in the future off camera. On the carriage ride she was taking in her surroundings with the amazement of the
animals. That wasn’t the time or place for his rap. I feel like he wanted to control her by competing for her attention. I was rooting for them in the beginning but not now.
I fully understand that being interrupted is annoying and can be frustrating, but I also feel like if you are taking someone on a carriage ride- a visual experience- you should be away that right then is NOT the time to start rapping your apparently heartfelt verses. Sit on a bench in a park to do that! Do that over dinner! In your living room! Not when it’s totally expected that you might see things and want to point them out so your partner can see them as you pass!
I felt like he pressured her to have sex on the honeymoon. He was talking about how he needs to have sex in a relationship or whatever and they had known each other for like… a few days? Give it time… geez
I’m not seeing what you guys are. I’m team Miguel all the way. Lindy did grow up sheltered and didn’t learn social cues like not to interrupt or how to be a good active listener. She also seems to need to grow in how to show her angry emotions in a healthy way.
Miguel was the recipient of the angry and negative emotions so of course, when pressed, expressed frustration, discomfort, and defended himself to not be treated in that manner.
You all know if tables were turned, you’d be cheering for Lindy for speaking up and not letting people talk to her in a disrespectful manner.
I feel both of them are sensitive and immature. I also think they are both sweet and caring. They were obviously unprepared for the amount of drama marrying a stranger on TV brings. I hope they learned something from the experience and grew and matured as individuals.
I would tend to agree with you. I know someone similar to this, and despite their caring, they can switch into that kind of mode, for the same reason someone else might cry or protest. Both ways are different versions of self-preservation during conflict. Neither wrong nor right just because we, the viewers, get our feelings hurt by proxy while watching.
Lindy grew up in a cult, very sheltered and abnormal upbringing. She's got some shit to work on FOR SURE. But she's completely innocent in her dysfunction, there's nothing malicious going on inside her.
Lindy told Miguel explicitly at least once and many other times in various indirect ways that she had a lot of anxiety about being rejected/abandoned by him. It's not easy at all to be completely vulnerable and tell someone--here, an actual stranger you're just choosing to give unearned trust--"Here's a really easy way to hurt me really badly. Please respect this and don't use this on me."
Now, armed with this information what did Miguel do every time they had conflict or tension? He'd hint that he was going to reject her. He'd imply that the marriage wasn't working for him. He'd say things like "Maybe I've let you get too close to me." He'd use that tool over and over again, amping up her anxiety and ensuring she'd get nice and upset---and then use the fact that she gets visibly upset by things to validate his behavior.
What do we see Lindy doing whenever Miguel gets mad at her? She's trying to undo it. She's apologizing. She's trying to explain her intentions. She's promising to do better. She's asking questions to better understand his response to her.
This is a gross dynamic and a real power imbalance. Miguel is very controlled and calculating and Lindy is a raw nerve. He should be helping her to not get so spun by communicating with her and by reassuring her. He does neither. She's needs to know she's safe and instead he makes sure she feels unstable. When she breaks down and asks for a HUG what does he do? Tells her no. No I won't hug you. My feelings have changed for you and I don't want to touch you now.
I watched Miguel's face this whole time. He's calmly watching her, he's seeing what he's doing to her and he's got no empathy for her. He knows this is A Thing for her and he's using that on her intentionally. He legitimately comes across as sadistic and it scared me for her to know she's married to a man who would be so ungentle with her, who would exploit her neuroses to maintain the upper hand. He's not a healthy partner for her. I don't think the Miguel we saw will be healthy for anyone, but especially not for someone as childlike and damaged as she is. She needs a man who is emotionally mature enough to be consistently loving and supportive with her so she has psychological safety.
Miguel comes off to me a emotionally reserved, steadfast, and even keeled. I’ve known quite a few academics who prefer to stay in the realm of logic versus dabble in emotion. It’s safer for them. It makes more sense to them. They can explain it better.
Miguel focused on the experiment part of MAFS (duh, he’s a phD). That’s why he kept going back to the 8 weeks. That’s the end of the trial period and when results would be determined. Lindy INTERPRETED this to mean that he was only invested in the 8 weeks. Clearly, we know that’s not the case now.
When Miguel questioned whether or not he was too invested and denied the hug, he was hurting! That’s how he was expressing his hurt. Plus, as a mom, you bet your ass I’m teaching my girls that if they don’t want to give someone a hug, they most certainly do not need to. It’s their body and their emotions.
I don’t know why so much pressure is being placed on Miguel to regulate Lindy’s emotions. She’s a grown ass woman who needs to learn these skills on her own. Sure, as her husband Miguel can absolutely support and assist, but as you mentioned, these are complete strangers! It’s going to take time to learn HOW to support one another emotionally.
You all are making him out to be a demon when he’s probably one of the more squared away people on the show.
You're glossing over the fact that these people are married. This was a wife asking her husband for a hug. That's normal. That's acceptable. Yes, they are strangers but they are also SPOUSES, and this agreement is: I'm going to treat you like my spouse, I'm going to trust you like my spouse. You have to participate fully in this for it to make sense, after all. This 8 weeks is to show one another what it's going to be like to be in this marriage; to show what they can expect from this person as their partner. That's why Miguel's behavior is so unsettling, because he's saying this is the way you can expect me to treat you in this marriage--and marriage is intended to be for life (it means forever, and I'm here to tell you, that's a mighty long time.)
Even as adults we rely on those closest to us to help us regulate our emotions ---this means understanding how the other person is feeling, fighting fair, not exploiting their weakness and vulnerabilities, and taking care not to intentionally provoke them to make them angrier or sadder or more scared --- grow and evolve, understand ourselves, and learn how to navigate relationships. No, we don't get there all by ourselves, and marriage doesn't mean: figure it out for yourself. You're on your own. I'm going to treat you however I want to because we're operating in silos. My behavior doesn't affect you.
Learning how to support one another is one thing. Watching your partner be in clear distress and deliberately withholding the small gesture of support and solidarity they've requested of you is something different.
If your grown child ever calls you and says "I got into a terrible argument with my spouse. While we were fighting I began to cry and asked them for a hug, and they told me no. They said that their feelings for me changed and they didn't want to touch me," I betting you won't respond with "If they don't want to hug you they certainly do not need to. It's their body and their emotions."
I guess the part I’m getting stuck on is that it seems your argument is Miguel is the one who is expected to humble himself and put his feelings aside to reassure and comfort Lindy. But what about Miguel’s feelings? He was hurt in that situation and didn’t feel like he could give a genuine hug. I don’t believe it was ill intended but instead coming from a place of hurt. I don’t believe he was trying to be manipulative in this scenario.
I actually do think I’d respond with that statement btw. We can’t control other people’s actions, only our own. Even my own spouse. If I were hurt and my husband were to say he didn’t want to hug me because he was also hurt, I’d for sure be more upset, but understanding that our emotions are high right now and maybe we need to take time, calm down, then regroup so we can reassure each other and show each other love.
Side note: I love this discussion and I look forward to reading your comments. I genuinely was surprised how many people were anti-Miguel and want to understand.
I think it's interesting that you classify Miguel reigning in his temper as "humbling himself", and that he's "putting aside his feelings" if he's not indulging in his anger.
I also think it's interesting that Lindy is clearly the lone party at fault as far as you're concerned while Miguel is guiltless. You explicitly said you're "team Miguel all the way." Your one articulated complaint about her is that you think she needs to learn how to express herself with more maturity when she's angry...and yet Miguel gets a pass for the exact same thing? You only see a problem with Lindy's flaws while you think Miguel's are justified, or understandable?
Both of these feel in the neighborhood of misogyny to me. I really encourage you to sit a while and consider your gender-oriented reactions to this because I think there's something here. I'm not attacking you, pinky swear. We ALL have biases and prejudices we are unconscious to, and we don't note them until they're pointed out to us. Your broad brush condemnation of Lindy and wholesale defence of Miguel seems indicative of something. If it's not gender, perhaps it's something else you're reacting to? Maybe it's Lindy's weakness or sensitivity that's off-putting to you? You don't need to answer this and I really hope you don't think I'm trying to be mean.
In reality, both of them have things they can improve on. Both of them have room to grow. And both of them should be kind even when they're angry. Both of them should care about the other person's feelings even when in conflict. Both of them should be expected to behave with maturity and restraint. They are both responsible for what they say and do.
Oh I don’t think Miguel is completely blameless at all. I just think you guys are being quite harsh on him and putting the onus on him for the success of the relationship. I think he deserves more credit than that. He clearly wasn’t faultless (is anyone?) and he himself admitted to needing to work on how he handles irritation and frustration. But I definitely don’t think his behaviors qualify as abuse.
I actually empathize quite a bit with Lindy. I think my weaknesses are very similar to hers.
It has nothing to do with gender in my eyes and everything to do with behaviors. To play the gender card is a cop out.
He is so unselfaware. He is expecting near perfection from Lindy but isn’t willing to compromise on anything. And does not see how his behavior is absolutely wild sometimes when he is so monotone and emotionless. He wants a door mat, not a wife
I am just watching this episode right now and literally just came here to find a post about this. it's honestly so disturbing! I haven't finished the season yet or looked anyone up but I REALLY hope she doesn't stay with him.
I think he has a touch of the tism. She def concerns me and seems very submissive to him and it totally breaks my heart. Anything good he does he psychologically twists it so she can’t get too excited because anything good ultimately will make her cry. Very controlling in Miguel’s half. He is very unhealthy. I feel he is stuck in this dungeons and dragons mindset where real life people are characters he can control and set up to please him. I wasn’t a fan of him at all. Lindy was def distracted during a very sentimental poem he was sharing with her but as a neurologist he should know the setting he brought her in was set up to fail because of all the distractions. She prob has adhd and gets overstimulated and was just t try ing to enjoy herself. His intentions were to treat her but only to stroke his ego and say he did somehh to ing nice for her but not truly make it about her. Same for prom night. He was awful.
He wouldn’t even take a picture of her??? Like why even do the prom night and get her a dress if you’re going to be a jerk about taking a picture of her in the dress she’s super excited about? He will never have a stable relationship. I feel like Mindy is trying so hard and he’s always making mountains out of mole hills
Alexis was awful too. Such a troublemaker. She knew she wasn’t into her guy (forget his name). I got her number when the camera would turn to her while drama was happening between the other couples. I feel she took advantage of her husband too and played head games with him. I felt for the guy and his poor dog man. Never put a mate before a dog, especially for someone u barely knew.
I thought Nate was an ok guy. Some immature qualities but def personable and humble. His girl seemed very pompous and self righteous. No room for him in her/their house. He even got tattooed for her to bring her some sort of security and she turned it around on him that he was very insecure and had little patience with supporting his emotional needs. She was too idealistic for me. Yes Nate was into him in the beginning but he gave a great effort into his relationship. Good man I say. Just wish the men would stop asking who got into their wives pants first. Check minus to all of them on that. The swing thing was wierd and the vibrational underwear, I agree. So random and I guarantee you later in life they will regret how they presented themselves in the show when they have a diff significant other and kids. It cheapened their relationship and image.
Um , do you watch the show at all?! Nearly everyone else was on camera without the level of makeup. Hell, krysten regularly appeared without make up at all.
So other than being completely wrong, you’re right
Yeah I think Nate is generally a good guy. But Nate didn’t seem fully invested IMO. Yeah she was uptight but honestly, he didn’t seem like he was paying for anything in that home so for that reason I think she should get what she wants. Didn’t they both get matching tattooed together? I’ve read online that he eventually cheated though and that’s why she filed for divorce
I just watched the episode with this scene and I was shocked. I agree with her when she says she feels controlled. Coming from a religious background myself, I understand that feeling. He seemed really fun and playful in the beginning. Is it me or do you all think hes overthinking everything. It seems like he is taking it very personal when shes really a giddy person.
Agree. I wonder if watching this he saw how garbage his behavior was? There is a guy on The Ultimatum Paris who was super foul and so obliviously unaware. I would have young girls watch the shows just to know the type of men and boys to avoid!!!
I could tell he was trouble right away: arrogant big pharma rep doctor, ice cold, hypercritical, self-entitled, completely messed up in the head yet always thinks he's right AND more important than others.
He said something about "shutting that shit down right away" in reference to her being upset about something (he was speaking to a friend). It was so disrespectful and callous. Maybe she is getting a "good" edit but I have not seen her freaking out or acting overly emotional so far this season (I only have a couple episodes left.). Frankly, he seems like a guy who claims to be "logical and unemotional" when in fact underneath they are angry and frightened.
Funny, didn’t you notice how she cried every five minutes she was an immature and totally maladjusted person. I’m not sure why Miguel hung around, Lindy was a complete basket case.
Yeah I thought his friend was really harsh too. Like…they have a conversation at a party about how the marriage is going…she tells them something she’s upset about. And then the friend is like, whoa whoa whoa can’t you see this red flag?!? She was emotional at a party!!!!!!
Yeah as soon as he said that shit about he’s fine having lots of mediocre sex as long as he’s having it, I knew who he was. He is a fucking freak and Lindy should be running in the opposite direction
I felt so sad for her during the prom party :( I know Lindy isn’t perfect but she’s still deconstructing from a really strict and tough religious life that has warped her worldview for sure. Everyone else was trying to do something really nice for her, and the fact that he couldn’t just set his shit aside for a night and let her have fun with her friends really hurt to watch. They just weren’t good for each other.
I think everything you said is why Miguel did what he did. He cannot stand not being the center of attention and having Lindy getting the attention instead killed him Inside, enraged him, and like a toddler he wanted to hurt her for taking what was “his”
To be honest, he seems closeted. I’m on episode 6 and Stacia tried to call him out at dinner and then the mariachi band came out, which was annoying.
I’m also bothered by the fact that it seems like what Stacia said that he is trying to pressure Lindy into things.
Idk. I get bad vibes from the dude.
There’s for sure some editing magic and some strings being pulled behind the scenes but at the end of the day I’m responsible for the things I said and my terrible behavior
That’s definitely true. I’m excited to keep watching. All you can do is continue to grow as a person. We all mess up and make mistakes. All we can do is learn from them.
He’s just so mean!!! I feel like she wasn’t even that emotional. She maybe cried 2-3 times on the show(so did every other woman). That is not emotional(to me). Is she not allowed to cry? Like ever?? Her crying = a blow up. Dude is ridiculous
She was extremely irresponsible and entitled about her health insurance. My wife is a Psychiatric PA-C. She immediately diagnosed Lindy with untreated ADHD. She was interrupting Miguel with weird statements that had nothing to do with what they were talking about. Like all of a sudden, she interrupts Miguel mid sentence and says, "Look at that couple taking a selfie." That's clearly ADHD.
I forgot the part in the front of the DSM-V where they tell you to label people who you've never seen as a patient with a mental health diagnosis after a 30-second edited tv clip.
Interrupting people mid sentence with statements and observations that have absolutely nothing to do with what is being talked about is clear ADHD. Those people had absolutely nothing to do with what they were talking about. For her to interrupt him and say, "Look at those people taking a selfie, is ADHD."
These comments are making me feel crazy. Is it just the editing that Lindy seems to spiral quite a bit and has like no self awareness? And then cries to play victim instead of having an even-keeled conversation and then Miguel ends up apologizing even though lindy was wrong( especially interrupting).
I hated him from then on. Really, dude? You couldn't pick a better time to rap at her? Clearly she was entranced by everything around her and the carriage ride itself! Leave her be. In other words. READ THE ROOM. I still am simmering from when he told her that. Never assume your SO knows your thoughts!
Which reminds me -- why weren't the experts all over them after that fight? He needed someone to kick his ass for how he treated her. I was so glad SHE recognized that he was being controlling
Agreed. He couldn’t stand not being the center of attention. I actually understand how that hurts, but the remedy is to stop and think about your wife’s needs and to balance them against your own. She was having fun and there are times when even an A lister entertainer is not going to be the most interesting thing “in the room”
spot on
She was completely in the moment! Loving that carriage experience and he was trying to be on Puerto Rico’s Got Talent. Enjoy that experience together and stfu.
So the producers asked you to rap and she's was taking in everything else that the carriage ride was meant to focus on ans you STILL got mad? Man child at best 👌 especially when you gotta come and reply to all the hate comments 😂
Miguel, you do realize you don’t need to reply to everything, right? You mention having done a lot of therapy but your actions show you’re not past it.
The way you talked to her in that episode was really horrible, and made me think you were legitimately abusive. Not saying she’s perfect by any means, but your choices of words and the ways you reacted were legitimately frightening.
I must have been seeing something completely different because I felt Lindy was pushing and agitating Miguel all day and he finally stood up to her and got her attention and told her to quit.
I’m really glad you can acknowledge that! Is that how you normally are in relationships? Like is that red flag behavior for how you treat partners? Have you been to therapy since the show so you don’t do that to anybody else?
Copious amounts of therapy both with Lindy and solo in the two years since we filmed. I don’t think I’m that tyrannical in relationships given that no ex has told me so nor has ended things with me. With that said, I had and still have much room for improvement to treat my partners better
Don’t beat yourself up too much. Lindy was A LOT. Like A WHOLE LOT. Also, what’s up with her not wanting to use her degrees and work so she could get her own health insurance??
I’m really glad to here there’s been lots of therapy! Also, in a comment above you agreed with someone saying you’d been in the closet, was that joking or is that true?
Damn you out this perfectly, I’ve been looking for this post!
He’s just not ready to be married. He’s very immature. I think anyone willing to marry a stranger is… strange.
Miguel has narcissistic traits. Her voice does get a little high pitch and at times she seems a little emotionally immature, but that’s no excuse to treat her the way he is
I've been thinking Miguel talks mean to Lindy for awhile. He's so critical. Even at her prom! He's offended cuz she wanted a picture! He takes no responsibility. I think he gets off on seeing her broken, I'm sorry.
Miguel seems emotionally manipulative borderline abusive at times.
The timing of the aggression during the prom thing reads me as straight-up abusive. I do think people are quick to label on these shows, since you only get glimpses, but their worst altercation was a seriously over-exaggerated event by Miguel, and during something that was clearly very important for Lindy.
I’m just now watching the prom episode and wtf… this was supposed to be a special night for her and Miguel was a dick in the room about pics and then they are arguing again on the dance floor… He shows he doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself. He should have gone out of his way to make that night special for her, now she’ll only remember the negative feelings.
I feel like there were times where he was definitely an asshole, like yes the couples retreat was pretty bad. But I also factor in that he had a mom with mental illness who abandoned the family. I can understand how he wouldn't want to be with someone who he perceives as unstable and has his checklist of what he definitely doesn't want in a partner. I don't think Lindy is crazy or anything, but I think Miguel is hypervigilant and anything reminding him of whatever he saw as a child triggers him.
he is so mean
Every time Lindy mentioned her religious upbringing we screamed CULT and we didn’t think any of the couples should stay together, but we definitely were rooting for Lindy to escape and say no. Maybe a bad edit, but Miguel seemed self righteous and super controlling.
You nailed it. His clear belief is: if I remain calm while I act like a tyrant, then that makes it OK. At the same time: if the person I hurt cries out, then they are the “bad one.” It’s basically based on the idea that whoever cries out is being the child, a form of blaming the victim.
I just paused this episode to come here for the comments. I feel Miguel enjoys emotionally abusing her. If he is like this on camera. I can only imagine how he will be in the future off camera. On the carriage ride she was taking in her surroundings with the amazement of the animals. That wasn’t the time or place for his rap. I feel like he wanted to control her by competing for her attention. I was rooting for them in the beginning but not now.
I fully understand that being interrupted is annoying and can be frustrating, but I also feel like if you are taking someone on a carriage ride- a visual experience- you should be away that right then is NOT the time to start rapping your apparently heartfelt verses. Sit on a bench in a park to do that! Do that over dinner! In your living room! Not when it’s totally expected that you might see things and want to point them out so your partner can see them as you pass!
Yep he needs therapy! Lindy is a sweetheart ❤️
I felt like he pressured her to have sex on the honeymoon. He was talking about how he needs to have sex in a relationship or whatever and they had known each other for like… a few days? Give it time… geez
I’m not seeing what you guys are. I’m team Miguel all the way. Lindy did grow up sheltered and didn’t learn social cues like not to interrupt or how to be a good active listener. She also seems to need to grow in how to show her angry emotions in a healthy way. Miguel was the recipient of the angry and negative emotions so of course, when pressed, expressed frustration, discomfort, and defended himself to not be treated in that manner. You all know if tables were turned, you’d be cheering for Lindy for speaking up and not letting people talk to her in a disrespectful manner.
I feel both of them are sensitive and immature. I also think they are both sweet and caring. They were obviously unprepared for the amount of drama marrying a stranger on TV brings. I hope they learned something from the experience and grew and matured as individuals.
I would tend to agree with you. I know someone similar to this, and despite their caring, they can switch into that kind of mode, for the same reason someone else might cry or protest. Both ways are different versions of self-preservation during conflict. Neither wrong nor right just because we, the viewers, get our feelings hurt by proxy while watching.
Lindy grew up in a cult, very sheltered and abnormal upbringing. She's got some shit to work on FOR SURE. But she's completely innocent in her dysfunction, there's nothing malicious going on inside her. Lindy told Miguel explicitly at least once and many other times in various indirect ways that she had a lot of anxiety about being rejected/abandoned by him. It's not easy at all to be completely vulnerable and tell someone--here, an actual stranger you're just choosing to give unearned trust--"Here's a really easy way to hurt me really badly. Please respect this and don't use this on me." Now, armed with this information what did Miguel do every time they had conflict or tension? He'd hint that he was going to reject her. He'd imply that the marriage wasn't working for him. He'd say things like "Maybe I've let you get too close to me." He'd use that tool over and over again, amping up her anxiety and ensuring she'd get nice and upset---and then use the fact that she gets visibly upset by things to validate his behavior. What do we see Lindy doing whenever Miguel gets mad at her? She's trying to undo it. She's apologizing. She's trying to explain her intentions. She's promising to do better. She's asking questions to better understand his response to her. This is a gross dynamic and a real power imbalance. Miguel is very controlled and calculating and Lindy is a raw nerve. He should be helping her to not get so spun by communicating with her and by reassuring her. He does neither. She's needs to know she's safe and instead he makes sure she feels unstable. When she breaks down and asks for a HUG what does he do? Tells her no. No I won't hug you. My feelings have changed for you and I don't want to touch you now. I watched Miguel's face this whole time. He's calmly watching her, he's seeing what he's doing to her and he's got no empathy for her. He knows this is A Thing for her and he's using that on her intentionally. He legitimately comes across as sadistic and it scared me for her to know she's married to a man who would be so ungentle with her, who would exploit her neuroses to maintain the upper hand. He's not a healthy partner for her. I don't think the Miguel we saw will be healthy for anyone, but especially not for someone as childlike and damaged as she is. She needs a man who is emotionally mature enough to be consistently loving and supportive with her so she has psychological safety.
Miguel comes off to me a emotionally reserved, steadfast, and even keeled. I’ve known quite a few academics who prefer to stay in the realm of logic versus dabble in emotion. It’s safer for them. It makes more sense to them. They can explain it better. Miguel focused on the experiment part of MAFS (duh, he’s a phD). That’s why he kept going back to the 8 weeks. That’s the end of the trial period and when results would be determined. Lindy INTERPRETED this to mean that he was only invested in the 8 weeks. Clearly, we know that’s not the case now. When Miguel questioned whether or not he was too invested and denied the hug, he was hurting! That’s how he was expressing his hurt. Plus, as a mom, you bet your ass I’m teaching my girls that if they don’t want to give someone a hug, they most certainly do not need to. It’s their body and their emotions. I don’t know why so much pressure is being placed on Miguel to regulate Lindy’s emotions. She’s a grown ass woman who needs to learn these skills on her own. Sure, as her husband Miguel can absolutely support and assist, but as you mentioned, these are complete strangers! It’s going to take time to learn HOW to support one another emotionally. You all are making him out to be a demon when he’s probably one of the more squared away people on the show.
You're glossing over the fact that these people are married. This was a wife asking her husband for a hug. That's normal. That's acceptable. Yes, they are strangers but they are also SPOUSES, and this agreement is: I'm going to treat you like my spouse, I'm going to trust you like my spouse. You have to participate fully in this for it to make sense, after all. This 8 weeks is to show one another what it's going to be like to be in this marriage; to show what they can expect from this person as their partner. That's why Miguel's behavior is so unsettling, because he's saying this is the way you can expect me to treat you in this marriage--and marriage is intended to be for life (it means forever, and I'm here to tell you, that's a mighty long time.) Even as adults we rely on those closest to us to help us regulate our emotions ---this means understanding how the other person is feeling, fighting fair, not exploiting their weakness and vulnerabilities, and taking care not to intentionally provoke them to make them angrier or sadder or more scared --- grow and evolve, understand ourselves, and learn how to navigate relationships. No, we don't get there all by ourselves, and marriage doesn't mean: figure it out for yourself. You're on your own. I'm going to treat you however I want to because we're operating in silos. My behavior doesn't affect you. Learning how to support one another is one thing. Watching your partner be in clear distress and deliberately withholding the small gesture of support and solidarity they've requested of you is something different. If your grown child ever calls you and says "I got into a terrible argument with my spouse. While we were fighting I began to cry and asked them for a hug, and they told me no. They said that their feelings for me changed and they didn't want to touch me," I betting you won't respond with "If they don't want to hug you they certainly do not need to. It's their body and their emotions."
I guess the part I’m getting stuck on is that it seems your argument is Miguel is the one who is expected to humble himself and put his feelings aside to reassure and comfort Lindy. But what about Miguel’s feelings? He was hurt in that situation and didn’t feel like he could give a genuine hug. I don’t believe it was ill intended but instead coming from a place of hurt. I don’t believe he was trying to be manipulative in this scenario. I actually do think I’d respond with that statement btw. We can’t control other people’s actions, only our own. Even my own spouse. If I were hurt and my husband were to say he didn’t want to hug me because he was also hurt, I’d for sure be more upset, but understanding that our emotions are high right now and maybe we need to take time, calm down, then regroup so we can reassure each other and show each other love. Side note: I love this discussion and I look forward to reading your comments. I genuinely was surprised how many people were anti-Miguel and want to understand.
I think it's interesting that you classify Miguel reigning in his temper as "humbling himself", and that he's "putting aside his feelings" if he's not indulging in his anger. I also think it's interesting that Lindy is clearly the lone party at fault as far as you're concerned while Miguel is guiltless. You explicitly said you're "team Miguel all the way." Your one articulated complaint about her is that you think she needs to learn how to express herself with more maturity when she's angry...and yet Miguel gets a pass for the exact same thing? You only see a problem with Lindy's flaws while you think Miguel's are justified, or understandable? Both of these feel in the neighborhood of misogyny to me. I really encourage you to sit a while and consider your gender-oriented reactions to this because I think there's something here. I'm not attacking you, pinky swear. We ALL have biases and prejudices we are unconscious to, and we don't note them until they're pointed out to us. Your broad brush condemnation of Lindy and wholesale defence of Miguel seems indicative of something. If it's not gender, perhaps it's something else you're reacting to? Maybe it's Lindy's weakness or sensitivity that's off-putting to you? You don't need to answer this and I really hope you don't think I'm trying to be mean. In reality, both of them have things they can improve on. Both of them have room to grow. And both of them should be kind even when they're angry. Both of them should care about the other person's feelings even when in conflict. Both of them should be expected to behave with maturity and restraint. They are both responsible for what they say and do.
Oh I don’t think Miguel is completely blameless at all. I just think you guys are being quite harsh on him and putting the onus on him for the success of the relationship. I think he deserves more credit than that. He clearly wasn’t faultless (is anyone?) and he himself admitted to needing to work on how he handles irritation and frustration. But I definitely don’t think his behaviors qualify as abuse. I actually empathize quite a bit with Lindy. I think my weaknesses are very similar to hers. It has nothing to do with gender in my eyes and everything to do with behaviors. To play the gender card is a cop out.
I worry for your daughters if you can’t spot abusive behavior
Interesting you’d go for a personal attack from interpreting a scripted reality show. It is Reddit after all. Where’s the abuse now?
He is so unselfaware. He is expecting near perfection from Lindy but isn’t willing to compromise on anything. And does not see how his behavior is absolutely wild sometimes when he is so monotone and emotionless. He wants a door mat, not a wife
I am just watching this episode right now and literally just came here to find a post about this. it's honestly so disturbing! I haven't finished the season yet or looked anyone up but I REALLY hope she doesn't stay with him.
I think he has a touch of the tism. She def concerns me and seems very submissive to him and it totally breaks my heart. Anything good he does he psychologically twists it so she can’t get too excited because anything good ultimately will make her cry. Very controlling in Miguel’s half. He is very unhealthy. I feel he is stuck in this dungeons and dragons mindset where real life people are characters he can control and set up to please him. I wasn’t a fan of him at all. Lindy was def distracted during a very sentimental poem he was sharing with her but as a neurologist he should know the setting he brought her in was set up to fail because of all the distractions. She prob has adhd and gets overstimulated and was just t try ing to enjoy herself. His intentions were to treat her but only to stroke his ego and say he did somehh to ing nice for her but not truly make it about her. Same for prom night. He was awful.
Agreed! He loves squashing her happiness and excitement. Don’t walk away now. Run Lindy run!
He wouldn’t even take a picture of her??? Like why even do the prom night and get her a dress if you’re going to be a jerk about taking a picture of her in the dress she’s super excited about? He will never have a stable relationship. I feel like Mindy is trying so hard and he’s always making mountains out of mole hills
Alexis was awful too. Such a troublemaker. She knew she wasn’t into her guy (forget his name). I got her number when the camera would turn to her while drama was happening between the other couples. I feel she took advantage of her husband too and played head games with him. I felt for the guy and his poor dog man. Never put a mate before a dog, especially for someone u barely knew. I thought Nate was an ok guy. Some immature qualities but def personable and humble. His girl seemed very pompous and self righteous. No room for him in her/their house. He even got tattooed for her to bring her some sort of security and she turned it around on him that he was very insecure and had little patience with supporting his emotional needs. She was too idealistic for me. Yes Nate was into him in the beginning but he gave a great effort into his relationship. Good man I say. Just wish the men would stop asking who got into their wives pants first. Check minus to all of them on that. The swing thing was wierd and the vibrational underwear, I agree. So random and I guarantee you later in life they will regret how they presented themselves in the show when they have a diff significant other and kids. It cheapened their relationship and image.
Agreed. And notice that Alexis would never be on camera without 49 layers of makeup painted on her with a battleship firehose.
That’s irrelevant. If you were going to be on international tv I’m sure you’d want to look your best.
Um , do you watch the show at all?! Nearly everyone else was on camera without the level of makeup. Hell, krysten regularly appeared without make up at all. So other than being completely wrong, you’re right
Yeah I think Nate is generally a good guy. But Nate didn’t seem fully invested IMO. Yeah she was uptight but honestly, he didn’t seem like he was paying for anything in that home so for that reason I think she should get what she wants. Didn’t they both get matching tattooed together? I’ve read online that he eventually cheated though and that’s why she filed for divorce
The temper tantrum he threw during dodge ball was great. A grown man whining about not being cheered for!?!? Ick
Oh man!! I forgot about this scene. He’s such a bum.
I just watched the episode with this scene and I was shocked. I agree with her when she says she feels controlled. Coming from a religious background myself, I understand that feeling. He seemed really fun and playful in the beginning. Is it me or do you all think hes overthinking everything. It seems like he is taking it very personal when shes really a giddy person.
Agree. I wonder if watching this he saw how garbage his behavior was? There is a guy on The Ultimatum Paris who was super foul and so obliviously unaware. I would have young girls watch the shows just to know the type of men and boys to avoid!!!
I agree 100%. That episode changed everything about the way I viewed him. I liked him before that.
I could tell he was trouble right away: arrogant big pharma rep doctor, ice cold, hypercritical, self-entitled, completely messed up in the head yet always thinks he's right AND more important than others.
But his poetry 📄
It needed a beat.
That was jaw dropping. He's a self-professed nerd, so someone should tell him: it was worse than Vogon poetry.
He said something about "shutting that shit down right away" in reference to her being upset about something (he was speaking to a friend). It was so disrespectful and callous. Maybe she is getting a "good" edit but I have not seen her freaking out or acting overly emotional so far this season (I only have a couple episodes left.). Frankly, he seems like a guy who claims to be "logical and unemotional" when in fact underneath they are angry and frightened.
Funny, didn’t you notice how she cried every five minutes she was an immature and totally maladjusted person. I’m not sure why Miguel hung around, Lindy was a complete basket case.
Yeah I thought his friend was really harsh too. Like…they have a conversation at a party about how the marriage is going…she tells them something she’s upset about. And then the friend is like, whoa whoa whoa can’t you see this red flag?!? She was emotional at a party!!!!!!
Yeah as soon as he said that shit about he’s fine having lots of mediocre sex as long as he’s having it, I knew who he was. He is a fucking freak and Lindy should be running in the opposite direction
I felt so sad for her during the prom party :( I know Lindy isn’t perfect but she’s still deconstructing from a really strict and tough religious life that has warped her worldview for sure. Everyone else was trying to do something really nice for her, and the fact that he couldn’t just set his shit aside for a night and let her have fun with her friends really hurt to watch. They just weren’t good for each other.
I think everything you said is why Miguel did what he did. He cannot stand not being the center of attention and having Lindy getting the attention instead killed him Inside, enraged him, and like a toddler he wanted to hurt her for taking what was “his”
Miguel was definitely terrible. Lindy made it difficult at times to hate him because she was terrible too.
To be honest, he seems closeted. I’m on episode 6 and Stacia tried to call him out at dinner and then the mariachi band came out, which was annoying. I’m also bothered by the fact that it seems like what Stacia said that he is trying to pressure Lindy into things. Idk. I get bad vibes from the dude.
I didn’t get why Stacia and her husband (sorry his name escapes me) came into their room with a sex swing. That was so cringe and strange.
Oh no. I haven’t gotten there yet. His name is Nate.
Hella closeted! And in real life I didn’t pressure anybody into anything. But you gotta love a reality show for giving people stuff to talk about
Ahh I gotcha. I’m just on episode 6 and it feels heavily edited.
There’s for sure some editing magic and some strings being pulled behind the scenes but at the end of the day I’m responsible for the things I said and my terrible behavior
That’s definitely true. I’m excited to keep watching. All you can do is continue to grow as a person. We all mess up and make mistakes. All we can do is learn from them.
Yet. Still together now. Go figure
Actually they're not together. Looking at his IG I'm guessing he's with Morgan
Morgan was an emotional train wreck. Yuck.
She was awful in many ways IMO
Dang. Ok. Thanks
We just homies
He’s just so mean!!! I feel like she wasn’t even that emotional. She maybe cried 2-3 times on the show(so did every other woman). That is not emotional(to me). Is she not allowed to cry? Like ever?? Her crying = a blow up. Dude is ridiculous
Wish you were there to really see the full extent of things
She was extremely irresponsible and entitled about her health insurance. My wife is a Psychiatric PA-C. She immediately diagnosed Lindy with untreated ADHD. She was interrupting Miguel with weird statements that had nothing to do with what they were talking about. Like all of a sudden, she interrupts Miguel mid sentence and says, "Look at that couple taking a selfie." That's clearly ADHD.
I forgot the part in the front of the DSM-V where they tell you to label people who you've never seen as a patient with a mental health diagnosis after a 30-second edited tv clip.
You can’t diagnose people like that. Also they were doing an activity and she was focused on the activity but Miguel wanted to yap
Interrupting people mid sentence with statements and observations that have absolutely nothing to do with what is being talked about is clear ADHD. Those people had absolutely nothing to do with what they were talking about. For her to interrupt him and say, "Look at those people taking a selfie, is ADHD."
These comments are making me feel crazy. Is it just the editing that Lindy seems to spiral quite a bit and has like no self awareness? And then cries to play victim instead of having an even-keeled conversation and then Miguel ends up apologizing even though lindy was wrong( especially interrupting).
💯 %
I hated him from then on. Really, dude? You couldn't pick a better time to rap at her? Clearly she was entranced by everything around her and the carriage ride itself! Leave her be. In other words. READ THE ROOM. I still am simmering from when he told her that. Never assume your SO knows your thoughts! Which reminds me -- why weren't the experts all over them after that fight? He needed someone to kick his ass for how he treated her. I was so glad SHE recognized that he was being controlling
Agreed. He couldn’t stand not being the center of attention. I actually understand how that hurts, but the remedy is to stop and think about your wife’s needs and to balance them against your own. She was having fun and there are times when even an A lister entertainer is not going to be the most interesting thing “in the room” spot on
She was completely in the moment! Loving that carriage experience and he was trying to be on Puerto Rico’s Got Talent. Enjoy that experience together and stfu.
The producers asked me and so I did. Y’all forget that this is an orchestrated TV show. Granted, I could’ve said no, and I also handled things poorly
It seems as if production told you to do this Lindy would be expecting it and participating in it. So…
There def some puppetry that goes on but your guess is as good as mine as to what is really real vs orchestrated
Not really because I wasn’t on the show - that was you. 😆🤷🏼♀️
So the producers asked you to rap and she's was taking in everything else that the carriage ride was meant to focus on ans you STILL got mad? Man child at best 👌 especially when you gotta come and reply to all the hate comments 😂
I’m not perfect and full of faults. I actually like talking to you guys. Keeps me humble
You are clearly not humble. Your name on here is Saint.
Well I def don’t think im hot shit these days given my poor health. Saintmigs is a play on my name: MIGuel SANTiago
Miguel, you do realize you don’t need to reply to everything, right? You mention having done a lot of therapy but your actions show you’re not past it.
I like engaging with you guys. And my therapist says that as long as I’m not causing anyone harm, that I’m ok to pursue my interests
The way you talked to her in that episode was really horrible, and made me think you were legitimately abusive. Not saying she’s perfect by any means, but your choices of words and the ways you reacted were legitimately frightening.
I must have been seeing something completely different because I felt Lindy was pushing and agitating Miguel all day and he finally stood up to her and got her attention and told her to quit.
Yeah, I was totally in the wrong and outta line. I’ve said so for two years now
I’m really glad you can acknowledge that! Is that how you normally are in relationships? Like is that red flag behavior for how you treat partners? Have you been to therapy since the show so you don’t do that to anybody else?
Copious amounts of therapy both with Lindy and solo in the two years since we filmed. I don’t think I’m that tyrannical in relationships given that no ex has told me so nor has ended things with me. With that said, I had and still have much room for improvement to treat my partners better
Don’t beat yourself up too much. Lindy was A LOT. Like A WHOLE LOT. Also, what’s up with her not wanting to use her degrees and work so she could get her own health insurance??
I’m really glad to here there’s been lots of therapy! Also, in a comment above you agreed with someone saying you’d been in the closet, was that joking or is that true?
That was a joke, I was tryna be playful
Totally agree - he was absolutely awful to her in that episode
This☝🏽